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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,19:00   

Let us begin with Isaiah 57:20-21:


But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
which cannot rest,
whose waves cast up mire and mud.

"There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

ETA: Link to the original Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Edited by stevestory on July 18 2008,21:06

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1431
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,19:56   

Quote (stevestory @ July 17 2008,19:00)
Let us begin with Isaiah 57:20-21:


But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
which cannot rest,
whose waves cast up mire and mud.

"There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

All science so far!!!  ;)

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Benny H



Posts: 34
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:01   

Quote (stevestory @ July 17 2008,19:00)
Let us begin with Isaiah 57:20-21:


But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
which cannot rest,
whose waves cast up mire and mud.

"There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

There's no way this will go another 1000 pages. UD seems to be running on fumes now.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:02   

Huzzah!  Thank you my friends for all your many comments, witicisms and to all the UD people  for all their excessive stupidity and cluelessness, without which none of this would have been possible.

I want to buy The First Book Of Tard!  Plese produce it for us.

I bet it would outsell the Tard books it's based on too.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:04   

For those poor souls who are late to the party, a link to the original UD thread.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:26   

cheers, here's to more uncut pure tard, straight from the razor cutting blade of ATBC

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
drew91



Posts: 32
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:31   

A hearty thank you for those brave souls that are so willing to go and mine TARD for the rest of us.  You've provided me with endless hours of entertainment.

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:32   

The Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread is dead, long live the Uncommon Descent Thread 2!

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:32   

As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:33   

Quote (Benny H @ July 17 2008,21:01)
Quote (stevestory @ July 17 2008,19:00)
Let us begin with Isaiah 57:20-21:


But the wicked are like the tossing sea,
which cannot rest,
whose waves cast up mire and mud.

"There is no peace," says my God, "for the wicked."

There's no way this will go another 1000 pages. UD seems to be running on fumes now.

I sympathize with your thought. However, let us recall that UD was shuttered before the Official UD thread was started. Dembski originally shut his blog down sometime after Judge Jones's decision in Dec '05. In January '06, Dembski announced that with the help of 'friends' it would keep going. The Official UD Thread was inaugurated around that time. The whole 1,000 page business is derived from the second act of UD. While UD might seem to be running on fumes now--and I agree, it does--who knows what the future holds for that site. It is, after all...

Uncommonly Dense.

   
Nerull



Posts: 317
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:34   

All this has happened before, and will happen again...

--------------
To rebut creationism you pretty much have to be a biologist, chemist, geologist, philosopher, lawyer and historian all rolled into one. While to advocate creationism, you just have to be an idiot. -- tommorris

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:35   

Quote (afarensis @ July 17 2008,21:32)
The Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread is dead, long live the Uncommon Descent Thread 2!

Whoops. Had to fix the title.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:37   

Quote (Nerull @ July 17 2008,21:34)
All this has happened before, and will happen again...

That's funny, the other bible line I was thinking about opening with was Ecclesiastes.

Quote
9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

   
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:45   

The original thread has 29,999 comments. Aren't there supposed to be 30,000? Has Dembski's Meisterwerk all-caps guest appearance been disappeared or summat? Enquiring (read enebriated) minds want to know!

eta: rats! "no", the original post doesn't count. But that doesn't mean that Demsbki's guest appearance wasn't  disappeared anyway (unless it wasn't, sorry)Eta: Double rats. SteveStory pointed out the mistake while I was typing this)ETA Triple Drat (which is tard spelled backwards, three times) he spelled it out even more when I was typing that Ok I give up!!!!!one!!!!one

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1431
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:48   

Quote (steve_h @ July 17 2008,20:45)
The original thread has 29,999 comments. Aren't there supposed to be 30,000? Has Dembski's Meisterwerk all-caps guest appearance been disappeared or summat? Enquiring (read enebriated) minds want to know!

If 6000 is approximately equal to 4.5 billion, then.... oops, wrong thread.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:52   

Quote (steve_h @ July 17 2008,21:45)
The original thread has 29,999 comments. Aren't there supposed to be 30,000? Has Dembski's Meisterwerk all-caps guest appearance been disappeared or summat? Enquiring (read enebriated) minds want to know!

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y116926

Quote
Little known fact, 1,000 full pages is actually 29,999 comments. The original post counts as the 0th, not the 1st comment, and so the nth page contains comments (n-1)*30 through n*30-1.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,20:57   

to make it easier for the inebriated, the number of replies on the thread is the number of replies, not the number of comments, which is 1+number of replies. The 1 is the original comment, which is comment 0. So the first page shows comments 0 through 29 inclusive, which is a total of 30. The second page shows comments 30 through 59 inclusive, etc. So to cut it off at a full 1,000 pages means original post plus 29,999 replies.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,21:14   

RTH checking in in pompous 3rd person style.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,21:27   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 17 2008,21:14)
RTH checking in in pompous 3rd person style.

wow richtard you do that so well.

anyway i suspect the tard mines have several more years left in them before the company closes shop and finds some other community to exploit.  After they leave town, there will be enough tard laying around on the ground to tide yourself over during those dark frozen nights.  Never fear.  wait until we figure out how to mechanize this tard extraction shit.  Cheap Tard for every damn body!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,21:36   

The new place already seems a lot like the last place.

It's good to be home.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,21:49   

Quote (khan @ July 17 2008,20:32)
As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly.

Hey, get your own vomit, dammit.

Well as a dishonorary n00b, who only showed up around page 950 or so, and have since then consistently failed to advance this or any other AtBC thread forward in any meaningful way, I have only one thing to say...

*reaches for pick and shovel*

...fuck

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,21:56   

Tards are the cockroaches of mental life.  They will be with us forever.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
sparc



Posts: 1949
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 17 2008,23:20   

Quote
17 July 2008
How to Be an Intellectually Fulfilled Atheist — Or Not
William Dembski

Coming this October…
I always thougt  
Quote
Buy my book
was a trademark held by D'OL.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
bfish



Posts: 267
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,02:58   

Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but I'd like to see the word "Official" in the title of this new thread. Can't have a bunch of unauthorized UD threads popping up hither and yon.

And can we get a show of hands....... how many people have read damn near every word of part I of the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread? I would be one. I'm sure I haven't missed more than 20 or 30 pages - and possibly none. Rather daunting, really, in retrospect.

Anyhow, thanks to all for the many giggles and LOLs over the past two and a half years.

Cheers!

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 994
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,03:17   

Quote (bfish @ July 18 2008,02:58)
And can we get a show of hands....... how many people have read damn near every word of part I of the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread? I would be one. I'm sure I haven't missed more than 20 or 30 pages - and possibly none. Rather daunting, really, in retrospect.

*Raises hand

I don't comment frequently, but I was watching from the start.

And I also agree with earlier comments that just when you think UD can't keep up the level of tard - it does!

(Comment mostly added just to get onto the 1st page of this thread)

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,03:55   

Dembski celebrates The American Physical Society coming out against global warming!
Then we follow his link to the original article and find this at the bottom of the page:    
Quote
Update 7/17/2008:  After publication of this story, the APS responded with a  statement that its Physics and Society Forum is merely one unit within the APS, and its views do not reflect those of the Society at large.


--------------
...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,04:15   

I would like to complain that I was not permitted to post on the 1000th page of the last thread by virtue of timezone discrimination. I shall be refering you to the Directorate of Egalitarianism in Cheap Posting to Make a Big Number forthwith.

And the Department of Homeland Security.

Harrumph.

Louis

P.S. Yay us. Boo Tard. ;-)

--------------
Bye.

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,04:45   

WELCOME TO ROUND TWO OF:

If You Want Tard -



You Got It!

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,05:34   

I'd like to inaugurate the second coming of Uncommonly Dense by coining a new phrase, one that so often describes the ID crowd and their ilk:

 
Quote
argumentum ad coulter


I just googled for it and got zero hits.

--------------
...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,06:35   

Quote
William Dembski: The American Physical Society, an organization representing nearly 50,000 physicists, has reversed its stance on climate change and is now proclaiming that many of its members disbelieve in human-induced global warming.

Well, that should be easy to confirm.

Quote
American Physical Society:

APS Position Remains Unchanged

The American Physical Society reaffirms the following position on climate change, adopted by its governing body, the APS Council, on November 18, 2007:

"Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate."

Hmm.

Let's check out Dembski's original source, Michael Asher on Daily Tech. Well, that's what he says alright. But what's that in the comments?

Quote
CynthiaCyndi: On the front page of the APS website there is a statement as follows:

APS Climate Change Statement

APS Position Remains Unchanged

Did Michael Asher retract his statement. Um, no. But he does try to justify it.

Quote
MIchael Asher: It's original stance was that no significant dissent existed, and that no publication or APS officer would refer to the debate as anything but settled. Previously, APS publications rejected any paper which criticized the IPCC conclusions; now they are actively calling for such papers. That's a radical change in stance.

Darn those scientists, always asking for scientific papers.



Let me say, some "so-called" scientists have said this vein of Tard was exhausted. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers...

--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
lcd



Posts: 137
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,06:45   

Tried as I did, I wasn't the first, last or anywhere on the 1000th page.  But at least I'll be on the 1st page of the new thread.

As for UD running out, on the contrary.  I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before, that is if the Ivory Tower elite and government "yes men" to those people are really interested in science and not just perpetuating a new religious dogma from the Church of Darwin.

As for Ms. Weaver, I never knew she was or is married or that she has a kid.  I was speculating if Ghostbusters were real, I want to be Venkman.  As for having a crush on someone, I'm pretty sure I've violated no Commandment.  The idea that I secretly "coveted thy neighbor's wife", may be applicable, if I was really out to do such a thing and I did know that she was married.  Sorry, but I don't watch ET or any other of those shows.

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,06:47   

It's just unseemly for the front page of this new thread to have no comments from the tardmine. So here is zephyr, expressing the righteous indignation that we know and love.  
Quote
There is something so incredibly arrogant and self-righteous about this Altenberg meet/affair (whatever they want to call it). As if the recognition by an assorted group of scientists, academics and philosophers, that the neo-Darwinain synthesis bites off a whole lot more than it can chew, to understate the case immeasureably, means that it is now fair game to be challenged on scientific grounds, all of a sudden! (because it has the blessings, the seal of approval of the Altenberg 16 you see).

That's right. How dare those scientists and philosophers get together to discuss science and philosophy without asking KF, or BA^77, or zephyr? And why haven't there been challenges "on scientific grounds" for the past 150 years? Why haven't they published any papers testing the theory, like the UDers are doing on a daily basis?

UD has been running on fumes since it started. I suspect that it will continue to run that way for a long time.

---eta I see Zach beat me to it. That's even better!---

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
lcd



Posts: 137
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,06:48   

NO!  My chance for immortality ruined!  I'm not on the 1st page of this new thread.  I had a chance, two chances for fleeting immortality and both are gone!

Oh the shame.

How will I ever overcome it?

Coffee, yes, coffee will do it.  Ok, better now.

May it be a joyous day for all of you.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,06:53   

We need one of these!  Wired magazine reports that the McCain campaign is using software from Versionista to check Obama's official web site every hour or two to "...track and cache changes to specific web pages up to an hourly basis..."

They show two versions of Obama's web page, before and after some remarks were deleted.  This could be BIG for UD watchers!  An automated Dembski tracker!  I wish I had known about this, I could have volunteered ATBC as a beta tester.
Wired article.  Versionista web site.

--------------
...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:03   

LCD wrote, above:

Quote
Oh the shame.


That reminded me of somebody from waaaay back:   :)


  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:05   

Quote (Zachriel @ July 18 2008,06:35)



Let me say, some "so-called" scientists have said this vein of Tard was exhausted. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers...

I admit, sometimes I'll be digging deep within the mine, hoping against hope to find some tard at the bottom of some endless shaft of impenetrable kairosfocus. <cough> It's easy to give up and lie down, buried deep within the tard. Or fly up towards the fresh air and sunlight of the world. But it's down there. <cough, cough> I tell you. <gasp> Tard's there—and it will always be there. <hacking>



<coughing fit>

Congratulations on 29999.

<gurgling>

<silence>

--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:34   

Well, the APS Physics and Society rag has asked for papers debating the science, then kicked it off with ...

A piece from Lord Monckton, who to climate science is roughly equivalent to Behe to evolutionary science.

Bah.

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:39   

Card-carrying member of the APS here.  :angry:

Lord Monckton, whose opinion article appeared in the July issue of the APS Forum on Physics & Society is neither a physicist, nor an APS member, so his letter doesn't signify any change in the APS stance on the matter.  By printing his letter the APS simply shows that it isn't afraid of debating the issue on scientific terms (it is a scientific organization, not a political one).

Monckton's letter is quite revealing.  He throws in a bunch of equations to undermine the conclusions of the IPCC.  But science doesn't matter much to him.  Read his concluding remarks to see what it is all about.  
 
Quote
Even if temperature had risen above natural variability, the recent solar Grand Maximum may have been chiefly responsible. Even if the sun were not chiefly to blame for the past half-century’s warming, the IPCC has not demonstrated that, since CO2 occupies only one-ten-thousandth part more of the atmosphere that it did in 1750, it has contributed more than a small fraction of the warming. Even if carbon dioxide were chiefly responsible for the warming that ceased in 1998 and may not resume until 2015, the distinctive, projected fingerprint of anthropogenic “greenhouse-gas” warming is entirely absent from the observed record. Even if the fingerprint were present, computer models are long proven to be inherently incapable of providing projections of the future state of the climate that are sound enough for policymaking. Even if per impossibilethe models could ever become reliable, the present paper demonstrates that it is not at all likely that the world will warm as much as the IPCC imagines. Even if the world were to warm that much, the overwhelming majority of the scientific, peer-reviewed literature does not predict that catastrophe would ensue. Even if catastrophe might ensue, even the most drastic proposals to mitigate future climate change by reducing emissions of carbon dioxide would make very little difference to the climate. Even if mitigation were likely to be effective, it would do more harm than good: already millions face starvation as the dash for biofuels takes agricultural land out of essential food production: a warning that taking precautions, “just in case”, can do untold harm unless there is a sound, scientific basis for them. Finally, even if mitigation might do more good than harm, adaptation as (and if) necessary would be far more cost-effective and less likely to be harmful.

See, he starts with a full denial of the warming trend, a position abandoned even by the most hardened GW skeptics, and then presents a dozen fallback positions that leave no doubt where he is coming from.  

And in fact, he isn't even sure his equations work!
 
Quote

In short, we must get the science right, or we shall get the policy wrong. If the concluding equation in this analysis (Eqn. 30) is correct, the IPCC’s estimates of climate sensitivity must have been very much exaggerated. There may, therefore, be a good reason why, contrary to the projections of the models on which the IPCC relies, temperatures have not risen for a decade and have been falling since the phase-transition in global temperature trends that occurred in late 2001. Perhaps real-world climate sensitivity is very much below the IPCC’s estimates. Perhaps, therefore, there is no “climate crisis” at all. At present, then, in policy terms there is no case for doing anything. The correct policy approach to a non-problem is to have the courage to do nothing.

What else would one expect from Maggie Thatcher's policy advisor?

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:40   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,04:45)
As for having a crush on someone, I'm pretty sure I've violated no Commandment.

Only if it's a chaste crush.  Otherwise Jesus wags his finger at you:
Quote
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.  (Matthew 5:28, KJV)


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
drew91



Posts: 32
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:57   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,06:45)
As for UD running out, on the contrary.  I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before

That won't take much.  Any data from ID inspired "research" will be the first of its kind.

  
Assassinator



Posts: 479
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,07:57   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,06:45)

As for UD running out, on the contrary.  I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before

To bad ID isn't science hmm? Let them start by gétting scientific first, and then *gasp* produce some research and actual evidence.
   
Quote
that is if the Ivory Tower elite and government "yes men" to those people are really interested in science and not just perpetuating a new religious dogma from the Church of Darwin.

I thought Jesus didn't like lying? Couple of things:
A: Science isn't an ivory tower, scientists are eager to share there knowledge and experience to people who are nog arrogant quaks. The only thing they would like, is for people to show some effort, and ofcourse not be arrogant quaks.
B: Have you forgotten the 150 years of research and data áfter Darwin?
C: Do you actually know whý Darwin's theory is still around?
I haven't seen a lot of the UD thread, but what I've seen I enjoy, and it sure teaches me a lot.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,08:11   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,06:45)
I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before, that is if the Ivory Tower elite and government "yes men" to those people are really interested in science and not just perpetuating a new religious dogma from the Church of Darwin.

Could you put names to them please?

If you know they are doing what you are saying they are doing you must have specific examples of it being done?

Ivory Tower elite?
Government "yes men"

Anything in specific other then vague conspiracy type mumblings?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
nuytsia



Posts: 131
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,08:20   

Quote (bfish @ July 17 2008,18:58)
And can we get a show of hands....... how many people have read damn near every word of part I of the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread? I would be one. I'm sure I haven't missed more than 20 or 30 pages - and possibly none. Rather daunting, really, in retrospect.

I'm pretty sure I've read the whole damn thing as I started hanging out here just after Dover and got addicted.

It's been interesting to see how the activity on this thread has waxed and waned over time. It'd be lovely to see the posting activity plotted over time to see what events caused the most kerfuffle.
Any volunteers?  :D

I'd like to echo the comments of others and express my thanks to all those who enter the tardmines.
As to UD finishing... well as lcd kindly points out the ID revolution is really close now.
I mean really, really close.
Really, really, really close.
Any day now.
Just you wait!
Honest.


What's the time on the Dembski clock again?
Oh yes.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,09:16   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,07:45)
As for UD running out, on the contrary.  I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before...

I'm thinking one paper would be sufficient to make that happen.

Still, even as low as you've set the bar, I doubt it's a hurdle the Intelligent Design Creationism Hoax will overcome.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,09:20   

Hey, I think it's Dr. Dr. D's birthday today!

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,09:44   

Earlier on, somebody thought a Viking funeral would be a good idea.  Me too.  Here ya go, eh!!


  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,09:45   

I gots me a suggestion.  Can one of you rocket scientists make the 1000 page tard shrine a sticky so it does not sink to the bottom of this vast sea of tardology?  

That would be swell.  Something so sacred doesn't deserve to become food for bottom feeding tardologists.  

Chris

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,10:13   

Quote
Earlier on, somebody thought a Viking funeral would be a good idea

Oh, my, showing my age ... the Purple People Eaters.

One of those dudes ended up as a State Supreme Court Justice in Minnesota.  Talking about justice being swift and harsh ...

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,10:44   

Yes, indeed.  Judge Page is currently the Chief Justice of Minnesota's Supreme Court.  Good call!

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,11:31   

Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,09:20)
Hey, I think it's Dr. Dr. D's birthday today!

I had planned on getting him a New Bucket O'Tard, but the demand on Tard by the UD Denizens, in combination with this being a Presidential Election has driven the price up higer than a Casey Luskin squeek.

Maybe a Guest Pass at the World Famous Baylor Cafeteria would be better.

Please discuss YOUR ideas for This Special, Special Day!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,11:47   

Quote

10
FtK
07/18/2008
9:42 am
OT:

Hey, Bill…HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!

Have a great one…

14
William Dembski
07/18/2008
11:31 am
Thanks FtK. Nice of you to remember. –Bill

Credit where credit is due.

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Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
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(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,11:54   

I see we have another contributor from Weatherfield ;)
link

  
Ftk



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Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,11:56   

Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:40   

Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,09:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Yeah, who would 'of' thunk it.

Think Bill deserves a BIRTHDAY THREAD here? Or is that just too perverted?   :O

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1431
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:41   

For his birthday, why don't we send the Dr Dr a copy of the full, original UD thread?  You know, something to show how much we care.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:50   

Or a framed copy of that 139 page court ruling where Dembski did his very convincing coward impersonation.  I think Dr Dr would enjoy that.

Or we could make a birthday farty video...

Happy birthday Dr Dr!

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Nerull



Posts: 317
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:52   

Quote (lcd @ July 18 2008,07:45)
As for UD running out, on the contrary.  I think by the 1000th page we'll see more coming out of ID inspired research than ever before, that is if the Ivory Tower elite and government "yes men" to those people are really interested in science and not just perpetuating a new religious dogma from the Church of Darwin.

So, as many years as they've had - when do they ever plan to start doing ID inspired research?

As far as government yes-men - you realize the current government is notorious for trying to stifle science, yes?

You guys are great - I'd really never imagined people could be so clueless about the world around them until I ran into IDers. You know nothing about biology, you know nothing about physics, you know nothing about science in general.

But you are sure you know better than all the scientists!

--------------
To rebut creationism you pretty much have to be a biologist, chemist, geologist, philosopher, lawyer and historian all rolled into one. While to advocate creationism, you just have to be an idiot. -- tommorris

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:15   

moved to Dr. dr. BD Thread

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:25   

Quote (J-Dog @ July 18 2008,13:15)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 18 2008,12:40)
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,09:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Yeah, who would 'of' thunk it.

Think Bill deserves a BIRTHDAY THREAD here? Or is that just too perverted?   :O

You know, I WAS thinking about doing that... BUT, then again, it seemed so wrong...

Can we teach both sides?

Yeah, start a birthday thread and make it a real challenge.  Try to actually say something nice about him or to him.

Kind...not devisive.  Like, pick out an outfit that you think he looks nice in to make up for all the times you've poked fun of his sweater, etc., etc.

Love,

Miss Crabtree

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:41   

Quote (Texas Teach @ July 18 2008,12:41)
For his birthday, why don't we send the Dr Dr a copy of the full, original UD thread?  You know, something to show how much we care.

The director's cut, on DVD and Blu-ray, including all the posts that got bounced to the BW.

And, uh, a "Mature Content" warning label on the shrink-wrap.

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:44   

Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:25)
Yeah, start a birthday thread and make it a real challenge.  Try to actually say something nice about him or to him.

No problem, F.  I can do that.

He makes great farty noises.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:47   

Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

  
simmi



Posts: 38
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,13:58   

Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
   
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Twins? Separated at birth?

Also, I can say something nice: it's pretty impressive he has two PhDs - I know how hard it is, and I'm just trying to get one

(MDs on the other hand ... pshhh ;) )

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,14:08   

Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Whoops...sorry.

Happy birthday to you too!!!

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,14:08   

Quote (simmi @ July 18 2008,13:58)
Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
     
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Twins? Separated at birth?

Also, I can say something nice: it's pretty impressive he has two PhDs - I know how hard it is, and I'm just trying to get one

(MDs on the other hand ... pshhh ;) )

Okay, that was really nice!

:)  :)  :)

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,14:19   

Quote (simmi @ July 18 2008,13:58)
Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
     
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Twins? Separated at birth?

hmmmm.. that's possible, if he was born in L.A. I don't look much like him, tho. Very short, and female too, although fraternal would still be possible.

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,14:21   

Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,14:08)
Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Whoops...sorry.

Happy birthday to you too!!!

Thanks! I'm the ripe old age of 29-have been for 19 years now! Maybe I'll start counting backwards...

  
simmi



Posts: 38
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,14:48   

Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,15:19)
   
Quote (simmi @ July 18 2008,13:58)
   
Quote (lkeithlu @ July 18 2008,13:47)
         
Quote (Ftk @ July 18 2008,11:56)
Thanks, boys!!  Goodness knows you people are up on your birthdays!!!  And, Icky of all people points it out...who'd of thunk it.

;)  ;)

Tweren't Icky-was me, as I has the dubious honor of sharing it with him-same year, in fact.

Twins? Separated at birth?

hmmmm.. that's possible, if he was born in L.A. I don't look much like him, tho. Very short, and female too, although fraternal would still be possible.

Hmmm... if you suspect your parents are pulling a 29 year con on you regarding the circumstances of your birth, maybe you should look up the good Dr Dr... (happy birthday, by the way!)

Also Ftk, I should mention (in the spirit of full disclosure) that I think Dembski completing two PhDs is an admirable achievement but doesn't add any credence or weight to his anti-evolution arguments.

  
sparc



Posts: 1949
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,15:09   

Quote
Like, pick out an outfit that you think he looks nice in to make up for all the times you've poked fun of his sweater, etc., etc.
Maybe he should try ManU's current outfit

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1706
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,16:02   

Try to say something nice about Dr. Dr. D.???????  That is a challenge.

Let's see.  

(About half an hour....)
No, I've really got nothing.

It's tragic that he feels he has to turn his back on the Enlightenment in order to support his religious beliefs.  It's near-criminal that he can't just go off and indulge in his superstitious beliefs as a matter of private eccentricity, but has to try to drag the rest of us into a replacement Endarkenment.  It's comic / horrifying that someone who has the smarts to get two Ph.D.s can be so stupid as to engage in large-scale denial of science just because it conflicts with his superstitions.

How about this? -  He couldn't possibly be more deserving of his followers.

IDists in general these days are just too pitiful even to rise to the level of being contemptible.

  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,16:47   

Quote (N.Wells @ July 18 2008,22:02)
Try to say something nice about Dr. Dr. D.???????  That is a challenge.

Let's see.  

(About half an hour....)
No, I've really got nothing.

He does make exceedingly good cakes!

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,16:58   

Off topic, but Olegt will be glad to see this, apparently the leadership of the APS is not happy with Monckton's being given space to spew his anti-science crap in the Physics and Society online newsletter.  Methinks the editor's bottom may've been spanked red.  Regardless, they've added this (in red font to match his bottom?):

Quote
The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review. Its conclusions are in disagreement with the overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community. The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article's conclusions.


Politely said, a fair number of our 50,000 physicists are appalled by the appearance of this crap and we've been flooded with e-mails and phone calls all day asking why suddenly we've become a poster child of the anti-science denialist community...

  
ppb



Posts: 325
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,17:10   

Quote (steve_h @ July 18 2008,17:47)
Quote (N.Wells @ July 18 2008,22:02)
Try to say something nice about Dr. Dr. D.???????  That is a challenge.

Let's see.  

(About half an hour....)
No, I've really got nothing.

He does make exceedingly good cakes!

To paraphrase Mozart from the movie Amadeus, as he tries to say something nice about Salieri's opera:

One reads such logic as this, and what can one say but... Dembski!

--------------
"[A scientific theory] describes Nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And it agrees fully with experiment. So I hope you can accept Nature as She is - absurd."
- Richard P. Feynman

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,21:36   

I might add that Bill's two doctorates are from excellent schools: U. Chicago and Northwestern.  Not to mention a M. Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary, another top-notch place.  

Dembski has a good pedigree: one of his Ph. D. advisors at U. Chicago was Leo Kadanoff, a renowned theoretical physicist and applied mathematician, who has just stepped down as President of the American Physical Society (hehehe).  Here's what Kadanoff said recently of his former student's work.
Quote
Behe and Dembski start from a different presupposition.  They do, I think, believe in a Creator and then find this Creator in their studies.  Their main conclusions are not, as I see it, compelling---but they are possible.  However, in my view, as we shall understand more about complexity,  Behe’s  examples and Dembski’s arguments will become less and less convincing.

I applaud their work: Good skeptics make good science.  Behe and Dembski’s work will drive further studies of complexity. However, many of their followers want their work to replace science in the school curriculum.  I cannot applaud that.

It's a good idea to read the entire presentation.  Here it is in PDF.

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olegt



Posts: 1405
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(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,22:13   

dhogaza,

I think the editors are safe.  Monckton's letter appeared in the Forum on Physics and Society, a section of the APS that was created to deal with exactly such hot-button issues.  By putting out a bazillion disclaimers all over the place, the APS leadership is overreacting.  Consider this statement:
Quote

he Forum on Physics and Society is a place for discussion and disagreement on scientific and policy matters. Our newsletter publishes a combination of non- peer- reviewed technical articles, policy analyses, and opinion. All articles and editorials published in the newsletter solely represent the views of their authors and the Editors and do not necessarily represent the views of the Forum Executive Committee nor those of the American Physical Society.

The executive committee of the Forum on Physics and Society, however, believes that the statement in the July 2008 edition of our newsletter, Physics and Society, that "There is considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution," exaggerates the number of scientists who disagree with the IPCC conclusion on anthropogenic CO2 and global warming. That statement does not represent the views of APS or the Executive Committee of the Forum on Physics and Society. The FPS Executive Committee strongly endorses the position of the APS Council that "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate.

This is a silly semantic game.  "Considerable presence" is too vague to represent an exaggeration.  Of course GW deniers immediately jumped on this, but what else do you expect from them?  They would do it no matter how carefully the editors worded their introduction.

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dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,03:17   

Quote
Of course GW deniers immediately jumped on this, but what else do you expect from them?  They would do it no matter how carefully the editors worded their introduction.

My question is why give a pulpit to Monckton's crap in the first place?

There's nothing new in his piece, and the errors in it have been pointed out  any number of times elsewhere.  It's the equivalent of the APS online newsletter giving Dembski the opportunity to mathematically "prove" that evolution is impossible through one of his "tornado in a junkyard" probability calculations.  One can give voice to controversy without giving an additional outlet for previously disproven crockpottery.

The fact of the matter is that the editor should've known that the appearance of Monckton's piece would be jumped on as giving credibility to the denialist side, just as an appearance by Dembski would be jumped on as giving "science cred" to ID.

Climate science denialism and ID are both alike in the sense that they're political movements that have nothing to do with science itself.  Both movements exist to undermine science.  There's no reason to give their pseudoscientific arguments room in any venue that purports to be about science.

(There are, of course, unanswered questions about climate science and evolution that lead to legitimate skepticism about certain details of the science, otherwise there'd be no work to do, I'm not talking about that.)

And that's the irony about the APS physics and society lead editorial.  In it, the editor says, "stick to the science, please!" but the last lengthy paragraph of Monckton's piece isn't about science at all, but policy.

"even if I'm wrong, even if ... even if ... even if ... we should do nothing".

Letting a largely political piece go through along with an editorial comment that responses should stick to the science and not discuss implications is just ... wrong.

I don't think the APS is overreacting at all, BTW.  The publication of this piece is going to be trotted out endlessly in venues ranging from Congressional hearings to influential press outlets like the Wall Street Journal.  And the story will be "if there's a scientific consensus, why did the APS state that a large number of scientists disagree, and then publish a scientific rebuttal to the IPCC AR4?".

You are going to be reading that for years.  And unlike the ID movement, the climate science denialism movement has been extremely effective in meeting their goal - primarily blocking meaningful action by the United States.

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,07:38   

I would reserve my judgement until responses to Mockton's letter are printed in the next issue of the newsletter.  That should be interesting.  It won't make the conservative press, though.

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dhogaza



Posts: 525
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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,08:23   

Quote
 It won't make the conservative press, though.

Exactly, and that's what Monckton counts on.

  
Quack



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,08:38   

Quote
Dembski has a good pedigree: one of his Ph. D. advisors at U. Chicago was Leo Kadanoff, a renowned theoretical physicist and applied mathematician, …


Likewise,  
Quote
Wikipedia:
Kurt Patrick Wise is an American young earth creationist with a degree in paleontology from Harvard University where he studied under the supervision of Stephen Jay Gould
.

What use are good schools, when (see my sig.):

--------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.
                                                                                               Richard Feynman

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,09:00   

Quote (olegt @ July 18 2008,21:36)
I might add that Bill's two doctorates are from excellent schools: U. Chicago and Northwestern.  Not to mention a M. Div. from Princeton Theological Seminary, another top-notch place.  

Dembski has a good pedigree: one of his Ph. D. advisors at U. Chicago was Leo Kadanoff, a renowned theoretical physicist and applied mathematician, who has just stepped down as President of the American Physical Society (hehehe).  Here's what Kadanoff said recently of his former student's work.
 
Quote
Behe and Dembski start from a different presupposition.  They do, I think, believe in a Creator and then find this Creator in their studies.  Their main conclusions are not, as I see it, compelling---but they are possible.  However, in my view, as we shall understand more about complexity,  Behe’s  examples and Dembski’s arguments will become less and less convincing.

I applaud their work: Good skeptics make good science.  Behe and Dembski’s work will drive further studies of complexity. However, many of their followers want their work to replace science in the school curriculum.  I cannot applaud that.

It's a good idea to read the entire presentation.  Here it is in PDF.

No, No, NO!  Dr. Dr. got NO degree from Northwestern.  He was a post-doc in maths at NU - before they figured out that something about the young Doc just didn't add up.  Northwestern is WAY too cool for Dr. Dr.

He has PhD from U of Chicago in Mathematics, and MA and PhD in Phililosophy from UIC (University of Illinois Chicago).

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,10:19   

Quote (dhogaza @ July 19 2008,08:23)
Quote
 It won't make the conservative press, though.

Exactly, and that's what Monckton counts on.

And he's already milking it.

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bfish



Posts: 267
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,11:42   

Quote (J-Dog @ July 19 2008,07:00)
No, No, NO!  Dr. Dr. got NO degree from Northwestern.  He was a post-doc in maths at NU - before they figured out that something about the young Doc just didn't add up.  Northwestern is WAY too cool for Dr. Dr.

Didn't he teach a freshman seminar or something there?

When I attended NU, the football team was really, really bad. But getting better! When Michigan, or Purdue, or really anybody, was pounding us 50-0 or some such, the crowd would cheer:

That's all right.
That's OK.
You will work for us someday!

But I always thought I heard one thin voice yelling, "I'll blog on ID some day." Odd.

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,13:25   

Quote (J-Dog @ July 19 2008,09:00)
No, No, NO!  Dr. Dr. got NO degree from Northwestern.  He was a post-doc in maths at NU - before they figured out that something about the young Doc just didn't add up.  Northwestern is WAY too cool for Dr. Dr.

He has PhD from U of Chicago in Mathematics, and MA and PhD in Phililosophy from UIC (University of Illinois Chicago).

Actually, we're both off a bit.  According to Dembski's CV (available in PDF here), he worked as a math postdoc at MIT, U. Chicago and Princeton and then went on to study philosophy and theology at UIC and Princeton, respectively.  He did a philosophy postdoc at Northwestern.

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Aardvark



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,13:53   

Dembski links to something Anthony Flew supposedly wrote.

There's some fluff about Flew, then it starts out:

 
Quote
Professor Antony Flew writes:


But it gets a bit strange:

 
Quote
What is important about this passage is not what Dawkins is saying about Flew...


Then there's this at the end:

 
Quote
Note on Lord Gifford (Adam)
The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography describes Lord Gifford as ‘judge and benefactor’. He endowed lectureships at four Scottish universities ‘for promoting, advancing and diffusing natural theology, in the widest sense of that term, in other words the knowledge of God’ and ‘of the foundation of ethics.’


Am I just imagining the puppet strings?


???

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,13:59   

Olegt points out ...
Quote
And he's already milking it.

Yeah, and more ...
Quote
The
commissioning editor referred it to his colleague, who subjected it to a
thorough and competent scientific review.

See how he's building a case for it being "peer reviewed", as a counter to the APS pointing out that the Physics and Society Newsletter is not a journal, and not peer reviewed.

Damage control on this one's going to be ongoing and difficult.  Every time the climate science community talks about the scientific consensus, Monckton's "invited, peer reviewed paper" is going to be trotted out.

The man's a politician, complaints about his competency don't lie in that realm ...

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,14:44   

BarryA responds to the question "What would happen to your faith if you found out that Jesus had died and not risen?"  His answer's bottom line:
 
Quote
It is a little difficult to discuss this issue, because it is like discussing the question “what would you do if you found out green is really red?” Well, green isn’t red and it is impossible for it to be red. Similarly, Christ has risen, and it is impossible for me to believe he has not.

Barry has chosen a bad counterexample.  About 6% of men and some women have the red-green colorblindness.  
 
Quote


The Creamer Color Chart is an easy to use test to screen for red-green colorblindness. Two easily recognized symbols are presented to the child. Difficulty recognizing  the red star indicates the need for further testing. The orange circle is seen by all.
http://www.colorblindtest.com/

Yes, Barry, sometimes green is red.

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GCT



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,15:11   

Quote (bfish @ July 18 2008,03:58)
Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but I'd like to see the word "Official" in the title of this new thread. Can't have a bunch of unauthorized UD threads popping up hither and yon.

And can we get a show of hands....... how many people have read damn near every word of part I of the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread? I would be one. I'm sure I haven't missed more than 20 or 30 pages - and possibly none. Rather daunting, really, in retrospect.

Anyhow, thanks to all for the many giggles and LOLs over the past two and a half years.

Cheers!

*Raises hand*

All 1000 pages...when I think about all the tard I've ingested, I'm surprised I can write complete sentence

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,17:34   

Quote (olegt @ July 19 2008,13:25)
Quote (J-Dog @ July 19 2008,09:00)
No, No, NO!  Dr. Dr. got NO degree from Northwestern.  He was a post-doc in maths at NU - before they figured out that something about the young Doc just didn't add up.  Northwestern is WAY too cool for Dr. Dr.

He has PhD from U of Chicago in Mathematics, and MA and PhD in Phililosophy from UIC (University of Illinois Chicago).

Actually, we're both off a bit.  According to Dembski's CV (available in PDF here), he worked as a math postdoc at MIT, U. Chicago and Princeton and then went on to study philosophy and theology at UIC and Princeton, respectively.  He did a philosophy postdoc at Northwestern.

Damn You Wikipedia*! Damn you all to hell!



* My source of course.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
J-Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,17:38   

Quote (GCT @ July 19 2008,15:11)
Quote (bfish @ July 18 2008,03:58)
Maybe I'm just a traditionalist, but I'd like to see the word "Official" in the title of this new thread. Can't have a bunch of unauthorized UD threads popping up hither and yon.

And can we get a show of hands....... how many people have read damn near every word of part I of the Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread? I would be one. I'm sure I haven't missed more than 20 or 30 pages - and possibly none. Rather daunting, really, in retrospect.

Anyhow, thanks to all for the many giggles and LOLs over the past two and a half years.

Cheers!

*Raises hand*

All 1000 pages...when I think about all the tard I've ingested, I'm surprised I can write complete sentence

Me too...

And I started re-reading it from the beginning too* - and wondering if I could print the whole thing...



*No!  I am NOT "addicted".  I can stop anytime I want to.
Really.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
philbert



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,18:03   

In linking to the "Anthony Flew" piece on The God Delusion, O'Leary writes:

 
Quote
Antony Flew, formerly the most prominent atheist in the English speaking world, goes after Dawkins, his successor as head atheist


"Head atheist"? This trope has always amused me, and you do see it a lot. It seems that some Christians, especially the Popeish ones, simply cannot got their heads around the idea that we atheists might not roll in the authoritarian way that they do.

  
philbert



Posts: 20
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,18:05   

Oops. Dembski did that, not O'Leary. So not a Popeish move, this time round. But still a common one. And always funny.

And here's me without an edit button.

  
Assassinator



Posts: 479
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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,18:16   

Little reminder here, it got snowed under (someone else brought it up, too lazy to look it up at this hour), but I would like to say that the original UD thread is worth being stickied. Too much history and gems are in there to let it sink down into the sewers of this site under all the other stuff.

  
philbert



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,18:34   

The page with that God Delusion review also mentions the suggestions that surfaced a while back, that there might've been anything fishy going on behind the writing of There is a God, the book which had Anthony Flew's name in the author's spot.

It's instructive to compare bethinking.org's breezy dismissal of such things with Richard Carrier's detailed report here.

I'm a philosophy graduate, and I'll admit to having a particular bee in my bonnet about whole Anthony Flew saga. It's just depressing.

  
silverspoon



Posts: 123
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,19:22   

By sexing up UD, Dembski has found a new avenue for relieving tension. The vise strategy just wasn’t enough I suppose.
[/IMG]

--------------
Grand Poobah of the nuclear mafia

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 365
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,19:48   

I posted the following over at UD, on the Olivia Judson thread, and it was immediately deleted.

Quote
Dembski writes,

Quote
Could we please dispense with any patronizing nonsense about Darwin being less than the messiah of a materialistic religion that pretends to find its justification in science.


This is a bizarre position, in my opinion - more overblown rhetoric trying to dichotomize us into warring camps.  Darwin is not a messiah, and there is nothing religious about his role and place in the history of science. And, as has been pointed out countless times (consider the Clergy Project for one source), millions of people who are not materialists accept evolutionary theory.  Even if we accept "Darwinism" to mean modern evolutionary theory, the fact that, more or less, all materialists are "Darwinists" does not mean that all "Darwinists" are materialists.  This is simple logic.

And of course, even for the materialists, it is silly to say that Darwin is a "messiah" of a religion.


I would have been happy to defend my post, and my choice of language (bizarre and silly) was surely no worse than Dembski's ("patronizing nonsense" and "pretending to be science").

What is Dembski afraid of? - a little dialog about the controversy?

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,21:29   


Never mind, Jack.  Bill is cranky tonight.  He is so pissed at Olivia Judson that he changed the original caption to the photo ("Olivia Judson, as Dr Tatiana, dispenses sex advice") to "Olivia Judson busy at her research."  

Whatsamatta, Bill?  Didn't get a new sweater for birfday?

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Dr.GH



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,22:09   

Quote (silverspoon @ July 19 2008,17:22)

For those who were wondering, "Where do I find my wonderful wife?"

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,22:53   

WAD comments upon Stephen Jay Gould and "Darwinism":
       
Quote
Coyne, of course, is here merely echoing Richard Dawkins and Daniel Dennett. But if Judson remains unconvinced by Coyne, she might want to summon up the departed spirit of Stephen Jay Gould. In his STRUCTURE OF EVOLUTIONARY THEORY, Gould admitted that anything Dawkins really cares about regarding biological structures–their origin, function, complexity, adaptive significance–is the product of natural selection [see ch. 3 of THE DESIGN OF LIFE]. Gould was as much a Darwinist as Dawkins.

Gould's book also throws the fatuousness of WAD's post into sharp relief - which he would know, had he actually read it.

Gould argued throughout The Structure of Evolutionary Theory that, while retaining its essential Darwinian core, evolutionary theory has markedly advanced since Darwin, resulting in significant revisions of our view of the causal agency, creative potency and scope of Darwin's mechanism. Throughout the entire 1,400 pages of SOET Gould both argued for the importance and the retention Darwin's essential insights (hence his acknowledgement of the creative role of natural selection among individual organisms in building complex adaptations, as WAD notes above) and argued that considerable new theoretical superstructure has been built upon them, augmenting the essential Darwinian core with several more contemporary insights. These include the role of historical and developmental constraints, the role of contingency, evo-devo, the reality of levels of selection, and so forth -  levels of explanation that account for facts regarding the large scale patterning of the history of life on earth that selection alone cannot. And, of course, these were central interests of Gould's that distinguished him from Dawkins and Dennett and indeed engendered friction with them.

The cover illustration of SOET (a painting of the branching structure of a fossil coral) depicts this sense of both retaining an essential Darwinian core while both pruning and grafting the theory in several directions. Gould both embraced Darwin and rebuilt his vision of evolutionary theory to include factors that go far beyond Darwin - as well one would expect of a a living science. This is exactly what Judson stated:
     
Quote
[Darwinism] suggests that Darwin was the beginning and the end, the alpha and omega, of evolutionary biology, and that the subject hasn’t changed much in the 149 years since the publication of the “Origin.” He wasn’t, and it has. Although several of his ideas — natural and sexual selection among them — remain cornerstones of modern evolutionary biology…

She's right. Darwin is properly revered because his core insights remain at the center of evolutionary theory, yet evolutionary theory has gone far beyond Darwin. And that was the essence of Gould's book. Count on WAD to get it wrong. Such are the hazards of motivated reading.

[edits for clarity]

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
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JAM



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(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,23:55   

Quote (olegt @ July 19 2008,14:44)
BarryA responds to the question "What would happen to your faith if you found out that Jesus had died and not risen?"  His answer's bottom line:
 
Quote
It is a little difficult to discuss this issue, because it is like discussing the question “what would you do if you found out green is really red?” Well, green isn’t red and it is impossible for it to be red. Similarly, Christ has risen, and it is impossible for me to believe he has not.

Barry has chosen a bad counterexample.  About 6% of men and some women have the red-green colorblindness.  
 
Quote


The Creamer Color Chart is an easy to use test to screen for red-green colorblindness. Two easily recognized symbols are presented to the child. Difficulty recognizing  the red star indicates the need for further testing. The orange circle is seen by all.
http://www.colorblindtest.com/

Yes, Barry, sometimes green is red.

Has anyone tried colorblindness as an example of profoundly unintelligent design in an educational setting?

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,01:03   

Quote (olegt @ July 19 2008,15:44)
BarryA responds to the question "What would happen to your faith if you found out that Jesus had died and not risen?"  His answer's bottom line:
 
Quote
It is a little difficult to discuss this issue, because it is like discussing the question “what would you do if you found out green is really red?” Well, green isn’t red and it is impossible for it to be red. Similarly, Christ has risen, and it is impossible for me to believe he has not.

Barry has chosen a bad counterexample.  About 6% of men and some women have the red-green colorblindness.  
 
Quote


The Creamer Color Chart is an easy to use test to screen for red-green colorblindness. Two easily recognized symbols are presented to the child. Difficulty recognizing  the red star indicates the need for further testing. The orange circle is seen by all.
http://www.colorblindtest.com/

Yes, Barry, sometimes green is red.

Link!

   
Texas Teach



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,01:49   

Quote (JAM @ July 19 2008,23:55)
Has anyone tried colorblindness as an example of profoundly unintelligent design in an educational setting?

I think Walt Brown explained it as having something to do with the Flood.  ;)

--------------
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jeffox



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,01:58   

I may be way out in left field about this, but there may be a good evolutionary explanation for red-green color blindness in humans.  My thinking is that it may be a visual variance that allows for other, more acute, vision in one's field of view.  I write this because, just the other day, a Viet Nam vet and I were talking, and he told me that when he was "in country" his unit used to select snipers with red-green color blindness because of their enhanced ability to spot enemy snipers in the thick, green foliage native to SE Asia.

Anyway, maybe off-topic, too; but my 2c.

  
olegt



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,01:59   

Linky!

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sparc



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,02:02   

D'OL
Quote
I am a machine. No, I am a tree. Here’s the problem with analogy …
Isn't analogy with machines one of the central arguments put forward by Dembski, Behe et al.?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,02:15   

Last OT post on this, but this appears to explain the APS's strong reaction to Monckton's piece, and I thought Olegt might find it interesting:

Quote
...an organization that Monckton served as "chief policy advisor" for issued a press release (http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/press/provednoclimate_crisis.html) whose first sentence says: "Mathematical proof that there is no 'climate crisis' appears today in a major, peer-reviewed paper in Physics and Society, a learned journal of the 10,000-strong American Physical Society, SPPI reports"

That "mathematical proof" bit fits right into creationist claims regarding evolutionary biology ... denialists of all stripes seem to share a common playbook.

Anyway, three lies in one sentence, not bad, two of which probably pissed off the APS:

1. He provided no such "mathematical proof"
2. It's not "peer-reviewed"
3. It's not a "learned journal", it's a newsletter

I don't think the APS overreacted a bit in aggressively distancing themselves from this glorified opinion piece ...

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,02:51   

Quote (jeffox @ July 19 2008,23:58)
I write this because, just the other day, a Viet Nam vet and I were talking, and he told me that when he was "in country" his unit used to select snipers with red-green color blindness because of their enhanced ability to spot enemy snipers in the thick, green foliage native to SE Asia.

Along the same lines, I've read that during WWII, the Army Air Corps selected color-blind crewmen as bombardiers because they were less likely to be fooled by camouflaged targets.

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Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,07:06   

Quote (sparc @ July 20 2008,03:02)
D'OL      
Quote
I am a machine. No, I am a tree. Here’s the problem with analogy …
Isn't analogy with machines one of the central arguments put forward by Dembski, Behe et al.?

In Granny's case, the machine analogy may be perfectly appropriate.

   
Quote (matar_hm @ Jul 18, 10:01 AM)
canada passport office cassie ft. dons me movie summary of john q vfnfiberglass turfgrass producers

   
Quote (feechka-kf @ Jul 19, 3:53 AM)
1997 peter fonda movie cassandra seland 2004 jamaican olympics the governorship of harold stassen pa


Those are spambot comments from UDoJ's filter.  How are O'Dreary's writings any different than that, really?  They too just mindlessly string together words from a list that's fed to them.

Samey same.

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Bob O'H



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,07:39   

Dear me.  I go off for two weeks for some serious de-tarding and look what you've done.  I felt quite lost when I returned.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
CeilingCat



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,07:42   

Quote (Aardvark @ July 19 2008,13:53)
Dembski links to something Anthony Flew supposedly wrote.

There's some fluff about Flew, then it starts out:

       
Quote
Professor Antony Flew writes:


But it gets a bit strange:

       
Quote
What is important about this passage is not what Dawkins is saying about Flew...

Then there's this at the end:

       
Quote
Note on Lord Gifford (Adam)
The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography describes Lord Gifford as ‘judge and benefactor’. He endowed lectureships at four Scottish universities ‘for promoting, advancing and diffusing natural theology, in the widest sense of that term, in other words the knowledge of God’ and ‘of the foundation of ethics.’


Am I just imagining the puppet strings?


???

More strangeness:    
Quote
Thus we find in his index five references to Einstein. They are to the mask of Einstein and Einstein on morality; on a personal God; on the purpose of life (the human situation and on how man is here for the sake of other men and above all for those on whose well-being our own happiness depends); and finally on Einstein’s religious views. But (I find it hard to write with restraint about this obscurantist refusal on the part of Dawkins) he makes no mention of Einstein’s most relevant report: namely, that the integrated complexity of the world of physics has led him to believe that there must be a Divine Intelligence behind it.
I've seen a lot of quotes from Einstein on God and religion, but never one like that.  Can anybody provide a link for a quote that supports this view?

Here are a few quotes from Einstein on God:  
Quote
“It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.”

Albert Einstein, in a letter March 24, 1954; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 43.

“The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naďve.”

Albert Einstein in a letter to Beatrice Frohlich, December 17, 1952; Einstein Archive 59-797; from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 217.

“It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I feel also not able to imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. My views are near those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly. I believe that we have to content ourselves with our imperfect knowledge and understanding and treat values and moral obligations as a purely human problem—the most important of all human problems.”

Albert Einstein, 1947; from Banesh Hoffmann, Albert Einstein Creator and Rebel, New York: New American Library, 1972, p. 95.

“I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.”

Albert Einstein, upon being asked if he believed in God by Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the Institutional Synagogue, New York, April 24, 1921, published in the New York Times, April 25, 1929; from Einstein: The Life and Times, Ronald W. Clark, New York: World Publishing Co., 1971, p. 413; also cited as a telegram to a Jewish newspaper, 1929, Einstein Archive 33-272, from Alice Calaprice, ed., The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 2000, p. 204.

“I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own — a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.”

Albert Einstein, quoted in The New York Times obituary, April 19, 1955; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Thoughts, New York: Ballantine Books, 1996, p. 134. )

“I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.”

Albert Einstein, replying to a letter in 1954 or 1955; from Albert Einstein the Human Side, Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, eds., Princeton, New Jersey: Princeton University Press, 1981, p. 39.


Many more on a similar vein are available at that site.  From what I've read, Einstein's "God" was the universe and its laws, with no hint of a conscious Being involved at any point.  I don't know what's going on in Flew's head, but I don't think he's firing on all of his cylinders any more.

"Am I just imagining the puppet strings?"
I don't think so.

--------------
...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
Reciprocating Bill



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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,07:58   

Quote (olegt @ July 20 2008,02:59)
Linky!

 
Quote
I believe the God the practitioners of these other religions believe in is the God revealed in the Bible, the “specific revelation” of the Christian faith. Because I believe the Bible, I have placed all of my hope in Christ and Christ alone, and if I were presented with irrefutable proof the resurrection did not occur, my faith would be crushed and I would despair. After reflecting on the matter, I would despair not because the materialists are right, but because I would know my faith has been in vain.

It is a little difficult to discuss this issue, because it is like discussing the question “what would you do if you found out green is really red?” Well, green isn’t red and it is impossible for it to be red. Similarly, Christ has risen, and it is impossible for me to believe he has not.

Forgot so soon, Barry?

You could be a brain in a beaker. Stuck in the matrix. Or a Boltzman brain. And everything you believe an illusion.

If you want that argument to have any force against "materialists," you've got to accept it for yourself. Unless what you are saying is that you know that this concern was bullshit from the start, and fails to put the "faith of materialism" on equal footing with your own.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,08:06   

More Flew weirdness, from the same article:      
Quote
In that monster footnote to what I am inclined to describe as a monster book – The God Delusion – Dawkins reproaches me for what he calls my ignominious decision to accept, in 2006, the Phillip E. Johnson Award for Liberty and Truth. The awarding Institution is Biola, The Bible Institute of Los Angeles. Dawkins does not say outright that his objection to my decision is that Biola is a specifically Christian institution. He obviously assumes (but refrains from actually saying) that this is incompatible with producing first class academic work in every department – not a thesis which would be acceptable in either my own university or Oxford or in Harvard.
This is sad for a philosopher.  Biola isn't Oxford, Harvard or whatever University Flew is currently affiliated with.  If you publish a book refuting Christianity, it would scarcely cause a ripple at any of those universities.  At Biola - watch out, something is going to hit the fan!  Dawkin's real assumption is that Biola never has and never will produce anything first class in philosophy or theology, which is the conservative position.
   
Quote
Finally, as to the suggestion that I have been used by Biola University. If the way I was welcomed by the students and the members of faculty whom I met on my short stay in Biola amounted to being used then I can only express my regret that at the age of 85 I cannot reasonably hope for another visit to this institution.
Another non-sequiter.  Yes, Professor Flew, I'm sure they treated you royally at Biola.  You're a great prize for them.  A person with an actual intellectual reputation saying something that they agree with is a great rarity indeed, scarcer than hen's teeth and definitely something to be gloated over.  I'm sure they pampered you to the max - while using you in your old age.

One other oddity: At the top of the page there's a small box with a picture of Flew and this text in it:  
Quote
Antony Flew was a lecturer at the Universities of Oxford and Aberdeen, before posts as Professor of Philosophy at the Universities of Keele and of Reading. He has now retired. He is renowned for his 1950 essay "Theology and Falsification" and his atheistic work, before announcing in 2004 his belief in a Creator God. View all resources by Antony Flew
If you click on the link, it only produces the article it's at the top of.

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...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,08:15   

GilDodgen is having a conniption fit over there.      
Quote

The Coyne quote is a gold mine of speculation presented as fact, and the invocation of consensus, which is only resorted to when a theory is in trouble with the evidence.
     
Quote
…natural selection, which builds complex bodies…

Natural selection does not "build" anything…
     
Quote
…by saving the most adaptive mutations…

…it just throws stuff out.

Is he being deliberately obtuse, or accidentally obtuse?
 
Quote
There is absolutely no evidence that random mutation and natural selection "build complex bodies."

Hey Gil babe, from that special place in your heart, could I recommend a full length mirror on the back of your bedroom door?  What you'll find in that might be considered "a complex body".
 
Quote
This unending, evidentially unfounded, logically absurd, mathematically ridiculous speculation presented as established scientific fact really annoys me, especially because so many people buy it without even thinking about it.

Yeah, them damned biologists, always spending all those years in the lab and in the field, never thinkin' 'bout nuthin'.  They should spend more time reading UD and DI press releases.
 
Quote
There is a very good reason why so many mathematicians, computer programmers, and engineers are skeptical of Coyne's claims. Coyne lives in the ever-changing ether of speculation based on a pre-assigned assumption. Mathematicians, computer programmers, and engineers must figure out how stuff really works, and demonstrate that they know what they are talking about with hard evidence and results.

Hmm.. what about the biologists though, Gil?  Have you asked them what they think on the matter?  I'm thinking their take might be important in this context.  And how 'bout some of that hard evidence and results?  Could you post a link to some of that?  I'd appreciate it.
 
Quote
Once I applied my hard-science, mathematical, engineering background to "evolutionary theory," I slapped myself in the forehead

Gil, I have to tell you.  You're turning me on here.  That's kind of got this porn undercurrent to it...
 
Quote
and asked: Are these guys nuts, just out of contact with reality, or insufficiently educated in basic logic, mathematics, and the method of logical inference to the best explanation based on what is known?

Funny that.  That question, in reference to biology, is often asked and debated about you guys.  Why do you keep leaving biology and biologists out of a discussion about... y'know.. biology?
 
Quote
The answer is that they are philosophically committed to a universe without design or purpose, and that explains their unwillingness to think logically or consider the evidence impartially.

Geez, really Gil?  C'mon.  We've been over the theistic scientist / clergy letter project thing a bajillion times.  Please pay attention.

... or quit lying, whichever is the case here.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
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(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,08:18   

Okay, one more on Flew and Biola:  Professor Flew, Biola may have lionized you on your visit, but unless you agree one hundred percent with the following Doctrinal Statement, you will never get a job there:  
Quote
The Bible, consisting of all the books of the Old and New Testaments, is the Word of God, a supernaturally given revelation from God Himself, concerning Himself, His being, nature, character, will and purposes; and concerning man, his nature, need and duty and destiny. The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are without error or misstatement in their moral and spiritual teaching and record of historical facts. They are without error or defect of any kind.

There is one God, eternally existing and manifesting Himself to us in three Persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Our Lord Jesus was supernaturally conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin Mary, a lineal descendant of David. He lived and taught and wrought mighty works and wonders and signs exactly as is recorded in the four Gospels. He was put to death by crucifixion under Pontius Pilate. God raised from the dead the body that had been nailed to the cross. The Lord Jesus after His crucifixion showed Himself to be alive to His disciples, appearing unto them by the space of 40 days. After this, the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven, and the Father caused Him to sit at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come, and put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him to be Head over all things to the Church.

The Lord Jesus, before His incarnation, existed in the form of God and of His own choice laid aside His divine glory and took upon Himself the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. In His pre-existent state, He was with God and was God. He is a divine person possessed of all the attributes of Deity, and should be worshiped as God by angels and man. "In Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." All the words that He spoke during His earthly life were the words of God. There is absolutely no error of any kind in them, and by the words of Jesus Christ the words of all other teachers must be tested.

The Lord Jesus became in every respect a real man, possessed of all the essential characteristics of human nature.

By His death on the cross, the Lord Jesus made a perfect atonement for sin, by which the wrath of God against sinners is appeased and a ground furnished upon which God can deal in mercy with sinners. He redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse in our place. He who Himself was absolutely without sin was made to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. The Lord Jesus is coming again to his earth, personally, bodily, and visibly. The return of our Lord is the blessed hope of the believer, and in it God's purposes of grace toward mankind will find their consummation.

The Holy Spirit is a person, and is possessed of all the distinctively divine attributes. He is God.

Man was created in the image of God, after His likeness, but the whole human race fell in the fall of the first Adam. All men, until they accept the Lord Jesus as their personal Savior, are lost, darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, hardened in heart, morally and spiritually dead through their trespasses and sins. They cannot see, nor enter the Kingdom of God until they are born again of the Holy Spirit.

Men are justified on the simple and single ground of the shed blood of Christ and upon the simple and single condition of faith in Him who shed the blood, and are born again by the quickening, renewing, cleansing work of the Holy Spirit, through the instrumentality of the Word of God.

All those who receive Jesus Christ as their Savior and their Lord, and who confess Him as such before their fellow men, become children of God and receive eternal life. They become heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. At death their spirits depart to be with Christ in conscious blessedness, and at the Second Coming of Christ their bodies shall be raised and transformed into the likeness of the body of His glory.

All those who persistently reject Jesus Christ in the present life shall be raised from the dead and throughout eternity exist in the state of conscious, unutterable, endless torment of anguish.

The Church consists of all those who, in this present dispensation, truly believe in Jesus Christ. It is the body and bride of Christ, which Christ loves and for which He has given Himself.

There is a personal devil, a being of great cunning and power: "The prince of the power of the air," "The prince of this world," "The god of this age." He can exert vast power only so far as God suffers him to do so. He shall ultimately be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and shall be tormented day and night forever.


Explanatory Note:

This doctrinal statement, presented here as originally conceived by the founders of the organization, has been and continues to be the stated theological position of Biola University. Where “man” is used, referring to the human race, it includes both genders. In addition, the following explanatory notes indicate the organization’s understanding and teaching position on certain points which could be subject to various interpretations:

In fulfillment of God’s historical purpose for humanity to rule and establish God’s kingdom on earth (Gen. 1:28; Ps. 8:4-8; Matt. 6:10 Heb. 2:6-9), the Scriptures teach a millennial reign of Christ with his saints on earth following his literal return. The nation of Israel, having been redeemed, will play a central role in bringing the blessings of salvation to all nations during the millennium in fulfillment of biblical prophecies (e.g., Is. 2:1-4, 11:1-12; Jer. 23:5-6; Ezek. 37; Amos 9:9-15; Zech. 14; Matt. 19:28; Acts 1:6, 3:19-21; Rev. 20:4-7). Following the millennium, this kingdom will be merged into the eternal kingdom (I Cor. 15:22-28).

Before these millennial events, the believers will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (I Thess. 4:13-17). The time of this “rapture” is unknown, and thus believers are to live constantly watchful and ready.

The existence and nature of the creation is due to the direct miraculous power of God. The origin of the universe, the origin of life, the origin of kinds of living things, and the origin of humans cannot be explained adequately apart from reference to that intelligent exercise of power. A proper understanding of science does not require that all phenomena in nature must be explained solely by reference to physical events, laws and chance.

Therefore, creation models which seek to harmonize science and the Bible should maintain at least the following: (a) God providentially directs His creation, (b) He specially intervened in at least the above-mentioned points in the creation process, and © God specially created Adam and Eve (Adam’s body from non-living material, and his spiritual nature immediately from God). Inadequate origin models hold that (a) God never directly intervened in creating nature and/or (b) humans share a common physical ancestry with earlier life forms.

Though there may be many fillings of the Holy Spirit, there is only one baptism which occurs at the time of regeneration. The gifts of the Spirit are given to believers according to the Will of God for the purpose of building up the Church. During the foundational era of the Church (i.e., the time of Christ and the Apostles) God gave special manifestations of the overtly supernatural and miraculous gifts (e.g., tongues, healings, miracles) as “signs” that witness to the validity of those bearing new canonical revelation (c.f. 2 Cor. 12:12; Heb. 2:3-4). Beyond the foundational era, God in His sovereignty may grant any spiritual gift and work miraculously for the benefit of His Church at any time.

The Bible is clear in its teaching on the sanctity of human life. Life begins at conception. We abhor the destruction of innocent life through abortion-on-demand.
Link

Oh yeah, one more thing.  The last winner of the Phillip Johnson award was ... Ben Stein.  You're being used, Professor.

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...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
fusilier



Posts: 239
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,11:59   

Quote (philbert @ July 19 2008,19:03)
In linking to the "Anthony Flew" piece on The God Delusion, O'Leary writes:

   
Quote
Antony Flew, formerly the most prominent atheist in the English speaking world, goes after Dawkins, his successor as head atheist


"Head atheist"? This trope has always amused me, and you do see it a lot. It seems that some Christians, especially the Popeish ones, simply cannot got their heads around the idea that we atheists might not roll in the authoritarian way that they do.

Philbert, I see you already corrected yourself - but it just makes your point more clearly.

It's the various Protestant* fundies who insist on there being a Head Atheist, analogous to the Bishop of Rome.  After all, the Pope is the anti-Christ, and the Church is the official Beast with Seven Heads from Revelations.

So Head Atheist = Pope of Atheists = Anti-Christ!



*There are fundie Catholics, to be sure, but they think the Pope is an OK guy, so the equation never occurs to them.

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fusilier
James 2:24

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 365
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,21:37   

From the Olivia Judson thread, for whoever keeps track of these things:

Quote
jerry  07/20/2008  8:15 pm

Well it looks like Stephen Matheson has got his wish and got banned from here. While he seemed to be going out of his way to be negative, he did raise some interesting questions that would have been nice to debate with him.

For example, he suggested that everything that Olivia Judson said was right on and I went off to read the article and had some questions for him when I discovered his comments were deleted.

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,01:53   

Naughty Reg!
Quote
5

Reg

07/20/2008

5:51 pm

Tard Alert!

@CrowsSupporter
Quote
If evolution isn’t Christian, is ID? This post seems to imply ID is Christian.

No. No no no, as both Discovery Institute and Uncommon Descent make clear: ID is consistent with religion but is not a religion nor is it founded on religion, it is certainly not in any way related to creationism, and the designer is not necessarily God. This is entirely consistent with the “Discovery Institute’s persistent stress on humans being made in the image of God“.

We'll see how long that one lasts.

EDIT: let's get them there tags in the right place this time...

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,06:32   

Good god!  Dave Scot is on his knees, licking my boots, begging me to spank him.

Janie!  What did you do to that boy???

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,06:48   

DaveScot doesn't seem to appreciate irony of this...
 
Quote
They wouldn’t have much to talk about on their blogs if you take away their obsession over intelligent design (like my dog with his ball) and they get much of their source material from us.

...appearing in an otherwise empty 1000 word post that solely concerns a conversation conducted by PZ and ERV that, as Dave documents, primarily addressed topics with no relationship to ID, UD and creationism.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,07:26   

Quote
DaveScot: They wouldn’t have much to talk about on their blogs if you take away their obsession over intelligent design (like my dog with his ball) and they get much of their source material from us.

Well, other than science. From the front pages of ERV and Pharyngula:

Quote
ERV: This next installment of 'Intro to ERVs' is about the coolest protein on the planet*, Env.


Quote
Pharyngula: Pathological cephalopod... Here's one of those tantalizing cases: an octopus with branching tentacles.



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Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,07:29   

Quote (ERV @ July 21 2008,06:32)
Good god!  Dave Scot is on his knees, licking my boots, begging me to spank him.

Janie!  What did you do to that boy???

It's Dembski's fault!  He posted a photo of that Judson chick!  Dave just had to respond!

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Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,09:02   

Quote (ERV @ July 21 2008,07:32)
Good god!  Dave Scot is on his knees, licking my boots, begging me to spank him.

Janie!  What did you do to that boy???

I think he's crushing on you.

Remember in third grade when the little boys would pull the little girls' pigtails, and how it really meant they liked them?

yeah, it's a lot like that.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
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(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,10:13   

Quote (Lou FCD @ July 21 2008,09:02)
Quote (ERV @ July 21 2008,07:32)
Good god!  Dave Scot is on his knees, licking my boots, begging me to spank him.

Janie!  What did you do to that boy???

I think he's crushing on you.

Remember in third grade when the little boys would pull the little girls' pigtails, and how it really meant they liked them?

yeah, it's a lot like that.

I do that in the office. Stupid 'human resources'....

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,10:18   

Quote
...Abbie lets us know how little she understands epigenetics...


If only she had Your education, Dave.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,10:34   

(Screwed up by editing, put my edit into DS's quote by mistake.  Starting over...)

Quote
Yes PZ, the sand on a beach is exceedingly complex. What you don’t seem to grok is that it has no specification. It doesn’t have component parts that function together in a machine that performs some specific task. There are no abstract codes in a pile of sand like there is in a strand of DNA. There is no ribosome translating those codes into instructions for assembling a protein. There is nothing like that in a pile of sand. There is no specification.


Sand piled into the shape of a person washing a car on the other hand is a machine which uses thousands of interacting  parts to carry out a specific task, and uses abstract codes and instructions for assembling a protein (or another car).

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,11:05   

Not quite getting the hang of this peer-review thing.

Quote
DLH: PeerGate review scandal at American Physical Society:

Quote
The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley:

Dear Dr. Bienenstock,

Please either remove the offending red-flag text at once or let me have the name and qualifications of the member of the Council or advisor to it who considered my paper before the Council ordered the offending text to be posted above my paper ...Having regard to the circumstances, surely the Council owes me an apology?

Quote
Prof. Arthur Bienenstock, President of the American Physical Society:

Thank you for your message concerning the American Physical Society’s treatment of the article by Lord Monckton in the Newsletter of the Forum on Physics and Society. I am writing to discuss issues raised by some of you...

the review was an editorial review for a newsletter, and not the substantive scientific peer review required for publication in our journals... I hope that this clarifies matters for you.

Quote
The Viscount Monckton of Brenchley:

Dear Dr. Bienenstock,

I have had your notice of refusal to remove your regrettable disclaimer from my paper Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered. Since you have not had the courtesy to remove and apologize for the unacceptable red-flag text that, on your orders, in effect invites readers of Physics and Society to disregard the paper that one of your editors had invited me to submit, and which I had submitted in good faith, and which I had revised in good faith after it had been meticulously reviewed by a Professor of Physics who was more than competent to review it, I must now require you to answer the questions that I had asked in my previous letter, videlicet –

1. Please provide the name and qualifications of the member of the Council or advisor to it (if any) who considered my paper (if anyone considered it) before the Council ordered the offending text to be posted above my paper;

2. Please provide a copy of this rapporteur’s findings (if any) and ratio decidendi (if any);

3. Please provide the date of the Council meeting (if there was one) at which the report (if any) was presented;

4. Please provide a copy of the minutes (if any) of the discussion (if there was one);

5. Please provide a copy of the text (if any) of the Council’s decision (if there was one);

6. Please provide a list of the names of those present (if any) at that Council meeting (if there was one);

7. If, as your silence on these points implies, the Council has not scientifically evaluated or formally considered my paper, please explain with what credible scientific justification, and on whose authority, the offending text asserts
primo, that the paper had not been scientifically reviewed, when it had (let us have no more semantic quibbles about the meaning of “scientific review”);
secundo, that its conclusions disagree with what is said (on no evidence) to be the “overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community”; and,
tertio, that “The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article’s conclusions”? Which of my conclusions does the Council disagree with, and on what scientific grounds (if any)? And, if the Council has not in fact met to consider my paper as your red-flag text above my paper implies, how dare you state (on no evidence) that the Council disagrees with my conclusions?

8. Please provide the requested apology without any further mendacity, prevarication, evasion, excuse, or delay.

Finally, was the Council’s own policy statement on “global warming” peer-reviewed? Or is it a mere regurgitation of some of the opinions of the UN’s climate panel? If the latter, why was the mere repetition thought necessary?

Yours truly,

Yours truly, you mendacious, prevaricating, evasive Dr. Bienenstock.

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Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
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Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,11:35   

Quote
Alleging that a Peer of the Realm violated scientific peer review - when in fact Lord Monckton had spent substantial effort responding to the APS’s peer review - is just not done!


What? What does being "a Peer of the Realm" have to do with anything? We had a revolution to make that point clear over 200 years ago. I guess if you are a Dominionist, God sanctioned nobility equals scientific accuity.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,12:59   

DLH might benefit from taking a peek at the actual process of peer review in an APS journal, such as Physical Review Letters.  Here is an excerpt from the form a referee submits to the editors (in addition to a written report):
Quote

This form is to assist the Editors and is not a substitute for
your written report. It may be useful, however, as an outline
for your report, which should explain why the paper does, or
does not, meet our criteria.
*****************************************************************

Manuscript Code:

Title:

Author:

Date:

Referee:


I. Letters published in PRL must meet a high standard of importance and
  interest.

  a) Please judge the importance of the paper to its specific field.

          not important ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very important

  b) Please judge the broad interest of the paper, apart from from its
     importance to its specific field, to a wide spectrum of physicists.

        not interesting ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very interesting

  c) Please judge the validity of the paper.

     probably not valid ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) probably valid

The Physics & Society editor did not evaluate any of those points.  There are two obvious reasons for that: (i) Physics & Society does not referee its articles.  (ii) The editor, Al Saperstein, is not an expert on climate.  Saperstein merely asked Monckton to edit the letter for clarity.  That's not peer review by any measure.

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Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,13:21   

Quote
Sand piled into the shape of a person washing a car on the other hand is a machine which uses thousands of interacting  parts to carry out a specific task, and uses abstract codes and instructions for assembling a protein (or another car).


To the cdesign proponentist all that matters is that something looks like something else in some superficial way. For DaveScot a pile of sand that looks like a car must be every bit as complex as an actual car. Never mind that you couldn't use key-shaped sand to drive it away.

Over on the Unreasonable Kansans thread, because the head of Tiktaalik kind of sort of looks like the head of an alligator gar, to ftk this means they're both nothing more than fish. Never mind what other interesting features have been found on Tiktaalik -- it's still a fish "kind" to the creobot mind.

This is the "science" of ID: comparing photos to see what things look like other things.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,13:25   

Quote (Chayanov @ July 21 2008,19:21)
This is the "science" of ID: comparing photos to see what things look like other things.

Now you're selling them short, they also look at pictures of things that look complicated, shrug and say an unspecified designer did it.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,13:27   

Quote (Chayanov @ July 21 2008,13:21)
This is the "science" of ID: comparing photos to see what things look like other things.

You mean like barite and sand formed to look like a flower?



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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,13:30   

Quote
Never mind what other interesting features have been found on Tiktaalik -- it's still a fish "kind" to the creobot mind.


Maybe if one takes "kind" to mean the same as "clade"... ;)

Henry

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,14:25   

Quote (Henry J @ July 21 2008,11:30)
Quote
Never mind what other interesting features have been found on Tiktaalik -- it's still a fish "kind" to the creobot mind.


Maybe if one takes "kind" to mean the same as "clade"... ;)

Henry

Without all that nested hierarchy business, which is the work of the devil.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Ra-Úl



Posts: 93
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,14:29   

Quote (Henry J @ July 21 2008,13:30)
Quote
Never mind what other interesting features have been found on Tiktaalik -- it's still a fish "kind" to the creobot mind.


Maybe if one takes "kind" to mean the same as "clade"... ;)

Henry

I see a new revolution in baraminology being born. Years from now baraminologists everywhere will ask each other where they were 7/21/08, when the first glimpse of the New Knowledge was revealed.

--------------
Beauty is that which makes us desperate. - P Valery

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,16:15   

Dave refers to a pile of sand as being unspecified and uses these examples:
Complex unspecified sand

Complex specified sand

The question is not whether the pile of sand looks like something we recognize.  That certainly is an indicator that the sand was placed by a human intelligence, but it is of no help to recognize anything produced by non-human intelligence.  It is also of little help trying to identify historic objects where the original purpose has been forgotten.
Complex Unspecified stone or Complex specified stone?


It would also be a mistake to think that the sand dune is devoid of information.  Coded into the structure is the medium that produced the dune, the velocity (magnitude and direction) of the wind, the grain size of the sand etc.  

How do we know that the dune was not the product of an intelligent wind producing writing or a sculpture with some meaning to its kind?  

The answer is that we don't, but we can show that the assumption of such an intelligent wind is unnecessary; the micro and macro waves (ripples and dunes) can be adequately explained by natural forces.  Sorry Hopi, Aeolus, Boreas, Zephyr, Notus, Euru etc. Since there is no other evidence for intelligent winds (other than the Discovery Institute) we can confidently reject that hypothesis.

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,16:31   

Quote (olegt @ July 21 2008,12:59)
DLH might benefit from taking a peek at the actual process of peer review in an APS journal, such as Physical Review Letters.  Here is an excerpt from the form a referee submits to the editors (in addition to a written report):
 
Quote

This form is to assist the Editors and is not a substitute for
your written report. It may be useful, however, as an outline
for your report, which should explain why the paper does, or
does not, meet our criteria.
*****************************************************************

Manuscript Code:

Title:

Author:

Date:

Referee:


I. Letters published in PRL must meet a high standard of importance and
  interest.

  a) Please judge the importance of the paper to its specific field.

          not important ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very important

  b) Please judge the broad interest of the paper, apart from from its
     importance to its specific field, to a wide spectrum of physicists.

        not interesting ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very interesting

  c) Please judge the validity of the paper.

     probably not valid ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) probably valid

The Physics & Society editor did not evaluate any of those points.  There are two obvious reasons for that: (i) Physics & Society does not referee its articles.  (ii) The editor, Al Saperstein, is not an expert on climate.  Saperstein merely asked Monckton to edit the letter for clarity.  That's not peer review by any measure.

Let's hope evil scientists never splice the DLH gene with the Andy Schlafly gene.  Woe to humanity if that kind of turbo-tard should ever be unleashed on mankind.  I shudder at the thought.

For super DLH tard take a look at what he contributes to conservapedia.  That dunce makes Dave Tard look smart.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1706
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,19:42   

Quote (CeilingCat @ July 20 2008,08:06)
Another non-sequiter.  Yes, Professor Flew, I'm sure they treated you royally at Biola.  You're a great prize for them.  A person with an actual intellectual reputation saying something that they agree with is a great rarity indeed, scarcer than hen's teeth and definitely something to be gloated over.  I'm sure they pampered you to the max - while using you in your old age.



Philosopher Flew has changed his view
Due to faith or confusion or voodoo
Flew fled from real to illusions
So now religious delusion’s
The woo-woo Doc Flew wants to hew to

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,19:58   

Quote (N.Wells @ July 21 2008,19:42)
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 20 2008,08:06)
Another non-sequiter.  Yes, Professor Flew, I'm sure they treated you royally at Biola.  You're a great prize for them.  A person with an actual intellectual reputation saying something that they agree with is a great rarity indeed, scarcer than hen's teeth and definitely something to be gloated over.  I'm sure they pampered you to the max - while using you in your old age.



Philosopher Flew has changed his view
Due to faith or confusion or voodoo
Flew fled from real to illusions
So now religious delusion’s
The woo-woo Doc Flew wants to hew to

Cound't he at least do his research on Nantucket?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 994
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,20:33   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 21 2008,16:31)
For super DLH tard take a look at what he contributes to conservapedia.  That dunce makes Dave Tard look smart.

Any particular pages/articles there that you recommend?

I have noticed he (well a DLH) made an edit on the Wikipedia PZ Myers discussion page (see the stuart blessman heading) after the Expelled prescreening affair and got a pretty quick smackdown for "sloppy scholarship".

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,21:08   

Quote
20
DLH
07/21/2008
8:21 pm
soplo
Please review the history above.
Was not Lord Monckton entirely within his right to point out strongly unscientific and unfair disclamation singling out one side and not the other side when both sides were invited to post articles in an open debate?

There appears to have been major exaggerations about the case in blogs and a reaction against those by the APS.

By the way, he has posted nine of his other papers at the Science and Public Policy Institute

Lord Monckton and the SPPI outfit (where he serves as Chief Policy Adviser) richly deserve all of this---and much, much more.  On July 15 the SPPI issued the following press release:
Quote

Proved: There is No Climate Crisis
Written by Robert Ferguson  
Tuesday, 15 July 2008

WASHINGTON (7-15-08) - Mathematical proof that there is no “climate crisis” appears today in a major, peer-reviewed paper in Physics and Society, a learned journal of the 10,000-strong American Physical Society, SPPI reports.  Christopher Monckton, who once advised Margaret Thatcher, demonstrates via 30 equations that computer models used by the UN’s climate panel (IPCC) were pre-programmed with overstated values for the three variables whose product is “climate sensitivity” (temperature increase in response to greenhouse-gas increase), resulting in a 500-2000% overstatement of CO2’s effect on temperature in the IPCC’s latest climate assessment report, published in 2007.

Of course the APS had to correct this shameless promotion by putting the disclaimer front and center.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Frostman



Posts: 29
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 21 2008,22:02   

Quote (olegt @ July 21 2008,12:59)
[...]
                   
Quote
[...]
  a) Please judge the importance of the paper to its specific field.

          not important ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very important

  b) Please judge the broad interest of the paper, apart from from its
     importance to its specific field, to a wide spectrum of physicists.

        not interesting ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) very interesting

  c) Please judge the validity of the paper.

     probably not valid ( )  ( )  ( )  ( )  ( ) probably valid

[...]

I have nothing relevant to add, yet I cannot resist mentioning how the parenthesis above triggered in my mind a deep longing, sad and unrequited, as a beautiful girl once loved long ago but for whom circumstance was unkind, to write in Lisp once again.  And, lo, the world was overtaken by the foolish who did not understand that code is data and data is code.  XML is s-expression in a cheap tuxedo, yet in thy wicked attire we are forsaken, even unto the end of the world.

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,07:07   

Quidam wrote above:

Quote
Since there is no other evidence for intelligent winds (other than the Discovery Institute) we can confidently reject that hypothesis.


Ha ha ha this is Davetard looking for that divine intelligent wind:


  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,09:08   

I do so love it when Dave is on a roll...            

Quote
Common sense probably won’t tell YOU much about evolution because you think it’s the result of a random dance of molecules. However, common sense is used a lot in engineering and if you look at celluar machinery as something which was engineered by a mind it tells you a lot. Many of the same solutions that we invent have analogs in the machinery of life from aerodynamics of bird wings to the base-4 serial encoding of genes to the ribosome which reads copies of genes like a paper tape through an older computer and translates the instructions to pick & place different amino acids building them into complex parts with function and fit in at least 5 dimensions (3-spatial plus 2 electrostatic) just like factory robots work.

The next big thing the bumbling buffoons of accidental causation are going to discover is that 3 billion base pairs of DNA isn’t anywhere near enough to specify the construction of a human being complete with hard-wired autonomous operating system, exquisite sensory apparatus, instincts, a neural network that learns as it goes and models reality at levels we can only dream about with our current information processing systems, and etcetera. That you can’t specify a system of that complexity in that little storage space is a matter of experience and common sense in engineering.

Mark my words, there is at least a magnitude (I’d guess several orders) more heritable information in epigenetic form than in genetic form. The genome is little more than a really well organized and cross referenced component library which is why we share 99% of those components with chimps and 50% with bananas. And it’s also why all we really know about why a horse is a horse and not a fly is because the horse’s mother was a horse.

It might interest you to know that when nuclear transfers are done between different species development (until it aborts at an early stage) proceeds along the lines of the organism that produced the enucleated egg not the organism from which the nucleus was obtained. The Altenberg 16 are just beginning to realize how vast is the scope of epigenetic information.

Aside for ERV since I know she’ll read this:

No, Abbie, I don’t think epigenetics are magic but I will remind you of one Arthur C. Clarke’s three laws of prediction: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” A simple bacteria isn’t sufficiently advanced anymore but a complete human being still is. And shame on you for not reading Venter’s biography. I think the Venter Institute is the single most important company in the world as far as potential for delivering technology that can change the way we live more than anything else in history including fire and agriculture. The engineering opportunities in being able to program bacteria to build whatever we want with atomic accuracy, just using materials and sources of energy they already use (think of extremophiles), is mind boggling. Venter’s on the fast track towards that goal.

So my view I guess, just because as a technologist I recognize technology in the machinery of life, it’s a real science stopper. Yeah right. Now get busy. I didn’t spend 25 years making networked computers into cheap household appliances so you can squander your time bashing creationists. I did it so you can process, correlate, and share the growing mountain of information needed to reverse-engineer the simplest cells (plus the money was really really good and it was fun too). Read Eric Drexler’s “Engines of Creation” when you get a chance. That’s a roadmap to nanotechnlogy written over 20 years ago. A globe spanning hypertext network was one step along the way. The next step is what Venter is doing.


--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,09:12   

Quote (Ftk @ July 22 2008,09:08)
I do so love it when Dave is on a roll...            

   
Quote
Common sense probably won’t tell YOU much about evolution because you think it’s the result of a random dance of molecules.

Yeah,

Davescot discovered a new word/concept.

So what FTK?

Still, this is par for the course for you right?

Big old quote with a single sentence from you.

I bet you don't even understand what he's going on about, you are just happy that it appears to reinforce your beliefs.

Tell me FTK, why does epigenetics support intelligent design again? In your own words, if possible!

C'mon. You can't make yourself look any more foolish.


Tell me FTK, why does epigenetics support intelligent design again?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
EyeNoU



Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,09:24   

Pregnant pause while somebody is googling rapidly.......

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,09:27   

Quote (Ftk @ July 22 2008,09:08)
I do so love it when Dave is on a roll...            

Quote
Aside for ERV since I know she’ll read this:

No, Abbie, I don’t think epigenetics are magic but I will remind you of one Arthur C. Clarke’s three laws of prediction: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” A simple bacteria isn’t sufficiently advanced anymore but a complete human being still is. And shame on you for not reading Venter’s biography. I think the Venter Institute is the single most important company in the world as far as potential for delivering technology that can change the way we live more than anything else in history including fire and agriculture. The engineering opportunities in being able to program bacteria to build whatever we want with atomic accuracy, just using materials and sources of energy they already use (think of extremophiles), is mind boggling. Venter’s on the fast track towards that goal.

Well, let's just check out J. Craig Venter and see what he says.

Quote
Venter: We didn't evolve separately from everything else, we evolved through this effort of billions and billions of years working back from single cell organisms to more and more complex organisms.

Now, let's see what the Venter Institute is up to with their Tree of Life Project.

Quote
Venter Institute: The data from these genome sequences will then be used to improve the understanding of the complex phylogenetic relationships among major bacterial phyla to provide information and resources that will allow scientists to examine the evolutionary relationships within these poorly understood phyla in more depth than is now possible and to launch experimental studies on the biology and physiology of organisms in these phyla.




Ftk, do you remember a rather famous Victorian scientist who drew a similar diagram? It was important enough to this scientist that it was the only diagram in his opus magnum, Origin of Species. And here it is, Queen Victoria dead for more than a century, and J. Craig Venter is still drawing it.



--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,11:05   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 21 2008,11:18)
Quote
...Abbie lets us know how little she understands epigenetics...


If only she had Your education, Dave.

Davetard honestly thinks he understands epigenetics better than a biology grad student? What a retard.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,11:10   

I went back and read what Davetard said and it's worse than I knew:
Quote
The Altenberg 16 are just beginning to realize how vast is the scope of epigenetic information.


He doesn't just think he knows more about epigenetics than a biology grad student, he thinks he knows more about epigenetics than 16 of the world's best biologists. That's not just dense. That's Uncommonly Dense™.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,11:20   

Quote (stevestory @ July 22 2008,11:10)
He doesn't just think he knows more about epigenetics than a biology grad student, he thinks he knows more about epigenetics than 16 of the world's best biologists.

That's not just dense. That's Uncommonly Dense™.

Lines of The Year Award?

(They perfectly summarize what UD is all about!)

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,11:32   

Quote (stevestory @ July 22 2008,11:10)
I went back and read what Davetard said and it's worse than I knew:
Quote
The Altenberg 16 are just beginning to realize how vast is the scope of epigenetic information.


He doesn't just think he knows more about epigenetics than a biology grad student, he thinks he knows more about epigenetics than 16 of the world's best biologists. That's not just dense. That's Uncommonly Dense™.

Intelligent design predicted this.

Or at least, it will do in a few years...

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,11:38   

Davetard said:
Quote
Now get busy. I didn’t spend 25 years making networked computers into cheap household appliances so you can squander your time bashing creationists. I did it so you can process, correlate, and share the growing mountain of information needed to reverse-engineer the simplest cells (plus the money was really really good and it was fun too).


He claims credit for the desktop computer revolution, and also says he did it to advance the field of bioinformatics? Even at UD, who would possibly believe those lies?

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:13   

Not quite, Steve.  He's claiming credit for hoovers that can estimate the volume of cheesy poof crumbs, and thereby optimise their own performance.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1431
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:16   

Quote (stevestory @ July 22 2008,11:10)
I went back and read what Davetard said and it's worse than I knew:
 
Quote
The Altenberg 16 are just beginning to realize how vast is the scope of epigenetic information.


He doesn't just think he knows more about epigenetics than a biology grad student, he thinks he knows more about epigenetics than 16 of the world's best biologists. That's not just dense. That's Uncommonly Dense™.

Well, how many of them read hard science fiction and subscribe to have their wives subscribe to Scientific American?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
themartu



Posts: 28
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:29   

Top Tard from Dave:

 
Quote
I mean really, who gives a flip if whales came from hippos or birds from dinosaurs or what have you. Ancient history. Interesting in a academic way but otherwise useless. Why waste the talent on impractical things when we have so much to do in more productive areas of research?


I know the answer to this - it's the trophy wives and mountains of cash isn't it? C'mon scientists you can tell me.

My first post in the new thread, feels...about the same.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:40   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 22 2008,12:13)
Not quite, Steve.  He's claiming credit for hoovers that can estimate the volume of cheesy poof crumbs, and thereby optimise their own performance.

How are you not on his shit-list, Bob?  :D

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:49   

Quote (themartu @ July 22 2008,13:29)
Top Tard from Dave:

   
Quote
Why waste the talent on impractical things when we have so much to do in more productive areas of research?

Yes, Dave, let's focus on the more productive areas of research. Great idea. Here's the productivity of the journal Evolution this month:

 
Quote
Current Issue
Volume 62 Issue 7 (July 2008)

ORIGINAL ARTICLES

DEFINED ORDER OF EVOLUTIONARY ADAPTATIONS: EXPERIMENTAL EVIDENCE (p 1547-1554)
Erez Oxman, Uri Alon, Erez Dekel
Published Online: Apr 11 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00397.x

Abstract  |  References | Full Text:   HTML,   PDF (Size: 182K)  | Supporting information
Save Article

NATURAL SELECTION ALONG AN ENVIRONMENTAL GRADIENT: A CLASSIC CLINE IN MOUSE PIGMENTATION (p 1555-1570)
Lynne M. Mullen, Hopi E. Hoekstra
Published Online: May 16 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00425.x

Abstract  |  References | Full Text:   HTML,   PDF (Size: 1018K)  | Supporting information
Save Article

DETERMINANTS OF THE STRENGTH OF DISRUPTIVE AND/OR DIVERGENT SELECTION ARISING FROM RESOURCE COMPETITION (p 1571-1586)
Peter A. Abrams, Claus Rueffler, Gary Kim
Published Online: Mar 26 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00385.x

Abstract  |  References | Full Text:   HTML,   PDF (Size: 333K)
Save Article

CONVERGENCE IN A MECHANICALLY COMPLEX PHENOTYPE: DETECTING STRUCTURAL ADAPTATIONS FOR CRUSHING IN CICHLID FISH (p 1587-1599)
C. Darrin Hulsey, Richard J. Roberts, Angela S. P. Lin, Robert Guldberg, J. Todd Streelman
Published Online: May 2 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00384.x

Abstract  |  References | Full Text:   HTML,   PDF (Size: 344K)
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FIXATION PROBABILITIES DEPEND ON LIFE HISTORY: FECUNDITY, GENERATION TIME AND SURVIVAL IN A BURST-DEATH MODEL (p 1600-1609)
H.K. Alexander, L.M. Wahl
Published Online: Apr 11 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00396.x

Abstract  |  References | Full Text:   HTML,   PDF (Size: 194K)
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ANTAGONISTIC, STAGE-SPECIFIC SELECTION ON DEFENSIVE CHEMICAL SEQUESTRATION IN A TOXIC BUTTERFLY (p 1610-1617)
James A. Fordyce, Chris C. Nice
Published Online: Mar 26 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00388.x

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DID TECTONIC ACTIVITY STIMULATE OLIGO–MIOCENE SPECIATION IN THE INDO-WEST PACIFIC? (p 1618-1634)
Suzanne T. Williams, Thomas F. Duda Jr
Published Online: Apr 11 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00399.x

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MECHANISMS OF REPRODUCTIVE ISOLATION BETWEEN AN ANT SPECIES OF HYBRID ORIGIN AND ONE OF ITS PARENTS (p 1635-1643)
Tanja Schwander, Sevan S. Suni, Sara Helms Cahan, Laurent Keller
Published Online: Mar 26 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00387.x

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SEX RATIO DISTORTER REDUCES SPERM COMPETITIVE ABILITY IN AN INSECT (p 1644-1652)
Tom A. R. Price, Amanda J. Bretman, Tomos D. Avent, Rhonda R. Snook, Gregory D. D. Hurst, Nina Wedell
Published Online: Mar 26 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00386.x

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MALE GENETIC QUALITY AND THE INEQUALITY BETWEEN PATERNITY SUCCESS AND FERTILIZATION SUCCESS: CONSEQUENCES FOR STUDIES OF SPERM COMPETITION AND THE EVOLUTION OF POLYANDRY (p 1653-1665)
Francisco García-González
Published Online: Mar 1 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00362.x

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DIRECT AND INDIRECT FITNESS CONSEQUENCES OF FEMALE CHOICE IN A CRUSTACEAN (p 1666-1675)
Rickey D. Cothran
Published Online: Apr 10 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00403.x

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DISASSORTATIVE MATING, SEXUAL SPECIALIZATION, AND THE EVOLUTION OF GENDER DIMORPHISM IN HETERODICHOGAMOUS ACER OPALUS (p 1676-1688)
Gabriela Gleiser, Miguel Verdú, José G. Segarra-Moragues, Santiago C. González-Martínez, John R. Pannell
Published Online: Apr 2 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00394.x

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SOCIALLY ACQUIRED HOST-SPECIFIC MIMICRY AND THE EVOLUTION OF HOST RACES IN HORSFIELD'S BRONZE-CUCKOO CHALCITES BASALIS (p 1689-1699)
Naomi E. Langmore, Golo Maurer, Greg J. Adcock, Rebecca M. Kilner
Published Online: Apr 18 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00405.x

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THE EFFECTS OF MULTIPLE INFECTIONS ON THE EXPRESSION AND EVOLUTION OF VIRULENCE IN A DAPHNIA-ENDOPARASITE SYSTEM (p 1700-1711)
Frida Ben-Ami, Laurence Mouton, Dieter Ebert
Published Online: Apr 2 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00391.x

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IS FLORAL SPECIALIZATION AN EVOLUTIONARY DEAD-END? POLLINATION SYSTEM TRANSITIONS IN RUELLIA (ACANTHACEAE) (p 1712-1737)
Erin A. Tripp, Paul S. Manos
Published Online: Apr 11 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00398.x

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HERITABILITY AND CORRELATION STRUCTURE OF NECTAR AND FLORAL MORPHOLOGY TRAITS IN NICOTIANA ALATA (p 1738-1750)
Rainee L. Kaczorowski, Thomas E. Juenger, Timothy P. Holtsford
Published Online: Apr 10 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00400.x

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NATURAL SELECTION ON FLORAL TRAITS THROUGH MALE AND FEMALE FUNCTION IN WILD POPULATIONS OF THE HETEROSTYLOUS DAFFODIL NARCISSUS TRIANDRUS (p 1751-1763)
Kathryn A. Hodgins, Spencer C. H. Barrett
Published Online: Apr 18 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00404.x

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PHYLOGENETIC ANALYSIS OF THE ECOLOGY AND EVOLUTION OF MAMMALIAN SLEEP (p 1764-1776)
Isabella Capellini, Robert A. Barton, Patrick McNamara, Brian T. Preston, Charles L. Nunn
Published Online: Apr 2 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00392.x

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ONE FIG TO BIND THEM ALL: HOST CONSERVATISM IN A FIG WASP COMMUNITY UNRAVELED BY COSPECIATION ANALYSES AMONG POLLINATING AND NONPOLLINATING FIG WASPS (p 1777-1797)
Emmanuelle Jousselin, Simon van Noort, Vincent Berry, Jean-Yves Rasplus, Nina Rřnsted, J. Christoff Erasmus, Jaco M. Greeff
Published Online: Apr 18 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00406.x

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BRIEF COMMUNICATIONS

A RARE MODEL LIMITS THE DISTRIBUTION OF ITS MORE COMMON MIMIC: A TWIST ON FREQUENCY-DEPENDENT BATESIAN MIMICRY (p 1798-1803)
Leslie Ries, Sean P. Mullen
Published Online: Apr 10 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00401.x

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SEXUAL SELECTION AND INTERACTING PHENOTYPES IN EXPERIMENTAL EVOLUTION: A STUDY OF DROSOPHILA PSEUDOOBSCURA MATING BEHAVIOR (p 1804-1812)
Leonardo D. Bacigalupe, Helen S. Crudgington, Jon Slate, Allen J. Moore, Rhonda R. Snook
Published Online: Apr 10 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00402.x

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BOOK REVIEW

THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME?1 (p 1813-1815)
Richard G. Harrison
Published Online: Mar 26 2008 12:00AM
DOI: 10.1111/j.1558-5646.2008.00383.x

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And here's the productivity of the Intelligent Design Journal this whole year:

 
Quote




















   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:56   

hey, my phd advisor has a paper in that issue!  Go science.

in other news, still waiting on the ID scientific revolution.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,12:57   

Let's complete the sentence:
Quote
I mean really, who gives a flip if whales came from hippos or birds from dinosaurs or what have you...

...or if they were intelligently designed.

Hmm, Rich, I see what you mean.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,13:00   

If Dave doesn't give a flip whether animals evolved, he is the only person in the ID movement who feels that way. All the ID claims boil down to "This stuff is complicated and couldn't have evolved."

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,13:10   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ July 22 2008,10:56)
hey, my phd advisor has a paper in that issue!  Go science.

"Rhonda R. Snook", I hope?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,13:22   

Quote (themartu @ July 22 2008,12:29)
Top Tard from Dave:

Quote
I mean really, who gives a flip if whales came from hippos or birds from dinosaurs or what have you. Ancient history. Interesting in a academic way but otherwise useless. Why waste the talent on impractical things when we have so much to do in more productive areas of research?

With the interest DaveScot has shown in J. Craig Venter, let's ask Craig to elaborate on his previous comment.

Quote
Venter: ... it's critical because it shows that we're part of this entire genetic repertoire on this planet. We didn't evolve separately from everything else, we evolved through this effort of billions and billions of years working back from single cell organisms to more and more complex organisms. We have the same genes as in the bacteria. The enzymes that correct defects, the genetic code from radiation damage, UV damage in a bacteria, are the same ones that are related to cancer in humans. Those processes are highly conserved. So in fact the best hope for understanding human biology and medicine is that we can use the genomes, the sequences from other species, to understand the human ones.

So in the hope of curing cancer, Venter looks to the evolutionary kinship between organisms as diverse as bacteria and humans, organisms that diverged a billion years or more ago.

Quote
DaveScot: Ancient history.


The past is not dead. In fact, it's not even past. -- William Faulkner

--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,13:27   

DaveScot’s magical mushroom mystery tour brought back a fond memory. I went on a hike in the Massachusetts woods with Dennis Magee, the author of this tome.  (And, he added, apropos nothing--yet somehow apropos everything, a devout Christian and member of my church--well not my church, but you know what I mean.) If you must be lost in the woods, this is a guy you want to be with. He would suddenly stop, start digging, uncover some roots and shoots and say “here, try these, they’re delicious.” Eventually I even stopped waiting for him to try them first.

Edited to add a missing period.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,13:42   

Quote (dheddle @ July 22 2008,13:27)
DaveScot’s magical mushroom mystery tour brought back a fond memory. I went on a hike in the Massachusetts woods with Dennis Magee, the author of this tome.  (And, he added, apropos nothing--yet somehow apropos everything, a devout Christian and member of my church--well not my church, but you know what I mean.) If you must be lost in the woods, this is a guy you want to be with. He would suddenly stop, start digging, uncover some roots and shoots and say “here, try these, they’re delicious.” Eventually I even stopped waiting for him to try them first.

Edited to add a missing period.

I'd just like to point out that my fundy friend bingo sheet is nearly complete. Dave was obviously a coup (let's do beers, Dave!) but now my architect is a Zoroastrian.

Nom nom non-denominational hug, everyone!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,15:12   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 22 2008,13:42)
   
Quote (dheddle @ July 22 2008,13:27)
DaveScot’s magical mushroom mystery tour brought back a fond memory. I went on a hike in the Massachusetts woods with Dennis Magee, the author of this tome.  (And, he added, apropos nothing--yet somehow apropos everything, a devout Christian and member of my church--well not my church, but you know what I mean.) If you must be lost in the woods, this is a guy you want to be with. He would suddenly stop, start digging, uncover some roots and shoots and say “here, try these, they’re delicious.” Eventually I even stopped waiting for him to try them first.

Edited to add a missing period.

I'd just like to point out that my fundy friend bingo sheet is nearly complete. Dave was obviously a coup (let's do beers, Dave!) but now my architect is a Zoroastrian.

Nom nom non-denominational hug, everyone!


I like BINGO too, but this card is a loser!





Edited by Lou FCD on July 22 2008,18:44

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,15:18   

Quote (dheddle @ July 22 2008,15:12)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 22 2008,13:42)
   
Quote (dheddle @ July 22 2008,13:27)
DaveScot’s magical mushroom mystery tour brought back a fond memory. I went on a hike in the Massachusetts woods with Dennis Magee, the author of this tome.  (And, he added, apropos nothing--yet somehow apropos everything, a devout Christian and member of my church--well not my church, but you know what I mean.) If you must be lost in the woods, this is a guy you want to be with. He would suddenly stop, start digging, uncover some roots and shoots and say “here, try these, they’re delicious.” Eventually I even stopped waiting for him to try them first.

Edited to add a missing period.

I'd just like to point out that my fundy friend bingo sheet is nearly complete. Dave was obviously a coup (let's do beers, Dave!) but now my architect is a Zoroastrian.

Nom nom non-denominational hug, everyone!


I like BINGO too, but this card is a loser!


POTW.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,15:24   

Seconded.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,15:34   

A masterpiece.



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 22 2008,18:12   

davetard is a bloomin' idiot.
Quote
This is off topic. Specifically botany and mycology. I thought some readers might find it of interest.


three cheers for honesty.  biology is off topic at UD.

Quote
I’m vacationing for the summer up north, it’s been wet and warm, perfect for mushrooms so this morning my daughter and I went walking through some woods and fields looking for mushrooms. I really wanted to get a sack of table mushrooms (Agaricus bisporus; button mushroom; portobello) to cook up. All I found in that regard was one lonely old portobello long past its prime. We found lots of boletes, amanitas, lbm’s (little brown mushrooms), death caps, and one odd thing that was sort of mushroom shaped, lumpy, light violet, but no gills I could discern. Disappointingly, no puffballs.


of course he would be up north.  i have to spit when i say that.

i prefer A campestris but perhaps that is a synonym or something.  Anyway, boletes (edible species of course) are mucho mas deliciosas than ratty old Agaricus.  And certainly more than puffballs, unless by that he means the large puffball.  That one is good, breaded and deepfried appropriately, of course.

Score, Davetard 2 points for knowing something, anything at all, about some organism.

Quote
We did find something fairly rare though that I’d seen once before but didn’t know what it was.


I love his inability to stop preening and macho grandstanding, just for one eensy teensy second.  And by the way, indian pipes are not rare at all.  Of course that is a subjective claim anyway.
Quote
They have “flesh” that seems indistinguishable from mushrooms, no chlorophyl whatsoever, but they also have unmistakable leaves, petals, pistils, and stamens so I knew they had to be a plant.


Now, my question is did he do this using the Explanatory Filter?  If not, why?  If so, please show me the math.  
Quote
except for the obvious plant parts you’d swear it itself was a fungus.


actually dave, you would.  my paw learnt me 'em thangs way back-a-this, and his paw learnt him.  not even us barefoot toothless barnyard orchestratin' hillbillies ever thunked that was a funjus.  

I have to congratulate this fool for actually hinting at something remotely biological for once.  As I have a passion for things mycological and edible, DaveyTard, get in touch with me and I'll take you a-mushroomin.  I know you be readin dis suckah.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,01:05   

In ERV's thread on the AIG nuts, Paul Burnett posted on a faith-healing expedition by Dembski on July 3.   http://pandasthumb.org/archive....panels

Apparently Billy went to see one Todd Bentley, a "faith-healer" who currently shears the flock in Florida. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Bentley

Now, I feel sympathy for Dembski's autistic son, and -- to some degree -- for the difficulties this malady has raised in the Dembski household. But why the FUCK would a guy take his kid to go see a person that apparently molested other boys while he himself was a kid in Canada? http://charismamag.com/articles/index.php?id=7032

To top it off, he also claims to have raised 13 people from the dead? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMSGG9W5CNU

I don't give a shit about Bentley's tattoos or his World Wrestling Federation -style revivalist hucksterism, but *the idea that Dembski was so desperate and so fucking stupid as to bother to GO for Bentley's shit is telling,*
particularly when he was apparently already aware of the less-than-credible aspects of Bentley's little act.


Dembski writes about it here: http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28460

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 994
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,02:18   

Slightly off topic, but I haven't heard any mention here yet of the 4 YouTube clips of Dr Dr D and Sean McDowell re their upcoming book. I found them here,  although you can go directly to the first one at YouTube here. Lots of good ID-is-science, praise-the-Lord sorta stuff. Money quote from the first clip - WAD:      
Quote
[I put this quote on all my syllabi] What you believe to be true will control you, whether it is true or not.

The ironing is delicious.
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere here.

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,02:45   

The Dr. Dr., from the first video:  
Quote
If you believe that you're the result of an accidental process of natural history, that we're not intended beings, that there's no God or intelligence behind us, how are you going to find purpose in life except the purpose that you create?  You know?  And then what happens after you're dead?  Well, if you're just an accidental bunch of matter that's come together when you die your matter disintegrates and you go back to what you were before, and there's no you left.

I hate to tell you this, Bill, but there's no Santa Claus either.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,04:16   

Quote (keiths @ July 23 2008,02:45)
The Dr. Dr., from the first video:    
Quote
If you believe that you're the result of an accidental process of natural history, that we're not intended beings, that there's no God or intelligence behind us, how are you going to find purpose in life except the purpose that you create?  You know?  And then what happens after you're dead?  Well, if you're just an accidental bunch of matter that's come together when you die your matter disintegrates and you go back to what you were before, and there's no you left.

I hate to tell you this, Bill, but there's no Santa Claus either.

If there's no Santa then who strangled my pets when I was a kid?

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,04:20   

Quote
deadman_932: I don't give a shit about Bentley's tattoos or his World Wrestling Federation -style revivalist hucksterism, but *the idea that Dembski was so desperate and so fucking stupid as to bother to GO for Bentley's shit is telling,*
particularly when he was apparently already aware of the less-than-credible aspects of Bentley's little act.
Dembski is constitutionally unable to spot a con-man or a faker.  
Which explains a lot.

To his credit, he mentioned the experience on UD here  and he did say he thought this particular faker was probably a faker from the beginning.  Probably the tatoos.

--------------
...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,05:55   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ July 23 2008,10:16)
Quote (keiths @ July 23 2008,02:45)
The Dr. Dr., from the first video:      
Quote
If you believe that you're the result of an accidental process of natural history, that we're not intended beings, that there's no God or intelligence behind us, how are you going to find purpose in life except the purpose that you create?  You know?  And then what happens after you're dead?  Well, if you're just an accidental bunch of matter that's come together when you die your matter disintegrates and you go back to what you were before, and there's no you left.

I hate to tell you this, Bill, but there's no Santa Claus either.

If there's no Santa then who strangled my pets when I was a kid?

{Shyly raises hand}

Ummmm, yeah about that......

Louis

P.S. Sorry for the terrible presents, I realise you wanted Malibu Barbie but the elves ran out and so I had to substitute Aspen Barbie. I hope it didn't traumatise you too much. Anyway, isn't Santa a Lap? And we all know about Laps.....

--------------
Bye.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,06:27   

Quote (deadman_932 @ July 23 2008,02:05)
In ERV's thread on the AIG nuts, Paul Burnett posted on a faith-healing expedition by Dembski on July 3.   http://pandasthumb.org/archive....panels

Apparently Billy went to see one Todd Bentley, a "faith-healer" who currently shears the flock in Florida. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Bentley

Now, I feel sympathy for Dembski's autistic son, and -- to some degree -- for the difficulties this malady has raised in the Dembski household....

Some posts on WAD's journey into disillusionment start here.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,07:40   

Quote (Louis @ July 23 2008,05:55)
{Shyly raises hand}

Ummmm, yeah about that......

Louis

P.S. Sorry for the terrible presents, I realise you wanted Malibu Barbie but the elves ran out and so I had to substitute Aspen Barbie. I hope it didn't traumatise you too much. Anyway, isn't Santa a Lap? And we all know about Laps.....


No worries. My childhood made a well-balanced and reasonable individual:


--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,07:45   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ July 23 2008,13:40)
Quote (Louis @ July 23 2008,05:55)
{Shyly raises hand}

Ummmm, yeah about that......

Louis

P.S. Sorry for the terrible presents, I realise you wanted Malibu Barbie but the elves ran out and so I had to substitute Aspen Barbie. I hope it didn't traumatise you too much. Anyway, isn't Santa a Lap? And we all know about Laps.....


No worries. My childhood made a well-balanced and reasonable individual:

Good oh. Glad to have helped.

{sound of frantic rummaging}

Now where did I put that shotgun?

{polite nervous laugh}

Ahahahahahaha

Louis

P.S. Very pretty btw, I like what you've done with your hair.

{Points to the distance}

Good lord, is that Jeffy Dahmer and sweet little Eddie Gein over there?

{Runs other way}

--------------
Bye.

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,07:46   

DaveScot: So their ultimate source of nutrients is a normal green photosynthetic plant but it gets those nutrients second hand by way of a fungus and except for the obvious plant parts you’d swear it itself was a fungus.

My first idea was to wonder how that thing is NOT a transitional in the creationist mindset. They've been asking for a half-cat half-dog or half-frog half-fish for ages.

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,07:47   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ July 23 2008,07:40)
Quote (Louis @ July 23 2008,05:55)
{Shyly raises hand}

Ummmm, yeah about that......

Louis

P.S. Sorry for the terrible presents, I realise you wanted Malibu Barbie but the elves ran out and so I had to substitute Aspen Barbie. I hope it didn't traumatise you too much. Anyway, isn't Santa a Lap? And we all know about Laps.....


No worries. My childhood made a well-balanced and reasonable individual:

That looks like Blipey getting ready to visit DaveScot!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,07:56   

Louis wrote:

Quote
sweet little Eddie Gein over there?


FYI, "crazy ol' Eddie" lived about 2 1/2 hours east of where I am right now.  To this day, dropping his name within earshot of many Wisconsinites (/cheeseheads) will result a major conversational black hole.

Just so's ya know.    :)    :)   :)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,08:16   

Quote (jeffox @ July 23 2008,13:56)
Louis wrote:

 
Quote
sweet little Eddie Gein over there?


FYI, "crazy ol' Eddie" lived about 2 1/2 hours east of where I am right now.  To this day, dropping his name within earshot of many Wisconsinites (/cheeseheads) will result a major conversational black hole.

Just so's ya know.    :)    :)   :)

I can't understand why, he was such a quiet, nice man.

I understand he was very attatched to his mother.....

Louis

ETA: Note to self: Halt progress on Wisconsin chapter of the Ed Gein Appreciation Club.

--------------
Bye.

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,08:23   

Louis wrote:

Quote
I can't understand why, he was such a quiet, nice man.


Well, except for milking the cows, he did do most of his work at night. . . . .

Quote
I understand he was very attatched to his mother.....


The old dear always did want to see him in the movies.

;)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,08:47   

Quote (jeffox @ July 23 2008,14:23)
Louis wrote:

Quote
I can't understand why, he was such a quiet, nice man.


Well, except for milking the cows, he did do most of his work at night. . . . .

Quote
I understand he was very attatched to his mother.....


The old dear always did want to see him in the movies.

;)

Very strict religious lady from what I heard.....

Dunno why I thought of that. ;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,09:15   

Quote (CeilingCat @ July 23 2008,04:20)
Quote
deadman_932: I don't give a shit about Bentley's tattoos or his World Wrestling Federation -style revivalist hucksterism, but *the idea that Dembski was so desperate and so fucking stupid as to bother to GO for Bentley's shit is telling,*
particularly when he was apparently already aware of the less-than-credible aspects of Bentley's little act.
Dembski is constitutionally unable to spot a con-man or a faker.  
Which explains a lot.

To his credit, he mentioned the experience on UD here  and he did say he thought this particular faker was probably a faker from the beginning.  Probably the tatoos.

Keep in mind Dembski also believes in the bible code and also believes that angels are as real as you and I.  

His favorite co-author believes Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of Jesus (Jesus v2.0).

Dembski is not just a con-man, he's a kook too.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
jeffox



Posts: 667
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,09:25   

Louis wrote:

Quote
Very strict religious lady from what I heard.....


Quite, from what I understand.  There are some good bios on the intertubes, eh.   Oh, and I would conclude that you have quite excellent hearing - what with Wisconsin and Britain being ohhhh, a few miles away from each other.   :)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,09:31   

Quote (jeffox @ July 23 2008,15:25)
Louis wrote:

Quote
Very strict religious lady from what I heard.....


Quite, from what I understand.  There are some good bios on the intertubes, eh.   Oh, and I would conclude that you have quite excellent hearing - what with Wisconsin and Britain being ohhhh, a few miles away from each other.   :)

Indeed so. And not only that, something of a time traveller!

Oh well, enough merriment. Relevance! I crave vague relevance! I feel sorry for Dembski. It can't be pleasant to be in his shoes. Or his cardigan for that matter. Desperation can drive people to some strange places. I hope his kid gets better.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,09:58   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 23 2008,09:15)
 
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 23 2008,04:20)
   
Quote
deadman_932: I don't give a shit about Bentley's tattoos or his World Wrestling Federation -style revivalist hucksterism, but *the idea that Dembski was so desperate and so fucking stupid as to bother to GO for Bentley's shit is telling,*
particularly when he was apparently already aware of the less-than-credible aspects of Bentley's little act.
Dembski is constitutionally unable to spot a con-man or a faker.  
Which explains a lot.

To his credit, he mentioned the experience on UD here  and he did say he thought this particular faker was probably a faker from the beginning.  Probably the tatoos.

Keep in mind Dembski also believes in the bible code and also believes that angels are as real as you and I.  

His favorite co-author believes Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of Jesus (Jesus v2.0).

Dembski is not just a con-man, he's a kook too.

A perfect example of crank magnetism. No wonder the word fits him. Dembski and UD were the inspiration for the term.

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I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,10:09   

What's worse is that he parades his 'open-mind' as a virtue that makes him superior to the likes of "Richard Dawkins, Michael Shermer, James Randi, and the skeptical community in general."

Unlike them he supported the fakir by going to his show and contributing.  As spammers know full well, you don't need many responses to make money.

Gullibility is not a virtue.

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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,13:40   

Hm, clearly I should have checked if Billy had written up his misadventure for the U-Dolts, so's I wouldn't be rehashing old tard.

The larger point is what others have noted: that Dembski's desire to believe in majick overrides his rationality.  

Nature deals his son a harsh hand. Billy feels like Job being tested. Yet suffering redeems man, Dembski writes in his .PDF (theodicy) on The Problem of Evil.

Yea, we are all sinners because of the fall -- despite the Bible saying (in at least 3 places) that the sins of the father will not be visited on their offspring. More cognitive dissonance for Billy.

But God is merciful! Billy seeks an intermediary to placate his angry Deity

So it's on to the mummery of a charlatan, family in tow, because reality is hard and majick has that lustrous allure.  

Comedy and tragedy all once again rolled in another Dembskian episode. I feel sorry for the kid, but I have little sympathy for Billy's view of the world.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,13:41   

Quote (Quidam @ July 23 2008,10:09)
Gullibility is not a virtue.

Nice line! I believe I will borrow that for a while...

I'll give it back later, okay?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,14:42   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 23 2008,08:15)
His favorite co-author believes Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of Jesus (Jesus v2.0).

You'd think Jesus V2.0.01 would be able to keep a helicopter flying


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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Assassinator



Posts: 479
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,14:48   

Quote (Quidam @ July 23 2008,14:42)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 23 2008,08:15)
His favorite co-author believes Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of Jesus (Jesus v2.0).

You'd think Jesus V2.0.01 would be able to keep a helicopter flying

Remember that Jesus 2.0 is still in beta or even just alpha stage, and not yet available for retail.

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,15:05   

Probably needs to be nailed to a tree to get the bugs out.

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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,16:39   

Dembski was pleased to learn he was a Chick Magnet.

Unfortunately for Dembski, though, he turned out to be a Jack Chick Magnet.

  
Marion Delgado



Posts: 89
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,16:41   

Quote (stevestory @ July 22 2008,11:38)
Davetard said:
 
Quote
Now get busy. I didn’t spend 25 years making networked computers into cheap household appliances so you can squander your time bashing creationists. I did it so you can process, correlate, and share the growing mountain of information needed to reverse-engineer the simplest cells (plus the money was really really good and it was fun too).


He claims credit for the desktop computer revolution, and also says he did it to advance the field of bioinformatics? Even at UD, who would possibly believe those lies?

stevestory:

DaveScot has incurable delusory randosis (also called delusory cleptosocialitis) it's a chronic condition not amenable to treatment.

The sufferer believes him or herself to be a heroic omniachieving genius surrounded by inferior socialist parasites. Because so many suffered from Nietzschean and even Hitlerian delusions, it was originally believed to be an organic condition caused by a spirochete like syphillis. With the advent of Objectivism, it turned up in epidemic proportions in people who had never had sexual or any other sort of physical contact with other human beings, and was formally named and classified as a mental illness with the DSM III.

Narcissistic confabulation is a tell-tale. Also look for incoherent swaggering.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,17:42   

Quote (Marion Delgado @ July 23 2008,14:41)
With the advent of Objectivism, it turned up in epidemic proportions in people who had never had sexual or any other sort of physical contact with other human beings, and was formally named and classified as a mental illness with the DSM III.

Expect a new epidemic if Atlas Shrugged gets made with Angelina Jolie in the role of Dagny Taggart.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1995
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,00:06   

Quote (jeffox @ July 23 2008,07:56)
Louis wrote:

 
Quote
sweet little Eddie Gein over there?


FYI, "crazy ol' Eddie" lived about 2 1/2 hours east of where I am right now.  To this day, dropping his name within earshot of many Wisconsinites (/cheeseheads) will result a major conversational black hole.

Just so's ya know.    :)    :)   :)

Gotcha beat.  He lived 20 minutes south of my home town - in the town my mother was born in.  I was in grade school at the time and we innocent little tykes took it really hard.  

Typical joke:
"Did you hear about the new book by Ed Gein?"  
"No.  What's it called?"  
"How to get ahead."

It was years later that I found that my parents were checking to see if Mom's mother's grave was one of those desecrated.  It wasn't.  Nothing interesting ever happens in my family.

Meanwhile, the Gein tradition lives on in Wisconsin.

My favorite line in the above link: "Police say the three men, carrying shovels, a crowbar and a box of condoms..."

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...after reviewing the arguments, I’m inclined to believe that the critics of ENCODE’s bold claim were mostly right, and that the proportion of our genome which is functional is probably between 10 and 20%.  --Vincent Torley, uncommondescent.com 1/1/2016

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,01:39   

Quote (Texas Teach @ July 22 2008,13:16)
Quote (stevestory @ July 22 2008,11:10)
I went back and read what Davetard said and it's worse than I knew:
   
Quote
The Altenberg 16 are just beginning to realize how vast is the scope of epigenetic information.


He doesn't just think he knows more about epigenetics than a biology grad student, he thinks he knows more about epigenetics than 16 of the world's best biologists. That's not just dense. That's Uncommonly Dense™.

Well, how many of them read hard science fiction and subscribe to have their wives subscribe to Scientific American?

If anyone wants to read about epigenetics from a biology expert's point of view, PZ has a good discussion here. About 5 years ago when I first heard about epigenetics via methylation of DNA it really surprised me. Very interesting stuff.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,01:45   

Quote (dheddle @ July 22 2008,16:12)
I like BINGO too, but this card is a loser!




I have to add my compliments on this too. That card is definitely Post of the Week of the Day. Kudos Dave.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,01:53   

Quote
21 July 2008
PZ Myers and Abbie Smith - An Hour of No Cursing!
DaveScot

PZ Myers and Abbie Smith have an hour-long video conference here. A few surprising things, not the least of which is neither of them thought to bolster their points with the cussing that characterizes their blogs.


Oh lordy! Abbie said cuss words! I believe I'm comin' down with tha vapohs!!!!!!!

Hey Dave--Abbie's problem isn't with cussing. It's her deranged lack of apostrophes. Get with the program, numbnuts.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,01:56   

I've said this before, but while Heddle's amateur philosophy is annoying, when it comes to Dembski and the pretentions of ID, Dave can really twist the knife.

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,02:04   

Quote (stevestory @ July 24 2008,13:53)
Quote
21 July 2008
PZ Myers and Abbie Smith - An Hour of No Cursing!
DaveScot

PZ Myers and Abbie Smith have an hour-long video conference here. A few surprising things, not the least of which is neither of them thought to bolster their points with the cussing that characterizes their blogs.


Oh lordy! Abbie said cuss words! I believe I'm comin' down with tha vapohs!!!!!!!

Hey Dave--Abbie's problem isn't with cussing. It's her deranged lack of apostrophes. Get with the program, numbnuts.

Of course Dave has never been known to utter an unclean word.

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,12:25   

Oh no, truckloads of Brites photos lab equipment will have to be moved back to campus.

Edited for typos.

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Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
themartu



Posts: 28
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,12:27   

I now know where Denyse gets her inspiration from:

Peacocks

Quote
Their problem is most likely this: Once we confess that the obvious flim flam is not science, we will inevitably go on to address other questionable items, like the peacock’s tale and the Monarch-Viceroy butterfly mimicry puzzle.


She is listening to Peacock stories, silly.

(Yes typos are common, we all make them, and pointing them out isn't clever)

The post is a waste of server space but the big thing is there is no mention of buy my book! Amazing.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,13:10   

Quote (dheddle @ July 24 2008,10:25)
Oh no, truckloads of Brites photos lab equipment will have to be moved back to campus.

Edited for typos.

I think Bill is hoping the departure of Lilley means he'll get his foot back in the door. Or in the cafeteria, as it were.

Of course, at one point Bill thought that Bill O'Reilly was going to come to his rescue as well.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
American Saddlebred



Posts: 111
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,13:53   

My mother was the accountant for the owner of the apartment complex where Dahmer lived.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,14:45   

I hope at some point someone gives them a lab and funding for a year. Then they wont have *that* excuse. In Dembski's recent musings, he seems to suggest that he wants them thar younguns to do the "ID science", presumably because he doesn't have a clue where to go with it. No mechanisms, no hypothesis, only "if not chance and necessity, then design"

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,14:56   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 24 2008,14:45)
I hope at some point someone gives them a lab and funding for a year. Then they wont have *that* excuse. In Dembski's recent musings, he seems to suggest that he wants them thar younguns to do the "ID science", presumably because he doesn't have a clue where to go with it. No mechanisms, no hypothesis, only "if not chance and necessity, then design"

Fit the lab out with cameras and it'd pay for itself.

Who stays? Who goes?

I'd pay hard $$ to be a fly on the wall on that first meeting on day one. Web-cam tard! It's about time.

So, anybody got any, ideas? Stuff is complex...

I bet they'd find themselves making and drinking alot of tea...

Funny to see you in the kitchen again! Our meetings must be intelligently designed chortle!

Then the infighting starts!

etc.

Imagine the sweaters they'd have on under the lab coats!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,15:34   

The lab should be in Portmeirion / the island...



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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,16:54   

Quote (bystander @ July 24 2008,02:04)
Of course Dave has never been known to utter an unclean word.

Dave is famous for saying "when in Rome, do as the Romans do.."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22when+in+rome%22+davescot

I wish he'd visited it in ye olde times..


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Rome

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,16:59   

Now Dennis is an expert on university politics as well as cruelty to language.

I vaguely recall that Lilley's tenure denials were something of a reaction to higher levels of tenure acceptances in prior years, a reversion to the mean.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,17:13   

Ackademic Freedum means everyone must gets tenyear.

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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,17:52   

Quote
Baylor President Lilley Fired
William Dembski

This just in from Christianity Today. Lilley, you will recall, expelled Robert Marks’s Evolutionary Informatics Lab from Baylor (for that story, go here).

July 24, 2008 9:57AM
President of Baylor University Fired
John Lilley had angered alumni, faculty, and others with tenure decisions...

Careful WAD - refrain from gloating. That leads to notpologies.

Plus now you two have something in common. Call him for a beer.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1191
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 24 2008,18:10   

Way back in 1999, Dr. Dr. Dembski was awarded a $100,000 grant by the Templeton Foundation to write a book to be called Being as Communion: The Science and Metaphysics of Information.  After publishing No Free Lunch in 2002, Dembski asked the foundation for a second installment of the grant, but was told that NFL didn't meet the expectations of his original grant application.  You can read about it here from an authoritative source.  Dembski still hasn't produced the book.

The reason I bring this up is that last December I