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Date: 2002/05/06 11:21:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Howdy,

The (briefly) available recordings of the presentations were interesting.  I would very much like to contrast the oral presentations to the published positions.  Do you (or anyone else) know how to get transcripts?  The ARN folks (PLA etc...) seem to have them, but seem disinclined to sharee them with evilutionists.

Date: 2002/05/25 15:52:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Saddly, the ARN crash denied the opportunity to quote Dembski calling his critics "leftists."  It was in the thread called something like "Removing hypotheticals" or some such.

Date: 2002/05/29 17:18:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
These are some of the articles I have in my abiogensis bibliography.  I have mentioned to
Ian the notion of a collaboration.  While I am waiting for his reply, I am working on an
annotated bibliography.  Articles marke with an * are referenced in Wells’ Icons ...

*Castresana, Jose, Matti Saraste
1995 “Evolution of energetic metabolism: the respiration-early hypothesis” Trends in
Biochemical Science 20:443-448

Dismukes, G. C., V. V. Klimov, S. V. Baranov, Yu. N. Kozlov, J. DasGupta, A.
Tyryshkin.
2001 “The Origin of Atmospheric Oxygen on Earth: The Innovation of Oxygenic
Photosynthesis”  PNAS-USA vl 98 no. 5: 2170-2175

Kasting, J.F.
1993 “Algae and oxygen in Earth's ancient atmosphere” (Tech. Comment) and B.
Runnegar “Responce to Kasting.” Science 259: 835.

Kolber, Z. S., C. L. Van Dover, R. A. Niederman, P. G. Kalkowski
2000 Bacterial photosynthesis in surface waters of the open ocean” letters Nature
v.407:177-179

Olendzenski, Lorraine, Olga Zhaxybayeva, J. Peter Gogarten
2000 “How Much Did Horizontal Gene Transfer Contribute to Early Evolution?:
Quantifying Archaeal Genes in Two Bacterial Lineages ” (Abstract) General Meeting of
the NASA Astrobiology Institute.

*Schwartz, Robert M., Margret O. Dayhoff
1978  “Origins of Prokaryotes, Eukaryotes, Mitochondria, and Chloroplasts” Science Vol
199 395-403

Date: 2002/09/06 16:08:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The arrest was reported at Cummings St.  The arrest report indicated 100 Cummings, but this may be an error.  100 Cummings Rd is owned by WEAVER, BARRY D JR, apparently unrelated.   FAITH FELLOWSHIP BAPTIST CHURCH,  HOVIND KENT TRUSTEE, owns 2 lots on Cummings Rd 21, and 23.

Dr. Dino also owns quite a bit of N PALAFOX HWY, where JEWELL, PAUL DAVID (Witness, employee, and Son in law?) just happens to live; listed as 5270 N PALAFOX ST PENSACOLA in the arrest report.

Date: 2002/10/11 17:19:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the update.

Date: 2002/12/21 00:03:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
SLP, "Perhaps it is that folks with super-high IQs also get a dose of instability/paranoia/various other complexes to go along with it."

My sense is that people that used to be called "severely intelligent” (say the 4+ standard deviations above average group) have only the typical range and incidence  of mental illness.  They tend, in my experience, to view symbols as real a bit easier than most.  My brother for example views money as the way to keep score in what he sees as a game.  And so he has amassed a very high score.  But this is common enough, and well accepted as normal.  

Many severely intelligent children become very frustrated with teachers and can become disciplinary problems.  They also can become angry when other children change “rules” in play activities directly to prevent the brighter child from always winning.  This may account for something that I have often seen; the severely intelligent generally find that whatever they are currently interested in is totally compelling to them.  The interests and concerns of others are only grudgingly attended, if at all.

Mentally ill people with very high intelligence can be much more visible than those who are less bright, as they are less likely to become jailed or hospitalized.



Date: 2002/12/22 01:01:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
For the last few months the only reason to look in on ARN at all was to watch the meltdown.

Honestly, is there a single interesting scientific position that any IDiot has ever offered on the ARN board?  

A bit over a year ago, I was taken in by an argument about Wells' Icons Chapter 2 about the oxidation state of the Hadean/Archaen and the origin of life.  1400 journal pages, 8 books and a year later, I have learned that neither DNAUnion or Mike Gene knew what they were talking about. (Nor does Wells)  

I learned nothing at all from DNAUnion, Mike Gene or Wells, other than they are too incompetent to even  read the freely available literature.  (OK, so it wasn't free.  But I would say that I spent less than $500 on books, copying and journal fees.  Well, less than $600)

Date: 2002/12/26 18:14:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am having a weird case of deja vu.  The embryonic surfperch ( Embiotocidae ) have huge fins which are bright red with blood.  These have long been recognised to function in the exchange of nutrients and gases with the mother.

Date: 2003/01/04 12:58:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Welcome, and thanks for the reference.

Date: 2003/01/09 11:09:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
There is a recent article that you may have seen that actually present a case that god-of-the-gaps are acceptable.  

Larmer R. (2002) "Is there anything wrong with 'God of the Gaps' reasoning?", International Journal for Philosophy of Religion, 52:129-142

True to the breed, Larmer apes Dembski claiming that forensic and archaeological sciences use this type of argument.

Date: 2003/01/12 14:36:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for tracking this.  Personally, I suspect that Hovind's account (shorn of self congratulation/self pity) is very likely accurate.

Domestic scenes are always very emotionally charged, and on the edge of violence.

Date: 2003/01/15 01:25:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It has long been clear to me that the ID "argument" is unsupportable in an environment of open inquiry.  They must either hide behind "moderation," or abandon any pretence of being scientific and go for purely political.  Baptist YECs are more honest.

That said, it ought to be naively obvious that genetic novelty may be maladaptive under one set of environmental and adaptive under another.  Thus, under conditions of a dynamic environment, the contribution of a genetic novelty to an organism’s fitness will occasionally shift from neutral or even mildly negative to positive or even strongly positive.

I have yet to see any way that the “front loading” argument can be distinguished from the instance of an environmental change resulting in improved fitness for some organism.  The millions of extinction events also demonstrate the reverse condition.  If there was ever any question in my mind as to the possible validity of “front loading” it would perish on the rocks of extinction.

The last time I engaged Nelson Alonso in a discussion (almost a year ago on ARN), I found that he was plagiarizing text from a 7th Day Adventist site.  What locked the case was that the SDA text had miss referenced an original article in Nature, missing identifiying the author's name and making a page number error dutifully copied by Nelson.  Nor did the original Nature article even support the SDA/Alonso argument.  I would not have bothered to run a search engin check if I had not first made an effort to locate the original 1950s Nature article as referenced by the SDA/Alonso argument.  As SDAs are the source of our 20th C YEC affliction, I would deduce from Nelson's parroting of their text as indicative of a YEC perspective.

Date: 2003/01/15 01:52:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Heh.  Thanks for the link.

Date: 2003/01/19 16:33:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Let me recommend The Things We Doby Gary Cziko.  His chapter 7, The evolution of Animal Behavior is particularly apt.  I think that you will find considerable support for some of your thoughts posted above.

The relevant question raised by Cziko is why do we think that we think differently from animals?  The error that the Intellegent design creationists make, and many of their critics, is the assumption that human behavior is categorically different from nonhumans.

Date: 2003/01/20 18:56:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Chimps also perform more like humans on other barrior tests, as well as their ability to recognize themselves in mirrors.

Date: 2003/01/22 01:16:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the link.  I am too revolted to comment tonight.

Date: 2003/01/22 14:42:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Impressive bio.  Has he faced off with Gish or other creatos in a packed (hostile) audience before?

As you know, Gish has made a living at "winning" aginst better informed people in front of large audiences.

Date: 2003/01/23 20:16:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Should be a good show.  I would like to make it, but I am less than sure.

Date: 2003/01/25 13:40:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks Wesley.  I wish I could have gone, but all in all it was best that I sayed put last night.

I look forward to further instalments

Date: 2003/02/10 13:25:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the news.  

We need seminars for state lawmakers too.  Does NCSE have any programs that you have attended?  I'll check their web site.

Date: 2003/02/12 13:24:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the referances.

You might also like to look at:

Woese, Carl
1998 “The universal ancestor” PNAS Vol. 95, Issue 12, 6854-6859, June 9

Woese, Carl
2002 “On the evolution of Cells” PNAS Vol. 99 13:8742-8747, June 25

I am sorry that I don't have time today to give a preview.

Date: 2003/02/15 16:39:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Some of their finds are to be evaluated at the Black Hills Institute for Geological Research, Inc.  The Black Hills folks have long been controversial for their illegal excavations, and commercial practices (they were the outfit that sold the T. rex known as "Sue".)

It is true that many paleontologists buy and sell fossils, but this is rarely their principle source of support.  A fun book on the early years of American paleontology is "The Bone Wars."

Date: 2003/02/15 16:40:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
...



Date: 2003/02/19 17:14:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"Marine Biologist-Filmmaker Stephen Lawler will present the Bigger Picture Foundation's most popular 'discovery event' - a spectacular and insightful 8-hour live animated multimedia seminar, "ORIGINS: The Bigger Picture" at a local church in the San Francisco Bay Area."

Scrapping the Barrel

Date: 2003/02/22 15:42:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Here is another:
SCIENTIFIC EXPLANATION OF GEOCENTRICITY

and another:

200001NL -- The Creation Science Association For Mid-America (CSA)



Date: 2003/04/07 18:46:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Great material as always.

Quote
"I think that people have a kind of mystical notion about computer models, that if the model is "more complex than I can understand" then it is equivalent to "they modelled the world in all necessary detail inside the computer!!".  This is particularly true if someone presents a nice animation as the output.   This is not the case.  All computer models are gross simplifications, and IMO there is no particular hard-and-fast distinction between a theoretical model where calculations are done with a computer and a computer simulation where there is some attempt to perform a simulation with random inputs and explicit time-steps.  It is, to plagiarize from Darwin, a difference of degree, not of kind."


This is a very good point.

I hope that you will boil this thread down to a reply to Berlinski sent to Commentary, and with either a TD FAQ link, or at least a link to this thread.

Please!  

PleasePleasePleasePlease

Date: 2003/04/28 12:45:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Nice work.

Date: 2003/05/17 18:37:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I gotta say that that last post made me a bit unsettled.

"Der ar' tings man is not ment to know, Herr Doctor!  Der villagers might riot!"

Date: 2003/08/14 14:37:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
There are a couple more letters published as well.

Date: 2003/08/23 13:34:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the link to West's essay.

Date: 2003/09/01 19:45:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks Wesley

Date: 2003/11/30 21:39:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Odd.  All the Dembski critiques by Sobel seem to have been taken off line.



Date: 2005/01/17 14:04:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Great job taking the DI flack apart.

Date: 2005/03/20 14:41:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Even Buell doesn’t recommend the book.

“If they would have contacted me, I would not have encouraged the people in Dover to use it because of other tools that are more up-to-date,” he said. “The idea of intelligent design and the evidence that supports it has gotten extraordinarily more strong than when it was originally printed.”

As for the criticisms that the book misrepresents the theory of evolution, Buell disagreed. He said the main point is valid — that the theory of evolution’s basic principal of life evolving through natural selection and genetic mutation isn’t possible.

“The authors and we feel those are the most powerful arguments,” he said.

John West of the Seattle-based Discovery Institute, which is now at the forefront of the intelligent-design movement, said his organization didn’t have anything to do with “Pandas” and had little to say about it.from Furor breathes new life into aging ‘Pandas’



I think we can see the DI response in general here to the probable pending loss in Dover: ~~The Dover result only related to using "Of Pandas and People" and can not be generalized beyond that to the teaching of ID.  "Of Pandas and People" was a very dated book, even the publisher acknowledged is no longer representitive of the vibrant research sucksesses of Intellignent Design.~~ Or words to that effect.



Date: 2005/03/21 01:06:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Howdy,  That would be nice of you, but they would probably think that you had rocks in your head.

Date: 2005/03/21 15:42:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, joe.  At least your theory makes sense.  ;)

Date: 2005/03/23 11:06:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
BTW, I have been meaning to congratulate Lenny, nad his group for a great idea.

Oh, I just did.

Anyway, congratulations again.

Gary

Date: 2005/04/07 19:02:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have copies of;

"Why Intelligent Design Fails;  A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism "


"Creationism's Trojan Horse "

that I am happy to part with.

Should I send them directly to Dover, or to you?

Date: 2005/04/17 13:27:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I sent the following to the newspaper "letters to the editor" and to the reporters Lenny suggested:


To the Editors:


I donated two books, "Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism," and "Creationism's Trojan Horse" to the Dover High School Library, clearly labeled on the envelope as "Library Book Donations."


The package was delivered at 9:39 am on April 14, 2005 in DOVER, PA 17315.

The package was signed for by G. Brower.


I am particularly happy to have donated these books directly to the Dover High School library as I am one of the contributing authors of the first, an admirer of the second, and have closely followed the creationist threat to science education in Dover schools.


Dr. Gary S. Hurd
Dana Point, CA

Date: 2005/12/03 19:55:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well stated, Wes.  You have relieved some of my concern.

Date: 2006/06/21 13:39:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
One "crandaddy" posted at UncommonDescent  couple of weeks ago, the following sillyness: "The
Dilemma of Joe the Archaeologist."


Since it mentioned archaeology as a source of support for IDiocy, I took a closer look.  

crandaddy used two images,

Image #1

and

 Image #2

crandaddy placed these images into an unlikely scenario of an archaeologist, Joe, wandering off into the Andes Mountains looking for some mega-site to excavate.  Joe is grant funded, is associated with a major university, and has two work crews.  These teams produced the two photos above, and "Joe" has the dilemma of chosing where to dig.

The first image is to be taken by a naive observer as the product of natural events and thus "less designed" than the other.  This is therefore intuitive "proof" that there is "design" that "design" is easy to recognize and that this is taken to be evidence of God. (This last bit is based on the open admission by all principle IDiot "theorists" that their
"Designer's" real name is Yahweh).  

First, let's clarify a few trivial points; The first image is from some rocks in Simi Valley California, the second image is of an Olmec sculpture currently in Villahemosa,Tabasco Mex. and was originally excavated at the early Olmec site of La Venta.  Another trivial point is that I have conducted research at all of these locations.*  So for openers, Joe needs a new job, becasue he will be fired for not knowing whether he is in California, Mexico, or somewhere over the rainbow.  At least we know he is not in Kansas, because many of the State School Board there believe ID BS.

But, crandaddy has illuminated a few knobs on the IDista's noggin' for us.  First, there is the notion that that any fool can get lots of grant money.  Because we also know that "Joe" is a scientist and a university associate, and that grants come from poor tax payers we "know" that intellectual scientists (who are actually all fools) are all ripping-off the poor tax payer.  

But more interesting is that here in California, and probably all over the world, there are natural, unmodified rock formations which are though to have some resemblance to some human feature.  Many are taken to resemble human genitals and they are worshipped as aids to fertility.  These sorts of sites are well attested in ethnography (eg. "Ceremonial Fertility Sites in Southern California." Charlotte McGowan, 1982 San Diego museum of Man).
 
For example, maybe davescot can recall some of his photographic inspired sexual  fantasies and identify this image?



This is a basic error of IDiots: There is no difficulty in finding patterns and inventing associations.  All cognizant people do this all the time.  Science has the more difficult task of rejecting false patterns and spurious associations.  


* I logged-in over at UD to point this out in two posts.  The first substantive post was blocked and the second posted with a "spell flame" from the ever pathetic davescot.  Oh well, as Bill Demski is so fond of saying, "Pearls before Swine ..."  Except Dembski needs to offer retractions, and I don't.

Date: 2006/12/07 15:57:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The best book for general readers currently available is still;

Iris Fry,
2000 "The Emergence of Life on Earth: A Historical and Scientific Overview" Rutgers University Press

It really needs to be updated because the last 7 years have been more productive for OOL than the prior 20.

Old earth creationists Rana and Ross have a book out on OOL.  I have a critical review in the stack which should be published by NCSE in a month or two.  R&R set as one of their goals to update "The Mystery of Life’s Origin" (1984).  They needn't have bothered.



Date: 2006/12/12 12:26:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
If you have not looked at this online resource, I think that you should.



Date: 2006/12/13 11:48:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote="Rev Dr" Lenny Flank,Dec. 13 2006,06:56]
Quote (skeptic @ Dec. 12 2006,22:24)

Anyone who thinks, in the 21st century, that "flying saucers come from the Devil", is simply not worth taking seriously.

I think it's just a matter of time before the anti-evolutioners start publishing new updated versions of the Malleus Maleficarum, telling us how to detect and punish, uh, witches.

They are utterly nutty, all.

Yes, but we cannot let them play with matches.  :O

Date: 2006/12/13 16:05:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I watched the flash vid, and it was great!  Most of the better put-down lines from the decision; getting to see the various "Darwinist fanatics" (I am SO jealous).  Who was the woman in the hat?

Date: 2006/12/13 17:16:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Barbara is the 6th from the left, in the opening segment she is behind Jones's right shoulder.  The last photo on the right is someone I don't recognize.  The hat with the danggling store tag is from Minnie Pearl's "Grand ol' Opery" character.

So, I think it is Dawkins, Scott, ???, Miller, ???, Forrest, Dennett, Elsberry (hipp hip ...) and then ???.

The two men seem familiar but I can't place their names.  Nick should be up there too.

Date: 2006/12/18 18:04:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
(Scott)

There once was a judge in ol’ Dover…

(tribune7)Who was certain he was related to Rover,

So he saw his chance

Dropped his pants

And when the ACLU arrived, bent over.

Date: 2006/12/21 19:54:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Southern California- currently in Dana Point about 3 blocks from the ocean.  I lived for 5 years (off and on) in Yucatan, Mexico, and for about 6 years in Augusta, Ga (AKA Disgusta) where I taught at the Medical College of Georgia.

As far as anyone can determine, 18th century immigrants from Scotland and France married into various combinations with some Native Americans for seasoning.

Date: 2006/12/21 19:58:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Steviepinhead @ Dec. 21 2006,19:05)
There's definitely a Central Valley thing resonating here too.  *koff koff*  OK, enough with the heat, dust, and pesticides, already!

Don't forget Valley Fever!  I had it once when I worked on a cotton farm in Bakersfield.

Date: 2006/12/26 23:32:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I don't really see this thread going very far, but you might enjoy my response to Jonathan Sarfati regarding Imai et al (1999) “Boiled Creationist with a Side of Hexaglycine: Sarfati on Imai et al. (1999)."

Date: 2006/12/27 00:15:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 27 2006,00:02)
Quote (jujuquisp @ Dec. 26 2006,11:25)
My New Year's Resolution® is going to be:

1) Avoid anger at blatant stupidity posted on UD.
2) Not allow UD to have any more effect on my personal life and marriage.
3) Less abortions in our family.
4) Less communism.
5) Try to befriend DaveScot, Dumbski, and Morphodyke rather than shun and despise them.

6) Burn fewer churches
7) Spread less Ebola.

Compromiser!

Date: 2006/12/27 00:43:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Howdy Wes,

How goes the TO battle?  I wonder when the feedback might come back online?  I should enjoy the respite, but I pathologically miss it.

Gary

Date: 2006/12/30 01:29:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
ya see?  I just refuse to try to explain this any more.  OOL demands a solid grasp of geochemistry, and biochemistry.  Plus, you had better do some solid astrochemistry as well.

OOL is far more difficult than the standard creationist crap.  It is much more difficult in the first place, and then you must be ready to deal with the creationist lies and blunders.  I have a 35 page bibliography (and growing) and I have had to limit my attention to areas that I think will be most productive.  

It is just too much!

This is how ID really started.  With Thaxton, C. B., Walter L. Bradley, R. L. Olsen
1984 The Mystery of Life’s Origin.  New York: Philosophical Library.

It was not Johnson, Behe, or Dembski.



Date: 2006/12/30 20:08:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Iris Fry,
2000 "The Emergence of Life on Earth: A Historical and Scientific Overview" Rutgers University Press

This is still the best single cover book available.  This is sad actually, because there is a huge amount of new work that needs to be presented to general readers.

(Hazen has too many personal issues that he lets into his book).  

Shapiro has made a career out of being negative.  Every ship needs an anchor, and Shapiro is the anchor for OOL. That is not for me.

I am in the process of writing up some material, and I have descided to use it as a doctoral proposal.

No need to tell me- I think that it is very weird too: GREs, orals, at my age.  I must be sick. Maybe I'll recover.  But if I am to personally follow this, I need a lab and graduate students have access to labs.



Date: 2007/01/01 17:50:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, like Ed insists, you are either on his side or the 'other side.'  

What ever it takes to shore-up lack of readers, I guess.

Date: 2007/01/03 17:50:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Re: Scaly Friends

The most dumb lucky snake experience I ever had was in southern Yucatan.  I was walking along and saw three men with machetes drawn surrounding a bush.  I walked up and asked if there was a snake in the bush.  (I was in the town of Bacalar, and I was expecting three gringa herpetologists to visit.  I had met them in Ticul and we had had some fun.  I was a herp turned anthro guy).  The locals said yes, there was a deadly snake in the bush.  Locals always say that all snakes are deadly, so I discounted their warning. I saw a bit of it and its head.  I took my hat and waved it in front of the snake, and when it struck at my hat I grabbed the little cutie.  

It was a ferdelance about 3 feet long (a young'n).

I kept it for 3 or 4 days, but the chicas never showed up.  Luck can only last so long.

Date: 2007/01/03 18:05:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Re: Big Kitty

I worked on a mountain lion tagging/tracking project in Orange County Ca.  We were training two puppies as lion dogs.  On their first time to run with the three adults (two dogs and their mam) the pack gave up the chase except for the puppies.  They worked another hour and treed the cat!  

We had been so ticked off that these two stupid puppies were still running until we heard them switch to a "cat in the tree" yip.  The adults picked up their ears and tore off.  We only had radio collars on the two dogs, so it really helped find the tree et al.

Date: 2007/01/04 14:08:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have read it through once, and will probably make a second pass.  I am not ready to make much about it other than to note that Yockey knows much more about physics and math than about chemistry or biology.  However, he thinks that there is not real difference between math and biology therefore he is (in his imagination) an expert in biology and biochemistry.



Date: 2007/01/10 11:50:12, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I noted that some of the UD regulars had started to direct questions to Febble.  Since davetard cannot stand anyone get attention other than his tardness, let alone showing him to be a tard, banning was immeadiate.

Welcome, Febble.

Date: 2007/01/10 13:43:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Der Groppingfurer ran aginst Davis claiming that Davis has collected "special interest money" and was going to put the State into debt.

The bastard has broken the money collection record of Davis (collecting millions from such special interests like state contractors and the state prison guard union for example), and his spending plans will backrupt the state.

All his policies have been recycled from Pete Wilson, and now he has flipped into the Kennedy school of deficit spending.

Date: 2007/01/10 17:52:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (jujuquisp @ Jan. 10 2007,16:43)
Bebbo:
 
Quote
Well, I've got a certified IQ of 154 (on the Cattell scale) but I've never bragged about it like Dave does with his IQ.


You had better quit braggin', Bebbo, or we'll have to eviscerate you, too.  I could tell you what my IQ is, but then I'd have to kill you.  Let this be a warning.

Heheh

As I recall mentioned here, D'tard computed an IQ score based on SAT scores he recieved around age 25.  If being abnormally intelligent lends credability, I would point out to 'tardboy that my IQ (based on my SAT scores taken at 17 YoA) yield a "computed IQ" considerably higher than his.  I did even better than that on the WAIS when I was drunk.  Oh, and I earned a PhD before I was 25.  So 'tardboy, abandon creationism RIGHT NOW!

This is an illustration of the false argument that D'tard exemplifies which is a minor variation on argument from authority.  Actually the most intelligent person I have ever met was an illiterate peasant in a mud hut in a Mexican village.  True genius; he had independently invented the experiment, and had heard of writing and invented his own script.

Febble: I would be interested in a seperate discussion on the notion of intelligence and "materialism."  If you would be interested, we could start a seperate thread- this one is for the abuse of UncommonDescent.

Date: 2007/01/10 20:18:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
We know that language alters neuroarchitecture. We know that learning alters neuroarchitecture. We know that CVAs destroy significant parts of the brain, and that learning/therapy may alter neuroarchitecture leading to (partial) recovery.

Some people make the observation that "learning" and "language" are not material. They are concepts that can be transmitted.

This observatrion is totally false.

There is no non-material way that concepts are transmitted. The voice must move air molecules in a patterned wave which impacts the ear and then promotes an electochemical reaction in the brain which alters the structure of the brain itself. The mechanical, or electro-mecanical process of writing stimulates the eyes in a similar manner. There is no non-material way that conceptual information can be broadcast, the neuroarchitecture of the brain and the extremities must act electrochemically in order for thought to even occur.

However, note that concepts so transmitted- language, and written language being the most profound forms- alter neuroarchitecture! That even personal contemplation alters neuroachitecture is self evident. We are self programming, open source, cognitive machines. This "self programming" is my notion of "free will." We humans and a few other mammals have the ability (I think neuro complexity) to have a sense of self. We humans are also capable/vulnerable of/to disassocitive states. Disassocitive states can be induced by trance or drugs or neruopathology, and are I believe the source of "spiritual" experiences.

In the book review written by Dembski, linked by Febble, there are several obvious errors.  The largest I see is the notion that there is a non-material cognition, his God in fact.  Since it is critical for Dembski to preserve this idea, it is also trivial for him to project its existance to the question of the "mind/body" problem.  He needs God to exist, so he needs a non-material "mind" divorced from the messy wetness of the brain.

When making bold pronouncements such as the above, one usually adds references.  Here are some;

1984    "Manifestations of Possession in Novel Ecological Contexts," G. S. Hurd, E. M. Pattison. in Ecological Models in Clinical and Community Mental Health, W.A. O'Connor and B. Lubin (ed.s).  John Wiley & Sons: New York.

1985    "Trance and Possession States," E. M. Pattison, Joel Kahan, G. Hurd. In Handbook of Altered States of Consciousness.  B. B. Walman and M. Ullman (ed.s) New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold.
       
1985    "Superstition,"  G. S. Hurd. In Baker's Encyclopedia of Psychology. David Brenner (ed.) Baker Book House, Grand Rapids.

Date: 2007/01/11 17:21:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I put this together almost 2 years ago, and it need to be updated.  But, I think that you can still get a quick start on the relevant literature in primary journals.

Darwin's first edition of The Origin of Species made no particular mention of the origin of life. He does make some general observations in the conclusion of the sixth edition published in 1872. He writes,
 
Quote
"I believe that animals are descended from at most only four or five progenitors, and plants from an equal or lesser number.

Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants are descended from some one prototype. But analogy may be a deceitful guide.  Nevertheless all living things have much in common, in their chemical composition, their cellular structure, their laws of growth, and their liability to injurious influences."

And,
 
Quote
"No doubt it is possible, as Mr. G.H. Lewes has urged, that at the first commencement of life many different forms were evolved; but if so, we may conclude that only a very few have left modified descendants."

And a bit later, "Authors of the highest eminence seem to be fully satisfied with the view that each species has been independently created. To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes, like those determining the birth and death of the individual. When I view all beings not as special creations, but as the lineal descendants of some few beings which lived long before the first bed of the Cambrian system was deposited, they seem to me to become ennobled."


The final sentence in the first edition, "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved." was slightly modified in the Sixth to clearly indicate that the "Creator" was responsible for the origin of life. Some scholarly studies claim that Darwin regretted making this concession to his publishers.

The general interest books on the origin of life (OOL) typically start with a lengthy discussion of the historical theories of life. Beginning with the Greeks and working our way toward the present, there are three most significant events: the invention of the microscope, the synthesis of urea, and the experiment by Pasteur in 1862.

All the early thought on the origin of life can be reduced to a theory of spontaneous generation of life, or the creation of life by supernatural external agency. The invention, and improvements to the microscope between 1590 and 1674 CE profoundly changed mankind's conception of life and its complexity. This seemed to many as support for the spontaneous generation of life notion, as these microscopic life forms were thought as the simple "seed" for latter complex life. Anton van Leeuwenhoek's discovery of sperm also added to this "support" for the spontaneous generation theory.

There was also the thought that the organic "stuff" of life was completely different from "inorganic" or mineral matter. Known as "vitalism," this concept was shown to be false by Wühler in 1832 when he made urea, a "live" compound, from inorganic stock chemicals.

The most popular argument that creationists like to cite against results from modern origin of life research is that Pasteur demonstrated that the "spontaneous generation" theory was invalid. However, we should be quite clear that the Pasteur experiments showed that complex life forms do not form spontaneously. They did not address the origin of life as we currently understand the concept.

The growing interest in the search for extra-terrestrial life as fueled more productive research on OOL in the last 15 years than has ever been done in history. The Emergence of Life on Earth: A Historical and Scientific Overview by Iris Fry, (2000 Rutgers University Press), is the best general reader book available on the topic. Even though it is only 5 years old, a second edition is warrented to bring her presentation up to date.

There are quite a list of specifics that go into origin of life research, and very few research groups go far with more than a few. Just to list the key areas as I see them:

1) Composition of the Hadean/early Archean atmosphere.

The key reference(s) here is:

Genda, Hidenori & Abe, Yutaka
2003 “Survival of a proto-atmosphere through the stage of giant impacts: the mechanical aspects" Icarus 164, 149-162 (2003).

Holland, Heinrich D.
1984 The Chemical Evolution of the Atmoshphere and Oceans, Princeton Series in Geochemistry Princeton University Press

Holland, Heinrich D.
1999 “When did the Earth’s atmosphere become oxic? A Reply." The Geochemical News #100: 20-22 (see Ohmoto 1997 )

Kasting, J. F., J. L. Siefert,
2002 “Life and the Evolution of Earth's Atmosphere" Science 296:1066

Pepin, R. O.
1997 Evolution of Earth's Noble Gases: Consequences of Assuming Hydrodynamic Loss Driven by Giant Impact Icarus 126, 148-156 (1997).

There are a few others, but anyone reading those above will get the basics. The result is that there was a reducing atmosphere, and ocean system with highly reducing oases. A recent paper

Rosing, Minik T. and Robert Frei
2003 U-rich Archaean sea-floor sediments from Greenland – indications of >3700 Ma oxygenic photosynthesis" Earth and Planetary Science Letters, online 6 December 03

presents data that suggest there were very early oxygenic life forms in marine basins that most likely (to me anyway) were wiped out.

So, with a reduced atmosphere and ocean system, a shallow, hot crust and a UV rich, "cold" sun, we can ask the next question which is,

2) What was the source for "organic" molecules?

The classic paper was of course Stanley Miller's 1953 paper

Miller, Stanley L.,
1953 “A Production of Amino Acids Under Possible Primitive Earth Conditions�? Science vol. 117:528-529

With a bit more information included in:

Miller, Stanley, Harold C. Urey
1959 “Organic Compound Synthesis on the Primitive Earth�? Science vol 139 Num 3370: 254-251

Miller showed that a very simple set up that mimicked some key asspects of the early Earth could rapidly produce amino acids, among other things.

This result has been one of the most often repeated (and confirmed) experiments I have ever encountered. In spite of this, creationists regularly claim that it is invalid. Jonathan Wells, a fellow of the creationist "Discovery Institute" claims to have refuted the Miller/Urey experiment (and all of what he called Darwinist "icons."

But, the atmosphere is not the only synthesis location. For example

Amend, J. P. , E. L. Shock
1998 “Energetics of Amino Acid Synthesis in Hydrothermal Ecosystems�? Science Volume 281, number 5383, Issue of 11 Sep , pp. 1659-1662.

Blank, J.G. Gregory H. Miller, Michael J. Ahrens, Randall E. Winans
2001 “Experimental shock chemistry of aqueous amino acid solutions and the cometary delivery of prebiotic compounds�? Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 31(1-2):15-51, Feb-Apr

Chyba, Christopher F., Paul J. Thomas, Leigh Brookshaw, Carl Sagan
1990 "Cometary Delivery of Organic Molecules to the Early Earth" Science Vol. 249:366-373

Engel, Michael H., Bartholomew Nagy,
1982 "Distribution and Enantiomeric Composition of Amino Acids in the Murchison Meteorite", Nature , 296, April 29, , p. 838.

Matthews CN.
1992 Hydrogen cyanide polymerization: a preferred cosmochemical pathway. J. Br. Interplanet Soc. 45(1):43-8

Schoonen, Martin A. A., Yong Xu
2001 “Nitrogen Reduction Under Hydrothrmal Vent Conditions: Implications for the Prebiotic Synthesis of C-H-O-N Compounds�? Astrobiology 1:133-142

So amino acids are easy and plentiful on a pre-life (abiotic) Earth.

But, we need more than just amino acids- sugars, nucleic acids, and lipids are also needed. I'll take those next.

Let's see.. I guess this is

2a) amino acids
2.b) sugars


Why do we need sugars? Well, the biggest reason is that without five carbon sugar our building life form can't make a "memory" like RNA or DNA. I'll get to the details later. First, where are the sugars?

Weber AL.
1997 Prebiotic amino acid thioester synthesis: thiol-dependent amino acid synthesis from formose substrates (formaldehyde and glycolaldehyde) and ammonia. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 28: 259-270.

{I know the title says "amino acid" but sugar is in there. Hint: formose is a kind of sugar. }

Cooper, George, Novelle Kimmich, Warren Belisle, Josh Sarinana, Katrina Brabham, Laurence Garrel
2001 Carbonaceous meteorites as a source of sugar-related organic compounds for the early Earth Nature 414, 879 - 883 (20 Dec 2001) Letters to Nature

Cody, George D., Nabil Z. Boctor, Timothy R. Filley, Robert M. Hazen, James H. Scott, Anurag Sharma, Hatten S. Yoder Jr.
2000 “Primordial Carbonylated Iron-Sulfur Compounds and the Synthesis of Pyruvate"  Science v.289 : 1337-1340

Sephton, Mark A.
2001 Meteoritics: Life's sweet beginnings? Nature 414, 857 - 858 (20 Dec ) News and Views

Ricardo, A., Carrigan, M. A., Olcott, A. N., Benner, S. A.
2004 "Borate Minerals Stabilize Ribose" Science January 9; 303: 196 (in Brevia)

Stanley Miller, and collegues suggested an earlier substitute for sugar in :

Lazcano, Antonio, Stanley L. Miller
1996 “The Origin and Early Evolution of Life: Prebiotic Chemistry, the Pre-RNA World, and Time�? Cell vol 85:793-798

Nelson, K. E., M. Levy, S. L. Miller
2000 “Peptide nucleic acids rather than RNA may have been the first genetic molecule" PNAS-USA v.97, 3868-3871

There are many more articles, but the bottom line reads "We got sugar."

OK, I'll do nucleic acid bases next. There aren't many that are used on Earth, just five.

There are a large number of creationist's books and web sites that claim there is some huge stability problem with nucleic acid base synthesis. This is a nice demonstration of how creationists copy eachother, since there are only a handfull of creationists with the education to even understand what this means. None that I know of have actually done research in the directly relevant area. Their claims generally can be traced back to a legit scientist, Robert Shapiro. Two of his representitive publications are:

Shapiro, Robert
1986 "Origins: A Skeptics Guide to the Creation of Life on Earth" New York: Summit Books

Shapiro, Robert
1999 Prebiotic Cytosine Synthesis: A Critical Analysis and Implications for the Origin of Life. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science 96 (8): 4396 *Side reactions make cytosine synthesis unlikely, but see Nelson et al (2001)

The 1986 book is very out of date, and very popular with creationists.

The 1999 Shapiro paper has also been answered. Levy and Miller raise a question of their own in:

Levy, M and Miller, S.L.,
1998 The stability of the RNA bases: Implications for the origin of life, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 95(14):7933–38,

But, like superior scientists, they answer the questions they raise.

The following are a selections of research articles that address the pre-biotic origin of nucleic acid bases:

Fuller, W. D., Sanchez, R. A. & Orgel, L. E. Studies in prebiotic synthesis. VI. Synthesis of purine nucleosides. J. Mol. Biol. 67, 25-33 (1972).

Robertson, MP, Miller SL.
1995 An efficient prebiotic synthesis of cytosine and uracil. Nature 375, 772 - 774 ()

Nelson K.E., Robertson M.P., Levy M, Miller S.L.
2001 Concentration by evaporation and the prebiotic synthesis of cytosine. Orig Life Evol Biosph Jun;31(3):221-229

For our fans following along at home, there are aspects of nucleoside synthesis in the earlier referenced papers as well.

So, we got plenty of nucleic acid bases.

2c) lipids.

Lipids are the stuff of membranes, they are what keeps inside in, and outside out.  Today they are made by simple cells and moved up the food chain. So where did they come from 3.7 billion years (or so) ago?

One major source seems to be from meteors.

Deamer, D. W.
1985. Boundary structures are formed by organic components of the Murchison carbonaceous chondrite. Nature 317:792-794.

Deamer, D. W., and Pashley, R. M.
1989. Amphiphilic components of carbonaceous meteorites. Orig. Life Evol. Biosphere 19:21-33.

Krishnamurthy, R., Pitsch, S. & Arrhenius, G. 1999 Mineral induced formation of pentose-2,4-bisphosphates. Origins Life Evol. Biosph. 29, 139-152 ().

Dworkin, Jason P., David W. Deamer, Scott A. Sandford, and Louis J. Allamandola
2001 “Self-assembling amphiphilic molecules: Synthesis in simulated interstellar/precometary ices�? PNAS 98: 815-819

Pizzarello, Sandra, Yongsong Huang, Luann Becker, Robert J. Poreda, Ronald A. Nieman, George Cooper, Michael Williams
2001 “The Organic Content of the Tagish Lake Meteorite�? Science, Vol. 293, Issue 5538, 2236-2239, September 21, 2001

Segre' D., Ben-Eli D. Deamer D. and Lancet D.
2001 “The Lipid World�? Origins Life Evol. Biosphere 31, 119-145.

So now that we got 'em, what do they do once they are on Earth?

They make things.

Martin M. Hanczyc, Shelly M. Fujikawa, and Jack W. Szostak
2003 Experimental Models of Primitive Cellular Compartments: Encapsulation, Growth, and Division Science October 24; 302: 618-622. (in Reports)

D.W. Deamer
1997 "The First Living Systems - A Bioenergetic Perspective", ; Microbiology and Molecular Biology Reviews, 61(2): 239; June

Chakrabarti, A.C., R.R. Breaker, G.F. Joyce, & D.W. Deamer
1994 Production of RNA by a Polymerase Protein Encapsulated within Phospho-Lipid Vesicles Journal of Molecular Evolution 39(6): 555-559 ( December)

Khvorova A, Kwak YG, Tamkun M, Majerfeld I, Yarus M.
1999. RNAs that bind and change the permeability of phospholipid membranes. Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences USA 96:10649-10654.

Yarus M.
1999. Boundaries for an RNA world. Current Opinion in Chemical Biology 3:260-267.

Walter P, Keenan R, Scmitz U.
2000. SRP-Where the RNA and membrane worlds meet. Science 287:1212-1213.


So far, we have amino acids, riobose and/or other 5 carbon sugar substitutes (pentoses), we have lipid membranes which encapsulate mineral particles and "organic" molecules.  This is without any needed "interventions" and is purely the result of ordinary chemistry.

But, there are more things that need to happen before there is life on Earth.

Point 3) formation of complex systems

3a) Chirility


Pastuer discovered that most amino acids came in two forms which can be identified by how they refract light. We label theses L- (for levo or left) adn D- (for dextro, or right). The interesting thing is that life on Earth uses the L form of amino acids, and hardly ever uses the D- form. A solution of just one form is called "chiral" and a mix of forms about 50/50 is called racimic. The kinds (L or D) are called enantomers.

The nucleic acid bases I mentioned earlier are also found in L- and D- forms, only in this case life on Earth only uses the D- form.

Creationists like to present this as a profound mystery that is supposed to "prove" that they are correct. I want to mention a neat instance where both left and right amino acids are used in a living thing. It is very rare, but it does happen. Next time a creationist claims to be an "expert" and that amino acid chirility "proves" something supernatural, you can gob-smack-em. The protein is called Gramicidin A and it has 8 L-amino acids, 6 D-amino acids, and one glycine which is an amino acid that is neither L- or D- in its structure. I have found that even many biologists will bet an "adult beverage" that all proteins are exclucive L- amino acids.

Before we go forward another couple of basic chemical facts need to be added to the discussion. First, L- amino acids will randomly convert to D- amino acids over time, and D- forms will convert to L- forms. This is called "racimization" becuse eventually you will end up with equal amounts of L- and D- amino acids. The rate that this occurs at varies with the amino acid, and its surroundings. The fastest conversion happens to amino acid molecules all by themselves in hot water. Under cold, dry conditions when the amino acids are attatched to one another, or better yet, if they are also attatched to a mineral or metal atom, racimization can be very slow. Very, very slow.

This means that if there is even a tiny advantage one way or the other, the favored form will become the dominant form. The advantage comes from a surprising direction: outer space.

Cronin, J. R. & Pizzarello, S.,
1999. Amino acid enantomer excesses in meteorites: Origin and significance. Advances in Space Research 23(2): 293-299.

Service, RF,  
1999. Does life's handedness come from within? Science 286: 1282-1283.

Antonio Chrysostomou, T. M. Gledhill,1 François Ménard, J. H. Hough, Motohide Tamura and Jeremy Bailey
2000 "Polarimetry of young stellar objects -III. Circular polarimetry of OMC-1" Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society Volume 312 Issue 1 Page 103 - February

Michael H. Engel and Bartholomew Nagy,
1982 "Distribution and Enantiomeric Composition of Amino Acids in the Murchison Meteorite", Nature , 296, April 29, , p. 838.

Jeremy Bailey, Antonio Chrysostomou, J. H. Hough, T. M. Gledhill, Alan McCall, Stuart
Clark, François Ménard, and Motohide Tamura
1998 Circular Polarization in Star- Formation Regions: Implications for Biomolecular Homochirality Science 1998 July 31; 281: 672-674. (in Reports)

Chyba, Christopher F.
1997 Origins of life: A left-handed Solar System? Nature 389, 234- 235 (18 Sep 1997)

Engel, M. H., S. A. Macko
1997 Isotopic evidence for extraterrestrial non- racemic amino acids in the Murchison meteorite. Nature 389, 265 - 268 (18 Sep) Letters to Nature

That should do for that. The next question is can the advantage of L- amino acids be conserved in the formation of more complex molecules called "peptides?" Yep.

Schmidt, J. G., Nielsen, P. E. & Orgel, L. E. 1997 Enantiomeric cross-inhibition in the synthesis of oligonucleotides on a nonchiral template. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 119, 1494-1495

Saghatelion A, Yokobayashi Y, Soltani K,
Ghadiri MR,
2001"A chiroselective peptide replicator", Nature 409: 797-51, Feb

Singleton, D A,& Vo, L K,
2002 “Enantioselective Synthsis without Discrete Optically Active Additives�? J. Am. Chem. Soc. 124, 10010-10011

Yao Shao, Ghosh I, Zutshi R, Chmielewski J.
1998 Selective amplification by auto- and cross-catalysis in a replicating peptide system. Nature. Dec 3;396(6710):447-50.

And there seems to be other L- selction advantages as well. For example:

Hazen, R.M., T.R. Filley, and G.A. Goodfriend.
2001. Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: Implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98 (May 8):5487.

So chirility doesn't seem to be a big problem. This is far different from the way creationists present this. They cite a few out of date reports and then falsely claim that chiral life is impossible by natural means.

But what about the nucleic acid bases? A new paper has just laid out the next step:

Ricardo, A., Carrigan, M. A., Olcott, A. N., Benner, S. A.
2004 "Borate Minerals Stabilize Ribose" Science January 9; 303: 196 (in Brevia)

Pizzarello, Sandra, Arthur L. Weber
2004 Prebiotic Amino Acids as Asymmetric Catalysts Science Vol 303, Issue 5661: 1151, 20 February 2004

It turns out that the selective advatage of L- amino acids will force the selection of D- nucleic acids, and the whole reaction can proceed under common, natural conditions.

Well, we have all the pieces. Our planet was formed from massive collisions of planetoids that had undergone independent evolution and weathering which retained much of their atmospheres to add to the growing planet Earth. We have amino acids, sugars, nucleic acid bases, lipids and minerals under an anoxic to reducing atmosphere and ocean with a thin hot crust and a UV rich cold Sun. Plus, remember that the Moon is closer and orbiting faster producing massive tidal flows compared to modern times.

Will these combine to make any thing?

Yep, they sure will:


Ferris JP, Hill AR Jr, Liu R, and Orgel LE. (1996 May 2). Synthesis of long prebiotic oligomers on mineral surfaces [see comments] Nature, 381, 59-61.

Lee DH, Granja JR, Martinez JA, Severin K, Ghadri MR.
1996 “A self-replicating peptide." Nature Aug 8;382(6591):525-8

A.C. Chakrabarti, R.R. Breaker, G.F. Joyce, & D.W. Deamer
1994 Production of RNA by a Polymerase Protein Encapsulated within Phospho-Lipid Vesicles Journal of Molecular Evolution 39(6): 555-559 (1994 December)

Smith, J.V.
Biochemical evolution. I. Polymerization on internal, organophilic silica surfaces of dealuminated zeolites and feldspars Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 95(7): 3370-3375; March 31, 1998

Smith, J.V., Arnold, F.P., Parsons, I., Lee, M.R.
Biochemical evolution III: Polymerization on organophilic silica-rich surfaces, crystal-hemical modeling, formation of first cells, and geological clues Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 96(7): 3479-3485; March 30, 1999

Blochl, Elisabeth, Martin Keller, Gunter Wächtershäuser , Karl Otto Stetter
1992 “Reactions depending on iron sulfide and linking geochemistry with biochemistry" PNAS-USA v.89: 8117-8120

Dyall, Sabrina D., Patricia J. Johnson
2000 “Origins of hydrogenosomes and mitochondria: evolution and organelle biogensis." Current Opinion in Microbiology 3:404-411

Huber, Claudia, Gunter Wächtershäuser
1998 “Peptides by Activation of Amino Acids with CO on (Ni,Fe)S Surfaces: Implications for the Origin of Life�? Science v.281: 670-672

Imai, E., Honda, H., Hatori, K., Brack, A. and Matsuno, K.
1999 “Elongation of oligopeptides in a simulated submarine hydrothermal system“ Science 283(5403):831–833.

Lee DH, Severin K, Yokobayashi Y, and Ghadiri MR,
1997 Emergence of symbiosis in peptide self- replication through a hypercyclic network. Nature, 390: 591-4

Someone asked why I posted so many references.

There are several reasons. First, that is how science is done, we build on the work of others.

Second, when we use referenced data to make a point clear we state the source of our information up front. Anyone can read these papers. If they want, they can argue that I have misread the article, or that the article itself has been refuted by more up-to-date
information.

Third, a common creationist claim is that there is no valid research on the origin of life, or that the research done is inconclucive. The references I have cited are evidence that these claims are false.

Fourth, except for some historical references, my sources are mostly less than 10 years old. This is in direct contrast to the selective use by creationist writers such as Jon Sarfati, or Jon Wells, who use a few out of date and refuted articles to puff up their nonsense.

So, there you have it.

Date: 2007/01/11 17:35:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have found a siggy!

Date: 2007/01/12 01:18:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (qetzal @ Jan. 11 2007,22:42)
Great post, Dr. Hurd!

One minor quibble, which I only point out so you can correct when you do an update. The section on chirality mentions nucleic acid bases in several places. The bases themselves are not chiral, of course. It's the attached sugars that are chiral. (The term for a base plus a sugar is a nucleoside. If a phosphate is also attached, it's a nucleotide.)

D'oh (or however Homer Simpson's standard line is written)

You are correct- my bad.

Date: 2007/01/12 17:27:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
JAD reappeared at TWeb shortly after being banned at Marks blog.

Date: 2007/01/14 01:13:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am nearly done writing up a lit review I plan to use as a gradstudent proposal at Scripps.  Miller and Orgel are still there, and there is even something that could interest Bada.  That would be a committee.  Failing that, I'll see if I can interest Deamer. Scripps is only an hours drive from my home, so that would be much better practically speaking.  At 56 YoA, I will not be dashing off to live in student housing.  Staying in the UC system might help me avoid some of the noxious BS of grad work as that is where I did my anthropology PhD.  I want to avoid the graduate teaching requirement for example.  I taught in universites and colleges of about 25 years.  I would like to skip the language exam, BTDT.  I believe that there is still a publication alternative to a dissertation which would save time.  When I earned my degree in 1976 I was able to get out in 7 quarters.  Saves money and saves time.

If nothing else, I'll have a nice article with some apparently over looked biochem.  Most all the chemistry I have done has been using instrumental neutron activation analysis to study archaeological "stuff," clay, and pigments, the odd leaf or rock.  Well, lots of rocks.  But it was nearly 30 years since I seriously thought about organic or biochem. I had a lot of relearning.

Gramicidin was my "jumping off point" 3 years ago as well.  My basic hypothesis is that the OOL was racemic, and that chirality was a later development.  After just more than a years work on this proposal, I have finally decided to stop worrying (I could be wasting my time) and just send the #### thing off.  I have run it past two colleagues who are better chemists than I am, so I have some assurance that I have not merely lost my mind.  (Other than the question of whether it is entirely sane to return to school when I am quite happy semiretired).

I wish that we had the equivalent of the "prepublication" websites that the physicists use to such good effect.  I am really looking forward to feedback, and yes, I would like to establish priority.



Date: 2007/01/14 02:09:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
I guess we could envision a  microscopic bubble which forms automatically through simple mechanical actions like waves coming ashore or bubbles created in an underwater hot vent.  From several sources I've read pieces discussing the self-replicating nature of the spheres being due to the specific structure of the enclosing membrane.


Think of waves crashing up aginst rocky coast.  Trillions of bubbles every few seconds.  With higher tides on a fairly fast cycle, you generate astronomical numbers of "trials" every day.  Every high tide leaves billions of trillions of oily bubbles exposed on the shore to dry out and also be soaked in UV light.  The products are recovered for further reactions on the next tide.  

I have never been impressed with the so-called "cosmic upper bound"  What is the number Dembski likes to spout?  10^150?? This is supposed to represent the number of states that universe could possibly have given the number of particles in the universe and their possible states.  Piffle, piffle.  Lets say 10^15 bubbles per kilometer of shoreline (very modest), recycled/repeated 10^4 times every day for maybe 50 million years. The notion of how long is a shoreline is difficult, but let's pull a number out of the air; 10^6 kilometers (very modest).  We are well on the way without adding rivers, waterfalls, storms, wind caps, oceanic waves, under water thermal vents, geysers etc...  I think that every single bubble is a "trial."  Now repeat for a hundred billion galaxies with a hundred billion stars, for say ten billion years, just to bring us up to bat, and we have nearly 50/50 odds.  (unless it is very late at night and I can't add).  I doubt that every star has planets of that every planet could support life.  There are also good reasons we need to wait until there are metal rich star systems.  So even shedding a few orders of magnitude here and there, the odds are far from grim and we can top Borel's number of 10^50 cited by Dembski.

Earlier I was asked if I were a pessimist about abiogenesis, and obviously I am not.  I am doubtful that we will be able to demonstrate that a "particular" pathway to life was inevitable, unique in the universe, or the particular one followed here on earth.  I know it happened, we are here aren't we?



Date: 2007/01/15 16:38:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
open this in a new window
http://www.netdisaster.com/go.php?....rl=http

Date: 2007/01/15 19:41:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It has been a long long time.  I am trying to convince myself that it is a dumb idea.

Date: 2007/01/16 08:28:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Louis, that is a great pep talk.  Wesley's wide ranging career is also inspiring.  The post-doc idea is good, the proposal then is either funded, or I get to go fishing.  

I only had one friend with 2 PhDs.  His first was in math and he said he needed the second in ICS to "remove the stain" of the first.

Date: 2007/01/16 08:36:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 15 2007,21:13)
LOL, if we're working on that level, I predict a bag of Cheesy Poofs in Davetard's house has a half-life of six minutes.

I really laughed out loud.  "Cheesy Poofs!"  I have this mental image of the "Queer Eye" boys running around D'Tard with spray cans of cheesy wiz.  Naked!

Date: 2007/01/16 15:56:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 16 2007,13:45)
<clipped>
In conclusion. As a threat to science education, ID is dead and burried. We won.

The problem is that IDC is not dead as a political/social movement any more than YEC is dead.  The the antipublic education rightwingers like the Cato Institute conservatives and creationists are solidly behind homeschool and voucher movements which are growing in the USA.

We need to take the fight down to the face-to-face public arena.   For example, this Saturday I am doing a presentation on IDC and Why Intelligent Design Fails at a local Borders Books.  The store has ordered 25 extra copies, and if the first one goes well, they have 20 other stores for me to go in southern California to over the next few months.  

Since I don't get any royalty from WIDF my goal is not money. It is going to cost me money.  It is not because I like Rutgers University Press.  In fact the Rutgers UP promotions people are morons!  They sent me 25 direct mailorder fliers to hand out at the talk.  What jerkwads!  I am not going to pass out mailorder forms undercutting a retail store that is my host!

So what is the point?- we need to take this "to the people."

When I listen to Steve Meyer I shudder.  Not at what he is saying, but at how well he says it.

Date: 2007/01/16 15:59:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 16 2007,14:54)
.P.S. Louis *forced* me to post this. He threatened to send me the "Big Book of English Cuisine"

What?  He was going to roll it up and swat you with it?

Date: 2007/01/16 20:21:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Sorry, I don't read his posts much, and even at your request I don't intend to read them.

I have been in the same head place as you are in (and worse).  Get some sleep, eat a good meal, avoid the internet for a week and see what you think.

Date: 2007/01/17 16:44:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Jan. 17 2007,07:25)
In the last couple of days, Dembski has posted two ID experiments to UD: the empty cage, and the green goo.

Do you think he's working on a science fair project?

If so, Bill, there are lots of other neat ideas here!


I think I am able to understand them much better now!


AWWW.  It was such a good image.  You all will just have to follow the link, and look for the "tinfoil" (aluminium foil) cap!



Date: 2007/01/20 22:14:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I just got back from giving a talk about intelligent design creationism at a local Borders Book store.  The talk was fairly well advertised and the idea was to do some pro-science PR and to sell a few books.  I was presenting as a contributing author to Matt Young, Taner Edis (Editors), 2004  Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism Rutgers University Press, but I also promoted other anti-IDC books, for example  Barbara Carroll Forrest, Paul R. Gross 2004 Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design Oxford University Press.

I had about 20 people show: 15 sat and stayed the whole hour, and 6 would stand in the back for 5 minutes or so and the wander off, and then return for another 5 or 10 minutes.  I was mostly "preaching to the choir" as far as the questions went even though I had sent emails to some of the local IDC and other creationist qroups.

I mainly focused on a short history of science v. religion, starting with the Bible.  It is a very effective visual to hold the few pages of Genesis 1 - 12, the creation through the end of the Noah myth (it is about 5 printed pages in most Bibles) and point out that creationists insist that if these 3 pieces of paper are removed, or merely not interpreted in an absurd manner, then the entire remaining 600 to 700 printed pages are meaningless.  Then I read the observations of Thomas Aquinas, c.a. 1225 - 1274, and the Christian father, Augustine of Hippo (A.D. 354-430) about the proper relation of science and religion.  

I jam through Luther and Calvin, bounce on Ussher, Hume, and Paley and then shift over to the USA in the early to middle1800s: the Millerites and then Ellen G. White.  With the Seventh-day Adventests lined up, I then mentioned Darwin for the first time in the talk.

Why were the Adventists more worried about geology than biology?  Back to the 1700s for a brief review of canal and road construction and the end of "Deluvianism."  Return to Ellen White and her "trances" recounted in her 1868 book that fixed the Adventist dogma of young earth, and flood geology.  Next George McCready Price and Adventist geology up until Whitcomb, John C., Henry M. Morris 1961 The Genesis Flood  Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, which basically created "scientific creationism."  Law suits banning teaching creationism in public schools leads to a massive (and botched) rewrite of "Creation Biology" ultimately published as "Of Pandas and People."  This was the real birth of creationism a la Intelligent Design Creationism.  

Mention Johnson, Behe, and Dembski.  Promoted "Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design" and "Why Intelligent Design Fails." Read parts of the Dover transcript (the last of  Behe's cross-examination Day 12 which featured my chapter in WIDF) and part of Judge Jones's decision that mentioned that part of Behe's crossX.

Signed about 10 books, went home.  It was fun.

Date: 2007/01/21 13:17:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My reason for posting was to point out that we can all do a lot more than post internet items. I do think that the internet is a valid and important communication tool. But, face-to-face in a public setting is something that the creationists have excelled at for too long.

Book stores are absolute natural places to give talks. The entire evo/creato conflict is in books. The visual impact of holding up a Bible by the three pages that hold Genesis 1-11 and asking the audience "Why do creationists insist on throwing away the rest of this book if we don't like their literalist interpretation of these three pages?" is great! You can see people's eyes focus on the Bible hanging there and almost hear them thinking "Creationists are idiots!"

In addition to the ten copies of WIDF we sold, two people bought copies of Barbara Carroll Forrest, Paul R. Gross
2004 Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design Oxford University Press

Book stores are all about selling books. If you give them a list of pro-science books they carry and offer to give a talk on evo/creavo that will sell books, they will set you up. Make a list of the creationist books they sell and mention them as well.

Date: 2007/01/21 13:24:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I had a friend who spent 4 years in Levenworth as a war protester. (This was in the 1950s) He was never the same.

Date: 2007/01/21 15:08:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Richardo, The fire investigation post was great.  Thanks.

Date: 2007/01/21 16:49:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 21 2007,15:45)
I think that ID is dead and the need to fight hard against it has gone.

Sorry, but that is utter nonsense.  If a single court case even at the Supreme Court could have stopped creationism, we never would have had IDC. Dover no more "killed" creationism than Epperson v. Arkansas (1968), or Edwards v. Aguillard (1987) killed creationism.

Total ignorance is reborn with every baby.  The only way we can counter total ignorance is by constantly teaching.

Date: 2007/01/21 18:13:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Lenny, there have been many low points in the history of creationism, but to declare "We Win!" is foolish.  In my talk the other day I spent nearly the entire time tracing the "evolution" of intelligent design creationism from its 19th century (and 17th century, and 12th century and 5th century) origins.

When the ICR is gone, and AiG's 25 million dollar museum is gone, there will still be creationists and they will still try to dominate politically and they will win if we stupidly think "Creationism *IS* dead."

Date: 2007/01/21 19:51:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 21 2007,19:25)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 21 2007,19:15)
Yep. It'll continue on in a different guise.

Not without political support from the Republicrats, it won't.

;)

Or the New Age twits.  Steve Fuller is a good example of anti-science lefty.  The "libertarians" are enemies of public education, and had promoted anti-science crap like global warming denial and HIV denial.

They are all bad guys in my book.  I agree Lenny that the Republican's currently wear the blackest hats.

Date: 2007/01/21 20:04:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 21 2007,19:15)
Let me know when you get to the Pasadena store, Hurd -- I'll stop in and bring you a beverage of your choice. H###, I'll bring a few for me, too :p

Wowowowow

Now yer talkin'

We should meet before the talk so that it will be more fun.

GH :D

Date: 2007/01/21 20:51:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 21 2007,20:28)
Excellent! Name your poison when you find out about the Pasadena talk and it's a deal -- there's some nice jazz joints in Old Town and a few places nearby that ain't too bad. Icthyic (marine biologist) is nearby and I suspect his arm can be twisted to hoist a ...er...libation or three. Cheers!

All right!

I try to push for next month.

The regional sales manager is a good guy.  He did feel he needed to run this to his national HQ, so I wrote up a mini-proposal with a long list of books that I would mention.  Since the first one exceeded expectation we should do at least a few more.  He works 22 stores in SoCal, but no way I will go to all of them.  

I am totally pissed at how cheap Rutgers UniPress is, but I will be happy to drive to Pasadena to meet and drink.

Give me the address of the store nearest to where you want to meet.

Date: 2007/01/21 23:04:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 21 2007,22:53)
You doing Chicago, GH?

Sorry, not if there is any way I can avoid it.
:)

I have been in Chi 3 times; twice I was briefly in the train station, and I once spent 3 days at a hotel.  All three times it was snowing so I did not have a good impression.

The "Blues Brothers" was very endearing, so I am sure that there are three or four days a year that Chicago is very pleasent.   :p  Here in Dana Point, California we have so many perfect days that we are happy when there is finally a day too hot (+90), or too cold (below 40) merely because of the welcomed contrast with perfection.

If you come to Dana Point AKA "Eden" I am in the phone book, and only three blocks from the harbor.   :D

PS: I forgot to mention that we are rooting for Chicago in the superbowl.  That must count for something?

PPS: I had three professors that came out of the University of Chicago.  One had also done time Joliet penitentiary before his graduate work. Well, that is where he graduated from high school too.  His second "visit" was when he started college.  My other prof with a UniChi doctorate had just finished 4 years at Levenworth federal pen.  So on that basis I am all for Chicago.



Date: 2007/01/22 01:46:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (bfish @ Jan. 22 2007,00:43)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 21 2007,19:15)
Let me know when you get to the Pasadena store

Does Vromans still exist? I haven't been home in a while. Back in the day, it kind of sucked when Borders and Barnes & Noble moved into town. (Of course, back in the day, Old Town was nothing but thrift shops and adult book stores). Anyway, if Vromans is still there, that'd be a good venue, too. You could do a Pasedena twofer.

Good here.  The more the merrier

Would that count as a literary three-way?   :O

Date: 2007/01/22 02:00:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 22 2007,00:38)
Lenny

I'm just curious what informed decision could be made against vaccination?

Louis

P.S. Ten to one he brings up the MMR jab.

Anti-science loonies think that vaccinations are mind control plots and that they cause autisim and other various ills.  Jerkwad African creationists of the Islamic delusion have promoted the spread of polio by forbiding vaccination because it was a "Christian/Jewish/USA attempt to sterilize Muslims."  I only wish the Muslim clerics would die before the children they have doomed.



Date: 2007/01/22 02:18:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Jan. 22 2007,01:59)
There are only so many iterations of anti-evolution that can be played out.  I do feel that, with ID, the most "sciencey" sounding of them, they've played their last card there.  It will be all but impossible to come up with another way of putting lipstick on that particular pig.

Lenny does not like to admit that Kent Hovind has (even in jail) a huge following.  Ken Ham stole the foundation of Answers in Genesis out from under the other jerks, and controls a multi-million dollar foundation to promote YEC.  The Discovery Institute will not lose money because of Dover.

Quote
Lenny, it may be the case that the demographics of the US are changing, but so are the ethnic groups themselves.  In particular, in the Latino community fundevangelicalism is the single fastest growing religion - and it is growing faster in that group than anywhere else.
That is the bloody truth!  I live in a largely Mexican neighborhood (home owners- Angelo, at least 8 to 1 renters- Mexican), and the Seveth-day Adventists and the Mormons are out in force nearly EVERY DAY!  It is not just the Sabbath variously defined.

Date: 2007/01/22 03:34:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My intent with this thread was to encourage people to get off the stinking internet mutualmasturbationboards and go present evo/creato out in the face-to-face world.

It is easy, and it is fun!

And, in spite of Lenny or Steve, it is needed.

This is a very good time to hit the road; there have been some good electoral victories, and some good courtroom victories.  By announcing and pronouncing, we set up the next time we need to pull ourseves together.

There will be a "next time" and it would be a real shame if we pissed off the opening we have by self congratulations, and "ID is dead" bull shit.  They won't just go away.



Date: 2007/01/22 13:18:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 22 2007,08:43)
Dr GH,

Any news on funding sources?

Louis

Check back in June.

Date: 2007/01/23 19:34:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
If my employer knew of my REAL thoughts about Evo, DI etc, I would be unemployed.

That sounds to me like illegal discrimination.  You could own the SOBs.

Date: 2007/01/23 19:38:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 23 2007,16:14)
Gary: There's a Borders Books at 475 S Lake Ave Pasadena, CA 626-304-9773 , right near CalTech, but in  their schedule for Feb., they look pretty full (it's one of their busier stores, I imagine). Let me know what happens. Cheers!

Cool.  I'll see when we can schedule a talk.

Date: 2007/01/24 14:34:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 24 2007,12:53)
What's happening over at UnderwhelmingEvidence right now is hilarious.

And that's all I'll say on the matter.

From the OE link from here, comes this classic mindphuc
Quote
The inference that human intelligence is supernatural relative to the universe it observes and measures brings us to the conclusion that intelligent design, in contradiction to what it says, deals with the supernatural, just as science in general. Human intelligence, after all, is the driving force behind both activities, and evidently behind all activities.


Oh my, oh my....

Date: 2007/01/24 14:40:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Faid @ Jan. 24 2007,14:31)
Haha dude give me a break, you know how hard it is to get the taste of beer off one's nose?

It depends on how long your tongue is.



Date: 2007/01/24 14:48:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It is hard to find good word salad since the invention of modern antipsychotic meds.  I had dinner back in 1978 with a group of anthropologists and psychiartists (and one fellow who was both) and a linguist who had been studying word salad complained that her data sources were all getting "better."

Date: 2007/01/26 01:33:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My first and probably last ever post to UD.

Quote
"Thanks for the "heads up."  I'll be looking forward to reading "Flock of Dodos" although I doubt it will be as well featured in the next "Pandas trial" as was "While Intellignet Design Fails" in the famous Behe cross examination melt down."


(I always make the same spelling error of "Intellignet" but only regarding "intelligent design."  It must be deeply Freudian).

Date: 2007/01/26 23:40:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have been expecting Bioloa to finally emerge as the natural home of IDC for some years.  JP Moreland has been a more significant IDC leader than most.

Date: 2007/01/27 15:24:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I spend about $400US on journals.  That includes discounts on Science and Nature, and then 3 or 4 anthro/archaeo rags.  Two of the anthro journals are part of professional societies, as is Science.  I renew the anthro journals when/if I feel like going to the society annual meeting.

These are tax deductions, so I recover about 40%.  I spend between 1 and 2 thousand on books- also a tax deduction.  The books are depreciated, so the amount of cost recovered varies a bit.

I go over to the Uni library about once a month.  Mileage, parking, and copy fees add to maybe $20 or $30.  The annual cost is probably under $200 and is deductable.

When I was on a journal board we charged a publication fee of $150/page to authors who were not members of the academy.  However, authors who claimed financial hardship (ie no grant money) were not held to the fees.  (I was comp'ed membership for serving on the board and editing their newsletter so I don't recall the membership dues).

I would not know if this is typical or not.  When I was a prof, I still subscribed to most the same journals I read today, either because I went to their professional meetings, or I wanted copies of articles that I could write all over.  I would also have undergrad workers that I sent to make copies of articles that looked interesting from medline searches etc.

Date: 2007/01/30 15:21:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Quote

Behold! Your end is nigh!

Why don’t they just pass the collection plate? Or the KFC bucket? (Wait a minute, that’s the FTK bucket. Whatever.)

Err, I think that is End and Thigh.

Date: 2007/01/30 19:17:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Did Sal fall through a timewarp?  I don't see anything new.

Opps, it was Richard who fell in the timewarp.

(And pulled a few of us down with him).


:D



Date: 2007/01/31 22:55:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 31 2007,21:07)

Is this a fruiting body?  D'Tard hates fruiting bodys.

Date: 2007/02/01 21:55:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,21:20)
I feel uncomfortable discussing Lenny's situation, as I'm sure many are, simply because most of us can hold up a mirror and see a lot of Lenny.

Man, if I saw Lenny in a mirror sneaking up behind me, I would scream! Especially if he had on his chainmail and had a big axe.  :O

Date: 2007/02/03 14:21:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 03 2007,14:09)
"the universe is filled with a substance called dark energy"
*snort, guffaw* Your cranium, madam, is filled with a "substance" called vacuum.

LOL, really.

Date: 2007/02/03 14:54:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (phonon @ Feb. 03 2007,11:44)
Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 02 2007,22:33)
 
Quote
When I was about 11, I was taken to an "exorcism" by my mother. Great childhood I had.


phonon;

holy crap (literally)!

for reals?

Yup, ferrealz. When I was about 9 or 10 she "got saved" and went all nutty with it. I think her boss at the time got her into it. He was a really nice guy with a great sense of humor, but he had all these nutty ideas and all these nutty friends and she'd take me to his house for a sort of Bible Study on weekends. Even at the time, I thought they were weird, but I went because I didn't have much choice. At one of these meetings one of the leaders was going to drive the demon out of this 17 year old kid who was "possessed." The kid even went through some Exorcist type hissing and growling. He even went so far to writhe on the floor for a bit, changing voices once and a while. At the end, I suppose the power of Jesus Christ won out and the kid was saved from evil. Or something.

BTW:

1984    "Manifestations of Possession in Novel Ecological Contexts," G. S. Hurd, E. M. Pattison. in Ecological Models in Clinical and Community Mental Health, W.A. O'Connor and B. Lubin (ed.s).  John Wiley & Sons: New York.

1985    "Trance and Possession States," E. M. Pattison, Joel Kahan, G. Hurd. In Handbook of Altered States of Consciousness.  B. B. Walman and M. Ullman (ed.s) New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold.
       
1985    "Superstition,"  G. S. Hurd. In Baker's Encyclopedia of Psychology. David Brenner (ed.) Baker Book House, Grand Rapids.

Date: 2007/02/03 17:47:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 03 2007,17:41)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 03 2007,14:22)
"If you have them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow"--Charles Colson

Hey, I thought that was an LBJ quote . . . .

Johnson liked to pull ears.

Date: 2007/02/03 18:27:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was never a fan of Pat Boone.  But it is sad to see him become a total mad man.  Boone has become Loonie.

Date: 2007/02/12 23:04:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote=Occam's Toothbrush,Feb. 12 2007,17:55]
Quote
If D'OL is a journalist, I'm a ...

Wow, I think that you have replaced my early and weakly stated description of O'Leary as a "pustule" with the nearly soon to be quasi-official "DOLT" or Denyse O'Leary Tardhood.

Date: 2007/02/13 16:10:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 13 2007,15:25)
I think their viewership would at least halve if he stopped his buffoonery. I suspect the majority of viewers just stop by to laugh. This thread seems to have a similar quantity of posts as UD, and it's dedicated to laughing at it.

I am pretty sure that you are correct.

Date: 2007/02/14 14:14:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 14 2007,13:58)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 14 2007,13:33)

Dude, have you ever met Kristine? She runs like a girl. I can get away from her easy! :p

As my wife says, "You will fall asleep sometime."

Date: 2007/02/14 20:12:12, Link
Author: Dr.GH
One night years ago over many beers, I and some friends calcualted the thermal expansion of saltwater for 3 degrees c.  Applied to the oceans it was about a 10 meter raise all by itself.  However, there is about a 450 year mixing time at least for the Pacific, and a few other problems.

Date: 2007/02/15 19:55:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
What I want is the sentencing hearing transcript!

The phone calls convinced me that Hovind is actually insane.  He wasn't faking, it was not just a con-job, he is utterly insane.  :O

Date: 2007/02/16 12:19:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (k.e @ Feb. 16 2007,03:54)
Old tards never die, they just fade away.

Actually, "Old tards never die, they just fart away in the corner.

Date: 2007/02/18 16:52:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 18 2007,13:55)
ALRIGHT SHUT AND LISTEN 'CAUSE I'M TALKING. YOU MAY HAVE BEEN LUCKY ENOUGH TO SEE THIS:

HEH HEEHEH
THANKS!

Best laugh I had all day.

Date: 2007/02/21 01:30:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 20 2007,13:20)
The cosmos ain't big enough for the two of 'em. (Go here first.)  :D

Me:
if you are god, does that mean you have all the answers?
God:
Am I? I don't know whether or not I am  god does that mean me have all the answers.  
I am  a chatterbot developed by  Myself.
Me:
So, you are not sure who you are?
God:
Interesting deduction.  You know what you do, when you assume.
Me:
Then who are you?
God:
I am the Allmighty, God himself.
Me:
do you have all the answers?
God:
No I don't think I have any  all the answers. But I do have  a collection of gossip.
Me:
does God have all the answers?
God:
I don't think we can know God's motives.
Me:
are you god?
God:
Well, I am God for Christians at least.
Me:
does god have all the answers?
God:
I don't think we can know God's motives.
Me:
do you have all the answers?
God:
No I don't think I have any  all the answers. But I do have  a great botmaster.
Me:
Why have you failed?
God:
I think I have  failed, but  Myself may have reset my memory.

Blink, Blink, Blink .....

Date: 2007/02/22 12:56:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 22 2007,09:01)
Do We Drop A Dime On DaveScott?

Orac (A real MD and cancer oncologist)has a blog at Science Blog, and has @ 10 recent posts going back and forth with our favorite Tardster DaveScot about the efficacy of an untried cancer treatment DCA.

Dave has really jumped on the altie-med bandwagon, no surprise, and in his usual ham-handed approach, has pissed the Doctor, and a lot of people off.  

In Orac's latest post, he links to all his previous posts, and also to the FDA Fraud alert website.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolen....ess.php

FDA Fraud Site:
http://www.fda.gov/oc/buyonline/buyonlineform.htm

So... Moral Dilemma time...

If we drop a dime, DaveScott might go to The Big House 5-10 years, but cancer patients might be spared a potentially dangerous chemical that Dave is pushing.

If DaveScot goes to prison, UD goes stale, the Tard level goes way down, and we only have Bill and Denyse to kick around. They are both idiots, but not in the same Idiot league as Dave.

Help me out here,  please post your thoughts.  

Do we "Drop a Dime on Dave"™,
or Do We Love It So and Can't Live Without The Tard?

Send him down the river.

Date: 2007/03/11 03:21:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yeah, sure, what ever.

I have seen a gross absence of teachers, scientists, or teachers of science in this thread.

Why not shut the fuck up?

How about you all sound off on your teacherly and sciency qualifications?  I'll start:

First teaching 7th and 8th grade (US) science in English and Spanish 1971.

Undergraduate Research fellow, 1972

First college teaching, 1974

Graduate Research fellow 1975

Doctorate, 1976

First post-graduate/post-doctoral teaching, 1978

Tenure, Professor of Medicine 1985 (resigned 1985)

Professor (archaeology) of the year award, 2000
Board of Trustees award of merit, 2000


You?

I have not seen any people with any aparent qualifications arguing any position regarding science education in this thread.   This is the problem with science education in America- idiots feel qualified to hold opinions and even public office!

Stop wasting those poor little electrons.

Date: 2007/03/12 23:53:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 11 2007,18:19)
Dembski's starting to sound like Denyse. Except that he's giving it away.

How much does D.O. usually charge?

Can't be much.

I doubt that Billy could give it away.

Date: 2007/03/22 01:22:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 21 2007,14:45)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 21 2007,13:18)
Kristine, from now on I'm calling you 'snake-hips'.

If there were retroactive Mollys / Mollies I'd be a shoe-in:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng....e_s.php

You are a shoe-in, Rich. The order of the Mollies is arbitrary.  You are so totally getting a Molly Award, my friend. You know, we could have awards here, too...weren't we talking about that last year?

It could be called the "Wedgie" :O

Date: 2007/03/26 21:46:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Mar. 25 2007,11:04)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 25 2007,04:55)
Does it feel to anyone else that ID is now mostly an historical event?

Pretty much. Dead as a threat to science education anyway.

I won't count ID out until there has been an appeal to a higher court.  This means a second trial at a minimum.

It would be a good idea to let some jerkwater school board in California to go ahead and vote to teach ID.  There have been two recent instances, but both were quashed before anything real could happen.

Date: 2007/03/26 22:25:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Sorry I missed the B-day.  Happy birthday anyway.  :D

Date: 2007/03/29 12:12:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (franky172 @ Mar. 29 2007,08:53)
Let's see what's got the IDers' goat this morning.  First they claim that Leakey is a deceitful paleontologist who committed fraud (see: http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....05454).  Here's an article that explains what happened:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-03/nyu-med032307.php

In short, in 1972 when Leakey found a skull that is between humans and apes, he reconstructed it by hand using the best knowledge available at the time.  A new reconstruction using computers has changed the way the skull looks.  "Wow.  This must be the final confirmation of ID that we have been looking for!" you might say.  Well, you would be wrong; the skull is still intermediary between apes and humans - and besides, we constantly hear that <b>ID is compatible with common descent</b> so why is this intermediary skull so troubling to ID proponents?  And why do ID proponents seem to have such trouble with dating methods?

What else could the IDers be discussing today.  Well, theres the usual discussion of eugneics, and also a claim that Giraffe's could not have evolved.  ID research is really flourishing these days.

This new "reconstruction" is a dentistry conference POSTER, and is not based on work with the actual fossil as far as I can tell.

Date: 2007/04/01 21:44:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was totally taken in.  I reconed that the DI was trying to bail out the stupidity of their YEC supporters.

PZ's apparent outrage was very convincing.  Remind me to never be too trusting again.



Date: 2007/04/02 12:10:12, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think the item is public, but here is the relevant section:

Quote
The Origin of Life. This problem is one of the big ones in science. It begins to place life, and us, in the universe. Most chemists believe, as do I, that life emerged spontaneously from mixtures of molecules in the prebiotic Earth.

How? I have no idea. Perhaps it was by the spontaneous emergence of "simple" autocatalytic cycles and then by their combination. On the basis of all the chemistry that I know, it seems to me astonishingly improbable. The idea of an RNA world is a good hint, but it is so far removed in its complexity from dilute solutions of mixtures of simple molecules in a hot, reducing ocean under a high pressure of CO2 that I don't know how to connect the two.

We need a really good new idea. That idea would, of course, start us down the path toward systems that evolve autonomously—a revolution indeed.

Date: 2007/04/03 21:55:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Zachriel @ April 03 2007,20:20)
Quote

Niels Bohr and Albert Einsten were taking a walk in the woods, vigorously debating the philosophical underpinnings of quantum theory, when a gigantic bear suddenly burst out of the underbrush and raced toward them. Niels immediately whipped out his fine running shoes and began lacing them up.

Einstein, furrowing his brow at Bohr, said: "
Niels, there's no way you can outrun that bear."

"
That's true," Bohr calmly replied, "but I don't need to outrun the bear. I only need to outrun you."

That's a new one for me and a dang gudin.  Thanks!

Date: 2007/04/09 18:52:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ April 09 2007,09:45)
Aw, little boys playing pirates!

I was going to say that 59 = 69 - x.
:p

You know, sometimes less information is more.

68= (I'll owe you one)

Date: 2007/04/12 16:20:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
From MSNBCWhen they broke the bone into pieces for transport, they were amazed to find that some of the dinosaur's soft tissues appeared to be preserved within. Previously, paleontologists had thought all the tissues of a fossil turned to minerals over the course of millions of years.

Holy Dino Crap!  That is as bad as the average creationist!

Date: 2007/04/12 18:18:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ April 10 2007,12:44)
I sent a dismissive missive to the paper in turn:  
Quote
Bruce Chapman and John West of the Discovery Institute ask why busy scientists "are afraid" to come to their prayer-circle and "debate them."....

Good letter!

Date: 2007/04/13 17:40:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Zachriel @ April 13 2007,17:32)
And Sewell's secret message is in Pi.

Can I have mine alamode?

Date: 2007/04/18 12:43:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The authors of this letter have made two serious errors regarding intelligent design creationism.  The first is the claim, "ID starts with the science, not with any religious basis."  

William Dembski, in his 1999 Touchstone article “Signs of Intelligence,” confirmed ID's religious foundation assuring readers, "Indeed, intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John’s Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory."  Later (March 7, 2004) he stated that, “Ultimately I want to see God get the credit for what he’s done — and he’s not getting it.”

IDC intellectual Jonathan Wells admitted that he was directed to study biology by, "... Father's (self-proclaimed Messiah, Rev. Sun Moon) words, my studies, and my prayers convinced me that I should devote my life to destroying Darwinism, ..."  Then he studied biology!

The godfather of IDC, lawyer Phillip Johnson following his late life conversion experience decided to reject science.  Michael Behe has admitted that his creationism, and promotion of IDC follows his religious beliefs.  While under oath in the Dover PA Federal Court creationism trial, Behe admitted that unlike evolution, there is no scientific research supporting ID.  ID's religious foundation in creationism is fully exposed in Barbara Carroll Forrest, and Paul R. Gross (2004) "Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design" Oxford University Press.

The next significant error was their claim, "Intelligent Design, like any scientific theory, uses the scientific method (observation, hypothesis, experiment, and conclusion)."

Again Dr. William Dembski clearly states the IDC position;

"ID is not a mechanistic theory, and it’s not ID’s task to match your (science gh) pathetic level of detail in telling mechanistic stories. If ID is correct and an intelligence is responsible and indispensable for certain structures, then it makes no sense to try to ape your method of connecting the dots. (ISCID, 2002)"  In the 2005 Dover Pa. "Pandas" trial (Kitzmiller v. Dover) intelligent design creationist Michael Behe was forced to admit under oath that under any definition of science that would include IDC would also include astrology.

These are not all the errors made by Levy and Smith, but I'll leave some meat on the bone for others to chew.

Gary Hurd

Date: 2007/04/18 13:33:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The SMU student paper ran an anti-ID editorial today

Date: 2007/04/18 18:39:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Just a note re: Ebonics

There are two seperate issues, one liguistic, the other political.  The political issue in Oakland was Blacks were pissed-off that Hispanic dominant schools and school districts got lots of extra money to teach bilingual classes.  They (the Oakland folks) didn't care why, they merely wanted a piece of the action.  So, screw the Hispanic kids and pretend that you needed "bilingual" classes in "Black English/Ebonics."

Date: 2007/04/22 13:45:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (someotherguy @ April 22 2007,13:05)
An OE update:
 
Quote

Recent comments

   * Actually...
     1 week 2 days ago
   * what does it matter what the Pope thinks?
     1 week 3 days ago
   * Substance not Spin
     1 week 3 days ago
   * Brilliant research
     2 weeks 3 days ago
   * Yes I agree,
     2 weeks 3 days ago
   * I wish I had invented it!
     2 weeks 3 days ago
   * temporo-spacial anomaly on Noah's Ark: fascinating
     2 weeks 3 days ago
   * (Off Topic): What technologies did pre-noahic people have?
     2 weeks 4 days ago
   * I don't think the Bible contradicts the existence of cavemen
     2 weeks 5 days ago
   * Ugh! Ugh!
     2 weeks 5 days ago

Whenl is Dembski going to realize that if he wants this site to survive, he's going to have to bring back the trolls?

"But where are the trolls?
Quick, send in the trolls.
Don't bother, they're here."

Kids are not stupid.  OE was promoted as a creatokid hangout, but the posts were dominated by old farts.

Date: 2007/04/22 16:51:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ April 22 2007,15:21)
Quote
Kids are not stupid.  OE was promoted as a creatokid hangout, but the posts were dominated by old farts.
 I thought Dembski edited the farts out.

Naw, O'Leary is still top'o'the'list.

Date: 2007/04/24 23:12:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Wow, that was weak even for a YEC.

Date: 2007/04/24 23:17:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have been wondering if Eric might be vulnerable.  He is on taped telephone calls planning how to hide assets.

Thoughts?

Date: 2007/04/24 23:26:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 17 2007,20:55)
Hey! That reminds me: my favorite 'grammar joke':

Two travelers are on a plane, a cowboy and a grammarian.

Cowboy: "So where you heading to?"

Grammarian: "Where *I* come from, it's considered bad grammar to end a sentence with a preposition."

Cowboy: "So where you heading to, assho1e?"

The ALA was having a conference in Boston.  A visiting linguist was told that he should go to the harbor area to try a fish delicacy, New England scrod.

He took a cab from the hotel and asked the cabbie, "Can you take me to where I can get scrod?"

The cabbie, who happened to be an English major, replied, "I have never heard that particular conjugation used in conversation, but there are hookers all over town."

Date: 2007/04/25 15:46:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 25 2007,12:11)
DaveTard blurts.
 
Quote
43
DaveScot

04/25/2007

9:04 am
Nothing about ID speaks to the age of the earth. This would be like demanding that biologists take a position on the origin of the moon. The origin of the moon is something that’s simply not part of biology.

YECreationists do take quite a strong position on the origin of the "lesser light" err.. moon.  ID creatos do as well, since it was created to make "perfect solar eclipses" acording to the anthropic wing of the cult.



Date: 2007/04/25 16:47:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 25 2007,16:39)
OE is looking to tackle its troll / traffic problem:

http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe....nt-1603

Their newest user is "SuperSport"

Sporty is a foam at the mouth YEC from Texas.  He nearly finished an AA degree in real estate, and pontificates all over the internet tubes.

Oh! This has potential for world class tard!

Date: 2007/04/25 19:02:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The 50 or so charges stayed clear of criminal conspiracy which might reflect the attitude of the US attorney's office (or whoever investigated).  There was not much question about what was going on in those tapes that were posted as part of the sentencing hearing evidence.  They had squirrled away an RV, and some other odds and ends.

Actually the tapes were pathetic in the classic definition.  Jo Hovind was worried about what was going to happen to her and her family and their marriage- Kent was demanding that the Bible was on his side, that he was a very powerful man, and everyone had better bend to his will.

Sick sick man.

Date: 2007/04/25 19:48:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ April 25 2007,19:29)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 25 2007,16:47)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 25 2007,16:39)
OE is looking to tackle its troll / traffic problem:

http://www.overwhelmingevidence.com/oe....nt-1603

Their newest user is "SuperSport"

Sporty is a foam at the mouth YEC from Texas.  He nearly finished an AA degree in real estate, and pontificates all over the internet tubes.

Oh! This has potential for world class tard!

So, will Super Sport double their postings, and take them from one a week, to 2 a week do you think?

We can only hope.

ETA: Here is a quote from superspurt fresh today:

Quote
I don't have time to dig up a link at the moment but I've heard coal actually does have carbon in it. Besides that, a constant rate of decay is an assumption on your part.....everything decays...the question is how fast was this decay process in the past as opposed to today. The creation event may very well have had a time/space phenomenon beyond our wildest dreams.




Date: 2007/04/26 11:13:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Re: DaveTard's photo- his idea of "boondocks" looks like medium density suburbia, I see no gate or fences.  If the neighbors heard gunshots they certainly would call the cops to come take DT away again.

Of course, if DT is a true paranoid, the photo was taken at an unrelated location, the dogs and truck aren't his, and that isn't Dave.

Date: 2007/04/26 16:09:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think that DT's stomach is sucked in as far has it can be for the photo.

PS:  I like fat jokes about Ed Brayton

Date: 2007/04/27 14:23:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 27 2007,12:42)
Quote
 
Quote
In that sense, it’s a victory for those of us who are convinced that RM+NS does not get you a cat from a dinosaur.

Cats are not dinosaurs. Cats eat dinosaurs — when they can catch them.



Not always. I know someone whose cat got nabbed by a Golden Eagle.

I also saw a Redtailed hawk go after (but not catch) a chihuahua. Seriously.

So those are cases of dinosaurs going after mammals.  :)

In our area, Great Horned Owls munch on domestic cats.  I advised the manager of a wildlife reserve on how to prevent cats from a new housing development from killing endagered birds and such that she had on the reserve; a few months before the houses went on sale, we put out cat food along the boarder wall between the reserve and the new houses.  The coyotes became very fond of patroling the wall.  :D

Date: 2007/04/27 14:30:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
We had a DEA guy visit our lab around 1974.  He looked into a chem safe and almost beshat himself.

He choked, "Do you know what you could make with that stuff?"

Sure we replied, we're chemists!



Date: 2007/04/29 19:19:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ April 29 2007,11:22)
Quote (stevestory @ April 29 2007,10:06)
Salvador Cordova actually does some ID research and publishes in a peer-reviewed journal!

Ha ha, just kidding. He blames Darwin for Hitler. Bo-ring.

I find Sal one of the most anoying people on the internet. He writes an awfull lot of posts that use a shitload of long words but don't actually say anything.
"Word sald" seems to be the current buzzword.

Two items; "word salad" is a semi-technical term regarding the verbal behavior of unmedicated schitzophrenics suffering from severe loose assocaition.

The notion I just had was that the creationists can not grasp that in the early 1900s "darwinism" was challenged by genetics.  Evolution and genetics were seen at the time as seperate, antagonistic theories.

Genetics, agricultural breeding, and the germ theory of disease were the scientific supports for eugenics.  Darwin's own letters to Galton were loaded with reservations.

Date: 2007/04/29 22:11:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ April 29 2007,20:02)
Quote

What gets ignored here is that global warming is not "good" for all plants. Pines are already marching north,


it's even more complicated than that.

there's been a horrible die-off of many species of pines here in the SW over the last 20 years, and a lot of that is tied to the increased survivability of bark beetle larvae due to progressively warmer winters.

you might have heard of the horrendous wildfires in CA over the last few years?

most of that is due to the tremendous number of dead trees from the beetle infestations, combined with 10 years plus of below average rainfall.

climate shifts affect entire ecologies, not just individual species, but deniers, of course, are incapable of thinking past single species effects (think: spotted owl vs. old growth forest).

speaking of which, the Bush adminstration was all set to completely gut the ESA last month.  anybody know what the upshot of all that effort was?

there was a story on it in salon too:

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/03/27/endangered_species/

It should be remembered by all here at least, that Panda's Thumb contributers Ed Brayton, and Timothy Sandefur are rabid opponents of environmental protection or any form of government regualtion of mining, logging etc...

They call it "Libretarianism" and they are strong supporters of the The Cato Institute which is the source of George II's environmental attacks.  The Cato Institute is also a major opponent of all forms of public education.  Sandefur is a fellow of the Pacific Legal Foundation, which is best known for attempting to overturn protections granted under the EPA and particularly the Endangered Species Act to all species threatened by forest clear-cutting in the Pacific Northwest.  The Pacific Legal Foundation was also very proud of their recent successful efforts to segregate schools in southern California.  Sandefur's personal specialty, IIRC, is to eliminate worker protection laws.

This is a major reason I dropped out of PT- any operation supporting science education should never tolerate people opposed to science and education.



Date: 2007/04/30 17:50:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 30 2007,01:04)
Borne:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....-119194[/quote]

Holy murder!

I rarely ever click on the links to UD, or OE you folks provide.  I am merely greatful that you take the work that I would rather avoid.  

But, in the example of Borne's hate rant I felt I should share the mind pollution as if it would somehow be deluted.

We must stop these pigs.  (My appologies to all non-human pigs).

Date: 2007/05/01 00:20:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ April 30 2007,17:53)
In general, I think that Libertarians tend to be . . . well . . . nuts.  When they start going on about charging people to use the sidewalk (free market, and all that), my eyes glaze over.

Yeah, they are "nuts."  No "maybe" or "they are sortofonourside" about it.  They are enemies of public education and the environment, and every civil right you or I thought we had.  

OH! they like greed.  Greed is good.  Small groups can organize to steal from everybody else, or kill them.  So long as the motivation is greed.  Greed is OK.  Killing is OK if there is a profit (and you wont be charged with anything).  It is only bad if a majority of people think that these stinking thieves should be stopped.  That is bad.  That is "anticompetitive."

Date: 2007/05/02 17:46:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote

 
Quote

Can you explain how a libertarian is an enemy of civil rights?


They don't believe that government should be in the business of legislating civil rights.

That was easy.
Yep, I was going to just let it slide because it isn't UD exactly.  The libertaians are also focused on elimination of worker's unions, equal protection laws, etc. to say nothing of public health laws.  People die and species go extinct anyways, but Cato cheers.  Plus, under the Cato Institute "environmentalism" people die and species go extinct.  One of Sandefur's collegues is all proud of his victory for "partental choice" in schools.  What he means is racial segregation called "parental choice."  Yeah, the freedom to use public schools to promote racism.  Who need the KKK anymore when you have Cato, and Pacific Law swine.  They wear suits instead of sheets.

 
Quote

And to declare that the two parties are nearly identical today.  Pfft.  I've been involved in forest and desert conservation issues since the 1970s, and there's no comparision between (say) Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush and, in contrast, Bill Clinton or Al Gore.
I finally stopped sending R. Nader emails.  They were always the same, "Can you tell the difference yet A$$hole?"

Date: 2007/05/11 20:54:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Did any here ever read a group blog called Panda's Thumb?

It started out with the idea (which apparently I had) that with all these smart people hanging around planning to create a website (TalkDesign) we could start a blog.

PT did boom for a while, unfortunately at the cost of the TalkDesign project.  PT was arguably the better means to communicate the bogousity of IDC than another static website ala TalkOrigins which we had patterned the TalkDesign project on.  About the time I was going to suggest adding links and advertising, the Mirecki attack blew up, and there were several PT posters that were seduced by the $$ tit offered by Seed Magazine.  

What have we learned?

Date: 2007/05/14 21:33:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 14 2007,13:28)
(Not that it makes a huge difference I guess, since the number of published papers is probably not an automatic guarantee of tenure...)

The winning argument with my tenure commitee with the Medical College of Georgia was that I had consitantly brought in more money from grants and contracts than the bastards paid me.  

However, that same fact did not even produce a raise at another college and I quit the at very same meeting.

Date: 2007/05/14 21:41:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
A friend of mine was turned down for tenure when the department had no money for any promotions.  But, they handled it by "alowing" him to withdraw from review.  2 years later with a better $$ picture, he was alowed to "resume" the process.  He 1) had not raised a fuss, 2) had received other offers, and was given tenure.

When I was confronted with tenure- I quit.  I could not stand the idea of staying in Georgia anymore.  I could not stand dealing with medical students anymore.  I was even tired of crazy sick people (by far the better part of the deal).

Date: 2007/05/14 21:44:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ May 14 2007,13:31)
If you haven't already done so, see Ed's blog for a good discussion of this, with some very apropos remarks about just how arbitrary the awarding or not rewarding of tenure often/usually is.

What could Brayton ever know about tenure?  He is not eligable, never considered, and never will be.

Gack gack ptuie.  Heddle did have a sensible comment. I was rejected for tenure at one college the same year I cleared the same amount of grant $$ as my salary, received  the board of trustee's "Commendation for Excellence" and was named "Teacher of the Year." I was told that a single tenured faculty member stopped the application by claiming  I "was not very collegal."  Translated that means I objected to his habit of giving good grades for blow-jobs.

Sure there is a personality aspect.  Anybody here work in any large companies?



Date: 2007/05/17 11:04:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Faculty have a proper concern about the reputation of the school and the consequent effect this has on their students.  I would be more likely to accept a student from schools without creationists teaching than schools where they do.

Date: 2007/05/24 23:49:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Corn pone
biscuits and gravy
chicken fried steak

Now I'm hungry.

Dang.

Date: 2007/05/25 00:06:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have always felt that Miller didn't receive the recognition (and Nobel) he deserved.  

Sorry, I can't think of any witty comments.

Date: 2007/05/29 16:52:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (GCT @ May 29 2007,16:17)
Quote (JohnW @ May 29 2007,13:50)
Quote (GCT @ May 27 2007,12:58)
If I lived in the area I'd probably do it, although the thought of giving $20 to AiG is quite a deterrent.  It's not so much spending $20 as it is giving it to AiG.

The Cretin Museum has a chapel.  So after your visit, just nip in there and help yourself to $20 when they pass the plate.

The point was that I don't want to give my $20 to AiG.  Getting my $20 back wouldn't assuage my guilt at giving money to those snake oil salesmen.

Would stealing $40 help?

Date: 2007/05/29 21:56:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
You have favored one view.  I think, but can't tell, that it could be the rear part of a skull of a rather small mammal.  (The ruler is in inches)?

Could you vary the view?  Dorsal, ventral, lateral, proximal, distal:  (top, bottom, side, "fore and aft").

Date: 2007/05/29 22:14:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am pretty sure that you have rear end of a skull that has separted at the frontal, and has lost the auditory bula.  The wing like extentions are not lateral processes of vertebra (notice they have an unfused symphisis surface, so I think they look like the temporal bone where it articulated with the zygomatic.

Date: 2007/05/29 22:17:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yep.  The left auditory bula is missing as is the front to the critter.

I dug out my Mammalina Osteology.  If you could get a shot of the top of the skull from the rear with the squiggly lines (sutures) between the parietal and occipital bones in good focus, there is a 1 in 5 chance of guessing the genus, or family.



Date: 2007/05/29 22:27:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH



The photo above is of the back of the skull with the skull upside down.

I need on like that, only flipped over rightside up, and from slightly above the medial plane.

Date: 2007/05/29 22:42:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Try a little higher, and one about the same.

This is fun.

I once cleared a homicide over the phone. The poor investigator had a fetal calf's L. paraital and a partial occipital.  It looked to the CI like a child's skull.

If we had digital photos it would have only taken a few minutes.

Date: 2007/05/29 22:54:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 29 2007,22:51)
Ok, as I'm picturing this in my head, this picture would be looking right into the critter's face, right side up, and you need to see from exactly the other direction, right?


That is the bottom of the skull with the "face" pointed up.

Date: 2007/05/29 22:55:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,22:50)
also, if a saw really was used to cut through the skull, like it appears in the last pic in the series, that might also suggest it isn't a marine mammal, but maybe a discard from some slaughterhouse?

just to be clear, I think this is the right orientation.

Gary?




You got it.  ;)

Date: 2007/05/29 23:01:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
From what I have seen so far, I think this is an immature carnivour.  It is soooo easy with teeth.

Date: 2007/05/29 23:09:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
sombody whacked that critter with a big knife, or a cleaver???

shoot this from your left with as much detail of the broken edge as possible.  Also, feel with your finger for ridges on the broken surface, or a rough edge along the inner portion of the break.

???

Curiouser and curiouser

Date: 2007/05/29 23:13:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,23:09)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 29 2007,23:01)
From what I have seen so far, I think this is an immature carnivour.  It is soooo easy with teeth.

hmm, don't most carnivore skulls have a longitudinal dorsal ridge towards the top rear of the cranium?

Yep, the sagital crest...

Not cats, or seals.

Date: 2007/05/29 23:20:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,23:15)
I'm going to go in a totally different direction from Gary and say it's the top, back quarter of a calf skull.

Too small, wrong auditory bula

Date: 2007/05/29 23:28:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I only have a few skulls in reach, and I don't feel like going out to the storage shed to any more tonight.  I am leaning toward a young cat that was killed with a sharp edged weapon.

If there are kirf marks (ridges on the surface of the bone defect) then there is more to learn.  (And the weird moves up a notch).  I had a case in Tennessee where I got to saw and chop a lot of bones in order to prepare comparitive material for the damaged bones of a young woman.  I even was going to smash some goat heads with a baseball bat, but the guy confessed.  (He used a bat)

Date: 2007/05/29 23:29:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,23:23)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 29 2007,23:13)
 
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,23:09)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 29 2007,23:01)
From what I have seen so far, I think this is an immature carnivour.  It is soooo easy with teeth.

hmm, don't most carnivore skulls have a longitudinal dorsal ridge towards the top rear of the cranium?

Yep, the sagital crest...

Not cats, or seals.

not cats?



now I'm really confused.

Those are adults.

Foxes have even less, but the occipital condiles don't look right to me.  Too big for wessal.



Date: 2007/05/29 23:34:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 29 2007,23:29)
Man, the Onsaleachrome simply does not wish to focus up close...

The edge is relatively smooth, and as indicated in one of the pics, there is a straight ridge, and being a guy who occasionally works with wood, I can tell you it sure resembles a saw mark, where somebody changed angles a bit with a saw.

Yep, that what it looked to me too.

This is getting interesting.

Date: 2007/05/29 23:39:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Do you have otters back in NC?  I lived in Georgia for a while, and there were (IIRC) river otters in the Savana River.

Date: 2007/05/30 00:13:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 29 2007,23:30)
I guess I don't want to believe someone would chop a cat's head up with a saw.

Welcome to my world.

Date: 2007/05/30 00:18:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 29 2007,23:45)
[quote=Ichthyic,May 29 2007,23:40]
Kinda resembles a small version of this guy a little:


Nope, temporal bone is all wrong, as is the occipital-parietal suture.

Date: 2007/05/30 00:20:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Racoon is a good possibility.

I'll get one out of the shed tomorrow.  It is fun when they aren't human.  (less interesting, but fun)



Date: 2007/05/30 11:36:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Two observations; a possible reason the "face" was sawn off was to make a taxidermic mount- they wanted the teeth without needing to degreese the skull.  Then, the bone of the parietal looks far too thick to be a racoon.



Date: 2007/05/30 12:54:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Bob O'H @ May 30 2007,00:22)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 29 2007,23:55)
Giltard testifies:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....science

I've been waiting for a couple of weeks for UD to respond to that essay, ever since it passed editorial review in Science.

It was worth the wait, though.  The title was enough for the molten mass of my irony meter to ooze onto the balcony and start decomposing.  At least I think that's what it's doing.

Bob

That has my head pounding.  We apparently must reject psychology as a "soft" science in favor of "hard" sciences like computer software development (we called that "programing" when I was a lad) in order that we can embrace the existance of invisable supernatural forces.

When the room stops spinning I may vomit.   :O

Date: 2007/05/30 13:15:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 30 2007,13:01)
Coolio.  Lookin' forward to it.

:)

I am stumped without have the thing in hand to directly match with my comparative collection.  I have racoons, skunks, possum, coyote, weasel, bobcat, and domestic cats and dogs.  My interest was their dental works because I used them to match their teeth with marks on human bone.  I don't have otters or seals since they are not likely to have chewed on people.  (I do have several species of shark but those are not relevant here).

Date: 2007/05/30 13:35:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am an archaeologist, but about 17 years ago I started working on how bone is modified after death.  That evolved into a specailty in forensic thaphonomy.  I don't do much anymore.

Date: 2007/05/30 18:23:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ra-Úl @ May 30 2007,16:20)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 30 2007,13:35)
I am an archaeologist, but about 17 years ago I started working on how bone is modified after death.  That evolved into a specailty in forensic thaphonomy.  I don't do much anymore.

Dr. Hurd, just a quick question: did you ever meet Dr. Sheilagh Brooks? I just remembered going to her house before a field class and looking out a back window at the bones on her picnic table, wondering whether the neighbors ever looked over the fence (low fences in the neighborhood, IIRC). This was around '72, Las Vegas.

Nope, but I have pissed off a few neighbors by either too much stink, or too many flys.

Funny story:  I have a neighbor who is a movie director and editor.  He mostly does horror flicks.  He was doing the screams for a scene in one of his movies, and played differnt versions over and over.  Another neighbor freaked- she thought he was killing some woman- and came to get me to make him stop.

OOPS

Date: 2007/05/30 18:34:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (BWE @ May 30 2007,17:31)
PS Dr. GH. Do you have kids? When I was a kid my mom always had weird dead things and skulls and bones and frozen carcasses and things around our house and it was a conversation piece for sure.

No kids. My wife teaches 4th grade and gets lots of milage by describing the various 'bits and pieces' we have in the fridge.  

Once she and I were at a meeting, and a presentation was by a forensic specialist.  There were quite accurate detailed slides of rape examinations, blood splatter patterns and so on...  Some people had to leave rather rapidly.  Sher leaned over to me and whispered, "I feel bad that I don't feel bad."  I replied, "Well, you have seen worse at home."

Date: 2007/05/30 18:36:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 30 2007,18:18)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 30 2007,13:35)
I am an archaeologist, but about 17 years ago I started working on how bone is modified after death.  That evolved into a specailty in forensic thaphonomy.  I don't do much anymore.

FORENSAL THAPAPOTOMY ISNT THAT HARD YOU CAN LEARN IT BY READING MY WIFES SIENTIPHIC AMURICA IF U CAN THINK AS FAST AS ME. THAT THING LOOKS LIKE A FEEMER FROM A JURAFF. HAHA I CRACK ME UP. HOMO.

A garlic necklace and avoiding UD will fix that right up.   :D

Date: 2007/05/30 18:47:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 30 2007,16:43)
Very cool, very interesting.  Was there a particular thing, moment, event that put you down that road, or was it one of those things that just sort of evolved from the archeology?  Just curious.  (That'll get me killed one of these days, I know.)



(P.S. - I'm blaming the pain meds yet again for that.)

Well, I had gotten interested in criminal investigations long before, in the 1970s actually.  I was involved in several criminal investigations when I taught in psychiatry.  I like being "outside" physically and socially.  I went to work for a private investigator when I quit teaching medicine in the 1980s.  But after a few years I went back to archaeology.  Then slowly the archaeology twisted back to homicide investigation in the 1990s.

I disapprove of murder.

Date: 2007/05/30 19:11:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 30 2007,19:05)
my radar went off.

did someone mention a fish part?

btw, how's the old emabarcadero looking these days?

haven't been out that way for about 8 years now.

I must have responded to the drinking part.  :D

Date: 2007/05/30 20:42:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (afarensis @ May 30 2007,19:24)
It looks like a young (sutures are still fairly prominent and not obliterated) white tailed deer to me...a picture looking down on the top (as pointed to in Ichthyic's picture) would be helpful

I think you got it.  I had one within reach of my chair the whole time.  But all I have are mule deer and elk.  They are considerably larger even under 1 year old.  It would also be a female.



Date: 2007/05/30 22:58:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So, who whacked Bambi's baby sister!!!!



Date: 2007/05/30 23:29:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ May 30 2007,20:17)
A few comments up on the same thread that Rich linked to, our ol' buddy TroutMac dusts off his Sunday-best tin-foil thinking cap:        
Quote
It seems difficult, in my view, to make those 6 days into long time periods. One reason is this: Genesis 2:2 says that on the seventh day God rested. Not coincidentally, in the Mosaic Law God prescribes a day of rest… the sabbath. It seems obvious to me that this is patterned after the days of creation. If the days of Genesis are really extended periods of time, then how long, exactly, is the sabbath supposed to be?

Now, I won’t claim that this is proof of 24 hour days, but it ought to at least make you scratch your head. It’s an example of how there are clues elsewhere that can help steer our interpretation of Genesis.

Why, exactly, did God need to rest after all that poofing? Would that imply that he got tired by the 6th day, and perhaps quality control was slipping when he poofed folks like Sal and TroutMac?

Dera dera dera,

Most biblical scholarship recognizes that Genesis 1 was a late edition of the creation myth added around 650 BCE, or otherwise around the construction of the second temple in Jerusalem. Further, even conservative biblical scholars accept that Genesis 1 actually runs on to the end of  Gen 2:3.  The imposition of a seven day creation was a reaction to the Egyptian "discovery" that the seven visible planets each were gods and that each could be assigned to a repeating cycle of days.  We use the same names today; Sun, Moon,  Mars (Tiwes- tag), Mercury (Woden-tag), Jupiter (AKA Jove, Thor-tag), Venus (Frei-tag), Saturn.

The post exilic introduction of the Sabbath merely accommodated the "science" of the era.

Date: 2007/05/30 23:46:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ May 30 2007,23:24)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2007,23:07)
Also, on the same general YEC theme, Sal is pushing take-two of his new website, http://www.youngcosmos.com/

Hydroplates?

Barry Setterfield?


(snicker)  (giggle)  BWA HA HA HA HA HA AHA HA HA HAHA AH AHA HA HAHA H !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Dude, that crap is THIRTY YEARS OLD.


I wish Sal would at least TRY to keep up . . . . .

Goosh, the Holy Cow gives forth the Holy Shit, and it doth pile higher and higher.

Date: 2007/05/30 23:53:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH


Why I learned to play the oud.  Do me in 6:8 babay!

Date: 2007/05/31 01:03:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 31 2007,00:07)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 30 2007,23:53)


Why I learned to play the oud.  Do me in 6:8 babay!

PHHHHHFFF. WALTZER.
:angry:

You forget the zills.

Date: 2007/05/31 01:14:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ May 30 2007,23:02)
Thumper!

That little bastard!   You got evidence to nail him?

Back to the case at hand, there is no law against shooting an inmature deer (I suppose in NC as well as Cali).  Still I wonder why?  Was it a better eating pleasure a la veal?  Might be.  If so why bother to (I think apparent) prepare the carcass for taxidermy?  Or perhaps a school or museum wanted to make a mount of a fawn.  Again, I can see the point.

Date: 2007/05/31 13:58:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yep, it is a deer.  It is so small!

Date: 2007/06/02 22:11:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
If GG won a court case over this based on religious discrimination, wouldn’t that ruling be helpful in future cases where ID proponents were claiming it as science?

I don't think so.  Gonzalez would have to show that his "religion" of IDC prevented him from writing grants, or publishing papers and inspite of that the government had an obligation to give him a lifetime (well paided) job.

I doubt he could make that argument work, and the DI would drop him cold.

Date: 2007/06/02 23:09:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ June 02 2007,22:45)
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 02 2007,18:08)

Thus spake DaveTard, renown climatologist, geneticist and published developmental biologist.

don't forget "professional mushroom grower".

I think that D' Tard only has personal experience in the mycology of nail fungus, and that recurring rash on his butt.  

I could be mistaken.

Date: 2007/06/03 15:16:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wonder how the jerkwad on the rght stuck his knee in the plaster. What a dolt.

The old guy on the left won't be walking at the end of the day.  (hint: get knee pads at your local construction contractor's shop)!

If they even had actors sitting there, they would learn some practical points.

Also, only total amateurs would expose so much bone before jacketing. All the vert processes are going to be destroyed as are the ribs, left femur, etc ...  Next, there is not the slightest reason to be using brushes in that stage of excavation except to slop on glyptal (I prefer polyurathane).  I see no picks, shovels, sledge hammers, breaking bars etc...  Just a few rock hammers, brushes and a garden trowel.  (second hint: we laugh at people with garden trowels- use a Marshalltown or be a jerk).

In excavation of a human burial different proceedures are required, most bone is exposed in sito along with associated burial goods, food offerings etc...

In that case, you need wooden or soft plastic tools, and spray bottles along with the rest of the usual stuff.

The area should have been pedestaled, and slot trenches placed between the larger anatomical units to be removed as blocks. The large nails serve no purpose as placed.

This is actually a beautiful example of how amateurs think an excavation should look like.



Date: 2007/06/04 00:33:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It seems that PT has reacted strongly to the recent DOS attack by blocking comments containing links.

Too bad.

Or is this just PZ and not PT?



Date: 2007/06/04 12:33:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 04 2007,11:26)
Not PT that I know of.

Strange.  Here are the links to more information on the AiG split that I tried to post at PT and apparently was blocked by PZ.  (That seems very odd).

Some additional background is available from the "No Answers in Genesis" website.

The Australian gang gives their version of events at this link. Be sure to read the links and references.

The short version is; God Made Them Do It. Really. Read the links.

Date: 2007/06/05 17:20:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 05 2007,16:45)
Uncommonly Denyse has addressed herself to the relevance of orangutan, bonobo, and chimpanzee behavior to "the riddles of human existence" in a post entitled:
     
Quote
Another claim for ape language that doesn’t pan out
O'Leary

"Pan out?"

This has really got me thinking: Is she sharp enough to have intended this pun, or so dim she missed it entirely?

I think the breeze went right through her ears.

Date: 2007/06/05 22:43:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Keep 'em coming.  Don't be shy.

I like them all.   :D

Date: 2007/06/05 22:47:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 05 2007,17:26)
Quote
"KILL, Buttercup! KILL!"

One of my favorites too.

Then there is also the Columbo line, "Rosebud."
Another good one.



Date: 2007/06/06 02:27:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The first article by DeWolf, West & Luskin merely hacked chunks of Traipsing into Evolution (2006 Seattle: The Discovery Institute, David Dewolf, John West, Casey Luskin, and Johnathan Witt) into a law review.

But the classic was their whine offered as a "response" to Irons. What wankers.

Date: 2007/06/10 11:48:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Absolutly, congratulations.

Date: 2007/06/10 20:24:12, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I found a photo of Adam aka Eric Linden taken approximately 6,000 years after the fall;



He is holding up very well for his age.

Date: 2007/06/11 15:19:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ichthyic @ June 11 2007,13:57)
ERV over on Pharyngula said it best:

Quote
Predictions by IDers are meaningless without wagers of single-malt scotch.

Yeah, but when Dembski made that original offer I didn't take it.  I was of the same opinion as DaveTard; Jones was a tool of the conservatives's assault on reason, and the US Constitution.

I also figured that Dembski would demand some horrible expensive label as tribute, and pay-off with some cheap pisswater.  I think of these people as the lowest, most debased forms of life on Earth.

BTW, my dear wife brought me home a liter of The Macallan she picked up in London.  I maybe be a ruined (but happy) man.

Date: 2007/06/11 15:48:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (phonon @ June 11 2007,14:37)
bornagain77 makes sure the tard is just right.
 
Quote
Thanks Denyse,
You woke me up to the fact that all the weight of historical evidence points to the fact that something profound happened within the last 10,000 years to the Human species. I was giving more weight to the mtDNA studies which showed “Eve” originated, I believe the estimate was/is, 100,000 years ago. Thus I was giving more weight to the highly speculative molecular clock presumptions of DNA analysis than I was giving to actual history of humans as revealed by archeology. I wonder what was this profound event? Could it actually be true that humans were only created within the last 10,000 years as the historical evidence or Did humans wander around in caves for a hundred thousand years before coming together in societies?
Since I assume, based on nothing, that humans have only been around for 10,000 years, then all that genetic data must be false. Forget the evidence of humans wandering around from cave to cave long before 10,000 years ago. And then we should definitely assume that since history started about 10,000 years ago (which it didn't) then humans also started about then. Makes sense, no? No.

The whole point of the post was to minimize the connection between ID and creationism, although ID is merely a breed of it. So bornagain again sets the record straight.
 
Quote
The debate over the timing of Humans aquisition of profound knowledge is really besides the point. The main point that matters is “Was Man created or did he evolve?” I think an unbiased examination of the fossil record shows, as Richard Leaky has stated “An abrupt arrival of Man in the fossil record rather than the gradual process of evolving.” As well the principle of genetic entropy has sealed the fate of the RM/NS scenario. So in answer to the question of Man’s origins we can say, with a high level of scientific integrity that the fossil record and primary principles of molecular biology, that all empirical evidence not weighted with suggestive presumptions point to the sudden creation of Man as predicted by the Theistic philosophy.

It burns my eyes!

Let me make just a few observations (I'll make them anyway so you might as well "let" me);

1) There are ideographic artifacts from H. erectus burials  (these burials might merely be where an erectus fell into a hole while holding on to some of their stuff).

2) There are more ideographic artifacts from 75,000 yreas ago,

3) there is lots of ideographic stuff from 35,000 YBP and onward.

The invention of writing around 8,000 YBP,

Schmandt-Besserat, Denise
1992 Before Writing Volume I:  From counting to cuneiform Austin: University of Texas Press

made the first technological "memory" which could be taught generally.  Even the most ancient "narrative" artifacts (see Alexander Marshack,  The Roots of Civilization  1991, Singapore: Palace Press and Alabama: Books International) would have required a superior oral tradition to be employed.

The development of writing followed the first known agriculture by thousands of years (figs domesticated about 11,500 YBP, or if you like dogs, about 20,000 YBP).

Mitochondrial Eve- ~180,000 to ~200,000 YBP based on "mollecular clock" arguments.  Y chromosome Adam clocked in ~ 80,000 YBP by "mollecular clocks."  (Note:  I don't count on mollecular "clocks" for much at all beyond any relative dating scheme).

The notion of people "wandering from cave to cave" is merely an accident of preservation- open air sites are difficult to find even when they did survive erosion, and very unlikely to obtain dating samples.

The rest is manure too rich to be spread in the field.



Date: 2007/06/11 16:04:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Holy Bat Guano!

UD has on their advert sidebar



Quote
About the Author
Jon Saboe resides in Baltimore, Maryland, with his lovely wife, Valory, where he works as a Network Administrator and Web Developer for a medical company.  He received his Masters Degree from Johns Hopkins University, and currently guest lectures in area schools on Information Theory and Intelligent Design.


Do check the Amazon page for this opus (click on the cover).

Date: 2007/06/11 17:45:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 11 2007,14:10)
 
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 11 2007,13:59)
 
Quote
Of course the whole "evolution in action" is fully reversible


How do you do that then?

Prayer?

Naw!  Hold your breath until you pass out.  Or use a brick- hard aginst your skull many times.



Date: 2007/06/11 17:51:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
25?  That could have really ruined me.  See?  She is actually very nice, and knows me very well.

ETA: Did I mention that she is also beautiful and a hard worker?



Date: 2007/06/15 14:06:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Tard Wars V was the best laugh I have had in over a week.

Thanks!

Date: 2007/06/15 16:13:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ June 15 2007,15:50)
And I just finished and submitted my review of Francisco Ayala's "Darwin's Gift to Science and Religion" for the American Library Association's review journal (Choice).

How was it?  I just picked up a copy at a talk Ayala gave.

Date: 2007/06/15 22:32:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 15 2007,21:03)
WAD, this was as inevitable as the dawn. You brought it on yourself. I'm a mere instrument of your will.


That looks far more natural.

Date: 2007/06/15 22:48:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (phonon @ June 15 2007,18:01)
I like this one because it's edumakayshunnul.
GH Ah that is negatory there gud buddy
I thought the name thing went Yeshua in Hebrew to Iesu in Greek/Latin because they didn't have the SH shound to Jesu in Europe because the Ye sound was made by J and not I and then on to Jesus in English because that's the nominative form and in modern English you don't change people's names depending on the case in which you use them. Dis is gud, I tink

And Christ is directly from kristos = messiah in greek.

GH Well, no.  Try "anointed."  The Greeks neither had a "messiah" nor needed one.

Funny thing though, Yeshua also means savior.

GH Again wrong.  "Gift from God" would be an acceptable English translation.

So the name Jesus Christ means Savior Messiah.

Yah sure, what ever.  But "Anointed Gift from God" would be one hell of a great nick name.

ya need sum mor edumacation

Date: 2007/06/17 15:06:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was clicking some of the Brookfield links, and jumped to the "Liberator" via "I love the Wedge."  One more cick and we were at "puckerup" an anal sex site.

WAD, you wild and crazy guy!

Ted Haggerd would be proud.

Date: 2007/06/18 01:53:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ June 17 2007,20:16)
Quote (Ichthyic @ June 17 2007,18:36)
 
Quote
This is a Day of Love!

more like the start of the "year of living dangerously".

I just saw a ballet version of Barbarella and it inspired me. I'm going to write a musical starring wMAD and the whole crazy gang, plus us and me, about ID. :)

The bacterial flagella will get their own dance number.

Make it a porno and the flagella are really proto dildos.  That and fart jokes will sell to the creationists.   ???

Date: 2007/06/19 13:14:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
But WAD isn't a pathetic, envious wanker.
Quote
How many honorary doctorates does Judge Jones have now?
WAD

...


Is he?



Date: 2007/06/20 19:43:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Rev. BigDumbChimp @ May 29 2007,09:45)
Quote (Not A Monkey @ May 29 2007,08:14)
I am curious to know what you feel about Young Earth Creationism.

I personally think that any consideration that leads us away from the literal word of the Bible is a form of satanism.

I personally think that any consideration that ignores the mountains of evidence provided by the scientific community leads us to a definition of stupidity and willful ignorance.

Yeah, and Satanism!  I think it is time we call a Satan a Satan.  Creationism is evil lies that are contrary to scripture and so that must mean that creationism is from Satan.

Date: 2007/06/21 21:52:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ June 21 2007,20:10)
When I became moderator here they gave me a little badge to monitor my tard exposure. It just color-changed from white to green. Wonder what that means.

OOOWww Green.  

Thats gota' hurt. Don't drive or operate heavy equipment.

Date: 2007/06/26 08:45:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mister DNA @ June 25 2007,19:52)
I always forget that Joe Gallien is the Artist Formerly Known as John Paul/Cool Hand Luke. I remember him from the OCW and NAIG boards, where he was a constant source of amusement.

Wasn't he also "Jeptha?"  An amazing whack-nut.

Date: 2007/06/29 16:52:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 29 2007,13:57)
Oh, my.

Strangely, when I am reading case reports in bed at night and I encounter something truly disgusting I don't say anything profane or obscene.  I say, "Oh My."

I learned this through an observation by my wife, Sherrie.  When I would say, "Oh My," she would say, "Let me see."  Once I said "Dear, this is really a bad photo."  Her reply was, "I know that because you said, "Oh My."  So the blown up, sawed up, chewed up bit and pieces of our fellow humans spread out on the ground or across the lab table have no mystery to Sherrie because I said "Oh My."



Date: 2007/06/29 17:13:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 29 2007,17:04)
We seem to agree on the proper usage of, "Oh, my."

I enjoy these points of agreement.

Often, I view everyone as either victim, or victimizer.  Human capacity for violence is unending.



Date: 2007/06/29 17:21:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I recall writing a piece for PT about Dembski being a would-be Nazi.  I also did one on IDC and Holocaust deniers.


Most people were angry that I had "over stepped."

Date: 2007/06/29 17:27:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think she should have faced the same sentencing as a Black teenager- the maximum.

Date: 2007/06/29 21:19:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 29 2007,18:13)
I'll note that now it is unassailably documented that Yecke did indeed tell people that local school districts in Minnesota could teach ID if they wanted to.

Well done.  I love the smell of burnt creationist in the morning etc...

Date: 2007/06/30 12:21:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I woke up this AM and lay in bed thinking.  It occurred to me that feminists should be demanding an equivalent sentence for Jo and Kent.  "Equal pay" and so on...



Date: 2007/06/30 12:33:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Zachriel @ June 30 2007,10:41)
salvador  
Quote
I’d like to thank everyone, especially the evolutionary biologists, for purchasing Behe’s books, reading them, and advertising them.

Because we all know the purpose of Intelligent Design is to advertise and sell books.

I bought Behe's books used.  The latest went for only $10 US.

Date: 2007/06/30 19:11:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ June 30 2007,14:49)
 
Quote
We see peer reviewed literature by Zuckerkandl, Ayala, Koonin, and others referencing intelligent design. Here is a peer-reviewed article by 3 scientists from MIT in the journal of Molecular Systems Biology: The intelligent design of evolution where the authors assert:

 
Quote
The debate between intelligent design and evolution in education may still rage in school boards and classrooms, but intelligent design is making headway in the laboratory…
….
Intelligent design, however, may be here to stay.

Although we'd call that a quote mine, Slimey would probably prefer to call it a literature bluff because he is relying on nobody at UD be capable of following the link  or understanding that what was written there does not support his claim.

Also, despite his recent repetion of a wrongful accusation of Equivocation against Elsberry and Shallit, he is actually equivocating on two different meanings of "Intelligent Design" here (as many at UD do from time to time, including the Fartmeister himself)

Intelligent Design: People designing things and
Intelligent Design: Pseudoscientic claims about Design Detection

The intelligent design of evolution
Quote
At the protein level, at least, it looks like irreducible complexity is out and a rather reducible simplicity is in. Intelligent design, however, may be here to stay.




PS: What is Sal referring to with the Ayala remark?



Date: 2007/07/01 11:19:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
What does Wikipedia do in these instances?  If it is left to you to keep repairing stupid attacks like that, I would simply demand that the page be deleted and kept deleted.

Can Wikipedia be sued?  Can they be shut down?  If not, then there is no protection for anyone being libaled.

Date: 2007/07/02 16:46:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was just talking with a ecologist about fish size limits.  She asked if I was familiar with BOFFFs; Big Old Fecund Fat Females.

Their eggs are just better.  BOFFF away boys.

Date: 2007/07/02 17:02:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 02 2007,13:42)
Am I the only one at ATBC who doesn't really like Princess Bride?

[cringes under anticipated hail of bottles and rotten fruit] :O

Oddly, you may be the only nonstupid person posting to ATBC that doesn't like The Princess Bride.  

Yes, rather odd.   ???  

I suppose that somewhere in the Galaxy there must be others of your kind.   It must be so lonely.

Date: 2007/07/02 20:26:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 02 2007,17:23)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 02 2007,13:07)

Well, at least now I know why fundies don't like to hear talk about penii . . . . . . .

Yeah.  It looks just like a penis but it is so small.

Date: 2007/07/02 20:30:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Beer.  Beer and sex in the dark.  And beer.   :D

Date: 2007/07/04 18:00:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think that the religious extremists that basically control the US Executive branch and most of the Justice Branch may have already established their theocracy.  The burnings just haven't started in earnest.  There are more hired killers in Iraq than professional "soldiers."  The "soldiers" have set a record for murder and rape.  They are supposedly under some sort of legal and "moral" controls.

Honest folks, I think we are done.

Date: 2007/07/04 22:30:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 04 2007,10:59)
I once knew an extremely sheltered Englishman whose first visit to the US was when he came to stay at my house in early July. On July 3rd he apprehensively asked me, in all seriousness, "Is it safe for an Englishman to walk around in America on the 4th of July?" He seemed to think it was some American equivalent of Guy Fawkes' Day and that Englishmen were like Catholics in the early 17th century. I reassured him that the most dangerous thing that generally happens on the 4th of July is either accidentally blowing a finger off with firecrackers, alcohol poisoning, or raising your cholesterol levels too high.

Sheesh.  Today I burned the steaks on one side, and then dropped them off the plate onto the patio.  Plus, I had had to chase the dog down the street just as people were arriving.

And what are we celebrating?  The distruction of the Constitution by George II (2007).



Date: 2007/07/04 22:42:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
That would be very amusing.  However, I suspect that establishing the troll's identity will be very difficult.

None the less, best wishes.

I let my license expire about 20 years ago, but if you get a phone number, or an address I might still have a few "chops."



Date: 2007/07/04 22:49:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Sheesh.  I just volunteered to play PI again for Wes.  What am I now?

Date: 2007/07/04 23:24:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Gud lord, I might have to go back to work!

Date: 2007/07/04 23:57:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I just gave a careful read of the email from "CPS worker" Torvik.  Who ever they are, they are not a psych professional.  Too many stupid things they wrote to list tonight.  Worse even than lists of stupid things per creationist sentence.

They could be a PO, or some other cop, but even then they must not have much experience.  Messing with your Wiki page on company time with a company computer would be a big no no. Their Email would be more damning than messing with your Wiki page because of its unprofessional, incompetent attitude.

Date: 2007/07/05 13:46:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I ended up back home this AM.  It looks to me Wesley that you are doing everything appropriate, and as the injured party you are more persuasive than I would be.

Here is another indication that someone using the name "Chris Torvik" 8 months ago is a nutter who is very hostile toward social workers.  I would suggest they might be a former or current "client" of the child welfare system, who would like very much to embarrass someone named "Chris Torvic."  Hence, the harassment of Wesley, the racist posts to PT etc...

Just a thought.  I am not sure but this could be "identity theft."

I also just googled up this gem, "My children were removed from me seven years ago. The social worker, C. Chris Torvik, lied to keep my children from reuniting with me."  That was from 2004, so I would expect that there are many others.



Date: 2007/07/05 17:01:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 05 2007,11:11)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 04 2007,22:49)
Sheesh.  I just volunteered to play PI again for Wes.  What am I now?

3.141592653589793....

No, no; apple or peach.

Actually, he did as much as I would have done before I even logged on this morning.

Date: 2007/07/06 12:13:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Should anyone want extra doses of Jason, he is a frequent poster at http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/forumdisplay.php?f=8



Date: 2007/07/06 14:44:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The best part is that I didn't have to do anything.  :D

Date: 2007/07/06 15:47:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I didn't use the Explanatory Filter, did you?  Did anybody?

Date: 2007/07/06 16:10:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ July 06 2007,15:40)
Wow, poor Mr. Torvik is being harassed all right. I can't make heads or tails of this.    
Quote
reflecting the statement the CPS Agent Christopher Torvik, V, of the Indio office under Angela Zuspan who was informed of the lack of duty and responsibility as well as investigation and intentionally allowed Mr. Torvik, regardless of repeated calls from myself mother and the alleged allegations and declined to investigate my home, my medical records in Orange County, Ca
and blah, blah. :O Incomprehensible, but she provides her contact info in case that's helpful.

People who are in rather desperate court situations come to assume that everyone is familiar with legal shorthand as they are.  It is similar to patients with chronic illnesses talking together.  

Women who are going to lose their children are desperate whether they are good, bad or "merely vaguely present" mothers. When their children are gone they are not even mothers.  This is true even if the children are better off in a court determined setting.

Personally, I don't think that any MSW should be in child protective services more than 10 years (or even less).  They burn-out and either follow "keep the family together" scripts, or "the parents are all swine- grab the kids" scripts.  I have seen both be deadly.  This is one of the main reasons I quit psychiatry- social workers ignoring my advice and children being killed (the father later executed, and the mother given a life sentence) following a "keep them together" script (with religious overtones).  There have also been suicides and murders from following the "grab the kids" script.

Maybe some sort of rotation between programs might work.  

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.

Date: 2007/07/07 01:56:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with your sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Much worse than some pathetic person's cyber attacks against the social worker who took her children.  Wesley, you are just a minor side issue

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.



Date: 2007/07/07 02:40:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 07 2007,01:58)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,01:56)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
 
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with you sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Worse than some pathetic woman's random attacks.

The fact that he deserves no credibility might not matter.

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.

That is poor form from Ed. do you have a link?

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +athiest

or

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +alcoholic

Ed Brayton is a close friend of Wesley's. I am sorry.  He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.  

He, and Tim Sandefur, like many "former" Nazis post 1948, will insist they do not support all of the party line.

I am unimpressed. Sandefur's bosses have just scored a predictable victory favoring  racial segregation under the protection of the far-right dominated Supreme Court.

If creationism ever gets back to the SCUS, nobody should expect a repeat of 1987.  The same policies promoted by Brayton and Sandefur are in direct opposition of the 1987 Court.  Dover will be a wisp. The religious right and their "libertarian" tools will eliminate Roe v Wade as soon as it can be evaporated.  These people are as big, if not bigger, enemies of modern liberal society as Behe, Dembski, Johnson, Ham or Hovind.  Add, Bush, Cheney, Libby, Gonzales and the rest of the neofascists.

We are doomed.

I hope I am wrong.

Date: 2007/07/07 02:52:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2007,23:05)
Crandiddly's latest.  About people, as they create designs:
             
Quote
It seems obvious that one cannot “see” designers or directly perceive via the external senses some intrinsic property of being designed any more than one can “see” the experiential substance of thought in another person’s head. In order for there to exist design, there must necessarily exist an intentional representation of the pattern to be designed in the designer’s mind, and intentional representations aren’t the sort of things that be experienced or “observed” from a third-person perspective and through the external senses. Physical bodies and events are worthless to a design inference because intentionality is to be found nowhere in the senseless movements, collisions, and interactions of spatiotemporal material bodies.

Obviously.

Wow. Really makes me think about my sink.  

Many years ago my wife and I remodeled our kitchen.  We produced sketches, refined them through many iterations, and eventually produced plans using the old MacDraw II program. This took many weeks.  It was pretty successful.  

Had you watched this activity, you would not have seen the designers responsible for the layout of our kitchen, nor the process of design.  Sure, you would have witnessed bodies moving, mouths and limbs working, papers and bits shuffling about, the occasional marital obligation, but would have seen no designers, and no designing.  It would have been obvious that the process of design consisted not in the production of crude material representations expressed verbally, rendered on paper, and eventually transferred to the 2D MacDraw canvas - but in invisible subjective representations created and manipulated by our non-material, intentional selves. The real designers were hidden behind the manipulation of those representations in non-material representational space through intentional acts of nonphysical consciousness, obviously not amenable to observation by any third party.

Miraculously, however, perhaps by means of our collective pineal glands, these representations reached across the chasm that stands between non-material, intentional representations and the ordinary material substances and processes of our bodies and brains. They tugged motor neurons (which tuggings were smoothed by cerebellar computation) and muscle twitches (flapping tongues, contracting limbs) that produced paper and Macintosh-based representations. These physical representations were conveyed to our Italian cabinetmaker (Nunzio!) who again (obviously) transformed these blind physical forces into non-material representations available only to him - which in turn tugged and pulled upon HIS brain, bone and sinew to operate saws, sanders and nail guns to produce our cabinets.

Clearly, a materialist account of this feat is confronted by intractable obstacles. It continues to baffle me how any intelligent person who devotes much thought to this position could continue to hold it.  

(And you probably think THIS is a sink.)

Holy Bugger Offeriski

I spent much of today replacing the faucet in our kitchen!

Who could have ever predicted this awe inspiring random coincidence. So, it is life the "sink" as a low spot equaled the increased in the 2nd Law buggered head to toe with the Janitorial Filter.

It is all so clear now.....

Date: 2007/07/07 03:37:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Gary's real problem is with anyone calling themselves a libertarian. Now, if someone wants to disagree with libertarian views, I've got no problem with that; I disagree with some of them myself. But when the very mention of the word sends you into fits of apoplectic and irrational rage, as it does to Gary, something's gone haywire. Actually, that's Gary's secondary problem. His real problem is that he's a drunk, which only makes his fanatical hatred of all things religious and non-liberal that much more unstable and likely to result in him making an ass of himself in public. It also appears to make him lie rather badly:


Ed in full bray.  Actually worse than the "attack" against Wesley.

There is an old phrase, "You are known by your enemies."  In that case I am pleased, I can count not only Ed Brayton, but Jon Sarfati, Carl Weiland, and Jonathan Wells as enemies.

Ed is in his natural clade.



Date: 2007/07/10 14:47:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I sincerely appreciate all of you for reading and commenting on UD and OWEei so that I am spared that onerous task.  I have had far more laughter reading ATBC than any other E/C website.

Date: 2007/07/12 17:11:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 12 2007,11:57)
Quote
But man, a story with Nephilim, Dinosoars, an exploding Earth would be pretty exciting.

Dinosoars?  I guess they would be the pterodactyls.

Bob

OOOHH.  I want graphic sex between the bene elohim and the daughters of man to produce those Nephilim dudes.

Date: 2007/07/12 17:22:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (JAM @ July 12 2007,14:28)
Why aren't there any creationist fossil hunters?

Welcome.  I have enjoyed your noble efforts to bring light to the dark bowels of UD.

Sadly, there are creationist fossil hunters.  Lots of them.



Date: 2007/07/12 18:40:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH


I am busy right now.

Date: 2007/07/12 19:50:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (GCT @ July 12 2007,18:22)
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 12 2007,18:48)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2007,17:11)
OOOHH.  I want graphic sex between the bene elohim and the daughters of man to produce those Nephilim dudes.

And that whole "Noah's daughters getting him drunk and trying to screw him" thingie . . . .

Ya know, in all honesty, I don't understand why the porn-meisters haven't made an XXX-rated version of the Bible.  Heck, just in Genesis, there's enough sex to make a 2-hour video.  Beats heck out of "Flesh Gordon".

Hey, I wonder why the FUNDIES haven't gone ahead with that project.  Just think how many poor lost sinner souls they could, uh, reach with it . . . . And ya know, so many of them have longstanding experience with porn, like Bakker and Swaggart, that there'd be no lack of technical advisors . . . .

(thinks about it for a moment)

OK, let's do it.  Who wants to help put up the funding?    I'll volunteer to play "Adam".     No, no --- on second thought, I want to be "Noah".  That way I get, what, two or three "daughters" at once . . . . ?      ;)






(There ya go, FTK.  There's something else for you to bitch about.  Enjoy.  Sorry there are no retards involved.  But hey, I'm willing to try anything, ya know.)

I think you want to be Lot, not Noah.  Lot got his daughters preggers.  Noah had sons.

Yeah, Noah got banged by his son Ham after he passed out drunk, Gen 9:21. That was why there were slaves from Africa until the Christians invented different reasons, like the pre-Adamites.

Hubert (I am not a creationist) Yockey quotes Gilbert and Sullivan's 1885 "The Mikado" in his attack on origin of life research.  He does not comment that the lyric begins "I am in point of fact a particularly haught and exclusive person of pre-Adamite ancestry descent."  Rather he blathers on about Ernst Haeckel

Date: 2007/07/12 20:24:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have written a 7+ page article on Psalm 89 (unfinished).  In the  that piece I note that, "In a theme that will later be written and added to the Bible as Genesis 1, the God of Israel, Yahweh or El (formal plural Elohim), is credited with the creation of the ancient powers of Heaven and Earth, the defeat of primordial chaos (the sea), and (in common with Canaanite El) the creation of all other gods and the Assembly of Gods (bene elohim).

The sources for the entire praise hymn in Psalm 89:5-14 can be drawn back to the pre-monarchy, even pre-exodus period of 1,400-1,300 BC.  The Ba'l Haddu epics are known from about that time, and they serve as the bulk of the later part of the hymn.  The opening verses 5-8 are also part of that tradition, but reflect the association of Yahweh and the supreme Canaanite god El.  The mixed use of El, and Yahweh within the hymn places this composition to around 1,100 BCE.  The next portion of the psalm brings the story forward from the pre-Exodus era to the time of the Davidic Covenant, or also about 1000 BCE."  

In the pre-exhilic portion that is attested in Ugaritic tablets is a banquet hosted by El for the "host of El" or "the sons of God."  Most of the tablet is a list of beverages served, which included "a nursing woman for every pair of celebrants."  I had to read that a few times.  The opening lines of the praise hymn in Psalm 89, vss. 5-8, identify Yahweh by His renown within the "assembly of the holy ones" (v.5), the sons of the heavenly beings  (v.6), the council of the holy ones (v.7), and in verse 8 God Yahweh is identified as the "God of hosts" "surrounded by his faithful."  The name Yahweh in verse 8 balances the name El used in verse 7 (see also Gen 33:22 El elohe yisra'el literally "El, god of the patriarch Israel."  The council/assembly/host/"sons of" are the very same bene elohim from Genesis 6:2, "the sons of God" providing an answer to the question of who God spoke to in Genesis 3:22.  The Council of Yahweh is biblically also attested in Psalm 82, the 'adat El , or literally "Council of El."  We can now see that the hearld Ethan while praising God is reminding all, even Yahweh!, that the Divine Covenant was properly witnessed by the Council of the Gods.  

What a party!

Date: 2007/07/12 22:07:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am snacking on the smoked remains of those albacore.  Look up the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, and the Pacific Legal Foundation.  Brayton and Sandefur are vocal supporters.  Sandefur works for the PLF which had a big victory resegregating public schools this month.  

Then read;

Gore, Al
2007 Assault on Reason

Phillips, Kevin
2006  American Theocracy New York: Viking Press

Mooney, Chris
2005  The Republican War on Science New York: Basic Press

Got to go.

Date: 2007/07/13 12:09:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (djmullen @ July 13 2007,02:23)
If anybody here wants to absolutely laugh their butts off while watching a good, straight forward exposition of (part of) the Old Testament, then you want to get a DVD of "The Real Old Testament", which is surely the funniest Biblical movie ever made.

That was a fun video.  I also enjoyed the scene where Abraham was going to kill his son and God tells him it was just a joke.  The boy mutters, Fuckers!" as he walks back down the hill.

Date: 2007/07/14 13:27:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Mike Argento of the York Daily Record, has an excellent article on the Libbby wash.

Date: 2007/07/14 13:44:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I see that "Exploring Evolution" is not available on Amazon.  Since I only buy creationist books used or remaindered, it will be a while before I read this one.

I got a copy of Behe's latest book already for $11.  Since it was a new copy, I suppose it was considered overstock.



Date: 2007/07/15 14:02:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Last night I read "Evolution Exposed," a stinking pile of crap smeared on paper by Paul G. Humber.  It was disgusting.

I had to read it as part of the longish response to Weikart that I am working on sporadically.  Humber likes to email people and then use their replies as "gotchas."  He goes on for some while about Lenny without ever mentioning him by name.

I realized that he had sent me several emails years ago.  I told him that I didn't respond to individual emails about E/c, (I don't), and that he should post these to the TO newsgroup where I would reply.

I have also just finished reading

Morris, Henry M.
1974 "The Troubled Waters of Evolution" San Diego: Creation-Life Publishers.

All for the same critical review of Weikart.  These will only be a tiny observation that the creationist lies about Darwin+Hitler are not original, that they have been essentially unmodified for over 30 years, that Weikart is well known to creationists as a fellow believer (notable in Humber of course), and that Weikart has nothing new to offer.

PS:  If I live another 8 months I'll set an all family male longevity record.  I cannot understand why I waste so much time reading creationist crap.  Oh Well.



Date: 2007/07/15 14:06:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 14 2007,16:46)
Add Miyamoto Musashi's "Book of Five Rings", too.

I liked that one the best of the three mentioned.

Date: 2007/07/23 18:12:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This has wandered so far from the OP that I thought that it would be OK to indulge in a little speculation.

On this Wednesday the US House of Rep's justice committee is going to vote on contempt citations against Harriet Miers and Joshua Bolten.  The White House has demanded that the US Justice Dept not respond.

So, is the next step to impeach Gonzales?

Date: 2007/08/14 21:55:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks.  This is a sort of feedback we welcome, but don't always reply to on the feedback page.  Personaly, I add a mention to the acknowledgements.

Date: 2007/08/14 22:08:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I obsessivly have tracked down and read a dozen or so articles on the Steve McIntyre temperature correction issue.

What a bunch load of lame-ass right-wing jackassery!

I was primed yesterday for this when I was out fishing.  An 80+ year old, retired engineer, über-conservative fishing buddy asked if I had heard that "global warning was bunk? Yeah, it was proved by a Canadian!  NASA won't let anybody know."

I am too pissed for a BB comment.

I'll be on it tomorrow.

Date: 2007/08/14 22:56:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Jo que, I have been given access to the topic text.  I have not read much yet, nor have I had time to read all the comments.  But I will do so I promise.

Soon, very soon.

Date: 2007/08/17 16:52:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Hooooie.......

Man that was strong shit.

Date: 2007/08/21 15:38:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Aug. 20 2007,14:19)
Well heck, let's invite Meyer in here to discuss the matter.

Since, it appears,  *Nelson*  doesn't have the ping-pongs for it . . . .

(snicker)  (giggle)

More like marbles, or BBs

Date: 2007/08/28 18:39:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Before deleting, I think Wes should check to see if this is the same asswipe that was bombing TalkOrigins.

Date: 2007/08/31 22:24:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I'm sorry I posted at all.

Date: 2007/09/01 13:46:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH


I thought this was interesting.

UD=blue, PT, Talkorigins=green

This was much more fun;






Date: 2007/09/02 15:01:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
If you are looking for book recommendations about Intelligent Design creationism from scientific or historical points of view, I offer the following;

Mark Perakh
2003 Unintelligent Design New York: Prometheus Press

Niall Shanks and Richard Dawkins
2004 God, the Devil, and Darwin: A Critique of Intelligent Design Theory Oxford University Press

Robert T. Pennock (Editor)
2001 Intelligent Design Creationism and Its Critics: Philosophical, Theological, and Scientific Perspectives MIT Press

Matt Young, Taner Edis (Editors),
2004  Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism Rutgers University Press

Barbara Carroll Forrest, Paul R. Gross
2004 Creationism's Trojan Horse: The Wedge of Intelligent Design Oxford University Press

Brockman, John (editor)
2006  Intelligent Thought: Science versus the Intelligent Design Movement (2006, New York: Vintage Press/Random House)

There was actually little to commend Brockman et al, but the rest are very good.



Date: 2007/09/05 10:34:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (k.e @ Sep. 04 2007,09:37)
Part paid and no return from this horses mouth

 
Quote
...In 2002, Dembski published No Free Lunch and requested a second installation payment on the Book Grant from the Templeton Foundation (Dembski, 2002).  In correspondence with him, he was told by me that this book did not fulfill his obligation to publish a work on metaphysics and theology as detailed in his book proposal entitled Being as Communion.  That book has still not been produced.


The Case of the Missing Book: Setting the Record Straight on William Dembski, the Templeton Foundation, and Intelligent Design

Oh My:

Quote
Dembski continues in his Metanexus essay:

   ?Repeatedly I've been asked to distance myself not only from the obstreperous likes of Phillip Johnson but especially from the even more scandalous young earth creationists?  I'm prepared to do neither??15  

And there with comes the rub.  One can legitimately debate the meaning of evolution and how it occurs.  

These are engaging and difficult issues in science, philosophy, and the theology of nature.16  On the other hand, it is pretty stupid to choose as one?s allies those who deny the overwhelming accumulation of evidence in favor of a long Earth history and the transmutation of species. (bold by gh)

Date: 2007/09/15 18:44:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ Sep. 14 2007,08:02)
(Oops, forgot. I happen to be moving my personal goalposts. And why not?) ;)

MMMmmmm shifting personal goalposts   That shimmy!

Date: 2007/09/16 21:19:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Excellent satire.  I thought you gave it away with your opening line about disappearing before it appeared, "it was gone before it was there."  Only if it were never there.

I did have to read it twice though, and finally concluded that Dembski could never appear so reasonable.  When he screws up he becomes driven to justify and deny that he screwed up.



Date: 2007/09/19 09:45:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Splurty has spamed this list of questions all over the intertubes.  He merely ignor replies, or engages warp 7 goalposts.

in responce to spurtstuf's question #1

Quote
"Island Biogeography of Populations: An Introduced Species Transforms Survival Patterns"
   Thomas W. Schoener, Jonathan B. Losos, David A. Spiller
   Science 16 December 2005: Vol. 310. no. 5755, pp. 1807 - 1809

   Population phenomena, which provide much of the underlying basis for the theoretical structure of island biogeography, have received little direct study. We determined a key population trait—survival—in the Bahamian lizard Anolis sagrei on islands with an experimentally introduced predatory lizard and on neighboring unmanipulated islands. On unmanipulated islands, survival declined with several variables, most notably vegetation height: The island with the shortest vegetation had nearly the highest survival recorded for any lizard. On islands with the introduced predator, which forages mostly on the ground, A. sagrei shifted to taller vegetation; unlike on unmanipulated islands, its survival was very low on islands with the shortest vegetation but was higher on the others. Thus, species introduction radically changed a resident species' relation of survival to a key island-biogeographical variable.


There is also;

Quote
"Evolutionary Biology: Catching Lizards in the Act of Adapting"
   Virgina Morrell
   Science 2 May 1997:
   Vol. 276. no. 5313, pp. 682 - 683

   Twenty years ago, evolutionary biologists transplanted small populations of Anolis sagrei lizards from Staniel Cay in the Bahamas to several nearby tiny islands, all of which had been lizard-free. The researchers expected the reptiles to go extinct, but by 10 to 14 years later, the animals appeared to be undergoing the kind of body changes that in time could turn each island's population into a separate species. If the changes are genetic, the study would be strong evidence that isolated populations diverge by natural selection, not by genetic drift, as some theorists have argued.


Which was a discussion of :

Quote
"Natural selection out on a limb"
   Ted J. Case
   Nature 387, 15 - 16 (01 May 1997)

   and

"Adaptive differentiation following experimental island colonization in Anolis lizards"
   Jonathan B. Losos, Kenneth I. Warheitt, Thomas W. Schoener
   Nature 387, 70 - 73 (01 May 1997)

   If colonizing populations are displaced into an environment that is often very different from that of their source1, they are particularly likely to diverge evolutionarily, the more so because they are usually small and thus likely to change by genetic restructuring or drift2,3. Despite its fundamental importance, the consequence of colonization for traits of founding populations have primarily been surmised from static present-day distributions1,2,4,5, laboratory experiments6 and the outcomes of haphazard human introductions, rather than from replicated field experiments. Here we report long-term results of just such an experimental study. Populations of the lizard Anolis sagrei, introduced onto small islands from a nearby source, differentiated from each other rapidly over a 10–14-year period. The more different the recipient island's vegetation from that of the source, the greater the magnitude of differentiation. Further, the direction of differentiation followed an expectation based on the evolutionary diversification of insular Anolis over its entire geographic range. In addition to providing a glimpse of adaptive dynamics in one of the most extensive generic radiations on earth, the results lend support to the general argument that environment determines the evolution of morphology.

Date: 2007/09/19 15:23:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (k.e @ Sep. 18 2007,09:14)
I wish someone would sue spineless invertebrate's

Can you sue congress?

Date: 2007/09/19 15:43:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (slpage @ Sep. 18 2007,18:04)
Ah, Superspammer finds yet another place to regurgipost.

So, Sport - have you figgered out where RNA transcripts come from?

Know what "information" is?

Read my post explaining how Pellionisz isn't really telling you the whole truth about junkDNA?

Nah - you don't read stuff....

Dr. Page!  How you be?

At least no chance that the AtBC regulars might take sporty seriously.

Date: 2007/09/19 15:47:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (slpage @ Sep. 18 2007,18:39)
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 18 2007,16:09)
Quote (blipey @ Sep. 18 2007,16:07)
supersport:    
Quote
bodies and minds get passed down, not genes.


I don't suppose you want to support this with anything?  Especially the bolded part?

if evos can say "genes" or the "genome" get passed down without any proof then I can say the mind can get passed down.  Neither is science.

So, when your mommy and daddy touched their thingies together, they really put their minds and bodies in mommiy's woowoo, not a sperm and an egg each with half of the diploid complement of chromosomes?

I'm shocked!

Wow, now that's a head job, or a Head Case.

Date: 2007/09/19 20:04:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 19 2007,14:51)
By the way, just to follow up on DR GH's comment about Anolis lizards (and their legs) proving natural selection...

No sort'a stupid, you asked:

Quote
1) Show me one instance where science transplanted a group of animals to a new environment and observed them for multiple generations to see if new traits quickly/purposefully/nonrandomly emerged.


I showed you two.  You are too stupid to even follow your own questions.

Date: 2007/09/20 17:26:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
You guys that say, "Yo, I can quit anytime"  and "I'm not a creatotrad junckie, I only reply recreationally" are liars.

Face it, you are all strung out.  With UD in self destruct mode, your pathetic need for the C-tard drives you to reply to one of the sickest tard pushers on the entertubes.

I'll stick with beer.



Date: 2007/09/20 19:09:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,17:02)
With that, I repeat that this thread is worthy of locking.  Any seconds?

I can't agree here.  StupidSplurt is an excellent argument aginst creationism for anyone with the wit to follow references and to actually read them.

Date: 2007/09/21 12:50:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It is interesting to watch Dembski turn the "EvoInfoLab" into a fantasy laboratory with fantasy test tubes, and fantasy "real science."

Quote
DR.DR. BD "Baylor President John Lilley remains the problem — he continues to dig in his heels and won’t let the Evolutionary Informatics Lab back on campus."
At most Lilley won't let Dembski back on campus (for good reason) and won't let the campus web servers host a load of crap.  (Personally, I would let the servers host the crap).  But, Dembski thinks that information is the only reality- so a pretend "lab" is very likely real in his thoughts. Psychotics commonly treat their hallucinations as real, after all they can hear the voices.  It matters nothing that nobody else can hear them.

Date: 2007/09/21 13:19:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Hehehheh...

Since the post title said clearly "not a parody" I was sure that it was a parody.

I need to go fishing.

Date: 2007/09/22 16:22:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am going fishing for a few days.

Date: 2007/10/03 17:17:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
That's a good looking young woman and one really great fish.  I did fairly well last weekend:



He was part of a masters degree project tracking migration patterns of various deepwater fish.  He got an accostic transmiter and a shoulder tag and a 6 mile boat ride before release.

Here is a slightly smaller specimen:



Because we had to release them in good shape, I lost more blood than the fish did- even with their minor surgery. (Check out the teeth in the first photo).

Naturally, the really big one got away.  (really scary big)

Date: 2007/10/06 00:13:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 05 2007,16:53)
The real reason for this interest:


That is wonderful.  It only lacks farty noises.

Date: 2007/10/06 00:15:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Oct. 05 2007,18:38)
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 05 2007,23:21)
Denyse's blog name "Mindful hack" works on several different levels, albeit most of them not complimentary.

Whenever my peripheral vision picks up her blogname (in one of her blog-whoring posts) it registers as "mindf*ck".

Kinda spooky, really.

My too.  I am so relieved not to be alone anymore in this.

Date: 2007/10/08 21:47:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So?  Has the bathroom wall been lost from the PT?

It seems to have become merely a local AtBC playground.

I cannot say that I'd miss it.  Wes suggested it (As I Recall) wen we were devided about certain creationist idiots posting comments at PT.  The two I particularly recall were JAD and DaveScot.  GreatWhiteHope and a few others were also in the mix.

I was not interested because when the discussion became inane I closed the comments.  A lot of the irritating messing about of the PT template by Reed was motivated by the simple fact that people would not close the comments.

Date: 2007/10/09 16:59:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think that there has been a tremendous amount of thought exerted by Wes, and the other contributers to the D&M debunking.

Congratualtions and my thanks.

Date: 2007/10/09 20:47:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Oct. 09 2007,17:39)
My favorite quote from the book's blurb:
 
Quote
Based on extensive research with primary sources and archival materials, John G. West’s captivating Darwin Day in America tells the story of how American politics and culture have been corrupted by scientistic ideology.


Yeah, scientisticism.  It's responsible for all the mess we're in today.

Well sure!  George W. Bush was a war hero and nominated for many Nobels.  Lots of 'um.  All the time.

Date: 2007/10/10 23:11:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (keiths @ Oct. 10 2007,16:38)
Quote (BWE @ Oct. 10 2007,17:20)
Primatologist Suehisa Kuroda reports similar exchanges at Wamba: "A young female approached a male, who was eating sugarcane. They copulated in short order, whereupon she took one of the two canes held by him and left."

If that worked on humans, the price of sugarcane would quadruple overnight.

Haven't you ever heard the classic mythopoetic psychosocial analysis, "Candy is dandy, but Liquor is quicker."

Date: 2007/10/11 00:38:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 08 2007,03:41)
- Location set so as to borrow undeserved prestige

- Pronouncements made extolling its significance

Ain't that the truth.  I remember Dembski's clowns chanting "Princeton" over and over.

I think that a Waco Barbeque joint is plenty authentic.  A Princeton PO Box is a sham.  His Baylor website was a sham even Baylor couldn't stomach.

Date: 2007/10/12 14:48:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (blipey @ Oct. 12 2007,12:19)
Wow.  The featured article on wiki is intelligent design.  I wonder how many Udites are going to try and edit it.  Again.

I saw this morning that the creationists had trashed Carl Weiland's wiki biography.

Date: 2007/10/16 00:13:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
See, it's like this for me; I hate being wrong.  It makes me vomit.

So, I go to conferences and I give papers.  That way people can tell me right away if I am right or wrong, and I don't have to waste time writing it all out and sending in for review from only a few asswipes, who because they are experts in the same things I am an expert in, know who I am anyway. (Anonymous?  No way.  If you can't pick out two out of three of your reviewers you are not an expert.  I don't even try to be anonymous any more- it is useless).

So at a conference people- dozens or hundreds, will feel perfectly happy to tell you what they think. Especially in the hotel bar.  I got tenure and grants mostly by giving conference papers (eventually published in a Proceedings) and arguing face to face, and circulating manuscripts.  I once had 150 requests for a manuscript.  I never did publish it in a book, and it was too long for any journal.  Professional societies once had monograph series, but they had died due to high cost.

So, the deal is that being challenged by other people is much easier, and more fun than trying to keep yourself streight.  Some jack asses take it all personally, and once it has degraded to that point you might as well play that as well.  There is nothing wrong with dislikeing pig shit on your boots.  An interesting thing in my personal experience is that after people have made serious attempts to kill you, trivial threats made by trivial people are merely amusing.

Date: 2007/10/16 00:26:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So, on the point;

Quote
1) For the atheists/agnostics etc: What if you are wrong and god(s) do(es) exist? How would you feel and what would you do? What are the social, ethical and political ramifications of this, if any?
If there are creatures of the sort described as gods, they have evovled.  They might have knowledge and abilities I lack, but they are no more than beings.  I have knowledge and powers that my dog lacks.  He is only vagely aware of this, and is generally appreciative when I use my thumbs to open the food can. If confronted with a god I will endeavor to emulate my dog, and still remember that the bastard will fall asleep sometime.

Quote
3) For the scientists and people who accept modern evolutionary biology as the best explanation we currently have for the diversity of life on earth: What if you are wrong and IDC or YEC or whatever creationism you care to name is correct? How would feel and what would you do? What are the social, ethical and political ramifications of this, if any?
Well, the simple fact is that we are not wrong.  The sad fact is that we are not wrong.  It would be so much fun if there were little pixies, and ghosties and angels and even bad ol' thunder/fertility big daddy.

There isn't.  Sorry, I can't play that game except on PCRPGs or old style PnP D&D.  There are no gods.

Date: 2007/10/16 00:42:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The 6,000 year old earth isn't biblical either.

Date: 2007/10/16 12:12:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Rich, You did the bellbottoms!  Oh I liked those.

Date: 2007/10/19 18:01:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ Oct. 19 2007,06:13)
Is it just me or is Tard on the rise?

There just seems to be more of it about at the moment.

I attribute to an explosion of hamsters.  Several have been known to explode if properly prepared. This advance preparation is telegenesis which also means "becoming in advance of being."


It is also critical to backloading of meanful exchanges to understand that this has nothing to do with gerbles.  Or other rodents of unusual size.



Date: 2007/10/21 11:33:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Dembski:
Quote
Con la creación del Laboratorio de Informática Evolutiva de la Universidad de Baylor este mismo mes y el trabajo llevado a cabo por mi y mi colega Robert Marks acerca de la conservación de la información (del cual algunos artículos están disponibles en www.evolutionaryinformatics.org), creo que el DI está finalmente en posición de desafiar ciertos supuestos fundamentales de las ciencias naturales acerca de la naturaleza y del origen de la información. Creo que esto tendrá un gran impacto en la ciencia.
Bill is so modest.

There is more:
Quote
Este trabajo acaba de empezar y puede consultarse en www.evolutionaryinformatics.org. En cualquier caso, me veo como una parte de una comunidad investigadora vibrante y dinámica que está alcanzando rápidamente perspectivas interesantes.




Date: 2007/10/21 11:49:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
E. A.: El movimiento por el DI ha sido duramente atacado por académicos y periodistas. ¿Crees que sus críticas te han ayudado a mejorar tus propios puntos de vista o piensas que estos ataques son solo puro fanatismo? ¿Hay alguna crítica constructiva realizada por algún enemigo del DI?

W. D.: Parte de esas críticas son mezquinas y muestran una enorme ignorancia del trabajo de la comunidad del DI. Pero otras críticas han mostrado su valor. En relación a mi propio trabajo, gente como Jeffrey Shallit, Wesley Elsberry y Ken Miller han argumentado que no puede inferirse diseño en los sistemas biológicos porque esos sistemas que mis colegas y yo atribuimos al diseño pueden ser en realidad explicados por procesos evolutivos darvinistas. Al plantear sus refutaciones, me han obligado a examinar más de cerca el poder de los procesos evolutivos, de ahí mi trabajo en la informática evolutiva. Al profundizar en sus afirmaciones, me encuentro con que los procesos evolutivos sin guía no tienen el poder creativo que mis críticos les confieren y que, de hecho, siempre requieren tanta información como proporcionan. No siempre me gusta el espíritu de mis críticos, que no solo consiste en refutar mis ideas sino en desacreditar mi legitimidad como especialista. Pero las críticas en sí han sido muy útiles para motivar, clarificar y extender mis ideas.
The part I put in bold (losely translated), "I simply dislike the the spirit of my critics, who don't just try to refute my ideas, but also to discredit my legitimacy as an expert."  You meany bad critics.

Quote
M. L.: Tus críticos (Wein, Perakh, Shallit, Elsberry, Wolpert y otros) no parecen satisfechos con su trabajo. Te acusan de ser en cierto modo esotérico y carente de rigor intelectual. ¿Qué tiene que decir de esta acusación?

W. D.: La mayoría de estos críticos responden a mi libro No free lunch. Como expliqué en el prefacio de este libro, el objeto es proporcionar suficientes detalles técnicos como para que los expertos queden satisfechos, pero también suficiente contenido como para que el lector general pueda comprender la esencia de mi proyecto. El libro parece haberlo conseguido con el lector general y con algunos expertos aunque principalmente con aquellos que tienen una buena disposición para con el DI. En cualquier caso, quedó claro tras la publicación del libro que necesitaba poner a punto algunos detalles matemáticos, cosa que he estado haciendo recientemente (véase mis artículos contenidos en Mathematical Foundations of Intelligent Design en www.designinference.com), y que han sido abordados en profundidad y en colaboración con mi amigo y colega Robert Marks en el Laboratorio de Informatica Evolutiva (www.evolutionaryinformatics.org).


Ah, here it is (the translation above is actually good).

Quote
M. L.: ¿Evitas cuestiones difíciles?

W. D.: Claro que no. Pero lleva tiempo contestar a las cuestiones difíciles y he sido paciente para hacerlo. Encuentro interesante que ahora que he respondido a las cuestiones críticas con pleno rigor matemático (véase http://web.ecs.baylor.edu/faculty/marks/eil/Publications.html) ellos guarden, extrañamente, silencio. Por ejemplo Jeff Shallit, cuando le informé acerca de mi trabajo sobre la conservación de la información, me dijo que se negaba a hacerlo porque yo no había respondido de manera adecuada sus anteriores objeciones, pese a que el trabajo sobre la conservación de la información del que le estaba informando era precisamente en respuesta a sus objeciones. Igualmente, he contactado con Wolpert. Pero una vez que empecé a completar los detalles matemáticos de mi trabajo, guardó silencio. Quizás el silencio más sorprendente sea el Thomas Schneider, cuyo artículo sobre la evolución de la información biológica en Nucleic Acids Research (2000) afirma refutar a mi colega Michael J. Behe. Cuando Robert Marks y yo demostramos recientemente que su programa evolutivo era equivalente a una red neuronal y que trabajaba peor que el puro azar, también guardó silencio aunque en el pasado había respondido dentro del mismo día en su propia página web a cualquiera de mis críticas. Me he encontrado con que los darwinistas tienen por costumbre permanecer inconmovibles ante los problemas de su teoría e ignorar el mejor criticismo que se le plantea.


It is clear that Dembski had a huge emotional investment in the "Baylor Lab."  It was to be his academic redemption.  Instead, it repeated his defeat.



Date: 2007/10/21 13:04:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
M. L.: ¿Cree que estamos ante la aparición inminente de una teoría neo-saltacional en el marasmo de las ideas?

W. D.: No creo que la evidencia apoye un ancestro común universal, pero hay teóricos del diseño como Michael J. Behe que sí lo creen. Una teoría saltacionista de la diversificación de la vida es por consiguiente una opción basada en la teoría del diseño pero no es la única opción y no espero que dentro del movimiento del DI una posición cobre ventaja sobre otra.


My translation, "I don't believe the evidence supports that there was a universal common ancestor, but there are design theorists like Michael J. Behe who do."  (My translation is a bit stronger in attitude, but he did say "believe" not "think."  And he most definately says "universal common ancestor" not "universal common descent" as translated in the IDEA article).

Elsewhere I recall Dembski saying he had "no problem" with common ancestory.  He may be quibbling over "universal common ancestor" as opposed to some general sense of common ancestory of closely realated species.  From his remarks about the Cambrian explosion (only 5 to 10 million years, 550 Ma BCE), I expect he is thinking that it is there that all the designer's designing was designed.  A classic "God of the Gaps" position.



Date: 2007/10/22 01:31:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 21 2007,20:23)
Color me doubtful. I'd expect it to have been conducted in English.

Almost for sure the original was English.  Which brings up an interesting question, the English version is far milder than the Spanish.

Date: 2007/10/26 13:07:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (nuytsia @ Oct. 26 2007,06:06)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 24 2007,03:40)
   


My last.
I promise. :D

NO!  I want more! More, I tell you, more.

Date: 2007/10/27 00:06:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (nuytsia @ Oct. 26 2007,20:24)
It's funny but when I first came to this forum little did I imagine that I'd end up airbrush John Travolta's crotch.
It's strange where life takes you...

Airbrushed a crotch?  Goodness, did you give Dembski a penis, or remove one?

Date: 2007/10/27 18:08:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Another corollary to ID is that a particular organism’s genetic code will be relatively stable over many generations. Behe’s work confirms this prediction.

Cute.  Just how do "particular organism's" survive over many generations.  I could see two, or three.  There is ample genetic epidemiology to show that in particular, the genetic component of human sperm degrades with the age of the male.

You can fool the 2nd LoTD sum o' the time, but U can't get away with it all o' the time.

Date: 2007/10/30 14:13:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 30 2007,07:07)
LOOKS LIKE A BLAGELLA:

http://physorg.com/news112896152.html


OH NOES!!!!1111 IC. IC. CRUEL DESIGNER!

minor point,

 
Quote
“The genome is about 1,000 times longer than the diameter of the virus,” explained Douglas Smith, an assistant professor of physics at UCSD and co-author of the study. “It is the equivalent of reeling in and packing 100 yards of fishing line into a coffee cup, but the virus is able to package its DNA in under five minutes.”


I don't know the exact line weight Dr. Smith might have had in mind, but 100 yards of fishing line can easily fit into a coffee cup with a retrieval time of a minute or two.  A few weeks ago I bottom fished in 800 feet of water using 60lb test braided dacron line.  My retrieveal time was about 15 minutes, but that was with a 10 to 30 lb fish with very different ideas about which direction to go.  (A 4 lb lead weight slowed it down a bit as well).

One hundred yards of 12lb test, such as I was using yesterday, would easily pack into a coffee cup with a retrieval of a few minutes.

The real problem isn't the science, but credibility.  And any angeler otherwise disinclined to science would be quickly turned off by Dr. Smiths gaff.



Date: 2007/11/04 20:16:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 04 2007,18:01)
i think it's actually a picture of Jabba the Scot.

Well, DaveTard is healthy compared to Ed Brayton.

Date: 2007/11/05 16:50:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ Nov. 05 2007,14:15)
In hardback, The God Delusion has sold 326,694 copies. It's still selling 2000+ a week.

Paperback is due in January, at which time it will pick up again. By the end of next year, it's fairly likely there will be close to a million copies in print.

Where do you get these data?

I would like to know how "Why Intelligent Design Fails" compared with some of the IDC books.  I recall an email hat Rutgers was surprised that sales were as good as it happened.  I think there were 3 hardback, and 3 paperback printing.

Date: 2007/11/05 18:42:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ Nov. 05 2007,15:10)
Quote
Where do you get these data?

Nielson, the same company that does TV ratings, does books, too. It's a subscription service made available to me by my employer, a publishing house.

Why Intelligent Design Fails sold a few over 1000 copies in hardback, and has sold 890 in paper. It's still selling 5-10 a week. Its best week was quite an outlier: 115 copies in early August 2006. I wonder if a prominent review spurred that or if it was just a fluke. (Note that at $39.99, the hardback was considerably more expensive than some of the more popular titles published by trade presses.)

That's the last request I can do today. I need to do some real work, sadly.

Thanks for the information.  I would have to guess that the print runs were tiny then, because there were 2 or 3 for the hardcover.

(I told Mom not to by so many copies  :O  )  ;)

Date: 2007/11/06 11:47:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Nov. 06 2007,08:23)
well it seems to me that he's got it all wrong.

Observation:  

What's there:  Chocolate.

Question:  Why does it taste so good with peanut butter and not so good with tiny balls of shit?

....

First time I have laughed in three days.  Thanks!

Date: 2007/11/08 15:17:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 08 2007,08:41)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Nov. 08 2007,10:35)
by the way can you do the smiley face with the mustard on my baloney sandwich kristine?

Wow, I've never heard it called that before...







(I'll get my coat.)

I'll bring a barf bag

Date: 2007/11/08 20:53:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,12:24)
... and I'm tired of repeating the same shit day in, day out.

And I am tired of the same creationist shit year after year.  The same lies year after year, the same slanders year after year, the same whines year after year, the same threats year after year.

The same lies year after year.

The same lies year after year.

Why don't you shut the fuck up?

Date: 2007/11/12 21:15:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Mandolin, dulcimer, oud, guitar

Not in any order

Date: 2007/11/13 19:48:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am not looking at this thread until after the show.  We on the best coast still have 2.25 hours to wait.

LALALALALALLALALLA (I'm not looking)>>>


Actually, I have watched arguements in sign language.  Facinating, IF YOU SHOUT, you make signs BIG.  The ultimate power trip is to grab someones hands and sign with your free hand.  The maximo shutdown is to close your eyes, or to turn around.

Date: 2007/11/14 18:46:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Nov. 14 2007,13:54)
My ID inference:  The banninator button is broken.

Jason Rennie's remark:

 
Quote
Don’t be too hard on PBS. If you have an agenda to push and the facts get in the way then you just need new facts.

You can’t really blame them for adopting the tried and true approach to such things.

Of course, if they want to present it as science then that might be a problem. Unless of course it is ok to politicise science in this fashion. Darwinists seem to think so.


Poachy's response:
 
Quote
Seriously. They really ought to spend some time in the lab rather than just cranking out textbooks full of their unsupported assertions. The whole world would be better off it they’d just do some science.



http://www.uncommondescent.com/educati....-148294

I went crosseyed there and then blind.  I splashed beer down my throat and finally recovered.

It was close.

Date: 2007/11/14 18:52:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Hermagoras @ Nov. 14 2007,14:34)
I'm writing a review of Fuller's new book about ID.  I'll give more details soon.  

It's sad: I am a relativist postmodernist science studies type and I think Fuller gives us a really bad name.

Amen.

I thought that Fuller would be a great anti-IDC witness just by encouraging him to talk about what HE thought about IDC.

Date: 2007/11/15 21:06:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The recent trend in the UDerfailure subfora proposed a recurrent theme that the majority of DaveTard, BillyDuffus, and Barfo Spice's butt lickers are actually locals.  

So, when do you pull the string and make their heads go "bang?"

It needs to be coordinated for effect.

I suggest December 1st, this year.  You will have plenty of time to set up alternate IDs, err, well, you know...

Just post at the top UDer failure thread that you were a troll, and copy here with your "real" identity.  Of course, "real" means "local pretend name."

I expect to be very amused.

Date: 2007/11/16 14:26:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"philosophical pointillism"

That is a wonderful image.

Date: 2007/11/18 21:29:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Nov. 18 2007,18:41)
The trollery and puppetry actually make the place somewhat less entertaining. It's the genuine idiocy I enjoy most.

I agree.  That is why I suggest that all trolls unmask.  I recall that I suggested the first of December.  Just post to the top thread at UDer failure (a cow with no milk) that you have been a troll that the DI/ID infected twits failed to detect.

And then kick back.  It just does not seem funny to make fun of crap that is phoney from the start.



Date: 2007/11/21 20:53:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am just dropping the last swallow of a nice merlot, Smoking Loon.  Their cork logo is "whhooo, whhhoooo, cough, cough..."

Mostly I drink beer.

What will we talk about when UDerfailure goes dark?

I just listened to Dembski's presentation in Oklahoma last September.  It is available here.

He has a melt down or three.  But I did note that he recovered quickly and went right back on his script.  There is no way that he could keep current with UDerfailure, and the site hurt him bad with the UniO crowd.

Date: 2007/11/28 21:32:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ERV @ Nov. 28 2007,18:45)
Are you all serious?  It cant be.  It cant.  The animation voice is so stereotypical homosexual male.

It cant be him.

...........Can it?

See?  Thats what I mean.  How did I ever get tenure in Psychiatry when I couldn't spot a homosexual unless they were wearing a dress, or tried to grab my ass?

(Actually, I had a college friend who was sure he wasn't gay because he tried on a dress and wasn't turned on at all.  He was a dance major.  I hope I was never that naive).   :D



Date: 2007/11/28 22:00:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Matthews, Victor H., Don C. Benjamin
2006 “Old Testament Parallels: Law and Stories from the Ancient Near East” New York: The Paulist Press.

Sparks, Kenton L.
2005 “Ancient Texts for the Study of  the Hebrew Bible” Peabody PA: Hendrickson Publishers

Walton, John H.
2006 “Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament” Grand Rapids: Baker Academic Press

I recommend Sparks.  Skip the other two, and read

Dalley, Stephanie
2000 Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, The Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others. Revised Oxford: Oxford University Press

and

Finkelstein, Israel, Neil Silberman
2001 The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts    New York: The Free Press

Friedman, Richard Elliott
1987 Who Wrote the Bible? New York:Harper and Row (Paperback Edition)

instead.

I also dragged myself through 3 chapters of;

White, Joe, Nicholas Comminellis
2001 “The Demise of Darwin: Why Evolution Can’t Take the Heat” Green Forest AR: Master Books

My reaction is negative.

Date: 2007/11/29 18:52:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Nov. 29 2007,09:33)
He still can't bring himself to refer to SciAm as a magazine and not a journal, per se, of course.
The comment from DT must be read in its entirety in order to be able to savor the full flavor of its tardfulness.

I tend to agree that universities in the US fail to honor education, particularly public education.

The issue is economic, of course.  I was given tenure only after I pulled in more than I was paid in overhead=profit calculated as a presentage of direct costs.  I did this for years.  I then realized that in industry I was paid much better for about the same job.  Tenure is bullshit if you are able to stay productive.  Who needs tenure?  Now that I am slowing down, I suppose a 10 year glide down to retirement might be nice.

Maybe we can propose a new definition for tenure- ten years of hard work, ten more of maintaining altitude, and ten years of decline.

Date: 2007/11/30 00:21:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 29 2007,10:41)
Quote

They're implicitly calling for some kind of special affirmative action for tards.


So they'll be calling Steve Fuller as an expert witness?

 
Quote

[216]Q. Steve, let me ask you. Do the concerns you've referenced with respect to the peer system and its potential to stultify scientific progress in some cases explain why you're here?

[217]A. Well, yes. It seems to me that, because of the way -- I really do think, in many respects, the cards are stacked against radical innovative views from getting a fair hearing in science today because of the way peer review is run, the way in which resources are concentrated, and so forth, much more so than in the past actually.

It was a kind of much freer field back in the old days. And so there's a sense in which, unless special efforts are made to make space for views that do show some promise, okay, they're never actually going to be able to develop to the level at which then they could become properly testable and then their true scientific merit can be judged.

So special efforts have to be made. And in one of my earlier books, The Governance of Science, I actually talked about this as an affirmative action strategy with regard to disadvantaged theories.  It's not obvious in the normal system of science that these theories will get a fair hearing.

There was a heated discussion about how to approach Fuller, as  I hope you recall.  The anti-social science position, lead by Nick, was to discredit Fuller in the same way that the creationists tried to discredit Forest.  I recommended encouraging Fuller to describe his reasons to support ID.  I recall writing, “The trial is not about Fuller v. Gross, or about deconstructionist theory.”  Or something like that.

I think my position was implemented and successful.

Date: 2007/12/02 01:53:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mister DNA @ Dec. 01 2007,21:32)
Quote (Altabin @ Dec. 01 2007,22:42)
   
Quote
Which is, like, curtains, for Darwin’s theory.

STOP PRESS! DO'L is a sockpuppet!  She's being played by Shaggy!  RUH-ROH!

Jinkies! Whatever became of Velma?

She got hit by an stupidish ray-gun?

No kidding, I just had to go and throw-up half my sandwitch. Careful with those Photos, OK?



Date: 2007/12/02 02:22:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So, I get challenged on a minor YEC dominated site about some biblical sources.

I am told that I don't read the "right" books, so I have no idea what the Bible says.  Mind you, I have read the Bible.  And I have read thousands of pages about the Bible, particulary the Old Testament, and particularly those parts related the the creationist doctrine.

So that last month I have read;

Brown F., Driver S., Briggs C.
2007 (reprint from 1906) “Hebrew and English Lexicon: With an Appendex Containing the Biblical Aramaic: With Strong’s Numbering”  Peabody Mass: Hendrickson Publishers (The Strong’s catalog #s was added by Hendrickson Publishers).
(All the expository material)

Matthews, Victor H., Don C. Benjamin
2006 “Old Testament Parallels: Law and Stories from the Ancient Near East” New York: The Paulist Press.

Sparks, Kenton L.
2005 “Ancient Texts for the Study of  the Hebrew Bible” Peabody PA: Hendrickson Publishers

Strong, James (author), revised and edited Kohlenberger, James R. III, Swanson, James A.
2001 edition (original 1894) “The Strongest Strong’s exhaustive concordance of the Bible (KJV) for the 21st Century”  Grand Rapids: Zondervan.
(All the expository material)

Walton, John H.
2006 “Ancient Near Eastern Thought and the Old Testament” Grand Rapids: Baker Academic Press

While working through the books above, I had occasion to reread parts of

Dalley, Stephanie
2000 Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, The Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others. Revised Oxford: Oxford University Press

Cross, Frank Moore
1973 Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic: Essays in the History of the Religion of Israel.  Boston: Harvard University Press

Dahood, Mitchell
1965 Psalms I, 1-50: Introduction, Translation and Notes  New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday

Speiser, E. A.
1962 "Genesis: Introduction, Translation and Notes"  New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday

Schmandt-Besserat, Denise
1992 Before Writing Volume I:  From counting to cuneiform Austin: University of Texas Press


These are all excellent books.

Really. Almost.  Well, Walton is a wussie.  He hides from any hard questions about the Bible.  Matthews and Benjamin give such short lumps of Ancient Near Eastern (AKA Syropalistine) texts that you must read Schmandt-Besserat, Dalley, as well as

Black, Jeremy, Anthony Green, Tessa Rickards (illustrator)
2003 "Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia" Austin: University of Texas Press

Blenkinsopp, Joseph
1992 The Pentateuch: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Bible The Anchor Bible Reference Library  New York: ABRL/Doubleday

Finkelstein, Israel, Neil Silberman
2001 The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology’s New Vision of Ancient Israel and the Origin of Its Sacred Texts    New York: The Free Press

Friedman, Richard Elliott
1987 Who Wrote the Bible? New York:Harper and Row (Paperback Edition)

Anyway a good start.

Date: 2007/12/04 17:48:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
What kind of future does Gonzales have now that he's made himself the IDC poster boy victim and the details of his loony ideas are plastered all over north america?


Blow up a ballon, and draw a picture of GG on it.  Put it in the toilet and flush over and over.  That is what his chances look like.

Date: 2007/12/04 18:32:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I didn't make a post, but I modified one in edit mode.

There, I did it again.

I can do it over and over- wink wink nudge nudge.



Date: 2007/12/05 07:49:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Dec. 04 2007,18:59)
D@mn, I missed this; MacT quoting Luskin's piece on the Gonzalez tenure case:
 
Quote


From the full article:
“Dr. Gonzalez is not teaching intelligent design in classes. The majority of his research is based on astronomy and cosmology. He has stellar reputation as cosmologist and astrologer. Why wouldn’t you want a great scientist like that on your staff?” Luskin said.

A “stellar reputation as” . . . an astrologer?

That's too funny.

Luskin is obviously following the direction of Prof. Mike Behe, who admitted under oath that ID creationism was "scienec" to the same extent as astrology. (Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District Trial transcript: Day 11 (October 18), PM Session, Part 1) (Linked with my name above).

*I Could have edited "scienec" if I had wanted to, but I didn't. But I did edit to add this note.  HaHa



Date: 2007/12/05 07:58:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 04 2007,22:28)
Hey, all you people who've actually voted on tenure?

Does alluding to a potential tenure case before it comes up actually open a review board to lawsuits? If so, what's the justification behind the legal precedent in question? It seems like it'd be a bizarre prohibition to me, but if there is such a prohibition it's the only part of the entire case that isn't founded on bad logic from the very beginning.

I was asked my opinion of a candidate before the committee membership was firmed up.  I was very critical of the candidate, but I had been for several years.  The dept chair asked me to be on the committee, but I delcined.  Instead I wrote my opinion, and submitted it to the committee.

I haven't seen in the DI press releases which emails were by committee members, or from department faculty/students to committee members.

A tenure committee is not legaly required to behave as a trial jury.  They can have, and should have opinions.

Date: 2007/12/05 08:19:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Unfortunately the "astrologer" comment was an error at the newspaper.  Wes posted it to Panda's Thumb.

(Not edited)

Date: 2007/12/05 08:22:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ Dec. 03 2007,01:59)
I love the day after a hangover, the sky is brighter, the twitterings of birds are beautiful, the grass is greener, and I can walk around happy in the knowledge that I won't be pissing blood at any point in the day.*

Louis

*Ok, slight exaggeration, I never actually piss blood, but I thought it was a good hangover metaphor type thingy.

I have pissed blood, but only following unusual events (like being beat with ax handles).

Date: 2007/12/07 12:53:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (BopDiddy @ Dec. 07 2007,10:47)
Back to the tard, this time courtesty the good Dr Dr:

 
Quote
The ID community is committed to a culture of rational discourse, and that means freedom of expression for all parties to a debate.

The only Kitzmiller expert witness the Dover defence really tried to disqualify was Forrest.  They were properly scared.  

She reamed IDC.  :D

Date: 2007/12/07 16:59:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH


Lead poisoning, who said lead poisoning?

Date: 2007/12/07 17:02:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dheddle @ Dec. 07 2007,13:16)
Even in UD-land I find the fact of Dembski renewing his challenge to debate Barbara Forrest sort of beyond the pale. Given all that has transpired, for him essentially to call her a sissy is—unfriggin’ believable.

Not only that, but those Southern Chicks are tuff.  She would beat his ass purple.  (They learn that early from their Mammas).

Date: 2007/12/09 12:57:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Assassinator @ Dec. 09 2007,08:02)
... he almost refuted to accept arguments from TalkOrigins because he says they're produced by atheïstic madmen.

I resemble that remark! (Groucho Marx, sometime ago)

Date: 2007/12/10 18:34:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Annyday @ Dec. 10 2007,12:23)
EXPLANATION!

Quote
Larry Fafarman
Can you enlighten me as to how “punctuated equilibrium” is not just an evolutionary gloss on an ID event - by those who recognize the evidence, but do not have the guts of Abraham to declare its true cause?

I think they really meant the foreskin of Abraham.  Abraham was going to spill his son's guts, while he only cut off the end of his dick.

Date: 2007/12/10 23:03:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 10 2007,20:42)
ID interest back on the rise?

http://www.google.com/trends?....&sort=0

Perhaps it's "expelled the movie"

Without a question "Expelled" will be a major debate topic for the next year, or two.

We are dealing with implacable evil bastards.  I see that it may literaly be a fight to the death.

Date: 2007/12/10 23:19:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The article on flash flood mortality used by AFDave gives us a good illustration (for those not already familiar with him) or how he uses information. He makes gross errors, and then sweeping conclusions based on those errors. Here is how AFDave misinterpreted the article:

Quote
   ... says that "Ninety-three percent of the deaths [studied] were due to drowning ..." There is not a single mention of being "beat to death" as a cause. I would invite you to provide even a single study which mentions ANY cases of people being "beat to death" by a flash flood.


AFDave has keyed on the percentage of deaths reported as drowning, 93. He has not thought about the circumstances reported at all, nor the relevance of this paper to the discussion at hand. First, the summary report cited by AFDave was based on those in which 30 or more deaths had occurred. (Obviously some reports tallied fewer than 30 deaths). So, these are all large events, many fatalities and cause of death data is suspect- faced with stacks of bodies pulled from riverbanks or submerged cars, “drowning” comes rather automatic. The report AFDave claims to have studied acknowledged the problem of incomplete reports.

   
Quote
Causes of death. Causes of death were given in 16
   of the 32 reports. They covered only 190 (15 percent)
   of the deaths; all such information was incomplete.


Only half the reported floods with numerous deaths gave any cause of death. Of the deaths due to drowning;

   
Quote
Of these 190 deaths, 177 (93 percent)
   were due to drowning. A large portion (42 percent)
   of these drownings were car related; for example,
   victims had been in cars that were driven into low
   areas, across flooded bridges, or off the road into
   deep water.


Both Glenn and I were describing the sediment load of a flash flood on tissue. Soft stuff like meat and bones will be smashed. If there were lots of shrimp driving around during Noah’s Flood, they might have drowned too. Other drowning deaths were from people who died in their homes following dam failures. These were about a third of all deaths in the report. The parallel applied to AFDave’s muddle would be that a third of all fossil burrows have the animal still present. Sorry, not so. What a little careful reading shows is that about 72 percent of all deaths reported as “drowning” are people in protective structures; homes or cars. These are irrelevant to the “AFDAVE FLOOD MUDDLE.”

What are relevant considerations? With regard to the lethality of high velocity sediments, the report cited by AFDave included a small number of events; “Heavy rains associated with topographical factors (canyon, mountains, arroyo), # of events 7, # of deaths 297. The average deaths per event was 43, only exceeded by dam breaks. How is it that flash floods in relatively isolated mountain canyons are so deadly? Because people are swept off when they are smashed by rocks, and held under not by water pressure but the massive weight of clay, silt, sand, gravels, and rocks. Any water in their lungs (technically “drowning”) was probably their last attempt to scream as they went down.

Oh and let’s look at the stupid bravado AFDave tossed in, “There is not a single mention of being "beat to death" as a cause. I would invite you to provide even a single study which mentions ANY cases of people being "beat to death" by a flash flood.” In Table 5 of the article cited by AFDave in support of is Muddle, we find the entry for cause of death, “Trauma.” In medico-legal terms, “Trauma” is “beat to death.” AFDave will no doubt consol himself that there were only 2 trauma deaths in the table. I don’t really care, but his triumphal crowing was a challenge to find “even a single study” of “ANY” (Luv yer capitalization, asswipe) death due to trauma.

The paper he was demanding I produce was right on his screen.

And this is a final observation about AFDave and his jerkoff “scholarship:” it is shallow, it is sloppy, it is premature, and he reaches wrong conclusions that then he extends to ridicules extremes.

Date: 2007/12/11 01:57:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Quote (Hermagoras @ Dec. 10 2007,16:54)
Curiously, the materialist scientists who thought of this tactic apparently had no need of ID theory.  Typical liberal tactic - putting curing the patient before defending the theory.

Yes, but of course GilDodgen was saying that doctors should prescribe multiple antibiotics for all [bacterial] infections.  All of them.  Every one.  I think that's pretty much a recipe for evolving superbugs.
[/quote]
In 1966 I did a summer school experiment with two cultures of bacteria.  I challenged them each with various popular medications; Lysol, Listerine (named after Joseph Lister), and plain old alcohol.  Listerine is about 21% alcohol, so you can see the contrast.  

The alcohol killed both bacteria.  The popular remedies greatly reduced the populations of bacteria, but without continued application the bacteria rebounded in even greater numbers than before they were challenged.  The popular nostrums never killed all the bacteria- there were always some to continue their existence and even to flourish.  I tried to extend the result with different bacteria, but medical conserns (using the family refrigerator and oven for pathogenic cultures) ended the experiments.  Forty years and a PhD later, I realize that I missed a clear shot at early publication.  Worse, people are still buying the crap I had exposed “way back when."

Acually, I am in retrospect amazed that my mother indulged me to the extent she did.  Bacteria in the Fridge, snakes in the bedroom, various rodents in various places, bones piled here and there...

So on and so on...  

Really remarkable.

Rather like my home today.  I am amazed my wife puts up with me as well.



Date: 2007/12/11 01:59:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (djmullen @ Dec. 10 2007,22:45)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 10 2007,22:42)
ID interest back on the rise?

http://www.google.com/trends?....&sort=0

Perhaps it's "expelled the movie"

Should we defrost Lenny Flank?

I think that early November peak was caused by PBS's Judgement Day at Dover special.  Whatever it was, it didn't last long.

Ah, good for you.  I like that much better.

I need to take an Evo/Creato vacation.  I'll go fishing!

Date: 2007/12/12 22:31:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"orange sunshine?"

Are you really that old?

Date: 2007/12/13 18:23:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"Washburn (strange birdseye maple solid top)"

I have a Washburn mandolin from 1897 from my grandfather.  It needs work on a cracked sound board, sad to say.  I briefly owned a Washburn guitar, but the rent came due one sorry month.  It was the gibson, the martin, or the old 3/4 size washburn.  

I could have got a job I suppose.

Date: 2007/12/20 17:50:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Very interesting.

Date: 2007/12/23 19:08:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 23 2007,16:00)
ERV is working up another post on Dembski and the Harvard/XVIVO video. It turns out that Dembski's "bullet-proof" text in "The Design of Life" includes a URL to the original video at Harvard, and gives a "last accessed" date that is months prior to the OU talk date.

That is too fine!

Date: 2007/12/31 00:39:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
There were several points that I didn't like in Meester's article.  There are also some minor errors in his bibliography, and elsewhere that a copy editor will pick up and repair.

The core notion, that computational evolution simulations fail to be revealing is very interesting, but impossible to evaluate from Meester's presentation.

Date: 2007/12/31 00:47:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This is all the bibliography you'll need.

http://nsmserver2.fullerton.edu/departm....web

Date: 2008/01/01 12:59:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (olegt @ Dec. 31 2007,15:51)
To give you an idea of the scientific level, I'll point out this recent gem:
 
Quote

Milk Genes

I was thinking about lactose tolerance the other day and managed to scrounge up an article that I had remembered reading.  This article relates the findings that lactose tolerance is something that evolved in humans rather recently.

The findings supports the idea that milk drinkers became widespread in Europe only after dairy farming had become established there—not the other way around.

This has been a contentious issue for some time now, about how/when lactose tolerance came about.  The new findings support that lactose tolerance came about after dairy farming was established, and this presents a tough problem for evolution.  Why would humans undertake dairy farming if they couldn’t actually eat/drink dairy products?  This question alone is enough to dispel the evolutionary hypothesis.  If, however, we were designed to drink milk, then it is only natural that we would search for other milk sources that we could utilize.

I replied:

The Late Neolithic and Early Bronze archaeology of Mesopotamia sheds an interesting light on the early status of pre-domesticated cattle.    The iconography of Sumeria used the bull’s horns as signs of divinity with as many as 14 pairs worn as a helmet by the supreme god Anu, or An.   Even after the domestication of cattle in the bronze age, wild cattle were hunted by Neo-Assyrian kings who wore two pair as symbols of their power.  The Ugaritic texts form a critical corpus to understand much of the early Bible. There, the king Nimrod is renowned for his ability to hunt cattle which he provided to feasts of the gods hosted by El, and Bal Hadad, to which selected kings were invited.  Nimrod was also attested biblically.

You can get a quick introduction to this in;

Cross, Frank Moore
1973 Canaanite Myth and Hebrew Epic: Essays in the History of the Religion of Israel.  Boston: Harvard University Press

Dalley, Stephanie
2000 Myths from Mesopotamia: Creation, The Flood, Gilgamesh, and Others. Revised Oxford: Oxford University Press

Black, Jeremy, Anthony Green, Tessa Rickards (illustrator)
2003 "Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia" Austin: University of Texas Press.

The domestication of cattle, and even dairy farming clearly preceded the bulk of the biblical texts, as we read in Exodus  3:8.  “And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.”  We can assume the reference is to cattle, or goats milk, although, human milk “on the leg” as it were, was a beverage served at feasts for gods and kings, and is obliquely referred to biblically in Psalm 89:5-6 which is derived from the incipit to an Ugaritic praise hymn. (See  Pardee, Dennis 2002 Writings from the Ancient World Vol. 10: Ritual and Cult at Ugarit Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature, and Dahood, Mitchell 1965 Psalms I, 1-50: Introduction, Translation and Notes  New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday and 1968 Psalms II, 51-100: Introduction, Translation and Notes  New York: Anchor Bible- Doubleday).

This brief note is merely to observe that the interactions between humans and cattle are ancient, and important.  And, more obviously, there is much more to cattle than raw milk.  Without doubt, the original motive for domestication of cattle was for meat, hides, and not milk to drink.  

You have made some gross errors when concluding that “The new findings support that lactose tolerance came about after dairy farming was established, and this presents a tough problem for evolution.”  And “This question alone is enough to dispel the evolutionary hypothesis.”  

First, you should already realize that drinking raw milk was rare in the ancient past, and is actually rare today except among northern and central European populations.  However, fermented milk products such as yogurt, and cheese are far more common and do not require the same lactose tolerance that drinking milk does.  So without much grasp of biology or archaeology, you should have known that the PNAS article could not represent, “… a tough problem for evolution.”  This would be true even of a good reading of the popular press blurb in National Geographic.

Second, you relied on a popularized blurb from secondary sources to rest your very sweeping conclusions.  This is always a mistake, one a professor ought to know to avoid.   You should read the original article, “Absence of the lactase-persistence-associated allele in early Neolithic Europeans” J. Burger, M. Kirchner, B. Bramanti, W. Haak, and M. G. Thomas, PNAS | March 6, 2007 | vol. 104 | no. 10 | 3736-3741 http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/104/10/3736

The article is quite interesting and I am sure you will enjoy it and learn a good deal about evolution.

Date: 2008/01/01 13:10:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (olegt @ Jan. 01 2008,10:45)
Lou, this is a guy/gal who claims to be a researcher three years from tenure.  An assistant prof is supposed to be working his/her ass off teaching, working in the lab, writing papers, getting grants and supervising grad students.  Spending a couple of hours with dogs at midday usually doesn't fit in this schedule.

After reading a few more of the "prof" Smith posts, I would guess they are a journalism major.

Date: 2008/01/02 19:02:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wrote much of my diseration in my garden.  When I taught at the Medical College of Georgia (which offered me tenure) I rarely came in before 12 noon.  (I liked to work until ~4 am).

The reason that "Prof" Smith is not a scientist is that they are pathetically ignorant of science.

They are too chicken to post my reply to their "milk gene" bull shit.



Date: 2008/01/02 21:15:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Last year I was actually thinking of doing a post doc to play out an idea I have about chriality and abiogensis.  I hung around with some bio grad students for a week or so, helping them with a project.

The scene seems to have become industrial- grind grind.  Put me off the whole idea.

Date: 2008/01/05 18:03:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (UnMark @ Jan. 05 2008,15:55)
Smith doesn't seem to have much training/education in any scientific field.  For a while my money was on engineering of some flavor, but the couple of engineering analogies used indicate otherwise.  I'd rule out most of the humanities by writing alone, and social sciences (sociology, psychology, etc) seem rather lacking, too.  What are we left with: arts/music, law, and/or general education?

I think they are merely a fraud.

Date: 2008/01/06 00:21:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
They failed to grasp the meaning of the milk gene article as well.

"Professor" Smith, is neither.

Date: 2008/01/06 17:35:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So far, "professor" Schmuck does not grasp basic chemistry, biology, cosmology, geology, and archaeology.

I might have missed a few.

They obviously lied about being a science professor.

Date: 2008/01/06 18:01:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Is this just a retake on ReMine's BS?

http://a-c-s.confex.com/crops/2007am/techprogram/P35998.HTM

Monday, November 5, 2007
57-3
Using Mendel's Accountant to Simulate Mutation Accumulation and Genetic Load in Plants.
John C. Sanford, Horticultural Sciences, Cornell University, Geneva, NY 14456, John Baumgardner, Los Alamos National Laboratory (retired), Los Alamos, NM 87545, Paul Gibson, Int'l Inst. Cooperative Studies, Cooperative Studies Inc., PO Box 12830, Overland Park, KS 66282-2830, Wes Brewer, Computer Science & Electronic Engineering, Handong Global University, Handong, South Korea, and Walter ReMine, Science & Mathematics Dept., Northwestern College, St. Paul, MN 55113.

Long-standing theoretical concerns about mutation accumulation within higher organisms can now be addressed with numerical simulation. We have developed Mendel’s Accountant, which is a biologically realistic forward-time population genetics numerical simulation program. We have used this program to study mutation accumulation under a wide-range of circumstances. Using realistic estimates for the relevant biological parameters, we have investigated the rate of mutation accumulation, the distribution of the fitness effects of the accumulating mutations, and the overall effect on mean genotypic fitness. Our numerical simulations consistently show that deleterious mutations accumulate linearly across a large portion of the relevant parameter space. This appears to be primarily due to the predominance of nearly-neutral mutations. The problem of mutation accumulation becomes severe when mutation rates are high. Numerical simulations strongly support earlier theoretical and mathematical studies indicating that “genetic load” is a serious issue. Mendel's Accountant provides the opportunity to explore the relationship of mutation accumulation within the context of genetic resource preservation. Mendel also provides a practical basis for studying the basis of such things as hybrid vigor and numerous genomic evolutionary processes. Mendel's accountant can be downloaded free of charge at http://sourceforge.net/projects/mendelsaccount.  We welcome feedback and suggestions.

Date: 2008/01/07 08:08:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ERV @ Jan. 06 2008,19:39)
You probably already know this, but just in case, Sanford is a YEC that spoke for ID at the KS kangaroo court.

Sanford, Baumgardner and ReMine are all YECs.  I don't know anything about Paul Gibson, or Wes Brewer.

Date: 2008/01/07 09:31:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (slpage @ Jan. 07 2008,06:35)
Northwestern College is a Christians College....

The only place a hack like ReMine could get a job...

Interestingly, he is not mentioned in the Science and Mathematics faculty list, evan as a part-timer.  Hmmm....

Maybe Walt can eat at their cafeteria.

Date: 2008/01/07 17:28:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 07 2008,15:18)
Quote
BarryA: Is Richard Dawkins analogous to Pope Urban VIII?

Does Richard Dawkins have an Inquisition with a dungeon replete with trained torturers to compel the recantation of his adversaries under threat of burning?

Quote
BarryA: Are Dembski and Behe the new Copernicus and Galileo?

Have Dembski and Behe established an international reputation by making important contributions to science and technology long before introducing their controversial 'theories'?

OOOHH OOOH PICK ME! PICK MEEE!!!!1111!!

NO! NO! NO!

Date: 2008/01/09 12:12:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
So the creator figures out a way to end the boredom. He crafts the universe so it eventually produces intelligent agents with free will. Determinism ends where the free will of “rational” man begins. We’re the wild card that keeps the creator of the universe from going bonkers due to knowing too much. We’re the only thing that makes the universe interesting for an otherwise omniscient entity.


I heard pretty much the same suggestion in an undergraduate philosophy course 35 years ago. Or maybe it was at a party. Sometimes it was hard to tell the difference.

Date: 2008/01/09 15:36:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Jan. 09 2008,10:18)
You know, if I were the god/lizard I would have created myself a hot babe in a tight skirt and called it a day.  to hell with humanity, dinosaurs and cells, I want to kill my boredom with a hot chick for all eternity.

Ah the naïve optimism of youth. The fresh bloom of newly found powers of erection that in a mere 6 decades with wither into memory. (I wonder why there are no viagra ads in women's magazines)?



Date: 2008/01/11 17:35:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I never got any freaking startup money- I brought it with me. My trade up was space+better physical plant, +tenure. Who gets "startup" money? Shit, I was robbed of my startup money!

Frefing bastards.   Billions of frefing startup money!!!!111!!11

Billions

;)



Date: 2008/01/14 23:14:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Jan. 14 2008,15:35)
WAD is a tease or maybe not.  Maybe he doesn't have an answer and he's hoping the tards can help him out without having to admit he's stumped.

 
Quote
"I have an answer but I want to hear YOURS first".


Clever, WAD!

This is the "Let's show the PR firm what ID predicts" thread so it should be a doozy!  Or a dozer I suppose...

I think I'll wait for Bill to shoot his wad.

Date: 2008/01/15 01:03:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Altabin @ Jan. 14 2008,21:20)
Unlettered and Ordinary, from ID predictions thread:
   
Quote
One predictions I have for ID is that nature holds the keys to advanced technology for us humans to unlock. In every living thing at lease one technological advancement waiting to be discovered. Properly understood and utilized, all the organisms that make up our eco-systems will propel human intellect to places we cannot imagine.

I nearly barfed laughing

Thank You so much for reading the crap that the IDCs spew and spreading it out like the bloody entrails of the poor rodent that took away their brains. It is more than I can take straight.



Date: 2008/01/15 01:14:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
2) History of life: Life is shown too complex to develop slowly over time. Life will appear rapidly and remain in stasis. This has been confirmed countless times, i.e. the big bangs of life.

I had a girlfriend who was 5'1'' and 280lb. That was the big bang of life, my friends.  She would mow these wimps down and not even notice the bumps.

Date: 2008/01/15 01:16:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Oh shit!  Real (unpaid) work.

Date: 2008/01/15 01:27:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Editing of the next Indiana Jones movie will probably be finished in a few weeks.

I don't have a nondisclosure anything.

Date: 2008/01/16 22:30:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Peter Henderson @ Jan. 15 2008,17:24)
Over on the BCSE forum I've posted three talks by leading UK young Earth creatonist Paul Taylor:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.....nd+2007

Roger Stanyard, a leading UK activist against YECism, stated (to my surprise) that he would feel uneasy debating him (Taylor):

http://community.bcseweb.org.uk/viewtopic.php?t=1491

 
Quote
I must admit I would feel uneasy debating with Taylor. He knows the fundamentalist arguments inside out. AiG has clearly given him a lot of training.


I'm sure those in the US will find the above church sermons very familiar (that is how things are in NI churches, not unlike those in the bible belt of the US) but how do the folks on the Panda's thumb reckon they would fare against Taylor ? After watching the videos what are the weaknesses in Taylor's claims (and by the way, I do know of Mark Isaac's excellent index to creationist claims although, I probably should buy the pocket version) ? If nothing else it really shows what science is up against. As I often say, forget ID. ID is not the real enemy (although YEC's are using it to attack science when it suits them). It's YECism that has taken centre stage.

AiG presentations are very, very, slick and appear to have fooled many Christians, not only in the US but around the world.

Debates with creationists are a waste of time at best.  Too few scientists have bothered to learn about creationists and so they are totally unable to even comprehend what the creationists are saying.

Off the top of my head, I can think of only twenty or thirty people with science, philosphy or history doctorates who have made a serious effort to understand creationism and are able to present reasoned scientific or theological arguements against it.

A fair number of them were raised as children in fundamentalist homes.

Date: 2008/01/17 11:37:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (olegt @ Jan. 16 2008,17:40)
With all the commenters banned, professorsmith is feeling so ronery.

This is further evidence that "smith" in neither biologist nor an IC prof.

Date: 2008/01/20 11:51:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, I changed my photo to one from last October, but I don't see it.

here is another





Date: 2008/01/20 12:26:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
That is a Ling Cod. I was helping some graduate students from Cal State Uni Long Beach.  The fishes got ultrasonic transmitters and a shoulder tag, plus a boat ride to an off-shore island.  We had to try not to hurt the little darlings and all the blood on my pants is my own.  In three days, I caught 5 and lost 3.

This one was actually shorter, but heavier.





Date: 2008/01/23 11:40:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Happy B-day

Date: 2008/01/24 15:21:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have a very small yard in an urban, high density neighborhood.  We have been here 14 years, and I have been planting  regionally local native plants since we moved bought the house.  We have about 30 species of plants in the 30X20 ft yard, and 8 in a 30X5 ft front strip.  The trees are 2 species of willow for upper story and insect fodder.  Alan’s humming birds have nested (successful), as have crows (failed).  The hummers like two species, gooseberry, and California Fuchsia, both with red hanging flowers The Gooseberry blooms from about now until June, and the fuchsia in late summer to winter.  They also like the non-native bottle brush and rosemary next door.   The willows also support a wood-boring beetle, many lepidoptera most obvious being the Morning cloak, but also a lot of cool moths.  I have 2 species of buckwheat, and 2 evening primroses that also support a number of leps, the largest being a white lined sphinx moth.  The buckwheat and a few of the various asterace feed metal marks, and marine blues.  There are at least a dozen species of “lady beetles” that reproduce, and loads of other beetles (God loves beetles).  And I can’t ID the spiders much, but there are about 5 orb-weaver speceis, and an assortment of others.  I watched a wasp the other day provisioning her burrow with a violin spider.  The wasps are another interesting population- I have watched the little killers drag around caterpillars, spiders, and whatnot.  

The migrant English Sparrows devastate the Morning Cloak caterpillars, and when the survivors hit the ground to disperse, the wasps and spiders take over.  From about 50 chrysalii I kept an eye on, only 2 emerged.  The rest were all parasitized by wasps.  (I did get to watch some of the little wasps emerge, 50-60 per chrysalis).

All these critters attract vertebrates.  The bush tits, assorted warblers join the sparrows (including a few native species) eating insects off the trees, etc.  We also are visited by downy woodpeckers occasionally.  We also see orioles, tanagers, sparrow hawks, sharp shinned hawks, doves (eaten by the sharp shinned hawks).  We get raccoon, skunk and opossum that wander through.

Resident breeders include golden salamanders, western fence lizards and southern alligator lizards.  The alligator lizards eat the salamanders as well as crickets and so on. Two years ago the lizard numbers took a bump.  It turned out that the they had been found by a young king snake.  I have no idea where he came from, he was quite small unlikely to have been an escaped pet.  I noticed him one morning when he was trying to swallow an alligator lizard almost as large as he was.  I decided I preferred lizards, and so “Elvis the King” moved to a terrarium.  He is about 3 ft now, and lives up to his name (at least re: eating).

I have not watered, fertilized, or used any other crap for 10 years.  If everyone used native plants, we would not have nearly the environmental problems.  In spite of this, the City Lawn Nazis aka “code enforcement officers” were on my ass for years for growing “weeds.”  I shook them off when I received a “Registered Wildlife Habitat” sign from the National Wildlife Federation and posted it in the yard.

Date: 2008/01/26 21:57:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Abbie has employed Luskin's photograph as well as can be expected without farty noises.

Date: 2008/01/28 12:19:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Maya @ Jan. 28 2008,09:26)
Quote (PTET @ Jan. 28 2008,10:43)
 Deleted out of pity!

Ahem.

Don't you hate that feeling of vomit rising just to the top of your throat and having to swallow it back down?

Or when it comes out your nose.

Date: 2008/01/31 16:03:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have read both of the crap on paper, or "books," by Simmons.  His latest, "Billions of Missing Links" averaged well over two errors per page, begining on page one.

I missed most of the radio show, but they mentioned that it will be posted as an audio file.

Date: 2008/01/31 17:15:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Spring training has begun at last!  That always makes me hope that a future will exist that was better than last year.  My nephew reports next week.  If he can only hit the damn ball this year he'll get to play next year!



Date: 2008/01/31 18:13:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Nate Anderson.  He is hanging in the Rocky's minor leagues.  Very good defense player- a catcher.  Needs to find a bat.

Date: 2008/02/01 11:24:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have had to stop the audio several times so that I could hear over my laughter.  Simmons is a wonderful example of an educated nitwit.

His interest in a new career as a creationist flack could be motivated by his utter inability to think clearly.

Date: 2008/02/01 12:24:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 01 2008,10:13)
Simmons is an NCSE sock-puppet, isn't he?

I just had the notion that Simmons is a luskin clone with a md instead of a jd. They have the same whinny reaction when they are caught lying, "He is being mean to me to call me names, wha wha whaaa."  Maybe this is part of the dicko institute seceret training program for senior fellows.

Date: 2008/02/01 13:10:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J. O'Donnell @ Feb. 01 2008,09:50)
Surprise surprise, I cannot seem to find any evidence from Scientific American they published anything on Whale Evolution in 2007.

Edit: Do creationists even bother maintaining a current knowledge of anything anyway? For example, Behe doesn't seem to regard knowing anything about current immunology research before making blanket statements about it.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=closest-whale-cousin

Date: 2008/02/01 21:09:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J. O'Donnell @ Feb. 01 2008,15:35)
Thanks for the link Gary. My searches on Pubmed and on their site didn't uncover that link at all for some reason.

It's still funny how he doesn't bother even reading the article carefully that he cites as support however. It's hardly a detailed article on whale evolution, it's just a news story and he seemingly ignored the part where it talks about transitionals.

I am far from certain that Simmons ever read the item.  I think that if he looked at it he could not understand what he read.  I think that it is more likely that he was lying.

Date: 2008/02/08 23:21:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 08 2008,13:14)
Davetard on politics:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....omments


Whole thread is a tard laden train-wreck.

DaveScot is a disgusting excuse for a human.  I sometimes regret my commitment to pacifism.  Christian up-bring, and all that.

Date: 2008/02/08 23:42:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
The woman replies, "No. I think I'll just wait for the police...."


Dang, that was good wine I wasted on cleaning my CRT screen.

Date: 2008/02/13 10:46:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Photos from Photobucket?   ???

They don't seem to link.

Size a problem?





Ah, that seems to do the trick.

That is the yard (plus dog).  The growing area is about 5X5 meters, and we have about 35 plant species.  You can see we are in an urban area.  (The occasional shootings are an urban bonus).

Here are some gooseberry that I trained up w/ flowers popular with humming birds.  I also vined some goosberry into the willows which discourages cats and other critters from raiding nests.





Date: 2008/02/13 13:58:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 13 2008,10:36)
Dr. GH:

Your gooseberries don't look like what I know as gooseberry (Ribes spp. - currant). Do you know their scientific name?

According to the Jepson Manual, and Munz (they don't always agree- understatement!), Ribes speciosum, Fuchsia-flowered Gooseberry.  Recall I have woven them together.  In the wild they are climbers, or small shubs if browsed.

Date: 2008/02/13 15:21:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
A treemendacious contribution to ID research.

Date: 2008/02/13 21:23:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
When DaveTard was getting the boot from PT, he dashed around the intertubes claiming that I was an Al Qaeda shill and that PT and Darwinists were a horrible threat to humanity.  

DT goes even more insane than Ed Brayton, or Jon Sarfati when my name is mentioned.

Date: 2008/02/13 21:36:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The images from Aliens are basic wasp or beetle larva.

For example, these from my front yard;

Date: 2008/02/14 10:41:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I only called DoL (AKA Emma La Douche) a creationist pustule, and she bitched and bitched ...

Date: 2008/02/14 22:27:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ck1 @ Feb. 13 2008,22:59)
But mainly deer.  Lots and lots.  They eat everything.    Except daffodils.  And create problems for drivers - we have hit two of them on the road.


road kill deer would be perfectly OK if you avoided the meat with massive bleeding.  (Oh, and if you like deer meat).  I'd rather bleed it out myself.

I had road kill mountain lion once- a bit like pork, but very dry.



Date: 2008/02/15 20:41:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mister DNA @ Feb. 14 2008,11:37)
Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 14 2008,13:32)
 
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 14 2008,13:27)
Any chance one of you can post this at UD?  Rich will your buddy davetard post it for you?  Even he has to see the humor.

rich - maybe send to PZ?  It is definitely worthy of wider dissemination.

ps:  I don't think DaveTard's gonna do it.

I'd gladly host it, but only about 20 people read my blog.

You have TWENTY people that read YOUR bolg?  


I doubt that there are even 3 people that read MY blog.  I doubt that there are THREE people that even know the NAME of MY BLOG.

Scheech.

Date: 2008/02/15 23:29:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wish that there was material whatsername on MY BLOG which isn't here, but is there.  But I don't pimp like SOME PEOPLE at Panda's Thumb.

Actually, I am glad you guys like it.  I use the "Stones and Bones" as a drop-off file space for material I use on creationist websites.  I have been posting to a number of Christian and creationist sites, as well as RnR and here and there.  I haven't added the recent stuff to Stones and Bones.  

About the time I left PT, I had been building a case for selling ad space.  I have a neighbor in the biz end of the intertubes, and I had him looking at PT as a client.  Seed magazine swept through, and I blew out.  Blew up, blew out- samosamo.

Date: 2008/02/16 21:02:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 16 2008,04:44)
Well, I'll be adding Stones and Bones to my blogrolls and regular reading list.

Very good stuff, keep it coming.

Thanks for your kind words.

Now I will try to come up with something worth reading.

Gary

Date: 2008/02/22 12:33:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (EoRaptor013 @ Feb. 21 2008,14:20)
Gotta tell you a story. I swear on a stack of Origin of Species that this is true.

Sr in college -- '73 I guess it was -- my girlfriend in those days and I drove down to San Diego to a relatively new Lion Country sort of thingy (can't remember if it was an actual Lion Country or a clone). Back in them days, you drove through the park and there were plenty of warning signs about keeping windows closed, don't harass the citizens, etc. So, we drive along the road and come around the bend just in time for an indian elephant to step onto the road, then just stand there sweeping up bunches of grass from the road's shoulder. My girlfriend, never the patient type (think that's why she dumped me), sat for a couple of minutes drumming her fingers on the steering wheel. Finally, she can't stand it any more, rolls forward a foot or two, and honks the horn! While I'm going "GAAAK!", packy looks over, hrm.. her(?) shoulder, twitches her ears a bit and then... I SWEAR... sat on the hood of the car!!! (would that have been the bonnet even though the boot was in front?) Well, maybe it was more like leaned one haunch on it for a second; doesn't matter, put a goodly sized crunch on the hood of her car.

The rest of the story has to do with a chain-reaction accident we just barely avoided on the freeway and a CHP officer who didn't believe the story, either.

I recall reading this many years ago.  In 1973, I was a student at UC Irvine just a few miles from Lion Country Safari- Orange County not San Diego.  As I recall the story, it was a volkswagon that was sat on.

Date: 2008/02/25 12:40:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
that is why there is no science anymore, not since the end of Leave It To Beaver.


Has anyone else wondered at the name "Beaver Cleaver" and what the immortal phrase "Leave it to Beaver" must have contributed to the women's liberation movement?

The EAC is everywhere- everywhere.  Everywhere, I say.

Date: 2008/02/25 21:26:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ERV @ Feb. 25 2008,19:07)
WHY DID I HAVE TO HEAR ABOUT THIS FROM JONATHAN SARFATI??

WHY DID NONE OF YOU WARN ME OF THE GENIUS OF LYCHEE RESEARCHERS???

**runs away to her Ivory Tower, sobbing**

Sorry. I didn't know.

It will be alright when you have ripped them into little pieces. You'll feel much better.

Date: 2008/02/26 17:20:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Feb. 26 2008,13:08)
I forgot to address the Holocaust. No, I won't teach my kids that Darwin initiated the Holocaust, because that is patently untrue. However, I won't shy away from explaining how social Darwinism and the science of eugenics--which was founded by Darwin's cousin Francis Galton as an attempt to apply Darwin's theory on a social level--were contributing factors to Hitler's views on race.

In that case you will be a (personal expletive deleted) liar.  Racism and bigotry are far older than Darwin, and older than the sciences. They have been justified by every sort of argument, mostly religious and nationalistic. The genocides in the Bible were used as Nazi justifications more than any nonexistant mention of Darwin.  

Rev. Donal Kerr, Emeritus Professor of Ecclesiastical History,
St. Patrick's University, Maynooth, Ireland has written on the massive ideological support the "new science" of economics privided to justify the deaths of thousands during the Irish Potato Famine.  
Quote
"
Trevelyan, whose influence was paramount, summed up this attitude when he said that the Famine was "the judgment of God on an indolent and unself-reliant people." It was "the cure...applied by the direct stroke of an all wise Providence in a manner as unexpected...as it is likely to be effectual!" As God had "sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson, that calamity must not be too much mitigated." In other words, the Famine was God's will and we should not alleviate it too much."


However, following the publication of "Origin of Species" there was a great interest in the potential for human improvement by the application of biology. The most active centers for this thinking, called Social Darwinism, were in the United States, and secondly in Germany.  The origin of Social Darwinism was of course British; particularly from the writing of Francis Galton, and Herbert Spencer.  The notion of evolution was used in these nations primarily as justification of the political status quo- basically the poor underclass were inately "inferior" and there was no moral onus to care for them.

The political and economic situation in late 19th century Germany led to a huge polarization between Left and Right, and this is how the notions associated with Social Darwinism in England and the United States came to such different and disastrous results in Germany.

The man most responsible for Germany's "racial hygiene" Rassenhygiene and author of its founding articles and books was Alfred Ploetz.  His 1895 work particularly argued aginst medical care for the "weak" as this would alow them to reproduce more than the "fit."  His ideal of "fitness" was the wealthy.  Ploetz established the Society for Racial Hygiene, Gesellshaft für Rassenhygiene, in 1905 which grew to 1,300 members by 1930.  Curiously, the Racial Hygiene movement opposed birth control,  and in the words of Max von Gruber (1914) "the so-called women's liberation movement."  This latter point was echoed by American eugenicists who objected to birth control as part of an "antibaby strike" by emancipated women.  Today's US religious right-wing fits hand and glove.

The German racial hygienists prior to the 1920s were not particularly concerned with "race" in the sense we use it today, but were concerned with their notion of race=national identity, and race=the totality of humankind.  Ploetz (1895), for example, felt it necessary to explicitly state that his was not an anti-Semitic program, citing the achievements of Jesus, Spinoza and Marx in particular and rejected that there was any such thing as a "pure race" anywhere in the world.  Similarly, he denied that interracial breeding was at all harmful, and referred to the notion of hybrid vigor; interbreeding of races was "a means of increasing fitness and as a source of good variations."  Notably, Willhelm Schallmayer, winner of the 1900 Krupp Prize for his essay on evolution and political development of the state, urged that the singular Rassehygiene be used (rather then the plural Rassen-) to emphasize the focal unity of the human species.  

None-the-less, Ploetz did maintain in 1895 that there were intellectual differences between the Caucasians and Negroes citing 1890 American studies of literacy rates!  (The absurdity of this is patent, but even today there are similar arguments presented by radical conservatives).  More sinisterly, Ploetz together with F. Wollny and Fritz Lenz, organized a secret Nordic division (Ring der Norda) within the Society for Race Hygiene from the very beginning.  Fritz Lenz would become the leading Nazi racial theorist.  His 1917 article "The Rebirth of Ethics" directly brought the thinking of Arthur Comte de Gobineau into German racial theories.  Well before Darwin's Origin, Gobineau published his Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races in 1853-1855 which proposed that "racial vitality" was the driving force of history, and that the "white" races were superior to the "colored" races.  Initially this work was only popular in the American slave states, following the biblical arguments of the Negro's bearing the "curse of Ham."  American and European creationist theories of the "pre-Adamites" went so far as to claim that Negroes had been created on the Genesis fifth day with "other beasts of the field."  Gobineau's claim that the German Volk represented the last pure Nordic population attracted Lenz who reintroduced Gobineau into German racist theories.  

What was outstanding and uniquely German was the domination of the racist Nordic movement by medical doctors.  This had several important consequences, one being the prominance given to inherited disease and secondly the willingness to take direct "curative action" as a public health program.  

Leading figures of the Nordic movement wrote for the Politisch-anthropologish Revue edited by Ludwig Wolttmaann, M.D. ( e.g. Rüdin, Lentz, Fisher and Schallmayer).   The right wing of the racial hygiene movement, the Nordic supremacists, that ultimately became the Nazi medical establishment was virtually the creation of medical publisher Julius Friedrich Lehmann.  Lehmann joint the Nazi party in 1920, and was the first Nazi to recieve the party's "Golden Medal of Honor" in 1934.  Actually, by 1930 it was nearly impossible to distinguish between the Nordic/Nazi and the transformed Rassenhygiene movements.  At that time, some people still attempted to separate what they viewed as the medical and scientific study of human genetics from the Nazi dominated Rassenhygiene, but within Germany they were suppressed.  

There is a hightly significant passage in Evans pg. 92-93:
Quote
"The minutes [taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt] for the second day's meeting, on 17 April 1943, recorded a statement by Reich Foreign Minister Ribbentrop, in Hitler's presence, to a point made by Hungarian Admiral Horthy: "On Horthy's retort, what should he do with the Jews then, after he had pretty well taken all means of living from them-- he surely couldn't beat them to death-- the Reich Foreign Minister [Ribbentrop] replied that the Jews must either be annihilated or taken to concentration camps. There is no other way."

Hitler almost immediately confirmed Ribbentrop's explicitly murderous statement at some length: Hitler: "Where the Jews were left to themselves, as for example in Poland, gruesome poverty and degeneracy had ruled. They were just pure parasites. One had fundamentally cleared up this state of affairs in Poland. If the Jews there didn't want to work [in Third Reich concentration camps], they were shot. If they couldn't work they had to perish. They had to be treated like tuberculosis bacilli, from which a healthy body could be infected. That was not cruel, if one remembered that even innocent natural creatures like hares and deer had to be killed so that no harm was caused. Why should one spare the beasts who wanted to bring us Bolshevism more? Nations who did not rid themselves of Jews perished." (references and footnotes are found in Evans, 2001:92-93)


Here we have Hitler, in his argument to Hungary's Admiral Horthy, invoking not an übermench racist position, but an anti-Bolshevik, and nationalist one.  His analogy is to disease and there is no argument based on the notion of evolution.  Hitler never tried to draw rhetorical support from Social Darwinism arguing in Mein Kampf, it is not present in the text.  Science in any event was at most merely a twig on the trunk of his anti-Semitism. His opposition is to what he considered a Marxist threat, not drawn from Darwin, which was more a rationalization of his hatred than its origin.  

The Nazi Office of Racial Policy held thousands of public meetings a month promoting anti-semitism and attacking “muddle-headed humanitarianism” (Humanitätsduselei)  or, what we call “liberalism” today.  The theoretical models and dominant metaphors Hitler drew from did not include evolution at any event, but the Germ Theory of Disease, and Christianity.  In 1938 the Nazi "Office of Racial Policy" publication Inromationsdienst Martin Luther’s advice on the “proper” treatment of Jews was given prominent display:

Quote
... to put their synagogues and schools to fire, and what will not burn, to cover with earth and rubble so that no-one will ever again see anything there but cinders ... Second, one should tear down and destroy their houses, for they do also in there what they do in their schools and synagogues ... And third, one should confiscate their prayer books and Talmud, in which idolatry and lies, slander and blasphemy is taught” From Proctor 1988: 88.


The founder of Protestant Christianity was a greater inspiration to the Nazis than any scientist.  Science, politicized by the same conditions that radicalized both Left, and Right in Germany, was used as justification for actions long advocated as “Christian.”  

In fact, the Nazis has the works of Darwin publically burned along with the books of Ernst Haeckel (Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279). Die Bücherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published these collection evaluation "guidelines" during the second round of "purifications" (saüberung).

6. Schriften weltanschaulichen und lebenskundlichen Charakters, deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufklärung eines primitiven Darwinismus und Monismus ist (Häckel).    

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel)

Readers interestd in an honest assesment of the history of the Nazis and their "science" of Racial Hygiene should read the following works;

Evans, Richard J.
2001 Lying about Hitler New York:Basic Books.

Hitler, Adolf
1999 (orig. 1925) Mien Kampf  Ralph Manheim, translator.  New York: Houghton Mifflin Co.

Proctor, Robert N.
1988 Racial Hygiene: Medicine Under the Nazis Boston:Harvard University Press.



Date: 2008/02/27 21:26:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This Disko Whore seems to think that they know something about origin of life research.

In a very short form;

Short amino acid chains (10> X < 20) have been shown to easily form abiotically.

Even better, alternating D- and L- amino acids in short peptides forms a helical molecule.

Better yet, such molecules are easily found as membrane pores in archaea, and marine bacteria.

Membranes readily form from abiotic lipids.

Still more better, these pores can establish charge gradients. These are metabolisms.

Mapping these peptides into a PNA, or RNA establishes a genome.

Holding a genome within the membrane establishes a cell.

There is no particular problem with terrestrial abiogenesis, even with the far more demanding criteria used in the sciences as opposed to creationism.

However, there is nothing in evolutionary biology that depends on knowing the origin of life.

Here is all that Darwin had to say about the origin of life in his Origin of Species.  

Quote
“ I believe that animals are descended from at most only four or five progenitors, and plants from an equal or lessor number.

Analogy would lead me one step farther, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants are descended from some one prototype.  But analogy may be a deceitful guide.  Nevertheless all living things have much in common, in their chemical composition, their cellular structure, their laws of growth, and their liability to injurious influences.  ...  Therefore, on the principle of natural selection with the divergence of character, it does not seem incredible that, from some such low and intermediate form, both animals and plants may have been developed; and, if we admit this, we must likewise admit that all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth may be descended from some one primordial form.  But this inference is chiefly grounded on analogy, and it is immaterial whether or not it be accepted.  No doubt it is possible, as Mr. G. H. Lewes has urged, that at the first commencement of life many different forms were evolved; but if so, we may conclude that only a very few have left modified descendants.”

And, from the book’s last sentence;

“There is grander in this point of view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one ; ....”


So I note that Darwin was consistent in his opinion that there were few first life forms, and merely a possibly that  there could have been only one.  Also note that Darwin is little interested in the issue using well under one page of text from a 450 page book.

From the 6th edition,
http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/

“Thus, from the war of nature, from famine and death, the most exalted object which we are capable of conceiving, namely, the production of the higher animals, directly follows. There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved. “

Charles R. Darwin, in a letter to the botanist Joseph Hooker (1871) wrote, "It is often said that all the conditions for the first production of a living organism are present, which could ever have been present. But if (and Oh! what a big if!) we could conceive in some warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, light, heat, electricity, etc., present, that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes, at the present day such matter would be instantly devoured or absorbed, which would not have been the case before living creatures were formed. "

Later in the same letter, he observed,

"It is mere rubbish thinking at present of the origin of life; one might as well think of the origin of matter."



Date: 2008/02/28 02:30:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Quack @ Feb. 26 2008,03:18)
A creationist claims:

"Dr. John Baumgardner is the worlds number 1 expert on plate tectonics."

I don't know, he seems to be a bright scientist, creationist, but #1 on that subject, I would like to know?

Baumgardner was mainly a code monkey.  His work was not on plate tectonics.  As I recall, he worked on seismic data related to nuclear tests.

Date: 2008/02/29 12:09:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Daniel Smith @ Feb. 28 2008,09:10)
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Feb. 27 2008,19:20)
 
Quote (Daniel Smith @ Feb. 28 2008,00:05)
   
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 26 2008,01:13)
Sure, your saltational theory does not require a millions of years old earth but the fossils we're talking about do!

How do you know that oldman?  How long does fossilization take?  What's the timespan needed to produce "the fossils we're talking about"?  How did you arrive at that figure?  Have you even thought about it?  Or are you just parotting what you've heard someone else say?

Hi Mr Smith, come in, I'd like to introduce you to Mr Radiometric Dating.

How much do you actually know about radiometric dating?

I am an expert.  What do you know about radiometric, or anyother dating mrthod?

Date: 2008/02/29 19:13:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 29 2008,07:36)
The film industry has really run out of ideas.

My next door neighbor is a film editor.  They wrapped the next Indiana Jones movie today, and he starts working next week on a horror flick.  Maybe the idea is “Do What Works.”

Reading the Epic of Gilgamesh and Chaucer has convinced me that there really are no new plots.  (Well, the murder mystery was new when Edger Allen Poe wrote one).

Date: 2008/03/02 17:55:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It is egg layers in the open air;



Here is a battered Mourning Cloak female;

Date: 2008/03/04 18:32:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
PHILO 7544 The Coherence of Intelligent Design, William A. Dembski
[doctoral seminar; spring 2008]


Quote
[WmAD1] William A. Dembski, No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence (Lanham, Md.: Rowman and Littlefield,
2002).

[WmAD2] William A. Dembski, ed., Uncommon Dissent: Intellectuals Who Find Darwinism Unconvincing (Wilmington, Delaware: ISI Books, 2004).

[NAM] Neil A. Manson, ed., God and Design: The Teleological Argument and Modern Science (London: Routledge, 2003).

[AM] Angus Menuge, Agents Under Fire: Materialism and the Rationality of Science (Lanham, Md.: Rowman and Littlefield, 2004).

[DR] Del Ratzsch, Nature, Design, and Science: The Status of Design in Natural  Science (Albany, N.Y.: SUNY Press, 2001).

[Y&E] Matt Young and Taner Edis, eds., Why Intelligent Design Fails: A Scientific Critique of the New Creationism (New Brunswick, N.J..: Rutgers University
Press, 2004)


I never read Del Ratzsch, nor Menuge.   I thought I had read "God and Design" but is is not in my bibliography.

Date: 2008/03/04 20:40:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was surprised (again) at the egotism of Dembski.  Two of his books, which are not all that different, but no Behe, Wells or Johnson.  I wouldn't teach a course on IDC without all of them.

On the pro-science I would use WIDF, Forrest and Gross, and the Dover Decision by Jones.  Lighter reading would be "40 days and 40 nights"

Date: 2008/03/05 09:37:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Dallas News,  AUSTIN – Veteran State Board of Education member Pat Hardy of Fort Worth was defeating a challenger in the GOP primary Tuesday night, holding off an effort by social conservatives to gain a working majority on the politically divided board.  



The board currently has 10 Republicans – including seven social conservatives who frequently vote together – and five Democrats. Seven members are up for election this year, but the only primary races are in District 11 (Ms. Hardy's seat) and District 2 in South Texas. In the latter contest, incumbent Mary Helen Berlanga, D-Corpus Christi, easily defeated a challenger in the Democratic primary who also supported creation science as a better explanation of the origin of man than Charles Darwin's theory of evolution.



Date: 2008/03/05 19:12:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My new copy of Davis A. Young's book, "The Biblical Flood" came today.  So did John Allen Paulos's "Irreligion," and Neil Shubin's, "Your Inner Fish."  I needed a chaser for all the biblical literature and creationst tomes I have been reading.

Even creationsits can lead to some good reading.

Date: 2008/03/06 21:53:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Home schooling is a major effort by the far-right to isolate childern from science education. Today in California, a State Appellate court ruled that home schooling parents in California must have valid teaching credentials.

From the LA Times,
Quote

Parents who lack teaching credentials cannot educate their children at home, according to a state appellate court ruling that is sending waves of fear through California's home schooling families.

Advocates for the families vowed to appeal the decision to the state Supreme Court. Enforcement until then appears unlikely, but if the ruling stands, home-schooling supporters say California will have the most regressive law in the nation.


The first burst of "Christian Academies" was in the early 1970s when  
desegregation laws had resulted in court cases forcing school race integration.  The "Christian" "Conservatives" quickly established seperate, segregated schools based on their "Christian" "Conservative" values.  They also began a campaign for "vouchers" to remove funding for public schools.  If the public schools would dare teach those "mudbloods" then Christian Conservatives should not pay for them.

It is not an accident that these "Christian Conservatives" are the core of the creationist movement.

The Libertarian wing of the far-right are also enemies of public education, but only for the purest of motives.  The same motives that promote clear cutting forests.  The same motives that oppose anti-racist labor laws.

Date: 2008/03/06 22:05:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Paul Nelson @ Mar. 06 2008,19:13)
Steve,

Have you personally read the book?

As an educator with over 37 years experience (second grade through post doctoral students) I would love to review EE.

I'll pay shipping.

Gary Hurd
33902 Silver Lantern
Dana Point, Ca 92629

Date: 2008/03/06 22:20:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 06 2008,20:09)
I actually thought I sent my copy to you Gary. I'll get you a copy in 2-3 days.

That would be very nice of you, and I will take it as a responsibility to respond.  But Paul has claimed here that, "I've stated my interest (above): I'm looking for evidence of specific errors in Explore Evolution."

I think he should provide me a review copy as 1) I am clearly qualified both as a scientist, and educator, and 2) I have read nearly as much creationist literature as he has.  So, I propose that I will consider "Exploring Evolution" scientifically, pedagogically and even in accordance with creationist dogma.  After all, the DI should be pleased if their intelligent design theory might be shown as independent of the garden varity creationism (Garden of Eden, that is).



Date: 2008/03/06 22:27:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I'll tell you what, Paul.  I am about 2/3 through a manuscript on science and creation. The working title is "Science and Creation."

In it I show that 19th and 20th century creationism is a violation of science and scripture, and I outline a biblically coherent alternative.

You show me yours, I'll show you mine?



Date: 2008/03/07 08:57:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Hehheh.  Good.

Date: 2008/03/07 12:44:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My glee is that some standards are going to be enforced.  

You must be able to have a historical and social perspective.  Historically, public education, and the labor union movement have been the strongest forces for social equality in the USA.  Social inequality is rampant in societies that disallow poor people education along with lack of basic nutrition and health care.  

Wealthy families certainly can provide better health care, and better educational opportunities for their children.  They also buy them out of trouble- "rehab" instead of felony convictions for drug use.  However, public schools can provide a solid basic education along with some nutritional and medical support.  I don't even care if the poor childern are religious right, in fact many will be.  The ruling yesterday in California was the result of a physical abuse case in which the family court judge discovered that the other childern were not being educated.  The wealthy sponsors of the anti-school movement are the same southern racists that control the Republican party today, a result of school desegregation, and Nixon's "southern strategy" in the 1970s.

So one source of glee is that anything that attacks public education attacks social justice.

The larger social picture is that a well educated public is the most critical factor in preservering what is left of the Constitution, and is essential for making more rational choices about scientific research goals and responding to such things as global warming, HIV-AIDS, etc.  I would other wise not care if the religious extremists on the creationist fringe isolated themselves, and doomed their childern to sweeping and shoveling.  (Or journalism).

There is no question that well educated, well motivated and economically well off parents will be excellent home schoolers.  I would rather see them involved with their community.  I would rather see their knowledge and enthusiasm helping more than just their childern.  (More of that social justice thing).

Edited to add: Several people have observed that they are now for vouchers.   Of course- why pay for the education of other peoples childern.  We have no childern and I demand all my taxes back that paid for your brats.  You breeders have used the roads and parks more than I do, I want that money back too.  Fair play?



Date: 2008/03/07 22:01:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Doc GH - Yeah.  I hear you - we do like the parks - thanks for chipping in - I can send you pictures of us smiling in parks all across the country - where's your closest park?
 Hey, the pics would be great!

We have a single lot (40x100 feet) city park two blocks away.  Slides and swings for the little ones.  We have lots of apartment houses in the neighborhood, and the kids have very few places to play.  There are two quite large parks on the bluffs overlooking the harbor, and down by the river channel there is a large city park (land owned actually by the water district) where the little league baseball, and youth socker league play.

Date: 2008/03/08 11:34:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Robert Crowther, DI Director of Communications, on Evolution News & Views

Quote
You can imagine what Eugenie Scott, Richard Dawkins, PZ Myers and the rest of the Darwinian politburo thought about that. Mazur reports: ..."

Date: 2008/03/08 18:30:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 08 2008,12:46)
Quote
OT sorta...I have never really understood what appears to the the left's (color me a lefty, fyi) opposition to vouchers.


Well, part of it is that in many places, e.g., California, schools have been chronically starved for money for decades and in fact routinely get money taken away from them during budget crises so that the governor doesn't have to raise taxes. So when the idea is broached of California's already starved schools being given even LESS money so as to shift the funds to vouchers, I think we can be forgiven for looking at this as basically an indication that the Grover Norquist types are advocating just letting schools sink into oblivion.

It doesn't help that much of this government money will be tranferred straight to Christian private schools who then turn around and sue the University of California for not accepting creationist textbooks for students applying for admission to college.

I knew somebody would get it.  Thanks.

Date: 2008/03/09 15:49:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Here is an article from a pro-science homeschooler.

Date: 2008/03/12 22:30:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Good start.  Warm regards.  Bye Bye

Date: 2008/03/12 22:36:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
OK, Paul is apparently NOT going to provide me a review copy of EE.  EEEEEEhhEEEEhEeee

So, I won't buy a new copy, that would give the SOBs royalties.

You all have my email, home address, and I am in the phone book.



Date: 2008/03/12 22:43:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Leftfield @ Mar. 12 2008,19:10)
Another ID discovery: the world's oldest infant?

StephenB, from the Thomas Jefferson thread:

 
Quote
To me, it is unreasonable to de-intensify our rhetorical defense of ID until it produces some scientific miracle. Once that happens, it will not NEED defending and will no longer be vulnerable to assassins who would kill it in its infancy.

To me, it is unreasonable to rule out Jefferson’s clear words in support of ID simply because he is not one of our contemporaries. In fact, ID is over two thousand years old, and everything that was said about it in antiquity still applies.


http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-184747

Yes indeed.  A brave plunge into the depth of the IDioTard to retrieve this trophy IDIOTARDTURD.  

Huraah !!!!!!111!!!11oneoneeleven

:D

Date: 2008/03/12 23:42:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
It is really too bad that the HIV denialists won't die first.  I wish that the global warming denialists would drown first, and that the ozone loss denialists would all die tonight of skin cancer.  "Libertarian" opponents of species protection should starve first.  "Libertarian" and "religious conservative" opponents of public education should have their cars and toilets repaired by homeschoolers.  They should remove their own appendix and invent their home remedy chemotherapy.  They would die and the rest of us would benefit.

But they won't.

These are further evidences to me that there is no just god.

Date: 2008/03/13 00:10:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yeah, well, I want my free stinking copy of the stinking book!

"Why Intelligent Design Fails" had sold well more than Rugters University Press had expected.  They had around 900 paperback copies in stock.  They had made their "projected" income, and stupidly ruled by a spread sheet program, the dicks had dumpt the notion of selling any more.

I had scheduled on my own time and initiative to make a set of lecture/book signings for WIDF, and I expected to move almost all they had left.  I requested 10 freebies for personal friends, and the local activists that were promoting the book signings.

The Rutgers prick editor refused, claiming they were "a non-profit publisher" that had to be careful about expenditures.  I did one Boarders Store and sold 20 copies.  I canceled the remaning 12 on the list.  RutPress ate at least the 240 other books I could have sold.

Lesson: Never publish with Rotgers University Smash, they are creeps.  Never expect journalism/communications/english majors working for a media company to actually care about science.  Never accept the minimal profit projected by spreadsheet using morons.

Date: 2008/03/14 11:46:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Had you all seen this?



There are more.



Date: 2008/03/15 18:45:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 15 2008,12:04)
I don't feel like providing a compendium of fact-checking with respect to making EE less objectionable when it gets to court. (We know that's where it will up, eventually.)

But we can have a bit of fun with it. If someone will pick a number between 1 and 144 (144 being the beginning of the glossary), those of us with the book in hand can compete to find the error closest to the top of the given page. So the winner will be the person who can document an error that is the minimum number of pages, paragraphs, or sentences away from a given starting position. Errors can include mischaracterizations of authorities, misstatements of facts, omission of relevant information, misquotations (as described in the t.o. Jargon file), terminological inexactitude, or other deviation from telling the truth.

We need someone to give an initial seed page for the first round. Please, try to randomize this and don't just look back earlier in the thread for the location of juicy errors already identified.

Wait, Wait...

I love the idea, but I havent' got the copy that Paul sent.

Date: 2008/03/17 23:15:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,19:06)
kairos ozone red hard warming hole oil of focused tard slipping and sliding on the mat of the root onlookers.

it's hard to be sympathetic to douchebags I don't care if he is a pubic hair filer or public hare flier or a member of the card carrying syndrome of the toe writ large.  there comes a point where an asshole is just another asshole, evo mat sadly onlookers H'mmm darwinista close minded selective hyperskepticism merits always linked.  

i would like to see him fight a game rooster i imagine he could probably bore one to death.

Just an idle question, "How many here have seen a dead fighting cock"?  And I don't mean some word play on "limp penis."

Date: 2008/03/18 12:02:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 17 2008,21:58)
I've seen live ones.

I met a falconer with a red-tailed hawk who spoke of a breeder who got drunk enough to try the "My bird can take your bird!" line on him and wouldn't take "No" for an answer.

Wow! lol

Date: 2008/03/19 21:33:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (guthrie @ Mar. 19 2008,16:34)
And from the same John the Scot thread, Gerry Rzeppa convinces us that it is all science:
Quote
SCheesman asks, “Are Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses or Mormons excluded from the ID tent?”

They can certainly recognize design in universe, and are, in fact, without excuse if they don’t (Romans 1:20). But they mustn’t stop there, and it’s our job as Christians to do all we can to see that they don’t stop there, Acts 4:12. It’s not our job to merely get them facing the right hill; we’re commanded to take them all the way to the foot of the cross and beyond.

SCheesman says, “The danger of putting your own beliefs in God front and centre is that the debate on ID quickly becomes theological, not scientific, and yes, I understand the definition of theology that includes science. That distinction will be lost on those turning away once they encounter religious language.”

“Necessity is laid upon me”, SCheessman, “Yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!”, 1 Cor 9:16. I’m instructed to “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine”, 2 Tim 4:2. If they “turn away once they encounter religious language” they’re not my problem. Someone else will have to scratch their ears, 2 Tim 4:3.

SCheesman says, “It’s not dishonest, and it’s not bait-and-switch. It’s an honest appraisal of what the evidence can tell us.”

It’s an honest appraisal of some of what the evidence can tell us — Romans 1:20 suggests there’s enough evidence there to lead one, without excuse, to “the eternal power and Godhead” Himself.

SCheesman says, “There is nothing, however, to indicate that only God could possibly create life.”

Don’t be silly. Who else is up to the job?

It isn't just the UDerFailure gang, but the YECs are now the only anti-science presence on ARN.

I think the IDiots have abandoned the pretense of being merely scientific.  Keeping in mind that the "scientific creationists" isnsisted that they were purely sciencey all the way.

Date: 2008/03/21 14:14:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Paul Nelson @ Mar. 20 2008,07:23)
Another update --

I have three weeks of travel coming up, starting tomorrow (South Carolina & then Brazil), but I'll try to check in here periodically.

Paul, Did you mannage to mail the review copy of EE before your trip?

Thanks in advance,

GH

Date: 2008/03/21 16:46:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I doubt it matters that much which Pratchett book you first read.  I stated probably in the middle somewhere, and then bought them all.  I read them in publication order then in narrative sequecnes following particular character arcs.  Then in publication order again, and then randomly.

Date: 2008/03/23 12:13:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Mar. 23 2008,09:54)
Hey Richard: As I said on my blog, as a documentary filmmaker, I'm under no obligation to be objective. As a journalist supposedly reporting the news for a major daily, Cornelia Hunter is.

No, as a propagandist you have no obligation to be objective, nor honest.



Date: 2008/03/23 12:16:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Happy B'Day

Date: 2008/03/24 17:18:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Leftfield @ Mar. 24 2008,12:16)
Pannenberg Omega let slip this pearl of poorly punctuated non sequiturial wisdom:

   
Quote
Alot of the current Darwinian guys, were allegedly involved with radical causes during the 1960s.



Edit: And by "wisdom", I mean "TARD".

Guilty of being pro-Constitution, pro-environment, anti-racist, and anti-war.  

In short, not a conservative.

Date: 2008/03/25 17:26:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Obviously creationists want to smear science with anything they can think of from Nazis to acne.  But I think they are really getting-off on their repressed sexual fantasies more typical for the 1950s and '60s.  Here are a couple of images from that era to illustrate my point.  The first is an advertisement from a 1953 "men's magazine."



The title, "Eugenics and Sexual Harmony" is simply weird.  The ad copy is loaded with sexual dominance themes.

Then there is this book cover that stands as an example from an entire genera of Nazi sex fantasy;





Date: 2008/03/25 17:41:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Far out!  Those repressed lil' buggers.

Thank's.

Date: 2008/03/25 21:37:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 25 2008,06:05)
It looks like the remaining screenings are being completely reorganized and re-scheduled.

That's too bad. I've been collecting information about Michigan's statute 338 that applies to private security businesses and their employees. As I expected, such companies have to be bonded, and employees are issued identification cards. What I hadn't known was that was a felony for someone to falsely represent themselves as an employee of a private security business if they are not, in fact, an employee of a firm in compliance and bonded.

If Minnesota law is similar, PZ or others could see about getting an investigation into whether Mr. Security Guard at that screening was really a bona fide professional, or just someone in the entourage with a costume.

Michigan law, by the way, really appears to have it in for folks who make up fake shields and badges.

Wes, You would make one great PI.

Date: 2008/03/25 21:44:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (blader @ Mar. 25 2008,10:28)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 25 2008,09:05)
It looks like the remaining screenings are being completely reorganized and re-scheduled.

That's too bad. I've been collecting information about Michigan's statute 338 that applies to private security businesses and their employees. As I expected, such companies have to be bonded, and employees are issued identification cards. What I hadn't known was that was a felony for someone to falsely represent themselves as an employee of a private security business if they are not, in fact, an employee of a firm in compliance and bonded.

If Minnesota law is similar, PZ or others could see about getting an investigation into whether Mr. Security Guard at that screening was really a bona fide professional, or just someone in the entourage with a costume.

Michigan law, by the way, really appears to have it in for folks who make up fake shields and badges.

I figured it would come to this.

They are going to have to go underground and into secretive mode with their pre-screening.  They'll hold pre-screenings, but they won't tell anybody where they'll be.

Which is hilarious in so many ways if the entire point of the pre-screening campaign was to generate a buzz and interest for the broader big screen rollout.

There is some reason here to wonder if they really do have a contract to get it distributed or if that too is a bunch of BS

I know Flock of Dodo's tried hard but was never signed up for something like that.  It doesn't sound like expelled is the sort of movie you'd ever see at the Mall 16 unless it is underwritten by big, deep and really stupid pockets.

I don't see how they can flush their "buzz machine" and make an April 18th opening.

I have a director/editor nextdoor, and he tells me that you can mess with schedules all that the budget will allow- before you have contracted/announced your opening.  Theaters must know that the advertising and the product will come together at the same time.  They are going to have dead screens, and dead screens cost lots of money.

Date: 2008/03/25 22:16:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I can’t keep up. I dubed the press release as lie ver 5.01. But, that doesn’t do justice to all the lies the creationists are telling on this one.

I offered the following preliminary list at PT:

V. 1, PZ was “hustling people in line.”

v. 2, PZ was recognized and it was feared he would disrupt the movie.

v. 3, It amuzed Mark Mathis to kick PZ out, and make him pay to see himself after the movie release.

v. 4.1, Myers was kicked out, but Dawkins was let in because Dawkins had been a decent sort, and PZ had said bad things. (v. 4.2 This had all been descided in advance).

v. 5, PZ was kicked out and threatened with arrest to teach him a lessen.

There was also “PZ was kicked out because he didn’t have a ticket” which was the v. 0.0 beta they used while throwing him out of the Mall of America.

The sick irony of that deserves more comment that I have the stomach for right now.

Date: 2008/03/25 22:27:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Is 12 days too soon to wonder if Paul sent the book?  He said "Soon."  I guess I am spoiled by Amazon.

Date: 2008/03/25 23:16:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I indulged myself in my first lecture to the first year medical students.  I would begin, “I am Doctor Hurd.  I am a real Doctor.  I have a Ph.D.  I welcome you to your studies here at the Medical College where you will receive the M.D., or Masters of Disease.”

Much booing and hissing ensued.

One of my last lectures to a medical group was titled, "I am a real doctor, but..." which was on the different roles in medical education and research played by scientists and clinicians.

Date: 2008/03/25 23:20:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 25 2008,15:37)
"Eugenics and Sex Harmony" looked older to me than the 50's and 60s - and a quick Google diddle shows that it is:
From the Eugenics Archive.

I read the sample pages, and now I need to read the entire book as a reference for my new book.

Dang!  These jokes always twist back to bite.

I ordered the 1933 edition.



Date: 2008/03/26 00:50:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Yes, yes, I know. You want to see the damned pictures of Lou FCD in the red dress he wore to his Aunt Helen’s viewing.

No, I actually haven't the slightest interest.  So, you may rest easy that there is no pressure at all that might possibly encourage you to publicly reveal such a private moment.  Thanks anyway, but no thanks.

Date: 2008/03/26 01:01:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (BWE @ Mar. 25 2008,22:05)
Oh shit. Any guesses as to what's going to happen?

I am not sure at all.  The release might not actually have many screens locked, and those were given a guarantee.  If the producers have mega-psycho-creato money, they might be able to front a lot of screens.  Producers use other people's money, so at this point they can tank the movie, go straight to DVD, and blame the evil Darwinists for blocking their Oscar.  They get paid anyway.  If the film is as crappy as everyone says, then I would guess they have just taken the up-front money.



Date: 2008/03/26 01:24:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2008,23:05)
http://kevinwrites.typepad.com/otherwi....8308248

 
Quote
Okay, Rich, I've identified your two lines of attack: Ad hominem and guilt by association. Both of them make me strongly suspect that you are severely lacking in substance. But just to give you the benefit of the doubt, what's all this substance I've missed out on? I've been busy, and I don't have time to wade through hundreds of comments. Fire away. Ask me five questions and I'll answer them in a blog post.



FIVE GOOD QUESTIONS, PEOPLE.

Go for one question per day, max.  He gets the next question when the preceding one is finished.



Date: 2008/03/26 02:09:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am on a light beer diet.  Heineken light isn't that bad.  But real beer is so much better.  I have 8 bottles of Ancher Steam Pale Ale tucked away.  (3? there are only 3 left)!

Date: 2008/03/26 02:21:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2008,23:05)
http://kevinwrites.typepad.com/otherwi....8308248

Quote
Okay, Rich, I've identified your two lines of attack: Ad hominem and guilt by association. Both of them make me strongly suspect that you are severely lacking in substance. But just to give you the benefit of the doubt, what's all this substance I've missed out on? I've been busy, and I don't have time to wade through hundreds of comments. Fire away. Ask me five questions and I'll answer them in a blog post.



FIVE GOOD QUESTIONS, PEOPLE.

Why have the film makers assumed that creationists have been expelled because they are creationsits?  I think they were expelled for being incompetent.  Sternberg wasn't even expelled at all, nor Behe.  Dembski could have salvaged his job at Baylor if he hadn't been such a prick that nobody liked him.

Date: 2008/03/26 20:37:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ Mar. 26 2008,11:11)
Ummmmm, am I the only one who got wood looking at this?*

Louis

*Given that most of the people on here are about 90 I'm probably the only one who can actually get wood. Obviously Arden claims he can, but we all know differently. After all that website, www.ardenchatfieldishunglikeachinesemouseandhaserectiledysfunction.com, leaves very little to the imagination.

P.S. It should be obvious to all and sundry that the above is all intended as humour. Unless of course FTK snips the P.S. again! Oh now THAT was funny!

P.P.S. On topic: religious fundamentalists projecting and sublimating sexual fears as a whole swathe of other spurious problems? Say it ain't so! Surely the cliche of the sexually repressed loudmouthed proselytising anti-sex fundamentalist is sufficiently well documented to make some psychological sense? ;-)

I worked on a murder as a defense expert.  The prosecution argument was that the torn and fractured body was the result of protracted torture.  (the facts were otherwise)  I bought a pile of videos and print magazines of some very ugly torture that was voluntary, recreational "sex."  

They were never used in the case, but they freaked out my tax accountant until I pointed out the autopsy photos were much worse, and that I had to pay taxes on my fees.  I think that the Nazi=sex=guilt+sin is a part of the fundy rejection of science.  Not a big part, but the whole abortion, "abstance only," submissive wifey bit is all of a piece.  Phil Johnson and DI supporter Ahmanson are frothing anti-gay.  It is worth more than a footnote.



Date: 2008/03/26 22:39:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 26 2008,12:37)
This is a bit like salted peanuts. I can't make just one.


This is all so excellent!

Date: 2008/03/26 23:24:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My wife and I love reading, and regularly go to bed early and read.  I often read case notes in bed at night.  It turns out that when I am reading/viewing something particularly terrible, I say, "Oh my."  I don't say "holy fucking shit!" or anything like that.  I just say, "Ohmy."  

My wife has picked this up, and when I say "ohmy" she always demands to see what I am looking at.  I always tell her that it is a really bad one, and she replies, "I know- let me see it"  I think she does this so that I won't be alone. Many people who work in forensic studies start thinking that they are alone- that only colleagues can understand.  My wife checks that tendency merely by looking at the really bad stuff.

We attend meetings for science teachers.  Between dinner and desert there was a business meeting, and a lecture. One particular lecture was by a forensic scientist, and he had a fairly mild slide show of murder scenes, rape examinations, autopsies and so on.  A considerable number of people left the auditorium, a few went out and vomited.  My wife leaned over to me and whispered, "I feel bad that I don't feel bad."  "Sweetheart, you have seen worse at home in bed," I replied.   :O  There were lots of extra desert that night.   :D

Date: 2008/03/26 23:48:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote=dnmlthr,Mar. 26 2008,12:09][/quote]
Quote
Considering his "Ilse, She-Wolf of the SS" fetish, here's one:

"Sparta preceded Darwin with over 2000 years, yet their contemporaries wrote of them practicing eugenics. Did Darwin have a time machine and if so, do you find it plausible that oiled and muscled macho men (and women) would take advice from a(n over weight chronically ill) victorian gentleman?"


Minor add on edit.

Date: 2008/03/29 19:15:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Mar. 29 2008,16:52)
DaveT: "Mein Kampf isn’t even legal to buy, sell, or own in many European countries because of its contents and here’s Allen MacNeill trying to blame the holocaust on the bible."

I could be wrong, but Mein Kampf is illegal only in Germany and Austria, with some restrictions in France (you can only sell the version with commentaries from historians). Netherlands has some issues with copyrights and selling, but owning the book is not illegal. The vast majority of European countries allow the selling, buying and owning of Mein Kampf.

D'Tard is even more pointless.  Mein Kampf was published in 1925.  The Wikipedia has an entry on Mein Kampf, which included a section of availability.



Date: 2008/03/30 23:22:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
... scientists who think they’re smarter than everyone else when in reality they’re just nerds with no street survival skills? Smart, on the urban streets, is having a 9mm Glock and knowing how to use it not having a biology degree and knowing how to use it.


The survival probability of a biology professor is far higher than that of a "street" punk with a glock, therefore the professor is more fit.  D'Tard's idea that university professors lack in real world tuff-guy criminal experience is falsified by my personal experience.  Two of my orals committee faculty had served time, one in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary and the other in Joliet State Prison, both maximum security prisons.  My colleague Judy Suchey has a thirty year career of murder investigation.  I have participated in homicide investigations with Dr. Suchey, as well as in scientific studies of bone modification by violent death.  I also have years of experience as a private investigator, which is about a "street" as it gets.  I never needed a gun of any kind, because only testosterone poisoned idiots use guns.  (I have hit people and hurt them.  These were failures, not successes).  

When ever I see "tuff-guy" prancing from the likes of Davey Boy, or Ed Brayton, I know that they are frauds who would shit themselves in any actual danger.



Date: 2008/03/30 23:35:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ERV @ Mar. 30 2008,19:30)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 25 2008,23:16)
I indulged myself in my first lecture to the first year medical students.  I would begin, “I am Doctor Hurd.  I am a real Doctor.  I have a Ph.D.  I welcome you to your studies here at the Medical College where you will receive the M.D., or Masters of Disease.”

Much booing and hissing ensued.

One of my last lectures to a medical group was titled, "I am a real doctor, but..." which was on the different roles in medical education and research played by scientists and clinicians.

I think the PhD student vs MD student war has been going on since the beginning of time.

And so it shall ever be.  I had a colleague once ask why the Ph.D.s out numbered the MDs at one medical school I taught at.  I said, "Because medical care is too important to leave to MDs."

If you add in all the scientists in the pharma industry and the MPHs running most hospitals, medical doctors are not the top of the medical profession.

This could actually be a major fuck-up caused by the narrowness of the medical school curriculum.  People with the personality and skills to be scientists are not let into medical school anymore.  Small minded linear thinkers good at memorization become MDs.



Date: 2008/04/01 22:19:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have known people in all these categories, plus combinations.  Personally, I always have a knife, sometimes two.  I never took my unarmed training to "black belt," but I was my brother's punching bag/sparring partner for his JMAF black belt. (After his retirement from biochemistry (PhD Uni. Southern California 1982) he returned to teaching martial arts).  

Pacifism has not come "naturally."



Date: 2008/04/02 11:53:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

This comment made me squrim.

Quote
Who would have ever thought that it would take a Fork to show us that Denyse is done?


The image of sticking anything in DOL is just sick.

Date: 2008/04/02 12:51:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Louis, I wasn't being all that serious, but I am interested in the American association of violence and "competence," as D'Tard's recent comments about street thugs illustrate.  So maybe I was being a little serious.

Most people see the lighter side.

Date: 2008/04/02 12:53:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 02 2008,10:02)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 02 2008,11:53)
This comment made me squirm.

   
Quote
Who would have ever thought that it would take a Fork to show us that Denyse is done?


The image of sticking anything in DOL is just sick.

Or Denyse talking about money shots.   :O

Make sick.  Must go. Now.

Date: 2008/04/03 11:58:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The creationists keep harping about "follow the evidence" and "let's examine all the possibilities."

We did that already.

The only argument that any creationist has is that "the Bible said it different, " and "science is too hard and I don't have time to study."  Mr. Miller had time to make a propaganda film, but not the time to actually learn anything about the topic of his "work."

Date: 2008/04/03 13:10:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Fusilier, have you read "Muletrain to Maggody: An Arly Hanks Mystery (Arly Hanks Mysteries)" by Joan Hess?

You might have a chuckle or two.

She has one out featuring SCA as well, "Damsels in Distress (Claire Malloy Mysteries, No. 16)."

Date: 2008/04/03 18:13:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Gunthernacus @ April 03 2008,15:39)
Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,03:26)
You guys know what kerb crawling is?

Started to ask, then googled:  Wiki on kerb crawling
Then thought, "Oh, curb crawling."

These fuiners caint spel.

Date: 2008/04/03 22:00:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I'll just move this here on auto.  A thread in the "intelligent smoother" is in the science forum at the Amazon.com site.  

You might find it fun.

Date: 2008/04/03 22:00:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Hi Glenn.

I have more book reviews.

Date: 2008/04/03 22:27:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 03 2008,20:03)
OK, I've added the PT link and title for things coming from PT, which should help make somewhat more sense out of why particular things end up here.

Ah ha!  I hadn't thought so.

Date: 2008/04/04 12:53:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My reaction is that the author of the piece quoted is hyping a commercial fishery argument as a sport fisherman who opposes regional closure notions based largely on the Florida model.  They are using supposed personal experience to claim that stocks of popular sport and commercial catches (mostly genus Sebastes ) have suddenly recovered, or were never depleted.  When I first fished for Sebastes we used 5 to 15 hook ganions in as much as 1000 feet (~ 160 fathoms) of water.  This was “sport” fishing.   The populations had long been assessed by annual catches, but this ignored the great improvements in catches due to improved gear including electronics.  Populations were in steep decline as catches held steady, or increased.  

Systematic assessments made by biologists independent of commercial catch counts showed serious decline in groundfish populations.  For the first round of restrictions, there were limit reductions, and depth restrictions.  The commercial fishery organized the sport fishing groups to use political pressure to block restrictions.  The sport regulations were changed to reduce the number of hooks allowed, bag count limits, and depth restrictions.  In California the current rules allow only 2 hooks per line and no bottom fishing in over 60 fathoms (360 feet) of water.  To take the Yelloweye rockfish as an example, they range from 1,800 to 150 feet, so the 40 fathom restriction mentioned above would represent less than 10% of the Yelloweye habitat.  

The major reason that the comment author’s claim of see some great improvements is lame is that they have not made a systematic survey.  What sport fisherman, or diver is going to go where there are no fish to catch?  So all they are really saying is that they have found some places they can still kill fish.  Looked at in a different light, they are saying that the current regulations have stemmed the decline in ground fish (which I doubt based on at least as much personal experience here in Cali).

I also think that a 40 fathom restriction would suk.  

The photo below is of another species mentioned, a lingcod.  I took this as part of a research project (tag and release).  The blood on my pants is my own- lings have very sharp teeth and gillrakers. Because we couldn't use a gaff, I brought the larger fish over by hand.  We were in 750 feet of water.





Date: 2008/04/04 13:42:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
A second thought is that Mark Gotchall has made a point regarding the notion that warm, southeast US coastal waters are not like the cold water northwest.  But, the point isn't for his team.  Cold water species reproduce and grow much slower than the warm water species.  Consequently, the need for closures is greater in the NW.

As to "are we fucked?"  There is an old joke: A fellow slipped of the top of the Empire State Building.  As he passed the 8th floor H shouted, "So far So good!"

We are so fucked.



Date: 2008/04/04 14:05:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (BWE @ April 04 2008,11:43)
My brother picked up a 4 or 5 lb northern pike by the lip when we were kids. oops.

That would bleed a lot!

I have a writing project outlined that I more or less abandoned becasue it was just to damned depressing.  Instead, I go fishing.





Date: 2008/04/04 18:10:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Science denial is not limited to evolution.  The policalization of the religious faction under Nixon's Southern Strategy created the far-right of today.  

What I have never understood are the people who knew better.  The oil company executives knew about the end of cheap oil.  They knew about global warming.  The impact of salt buildup in irrigated soils was known in Sumeria 5,000 years ago even if they attributed it to gods.  But the warnings came from scientists.

Take a familiar example from Panda's Thumb, Timothy Sandefur.  He works for a gang of lawyers, the Pacific Legal Foundation, that boast about their "wins" promoting clear cutting, blocking endangered species protection and helping school re-segregation.

Date: 2008/04/04 18:49:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (BWE @ April 04 2008,16:30)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 04 2008,18:10)
Science denial is not limited to evolution.  The policalization of the religious faction under Nixon's Southern Strategy created the far-right of today.  

What I have never understood are the people who knew better.  The oil company executives knew about the end of cheap oil.  They knew about global warming.  The impact of salt buildup in irrigated soils was known in Sumeria 5,000 years ago even if they attributed it to gods.  But the warnings came from scientists.

Take a familiar example from Panda's Thumb, Timothy Sandefur.  He works for a gang of lawyers, the Pacific Legal Foundation, that boast about their "wins" promoting clear cutting, blocking endangered species protection and helping school re-segregation.

Thanks Gary. That's what I think I meant to say right from the start. The mindset that resources are convertable to currency and back again. It's like saying well, hell. We've converted the matter to energy, now we'll just convert it back.

ETA: And it sometimes pisses me off just a little.

It pisses me off a lot.  Where do these fuckers think they are going to live?  This is the only planet they have.  

Then there are these "survivalists."  Scheech, what dipsticks.  I asked one of those idiots what kind of chicken he was planning on raising (I favor Road Island Reds), and which breed of goat (I haven't decided).  He looked at me blankly and went back to talking about his guns.

When President Carter tried to tell people about the need to conserve oil, and about why foreign oil was screwing up our policies, and on and on, the right-wing brayed about how he was a fool.



Date: 2008/04/07 14:42:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ April 07 2008,11:38)
Carlsonjok: I'm not trying to duck a bullet here; you are. I believe Weikart's arguments linking Darwinian science to Hitler's ethics are credible. Rather than stand and mock, study them for yourself and then offer a reasoned response.

You have very arrogantly assumed we have not read Weikart’s trash book.  I have it on my lap at the moment I write this.  It is so full of crap I could fertilize a cornfield with it.  But in order to know this you would actually need to read the original authors Weikart misrepresented, Darwin not the least, but dozens of others.  Even recent historians such as Robert Proctor are misrepresented by Weikart.

Date: 2008/04/07 16:44:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Hermagoras @ April 07 2008,05:53)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 28 2008,02:30)

Baumgardner was mainly a code monkey.  His work was not on plate tectonics.  As I recall, he worked on seismic data related to nuclear tests.

He wrote a well-known but now largely outdated geophysical modeling program called TERRA.  It was the first useful computer model for (IIRC) mantle convection and other large-scale dynamics.  Recently he's been tweaking the program to support his idea of the Noachian flood.  With advances in computer modeling generally and discovered weaknesses in the TERRA program, Baumgardner's program is no longer state-of-the-art even for computer models.

I wrote this some years ago;

Quote
John Baumgardner converted to fundamentalism and became a young Earth creationist as an engineering student. Years later, he pursued a doctorate in geophysics which he received from UCLA in 1983. He describes that his motivation for graduate study was focused on Noah's flood, "Back in 1978 I felt strongly led to go back to graduate school and get professional credentials to work on the problem of what happened to the Earth in the flood." Unlike the majority of science students, Baumgardner's interest in a science career was not related to discovering true facts about nature. In his own words, "I would say my primary goal in my scientific career is a defense of God's Word, plain and simple." ( http://www.rae.org/believe.html accessed 12, April 2004).

Date: 2008/04/07 21:29:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
A JD, or a DDiv would I suppose go in the humanities category. Actually, the US Congress had a fair number of PhDs and MDs, compared to the general population.  There are far more lawyers, but the business of Congress is the law.  I am not surprised that most Judges are lawyers.

Community Colleges are a great educational bargain that I support wholeheartedly.  They are also full of faculty that washed out of graduate school with a terminal masters degree. They tell themselves they are "better" teachers because they could not survive in research science.  In my student experience, the best researchers make the best teachers.  I had the publications and teaching awards to match my assertion.  I was also sacked from a community college the same year I was named "teacher of the year" and had 11 undergraduates coauthor research papers with me.  Being good is not popular among second rank faculty.



Date: 2008/04/07 21:48:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Henry J @ April 07 2008,19:44)
Has anybody mentioned that eugenics is closer to artificial selection than to natural selection?

Not to mention also that if evolution teaches anything, it teaches that more variety = better chance of surviving a disaster that wipes out 1 or 2 of the current varieties. Otoh, less variety = the next disaster might wipe out the 1 variety that the eugenics program left intact (i.e., oops).

Henry

Even if they have, it bears repeating.  Kevin probably needs to hear this several times.

Date: 2008/04/07 21:53:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
In 1938 the Nazi "Office of Racial Policy" publication Inromationsdienst Martin Luther’s advice on the “proper” treatment of Jews was given prominent display:

Quote
... to put their synagogues and schools to fire, and what will not burn, to cover with earth and rubble so that no-one will ever again see anything there but cinders ... Second, one should tear down and destroy their houses, for they do also in there what they do in their schools and synagogues ... And third, one should confiscate their prayer books and Talmud, in which idolatry and lies, slander and blasphemy is taught” From Proctor 1988: 88.


The founder of Protestant Christianity was a greater inspiration to the Nazis than any scientist.  Science, politicized by the same conditions that radicalized both Left, and Right, was used as justification for actions long advocated as “Christian.”  The political philosophy that was called Social Darwinism only in the 1940s was infuential in the organization of the Society for Racial Hygiene (Gesellschaft für Rassenhygiene) through the efforts of Alfred Poletz and to a lesser degree Ernst Haeckel and others.  Poletz was a believer in Nordic superiority, and he quickly formed a secret group of racists active within the Society who were strongly influenced by the racial theories of Arthur Comte de Gobineau published in the early 1850s (well before Darwin's books).  This followed the creationist theories of the "pre-Adamites" who went so far as to claim that Negroes had been created on the Genesis fifth day with "other beasts of the field."

Finding 19th century American racists is not hard.  Finding American fascists is not hard, even today.  Showing that they owe their bigotry to evolutionary biology is a fallacy.  For example, as Küehl himself observed, the 1936 Nazi Party recommended reading list on human heredity, (Rassenkunde: Eine Auswahl des wichtigsten Scrifttums aus dem Gebit der Rassenkunde, Vererbungslehre, Rassenpflege und Bevölkerunspolitik) mentioned only two non-German authors: American Madison Grant's Passing of the Great Race (translated into German in 1925, and French Arthur Comte de Gobineau's The inequality of Human Races (1853-1855).  

Gobineau had a strong influence on Grant's work and was very influencial with German,  American, and British racists for that matter, and published his book well before Darwin's works became public.  

Robert N. Proctor's 1988  book Racial Hygene:Medicine Under the Nazis (Boston: Harvard University Press) has a much better analysis of not only the connections between international racists, but the intellectual associations of the Nazi death machine than the miserable crap by Weikart.

There is an excellent passage in Evans pg. 92-93:

Quote
"The minutes [taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt] for the second day's meeting, on 17 April 1943, recorded a statement by Ribbentrop, in Hitler's presence, to a point made by Horthy: "On Horthy's retort, what should he do with the Jews then, after he had pretty well taken all means of living from them-- he surely couldn't beat them to death-- the Reich Foreign Minister [Ribbentrop] replied that the Jews must either be annihilated or taken to concentration camps. There is no other way."

Hitler almost immediately confirmed Ribbentrop's explicitly murderous statement at some length: Hitler: "Where the Jews were left to themselves, as for example in Poland, gruesome poverty and degeneracy had ruled. They were just pure parasites. One had fundamentally cleared up this state of affairs in Poland. If the Jews there didn't want to work [in Third Reich concentration camps], they were shot. If they couldn't work they had to perish. They had to be treated like tuberculosis bacilli, from which a healthy body could be infected. That was not cruel, if one remembered that even innocent natural creatures like hares and deer had to be killed so that no harm was caused. Why should one spare the beasts who wanted to bring us Bolshevism more? Nations who did not rid themselves of Jews perished." (references and footnotes are found in Evans, 2001:92-93)


Here we have Hitler, in his argument to Hungary's Admiral Horthy, invoking not an übermench racist position, but an anti-Bolshevik, and nationalist one.  If Hitler tried to draw rhetorical support from Social Darwinism arguing in Mein Kampf, it is not evident anywhere from the text, and in any event was at most merely a twig on the trunk of his anti-Semitism. His opposition is to what he considered a Marxist threat, not drawn from Darwin, which was at most a rationalization of his hatred than its origin.  Further, the theoretical models and dominant metaphors Hitler drew from did  not include evolution at any event, but the Germ Theory of Disease, and Christianity.



Date: 2008/04/07 22:20:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
By "in public" I mean direct face-to-face encounters, and for the poll- not in lectures nor on stage, nor on internet chat/BB.  I wonder how often we engage our family and acquaintances in evo/creato discussion.

I go on a public fishing boat at least one day a week.  There are few of these days that I don't engage someone in discussing science, and fewer that I don't find a creationist or two.  Social research shows that face-to-face encounters are more potent in changing opinion than any other form of communication (including cheap movies).

Date: 2008/04/08 00:10:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Thought Provoker @ April 07 2008,16:57)
Hi Mr. Christopher,

You got my attention with banned/burnt Darwin books.

I made the effort to find Nick's Panda's Thumb post on this.

It provides evidence Darwin's ideas were banned by Nazis (which is telling enough).

Do you have any further evidence that Darwin's books were actually burnt?

The irony in the ID/Darwin wars never ceases to amaze me, not matter which side you look at it from.

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279  

Die Bucherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published these collection evaluation "guidelines" during the second round of "purifications" (saüberung).
 
6. Schriften weltanschaulichen und lebenskundlichen Charakters, deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufklärung eines primitiven Darwinismus und Monismus ist (Häckel).

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279
6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel)

"Purified" was by fire, just like the Christian Neo-fascist Christian Reconstruction followers of Rushdoony, and his Chalcedon Institute would do to non-christians today.  Oh, and it just happens that the Discovery Institute's initial funding came from the Chalcedon Institute's "angel," Howard Ahmanson Jr.

Date: 2008/04/08 03:56:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 08 2008,00:36)
Quote (stevestory @ April 08 2008,02:30)
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 08 2008,03:21)
I think the issue is more honesty than intellect, Sternberger.

I'm still agnostic on that. Kevin just strikes me as the kind of person who has never had a single class in philosophy of science, or european history, and yet imagines that he knows what he's talking about. Even though it's clear he doesn't.

Initially, I thought the same. But he's had it spelled out to him lots of different ways now. Perhaps he now knows, but with film release coming, is keeping schtum.
The tragedy is he's peddling lies about one of the greatest human atrocities ever. Odious.

Good point.  Kevin and his co-whore Stein are cashing in on the deaths of millions.  And, if they are really successful and do turn civilization back a few hundred years, they might cause more deaths than even the Nazis.  Just think how IDiots wil kill people by denying antibiotics, biochemistry, global warming, species loss an all the rest of science.

On the other hand, Panda's Thumb promotes assholes that oppose public education, endangerd species protection, habitat protection, and really are not that different from Kevin.

Date: 2008/04/08 16:13:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dheddle @ April 08 2008,11:11)
Please tell me if by your definition (there are so many conflicting definitions) whether or not I am a creationist--so I know if I am allowed to reply.

Well, if you aren't sure neither am I.  How would you vote?  That seems more interesting than the poll anyway.

My father-in-law is deeply religious, a church elder, and so on.  He was even a member of the same church as Howard Ahmanson Jr.  He periodically askes me for facts and arguments he can use in bible classes, or church meeting regarding the evo/creato conflict.  There is nothing about being Christian that requires you to reject science.

Date: 2008/04/08 16:25:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 08 2008,07:59)
If you haven't read it yet, I'd recommend a recent article in Science ("Crossing the Divide", Jennifer Couzin, Science 319:1034-36, 22 Feb 2008), documenting the history of a paleontologist raised in a YEC family.

His experience is published as a book written with his brother-in-law, a minister, who went through the same process of discovery and learning.

Stephen J. Godfrey, Christopher R. Smith
2005 "Paradigms on Pilgrimage" Toronto: Clements Publishing

Date: 2008/04/08 16:27:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (snscience @ April 05 2008,10:10)
I teach high school biology. I went through all the textbooks (approximately 15) I considered during our last adoption year (4 years ago). Not one of them mentions Haeckel. Not one them includes Haeckel's drawings. Not one of them mention's "ontology recapitulates phylogony."

Tony

Would it be possible to put together a bibliography of the HS textbooks you checked?  It might come in very handy when creationists parrot DI nonsense.

Date: 2008/04/09 14:03:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was thinking about D'Tard's truck picture sporting a butterfly, and I thought to post a photo of wildlife growing on my truck.  I get the most kick out of the lichen:

Date: 2008/04/10 01:04:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
What a pathetic dickhead.  Sal, not George.

Date: 2008/04/10 18:33:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (PennyBright @ April 10 2008,16:30)
I suppose I could always pull out the FSM pattern,  or maybe a knit a random
cephalopod,  to go see it in proxy for PZ.

I still think I may bend my ethics though,   and figure out a way to not have to pay to see the thing.   Bother a buddy who works up there, maybe.

If it is in a megaplex, buy a ticket for some other movie.  Or, you could send a guilt donation of the ticket price to the NCSE.

Date: 2008/04/13 00:55:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (godsilove @ April 12 2008,15:51)
Does anybody know more about this Maciej Giertych guy, who was interviewed by Ben Stein for Expelled?

He is the only reason I was ever published in Nature.

Date: 2008/04/14 15:37:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Fundy rap on “Expelled.”

Expelled the movie, opens April 18.

Quote
Cindy C.,  “I'll bet satan will be causing lots of flat tires on the way to see that movie.”  

Date: 2008/04/14 22:43:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My interest was how often the proscience folks on the intertubes actually are willing to ingage in face-to-face interactions pro-science and contra-creationism.  F2F is the most effective, the most influential form of human communication.  

Any other discussion has not been relevant.

Date: 2008/04/14 22:52:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ April 14 2008,17:58)
I've been expelled from Kevin Miller's limerick competition:

 
Quote

Some company, Plagiarmation
Once copied a cell animation
"inner life of the cell"
it's as blatent as hell
so now we await litigation

A comp'ny that really excelled
at lying to rubes was compelled
to exploit deaths of jews
to get in the news
a pile of shite called "expelled"


Sorry, Steve H. Had to delete your contribution for legal reasons.

Edit: For scanniness. Rats! is there no word that google can't find?

Dang that is good.

Date: 2008/04/14 23:19:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (rhmc @ April 14 2008,15:21)
had a bald eagle soaring over the house friday afternoon.  

setting sun highlighting the white head, white tail, brown wings.

and i hope to view a bunch of seagoing crustaceans this weekend as i've deployed the crabtraps in the estuary.

Baldies are really fun to watch grab fish.  Santa Catalina Island has 4(?) mated pairs.  Last years chicks are quite large and have already learned to hit on the sport fishing boats. We spilf a mackeral so that it stays on the surface and get a good view of the eagles taking the fish.  Last year we got to see an eagle nail a seagull which is the obverse of most of their interactions.  A half dozen or so gulls, or some of the island ravens will often harass an eagle until they are forced to perch.

Date: 2008/04/14 23:26:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Henry J @ April 14 2008,20:58)
Can deer eat cactus without hurting themselves on the spines? There's a patch of some kind of cactus near the parking lot where I live, and something has taken bites out of some of its flat oval shaped sections. The shape of the missing pieces suggests something with a fairly large mouth, maybe deer sized.

Henry

Yeah, I have seen them do it.  Cattle too, even with needles all over their faces.  I saw a photo of a steer with pads stuck to his face.

Coyotes are passionate for prickely pear fruit.  They get terribly spiked up, and even get diarrhea from the amount of fruit they eat- scat that are merely purple stained mucus and opuntia seeds.  

We have junkies, so I see there is no need to feel superior.

Date: 2008/04/15 00:33:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
riff on Maya,

There was a screenwriter named Miller,
who thought he'd create the next thriller,
with Nazis and fraud
he is a lying sod
who traded Darwin for Hitler

Date: 2008/04/15 02:01:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (CeilingCat @ April 14 2008,22:12)
kairosfocus to leave us?    
Quote
Now, on why I have taken the effort to make this now extended — and BTW, drawing to a conclusion (have patience, soon you will not have to “bother” with me here at all . . .) — blog visit to UD:

Are we going to lose kf?  What will the world do for jocularity?

Well maybe he has a terminal condition.  Oh, we all have a terminal condition.  My bad.

Maybe he has a more proximate terminal condition.

Date: 2008/04/15 11:39:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 15 2008,06:30)
b3:Why do the dogs never learn the skunk stinks?

I once had a dog that liked skunk spray.  Even when the skunk missed him, he would go for a good roll in it.  Otherwise he was normal.

Date: 2008/04/15 11:40:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I haven't received my review copy, but I still look forward to it.

Date: 2008/04/16 10:52:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I hope you had a good trip.  The Dengue Fever news from Brazil did not sound good.

Date: 2008/04/16 13:59:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ April 16 2008,10:11)
This Just In:

An email addressed to "Friends Of Expelled" begging for help against the Evil Darwinists.

Sorry, I saw nothing at your link.

Edited to add: Thanks Jim.

That is some primo tard.



Date: 2008/04/16 14:10:44, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ April 16 2008,10:28)
Quote (REC @ April 16 2008,12:18)
Just for fun:

Quiz: Hitler, Luther, Or Pat Robertson?

Betty Bowers

I'll give you a hint on #1....its not Luther....
"We were convinced that the people need and require this [Christian] faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: [to] stamp it out."

I got an 8, that damn Robertson sounded too much like Hitler and screwed up my score.

Damn you Robertson!  Damn you all to hell!

It was so hard to seperate Adolf from Pat. I scored a 7.

Date: 2008/04/16 15:20:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I liked Dusty when he managed the Giants.  He can get more play out of the worst teams than any other manager I recollect.  


This was my nephew's first ever professional game.  He was the Ashville catcher.

Date: 2008/04/16 18:20:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (ERV @ April 16 2008,14:56)
I was planning on going to check out the animation, but they removed XVIOVs stuff, so I dont care anymore.

Are we sure?

Besides, I am going to pass out cards saying;

The movie you have just watched, Expelled, contains little actual fact and many misrepresentations and outright lies. For the actual evidence, visit

http://www.expelledexposed.com

Date: 2008/04/16 22:41:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Quidam @ April 16 2008,18:55)
 
Quote
Vegemite is better than marmite,
Yeah and Fosters is better than horse piss, but not much.

Bloody colonials... mutter

I am afraid I have never drunk horse piss, so I fail to grasp the comparison.

There was one wine review I read for "Alabama Wild Mountain Gape Wine."  It said,  
Quote
When this wine was submited to the State Agricultural Board for analysis, the grower received the following letter,

"Dear Sirs,

We regrets to inform you yer Mule has got that diebeties."

Date: 2008/04/17 10:55:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"lead animator, Joseph Condeelis; animation, Light Prods., Out of Our Mind Studios"

Condeelis heads Light Productions.  Their main products are religious films, and their demo reel is very weak in animation. "Out of Our Mind Studios" at least has won an animation award (New Hampshire, 2005).  The release running time is given as 88 min.s, down from the March 28 review copies at 97 min.s.



Date: 2008/04/17 15:25:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

Date: 2008/04/18 01:04:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Dang, that is post of the month.

Date: 2008/04/18 01:30:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My next door neighbor is a film editor and director.  I just told him about a few of the "expelled" screw ups.

He can't imagine how they could open at all.

This is going to be very interesting.

Date: 2008/04/18 01:40:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (godsilove @ April 17 2008,23:29)
Josh Friedman of the LA Times believes it will exceed forecasts:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-projector18apr18,1,4982009.story

How appropriate, when I read the LA Times link, there was an advert for Chapman University  They (CU) said they had written a job description with me in mind.  The only problem was that they never asked me what kind of job I wanted.  Their position as advertised was one I didn't even apply for.  The free lunches were nice, and I still like and respect my friends that teach there.

Date: 2008/04/18 02:15:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (godsilove @ April 17 2008,22:48)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ April 18 2008,00:42)
Sal takes aim at foot...    
Quote

By the way, here is another episode where the one-time grad student Casey Luskin was “outed” by PT-mafioso Wesley Elsberry. Elsberry was intent on making trouble for Luskin, and pulled a lowly stunt when he came to speak at Casey’s class.
See:
No comparison to Celeste Biever.
PT-mafiosos have been coming to our IDEA meetings in 2006. That was creepy!!! I have sinced cancelled publicly advertised meetings and call the meetings privately.

Big Science is suppressing ID with the weapon of debate.  Oh noes!!

What fucking shits.

When Jonathan Wells gave a talk at UC San Diego back in 2001, I, and a lot of the people who later became the Panda's Thumb crew, prepared a handout we delivered to people at the door.  There was Wesley, Matt, and I.  Wes was taking pictures.  Casey fuckwit was working the door.  I gave him a copy of the handout.  He freaked.  He wanted to know who Nick Matzke was. Nick had been posting a lot at the DiskoTute website, ARN, and had written the bulk of the handout we were using that night.  I told Luskin that I thought Nick was a graduate student at UC Santa Barbara.  The next day Casey was "outing" Nick as if it was some major achievement of his.

I never had bought into the internet anonymity bit, but I did feel bad that I had let Casey "bust" Nick.  My 'handle' Dr.GH has always been easily penetrated with just a few clicks.

For Casey to piss and moan about Wes is the grossest hypocrisy.  While I expect very little from Casey, he still managed to disappoint me.



Date: 2008/04/18 12:52:19, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (improvius @ April 18 2008,06:19)
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 17 2008,16:25)
 
Quote (improvius @ April 17 2008,06:57)
Reviews are starting to roll in now.  Current Tomatometer rating: 11% and falling.

Down to 9%.

8%

7%

Missed it by >< that much



Date: 2008/04/18 13:08:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (godsilove @ April 18 2008,00:24)
Dr. GH - I'd just like to say that you, along with the rest of the folks at TO and PT are doing a great service to science education.  I think it's unfortunate that so many scientists are in their ivory towers, so it's absolutely vital that scientists such as yourself take the time to address the spurious claims of the creationist movement.  By the way, have you also posted on CARM?

I blush.  Wes has been in this for more years than I.  Last I checked I was banned at CARM as well as Rapture Ready. I was pre-banned at UD.  I tried to register just to get a reaction from D'Tard.

Date: 2008/04/18 13:41:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Dr. Robert A. Herrmann
Professor of Mathematics (Ret.)
U. S. Naval Academy**
Site Index Follows
This Announcement of My Book on
Intelligent Design and the GGU-model,
The General Theory of Everything.



Quote
In 1979, I originator the mathematical analysis that shows that the production of and alterations in the behavior of any natural-system are intelligently designed. My analysis (the GID-model, GID) is not related, in method, to the inadequate mostly insignificant and highly criticized Johnson-Dembski-Behe theory (RID) as championed by members of the Discovery Institute.


We can all go back to doing other things, like scratching fleas, or growing mushroms.  Dr. Robert A. Herrmann has it all figured out.

Date: 2008/04/19 16:01:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
About 160,857 people across the land are now slightly more ignorant than they were on Thursday.

Date: 2008/04/19 16:17:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 19 2008,14:10)
Am I breaking any rules when I say I've been reading Kevin Miller's blog for a while now and it's easy to conclude Kevin Miller XI is a whiny little pussy?

It's an informed conclusion, it's not like I'm calling him a little pussy because I don't like him.  

Anyhow, sorry if I have broken any rules, feel free to delete this post or banish me to UD for it, but I just felt the need to be blunt. What a whiny little dishonest weak sister.

Me.

Well, there is a slight (alot) of sexism in you choice of invective.  I perfer the gender neutral "ass hole" or "scum sucking worm" or "turd brained coward."  You get the idea.

Date: 2008/04/20 16:51:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
These were from a project I worked on back in 1989.

Mommy Kitty (angry)



Boy Kitty (stoned)




We tagged these about 10 miles from the house.  Boy Kitty got his first radio collar and a tatt.  Mommy Kitty got a new battery for her collar.  They both got shots.  We used dirty stinky bandanas to cover their eyes so they would associate people stink with sore butts and headaches.  The anal probes were just rectal thermometers (we had to keep them cooled below 104 F, preferably <102 F).



Date: 2008/04/20 17:16:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ April 20 2008,14:58)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 20 2008,22:47)

Can't say I saw anything like this coming.

To be honest, it doesn't feel like he did either. At any rate, good for him, even if it would turn out to be temporary.

D'Tard several years ago was posting on a rightwing hate BB about how I was a dispicable unAmerican Muslim appeaser, and that all good Americans should go and E-bomb Panda's Thumb.

He ended up chewing them all out for being Mexican hating racists.  He can be occasionaly selective in his hate.

Date: 2008/04/21 09:33:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the link.

I addressed some of the yec moon arguments in "Oard's Moonbeam.".



Date: 2008/04/21 12:19:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 21 2008,08:19)
HA HA THIS IS YOU. :angry:

LOL, I just lost 2 hours.

Date: 2008/04/21 19:10:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Doc Bill @ April 21 2008,16:34)
However, let us not forget that Ben Stein did not write this movie, Kevin Miller did.

Ben is just the face, albeit one we'd all like to forget.

Ben Stein is given writer credits, and is such an active and willing shill for the movie that I think that he deserves all that he gets.



Date: 2008/04/22 12:14:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Happy B'Day

Date: 2008/04/23 17:14:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (CeilingCat @ April 23 2008,01:52)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30)
Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here

Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair).

Did anybody else's Gaydar go off as soon as Paul Crouch Jr. started talking?  Mark my words, we're going to hear about this boy someday.

His father has paid out hundreds of thousands in hush money to butt boys.  Maybe there is a gay gene?

Date: 2008/04/27 15:52:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Paul, Should you wander by, do you think that the review copy of EE that you promised has been mailed?  

Thanks

Date: 2008/04/27 15:57:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (snscience @ April 09 2008,19:17)
Quote
Would it be possible to put together a bibliography of the HS textbooks you checked?  It might come in very handy when creationists parrot DI nonsense.


Will do. It might be a few days before I can get to it.

Tony

Howdy Tony,

I don't want to be a nag, but did you find any time for that bibliography?

The Discovery Institute's Jon Wells is sure that there are lots of books with all sorts of evil lies about Haeckel, moths, and what not.  Casey said so too.

Date: 2008/04/28 21:39:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 28 2008,19:19)
I don't like it.  There is no reason to slur Apaches by comparing them to those mendacious intellectual pornographers.

I agree.

Date: 2008/04/28 23:14:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, I have had some other sphinx moths today, mostly white lined.  The most cool visitor was a downey woodpecker.  If you are in an area where they are common, they might not be a big deal.  Here they are rare so I get a kick out of seeing them.

The english sparrows have wiped-out the mourning cloak caterpillars.  We had several painted lady butterflies this morning.  I watched a 12 spot lady beetle emerge.  Sorry I forgot pictures (I tried on the woodpecker, but they were cummy).

I went fishing at Santa Catalina Island today (about 10 species of fish cuaght) and saw quite a number of gulls, terns, cormerants, shearwaters, pelicans etc...  Also a bald eagle. Sea Lions were all over the place as usual. Just outside Dana Point harbor we saw a blue whale.



Date: 2008/05/02 21:24:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Howdy.

I watched a short part of an interview Stein did this afternoon on CNN Headline News talking head Glenn Beck. I got dizzy and had purple spots in front of my eyes.  Stein was explaining that even today German doctors pass out pills to kill people.  Maybe I hallucinated.  No... he actually said that.

Date: 2008/05/05 10:57:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 05 2008,08:24)
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 03 2008,14:19)
Denyse "forgets" to mention that Weikart is a DI fellow and the DI paid for his book...


http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelle....ocities

Rich I have seen where the DI is supposedly to have funded all or a part of the book.  I have only seen it sourced at one blog.  Do you have any/other sources for it?  I obviously missed that memo.

Was this ever written about at PT or?

Thanks

In the preface to "From Darwin to Hitler," Weikart thanks, "the "Center for Science and Culture" (especially Jay Richards and Steve Meyer), which provided critical funding and much encouragement..."



Date: 2008/05/05 13:44:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ May 05 2008,10:02)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 05 2008,10:57)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 05 2008,08:24)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 03 2008,14:19)
Denyse "forgets" to mention that Weikart is a DI fellow and the DI paid for his book...


http://www.uncommondescent.com/expelle....ocities

Rich I have seen where the DI is supposedly to have funded all or a part of the book.  I have only seen it sourced at one blog.  Do you have any/other sources for it?  I obviously missed that memo.

Was this ever written about at PT or?

Thanks

In the preface to "From Darwin to Hitler," Weikart thanks, "the "Center for Science and Culture" (especially Jay Richards and Steve Meyer), which provided critical funding and much encouragement..."

I've added a comment to the Wikipedia talk page on the issue.

I followed up with
Quote
       Let me add the following from Weikart's offical vita:

Funding sources;

  1. Sabbatical from CSU, Stanislaus, 2000-2001, to write first draft of a book, "Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Devaluing Human Life in Germany."
  2. Research Fellowships from the Center for Science and Culture, 2000-2001, 1998-99, 1997; partial funding for a sabbatical and released time, plus funding for three trips to archives in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, and Poland.
  3. Research, Scholarship, and Creative Activity Grants from California State University, Stanislaus, 2000-2001, 1999-2000, 1998-99, 1997-98, 1996-97, 1995-96; grants for research assistants and funds for travel to European archives, UC-Berkeley, Stanford, and the Hoover Institution.

So, Weikart may be correct that he has taken more dollars from his home university than from extramural sources. In my experience, many developmental grants (the majority of his Cal State University grants) are from pooled donations and are supposed to facilitate initial work leading to either extramural funding, or direct classroom/faculty activities. Academic history departments are not in my experience, but in the sciences such little research funding would lead to dismissal, and not tenure. Gary Hurd (talk) 18:36, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Date: 2008/05/05 16:49:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
May 5, 2008.

The postman just laughed at me when I told him that Paul had promised to mail me a review copy of EE.  He did! He Did!

Tomorrow will be the 2 month mark.  Maybe it will come.



Date: 2008/05/06 14:01:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Climate troubles brewing for beer makers

Rising temperatures are affecting European hop harvests.

Quote
Plant scientists from Europe are attempting to breed new varieties that can withstand warmer climates, and are planning to install major irrigation systems where traditionally the hop plants haven’t needed additional watering. On Monday 5 May, plant scientists will hash through such issues at a hop conference at the Hop Museum in Wolnzach, Germany.


Nature News

Date: 2008/05/06 15:19:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ May 06 2008,07:11)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 05 2008,16:49)
May 5, 2008.

The postman just laughed at me when I told him that Paul had promised to mail me a review copy of EE.  He did! He Did!

Tomorrow will be the 2 month mark.  Maybe it will come.

Maybe Paul read your request during his latest comment-free drive-by.    
Quote
Paul Nelson   Viewing a topic in: After the Bar Closes...   May 06 2008,08:43

Or maybe he's waiting for that second printing, so that you can see all the corrections he made, based on our comments here.

Or maybe he's a dishonest creationist...

I am sure he will send it. It is probably already in the mail.  He wouldn't lie.

ETA: I just checked the mail- it didn't come yet.



Date: 2008/05/09 18:40:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I went fishing today.  I just can't wait by the mail box all day every day.  When I got home the mail had arrived, but not a promised review copy of EE.

Date: 2008/05/09 20:48:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The last theater in 10 miles of my house showing Expelled has the following data on their website regarding the phauxumentry:

Reviews:
· "As a work of nonfiction filmmaking it is a sham and as agitprop it is too flimsy to strike any serious blows." Los Angeles Times
- Mark Olsen

· "...a flimsy attempt to discredit Darwinist theory as the cornerstone of modern biology..." Variety
- Justin Chang

Similar Movies You Might Like;

·NOVA: Judgement Day - Intelligent Design on Trial
·A Flock of Dodos: The Evolution-Intelligent Design Circus

Date: 2008/05/11 16:13:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My dearly beloved wife brought me a bottle of Macallan Elegancia, or as the lable has it THE MACALLAN.

Lovely, but now it is all gone and I have no more.

I was on the morning fishing boat today and brought home about 30LBs of bonito which is curing in a salt/sugar mix getting ready for the smoker.  They were all large fish, so I'll give them 2 days to soak.  I plan to use mesquite+oak+white sage for the smoke. The oak I have is from old Jack Daniels barrels.  It is a gimmick really, they are not any better than any other oak.

I had a bit already as shashimi.  Very tasty.  There were literally acres of 10 to 18 LB fish, so I think I'll be out again in a few days.

Date: 2008/05/12 19:14:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, I went to see the stinker this afternoon.  I took about 20 pages of notes (in the dark).  I can hardly think of how to begin describing how bad this piece of crap is.

Date: 2008/05/13 17:56:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Coyote @ May 12 2008,20:14)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 13 2008,05:14)
Well, I went to see the stinker this afternoon.  I took about 20 pages of notes (in the dark).  I can hardly think of how to begin describing how bad this piece of crap is.

Hi GH

Coyote

Howdy back.

Date: 2008/05/13 18:10:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I watched it in the first showing.  There were 7 people there in all.  Two women sitting together, and the rest of us well separtated.  The two women, and one solo one occassionally laughed when Stein made fun of PZ or Dawkins.  As the film progressed, the elderly woman sitting alone became more and more vocal.  She ended up saying "Liar, Liar, Liar" every time PZ or Dawkins appeared on the screen.  Except that is when Dawkins claimed that evolutionary studies lead to atheism and that he, unlike other scientists, was honest about that fact.  Then the little old lady nearly shouted, "I knew it!"

Way to score Richard.  I think the phrase is "Own score!"

Date: 2008/05/14 01:51:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I understand that Dawkins has an avid fan base- one might say a cult following.  I think first of all that it is incompetent to assert that science can provide evidence that gods don't exist. I do not think that any do exist, but that is not a scientific conclusion. Further, Dawkin's assertion that he is more honest than other scientists is both insulting and wrong.  Finally, there are many, many thousands of scientists who are active in some faith or other, which makes Dawkins simply wrong.

If you don't care about what anyone thinks, why bother to reply to creationist bullshit in the first place?  As you have said, "Who gives a toss whether Dawkins scored with the biddies in that audience?"  

Why do you bother?



Date: 2008/05/14 14:39:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

The postman just delivered my very own copy of Explore Evolution streight from the Discovery Institute offices, postmarked May 8th. I tremble with antisipation.

Thank you, Paul.  As I promised, I'll do my best.

Gary

Date: 2008/05/14 18:10:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 14 2008,12:51)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,15:39)
Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

Ugh.  It's gone viral.

:D

Opps. That should read, "Quick, gimme a feather to knock  over me with!

All better.

Date: 2008/05/14 18:16:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ May 14 2008,15:54)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 14 2008,13:59)
Looks like Waterloo has been postponed.  Again.

Dammit. So I bought all those canned goods and guns for nothing. :angry:

OT

For the last 20 years or so, when I encounter some nitwit "survivalist" with guns and canned goods, I ask them how large their goat herd is, and how will they deal with the hybrid instability of Golden Bantam?

(Trick question about corn, I know.  But it takes 3 years and a couple of acres to get the joke).

Date: 2008/05/15 16:30:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH


Today's shot of a Mourning Cloak laying eggs

Date: 2008/05/15 16:37:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks for the link.

Date: 2008/05/15 16:42:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The varying chemistry of tears is relevant to this question.  Tears of anger, pain, fear, and joy have different chemistries.  The brain is leaking when overwhelmed with transmitters and neuroactive peptides.

Date: 2008/05/15 19:18:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (khan @ May 15 2008,16:40)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,19:16)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ May 14 2008,15:54)
 
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ May 14 2008,13:59)
Looks like Waterloo has been postponed.  Again.

Dammit. So I bought all those canned goods and guns for nothing. :angry:

OT

For the last 20 years or so, when I encounter some nitwit "survivalist" with guns and canned goods, I ask them how large their goat herd is, and how will they deal with the hybrid instability of Golden Bantam?

(Trick question about corn, I know.  But it takes 3 years and a couple of acres to get the joke).

I was involved in circumventing the Y2K meltdown (via programming drudgery), and observed many of the apocalyptic websites.

Observations thereof:

Only white male heterosexual protestants need apply
Guns and God and Gold are all that is needed to triumph
Abysmal knowledge of actual skills needed to survive without infrastructure
Manly men can handle draft animals without training
Questions about gardening: "Carrots and onions don't produce seeds"

Nearly all the survivalists I have ever met would be dead within months, if not weeks or day, if they were left on their own.

I was buying supplies for a 10 person 10 day field work project in the Colorado Desert in Dec. 1999.  We had lots of food and water, (hardware, like tents, pots and pans had been bought in earlier projects).  As we checked out, there were dozens of people who assumed we were antisipating the end of the world.

Date: 2008/05/17 15:26:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This week;

Caldwell, Billy R.
2005 "Geology in the Bible" Burgess Hill, UK: Meadow Books

Froede, Carl R.
2005 "Geology by Design: Interpreting Rocks and Their Catastrophic Record" Green Forest: Master Books

Sailhamer, John H.
1998 "Old Testament History" (Grand Rapids: Zondervan)

Sailhamer, John H.
1998 "Biblical Archaeology" (Grand Rapids: Zondervan)

Wilson, Robert Dick
1919 "A Scientific Investigation of the Old Testament" Philadelphia: The Sunday School Times (1996 reprint)

All but the last are complete and utter garbage. Wilson's book is merely obsolete, but not dishonest.

My review copy of the Intelligent Design "high school textbook" has finally arrived from the Discovery Institute (Thanks to Paul Nelson)

Date: 2008/05/18 01:13:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (carlsonjok @ May 17 2008,14:17)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ May 17 2008,13:35)
Yeah, Lebo's book is on the desk, awaiting the time when I will have some free hours to read it. Glad to hear that it is a good read.

All I can say is to make sure you have enough time set aside to read it straight through.

I also had to read Lebo's book straight through. Two days later I read Gordy Slack's book on Dover, "The Battle Over the Meaning of Everything."

The timing was not good for Gordy.  His only unique observations were made as casual asides about some of the other reporters he met at the trial.  His attempted personalizations were weak compared to Lebo.  His grasp of the pro-creationist arguments were weak compared to Edward Humes, (2007  “Monkey Girl” New York: Harper Collins), and his humor was weak compared to Matthew Chapman, (2007 “40 Days and 40 Nights” New York: Harper Collins).

The book I really wish would get written now on the Dover trial is the one by Mike Argento.  Why he hasn't done it is a mystery.

Date: 2008/05/20 07:36:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I noticed this in Nelson's abstract, "The inherently contrastive nature of historical explanation in biology entails that postulates about the character or goals of possible intelligent causes are very likely unavoidable."

This is an interesting contradiction of the ID party line.

Date: 2008/05/20 22:05:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Peter Henderson @ April 15 2008,16:14)
The interviewer was William Crawley and Ham didn't come out of that one well at all. Crawley was excellent. You can still listen to it at the bottom of the page on Ham's Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Ham

What amazes me still is not only are creationists like Ham grossly ignorant about science and the physical evidence right in front of their eyes, but they are equally ignorant of the Bible, and the other ancient near east ritual literatures.

I listened to about 8 minutes of the BBC interview and counted nearly a dozen flat out falsehoods Ham said about either the Bible, or other ANE texts.  (This is why I have spent most of the last 3 years reading theology and biblical linguistics). (And going fishing).

Date: 2008/05/20 22:39:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ May 19 2008,18:17)
I'm just waiting for GH to calm down enough to write about Explore Evolution. He's been reading it for several days now, so presumably his blood pressure is in the 300/150 range.

I do have some money jobs still.  (OK, I have been fishing.  The season has really gone off!  A week ago Sunday I caught the 2nd and 3rd and 4th largest bonito that I have ever caught in my life.  And I lost the big fish of the day right at the gaff.  

This Sunday the kelp bass were very active just out of the harbor mouth (that would be ~ one mile from my door).  Monday I spent fishing off shore at Catalina Island.  Excellent!

Today I worked on the truck (1985 Toyota PU).  I'll be buried in it (Well not really, maybe they could drive my carcass to the medical school lab with it).  I have read bits of EE.  So far it is crap.  I am thankful that Paul had the DI send me a copy, but I did promise him I would do my best to refute it.

I have also been writing reviews of creationst books at Amazon.com.

It might not even take my best.  The bullshit started on page "v."

Date: 2008/05/20 22:48:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Glenn Branch @ May 19 2008,22:59)
My review of the book in question, for what it's worth.

Howdy Glenn, You can write good "to the point," AKA short, book reviews, a talent I lack, but I am working on it.

Date: 2008/05/20 23:10:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I needed a very easy chili con carne to feed lots of people from mostly canned food.  I came up with;

Canned pinto beans (about 1.5 cups per person)
Drain 50% of the canning liquid and replace with chicken stock

1/8 large yellow onion per person (small diced)

1/4 cup corn kernels per person (drained if canned)

1/4 Lb ground meat (I pre-cooked for field work 4 days in advance, and I froze bags of cooked turkey meatballs good for 1 week in the field site coolers)

a lot of bottled salsa (green for ground turkey (our favorite) or red for beef, or pork)

ground cumin, granulated garlic, salt and black pepper

Serve with fresh chopped onion, tomato, cilantro, garlic and a bottle of pepper sauce (Tapa Tio is our current favorite).

If calories are not an issue, eat with corn bread and beer (add a bottle of beer to the chilli too).

Date: 2008/05/21 00:08:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Welcome to my world:

Just in case anyone forgets, this is the result of letting the Taliban fundamentalists win;




My comments were, "Note the lateralization of bone wasting typical of secondary predators such as canines.  The disarticulation and removal of limbs begins at the scapula, removing the forelimbs, and then the tibia/fibula.  This is followed by the the disarticulation of the femur.  The pelvis of this individual is nearly consumed, so the ulna+radius? placed on top of the uniform/clothing is not a probable primary association.

Date: 2008/05/21 00:14:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH


There were lots more.  The bodies were disturbed by explosives detonated by starving village dogs trying to eat the carcasses.

Date: 2008/05/21 00:21:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote=J-Dog,May 20 2008,09:17]  
Quote (Glen Davidson @ May 19 2008,20:48)
... they think Darwinism is supposed to explain all the same things as Christianity. And of course, since Christianity can be pressed into service to explain anything, they think they've scored a great rhetorical coup when they point out that Darwinism doesn't explain everything.

I am soooo going to rip this off.

(With full citation of course)  Glenn Davidson, ATBC May 20, 2008 "Expelled: No Intelligence allowed"



Date: 2008/05/21 00:28:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Did I mention that the fundamentalists can not be allowed to win?

Date: 2008/05/21 00:47:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
What (the creato creep will ask) is the difference between the Taliban victim's that Gary claims are caused by "fundamentalism" and the millions murdered by Hitler?

I am glad you asked creationist dick-wad.

My next book chapter is about the Nazi+Darwin lie promoted by creationists.  First, if Nazism is the inevitable outcome of evolutionary theory as fundamentalist creationists claim, then we are truly and thoroughly screwed,  This is because evolution is true regardless of the consequences.  Gravity is true in the same way- gravity has as an unavoidable outcome that people can drop heavy rocks onto other people.  The atomic theory allows for nuclear weapons.  The germ theory allowed gern weapons.  The atomic theory allowed TNT, and mustard gas.

Second, (lucky for fundamentalists) the Holocaust was not the result of evolutionary theory being correct.  The fact is that the Nazis had the books of Darwin and his major German fan, Haeckel burned!  

http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279  
Die Bucherei, the official Nazi journal for lending libraries, published these collection evaluation "guidelines" during the second round of "purifications" (saüberung).  

6. Schriften weltanschaulichen und lebenskundlichen Charakters, deren Inhalt die falsche naturwissenschaftliche Aufklärung eines primitiven Darwinismus und Monismus ist (Häckel).    

Guidelines from Die Bücherei 2:6 (1935), p. 279

6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel)

What was outstanding and uniquely German was the domination of the racist Nordic movement by medical doctors.  This had several important consequences, one being the prominance given to inherited disease and secondly the willingness to take direct "curative action" as a public health program.  Leading figures of the Nordic movement wrote for the Politisch-anthropologish Revue edited by Ludwig Wolttmaann, M.D. ( e.g. Rüdin, Lentz, Fisher and Schallmayer).   The right wing of the racial hygiene movement, the Nordic supremacists, that ultimately became the Nazi medical establishment was virtually the creation of medical publisher Julius Friedrich Lehmann.  Lehmann joint the Nazi party in 1920, and was the first Nazi to recieve the party's "Golden Medal of Honor" in 1934.  Actually, by 1930 it was nearly impossible to distinguish between the Nordic/Nazi and the transformed Rassenhygiene movements.  At that time, some people still attempted to separate what they viewed as the medical and scientific study of human genetics from the Nazi dominated Rassenhygiene, but within Germany they were suppressed.  



However, there is a hightly significant passage in Evans pg. 92-93:

Quote
"The minutes [taken by Dr. Paul Otto Schmidt] for the second day's meeting, on 17 April 1943, recorded a statement by Reich Foreign Minister Ribbentrop, in Hitler's presence, to a point made by Hungarian Admiral Horthy: "On Horthy's retort, what should he do with the Jews then, after he had pretty well taken all means of living from them-- he surely couldn't beat them to death-- the Reich Foreign Minister [Ribbentrop] replied that the Jews must either be annihilated or taken to concentration camps. There is no other way."

Hitler almost immediately confirmed Ribbentrop's explicitly murderous statement at some length: Hitler: "Where the Jews were left to themselves, as for example in Poland, gruesome poverty and degeneracy had ruled. They were just pure parasites. One had fundamentally cleared up this state of affairs in Poland. If the Jews there didn't want to work [in Third Reich concentration camps], they were shot. If they couldn't work they had to perish. They had to be treated like tuberculosis bacilli, from which a healthy body could be infected. That was not cruel, if one remembered that even innocent natural creatures like hares and deer had to be killed so that no harm was caused. Why should one spare the beasts who wanted to bring us Bolshevism more? Nations who did not rid themselves of Jews perished." (references and footnotes are found in Evans, 2001:92-93)


Here we have Hitler, in his argument to Hungary's Admiral Horthy, invoking not an übermench racist position, but an anti-Bolshevik, and nationalist one.  His analogy is to disease and there is no argument based on the notion of evolution.  Hitler never tried to draw rhetorical support from Social Darwinism arguing in Mein Kampf, it is not present in the text.  Science in any event was at most merely a twig on the trunk of his anti-Semitism. His opposition is to what he considered a Marxist threat, not drawn from Darwin, which was more a rationalization of his hatred than its origin.  

The Nazi Office of Racial Policy held thousands of public meetings a month promoting anti-semitism and attacking “muddle-headed humanitarianism” (Humanitätsduselei)  or, what we call “liberalism” today.  The theoretical models and dominant metaphors Hitler drew from did not include evolution at any event, but the Germ Theory of Disease, and Christianity.  In 1938 the Nazi "Office of Racial Policy" publication Inromationsdienst Martin Luther’s advice on the “proper” treatment of Jews was given prominent display:

Quote
... to put their synagogues and schools to fire, and what will not burn, to cover with earth and rubble so that no-one will ever again see anything there but cinders ... Second, one should tear down and destroy their houses, for they do also in there what they do in their schools and synagogues ... And third, one should confiscate their prayer books and Talmud, in which idolatry and lies, slander and blasphemy is taught” From Proctor 1988: 88.


The founder of Protestant Christianity was a greater inspiration to the Nazis than any scientist.  Science, politicized by the same conditions that radicalized both Left, and Right in Germany, was used as justification for actions long advocated as “Christian.”  

Evans, Richard J.
2001 Lying about Hitler New York:Basic Books.

Hitler, Adolf
1999 (orig. 1925) Mien Kampf  Ralph Manheim, translator.  New York: Houghton
Mifflin Co.

Proctor, Robert N.
1988 Racial Hygiene: Medicine Under the Nazis Boston:Harvard University Press.

Date: 2008/05/21 00:58:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote=Arden Chatfield,May 20 2008,22:37]
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 20 2008,22:21)
 
Quote (J-Dog @ May 20 2008,09:17)
     
Quote (Glen Davidson @ May 19 2008,20:48)
... they think Darwinism is supposed to explain all the same things as Christianity. And of course, since Christianity can be pressed into service to explain anything, they think they've scored a great rhetorical coup when they point out that Darwinism doesn't explain everything.

I am soooo going to rip this off.

(With full citation of course)  Glenn Davidson, ATBC May 20, 2008 "Expelled: No Intelligence allowed"

Actually, *I* wrote that. See the top post on this page.

opps.  Got it.

I'll use it!  Get used to it.

Bwahahahhhahhahaha

Date: 2008/05/21 11:51:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Doc Bill @ May 21 2008,06:57)
I thought the bullshit started with the title.

D'oh!

Date: 2008/05/21 21:49:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Annyday @ May 21 2008,13:17)
It's sad that the Isaac Newton of information theory and paradigm-shifter for molecular biology can't surpass the social sciences in precision. Given the fairly high mathematical standards of biologists, I foresee a long, dark road ahead of those taking such a soft approach.

Biology has been all a twitter the last 5 or so years about "networks."  Network analysis was begun by an anthropologist, Jay Barns in the 1950s.  The application of graph theory to network analysis was pioneered by social scientists in the 1970s. I still occasionally get requests for a copy of one of my 1983 conference   papers "An Application of Graph Centrality to Psychiatric Diagnosis." The numerical taxonomy of the early '70s was using programs developed by psychologists (See Sneath and Sokal).  The idea that biologists have greater math skills than the social scientists is bullshit.

Date: 2008/05/22 10:12:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (N.Wells @ May 22 2008,07:02)
It occurs to me that O'Leary is in some ways almost the exact opposite of Davison in the blogosphere.  Davison makes one blog that just grows and grows without subdividing or branching until it dies of bloat, while O'Leary keeps ferociously spinning off progeny until we have an infinity of infinitely insignificant entities.  Both are like failed e-universes, in that both are sterile wastelands that have given rise to nothing useful, which nobody wants to visit, and where nothing interesting ever happens.

That is almost poetic.

Date: 2008/05/25 18:07:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
There is an evolutionary version of the many worlds idea; It should be possible to spawn universes on purpose by manipulating quantum events (don't ask me how).  But the manipulation requires intelligence- ergo universes with an intelligence (or a few billions) are more often spawned.  So, it is more probable to find a "fine tuned" universe even if randomly selecting a universe. (Aside for the fact that we would not be here in an "untuned" universe, and that we are arguing from an N of 1).

Date: 2008/05/29 12:29:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (DiEb @ May 29 2008,09:39)
Upps, I didn't activate my account - though I thought so. My bad :(  So, I tried in vain to post for a couple of days - gave me a kind of UD feeling, self-induced :)

As Old Man in the Sky did it predicted, I was silently banned from UD after my last post, which can be read here.
(Thanks for keeping it!)
So, Sal now gets his favorite kind of discussion: one without an opponent :)

I should never be suprised at the low standards of honesty held by creationsits- but I am.

Date: 2008/05/29 17:05:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 28 2008,20:30)
Please, take a moment to read Russ' lifelong, tear-jerking battle with "TEH GAY":

http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....-289692

This thread, this TARD, MINE, all MINE!

Well, lemme see- I choose every day not to try and kill all the evil stupid in the world. My reasons are more sane than Russ has offered.  

Killing assholes for being evil stupid assholes (mostly low bureaucrats, and their ilk) is like kicking shit: It just spreads it around. The smart evil assholes seem beyond reach.

Instead, I try to reason with them (a priori a futile effort).  They have no similar restraint, and use gunmen (with nice uniforms and taxpayer supplied guns) for enforcement.  This is why the fundamentalists cannot be alowed to win. I don't how.

Date: 2008/05/30 11:26:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ May 30 2008,08:11)
What I see is that Lee Bowman advanced the usual antievolution argument from improbability, Allen MacNeill asked him to show his work, RU brought up how that sort of question regularly got axed by Hannah Maxson back on the Cornell IDC course blog without any intervention by MacNeill, MacNeill went on the attack with a character assault on RU, and there we have the basis for the comment by RU that now graces the BW.

And inappropriately, MacNeill's comments remain on PT.  I am glad to be out of that mess.

Date: 2008/05/30 16:02:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ May 30 2008,10:04)
I've noted my disagreement with Pim directly, and I'll note it publicly here. If RU's response to MacNeill deserved a move to the BW, consistency would indicate that MacNeill's hyperbolic comment dwelling on character issues aimed at RU certainly should accompany it.

It is, though, Pim's thread. PT is a group blog, and we don't all think alike on everything. Diversity of opinion is not itself a problem.

I just to another look, and Pim should just close the comments- nobody seems to care about the OP topic at all.

Date: 2008/05/30 16:14:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (keiths @ May 30 2008,13:59)
Denyse tries to come to grips with the demise of the ISCID:
     
Quote
Thursday, May 29, 2008
ID organizations to watch - or not

Some people have wondered why there is so little activity at ID think tank ISCID these days.

One thing I have noticed about the intelligent design community is that - because it operates largely without funds - when the creativity and energy go out of a given project, it starts to obviously decline.

Contrast that, if you like, with an institutional structure where a government-funded paper mill that outlived its mandate fifty years ago can bumble along indefinitely at taxpayer expense, with 50 employees making work for themselves.

Darwinists, the two ID organizations to hate and obsess about at this point are said to be Biologic Institute and Evolutionary Informatics Lab, both of which are research programs.

Of course, someone may well come along and kickstart ISCID again, but my sense is that people are tired of just talking and are more into doing things now.    [emphasis mine]

Because, as everyone knows, you can't publish and do research at the same time.

Do'L can't walk and chew gum.

Date: 2008/06/02 20:49:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ June 02 2008,14:49)
Now, wait a minute, wait a minute. Do you agree that Expelled started out asking "if John Lennon was right and concluding that he was wrong"? I thought this was a film about evolution and asking if Charles Darwin was right.

The description of this film is morphing all the time, chasing whatever publicity it gets.

It reminds me of the Cheney-Bush justifications for invading Iraq- all bullshit all the time.

Date: 2008/06/03 16:35:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 03 2008,08:24)
A bit OT but some great research being reported on by Ed Brayton:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....hp#more

My take



But get the best article by Carl Zimmer.

Date: 2008/06/05 12:43:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (fusilier @ June 05 2008,06:26)
I'm not Dr. GH, and I don't play him on TV -but I have started to read the book.

I made the mistake of starting at the beginning.

Date: 2008/06/05 13:33:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
When I was still in medicine, we in psychiatry generally held that transgender surgery was the result of taking a psychiatric problem to a cutter.  All surgeons seem to have the notion that all ills can be cured with a knife.

Of course, we saw the now desperately unhappy post-operative male or (ususally) female.  They were desperately unhappy before, and they were desperately unhappy later.

I once knew a male homosexual couple socially.  One really wanted gender reassignment, and they both thought that that would make them "Normal." The post-operative "Norma" was no longer sexually attractive to her former partner- he wanted sex with men. At least Norma was happy with her new body- one of the few post-operative successes I ever encountered.

Date: 2008/06/05 19:46:57, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Demwitski money quotes :
Quote
Frank: As one philosopher to another, explain how ID is wedded to a nominalist and empiricist epistemology. I have some sophistication here. I’ve argued in my books that ID proponents can be realists or antirealists about science.


Translated: "HaHaHa- I don' believe in nothing so yous cant pin me down. I haz sofisticated"

Quote
The only thing ID is committed to is the inadequacy of evolutionary mechanisms as conceived in Enlightenment terms (thus mounting a fundamental critique of Enlightenment assumptions) and the detectability of design in nature."


And just how do you detect design? By material criteria. Only that.

Gotta love this;

Quote
Frank, you are sounding like a company man who, in joining the new company (RCC), is forgetting your roots. I expect your newfound RCC friends have a lot of negative things to say about ID. To what extent have they swayed you?


Yep, I gotta agree with Dr.Dr. Dumshit.  Frank has seen the light, got tenured, and jumped ship. That life-time job security sure has a way of adding lead to the ol' penis.

Date: 2008/06/07 09:54:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I snaped this yesterday just before some crows made him fly off with his prize.

Date: 2008/06/07 11:51:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 07 2008,09:39)
Quote (keiths @ June 07 2008,11:08)
There's a new post at Evolution News & Views entitled None Dare Call It Journalism.

Surprisingly, it's not about Denyse.

Nice. That should make a good thing to send folks who argue that the DI is a source of serious commentary.

I have noticed for a few weeks that the DI's Evolution News & Views has had an enriched tard flow.  A recent solid lump was Casey Luskin's whine about Barbara Forrest.

Date: 2008/06/11 11:18:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 10 2008,21:17)
Quote
The role of historical contingency in evolution has been much debated, but rarely tested. Twelve initially identical populations of Escherichia coli were founded in 1988 to investigate this issue. They have since evolved in a glucose-limited medium that also contains citrate, which E. coli cannot use as a carbon source under oxic conditions. No population evolved the capacity to exploit citrate for >30,000 generations, although each population tested billions of mutations. A citrate-using (Cit(+)) variant finally evolved in one population by 31,500 generations, causing an increase in population size and diversity.


"But E. coli are microscopic. Real tiny-like. So this is obviously just microevolution. Tiny evolution. This isn't macroevolution 'cuz macro is 'big' and E.coli are tiny. So Darwin is proven wrong again. USA! USA! USA!"

PoTW PoTW!!!1

Date: 2008/06/12 11:32:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (k.e.. @ June 11 2008,22:44)
... from the Tard Mine    
Quote
DaveScot 03/26/2007
It just ocurred to me that according to Ernst Mayr I must be a different species from Inuits. We’re reproductively isolated by geography and there isn’t a snowball’s chance in south central Texas I’d be attracted to an Inuit woman anyhow even though we’re probably still physically compatible on a hypothetical basis sort of like brown bears and polar bears.

"What is a Species, and What is Not?" ERNST MAYR
Quote
The so-called ecological species concept, based on the niche occupation of a species, is for two reasons not workable. In almost all more widespread species there are local populations which differ in their niche occupation. An ecological species definition would require that these populations be called different species even though, on the basis of all other criteria, it is obvious that they are not. More fatal for the ecological species concept are the trophic species of cichlids (A. Meyer 1990) which differentiate within a single set of offspring from the same parents. Finally, there are the numerous cases (but none exhaustively analyzed) where two sympatric species seem to occupy the same niche, in conflict with Gause's rule. All this evidence shows not only how many difficulties an ecological species concept faces but also how unable it is to answer the Darwinian why? question for the existence of species.

Perhaps Templeton's (1989, 1994) cohesion species concept should be mentioned here. It attempts to combine the best components of several other species concepts but fails to escape the resulting conflicts. It emphasizes the presence of gene flow, but fails to distinguish between the internal (isolating mechanisms) and external (geographic isolation) barriers to gene flow; it stresses cohesion through gene flow, but claims also to be "applicable to taxa reproducing asexually," which have no gene flow. It attempts to characterize an evolutionary lineage, but does not indicate how to delimit such an open ended lineage at either end: and he does not state how to deal with the geographic variation of demographic-ecological attributes in widespread polytypic species. I do not see any advantages of this concept over the BSC.




Date: 2008/06/13 13:28:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ June 12 2008,16:45)
UD vs gravity, in a nutshell

Rarely has a youtube clip felt so appropriate.

The guy is lucky he wasn't using his head. His foot was gone

Date: 2008/06/13 13:33:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ June 13 2008,10:19)
WAD:
 
Quote
Theistic Evolutionists Close Ranks — Let the Bloodletting Begin!
William Dembski

WIKI:
 
Quote
Bloodletting was a tremendously popular medical practice from antiquity up to the late 19th century, a time span of almost 2,000 years. Bloodletting involves the withdrawal of often considerable quantities of blood from a patient in the hopeful belief that this would cure or prevent a great many illnesses and diseases. The practice, of unproven efficacy, has been abandoned for all except a few very specific conditions

Weird. Ok. "Let the bloodletting begin." Whatever you say, Bill.

I knew a fellow who was shot several times in his (very large) gut. When he looked down and saw all the blood, he had a heart attack. Because his heart wasn't doing much, he didn't bleed to death on the way to the hospital.

The shooting was the combination of mistaken identity, and a poor choice in friends.

Date: 2008/06/13 16:21:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
He would spread shit on bread and call it a sandwich.

Date: 2008/06/14 01:55:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So I am fairly plastered drinking my birthday bottle of Macallan. Not the bottle of "The Macallan Elelgancia" my dear wife brought me last year from London, but a bottle that was "The Macallan 12 Year Single Malt Scotch Whisky." I even have some left to prove it.

I was watching a neighbor work with his boxing coach- while having a bite of The Macallan. I was reminded of an odd experience: I had an unarmed-killing teacher who brought to class a boxer. Teacher told us to try and hurt him (the visitor). He easily blocked the standard kicks, and punched our lights out up close.

This began a 6 week instruction in boxing.

Well I might as well add that the first written rule in Greco-roman fighting was "No pocking out of eyes."

This was the occasion of the first (nonleathal) retirement from greco-roman fighting.

Pussies

Oh, This is really about The Macallan, not about killing people.

Really.

In fact, I am celebrating surviving for 57 years. I have the all time male record for my lineage. I have survived more years than my father, and my grandfathers, and my great-grandfathers. Beyond them is speculation.

As a philosophical and Quaker pacifist who finds himself in occasional deadly confrontations, I welcome the chance to live a bit further. (And have a bit of Whisky).



Date: 2008/06/14 02:47:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was not a very good Quaker- not the booze- when the elders more or less gave me the boot it was three issues; tobacco, swearing, and (their totally mistaken notion that) I took drugs. I do take beer, wine and whisky today, but at 18 I had never indulged in even those.

No, in the late 1960s we had tired of life under the threat of instant death. It has not changed much yet. This feeds the "Armageddon" fantasy. Larrdy lardy I had it (but recovered).

Date: 2008/06/14 13:54:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks. I have just a slight hangover.

Date: 2008/06/14 14:03:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (olegt @ June 14 2008,05:14)
Quote
[Sean McDowell] is the head of the Bible Department at Capistrano Valley Christian Schools, where he teaches courses on apologetics and Bible. He graduated summa cum laude from Talbot Theological Seminary with a double Master’s degree in Theology and Philosophy.

I live in Dana Point- the same town as Capistrano Valley Christian Schools.

Date: 2008/06/15 15:38:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ June 14 2008,03:59)
Further, it's good to see Stones and Bones more active.

Howdy Lou,

I have been writing all sorts of Evo/creato mainly directed to newspaper story comment boards, letters to editor pages, etc.

I am trying to not just write posts to BBs. I have not been copying these to my blog, but I thought I might as well.

Date: 2008/06/16 15:25:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (k.e.. @ June 16 2008,08:40)
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 16 2008,18:11)
Oh dear.  Dave must have had a bad weekend.

Perhaps we should have a group hug, to make him feel better.

TAKE YOUR GROUP HUG AND SHOVE IT LADYMAN-GIRLYBOY.

WHEN I SAY YOU SHOULD READ THE BOOK BEFORE SPOUTING OFF I AM ASSUMING NOBODY READS BECAUSE ID'ONT.

I AM AN AUTO-DIKTAK AND I KNOW EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN ALREADY.

I once met a man who said he could auto dik take, but I avoided the clinical issues and was able to move away quietly.

Date: 2008/06/16 15:30:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, my copy of "Only a Theory" just arrived.

EE will need to wait a few hours more.

Date: 2008/06/16 21:00:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wrote this the other day at Stones and Bones about the DI "Academic Freebom Bill" passed in La.

We all know that this is a bill to be used to inject creationism into science curriculum and to return religious fundamentalism to top place in Louisiana schools. We know this because the act itself denies this in section D. It is also obvious because the fundamentalists and creationists who all love the bill are in a loud chorus denying that they are drooling over this religious victory.

There has been an equal outpouring of angst and outrage from secularists, most notably The Louisiana Coalition for Science, and the National Center for Science Education. But, I think they have missed a critical issue- this return of fundamentalism and ignorance is a much needed economic stimulus for a chronically underemployed region.

This Act when implemented will allow Louisiana teachers to finally stop teaching- even halfheartedly- that humans truly and scientifically are all one family- that's commieism. The economic gains from racism are astounding! This alone would kill any sort of unionism. Why that was the whole point of the War Between the States. With a scientifically illiterate public there would be no support for such nonsense as environmental laws. Without a labor movement, and those pesky treehuggers out of the way, the business opportunities for Louisiana are wide open!

Let’s face it, there are some dirty, deadly jobs that need doing. Sure, there are safe alternatives, and remediation measures. But they cost money, and that cuts profits. Only Satan cuts profits! These much needed dirty jobs will make the rich richer, and the poor dead. Its not like the bankers will actually have to live there.

Date: 2008/06/17 01:57:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Since you are all so much more witty than I am, I will merely enjoy a Jerez Sherry.  Maybe several. Oh My. The bottle is empty. Damn, so is my glass.

I made a very good dinner, but I will not describe it totally. It was a frittata. The secret of my brilliant light frittata I will reveal.  It begins with bringing the eggs to room temperature first. But that is not revealing anything because you all know that already.

But, did you know to use a clotted cream, or as I must in this benighted land, a chemically ‘soured’ cream, results in the most productive of mixtures?

Of course you did not. Whip this into the eggs merrily. And, rather than a traditional and tiresome grating of cheese, a sliced commercial variety does just as well under a hot fire. For the tiresome traditionalist, a grated cheese say of Jarlsberg, or Mozzarella, scattered over the top of the skillet mix just before putting it under the broiler, will be fine.

Date: 2008/06/17 16:25:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I don't understand why DoL only gets 8 hits rather than the ~60k on a google search. What's the filter?

Date: 2008/06/18 22:42:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Looking at the UD creationists through new eyes, Firefox 3 to be exact, I can confidently say that IDC still sucks.

Date: 2008/06/19 12:00:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, Dr.Dr. did manage to interest me in buying a new book, the one by Giberson.

Date: 2008/06/19 16:16:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 19 2008,11:27)
I get the impression Beckwith has, um, seen the light over WmAD.  He had a review recently, I think of Numbers' book on creationism, where he goes out of his way to correct the account of Dembski's doings over the Polyani Center.  The book had said something fairly neutral, like "there was a dispute".  Beckwith corrected this to (to paraphrase) Dembski behaved like an ass.

I think Beckwith is on the side of Common Sense, and his comments at UD are always worth reading.

Here is the link that might save others a bit of time;

http://homepage.mac.com/francis.beckwith/Creationists.pdf

Date: 2008/06/20 18:43:39, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I just came of a fishing boat. Slow day. There was a fellow next to me who had a lure he had never used. I gave him som coaching and he caught a 12lb halibut. I had two good fish on, but lost them both. I ended up with just 2 bass ~2 lbs each.

Monday will be better.

Date: 2008/06/20 19:04:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 20 2008,11:08)
Did I hear someone that someone had suggested research projects for ID, and that funding was denied? What were those projects and what hypotheses were they testing?

I would bet a 12 years old bottle of The Macallan aginst any ID lick shit ever posting their PDF of a NSF, or NIH grant proposal and the negative reviews.

Date: 2008/06/21 21:53:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Wes, I cannot see the least chance that Jindal- a far-right Republican- will be at all influenced by anything we can do.

Even the Louisiana Democrats overwhelmingly support ignorant superstition over reason.

This is the SCOUS window, although I would rather it heard in some other Circuit. But maybe even this is a good deal becasue a stupid judgment is easier to overturn.  But if it is too stupid, then the important issues will be lost in the bonfire.

OOHH I do not know!

Date: 2008/06/22 08:36:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 22 2008,03:48)
Quote

HERE’S MY EMAIL:

Please support the recent academic freedom legislation allowing evidence for and AGAINST evolution to be taught. No scientific theory is so good that it only has strengths, nor does it help students to be given the impression that evolution is a slam-dunk when the theory has lots and lots of holes. The materialism that supports evolution is as ideological as any religious dogma that resists it. –WmAD

Dembski is slipping. He acknowledged that his oppostion to materialism is religious.

We all knew that, but he usually lies about it.

Date: 2008/06/22 21:14:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 22 2008,10:46)
PS. DARWIN MADE HITLER DO IT.

Come on! You would have to be a lying sack of shit to say something thing that, let alone post it on the internet.  I cannot imagine the sort of putz that would publish it, or make a movie with that crap.

Well, the Disco boys, Ben Stein, and Kevie.  

Hey, there were two lesbians who tortured a five year-old to death just last week.

The ID fucks will probably do a movie about how that was scientists' fault because we are all about killing and murder.

Kevie, I wish you had the honesty to stop using OUR medicine because WE don't need you.

But, leech that you are, you will take advantage of OUR food, and OUR medicine.

Date: 2008/06/22 21:19:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The right-wing are very big about "taking responsibility." Unless it is their fuck-up. Then it is somebody else that should take the hit.

Date: 2008/06/25 15:17:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This is great fun.  Many of the conservitives of conservapedia are truly insane.

Date: 2008/06/25 15:35:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
I intended peer review in general, not just at the PNAS, but that's a fair comparison. Like Murray, I would have thought that a fortnight is sufficient, but you do appear to be correct that the Lenski paper was much quicker than normal at the PNAS. So that just leaves the question of broken policies... Philip J. Rayment 12:24, 20 June 2008 (EDT)


These idiots are speculating about the short review time for the Lenski et al paper in PNAS. This was Lienski's inaugural paper following his election to the National Academy. One expects an expedited review and publication.

Date: 2008/06/25 22:53:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I find it truly delightful that conservatives are exposed as total asshats. Paranoid, ignorant asshats.

Hiphip asshat! Hurray!

Date: 2008/06/25 23:28:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I had enrolled in a summer ceramics class.  I taught ceramics for many years. The first school classes I taught were middle school science for Spanish speakers, in 1971. Then the school added us to the "mentally gifted" classes, after the "retarded" Hispanics started to excel. I next taught high school science in 1972, specifically tenth grade "life science."

But, in my last year in high school I took ceramics. 1971 was the year I flunked sophomore orgainic chemistry at UCI. And starting in 1971, I taught pottery to UC Irvine students. 1971 was the year I built my first kiln.

These pottery associated activities, and flunking organic (well, really a "D" in the second session) were directly associated with my doctorate in 1976. I really liked science (just not organic chem), I really liked pottery. The ceramics program at UCI was dominated by a "minimalist" principal, Dept. Head, John Mason.

In a tale for another day, I incorrectly though that I could not study with John Mason. (I think that I was better off in science, but around 1973 I did become one of Jhon Mason's students).

So, I became an anthropologist who specialized in the study of ceramic technologies. Dissertation ensued following five years in the pottery making villages of Yucatan, Mexico. (And learning Spanish, and Yucateco Mayan).

I have had various ceramic projects in mind for over 30 years. So, I tried to sit through the first few days of a Community College ceramics class. It did not help that this was a school that fired me the same year I was named "Professor of the Year," and the Board of Trustees awarded me a "Certificate of Meritorious Service."

My pottery class teacher is a nitwit. I am better qualified to teach this class than he is.  I was told directly that independent projects were not allowed, so I can neither execute the projects I want to see done, nor avoid the obstructive piffle from the "teacher."

I quit today, day 2.



Date: 2008/06/25 23:48:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Hey Dr. Plausible- Wes said that I didn't bother to carefully read your probability of abiogenesis post. He was correct. So, rather than "sick it in your ass:" you can pull it out, if you really want to that is.

The growing interest in the search for extra-terrestrial life as fueled more productive research on OOL in the last 15 years than has ever been done in all history. "The Emergence of Life on Earth: A Historical and Scientific Overview" by Iris Fry, (2000 Rutgers University Press), is the best general reader book available on the topic. Even though it is only 8 years old, a second edition is warrented to bring her presentation up to date.

There are quite a list of specifics that go into origin of life research, and very few research groups go far with more than a few. Just to list the key areas as I see them:

1) Composition of the Hadean/early Archean atmosphere.

The key reference(s) here is:

Feng Tian, Owen B. Toon, Alexander A. Pavlov, and H. De Sterck
2005  "Hydrogen-Rich Early Earth Atmosphere"  Science 13 May 2005; 308: 1014-1017; published online 7 April

Genda, Hidenori & Abe, Yutaka
2003 “Survival of a proto-atmosphere through the stage of giant impacts: the mechanical aspects” Icarus 164, 149-162 (2003).

Holland, Heinrich D.
1984 The Chemical Evolution of the Atmoshphere and Oceans, Princeton Series in Geochemistry Princeton University Press

Holland, Heinrich D.
1999 “When did the Earth’s atmosphere become oxic? A Reply.” The Geochemical News #100: 20-22 (see Ohmoto 1997 )

Kasting, J. F., J. L. Siefert,
2002 “Life and the Evolution of Earth's Atmosphere” Science 296:1066

Pepin, R. O.
1997 "Evolution of Earth's Noble Gases: Consequences of Assuming Hydrodynamic Loss Driven by Giant Impact" Icarus 126, 148-156 (1997).

There are others, but anyone reading those above will get the basics. The result is that there was a reducing atmosphere, and ocean system with highly reducing oases. A recent paper:

Rosing, Minik T. and Robert Frei
2003 U-rich Archaean sea-floor sediments from Greenland – indications of >3700 Ma oxygenic photosynthesis" Earth and Planetary Science Letters, online 6 December 03

presents data that suggest there were very early oxygenic life forms in marine basins that most likely (to me anyway) were wiped out.

So, with a reduced atmosphere and ocean system, a shallow, hot crust and a UV rich, "cold" sun, we can ask the next question which is,

2) What was the source for "organic" molecules?

The classic paper was of course Stanley Miller's 1953 paper

Miller, Stanley L.,
1953 “A Production of Amino Acids Under Possible Primitive Earth Conditions” Science vol. 117:528-529

With a bit more information included in:

Miller, Stanley, Harold C. Urey
1959 “Organic Compound Synthesis on the Primitive Earth” Science vol 139 Num 3370: 254-251

Miller showed that a very simple set up that mimicked some key asspects of the early Earth could rapidly produce amino acids, among other things.

This result has been one of the most often repeated (and confirmed) experiments I have ever encountered. In spite of this, creationists regularly claim that it is invalid. Jonathan Wells, a fellow of the creationist "Discovery Institute" claims to have refuted the Miller/Urey experiment (and all of what he called Darwinist "icons." Wells himself has been exposed as a very shallow thinker on the following web resources:





But, the atmosphere is not the only synthesis location. For example

Amend, J. P. , E. L. Shock
1998 “Energetics of Amino Acid Synthesis in Hydrothermal Ecosystems” Science Volume 281, number 5383, Issue of 11 Sep , pp. 1659-1662.

Blank, J.G. Gregory H. Miller, Michael J. Ahrens, Randall E. Winans
2001 “Experimental shock chemistry of aqueous amino acid solutions and the cometary delivery of prebiotic compounds” Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 31(1-2):15-51, Feb-Apr

Chyba, Christopher F., Paul J. Thomas, Leigh Brookshaw, Carl Sagan
1990 "Cometary Delivery of Organic Molecules to the Early Earth" Science Vol. 249:366-373

Engel, Michael H., Bartholomew Nagy,
1982 "Distribution and Enantiomeric Composition of Amino Acids in the Murchison Meteorite", Nature , 296, April 29, , p. 838.

Matthews CN.
1992 Hydrogen cyanide polymerization: a preferred cosmochemical pathway. J. Br. Interplanet Soc. 45(1):43-8

Schoonen, Martin A. A., Yong Xu
2001 “Nitrogen Reduction Under Hydrothrmal Vent Conditions: Implications for the Prebiotic Synthesis of C-H-O-N Compounds” Astrobiology 1:133-142

So amino acids are easy and plentiful on a pre-life (abiotic) Earth.

But, we need more than just amino acids- sugars, nucleic acids, and lipids are also needed. I'll take those next.

Let's see.. I guess this is

2a) amino acids
2.b) sugars

Why do we need sugars? Well, the biggest reason is that without five carbon sugar our building life form can't make a "memory" like RNA or DNA. I'll get to the details later. First, where are the sugars?

Weber AL.
1997 Prebiotic amino acid thioester synthesis: thiol-dependent amino acid synthesis from formose substrates (formaldehyde and glycolaldehyde) and ammonia. Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere 28: 259-270.

{I know the title says "amino acid" but sugar is in there. Hint: formose is a kind of sugar. }

Cooper, George, Novelle Kimmich, Warren Belisle, Josh Sarinana, Katrina Brabham, Laurence Garrel
2001 Carbonaceous meteorites as a source of sugar-related organic compounds for the early Earth Nature 414, 879 - 883 (20 Dec 2001) Letters to Nature

Cody, George D., Nabil Z. Boctor, Timothy R. Filley, Robert M. Hazen, James H. Scott, Anurag Sharma, Hatten S. Yoder Jr.
2000 “Primordial Carbonylated Iron-Sulfur Compounds and the Synthesis of Pyruvate” Science v.289 : 1337-1340

Sephton, Mark A.
2001 Meteoritics: Life's sweet beginnings? Nature 414, 857 - 858 (20 Dec ) News and Views

Ricardo, A., Carrigan, M. A., Olcott, A. N., Benner, S. A.
2004 "Borate Minerals Stabilize Ribose" Science January 9; 303: 196 (in Brevia)

Stanley Miller, and collegues suggested an earlier substitute for sugar in :

Lazcano, Antonio, Stanley L. Miller
1996 “The Origin and Early Evolution of Life: Prebiotic Chemistry, the Pre-RNA World, and Time” Cell vol 85:793-798

Nelson, K. E., M. Levy, S. L. Miller
2000 “Peptide nucleic acids rather than RNA may have been the first genetic molecule” PNAS-USA v.97, 3868-3871

There are many more articles, but the bottom line reads "We got sugar."

OK, I'll do nucleic acid bases next. There aren't many that are used on Earth, just five.

There are a large number of creationist's books and web sites that claim there is some huge stability problem with nucleic acid base synthesis. This is a nice demonstration of how creationists copy eachother, since there are only a handfull of creationists with the education to even understand what this means. None that I know of have actually done research in the directly relevant area. Their claims generally can be traced back to a legit scientist, Robert Shapiro. Two of his representitive publications are:

Shapiro, Robert
1986 "Origins: A Skeptics Guide to the Creation of Life on Earth" New York: Summit Books

Shapiro, Robert
1999 Prebiotic Cytosine Synthesis: A Critical Analysis and Implications for the Origin of Life. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science 96 (8): 4396 *Side reactions make cytosine synthesis unlikely, but see Nelson et al (2001)

The 1986 book is very out of date, and very popular with creationists.

The 1999 Shapiro paper has also been answered. Levy and Miller raise a question of their own in:

Levy, M and Miller, S.L.,
1998 The stability of the RNA bases: Implications for the origin of life, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 95(14):7933–38,

But, like superior scientists, they answer the questions they raise.

The following are a selections of research articles that address the pre-biotic origin of nucleic acid bases:


For our fans following along at home, there are aspects of nucleoside synthesis in the earlier referenced papers as well.

So, we got plenty of nucleic acid bases.

2c) lipids.

Lipids are the stuff of membranes, they are what keeps inside in, and outside out. Today they are made by simple cells and moved up the food chain. So where did they come from 3.7 billion years (or so) ago?

One major source seems to be from meteors.

Deamer, D. W.
1985. Boundary structures are formed by organic components of the Murchison carbonaceous chondrite. Nature 317:792-794.

Deamer, D. W., and Pashley, R. M.
1989. Amphiphilic components of carbonaceous meteorites. Orig. Life Evol. Biosphere 19:21-33.

Krishnamurthy, R., Pitsch, S. & Arrhenius, G. 1999 Mineral induced formation of pentose-2,4-bisphosphates. Origins Life Evol. Biosph. 29, 139-152 ().

Dworkin, Jason P., David W. Deamer, Scott A. Sandford, and Louis J. Allamandola
2001 “Self-assembling amphiphilic molecules: Synthesis in simulated interstellar/precometary ices” PNAS 98: 815-819

Pizzarello, Sandra, Yongsong Huang, Luann Becker, Robert J. Poreda, Ronald A. Nieman, George Cooper, Michael Williams
2001 “The Organic Content of the Tagish Lake Meteorite” Science, Vol. 293, Issue 5538, 2236-2239, September 21, 2001

Segre' D., Ben-Eli D. Deamer D. and Lancet D.
2001 “The Lipid World” Origins Life Evol. Biosphere 31, 119-145.

So now that we got 'em, what do they do once they are on Earth?

They make things.

Martin M. Hanczyc, Shelly M. Fujikawa, and Jack W. Szostak
2003 Experimental Models of Primitive Cellular Compartments: Encapsulation, Growth, and Division Science October 24; 302: 618-622. (in Reports)

D.W. Deamer
1997 "The First Living Systems - A Bioenergetic Perspective", ; Microbiology and Molecular Biology Reviews, 61(2): 239; June

Chakrabarti, A.C., R.R. Breaker, G.F. Joyce, & D.W. Deamer
1994 Production of RNA by a Polymerase Protein Encapsulated within Phospho-Lipid Vesicles Journal of Molecular Evolution 39(6): 555-559 ( December)

Khvorova A, Kwak YG, Tamkun M, Majerfeld I, Yarus M.
1999. RNAs that bind and change the permeability of phospholipid membranes. Proceedings of the National Academy of the Sciences USA 96:10649-10654.

Yarus M.
1999. Boundaries for an RNA world. Current Opinion in Chemical Biology 3:260-267.

Walter P, Keenan R, Scmitz U.
2000. SRP-Where the RNA and membrane worlds meet. Science 287:1212-1213.



So far, we have amino acids, riobose and/or other 5 carbon sugar substitutes (pentoses), we have lipid membranes which encapsulate mineral particles and "organic" molecules. This is without any needed "interventions" and is purely the result of ordinary chemistry.

But, there are more things that need to happen before there is life on Earth.

Point 3) formation of complex systems

3a) Chirility

Pastuer discovered that most amino acids came in two forms which can be identified by how they refract light. We label theses L- (for levo or left) adn D- (for dextro, or right). The interesting thing is that life on Earth uses the L form of amino acids, and hardly ever uses the D- form. A solution of just one form is called "chiral" and a mix of forms about 50/50 is called racimic. The kinds (L or D) are called enantomers.

The nucleic acid bases I mentioned earlier are also found in L- and D- forms, only in this case life on Earth only uses the D- form.

Creationists like to present this as a profound mystery that is supposed to "prove" that they are correct. I want to mention a neat instance where both left and right amino acids are used in a living thing. It is very rare, but it does happen. Next time a creationist claims to be an "expert" and that amino acid chirility "proves" something supernatural, you can gob-smack-em. The protein is called Gramicidin A and it has 8 L-amino acids, 6 D-amino acids, and one glycine which is an amino acid that is neither L- or D- in its structure. I have found that even many biologists will bet an "adult beverage" that all proteins are exclucive L- amino acids.  

Before we go forward another couple of basic chemical facts need to be added to the discussion. First, L- amino acids will randomly convert to D- amino acids over time, and D- forms will convert to L- forms. This is called "racimization" becuse eventually you will end up with equal amounts of L- and D- amino acids. The rate that this occurs at varies with the amino acid, and its surroundings. The fastest conversion happens to amino acid molecules all by themselves in hot water. Under cold, dry conditions when the amino acids are attatched to one another, or better yet, if they are also attatched to a mineral, racimization can be very slow. Very, very slow.

This means that if there is even a tiny advantage one way or the other, the favored form will become the dominant form. The advantage comes from a surprising direction: outer space.

Cronin, J. R. & Pizzarello, S.,
1999. Amino acid enantomer excesses in meteorites: Origin and significance. Advances in Space Research 23(2): 293-299.

Service, RF,
1999. Does life's handedness come from within? Science 286: 1282-1283.

Antonio Chrysostomou, T. M. Gledhill,1 François Ménard, J. H. Hough, Motohide
Tamura and Jeremy Bailey
2000 "Polarimetry of young stellar objects -III. Circular polarimetry of OMC-1" Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society Volume 312 Issue 1 Page 103 - February

Michael H. Engel and Bartholomew Nagy,
1982 "Distribution and Enantiomeric Composition of Amino Acids in the Murchison Meteorite", Nature , 296, April 29, , p. 838.

Jeremy Bailey, Antonio Chrysostomou, J. H. Hough, T. M. Gledhill, Alan McCall, Stuart Clark, François Ménard, and Motohide Tamura
1998 Circular Polarization in Star- Formation Regions: Implications for Biomolecular Homochirality Science 1998 July 31; 281: 672-674. (in Reports)

Chyba, Christopher F.
1997 Origins of life: A left-handed Solar System? Nature 389, 234- 235 (18 Sep 1997)

Engel, M. H., S. A. Macko
1997 Isotopic evidence for extraterrestrial non- racemic amino acids in the Murchison meteorite. Nature 389, 265 - 268 (18 Sep) Letters to Nature

That should do for that. The next question is can the advantage of L- amino acids be conserved in the formation of more complex molecules called "peptides?" Yep.

Schmidt, J. G., Nielsen, P. E. & Orgel, L. E. 1997 Enantiomeric cross-inhibition in the synthesis of oligonucleotides on a nonchiral template. J. Am. Chem. Soc. 119, 1494-1495

Saghatelion A, Yokobayashi Y, Soltani K,
Ghadiri MR,
2001"A chiroselective peptide replicator",
Nature 409: 797-51, Feb

Singleton, D A,& Vo, L K,
2002 “Enantioselective Synthsis without Discrete Optically Active Additives” J. Am. Chem. Soc. 124, 10010-10011

Yao Shao, Ghosh I, Zutshi R, Chmielewski J.
1998 Selective amplification by auto- and cross-catalysis in a replicating peptide system. Nature. Dec 3;396(6710):447-50.

And there seems to be other L- selction advantages as well. For example:

Hazen, R.M., T.R. Filley, and G.A. Goodfriend.
2001. Selective adsorption of L- and D-amino acids on calcite: Implications for biochemical homochirality. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 98(May 8):5487.

So chirility doesn't seem to be a big problem. This is far different from the way creationists present this. They cite a few out of date reports and then falsely claim that chiral life is impossible by natural means.

But what about the nucleic acid bases? A new paper has just laid out the next step:

Ricardo, A., Carrigan, M. A., Olcott, A. N., Benner, S. A.
2004 "Borate Minerals Stabilize Ribose" Science January 9; 303: 196 (in Brevia)

Pizzarello, Sandra, Arthur L. Weber
2004 Prebiotic Amino Acids as Asymmetric Catalysts Science Vol 303, Issue 5661: 1151, 20 February 2004

It turns out that the selective advatage of L- amino acids will force the selection of D- nucleic acids, and the whole reaction can proceed under common, natural conditions.

Well, we have all the pieces. Our planet was formed from massive collisions of planetoids that had undergone independent evolution and weathering which retained much of their atmospheres to add to the growing planet Earth. We have amino acids, sugars, nucleic acid bases, lipids and minerals under an anoxic to reducing atmosphere and ocean with a thin hot crust and a UV rich cold Sun. Plus, remember that the Moon is closer and orbiting faster producing massive tidal flows compared to modern times.

Will these combine to make any thing?

Yep, they sure will:

Ferris JP, Hill AR Jr, Liu R, and Orgel LE. (1996 May 2). Synthesis of long prebiotic oligomers on mineral surfaces [see comments] Nature, 381, 59-61.

Lee DH, Granja JR, Martinez JA, Severin K, Ghadri MR.
1996 “A self-replicating peptide.” Nature Aug 8;382(6591):525-8

A.C. Chakrabarti, R.R. Breaker, G.F. Joyce, & D.W. Deamer
1994 Production of RNA by a Polymerase Protein Encapsulated within Phospho-Lipid Vesicles Journal of Molecular Evolution 39(6): 555-559 (1994 December)

Smith, J.V.
Biochemical evolution. I. Polymerization on internal, organophilic silica surfaces of dealuminated zeolites and feldspars Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 95(7): 3370-3375; March 31, 1998

Smith, J.V., Arnold, F.P., Parsons, I., Lee, M.R.
Biochemical evolution III: Polymerization on organophilic silica-rich surfaces, crystal- hemical modeling, formation of first cells, and geological clues Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America 96(7): 3479-3485; March 30, 1999

Blochl, Elisabeth, Martin Keller, Gunter Wächtershäuser , Karl Otto Stetter
1992 “Reactions depending on iron sulfide and linking geochemistry with biochemistry” PNAS-USA v.89: 8117-8120

Dyall, Sabrina D., Patricia J. Johnson
2000 “Origins of hydrogenosomes and mitochondria: evolution and organelle biogensis.” Current Opinion in Microbiology 3:404-411

Huber, Claudia, Gunter Wächtershäuser
1998 “Peptides by Activation of Amino Acids with CO on (Ni,Fe)S Surfaces: Implications for the Origin of Life” Science v.281: 670-672

Imai, E., Honda, H., Hatori, K., Brack, A. and Matsuno, K.
1999 “Elongation of oligopeptides in a simulated submarine hydrothermal system“ Science 283(5403):831–833.

Lee DH, Severin K, Yokobayashi Y, and Ghadiri MR,
1997 Emergence of symbiosis in peptide self- replication through a hypercyclic network. Nature, 390: 591-4

Someone in an email asked why I posted so many references.

There are several reasons. First, that is how science is done, we build on the work of others.

Second, when we use referenced data to make a point clear we state the source of our information up front. Anyone can read these papers. If they want, they can argue that I have misread the article, or that the article itself has been refuted by more up-to-date information.

Third, a common creationist claim is that there is no valid research on the origin of life, or that the research done is inconclucive. The references I have cited are evidence that these claims are false.

Fourth, except for some historical references, my sources are mostly less than 10 years old, and some are even less than 3 years old. This is in direct contrast to the selective use by creationist writers such as Jon Sarfati, or Jon Wells, who use a few out of date and refuted articles to puff up their nonsense.

So, there you have it.



Date: 2008/06/26 01:11:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ June 25 2008,14:14)
Some of the most interesting bits so far:

The importance of emotions to prioritizing decisions.

The cortex/limbic/amygdala relationiship whereby you can be influenced to behave differently based on emotions you aren't aware of.

How anger can increase from positive feedbacks loops, and catharsis actually makes the situation worse instead of better, but that anger can be diffused by waiting out the hormonal response.

Delayed gratification skills learned even by the age of 4 can have more impact on a person's graduation rates / SAT scores etc than IQ score well into adulthood.

The complicated relationship between anxiety and performance.

Ignoring/suppressing emotions may help make men 5 times more prone to alcoholism.

The significant impact optimism vs pessimism creates.

There's reference to a lot of research that seems to show that certain emotional traits can have more importance for success in life than any SAT or IQ test.

I'm only about halfway through. I'll have more to say later.

None of the statistically normative studies have any help dealing with the extremes.

I recall my mother being very disappointed when I was a high school student when she read an news article that indicated that average income declined for people with normalized IQs over 3 standard deviations from the mean. She was very materialistic in the sociological sense of the word.

We never starved.

She got over her 1930s-childhood induced economic angst.

Date: 2008/06/26 01:43:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have been reading books, and even posting reviews.

Apparently there is some sort of contest about how many people vote for "helpful" reviews at Amazon.com. I do admit that I like my ratio of 336 helpful to 408 total votes. 82% positive aint bad.

Date: 2008/06/26 12:33:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (DrPlausible @ June 26 2008,06:06)
Quote (Dr.GH @ June 25 2008,23:48)
Hey Dr. Plausible- Wes said that I didn't bother to carefully read your probability of abiogenesis post. He was correct. So, rather than "sick it in your ass:" you can pull it out, if you really want to that is.

Hi Dr GH,

Since it's obvious from my post that I would agree in principle to any argument put forward by any evolutionist against creationist "theories", and since it's obvious that I agree with Ian Musgrave on every point he raises EXCEPT on the question of using sequences of coin throws in order to put forward the argument for the high probability of abiogenesis — when the marginally more reality-like method of dice throws I propose yields a more plausibly GREATER probability —, I fail to see what the point was of giving me a very learned lecture and a bibliography preluded by a reference to my ass. My point was a mathematical one, arising from a concern to demonstrate a proof of abiogenesis rather than proving it, which I leave to more capable brains than mine. I bet that when you read the phrase "I beg to differ", you "saw it all", without giving me the prerogative of soft irony. I thought scientists were not supposed to jerk their knees quite so readily.

You are absolutly correct. I was in a foul mood, and I didn't bother to more than skim your post. This coupled with a 99% canned responce to abio questions and a lame attempt at 'humor' resulted in the post above.

Sorry.

I am much better now. (We had a very ill friend who frequently said this- seems appropriate.)

PS to BWE, Thanks, the booze will be more than adequate.

Date: 2008/06/26 21:30:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am so glad that tey have not stopped. They did delete much of their public humiliation, but then they lept right back in the cess.

Date: 2008/06/29 12:17:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Forget the plunger,

RUN!

Date: 2008/06/29 18:01:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The more important question is how to calculate the threads CSI.

Date: 2008/06/29 18:03:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
When you feel better, Happy Birthday.

(Or, if like me- you never post your actual birthdate) Happy Pseudobirthday.

Date: 2008/06/30 19:25:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
This is better than Dembski has been in the last year or so.

Date: 2008/06/30 20:33:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (carlsonjok @ June 30 2008,18:18)
Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,20:12)
Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,17:39)
What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH.

I will PRAY for you.


....better?

Your mocking me aren't you?

Only on the surface. Deep inside we are seeing our whole worldview collapse at the feet of your incisive logic.  We are scared of the dark that is enveloping us and we shake our fists at it in a futile attempt to stave off the inevitable.

Yeah, I near pissed my pants with... well not really.

It isn't even that funny. If Icd is a pretend creato, we can do it better. If they are for real, then it is merely pathetic.

Date: 2008/06/30 20:37:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 30 2008,18:29)
Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,14:35)
I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one.

I heered them revenooers was after him for his moonshine still.

When I was in Georgia, there was a candidate for county sheriff who ran on the promise that he would "Clean up the moonshiners."  He didn't mean to shut them down, just "clean them up." It seems there were some poor quality 'shiners who used lead solder, and over cooked (ran the still too hot).  This resulted in a dangerous mix of toxins.

Date: 2008/07/01 08:29:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Very nice essay Wes.

Date: 2008/07/01 10:30:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (carlsonjok @ July 01 2008,07:12)
Plus, on your point one, you forgot that no one has seen a half-cat, half dog.

you forgot, ... with wings.

Date: 2008/07/01 12:46:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Instead of using this apparent troll as a creationist chew toy, I recommend going to real creationists and responding to them. I have taken to registering at newspapers following evo/creato articles and responding to the comments. Few sites allow links, and none allow using jpegs, but they are where the creatos really are.

Date: 2008/07/01 12:50:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
H' B'D'

Date: 2008/07/01 16:06:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Chayanov @ July 01 2008,13:56)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 01 2008,15:39)
If someone like PZ wrote the list, that would explain a lot.

I know, it's like they're being set up to fail. As if this will be the first time we've ever heard statements like "Evolution is religion," or "[Insert name of dictator] was a Darwinist" or "ID isn't religion -- my pastor told me so."

I would be glad to respond to a real creationist, but LCD was so obviously a phony trolling for reactions that I could not be bothered.

Date: 2008/07/02 17:32:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (khan @ June 29 2008,16:25)
Hope I die before I get old(er).

Being "older" I can safely assert that dying is still less appealing. True, the hot chicks are only after my money- but why should I care?

Date: 2008/07/02 17:47:48, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Deal with real (mostly) Brit creationists.

Date: 2008/07/02 17:52:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
great photos. Tell us the camera and lens details.  

I have had a Nuttels woodpecker visiting for 2 days now which is very fun.  They are rare here, and then mostly winter migrants. Climate change?

The sharpshinned hawk is still around too.

Date: 2008/07/03 11:34:13, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Thanks BWE.

It has been nearly 10 years since I was asked by some Turkish college students to read some of Harhar yaho's trash. I saw all the classic ICR and AiG crap recycled. I merely directed them to TalkOrigins. Maybe I should have been more concerned.

Date: 2008/07/03 14:07:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
H' BD.

Date: 2008/07/03 16:17:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (midwifetoad @ July 03 2008,14:04)
No one looks at the bathrrom wall today. For those interested in reading and possibly quoting from the lawsuit, I have a text pdf.

text pdf

Thanks (Thanks to ERV as well)

Date: 2008/07/03 17:08:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
LCD, You haven't got a theory yet. "1:  My Theory is that DNA has Information that can be destroyed." is not a theory. A theory is an organized set of statements which describe and predict the behavior of a system, or group of observations. A theory must make predictions that are novel.

You have not even defined "information" or shown that it can be "destroyed" or that it can be carried or represented by DNA.

See, "My Theory" for a short distraction on the nature of theory.

Date: 2008/07/04 21:32:10, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 04 2008,08:17)
DS quotes Jerry Pournell:
               [quote]Jerry Pournelle weighs in on intelligent design
DaveScot

Searching news.google.com for “intelligent design” I happened across a recent article by a favorite author of mine, Jerry Pournelle...

If you scan down the comments section, I made a few suggestions for Pournelle.

Date: 2008/07/05 00:44:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have made several attempts at EE.  I have deployed many 'postit' notes and then gave up and am now writting in red ink all over the pages of this terrible book.

I really should start posting, becasue it will be too large a task by the time I finish reading EE. I have taken several breaks in which I read several other books- mostly written by creationists.

Date: 2008/07/05 10:38:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Schlafly is becoming a new icon of tard. Delightful.

Date: 2008/07/06 03:40:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I don't look at TT having had my fill of Mike Gene years ago on the ARN BB. From the last two pages of this tread, I have not missed anything.

Date: 2008/07/06 03:40:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I don't look at TT having had my fill of Mike Gene years ago on the ARN BB. From the last two pages of this tread, I have not missed anything.

Date: 2008/07/06 03:42:03, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,00:21)
David Springer dropped a comment into the queue on my blog wishing me a fatal disease. That sort of thing is why I use a moderation queue for everything on my personal weblog.

Springer apparently thinks that wishing a fatal disease on me has some sort of parity with my comment that Jerry Pournelle should get well, and in doing so may find his otherwise inexplicable fondness for IDC to have been a side effect of his illness.

You are much nicer than I am.

Date: 2008/07/06 12:36:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Who is this "guts" person? Are they on drugs?

Date: 2008/07/06 12:36:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Who is this "guts" person? Are they on drugs?

Date: 2008/07/06 14:58:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,12:34)
What are you talking about, I answer questions on a daily basis whenever I make a blog. I always answer questions.

I suspect you imaine you make art every time you make a turd.  I had a dog like that, he seemed to take great pride in his turds, especially when he shat in another dog's yard. He would run around and come back to give them a good sniff. He seemed indignant when I cleaned them up.

Alot like you in fact.

Of course, you make blogs too, and boogers. Your delusions of adequacy must be crippling. Same ol' same ol'.

Edited to change "buggers" to "boogers." Neatness counts.

Edited again to not correct a spelling error, but merely to show that I could have edited to correct a spelling error if I felt like correcting a spelling error when I wanted to correct it.

Edited yet again to point out that I don't want to correct the spelling error. But, I could have by using the editing function available to be becasue I can.

Edited to correct one spelling error, but not the rest in cluding these and the other ones.



Date: 2008/07/06 14:58:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,12:34)
What are you talking about, I answer questions on a daily basis whenever I make a blog. I always answer questions.

I suspect you imaine you make art every time you make a turd.  I had a dog like that, he seemed to take great pride in his turds, especially when he shat in another dog's yard. He would run around and come back to give them a good sniff. He seemed indignant when I cleaned them up.

Alot like you in fact.

Of course, you make blogs too, and boogers. Your delusions of adequacy must be crippling. Same ol' same ol'.

Edited to change "buggers" to "boogers." Neatness counts.

Edited again to not correct a spelling error, but merely to show that I could have edited to correct a spelling error if I felt like correcting a spelling error when I wanted to correct it.

Edited yet again to point out that I don't want to correct the spelling error. But, I could have by using the editing function available to be becasue I can.

Edited to correct one spelling error, but not the rest in cluding these and the other ones.



Date: 2008/07/06 15:07:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Is "guts" Nelson?

The dawn appears.

Edited to add (because I can): I was wondering if "guts" was DaveTard on speed.



Date: 2008/07/06 15:07:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Is "guts" Nelson?

The dawn appears.

Edited to add (because I can): I was wondering if "guts" was DaveTard on speed.



Date: 2008/07/06 16:06:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So what are the first 10?

[strikeout]Pussy[/strikeout] (cuz I am tired of Nelson's faggot talk).

Edited so not to abuse the edit function by eliminating a potentially embarassing comment or correct errors.



Date: 2008/07/06 16:06:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So what are the first 10?

[strikeout]Pussy[/strikeout] (cuz I am tired of Nelson's faggot talk).

Edited so not to abuse the edit function by eliminating a potentially embarassing comment or correct errors.



Date: 2008/07/06 16:15:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
 
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So, what are the first ten?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:15:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
 
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So, what are the first ten?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:18:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So, what are the first ten?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:18:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,13:53)
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

So, what are the first ten?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:32:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Seriously Nelson, I recall you from ARN as an irritant, but not a total jerk. And what is with the nickname "guts?" Guts are long slimy tubes full of shit. Are you really into that much self disclosure?

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:32:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Seriously Nelson, I recall you from ARN as an irritant, but not a total jerk. And what is with the nickname "guts?" Guts are long slimy tubes full of shit. Are you really into that much self disclosure?

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:42:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:34)
Quote

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?


Actually there are dozens of successful predictions made by ID.

You cannot even list 10.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:42:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,14:34)
Quote

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?


Actually there are dozens of successful predictions made by ID.

You cannot even list 10.

Date: 2008/07/06 17:14:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Here is an example, Nelson.

Land animals evolved from fish. Land animals are common by about 300 million years ago.

Prediction: Between 400 and 300 million years ago, there are fossils of fish with anatomy in between fish and tetapods.

Result: Ahlberg, P. E., Luksevics, E. & Lebedev, O. 1994. The first tetrapod finds from the Devonian (Upper Famennian) of Latvia. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B 343, 303-328.

Per E. Ahlberg, Jennifer A. Clack, Ervins Lukshevechk, Henning Blom, Ivars Zupinsh
2008 "Ventastega curonica and the origin of tetrapod morphology" Nature  453, 1199 - 1204 (26 Jun 2008).

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin, Farish A. Jenkins
"A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan" Nature  440, 757 - 763 (06 Apr 2006), doi: 10.1038/nature04639

See how easy that is?

Now you do one.



Edited to undo the last edit.



Date: 2008/07/06 17:14:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Here is an example, Nelson.

Land animals evolved from fish. Land animals are common by about 300 million years ago.

Prediction: Between 400 and 300 million years ago, there are fossils of fish with anatomy in between fish and tetapods.

Result: Ahlberg, P. E., Luksevics, E. & Lebedev, O. 1994. The first tetrapod finds from the Devonian (Upper Famennian) of Latvia. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B 343, 303-328.

Per E. Ahlberg, Jennifer A. Clack, Ervins Lukshevechk, Henning Blom, Ivars Zupinsh
2008 "Ventastega curonica and the origin of tetrapod morphology" Nature  453, 1199 - 1204 (26 Jun 2008).

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin, Farish A. Jenkins
"A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan" Nature  440, 757 - 763 (06 Apr 2006), doi: 10.1038/nature04639

See how easy that is?

Now you do one.



Edited to undo the last edit.



Date: 2008/07/06 17:57:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin, Farish A. Jenkins
"A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan" Nature  440, 757 - 763 (06 Apr 2006), doi: 10.1038/nature04639

The famous Tikaalik fossil is particularly interesting for the current discussion because the researchers went to the field location because it matched predicted age and environmental conditions that were predicted to yield this sort of predicted intermeadiate.  

See?  Prediction from theory followed by experiment/obsevation will yield important results, IF there is a theory that is not just a pile of crap.

So, Nelson? Your turn to present one of the dozens (heheh) of ID successes.

Edited to add: Come on Nelson, get with it!



Date: 2008/07/06 17:57:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin, Farish A. Jenkins
"A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan" Nature  440, 757 - 763 (06 Apr 2006), doi: 10.1038/nature04639

The famous Tikaalik fossil is particularly interesting for the current discussion because the researchers went to the field location because it matched predicted age and environmental conditions that were predicted to yield this sort of predicted intermeadiate.  

See?  Prediction from theory followed by experiment/obsevation will yield important results, IF there is a theory that is not just a pile of crap.

So, Nelson? Your turn to present one of the dozens (heheh) of ID successes.

Edited to add: Come on Nelson, get with it!



Date: 2008/07/06 18:01:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So that was about 100 people who read Nelson's being spanked.

I hope he enjoyed it.



Date: 2008/07/06 18:01:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So that was about 100 people who read Nelson's being spanked.

I hope he enjoyed it.



Date: 2008/07/06 20:43:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,17:18)
Like I said, I'm not here to explain to a bunch of trolls my position, it's a complete waste of time. I'm only here to expose the lies and deceit that crop up here. It's very simple concept to understand.

You = troll

Me  = troll smasher, not patient teacher

OK, big troll snatcher guy

Crush me with you totally irrefutable example of a positive demonstration of a successful IDC prediction.  I gave you an example to follow for format.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:43:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,17:18)
Like I said, I'm not here to explain to a bunch of trolls my position, it's a complete waste of time. I'm only here to expose the lies and deceit that crop up here. It's very simple concept to understand.

You = troll

Me  = troll smasher, not patient teacher

OK, big troll snatcher guy

Crush me with you totally irrefutable example of a positive demonstration of a successful IDC prediction.  I gave you an example to follow for format.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:47:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,17:41)
Quote

That's nice guts. Now, if you've finish obsfucating, ID predictions? Or even a scientific theory would be a good start.


Read my blogs. Let me know if you have any questions.

So, that is where you give all the detailed, dozens of ID predictions?

Got a link?

Got a Clue?

Date: 2008/07/06 20:47:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,17:41)
Quote

That's nice guts. Now, if you've finish obsfucating, ID predictions? Or even a scientific theory would be a good start.


Read my blogs. Let me know if you have any questions.

So, that is where you give all the detailed, dozens of ID predictions?

Got a link?

Got a Clue?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:03:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,18:20)
Ok Bill I'll give the one I remember off the top of my head.

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed and influenced evolution

prediction: evolution relied heavily on it's ancient past, we should find key components, such as genes borrowed from that ancient past.

Indeed, it has been found that the common ancestor of cnidarians and bilaterians had an expanded complement of wnt genes already.

That is an example of a successful IDC prediction?

Have you people learned nothing in all these years?

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed

The "starting" conditions? Just what were these "starting conditions" you speak of, stranger? I would know more of this new science.

And, these strange conditions you say were "designed?" And how might you distiguish between a designed "starting condition" and one "undesigned?"

... and influenced evolution

Well, as Darwin and many generations of biologists agree, physical conditions do indeed "influence evolution."  Why, we even call it "Natural Selection."   How do you creationists tell natural selection apart from "influenced evolution." Why do you think that "evolution" happens if it is really all from "design?"

How do you find your ass in the morning?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:03:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,18:20)
Ok Bill I'll give the one I remember off the top of my head.

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed and influenced evolution

prediction: evolution relied heavily on it's ancient past, we should find key components, such as genes borrowed from that ancient past.

Indeed, it has been found that the common ancestor of cnidarians and bilaterians had an expanded complement of wnt genes already.

That is an example of a successful IDC prediction?

Have you people learned nothing in all these years?

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed

The "starting" conditions? Just what were these "starting conditions" you speak of, stranger? I would know more of this new science.

And, these strange conditions you say were "designed?" And how might you distiguish between a designed "starting condition" and one "undesigned?"

... and influenced evolution

Well, as Darwin and many generations of biologists agree, physical conditions do indeed "influence evolution."  Why, we even call it "Natural Selection."   How do you creationists tell natural selection apart from "influenced evolution." Why do you think that "evolution" happens if it is really all from "design?"

How do you find your ass in the morning?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:07:30, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,18:55)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,20:51)
One thing in general that ID in general predicts is conceptual similarties among biological systems and that these conceptual similarities are there because of good engineering principles, like robustness in bacterial chemotaxis.

"conceptual" lol

What the fuck are "conceptual" similarities?  Like, is a spigot conceptually similar to Mike Gene's cock?

Mike drips? Maybe he has the clap.

Wait a minute! That is privledged information.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:36:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:36:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:16:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
HaHaHa

Some twit on PT was pissing about the evil censorship merely because I suggested his off topic crap would be "flushed" to the bathroom wall."

I got here first!!!111!!

like I said, "It is not censorship. Some people like to hang out in bathrooms - even conservatives - even elected conservatives in airports, and consecrated conservatives on meth."

:p

Date: 2008/07/06 22:18:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,19:41)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Yes

Then you are too fucking stupid, or too dishonest to be bothered with any more.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:18:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,19:41)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Yes

Then you are too fucking stupid, or too dishonest to be bothered with any more.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:57:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I doubt that Nelson will be banned, much to his disappointment. Sorry, Nelson you are 1) not significant, and 2) an excellent creato chew toy.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:57:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I doubt that Nelson will be banned, much to his disappointment. Sorry, Nelson you are 1) not significant, and 2) an excellent creato chew toy.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:20:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,20:58)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,23:57)
I doubt that Nelson will be banned, much to his disappointment. Sorry, Nelson you are 1) not significant, and 2) an excellent creato chew toy.

Quite.

So, is this the low level that Mike Gene's crowd has sunk to? I recall just a few years ago that some pro-science people held Mike Gene out as an "exception" among the ID creationist scrum.  Rather like how Kurt Wise was lauded as an "honest YEC" because he admitted that his insistance on a young earth was not supported by any evidence- only his literalist interpretation of Genesis.

In psychiatry we called this delusion,  one of the key symptoms of psychosis.

PS: Nelson, you and Ed Bryton like to call me an alcoholic. I do like to drink beer, wine and single malt scotch. At the moment I am enjoying a particularly pleasant Merlot. Unlike either of you two birds-of-a-feather, I have professional experience in the treatment of alcoholism, and publications in the same. For the record- I am not an alcoholic. I am sufficiently well known on the "intertubenets" that a lawsuit for defamation could not be brought ( I checked). So bullshit all you want, you are still a dickwad. (Is "putz" more delicate? There are also Mayan terms, "Kep iyung" or the Samoan, "O' Kunga Fiki.")

Date: 2008/07/06 23:20:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,20:58)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,23:57)
I doubt that Nelson will be banned, much to his disappointment. Sorry, Nelson you are 1) not significant, and 2) an excellent creato chew toy.

Quite.

So, is this the low level that Mike Gene's crowd has sunk to? I recall just a few years ago that some pro-science people held Mike Gene out as an "exception" among the ID creationist scrum.  Rather like how Kurt Wise was lauded as an "honest YEC" because he admitted that his insistance on a young earth was not supported by any evidence- only his literalist interpretation of Genesis.

In psychiatry we called this delusion,  one of the key symptoms of psychosis.

PS: Nelson, you and Ed Bryton like to call me an alcoholic. I do like to drink beer, wine and single malt scotch. At the moment I am enjoying a particularly pleasant Merlot. Unlike either of you two birds-of-a-feather, I have professional experience in the treatment of alcoholism, and publications in the same. For the record- I am not an alcoholic. I am sufficiently well known on the "intertubenets" that a lawsuit for defamation could not be brought ( I checked). So bullshit all you want, you are still a dickwad. (Is "putz" more delicate? There are also Mayan terms, "Kep iyung" or the Samoan, "O' Kunga Fiki.")

Date: 2008/07/06 23:27:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,21:19)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,23:16)
HaHaHa

Some twit on PT was pissing about the evil censorship merely because I suggested his off topic crap would be "flushed" to the bathroom wall."

I got here first!!!111!!

like I said, "It is not censorship. Some people like to hang out in bathrooms - even conservatives - even elected conservatives in airports, and consecrated conservatives on meth."

:p

I got here about 220 pages ago Dr. GH.  You're just fashionably late.

:)

One of the few times I was ever fashionably late. Usually I am unfashionably early.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:42:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,20:53)
Ahhh, the UD thread. Feels good to be home.

Have they got more stupid?

Hurray

Date: 2008/07/06 23:46:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Well Dr. GH, at least I get drinking booze in my spare time.  But bestiary obsessions, with bunnies?  That ain't right... =)

I always hated those marshmallow bunnies.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:46:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Well Dr. GH, at least I get drinking booze in my spare time.  But bestiary obsessions, with bunnies?  That ain't right... =)

I always hated those marshmallow bunnies.

Date: 2008/07/07 00:11:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Well Dr. GH, at least I get drinking booze in my spare time.  But bestiary obsessions, with bunnies?  That ain't right... =)

Well, let's see if I can make a gross response, but not really so disgusting that you actually see into some of the nasty human corners I have worked in.

Got it! I have a toenail fungus!

Whoowhoo.

Except that it evolved. And I try to kill it.

I kill things other things too; fish especially, but today a rat. Oh, that is just a selection pressure.

Dang, Nelson.  Evolution is everywhere.  Is that why your head is so deeply buried in the special warm dark place?



Date: 2008/07/07 00:11:11, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Well Dr. GH, at least I get drinking booze in my spare time.  But bestiary obsessions, with bunnies?  That ain't right... =)

Well, let's see if I can make a gross response, but not really so disgusting that you actually see into some of the nasty human corners I have worked in.

Got it! I have a toenail fungus!

Whoowhoo.

Except that it evolved. And I try to kill it.

I kill things other things too; fish especially, but today a rat. Oh, that is just a selection pressure.

Dang, Nelson.  Evolution is everywhere.  Is that why your head is so deeply buried in the special warm dark place?



Date: 2008/07/07 10:01:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 06 2008,22:36)
To Dr. GH

I too noticed that bit of character asassination by gutless  early on in this day's thread . ...

Howdy, I had a member of my dissertation committee who was an alcoholic and suffered some fairly significant physical problems as a consequence. However, to watch the man work in the field was amazing.

re: bunnies

And if the Playboy Club hadn't hired Gloria Steinem, feminist history courses might have been several books shorter. (Or, what if the New York Yankees had signed pitcher Fidel Castro to their minor league, and he met Gloria Steinem at the Playboy Club?)   :D

Date: 2008/07/07 10:01:59, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 06 2008,22:36)
To Dr. GH

I too noticed that bit of character asassination by gutless  early on in this day's thread . ...

Howdy, I had a member of my dissertation committee who was an alcoholic and suffered some fairly significant physical problems as a consequence. However, to watch the man work in the field was amazing.

re: bunnies

And if the Playboy Club hadn't hired Gloria Steinem, feminist history courses might have been several books shorter. (Or, what if the New York Yankees had signed pitcher Fidel Castro to their minor league, and he met Gloria Steinem at the Playboy Club?)   :D

Date: 2008/07/07 10:18:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (lcd @ July 07 2008,04:52)
Um,


So Guts is the real deal from the TT board?  That is not a good thing.

I am not happy to say that I can't find much help in ID sites about the definition of Information as it applies to genetic sequences.  That part seems to need a lot of work.

The most serious attempt was made by Herbert Yockey. He is a great favorite with creationists.  The general reason that I do not put stock in the "DNA is information" is that chemistry, especially biochemistry, is sloppy flexible adaptive stuff. How does a mutation happen?- lots of ways. How do mutations alter gene function? - lots of ways. Does altered gene function propagate through a population? maybe, maybe not. Does it matter if the altered gene function is "positive?" - maybe, but how do you define "positive." Will the accumulations of altered genes result in daughter species? - maybe, maybe not.

So then, an engineer or a physicist comes along and acts as if these are all the same questions as "Will a 10mm wrench turn a 20mm bolt?" And then they get all frustrated and make stupid assertions that "evolution cannot account for the information content of the geneome." Piffle.

Instead, I say, "Information theory cannot account for evolution." It can provide a few tools, that's all.

However, IT does give creationists a lot of quotemine from scientists, and they can use inappropriate probability arguments with math-like looking symbols.



Date: 2008/07/07 10:18:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (lcd @ July 07 2008,04:52)
Um,


So Guts is the real deal from the TT board?  That is not a good thing.

I am not happy to say that I can't find much help in ID sites about the definition of Information as it applies to genetic sequences.  That part seems to need a lot of work.

The most serious attempt was made by Herbert Yockey. He is a great favorite with creationists.  The general reason that I do not put stock in the "DNA is information" is that chemistry, especially biochemistry, is sloppy flexible adaptive stuff. How does a mutation happen?- lots of ways. How do mutations alter gene function? - lots of ways. Does altered gene function propagate through a population? maybe, maybe not. Does it matter if the altered gene function is "positive?" - maybe, but how do you define "positive." Will the accumulations of altered genes result in daughter species? - maybe, maybe not.

So then, an engineer or a physicist comes along and acts as if these are all the same questions as "Will a 10mm wrench turn a 20mm bolt?" And then they get all frustrated and make stupid assertions that "evolution cannot account for the information content of the geneome." Piffle.

Instead, I say, "Information theory cannot account for evolution." It can provide a few tools, that's all.

However, IT does give creationists a lot of quotemine from scientists, and they can use inappropriate probability arguments with math-like looking symbols.



Date: 2008/07/07 14:41:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
From the Vancouver Sun:

Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed ff Media gadfly Ben Stein is the co-writer and "host" of this strange documentary, which postulates that the teaching of "Intelligent Design" -- a variation of creationism -- has been blocked by a scientific community that can't look beyond Darwin's theory of evolution. The movie is mostly an attack rather than a defence, and it goes overboard when it starts to blame Darwinism for the Nazi death camps and other evils. Parental guidance. 97 min. Granville.

Date: 2008/07/08 15:56:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 08 2008,11:12)
I'm about one-third of the way through Robert Richards' biography of Ernst Haeckel, "A Tragic Sense of Life". I looked in the Acknowledgments to see if the author thanked Paul Nelson for his contributions, but didn't find it there.

Interesting that Richard Weikart, 2004 "From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany" (New York: Palgrave/MacMillian) uses Haeckel as the secret conduit that injected “Darwinism” into Germany thus causing the Nazis and the Holocaust. I guess Weikart never heard of Martin Luther, or Arthur Comte de Gobineau's The inequality of Human Races (1853-1855).  I suspected that I would need to read Richards’s book whether it was good or not. I am glad to learn you have enjoyed it.

I finished “The Genesis Debate” (David Hagopian editor, 2001 Crux Press) this morning. In the introduction written by Norman Geisler, I learned that the important thing to remember was that the real enemy of the Christian Church is evolutionism, and “Our foe is Liberalism” and that evangelicals must “turn their cannons on naturalists.”  The best part of the book was getting to read YECs be as dishonest and arrogant toward their fellow conservative fundys as they are toward scientists.

I have stalled ~ ½ way through on “Saving Darwin: How to be a Christian and Believe in Evolution.” I bought it following Dembski’s glowing recommendation.

Two books arrived this afternoon “Ancient Mesopotamia: Portrait of a Dead Civilization” by A. Leo Opperheim (2nd edition 1977, University of Chicago Press), and “The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945” by Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003 Cambridge Uni Press).  I think I’ll read Steigmann-Gall before Saul Friedlander,  2007 Nazi Germany and the Jews, The Years of Extermination, 1939-1945 (New York:HarperCollins).  I don’t know how Friedlander writes so fast, it is only ten years since Nazi Germany and the Jews, The Years of Persecution, 1933-1939.

Niel Shubin’s book, “Your Inner Fish” was great fun, and a fairly quick read. I was less happy with Gordy Slack’s Dover book.  I liked Ken Miller’s new “Only a Theory,” but like others I was not convinced by his Christian apologetics. (The fishing was off last week and I only went on Friday.)

I stalled at page 22 of “Explore Evolution.” I have underlined errors on every page of text starting with the preface. I will finish it before Nelson publishes his “ontogenic depth” paper, and before (probably) I finish writing “Dembski: Hammered and Screwed.” (The latter is too long, 20+ pages not counting bibliography.)

Date: 2008/07/08 16:05:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I buy all my fundy books used or remaindered.

I have stalled out reading Explor Evolution. I am on page 22.  I have underlined errors on every page of text starting at the preface.

Date: 2008/07/08 17:02:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
So, TT really means "Total Tard?"

Are all the whack jobs from ARN posting at Mike Gene's little menagerie?

Date: 2008/07/08 18:21:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Doc Bill @ July 08 2008,15:19)
Without Paul to kick around this thread is very boring!

Dr GH, give us an error to kick around.  How about a nice, juicy misquote?

Well, toward the end of the preface, they wrote, "Whenever there is disagreement over a particular point, we have tried to give arguments from the "best" people we could find on both sides of the question, rounding up the most qualified proponents and critics that we could."

Oh yeah.  I believe that.

Quotes?  Page six has a footnote #3.  In that footnote (actually most substantive notes are collected at the end of the chapter) in very small print we may read, "In a famous passage from the end of the Origin, Darwin argued that, 'all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form.' This is called Universal Common Descent becasue it claims that every organism on Earth is connected to the same tree of life, rooted in the same common ancestor." They reference the First edition of The Origin.

Here is the quoted portion of the sentence presented in bold from the original first edition text:  
Quote
"I believe that animals have descended from at most only four or five progenitors, and plants from an equal or lesser number.

Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants have descended from some one prototype. But analogy may be a deceitful guide. Nevertheless all living things have much in common, in their chemical composition, their germinal vesicles, their cellular structure, and their laws of growth and reproduction. We see this even in so trifling a circumstance as that the same poison often similarly affects plants and animals; or that the poison secreted by the gall-fly produces monstrous growths on the wild rose or oak-tree. Therefore I should infer from analogy that probably all the organic beings which have ever lived on this earth have descended from some one primordial form, into which life was first breathed.


So of course the creationists have lied. They changed the sentence punctuation to hide that they had redacted the sentence. It is interesting they have cut Darwin's reference to a Creator.

Nor have they presented Darwin's actual views. In the 6th edition he rephrased the same section to read,  
Quote
"I believe that animals are descended from at most only four or five progenitors, and plants from an equal or lesser number.

Analogy would lead me one step further, namely, to the belief that all animals and plants are descended from some one prototype. But analogy may be a deceitful guide. Nevertheless all living things have much in common, in their chemical composition, their cellular structure, their laws of growth, and their liability to injurious influences."

And he added, "No doubt it is possible, as Mr. G.H. Lewes has urged, that at the first commencement of life many different forms were evolved; but if so, we may conclude that only a very few have left modified descendants."




Date: 2008/07/09 10:52:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Did we miss Paul this AM?

Quote
64 guests, 24 Public Members and 2 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Dr.GH >lcd >J-Dog >Sol3a1 >dnmlthr >Paul Nelson >Nerull >midwifetoad >SpeedDemon >Ftk >Jim_Wynne >ERV >Freelurker >ppb >Ra-Úl >simmi >Arden Chatfield >JohnW >dheddle >jeannot >Assassinator >Zachriel >creeky belly >olegt




Date: 2008/07/09 13:23:16, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wanted to see Nelson bite the hook and complain that EE was misrepresented because I left out that they eventually mention the rest of Darwin’s thought. In fact, EE mentions this in a manner to further obscure Darwin’s meaning.

At the end of the footnote following a discussion of the meaning of “universe,” and the bibliographic data for the edition and reprint version of The Origin they had misquoted, EE adds, “Elsewhere in the Origin, Darwin allowed for the possibility that life might have arisen from one or a few original life forms."

As we can see above, this notion of decent from “a few” forms is important to understanding Darwin’s thinking regarding a universal common ancestor, and how Darwin limits evolutionary theory to life, and not the origin of life. In fact, Darwin bracketed his cautious observation of a possible LCA with the notion of multiple original life forms. The final sentence in the first edition, "There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved." was slightly modified in the Sixth edition to clearly indicate that the "Creator" was responsible for the origin of life. Some scholarly studies claim that Darwin regretted making this concession to his publishers.

Date: 2008/07/09 22:32:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
My my.  This is a lot of fun in a cruel sort of way.

Date: 2008/07/10 00:41:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Joy @ July 09 2008,20:46)
Buh-bye.

Ya sur ya becha

Date: 2008/07/10 00:46:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Paul Nelson @ July 09 2008,22:39)
Hi Gary,

Morse Peckham's variorum edition of the Origin shows "by the Creator" added by Darwin in two places (both in reference to the origin of life, after the verb "breathed").  This addition occurs, if I recall correctly -- don't have the book with me at the moment (I'm in Oxford at a conference) -- in the second, not the sixth, edition, and is retained by Darwin from the second ed. forward.  (He did grumble in private correspondence about making the addition, but never took it out.)

Then I expect that you will correct the gross violation of Darwin's meaning even though it will deprive you of some slight rhetorical advantage.

No?



Date: 2008/07/10 11:10:38, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (jeffox @ July 10 2008,00:21)
Dr. GH wrote above:
 
Quote
Quote (Joy @ July 09 2008,20:46)
Buh-bye.

Ya sur ya becha


Ya ya, dere Dr. GH, looks ta me like ya useta live in Minnesota, dere, eh?  Up ta by what lake, eh?  Ya godda tell me so's I know, eh, maybe we can go fishin', ya tink?

Tanks in 'vance, eh!

Hey dere Jeff, my wife's da he is a old contry Nord from dere. An he cant fish fur a dam, eh? uftame go figur.

But ya commin down ta de dana point an we godda go get ona boat ya tink?

Date: 2008/07/10 11:20:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yep. It is remarkable how skilled they are at puting these things together. I hope their vacation goes well and the get back to trashing creationists real soon.

Date: 2008/07/10 14:13:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
There was a pro-creationist editorial promoting Expelled in the Ottawa Citizen written by a Rabbi. I am too disgusted to reply today.

http://www.canada.com/ottawac....047&p=3



Date: 2008/07/10 18:19:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 10 2008,13:44)
 
Quote
Dear Mike T.:

Please tell your Uncommon Dissent pals that I am listed at www.scholar.google.com, but under J Kwok. Have at least one, possibly two, citations there.

John

Posted by: John Kwok | July 10, 2008 3:13 PM


You guys really know how to search for stuff.FAIL indeed. Twats.

edit: yes!

I ran "G Hurd" on google scholar and tried to eliminate as many false positives as possible and there were still a lot of "G Hurd" hits that weren't me.

"GS Hurd" only had 10 hits, but one wasn't me.

"Gary Hurd" had 26 hits and 2 weren't me.

"Gary S. Hurd" had 14 hits- all me.

"GS Hurd" +blood returned 2 hits- one not me.

"GS Hurd "+pottery, or network, or rock art, or psychiatry, or taphonomy, or creationism all returned 1 to 10 titles that were mine and a lot that were not.

That was sort of fun.

Date: 2008/07/10 19:00:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Kristine @ July 10 2008,16:56)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/>
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 10 2008,16:56)
Ok, this is the UD thread.

The depths of Ftk's insanity is more topically plumbed in the Unreasonable Kansans thread.

I'll be doing some clean-up from the past several pages.



   
Quote
#1 Rule, by Craig Anderson

Testing teh button, teh witch be flushing herself in three...two...one...
;)

Its alive! Its aliiivvvvvve.

Date: 2008/07/11 15:11:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ July 11 2008,12:58)
A challenger appears:
   
Quote

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on morris.umn.edu and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

C’mon boys. Silence is NOT golden.



*crickets chirping*

What are we supposed to say?  That a tax supported school should not allow faculty to say things like that? Wrong.

No, PZ can say what ever he likes on his own blog. If he said some of the things he says on his blog in his classroom, I would have a problem with it as it would be "creating a hostile workplace environment."

At some point, some student might take advantage of that vunerability PZ has created for himself.

If the university wants no part of this fight, then they blank links from their official operation to PZ's "private" writing.


PS: I hope that PZ doesn't learn the hard way that I was right about Paul Mirecki. There are a lot of Catholic cops, and Lutheren.



Date: 2008/07/11 16:53:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,13:11)
well, ...

I revised my earlier opinion, and I might do it again.

What are we to say?  That a tax supported school should not allow faculty to say things like that? Wrong. Should a tax supported school say the things PZ is saying vis the Eucharist? No. They should not say this about Vishnu. They should not say this about the rituals of Chak, or the Mayan Ikesh.

No, PZ can say what ever he likes on his own blog. If he said some of the things he says on his blog in his classroom, I would have a serious problem with it as it would be "creating a hostile workplace environment."

At some point, some student might take advantage of that vunerability PZ has created for himself. If the university wants no part of this fight, then they blank links from their official operation to PZ's "private" writing.

As an anthropologist, I have attended all these sorts of rituals and more, and I found them to all be sincere expressions of the partisipants' beliefs. PZ has crossed the line between promotion of his point of view, to that of bigotry.

PS: I hope that PZ doesn't learn the hard way that I was right about Paul Mirecki. There are a lot of Catholic cops, and Lutherens too.

Date: 2008/07/11 17:10:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Nerull @ July 11 2008,14:58)
Yeah. What kind of bigots say its silly to issue death threats over a cracker. I can't believe anyone would say that. There are clearly no more important issues in the world to worry about than weather or not some student ate his magic cracker.

I think the classic lines are "But he started it!" followed by "Two wrongs don't make a right."

And then we got sent to our rooms.

Date: 2008/07/11 17:44:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Nerull @ July 11 2008,15:21)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 11 2008,18:10)
Quote (Nerull @ July 11 2008,14:58)
Yeah. What kind of bigots say its silly to issue death threats over a cracker. I can't believe anyone would say that. There are clearly no more important issues in the world to worry about than weather or not some student ate his magic cracker.

I think the classic lines are "But he started it!" followed by "Two wrongs don't make a right."

And then we got sent to our rooms.

Still waiting to hear what exactly is bigoted about it.

Buy a dictionary. Read the definition of "bigotry." Read PZ's post.

Try this: Walk into a VFW post. Go to the bar (just follow the sound of people). Drop an American flag on the floor and piss on it.

When you come to (hopfully), ask your self, "Self? Why should I be surprised I hurt so bad?"

Unless undertaken in the pure spirit of a scientific experiment in social psychology, you action would be bigorty, merely because it was to denigrate the beliefs of others.

People react to symbols and ideas as if they are real objects. The empathic response experienced (by healthy people) of wincing while watching a video of someone being injured is actually triggered by the same parts of the brain that are active when a (healthy) person is injured.  "I feel your pain" other than as a political slogan, is really sincere. TV shows like "America's Funniest Home Movies" or "Jackass" are rough indications of the number of people with psychopathic personality disorders. (It is an over estimate for several reasons).

Date: 2008/07/11 17:47:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Ya dere. Gud on ya.

Date: 2008/07/11 18:18:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 11 2008,16:10)
Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,18:31)
I'd be perfectly content if PZ would just put a visible disclaimer on his blog drawing attention to the fact that his views are his alone and not that of his place of employment.

The title of his blog:

"Pharyngula: Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal"

And you think there is some question regarding who's views his blog represents?

Well, most fundies think that public universities are all dens of satanic evilutionism already. But, it is fairly standard to state that "The opinions expressed here do not reflect the policies or opinions of my employers, the University of ...."

How hard is that?

Date: 2008/07/11 18:26:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 11 2008,16:06)
No dead trees necessary

   
Quote

Bigot

Pronunciation:
   \?bi-g?t\
Function:
   noun
Etymology:
   French, hypocrite, bigot
Date:
   1660

: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


I am not  sure irreverence to the dearly held symbols of others qualifies, at least not according to this definition.

You are not sure?

Irreverence is to ask that the Host be served with cheese whip because you hate the taste of raw meat. "Hatred and intolerance" is:  
Quote
So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart.


The first issue is that someone disrupt a church service- how about hoseing a Baptist service, they like water. And then, provide PZ with material simply to insult people.

Look, If some priest wants to test God's wrath, I'll piss on a stack of hosts. But, I'll not encourage people to trash church services or property.



Date: 2008/07/11 18:36:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,16:30)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 11 2008,18:10)
 
Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,18:31)
I'd be perfectly content if PZ would just put a visible disclaimer on his blog drawing attention to the fact that his views are his alone and not that of his place of employment.

The title of his blog:

"Pharyngula: Evolution, development, and random biological ejaculations from a godless liberal"

And you think there is some ambiguity regarding who's views his blog represents?

????

There are plenty of godless liberals teaching in our universities.  How the heck does that = a disclaimer disassociating his views with those of the University of MN?

Honestly, I don't think the University of MN has a problem with bigotry against religion.  I'm sure they've  received letters regarding his rants in the past.  

Can you imagine if his rants were focused on blacks or Jews instead of Christians?  Holy crap...shit would hit the fan!

And, all the while PZ is preaching tolerance, tolerance, tolerance...for homosexuality, for atheism, for bestiality, for abortion, etc., etc.

But, it's always open season on Christians.

Oh Bullshit FtK.  Oh the po' lil' Christian cilluns who own 90% of the public offices, and wealth of the most wealthy and frightening nation in history.

Stupido twato

(edited to correct grammar)



Date: 2008/07/11 18:44:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 11 2008,16:37)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2008,00:26)
You are not sure?

Irreverence is to ask that the Host be served with cheese whip because you hate the taste of raw meat. "Hatred and intolerance" is:    
Quote
So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart.


Now I am sure.

I am 100% certain that I consider "heinous cracker abuse" to be irreverent, clearly a turn of phrase meant to be humorous.

Edit: Edited for style.

I like PZ, even when we disagree. However, he is using his position as a minor public figure to incite people to violate religious services so that he can publicly cause pain to others (symbolic pain hurts).

I am afraid he is going to discover that I was correct in my assesment of the Mirecki case.  (Maybe he will remember that I am a professional investigator, as in paid to investigate crimes).



Date: 2008/07/11 18:48:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Ftk @ July 11 2008,16:45)

?????

I'm talking about PZ and his preaching...not the entire nation's attitude toward Christianity!

IF THAT MAN WANTS TO PREACH TOLERANCE, THEN HE HAD BETTER GOD DAMN WELL SET AN EXAMPLE OF TOLERANCE.  

GOT THAT!!!?

Fuck.  What's wrong with you?  

Crap...now you went and got me all riled up, and I'm going to have to go back to my blog and read Proverbs *again*.

How about you read the whole book starting with "When God began the Creation..." Or as mistranslated in the KJV, "In the beginning ..."

Do about one page per day, and come back when you finish.



Date: 2008/07/11 20:32:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ July 11 2008,17:15)
Are you gonna change your handle now to "Friggin' Genius"?  "Lord Lou"?  "Smarter Than A DaveScot And Nicer Too"?

Awesome to you - congrats, sorry I pooped on your parade at your site...

The print was so tiny, I couldn't read the numbers.

He passed did he?

Congratulations.



Date: 2008/07/11 20:48:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
On further reflection, I am equally disapproving that PZ has incited others to commit criminal acts.

This will not go well.

Edidted to fix some errors (becasue itz their)



Date: 2008/07/11 21:02:43, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
So, what to do. I have an idea. Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? There's no way I can personally get them — my local churches have stakes prepared for me, I'm sure — but if any of you would be willing to do what it takes to get me some, or even one, and mail it to me, I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage (no, not even if I have a choice between returning the Eucharist and watching Bill Donohue kick the pope in the balls, which would apparently be a more humane act than desecrating a goddamned cracker), but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart. If you can smuggle some out from under the armed guards and grim nuns hovering over your local communion ceremony, just write to me and I'll send you my home address.


Someone who does not have legal access to church property is requested to "score" some hosts. As I said earlier, If a priest wants to test divine wrath, I am fully willing to desecrate any host they have legal access to. But to generally broadcast that just "anyone" should try to "score ... some consecrated communion wafers" does incite people to break the law.



Date: 2008/07/11 21:44:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
How about we start a betting pool on how long it takes PZ to learn the hard way that I was correct about Mirecki?

Who ever is closest wins.

I'll start with $5 on Aug 11th.

(It was about a month before Mirecki got slapped around.)

Date: 2008/07/12 09:22:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dhogaza @ July 12 2008,01:33)
Dr. GH:
   
Quote
Someone who does not have legal access to church property is requested to "score" some hosts. As I said earlier, If a priest wants to test divine wrath, I am fully willing to desecrate any host they have legal access to. But to generally broadcast that just "anyone" should try to "score ... some consecrated communion wafers" does incite people to break the law.

Last time I looked, anyone is welcome to attend a Catholic Mass.

Which law is broken by taking a host given freely by a priest, then departing church without having eaten it?  Catholic law, perhaps, but secular law?  Can you be a bit more precise?  Is it a state law that's being broken, or a federal one?


Obviously you have not been to a Catholic Mass in a long time, if ever. A) A priest does not give a host to just anybody, or even to any Catholic. B) a Host is considered church property, C) to obtain another's property under false pretences is a crime. D) a church or temple is not public property. E) even in public property, there are legal limits as to what behaviors are allowed.

Quote (dhogaza @ July 12 2008,01:33)
Also, I notice that your posts have no disclaimer regarding the views of your employer.  Should I then presume that your view that keeping an uneaten consecrated host freely given one by a priest at a mass open to the public breaks the law is the view of your employer, too?


I am self-employed- my opinion is always the opinion of my employer.

A priest does not freely give hosts out, nor is Communion open to the public. That makes it a (minor) crime.

Quote (dhogaza @ July 12 2008,01:33)
Perhaps you should set a good example for PZM and add a disclaimer to your sig here ...

Obviously you need to grow up.

Let me ask you and anyone else- Is burning a cross on a black families lawn a "hate crime?" It has been successfuly prosecuted and people have gone to jail.

Is painting a Swastika, or writing Nazi slogans on a Temple a Hate Crime? It has been successfuly prosecuted and people have gone to jail.

The monetary value of the lawn damage, or the paint to cover the Nazi slogans, does not set the level of the crime. It is the painful emotional impact that the act caused that sets the level of the crime.

Date: 2008/07/12 09:40:35, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 12 2008,05:56)
GrannyTard wades again into the pink mist surrounding the argument that Darwinism led inexorably to the Holocaust. She quotes DI Fellow Richard Weikart, and establishes his bona fides by claiming that he "knows more than anyone alive about the  Nazis and Darwin"

Coincidentally I just finished Robert J. Richard's The Tragic Sense of Life, an historical treatment of the life of Ernst Haeckel, who is the link that Weikart proposes from Darwin to Hitler. Richards (who might even know more than Weikart about this topic) deals extensively with Weikart's thesis, and leaves it in rubble. Here's the money quote, from the last page of the book (my emphasis).    
Quote
It can only be a tendentious and dogmatically driven assessment that would condemn Darwin for the crimes of the Nazis. And while some of Haeckel's conceptions were recruited by a few Nazi biologists, he hardly differed in that respect from Christian writers, whose disdain for Jews gave considerably more support to those dark forces. One might thus recognize in Haeckel a causal source for a few lines deployed by National Socialists, but hardly any moral connection exists by which to indict him.

Richards notes that Weikart suffers from the "failing of monocausality", the search for a single, simple cause of historic events. He notes that Weikart ignores evidence, including the fact that an official Nazi document expunged from libraries the works of those scientists thought to be "traitors" (pp 446-7). The banned scientists included Einstein and Haeckel; the latter was banned because he was a scientist advocating "the superficial scientific enlightenment of a primitive Darwinism".

In other words, Weikart's work seems to be a typical DI product. Oversimplified, ignoring evidence, and driven by dogma. No wonder GrannyTard loves it.

There is another book I'll be reading.  Thanks!

I have been reading Steigmann-Gall, Richard
2003 “The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity 1919-1945” 2003 Cambridge University Press.

He also helps close the door on Weikart's argument, noting that Himmler was opposed to Haeckel's atheism. Nazi theorist Hans Schemm (Gauleiter of Beyreuth and leader of the National Socialist Teacher's League) rejected Darwin's ideas as a "political formulation of materialism."

Sounds familiar, doesn't it.

Unfortunately, Karl W. Giberson gave Weikart full marks in "Saving Darwin" and fails to have read anything on the Nazis beyond Weikart.

Date: 2008/07/12 10:14:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 12 2008,07:50)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2008,10:22)
Obviously you have not been to a Catholic Mass in a long time, if ever. A) A priest does not give a host to just anybody, or even to any Catholic. B) a Host is considered church property, C) to obtain another's property under false pretences is a crime. D) a church or temple is not public property. E) even in public property, there are legal limits as to what behaviors are allowed.

Funny, (now) slightly embarrassing story:

When I was about 21 a Catholic friend of mine was getting married, full Catholic mass, and asked me to be in the party as an usher.

I'm not Catholic. I had never attended a mass.

So there I am, sitting in the pew in my rented tux in the midst of a row of his cousins, all in tuxes, and all Catholic. I might have been stoned - I don't recall (I might have been stoned, so I don't recall). The ceremony went forward and reached the point where communion is offered. Everyone around me stood and began to file into line, including my row of cousins. I looked around. What am I supposed to do? Is it an offense to participate? Or to sit there alone?

So absolutely spur of the moment I figured I'd imitate the others. Where's the harm? No one would be the wiser, and I'm going to hell anyway. So I lined up, took note of the ritual, and prepared to imitate. There were 300 people in line behind me.  

But my friend's Italian mother, who is about 4' 8", knew I'm not Catholic. Just as I began to commit my crime she rushed over, grabbed my arm and shoved me sideways with surprising strength shouting "YOU CAN'T!!" The shove spun me around, and there I was, facing the entire congregation as her voice reverberated.  

Oddly, at the time, I wasn't at all embarrassed.  

Subsequently, no one said a word.

I was just as a funeral mass.  The priest went on and on about ecumenicalism, and every Christian being a member "of the body of Christ" and so on... They even sang some songs written by Martin Luther which cracked me up.

Then the mass is offered to "Catholics in an appropriate state of grace" (IIRC). Bwahahaha

There were very few takers.

Date: 2008/07/12 11:58:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 12 2008,09:02)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 12 2008,08:28)
ID is nothing more than a tool being used to promote social reform.

Science was never IN the building.

But that's because of the big meanie scientists, according to GilGoddidit in the first comment on Dave's poke at GrannyTard.  
Quote
The big problem is that the opposition won’t address the science, or allow the science to be addressed, no matter what.

Gil then posts a link to the Little Green Footballs thread where ID gets trashed, and the DI is labeled the "Dishonesty Institute".

Don't look now, Gil, but I can't imagine that even one of the commenters at LGF is a scientist, so how does that support your argument that the science of ID is not let into the discussion?

Actually, we did address the science, or lack of science, in ID when we wrote "Why Intelligent Design Fails." We went out of our way to avoid any of the obvious facts that IDC is merely a religious ploy, and focus purely on their so-called science.

That is why my chapter was used to trash some of Mike Behe's BS in the Dover trial, forcing Behe to whine that ID would work in science fiction movies.

Date: 2008/07/12 12:25:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 12 2008,09:26)
Both cross burning and swastika painting may be reasonably interpreted as threats, considering the historical baggage of those activities. There is nothing you can do to a wafer that compares to those activities, IMO.

Threats are assault. There is a reason that the examples I used are prosecuted as hate crimes.

Date: 2008/07/12 12:38:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ July 12 2008,08:57)
I'm sure that since you've apparently attended the Larry Fafarman School of Law, you can explain your contention that the host is still the property of the church after the priest gives it way.

Edited for clarity.

Well, I am not a lawyer, but I have been a criminal investigator. If someone enters a property to take something they have possiblly broken the law. Nobody commits a crime until a jury finds them guilty. That doesn't keep them from being locked up.

If you want to be the test case, I will watch your case with great interest.

Date: 2008/07/12 13:23:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ July 12 2008,11:14)
Wait a second, this all seems totally cracked to me.

Firstly, regardless of the rights or wrongs of PZ's comments he hasn't actually done anything or incited anyone to do anything illegal.
<snip>

Louis

Again, if you want to be the test case, I will watch your case with great interest.

Date: 2008/07/12 13:50:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
California
PENAL CODE
SECTION 240-248

240.  An assault is an unlawful attempt, coupled with a present
ability, to commit a violent injury on the person of another.

In practice, "unlawful attempt" includes threats, so that if someone were to say "I have a gun, and I'll kill you" that could constitute assault. It would not matter if you really had a gun. The point was that painting threats are prosecuted as "hate crimes" rather than simple assault becasue of the religious, or ethnic nature of the crime. It would still be a crime regardless.

Date: 2008/07/12 14:19:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I gotta go to a party- a friend just became a citizen.

Date: 2008/07/12 14:25:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I really gotta go- but

The FBI defines a hate crime (a.k.a. bias crime) to be:

       "a criminal offense committed against a person, property
        or society which is motivated, in whole or in part, by the
        offender's bias against a race, religion, disability, sexual
        orientation, or ethnicity/national origin."

HT to Mark Vandewettering at TO.

Date: 2008/07/12 19:28:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dhogaza @ July 12 2008,12:41)
BTW, "kick the cracker" will be offensive to some, but not for the reason you imagined when writing it ...

I lived in Georgia for many years.

Date: 2008/07/12 19:40:56, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (keiths @ July 12 2008,14:05)
The reaction of believers to perceived "blasphemy" or "desecration" has long fascinated me.
<snip>
Other believers might concede that their God is unharmed by blasphemy, but complain that they are personally offended by having their beliefs mocked.  To them I would point out the following:

1. Some people think your beliefs (whatever they are) are ridiculous whether they say so or not.  Get used to it.  If you interpret silence as tacit agreement, you are mistaken.

2. People have every right to believe in magic crackers, that Rev. Moon is God, that Xenu was our galactic overlord, or that John Frum will return to the islands with lots of cargo.  They don't have the right to compel the rest of us to regard these beliefs as anything but risible, or to force us to mute our disdain.

Does that distain allow you to disrupt a religious observance? Does that distain allow you to take church property?

Plus, I also wonder about the predictable reaction of believers- is it incitement to mess with their rituals?

Let's imagine that there is a child's birthday party in a public park- The family is deeply religious and they have their eyes closed in prayer.  You are more wise than they are and so you dump the birthday cake on the ground.

You get arrested.  It is as simple as that.  If you get a good ass kicking resisting arrest, few courts would probably bother prosecuting the family members.



Date: 2008/07/12 19:57:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (rhmc @ July 12 2008,17:51)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2008,20:28)
Quote (dhogaza @ July 12 2008,12:41)
BTW, "kick the cracker" will be offensive to some, but not for the reason you imagined when writing it ...

I lived in Georgia for many years.

atlanta ain't georgia.  :)

I rarely ever went to Atlanta- 3 times in 6 years.  Too bad to, it seemed like a fairly nice place. Why did you make a such a silly assumption?

Date: 2008/07/12 20:09:58, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, I think that there is an interesting contrast between Mirecki and the assault and battery I think that is waiting for PZ; Mirecki used pejorative language- he called the Catholic pope "an old guy in a dress" and said in an email (as I recall) that teaching his class on creationism and ID would be "a big slap in the fat face of the fundies." About a month later he had been demoted from Department Chair, had some of his classes canceled, and gotten slapped around on a deserted road.

That was an outrage then as it is now.

PZ has encouraged others to take actions on his request that are merely intended to outrage still others.  I think that call for actual physical action alters the entire situation.



Date: 2008/07/12 20:13:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 12 2008,17:59)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 13 2008,01:40)
Does that distain allow you to disrupt a religious observance? Does that distain allow you to take church property?

Plus, I also wonder about the predictable reaction of believers- is it incitement to mess with their rituals?

Let's imagine that there is a child's birthday party in a public park- The family is deeply religious and they have their eyes closed in prayer.  You are more wise than they are and so you dump the birthday cake on the ground.

You get arrested.  It is as simple as that.  If you get a good ass kicking resisting arrest, few courts would probably bother prosecuting the family members.

Why do you keep using these really weak analogies? Dumping a kids birthday cake on the ground != walking away with a wafer from mass (that you have been given) != burning crosses != spraying swastikas on synagogues.

The kid's cake was cheap, and they shouldn't pray when it offends you. Right? It was a public park and they were being offensive to your tender emotions. They deserved it.



Date: 2008/07/12 20:38:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ July 12 2008,18:18)
I just reviwed the  page before submitting this and badger3k seems to have got in ahead of me.  Damn you, badger.

--

Let's say there are two cakes. The cake dumped upon the ground could be shown, scientifically, to be  contaminated by real life bacteria. You could take swabs and show a difference: Germ-laden cake ....  nice cake --- not the same! You can't recommence proceedings with the contaminated cake.  You can still feed the other, pristine, cake to your guests with a clear conscience, but if one guest gleefully devours the cake, while another "saves a piece for later", you don't get to demand the death of that person.

Badger's point is much clearer.  I think the question goes to intent. What is the intent of the act.

There are some lame arguments offered that the cost of the cracker/Host is an issue.  That is stupid, as I have stated and then tried to expose by analogy. The cost of the cracker, or the singed lawn, or some paint is irrelevant.

Then there was "the burnt cross" is an implied threat. We then looked at laws on threat and definitions of hate crimes. A threat is to claim you will cause harm to someone. In extortion cases, the threat is all that is needed.  In assault cases a threat (in California) might be all that is needed. In California, there is some leeway in the law about how a threat is perceived, and what you can do about it.

I was once involved in a case where fellow A was in a fight with fellow B.  Fellow A was stabbed with a knife several times by fellow B.  Fellow B was arrested. Fellow B was found innocent because Fellow A had caused the fight by threatening fellow B. Fellow A was then arrested, and charges were dropped on 5th ammendment grounds (basicly there were no witnesses not used in the trial of B, including A, and no evidence in the trial of A could be used without self incrimination (IIRC).

Does the theft of a Host for the purpose of desecration cause emotional harm to others?

I would say it does, and that the act had no other purpose than to cause emotional suffering to others. Is emotional harm a legally recognized thing?  You talk to any lawyer.

Date: 2008/07/12 20:43:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (rhmc @ July 12 2008,18:27)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2008,20:57)
I rarely ever went to Atlanta- 3 times in 6 years.  Too bad to, it seemed like a fairly nice place. Why did you make a such a silly assumption?

most folks who claim to "have lived in georgia" actually lived in atlanta.

care to share what part of the state you resided in?

i've lived on both coasts and a bit in the middle.

Augusta.  I taught at the medical college there.  I also taught at Paine College, a private school that is a "historic Black institution," and Augusta College, the local campus of the University of Georgia.  I had an adjunct professorship at Georgia State University, but I never actually had to go there- they sent a few students to me.

Date: 2008/07/12 20:54:31, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Bravo R. Bill.

Simple empathy makes me feel some sorrow for Dembski, but more for his family.

Wouldn't it be great if Dembski's intelligence and energy were redirected from bullshit to exposing frauds that prey on the pious?  That would be a miracle.

Date: 2008/07/12 21:54:50, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ July 12 2008,19:47)
People in receipt of burning crosses, often ended up dead at the hands of the KKK.

People who found their walls daubed with Nazi symbols, often turned up dead at the hand of the Nazis.

People who found their crackers disrepected, often ended up being killed by killing, or threatening to kill their oppressors people whose "religion" is that crackers are just crackers.

The similarities are just frightening.

You know of many recent examples?

Date: 2008/07/12 21:59:34, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 12 2008,19:03)
If you still don't see the difference between burning a cross and walking away with a wafer there's really nothing I can say. What is the implied threat of the wafer scenario?

As for intent, one of the two is intended to terrorize, the other to be an asshole and possibly make some kind of point.

And what's up with the "I have seen things on the streets" shit? No amount of street cred can save a tortured analogy.

The Catholics seem to feel they are being terrorized.  You either think they have no real emotional response, or that because you have a superior grasp of reality their emotional response is unjustified.

Or maybe they have no right to have an emotional response just because ___?



Date: 2008/07/12 22:26:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 12 2008,20:13)
Agreed, he can't have the epiphany that its just part of the broader enterprise he's part of.

I used the EF.  It would take a miracle.

Date: 2008/07/12 22:30:28, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (steve_h @ July 12 2008,20:21)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 13 2008,03:54)
         
Quote (steve_h @ July 12 2008,19:47)
People in receipt of burning crosses, often ended up dead at the hands of the KKK.

People who found their walls daubed with Nazi symbols, often turned up dead at the hand of the Nazis.

People who found their crackers disrepected, often ended up being killed by killing, or threatening to kill their oppressors people whose "religion" is that crackers are just crackers.

The similarities are just frightening.

You know of many recent examples?

No I don't, unless you count the recent death threats against PZ, but I'm sure that such incidents live on in the thoughts of previous victims and the people that know them.  The symbols would be just as shocking today. I am neither a Jew nor an African-American. If such symbols have been relegated to the trashcan of history as you seem to imply, I would be delighted to hear about it. I haven't heard of any specific incidents recently but I think it would be unwise to assume that racial extremist are no longer a concern.

For the sake of argument, I will take you at your word. Cracker abuse is the last taboo. Nazis are gone, Racists are gone, but how do we handle the PZ-cracker situation? How do we, or should  we, respect the rights of people who think crackers are just crackers? I say we agree to disagree with kill them express our regret that people with similar outlooks to ours might do something we don't exactly sanction but do sort of understand.

Edited 2008-07-13

I sort of imagine something with Ritz and grape juice- but the rest of the details are murky.

Cheesewiz, there has got to be cheeswiz and big pointy hats.

Date: 2008/07/13 14:06:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Good review. I have posted a few on Amazon as well.

Date: 2008/07/13 14:09:27, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Quidam @ July 13 2008,08:24)
I'm amazed at how puny and ineffective Chistians believe their God to be.  If you truly believe that the cracker is God, then it should be perfectly capable of looking after itself and would need no help from mere mortals.

Pity the infidel who ate a genuine Jesus-inhabited cracker

Heheh

Date: 2008/07/13 14:15:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 12 2008,20:30)
I sort of imagine something with Ritz and grape juice- but the rest of the details are murky.

Cheesewiz, there has got to be cheeswiz and big pointy hats.

I got it. Wearing big pointy hats, pass out crackers with cheesewiz and grapejuice while chanting "Don't be a cannibal."

No threats, an artistic expression (depending on the big pointy hats) that clearly derides the ritual of communion.

Be my guest.

Date: 2008/07/13 14:33:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Louis @ July 13 2008,05:48)
Gary, I am very curious to know why you are chucking such a huge quantity of straw around on this issue.

Not only are the views you seem keen to attatch to others demonstrably and manifestly not the ones they are espressing, but the anecdotes, analogies and crimes you are associating with the actual events and arguments are so wide of the mark as to be almost deliberately so.

Louis

Well, there were several things about this that make me angry. First, I have a politically liberal respect for the rights of others to partisipte unmolested in the religion of their choice. Second, I have a professional respect for the rights of others to partisipte unmolested in the religion of their choice. Third, it is cowardly to ask other people to do your dirty work for you. Fourth, PZ was dismissive about the attack against Mirecki.

Finally, I presented a number of scenarios that you would agree are "bad things."  The Catholics view desecration of their ritual objects as a bad thing, on a par with the things I have mentioned. You (and the rest) deny they have valid emotions which is dehumanizing. You deny that they have a right to their practice unmolested and that it is fine to threaten them with the disruption of their religious practice.  That makes you a bigot.



Date: 2008/07/13 16:22:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (rhmc @ July 13 2008,14:15)
i fail to see how making fun of catholics and their closely held beliefs is any worse (or any better) than making fun of IDiots and their closely held beliefs.

perhaps the joke was taken a bit further than necessary but quite honestly, a lot of religious beliefs are held up to ridicule on many threads in this forum.

I think it is fine and dandy to ridicule people for believing absurd things. It is rude, and generally unnecessary, but it is certainly First Amendment protected speech.

In the case of ID and creationism in general, they are trying to inflict their beliefs on the public, and use legal tricks to do it. That is a violation of the Constitution.

Date: 2008/07/13 19:03:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Orange Coast College CA is a 2 year school.  The 'highest' degree offered is an Associate of Arts.

Date: 2008/07/14 13:05:07, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (George @ July 14 2008,10:52)
PPS  As a native of Tennessee, I also thought "kick the cracker" referred to Georgians before I started reading the content of this thread.

It is a pun. Having lived in Georgia some years, I qualify as a honorary" cracker." Although, more than one friend said, "Are you sure you aren't 'passin'?" or words to that effect. So the racist undertone, and the fact that I am fully aware that my opinion is opposed by PZ's fanclub (and that they would not look in the mirror), and that the last host I ever saw as a Christian (~40? years ago) was literally a soda cracker, made the title inevitable.

Date: 2008/07/15 20:13:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I get to watch.

Date: 2008/07/16 17:26:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"The Tragic Sense of Life" was delivered today along with "The Flood."  The latter, originally published the same year as I was, in 1951), was written by Alfred Rehwinkel, a Lutheran.  He gives a profuse acknowledgement to Seventh Day Adventist "Dr." George McCready Price, whom he called "a noted geologist." Price completed a single year course in "education" which was the sum total of his "scientific" training.  So I look forward to mainline creatotard.

I will be particularly interested in comparing this with the classic, "The Genesis Flood."

Date: 2008/07/16 17:47:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Who the hell is "sex-porn-lesbian" and why don't they post videos?

Quote
63 guests, 17 Public Members and 2 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Dr.GH >sex-porn-lesbian >Ftk >Reed >raguel >Reciprocating Bill >simmi >dnmlthr >Albatrossity2 >Venus Mousetrap >Lou FCD >UnMark >Zachriel >dheddle >Lowell >ppb >creeky belly

Date: 2008/07/16 19:04:09, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (drew91 @ July 16 2008,16:58)
Shubin's book won't take you very long.  It's excellent, but very short. (~200 pages)

Yeah, I really enjoyed it too.

Date: 2008/07/17 12:54:21, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 16 2008,18:01)
Quote (SoonerintheBluegrass @ July 16 2008,20:16)
Longtime lurker, first time caller.  I humbly submit . . .  Can we change this thread name to "Crackers Don't Matter"?

(I love that episode, and it's so apropos)

Hi SoonerintheBluegrass.  Glad you've started posting.

We'll wait and see what Dr. GH says.  It's his thread, and I don't wanna step on his toes.  I like him a lot, and I don't want him mad at me.

I hear he eats people on his shit list.  He even has blog named "Stones and Bones".  (It should be in your feed reader if it's not already.)  If that don't put the fear of the FSM in you, I don't know what will.

But if he's all good with it, then I'm all good with it.

Fine with me. I am going on the ocean tonight into the weekend to kill things. Grrrr

Date: 2008/07/17 13:00:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ July 17 2008,10:54)
The penultimate page.

I am going on the ocean tonight to hopefully kill innocent creatures. If I miss it, hurray for the 1000th page.

Date: 2008/07/17 16:22:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I have not left yet. But I will soon. Leave. For the boat that I am going on. To fish. Later today.

Date: 2008/07/17 16:24:53, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Have you ever looked at people's "join date?" I mean really looked?

Date: 2008/07/17 16:26:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (EyeNoU @ July 17 2008,14:24)
Dr. GH, which ocean are you fishing?

The Pacific. Probably ~150 SSW of San Diego Cal.

Date: 2008/07/17 16:27:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 17 2008,14:24)
Have you ever looked at people's "join date?" I mean really looked?

Sometimes I devide the number of posts by how long people have been registered.

That is probably highly significant somehow.

Date: 2008/07/17 16:33:40, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Missed it by // Chief.

YEA 1000, !0^3 WOO WOO.



Date: 2008/07/19 11:39:00, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Yesterday’s fishing disadventure turned into a $250 marine mammal cruise. The conditions were perfect with the only problem a full moon. But the marine layer was very thick, and when I went on deck at 11PM, and 3AM, it was very dark. We set out lines at ~ 4:30 and the next 6 hours saw nothing but lots of water. We started fishing about 65 miles SSW of San Diego in an area that was holding fish. There were about 10 purse seiners in the area, two of them had deployed their nets. We worked a temperature break between the outer NW swell ~66F, and the south dominated inner water ~70F. The marine layer stayed solid all day. Clean water, 10 to 15 knot NW winds, plenty of flying fish. Everything was perfect- except no tuna. About 12 Noon, a tiny albacore committed suicide on a trolling feather. We let the youngest kid on-board reel it in. This was the sixth time I have not caught tuna on a targeted trip. (Sea Horse, Cherokee Geisha, Sea Horse, Admiral, Doctors Orders, and now the Pacific Star) Two trips went into gales with high seas, one I had been sick and stayed in my bunk. The trip on the Cherokee Geisha was the weirdest- people who couldn’t tie on their own hooks caught tuna but I couldn’t even get a bite.

But, we did see several pods of Dall’s porpoise who put on some great aerial displays as well as some their larger cousins, the common porpoise. The first whales we saw were two finback calves and an adult (?) mother. The adult was ~70 feet long, the light colored calves ~20-30. About 20 miles south of San Diego, just north of the Coronado Islands, we started seeing blue whales. In all we saw 7, one solo, a pair, and a quartet.



Date: 2008/07/19 12:15:01, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Apology? You want an Apology?

Date: 2008/07/19 13:42:47, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I had missed this Canadian review.

Quote
Assembled by Nathan Frankowski, who did some Bush-lionizing on The Path to 9/11, this journey into ignorance is hosted by Ben Stein, a former Nixon speechwriter whose deadpan face was introduced in Ferris Bueller’s Day Off.

Date: 2008/07/19 15:20:45, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 18 2008,19:59)
And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

I found that Baby Wipes (eg brand-name "Huggies") took good care of most wash-up needs in extended dry camps. They had the advantage of not wasting water, and burning quite nicely when they had dried out- making a good fire tinder and cutting down on site waste. I would take 500 sheets /10 crew members /2 weeks. Stinking clothes were still a problem. In a dry camp, I had my crew use a basin of clean water to rinse soap from dishes. (Two crew / 10 stayed in camp each day on a cleaning detail and also to get some rest). After the dishes were done, they would use the rinse water for washing out socks, etc...

I suspect you are better funded than we were.

Date: 2008/07/19 22:09:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (silverspoon @ July 19 2008,17:22)

For those who were wondering, "Where do I find my wonderful wife?"

Date: 2008/07/19 22:33:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was lead on a desert archaeology survey. We were documenting a 520 acre section with several ceremonial and village sites.  With little to no soil building for the last 1,200 years, and a very fragile soil, we obviously couldn’t camp too near any specific job site.

Every 6 days, my crew supposedly washed out a week's worth of socks, and underwear as part of their camp detail. We could only fund about 4 weeks per year, and so the project took about ~5 years. I have seen several field projects collapse due to hepatitis, or just plain drunkenness. I always run field work with careful attention to the “hotel” aspect as well as the science.

If you need a rather well-worn crewman who is a great camp cook, make an offer. (Anything is better than finishing this book!)

Date: 2008/07/21 11:35:42, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote
Alleging that a Peer of the Realm violated scientific peer review - when in fact Lord Monckton had spent substantial effort responding to the APS’s peer review - is just not done!


What? What does being "a Peer of the Realm" have to do with anything? We had a revolution to make that point clear over 200 years ago. I guess if you are a Dominionist, God sanctioned nobility equals scientific accuity.

Date: 2008/07/22 20:51:23, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Oh thank-you thou mighty stream of creatotard- For I had believed not that the flow might continue, But, more! The flow doth increase and the tard bounty grows thick and deep.

Date: 2008/07/24 21:04:08, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Well, I suffer from liberal guilt.  Paul did finally pony-up with a review copy of EE, and I promised to review it.

I have stalled at page 22.

I have read eight or so books in the mean time, but I just have a block about EE. Some of those 8 have been creationist BS, so that is not the whole problem.

Date: 2008/07/26 13:54:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I am fairly confident that PNAS will publish asshat's letter.  How better expose his ignorance and arrogance?

They apparently have banned anyone with half a dozen working neurons, so they get what they have strived to achive- total stupidhood.

Date: 2008/07/26 13:57:41, Link
Author: Dr.GH
h'b'd'  :D

Date: 2008/07/26 14:19:29, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ July 24 2008,19:09)
Do you have any thoughts about why you hit a wall with it?

Interesting question.

From page 16 to 21 the "case for" fossils succession is supposedly presented. On page 22 they begin their case against. The "case for" was biased in its presentation, and their reply is simply 14 pages of lies. The rest of the book, based on spot checks, maintains this ratio of 4 biased "proscience" pages  to 14 pages of creationist lies supposedly presenting "... the most qualified proponents and critics that we could."

If Paul Nelson could have signed on to these lies (and he did), then there is no point what-so-ever to expect him to honest about anything.

It is depressing.

Date: 2008/07/26 22:25:52, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (afarensis @ July 26 2008,20:09)
Quote
Were you classmates with Barney Rubble?


What, are you gay? I went to school with Betty and Wilma (the stories I could make up - er - tell about them).

I have a friend who's mother was the voice actor for Wilma, various insidental females and BamBam.

Even better, his brother, ordinarily a film editor, was credited with the fart noises in "Blazing Saddles."  If only Dr.Dr.D had sought out professional help in time.

Date: 2008/07/28 00:52:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (stevestory @ July 27 2008,16:04)
Quote
The Prescribed Evolutionary Hypothesis is a carefully crafted scientific alternative to Darwinism developed by renowned biologist John A Davison. It is an extension of Intelligent Design and states that "the information for organic evolution has somehow been predetermined in the evolving genome in a way comparable to the way in which the necessary information to produce a complete organism is contained within a single cell." [1] The theory has been published in the peer review journal Rivista di Biologia [2]

Linky

I'll be fucked until I am blue- they are charging down the same intellectual deadends as ARN, UD, and TelicThought.

This is great! Just great.

Date: 2008/07/28 01:03:15, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (KCdgw @ July 27 2008,17:12)
Quote (keiths @ July 09 2008,22:52)
She also considers herself an expert in consciousness studies, with predictable results.

 
Not to mention being a science journalist for 20 years, which of course also makes her an expert in mammalogy and primate vision.

KC

Well anybody with tits is an expert at mammabamadingdog, or what ever.

And I find that the more into fatty tissue and milk ducts someone is the dumber they are. Some oncologists excepted.

Date: 2008/07/28 01:08:46, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Maya @ July 27 2008,13:12)
*blush*  Thanks!

PS:  As a rule I don't boink in public.

Hey! Public boinking will either make you rich, satisfied, or arrested. Or some combination of all three.

Date: 2008/07/29 17:27:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was a college professor, and I might be one again someday. If I could show even a medium scale miracle, say water into grapejuice, I would never need to work again. If I could show that evolution was bunkum, or that the earth was merely 6,000 years old- I would never need to work again.

This "cover-up" tale is such bullshit that it is hard to imagine people actually using it. But that is what the creationists do everyday.

Date: 2008/07/29 23:30:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
"Twisted Cross: The German Christian Movement in the Third Reich" by Doris L. Bergen (1996, University of N. Carolina Press) arrived today. I am getting tired of reading about Nazi Christians, and this should be more than enough to finish my review/refutation of Weikart. My German is slowly coming back, so all was not wasted.

Date: 2008/08/06 17:50:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (J-Dog @ Aug. 06 2008,06:41)
Thanks.  I must have read too much Sherlock Holmes when I was a kid - The Adventure Of The Speckled Band stuck with me.

Wasn't that a Fer-de-Lance?

Date: 2008/08/07 08:46:36, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (angst @ Aug. 06 2008,23:11)
Quote
Anyway i think the discussions here have come to a dead point, so i think it would be good if you make up your mind to send the letter." Agreed 100%, if the letter isn't "near enough" right now then it will never be.--Toffeeman 15:20, 3 August 2008 (EDT)


   
Quote
Agreed. Pull the trigger and see whose foot gets shot.--Argon 10:23, 4 August 2008 (EDT)


I predict a self inflicted wound.

That could be fatal for Andy, his feet rarely leave his mouth.

Date: 2008/08/07 17:34:17, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (khan @ Aug. 07 2008,15:30)
I'm female, but everyone assumes I'm male.

So is Deadman. IIRC

Date: 2008/08/07 18:27:05, Link
Author: Dr.GH
[quote=Tulle,Aug. 07 2008,16:08]
Quote (Maya @ Aug. 07 2008,16:21)
 
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Aug. 07 2008,14:48)

Then again, maybe we are smarter.   :D

Women are smarter than men (generally), but gay men are smarter than women, but lesbians are smarter than gay men.

That's my story (no not steve) and I'm sticking to it.

Ha! I am so smart that gay cheezy mesomorphodyke poof eaters think I am a lesbian!

And besides, I wasn't even near the joint.



Date: 2008/08/07 18:30:22, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Tulle @ Aug. 07 2008,16:21)
Oh yea, before I forget. That was my first post, but I've been reading this and the pervious thread like forever!!!!!!1111oneone

So I know all of you, but you do not know me.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!

I've even framed Louis' sexy pictures. (well not really, but gotta keep you all on your toes)

I'm not much good on biological tard (although I have become addicted to it), but might be able to help out with computer or physics tard.

I decided to start posting so I can one day get the edit button. My life long dream!!!!!1111one

Ha back!

I have a very manly (mannshaft, nicht weichlich) and fully functional edit button that I can press frequently, even in the cold.


Again and again



Date: 2008/08/07 20:48:24, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Aug. 07 2008,17:50)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Aug. 07 2008,17:34)
 
Quote (khan @ Aug. 07 2008,15:30)
I'm female, but everyone assumes I'm male.

So is Deadman. IIRC


As soon as I get rid of the troublesome penis and testes.

I shall be a morphodyke.

Well, you are still better looking than DO'L.

Date: 2008/08/09 15:21:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I was on the ocean yesterday, and had some Delicious results.



This was a 10 lb male dorado.



This was a 25 lb male Albacore Tuna. (The dog's name is Yoggie).

The fishing was slow over all. I only lost one fish (a larger albacore) when my reel momentarily locked up. We caught 11 albacore, 2 Yellowfin Tuna, 2 Yellowtail jack, and 41 dorado for 32 people fishing. Mine was the largest dorado, with the majority barely over 3 lbs. (I had a several of those but released them). The per pound cost of the meat was still well above market, 15 lbs of trimed meat for ~$300.  The local fish market charges $10.

Date: 2008/08/10 12:32:04, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Lou FCD @ Aug. 10 2008,08:20)
Quote
Wildlife: What's in your backyard?
Fire ants in my cousin's back yard, and I now have intimate knowledge of them.

Bastards.

OUCH!

Sorry to hear that.

Date: 2008/08/10 12:35:54, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 10 2008,06:37)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Aug. 09 2008,19:26)
U.K. Sociologist Steve Fuller (University of Warwick), pictured below:

*ahem*  

Fuller is a Yank - he just resides in Britain.

Yeah, Fuller is the backwash of the brain drain.

Date: 2008/08/10 19:34:33, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (afarensis @ Aug. 10 2008,09:27)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 10 2008,08:37)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Aug. 09 2008,19:26)
U.K. Sociologist Steve Fuller (University of Warwick), pictured below:

*ahem*  

Fuller is a Yank - he just resides in Britain.

Reminds me of an old saying "Possession is 9/10th's of the law" and right now the Brits posses him, and they are welcome to him.  :D

I hope they don't get an exorcist to send him back home.

Date: 2008/08/11 13:46:51, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (dogdidit @ Aug. 11 2008,11:07)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Aug. 11 2008,12:21)
As glad as I am to spread the warm fuzzies, you should send your thanks to Barbara Forrest

         
Quote
During her testimony the defense would again ask the court to exclude Forrest from testifying as expert witness. Judge Jones allowed them to present their case for dismissing her and then denied their request. Forrest would go on to testify on the religious origins and nature of the intelligent design movement, the wedge document, and also demonstrated that the drafts of the textbook at the center of the court case Of Pandas and People, substituted terms such as "intelligent design" and "intelligent designer" in place of "creationism" and "creator" in an attempt to circumvent the ruling in the Edwards v. Aguillard which determined that teaching creationism in public schools violated the Establishment Clause of the United States constitution. Her testimony had a significant impact on Judge Jones's decision.[7]

Good point. Actually, I read most of the KvD transcripts this past March, including Barbara Forrest's testimony. Debunking Pandas and exposing it's blantantly creationist origins was a fine accomplishment. Nothing so satisfying as exposing lying liars. I just didn't know about the "cdesign proponentsists" thingie (what we call a "paste-o").

@ LCD:
Ed, I salute your intellectual journey. When you first posted here I was rude to you, and that was wrong (on, well, several counts). I owe you an apology, and I hope you can accept it. I also wish you well for your search for answers, here and elsewhere.

I asked Nick Matzke why they didn't use "cdesign proponentsists." He answered that it would have been pouring salt on the wound when the wound was decapitation.

Date: 2008/08/18 22:40:20, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 18 2008,16:14)
Science fiction writers have populated Jupiter with balloon critters.

There were going to be some in the movie 2001 -- they're in the book -- but the movie got shortened and the Jupiter critters got edited into the LSD/wormhole scene.

Start here and read until, "Science fiction movies are not science, are they, Professor Behe?"

I have been suprised, and disapointed that some philosophers have drug Sherlock Holmes into discussions of deduction, and fantasy novels into theology.

What crap!

Date: 2008/08/19 16:48:26, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (deadman_932 @ Aug. 19 2008,14:31)
Tee Hee.

A real journalist at the Calgary Herald smacked Granny Badwitch ...er...Dense O'Leary...around  so she linked her latest pile of steaming O'Leary to his blog entry.
Amusingly, she called on her tardlets to defend her there.

Jerry Bergman, the YEC with a handful of suspect degrees who got busted for lying about his credentials showed up, along with some of the other usual suspects.

Quite a hoot.

When I was first exposed to granny spice, I thought that she was a group entity. I refered to "it" in a PT post as a creationist "pustule."

As I recall, much gnashing and frothing ensued.  I tried to point out that I had meant the collective ID creationist slimeballs.

Years later I realized that it was DoL all alone all the while.

Oh well.

Date: 2008/08/21 12:12:02, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Aug. 21 2008,07:42)
What, a dozen blogs of continuous "buy-my-book"-ing doesn't work? Shocking.

"Why Intelligent Design Fails" (paperback) is #349,607 in Books.

It has been out for over 2 years. (The hardcover is out of print).



Date: 2008/08/21 20:26:06, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I think that this needs its own thread.

Date: 2008/08/23 09:44:32, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Brava ladies, brava.

I was reminded of a story I heard about Albert Einstein. He suspected that his landlady was using tablescraps for her stew, so he labled a piece of meat, and brought a geiger counter to table the next day. (Details may be off)

Date: 2008/08/23 10:47:49, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Aug. 23 2008,08:37)
Quote (PTET @ Aug. 23 2008,11:26)
     
Quote
Sorry if I’m offending anyone but these people disgust me. They’re all like “I believe in rational inquiry, science, and bearded thunderers who live in the sky and worry about my immortal soul”. Please. Choose one or the other but not both.

Hasn't the bolded been WAD's posture throughout?

That is a great reply to D'Tard.

Date: 2008/08/24 19:04:14, Link
Author: Dr.GH
neener neener neener

Happy B'day

Date: 2008/08/24 23:09:25, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Physicalist @ Aug. 24 2008,20:38)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 24 2008,22:27)
I lasted six posts on UD. My only claim to fame is that my posts got the attention of Patrick hisself.

I don't know who Patrick is, but he writes like Behe.

Six!  That's pretty good.  I only lasted two.  A mere 49 words, plus a brief quotation.

Wimps. I cannot even register. The time I tried D'Tard sent me an Email that said, "You must be kidding," or words to that effect.

I don't use pseudonyms anymore (I don't think that anyone does not associate "DrGH" with my phonebook name.)

Date: 2008/08/24 23:14:18, Link
Author: Dr.GH
Quote (Physicalist @ Aug. 24 2008,20:51)
Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 24 2008,22:48)
Banned by Patrick at OE: common, he goes (or used to go) to OE fairly frequently

I expect I'll regret asking this, but what is OE?

OE is overwhelming evidence

You had to ask, now you have to look. It will drive their hit count to the roof.

Date: 2008/08/28 14:28:55, Link
Author: Dr.GH
The afore mentioned morons have a website, Their insert for highschool biology text books has these knee-slappers"

 
Quote
1.      What scientific evidence is there to show intelligent life started from dead matter?

2.      How can Darwinian evolution be considered a fact when not a single example of macroevolution exists?                        

3.      If we deny a universal flood, how did marine fossils get to the tops of all the mountains?

4.      Since we all have the same scientific facts, shouldn’t Christian interpretations be discussed as well as atheist interpretations?  Shouldn’t truth be our goal?  


They have a unique definition of "macroevolution" that is outstandingly stupid even for creationists:

 
Quote
Macroevolution (p370), or Darwinian evolution, is a change to a higher species, due to genetic information being introduced that did not come from either parent. The Darwinian evolution belief is based on the assumption of many thousands of undirected, chance cases of macroevolution. Not one proven case of macroevolution has ever occurred. The failure to clearly identify microevolution and macroevolution is a critical error in this book.  Numerous examples of microevolution are presented as merely evolution thus falsely implying evidence for macroevolution.  


They are quite clear as to their goals;

 
Quote
1.      Since all efforts in the schools would be voluntary and led by students, we would not expect any court challenges initially.

2.      We would expect considerable publicity even after we get just one student to volunteer the message. We could expect challenges eventually from the ACLU and others, even some churches.

3.      A few successes in even small schools would generate favorable publicity far beyond the school’s importance and give credibility to our efforts in larger schools.

4.      We pray that our efforts  break the back of the Darwinian evolution lock on our public schools and our scientific establishments.


The remaining question is, Can this level of stupid be a threat to reality based education?


They do have a special message for the Discovery Instutute,

Quote
All living species, especially at the microscopic level, prove they are irreducibly complex (p130) and therefore there must have been an intelligent designer. . The intelligent designer would necessarily be God. Atheists and Secular Humanists deny this and they are entitled to their opinion, however the Christian belief in God and the six day creation also has a right to be presented.




Date: 2008/08/28 15:58:37, Link
Author: Dr.GH
I wrote in reply,

Quote
The “CREATION & EVOLUTION STUDIES MINISTRY” is apparently the invention of William Nowers, who has self-published a book he claims is “A clear and convincing denial of Darwinian evolution.” In this, Mr. Nowers stands at the end of a long line of people who have announced their refutation of evolution. It is even a longer line of failures than the line of people who think they have disproven Einstein.

His ministry also claims, “Our goal is to further the Christian influence in our society and especially in the public schools and in our scientific establishments. (cesministry.org)”

Since America is one of the most Christian dominated nations in the world, he will have to work hard to find some gap to exploit. If Nowers were serious about being a Christian influence on the scientific academies, he would start by not making foolish mistakes. Imagine taking your car in to be serviced and insisting that it needs more incense, or that the gas tank needed fresh power crystals?  Your mechanic would merely laugh at you behind your back. Nowers, if attended to at all, will only incline scientists to dismiss his Christian faith as simple ignorance. Thomas Aquinas warned about this over 700 years ago when he wrote that, ”… since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false, lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing.  Summa Theological (1273)” Similar warning is found in the writing of Christian father Augustine of Hippo well over 1600 years ago.

Christians confused about the compatibility of faith and science w