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stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2006,10:35   

May I direct your attention to Unintelligent Reasoning, a fairly new blog by the Uncommonly Dense poster known as Joseph.

Quote

Intelligent Reasoning

Promoting, advancing and defending Intelligent Design via data, logic and Intelligent Reasoning.


They can't publish a theory to save their lives, but those IDiots sure can blog.

   
Dante



Posts: 61
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2006,12:26   

IR is more annoying than funny.

It needs a dose of Cordova.

--------------
Dembski said it, I laughed at it, that settles it!

    
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2006,12:42   

where does Salvador blog, anyway?

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2006,12:48   

Seriously. That guy is like a broken record. I think there's one quotation he uses THREE TIMES on that one page.

He posts at Kansas Citizens for Science sometimes (KCFS, where, btw, I post as "Connor J"), and he's a grade-A jerk, in addition to being utterly clueless. Suffice it to say, he has a deep problem with the concept of 'burden of proof.' He knows one thing about it: it's never on him.

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2006,12:50   

Re: where does Salvador blog, anyway?

steve, I don't think Sal has a blog. But his spew can frequently be found (if you can stand the smell) at ARN.

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2009,19:06   

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008/12/csi-of-baseball.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2009,19:46   

Scary, very scary:

https://www.blogger.com/comment....7&pli=1
Quote
Joe G said...

Dazza McTrazza looking to find an argument

But anyway it's too late. I am already on the school committee.

Also next month I will be presenting "Intelligent Design Awareness Day" to 8th and 9th graders.

That was helped along by "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed".

9:18 AM
Those poor, poor kids.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
csadams



Posts: 124
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2009,20:16   

Quote (FrankH @ Mar. 22 2009,19:46)
Scary, very scary:

https://www.blogger.com/comment....7&pli=1  
Quote
Joe G said...

Dazza McTrazza looking to find an argument

But anyway it's too late. I am already on the school committee.

Also next month I will be presenting "Intelligent Design Awareness Day" to 8th and 9th graders.

That was helped along by "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed".

9:18 AM
Those poor, poor kids.

I bet there are some parents in that school district who'd object if they knew about it.  The local newspapers might be interested, too.

--------------
Stand Up For REAL Science!

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2009,23:11   

I wonder if one of the reporters at the local papers would be interested in the threatening rhetoric spouted by a school committee member?

I'm sure that cires of "persecution!" would follow, but really, isn't it just seeking to spread the IDC message of respect and charity in communication to pass it on to the paper?

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,06:29   

Where does this old boy live?

I'd be happy to take it to the papers there or better yet if he lived around Raleigh.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,08:55   

Mwuahahahah!

Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT!

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841

Quote
At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said…

Measuring the CSI of a cake:

Given the following recipe:

• 1 cup cornmeal
• 3 cups all-purpose flour
• 1 1/3 cups white sugar
• 2 tablespoons baking powder
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 2/3 cup vegetable oil
• 1/3 cup melted butter
• 2 tablespoons honey
• 4 eggs, beaten
• 2 1/2 cups whole milk
• Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish.
• Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten.
• Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks.

A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters.

Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit.


Wow - 'the complete works of shakespear' can't have much information in it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:06   

Quote (FrankH @ Mar. 23 2009,07:29)
Where does this old boy live?

I'd be happy to take it to the papers there or better yet if he lived around Raleigh.

IIRC Joe lives in or around Manchester, NH.

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:37   

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....0107406

Quote
At 10:21 AM,  Joe G said…

AtBC:

Assholes that Beat Chicks

Assholes touching Boy's Crotches

Atrociously tasteless brutal cocksuckers

Anti-Thought Babbling Cretins


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:40   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,06:55)
Mwuahahahah!

Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT!

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841

Quote
At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said…

Measuring the CSI of a cake:

Given the following recipe:

• 1 cup cornmeal
• 3 cups all-purpose flour
• 1 1/3 cups white sugar
• 2 tablespoons baking powder
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 2/3 cup vegetable oil
• 1/3 cup melted butter
• 2 tablespoons honey
• 4 eggs, beaten
• 2 1/2 cups whole milk
• Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish.
• Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten.
• Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks.

A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters.

Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit.


Holy crap.  That boy is dumber than hog snot.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:47   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,09:37)
http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....0107406

Quote
At 10:21 AM,  Joe G said…

AtBC:

Assholes that Beat Chicks

Assholes touching Boy's Crotches

Atrociously tasteless brutal cocksuckers

Anti-Thought Babbling Cretins

that gets you a naked full frontal man hug from Clive....

just to be consistent.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,09:55   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 23 2009,09:47)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,09:37)
http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....0107406
Quote
At 10:21 AM,  Joe G said…

AtBC:

Assholes that Beat Chicks

Assholes touching Boy's Crotches

Atrociously tasteless brutal cocksuckers

Anti-Thought Babbling Cretins
that gets you a naked full frontal man hug from Clive....

just to be consistent.

That is a vision I did not need!

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:03   

Aw, he's closed comments. What a coward!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:12   

Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:14   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,10:12)
Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
 
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

Tarden isn't.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,10:48   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,10:14)
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,10:12)
Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
   
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

Tarden isn't.

So when did you stop beating cake batter? :p Cake batter-er!

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:09   

Quote
So if you really wanted to know the SI of a baseball all you have to do is to figure out how to make one, write down the instructions, and count the bits.


What is the CSI of this snowflake?



The BOM is easy: 1mg water

Now to make it all you need is a precise log of the path it took through the cloud, the temperature of the cloud at each point in the path and the electrical potential.

Of course to properly count the bits, we also have to define a gram, temperature and voltage.  Not to mention a control system to accurately steer the snowflake to the right place at the right time.

Clearly considerably more than  500 bits of information is required to define the manufacture of a snowflake.  Therefore a snowflake clearly possesses CSI and each is therefore intelligently designed.

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:11   

https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

Quote
Joe G said...
I only close comments when ignorant asshole licking pukes refuse to understand the points made and continue to act like child molesting woman beaters.

And as I said losers always laugh at things they cannot understand.

That is why you and your ilk are referred to as the Anti-thought Biting Cockroaches

11:59 AM


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:11)
https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

Quote
Joe G said...
I only close comments when ignorant asshole licking pukes refuse to understand the points made and continue to act like child molesting woman beaters.

And as I said losers always laugh at things they cannot understand.

That is why you and your ilk are referred to as the Anti-thought Biting Cockroaches

11:59 AM

Now you are just (as it were) gilding the lily, as I am absolutely sure that Clive Hayden has already put Joseph on moderation over at UD for his incivil behavior elsewhere.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:27   

Oh, dear.
   
Quote
So this is how I envision DNA- both sides of the ladder carry redundant information. One side does the work, that is transfers programming data to other molecules it contacts (mRNA for example) and the other side is a template for DNA replication.

Once DNA replication is complete the program is transferred to the newly constructed side via the hydrogen bonds that connect the two sides.

When other molecules are made- mRNA for example- they are given their instructions via the same hydrogen bonds. That information consists of editing instructions, as well as configuraion/ assembly instructions and destination instructions.

These instructions are not the sequence, rather they are embedded on the sequence, just as computer data is embedded on the disk.

Um... is he saying (I'm not sure what he's saying) that the two nucleotides in the base pairs are always alike? They're complementary, yes... "Instructions via the hydrogen bonds"? What?

"Embedded on the sequence"? Just as on a disk? What the hay is he talking about? Instructions embedded on the DNA nucleotides? I don't think so.

Both the leading and the lagging strands are replicated, not just one. What "program" is "transferred"? *Brainfahrt*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:28   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 23 2009,11:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:11)
https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

 
Quote
Joe G said...
I only close comments when ignorant asshole licking pukes refuse to understand the points made and continue to act like child molesting woman beaters.

And as I said losers always laugh at things they cannot understand.

That is why you and your ilk are referred to as the Anti-thought Biting Cockroaches

11:59 AM

Now you are just (as it were) gilding the lily, as I am absolutely sure that Clive Hayden has already put Joseph on moderation over at UD for his incivil behavior elsewhere.

He's just gone on a posting spree, so I doubt it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:33   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:28)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 23 2009,11:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:11)
https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

 
Quote
Joe G said...
I only close comments when ignorant asshole licking pukes refuse to understand the points made and continue to act like child molesting woman beaters.

And as I said losers always laugh at things they cannot understand.

That is why you and your ilk are referred to as the Anti-thought Biting Cockroaches

11:59 AM

Now you are just (as it were) gilding the lily, as I am absolutely sure that Clive Hayden has already put Joseph on moderation over at UD for his incivil behavior elsewhere.

He's just gone on a posting spree, so I doubt it.

I am shocked that Clive would allow such a blatant challenge to his authority to go unanswered for so long.  I mean, there is no question that Reciprocating Bill could be snarky when referencing UD, but Joseph is downright profane.  The only possible explanation is that Clive is tending to his day job and will get around to banning Joseph after the workday is over.  That must be it.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:36   

Joe is an IDist, so that would be censorship. RB is a rational, so he's just asking for it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JonF



Posts: 632
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:37   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,11:12)
Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
 
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

Um, until recently a character in computer storage took a byte (eight bits). Nowadays many programs store each character in two bytes, using Unicode, which allows many more characters (e.g. Arabic, ...). Neither scheme stores formatting.

Of course, it's even worse for Joe. He forgot to define what a cup is, what a degree F is, what corn meal is, what flour is, what a minute is, ... all that is information required to make cornbread.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,11:43   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:36)
Joe is an IDist, so that would be censorship. RB is a rational, so he's just asking for it.

No, Richard, you are wrong. Clive has a transcendental, objective moral code that would not allow such inconsistent treatment.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,12:02   

Quote (JonF @ Mar. 23 2009,11:37)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,11:12)
Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
     
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

Um, until recently a character in computer storage took a byte (eight bits). Nowadays many programs store each character in two bytes, using Unicode, which allows many more characters (e.g. Arabic, ...). Neither scheme stores formatting.

Of course, it's even worse for Joe. He forgot to define what a cup is, what a degree F is, what corn meal is, what flour is, what a minute is, ... all that is information required to make cornbread.

Oops, you're right, it's byte (gaaa). Thank you. As for the formatting, I got that from some professor... Eek. *Blush* Oh well, if one never says anything stupid, one doesn't learn anything. :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,13:41   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 23 2009,11:43)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,11:36)
Joe is an IDist, so that would be censorship. RB is a rational, so he's just asking for it.

No, Richard, you are wrong. Clive has a transcendental, objective moral code that would not allow such inconsistent treatment.

and that code appears to involve a secret taste for full frontal butt nekkid man hugs.

anyone know how to get in touch with Jive Clive Turkey?  I have no puppets but sweet jumped up Esther Naomi and Ruth I would love to see that stuff get linked on UD.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,15:28   

:(

Quote
Joe G said...
Richie Clive doesn't like bad language on the blog he moderates nor any bad language towards its contributors.

I am sure he is OK with me dealing with the trash in my way on my blog.

As for re-opening- Nope you have already proven to be a total asshole on that one.

However I will open a new thread discussing how to measure- MEASURE- information in a designed object.

That said seeing that you think a baseball and a cake can arise without information I am sure you will butcher any/ all efforts put forth.

It's what you do.

It's all you do.

It is all you have.

Ya see if you had something to support your position you would have brought it up in the threads I have dealing with biology.

Yet your comments are noticeably absent- pretty much like your mind.

AtBC:

Another tired Baby Crying.

4:04 PM


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,16:06   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,15:28)
:(

     
Quote
Joe G said...
Richie Clive doesn't like bad language on the blog he moderates nor any bad language towards its contributors.

I am sure he is OK with me dealing with the trash in my way on my blog.

As for re-opening- Nope you have already proven to be a total asshole on that one.

However I will open a new thread discussing how to measure- MEASURE- information in a designed object.

That said seeing that you think a baseball and a cake can arise without information I am sure you will butcher any/ all efforts put forth.

It's what you do.

It's all you do.

It is all you have.

Ya see if you had something to support your position you would have brought it up in the threads I have dealing with biology.

Yet your comments are noticeably absent- pretty much like your mind.

AtBC:

Another tired Baby Crying.

4:04 PM

Change "bits" to "bytes" and Answer the Banned Comment, Joseph!

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,16:13   

Who is John Galt Joe G? Own up!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,16:38   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,16:13)
Who is John Galt Joe G? Own up!

If Joe G would Go Galt, we'd all be better off.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,18:15   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 23 2009,12:33)
I mean, there is no question that Reciprocating Bill could be snarky when referencing UD...

God, I hope not.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Richard Simons



Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,18:51   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,08:55)
Joe has measured the CSI of a cake. NOT!

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2008....1061841

 
Quote
At 7:48 AM,  Joe G said…

Measuring the CSI of a cake:

Given the following recipe:

• 1 cup cornmeal
• 3 cups all-purpose flour
• 1 1/3 cups white sugar
• 2 tablespoons baking powder
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 2/3 cup vegetable oil
• 1/3 cup melted butter
• 2 tablespoons honey
• 4 eggs, beaten
• 2 1/2 cups whole milk
• Preheat oven to 350 degrees F (175 degrees C), and grease a 9x13 inch baking dish.
• Stir together the cornmeal, flour, sugar, baking powder, and salt in a mixing bowl. Pour in the vegetable oil, melted butter, honey, beaten eggs, and milk, and stir just to moisten.
• Pour the batter into the prepared baking dish and bake in the preheated oven for 45 minutes, until the top of the cornbread starts to brown and show cracks.

A simple character count reveals there are over 650 characters.

Therefor the minimum information that cake will contain is just over 650 bits if each character is a bit.

Interesting that changing the language of a description alters the CSI of an object.

--------------
All sweeping statements are wrong.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,21:39   

Quote
Interesting that changing the language of a description alters the CSI of an object.


Well, maybe CSI is a an attribute that can only be measured relative to that of something else?

No wait, that won't work, since in one language A might have the longer description but in another B might be the harder to describe.

Never mind.

Henry

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 23 2009,23:26   

What if you bake a baseball in the cake...?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,00:02   

What if before you bake the cake, you use the flour to spell out METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL.  When you mix it all back up again where does the information go?

How much more information is in that sweater NOW, compared to the sweater that he took off the rack and brought home from the christian ministries junk store?  

is there more information in the arrowhead a feller found this afternoon on the river bank, or one that some dude carves on his backporch with a dremel tool and sells to tourists?  because I wanna know.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,00:09   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 23 2009,19:11)
https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

 
Quote
Joe G said...
I only close comments when ignorant asshole licking pukes refuse to understand the points made and continue to act like child molesting woman beaters.

And as I said losers always laugh at things they cannot understand.

That is why you and your ilk are referred to as the Anti-thought Biting Cockroaches

11:59 AM

<sniffle> <boo hoo hoo>



What a TARD.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,00:26   

Hey Joe you want a spliff?

Quote
However I will open a new thread discussing how to measure- MEASURE- information in a designed object.


Yeah right,

So what should we bring ?



or



or


Quick everyone TO JOE'S LAB....




--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,07:03   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,18:02)
Quote (JonF @ Mar. 23 2009,11:37)
   
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,11:12)
Cross-post - Joe, this is respectfully meant.
       
Quote
Joe, excuse me. 665 characters including spaces do not add up to 665 bits of information in this context. Yes, until recently a character in computer programming took a bit of information storage (it's a little more now, due to formatting). No, that is not how one measures the information of this recipe.

It can have no more than 665 bits of information, but we are talking about memory storage here. One measures the information of a string in nits or nats (or nepits), in other words, in terms of entropy, expressed by the average number of bits needed for storage or communication.

I think you can now see that there is much redundancy in this recipe. Spaces are certainly redundancy. What are the other examples?

Don't assume that everyone at AtBC is a man, please.

Um, until recently a character in computer storage took a byte (eight bits). Nowadays many programs store each character in two bytes, using Unicode, which allows many more characters (e.g. Arabic, ...). Neither scheme stores formatting.

Of course, it's even worse for Joe. He forgot to define what a cup is, what a degree F is, what corn meal is, what flour is, what a minute is, ... all that is information required to make cornbread.

Oops, you're right, it's byte (gaaa). Thank you. As for the formatting, I got that from some professor... Eek. *Blush* Oh well, if one never says anything stupid, one doesn't learn anything. :)

Crikey! I must be the smartest person alive!

;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Spottedwind



Posts: 83
Joined: Aug. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,07:09   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 23 2009,13:02)
Oops, you're right, it's byte (gaaa). Thank you. As for the formatting, I got that from some professor... Eek. *Blush* Oh well, if one never says anything stupid, one doesn't learn anything. :)

Don't you know how this works Kristine?

You are supposed to deny, deflect, and dissemble about any supposed mistake.  You didn't even lash out.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...you'll never make it at UD.  :angry:

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,08:43   

More from the demented cheerleader:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ed.html

Quote
Measuring Information/ specified complexity
When discussing information some people want to know how much information does something contain?

If it is something straight-forward such as a definition, we can count the number of bits in that definition to find out how much information it contains.

For example:

aardvark: a large burrowing nocturnal mammal (Orycteropus afer) of sub-Saharan Africa that has a long snout, extensible tongue, powerful claws, large ears, and heavy tail and feeds especially on termites and ants


A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..

Now what do we do when all we have is an object?

One way of figuring out how much information it contains is to figure out how (the simplest way) to make it.

Then you write down the procedure without wasting words/ characters and count those bits.

That will give you an idea of the minimal information it contains.

I say that because all the information that goes into making something is therefor contained by it.

And if you already have the instructions and want to measure the information?

Again just count the bits in the instructions.

For example a cake would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the recipe.

Have you ever had to assemble something?

The object you assembled would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the assembly instructions.

Let the Richie Retardo arm flailing begin... (I will see you tomorrow)


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,08:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2009,08:43)
More from the demented cheerleader:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ed.html

Quote
Measuring Information/ specified complexity
When discussing information some people want to know how much information does something contain?

If it is something straight-forward such as a definition, we can count the number of bits in that definition to find out how much information it contains.

For example:

aardvark: a large burrowing nocturnal mammal (Orycteropus afer) of sub-Saharan Africa that has a long snout, extensible tongue, powerful claws, large ears, and heavy tail and feeds especially on termites and ants


A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..

Now what do we do when all we have is an object?

One way of figuring out how much information it contains is to figure out how (the simplest way) to make it.

Then you write down the procedure without wasting words/ characters and count those bits.

That will give you an idea of the minimal information it contains.

I say that because all the information that goes into making something is therefor contained by it.

And if you already have the instructions and want to measure the information?

Again just count the bits in the instructions.

For example a cake would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the recipe.

Have you ever had to assemble something?

The object you assembled would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the assembly instructions.

Let the Richie Retardo arm flailing begin... (I will see you tomorrow)



what an idiot.  he is going to run with this like he did being a muslim.

that means if you shave your initials into an aardvark it contains more information than an unshaven aardvark.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,08:54   

I propose 'Cakeboy' from here on in..

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
George



Posts: 314
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,09:08   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2009,08:43)
More from the demented cheerleader:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ed.html

 
Quote
Measuring Information/ specified complexity
When discussing information some people want to know how much information does something contain?

If it is something straight-forward such as a definition, we can count the number of bits in that definition to find out how much information it contains.

For example:

aardvark: a large burrowing nocturnal mammal (Orycteropus afer) of sub-Saharan Africa that has a long snout, extensible tongue, powerful claws, large ears, and heavy tail and feeds especially on termites and ants


A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..


From http://dictionary.reference.com/

human:  a human being.  

13 characters with spaces

Sphagnum: any soft moss of the genus Sphagnum, occurring chiefly in bogs, used for potting and packing plants, for dressing wounds, etc.

126 characters with spaces

Therefore moss is more intelligently designed than man.  At least some men.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,09:22   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2009,14:54)
I propose 'Cakeboy' from here on in..

Seconded.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1332
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,09:34   

I've seen ravens that had less Poe about them.

I mean, "count the letters in the dictionary"?

But hang on! A picture is worth 10^3 words. And a 'word' is (if I remember correctly, someone with a brain will put me right if I'm not) 32 bits. 'Two bits' means 25 US cents. So if I take a photo of a quarter-dollar, its FCSI is [(32/2)*10^3] = 16000 bits = $4000.00

Not a bad return on a quarter, especially in these impoverished [End-]times.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Quack



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,09:44   

Aardvark

How many bits, or bytes? Or slabs?

--------------
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself — and you are the easiest person to fool.
                                                                                               Richard Feynman

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,10:24   

Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,10:31   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2009,16:43)
More from the demented cheerleader:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ed.html

Quote
Measuring Information/ specified complexity
When discussing information some people want to know how much information does something contain?

If it is something straight-forward such as a definition, we can count the number of bits in that definition to find out how much information it contains.

For example:

aardvark: a large burrowing nocturnal mammal (Orycteropus afer) of sub-Saharan Africa that has a long snout, extensible tongue, powerful claws, large ears, and heavy tail and feeds especially on termites and ants


A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..

Now what do we do when all we have is an object?

One way of figuring out how much information it contains is to figure out how (the simplest way) to make it.

Then you write down the procedure without wasting words/ characters and count those bits.

That will give you an idea of the minimal information it contains.

I say that because all the information that goes into making something is therefor contained by it.

And if you already have the instructions and want to measure the information?

Again just count the bits in the instructions.

For example a cake would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the recipe.

Have you ever had to assemble something?

The object you assembled would, at a minimum, contain all the information in the assembly instructions.

Let the Richie Retardo arm flailing begin... (I will see you tomorrow)

Nup, hog snot is still smarter.

My only post to UD during the last very brief Glasnost was to KF to ask him to clarify his use of the word information.

In Information Theory there is a very definite difference between "function" and "information".

I asked Gordon Mullings / KF in which context WRT to Information Theory did his use of the word Information relate.

I later found out he was just an IT guy who worked at a race track and filled up his spare time writing letters to the editor and couldn't possibly have the foggiest notion of what I was asking him.

Joe G? Knows less.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,10:41   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,09:24)
Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?

Well, if it was a five minute drive, and he started at 1005...

But seriously, I reckon he assumed 5 bits per character, even though that allows only one case, and no more than 6 non-letter characters.

Henry

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,10:49   

Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 24 2009,18:41)
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,09:24)
Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?

Well, if it was a five minute drive, and he started at 1005...

But seriously, I reckon he assumed 5 bits per character, even though that allows only one case, and no more than 6 non-letter characters.

Henry

You could do it with 2 characters if you used a one time pad at each end of the channel.

He doesn't mention anything about error correction, channel bandwidth or encryption either.

But then Joe could just send the cake by snail mail if he really wanted to.

...psssst..... Joe put a file in it if you are sending it to your Mom. You never know she just might be able to escape...just a thought

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,10:51   

Things must be getting slow when Joe Gallien gets top slot here.

I don't know if it might amuse anyone, but Joe was threshing around at ARN a while back. In response to my innocent question:

 
Quote
How old are you, Joe? Twelve? Do you still suffer from coulrophobia?


I got:

 
Quote
How old are YOU Alan?

YOU are the one who insists on acting like a dick.

I, for one, am sick of it.

As I said if YOU want to fight we should take it off of this board and do it.

I say that because you do not seem interested in anything else.

And you certainly don't seem interested in anything except forcing your ignorance on to others.

IOW you haven't even reached the age of 12.

Do you still suffer from penis-envy?



Link

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:00   

How many times has Joe suggested physical confrontation to someone an ID or evolution board?

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:01   

Joe wants fisticuffs with everyone. And yet he's a retiree..


Bonus - look at the image I got from googling "angry old man" - its Gloppy!?



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:03   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 24 2009,11:00)
How many times has Joe suggested physical confrontation to someone an ID or evolution board?

He's really really brave behind his keyboard and the anonymity of the Internet. (Just like the rest of us!  :) )

That's science should be settled - fisticuffs! Thump the controversy!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:06   

UD Today

Barry, Joe, and Granny Tard.



--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:07   



Quote
Writer David Mirkin thinks that what makes Abe funny is that the "boring" and "tedium" things he says are "actually funny" in the context of the boring and the tedium.


--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:11   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 24 2009,17:03)
Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 24 2009,11:00)
How many times has Joe suggested physical confrontation to someone an ID or evolution board?

He's really really brave behind his keyboard and the anonymity of the Internet. (Just like the rest of us!  :) )

That's science should be settled - fisticuffs! Thump the controversy!

Hey!

I'm really brave, and I'll meet you in the car park of your choice to prove it. I'm not scared of clowns either (just professors ;-) )

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,11:50   

Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 24 2009,10:41)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,09:24)
Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?

Well, if it was a five minute drive, and he started at 1005...

But seriously, I reckon he assumed 5 bits per character, even though that allows only one case, and no more than 6 non-letter characters.

Henry

Because I see where he thinks he's going with this I perceive a typo - well, let's see if my comment appears.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 24 2009,15:43   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,11:50)
Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 24 2009,10:41)
   
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,09:24)
Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?

Well, if it was a five minute drive, and he started at 1005...

But seriously, I reckon he assumed 5 bits per character, even though that allows only one case, and no more than 6 non-letter characters.

Henry

Because I see where he thinks he's going with this I perceive a typo - well, let's see if my comment appears.

*Checks watch*
Quote
Did you intend to type 1616 instead of 1010?

Silence reigns. I should have said 1818 just for kicks.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,08:17   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,15:43)
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,11:50)
Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 24 2009,10:41)
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 24 2009,09:24)
Can someone tell me how he arrived at 1010?
Well, if it was a five minute drive, and he started at 1005...

But seriously, I reckon he assumed 5 bits per character, even though that allows only one case, and no more than 6 non-letter characters.

Henry
Because I see where he thinks he's going with this I perceive a typo - well, let's see if my comment appears.
*Checks watch*
Quote
Did you intend to type 1616 instead of 1010?
Silence reigns. I should have said 1818 just for kicks.

What if it's 1812?

Can we get an overture for that?

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,08:57   

He's baaaaaack:


https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,09:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,16:57)
He's baaaaaack:


https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

Oh Christ I laffed my ass right off and it fell on the floor and rolled out the door down the steps all the way to the beach and swam out to a waiting cruise ship boarded it and had a holiday in Thailand.

WITHOUT ME YOU FREAKING HOMO!!!!!

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,09:55   

He's digging in for an embattled defense..

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,10:10   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,17:55)
He's digging in for an embattled defense..

OK, do we send him guns or butter?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Richardthughes



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,10:12   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 25 2009,10:10)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,17:55)
He's digging in for an embattled defense..

OK, do we send him guns or butter?

Butter. being a longer word, it has more CSI and so is more useful.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,10:14   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,11:12)
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 25 2009,10:10)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,17:55)
He's digging in for an embattled defense..

OK, do we send him guns or butter?

Butter. being a longer word, it has more CSI and so is more useful.

The very best butter?

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
J-Dog



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Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,10:26   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,10:12)
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 25 2009,10:10)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,17:55)
He's digging in for an embattled defense..

OK, do we send him guns or butter?

Butter. being a longer word, it has more CSI and so is more useful.

Based on this, and of course that he spends his day with his head surrounded by his own, Joe would get even MORE use out of the word buttocks.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,11:46   

I think he's trying to measure the CSI of insults now:

https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,11:55   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,11:46)
I think he's trying to measure the CSI of insults now:

https://www.blogger.com/comment....&page=1

He's got the "How To Run An ID Blog" rules down - I tried to blog over there but got this famous IC statement:  

"Your comment has been saved and will be visible after
blog owner approval. "

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,12:59   

Yes, I know how to multiply, Joe.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,13:37   

You want to multiply with Joe?


*Reverse Shimmy*

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,13:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:37)
You want to multiply with Joe?


*Reverse Shimmy*

OT: What is a shimmy?

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,13:53   

Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,13:52)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:37)
You want to multiply with Joe?


*Reverse Shimmy*

OT: What is a shimmy?

So you know when you get a lapdance and ...


oh, HEDDLE..right....


So you know when you GIVE a lapdance...

J/K Dave  :D

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,13:57   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:53)
Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,13:52)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:37)
You want to multiply with Joe?


*Reverse Shimmy*

OT: What is a shimmy?

So you know when you get a lapdance and ...


oh, HEDDLE..right....


So you know when you GIVE a lapdance...

J/K Dave  :D

Ahh, so this is a shimmy.

Then I don't understand what a "reverse shimmy" is. It would appear to be time reversal invariant.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,14:01   

It's only for pros like Tarden and Carlson:

http://ats.tribe.net/thread/0d98e825-8f43-4660-a5f9-31030bcb09c1

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,14:14   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,14:01)
It's only for pros like Tarden and Carlson:

http://ats.tribe.net/thread/0d98e825-8f43-4660-a5f9-31030bcb09c1

I always say that a day is not successful unless I learn something new. Mission accomplished.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,14:16   

Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,14:14)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,14:01)
It's only for pros like Tarden and Carlson:

http://ats.tribe.net/thread/0d98e825-8f43-4660-a5f9-31030bcb09c1

I always say that a day is not successful unless I learn something new. Mission accomplished.

Learn by doing, Dave. Then post a Youtube. Then link here so we can mock enjoy.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,14:18   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,14:16)
Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,14:14)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,14:01)
It's only for pros like Tarden and Carlson:

http://ats.tribe.net/thread/0d98e825-8f43-4660-a5f9-31030bcb09c1

I always say that a day is not successful unless I learn something new. Mission accomplished.

Learn by doing, Dave. Then post a Youtube. Then link here so we can mock enjoy.

I dance better than Al Gore. That's all I'll say.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,14:38   

Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,13:57)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:53)
   
Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 25 2009,13:52)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 25 2009,13:37)
You want to multiply with Joe?


*Reverse Shimmy*

OT: What is a shimmy?

So you know when you get a lapdance and ...


oh, HEDDLE..right....


So you know when you GIVE a lapdance...

J/K Dave  :D

Ahh, so this is a shimmy.

Then I don't understand what a "reverse shimmy" is. It would appear to be time reversal invariant.

That's only a shoulder shimmy. Here.
There are no "reverse shimmies" Rich, sorry. You shimmied at Joe. :p Who had better make my comments appear!

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2009,17:07   

Anybody awake over at Joe's?
Quote
Joe:    
Quote
202 x 5 = 1010

Me: Yes, very good. 5 bits per character? Why? And are you assuming one case only?

Quote
Joe:    
Quote
It is the DEFINITION that gives the word any information.*

Me: Wait a minute. What do you mean by that? English literature does not equal information theory.

Which has more information:
the word "plus"
or
+
?

"Methinks it is like a weasel"
or
"AJEODSFL;PWERNPSRESJKLP

Methinks it not go pop.

*Sounds very much like: These instructions are not the sequence, rather they are embedded on the sequence, just as computer data is embedded on the disk.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,00:07   

My god designer.

Joseph: Not even fractally wrong. Or would that be Joseph: Fractally not even wrong ?

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,07:38   

This is funny:
Quote
At 7:29 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

Quote
Yes, very good. 5 bits per character? Why? Are you assuming one case only?


Does the information content change if the letters are capitalized?

IOW would the definition change?

No.

So why complicate things?


I have a cake recipe.  It says

Quote
add 2 t of baking soda


or

Quote
ADD 2 T OF BAKING SODA


Same information?  Same cake?

One thing's for sure: I'm not eating at Joe's house.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,09:05   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 24 2009,11:00)
How many times has Joe suggested physical confrontation to someone an ID or evolution board?

I don't know, but I may have been among the first.  I guess it must have been about 8-9 years ago on the old OCW forum.  He was his usual self, and a few of us had put him in his place on the issues and we all know that little Joey don't like that.

He posted my full name and my home address in a post, and later wrote that he might be passing through, and that "not everyone goes to Vermont to ski".

It came up again on NAIG shortly thereafter, and I'd had enough. We only live a few hours apart, and spring break was coming up, so I told him to give me a time and a place, and I'd be there.  He was suddenly too busy to post for about a week, and on the last day of my spring break, when the thread was about to scroll off the board, he makes a post boasting an 'anytime' sort of thing, then later claimed that I had chickened out.

He later 'challeneged' Chris Seibold and Robert R., and who knows who else, and I know dates and places had been discussed for at least a couple of people - Chris showed up at the agreed to time and place, Joey didn't, but he later claimed to have been there waiting (but could not accuratley describe anything at the venu) - or was that Blipey?  Or has that happened on more than one occasion?
I stopped interacting with him shortly thereafter, but I can only imagine how many times he's done this.

He's a classic internet bully/punk - talks tough when he knows there is little chance of actual confrontation, shows himself to be a big talking pussy when his bluff is called.

As an aside - he did also write of having had back surgery and to have re-injured himself in Iraq (I guess digging latrines is hard work).  Just mentioning a choice target and an obvious handicap, just in case... :p

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,09:16   

Joe is a wanna-be bully. Like the tiny dog that yaps and yaps, the advert oversells the reality. As he's recently retired, I suspect that telling you to 'get of his lawn' is as testy as it gets.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,09:38   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 26 2009,07:38)
This is funny:
   
Quote
At 7:29 AM, Blogger Joe G said…

   
Quote
Yes, very good. 5 bits per character? Why? Are you assuming one case only?


Does the information content change if the letters are capitalized?

IOW would the definition change?

No.

So why complicate things?


I have a cake recipe.  It says

   
Quote
add 2 t of baking soda


or

   
Quote
ADD 2 T OF BAKING SODA


Same information?  Same cake?

One thing's for sure: I'm not eating at Joe's house.

Yes, I let that one go. (For one thing, I have added too much baking soda to a cake. If you’ve made it for a cakewalk at the neighborhood organization’s picnic and the moochers show up for free food, believe me they’ll eat it and like it.) I just notice that he's UPPING the 5-bit ANTE whenever HE FEELS LIKE IT. ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,09:57   

On the next thread, he's telling me why evolution didn't happen.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,10:02   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 26 2009,09:57)
On the next thread, he's telling me why evolution didn't happen.

All I can think of is to borrow a phrase from 2001 (if memory serves):

"It's full of idiots."

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,10:05   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 26 2009,09:57)
On the next thread, he's telling me why evolution didn't happen.

Because there's no such thing as accumulated small teaspoons, I guess.

Joe:  
Quote
I am talking about plain ole black & white information that humans (in general) use on a daily basis.

Then why refer to "information"?

Are you saying that a definition of a word isn't information?

WTF?
Oh, JHC.
Kristine:  
Quote
No, Joe, that is not what I am saying. Calm down. I am saying that you are conflating different defintions and therefore making a fallacious argument.

The definition of a word as you use it here (plain use) has nothing to do with the amount of information in the word in Shannon's terms. You're confusing the two.

Anyway, look at a recipe and see if t and T are not in fact different amounts of baking soda. (t = teaspoon, T = tablespoon) I'm doing you a favor, you see?

Joe's putting on his wife-beater t-shirt and stomping to the kitchen, I suspect.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,10:18   

Joe G = Walter Mitty


http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y141082

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,10:23   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 26 2009,10:05)
Oh, JHC.
Kristine:  
Quote
No, Joe, that is not what I am saying. Calm down. I am saying that you are conflating different defintions and therefore making a fallacious argument.

The definition of a word as you use it here (plain use) has nothing to do with the amount of information in the word in Shannon's terms. You're confusing the two.

Anyway, look at a recipe and see if t and T are not in fact different amounts of baking soda. (t = teaspoon, T = tablespoon) I'm doing you a favor, you see?

Joe's putting on his wife-beater t-shirt and stomping to the kitchen, I suspect.

Ah, but 2T = 6t and, by Joe's methodology, 2t and 6t have the same amount of information.  Therefore, his point stands.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,11:06   

Joe comes as close as he ever will to conceding the elusive nature of CSI:  
Quote
One final note- the point of CSI is to know whether or not it is present. Its presence is a signal of intentional design. Getting an exact number, although good for parlor games, may or may not be of any use scientifically.

Shorter CSI: we just know it's designed.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,11:21   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 26 2009,11:06)
Joe comes as close as he ever will to conceding the elusive nature of CSI:      
Quote
One final note- the point of CSI is to know whether or not it is present. Its presence is a signal of intentional design. Getting an exact number, although good for parlor games, may or may not be of any use scientifically.

Shorter CSI: we just know it's designed.

Present in what way? Animals engage in sexual selection. It's not intelligent design in the way Joe means, but it's not random. Shall we redefine intelligence as any nonrandom selection, or as a strategy involving an instinct? Because that's what he's doing!

Do they really want to make, say, ducks the Designer? :O

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,11:49   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 26 2009,10:21)
Do they really want to make, say, ducks the Designer? :O

Sounds like a Daffy idea. :p

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,16:24   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 26 2009,09:57)
On the next thread, he's telling me why evolution didn't happen.

Well, here.
Quote
"The model of punctuated equilibria does not maintain that nothing occurs gradually at any level of evolution. It is a theory about speciation and its deployment in the fossil record. It claims that an important pattern, continuous at higher levels—the 'classic' macroevolutionary trend—is a consequence of punctuation in the evolution of species. It does not deny that allopatric speciation occurs gradually in ecological time (though it might not—see Carson, 1975), but only asserts that this scale is a geological microsecond."
Gould and Eldredge. (1977). "Invalid claims of gradualism made at the wrong scale." p.121.
We’ll see if this falls into a hole.

Joe must be thinking really hard about what I said about teaspoons and Tablespoons. Yeah that must be it.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
clamboy



Posts: 188
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,18:35   

I find it hard to believe that no one...NO ONE, I say...has pointed out that Joe G's cake recipe calls for:

1) adding the WET ingredients to the DRY ingredients

AND.....(dear lord! *choke*).....

2) adding them ONE  AT  A  TIME!!!!!

This is supposed to be a cake! A CAKE, DAMN YOUR EYES!!! NOT.....MUFFINS!!!!!!!

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,21:51   

There is so much quotable stupidity in this cake argument.  It's just rich and delicious, slice after slice.   They're like little tard koans.  Observe:

Quote
The recipe itself carries with it all the definitions of the words it contains.

And again:
Quote
The more information it takes the farher it is away from being reducible to matter, energy, chance and necessity.

Et voilŕ!
Quote
So if you really wanted to know the SI of a something all you have to do is to figure out how to make one, write down the instructions, and count the bits.

That's right folks.  Write down the instructions.  Count the bits.  Measure SI!  Or the CSI.  Whatevs.
Quote
Does the information content change if the letters are capitalized?

IOW would the definition change?

No.

Are you feeling stupid yet?  
Quote
My point is the cake that is baked contains all the information that was used in baking it.

A little Dr. Seussy there, huh?  
Quote
Each cake contains the information required to make it.
What if it's only half-baked?

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,22:07   

You can have your CSI and eat it, too.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,22:55   

which one of you guys is joe again?

lenny?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 26 2009,23:22   

Quote
I will say it again- the ONLY reason to ask for the CSI of something is you question how it came to be that way.


ALL SCIENCE SO FAR

Quote
One final note- the point of CSI is to know whether or not it is present. Its presence is a signal of intentional design. Getting an exact number, although good for parlor games, may or may not be of any use scientifically.


'exact number' not being different from zero not a problem

Tom Ames has good intentions but these are parlor games remember
Quote
Actually, an important chunk of the information that goes into the development of, say, a Drosophila embryo comes from gradients in the egg that are determined by the mother. The information arising from these "maternal effects" are not necessarily encoded anywhere in the offspring's genome.


KF, plato, cave, sadly always linked etc.  great windup, Tom, I was eagerly awaiting Joes response.  not disappointed
Quote
So what?

Does that mean the offspring does not contain that information?


SO!!!??  WHAT???!!!!

I would offer here using 'information' as an abstraction for the processes that generate phenotypes is not helpful.  Joe already demonstrates a Pavlovian response to the term and his glaze over, he takes it literally as a property of matter.  And has resisted thinking it through, clearly.

'the offspring', he says, contains that phenotype as 'information'.  Tom refers to the influence of external factors on the development of a phenotype, factors that recursive nonlinear processes.  Joe appears to be under the notion that information is some sort of essential property but has delusions that it may be measured somehow although it is not important but he can do it and you are stupid because you want to see behind the curtain but he will show you because he is a swell guy.  and then doesn't.

maybe i'm wrong.  i don't know what the fuck he is on about.

oleg can't resist punching the pinata
Quote
If I make two cakes from the same recipe, do they contain twice as much information?


that has bearing on the rambling above.  i can't wait to see his answer.  that's what makes this good tard.

Quote
Each cake contains the information rtequired in making it.

That is it. Period.

"Twice as much information" is irrelevant" to the point being made.

Do you understand the point- that designed objects contain the information used in making them?


Quote
Now if you took a recipe and doubled it to make one BIG cake, then that big cake would contain all the information required to make it.

WHATEVER that information was.


I mean shit you people don't understand that yet?

roflmao.  WHAT?  It's irrelevant, just forget you saw it.  You saw nothing.  Look over there.

Oleg says "look sugar we need to measure this stuff if we are going to use it.  help us out, pretty please" or something like that.  this is good

Quote
You NEED to know?

NEED?

I don't believe you.

What do you need it for?


BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

oleg tries one more time to get the point across.
Quote
If your information is contained in a cake, then I would say that it should be additive.


ever seen that dog on americas funniest home videos that keeps attacking its feet?

Quote
It isn't "my" information.

Do you understand the point? Yes or No.

The point being that a designed object contains the information required to make it.

Do you agree or disagree?

If you agree then fine we have nothing left to discuss in this thread.

If you disagree fine also. Just demonstrate that a cake can arise without agency involvement.


agree with WHAT?  do you agree that seven jumped over anger while malevolence did the moonwalk?

Demonstrating why Richard T Hughes is one of my favorite tard warriors
Quote
Why isn't this Front Page at UD?


hahaha it might as well be, these days.

you guys are too good to that poor fool.  what a great read.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,00:06   

Quote
I would offer here using 'information' as an abstraction for the processes that generate phenotypes is not helpful.  Joe already demonstrates a Pavlovian response to the term and his glaze over, he takes it literally as a property of matter. And has resisted thinking it through, clearly.


Nice one 'Ras but clearly you are over crediting his ...erm  'thinking'.

In Joe's case .....resistance truly is futile.

Don't worry Joe you'll never work that one out.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,00:34   

I did done if for you, Rasser.

Pavlova response? Glaze..




Cake, Sponge and Icing...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,00:37   

"Copy this sentence"

Self-replication well under the UPB...  :p

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,00:55   

But... but... Joe! I'm confused! What about the info added by the frosting?



If dingleberry doesn't make my comments appear, I might bake a cake, write down all the instructions, get my bingo club together, go out to his place and ring his doorbell, and throw the damn cake along with the stupid "information" (after I tear it into bits) at his head.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,04:03   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 27 2009,00:55)
If dingleberry doesn't make my comments appear, I might bake a cake, write down all the instructions, get my bingo club together, go out to his place and ring his doorbell, and throw the damn cake along with the stupid "information" (after I tear it into bits) at his head.

Oh noes!!1!1!1!!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,07:48   

looks like he is riding the New Scientist tard train now.

joe is too dumb to talk to.  i really enjoy when you guys play with him.  i don't have the patience.  i would however like to see him and KF fight to the death with ball point pens.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,08:04   

Here is my latest reply to Joe, in which I prove that the CSI of a cake is zero.  The proof is based on Joe's own length-of-recipe definition and common assumptions about information and entropy (e.g. additivity).  

     
Quote

Ya see oleg it is AS I HAVE STATED:

A designed object contains all the information that went into making it.

Yes or no- Do you understand that point?



Before I can agree or disagree with a statement I need to have a clear understanding of it. You have steadfastly refused to define your terms, so I will have to fill in the blanks as best I can.

On the basis of what you have said and by using what little I know about information and statistics I am forced to conclude that the information content of a cake is zero. Others in this thread and at AtBC have hinted at this outcome, but here is my simple proof.

Here are my assumptions. First, I assume along with you that the amount of CSI X in a cake is determined by the number of letters in the recipe. I further assume that CSI, like Shannon information and entropy, is an additive quantity. The third and final assumption is that CSI, like entropy, is a function of state: if two cakes are the same in size and taste, they contain equal amounts of CSI. It does not matter how they were prepared.

It follows from these assumptions that the amount of CSI in a cake X=0. To see why this is so, note that the amount of CSI in 2 cakes of the same size is X+X because CSI is additive. On the other hand, a recipe for preparing two cakes can be obtained from a recipe for one by appending the single-word sentence Repeat. It follows that the amount of CSI in the second cake X is based on the number of letters in the sentence Repeat.

While that already is a pretty minimal amount of information, we can shrink it a bit further. 4 cakes can be made by appending to the modified recipe another single-word sentence Repeat. The amount of CSI contained in the two new cakes, 2X, is again based on the number of letters in the sentence Repeat. Thus 2X = X, which means X = 0. Q.E.D.

I hope this answers your question, Joe.


ETA: edited for clarity.

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Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,09:30   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 27 2009,04:03)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 27 2009,00:55)
If dingleberry doesn't make my comments appear, I might bake a cake, write down all the instructions, get my bingo club together, go out to his place and ring his doorbell, and throw the damn cake along with the stupid "information" (after I tear it into bits) at his head.

Oh noes!!1!1!1!!

I'm not that old, Carsonjok.;)

Joe blows:
 
Quote
Kristine,

Someone should tell Dawkins about PE.

He dedicates a chapter to destroying it (an attempt anyway) in his book "The Blind Watchmaker", because it gores against gradualism- according to him.

Me:  
Quote
Joe, if Dawkins devoted a chapter to PE, I don't have to tell him about it, do I? As a matter of fact, he and I had a discussion about it. It's not the devastation of ToE that creationists think it is. Sorry, but you're harkening back to the old "equal time for creation science" arguments, and as much as I miss the 1970s, I really don't relish this dredged up again.

edited to enable emote.:)

Edited by Kristine on Mar. 27 2009,09:31

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,09:33   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 27 2009,01:55)
But... but... Joe! I'm confused! What about the info added by the frosting?



If dingleberry doesn't make my comments appear, I might bake a cake, write down all the instructions, get my bingo club together, go out to his place and ring his doorbell, and throw the damn cake along with the stupid "information" (after I tear it into bits) at his head.

Theme song for UD (youtube)

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
George



Posts: 314
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,09:43   

Quote (clamboy @ Mar. 26 2009,18:35)
I find it hard to believe that no one...NO ONE, I say...has pointed out that Joe G's cake recipe calls for:

1) adding the WET ingredients to the DRY ingredients

AND.....(dear lord! *choke*).....

2) adding them ONE  AT  A  TIME!!!!!

This is supposed to be a cake! A CAKE, DAMN YOUR EYES!!! NOT.....MUFFINS!!!!!!!

Excellent point.  Joe's no cakeboy.  He's... the Muffin Man!  Hard at work in the laboratory of his Unintelligent Muffin Research Kitchen.

"Girl you thought he was a man
But he was a muffin
He hung around till you found
That he didnt know nuthin"
- F. Zappa

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,09:47   

Or maybe this?

TEH CAEK IS A LIE!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,09:55   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 27 2009,07:48)
looks like he is riding the New Scientist tard train now.

joe is too dumb to talk to.  i really enjoy when you guys play with him.  i don't have the patience.  i would however like to see him and KF fight to the death with ball point pens.

I can hear the Star Trek fight music now....

On the other hand, has anybody tried to figure the CSI of Soylent Cakes?

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:01   

Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:27   

The beautiful thing about Joe is that he won't let it go.  He proves that tard is not a conserved quantity; it contains no CSI and can therefore be produced without limit.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
AmandaHuginKiss



Posts: 150
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:28   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 28 2009,03:01)
Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

Not only that you need to develop the recipe in such a way that aliens can interpret it otherwise it is just some random gibberish

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:36   

Quote (AmandaHuginKiss @ Mar. 27 2009,10:28)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 28 2009,03:01)
Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

Not only that you need to develop the recipe in such a way that aliens can interpret it otherwise it is just some random gibberish

TEH_DESIGNER IS A MASTERBAKER.

Joe is one mutation of "K" away from the designer.
He's also a mass-debater.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:38   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 27 2009,10:01)
Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

ALLRIGHT GODDAMMIT YOU GET YOUR OWN DIRT FLOUR.

keiths that is the beautiful part of the Mullah Joe G.  he can't let it go, and doesn't have the logorrhea that makes the can't-admit-error quality so aggravating in other tards (I'm thinking of Gordon Mullings).  

so you get the great insults from Mullah and from KF you get a random word sample from the "sadly evo-mat hyperskepticism onlookers always linked" phrase table.

I like my tard concise and far from the point!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:39   

Quote (keiths @ Mar. 27 2009,10:27)
The beautiful thing about Joe is that he won't let it go.  He proves that tard is not a conserved quantity; it contains no CSI and can therefore be produced without limit.

He's like a weasel with a rag dipped in rabbit-juice.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 540
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:42   

Quote (AmandaHuginKiss @ Mar. 27 2009,10:28)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 28 2009,03:01)
Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

Not only that you need to develop the recipe in such a way that aliens can interpret it otherwise it is just some random gibberish

I sense a novel here --it opens medias res with Richard Hughes eating a Hostess Hoho--and employs flashback to explain how the recipe arrived encoded in EPCDIC (lower case only.)

EDIT: spelling

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:47   

I THINK YOU'LL FIND HOSTESSES EAT ME, NOT VICEY VERSEY.  :angry:

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:48   

It's a textbook example of the inverse relationship between 'insults' and 'having a point'.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,10:55   

Joes *Hearts* Oleg:

Quote
am not here to prove that a cake can arise spontaneously.

Yet you said you had "proof" it doesn't require any information.

I am helping you evaluate its information content.

You are a legend in your own mind.

With your "help" nothing would ever get accomplished.

I took your own procedure and showed formally that it gives zero information content.

You bastardized my procedure and twisted it to get some nonsensical result.

So I will say it again-

If YOUR "proof"/ outcome had any merit then you should be able to demonstrate a cake arising without information.

Failure to produce such a demonstration is a strong indication that YOU are full of shit.

Is that clear enough?


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,11:15   

Joe just told the little woman to butt out. Yeah, I'm not going to beat myself up trying to knock some sense into your head, Joe.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,11:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 27 2009,18:55)
Joes *Hearts* Oleg:

 
Quote
am not here to prove that a cake can arise spontaneously.

Yet you said you had "proof" it doesn't require any information.

I am helping you evaluate its information content.

You are a legend in your own mind.

With your "help" nothing would ever get accomplished.

I took your own procedure and showed formally that it gives zero information content.

You bastardized my procedure and twisted it to get some nonsensical result.

So I will say it again-

If YOUR "proof"/ outcome had any merit then you should be able to demonstrate a cake arising without information.

Failure to produce such a demonstration is a strong indication that YOU are full of shit.

Is that clear enough?

Joe should give up baking and do eggs instead.

They're a lot easier Joe.

Here's what you do.

1.Wake up.

2. Boil water.

3. Put in egg

4. Sumersault naked into kitchen grab spoon toss egg onto nearest asshole and enjoy.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,12:33   

Man that dialogue with oleg is funny.  Joe sure knows how to have a conversation.

oleg, I bow to you.  Your patience and dry wit are enviable.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,14:20   

Quote (dheddle @ Mar. 27 2009,10:42)
   
Quote (AmandaHuginKiss @ Mar. 27 2009,10:28)
     
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 28 2009,03:01)
Don't you have to follow all the sub-ingredients down until you have to make matter?

Not only that you need to develop the recipe in such a way that aliens can interpret it otherwise it is just some random gibberish

I sense a novel here --it opens medias res with Richard Hughes eating a Hostess Hoho--and employs flashback to explain how the recipe arrived encoded in EPCDIC (lower case only.)

EDIT: spelling

Not to mention you'd also have to follow all the "definitions" of all the words in the recipe down to the definitions of the words in the definitions, and then in each of those definitions, etc., etc.

So, I go figure skating and trace a figure-8 in the ice, it's worth 8 ASCII bits? Because what about if I change to doing a rocker or a loop? I'm not aware of any written instructions on how to learn, really learn, figure skating. You have to learn from another human being, through imitation. Does this mean that skating has no content, Joe? Because I would argue that it contains a lot more information than football (but maybe we shouldn't go there).

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,14:23   

I put on my hip-waders and posted a comment.  I pointed out that oleg is not saying the cake contains no information but only that Joe's way of talking about information is nonsensical.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,14:28   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 27 2009,14:23)
I put on my hip-waders and posted a comment.  I pointed out that oleg is not saying the cake contains no information but only that Joe's way of talking about information is nonsensical.

He'll be 'round your house with his buddies in no time..

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,15:17   

I think this may be my flounce-out.
Joe:  
Quote
Kristine,

There isn't any evidence that would demonstrate any amount of genetic change can account for the differences observed betwen organisms.

There isn't any evidence for cumulative selection leading to new body plans and new protein machinery.

Nothing.

So stick that in your evidence pipe, hon.

Moi:  
Quote
Joe G, you just show me how to "stick it in my evidence pipe." I would really love to see if you can find it.

What a jerk. Scientists take heed! The retired airline pilot has spoken!

ETA - Down tigers! Down! :p

Edited by Kristine on Mar. 27 2009,15:24

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,15:28   

Poor Cakeboy! Normally I'd feel bad, but he deserves it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,15:41   

Hermagoras,

it's pointless to argue with Joe at this point.  He has painted himself into a corner.  Any further responses from him will be insults.  I'm done.

--------------
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please Logout »

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,15:57   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 27 2009,15:41)
Hermagoras,

it's pointless to argue with Joe at this point.  He has painted himself into a corner.  Any further responses from him will be insults.  I'm done.

oleg I am being generous to say that I never expected much more from him than that.

but well played, you have reduced him to a sniveling pile of man-queef.  and with such style!  I second hermagoras.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,15:58   

Joe's continuing temper tantrum:
Quote
So I will say it again-

If YOUR "proof"/ outcome had any merit then you should be able to demonstrate a cake arising without information.

Failure to produce such a demonstration is a strong indication that YOU are full of shit.

Is that clear enough?

This is completely silly.  

His position is "A, therefore B," where
A = a cake contains lots of Joe-information,
B = a cake cannot arise spontaneously.  

I show that A is false.  What does he do?  He ascribes to me the position "not A, therefore not B."  

Talk about a non sequitur!

--------------
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please Logout »

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,16:02   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 27 2009,15:41)
Hermagoras,

it's pointless to argue with Joe at this point.  He has painted himself into a corner.  Any further responses from him will be insults.  I'm done.

Oleg, I'll tell you what. How about I just go to Lunds and have the recipe spray-frostinged onto the cake? Maybe that will resolve the issue.

Naturally, I'll have them write it in binary, because that's less fattening.

Joe decorates a cake.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,16:13   

Quote (olegt @ Mar. 27 2009,15:58)
Talk about a non sequitur!

I NO THAT YOU OUR BUT WHAT AM I?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,16:53   

Whatever.


--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,16:56   

Hi Oleg,

I'm sure you have figured this out already, but Joe is very much in denial and has a blind spot about what he means when he says something contains information.

I had tangled with Joe in 2006 challenging him to a debate on a "level playing field".

I attempted as you did to get Joe to qualify his definition of "information content".

Quote
I am interested in having Joe expound on his term "information content". Can non-living things have "information content"? For example, does a simple rock contain information (e.g. weight, mass, dimensions, etc)? If that is the case, do two rocks contain more information than one rock (not necessarily double, just more)?


Joe simply refused to even acknowledge my request, much less answer it, even though I asked it multiple times.

In case you are interested
here is the link to the thread.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,16:59   

My new post - let's see if it makes sees the light of day:

Quote
Joe, such a potty mouth - I don't think the school board will approve.

"He showed me that he could take my idea and twist it."

That'd be a pretzel then, which presumably would have MORE information?


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,17:01   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 27 2009,15:28)
Poor Cakeboy! Normally I'd feel bad, but he deserves it.

He didn't get it anyway, probably because he doesn't.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
KCdgw



Posts: 376
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,17:07   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 27 2009,17:01)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 27 2009,15:28)
Poor Cakeboy! Normally I'd feel bad, but he deserves it.

He didn't get it anyway, probably because he doesn't.

What a frakking maroon.

KC

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,17:08   

Joe has a blind spot (reality).  Let's leave it at that.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 27 2009,17:18   


I'll get the knife.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,21:24   

Oh, Oleg, Joe has spanked you good:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ck.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,22:06   

i honestly believe y'all made him cry some.  man what an angry tard.  i would like to see him fight a swarm of bees.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,22:19   

I sent what I thought was a helpful comment about what an asshole he was being.  Of course he didn't let it get posted.

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,22:51   

Joe is in a state of denial.  
 
Quote
What does this have to do with oleg? Oleg said:
 
Quote
First, I assume along with you that the amount of CSI X in a cake is determined by the number of letters in the recipe.


Seems like a real stupid assumption now doesn’t it. And it certainly ain’t what I assumed at all.

Joe the Information Technologist 1- oleg the information theorist 0

Yet letter count is precisely what he suggested in a previous post, repeating it three times!
 
Quote
A simple character count reveals 202 characters which translates into 1010 bits of information/ specified complexity..

you write down the procedure without wasting words/ characters and count those bits.

Again just count the bits in the instructions.

Poor guy.

--------------
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k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,23:04   

Code Sample
Poor guy.



Yeah lucky he's not a dog.

He'd be on a one way trip to the vet.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,23:14   

tardilicious

Quote
81

jerry

03/28/2009

10:39 pm
“Do you have a better way of getting across the idea of accumulation of information through selection? If so, then out with it.”

There is no accumulation of information through selection that I have ever seen so how could I present a better way to an example I am not aware of. Maybe you should present an/the instance. We would all be interested. It would be a first, since I am not aware of even Dawkins ever doing so.


....erm Jerry.

The other information, remember?

Function.

Do you have a better way of getting across the idea of accumulation of information function through selection? If so, then out with it.”

.....Multi tasking yur not doin it rite.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Thought Provoker



Posts: 530
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2009,23:38   

FYI,

I sent Joe a comment asking him once again about the "information content" of a rock compared to two rocks.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts to all this attention.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2009,18:10   

Joe G on Oleg:

Quote
And that means by any measure I am his intellectual superior.


HAR HAR

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2009,23:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2009,02:10)
Joe G on Oleg:

 
Quote
And that means by any measure I am his intellectual superior.


HAR HAR

Yeah Joe G is a legend in his own basement.

His contribution to global knowledge just on cake baking alone would win him an Honary Doctorate.


*News update*

Joe G awarded "Man of Flour and Literal Images" Honary Doctorate at Mrs. Phylis D. Finkmeister's Cake Skool for Retired Aircraft Mechanics

Here is the award presentaton.




--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
clamboy



Posts: 188
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2009,11:10   

BREAKING NEWS!!! JOEG MADE FOOLS OF US ALL!!!

I knew something was fishy about his "cake" recipe, so I pulled out our copy of "The Joy of Specifically Complex Cooking" and did a little recipe research. You all thought, all this time, that his recipe was really for cake, didn't you? Didn't you??? Well, have I got news for you: it's really a recipe for (very eggy)....

CORN BREAD!!!!!!shift-one!!

Joe had us chasing down the rabbit hole of cake information, while he played us all like his little organ.

(Seriously, here's what "The Joy of Cooking" has to say about cakes: "Because the same ingredients combined in a different order, mixed differently, or even used at different temperatures result in quite different cakes (or failures), good bakers are dedicated to the small things that produce beautiful cakes that taste heavenly." There's a lesson there, Joe - a delicious lesson.)

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2009,11:20   

Quote (clamboy @ Mar. 31 2009,19:10)
BREAKING NEWS!!! JOEG MADE FOOLS OF US ALL!!!

I knew something was fishy about his "cake" recipe, so I pulled out our copy of "The Joy of Specifically Complex Cooking" and did a little recipe research. You all thought, all this time, that his recipe was really for cake, didn't you? Didn't you??? Well, have I got news for you: it's really a recipe for (very eggy)....

CORN BREAD!!!!!!shift-one!!

Joe had us chasing down the rabbit hole of cake information, while he played us all like his little organ.

(Seriously, here's what "The Joy of Cooking" has to say about cakes: "Because the same ingredients combined in a different order, mixed differently, or even used at different temperatures result in quite different cakes (or failures), good bakers are dedicated to the small things that produce beautiful cakes that taste heavenly." There's a lesson there, Joe - a delicious lesson.)

uh huh..

...so what you are saying is that if the designer was say......French  

Joe's blamange could be a crouton?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
clamboy



Posts: 188
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2009,11:55   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2009,11:20)
Quote (clamboy @ Mar. 31 2009,19:10)
BREAKING NEWS!!! JOEG MADE FOOLS OF US ALL!!!

I knew something was fishy about his "cake" recipe, so I pulled out our copy of "The Joy of Specifically Complex Cooking" and did a little recipe research. You all thought, all this time, that his recipe was really for cake, didn't you? Didn't you??? Well, have I got news for you: it's really a recipe for (very eggy)....

CORN BREAD!!!!!!shift-one!!

Joe had us chasing down the rabbit hole of cake information, while he played us all like his little organ.

(Seriously, here's what "The Joy of Cooking" has to say about cakes: "Because the same ingredients combined in a different order, mixed differently, or even used at different temperatures result in quite different cakes (or failures), good bakers are dedicated to the small things that produce beautiful cakes that taste heavenly." There's a lesson there, Joe - a delicious lesson.)

uh huh..

...so what you are saying is that if the designer was say......French  

Joe's blamange could be a crouton?

I'd say his creme caramel would be runny scrambled eggs.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2009,12:00   

Quote (clamboy @ Mar. 31 2009,09:55)
I'd say his creme caramel would be runny scrambled eggs.

That's a rather clamboyant statement.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2009,16:42   

They're coming to take Joe away, ha ha!

Joe makes cakes of all his little friends who worship his superior intellect (and his big, huge "evidence").

Oh, God, you are so huge! Gee, we're really impressed down here! :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,09:19   

Did you know that Jospeh Gallien is only a pseudonym? Neither did I until I came across this media commentary.  Joe's real name is Edwin Wiersbicki.

See here.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,11:09   

Quote (Thought Provoker @ Mar. 29 2009,00:38)
FYI,

I sent Joe a comment asking him once again about the "information content" of a rock compared to two rocks.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts to all this attention.

The relevant question for Joe G. is the information content of a box of rocks.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
KCdgw



Posts: 376
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,15:09   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 01 2009,11:09)
Quote (Thought Provoker @ Mar. 29 2009,00:38)
FYI,

I sent Joe a comment asking him once again about the "information content" of a rock compared to two rocks.

It will be interesting to see how he reacts to all this attention.

The relevant question for Joe G. is the information content of a box of rocks.

Or a bag of rock hammers.

KC

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,17:22   

latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,17:39   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2009,01:22)
latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

Holy FUCK!!!

He fell for the two rocks contain more information...

..... no ...no... no ....no folks not just any old information but Shannon Information.

What a frikken turkey.

He wouldn't know <k.e.. rolls eyes> "Shannon" Information if one bit his both his arses.

Hey Joe

Rocks contain Rock OK?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
tsig



Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2009,18:09   

Quote (k.e.. @ April 01 2009,17:39)
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2009,01:22)
latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

Holy FUCK!!!

He fell for the two rocks contain more information...

..... no ...no... no ....no folks not just any old information but Shannon Information.

What a frikken turkey.

He wouldn't know <k.e.. rolls eyes> "Shannon" Information if one bit his both his arses.

Hey Joe

Rocks contain Rock OK?

Joe has smart rocks.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2009,09:05   

Quote (tsig @ April 01 2009,18:09)
 
Quote (k.e.. @ April 01 2009,17:39)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2009,01:22)
latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

Holy FUCK!!!

He fell for the two rocks contain more information...

..... no ...no... no ....no folks not just any old information but Shannon Information.

What a frikken turkey.

He wouldn't know <k.e.. rolls eyes> "Shannon" Information if one bit his both his arses.

Hey Joe

Rocks contain Rock OK?

Joe has smart rocks.

Shannon is gone I heard -
She's drifting out to sea.

I wonder if two bags of hammers has more Shan-fo than one bag of hammers. :)

ETA - Joe is the Shan-wow guy. :p

Edited by Kristine on April 02 2009,09:09

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2009,13:44   

Quote (Kristine @ April 02 2009,09:05)
Quote (tsig @ April 01 2009,18:09)
   
Quote (k.e.. @ April 01 2009,17:39)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2009,01:22)
latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

Holy FUCK!!!

He fell for the two rocks contain more information...

..... no ...no... no ....no folks not just any old information but Shannon Information.

What a frikken turkey.

He wouldn't know <k.e.. rolls eyes> "Shannon" Information if one bit his both his arses.

Hey Joe

Rocks contain Rock OK?

Joe has smart rocks.

Shannon is gone I heard -
She's drifting out to sea.

I wonder if two bags of hammers has more Shan-fo than one bag of hammers. :)

ETA - Joe is the Shan-wow guy. :p

I have a new theory of information for Joe, illustrated by the game "Rock, Paper, Hammer".  It seems to unify many of his "thoughts".

Rock holds down paper.  Rock > paper, so has more information.  Two rocks hold the paper down even better, so even more information is in the rocks.  Especially if the rocks are shaped like a face.

Paper covers hammer.  Paper > hammer, so paper has more information, especially if the paper has a cake recipe written on it.  Super especially if the recipe is for rock cakes.  Two sheets of paper have double secret super special information.

Hammer breaks rock.  Unless wielded with Joe-like skill, in which case rock defeats hammers, and the primacy of cake recipe information is not in danger of disappearing because of the transitive property.

QED (Quod Erratum Demonstrandumb)

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Amadan



Posts: 1332
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2009,15:53   

But you forgot the scissors!

If you cut in half the sheet of paper with the cake recipe, it will make twice as many cakes. Especially if they're rock cakes.

Or maybe not: seeing that we're dealing with Shannon information here, it would probably have to be a log2 cake.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2009,22:30   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ April 02 2009,13:44)
Quote (Kristine @ April 02 2009,09:05)
Quote (tsig @ April 01 2009,18:09)
   
Quote (k.e.. @ April 01 2009,17:39)
     
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2009,01:22)
latest:

http://intelligentreasoning.blogspot.com/2009....ns.html

Holy FUCK!!!

He fell for the two rocks contain more information...

..... no ...no... no ....no folks not just any old information but Shannon Information.

What a frikken turkey.

He wouldn't know <k.e.. rolls eyes> "Shannon" Information if one bit his both his arses.

Hey Joe

Rocks contain Rock OK?

Joe has smart rocks.

Shannon is gone I heard -
She's drifting out to sea.

I wonder if two bags of hammers has more Shan-fo than one bag of hammers. :)

ETA - Joe is the Shan-wow guy. :p

I have a new theory of information for Joe, illustrated by the game "Rock, Paper, Hammer".  It seems to unify many of his "thoughts".

Rock holds down paper.  Rock > paper, so has more information.  Two rocks hold the paper down even better, so even more information is in the rocks.  Especially if the rocks are shaped like a face.

Paper covers hammer.  Paper > hammer, so paper has more information, especially if the paper has a cake recipe written on it.  Super especially if the recipe is for rock cakes.  Two sheets of paper have double secret super special information.

Hammer breaks rock.  Unless wielded with Joe-like skill, in which case rock defeats hammers, and the primacy of cake recipe information is not in danger of disappearing because of the transitive property.

QED (Quod Erratum Demonstrandumb)

So, clearly we can not choose the glass in front of you ???

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2009,23:05   

Quote
So, clearly we can not choose the glass in front of you :???:


Inconceivable!

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2009,05:51   

Quote (Henry J @ April 03 2009,05:05)
Quote
So, clearly we can not choose the glass in front of you :???:


Inconceivable!

That word you are using. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Or something like that.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2009,13:53   

Close enough. :p

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,10:43   

Joe has no one to talk to on his own blog, so he goes to UD to say this:
Quote
I understand perfectly well what nested hierarchy means.

Bwahahaha!

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,20:29   

Quote (olegt @ April 04 2009,10:43)
Joe has no one to talk to on his own blog, so he goes to UD to say this:      
Quote
I understand perfectly well what nested hierarchy means.

Bwahahaha!

That brings back fond memories of Sam of Ballyvourney and the stuff in his pocket. Joseph had a great deal of trouble realizing that we could treat the contents of Sam's pocket as a set—even if his pocket were empty (which with Sam is often the case).
Quote
Zachriel: Are these sets?

* Sam's male descendents.
* Twigs on a single branch.
* My bushel of apples.
* The contents of Sam's pocket.
* What if my pocket is empty?

Let's call the contents of a pocket, pocket-stuff. Now, Sam is from Ballyvourney.

* Is the set 'Sam's pocket-stuff' nested within the set of 'Ballyvourney pocket-stuff'?
* And as Ballyvourney is in County Cork, is the set 'Ballyvourney pocket-stuff' nested within the set 'County Cork pocket-stuff'?
* And is the set 'County Cork pocket-stuff' nested within the set 'Irish pocket-stuff'?

Joseph: Only if Sam is in Ballyvourney.

Zachriel: You must not know Sam. Sam can always be found at the Ballyvourney Mills Inn dancing the Ballyvourney Jig.

Heh. Anyway, this was meant to just be a quick prelude to a discussion of nested hierarchies in terms of sets. But then...

Quote
Joseph: The empty set is not a subset of itself.

Zachriel: The empty set is a subset of every set, including itself. Every set is a subset of itself. And every set is a subset of the union of that set with any other set. Hence,

'Sam of Ballyvourney's pocket-stuff' is a subset of 'Ballyvourney pocket-stuff'.

Even after weeks, Joseph refused to learn anything whatsoever. His adamantine ignorance is astounding.

Finally, Joseph said I couldn't post unless I supported a strawman of his devising. That was back during Davescot's bout with coulrophobia. Good times.

--------------
Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2009,20:37   

I recall learning all that 'set theory' stuff in 8th grade.

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,00:56   

Quote (khan @ April 05 2009,04:37)
I recall learning all that 'set theory' stuff in 8th grade.

I remember around 2nd to 3rd grade a question regarding set's / categories breathlessly asked by a young city teacher at my primary school.

Something along the lines of

"Now boys and girls, tell me which is the odd one out.
Cat, Sheep or Seagull?"


"Cat" everyone said.

Correct boys and girls.
Cat's are allowed in the house.

"Seagull" I said

<Teacher's mouth drops open> "And why do you say that k.e..?"

"The other 2 are mammals Miss."

The class chimed "Ignore him Miss he's strange, he doesn't believe in god, you are right Miss. What's a mammal anyway Miss?"

"All mammal mothers provide milk to their offspring even wales. We're mammals" I said

My mother got a call with a "please explain" question

Mom said she didn't want me going to the free lunchtime yank* nut job 50's evangelical religious cartoon movies anymore.

I had some lonely lunches for a while.

It was like being in a sociological experiment watching a group think theory being tested.

Those kids could have been told anything and just because they were told it was true, it WAS true. They saw the pictures.
Tablets from on high, Burning bush to Flood and beyond.

Joseph just can't grok NH because it causes a schism in his brain.
Joseph's brain just isn't wired properly.

*A term used outside of USA for all Americans. It caused endless fun for a group of young Australian males I was with in Dallas on a course in the late '70's when we called Texans  "Yanks".  They always responded that they hated damn "Yankees" as well. We would tease them with the fact they were all "Yanks" where we came from. The slow dawning looks on their faces were priceless. The mental confusion produced a truly shardenfreud moment, the following reaction weeded out the dickheads.

-bah fixed spelz

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,08:21   

Quote (k.e.. @ April 05 2009,00:56)
 
Quote (khan @ April 05 2009,04:37)
I recall learning all that 'set theory' stuff in 8th grade.

I remember around 2nd to 3rd grade a question regarding set's / categories breathlessly asked by a young city teacher at my primary school.

Something along the lines of

"Now boys and girls, tell me which is the odd one out.
Cat, Sheep or Seagull?"


"Cat" everyone said.

Correct boys and girls.
Cat's are allowed in the house.

"Seagull" I said

Sheep. You get wool from sheep. And they go "Ba".

Quote (khan @ April 04 2009,20:37)
I recall learning all that 'set theory' stuff in 8th grade.

It's not that he doesn't know, but that he refuses to learn. And when cornered on a mistake, he reacts by hurling insults. I see no hope of discussing nested hierarchies with Joseph as long as he refuses to understand the simplest aspects of categorization.

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Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2009,09:51   

Zac said in another lifetime:
Quote
It's not that he doesn't know, but that he refuses to learn. And when cornered on a mistake, he reacts by hurling insults. I see no hope of discussing nested hierarchies with Joseph as long as he refuses to understand the simplest aspects of categorization.



You are being far too generous, his own self censorship, which he is fully aware of, finds a justification for loudspeaker lies.

It's called Joe's political identity.

He pleads the Nuremberg Defence.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 11 2009,23:25   

not unless Joe gives up revenge for Lent during Ramadan...

wow

Quote
You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen.


joe has a man-crush!!!!

Yes Joe Is That Stupid

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 11 2009,23:31   

Really, it's better than just that

In full.  In sequence.  First (bolds my emphasis)

Quote
Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant
Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant

Over on uncommon descent, both Alan Fox and David Kellogg have tried (and failed) to tell me that the theory of evolution predicts a nested hierarchy.

In an attempt to try to reason with them I asked them if evolution had a direction. They both agreed that it does not.

The next step was to ask them if nested hierarchies required a direction of additive characteristics. They both agreed that NH does not require a direction.

I provided a definition of nested hierarchy that stated nested hierarchies involve levels which consist of, and contain, lower levels.

That means if defining characteristics are lost then containment is also lost, therefor nested hierarchy is lost.

And if defining characteristics stay the same then we remain with that set- no nested hierarchy.

   Note how, as in any hierarchic system, the divisions are clear in a systematic way, becoming increasingly intense as the hierarchy is ascended.



After reasoning with these dolts didn’t work I asked them to provide an example of a nested hierarchy in which the characteristics were not additive.

Did they provide one?

Nope. Instead Kellogg pulled his head out of his ass long enough to tell me that I am incapable of being reasoned with!

And yet he has never provided any reasoning to support his position!!!!

You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen.


oh yeah.  the only thing that is getting increasingly intense is the Mullah Joe G's blood pressure.  and maybe the pressure on his prostate gland as he squinches that butt plug while chewing that can of spinach open with his teeth.

VERY NEXT BLOG POST

note the about face "I didn't mean to hurt you kitten you know I love you I'll never hurt you again"

Quote
Mysterious Definition of Nested Hierarchy?
David Kellogg believes that I am unable to be reasoned with because he told me, without any support, that the few evolutionary scientists I disagree with pertaining to nested hierarchy and the theory of evolution, use a different definition of a nested hierarchy.

Did you get that?

They do not use the standard and accepted definition that I and the majority of people use, they have some ultra-secret version only they can understand.

So how about Kellogg- can you produce the allegedly different version of nested hierarchy that those evolutionary scientists use?

I promise I will do my best to understand but I first have to know what it is I am supposed to be understanding.


this fool is a stark raving lunatic.  

Joe, either go get some professional help, or run for your local school board.  please don't do both that would be boring.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2009,01:29   

Quote
Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant
Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant

Over on uncommon descent, both Alan Fox and David Kellogg have tried (and failed) to tell me that the theory of evolution predicts a nested hierarchy.

In an attempt to try to reason with them I asked them if evolution had a direction. They both agreed that it does not.


Here's Joe's basic problem when Alan and David say unguided they mean within the constraints of available pathways. Very, very simply put cars can only drive on roads or "available landscape".

Joe thinks unguided means that lead can turn into gold by means of ghosts.

Quote

The next step was to ask them if nested hierarchies required a direction of additive characteristics. They both agreed that NH does not require a direction.


Joe fails to understand that Time is "a now" that once it has passed the apocryphal time stationary observer that somehow managed to find a seat on a time machine proceeding backwards through time at the same rate as time is moving forward. What will be observed is only an unmoving  snapshot of the NH forever never changing.

The question postmodernist city boy Joe needs to ask himself is 'can a tree start growing in mid air with unsupported branches' or do 'adults grow into children'.


Quote

I provided a definition of nested hierarchy that stated nested hierarchies involve levels which consist of, and contain, lower levels.


Not levels, branches.

Quote

That means if defining characteristics are lost then containment is also lost, therefor nested hierarchy is lost.


Branchless leaves? I think not.

Quote


And if defining characteristics stay the same then we remain with that set- no nested hierarchy.


Wrong.
Why Joe?

Quote


  Note how, as in any hierarchic system, the divisions are clear in a systematic way, becoming increasingly intense as the hierarchy is ascended.


We are not talking about your boss climbing the corporate ladder we are talking about a way of mapping and understanding a history of life in a graphical manner.

Quote


After reasoning with these dolts didn’t work I asked them to provide an example of a nested hierarchy in which the characteristics were not additive.


Dolts and reasoning don't go together do they?.....Joe?

Quote

Did they provide one?

Nope. Instead Kellogg pulled his head out of his ass long enough to tell me that I am incapable of being reasoned with!


And your point?

Quote

And yet he has never provided any reasoning to support his position!!!!


Well actually Joe, you have provided the evidence to support Kellogg's position.... time and again

Quote

You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen.


Argument from ass.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2009,07:20   

Little Joe hasn't had anyone to play with lately.  No one posts on his blog and even fellow UD creationists ignore him.  He's so ronery!

ETA: He begs for someone---anyone---to show up, insulting them at the same time:
Quote
TP?

Does this- your absence- mean that you didn't have a point?

And Touch-hole-

What happened to you?

Awwwww...

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If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
Leftfield



Posts: 107
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2009,13:18   

Quote (olegt @ April 12 2009,07:20)
Little Joe hasn't had anyone to play with lately.  No one posts on his blog and even fellow UD creationists ignore him.  He's so ronery!

ETA: He begs for someone---anyone---to show up, insulting them at the same time:  
Quote
TP?

Does this- your absence- mean that you didn't have a point?

And Touch-hole-

What happened to you?

Awwwww...

 
Quote
Little Joe hasn't had anyone to play with lately.  


As Mynamehere, I'm trying to communicate with him on the nested hierarchies issue. After I started, I realized that I don't even know why it's an issue! But hey, it's all about getting some insight into how other people see the universe.

E (because I can, and) TA: linky: https://www.blogger.com/comment....4076646

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Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
Leftfield



Posts: 107
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2009,10:44   

It may be useless to try and understand him, but does anybody know what Joe means when he says:

 
Quote
Umm the whole tree [of life] is caput, not just the base.

But that is NOT evidence against universal common descent.


How can the caputness of the tree of life not be evidence against universal common descent?

On this thread.

Yes, I know it's kaput with a k, but there's only so many hours in a day.

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Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2009,15:07   

Quote (Leftfield @ April 23 2009,10:44)
It may be useless to try and understand him, but does anybody know what Joe means when he says:

   
Quote
Umm the whole tree [of life] is caput, not just the base.

But that is NOT evidence against universal common descent.


How can the caputness of the tree of life not be evidence against universal common descent?

On this thread.

Yes, I know it's kaput with a k, but there's only so many hours in a day.

No, nobody understands anything Joe says.  I believe the primary reason for this is that Joe has no grasp of nor regard for basics.  He attacks everything and everyone from the end result and will never even venture an opinion on basic building blocks, rules, hypotheses, etc.

To Joe there is only a peanut butter sandwich--there is no bread, knife, or jar of peanut butter.

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2009,17:54   

Quote (olegt @ April 12 2009,07:20)
Little Joe hasn't had anyone to play with lately.  No one posts on his blog and even fellow UD creationists ignore him.  He's so ronery!

ETA: He begs for someone---anyone---to show up, insulting them at the same time:
Quote
TP?

Does this- your absence- mean that you didn't have a point?

And Touch-hole-

What happened to you?

Awwwww...

touch hole bwaaa

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,08:15   

Veteran Joe watchers:  Have you heard this?
Quote
BTW I was a staunch evolutionist until I started looking more closely at the scientific data while studying to be a zoologist/marine biologist.

If so -- details, please!

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,08:19   

is joe really a sock pulling this seinfeld thing on us

i often wondered in light of pretending to be a muslin if he wasn't pulling everyones leg

joe has even convinced himself that he is serious tho so all bets are off

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,08:33   

Quote (keiths @ April 24 2009,06:15)
Veteran Joe watchers:  Have you heard this?
Quote
BTW I was a staunch evolutionist until I started looking more closely at the scientific data while studying to be a zoologist/marine biologist.

If so -- details, please!

Joe explains:
Quote
Why did I leave biology?

Once I figured out the the theory of evolution was BS, I started challenging my professors only to learn that they only cared about defending the orthodoxy.

I went to school to learn not to be indoctrinated.

So I returned to my number one passion of electronic technology & electricty.

Engineering is far more challenging and rewarding than being a research scientist- and yes I have done both.

And I got to travel the world- every continent except Antartica and Austrailia- more countries than we have states.

And probably did more damage to the image of the United States abroad than George W. hisself.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,08:48   

his number one passion of electricty

is joe a sock

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,08:53   

Alan pwns Joe:

Alan:  Just out of curiosity, Joe, was this for long, and was it at a recognized academic institution?

Joe:   Was what for long?

Alan:  The time you spent studying to be a marine biologist.

Joe:   And I doubt you would recognize any academic institution of higher learning.

Alan:  But I could write to them asking they improve their teaching on nested hierarchies.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,10:33   

Quote (keiths @ April 24 2009,08:53)
Alan pwns Joe:

Alan:  Just out of curiosity, Joe, was this for long, and was it at a recognized academic institution?

Joe:   Was what for long?

Alan:  The time you spent studying to be a marine biologist.

Joe:   And I doubt you would recognize any academic institution of higher learning.

Alan:  But I could write to them asking they improve their teaching on nested hierarchies.

bwaaaa

in the meantime...  where did you study marine biology?

i'm telling you i am afraid joe is a sock.  that is too close to seinfeld

joseph PM me you supreme bastard

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,11:03   

Joe G Thread

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....01;st=0

Joe G 'speriments:

http://www.arn.org/ubbthre....=0&vc=1



Quote
Many dealing with ion trap mobilty spectrometry & mass spectrometry. Many more dealing with electronic circuitry and electricity.

I can't get specific as it deals with security. If you can get a security clearance I could show you what I do.

Then there is astronomy. On any given night I can have 3 telescopes pointing skyward. 2 4,5" aps with a 910mm FL(one automated and one manual) as well as a 10" ap with an 1125mm FL.

And that is just the tip of the ole iceberg.

That doesn't count the experiments I conduct in my basement. Some labs would be jealous of the equipment I house & use there.

For example I now know that ticks are more attracted to watermelon rinds then they are to orange peels or orange slices. I also know that dragonflies play.


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,11:15   

that would have been handy during the cake warz

i think you could pin him down a bit re CSI etc just from the Why ID is scientifical thread

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,11:37   

Quote
I can't get specific as it deals with security. If you can get a security clearance I could show you what I do.


Someone is unfamiliar with security. In addition to a clearance, you must have a need to know for the specific information. And that assumes you are part of the project or in command over the project.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
AmandaHuginKiss



Posts: 150
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,11:57   

Isn't it even illegal to say that you are working on something secret?

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,12:24   

Quote (AmandaHuginKiss @ April 24 2009,19:57)
Isn't it even illegal to say that you are working on something secret?

He is srwsly talking out of his ass.

AND completely indistinguishable from a sock.


Come on, Joe come clean yur doing P-A-R-O-D-Y right?

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,16:09   

Quote (k.e.. @ April 24 2009,10:24)
Quote (AmandaHuginKiss @ April 24 2009,19:57)
Isn't it even illegal to say that you are working on something secret?

He is srwsly talking out of his ass.

AND completely indistinguishable from a sock.


Come on, Joe come clean yur doing P-A-R-O-D-Y right?

I'm still convinced that Erasmus is Joe G.  It just makes too much sense.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,16:42   

i guess it was the advertising of it that pointed it out to you.  shit.  

well now that i am caught...

ya see i like refrigerators because they don't say silly bullshit nonsense like you darwinists.  would you like to meet so i can write that on your forehead?  

who here can prove that the difference in the dodo and the auk is the result of unplanned random genetic accidents?  until then pound sand i do more science in my basement than all of you darwinists could dream of doing if you didn't use the academy like moneychangers.

allah akbar  i'm going to my blog and write a post about how nested hierarchies don't even exist and they prove that you are all a bunch of darwinist losers

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:02   

so i went to his blog anyway  what a freak

from"Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant"
Quote
Joe G said...
clowny,

Please let me know when you will be in New England again.

And please include where you will be performing along with the times.

9:39 AM


someone is crushing on you blipes!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:07   

Quote (keiths @ April 24 2009,16:09)
I'm still convinced that Erasmus is Joe G.  It just makes too much sense.

On the surface, sure, it seems to fit.  They both come across as that homeless guy wandering around downtown babbling incoherently to himself, while wearing three sweaters and 4 coats in the middle of August.

But when you really listen to them, there is a big difference.  Erasmus is good-naturedly muttering about the fuzzy critters and pretty flowers.  Joe is going on about how he and AllahJesus are going to track you down and kick your ass.

HTH.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:11   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 24 2009,17:02)
so i went to his blog anyway  what a freak

from"Alan Fox and David Kellogg- nested hierarchy ignorant"
Quote
Joe G said...
clowny,

Please let me know when you will be in New England again.

And please include where you will be performing along with the times.

9:39 AM


someone is crushing on you blipes!

Trying to intimidate folks with an offering of a meeting is his go-to trick. Methinks real worldz Joe isn't as scary as interwebz Joe.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:21   

Quote

Joe G said...
Entertainers provide a distraction from reality.

They are people who could not deal with their reality and therefor needed a life of pretend.

If all the entertainers just shut up the world would be a better place.

And clowny, you being a representative of entertainers should really shut up because all you have done is prove my point.

5:03 PM


does he even know that he is an entertainer?

wow

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:48   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,April 24 2009,17:21)
Quote

Joe G said...
Entertainers provide a distraction from reality.

They are people who could not deal with their reality and therefor needed a life of pretend.

If all the entertainers just shut up the world would be a better place.

And clowny, you being a representative of entertainers should really shut up because all you have done is prove my point.

5:03 PM


does he even know that he is an entertainer?

wow



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,17:55   

"You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen." - isn't it illegal to post that?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2009,18:13   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 24 2009,17:55)
"You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen." - isn't it illegal to post that?

I've wondered about that.  But who would I call?  And I don't know Joe's identity.  (Unless someone here wants to PM me.)

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"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2009,06:35   

Quote (Hermagoras @ April 24 2009,13:13)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 24 2009,17:55)
"You are a piece of shit Kellogg and you had better hope we never meet even though I am going to try to make that happen." - isn't it illegal to post that?

I've wondered about that.  But who would I call?  And I don't know Joe's identity.  (Unless someone here wants to PM me.)

He has at the very least to be in violation of Blogger content policy. As in favour as I am of the unfettered free exchange of ideas, I think Joe abuses the privilege. We should complain. As he has moderation enabled, I feel justified in complaining direct to Blogger without first attempting to get him to retract.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2009,06:43   

Maybe not. Seems Blogger are very free-speech oriented.

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2009,07:15   

On the other hand, there's this:
Quote
VIOLENT CONTENT: Users may not publish direct threats of violence against any person or group of people.


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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2709
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2009,10:27   

Quote
Joseph: What is a paternal family tree?

It can mean the entire family tree of one's father. Or it can mean just the male line, such as when discussing male inheritance.

Quote
Pidancier et al., Evolutionary history of the genus Capra, Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, 2006: The ancestral sorting hypothesis would imply that many divergent mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages existed in the ancestral population gene pool. Subsequently, different lineages were randomly sorted into different daughter populations or taxa... This could also explain the discordance between the maternal and paternal tree topologies.


Quote
Joseph: What is a patrilineage?

It can mean a line of descent traced through the males, or it can refer to the groups related through a common male ancestor.

In any case, if we trace male ancestry, we have a line; if we trace male descent, we have a tree; if we group each male with his male descendents, then we have a nested hierarchy.

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Proudly banned three four five times by Uncommon Descent.
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2009,19:03   

Quote (Zachriel @ April 25 2009,10:27)
Quote
Joseph: What is a paternal family tree?

It can mean the entire family tree of one's father. Or it can mean just the male line, such as when discussing male inheritance.

Quote
Pidancier et al., Evolutionary history of the genus Capra, Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, 2006: The ancestral sorting hypothesis would imply that many divergent mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages existed in the ancestral population gene pool. Subsequently, different lineages were randomly sorted into different daughter populations or taxa... This could also explain the discordance between the maternal and paternal tree topologies.


Quote
Joseph: What is a patrilineage?

It can mean a line of descent traced through the males, or it can refer to the groups related through a common male ancestor.

In any case, if we trace male ancestry, we have a line; if we trace male descent, we have a tree; if we group each male with his male descendents, then we have a nested hierarchy.

Hmmm.  It seems so simple. :)

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2009,06:18   

Quote (blipey @ April 25 2009,17:03)
Quote (Zachriel @ April 25 2009,10:27)
Quote
Joseph: What is a paternal family tree?

It can mean the entire family tree of one's father. Or it can mean just the male line, such as when discussing male inheritance.

 
Quote
Pidancier et al., Evolutionary history of the genus Capra, Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution, 2006: The ancestral sorting hypothesis would imply that many divergent mtDNA and Y-chromosome lineages existed in the ancestral population gene pool. Subsequently, different lineages were randomly sorted into different daughter populations or taxa... This could also explain the discordance between the maternal and paternal tree topologies.


 
Quote
Joseph: What is a patrilineage?

It can mean a line of descent traced through the males, or it can refer to the groups related through a common male ancestor.

In any case, if we trace male ancestry, we have a line; if we trace male descent, we have a tree; if we group each male with his male descendents, then we have a nested hierarchy.

Hmmm.  It seems so simple. :)

Unfortunately, Joe is even simpler.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2009,06:40   

I have to wonder where Joe thinks he's going, in his mind does he have a chance at redefining words and their accepted usage simply by being an ass on a blog probably only 10 people read? And only then for laughs?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2009,07:27   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 26 2009,06:40)
I have to wonder where Joe thinks he's going, in his mind does he have a chance at redefining words and their accepted usage simply by being an ass on a blog probably only 10 people read? And only then for laughs?

Joseph has spent his life wrestling with the vast body of scientific knowledge.  I think it is fair to say that, at this point, Joseph has finally won out over it.

H/T Elwood P. Dowd

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)