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Date: 2010/04/04 08:18:44, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,08:04)
1-The definition I provided is an example of specified information.

2-I then measured the information contained in that definition.

3- It was an EXAMPLE of how to measure SI to see if CSI is present.
Granting that SI can be measured, how much SI is required for CSI to be present?
Does CSI = Designed?

These are honest questions, I would hope for an answer devoid of invectives.

Date: 2010/04/04 18:54:52, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (keiths @ April 04 2010,13:08)

Where did you get that photo of Joe G. for your avatar?

This is my son. Similarities are purely coincidental.

Date: 2010/04/06 15:53:58, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Mindrover @ April 04 2010,08:18)
Quote (Joe G @ April 03 2010,08:04)
1-The definition I provided is an example of specified information.

2-I then measured the information contained in that definition.

3- It was an EXAMPLE of how to measure SI to see if CSI is present.
Granting that SI can be measured, how much SI is required for CSI to be present?
Does CSI = Designed?

These are honest questions, I would hope for an answer devoid of invectives.

Just re-posting this so it is not lost amongst the other posts.

Date: 2010/04/16 13:44:14, Link
Author: Mindrover
Since he wasn't answering over here, I went to his blog and asked my questions (my follow-ups are italicized).
But wouldn't this lend credence to the critics?

Why would it?

If the "critics" applied their "criticism" equally they would be attacking the ToE too.

If something is defined with 100, characters+it would meet the 500 bit threshold for CSI.

This is true- as long as all the characters are necessary.

If it can be defined with fewer than 100 characters, but is designed, why would it not have CSI?

500 bits of SI = CSI- period- according to "No Fee Lunch".

If it has CSI, but contains less than 500 bits of information, how is this number a useful threshold?

It cannot have CSI and be less than 500 bits of SI.

It can be designed and have less than 500 bits of SI.

As for a "useful threshold"- I don't even know if that is what Dembski was after, but CSI is greater than all the probabilistic resources in the universe.

I think that is all Dembski was after.
SI >= 500 = CSI = Designed
SI < 500 != CSI = Possibly Designed

Even ignoring how SI is generated, this is nonsense. This type of "logic" is perfectly in step with his "hail is not made of water" diatribe.

Date: 2010/05/04 10:51:58, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ May 04 2010,10:32)
Aleta, about StephenB:
As far as I recall, he just keeps asserting the same things without explaining further.

StephenB's response:
(insert repetition of the same things without further explanation.)

I clicked on the StephenB reply in the hope that you did a direct quote.

I learned my lesson: Never read UD while eating (unless you want to lose weight).

Date: 2010/05/04 11:11:25, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Cubist @ May 01 2010,06:12)
Code Sample
Character string one:
={ &={ +ZrKU hg"Ix gFZ" uaM?j ?Uhg
>H jCZrK ,MjR Lu"gF ZKZ g[)Zh Z"KXM
gcR"K XMgaX -KcZY [lX ??U? ?waR, XmwM
Zv>Z ngo_ vUT XV Xv Zuyw y ,.! !&

Character string two:
jk?2J ^'VE ?hS-c Z(# ]'6"8 0cWd Yfv
BlGB a?" B2#_ 9gy B?J @Se&y 4Sp
'T4? #q- 6[Of 1#3?} - UTeT Fdg
Oi. H^- ?Jv= 1Q^o O];v :?QE( 5q3L

Using the "information" I gleaned from JoeG, let me take a stab at #3:

First, I will need to know which one is the encrypted message (it will change the definition from "a string of random characters" to "an encrypted message"). Not being as familiar with the process as JoeG, I am not sure if I should request the unencrypted message as well (for a better definition, of course).

Second step, I count the number of charact... "amount of information" and multiply by 5.
Code Sample
a string of random characters = 29*5 = CSI of 145
an encrypted message = 20*5 = CSI of 100

Checking the CSI values against the design watermark of 500 I find that both\neither string is designed. I am sure that if the encrypted string is identified for me first (my request from earlier) that I could refine the accuracy a bit more.

I seem to be missing a step. Nowhere in the above message did I call into question Cubist's sexuality (or choice of car).
Back to the drawing board, it seems.

Date: 2010/05/06 07:30:39, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Cubist @ May 04 2010,11:45)
So what you're saying is that ID can tell you which one is Designed, as long as you already knew in the first place..?

Pretty much.
From Joe's own blog:
Quote (Joe G @ ,)
If it is something straight-forward such as a definition,we can count the number of bits in that definition to find out how much information it contains.

For example:
aardvark: a large burrowing nocturnal mammal (Orycteropus afer) of sub-Saharan Africa that has a long snout, extensible tongue, powerful claws, large ears, and heavy tail and feeds especially on termites and ants

A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..
along with...  
Quote (Joe G @ ,)
According to Wm. Dembski 500 bits of SI = CSI ("No Free Lunch")

And yes CSI = designed as it it beyond all probabilistic resources in the universe.

Does that mean that 499 is not designed? No.
So if I'm to use ID to figure this out, and JoeG seems to be the only IDer willing to describe their method, I need to know which one is the encrypted message.

Also, if I'm using the "JoeG method", I must now hurl insults and flounce out.


Y'all are a bunch of tubemonkeys.
(I seriously need to work on my insults if I'm to get anywhere in ID. :( )


Date: 2010/06/30 08:04:20, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (dvunkannon @ June 30 2010,07:09)
Quote (sparc @ June 29 2010,22:25)
Am I completely stupid or do you know what DO'L to tell?
Eighty-five years ago, my devout grandmother told my five-year-old father to follow a turkey hen up into the hills and find out where she was caching her eggs. The trouble was, a coyote could get them. The boy not much taller than a turkey hen himself had to follow the hen discreetly, because she would turn around and look at him. But he found the eggs, and his mother promptly put them under a broody chicken hen, in the henhouse, so they could be safely hatched.
Is there any senseful information in that? If so, how does it relate to the topic of her post? Is it about  
foolish Christian women
and moral bankruptcy: A mother sending her five year old son in the woods where the coyote could get the turkey, the eggs and the boy so he  
end(s) up getting processed for whatever?
Maybe her prose is ahead of times.

Honestly, I think Denyse is trying to give an example of cooperation among species. That story follows this paragraph:

Wallace understood the world I know much better not at all surprising, because he was a much better naturalist than Darwin. In the world I know, co-operation matters.

It might also be a misplaced counterpoint to 'foolish Christian women' - a wise woman will save eggs and help them be born.

Look closer at her story - this has very little to do with cooperation:
Turkey hen is hiding her eggs.
Mother thinks (real or imagined) coyote could eat eggs.
Mother has son steal eggs and place them under new hen.

It has more to do with how Australians dealt with aboriginals than with inter-species cooperation.

Date: 2010/06/30 11:40:34, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (dvunkannon @ June 30 2010,10:07)
Okay, but then what happens? I assumed the turkey eggs hatched and the turkeys released into the wild. The eggs weren't collected to be eaten, after all. Even keeping the wild turkeys and feeding them to kill them later for food is unlikely, in my view. For some reason, the grandmother thought humans would do a better job of ensuring the survival of the turkey eggs than their own mother.

Which puts it firmly alongside the Stolen Generation rationale.*

This is not cooperation.

*I can totally tell the difference between an anecdote from a crazed canadian "journalist" and racial atrocities. I also realize that I am equating the two. I freely admit that this is both silly and wrong.

Date: 2010/07/06 11:33:57, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2010,10:35)

Wow. JoeG sure seems desperate for OlegT to notice him. Oleg may wish to respond or suffer JoeG's next attempt - fishnet stockings and makeup.

Date: 2010/07/08 12:26:32, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (midwifetoad @ July 08 2010,12:21)
Basic science is now performing an invaluable service as the handmaiden of theology. We agree with Gould. Let it know its rightful place and be content to serve.

...And science better come back with a sandwich, if it knows what's good for it.

Date: 2010/07/22 14:31:25, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Henry J @ July 22 2010,14:10)


Date: 2010/07/26 09:42:18, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Wolfhound @ July 26 2010,08:45)
Quote (JLT @ July 23 2010,08:33)
Quote (Wolfhound @ July 23 2010,06:11)
Way to fuck with the blind folks, guys! :angry:

As a service to the blind folks a translation of this important exchange in morse code:

S? (S = three dots in morse code) What is that an abbreviation of?


Seconded (Google rocks)

Much better! I thought it was braille. ???

'.. . . . . . . . . . . .. ..'
' . . . . .. .. . . .. . . . .'
' . . . . . . .'

Date: 2010/07/30 14:49:44, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 30 2010,10:09)


Wrong Nicky.

The argument is that blind, undirected processes cannot produce information from scratch nor can those processes increase information.

IOW Nick you are a lying piece of shit.

Now please take me to Court and try to sue me for slander or libel.

That's boys an idiot.

On the plus side, it looks like Joe has stopped stalking Oleg.

On the negative, I have read yet another of his "LOOK AT ME!!!!" posts.

Why do I get the mental image of Joe in a soiled tutu and combat boots, jumping up and down in a city square, yelling his blog posts into a bullhorn at passers by?

Date: 2010/08/02 14:48:25, Link
Author: Mindrover

Joe G:

Let x = $10 and y = $20

The set {x,y} contains $30

the power set { {}, {x}, {y}, {x, y} } also contains $30.

$30 = $30


Sheik: I think you're learning, Joe, despite yourself. Do you now agreee that {x, y} != { {}, {x}, {y}, {x, y} }?


Joe: Hey asshole that has been my position all along.

I can only hope Joe has someone else do his taxes.

Date: 2010/08/11 10:06:25, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 10 2010,18:57)
The thread then trails off. So, you've read the thread, now let's hear you say, "O'Leary is not on drugs." No smirking, no crossing your fingers, no bursting in to peals of laughter half way through the sentence, just look us in the eye and say, "O'Leary is not on drugs."

I didn't think you could. So the next question is, "What kind of drugs?" I vote for industrial strength meth with a crack chaser.

You are presupposing drug use. DoL's screed could just as easily be explained through repeated controlled periods of oxygen deprivation. Two Words:

Auto-erotic Asphyxia

They don't make brain bleach strong enough (I checked).

Date: 2010/08/12 15:48:29, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 12 2010,15:08)

...Actually, it has really made me wish that we could do an Ilk Homeschool recommendation list. Since so many of you are very intelligent and educated I would love to hear your recommendations on books and such for my littles.

I would love to have little "Ilks" running around having wondeful debates one day (Of course, with a concentration on the Gospel first :).

Spacebunny 8/12/10 2:58 PM
Ace - I'll ask Vox to post on it and I'll link to it on the homeschooling group.

On the one hand, I weep for those children.
On the other hand, I'm glad my kids won't have as much competition for college admissions.

Date: 2010/08/13 13:54:26, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (lkeithlu @ Aug. 13 2010,11:50)
Quote (JohnW @ Aug. 12 2010,16:04)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 12 2010,13:54)

In the unlikely event that your irony meters have survived prolonged exposure to UD, the section
The claim that atheists tend to be quarrelsome and socially challenged men

is by Vox Day.


(rips off her helmet and drives her sword straight through)

(though I may be socially challenged. a bit. maybe)


You're Odysseus?

Date: 2010/09/14 07:04:57, Link
Author: Mindrover
My LOLfu is weak, but these look like zombie weasels.

Date: 2010/11/29 09:45:33, Link
Author: Mindrover
While I am all for a perma-ban for Mabus, I'll miss reading his "output".

It's like a train wreck where all of the passengers are circus clowns with tourettes. Sure, it's difficult to look at and full of (unoriginal) invective, but you just cannot look away.

Date: 2010/11/29 15:10:45, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Bing @ Nov. 29 2010,10:08)
Quote (Mindrover @ Nov. 29 2010,09:45)
... circus clowns with tourettes....

Isn't that how FtK used to refer to Blipey?

You're not taking a swipe at our clown, are you?

"circus clown train wreck" is, oddly, used a  lot in my family to describe things that are hilarious yet horrible. I added the mental illness in deference to Mabus.

FTK was before my time, but I did go delving into the archives.  Wow. Even though I meant no offense, I apologize to Blipey.

Date: 2010/12/08 11:30:09, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Badger3k @ Dec. 07 2010,23:48)
As an old eighties song puts it:  
The purpose of a man is to love a woman,
The purpose of a woman is to love a man.

Game of Love was released by Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders in 1965.
There was a cover of it released in 1987 (in New Zealand), but the original still gets more play than a regional cover (except, perhaps, in New Zealand).

I think they have their music and scientific paper search algorithms swapped.
You go for the oldest known version of the song, but the latest version of the science.

Date: 2010/12/09 12:45:27, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Badger3k @ Dec. 09 2010,02:21)
Just to explain my surprise at seeing my name quoted with that, I responded to another post, so you might want to credit the originator of that, not a responder.

Sorry about that. Every time I tried to edit the quote tags, bad things happened to the post.

Date: 2010/12/10 11:36:59, Link
Author: Mindrover
Using what passes for exhaustive research* over at UD, I can state that only the "Indian" was gay.

* Stuff I half-remember and/or just make up.

Date: 2010/12/12 09:49:35, Link
Author: Mindrover
More likely that a "one-liner" was evidence that KF's account was hacked.

Date: 2011/01/11 12:45:14, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 11 2011,00:39)
Gil is back with a new post titled, "The Evidence is Overwhelming". But when you click on the Overwhelming Evidence link, you get a MySQL error, "Unable to select database".

Maybe the evidence isn't all that overwhelming after all?

I would argue that the "evidence" is overwhelming mySQL, at least.

Date: 2011/01/19 08:07:35, Link
Author: Mindrover
Closer to a divide by zero error.

Date: 2011/02/11 13:31:56, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Sol3a1 @ Feb. 11 2011,13:00)
Quote (judgmabu7 @ Feb. 11 2011,12:38)


Okay what does that have to do with anything?

Coolest stop-motion video every.
Damnit Mabus, now I can't get that song out of my head.

Date: 2011/02/18 14:17:29, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (dheddle @ Feb. 18 2011,13:37)
I just want to remind Richard Hughes that the Daytona 500 is this Sunday. It's not like that feminine fuel-injected, paddle-shifting racing they do in Europe--it's manly stuff with gear shifters and carburetors. He's my friend and I want him to watch--I think it will do him good.

So Richard, grab yourself a good reactionary brew--like maybe Coors, and sit back and enjoy the race!

...Or he could simply wait three weeks until a proper* racing season starts.

*One where the drivers must turn left and right. I would ask "What's so hard about turning left for three hours?", but Dale Ernhardt isn't talking.

Date: 2011/04/03 07:48:31, Link
Author: Mindrover

Joe seems to be a Depeche Mode video away from becoming Mabus.

Date: 2011/04/11 10:15:28, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 11 2011,10:06)
Clive steps in to save the day!

Well. I guess that's us sorted.

Date: 2011/04/27 17:44:23, Link
Author: Mindrover
Because bright green on white is torture to read.

Date: 2011/06/01 11:07:22, Link
Author: Mindrover
What's even better is that, in some online games, your camera blacks out at death and then resumes, but you no longer have control of it.

Often times you are killed, only to reawaken to a digital crotch-fest (which should be a band name, though possibly translated to german, first).

Date: 2011/06/02 19:19:40, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (fnxtr @ June 02 2011,19:10)
Quote (Wolfhound @ June 02 2011,14:49)
Quote (fnxtr @ June 01 2011,17:50)
Quote (Louis @ June 01 2011,13:39)
Quote (fnxtr @ June 01 2011,21:18)
Quote (Louis @ June 01 2011,09:20)
Quote (Mindrover @ June 01 2011,17:07)
What's even better is that, in some online games, your camera blacks out at death and then resumes, but you no longer have control of it.

Often times you are killed, only to reawaken to a digital crotch-fest (which should be a band name, though possibly translated to german, first).

Your post. It is full of win!


I am picturing epic glam metal hair and very tight leather.


buttless chaps.

I'm more for chapless butts.


That's what the lotion is for.


I dunno, I kinda like how Louis took it and ran with it...

Let's see...
Louis (check)
Lotion (check)
Digital crotch-fest (check)

All these point to: TJOTW

Thread-Jacking of the Week

Date: 2011/06/08 14:55:36, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 07 2011,15:50)
Joe stopped allowing posts through when we got him to the point where he had to admit he was wrong or look like even more of an idiot then he usually does.

Funny that.

If that's what it takes, how did he ever allow posts?

Date: 2011/07/28 12:11:29, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (rossum @ July 28 2011,12:01)
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 28 2011,10:48)
Interestingly this is why New Zealand is such a nice place to live.

Nothing to do with the sheep, then?

That's Wales.


Nothing to do with the whales, then?

Date: 2011/08/01 09:40:05, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Joe G @ Aug. 01 2011,08:15)
I never said proving evolution will disprove ID.

Quote (Joe G @ Aug. 01 2011,08:15)
As for answering your questions- well no need. All you have to do to refute ID is to actually step up and start producing positive evidence for your position.


Just... ow.

This is the argument equivalent of a "divide by zero" error.

Date: 2011/08/01 12:15:54, Link
Author: Mindrover
It would be expensive, but I would suggest the dice that come in LEGO sets, as you can swap die faces easily.

Another possibility is blank dice that can be written upon with dry-erase or wet-erase pens/crayons.

The logistics of keeping track of dice populations by assigning numbers to a-f as mentioned above is a bit more than most people want for a table game.

For the environmental selection, I would suggest a deck of cards. Each card would have a test (total roll > 21; roll more "1"s than "5"s; etc) and different birth/death/mutation rates for those populations that "pass" or "fail" these tests.

Date: 2011/08/01 13:17:10, Link
Author: Mindrover
Yes, as originally described (and closer to the point you want to get across) this should be a computer simulation.

Since my son is getting to that age where "family game night" is becoming a possibility, I am trying to find\build games that can be played at the table.

My idea has simply not competed well enough against these "computer-based" populations.  :p

Date: 2011/08/01 13:38:18, Link
Author: Mindrover
Casting back to the early pages of this thread, and realizing that cake is nothing without icing, I have found the proverbial "snake in the apple tree":

1 1/4 cups powdered sugar
3 tablespoons milk
Mix milk into sugar, one tablespoon at a time.

the above recipie, even adding the (cr+lf), is only 96 characters. Using Joe's super-secret, Nobel Prize worthy CSI formula (count the characters and multiply by 5), I get 480.

This is less than the CSI threshold of 500 bits, meaning that icing is ... NOT DESIGNED!1!!eleventy-one!!

{reads further}

Oh, nevermind. Even if it's less than 500, it's still designed and may contain CSI (though probably a lesser spinoff like CSI:Miami).

Date: 2011/08/01 13:41:52, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 01 2011,13:26)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Aug. 01 2011,12:27)
I'm not sure I understand fitness as you defined it.

I'm using the sides of the dice as 'fitness', perhaps improperly. Each side of the dice has a chance of being rolled at the selection trail. So an average of the faces is a proxy for its relative chances in that trail. Now (1,1,1,6,6,6) has the same fitness as (3,3,3,4,4,4) but if the hurdle is [3] then clearly the second die is superior. perhaps head to head trails are the preferred selection test?

You could roll-off amongst those dice that pass the fitness test.

You could also go the other way around,  rolling against the hurdle first, then selecting for average value against the higher rolls.

Date: 2011/08/02 06:38:50, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (sparc @ Aug. 01 2011,22:32)
Since I cannot be asked to follow UD's News/O'Leary I had a look over at Gordon E. Mullings' aka Kairosfocus pages just to ruin my BS detector and melt my irony meter when I learned that he uses the Dembski's Explanatory Filter to analyse media content:
And yet, global media, up to and including the once great BBC could not pick that up and strike a reasonable balance on the merits?

That makes me sick.


Beware when something in the mass media fits your favourite stereotypes just a bit too well!!!

Such is functionally specific and complex, so it is likely to be an artifact of design, not a mere natural happenstance.

That is, yes, I am applying the explanatory filter, common sense version, to media information to detect propagandistic designs.

EF: Not Even Once

Date: 2011/08/04 09:07:48, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Freddie @ Aug. 03 2011,14:53)
David Klinghoffer:
It's fair to assume that Hawking's installation as atheist guru is attributable mostly to his evocative, camera-ready physical handicap and cinematically eerie computer-generated voice, which someone seems to have tweaked lately to make it sound even eerier. He's not only a media darling but a media creation. Less readily dismissed is the recognition that Dr. Lennox has received as, some have said, a contemporary C.S. Lewis. Lennox is a most unusual combination of brilliance, accessibility, grandfatherly Irish warmth, and sheer charm.

What is wrong with these people?

They're just bitter that DrDr doesn't have his own album.

Date: 2011/08/10 09:33:25, Link
Author: Mindrover
[quote=JLT,Aug. 10 2011,02:42]  

Is Mung a Poe? He can't be serious.

He's just really bad at telling the "Get your own dirt" joke.

Date: 2011/08/11 09:30:53, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Aug. 11 2011,06:30)
There's a petition at that you can sign aimed at the Montreal police, asking them to officially state whether or not the "David Mabus"/Dennis Markuse threats over the internet are violations of law:


It is time for the police to take his threats seriously. The problem must be addressed before it escalates beyond Internet bullying and veiled threats to become something worse. Please make a public statement whether Mr. Markuze has violated Canada's uttered threats laws (criminal code section 264)

I mught just be a lurker, but I've signed it.

Date: 2011/08/12 08:16:49, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 12 2011,08:02)
OK, maybe I'm just being pissy here, but now Ed Brayton has decided to glom onto UD as well.

You guys have been dealing with this for a long bloody time and now he's decided it would be fun too.

But he's got a huge following and that will only drive the UD numbers up, something that will only embolden them.

No offense meant, Ogre, but you have just become a "hipster TARDminer".

Date: 2011/08/12 08:20:16, Link
Author: Mindrover
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Primarily because a nicer guy wouldn't do the things Dennis has done.

Date: 2011/08/16 08:31:04, Link
Author: Mindrover
That's because, if you do it right, you sober up in October.

Date: 2011/08/26 13:09:19, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Aug. 25 2011,18:06)
Marriage is a wonderful institution that allows two people to face together the problems they would never have had if they didn't marry.

Thanks again for the kind words and encouragements. And jokes. Keep them coming!

Just before my marriage, my Dad gave me this advice:

There will be times in your marriage where you can be right or happy.

Choose wisely.

Date: 2011/09/08 13:55:59, Link
Author: Mindrover
It always confused me when a female avatar was being derided as a girl.

Turns out that they meant Guy In Real Life.

Mind you, this was years ago, before wife and children.

Date: 2012/02/12 17:05:11, Link
Author: Mindrover
At this point, they should just use "???? " for their captcha and be done with it.

Date: 2012/02/12 17:08:39, Link
Author: Mindrover
Well, crackers. Here I go and try to be witty, only to fall flat.

The above ???? was the hebrew word shibboleth (I used preview and everything).

Date: 2012/03/06 14:09:36, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 06 2012,13:41)
Ya see kevin, one problem I have always had with hydrogen fuel cells is if that hydrogen wasn't taken from existing H2O, when the hydrogen fuel combusts and makes water vapor, we will be adding to the existing supply and end up drowning ouselves anyway. LoL

While recent discussions on gravity and mass are a tad beyond me (though if anyone has some books\papers to reccomend...), I have to take issue with this statement, Joe.

Hydrogen does not "combust" in a hydrogen fuel cell. It is combined with oxygen (usually taken from the air) and this interaction generates electricity and water. You may as well complain that fuel cells will take all the oxygen from the atmosphere, suffocating us before we can drown.

Date: 2012/03/08 08:55:06, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,08:02)
Quote (olegt @ Mar. 08 2012,08:00)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 08 2012,07:54)
[font=Comic Sans MS]1- I need to see those DNA sequences


Exactly what I expected from a person who doesn't understand science.</span>

God, he is really that stupid.

Joe, the sequences are right here, on this very page.

Yeah oleg- the sequences kevin made-up- they ain't REAL DNA sequences oleg

Also your position needs to be able to determine which is designed and which isn't...

I think people missed something. The most charitable reading of the above shows that Joe believes [i]both[/b] sequences to be designed.

Date: 2012/08/10 11:27:19, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (JohnW @ Aug. 09 2012,19:41)
Quote (JohnW @ Aug. 08 2012,09:27)
Quote (Patrick @ Aug. 08 2012,09:03)
Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 08 2012,11:29)
Joe's reply to Bartax sums up the culture of discourse at Uncommon Descent:
fartmax- YOU are the one throwing insults around.

Bartax asks a good question in that thread:
Is UD so desperate for traffic that people with severe social difficulties such as Joe are allowed to post without restraint or censure?

I woud love to hear Barry's answer.

I think the only open question about Barry's response is: will Bartax's bannination be silent or announced?

Now we know the answer...
UD: Bartax is no longer with us

Date: 2012/09/17 08:39:52, Link
Author: Mindrover
Am I the only one who reads Marcuse's rants in the voice of a bongo-playing beat poet?

Date: 2012/10/17 20:56:41, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 17 2012,15:31)
Quote (Quack @ Oct. 17 2012,13:17)
A quick question:

Is a reasonable estimate available on how much money has been spent on OOL research?

A local IDiot claims billons of dollars have been spent and I don't think that's anywhere near true.

Edit typo.

The National Science Foundation FY2012 budget for all the biological sciences is $712.38 million (link). What percentage of that does the IDiot think is OOL research?

Math says 140%.

Date: 2013/08/22 10:19:24, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Driver @ Aug. 21 2013,17:02)
However, plainly to those who aren't in denial, there is a divide in the skeptic community and in the atheist community, and the divide is the same in both communities. Those who want to ignore minority issues and get on with pure not believing in god / not believing in the Loch Ness Monster; versus those who also want to tackle misogyny, racism, sexism etc in the movement and in society at large.

The same could be said for most organizations.

In all honesty, the PZ/Shermer/etc discussion has long ago reached the point where the specifics are best left to the courts and\or authorities. I can only hope that we can step back from the percieved "witch hunt" and "apologist" camps and start to have a discussion on where we should go from here.

Date: 2013/10/04 11:08:07, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Kantian Naturalist @ Oct. 03 2013,20:00)
I'm fairly sure that he thinks his "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" moment is well-deserved, after all the suffering he's taken from us, but from my point of view, all it does it make him look even more frightened and confused.
As well it should. Watch the scene again - it is the pitiful last gasp of a frightened, confused, self-important blowhard.

I find it fitting that the whole "Mad as hell" line keeps getting quotemined by those on the lunatic fringe.

Date: 2014/02/04 01:11:56, Link
Author: Mindrover
I know that this must come from the "Blindingly Obvious News" desk, but Joe cannot possibly be thinking his arguments through.

His argument that it is not up to ID to "prove a negative" regarding macroevolution is a prime example.

While Joe may be trying to draw parallels with James Randi's inability to disprove telepathy, he forgets the other part of the argument.

Joe has not been asked to form a coherent thesis from nothingness - he is being asked to provide evidence to his assertion that there is a barrier to macroevolution. While you cannot prove a negative, you can certainly disprove a positive argument.

This is not a case of "If never A then always B", this is a case of "explain why you say A can never happen". "B" is not even in the discussion.

All that we can take from this, avoiding derogatory cheap-shots, is that he cannot prove that macroevolution is wrong.

I congratulate Joe for admitting such.

Date: 2014/02/04 01:26:23, Link
Author: Mindrover
On further reflection, I may have fallen into the same trap that caught ID proponents - Anthropomorphization.

Date: 2014/02/11 07:41:56, Link
Author: Mindrover
No, I'm pretty sure that Joe thinks "Ball" is one of the states of matter (Water, Hail, Cake, Ball, etc).

Date: 2014/03/18 12:58:36, Link
Author: Mindrover
Quote (Quack @ Mar. 18 2014,05:55)
You are so formal:
As I mentioned the other day, I had a chance to attend the Reasons conference ( to hear Drs. Meyer and Dembski speak.

How about "Dr. Meyer and Dr. Dr. Dembski"?
But I am not a lawyer...

Wouldn't it be Drs. Meyer and Dr. Dembski? Akin to "Attorneys General".

Date: 2015/06/26 10:21:16, Link
Author: Mindrover
[Reads the news that SCOTUS ruled 5-4 in favour of Same-Sex Marriage.]

[Runs to COSTCO to buy enough popcorn for the inevitable KF meltdown.]

I might need to make two trips.

Date: 2015/09/30 06:14:59, Link
Author: Mindrover
[Grabs snacks; settles in]

This should is be fun.