GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,16:13    Here are Kent's taped phone conversations from jail. http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2007....om.html

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,16:16    uh, before one even lends an ear, is this one of those "guranteed to cause brain cell death" kinda things? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,18:09    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 15 2007,17:16) uh, before one even lends an ear, is this one of those "guranteed to cause brain cell death" kinda things? Quite possibly yes.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,18:27    see? now that's the kinda honesty creobots just can't deliver. ;) -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Dr.GH Posts: 2324 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,19:55    What I want is the sentencing hearing transcript! The phone calls convinced me that Hovind is actually insane.  He wasn't faking, it was not just a con-job, he is utterly insane.  :O -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,20:28    I would like to know what DaveScot's take is on this... Martyer For The Cause? Another Dembski Disciple? Tax Cheatin' Poltroon? Just another Bozo in the Big Tent? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2007,20:29    So, is it a "woe is me" speech, or a "I'm locked up with all these evilutionists" speech, or a "send me your money" speech, or a "the Zionist Occupation Government got me!" speech, or a "how I'm helping these poor men to Jaysus" speech, or a "something really hurts down there" speech, or what? -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,07:47    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . I'm sorry. That just came out. I listened to them. If you enjoy laughing at people like him, you will like these recordings. By the way, OT, did someone make a post using my account a couple of weeks ago? Does anyone know where that might be? One of my many night shifts that turned into late morning maybe? -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,11:53    Quote So, is it a "woe is me" speech, or a "I'm locked up with all these evilutionists" speech, or a "send me your money" speech, or a "the Zionist Occupation Government got me!" speech, or a "how I'm helping these poor men to Jaysus" speech, or a "something really hurts down there" speech, or what? All of those arguments at once, PLUS THE KICKER: “If they let me out of prison, I shall forgive them [the IRS].” *Strikes pose* “But if they don’t let me out of here [and I must say I detected a bit of, “Lemme outa here! Lemme the #### outa here!”], I shall go after them. I’ll sue them. Again. One for every little mistake they’ve made, and they’ve made a lot of mistakes!” *Shakes fist* [Yeah, the IRS really loused it up Hovie, and that’s why you’re in the clink. Right.] “But if I don’t get outa here [ “Lemme outa here! Waahh!] I’m going after them, blah” yakkity-yak. What a deluded nincompoop. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:08    8 years and 6 months or so for Hovind to ponder this turn of events -- 540 days maximum "good time" with no earlier parole available at the Fed level, unless he gets a Bush pardon or some such thing. I expect ol' Kent to display a wide range of emotions before it's all over. What I really hope for is acknowledgement of wrongdoing and just a touch of genuine contrition. But, like Doc G.H. posted, I also don't think Hovind's sane: he's convinced himself of his own delusions. Reminds me of AFDave, really. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:22    indeed, the patterns are very similar, but not just for these two. again, this keeps bringing me back to this whole creobotism thing being more related to psychology than religion. religion is just "the enabler", for the underlying psychological malady. I keep scanning for sites that are looking into researching this aspect of it, but it appears there is little indication anyone witn a science blog is considering the issue on that level consistently (oh, there is brief recognition from time to time, but no consistent attempts to examine the issue from that perspective). Unfortunate, as an approach that really looks at the underlying causation will be the only real productive way of approaching a solution in the long term, IMO. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:56    I have been doing a lot of thinking about that, actually. (I got hammered at Pharyngula of all places for suggesting that creationism, not religious beliefs, was an indication of a neurotic disorder—“I wouldn’t say they’re crazy!”—well, that’s not what I said.) I remember a study done with subjects who held racist ideas: they were asked to look at a series of slides in which there were drawings of cats that gradually “morphed” into drawings of dogs. Those who held firm racist attitudes would insist that the drawing that was clearly of a dog was a “cat.” I thought of this again when a friend of mine, a prominent atheist in the Twin Cities who goes and speaks at Bible colleges about evolution, science, religion, etc., talked last night of showing the students examples of transitional fossils, and they insist that they still “don’t see it.” Yes, there’s definitely a huge psychological component to this. After my talk on learning behaviors I got so many new ideas from the class discussion that I’d love to test the idea further, specifically regarding students learning about evolution. (I just don't know when I could find time to do it, however.) -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:10    yeah, you watch guys like Airhead Dave long enough, and you begin to see the self-reinforcing delusions common to people suffering from schizophrenia. I don't think it's just a coincidence. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:14    Quote (BWE @ Feb. 16 2007,08:47) By the way, OT, did someone make a post using my account a couple of weeks ago? Does anyone know where that might be? One of my many night shifts that turned into late morning maybe? I think it was on Avo's thread.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:52    Found it. Er. I feel pretty drn sheepish. The lady who wrote that has also written a few other things. Er, published in other places. Not as me. Although, I can dream. Guess I need to remember to shut down my computer when I'm not there. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2007,23:17    About those psychological factors: this (via EBSCO) is pretty darn weird.   Quote Interhemispheric interaction and beliefs on our origin: Degree of handedness predicts beliefs in creationism versus evolution.  Niebauer, Christopher Lee; Christman, Stephen D.; Reid, Scott A.; Laterality: Asymmetries of Body, Brain and Cognition, Vol 9(4), Oct 2004. pp. 433-447. It's available as a PDF. I don't know what I think of a supposed correlation between strong "handedness" and creationism, although it would perhaps explain all those engineers, and... ...well, it would also explain how Hovie's spending most of his time in prison.   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2007,00:29    Did you happen to catch that twin study looking at heritability of "extreme religious behavior" (read: fundamentalism) that was published a couple years back? I can dig up the reference for you if you are interested. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2007,11:34    Yeah, if you can get me the citation, I would definitely be interested.   -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 17 2007,15:27    this includes the reference, and the original discussion of the paper on PT: http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/03/genes_contribut.html here's the link to the abstract in pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract If you want to get an intro to the field of evo psych, I found this site useful: http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/index.html You will find just as much friction to it now, as Lewontin generated in the early days of sociobiology. true enough, just like with early sociobiology, evo psych also makes some mistaken assumptions IMO (as well as a seeming lack of knowledge of the history of ethology at times), but the application of evolutionary theory to human behavior has been (and will continue to be) a productive approach. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2007,10:52    Thanks a bunch, Ichthyic. I was able to pull the PDF of the original article from Journal of Personality via your link (and as it turns out I have heard of this study). I'll check out the evo psych link too. I'm iffy about that stuff, although as long as their methodology is sound I’m open to it. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2007,11:40    Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 16 2007,16:56) I have been doing a lot of thinking about that, actually. (I got hammered at Pharyngula of all places for suggesting that creationism, not religious beliefs, was an indication of a neurotic disorder—“I wouldn’t say they’re crazy!”—well, that’s not what I said.) ;) My experiences of religion where all fun, boring or comforting until I started on this little adventure. It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2007,21:38    http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/beliefs.html yeah, it's a few years old. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,07:00    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 20 2007,11:40) It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing. Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing.     -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Alan Fox Posts: 1552 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,08:45    Quote I don't think it's just a coincidence. Quote It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.   Quote Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing. It is the people, not the ideas, that need watching. When "Communism fell" many apparatchiks moved seamlessly into the emerging "democratic" parties. Now ID is fatally damaged, opportunists will attempt to exploit another vehicle for their ambitions. Hopefully, the global warming issue will not turn out to be such a vehicle. Plus ça change...

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,14:20    Quote (Alan Fox @ Feb. 24 2007,08:45) Quote I don't think it's just a coincidence.   Quote It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.   Quote Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing. It is the people, not the ideas, that need watching. When "Communism fell" many apparatchiks moved seamlessly into the emerging "democratic" parties. Now ID is fatally damaged, opportunists will attempt to exploit another vehicle for their ambitions. Hopefully, the global warming issue will not turn out to be such a vehicle. Plus ça change... Can you expand on that Alan? TBH, I haven't got a clue as to what you mean.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,14:37    Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 24 2007,07:00) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 20 2007,11:40) It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing. Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing.    ;) Oh yes, I remember that. It can be quite scarey when people wish to impose thier opinions onto others. Key words are opinion and impose. It bothers me not when people wish to persuade with evidence. That is fine. Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him. It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to. This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations. With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to. OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work.

Bing Posts: 144 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,16:45    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him. It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to. This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations. With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to. OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work. That's where you and I differ.  I had one coming to my door every Saturday for weeks on end.  He seemed like a nice old geezer but polite requests to leave me alone and not knock on my door were ignored. So finally fed up, I invited him in.  When I asked him to light the candles in the points of the pentagram that I had painted on the basement floor while I went and got the chicken he took off like a scalded cat. And the next week I saw him cross the street as he walked up the sidewalk.  Guess I musta scared him or something?

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,17:12    Quote I believe that he thought he was doing good work. and THAT'S the real problem. instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country. then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,19:48    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,17:12) Quote I believe that he thought he was doing good work. and THAT'S the real problem. instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country. then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong. Fair point Ichy. How would you suggest going about that? I wouldn't know where to start.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,19:55    Quote (Bing @ Feb. 24 2007,16:45) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him. It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to. This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations. With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to. OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work. That's where you and I differ.  I had one coming to my door every Saturday for weeks on end.  He seemed like a nice old geezer but polite requests to leave me alone and not knock on my door were ignored. So finally fed up, I invited him in.  When I asked him to light the candles in the points of the pentagram that I had painted on the basement floor while I went and got the chicken he took off like a scalded cat. And the next week I saw him cross the street as he walked up the sidewalk.  Guess I musta scared him or something? That is not an action that I would use. Main reason being, it would involve me having to lie. That is not an option that I am willing to do.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,20:10    Quote (Bing @ Feb. 25 2007,00:45) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him. It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to. This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations. With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to. OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work. That's where you and I differ.  I had one coming to my door every Saturday for weeks on end.  He seemed like a nice old geezer but polite requests to leave me alone and not knock on my door were ignored. So finally fed up, I invited him in.  When I asked him to light the candles in the points of the pentagram that I had painted on the basement floor while I went and got the chicken he took off like a scalded cat. And the next week I saw him cross the street as he walked up the sidewalk.  Guess I musta scared him or something? Brilliant! Not that I would do anything like that (stifled guffaw). What was going on in that guy's head? The thought of the equally real 'other' invading his earthly carcass? Why not? At least he was aware that it had already happened once. When he walks down a street does he see demons and devils which are by comparison just as real as his gods? The fear of the fear that made him jump in through the door of a church of loonies who ......surprise surprise confirmed his deepest fears. The thought that his character was too weak to counteract someone strong and free enough to perform satanic acts in his own basement? And his fear that he could be sucked in just as easily to his cult of current choice. If you wait long enough they all give themselves away. Empty words, nice uniforms and one whole day a week devoted to stroking inner fears by the self deluded. Religion.... can't shoot it, can't eat it -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:09    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:48)   Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,17:12)   Quote I believe that he thought he was doing good work. and THAT'S the real problem. instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country. then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong. Fair point Ichy. How would you suggest going about that? I wouldn't know where to start. yes, more difficult, but I would use studies like that in the nat. geo. issue on evolution that came out a couple of years ago (nov 2004 I think) where the there was data on the influence of extreme religious indoctrination on education. or, you could go and show him data on the trends in homeschooled kids over the last few decades, and see how well in the sciences these religiously homeschooled kids have placed on standard tests. or you could talk in more general terms of the impacts of science and technology on the economy of the US - talk about the role of science in medicine; the role of evolution, for example, in cancer research and epidemiology. by teaching kids falsities about science in general, they are causing direct damage to the future quality of life of the very people they want to "help". I'm just scratching the surface here; entire books have been written on the subject, which you might want to read. one that pops off the top of my head is the Ehrlich's "The Betrayal of Science and Reason" http://www.amazon.com/Betraya....9634847 IOW, there are many different directions you can take to show that breeding ignorance causes direct damage to the very quality of life we have come to expect as "1st worlders". and it saves you having to counter every little bit of ignorant claptrap they try to spew at you, unless, like myself, you actually enjoy wasting their time by doing just that. for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:40    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37) Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. My favorite tactic for dealing with Witnesses (and any other fundy nutters who came to my door): For years, I kept a large collection of reptiles and exotic animals in my house (I used to do educational talks and shows for school classes, scout troops, etc).  One of my pets was an adult black racer snake, wildcaught -- about four feet long, glossy black, very fast, very alert, and hated humans with an absolute passion.  Every time his cage was approached, he'd instantly rear up in the classic S-shaped snake-attack position.  Everyone who saw him assumed he was some sort of mamba or something. Also had a tank full of African emperor scorpions.  The largest scorp species in the world -- eight inches tip to tip, huge pincers, with a highly visible stinger at least a quarter-inch long at the end of their graceful curving tail.  Glossy black.  The most evil-looking thing you can imagine. Both critters were, of course, utterly harmless to humans.   So, whenever the god-botherers would show up, I'd invite them in and sit them down, on a love seat that just happened to be right between these two cages.  After they had a good long look, I'd ask to borrow their Bible, and open it to Luke 10:19: "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,  and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I then asked them to go ahead and demonstrate their faith in the Bible by opening either cage and handing me its occupant.  Their choice which one. For some odd reason, no one ever took me up on my offer, and they all decided that they had better places to be. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:41    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned).

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,21:54    Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 24 2007,21:40) ... "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions,  and over all the power of the enemy; and nothing shall by any means hurt you." I then asked them to go ahead and demonstrate their faith in the Bible by opening either cage and handing me its occupant.  Their choice which one. For some odd reason, no one ever took me up on my offer, and they all decided that they had better places to be. ROFL. Now that is pretty funny. Not an option for me though (I have no pets). TBH, I didn't really mind the visit. I found it quite interesting and was fair pleased that my exposure to here and PT bore some fruit. It was a tad surprising that he was using arguments that had been discussed here many times.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,22:52    Quote One of my pets was an adult black racer snake ouch. especially the wild caught ones. unless they were different in your neck o the woods, those things are some of the nastiest snakes I've ever tried to catch. at least they're not poisonous. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 24 2007,22:55    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,12:40    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,22:55) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41)   Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online.

Alan Fox Posts: 1552 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,14:40    Stephen asks: Quote Can you expand on that Alan? TBH, I haven't got a clue as to what you mean. I was just saying that whilst you and I might try to convince others with logic, reason and evidence, some with political ambitions or aspiring cult leaders adopt and discard ideas as expediency dictates. Their motive is not to expand the boundaries of human knowledge but to gain power and control for its own sake. I doubt that, for example, Pol Pot, could have been dissuaded from his takeover of Cambodia by a lively debate of the issues. ID was important for what it was thought might be delivered politically, those who were using it have not gone away, and will still need watching.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,15:34    Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,15:40    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34) Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic.

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,16:03    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,22:52) Quote One of my pets was an adult black racer snake ouch. especially the wild caught ones. unless they were different in your neck o the woods, those things are some of the nastiest snakes I've ever tried to catch. at least they're not poisonous. I used them in talks because they were the snake most of the kids were likely to have seen.  I would always say to them, "The good news is that you probably won't catch them anyway.  The bad news is that you just MIGHT."     ;> I had him for years, fed him, cleaned him, cared for him like a child -- and he still bit me every chance he had. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,17:32    Quote (GCT @ Feb. 25 2007,15:40) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34) Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic. ahh, thanks. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,18:35    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,18:32) Quote (GCT @ Feb. 25 2007,15:40) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,16:34)   Quote Went to buy it today (Idiocracy). Tried 2 shops, niether had it. Will have to order it online. hmm, you might also look for a torrent of it; it wasn't a widely popular movie (it was made by the South Park guys, IIRC), so you might try just looking for it on thepiratebay.org Mike Judge made it.  He's the guy behind Beavis and Butthead and King of the Hill.  He also did Office Space, an all time classic. ahh, thanks. No worries bro.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,18:48    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,23:55) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,21:41) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. You know what? I consider that to be the most likely scenario. A tad depressing but it does seem to be happening (at least as far as the UK is concerned). oh, i really recommend you check out that movie if you haven't seen it yet. rent the DVD or grab a torrent of it. Florida is a terrible and crazy place to be, though there are some upsides. Every few months a screaming girlfriend demands that you remove a snake from her bedroom. Whereupon you go in, and find a harmless green snake, and grab him by the tail, and sling him into the woods in the back yard, and consequently appear to be Conan the Barbarian. And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,19:22    Quote And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise. gator wrangler? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Mike PSS Posts: 428 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2007,21:11    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 25 2007,20:22) Quote And lets just say there are worse things to be, boyfriend-wise. gator wrangler? In Florida... Facility Maintenance at a retirement trailer park. That scene could generate a TV series all on its own.

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,06:59    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:55) That is not an action that I would use. Main reason being, it would involve me having to lie. That is not an option that I am willing to do. Stephen, it's only a lie if you don't really have the pentagram, candles, and chicken. Just a thought. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,07:04    Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 25 2007,16:03) I had him for years, fed him, cleaned him, cared for him like a child -- and he still bit me every chance he had. Sounds like my kids. Just sayin'. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,12:24    Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 26 2007,06:59) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,19:55) That is not an action that I would use. Main reason being, it would involve me having to lie. That is not an option that I am willing to do. Stephen, it's only a lie if you don't really have the pentagram, candles, and chicken. Just a thought. :D LOL! Made me laugh. Physically, I don't even have a basement (there is a river within a few feet of my backdoor{makes a basement somewhat problematic}). But, (and I suspect you know) it wasn't the physical reality that I would consider dishonest. It was the mental atitude (and I don't posses a live chicken). I am just not prepared for a hospitable Satanic visit (very remiss of me, I guess). Still, got some ebola and a flaming torch.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2007,21:12    Man, you guys are easy... I always tell them I had a vision from God, and He told me that they are going to ####.  There is nothing they can say to counter that, and I have had excellent results.  Which means of course, that I get left alone. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,00:49    BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,04:32    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 01 2007,00:49) BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). According to Amazon it isn't released just yet. Sure does explain why I had a problem locating one in the shops.   :-)

don_quixote Posts: 110 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,09:16    Found a torrent for Idiocracy at thepiratebay. It really does seem to divide opinion!

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,17:22    Quote (don_quixote @ Mar. 01 2007,09:16) Found a torrent for Idiocracy at thepiratebay. It really does seem to divide opinion! for future reference, there is a reason I mentioned using my PM. I don't think Wes has a problem with posting links to places like PirateBay, but others might, if you get my drift. just a suggestion. btw, it came out in 2005, IIRC, and you can certainly rent it: http://www.netflix.com/MovieDi....0028899 if you don't want to buy it: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000K7VHOG/km-20/ref=nosim -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

don_quixote Posts: 110 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,18:40    Point taken, Ichthyic. That was indeed inconsiderate of me.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2007,18:56    no worries -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2007,06:01    Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. Just pre-ordered it at Amazon. It isn't due for release over here until about the 19th of this month. Still, I ordered "office space" as well and should get that about Wed.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 04 2007,07:13    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Mar. 04 2007,07:01) Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,21:09) for fun, you might try seeing if you can find the movie: Idiocracy It's kind of like what will happen if the ignorant end up outbreeding all the smart people. Just pre-ordered it at Amazon. It isn't due for release over here until about the 19th of this month. Still, I ordered "office space" as well and should get that about Wed. Office Space is very funny IMO.  Let us know how you like it.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 06 2007,13:11    Quote (GCT @ Mar. 04 2007,07:13) Office Space is very funny IMO.  Let us know how you like it. Got it today. Just finished watching it. I thought it was Ok and quite funny but nothing special. Having said that, I have only just watched it and most reports say it is better on 2nd (or 3rd) viewing. The start was very astute on the way people behave (I am talking about the traffic jam). An awfull lot of people will still drive, even when walking is quicker.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2007,13:45    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 01 2007,00:49) BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). Idiocracy arrived this morning. Seen it twice and consider it very funny (but scarily plausible). Trouble is that last night I watched the Corporation. Now that was quite a frightening hypothesis. http://www.thecorporation.com/ Have you seen it? If so, what do you think about it?

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2007,18:07    Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Mar. 20 2007,13:45) Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 01 2007,00:49) BTW, if someone is looking for Idiocracy and they really can't locate it, let me know (PM). Idiocracy arrived this morning. Seen it twice and consider it very funny (but scarily plausible). Trouble is that last night I watched the Corporation. Now that was quite a frightening hypothesis. http://www.thecorporation.com/ Have you seen it? If so, what do you think about it? I've seen "The Corporation" and it is indeed pretty scary, especially since it's not hard to believe.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 22 2007,13:34    Quote (GCT @ Mar. 20 2007,17:07) ... I've seen "The Corporation" and it is indeed pretty scary, especially since it's not hard to believe. Although I suspect some considerable bias in it's making, I doubt that the "facts" presented are very far off the mark. Overall, it does look as though we are headed to #### in a handbasket and it is mostly of our own making. I dread the World that my great-grandchildren arrive in.

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 24 2007,15:08    Seen The Hovind Music Video yet? Funny, funny stuff. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2007,19:51    To paraphrase from the movie "Fletch", Kent Hovind molests Collies. -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 25 2007,20:33    i finally watched that "homage to Hovind". heh, I noticed the author used an image i posted to this very board a year or so ago (the BW of the head-up-ass fella).  It had to be that one, because I edited it out of a magazine ad from way back in 1997, and stripped out a lot of the overlying advertising text. but of course, now I'm going to have the chorus running around my head the rest of the day... "You're a fucktard... Aren't you Kent?" -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Albatrossity2 Posts: 2780 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:10    Bump. Jesus' General has a post entitled "The Wit and Wisdom of Dr. Dino", with some choice quotes from Hovind, e.g. Quote If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. Think about that. . But, per usual for that blog, the best stuff is in the comments... Enjoy! -------------- Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind Has been obligated from the beginning To create an ordered universe As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.                         - Pattiann Rogers

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:46    wow. Quote One theory is that the pre-Flood Earth had a canopy of ice above it that squeezed the atmosphere down to, say, 15 miles [...] If you squeezed the air down to 15 miles - instead of 100 - it would be more clear because there would be less distortion - atmospheric twinkle it's called. And probably this canopy of ice would act as a photo-amplifier where you would actually see things much more clearly. That's one theory that [in] the pre-Flood world you don't need a telescope - you could see incredibly well. Truth Radio 2 October 2006 @ 19:45 If you can read that and not notice that it's completely insane... ...yew jess might be a creationist.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:48    Quote In spite of their ferocious look, many people would probably argue the T-Rex was a vegetarian. The ferocious teeth would have been great for, you know, crushing stuffed pumpkins or something, you know. I don't know if it has ever been proven they were meat eaters. There is plenty of evidence from cracks in the enamel with chlorophyll stains in them indicating they were certainly eating plants. Truth Radio 28 September 2006 @ 10:00 (Tape 1) "MMMMM TOFURKEY!"

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:51    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 24 2007,16:08) Seen The Hovind Music Video yet? Funny, funny stuff. Same tune, Even funnier video... -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:51    Quote I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Truth Radio 1 August 2006 (Tape 1)

Altabin Posts: 308 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,07:58    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 14 2007,14:51) Quote I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Truth Radio 1 August 2006 (Tape 1) The phrase "I don't know if I could prove this" elevates standard-issue tard to immortal comedy. --------------

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,08:01    Quote (Truth Radio @ 1 August 2006,(Tape 1)) I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished for seeing his drunk ass dad naked, but the drunk ass dad didn't get in trouble at all.  It's almost endearing. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,08:12    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,08:01) Quote (Truth Radio @ 1 August 2006,(Tape 1)) I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished for seeing his drunk ass dad naked, but the drunk ass dad didn't get in trouble at all.  It's almost endearing. I think I see one of UD's newest posters beginning to take shape...  It works on so many levels. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,08:13    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,09:01) Quote (Truth Radio @ 1 August 2006,(Tape 1)) I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished for seeing his drunk ass dad naked, but the drunk ass dad didn't get in trouble at all.  It's almost endearing. I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. all i can do is post this bit by Lewis Black, which pretty much sums it up. Quote that's the kind of sentence that when your brain hears it, it comes to a screeching halt. And the left-hand side of the brain looks at the right-hand side of the brain and says, 'It's dark in here, and we may die.'

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 14 2007,08:27    Perhaps I should clarify: I was speaking specifically of the "it wasn't Noah's fault, he didn't know" idea of the last bit there. I've always wondered why Ham and all his descendants were cursed for Ham's accidental sighting of drunk-and-passed-out Noah's peepee, but there's no big smack-down of Noah for getting drunk and passing out. So setting aside the "vapor canopy" crap and the question of whether Ham and his issue deserved to be bitch-slapped for something that was totally accidental (not to mention the "so what?" factor), the question I've never gotten even an attempt at an answer for was, "Why did Noah get let off the hook?" -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Assassinator Posts: 479 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2007,13:32    Quote Fair point Ichy. How would you suggest going about that? I wouldn't know where to start. The bad things missionairy's did in South-America, Africa, and well all around the globe (and not only from 1 religion, or a religion at all, communism falls under that too imo)?

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 18 2008,19:09    Kent Hovind is the gift that keeps on giving. The conversations with the invisible person in the sky continue on his blog, and he's dreaming of a comeback.  Now he's got Job, Joseph, Moses, Joshua, Ruth, and a host of others on a conference call.  Dude has totally lost it at this point. HT: Reverend Big Dumb Chimp -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 23 2008,08:14    Old Kent still moving and shaking, even though he's in jail. I found this on PZ's Pharyngula: The Hovind Scale A handy metric for evaluating ID Cist and YEC comments. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: May 23 2008,12:06    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,08:01) Quote (Truth Radio @ 1 August 2006,(Tape 1)) I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished for seeing his drunk ass dad naked, but the drunk ass dad didn't get in trouble at all.  It's almost endearing. Elsewhere in the Bible, "uncovering nakedness" means having sex with. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 23 2008,12:45    Quote (midwifetoad @ May 23 2008,13:06)   Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,08:01)   Quote (Truth Radio @ 1 August 2006,(Tape 1)) I happen to believe - I don't know if I could prove this - I happen to believe that during the original creation with the canopy of water overhead, increased air pressure and filtered sunlight, fermentation was not possible. I don't think Noah knew what he was doing when he got drunk. It was an accident. He was used to making the grape juice [...] so I'm going to give Noah the benefit of the doubt and assume his getting drunk was purely accidental ignorance. Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished for seeing his drunk ass dad naked, but the drunk ass dad didn't get in trouble at all.  It's almost endearing. Elsewhere in the Bible, "uncovering nakedness" means having sex with. I've heard that interpretation applied to this passage before, but if you think about it, that makes the passage even more problematic for at least two reasons: 1.  Why did Shem and Japeth have to back into the cave with the blanket to cover up drunk-ass dad if the problem was explicitly sex as opposed to nudity? 2.  Noah would have had to be really, really, really blasted drunk to not notice his son giving him the back-door treatment. (Is it even possible to be that drunk?  I suppose it is, but is it possible to be that drunk accidentally?  I sure as hell wouldn't want to deal with the hangover the next day week, that's for sure.) eh, it's as believable as anything else in the Bible, I suppose.  At least there weren't any zombies or talking snakes in that story. (Edited for clarification) (Edited again for particularly egregious abuse of English grammar.) Edited by Lou FCD on May 23 2008,13:48 -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Robert O'Brien Posts: 348 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 26 2008,13:19    Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,08:01) Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished... When I first glanced at this I thought you were referring to Ken Ham.  :D -------------- Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: May 26 2008,17:22    Quote (Robert O'Brien @ May 26 2008,13:19) Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 14 2007,08:01) Well, I have to admit that's the best explanation I've ever heard as to why Ham got punished... When I first glanced at this I thought you were referring to Ken Ham.  :D Just wishing. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

angst Posts: 6 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: May 31 2008,00:43    From CSE Blogs:       Quote –Send postcards and letters to: Kent E. Hovind #06452-017 FCI Edgefield P.O. BOX 725 Edgefield, SC. 29824 USA LOL! I have nothing to say to teh servant of the lord tax evading prick but maybe you do. I'm sure he would appreciate hearing from you.

tmac1238 Posts: 31 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,07:38    Our country fears defeated dictators, laughs at people who fear black helicopters, chase the world for WMDs, and after not finding, laugh at people declared to be insane all under your noses. How did these absurd things happening to America happen under the noses of such intelligent people?  All over the internet are very intelligent people constantly giving everyone who disagrees with them mental diagnoses.  How can the insane things happening in the world today take place under their noses. I fear black helicopters.  And by that fear no one died.  I snickered and giggled when I saw a defeated dictator playing with his rubber ducky in no-fly-zones.  How is it those who accounted themselves mentally superior, were terrified? -------------- Public Death Threats Against All non-Catholics Detects all Propagandists: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/AC....apI.htm The Actual Purpose of the Iraq War: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/iraqwar....war.htm The Actual Purpose of the Patriot Act: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/patriot....act.htm

tmac1238 Posts: 31 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,07:59    What is the secret of this massive hatred against Kent Hovind?  What did he do to any of you personally? Well he's in jail!  He's in jail! So you all are getting practice making fun of him in jail, practicing till the day God's people are there? We believe in the bible, and that books says a time will come when they will be hated of all nations--literally framed for crimes. (Matthew 24:9). The issues surrounding this have already started.  The Patriot Act is set up claiming any American can be detained, condemned and destroyed in secret without them having opportunity to prove their innocence.  Unfortunately, Saddam Hussein didn't have to suffer from this, but got literal due process.  And now, at the same time with the imposition of the Patriot Act, the federal government is struggling against our own borders, working to make the "undocumented (undocumented by the Patriot Act also) to feel comfortable here." The Communists and Nazis already had secret courts, secret trials, intrusive government and torture before we adopted them on paper.  Do we also have a massive propaganda team everywhere--even on the internet--who work with unity to push some of the most ridiculous things making America go backward, here? -------------- Public Death Threats Against All non-Catholics Detects all Propagandists: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/AC....apI.htm The Actual Purpose of the Iraq War: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/iraqwar....war.htm The Actual Purpose of the Patriot Act: http://www.TheirSecrets.info/patriot....act.htm

Nerull Posts: 317 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,08:19    Hovind *and* Black Helicopters. I guess the delusions come in groups. You are the people dragging america backwards. Keep lying for Jesus! -------------- To rebut creationism you pretty much have to be a biologist, chemist, geologist, philosopher, lawyer and historian all rolled into one. While to advocate creationism, you just have to be an idiot. -- tommorris

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,12:37    Quote (tmac1238 @ June 28 2008,07:59) What is the secret of this massive hatred against Kent Hovind?  What did he do to any of you personally? One down, many to go... -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,13:10    Quote (tmac1238 @ June 28 2008,08:38) How did these absurd things happening to America happen under the noses of such intelligent people?  All over the internet are very intelligent people constantly giving everyone who disagrees with them mental diagnoses.  How can the insane things happening in the world today take place under their noses. The Xian hegemony in this country has been going on for quite a bit longer than the intarwebs.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2008,13:17    Quote (tmac1238 @ June 28 2008,08:59) What is the secret of this massive hatred against Kent Hovind?  What did he do to any of you personally? Well, he bilked people out of their money, he set back education in the country (which does affect us all), and he set tax-payers back with his tax evasion schemes (which also affects us all)...and that's just for starters. Quote Well he's in jail!  He's in jail! Where he deserves to be. Quote So you all are getting practice making fun of him in jail, practicing till the day God's people are there? Nope, just those who break the law. Quote We believe in the bible, and that books says a time will come when they will be hated of all nations--literally framed for crimes. (Matthew 24:9). It does not say that anyone will be framed for crimes, and besides, Hovind wasn't framed. Quote The issues surrounding this have already started.  The Patriot Act is set up claiming any American can be detained, condemned and destroyed in secret without them having opportunity to prove their innocence. And I don't support the Patriot Act, which incidentally, your friends in Christ enacted. Quote The Communists and Nazis already had secret courts, secret trials, intrusive government and torture before we adopted them on paper. Which, again, your friends in Christ enacted.  Perhaps you and your Xian friends should denounce those other Xians. Quote Do we also have a massive propaganda team everywhere--even on the internet--who work with unity to push some of the most ridiculous things making America go backward, here? Why are you calling for propaganda?  Anyway, there are organizations that are fighting against the fascist leanings of our very Xian president...like the ACLU.  Perhaps you should support them.

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,16:35    I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. As for Dr. Hovinds' state of mind, what does what expect to see from a normally human person, a good man, a church going God-fearing man who is persecuted by the very forses that keep God out of schools?

Richardthughes Posts: 11177 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,16:46    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,16:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. As for Dr. Hovinds' state of mind, what does what expect to see from a normally human person, a good man, a church going God-fearing man who is persecuted by the very forses that keep God out of schools? I give your parody 7/10. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Chayanov Posts: 289 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,17:05    Needs more misspelled words and a lot more caps. Random font and color changes wouldn't hurt, either. -------------- Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

dnmlthr Posts: 565 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,17:09    +1 for paranoia though, that was a nice touch. -------------- Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

American Saddlebred Posts: 111 Joined: May 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,17:39    What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better?

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,17:41    Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,18:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? Yes, better. Quote creatard Excellent touch.

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:05    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 30 2008,16:46) Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,16:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. As for Dr. Hovinds' state of mind, what does what expect to see from a normally human person, a good man, a church going God-fearing man who is persecuted by the very forses that keep God out of schools? I give your parody 7/10. What parody? What do you mean 7/10?

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:11    Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,17:05) Needs more misspelled words and a lot more caps. Random font and color changes wouldn't hurt, either. Hey, even I know ALL CAPS is rude.  As for my spelling, well I guess it's better to shoot the messenger when you can't handle the message. I'm trying to be polite here.  You guys are making it hard to have a real discussion.  And yes Dr. Hovind has shown the cowardise of Evolution lackeys and their masters.  I noticed that noone yet has agreed to debate Dr. Hovind. While I've only been on here a little while, I've seen that professor from Florida, Joe Meart, and his half hearten attempt.  He won't agree to reasonable terms so he's, as we say it, "are blowing smoke". One thing, why is "random caps" and "color changes" something to look for?

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:12    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,21:05) Quote (Richardthughes @ June 30 2008,16:46) Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,16:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. As for Dr. Hovinds' state of mind, what does what expect to see from a normally human person, a good man, a church going God-fearing man who is persecuted by the very forses that keep God out of schools? I give your parody 7/10. What parody? What do you mean 7/10? I'm a bit more discerning, and would have given 5, tops. Anyone at all biting on this? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:12    Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,17:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? Your mocking me aren't you?

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:16    Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,15:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? You have a gift. Use it for good instead of evil. lcd could learn from you, hint hint. (PS: Mix up 'there', 'their' and 'they're' more.) -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:17    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,21:12) Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,17:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? Your mocking me aren't you? What gave it away? -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:18    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,20:12) Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,17:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? Your mocking me aren't you? Only on the surface. Deep inside we are seeing our whole worldview collapse at the feet of your incisive logic.  We are scared of the dark that is enveloping us and we shake our fists at it in a futile attempt to stave off the inevitable. -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:29    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,14:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. I heered them revenooers was after him for his moonshine still. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Dr.GH Posts: 2324 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:33    Quote (carlsonjok @ June 30 2008,18:18) Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,20:12) Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,17:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? Your mocking me aren't you? Only on the surface. Deep inside we are seeing our whole worldview collapse at the feet of your incisive logic.  We are scared of the dark that is enveloping us and we shake our fists at it in a futile attempt to stave off the inevitable. Yeah, I near pissed my pants with... well not really. It isn't even that funny. If Icd is a pretend creato, we can do it better. If they are for real, then it is merely pathetic. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:34    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 30 2008,20:16) Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,15:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? You have a gift. Use it for good instead of evil. lcd could learn from you, hint hint. (PS: Mix up 'there', 'their' and 'they're' more.) Learn what?  I don't understand what you're getting at. As for telling people to purposely misspell words, I'll do my best to stop.  I'll run this through Word and so there will be no spelling errors. As for what Saddlebred wrote, that is just wrong.  The worst part is I doubt if they even believe what they wrote.  Yeah, the great Evolutionists.  I guess mocking is what they are all about. But I will pray for you all.

Dr.GH Posts: 2324 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:37    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 30 2008,18:29) Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,14:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. I heered them revenooers was after him for his moonshine still. When I was in Georgia, there was a candidate for county sheriff who ran on the promise that he would "Clean up the moonshiners."  He didn't mean to shut them down, just "clean them up." It seems there were some poor quality 'shiners who used lead solder, and over cooked (ran the still too hot).  This resulted in a dangerous mix of toxins. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:39    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,21:34) The worst part is I doubt if they even believe what they wrote.   Can't slip nuthin' by you, huh? I'm guessing lame imitation.  Dr. GH is right, we can do much better. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:47    Quote (Dr.GH @ June 30 2008,18:37)   Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 30 2008,18:29)     Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,14:35) I can't believe that people would be so happy to see Dr. Hovind in jail.  After all he was put there by that illegal government instytution the IRS.  An ilegal entitity is ever their were one. I heered them revenooers was after him for his moonshine still. When I was in Georgia, there was a candidate for county sheriff who ran on the promise that he would "Clean up the moonshiners."  He didn't mean to shut them down, just "clean them up." It seems there were some poor quality 'shiners who used lead solder, and over cooked (ran the still too hot).  This resulted in a dangerous mix of toxins. In Nick Tosches' bio of Jerry Lee Lewis, he mentions an incident where they found a dead cottonmouth in Jerry Lee's uncle's still. Steve would probably drink that. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,20:59    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,20:34) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 30 2008,20:16) Quote (American Saddlebred @ June 30 2008,15:39) What, are you all scare of the TRUTH?  [B]DR.[/] Kent Hovind proves that evolution is IMPOSSIBLE and it is a RELIGON that send you to HELL.  That really hot place I cant wait to see you all go to so I can LAUGH at your.  Do YOU think the earth can really be BILLIONS of years old?  You werent there to see it!  GOD creatard me.  Not some MONKEYS AND GOO.  You need to OPEN your eyes to the TRUTH. I will PRAY for you. ....better? You have a gift. Use it for good instead of evil. lcd could learn from you, hint hint. (PS: Mix up 'there', 'their' and 'they're' more.) Learn what?  I don't understand what you're getting at. As for telling people to purposely misspell words, I'll do my best to stop.  I'll run this through Word and so there will be no spelling errors. As for what Saddlebred wrote, that is just wrong.  The worst part is I doubt if they even believe what they wrote.  Yeah, the great Evolutionists.  I guess mocking is what they are all about. But I will pray for you all. lcd - I think you owe American Saddlebred an apology.  He is one of this board's most reverent members, and just because he posts like  your average Creotard, doesn't mean he iS one.   Get down on your knees and beg forgiveness, for vengence is mine sayeth The Lord.  And Fred Phelps. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

lcd Posts: 137 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,21:10    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 30 2008,20:39) Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,21:34) The worst part is I doubt if they even believe what they wrote.   Can't slip nuthin' by you, huh? I'm guessing lame imitation.  Dr. GH is right, we can do much better. "Lame imitation"? "We can do much better"? Oh, I get it.  You can do a parody of what you believe people like me who know and believe in God's word as the way it was, is and will be, better?  So you guys make up "strawmen" to knock down and pretend to be believers? Isn't that a lot like saying that when you guys run low on women, do a few of you pretend to be ladies?  Would that be something you guys take turns at? I guess that to be a "better creationist", in your guys opinions, means that I have to act like saddlebags there and be a "returd" or whatever the name you want to use? So in your language:  Ah yes, the brain power of the evolutionist continues to impress me, not. I was told about this place, actually WWW.TALKORIGINS.ORG from our VBS at the Church last week.  It ran from the 22nd to the 26th.  I prefer the concise and clear answers given by the good people at Trueorigins, but I digress.  There's a lot to be learned at VBS.  I'd invite you all to try it at a Church of your choice.  Although I will say it should be at a Bible believing Church. See I now know why you guys are upset.  We have answers.  We have Christ.  Now, I'm not going to get all upset and, I mean I'll try to do my best, because we were taught to feel sorry for you. Evolution is materialism at it's worst, and that's a fact.  If Evolution were true, then we wouldn't be here.  Yes, that is a fact.  Without the guidance of God's word supplemented by Christ's time on Earth, we would have killed ourselves off.  That is why Evolution, the idea that we have no meaning, must be defeated.  After all, look at Stalin, Mao and other atheists who supported evolution.  Granted it may not be what you guys now have put on the mantle of your altar of science now, evolution can never be disproved as it is always shifting the goal posts, but they were atheists and as atheists they sure as heck didn't believe in Creation now did they?

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,21:20    As a wise person once said, once they believe in the talking snake, everything else is easy.   :D -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,21:23    Quote (lcd @ June 30 2008,19:10) If Evolution were true, then we wouldn't be here. The Nonsequitor of the Week award goes to...     Quote Yes, that is a fact.  Without the guidance of God's word supplemented by Christ's time on Earth, we would have killed ourselves off.   You're right. Ever since Jesus came, the world has been so much less violent.   Quote That is why Evolution, the idea that we have no meaning, must be defeated.   By your secret weapon..... Kent Hovind! Eeeek! Run for the hills!!!!   Quote After all, look at Stalin, Mao and other atheists who supported evolution.  Stalin had Darwinists thrown in jail. Please give me a reference where you found out about Mao's feelings about biology. Incidentally, is there a reason why you left out Hitler's name there? Oversight?   Quote Granted it may not be what you guys now have put on the mantle of your altar of science now, Thanks for the vote of confidence, big fella. Maybe if you ever meet a real scientist your life, you'll learn even more.     Quote evolution can never be disproved as it is always shifting the goal posts, Since I assume your pastor told you all this, I suggest you ask him what 'projection' means.     Quote but they were atheists and as atheists they sure as heck didn't believe in Creation now did they? Yeah!!! And why do we still have apes? Therefore, God. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Lou FCD Posts: 5452 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2008,21:35    Sorry, not biting.  You're a fake, and a rather poor one. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend