carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:06    Since Bob O'H named the previous thread after his house pet feline overlord, I figure I can get away with naming the next after Foster, a dearly loved and missed dog.  He was a better person than most people who legitimately are classified as homo sapien, especially a fair number of those retrograde knotheads over at UD. Too maudlin? -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:08    Shroedinger's Dog: Quote Ras + Louis = Catfight! Enjoy the video. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,21:26    Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2011,03:08) Shroedinger's Dog:   Quote Ras + Louis = Catfight! Enjoy the video. Thank you. I shall now make a joke about what you do to horses, as is customary. Tradition must be preserved. Louis -------------- Bye.

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,23:02    From UDT III:   Quote Patrick:   Quote Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 31 2011,11:01) If KF is engaged in politicking and appears in public places, his image is fair game. Besides, doesn't he approve of outing when it's someone else? Why yes, he does! It's the asymmetry that justifies his hypocrisy, you see. That being said, I do agree with Louis* that compiling dossiers on the UD denizens borders on creepy stalker behavior.  Gentlemen don't read each other's mail, and all that. * Is that a bannable offense here? After having been banned at UD upon Kairosfocus request for linking to one of his own web pages that displayed his real name I think is fair to use the later. Especially, since he used at least one other name (dictionary). In addition, he still signs his comments as GEM. ETA: BTW, his old The Kairos Focus pages he links to from his new blog under the title The Fullness Focus reference site still displays the following Quote This web page was created by Gordon Mullings; all rights reserved . Thus, using his real name canot be classified as outing, IMO. Although I think KF is either hysterical or just playing the upset I think his relatives should not get involved in these issues. OTH, if he mentions his wife in his posts it is fair to cite this fact in comments. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2011,23:20    Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 31 2011,21:06) Since Bob O'H named the previous thread after his house pet feline overlord, I figure I can get away with naming the next after Foster, a dearly loved and missed dog.  He was a better person than most people who legitimately are classified as homo sapien, especially a fair number of those retrograde knotheads over at UD. Too maudlin? Not in the slightest.  Foster looks to be a fine fellow, a canine superior in every way to the asinine at UD. This is another thing I hold against the UD version of Christianity:  a heaven which does not admit loyal companions like your Foster or my Sam can do without me as well.  Not that there is much chance of me getting there even if it does exist.

MichaelJ Posts: 462 Joined: June 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,00:36    Don't you just love that brand new thread smell.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,05:12    ftk mode on:   Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,21:26)     Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2011,03:08) Shroedinger's Dog:         Quote Ras + Louis = Catfight! Enjoy the video. Thank you. I shall now make a joke about what you do to horses, as is customary. Won't anybody think of the gerbils?

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,05:50    Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,15:46) Ahhhh /b/. Yes Patrick, I'm well aware of /b/ I'm sure you either stumbled upon it accidentally or clicked a link sent by a malicious prankster and, in either case, quickly closed that browser window.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,07:33    Quote (MichaelJ @ Sep. 01 2011,01:36) Don't you just love that brand new thread smell. um yes sorry about that my tummy is still hurting a bit from the last thread -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,07:34    Louis said, through twisted knickers Quote expressing mild disagreement/having a discussion =/= getting knickers in a knot. oh come now you know that is EXACTLY LITERALLY PRECISELY THE SAME THING YOU EVEN SPELL IT THE SAME WAY -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

k.e.. Posts: 5427 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,08:19    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Sep. 01 2011,15:33) Quote (MichaelJ @ Sep. 01 2011,01:36) Don't you just love that brand new thread smell. um yes sorry about that my tummy is still hurting a bit from the last thread HAH. YOU KNOW THE FIRST FEW PINTS OUT OF THE KEG ARE A BIT WATERY. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,11:28    Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 01 2011,04:12) Won't anybody think of the gerbils? Why, are they attacking somebody?

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,13:04    Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 01 2011,11:50) Quote (Louis @ Aug. 31 2011,15:46) Ahhhh /b/. Yes Patrick, I'm well aware of /b/ I'm sure you either stumbled upon it accidentally or clicked a link sent by a malicious prankster and, in either case, quickly closed that browser window. Nope. I went there on purpose as part of an educational tour of the internet. All very proper and above board. Very educational too. Very. Educational. Louis -------------- Bye.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,15:19    Darwin still failing at UD: Quote Next: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals All posts in this series: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals 2007: Darwinist efforts to stifle the ID community are failing 2008: Lots of people doubt Darwin that you didn’t think would, and are not afraid to say so 2009: The modern (neo-Darwinian) synthesis is – safely – admitted to be fading 2010: Layer on layer of intricacy outstrips Darwinian just-so stories http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....e-years http://chem.tufts.edu/Answers....se.html -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,19:02    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 01 2011,21:19) Darwin still failing at UD:   Quote Next: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals All posts in this series: 2006: Dissent from Darwin is becoming more open among professionals 2007: Darwinist efforts to stifle the ID community are failing 2008: Lots of people doubt Darwin that you didn’t think would, and are not afraid to say so 2009: The modern (neo-Darwinian) synthesis is – safely – admitted to be fading 2010: Layer on layer of intricacy outstrips Darwinian just-so stories http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....e-years http://chem.tufts.edu/Answers....se.html 2007: Quote Quote The top intelligent design book honors for 2007 goes to Michael Behe’s Edge of Evolution [bla bla bla] The “edge” of evolution, a line that defines the border between random and non-random mutation, lies very far from where Darwin pointed. Behe argues convincingly that most of the mutations that have defined the history of life on earth have been non-random. Most Darwinist response is ill-informed attacks and cries of “Darwindunit!” when it was plentifully obvious that Darwin didn’t do it. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2011,23:49    Thylacine sighting at UD.   I remember that some bigtime ID evolution critic displayed two pictures of a thylacine, one reversed and desaturated, to illustrate some creationist falsehood a few years ago.  Anybody remember who that was?  Was that Cornelius Hunter?

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,02:31    Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 01 2011,23:49) Thylacine sighting at UD.   I remember that some bigtime ID evolution critic displayed two pictures of a thylacine, one reversed and desaturated, to illustrate some creationist falsehood a few years ago.  Anybody remember who that was?  Was that Cornelius Hunter? Yes, indeed.  See Wesley's brilliant take on it. It's still up-to-date because Corny didn't change a bit since then. ETA: -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:03    Thanks.  That restores my faith in ID/Creationism.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:35    Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles: It goes on but.... -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:43    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,12:35) Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles: It goes on but.... He truly is a deeply lovely human being. Hmmmm. Wait. Lovely is the same as odious right? Louis -------------- Bye.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,06:49    At least he doesn't poison the atmosphere. Is there a link for that, or at least a thread title? -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:02    The funny thing is that Christian churches protect pedophiles and actually keep them on the payroll, without denying them access to their prey. The occasional voice of protest echos in the cathedral. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:05    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,12:35) Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles: It goes on but.... [URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-universe-is-too-big-too-old-and-too-cruel-three-silly-objections-to-cosmological-fine- tuning-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-398071]Again[/URL]. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:22    I'm feeling much better now: Quote Now, since I have you on the line, let me ask you to consider a wild scenario regarding all those babies Yahweh had the Israelites kill: what if you came to know with metaphysical certainty that the consciousness inhabited by each one of those poor little babies was actually something akin to a Hitler or Stalin in a former incarnation on a different planet? How would that color your view about their being killed in such a manner by the Israelites during their incarnation on this planet? Edit to add: I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives. Freaking amazing what that site tolerates and doesn't tolerate. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:35    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,06:49) At least he doesn't poison the atmosphere. Is there a link for that, or at least a thread title? Click on the image itself. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,07:48    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,13:22) I'm feeling much better now:   Quote Now, since I have you on the line, let me ask you to consider a wild scenario regarding all those babies Yahweh had the Israelites kill: what if you came to know with metaphysical certainty that the consciousness inhabited by each one of those poor little babies was actually something akin to a Hitler or Stalin in a former incarnation on a different planet? How would that color your view about their being killed in such a manner by the Israelites during their incarnation on this planet? Edit to add: I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives. Freaking amazing what that site tolerates and doesn't tolerate. Yeah but we tolerate Teh Gayz which makes us atheists as bad as paedophiles sooper secret agenda paedophile apologists paedophiles on a daily basis. HTH, HAND. Louis -------------- Bye.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,08:22    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2011,13:22) I'm somewhat interested in how one can be guilty simple by thinking bad thoughts in utero. Not to mention the inheritance of guilt from past lives. Isn't the inheritance of guilt a central belief of Christianity? We are all fallen sinners and such? And punishment of the children for the sins of their fathers. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:30    Quote   Quote Here’s morality in a nutshell: What hurts or harms sentient organisms is bad. Deliberately or carelessly doing needless bad things is evil. You’re irrationally borrowing your moral concepts from religion, Dmullenix. As an atheist, your starting point is: Quote The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference. Now, kindly explain where morality fits into that unavoidable component of the atheistic worldview. I don't get it. The universe might show nothing but blind, pitiless indifference, but humans are clearly not indifferent. Humans have empathy, they care for their children, they're able to reflect about their actions and how these might affect others. That's a pretty good basis for developing morality, IMO. I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:39    Quote Humans have empathy It's a trait that varies in strength, just like any other trait. It's fun, although probably not instructive, to speculate on whether the mix of empathetic and non-empathetic individuals helps a population survive. Formal morality and law is obviously a way of coping with non-empathetic people. In some sense, that's what defines original sin. Lack of empathy. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:53    markf ftw: Quote One way of looking at this. If ID can only measure its progress through objections to “Darwinism” then how is progress in ID different from progress in any other creationist movement such as AIG? Not even UD can spin ID's "achievements" over the past five years any better than that.

noncarborundum Posts: 320 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,09:57    Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,09:30) I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture. At least for now you do.  But just wait for the new austerity measures that are just around the corner. -------------- "The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:08    My heat went out a few years ago. I live in Florida, but it still gets below freezing several times a year. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:21    Quote (noncarborundum @ Sep. 02 2011,15:57)   Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,09:30) I also observe that the universe is pretty dark, cold, and mostly empty, and I still have lights, a heating system, and furniture. At least for now you do.  But just wait for the new austerity measures that are just around the corner. I'll fight for my couch to the death! OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs* since approximately 1995, so they don't get me there ;) * Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned). -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,10:52    Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21) [SNIP] OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs* [SNIP] * Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned). ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!! Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not. And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis. [/Daily Mail and/or my mother] Louis ETA: How did I do? -------------- Bye.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:04    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,16:52)   Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21) [SNIP] OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs* [SNIP] * Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned). ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!! Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not. And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis. [/Daily Mail and/or my mother] Louis ETA: How did I do? Pretty good, but you forgot that it's a conspiracy by Osram and Philipps to monopolise the market*, that energy saving bulbs are actually WORSE for the environment, and that they lead to depression. ETA: * which nicely fits in with the communist etc. plot to take money from the rich. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:08    Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,11:04) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,16:52)   Quote (JLT @ Sep. 02 2011,16:21) [SNIP] OTOH, I'm using energy saving bulbs* [SNIP] * Since yesterday, 60-watt bulbs are banned in all countries of the European union (100-watt and 75-watt bulbs were already banned). ZOMG SOCIALISM!!!!!!!! Energy saving bulbs are wicked and evil and do not represent proper/Jesus'/American/British/Whatever bulbs that have been around forever since Adam made them in the Garden of Eden and these new bulbs give you cancer and are due to that fake global warming stuff which is a communist, atheist, gay, leftie, black, tree hugger plot made to take money from rich, white people (who are the best at everything ever and deserve to be by divine/biological/both right) and you can't tell me that's not true because old bulbs give better light and it's not entirely subjective at all oh no it's not. And they lower house prices and encourage dirty dirty immigrants who are now white, but speak funny, which makes us confused because we can't call them pakis. [/Daily Mail and/or my mother] Louis ETA: How did I do? Pretty good, but you forgot that it's a conspiracy by Osram and Philipps to monopolise the market, that energy saving bulbs are actually WORSE for the environment, and that they lead to depression. Don't forget the mercury... won't someone think of the egrets? -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:12    {Facepalm} The mercury, conspiracy and worse for the environment? How could forget those? I'm getting old. BAH!! Louis -------------- Bye.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,11:32    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 02 2011,17:12) {Facepalm} The mercury, conspiracy and worse for the environment? How could forget those? I'm getting old. BAH!! Louis There's *always* a conspiracy, and if they THEY claim otherwise, it's a cover-up. If you claim otherwise, you're either a naive dupe or in THEIR pockets. No evidence for a conspiracy only shows how deep-reaching THEIR influence is. And if the conspiracy theory only works if governments and scientists all over the world are together in it, that only means that you should buy 10 000 light bulbs, a diesel generator, a plywood shack somewhere in the woods, and a gun if you live in the US (I actually read that in a comment...) or that you should buy 10 000 light bulbs, leave all your lights on at all times (that'll show Them!)*, and get really angry in the pub, if you live in Germany. In the UK, you'll probably become Lord Monckton. * I read that one, too. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,19:26    markf continues pwning UD: Quote However, your point is interesting. It seems you are suggesting that the ID argument is: “known non-design alternatives for life are wrong therefore life was designed” I think this is a good summary of the ID argument but do you really support it? I have spent hours hearing from people on the ID side protesting that this is not the case. They claim there is positive evidence for design as well as evidence against “Darwinism”. Barry "Free Speech For Me But Not For Thee" Arrington helpfully points Mark to ID's positive claims, including: Quote 1.  Living things display IC and FSCI. 2.  Material forces have never been shown to produce IC and FSCI. 3.  Intelligent agents routinely produce IC and FSCI. 4.  Therefore, based on the evidence that we have in front of us, the best explanation for the presence of IC and FSCI in living things is that they are the result of acts of an intelligent agent. So, Barry, how about some examples of how to calculate this FSCI thing you're on about?  You could start with these four scenarios.

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2011,22:16    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Sep. 02 2011,06:35) Gordo equates atheists with paedophiles: It goes on but.... According to Gordon E. Mullings it was not clear if the actress in the porn KairosFocus admittted to have watched was even 18:   Quote This lovely, fresh-faced smiling young miss (I gather she was precisely 18 at the time of this picture) Of course it is not his fault:   Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Thus, we are being lured into a world of graphical, aural and verbal stimulation, designed to pull us into an addiction to not only watching but participating in anything-goes action, and to eventually join the fun by (a) taking and posting public pictures of your "equipment" or adventures, or even (b) advertising in pop-ups on the same sites. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

k.e.. Posts: 5427 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,07:18    Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 02 2011,17:53) markf ftw: Quote One way of looking at this. If ID can only measure its progress through objections to “Darwinism” then how is progress in ID different from progress in any other creationist movement such as AIG? Not even UD can spin ID's "achievements" over the past five years any better than that. umm don't spoil the party dude. In the name of the lord let them be our most obedient servants. aAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA GAFAW <snikker> -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,11:35    DeNews quotes Mark Steyn getting all nostalgic about the movie Apollo 13.  She tries to smear current thinking in cosmology by linking it to the fiction of the upcoming Apollo 18. Quote Now, some fear NASA will end up in tune with crackpot cosmologies. You know, “We are living in a giant hologram, or a giant trailer filled with poop, or whatever Stephen Hawking says we are living in” because he is The Smartest Man in the WorldTM, and these days genius beats exploration as a source of knowledge. Obviously, it's much better to rely on a book filled with stories of talking snakes or sticks that turn into snakes or voices speaking out of burning bushes or the parting of seas or people turned into pillars of salt for just looking the wrong way.  Let's keep things real here, people.

fnxtr Posts: 3497 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,12:59    Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)       Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,13:23    Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59) Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)         Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,13:56    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23) Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59) Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)         Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com" -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,14:22    Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56) Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com" Whitehouse.com is down now, but Wiki says this: "In 2004 Dan Parisi decided to sell the domain, mainly because of his son who would be in kindergarten the next year. At this point he was making US$1 million annually from the site alone." Who was it who said, "I'm not in politics for my health?"

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,16:13    Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:   Quote Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule. Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop. -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,18:14    Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13) Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:     Quote Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule. Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop. Tacoma Narrows Bridge Titanic Hindenberg Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City) Ford Pinto London Millenium Footbridge Space Shuttle Challenger Chernobyl Tay Bridge (Scotland) De Havilland Comet Deepwater Horizon ... etc Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions..

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,19:20    If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do? PS: Are statisticians reasonably certain of  their mistakes? -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,19:54    Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 03 2011,19:14) Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13) Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:       Quote Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule. Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop. Tacoma Narrows Bridge Titanic Hindenberg Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City) Ford Pinto London Millenium Footbridge Space Shuttle Challenger Chernobyl Tay Bridge (Scotland) De Havilland Comet Deepwater Horizon ... etc Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions.. You left out Bhopal.  Won't someone think of the chemical engineers?

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,20:54    Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 03 2011,17:54) Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 03 2011,19:14) Quote (paragwinn @ Sep. 03 2011,16:13) Densey O'Bleary's Philosophy of Science:       Quote Intelligent design will prevail when engineers rule. Cuz an engineer would never tell you that we live in a giant trailer full of poop. Tacoma Narrows Bridge Titanic Hindenberg Hyatt Regency Walkway (Kansas City) Ford Pinto London Millenium Footbridge Space Shuttle Challenger Chernobyl Tay Bridge (Scotland) De Havilland Comet Deepwater Horizon ... etc Yep, engineers are so much less error-prone than all the other disciplines and professions.. You left out Bhopal.  Won't someone think of the chemical engineers? That's right, take all the limelight away from the railroad and custodial engineers! -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,21:02    Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 03 2011,19:20) If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do? PS: Are statisticians reasonably certain of  their mistakes? Engineers blame the accountants. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Doc Bill Posts: 1039 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,21:18    ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,22:09    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,19:18) ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman. As portrayed in the upcoming cinematic feature "Tranmawformers: Back-Side of the Dog" using CSI effects, engineered by GilDo, legally protected by Barry 'Jackpot' Arrington. (To be double-featured with "Expelled II: Intelligence IOU" ) -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2011,23:43    Quote If doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers appeal theirs, and scientists build on theirs, what do engineers do? Hit the reboot button? Henry

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:31    Quote I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:55    Quote Genetics paper retracted: “Some other mechanism” is responsible for genetic mutations September 3, 2011 Posted by News under Evolution, Genetics, Intelligent Design, Natural selection, News No Comments In “Genetics Paper Retracted: Due to statistical errors, a Science paper claiming that mutation is responsible for genetic variation is retracted” (The Scientist September 2, 2011), Jessica P. Johnson reports, Quote A May 2010 Science paper showing that the most genetically fit cow-pea weevils have fewer deleterious genetic mutations in their genomes than their less fit counterparts was retracted yesterday (September 1) by the authors because of flaws in their statistical analysis. Quote The results apparently supported the hypothesis that individuals with the fewest bad mutations will produce the most fit offspring. Quote The revised data analysis, which shows little effect on fitness due to mutation, suggests that some other mechanism may instead be responsible for maintaining genetic variation in weevil populations. Wonder what? Must have been the designer at work. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,00:57    BTW, it is good to know that due to their moral superiority decent behaviour like retracting errornous papers is so common among ID scientists. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,02:05    DeNews as always speaks out for academic freedom:   Quote   Quote The zone of protected professorial speech is shrinking. They might want to check into what’s happening to students too. They should see Expelled as well. Today’s universities are a living antithesis of everything North American nations were founded for. Ah, yes.  There was that notorious case of the professor at some Southern Baptist seminary who wrote something that was felt to be at odds with orthodox opinion at the institution.  He was invited to 'clarify' his position or look for another job.   DeNews really gave them a hard time over that. Or was that someone else?

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,02:21    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,19:18) ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman. don't you mean finishes the transformation? Or am I confusing D with someone else? -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,06:42    Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 03 2011,22:18) ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman. trans being operative disgusting stick up it's disgusting ass, that would make a redwood shave it's face and walk backwards because its ass is inadequate -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Seversky Posts: 442 Joined: June 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,08:32    DeNews and the rabbis continue their sinful ways:   Quote Rabbi pleads with Darwinian atheists: Turn back from legal pedophilia. But they can’t. 1.  DeNews sees no difference between journalism and propaganda and thereby ignores the commandment against bearing false witness. 2.  Various celebrity clergy are quick to smear atheism for implying amorality and hence permitting pedophilia.  They ignore the evidence that religious belief does not provide an insurmountable barrier to pedophilia which brings to mind a saying about glass houses and stone-throwing. 3.  Even worse is that, while the Lord took care to prohibit things like taking His name in vain, making graven images or coveting the neighbor's ox, He apparently overlooked the small matter of abusing children - or maybe He didn't consider it such a big deal. 4.  They all sidestep the is/ought problem and the Euthyphro Dilemma.

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,08:54    Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23) Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)   Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)           Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com" Serious question:  what misspelling of Toyota should I be using in my "research"? -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:04    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23) Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59) Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)         Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. To me, Gordo is more like another Leroy. LEEEEEEEEEROOOYYYYYYY  JENKINS! -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:16    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 04 2011,15:04) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23) Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)   Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)           Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. To me, Gordo is more like another Leroy. LEEEEEEEEEROOOYYYYYYY  JENKINS! All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:20    Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Sep. 04 2011,14:54) Quote (OgreMkV @ Sep. 03 2011,13:56) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 03 2011,13:23)   Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 03 2011,18:59)   Quote (sparc @ Sep. 02 2011,20:16)           Quote There is now a rising flood of free -- much of it amateur [or pseudo-amateur] -- Internet pornography, just a simple Google search away. All you have to do is make a simple mistake in a search and the links to the most graphic, "hard core" porn sites will start to come up. Well, sure. I don't know how many times I've tried to Google "Basic Astrophysics" and ended up at "Back Door Babes". Happens all the time. Even when my "safe search" filter is on, right Gorgo? Happens to me too when I search "back door babe", that was that adorable moment in the movie Babe, when Babe the piglet tries to get into the farmer's house through the backdoor. I don't regret the searches, though. It seems Gordo* has something against sex. How surprising... *I am really reluctant about that nick. For me Gordo has always been Leroy Gordon Cooper, a hero of mine, even if he went crazy pants in his later years. Also make sure you spell "Toyota" correctly and I don't suggest "whitehouse.com" Serious question:  what misspelling of Toyota should I be using in my "research"? I was wondering about that too. I'm not sure I want to know the answer, but I will confess to being curious. Louis -------------- Bye.

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,09:58    Quote (sparc @ Sep. 03 2011,22:31)         Quote I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education. And let's not forget: " I once took a class to learn how to run LS-DYNA, a simulator engine developed by some other really smart folks. Now I are a both an engineer and a scientist!". Shows how little you need to know to be a simulator jock: 1)  take a guess, based on what has worked previously. 2)  run the sim, 3)  tweak a parameter or two, 4)  re-run the sim. 5)  continue trial and error until it works. Hmm,  where have I seen this mindless procedure work before? -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,11:24    Hmm... Joe seems to still think that our 'debate' was about evolution.  Him and medplex are upset because I never did define evolution. Of course, I stated that I agreed with all of Joe's definitions of evolution EXCEPT the strawman one that is the only one he actually argues against.  When called on that definition and asked to find a single reference that used it, he ran away. http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....om-fish -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,13:48    Quote (sledgehammer @ Sep. 04 2011,09:58) Quote (sparc @ Sep. 03 2011,22:31)         Quote I am a software/aerodynamics/mechanical/artificial-intelligence/information-processing/integrating-all-of-these-engineering-disciplines engineer says the one time piano player who owns three college degrees in foreign language, literature, and music who otherwise spent a consiiderable time of his life hanging around without any further formal education. And let's not forget: " I once took a class to learn how to run LS-DYNA, a simulator engine developed by some other really smart folks. Now I are a both an engineer and a scientist!". Shows how little you need to know to be a simulator jock: 1)  take a guess, based on what has worked previously. 2)  run the sim, 3)  tweak a parameter or two, 4)  re-run the sim. 5)  continue trial and error until it works. Hmm,  where have I seen this mindless procedure work before? UD News? -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,18:11    Gordo Quote Is it any surprise that what we used to call lumpen proletariat elements would soak in the atmosphere of amorality and resort to nihilistic, opportunistic looting; without being able to quote Nietzsche. Why should they, it was all written into their school books and the teacher’s scripts for classes, it was trumpeted all over TV, it was in the papers and it was on the net. Er, right-o. Nailed that on the head. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,18:19    Quote (Seversky @ Sep. 04 2011,08:32) 3.  Even worse is that, while the Lord took care to prohibit things like taking His name in vain, making graven images or coveting the neighbor's ox, He apparently overlooked the small matter of abusing children - or maybe He didn't consider it such a big deal. Not at all - Jesus specifically commanded "Suffer the little children", and the Vatican is merely trying its utmost to ensure that they do. (/snark)

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,19:34    Just started watching a documentary called Mystical Brain.  In the first few minutes it quotes O'Leary's Spatula Brain coauthor Mario Beauregard: Quote We lived in the country.  I had lots of time to think.  Already when I was young, I had an inner certainty that the essence of human beings, the soul if you will, was a phenomenon linked to the brain, but was not the brain.  One could not be reduced to the other.  As a child, I thought, "When I grow up, I'll become a scientist, and I'll demonstrate that." It's a nice summary of the ID attitude toward science: "I already know the Truth.  I can't be wrong. Science's job is to confirm what I know, and by God, I'll twist and mangle it until it does." -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,20:47    Apropos of nothing specific: -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2011,22:13    Most people have two souls. One on each foot.

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,06:25    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13) Most people have two souls. One on each foot. ... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE? (I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser) -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,06:41    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16) All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry: Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons. Carry on, then. -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,09:29    Quote       Quote That antibiotic resistance likely jumped from the soil bacteria to disease-causing bacteria. You mean, it was due to jumping genes, not Darwinian evolution? Remember when failure to believe that Darwinian evolution is the cause of antibiotic resistence was supposed to endanger the nation’s health? Quaint. I just headdesked so hard, I feel slightly concussed. ETA:Link -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,10:11    Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,12:41) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16) All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry: Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons. Carry on, then. I would never suggest that. Although you do seem to have a bad case of Altoholism. Which server are you on? Do you raid? What spec is your druid?* Louis *Not that I know about these things. Never played the game in my life. Honest. -------------- Bye.

Patrick Posts: 666 Joined: July 2011 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,11:01    Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,07:41) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16) All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry: Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons. Carry on, then. Depends.  Shadow or Holy priest?

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:39    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 05 2011,11:11) Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,12:41) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16) All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry: Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons. Carry on, then. I would never suggest that. Although you do seem to have a bad case of Altoholism. Which server are you on? Do you raid? What spec is your druid?* Louis *Not that I know about these things. Never played the game in my life. Honest. Druid is a Boomchicken because I'm too chickenshit to try healing, although I AM dual specced for it. I play on the US Bloodhoof server, as does Deadman.  Both Alliance.  I don't get to raid any more because of this absolute shit satellite ISP I have here in the sticks of Washington State.  650 latency is a GOOD day for me.  Normally it's 800-2k so the lag is too much for even random instances, much less raiding.  I used to OWN Icecrown Citadel, back before I moved.  Waaaah! I'll tell you our toons' names if you care to look us up.  Deadman raids pretty regularly and is a bit of a gear whore, even if he denies it.  He's even a Defender of A Shattered World, the bastard!   :angry: -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:44    Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 05 2011,12:01) Quote (Wolfhound @ Sep. 05 2011,07:41) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 04 2011,10:16) All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy...All WoW and no play makes Jack a dull boy... ;-) Louis What?  You are suggesting I'm dull boy/girl just because I have a level 85 hunter, level 85 paladin, level 85 druid, level 85 priest, level 85 death knight, and a level 64 rogue?   :angry: Oh, wait, it's all of those other reasons. Carry on, then. Depends.  Shadow or Holy priest? Shadow is primary.  Holy is secondary.  :) -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,13:52    Crazy kids... I played Minesweeper, once. -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

Alan Fox Posts: 1552 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,14:00    Who on Earth is this nutcase? Anyone curious enough to follow the link to his blog? Is this the messiah we've been waiting for?   Quote Each and every living cell on Earth is inhabited by live beings, both mono-cells and cells that cluster to live in poly-cell life forms. Next!

Bob O'H Posts: 2561 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,14:51    Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25) Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13) Most people have two souls. One on each foot. ... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE? (I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser) I meta tarsier once. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Alan Fox Posts: 1552 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:01    Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,09:51) Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25) Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13) Most people have two souls. One on each foot. ... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE? (I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser) I meta tarsier once. You didn't mistake it for flying phalanges by any chance?

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:02    Quote You may find this version fraught with insights, with answers to yet unanswered questions and with directions for thought, study and work IF, if like the boy in The Emperor's New Clothes, you call what you see; if you regard the in-cell contents a life-bearing micro-space-ship at a homeostatic state. not enough crank fontage to convince me of teh truthiness.  for someone bringing galactic level tard, the poor dumb sombitch sure needs some lessons in presentation -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

sledgehammer Posts: 533 Joined: Sep. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:17    Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,12:51)   Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)   Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13) Most people have two souls. One on each foot. ... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE? (I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser) I meta tarsier once. Groan.... Talus you won't do that again, or I'll have to put my foot down.  You're just tap-dancing around the issue. -------------- The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD) If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:30    These pun cascades just stain my sole... -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

paragwinn Posts: 539 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,15:35    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Sep. 05 2011,13:30) These pun cascades just stain my sole... They are my Achille's Heel. -------------- All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11 F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11 Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,16:41    Quote (sledgehammer @ Sep. 05 2011,16:17) Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 05 2011,12:51)   Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 05 2011,06:25)     Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 05 2011,04:13) Most people have two souls. One on each foot. ... which is presumably why IDiots have developed their own ToE? (I'm such a heel for saying that. An utter tarser) I meta tarsier once. Groan.... Talus you won't do that again, or I'll have to put my foot down.  You're just tap-dancing around the issue. Aglet it drop, if I was you. -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 05 2011,22:56    Gilbert Dodgen: Quote At age 90 as of 2011, my father is one of the few living scientists who developed the atomic bomb during WWII. He named me after the great physical chemist Gilbert Newton Lewis, under whom my dad earned his Ph.D. in his early 20s while working on the Manhattan Project. When I was a child in the 1950s rumors spread that the communist Chinese were developing an atomic bomb. I asked my dad, “Why don’t we just keep it a secret from them?” My dad replied, and I’ll never forget it, “Gilbert, the secret is in nature, and it’s there to be found by anyone who looks hard enough.” Of course, my dad was talking about the nature of the nucleus of the atom, physical chemistry, and the potential for a sustained nuclear chain reaction. I would like to offer the following observation, inspired by my father’s comment: Design is to be found in nature, by anyone who looks hard enough. The irony is that figuring out nuclear fission requires quite a bit of searching for “secrets,” while design in nature is there to be found with almost no searching at all. Design screams from every corner of creation. Not finding design in nature is what takes a lot of effort. Poor Frill's head is going to explode if he tiptoes any closer to the inevitable question.  Dissonance much, Gil? -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,00:33    I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews: Quote In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert. Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false. His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side. Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,03:40    Quote (didymos @ Sep. 06 2011,00:33) I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews:   Quote In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert. Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false. His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side. Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring. Ah, Lönnig again. As usual he cites Behe and other creationists in his article "Carnivorous Plants" that somehow made it into Nature's Encyclopaedia of Life Sciences. Interestingly, he cites Robert Nachtwey's "Der Irrweg des Darwinismus" published 1959. According to a review it contained already everything that Intelligent Design claims today and those arguments were outdated back then: Quote We could dispose of this book and its subject-the misdirection of Darwinism -in a few sentences. On the basis of its intrinsic merit it rates only a little space. But the very fact that such a work could be published a century after Darwin's The Origin of Species is interesting in itself and, to anyone concerned with the resistance that scientific knowledge often encounters, this fact is important enough to merit some study. ETA link -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:15    Quote If you are referring to the God of the Bible, then He owes us nothing other than punishment for our crimes against Him. If this makes no sense to you, then you plainly fail to understand simple Biblical theology. LOL. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

sparc Posts: 2075 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:37    As if Gil Dodgen never ever mentioned the achievements of his father before: Quote 3 Robert Byers September 6, 2011 at 3:12 ame Didn’t know one of the writers here comes from such a achieving family in the great stories of the use of physics. Too bad its killing people but in reality the atomic bombs had to be used to save people from being killed other ways. The good guys too. Its cool to have creationism(s) these days with rightfully confident people. Will Gildo tell Robert that his father is an atheist not dismissing evolution theory? BTW: Since when is ID creationism? Or do I miss irony and Mr. Byers pisses off Gildo? -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,06:46    Quote (didymos @ Sep. 06 2011,00:33) I don't know why, but the lack of self-awareness over there still stupefies me.  DeNews:   Quote In fairness, Matzke doesn’t really know much about carnivorous plants, whereas Loennig is clearly an expert. Matzke has a tendency to rely on pseudo-experts, which can play him false. His best bet right now, to event he score, would be to bring in a real expert on his side. Her stupidity is truly awe-inspiring. expert  - n., connotation: Someone who authoritatively tells you what you want to hear. As long as IDC advocates and cheerleaders go with that, they'll keep giving us those Dover moments in court. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:24    And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert...

Woodbine Posts: 1218 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:26    Well I learned something today. For as long as I can remember I had been pronouncing Gil with a soft G but now I discover it's short for Gilbert. Gilbert Dodgen. Someone really ought to tell him the Universe is taking the piss out of him. The only other Gil I am aware of is Gil Gerard (Buck Rogers). And so without further excuse here's a picture of the lovely Wilma Deering. (snatched from wilmadeering.com believe it or not)

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,12:49    Doesn't this post break some kind of rule at UD? there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

BillB Posts: 388 Joined: Aug. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,13:58    Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24) And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert... ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age.

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:03    I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader. The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book. Details here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:04    Quote (BillB @ Sep. 06 2011,19:58) Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24) And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert... ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age. There's an excellent section of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue"* in which new definitions are given to old words. For example: Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan. Coquette: Small penis. And so on and so forth. Louis * The Radio 4 show that gave us Mornington Crescent. -------------- Bye.

noncarborundum Posts: 320 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,14:34    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 06 2011,14:04)   Quote (BillB @ Sep. 06 2011,19:58)   Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 06 2011,18:24) And here I though an expert was somebody what used to be a pert... ex-pert. (Noun):  female breasts that have succumbed to the forces of gravity and age. There's an excellent section of "I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue"* in which new definitions are given to old words. For example: Countryside: To kill Piers Morgan. Coquette: Small penis. And so on and so forth. Louis * The Radio 4 show that gave us Mornington Crescent. rec·ti·tude  (r?kt?-t??d, -ty??d) n. the honorable, upright demeanor assumed by your proctologist as he prepares to examine you. ETA:  those length-marked vowels looked just fine in preview. -------------- "The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

Raevmo Posts: 235 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,17:48    Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 06 2011,14:03) I don't know if this has been posted, but the new Koonin book is available free for download At Amazon. If you non't have a Kindle, you can download a free reader. The News at UD is rather stupidly touting it as an ID friendly book. Details here: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyng....freebie That is putting is mildly. Quote from Koonin's book: "Of course, ID is malicious nonsense" Bwahaha -------------- After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM. --GilDodgen

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,17:57    The universe implodes as DeNudes opines on IQ, snatching an illustration from the Wikipedia article on IQ, uncredited. That article also states: "The American Psychological Association's report 'Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns' states that wherever it has been studied, children with high scores on tests of intelligence tend to learn more of what is taught in school than their lower-scoring peers. The correlation between IQ scores and grades is about .50. This means that the explained variance is 25%." And "The validity of IQ as a predictor of job performance is above zero for all work studied to date, but varies with the type of job and across different studies, ranging from 0.2 to 0.6. The correlations were higher when the unreliability of measurement methods were controlled for. While IQ is more strongly correlated with reasoning and less so with motor function, IQ-test scores predict performance ratings in all occupations." And "The American Psychological Association's 1995 report Intelligence: Knowns and Unknowns stated that IQ scores accounted for (explained variance) about quarter of the social status variance and one-sixth of the income variance. Statistical controls for parental SES eliminate about a quarter of this predictive power. Psychometric intelligence appears as only one of a great many factors that influence social outcomes." There are many caveats; academic performance, job performance and income are all complexly and multiply determined. IQ has a relationship with each of them, stronger in some instances than in others. From this DeNudes concludes: Quote within a normal range - there is no systematic relationship between IQ and achievement. *Facepalm* -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 06 2011,20:20    But will Gil conclude from this that there is not a strong correlation between daddy's career achievements and the achievements of his web potato child? -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.