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Date: 2006/05/04 06:51:42, Link
Author: k.e
Hey guys the Fundy King of Fundie Kings has been cream not God, GWB.
McCain got a mention too, he's ah...seen the light.... apparently its at Jones University.

Gee the whole #### edifice is getting a great shake, Dembski is just irrelavent.
The best bits of ID are the JAD/DaveS stoush on Tzar Larry's blog  like watching a fight between two old drunks on payday, everone just stands around and watches them bloody each other ...priceless.

Date: 2006/05/04 07:31:55, Link
Author: k.e
hey half a dave

Forget about the.. ah theory (snigger)BS I've got a much better idea for you. Take a tip from someone who really knows how to sell a great idea(giggle). Merda d'artista available for a small price
much more valuable than ID its a collectable....a bit like ID.
You should go out and get all those books while they last
half a dave before they become as rare as rocking horse s**t.

Date: 2006/05/04 08:04:49, Link
Author: k.e
awww Billy's thumb is all sucked dry.
Boo hoo hoo.
whose a sad widdle baaaby

Date: 2006/05/06 08:47:45, Link
Author: k.e
Smaaaoooking indeed

Date: 2006/05/12 06:02:01, Link
Author: k.e
STJ---above,describes a consuming illness at the house of ID.
Yes the Tweedle brothers are quite mad, little willy and Riechs Fiend dSS, the Ministerialdirektor at the Dumbskipropagandasylum seem both to suffer fromNarcissistic personality disorder.
Sadly Count Billious Von Dembstern was beaten by his vicious sadistic pater, or was it mater?, probably for doing too much math homework and all the while his submissive and godfearing mama said that gad really did exist and all this was his doing. Well our little willy was not going to let THAT happen again He was going to decide what g0d wanted and no amount of lying(by his mother or him) is going to stop him. dSS, Herr Sychophant, plays the idiot savant (without the savant) second fiddler completing in an ill fitting  dress and loud lipstick for a little of his grandnesses smooth glances.
Reminds me of a hilarious scene from an old Cheech and Chong movie where they play a South American Aztec God and his sychophantic off sider dSS has used a direct quote out of it. Can't find the exact reference tho.

Date: 2006/05/12 07:01:08, Link
Author: k.e
Stevestory ....Grumble, I have more hair and my beard is much greyer...... I trying to send Gillette broke :>.
In fact I'm almost as good loking as Reverend Billy and the Church of Stop Shopping
The good rev. in your photo seems to be hailing a cab probably to give the driver the word of reason
Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
well he DID loose all his hair and have you tried to hail a cab as a man dressed in a smock?

Date: 2006/05/12 07:35:08, Link
Author: k.e
Cozoid,my wife, teaches media at high school, and had a culture jammers video, which, had the good rev.,. doing his thing, at a Disney store in NYC, along with the Billboard Liberation Front a treat,,,,:)

Date: 2006/05/13 05:03:41, Link
Author: k.e

So if you want me to convert, you might try the calm, rational technique, rather than the "Rant/Rave/Rotten Tomato" technique

Oh yeah? Convert to what? Rational thinking?From what ?
For someone boasting about how tough they are, you seem to be remarkably thin skinned.
The old 'turn the other cheek' is not a call to to behave stupidly in the face of cognitive dissonance it is a method to ensure the so called faithful don't change their minds when fed to the lions, as a cult forming technique it is almost perfect and drives the lions owners mad with rage, which destroys from within ,as the old pagan Romans found to their chagrin. If they had taken more notice of the psycho politics they would have stolen the idea for themselves....oh right ...Emperor Justinian did just that, with one caveat....Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and the bishops can have the sheep's brains. The call by JC at his sermon on the mount not to insult people needlessly follows a similar thread, not a postmodernist political correctness to act with sweetness and light promoting mindlessness or mendacity but a method to claim the moral high ground where the attacker discredits himself by his projected anger, a central theme in Zen too BTW. In JC's case he should have listened to his own words when he took on the money changers but then he was nothing if not a radical, a point completely washed from history in today's Fundamentalist churches. In other words the Fundies are much more concerned with materialistic wealth and a desperate grasp for more (material and converts) at the expense of those outside their belief group, that the actual message of their figurative head is conveniently forgotten and obscured by a whole raft of ancient ideologies rationalizing ignorance,war and pillage.
Take the redefinition of 'materialism' itself, old JC said it would be tougher for a rich man to ...etc etc.... was against it. So what do the Fundies do ? Redefine the religious constraint against actual materialistic greed to actual natural material. The Catholic church is partly to blame here , how can you justify owning more land, bricks, mortar, and vast incomes for thousands of years all the while suppressing natural knowledge?....easy make nature evil and god outside of man and they get to say what the one true word of god is and HE doesn't like natural materialism (but not good old mammon..god forbid). Pity the renaissance removed the church as the commercial center of society and could, indeed needed to independently fund science. The late 1800's Fundies were a reaction to modernity and the rise of power of the secular state  so they replaced rationalism and the new mechanical understanding of nature which they confused with the new  mechanistic  role people had to play in society to survive, as though they were machines with a call to a higher power ..their own, very seductive to a disenfranchised lower class and strangely to their robber baron masters . What better way to explain ones position in relation to a higher power if authority is removed from those very  classes who resent modernity stealing their lives. The meek shall inherit the earth? Huh? After the Priests and Kings have collected their cut the meek will get what they #### well deserve, as they have always  done since Kings ,Priests, CEO's and elected reps came into existence. When the recontructionists morphed that 'higher' power into an old testament dictator, material nature became their religious  enemy (again ...predictably) and all was justified by their simple minds ( and their target audience)  promoting a crude redefinition of serious person gives them any credit except for cultural engineering on 'pods'.

Don't bother airboy in my bar we don't need sissy's ,you're just not brave enough, its dangerous out here and you just don't have what it takes. So swig the soma and live in ignorant bliss and when you die, you know what? You will never know that heaven is a state of mind in the here and now and you walk out on it and shut the door when its over. You're a victim half a dave, of an institutional delusion and your repitition of a three letter word means nothing.

Date: 2006/05/14 04:27:21, Link
Author: k.e
Ok half a dave no problem.
You will have us all 100% convinced if you produce your god and say a phone number we can speak to him, he does speak English doesn't he?  Old English or New English BTW? Should be no problem for you since you have 100% certainty. how much time do you need?
A gap or your saying so is not a god or a proof, just thought I would let you know that.
sounds of grasshoppers humping
just as I thought
God is not provable because there is no objective proof for its existance and by definition does not exist, other than by human subjective thought, end that and even the subjective existance disapears as have thousands of dreamt up thunder,sea,sky,snake,female,male gods since man climed down from the trees.
In fact half a dave you could say that gods  ARE the result of human evolution as you rightly suspect and IF CD is true, destroys your T-Model God.
Head back in the sand half a dave.
snicker giggle

Date: 2006/05/14 04:56:00, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah Alan, that was a hoot.
But hey, you went out of your way to tell them that Renard is French for Fox.
They are so anal, they seem to get some sort of fetishistic pleasure out of examining their running critique. Freud had some words to say on that BTW dSS.
You might learn something if you look it up.
Sieg Hail   Hans Fritzsche  Dave S. Springer; Ministerialdirektor at the Propagandaministerium for creobabies with fetishes. Keep coming back dSS, more insults to follow (you know you love it).
Oh can I say how much I enjoyed your street theater with JAD ?
Thanks, you just can't make that stuff up, improved your credibility from zero to ...oh right there nothing less is there?

Date: 2006/05/14 06:37:48, Link
Author: k.e
Oh, oops Alan
deepest apologies
Obe Wan mangeur de lapin  :D

Date: 2006/05/14 07:19:32, Link
Author: k.e
mmadigan is going to steal the jesters thorny crown
and Jewish to boot.
With a lovely tie into 6 Day creation, even the good doc. can't match that.
Every nutjob in the country will be trying to tip WADS boat.

Date: 2006/05/14 07:30:31, Link
Author: k.e
I can't wait for dSS to skewer Gerald Schroeder for us
Go Dave ....hehhehehehehehe

Date: 2006/05/14 08:55:57, Link
Author: k.e
No, I'll take back that 'every nutjob in the country' taunt not even Gerald Schroeder is in little willy's category. B is way out on his own , I've just held my nose long enough to read
mind blowing .....the man is certifiable, although he does tickle up the YECers in a very strange way. By squirming around with such useless words as noetic and theodicy.
In short a justification for no-ethic theo-idiocy, take note no fact zone man.

Date: 2006/05/15 06:46:03, Link
Author: k.e
Said Faid:

...Are you guys sure we don't have to pay for all this? I don't wanna see any kind of "Dumbo&Co entertainment fees" charged in my account somehow...

Yeah great isn't it?
There HAS to be money in this somewhere, is there a market for watching clowns trip over themselves....oh yeah...the circus.
Pity the animal rights people have set the bar higher and the lower mammals are now not allowed to be baited for human entertainment. We could clean up.
Let’s see... what has the uncommonly dense asylum actors troupe performed for us through the bars?
1)The humor of political correctness performed while being indistinguishable from a pompous fascist.
2)The pathos of vanity and folly causing unintentionally irony while  being perfectly inconsistent, coupled with the incongruity of their own perceived seriousness…irony in it’s truest sense.
3)THE FUN of seeing dumb city boy proper WASP clones mistake common sense with the effects of an opiate....they don't need big silly shoes to seem like they can barely stand up.
4)A parody on the last supper .....Eating crow as though it were fine French cuisine flushed down with Dover whine made from tears of DI Martyrs
5)A history lesson.....Proving Voltaire right long after his death.
6)A literature lesson ......Making  Beckett’s and Orwell's work seem like it could have been written yesterday.
7)A lesson in humility….Dang…. I mean sarcasm.
8)The Ultimate lesson......Making Finnegans Wake  (the version without the apostrophe) intelligible in the sense there is nothing new under the night and the dreams of language makers.
9) So lets drink to the accidental entertainers and hope the never-ending mirth they supply will never let this list be completed….perhaps they could make the whole thing Open Source and then I could play it on a game boy…nah….. then it would be predictable…

Date: 2006/05/15 18:59:05, Link
Author: k.e
Take it easy, GoP's a lumberjack, he just wishes he was a girly like his dear Papa.
GoP your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
And he still won't get it. He's humor challenged.
For him the world is perfectly explainable by inane nonsense already and IS reality why would reality be funny?
Reminds me when 2 Mormon's or some such (GB's) arrived at my front door and I asked them if they were familiar with Monty Pythons Holy Grail.
GB's"yeah we love that movie"
I said "do you remember when the 2 knights rode up to a castle, guarded by 2 Frenchmen, asking if their master wanted to go on a quest for the holy grail ?"
GB's"uh yeah"
I "well I've already got one"
GB's"huh..... I don't get it"
No BS I had to explain it to them like they were Martians, the look of horror on their faces was priceless.

Date: 2006/05/18 06:49:40, Link
Author: k.e
Mr Chritopher slight mod needed for the DI price

This made me wonder why Demsbki and the con men for jesus at the DI don't offer a cash reward for ANY legitimate scientific evidence for intelligent design.  Something that could be tested and such.  They could call the cash award something like the The noble DI LIED Prize or whatnot

Date: 2006/05/18 19:59:00, Link
Author: k.e
Off the subject,.... hilarious band names, how about Aussie band Machine Gun Fellatio complete with KK Juggy who performs nude calisthenics on stage? You have been warned.

STJ The only reason I can think you need to change your handle is that your toe is getting really sore about Sir Hopsalot? or Sir Wearsoutalottaboots hardly inspiring I know.But for a little hilarity you could have 2 names and start argueing with yourself. Accusing each other of stealing your handles, throwing in some moral relativism and slandering each other by saying the other is a closet Nazi. hehehehe just the usual ID type stuff.

Date: 2006/05/18 22:03:15, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah the circular tautology of Mien Undermench Obercensor dSS's reasoning is ...well tautologically circular.

a simple basic program code snippet pseudo instruction
10 Start and or end End
20 reason with no start or end
30 End and or start
40 goto 10

Date: 2006/05/19 06:48:09, Link
Author: k.e
yeah Ghosty reality has a liberal bias tuff
but even better humor has a liberal bias

St Peter decides to take the day off to go fishing, so Jesus offers to keep an eye on the Pearly Gates. He is not sure what to do, so Peter tells him to find out a bit about people as they arrive in Heaven, and this will help him decide if he can let them in.

After a while, Jesus sees a little old man with white hair approaching who looks very, very familiar. He asks the old man to tell him about himself. The old man says, "I had a very sad life. I was a carpenter and had a son who I lost at a relatively young age, and although he was not my natural child, I loved him dearly."

Jesus welled up with emotion. He threw his arms around the old man and cried, "Daddy!"

The old man replied, "Pinocchio?"

Date: 2006/05/21 07:47:53, Link
Author: k.e
Yikes C.S.Lewis ??
What are you trying to do half a Dave give the guy a bad name? He wrote children's stories and was not much of an expert at anything else including morality and the universe, as if there were such a thing. Next 1/2 a D will be saying eating vegitables and invading 3rd world countries to steal their oil is immoral and against God's will because the universe sets the rules...sheesh
Yeah 1/2 a D manifest destiny is written in the stars....... in Portuguese French perhaps?
By the way there are more French words in the English language than in the Portuguese language and the 'official' French Language of today  originally came from the Germanic Frankish court/legal system and it was only widely spoken all over France displacing regional dialects around a 100 years ago so are you going to say that Portuguese is a Germanic language perhaps half a Dave?
Oh thats right you don't even understand English.
Have you even studied another language?Oh yeah
Special English

its for special people half a Dave.

All this stuff just re-enforces half a Dave's martyr complex.
"See how badly they treat me God and I still believe in you , you can count on me. When I'm done here I just know you are going to send all these bad , nasty, horrible devils disciples down, down ,down into a Nietzchian 
abyss ** and raise good old me up to be your right hand man dishing out morality to all the angels"

**(The  underworld described in Greek and Egyptian mythology was Nietzsche's  and Dante's (oh and half a Dave's) abyss. Those stories described with easily decoded metaphors commonly understood in their day, something largely lost today unless through scholarship, recognizable milestones for ones progress through and hopefully out of the abyss. Fairy tales for adults . A sort of journey through the psyche, the inner journey as Campbell and Jung described, not unlike tempory schizophrenia i.e. rearranging the brain to function in the real world. The journey through the underworld AS STORY was the treatment in those ancient times. Campbell's take on the  The Egyptian book of the dead (and schizophrenia) is a very interesting read if anyone is game)

Date: 2006/05/21 07:55:29, Link
Author: k.e
I think it would be true to say in 1/2 a D's case that his brain is frozen in a state not unlike schizophrenia i.e. unable to determine what is real and what is not.
The horse in his case  bolted years ago.

Date: 2006/05/21 08:09:20, Link
Author: k.e
they kind of want to have it both ways don't they.

If the Producer/Prehistoric Genetic Engineer wanted to zap primitive replicating life into existence why bother creating a non living world devoid of life in the first place?
Heck maybe he was autistic and just got the joke, 3.5 or so billions years later, that a world without life was not going to have them (other gods one presumes) laughing in the aisles. That's the half a Dave denial, to accept an old earth is an anathema for that obvious reason. The big g... HAS to do it all at once otherwise his is redundant

Then on the other hand if rocks and water are living things an old earth is feasible, since those six days were just billion year days, give or take a day or two and the magic of a very, very slow learner for a god is perfectly explainable, that's the CarolC scriptural revisionism school of creation.
If life and rocks are the same thing any magical thought is real, including healing crystals, the restorative powers of old Elvis memorabilia, and psychic surgery.

Let the fun continue

Date: 2006/05/21 08:54:34, Link
Author: k.e
hahhahahahahahaha BWE.
Love the steet names where the the Temples are, surely gdo's *exclusive* houses of worship would be at more uplifting addresses e.g. cnr Gethsemane and Gardin , I picture  Gothic Revival American Church Architecture rather than this Bauhaus-style The imposing Martin Luther Memorial Church in Mariendorf but then I digress

Date: 2006/05/21 09:40:28, Link
Author: k.e
Russell Just glossing over the Tower of Babel myth I immediately thought of the fight  over and the crossed purposefulnesses of the building of the replacements for the twin towers. Different agendas, corporate power vs people power, differing visions, no agreement yet. In other words a huge project and everyone talking past each other and not understanding and perhaps not wanting to understand the other, each claiming to have a legitimate and final authority. It doesn't stretch the imagination too much to think that such a project in the ancient world claimed a kingdom or two's treasuries with competing architect priests and imported workers building a proto pyramid or ziggurat for ...ah the usual reasons....the glory of priests and kings. Not forgetting the obvious conclusion that it is a convienient way to explain away the development of various languages.

Date: 2006/05/21 14:51:05, Link
Author: k.e
STJ there are a couple of new names here for you
Hugo Now
Gene Theives

Hugo Steelgenes walks into a futuristic brain bar and orders a beer and a young ....

this could could be fun.

Date: 2006/05/21 15:01:09, Link
Author: k.e
Metachatter-Yeah Arden I was going to do that but the inpiration came from posts directed to STJ on this thread.

Date: 2006/05/21 15:53:54, Link
Author: k.e
continuing....a young not unattractive female of the opposite sexual pesausion sitting at the otherwise emty seaside bar on that cold spring morning is deeply engrossed in a hardcover book. Hugo looks over and smiles"interesting book?" she frowns and holds it up so he can read the cover. "The Selfish Gene" he reads as she stares directly into his eyes. He raises his eybrows and introduces himself "I'm Hugo, I'm an ithycologist" this momentarily disarms her frown, but before she can say anything the door bursts open, "Is there an ithycologist here?" a distraught call comes from someone who seems to have just run up from the beach........

Date: 2006/05/21 15:57:54, Link
Author: k.e
bah cut and paste no work
thats ichthyologist

Date: 2006/05/21 17:29:42, Link
Author: k.e

Yeah they always bring that up as the last resort. When all else fails deny everything, the Rumsfeld solution.

What the heck are they complaining about? They got their hands on the wheel of the most powerful nation on earth, its practically a crime to be an atheist in public life, effectively shut down teaching evolution and the real enemy for them; the method by which the closest thing to truth can be determined, by omission, seen the rise and rise of consumerist religiosity posing as Christ's ideal (what camo uniform would JC wear, would he buy a laser gun-sight unit made in China? a personal god you understand), and after all that with the world at their feet .....they project nihilism....well of course, maybe now they are starting to wake up......the Bible and previous other tomes of wisdom has the answer as an historical observation. "He who God wants to destroy, he first drives insane". Or He who ignores the obvious will be left without a leg to stand on....nihilism a dangerous tool in the wrong hands.

Here's my reply to that

Apologies to Yeats

What rough beast slouches off to Baghdad

The Second Coming


TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight:  somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Baghdad to be born? .

Date: 2006/05/21 18:12:19, Link
Author: k.e
An old codger no one noticed before sitting in the corner smoking a pipe and drinkning neat schapps, struggled to his foot, his other was a wooden leg. "Arrrgh.." he calls "shes give me my other leg"
Hugo and Victor look at each other in astonishment, "you mean that giant squid was here before?" they both said at once.
The old man looked at them wide eyed, "What the #### are you talking about? Katy my nurse, shes at the bar with me new leg".....

Date: 2006/05/21 18:31:02, Link
Author: k.e
STJ IMO Yeat's half beast half man calls to mind; Man as an animal with all the primitave drive and carnal lust hooked to cunning intelligence, without mercy or concept of decency, based on a pagan deity the stony sphinx sitting in the desert devoid of life to give, but eager to take, and feared by all the other creatures who can only reel indignant when it begins to move. Think Rawanda.

CSL calls to mind the noble King of the animals/Kings and given mythical powers and perfect know a fairy tale.

Date: 2006/05/22 16:24:29, Link
Author: k.e
Well, well, well.
How revealing 1/2 a D 'claims victory' shades of MP's Black Knight there is no finer example of a deluded mind denying facts, reason and honesty.
The other observation I have is the methodology employed by 1/2 a D vs the 'crew'.

It would seem that everyone except D/2 did some basic research and did not overstep their own ability. How in this day with so much information available on line, one could honestly make such a mistake lead me to conclude that D/2 is more mendacious than ignorant.

Considering we are graced with the presence of a PhD in linguistics whose knowledge, skills, professionalism and yes one could reasonably conclude proven honesty in the field of linguistics due to his qualifications; I for one would not be rushing to claim 'victory' over a foolish statement based on listening to kitchen conversations with my family and friends and one tiny snippet of European history.

It's clear to me D/2  has not the faintest knowledge of the history of language development and does not seem to have studied first hand any Romance Language.
I studied Latin and French at high school for 3 years and would not rush to make any such claims.

However, I would claim that one can not truly understand ones own language without studying another related language. The structure of my mother tongue, English was completely opaque until I found that Latin and French use different object,subject,verb structures masculine and feminine forms, verb conjugation, just to name the trivial differences. Seeing the Latin root word and it's French and English cousins and the subtle shift in meanings, in the raw if you like, help with forming a more sophisticated world view of history and cultural imperatives.
Particularly with regard to understanding what a world view actually is.

As someone once said “We know water was discovered by someone or something but we can be very sure it wasn't a fish”.

1/2 a D is literally swimming in ignorance, that is, a lack of even a basic education in western culture and I would argue an impotence in acquiring any useful knowledge simply because he lacks the ability to critically examine any information regardless of its sources.

Why? Fundamentalism does not test the truth you are told what to think, just take orders and execute like a good soldier, no critical thinking needed or desired, in fact it is crushed and removed from the adherent WHEN THEY ARE CHILREN by professional lying liars.

The scientific method and its test for truth (Darwinism) is Fundamentalism's enemy and is thus the enemy of education,knowledge,truth, honesty and mankind's collected wisdom.

1/2 a Dave is just Fundy cannon fodder, he's had his brains turned to mush.

He is incapable of telling himself what is true and what is not, because he believes a lie is true.

Date: 2006/05/22 22:37:24, Link
Author: k.e
BWE which thread did d/2 delete and is it on your conglomerated thread?
I wouldn't mind finding out what crack in his reality wall let in the cold light of day.

Date: 2006/05/23 03:10:56, Link
Author: k.e
Well he's certainly not here to learn anything

Date: 2006/05/23 03:40:53, Link
Author: k.e
What alternative universe is he[dSS a so called agnostic ;) ;) ;) ] from?

The universe where he doesn't believe in anything he doesn't believe in.......regardless.
of the number of times he has been shown to be dead wrong. Sort of like that politician who said "I believe IN what I believe (presumably what is true for him)" pure  tautological solipsism. dSS doesn't have to look up tautology now because someone told him that it meant "A circular argument" but ...ah he will probably have to look up Solipsism. Thats a hint Dave I know you never check out words you don't understand...but then you have no need for a dictionary do you? You already know everything. Got any spare Mushrooms Dave? Did they evolve into a cat?

Date: 2006/05/23 04:05:24, Link
Author: k.e
Renier;Ask and ye shall receive!

That's what pisses me off so much about the Fundies.
They embody dire consequences for education and the enlightenment. They are simply incapable of getting off their collective useless asses and following the evidence. That; Plus their poor education and forced acceptance of an untestable 'truth' when children, causes a woeful and almost criminal lack of ability to then test for truth.

It's not a coincidence that that suits certain politicians and televison evangelists.

Date: 2006/05/23 04:18:02, Link
Author: k.e
Russell you need to know what happened before the Romans ;) look up

origins celtic language

plus this link below  has lots of interesting factoids and links.... yes knowing the history of English will tell you a lot about other languages

try   origins french language indo-european

quick overview

Date: 2006/05/23 05:05:21, Link
Author: k.e
Anyone spot the obvious here regarding Portuguese oui?

Langue d'oïl is an Old French term meaning language of oïl—i.e. language in which the word for "yes" is oïl.

The medieval Italian poet Dante in his De vulgari eloquentia wrote in Latin: "nam alii oc, alii si, alii vero dicunt oil" ("some say oc, others say si, others say oïl"), thereby classifying the Romance languages into three groups: oïl languages (in northern France); oc languages (in southern France) and si languages (in Italy and Iberia). Vulgar Latin developed different methods of signifying assent: hoc ille ("this (is) it") and hoc ("this"), which became the langues d'oïl and langue d'oc (or Occitan language), respectively. Subsequent development changed "oïl" into "oui" as in modern French. (Other Romance languages derive their word for yes from the Latin sic, "thus", such as the Spanish sí, Italian sì, or Portuguese sim.)

Modern linguists typically divide the languages spoken in medieval France into three geographical subgroups: Langue d'oïl and Langue d'oc are the two major groups; the third group, Franco-Provençal, is considered a transitional language between the two other groups.

The Oïl languages in their range from Belgium across northern and central France and the Channel Islands form a dialect continuum.

The language generally referred to as French is an Oïl language, but the territories of France have for centuries included large groups of speakers of Oïl languages other than French, as well as speakers of languages outside the Oïl language family (see Languages of France).

Although there were competing literary standards among the Oïl languages in the mediaeval period, the centralisation of the French kingdom and its influence even outside its formal borders sent most of the Oïl languages into comparative obscurity for several centuries.

Date: 2006/05/23 06:24:02, Link
Author: k.e
Wow, delusional projection there D/2 I expect you have looked up what projection is on wiki....(smirk)

Seriously still claiming victory on the French Portuguese thingy I see based on a book about medievil ku-nigits, how fitting , any tales of sorcery in them ? Derring do?, Fair Maidens? Any Swords OR DRAGONS... Any missionizing d/2? Rape and pillaging ?.hehehehehe

D/2 BWE is far too generous with you, you are talking out of your arse, a hole in your head, telling a porky pie, a big FAT LIE.

Now a question what was the Linguistic Lineage for todays French and what realtionship does it have to Bourguignon.

For a bonus point when did "French actually come into existance (hint is was several hundred years AFTER your stupid Kunigits of Burgundy or was it Burbons?

You have to give up quoting of bottles of liquor D/2) and for a bonus bonus point when was French first spoken widely in France  

(D/2 the following letters are upside down so you can't read them ...***French only became widely used in France of all places after world war one***)

Check this out bubble boy

Date: 2006/05/23 06:46:11, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 this should be up your alley

Fanatic right wing pundit takes down Paleontologist Ted Daeschler shows Stephen his fishapod

Date: 2006/05/23 07:31:11, Link
Author: k.e
oh goody so you concede on the portuguese = french + Spanish

Thankyou half a Dave

Glad you saw the light

It must be a great relief to you to admit your were wrong

Now why did you delete one of your threads?

What comment caused a tear in your little cosmic bubble D/2?

You can tell me ones listening...I promise I won't tell a soul.

Date: 2006/05/23 07:50:19, Link
Author: k.e
Plate techtonics huh?

ha slam dunk

Pangea D/2 look it up

From Pangea to the Present

You do drive car don't you d/2 ?

How were fossil fuels made D/2

Fossil Fuels - Coal, Oil and Natural Gas

Do you even know what a fossil is D/2


Date: 2006/05/23 07:52:22, Link
Author: k.e
Well Arden I think he conceded he has said it is past because he lost big time.

Isn't that right D/2 ?

Date: 2006/05/23 07:57:08, Link
Author: k.e
Thinking of cuising on the Panama Canal in 50Million years D/2 ?
Better be quick it won't be there then.
The Atlantic Ocean will be much larger 50 million years from now

Date: 2006/05/23 08:17:25, Link
Author: k.e
Not so quick Ved. Oil is trapped in faults under the earths crust and the process happens over millions of years nothing D/2 can say can change that fact. Besides practically all of the fossil fuels source material was on the surface of the earth or the surface of the sea floor long before the dinosaurs arrived. Explain that in what ? The time in between the man made cave paintings around the world between 50 and 20 thousand years ago and now?

nah D/2 is p1ss!ng in the wind.

Date: 2006/05/24 15:48:44, Link
Author: k.e
Atheist wars ????
Yeah sure commissar BarryA

Gott Mit Uns

Note the German Soldier Standing behind Jesus
Storm troopers of Jesus

Date: 2006/05/24 18:04:12, Link
Author: k.e
Septic - with the highly original I'm jealous of Darwin theme...which by his own judgment is again not very useful to this discussion.

And Septic what is that ....ahem discussion?

Since the kind folks here suggested you  go here and actually find an original objection on which you could focus since you claim to be a scientist and all.

A philosophical objection identical to the Deceiving Idolaters perhaps ?

Fine drop the evidence/facts/honest science and concentrate on the relativist ethics of the Idolaters.

I'd like to do the same .....since contra-Theory of Evolution education activists actually encourage a serious hard look at those ethics.

For instance.
Why do claim that your objection to the ToE does not need positive confirmable evidence?
Why is your claim not merely a semantic juxtaposition of words with emphasis on an emotional appeal to ego?
Why do your ethical standards not include arguing from ignorance as an unethical presupposition?
Why do religious ID supporters behave unethically and how are they any different to your behavior here?

Yes Septic lets not update our knowledge on a subject where you blatantly disregard the parts you don't like and just attack it on feeble grounds without any properly considered honest evidence. Why would that be? Everyone who has tried has failed? Doesn't leave much *except* an attack from ignorance does it Septic?

I agree with you 100%

Septic unconsciously projects that he is again not very useful to this discussion.


Oh...and by the way Septic thank you for reading the above with a righteous up curled lip I'm sure it hasn't had the slightest effect on your dishonesty, I seriously doubt that you have any idea what that is. One thing I DO KNOW is that to call oneself a scientist requires more honesty than you have shown so far.

Date: 2006/05/24 18:13:04, Link
Author: k.e
Well that explains to me WHY the DI still exists.
Rock solid stupidity

Date: 2006/05/24 18:41:18, Link
Author: k.e
Thank you Steve S
I'll go slower.

Mr I'm a biochemist brings up the hoary old creationist line that because Darwin did not include enough god talk in his Theory and lost his theistic beliefs as though the world has not moved on.
Hello it's 2006.

Then a couple of professed believers long dead are referenced His Holinesses Einstein and Mendel are mentioned ....although they wouldn't have been if they had said they were agnostics or heaven forbid atheists.

Now come on Mr “I'm not buying the ToE” mention something relevant to this century. Darwin didn't read Mendel who the F### cares?

Then ALL other intervening evolutionary scientists are dismissed because they can't say god and not RM+NS EXPLAINS why we got here.

Which leaves Mr I'm a scientist with nothing more than meaningless creationist philosophical talking points.

Date: 2006/05/24 19:15:42, Link
Author: k.e
BWE u devil
That would be the unified pseudo theory of ID, no?
Man that almost out does Demski's effort except its clearer, not enough obscurantism tho, so no future book sales, pity.

You could pitch yourself as the 'Real Newton of Information Science' vs his 'Kevin Federline of Information Science'

Date: 2006/05/24 19:43:02, Link
Author: k.e
Huxley??? Oh brother. Another dead white atheist.
Why not just mention the names of all the other evil conspiritors while you are at it.
Go on I know you're dying to.

And very long odds?
A sort of reverse Gamblers Fallacy ...look it up.
Mr. not skeptical but credulous you're on the wrong blog

Absolute prof of Creation/intelegent design

Did god create time? If so.... why didn't he make it last longer....

And somewhere on this page is Joseph Campbell's explanation why early writers didn't credit God with creating water

Interview with author of -Historical Atlas Of World Mythology

Date: 2006/05/24 19:53:39, Link
Author: k.e
A definite improvement. 8/10 go to the top of the class.
Now all you need is chutzpah, and an interview with the DI ..... I can just smell that book deal.'ll need a disguise....I suggest a chick Groucho nose,mustache,glasses outfit and a sleazy grin.

Date: 2006/05/24 20:47:52, Link
Author: k.e
BWE did he mention plate techtonics ?
Bah no way..... that 100% proves Genisis wrong Dave can't even fill his car up without secretly saying "thankyou god for lying about Genisis" because he knows that the evil oil was buried by sediment before dinosaurs even existed conspiracy will get to him.

Date: 2006/05/25 00:24:26, Link
Author: k.e
....correction jeannot

....there's a problem with the current theory of IMMACULATE conception  :p

and for that matter rising from the dead, walking on water, water into wine perhaps that is what skeptic is skeptical about.....nah.... couldn't possibly ...could he?

Date: 2006/05/25 02:16:54, Link
Author: k.e
Wow an IDolator calling on Freud ..oh the irony..on the superegoManiac's blog. They have no idea that Freud took apart their little unconcious fantasies well unconcious fantasies.
Then Jung ..hehehehehhehe..the man who explained the symbology of ALL religion as Myth.

and dSS

blah blah self-replicating nanometer scale factory controlled by digital program code blah blah

uh yeah......Dues ex Machina ...the Deity steps out from behind the curtain and intervenes directly in events he a lapsed Catholic?

Date: 2006/05/25 05:30:53, Link
Author: k.e
Yes STJ (7th Viscount, Baron V.Fish) writing too quickly as usual.
Note: Myth not in the colloquial sense of an untruth. But as a story explaining some deeper human truth.
I should have said that the source of public  Myth was the collective unconscious expressed as retold dreams according to Jung.
Job wresting *all night* with "God", even waking up with bruises all over him, is the perfect example it's right there in the text as plain as day.... er except it wasn't day.... so Job didn't actually see god,. Today you would say  he just slept on the problem, he had and came up with an answer suitable for the collective unconscious of his tribe.
Joyce's Finnegans Wake is *all dream* told in the language of dream the -subconscious revealed- over just one night.
Jung off the deep end?...well I agree ...probably dealt with too many people with psychosis I find his stuff unreadable for more than a short time.
Groff with his LSD influenced patient documentaries are incredibly revealing and it is amazing the same motifs come up over and over in Myth.

Date: 2006/05/25 05:34:33, Link
Author: k.e
Dang should have re-reread.

Date: 2006/05/25 07:11:15, Link
Author: k.e
incorygible you're incorrigibly optimistic a fatal flaw when dealing with the blackhole of intelligence THE D/2.

Something like the V2 the D/2 is launched vertically at birth and kept in a state of sublime ignorance on a ballistic trajectory that reaches a region of subspace where a partial vacuum boils off reason for a period of several years. Cosmic radiation sterilizes the neurons responsible for creative thought and once the device returns to the earths surface a zombie chip is quickly inserted as soon as the device opens its mouth. These devices perform such a realistic rendition of a human that normal 'earthlings' fail to recognize the automaton however the loud whirring of a preprogrammed mechanical brain are easily recognized when the correct buttons are pushed. When that happens the re-entrant script is started and a predictable  stream of evangelizing commences, the script is unmodifiable and no new information can be inserted into the script except by pastors with the correct key..unless they are Pastors which case go back to line 0.

Date: 2006/05/25 08:08:42, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 u unit

look up argumentum ad nauseum

It is a form of circular reasoning used by intellectually dishonest people such as yourself.

Ad nauseam is a Latin term used to describe something that has been continuing "to the point of nausea." For example "This topic has been discussed ad nauseam": it has been discussed extensively and everyone has tired of it. It is a form of proof by assertion.

Argumentum ad nauseam or argument from repetition or Argumentum ad infinitum is the false proof of a statement by (prolonged) repetition, possibly by different people. This logical fallacy is commonly used as a form of rhetoric by politicians, and it is one of the mechanisms of reinforcing urban legends. In its extreme form, it can also be a form of brainwashing. In common usage the statement "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth" is often used to allude to the same concept, which self referentially has been attributed diversely to Lenin, Goebbels, Hitler and Stalin among others, when little evidence can be found to support most of these historical figures having said this.

Modern politics is fraught with examples of argumentum ad nauseam, and wide acceptance of many policies and perspectives is driven in part by the endless repetition of slogans. The exercise of argumentum ad nauseam can be widely observed in the distribution of "talking points," which are collections of short phrases that are issued to members of modern political parties for recitation to achieve maximum message repetition.

see also the Chewbacca Defense

Date: 2006/05/25 20:58:43, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah I get Great Apes Shtick he makes an asinine but on the surface reasonable assertion with the subtext he is against a well educated but easily dismissed authority on no other  grounds than illogical argument supported by childish assumptions. Telling a doctor effectively to go *eff* himself with a tire iron behind his back has them all eating out of his hand. He is careful not to directly question dSS's or WAD's “greatness” . He harmonizes with their M.O. i.e. logically self serving but plainly autistic and no hint of empathy.. consistent with Narcissistic Personality Disorder,  in other words a self destructive comment, “they get it”. The one thing dSS is incapable of understanding on reflection, because it is his own behavior to a tee.

Date: 2006/05/26 03:36:49, Link
Author: k.e
Faid you're an an incredibly patient pathologist  for a deranged GOP.
Bon chance.

Date: 2006/05/26 04:19:42, Link
Author: k.e
Can you google the yocto to the yotto
of the feeble minded paedomorph
on the springly dawn of doom
for the idiots of Demski's fly.
Poor downers try to make ID fly
can only suck the soup near DI out-take
'till all else resembles the bottom of an empty winglass.
On a liter note. The bottom of a liter boat.

Date: 2006/05/26 05:08:13, Link
Author: k.e
Seriouly septic u have a probem.
By all means look at the evidence(giggle)
but when u come out with "The question that still haunts me " when ALL the evidence is in allows me to invoke the "so u had creationist parents, how does that make u feel?" question.

Well let me tell u ALL parents LIE about something---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--GET OVER IT&&&&&&.

Date: 2006/05/26 06:07:03, Link
Author: k.e
Anyone old enough to remember these?

Date: 2006/05/27 05:40:18, Link
Author: k.e
deadman_932 said:

With AFDave, the delusion seems real. I'd be willing to bet a goodly sum that he views himself as a "knight of jesus" jousting with the heathens..all to compensate for whatever lack of self-esteem drives him (personally, I think it's his father's doing).

Mommies hairy helper. Yes AFDave never had a chance it was all over for him by about 7 years old. The best that can be said for him is that he is a functioning delusional with a pathological desire to martyr himself for some godhead personality cult (The son of Nortius Maximus) being really brave and taking one a Blog.....Heroic.
Crucifixion?  Good.  Out of the door.  Line on the left.  One cross each.  Next.  

As Freud said it protects their minds from reality and his mothers fear of death


Paley, on the other hand, reminds me of the immature 30-year-old that calls up talk radio stations to boost his ego. He does a drive-by announcement of a ridiculous geocentric model like the weird kid in class basically begging: "Look at meeeeee!!"  

Even GoP doesn't believe that ...he just thinks that any idiotic idea can be won in debate..masdebate is his case with added wrist action.

Date: 2006/05/27 06:10:01, Link
Author: k.e
Forget it jeannot there are no questions D/2 can parse.
He is beyond help.
Argumentum ad nausium is his stock in trade, cheaper by the infinity.
Note how he trys to set the adgenda he will NEVER be educated.
Sickening I know, a crime against humanity?

Date: 2006/05/27 09:20:25, Link
Author: k.e
Could I get an irony meter that I can turn up to 11.(Like the Spinal Tap boys with their guitar amps)

Date: 2006/05/27 09:24:59, Link
Author: k.e
Substance? .....abuse

(3) Universal Moral Code--C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity

yeah and the Lard said "Thou shalt not disobey the Law of Gravity" etc etc etc

Date: 2006/05/28 02:04:09, Link
Author: k.e
Oh I don't know corkscrew, The Fundies jeremiad claims that HE will be returning any minute now to claim back royalties and boy is someone going to pay!

Date: 2006/05/28 02:50:51, Link
Author: k.e
Hey D/2 .....geez you still digging that hole?
What did JC say about throwing pearls to swine?
Or are you not a Christian?

There was a REASON he said that you know why?

BTW when DO YOU expect the Lord to show up?
A rough estimate would be fine.
You know some would say that your version of H3LL, waiting for goddot (or the inevitable democratic president), is no different where you are now.

A boy was watching his father, a pastor, write a sermon. How do you know what to say?" he asked.

"Why, God tells me."

"Oh, then why do you keep crossing things out?"

This is old but its interesting that the Preacher washes his kids mouth with soap if they step out of line, I wonder if D/2 has a similar regime?


Date: 2006/05/28 03:06:22, Link
Author: k.e
Just as a matter of interest D/2 why are you rabbiting on about 'millions of years'.

You have stated that the Bible is inerrant and that time only began 6000 years ago so why do creationsts talk about mys when they didn't exist? Or do you conceed creationists don't agee that time began 6000 years ago?

I'm begining to think you don't believe creationism, does your family know about this?

Date: 2006/05/28 03:10:04, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 do you apply the term  "non-Christian" to refer to mainline and liberal Christian groups as well as Muslims, Hindus, followers of Aboriginal and Neo-Pagan religions etc ?
If so why?

Date: 2006/05/28 03:15:22, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 what Christian denominations do you regard as having strayed from the teachings of Jesus and of the Bible.?

Date: 2006/05/28 03:57:52, Link
Author: k.e
That does it, he's starting to talk about himself in the 3rd person.

Afdave says"Afdave considered becoming an adult once but having been infantalised by his domineering Fundie mother since a child grew scared."

D/2 there are some interesting psychology papers discussing the pathology of children who talk about themselves in the third person why don't you have a google?

Date: 2006/05/28 04:04:00, Link
Author: k.e
10,000 years or 6,000 years ? make your frigging mind up D/2.
And an abrahamic deity taught Adam to write did he?

That's nice where are the school books? You HAVE the school books RIGHT?

As a child or an adult, what language?

Who taught Adam to speak?

Where was Adam's mother while all this was going on?

Date: 2006/05/28 04:34:44, Link
Author: k.e
Guys you are wasting you're time if you even think that D/2 will address any of your comments.

He is here to preach nothing else.

This is a litle practice pulpit for him.

The best thing to do is agree on one question and dig in until he says uncle (which he won't, he'll just run away like a 2 year old). In any case the more opertunity you give him to dodge the longer he will stay.

So how about it? One question each, the simpler the better.

When I say simple I mean the sort of thing you would say to a child.

That is what we are dealing with here. D/2 IS A CHILD he is PYSICALLY UNABLE to act in a cognitive adult fashion on these issues.

D/2 can only progress by ...don't laugh...being born again.

Date: 2006/05/28 04:46:06, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 I suppose this is the sort of inerrancy you agree with

16 Biblical ways to aquire a wife

Find an attractive prisoner of war, bring her home, shave her head, trim her nails, and give her new clothes. Then she's yours. -- Deuterononmy (Deuteronomy 21:11-13)

Find a prostitute and marry her. -- Hosea (Hosea 1:1-3)

Find a man with seven daughters, and impress him by watering his flock. -- Moses (Exodus 2:16-21)

Purchase a piece of property, and get a woman as part of the deal. -- Boaz (Ruth 4:5-10)

Go to a party and hide. When the women come out to dance, grab one and carry her off to be your wife. -- Benjaminites (Judges 21:19-25)

Have God create a wife for you while you sleep. Note: this will cost you a rib. -- Adam (Genesis 2:19-24)

Agree to work seven years in exchange for a woman's hand in marriage. Get tricked into marrying the wrong woman. Then work another seven years for the woman you wanted to marry in the first place. That's right. Fourteen years of toil for a woman. -- Jacob (Genesis 29:15-30)

Cut off 200 foreskins off of your future father-in-law's enemies and get his daughter for a wife. -- David (1Samuel 18:27)

Even if no one is out there, just wander around a bit and you'll definitely find someone. (It's all relative of course.) -- Cain (Genesis 4:16-17)

Become the emperor of a huge nation and hold a beauty contest. -- Xerxes or Ahasuerus (Esther 2:3-4)

When you see someone you like, go home and tell your parents, "I have seen a ...woman; now get her for me." If your parents question your decision, simply say, "Get her for me. She's the one for me." -- Samson (Judges 14:1-3)

Kill any husband and take HIS wife. (Prepare to lose four sons though). -- David (2 Samuel 11)

Wait for your brother to die. Take his widow. (It's not just a good idea, it's the law). -- Onan and Boaz (Deuteronomy or Leviticus, example in Ruth)

Don't be so picky. Make up for quality with quantity. -- Solomon (1 Kings 11:1-3)

A wife?...NOT!!! -- Paul (1Corinthians 7:32-35)

Become sinless, and die in atonement for others, and you can marry a whole bunch of people. -- Jesus (Revelation 15?)

Date: 2006/05/28 05:23:12, Link
Author: k.e
skeptic when you only have a hammer the whole world looks like a nail.
It would seem to me that trying to reduce a living organism down to component chemicals without due consideration for structure, dynamics, and particulary reproduction will get you nowhere.

Date: 2006/05/28 06:39:13, Link
Author: k.e
Skeptic throws hands in air , ducks run off with them.

Male Med student to girl friend :
"Today I learned that love is just a bunch of hormones running around in my head"
Girlfriend :
"See I told you it was real"

Skeptic a house is not a hammer nor is it created from or by a hammer or even wood and nails, ancients did quite well without, it may contain those things but a house is an entity in itself. Equally comparing an autonomous living creature and the reproductive process with inanimate objects lacks sophistication.
There is a time line with every living creature that can be observed forward  and backward (as recorded history) in the wild, in any case our observations are  ALL history, time does not exist except as a concept, however existence itself JUST IS right now in THIS moment, by definition .
For Evolution to be useful it must provide some value, that value is; that new discoveries can be categorized without tearing up the already existing explanatory template and assists in identifying future areas of investigation, just like assembling a jigsaw puzzle.
Evolution as it is understood is like a huge jigsaw puzzle with a great many parts in place and a great many more from widely varying  scientific disciplines  waiting to be fitted.
The rules so far proposed work fine. The picture (proof that the rules work) at this stage is quite clear and is as easily recognizable  as your mother or Marylin Monroe (if it was say a half completed picture of MM) . In other words we don't need to assemble the whole thing to see the obvious.
None of the parts have copyright by god on the back, sorry.
Don't forget and use of energy in other words. Wouldn't want you to starve :)

The Evolutionary Hammer is the gene, they actually do the work and they 'know what to do', without them life would not be built.

Every house and living creature has a history even if it can't be all found, no gods needed.

When I said if you only have one skill set and one tool to deconstruct a living entity I meant that it does not leave much room for actual thinking and creating reality with thought, which like it or not, is how your world view is created.

If you are complaining that not enough is known about chemical interactions in living organisms then why not do the same with non living entities, it could keep you employed for years.

Date: 2006/05/28 06:49:04, Link
Author: k.e
Well Dave I think we can say you really F###KED THAT UP.

Now tell us all about how mommy wouldn't let you play with the native girls in Brazil or wherever.

Date: 2006/05/28 07:20:41, Link
Author: k.e
Arden said

AFD's cheesy incredulity -- for which there is really no REASON at all

Well actually there is, his brain is wired to do that.
His neurons are wired by his upbringing and are irretrievably fixed in pattern that provides a reality he is incapable of changing. Every stimulus that questions that reality causes him to scour creationist anti-science websites for 'truthiness'  he feels it in his gut. You know there are more nerve endings in your gut.......(the Colbert mandate)

Date: 2006/05/28 07:36:52, Link
Author: k.e

Date: 2006/05/30 00:56:46, Link
Author: k.e
Has a nice ring about it like ekky thump :)

Date: 2006/05/30 03:08:39, Link
Author: k.e
So half a Dave you admit you are wrong on the age of the earth (by ommision).


You know when I suggested that some swarthy middle eastern guy with a big nose and holes in his hands and feet said
"Do not cast pearls before swine" as an instruction to not waste time with stupid people, he was D/2, refering to the likes of you.

Date: 2006/05/30 16:20:53, Link
Author: k.e
Put it this way skeptic,


You use the same Modus Operandi in Bio-chem. as you do in areas outside your self proclaimed discipline as demonstrated by the wildly off target remarks you have made, which you seem to blithely assume are not totally transparent to everyone.
(Do other bio-chemists call you a bio-chemist, have you published peer reviewed papers, do you believe in astrology)


You have no business calling yourself a 'scientist'.

Translated for you


This pattern has continued; that anyone who is a biochemist SCIENTIST could make the absurd and semantically meaningless remarks about the fundamentals of chemistry SCIENCE.

Missing fossils?

Pseudoscience appeals to the truth-criteria of scientific
methodology while simultaneously denying their validity.

Wagons in a circle ?.....pffft

Pseudoscience appeals to false authority, to emotion,
sentiment, or distrust of established fact.

Pseudoscience displays an indifference to facts.

Pseudoscience is indifferent to criteria of valid evidence

Pseudoscience relies heavily on subjective validation

Pseudoscience deliberately creates mystery where none
exists, by omitting crucial information and important details.

Pseudoscience argues from ignorance, an elementary fallacy.

More here:

The beauty of the creationist is that given long enough they manage to make clear their agenda whether they are aware of it or not, including faux skepticism and a seemingly holier than thou concern for an ad hominem free debate, when in actuality their whole debating tactic IS ad hominem i.e. against validated human knowledge collectively

Date: 2006/05/30 17:36:34, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah Rilke I was going to perform the trivial task of analyzing sckeptic's Cynic's past nonsense for creationist boiler plate..... his approach denies the possibility of knowledge. I knew there was a bunch of it but as you have pointed out ...perhaps it accounts for all of his arguement.

From:The 10 Commandments of Helping Students Distinguish Science from Pseudoscience in Psychology


Second Commandment
Thou shalt distinguish skepticism from cynicism. One danger of teaching students to distinguish science from pseudoscience is that we can inadvertently produce students who are reflexively dismissive of any claim that appears implausible. Skepticism, which is the proper mental set of the scientist, implies two seemingly contradictory attitudes (Sagan, 1995): an openness to claims combined with a willingness to subject these claims to incisive scrutiny. As space engineer James Oberg (see Sagan, 1995) reminded us, we must keep our minds open but not so open that our brains fall out. In contrast, cynicism implies close-mindedness. I recall being chastised by a prominent skeptic for encouraging researchers to keep an open mind regarding the efficacy of a novel psychotherapy whose rationale struck him as farfetched. However, if we foreclose the possibility that our preexisting beliefs are erroneous, we are behaving unscientifically. Skepticism entails a willingness to entertain novel claims; cynicism does not.

Third Commandment
Thou shalt distinguish methodological skepticism from philosophical skepticism. When encouraging students to think critically, we must distinguish between two forms of skepticism: (1) an approach that subjects all knowledge claims to scrutiny with the goal of sorting out true from false claims, namely methodological (scientific) skepticism, and (2) an approach that denies the possibility of knowledge, namely philosophical skepticism. When explaining to students that scientific knowledge is inherently tentative and open to revision, some students may mistakenly conclude that genuine knowledge is impossible. This view, which is popular in certain postmodernist circles, neglects to distinguish knowledge claims that are more certain from those that are less certain. Although absolute certainly is probably unattainable in science, some scientific claims, such as Darwin's theory of natural selection, have been extremely well corroborated, whereas others, such as the theory underpinning astrological horoscopes, have been convincingly refuted. Still others, such as cognitive dissonance theory, are scientifically controversial. Hence, there is a continuum of confidence in scientific claims; some have acquired virtual factual status whereas others have been resoundingly falsified. The fact that methodological skepticism does not yield completely certain answers to scientific questions?and that such answers could in principle be overturned by new evidence?does not imply that knowledge is impossible, only that this knowledge is provisional. Nor does it imply that the answers generated by controlled scientific investigation are no better than other answers, such as those generated by intuition (see Myers, 2002).

Date: 2006/05/31 04:34:47, Link
Author: k.e
Hey that's an insult to Nus Butters,,,,er But Nussers,,,er Tus Bettus,,Dang,,,where did I put my ticket. The end is nigh and I want my jeBus. dang D/2 you have made me a creo Bus nutter.

Actually that probably explains why those guys went nuts in the first place.

Ah  Is layin on de hands 4dlord ...more Soma D/2 and then the ecstasy rapture with extra Cletus Delroy frothing in the aisles.

Date: 2006/06/01 02:06:30, Link
Author: k.e
STJ your new totem could do with a little ancient mythology.

The Arnhem Land natives have a mythology surrrounding sharks and rays that integrates their survival needs with their enviroment.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Culture and Sharks and Rays in Australia

What amuses me is that xianity regards 2 legged sheep as food

Date: 2006/06/01 02:07:33, Link
Author: k.e
STJ your new totem could do with a little ancient mythology.

The Arnhem Land natives have a mythology surrrounding sharks and rays that integrates their survival needs with their enviroment.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Culture and Sharks and Rays in Australia

What amuses me is that xianity regards 2 legged sheep as food

Date: 2006/06/01 02:10:54, Link
Author: k.e
STJ your new totem could do with a little ancient mythology.

The Arnhem Land natives have a mythology surrrounding sharks and rays that integrates their survival needs with their enviroment.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Culture and Sharks and Rays in Australia

What amuses me is that xianity regards 2 legged sheep as food

Date: 2006/06/01 02:17:03, Link
Author: k.e
STJ your new totem could do with a little ancient mythology.

The Arnhem Land natives have a mythology surrrounding sharks and rays that integrates their survival needs with their enviroment.

Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Culture and Sharks and Rays in Australia

What amuses me is that xianity regards 2 legged sheep as food

Date: 2006/06/01 02:45:20, Link
Author: k.e
Ah well GCT unCommon Deficiency are redefining arrogance

Date: 2006/06/01 02:46:59, Link
Author: k.e
oops ...reconfigure ie

Date: 2006/06/01 04:18:15, Link
Author: k.e
Ah...GCT he may make them look intelligent!!!!!!

Date: 2006/06/01 06:49:28, Link
Author: k.e
hahahahahah Tango Juliet

He's been sky pixie dorked!

I wonder if there's an opera in this ?

oh it's already been done Hair!!! hehehehe

Date: 2006/06/01 07:04:28, Link
Author: k.e
half a Dave is an amateur theologian and as such has only to abide by the ethics and morals of the amateur theologians club (Apologies to PBVXI), realtors and PR wonks, except he can collect money with no other promise than to relieve the givers guilt, whereas the others can't (legally).

now THAT requires one #### of a thick skin!

So D/2 do you pay or do you collect?

(Mammon stupid, we already know you collect foreskins)

Date: 2006/06/02 03:22:34, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Hardvark...... hehehehe

Nice bit of ID tickling there ......give me a Borat "high five (followed by a huge Kazakhstanian mustachiod cheesy grin).

How about coming up with a 10 point plan on how to make them so paranoid they spend the rest of their lives examining every post for signs it may be 'from the enemy'.

Its time we got up to some serious skulduggery.

We could forewarn them that we are planning a raid and tell them we have captured one of their operatives(AF Dave) and keep septic (secret code floating turd) up our sleeves...uuugh. Anyway, now that we have broken their secret code ....god=Linus' blanket...we can play them like a wonky  church organ. Their enigma code is now in the public domain and a simple word mangler wil fly right under their seti/id radar. An EF (explainitory formator) would CSI (compose stupidity indicators) to undo their IC  (itchy carbuncles) thus giving a mind rash similar to Darwian Denial.

We could call it Capture and Skin the Foreskinners.

Date: 2006/06/02 03:31:11, Link
Author: k.e
Lou So
if "The-Almighty-Christian-God-Who-Commits-Genocide-When-Nobody-Plays-With-Him"

Whoa neddy ...tell that to Osama and the Dave Turds.

I DID see PBXVI do that little number at camp fun fun fun.... Auschwich.
I can only say if one calls to a wailing wall for an answer, one can only get back an echo. Thats fine....... blame the echo......

Date: 2006/06/02 05:55:44, Link
Author: k.e
Speaking of Salva-Dorian Gray mutations; Is it possible, for that in a lifetime ,they never age and only their painted/projected Satanic image decrepits?

Date: 2006/06/04 03:27:38, Link
Author: k.e


Perfect occupation for a fundy.

Translation? -- "I'm not going to get MY hands dirty defending freedom .. no, no ... I'm not that stupid and unthinking ... let the 'crazies' do that."  Well ... you're welcome anyway.

Screw it half a Dave,
why don't you sign up and go fly for Haliblitzkreig?
Gott mit uns;
Just tell them you are an unrepentant liar (if they don't believe you just get them to check your website)...just like Cheney, Rove, Bush, Rumsfeld, Blair, Hitchenens (oops he's a Trotsky-ist...but hey whatever), Saddam, The Iraqi Information Minister (now ex)....they will take you back with open arms, all you have to do is fly in Oil Rigs and Baksheesh and take out the bodies.
Cap that with a little Allah Akbar every time you take off and Inshallah the holy warriers of Islam won't blow your xtian ass to kingdom come.
Just think you could take revenge on the moors who rubbed excrement on the cross at Lisbon in 1147.
Come on D/2 show us what your are made of ..weasel or half a weasel.

Date: 2006/06/04 04:47:23, Link
Author: k.e
Don't worry Faid. (have faith.... hehehehe)
WAD has made EVERY stupid creationist mistake going.
He's just smart enough never to say it on a witness stand....and never will.
H3LL will freeze over before he is called to account.

Sorry god but even you have your limitations....oh by the way why DID you abandon the Jews at Auschwitz? Don't bother sending a 3rd coming no-one believes that sh#t anymore. Not even AFDAVE ..(he's crazy ...but you knew that already)

Date: 2006/06/04 19:37:04, Link
Author: k.e
Well septic it seems you HAVE bet your life on it AND what a
Yes, a total waste, septic as you have probably worked out by now, being an ignorance promoting oxygen thief only requires you to do nothing other than come up with more nonsense, ad nausium.
You lost Dover remember, bend over and enjoy it.
Sweet dreams.

Date: 2006/06/04 20:21:27, Link
Author: k.e

Careful with those intelligent looking graphs, dSS will claim metal working started in Nigeria and the xtian era started in NW know how insanely stupid they are.

I mean get them to point out on a map where metal working, agriculture or Zoroastrianism (a major influence on Judaism) started.( or Iraq for that matter)

Oh and fossils dSS? how long does it take to fossilize a dead animal or human?
Even if they survive scavenging and weathering it is almost a miracle we have as many as we do, you have seen what happens to dead animals on an African savanna have you not?

In the time scale from the first cave art we have the actual (non-fossilized) bones from burial sites complete with jewelry, weapons, pottery, not to mention camp fire remains, middens (trash heaps) etc way before your DI-Creationist bosses even think the earth came into existence.

So it must make you wonder dSS why they even bother to engage you in a debate if they only believe the world is 5000 or 6000 years old ....they don't need you.

Date: 2006/06/05 04:52:30, Link
Author: k.e
Oh those onion guys.... where DO they get their inspiration?

House boat?
The good ship dSS?
Where the cabin boy shoved glass up his #ss to circumcise the skipper.

Gott mit uns, Scheiße und Hölle
Sieg hail Fuhrer Dembski !!!!!


Self Published paper? ooooh the was below the belt.




Date: 2006/06/05 05:32:58, Link
Author: k.e
Well,well,well is dSS getting bored with the 1/2 wits at Undressed Dipsh*ts?

Forget about humor what about philosophy? From the other side of the pond no less.

"And what if we've picked the wrong religion? Every week we're just making God madder and madder?"

Date: 2006/06/05 06:49:59, Link
Author: k.e
Nice quote Faid!

Although I think Ghost of Paley would prefer real christian men who have no knowledge to come through his hands

Famous Homosexuals

Here's one with some Popes Paley could get a habit

Date: 2006/06/05 07:23:27, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah Steve S
Denial never rains but floods.
Holocaust,Global Warming,Aids,Evolution,Homosexuality,Drugs,Oil drought.
One word
conservative religion/politics
Dang 3 words.

Well there is an easy fix.
Don't tell anyone but Tony Snow the new white house flak catcher
will be announcing a one size fits all fundamental shift in WH policy.

Dateline Washington
Haliburton HQ WH Press Room

The Big Easy today is to be renamed 'Venice of the West' as part of the Bush plan to 'Evolve' with 'Climate Change'(Thankyou Orwell). Homosexuals (a Laura Bush protected species) will be given a new underwater suburb named 'Atlantis' near the mouth of the Mississippi river where Aids will be 'cleansed' just by walking in the streets. New settlers will be encouraged to migrate under the only planned free needle exchange available in the US. The saved costs on burials will have the added advantage of creating a huge biomass that over a period of 135 million years  will add to the oil reserves in the Gulf (if it is still there)

Date: 2006/06/05 18:43:06, Link
Author: k.e
Lets hold a mirror up to Tina's projection

Tinabrewer leaves  me gasping ...
Jerry: “Science Xtian Fundamentalism gets corrupt when it gets political.”

This is only the latest phase of why science Xtian Fundamentalism is corrupt.

Its root corruption is much deeper; science Xtian Fundamentalism is the work of the intellect dishonest liars with an emotional appeal to authority .
It seeks to RE-categorize and explain material reality.

The real “leader”Tina's Fundy 'Father' (Dear Leader) in human religious life should always be   the spirit Tina's own conscience, which seeks communion with the Creative Will of God Tina's own Xtian Fundamentalism TM.

Science Xtian Fundamentalism as it is currently practiced desires the overthrow of this natural hierarchy  The American Constitution, replacing wisdom and truth with (imaginary) data and (non)facts.

The whole  lot of them rationalize away their dishonesty with convoluted theology and turn vice into virtue.

Date: 2006/06/06 04:13:49, Link
Author: k.e
I know I have been through this before but "Don Quixote" by Cervantes the "Heart of Darkness" by Conrad and "Lolita" by Nabokov talk of mans lust for pagan material Gods/goods (to those men there is no difference), a crushing desire to possess, which causes suffering for the protagonist and those around them.

Those writers were not just writing about an abstract idea, their inspiration came from their own experiences with living breathing people they met. Their vast life experiences when informed by the great stories/myths of previous generations coupled with a cold hard eye and  their own considerable artistic talents allowed them to relate universal themes through their stories. Part of that talent is to overcome the barrier of language as dogma and allow the reader to experience the drama from within the story. In a post literate world TV and Movies take that role and the big stories are replaced with soap advertisments, it would seem religion is headed that way as well.

Those universal themes go right back to pre-biblical times the Sumerian/Egyptian/Greek/Indian-Bhagavida
tales are not actual history, they are the normally hidden unconscious dreams,fears and desires of mankind expressed as stories and the hardware that caused those stories has not changed since those times.

If you were magically transported back to ancient India with a babelfish  
translator and told those ancients about a group of people thousands of years in the future who had an idea for a god that fiddled with nature but couldn't say how or that none of them could prove  existed and when each of them are asked could only provide differing stories, I'm pretty sure your ancient listener could quote a similar story(no prizes for guessing which one)

It always impresses me when the likes of Salvador Cordova pop up and seem to play out one of the characters in those stories mentioned above some things never change.

Salvador the Sancho Panza of the ID movement has the the job as the harlequin Russian fool(who seems to survive in the heart of the ID movement by not knowing what’s going on around him) on Kurtz-ski's quest for ivory (the pagan God that is so worshiped by Dembski and other whites) in the dark heart of Africa/mankind (take your pick).

My guess is that neither the Russians nor NASA are in any danger of hiring a fool for an engineer on any space station any time soon.

Date: 2006/06/06 17:29:27, Link
Author: k.e
Skeptic said:
The conceptual problems posed by wave-particle duality are huge.

DUDE do you even know what a conceptual model IS?

EM theory is one of the most perfectly investigated and EXPLAINED fundamentals of Physics.

I mean have you ever looked at the back of your hand, I mean REALLY LOOKED?

You remind me of those less blessed classmates who JUST DIDN'T GET IT.

Hint ......what is a CONCEPT?

Hey Skeptic pray for more brain power....uh right..... that didn't work already.

....OK try this ...just accept some things are beyond your ability..and make the most of that 'rapture'..whistle while you work.

Date: 2006/06/06 17:37:54, Link
Author: k.e
More like he(TD) would shoot someone who rejected him when he hit on them.

....American Beauty.

I'll bet he does NOT fantasize about Lesbians.

Frikken Fag.

Date: 2006/06/06 19:00:44, Link
Author: k.e
Itchy ..I was going to mention that too obvious D/2 trap "I'll keep denying until tomorrow thing" ....when skeptic's hope against experience turns his existential daydream into a nightmare.

Skeptic you said..

Now that sounds nice and the math works but what does that really mean?  Thats where the conceptual problems come in...

Just what problem do you have with your conception ....again?..uh just can't conceive it.
Do you need faith your parents mated?

And how did we get here from denying common descent?...oh right....a concept requires faith according to you.

Bad news skeptic a concept requires a conceptual model to be created in ones mind that survives internal logical constraints AND the ability of that mind  to determine what is true and what is false.

You have not yet developed that ability.


A Faith Belief is not a conceptual model.

Date: 2006/06/07 01:38:26, Link
Author: k.e
Oh fo' christ's sake TD just bend over Dover and take it like a man.

Date: 2006/06/07 01:51:08, Link
Author: k.e
Whese DO these idiots come from.
Talk about a little knowlwdge being dangerous.
Sine wave's being made up from WHAT THE FRICK.

Talk about a round peg in a square hole.

L00k stupid at the post above and get a grip.

Oh right .....'sine' means without in Latin. One could ask without WHAT.. let me hazard a guess. WITHOUT the slightest ability to assemble an IKEA sofa' as the limitess horizon. Man I would like to take these guys on a very long food.

Date: 2006/06/07 02:32:17, Link
Author: k.e
Asumes Berlinki's 3rd peon Hat.
To the ATBC Board  I beg you to cinsoder the pissoblity af o &*^%$##@ spell checker and no I WILL not post it to tyhe cerroct therad.!!.

Date: 2006/06/07 02:45:31, Link
Author: k.e
Thar she blows boys.

Date: 2006/06/07 17:52:48, Link
Author: k.e
RGD said

It must be very depressing to be adored by people that you despise.

Yeah ....after WAD's last little foray into the real world defending his brain dead physics and  admitting as much, he must be wondering now that his hopeless version of an infinite energy machine is all but ridiculed off the planet, what IS he going to do with all those sycophants.

It's no good having a product that is just expensive toilet paper without some stupid ass' to wipe. ...oopps.

Date: 2006/06/07 18:28:44, Link
Author: k.e
Thanks for the reality check Pennybright it certainly stopped me laughing my socks off, from the run of previous posts...good luck.

Clamboy I think I know why TD hates America.

It seems to me he would like to indulge in group sex with a)b)c)d)....z) (not that there is anything wrong with that).......but his religion is against it. Poor Frustrated Fundy.

Date: 2006/06/07 19:33:54, Link
Author: k.e
Hahahaha ....Dupeski......hoist with his own petard

"For 'tis the sport to have the enginer / Hoist with his owne
petar" -- Shakespeare, Hamlet III iv

Oh the pain .....the pain.....
and will be more careful in the future about taking their bait.

erm ......that's actually translates to

...and will be more careful in the future about standing up in public in case my pants fall off. (and publicly indulge in heinous onanism (a little old testament ref. there for you Bill.) wonder he has cleaning problems.

Date: 2006/06/08 00:34:55, Link
Author: k.e
edit+ Faid said ..Um, sure, Charlie. And what you say. end edit

Yeah that must be the scatological designer his god  a turd?

WAD's chest must proudly expand when he breaths in that stuff each morning as he sniffs his blog.

Terrific intellects impassionately discussing the data, mined using the 'ID' scientific method dung magnet which no mater how hard they try only seems to attract flies.

Date: 2006/06/08 03:58:58, Link
Author: k.e
Now here is something that Demski can apply his 'Designer? Mathmatics' to.

The 3.4-billion-year-old rocks show the dappled hallmarks of ancient life.

Date: 2006/06/08 05:28:01, Link
Author: k.e
Arden you forgot to point out 1/2 a Dave does not seem to actually know any language except English which of course allows him to make expert comments....

If half a Dave had studied say Latin and French or Spanish or even Portuguese he would not have made such a stupid assertion in the first place.
All those languages share approx. over 70% IIRC of their words from the root Latin words; note those younger words in each language are not identical. Just because he has heard a couple of people speaking the two languages he thinks...oh bugger it..

AFDave why ARE you so #### STUPID?

Any stupid answer will do.

Oh and why are you just so #### WRONG every time you post.

AFDave xtianity is making you stupid...why? cannot tell a lie from the truth.

Date: 2006/06/08 05:43:53, Link
Author: k.e
That's easy carlsonjok

AFDaves old testament god is indifferent to evidence for his existence and requires extreme brainwashing before it's adherents stop asking the obvious question...why do we fail every time we try to convince sane people to believe in 'him'.

Date: 2006/06/08 05:56:29, Link
Author: k.e
Well .....since self publication to avoid peer review is a rolled gold hallmark of pseudo-science as far as I'm concerned he gave up the right to any moral claim concerning the validity of his pontifications long ago.

He can do what he likes with his 'material' there is no going back...and he d@mn well knows it.

Now if he only published peer reviewed papers several of his current 'problems' would never have surfaced.
1. His erroneous writing would have never seen the light of day.
2. Quote mining himself would have....oh wait go back to 1.

Date: 2006/06/08 07:11:20, Link
Author: k.e
Total BS half a Dave

Spanish and French were not spoken in any of those countries around CE 1100
Various Dialects of Galician Occitan and Catalan were spoken, plus many others, around the area now called Portugal.

Just as you would not be able to understand Middle English from the Peterborough Chronicle Second continuation (1132–1154)

"ævric rice man his castles maked and agenes him heolden; and fylden the land ful of castles. Hi suencten suythe the uurecce men of the land mid castelweorces; tha the castles uuaren maked, tha fylden hi mid deovles and yvele men. Tha namen hi tha men the hi wendan that any god hefden, bathe be nihtes and be dæies, carlmen and wimmen, and diden heom in prison and pined heom efter gold and sylver untellendlice pining; for ne uuaerern naevre mas martyrs swa pined alse hi waeron."

A Portuguese would not be able to understand French which only became the national language of France AFTER  World War One.

half a Dave you are an ASS.

Date: 2006/06/08 08:19:20, Link
Author: k.e
Hahahahahaha nice job Faid!!

What no French Oui? Cem!!

Date: 2006/06/08 18:36:11, Link
Author: k.e
Has anyone noticed how cry baby half a Dave goes when he gets his brain spanked.

And how the denial knob is turned up to 11 when the best he can come back with after a comprehensive head flush is "but your arguments are nonsense”

Translated for those without the dreaded crippling D/3 brain wasting projection disease as

"but (I am unable to process)your arguments (which are beyond me; due to my childhood Fundy brainwashing and seem to me no more than) nonsense”

And then corrects spelling !!!!!

Oh..... they must be ALL wrong about everything because they make an error in a WORD.

WORDS are holy !!!!!!!!!

For D/2 El Wordo (thats Portuguese for THE WORD) IS the LORD he CANNOT tell the difference.
You can't frick with words otherwise the world will end.


sand pit stuff.....cry baby.

D/2's denial makes Hitler's last days look like a walk in the park.

This guy is beyond Parody...

I'll bet if a good writer gets hold of this material D/2 will be immortalized as the smartest stupidest person ever to grace the silver screen.

Forrest Gump with a degree AND in the Air Force as a Pilot
or Homer teaching Newculeer Physics AND in the Air Force as a Pilot
or......GWB as President AND in the Air Force as a Pilot....hey...hang on?
Like I said beyond Parody.

Date: 2006/06/08 19:26:24, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Guys I JUST Remembered why Dembski forgot what he said before he called PvM a scummy quote miner on PT.

His doctor was Spike Milligan . Q series ..ah those were the days.


DOCTOR (MILLIGAN): (Getting rapidly out of his chair and staring intensely at camera) This is a doctor sketch! (Eyes patient suspiciously) What do you want?

PATIENT: Doctor, do you have anything for Amnesia?

DOCTOR: (Incredulous) For WHAT?

(Patient scratches his head)

MILLIGAN: (Grinning, to camera, out of character) For people with bad memories, here it is again!

PATIENT: Here's what again?

DOCTOR: (Forgetting) withering, cross-eyed look to camera followed by a freeze-frame!!!;)

Date: 2006/06/08 19:38:39, Link
Author: k.e
Change ID to IE?

Predictive Interdimensional Directives and Demskian  Liturgical Expectations ....PIDDLE

drip drip drip

Date: 2006/06/09 04:00:30, Link
Author: k.e
Nah they're not Jeebus groupy personality cultists they want to praise Sun Myung Moon..... otherwise known as GOD

Date: 2006/06/09 05:47:04, Link
Author: k.e
Captain the moral relativity power crystal is overheating if  she gets any hotter she will disintegrate

Scotty don't try that old quartermaster trick on me I know the Limit of that crystal

Captain she's your ship... Sir!

......and so due to Captain Kirks bold going where no mathmatician had previously gone, a curious quirk in the cosmic space time continium allowed all of them to dissappear up their own fundaments.

Enter stage left FLESH GORDON with Doctor Flexi Jerkoff and Emperor Wang (the Perverted) leader of the planet Porno who sends his mighty "Sex Ray" towards Earth. TDiddy gets the full blast while looking at his mother dressed in his Fathers leather bikers outfit flailing a hog with a metal chain while smoking a huge Cuban. Well at least it looked like a cigar to him the Cuban meanwhile seemed to be moaning.

Date: 2006/06/09 05:59:05, Link
Author: k.e
Spock a word in your ear if I may?

Spock smiles

Would I be right in thinking that a zero energy wave is a wave with zero energy?

Close, sir.

Back in zero gravity school they told us that a wave IS actually energy.

Closer, captain.

So a zero energy wave is an oxymoron?

You earthlings are so slow

Date: 2006/06/09 06:36:06, Link
Author: k.e
half a Dave I'm a little puzzled

Why are you arguing on subjects way out of your range when you are the worlds foremost expert on the Portuguese language?

Surely to be so authoritative and scholarly  in fields other than Portuguese would require a whole lifetime of study.

And since your lifetimes work HAS made you the worlds greatest Portuguese-ist
don't you think that claiming to be something other than  the worlds greatest Portuguese-ist is a case of severe HUBRIS not to mention MALPRACTICE and incompetence?

Date: 2006/06/10 06:33:08, Link
Author: k.e
Well thanks half a Dave.
Not only do I get to learn new interesting stuff about things you find impossible to understand due to your stupidity, I get them explained over and over in ever finer detail ...due to your stupidity..

But that's not all folks. Not only does half a Dave's denial provide a perfect case study of Christian Fundamentalist parallels with other diabolical mind control experiments carried out through the ages, he provides quotes for a Huxley. Thank you D/2 I appreciate a little intellectual excursion once in a while, it makes a nice change from your verbal diluvial wanking.

Date: 2006/06/11 02:34:59, Link
Author: k.e
From Under Done;

to clean the ID house. Intelligent Design Evolution it is!

Why stop there guys why not Intelligent Darwinian Creation - Creationism Redefined As Proxy (IDC CRAP) to shorten it you could just call it  GDI goddidit

How about.

Non-darwinian Evolution Explicitly Designed --- Creationism Rejected Until The Creationists Holler (NEED CRUTCH)....we accept the expurgated version of evolution...the one without evolution .


DENI Darwinian Evolution Needs Intelligence.

Date: 2006/06/11 02:55:10, Link
Author: k.e
Why would we take your opinions of yourself concerning your military performance any more seriously than your 'scientific' performance D/2?

You have discredited any past achievement you claim, by your incredibly untruthful use of knowledge.

Why don't you see what sort of a reception you get over at your one of your hero's sites ...say UD.

See if they buy your RATE piglet.

Date: 2006/06/11 05:24:13, Link
Author: k.e
Wow not one but TWO REAL fighter pilots at your wedding ........who the F$%^ are you GOD?

So what does that entitle you to ...a free Big Mac?

At least you can blame them if the AF blows up more Canadians by accident in Afghanistan.

Who me? I'm not a fighter pilot.

Your ego knows no bounds does it D/2, just change the subject to something irrelevant and hope for some reflected glory and nobody calls on your lying ways

Well D/2 lets start with the biggest lie first shall we?

A 6000 year old earth is an outright lie AFDAVE and you know it. No amount of squirming is going to get you out of it. Your repeating of those lies denies such things as Nuclear explosions, the formation of crude Oil, cosmic microwave background radiation, plus quite literally mountains of evidence prior to your lie.

What are you scared of? The fact that your parents lied to you? The Fact that you are carrying on that lie to your children? Isn't there a place promised for people like you.

Coffee break over D/2... head back in the sewer.

Date: 2006/06/12 04:12:26, Link
Author: k.e
GCT urbanely says "It's quite funny"

Can I award you the "Understatement of the year award"

Mixed picks (Not the best by a very long shot)

First, a good many conservatives oppose the teaching of ID in public schools. Judge Jones, a Republican, does. Michael Ruse, who called himself a conservative when I heard him speak, does.


To know that ID is not viewed as politically neutral just look around. What are some of the most politically left elements of our society? Academia, Media, Entertainment, Activist groups such as the ACLU, elements of the Democrat party. How many of each has supported ID? What is the general attitude of each of these groups on this issue?

Mommy mommy we are being attacked by the educated and cultured element of society.

Quiet stupid or no TV tonight.

I love the sound of REACTIONARY POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUSLY CONSERVATIVE FUNDIES (did you hear that Frau dSS) getting their panties in a knot.

Oooooooh nobody luvs us everybody hates us.


ahhhh! and its all free!!!

Date: 2006/06/12 04:45:37, Link
Author: k.e
Yawn ....somebody wake me up when AFDave starts explaining why he is lying in less than 5 sentences.

Date: 2006/06/12 08:26:16, Link
Author: k.e
You picked up AFDrone's Mega-Projection


But the power of 'wanting to believe something' is immense.

Yeah he is on the point of Discombobulation

Translating dat long port-u-goose wid fr u D

'Mr Fawltey 'e go crazee, mucho loco' (points finger to head and makes circular motion)

My prediction is his post's will get longer and longer as he SCREAMS out 'grip don't let me down.'

Oh and more power to you AFDave if you are planning on stealing children's lives for the American Taliban .....go for it you can use this Blog as a Character reference. America needs more cannon fodder.

Date: 2006/06/12 09:13:57, Link
Author: k.e
Stolen from somewhere else

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite #### of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many nonchristianss do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian

Date: 2006/06/12 09:19:27, Link
Author: k.e
Do you like Dogs AFTarget Drone ?? (on and on and on)

A Truly incredible dog

This fundamentalist Christian couple felt it important to own an equally fundamentally Christian pet. So, they went shopping. At a kennel specializing in this particular breed, they found a dog they liked quite a lot. When they asked the dog to fetch the Bible, he did it in a flash. When they instructed him to look up Psalm 23, he complied equally fast, using his paws with dexterity.

They were impressed, purchased the animal, and went home (piously, of course). That night they had friends over. They were so proud of their new fundamentalist dog and his major skills, they called the dog and showed off a little. The friends were impressed, and asked whether the dog was able to do any of the usual dog tricks, as well. This stopped the couple cold, as they hadn't thought about 'normal' tricks.

"Well," they said, "let's try this out."

Once more they called out to the dog, and then clearly pronounced the command, "Heel!"

Quick as a wink, the dog jumped up, put his paw on the man's forehead, closed his eyes in concentration, and bowed his head.

Date: 2006/06/12 10:03:37, Link
Author: k.e
Typical. Another ad homonym argument from those vicious evilutionists

Yeah the dog took him literally ---snigger

Date: 2006/06/14 01:15:59, Link
Author: k.e
Clamboy I'm jealous.....laffed so hard almost choked!!!!
Could we have a reprise on Dave Tard?
.....Or doesn't she aim lower than a snakes arsehole in a wagon rut?

Date: 2006/06/14 06:23:18, Link
Author: k.e
Richard that's so unfair
.... now ugly David Scott Springer is going to have to print a retraction and admit to (another) huge mistake.

Or should we write one for him?

Date: 2006/06/15 11:07:23, Link
Author: k.e
Re: Mr. D.SS the flying turd and the claims he has an IQ of 150+...... I ask why would he make a mistake like that...... what with the anal attention to minute details and stuff that sort of brain power  demands.

I say he cheated on his tickle IQ test (I'm not providing a link since The site is devoted to parting fools from their money). Does he provide evidence for such a plainly wild claim?

'Tis a pity he didn't take the reading literally like his stupid Fundy Friends........then there really would be a god!!!! Isn't there a search on for Flying Fundamentalists?

Date: 2006/06/15 19:50:13, Link
Author: k.e
And there you have it, after saying the conclusions of millions of evolved ape hours of painstaking work coupled with truly creative intuitive flashes require him to have 'faith', peg this guy on a par with people who accept the (inerrant, according to them) ramblings of a few so called holy men as fact or for that matter their own incoherency either case pure hubris.

And they call US relativists.

That method of acquiring knowledge in a totally cynical (without value) and unskeptical (without reason) manner reflects a sickness in society, due to pockets of collective fear of the unknown within their own horizons  and a desperate struggle to reject modernity and go back to a type of sharia law.

Skeptic Said

I believe the possible outcomes are restricted based upon the molecular mechanisms at work, but the DNA does not "know" the ultimate goal it is progressing to.

Do you need faith to digest your food? to breath?

Nothing 'knows' the future.

Our minds have been able to deduce that the ultimate goal of all life is survival .....pure and simple and the devil take the hindmost (well actually scavengers,microbes,ants,worms.... other life. Life feeds upon life to survive just ask any parasite ) . I wouldn't like to be between a tiger and her cubs or a armed human mother and her offspring in a matter of life and death.

Thats all there is to it, nothing holy/existential/spiritual/godly/demonic at all, it is the one thing that drives humans to distraction. Let them talk for long enough and all their fears and vanities come out.

Imposing order on nature/life, our surroundings and other people both actually and metaphysically IS the human condition where do you think the idea for 'god(s)' originated?

Overcomming that condition could be descibed as ..dare I say it ...devine?

Date: 2006/06/16 03:12:39, Link
Author: k.e
Gil must have been thinking about the " weakest link".
(a TV quiz show where the losers were unceremoniously told they were the weakest link and shown the exit)

Date: 2006/06/16 06:22:56, Link
Author: k.e
Richard add  to Herr d.SS' profile
Drunken sailor
Flying Girly Boy
Scientific American subscriber -gift from wife?

We have the video of his first meeting with her.

Dave meets Ms Dave.

Date: 2006/06/16 08:01:46, Link
Author: k.e
Put in perspective half a Dave, AiG etc are using the Piltdown technique to promote a Fraud on you.

I don't see why you even bother trying to 'convert' us using so called 'facts'.

If you value evidence based on IRRELAVENT  and relativist pure emotion but not it's OBJECTIVE value why would you expect us to assign any value to your nonsense.

You disregard any evidence that you don't like, not on it's merit, but on how you 'feel'.

Imagine if a doctor or engineer disregarded the experts in their fields and expediently reached conclusions not on actual evidence but on purely selfish grounds such as their religious opinion or how much money they could make, in anybodies language they would be called a misanthrope.

Date: 2006/06/17 02:58:02, Link
Author: k.e
Going down? hahahahahahahahahahhahaha

Date: 2006/06/17 04:10:34, Link
Author: k.e
ooooh,ooooh,ooooh I been wanting to ask these questions for a long,long,time.
P. please ask him
1. Is his nose as big as it is in his pictures?
2. Why he didn't create water? (not noted anywhere in all of the Genesis' ) answer accepted from Mrs. God.
3. Does he have any dirt on the Pope,Jerry,Pat etc?
4. Why didn't he make men with penises on their foreheads so we could cut short the samba,movies,dinner and moonlit walks? (Suzy, I think that guy really likes you)
5. Is he a carbon based life form?
6. When he last spoke to Osama, GWB and Ollie North did he make sure they had paid their taxes?
7. When was the last time he fiddled with creation?
8. Why didn't he create the world in one day and give us all 6 days off to celebrate him?
9. When is he going to invade Canada? Its just that my best fieind is Canadian and I want to give him to know.
10. What are the numbers for the next powerball?

Date: 2006/06/17 04:14:40, Link
Author: k.e
Ahhhhhh: What would we do without these IDiots
And its all free.
I almost feel guilty(almost .....hahahahahahahah

Date: 2006/06/17 04:42:16, Link
Author: k.e
Just for the record AFDave; the only reason you are doing this is to brainwash your children.

A crime against humanity if ever there was one.

Remember there is no greater God than God.......Allah Akbar!!!

Die Crusader Fundy Scum!!

Date: 2006/06/17 07:17:56, Link
Author: k.e
AF Dave
Precious precious.

One ring for all Dave

Tolkien bored my knickers off ........Catholic apologetics reached its high point with Evelyn Waugh in my opinion.

Someone  finish this .....please!

Otherwise I will be forced to medievil taunts ....and it will not be pretty.

Date: 2006/06/17 07:21:19, Link
Author: k.e
UD adds global warming denial to the mix. What a surprise.

Quick sell them some land in Florida!!!


Date: 2006/06/17 08:27:44, Link
Author: k.e
Arden said:

Doesn't it trouble you that this seems to happen every 5 minutes?

Of course not ONCE THE BEAST HAS MATED its all over sunshine!

"The Second Coming" by W. B. Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Survival ........the evolutionary engine.

Date: 2006/06/17 08:34:50, Link
Author: k.e

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Thought you'd like to know that ......since arseholes can't understand anything.

Date: 2006/06/17 21:20:31, Link
Author: k.e

.... God doesnt have a nose

*switch to vaudeville mode

Spiv 1

I say I say I say; how does god smell if he has no nose?

Spiv 2

Bloody awful ....boom boom

Date: 2006/06/18 04:51:31, Link
Author: k.e
Half a Dave/ Black Ku-nig-it 'alright, well call it a draw' on the Portuguese thingy.

AF Dave your kids are going to find out you are blithering loony, keep going. Please don't stop now.

Hey, do you let them watch the Monty Python Movies?

I thought not .....a little inconvenient when you are brainwashing them.

Do they still read this thread?
Be honest.

Date: 2006/06/18 06:11:12, Link
Author: k.e
Skeptic asked:

Is there an evolutionary basis or justification for religion?  Just a thought.

In my opinion there are tribal/family survival justifications for religion/mysticism/politics/social organization

Was religion the result of a survival need?

More particularly was there an advantage to be had by creating a tribal 'reality' a super ego that allowed the group to function as though there was an 'overseer' who the members of the group always thought was there even when the tribal leaders were not. Instructions could be carried out beyond the purview of the creators of that reality(The chief and his propaganda minister/priest/shaman).

Since the actual thing that sets us more apart from other animals is our ability to 'read minds' a necessary function in social animals. Other social animals do the same, anyone who owns a dog will tell you they can read your mind. However add sophisticated language and the whole thing can be a very powerful method of social control.

Add to that the very long time humans are children before they reach sexual and mental maturity. So to make full use of our brains and to fulfill our ability to reproduce a massive amount of social engineering takes place.

Or did the process of creating religions come as the result of our brains co-opting a previously developed successful evolutionary trait in brain development such as masculine hunting or warfare, feminine nurture and gathering.

I'm sure a case could be made for some sort of co-development of language, story telling/ mythology. Thought control in the individual and group by our abilities in abstract reasoning. In other words 'religion' came about by default as a natural extension of being social animals.

We can see how ancient religion started by studying the remaining stone age hunter gatherer cultures alive in recent history. A good example would be the Australian Aborigines. Their initiation ceremonies can be traced back thousands of years. When the first white settlers landed in the 1790's they documented those ceremonies which around the Sydney area involved removing one of the initiates top front teeth. Skulls were discovered with the same feature, that from memory ,were 10,000 years or older. The initiation ceremonies (the modern descends are the  Bar Mitzvah, Christening) are a symbolic link with the tribes ancestors where childhood is officially ended in no uncertain terms and the boy is 'transformed' into a man by losing part of the body 'to the ancestors' as a blood payment. Note the child in those societies was physically transformed by scarring, tattoos, circumcision etc and that was to parallel the mental and physical transformation to adulthood. Serious stuff. If you tried to skulk out you would be forced to comply or at best ostracized or worst killed.

In fact the ceremony involved the boys 'godfathers' re-enacting their  own initiation at the ceremony by dancing themselves into a trance and at the end would fall to the ground and spit out a ceremonial bone shaped to take out the initiates tooth. The payment is non-negotiable and with that payment the rewards are inclusion ...oh and for the boy permission to take a wife.

Neuroscience I believe is not much further now than Darwin was around 150 years ago however the field has vast potential to uncover a deeper understanding of how we act under social constraints. There is an interesting study of the growth in size of brain activity when tests were done on people that involved acts of trust. Look up [URL=]US scientists say they can tell whether one person trusts another, by using a brain scan. [/URL

Will neuroscience make religion obsolete?

Not as long as the ancestors are watching.

Date: 2006/06/18 18:24:32, Link
Author: k.e

I'll answer for Otto ....he may be punctured.

Pffft...... mere instructions and pissant rules are no use when you have god on your side.

Heck how do you think ID does science?

Do we take stupid facts into account? Of course not!

Why even bother with them when we already KNOW that god (and Ronnie Reagan ,Lord rest his memory, if it can be found) meant us to fly the whole frigging planet with the good book.

And not just ANY good book but the special one where all the dirty librul bits have been torn out.

Yes we bronze agers are going to fix your smart asses.

When we look up to the heavens we don't see clouds and blue sky, no we see another dominion to be conquered, in whatshisnames name.

Look at those other guys who flew in the Lords/Allah's name, did they follow any stupid rules? No of course not. They just grabbed the stick and trusted god. When god says you are right, who were they to question that wisdom?  They didn't ask any questions like "Prove to me that god said that science and evidence is wrong,   its just your word against theirs"

Deflate that, Homo -dt

Date: 2006/06/19 05:00:21, Link
Author: k.e
Earlier in this thread I predicted AFDickead's (don't worry he is well accustomed to it) posts would get longer.

AFDickhead lost Dover. Boo hoo hoo.

If or when religious facists like AFDave get to change the law of the land from Roman to the sharia law of Jerusalem his posts will be just 2 words ''F*uck you"

How's the brainwashing going D/2?

Date: 2006/06/19 05:17:06, Link
Author: k.e
BS D/2 do you think you are fooling anyone except yourself?

Give us a Jeremiah, you know you want to.

Or are you going to cowardly hide behind devilish nonsense?

Date: 2006/06/19 06:26:29, Link
Author: k.e
Propaganda and the Big Lie eh AFDickhead?

You know he was a Christian?

Date: 2006/06/19 08:23:18, Link
Author: k.e
AFDave the Joseph Goebbels  of YECers is a Hypocrite.**

**HYPOCRITE, n. One who, professing virtues that he does not respect, secures the advantage of seeming to be what he despises.

(From The Devils Dictionary)

Date: 2006/06/19 08:33:41, Link
Author: k.e

I love the smell of burning Fundy Hysteria.***

and its all free.

a psychoneurosis marked by emotional excitability and disturbances of the psychic, sensory, vasomotor, and visceral functions without an organic basis b : a similar condition in domestic animals

Date: 2006/06/19 08:53:48, Link
Author: k.e
I presume DT is talking about pollen fossils? and the science of palenteology which is used to date 130MYO carboniferous sediments in oil wells.

DAFTDave should have a look at Ancient Big Game Hunters of Europe and their descendants for more recent stuff.

Date: 2006/06/19 19:45:37, Link
Author: k.e
Gak!! I thought I got the spelling right  

Palynology = the study of pollen fossils

And since the oil companies find it so useful in  exploration, the science has had significant growth and investment allowing ancient enviroments and climates to be documented.

Date: 2006/06/19 20:07:58, Link
Author: k.e
Hey, half a Dave, you drive a car don't you?

How was crude oil formed?

What kind of world allowed all that previously  living matter to form crude oil ?

Date: 2006/06/20 03:48:47, Link
Author: k.e
Hey otto forget about hellish insurance premiums for coastal dwellers how about an intollerable spike in CO2 emmisions once siberia melts.

Global warming= climate change( an orwellian invention by BushCo)= Global meltdown.

Sand anyone? Oh you want water with that about whiskey?

its cheaper!!

Date: 2006/06/20 03:54:41, Link
Author: k.e
Yawn .....

half a Dave

Longer = more boring


Date: 2006/06/20 04:14:23, Link
Author: k.e
Nice try half a Dave

In your case more in a posting= less informaton

and less in a posting = less information (shrug)

Date: 2006/06/20 04:44:23, Link
Author: k.e
halfa Dave finds salavtion in fat!
Green Fuel's Dirty Secret

Date: 2006/06/20 05:03:31, Link
Author: k.e
Well  as I said in the past 1/2 a Dave's post will get longer and Funy terrorist? D/2? ...forget that...try Fundy Khemer Rouge except year zero was 4000BCE.


Date: 2006/06/20 05:37:49, Link
Author: k.e
All of them (creationists/Fundie Xtians/Talibhan /Khemer Rouge/Al Qaeda ) they are chicken sh*it liars on both science AND religion

Date: 2006/06/20 06:01:23, Link
Author: k.e
A Play on sounds SE
AFDave = aaa eeef dave
haa eef dave

half a dave

1/2 a dave


borrowed partly from J. Cambell's readings of Joyce's Finnegans Wake

Finn's (HCE's) two sons Shem and Shaun were only half the man their father was. A subtle construct of mans mental dichotomy in a single story...the mono-myth.. a bible in reverse.

One the worldly traveler, 1/2 priest, entrepreneur intent on converting the world for personal gain the other the consummate terrorist artist.

Date: 2006/06/20 06:06:20, Link
Author: k.e

I would be more worried about tiny bugs moving to warmer climes. Malaria, nile river virus, ross river virus, dengue  fever..etc ect.

Date: 2006/06/20 06:15:28, Link
Author: k.e
You see?

Half the man?

Half of god, but not complete?

Half of a projected image of what created him? (un-be-known to him....himself)

Not complete.


get it?

Its a poetic thing..

Like the whole frikkern bible...except the parts where it says to kill everything...that's real..because it really happened..just like Rawananda, Pol Pot etc etc.

THAT's 4 u D/2.

Date: 2006/06/20 06:40:42, Link
Author: k.e
Ah YES!!! OA

The cold (or hot) steel of modernity cuts the horse flesh from beneath the romantic(smooch) Knight.

The canons farted in their general direction.

Their mothers smelled of elderbery and their fathers were all hamsters ...either way.

Hey ho! Rocinante!! ....that skiny old, broken down horse known as religion.

Date: 2006/06/21 03:34:23, Link
Author: k.e
(quoting Thurber)
"It's a naive domestic burgundy without any breeding, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption." So Berlinksi has his fun at the expense of people who actually get their hands dirty in their foolish attempts to augment the body of knowledge in biology.
(stolen from ......lost mouse pointer AKA the dog stole my homework..snickker)

he he he
Poor old Berlinski, he is suffering from irrelevancy syndrome since his monumental faux pas in front of some of the worlds leading mathematicians.


Once upon a time in Prague .........
Berlinski goes to Prague University to lecture on Tychnoff's theorem, a sophisticated result from topology. One of his hosts is Professor Swoboda, a mathematician. “Swoboda is extraordinarily intelligent,” Berlinski tells us. Please remember these things. Berlinski is giving a math talk attended by an extraordinarily intelligent mathematician. Here is an extended quote from the middle of his narration:

I am supposed to talk about Tychonoff's theorem, but to my surprise I find myself explaining the elementary calculus to a roomful of mathematicians, re-creating in my own mind the steps that Bolzano took in order to define continuity. For some reason I feel it absolutely crucial to explain how the concept of a limit is applied to functions. No one seems to mind or even notice.

“A function indicates a relationship in progress, arguments going to values. Given any real number, the function f(x) = x2 returns its square, tak? ... In go arguments 1, 2, 3, out come the values, 1, 4, 9.... As the arguments of f get larger and larger, its values get larger and larger in turn.* ... Now imagine,” I say, “arguments coming closer and closer to the number 3, tak?”

I walk back to the blackboard and show the men in my audience what I mean, writing, 2, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, ..., before the function.

“What then happens to the function? How does it behave?” I ask, realizing with a sense of wonder somewhat at odds with the hard-boiled pose I usually affect, that a function is among the things in this world that behaves—it has a life of its own and so in its own way participates in the drama of things that are animate.

“I mean,” I say, “what happens to the values of f as its arguments approach 3?”

I look out toward my audience. Swoboda and Schweik are looking at me intently, their faces serene, without irony. It is plain to me that they do not know the answer yet.

“They approach, those values, the number 9, so that the function is now seen as running up against a limit, a boundary beyond which it does not go.”

Swoboda leans back and sighs audibly, as if for the first time he had grasped a difficult principle. The room, with its wooden pews and narrow blackboard, is getting close.

I say, “The concept of a limit, as it is applied to functions, is forged in the fire of these remarks.”

There's more. Much more. But enough. Can you explain this passage to me? Berlinski begins by admitting he is talking about elementary calculus, but then has his roomful of mathematicians rapt in awe as he reveals that values of the squaring function approach 9 as its arguments approach 3. College students would not be surprised by this result, let along a roomful of mathematicians.

I presume Berlinski intends this as an extended metaphor, because otherwise he is cruelly mocking his Hungarian Czech colleagues. The point of the metaphor, however, is completely and entirely lost on me. His absurdist account continues with yet another elementary limit. A moderately competent Calculus I student would dispatch it promptly and math teachers could do it in their heads, but Berlinski presents it to his audience with drama and mystery. The mathematicians leave the seminar at its conclusion and trudge down the street, exhausted. “Their tread is heavy and tired.”

I know how they feel.

His projection of his high school angst as an uber nerd must have seemed to him the ultimate 'I got even with those jerks' but you guys missed the best bits.... T&A.

Yes serial misogynist Doc. B. has exiled himself in the capital of doggy style and Paris; where coiffured poodles of both canine and ape species reign supreme.
The stale smell of Gauloise and garlic are not for him, he gets to " watch the inaccessible leggy young women". He should know I sppose. His own personal H3LL ...... he must be loving it.

His sock puppet performance as 'idon'treallycare' on Good Math, Bad Math, and David Berlinkski thread as well as here  
As tango half way down and his subsequent 'independent' defense of himself  here ]Berlinski responds complete with sock puppet whothefuckreallygivesashit.

So as the self styled  enfant terrible of the creationist political religion he likes to have a bet both ways, gay?

Well, he wouldn't be the first.

Maybe he got lucky , he has kept his appendage down for a while.

Various amusesments attributble to Doc. Faux


I happen to know that Talk Reason maintains a secret account at Smalto’s in Paris. Word is that Wesley Elsberry has just ordered suiting in a mink-worsted blend …


Berlinski on Berlinski: What Trees Does He Plant?

Berlinski accepts the mantle of DI Fellow, one suspects, because they're willing to pay him the sycophantic homage he believes is his due. He's on record as saying that the idea of Intelligent Design "Theory" doesn't interest him much. In the linked "interview" he describes his attitude towards it as "...pretty much what it has always been: warm but distant. It's the same attitude that I display in public towards my ex-wives." The fact that Berlinski has had wives is somewhat more surprising than the fact that he has a collection of former ones.


their posts convey that characteristic combination of pustules and gonorrhea that one would otherwise associate with high-school toughs, with even the names--Sir Toejam, The Reverend Lenny Flank,--suggesting nothing so much as a group of guys spending a great deal of time hanging around their basements running video games, eating pizzas and jeering at various leggy but inaccessible young women.

Wow. That's some sentence. One gets the feeling that Berlinski eschews the utility of the full stop out of his utter glee in hearing himself go on and on unimpeded by bothersome punctuation. It's also interesting to note that he ascribes low-lifeism to "the men who contribute" to PT without saying that it's the commenters there and not the actual contributors that he's referring to. Otherwise he would have to admit that the intellectual assets of PT contributors are considerable; you can see for yourself here.

By and large they're people who are doing something to make the world a better place other than sitting on their fat asses in Paris disparaging all who would deign to believe that mere science, and the actual work (here one sees Berlinski reacting to the sound of the word as Maynard G. Krebs would) that scientists do on a daily basis is worth nothing more than some occasional self-worshiping intellectual masturbation.

So what? Berlinski is a Homo and I'm a mathmatician sum that -DT

Date: 2006/06/21 04:11:07, Link
Author: k.e
errrrm 'cuse me while I put on my Berlinskian maths outfit Wearing pink tasseled slippers and conical hats covered in polka dots, over what bits, one has to wonder.

How much? D@mn the price of sin!! But heck the wages ARE good.

Date: 2006/06/21 04:15:18, Link
Author: k.e
d/2 whined
You are correct that the oil companies are spending billions to open up new sources, but how many new sources are there?  I don't know the answer, but they are finite

ta da!

And why are they finite?

Think 130 million years ago, half an arsehole!

Date: 2006/06/21 04:53:17, Link
Author: k.e
Dammit, they told me this Ironometer had surge protection.

Steve you need my (yet to be patented) Gil Irony Meter Blindfold. (GIMB)

It cleverly releases your mind from ID related sticky stuff by simply ignoring the facts.

Date: 2006/06/21 05:13:12, Link
Author: k.e
Belinksi's background?

Something along the lines of Jewish agnostic, a genius mathematician who missed the Einstein bounce for a Nobel, pimping for the DI where they tolerate his 3rd person self interview idiocy.. a flower among the thorns or something, hanging out in Paris for now ..or until Argentina accepts idiot savant religio-political refugees who want to bone up on their Tango with girls a fraction of their age.

Date: 2006/06/21 05:30:20, Link
Author: k.e
D/2 God has promised no such thing otherwise the  New Orleans flood would never have happened.

And who are you to say what God has promised?

Osama has a better line to god than you, is he right?

Date: 2006/06/21 05:35:49, Link
Author: k.e
Man that has to be the longest 25 seconds in history!!

D/2 what about the flood due to co2?

Or is the co2 released into the atmosphere due to burning fossil ):) fuels discounted at the same RATE as your dummed down stupid c14 argument?

Date: 2006/06/21 05:43:31, Link
Author: k.e
Roll up, roll up, roll up.

I have here in my hand Ladeeez and Gennelman a God discounted C14 atom. Yes for a small sum no more than your tythe you can have a C14 atom that has a 1/100 of a half life. Yes that's right a genuwhine fast C14 atom. Now be quick before someone else grabs it. Cleetus and I have to get to the next town before nightfall.

Date: 2006/06/21 05:56:33, Link
Author: k.e

vocal minority of anti-religionists

Hey, I thought IDiots were claiming to be in the minority.

Oh ....and ID has nothing to do with religion, not a bit, nothing whatsoever, not even a sniff, nup, no religion at all, nada, not a bit, not even a tiny bit.

So good old Judge Jones was right on the money, suck it down DT, in fact bend over and enjoy it.

Date: 2006/06/21 06:43:38, Link
Author: k.e
Just a reminder D/2 the Bible 'says' nothing. It does not talk. What YOU read and WHAT you think those writings may mean are totally up to you.

You are in no position to make any claims more authoritively than anyone else, nobody is ....not you.... not me.... not Osama.

If it is written that C14's half life is X years then you may want to ask the author how he arrived at such a conclusion.

Date: 2006/06/21 07:29:08, Link
Author: k.e
Hey, that's not fair DT would have to be an expert in probability as well!!

Physics as far as the unholy DT is concerned is the science of scotch and coke with 2 ice cubes and both feet up after a hard day filling out an insurance form while catching snatches of Sci-Am between The Bold and the Beautiful and American Idol.

Date: 2006/06/21 08:01:48, Link
Author: k.e
OK and howabout JAD as well?

The both of them can do our work better than we can.

A free for all at the local, we could start a collection to pay for their drinks.

Better than the Goya of the fish wives.

Date: 2006/06/21 08:07:35, Link
Author: k.e
DT and JAD sharing a good EVO meal

Date: 2006/06/21 08:20:48, Link
Author: k.e
Richard u r so vicious!!!

R u lou reed in deskys?

Date: 2006/06/21 17:24:59, Link
Author: k.e
Oh Richard |;)4\/374r|;) will never figure that out :>

Date: 2006/06/22 02:58:42, Link
Author: k.e
Which reminds me of an old early 70's movie where a couple make love on the beach, the guy asks "Was that good for you" the girl answers "No, too much sand".

Date: 2006/06/22 03:18:33, Link
Author: k.e
Not for AFD/2 (how should we worship you oh Lord).

Liars all who, bible make, history,
His-story, is to bake lies for his children.
To prop up His-story.
No bible lies, unless unread.
Un-red the marks of Jesus, for 'tis revelation, nil capital-
a rich man cannot enter the kingdom of god.
Nor a revealer, for silver and moral alone, who for want of glory, despises truth.

Date: 2006/06/23 02:23:43, Link
Author: k.e
Alan;  Huh? was me,  somehow the login wouldn't let me go thru as k.e. I'm getting old and impatient.

Date: 2006/06/24 05:13:32, Link
Author: k.e
Ant Pisso seems to me to be an atheist Catholic, not that there is anything wrong with that, but amusing to see all the same. It must be giving him quite a headache.

Date: 2006/06/24 06:31:55, Link
Author: k.e
The Bible is the oldest, most reliable history book ever.

That's right D/2 just like Detective fiction is true.

Have you heard of the UPANISHADS or the Hindu Vedas ?

Historians agree that they are among the oldest texts known of today, older that the "Imaginary history of the Jewish People" otherwise know as the Old Testament.

Dave your acceptance of false evidence discredits any attempt you make to use ANY evidence, everyone here knows you are unreliable.

We do not have the original writing for those texts only copies.

But we do have ORIGINAL rock art 20,000 - 50,000 years old, evidence you can go see for yourself.

Date: 2006/06/25 09:55:29, Link
Author: k.e
DT 'big ups himself' as per Ali G.
Have a cigar DT you deserve it.

Oh BTW did you hear? ID is dead according to the DI.

Time for Sleeping Beauty to have another 100 year nap.

Billy boy will be long gone, so some other handsome prince (giggle) will have to admisiter the Big Kiss.

How is Billy BTW?

Pucker up Davey boy.

Date: 2006/06/25 10:04:16, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah, but he must know the backwash will let it pass from one ear to the next without the slightest interference.

The only thing that sticks is all the god talk.

They must be so deperate for a bit of fundy pussy.

They should follow my policy 'don't ask don't tell' you can tell 'em you believe anything they like as long as you get to third base.

Date: 2006/06/26 21:43:02, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Dave (kisses Billy's cute little tushie) get him to straighten out his 'theology'.

"Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory,"

You need a complex de-bullshipping filter to translate it to what it really means.

"Intelligent design is just the right wingnut Propaganda of identity politics restated in the idiom of Joseph  Goebels ,"

(he was a Christian too, you know).

Date: 2006/06/27 03:04:51, Link
Author: k.e
Holy "enola gay" mother of god. ....”Ebola Gay ...just for you dSS”  and for Stanley Kubrik fans yeeeeeehaaaaaa!! (..and for those who have no idea what I'm talking about
Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

AF Dave has finally blown a gasket.

Man D/2 you need the mother of all enemas.

History has bypassed you completely. 60's,70's,80's,90's,00's but you didn't get past the 50's  eh?

From 5 years old when Moma?Soma told you the un-facts of life, you have been truly deluded, young boy.

I wish you worms and Dante's outer circles in perpetuity.

Kind of like now.

Now davey boy, just how masochistic are you?

You are a piece of work.

Listen up everyone.

D/2 is the very clever result of truly Goebbelian programming. (he noted that the harder that his opponents worked it made his side Martyrs and more driven.....such is the power  of implementing “divine” guidance ...especially since he WAS the divine guidance.

No matter what we say, he takes our attacks on his truly crazy mind set as CONFIMATION of his beliefs.

That is not a new human mechanistic response to DEEP brain washing.

It is the very predictable pathological trajectory of "get 'em young and they are yours for life" result of a truly old testament god ordained claim on your tribal enemies land, women and domestic animals ....Genocide...Rawanda anyone?

Date: 2006/06/27 03:24:15, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Air Force half dick

Take in a little culture from Soma and Papa time, when they should have been Samba-ing


Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

You know half dick Goebbels was asked by an American journalist "was it hard to get a whole nation to go to war?"

His reply?

"No of course not, just create an enemy and the people will do the rest"

THAT half a dick is your dirty little secret.

Date: 2006/06/27 05:25:31, Link
Author: k.e

What next? Peer reviewed ID in "T*ts and B*ms".... a weekly review of Church Architecture.

Glossary needed here for DT.
T*ts =Human  mammary glands
B*ms= The bits at the back, think of them as the long black strip on the glide path where you point your pecker while you come in to land your tiny pizzer.

Date: 2006/06/28 02:26:44, Link
Author: k.e
Well, well, well said the policeman when he came to a hole in the road.

Verrrrry interesting.

PZ has lost the plot.

I hope he enjoys fighting the war on his own.

Still, in some ways it's a good sign.

ID is dead a buried.

As for Orwelian double think?

How many years is it to 2050 when Ingsoc takes over completely?  And science (New Speak --Vocabulary Class C) is reduced to an unintelligable foriegn language or  Old Speak that no one understands.

Some how I think, I will not be living to 95 years old to see that date, but my guess is New Speak will be current sooner rather than later

Happily  PZ probably will not see the same date.

Date: 2006/06/28 04:54:07, Link
Author: k.e
I see UD is *particularly* sciencey today.




SA  will be giving them an a link and an award this minute.


oops just blown a gasket in  machina  deux ex

Now DT I know you are particularly slow having a corrected IQ of only 117 (snickker)    so    i   w i l l     g   o        really  s    l     o    w.

"God in the machine" means "god in the machine" and thus for you flying pizzles actually means Your "tin pot god" IS a machine.
Get it? nano dick

Date: 2006/06/28 05:37:11, Link
Author: k.e
on DT's corrected IQ
He claims a score of 'x'
as a 21+ year old a 16 year olds SAT score.
You're smart enough to work it out.

Date: 2006/06/28 05:52:41, Link
Author: k.e
Oh seriously juju,

That sort of intellectual insult will just go right over their heads.

No, what you need to do is call them

....a hyper rationalistic over objectivarian, subjectivicious bunch of cowardly four legged mamailian wool carriers.

It will go down a treat.

Date: 2006/06/28 06:04:27, Link
Author: k.e

the two ugly sisters of zID were a class act.

 Almost up there with the The Aristocrats (joke)

Date: 2006/06/29 02:08:38, Link
Author: k.e
The GOP Youth will take over the world yet.

Gott mit uns.

Date: 2006/06/30 00:59:25, Link
Author: k.e
A lofty claim, but can you back it up with evidence?

I think he has a firm hand on it ( snickker), er the evidence that is (giggle), I mean in the same way IDers consider 'evidence' ;) , er a priori claims.

Date: 2006/06/30 02:14:36, Link
Author: k.e
Man we're one special creation

Yeah God (or as Frued pointed out man's God IS a projection ) is a weapon of mass destruction.

Date: 2006/06/30 03:47:07, Link
Author: k.e
George said:

Welcome to Windows ID.  Homo.

Give that man the AtBC gold miniature idiot award

Acceptance speech please George !!!

Date: 2006/06/30 04:22:59, Link
Author: k.e
Or sharks with laser beams in their (frickken) heads.

So, whom really was mini-me? Or No. 2.


Date: 2006/07/02 02:22:07, Link
Author: k.e
Gee, Air Fart Dave

You are doing a sterling job as the Fundy thought police there, proving the immense damage that American Christian Fundamentalism does, to what might otherwise be a potentially normal person.

Proof indeed, that the promoters of that insanity consider the minds of its followers just simple real estate to be owned, science is just “false memories” for them.

An independent observer (any god or devil will do, as a metaphysical equivalent) would rightly conclude that there is little difference between the state created manic social realism under the worlds last Stalinist Regime , North Korea and the decentralized manic social realism  of American Christian Fundamentalism.

Complete with low grade emotionally charged propaganda prepared in the Fundy equivalent of Orwell's  "Chestnut Tree Cafe" , misleading information presented as 'fact', 'cultural training' and indoctrination centers which receive their imprimatur,  their raison d'être from an all powerful superhuman (Kim Il Yung or his imaginary 'Big Brother' Fundy equivalent)

A power structure built on total subordination to dogma and censoring dissent. Under educated and brutish mechanistic party aparachiks   like D.T. who throw dissent down "memory holes".

Devoted commissars like A.F.D  who uncritically and mindlessly repeat the same old tired message endlessly.

Well continue on Air Fart “falsification of the past” suits you.

Those who have read '1984' by Orwell and place more value on what really happened in the past will remember the last line, Fundamentalists have succeeded in obliterating the past in their Jihadists minds.

For Fundy children their lives were stolen.

"oranges and lemons say the bells of St Clemens

Date: 2006/07/02 04:47:33, Link
Author: k.e
AFD you are a  triumph of disinformation.

A.F.D forget about the Fundy dystopia of '1984' being sometime in the future, the North Korean regime is almost a mirror copy of Orwell's commentary on the Post World War II western government of Oceania whose slogan was;

"'Who controls the past,' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.'"

Your parents implemented that scheme to great effect as witnessed by your 100 pages of denial of the past. Their fiction, their magical reality, their social constructivism has produced you, a man unable to determine fact from fiction.

... the Party controls the people by feeding them lies and narrowing their imaginations through a process of bewilderment and brutalization that alienates each individual from his fellows and deprives him of every liberating human pursuit from reasoned inquiry to sexual passion.

Did you know that the Republican Party uses a certain Frank Luntz who uses Orwell as his post Goebellian guide to 'better government'

Political language… is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind

That language is no different in Christian Fundamentalism which really is identity politics and has very little to do with religion, other than name.

Just by way of example AFD are you a Global Melt-Down skeptic ? take a look at this


Slamming the Climate Skeptic Scam
...political consultant Frank Luntz to the U.S. Republican Party. Luntz followed the [PR] rules: he did the research; he identified the soft spots in public opinion; and he made a clever critical judgment about which way the public could be induced to move.

In a section entitled "Winning the Global Warming Debate," Luntz says this (and all the points of emphasis are his own):

"The Scientific Debate Remains Open. Voters believe that there is no consensus about global warming within the scientific community. Should the public come to believe that the scientific issues are settled, their views about global warming will change accordingly. Therefore, you need to make the lack of scientific certainty a primary issue in the debate, and defer to scientists and other experts in the field."

If you download the memo and read the whole thing, you will notice that Luntz never expressly denies the validity of the science. In fact, he says, "The scientific debate is closing [against us] but is not yet closed."

" ... not yet closed"? Among those who disagree with that assessment are the 2,500 scientists in the IPCC, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences, the Royal Society of London and the Royal Society of Canada Donald Kennedy, editor-in-chief of Science magazine, says, "We're in the middle of a large uncontrolled experiment on the only planet we have." And to back up his sense of certainty, he reported that Science had analysed the 928 peer-reviewed climate studies published between 1993 and 2003 and found not a single one that disagreed with the general scientific consensus.

Journalists have consistently reported the updates from the best climate scientists in the world juxtaposed against the unsubstantiated raving of an industry-funded climate change denier - as if both are equally valid.
Notwithstanding, Luntz wrote: "There is still a window of opportunity to challenge the science." He recommended that his Republican Party clients do just that. He urged them to marshal their own "scientists" to contest the issue on every occasion. He urged them to plead for "sound science" a twist of language of the sort that George Orwell once said was "designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidarity to pure wind."

Luntz's goal - embraced with unnerving enthusiasm by the Bush Administration - is to manufacture uncertainty and to politicize science. Like all tragedy, it would be hilarious if you could play it for laughs.

It's an open question as to whether Luntz and company are being willfully blind or grossly negligent in the way they have ignored the science - and the potential catastrophic risks that they promote. But whichever way you cut it, their actions reflect badly on the whole public relations industry.

Conspiracy theorists will be happy to hear that I'm not suggesting that Frank Luntz or even a dubious cabal of ethics-free PR people are solely to blame for the public confusion on climate change. They have received extensive, if clumsy assistance from the media, which in a lazy and facile attempt to provide "balance" is willing to give any opinion equal time as long as it is firmly in contradiction with another.

Date: 2006/07/02 05:47:12, Link
Author: k.e
yeah there should be a disclaimer sticker on the cover of all bibles.

Now this has to the most useful snippet from AiG

Answers in Genesis (AiG) recently learned that the ACLU isn’t the only one comparing this Utah bill to the well-known Cobb County evolutionary disclaimer stickers. An AiG supporter informed us that the following sticker was found on the inside cover of a Gideon Bible in a Salt Lake City, Utah, hotel room. As you read this blasphemous sticker, compare its phrases to those found in the evolution sticker of Cobb County reprinted at the bottom.

“This book [the Bible] contains religious stories regarding the origin of living things. The stories are theories, not facts. They are unproven, unprovable and in some cases totally impossible. This material should be approached with an open mind and a critical eye towards logic and believability.”

Date: 2006/07/02 06:49:23, Link
Author: k.e
AFD is proving

the number one on this list :

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Just what are you AFD?

Other than a Fundy fruit loop, Christians do not bear false witness or do you sin all the way up to ecstasy, or whatever it is, and lie your way into heaven ?

Date: 2006/07/02 07:22:21, Link
Author: k.e
You forget, they had the best in the business the Thomas Moore Law Center (giggle)

Next Larry (the best internet lawyer in the whole world) will bring up the 50 other just plain wrong reasons they lost the case.

Hey DT.... here's some free advice, internet lawyers like Larry ..are to the law, what internet sex is to sex. IANAL

Date: 2006/07/02 21:09:35, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Air Fool Dave

You are doing a great job educating everyone about the huge holes in creationist nonsense propaganda (indirectly of course thanks to the other contributors).

If anyone is reading this and agrees with him, you need counseling, you have been a victim of a psychotic cult.

Date: 2006/07/03 07:49:57, Link
Author: k.e
Denial, Air Foot in Mouth Dave is NOT a river in Egypt.

Why do you continue to make a public fool of yourself?

Thank your brainwashers AFD, they have much done more than you realize.

BTW you are performing a wonderful service of showing just how dangerous Fundamentalism is.

You could seek professional help, do a google on cult deprogramming, if you dare.

Date: 2006/07/03 18:13:28, Link
Author: k.e
Quite so SteveS.

AFDave is doing far more than any of *one* of us could, to debunk Creationist propaganda, including their claim to some sort of moral high ground.

The thing about people who have been trained since birth to deny reality with a small library of stock phrases (which is all that is needed) and the final caveat of "If you feel the opposition are right, you will forever be doomed to ever lasting H3LL" is a very powerful psychological tool that actually hard wires their brain's neurons for permanent denial.

They are given an enemy for life and told that no moral rules apply to the way that enemy are dealt with.

Hardly Christian.

No ,in fact it is NOT Christian but just plain old identity politics, with ethics  no different to any totalitarian regime of the past.

That is why they want to move “The Law” from Rome to Jerusalem they then get to decide what “gods” laws are.

You only have to look in the old testament to see how powerful that propaganda is, the Priests made god into a dictator so they and their kings could rule with no opposition.

Every member of society becomes one of gods secret police and the whole nation a priestly gulag

Now the ironic thing is that to continue the charade actually makes its adherents technically insane, that is to say, not in connection with reality, a type of neurotic schizophrenia, like the people in the old  insane asylums who thought they were Napoleon or Jesus.

Except their social group with its shared delusion creates the impression for those inside its horizons, of sanity to them, its those outside who are insane by way of the shared delusion.

In other words to be a member of the group, you must suspend belief in reality.

Every action against their delusion makes them a greater martyr for the cause, a tool that is put to good use by their leaders. Simple identity politics, no religion needed.

In fact the central precepts of morality from religion MUST be re-defined as AMORAL, they are no longer capable of determining good from evil.

I can think of no other example that would better describe H3LL, than the place where AF Dave is right now. The pressure he must feel, must be enormous.

Date: 2006/07/04 08:40:46, Link
Author: k.e
Larry is 60 years old IIRC.

Brilliant video tho'

Date: 2006/07/05 04:41:58, Link
Author: k.e

AFD claims to be a "Free thinking Christian"

WRONG on both counts AFD is neither "Free thinking" nor "Christian".

Let me correct your "mis-statement" AFD.

Rigidly uncritical, unthinking and blind follower of a dangerous authoritarian anti-democratic politico-religious cult that hypocritically calls itself Christian

You claim to love Jesus AFD, but who do you love Jesus against?

By the way, did you know Mary wasn't the mother of god?

Yes, AFD you are free to think whatever your cult decides. Institutionalized Schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia is “any of a group of psychotic disorders usually characterized by withdrawal from reality, illogical patterns of thinking, delusions, hallucinations, accompanied in varying degrees by other emotional, behavioral, or intellectual disturbances. A condition that results from the coexistence of disparate, antagonistic qualities, identities, or activities” (

AFD  who said?

“How do you find a lion that has swallowed you?”

here is the answer to that question

“you can’t find or see that lion”—not as long as you are inside the beast.

For better mental and cultural health, it's time we classified religious fundamentalism as a psychological disorder

Date: 2006/07/05 07:58:37, Link
Author: k.e
Sure Air Fog Dave, I'll give you a break.
Look up "Fundamentalist Schizophrenia"; your sickness, and make no mistake that is what it is, is a well documented illness.

Date: 2006/07/06 06:24:38, Link
Author: k.e
This, coming from a guy who thinks the Himalayas were created in a couple thousand years.

This, coming from a guy who thinks the diversity of live on earth was magically created in a couple days.

Let's see, how did that go... Oh yes, "Buahahahahahahaha!"

Keep 'em coming dave.

Hair Fool Dave, when is your god comming to take you on your rapture cruise?

Do you get to take your computer with you?

Has anyone come back to tell you what it will be like?

What is your evidence for your postponed hope of rapture after death?

Date: 2006/07/08 05:08:05, Link
Author: k.e

On the contrary, it looks like Dave is actually a very confused (Christian fundamentalist ranter about atheists/liberals/activist judges, and so on) supporter of evolution

Poor unloved Herr dSS ....

How is Mommy and her Hairy Helper DT?

Brazil? anyone.

Date: 2006/07/08 07:58:34, Link
Author: k.e
Stevestory wrote
It's just part of the ID Creationists' strategy to argue that absolutely everything in Dover was exactly wrong.

It's kind of like the New York Knicks saying they would have won the championship this year, but all 17,834 calls were incorrectly decided.

To top that off nicely the IDolotars would rather the series be decided by a phone in poll by creobots.

They forget ONE THING the refs are appointed by SATAN.


Date: 2006/07/08 22:17:26, Link
Author: k.e
Nevertheless, I look forward to your [DT's] book or lengthy essay.

Check the length of THIS, Homo-DT

Date: 2006/07/12 00:37:04, Link
Author: k.e
re: "the designer has been somewhere else for 4 billion years"

Man..... I could do with a holiday like that.

Where does this guy collect his wages?

Was the pay office still open after 4 billion years or did he just have some good investments?

Just WTF WAS he doing all that time?

If he was so d@mn smart why didn't he just do it all at once like in Genesis?

I wouldn't trust him to be as sharp, after such a long time off.

On the otherhand the sleepy camel rustlers who made all this stuff up, could just have been pulling our legs.

The old ulterior motive and all that, trick the hoi poloi into an old god in the clouds scam and make off with the family jewels.

Date: 2006/07/12 05:49:52, Link
Author: k.e
Trust half a D*** to come up with a 130 year old discredited piece of wishful thinking.

Now 1/2 a D makes the plainly false rhetorical and therefore an an appeal to the truly stupid, claim by Biblical literalistists that the genealogy of the "One true word of FOG" proves (in a totally scienti-fickle sense u understand) that the age of DOF's world is around 6000 somethings, give or take, but if D divided by 2 actually did a  genealogy on every human on DOG's green rock he would find that the time line traces back to well over a 100,000 years otherwise Kane and Able would have to have had something like 500,000 children each.

Now I know in fractional D's world that is not an impossibility, but everyone should know that even though each man could theoretically impregnate every single women on earth with each ejaculation the reality is there are not enough boxes of chocolate and bottles of cheap wine that one man could accumulate in his short pre Christian life time to make that a certainty.

On the other hand (no pun intended..oh OK pun intended) if Kane was a Gene Simmonds look alike and he had a rock band and didn't wear condoms he may have been able to get it up, with a respectable frequency, producing a vast Asiatic and African offspring, but the returned rings and letters by village scribes may have shortened his romantic and thus procreatic career.

Date: 2006/07/12 05:57:28, Link
Author: k.e

GCT are you calling ME a lesbian ?...your so outta here HOMO-DT

Date: 2006/07/12 06:05:12, Link
Author: k.e
This might be the stupidest fucking thing ever posted to Uncommonly Dense.

Oh..... there's a scale of stupidity over there, is there?

For some reason I thought that was actually a requirement to run it...... and just to pass ID validty criteria, anywhere on that scale was a pass.

Date: 2006/07/12 06:13:59, Link
Author: k.e
The biggest problem with the American Talibans future is the lack of a common enemy to mobilize the masses.

They need more allies.

Now that the Afghani Taliban are gaining ground........ there is hope for them.

They will both be able to ban music, womens rights, education, homosexuals and kite flying yet.

Date: 2006/07/13 07:03:02, Link
Author: k.e

Abolute TRVTH ?????

hohohohohohohohoho hehehehehe

àáñîëþòíàÿ ÏÐÀÂÄÀ!!!

(Absolute Pravda!!!;)

Achtung, Sieg Heil Herr dSS...HEIL MEIN GOT  give us the truth your arse holiness.


The "One true word of ALLAH".... indeed defined by the the ignorant and stupid.

DT just loves to have smoke blown up his rectum by Dembski's sychophants.


With *science* like that they CAN'T lose .....just like all those other re-definers of  àáñîëþòíàÿ ÏÐÀÂÄÀ through history, like Goebbles (a devout Christian by his own account) ,  and all the other Ayatollah wannabes.

Today THE TRVTH tomorrow democracy. ( or the next best thing re-define THE TRVTH via SOCUS)

Ah....I love to watch Fundies go up in smoke.

Date: 2006/07/13 07:15:18, Link
Author: k.e
Wot ? no cyrillic support ?

oh well if you wanted to see what it really looked like

enter "the absolute Pravda" here

Russian translator

Date: 2006/07/13 07:35:46, Link
Author: k.e
Richard ...Dave is so smart that he doesn't need to read Scientific American....he already knows more than all the scientists who write for it.

He knows there is "The Absolute Pravda" no science (the best system designed by Homo Erectus as a test for truth) or any test needed.

Just slap your head and it's JUST SO OBVIOUS!!!

The recieved wisdom of the "one true word of DT" sci-un-tifical model is perfect because it perfectly fits the world as DT wants to see it.

His model  even has an auto self deconbobulation modulator, whenever someone says evil-oo-shun explains the living world as it is (or was) his mind is automatically rearranged to deny it. and promote his lesbian loving, flag waving, religionistas.

Ah ...Davey dude  all the 120 years or so you have been reading Sci-Am where did it say they found evidence for DT's demon?

Date: 2006/07/13 07:56:04, Link
Author: k.e
Arden said:
Actually, Goebbels was raised VERY Catholic, and he carried heavy Catholic influences his whole life, but I think around the 1930's or so, he Left the Church and never went back. (Something his boss never did.)

From here.

Goebbels 1928 Knowledge is Power speach


Background: This is to my mind one of Goebbels' most interesting speeches. It was given on 9 January 1928 to an audience of party members at the so-called "Hochschule für Politik," a series of training talks for party members in Berlin. It is Goebbels' most extended discussion of the nature of propaganda, all the more interesting because of its early date.

The source: "Erkenntnis und Propaganda," Signale der neuen Zeit. 25 ausgewählte Reden von Dr. Joseph Goebbels (Munich: Zentralverlag der NSDAP., 1934), pp. 28-52.


Knowledge and Propaganda

by Joseph Goebbels


My dear fellow party members!

Our theme this evening is hotly disputed. I realize that my viewpoint is subjective. There is really little point to discussing propaganda. It is a matter of practice, not of theory. One cannot determine theoretically whether one propaganda is better than another. Rather, that propaganda is good that has the desired results, and that propaganda is bad that does not lead to the desired results. It does not matter how clever it is, for the task of propaganda is not to be clever, its task is to lead to success. I therefore avoid theoretical discussions about propaganda, for there is no point to it. Propaganda shows that it is good if over a certain period it can win over and fire up people for an idea. If it fails to do so, it is bad propaganda. If propaganda wins the people it wanted to win, it was presumably good, and if not, it was presumably bad. No one can say that your propaganda is too crude or low or brutal, or that it is not decent enough, for those are not the relevant criteria. Its purpose is not to be decent, or gentle, or weak, or modest; it is to be successful. That is why I have intentionally chosen to discuss propaganda along with a second theme, knowledge. Otherwise, our discussion this evening would be of little value. We have not gathered to discuss lovely theories, but rather to find ways of practically working together to deal with our everyday challenges.

What is propaganda, and what role does it have in political life? That is the question of greatest interest to us. How should propaganda look, and what is its role in our movement? Is it an end in itself, or only a means to an end? We must discuss that, but we can do that only when we begin with the origin of propaganda itself, namely the idea, then move to the target of propaganda, namely people.

Ideas in themselves are timeless. They are not tied to individuals, much less to a people. They rest in a people, it is true, and affect their attitudes. Ideas, people say, are in the clouds. When someone comes along who can put in words what everyone feels in their hearts, each feels: "Yes! That is what I have always wanted and hoped for." That is what happens the first time one hears one of Hitler's major speeches. I have met people who had attended a Hitler meeting for the first time, and at the end they said: "This man put in words everything I have been searching for for years. For the first time, someone gave form to what I want." Others are lost in confusion, but suddenly someone stands up and puts it in words. Goethe's words become reality: "Lost in silent misery, God gave someone to express my suffering."

Some kind of idea is at the beginning of every political movement. It is not necessary to put this idea in a thick book, nor that it take political form in a hundred long paragraphs. History proves that the greatest world movements have always developed when their leaders knew how to unify their followers under a short, clear theme. That is clear from the French Revolution, or Cromwell's movement, or Buddhism, Islam, or Christianity. Christ's goal was clear and simple: "Love your neighbor as yourself." He gathered his followers behind that straightforward statement. Because this teaching was simple, crisp, clear, and understandable, enabling the broad masses to stand behind it, it in the end conquered the world.

One then builds a whole system of thought on such a brief, crisply formulated idea. The idea does not remain limited to this single statement, rather it is applied to every aspect of daily life and becomes the guide for all human activity — politics, culture, the economy, every area of human behavior. It becomes a worldview. We see that in all great revolutionary movements, which begin with a clear, crisp, understandable, all-encompassing idea. They spread more and more and become a mirror of life that reflects all activities of the peoples, and indeed in a particular way.

Then one can say that a person has a worldview—not because he knows a lot or has read a lot—but because he sees all of life from a certain standpoint, and measures everything by a certain standard. I am a Christian when I believe that the meaning of my life is the heavy responsibility to love my neighbor as myself. .
Kant once said: "Act as if the principle of your life could be the principle for your entire nation." I am a National Socialist not when I want this or that from politics, rather when I consider all aspects of daily life. I must act in all things by putting the good of the whole above my personal good, by putting the good of the state above my personal good. But then I also have the guarantee that such a state will be able to protect my personal life. I am a National Socialist when I see everything in politics, culture or the economy from this standpoint. I therefore do not evaluate the theater from the standpoint of whether it is elegant or amusing, rather I ask: Is it good for my people, is it useful for them, does it strengthen the community? If so, the community in turn can benefit, support and strengthen me. I do not see the economy as some sort of way of making money, rather I want an economy that will strengthen the people, make them healthy and powerful. Then too I can expect that this people will support and maintain me. If I see things in this way, I see the economy in National Socialist terms.

If I develop this crisp, clear idea into a system of thought that includes all human drives, wishes and actions, I have a worldview.

As an idea develops into a worldview, the goal is the state. The knowledge does not remain the property of a certain group, but fights for power. It is not just the fantasy of a few people among the people, rather it becomes the idea of the rulers, the circles that have power. The view does not only preach, but it is carried out in practice. Then the idea becomes the worldview of the state. The worldview has become a government organism when it seizes power and can influence life not only in theory, but in practical everyday life.

Now we must consider who is the carrier, the transmitter, the guardian of such ideas. An idea always lives in individuals. It seeks an individual to transmit its great intellectual force. It becomes alive in a brain, and seeks escape through the mouth. The idea is preached by individuals, individuals who will never be satisfied to have the knowledge remain theirs alone. You know that from experience. When one knows something one does not keep it hidden like a buried treasure, but rather one seeks to tell others. One looks for people who should know it. One feels that everyone else should know as well, for one feels alone when no one else knows. For example, if I see a beautiful painting in an art gallery, I have the need to tell others. I meet a good friend and say to him: "I have found a wonderful picture. I have to show it to you." The same is true of ideas. If an idea lives in an individual, he has the urge to tell others. There is some mysterious force in us that drives us to tell others. The greater and simpler the idea is, the more it relates to daily life, the more one has the desire to tell everyone about it.

If I believe that the nation must be governed by the principle that the common good comes before the individual good, I will tell it to those to whom it applies. As soon as I realize that this principle is not only of a transcendental nature, but that it applies to daily life, I have the need to tell it to those in the economic world. And if I see it applies to culture as well, I have the need to tell it to those people involved in cultural activities. The great masses will never be won simply by such a sentence; it must cast its shadow over all areas of human life.

You see how an idea spreads and becomes a worldview, and how the bearer, the individual, reaches out to form a community, and how an organization, then a movement grows from the individual. The idea is no longer buried in the heart and mind of an individual. Now there are four, five, ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, eighty, a hundred, and ever more. That is the secret of ideas; they are like a wildfire that cannot be restrained. They are like a gas that seeps through everything. Where an idea finds entry, it enters, and soon that person is influencing others. The others cannot stop it. They may believe they can stop the fire by force. They may even be able to do so for two, or ten, twenty, or fifty years. But that is not significant in the larger course of world history. It is irrelevant if something happens today or tomorrow, or even years in the future.

It is possible to slow an idea by force for a certain period of time. In reality, however, that advances the idea, for force drives out that which is weak. The elements that do not really belong collapse. Suddenly, the individual becomes a community, a movement, or if you prefer, a party.

Each movement begins as a party. That does not mean it has to follow the methods of parliamentary parties. We see a party as a part of the people. As an idea spreads, becoming a worldview that spreads to the community, the community will want to give the idea practical form. The party will feel the necessity to organize. Someone will suddenly have the idea: "You think the way I think. You are working over there, I am working here, and we know nothing of each other. That is absurd. It would be better if we worked together, if I did my part and you did yours. Would it not be good if we met every month and talked?" That is an organization. Gradually, a strong organism develops, a party ready to fight for its ideals. A party that does not want that will indeed continue to preach its ideals, but will never bring them into reality.

A recent example may help. Our movement is often accused of losing its character as a movement. We are accused of taking the vast, broad and ever-moving system of thought of the völkisch movement and forcing it into a Procrustean bed. We supposedly had to chop of the legs of the movement that stuck out, eliminating important parts of the völkisch idea. National Socialism is only a surrogate for the real movement, some say. In fact, the völkisch movement ran aground on this matter. Each declares his own particular interest central to the völkisch movement, and accuses anyone who does not share his views as being a traitor to the cause. That is the way the völkisch movement was before the war. If someone had been able to take this great idea — and the völkisch idea was greater than the Marxist idea — and develop out of it a tightly disciplined political organization, then the völkisch idea, not the Marxist idea, would have won on 9 November [1918]. Marxism won because it had a better understanding of political conditions, because it had forged the sword it would later use to conquer the state. If a völkisch organizer had understood how to form a great movement — it is a question of life or death for our nation — the völkisch idea, not Marxism, would have won, It was a worldview, but it did not understand how to form a party and how to forge the sharp sword that would have enabled it to conquer the state.

The state needs a worldview. Christianity also conquered the state, and in the moment that it conquered the state it began to carry out practical political activity. You can with justice claim: "Yes, but at the moment Christianity took over the state, it began to cease being Christian." That is the tragedy of all great ideas. At the moment they enter the realm of this life of sin, of the all-too-human, they leave the heavens and lose their romantic magic. They become something normal. We are not discussing whether or not one can change the nature of life. Things have gone on this way for millions of years, and will go on in the same way for millions more. You will have to ask a higher power why that is so. At the moment an idea takes practical form, it loses its angel's wings, its romantic mystery. If someone had had the courage to strip the völkisch idea of its romantic mystery, if one had taken account of the hard facts, it would not look as romantic today as it does to some dreamers. But it would have kept millions of German children from starving. For me, it is more important that a nation lives than that an idea remains as pure as possible in the heads of a few dreamers.

You can see that a movement needs an organization if it is to conquer the state — and it must conquer the state if it wants to do something of positive and historic significance. I have often met the kind of wandering apostle who says: "Well, everything you are doing is fine, but you really must also take a stand against foreign words in the German language." And another comes along who says: "Well, everything you say is good, but you must have a point in your program that says alleopathy is dangerous, and you must support homepathy." If the movement were led by such apostles, the Jew would end up in charge. The Jew would find something new every day until nothing was left. It is not the task of a revolutionary fighting movement to settle the dispute between alleopathy and homeopathy, rather its task is to take power. The movement must have a program such that every honest fighter can stand behind it. Now, it is certainly true that the modern German cultural establishment produces every manner of nonsense. I know that this nonsense is poisoning the German national soul. There are those who say: "Something has to happen. You have to do something. If you want to fight the movie industry, you must build your own theater, even if it at first has only the most primitive equipment. And if you see that the children are being poisoned by what they read in school, you must begin to win children's souls and give them the antidote." My reply is simple: You can spend ten years giving the antidote to the poison that is produced by a badly led cultural establishment, but a single decree from the Ministry of Culture can destroy all your work. If you had spent that ten years winning fighters for the movement, the movement would have conquered the Ministry of Culture! Everything else is mere piecework.

If a movement wins political power, it can do those positive things it wants to do. Only then does it have the power to protect its accomplishments. At the moment a movement or party wins control of the state, its worldview becomes the state and its party becomes the nation. The nation is not the 60 million people who live in it. That is a confused mixture. One says yea, the other nay. That is not a nation. A nation is characterized by consciousness. Instinct alone is not enough. Only when I am aware that I am a member of the nation, when I am consciously a German, do I belong to the German people. The Great Elector did not say: "Think and remember that you are a German." Rather, he said: "Consider well that you are a German." Consideration is at the level of consciousness. Such consciousness belongs to the entire nation. Adolf Hitler rightly answered the court in Munich in this way when he was asked: "How could you think of establishing a dictatorship over 60 million with such a tiny minority?" His reply: "If an entire nation has become cowardly, and there are only a thousand left who want something great, and who have to power to transform the state, then these thousand people are the nation." If the others let a minority conquer the state, then they must also accept the fact that we will establish a dictatorship.

The same is true of a movement. If a movement has the strength to take over the state, than it has the power to transform the state. I am the last to complain that the Marxists rule us today. As long as we do not have the strength to overcome them, they have the political right to rule us. I am surprised how little they use that right. I would do things differently. That is their tragic misunderstanding of their own worldview. I do not complain that the gentlemen of the Berlin Police use their power against us, only that they call themselves democrats and claim that they allow freedom of thought and of speech. That is nonsense. That is lying hypocrisy, for in truth these gentlemen are dictators.

If a movement has the strength to take over government positions of power, then it has the right to form the government as it wishes. Anyone who disagrees is a foolish theoretician. Politics is governed not by moral principles, but by power. If a movement conquers the state, it has the right to form the state. You can see how these three elements combine ideals and personalities. The idea leads to a worldview, the worldview to the state, the individual becomes a party, the party becomes the nation.

The important thing is not to find people who agree with me about every theoretical jot and tittle, but rather that I find people who are willing to fight with me for a worldview. Winning people over to something that I have recognized as right, that is what we call propaganda. At first there is knowledge; it uses propaganda to find the manpower that will transform knowledge into politics. Propaganda stands between the idea and the worldview, between the worldview and the state, between the individual and the party, between the party and the nation. At the moment at which I recognize something as important and begin speaking about it in the streetcar, I begin making propaganda. At the same moment, I begin looking for other people to join me. Propaganda stands between the one and the many, between the idea and the worldview. Propaganda is nothing other than the forerunner to organization. Once it has done this, it is the forerunner to state control. It is always a means to an end.

Although I must hold unshakably and unalterably to the idea, propaganda adjusts itself to the prevailing conditions. Propaganda is always flexible. It says different things here than it does there. It cannot be polished, laminated and stuffed; rather it must occupy the space between the one and the many. I talk differently on the streetcar with the conductor than I do with a businessman. If I did not, the businessman would think I was crazy and the streetcar conductor would not understand me. That means propaganda cannot be limited. It changes according to whom I am trying to reach. Let me tell a good story about a party member in Berlin who since 1919 has promoted the National Socialist idea. At first, he beat his head bloody against a wall that we want to avoid. He began by distributing the wildest anti-Semitic publications on the street. He knew it was bad stuff, but there was nothing better, so he read these books or newspapers in the subway. Everyone could see that he was a harmless crank, and when he stood up and left his newspapers behind, someone regularly would say: "Sir, take your newspaper along with you." He would angrily take his paper and leave it with the conductor, saying: "Here, German brother." And the conductor certainly thought he came from the nuthouse. He gradually realized that the methods that worked with friends and comrades do not work with strangers.

In other words, there is no ABC of propaganda. One can make propaganda, or one cannot. Propaganda is an art. Any reasonably normal person can learn to play the violin to a certain degree, but then his teacher will say: "This is as far as it goes. Only a genius can learn what remains. You are not a genius, so be content with what you have learned." I can certainly teach any reasonable person the absolute basics of propaganda. But I will soon recognize the limits. One is either a propagandist, or one is not. It is wrong to look down on a propagandist. There are people who say a propagandist is merely a good drummer. This displays a certain envy and lack of ability. They are mostly mediocre philosophers whom the masses ignore. You have seen often enough — no one can deny it — that our movement has good speakers. Since our opponents do not have good speakers, they say: "Well, they are only good drummers." Hitler was called the "Drummer of National Unity" for five years. When they realized that this drummer had ideas that didn't fit into their way of thinking, he was suddenly a "crazy politician" who had to be dealt with. It is foolish to look down on propagandists. The propagandist has a certain role within the party. It is good for our young movement that we are young and lacking in really great leaders — though naturally not in comparison to other parties. The great leaders we have cannot stick to a particular area, but must be able to do everything. They must be propagandists, organizers, speakers, writers, etc. They must be able to get along with people, find money, write articles, and a lot more. That is why it is wrong to say that Hitler is merely a drummer. That is what is great about him, and what separates him from everyone else. He is a politician, and also a propagandist, while the leaders of other parties understand neither politics nor propaganda. You can see how propaganda relates to the worldview and to the organization. After we have finished the hard work of moving the idea and the worldview from the individuals to the masses, propaganda has the task of taking the knowledge of the mass and enabling it to take over the state.

Let me give an example.

What good would it do if everything we know to be right stayed in our few heads! The few would doubt the rightness of the idea, since they would see that no one was joining them. And if we did not have the people — from the lowliest S.A. man who distributes newspapers to the best speaker, or the leader of the party, all our lovely knowledge would be useless, for only we would know it. The others would continue their nonsense, and the German people in the end would perish.

Propaganda is absolutely necessary, even if it is only a means to an end. Otherwise, the idea could never take over the state. I must be able to get what I think important across to many people. The task of a gifted propagandist is to take that which many have thought and put it in a way that reaches everyone from the educated to the common man. You will all grant me this, and as further evidence I can recall a Hitler speech in Jena. Half the audience were Marxists, half students and university professors. I had a burning desire to speak with both elements afterwards. I could see that the university professor and the average man had understood what Hitler said. That is the greatness of our movement, that it can use language to reach the broad masses.

Of course, the style will vary according to the speaker. It would be a big mistake to expect everyone to treat the idea in the same way, for as great as it is, so different are the individuals who are to be reached by it. You will surely hear some people say that they like one speaker, while others prefer another. It would be a mistake to try to make the soft-spoken speaker into a thundering orator, or a thundering orator into a soft-spoken chap. Neither would accomplish anything. The soft-spoken speaker would never reach the heart no matter how hard he tried, nor would the thundering orator succeed in speaking quietly. Everyone would go home dissatisfied. The bigger our movement gets, the more kinds of people it can house, and each will reflect the movement a little differently. No two things in God's world are alike. Everything is a little different. Thus one person reflects things differently than another.

As propaganda draws an ever-growing following to the idea, the idea broadens, becomes more flexible. It no longer stays in a few heads, but wants to include everything. At that moment it becomes a comprehensive program. We can happily see that that is the case in our movement. You will never find millions of people willing to die for a book. But millions of people are willing to die for a gospel, and our movement is becoming more and more a gospel. All that we have come to know in our individual lives is joining to form a great faith that lives unshakably in our hearts. Each of us is willing, if necessary, to give his all for it. No one is willing to die for the 8-hour day. But people are willing to die so that Germany will belong to the Germans. What Adolf Hitler prophesied in 1919 is becoming clearer every day: "Freedom and Prosperity!" The movement is increasingly freeing itself from the all too human, and becoming a powerful force. The time is coming when people will not ask us what we think about the 8-hour day; but rather when Germany is seized with desperation they will ask: "Can you give us back faith?" If a movement has brought the idea from the individual to a worldview, building in the end a clear gospel for which each is ready to die, that movement is near victory. That does not happen in the study, but rather in battle, in bitter battle each day with the enemy, bringing him to see how he has led the nation down the wrong path. I must say that I learn the most from reading the "Berliner Tageblatt" [A newspaper hostile to the Nazis]. That is a fine example of the Jews at work. From the Jewish standpoint, I've never noted a single mistake, whereas the nationalist papers make mistakes all the time.

I now want to outline the essential characteristics of propaganda. We have already agreed that propaganda is not an end in itself, but a means to an end. Its task is to spread the knowledge of National Socialism to the people, or to a part of the people. If propaganda does that, it is good; if not, it is bad. The German Nationalists claimed that Hitler's propaganda before 9 November 1923 was too loud, too noisy, too popular. Hitler replied: "Munich must become National Socialist. If I achieve that my propaganda will have been good. If I had wanted to make you happy, it would have been bad. But that was not my intention." You cannot evaluate propaganda in midcourse, but rather you have to wait until it reaches its maker's goal. You cannot say that our propaganda was wrong because the government banned it. That is false. Under Jewish police officials, our propaganda would be wrong if it were not banned, for that means it would be harmless, The fact that it is banned is the best evidence that we are dangerous. If the ban is lifted, do not come to me and say that the Jew has seen the error of his ways. It will be lifted when the Jew sees that it is not achieving his purpose. You can say what you want. The Jew will put away his dagger only when he sees that it is better not to use it against a propaganda method, or when he sees that the dagger has already done its duty.

Success is the important thing. Propaganda is not a matter for average minds, but rather a matter for practitioners. It is not supposed to be lovely or theoretically correct. I do not care if I give wonderful, aesthetically elegant speeches, or speak so that women cry. The point of a political speech is to persuade people of what we think right. I speak differently in the provinces than I do in Berlin, and when I speak in Bayreuth, I say different things than I say in the Pharus Hall [A meeting hall the Nazis often used in Berlin]. That is a matter of practice, not of theory.We do not want to be a movement of a few straw brains, but rather a movement that can conquer the broad masses. Propaganda should be popular, not intellectually pleasing. It is not the task of propaganda to discover intellectual truths. I find them by thinking, or at my desk, anywhere but in a meeting hall. That is where I transmit them. I do not enter the meeting hall to discover intellectual truths, but to persuade others of what I think to be right. I learn methods there that I can use to reach others with what I have found to be right. The speaker or propagandist must first understand the idea. He cannot do that in the middle of making propaganda. He must start with it. Through daily contact with the masses, he learns how to communicate that idea. It is not the task of propaganda to discover knowledge, but to transmit knowledge. It must adjust to those it wishes to reach with that knowledge. The propagandist's speeches or posters that are aimed at farmers will be different than those aimed at employers; those aimed at doctors will be different than those aimed at patients. He will adjust his propaganda to fit those he is speaking to. You can see that all the critical standards used by other parties to evaluate propaganda miss the point, and that most complaints about the NSDAP's propaganda result from a false understanding of propaganda. If someone tells me: "Your propaganda has no civilized standards," I know there is no point in even talking with him.

It makes no difference if propaganda is at a high level. The question is whether it reached its goal. My first goal when I came to Berlin was to make the city aware of us. They could love us or hate us, as long as they knew who we were. We have reached that goal. We are hated and loved. When someone hears the term National Socialist, he does not ask: "What is that?" Once we have reached the first goal, we can work on turning hate to love and love to hate, but never to indifference. The battle against indifference is the hardest battle. There may be two million people in this city who hate my guts, who persecute and slander me, but I know that I can win over some of them. We know that from experience. Some of those who persecuted us and fought most bitterly against us are today our most determined supporters. You see that the important thing for propaganda is that it reach its goal, and that it is a mistake to apply critical standards that are irrelevant.

Let me give another example. If someone asks me what I think of another person, it is silly for me to say: "I like him, but he cannot play the piano." The answer will be: "So what? He is a corporate lawyer. Why don't you see if he is good at what he does?" That is a good answer. And it applies just as well to propaganda.

Our propaganda follows a clear line. Adolf Hitler once told me that it is not necessary to give a programmatic speech to a public meeting. The public meeting requires the most primitive approach. If the fine gentlemen say: "You are only a propagandist," the answer is this: "Was Christ any different? Did he not make propaganda? Did he write books, or did he preach? Was Mohammed any different? Did he write learned essays, or did he go to the people and say what he wanted to say? Were not Buddha and Zarathustra propagandists?" True, the philosophers of the French Revolution built their intellectual foundations. But who got things moving? Robespierre, Danton, and the others. Did these men write books, or did they speak in popular meetings? Look around today. Is Mussolini more an author or a great speaker? When Lenin took the train from Zurich to Petersburg, did he repair to his study and write a book, or did he speak to thousands? Fascism and Bolshevism were built by great speakers, by masters of the spoken word! There is no difference between the politician and the speaker. History proves that great politicians were always great speakers: Napoleon, Caesar, Alexander, Mussolini, Lenin, name whomever you want. They were all great speakers and great organizers. If a person combines rhetorical talent, organizational ability, and philosophical ability, if he has the ability to transmit knowledge and to gather people under his banner, then he is a brilliant statesman.

If someone tells me today: "You are a demagogue," I answer him in this way: "Demagogy in the good sense is simply the ability to get the masses to understand what I want them to understand." Of course, I can adjust to the feelings of the broad masses, which is demagogy in the bad sense. Then I change not only the form of what I want to say, but also the content.

You cannot tell me that things have changed. Formerly, speakers built movements; today we live in the age of the press, and it is the writers who are influential. This theory is obviously false. Of course the press is important. But if you examine well-written editorials, they turn out to be speeches in disguise. The Marxists did not win through their editorials, but rather because each Marxist editorial was a little propaganda speech. They were written by agitators. They sat in their offices or in smoke-filled bars, writing not elegant, intellectual and polished essays, but rather brutal, direct words that the average man understood. That is why the masses devoured the Red press. We must learn from their example. Marxism did not win because it had great prophets — they had none. Marxism won because its nonsense was promoted by agitators of the ability of August Bebel and Lenin. They led Marxism to victory. If the völkisch movement had had such agitators at its disposal, its stronger intellectual foundations would surely have led it to victory. Some critics complain: "All you do is criticize! You only complain. You can't do things any better yourselves!" Others say that "the Angriff [Goebbels's newspaper in Berlin] is entirely negative. Say something positive for a change." Well, I am not in a position to say anything positive about Isidor Weiss [the Jewish Vice Chief of Police in Berlin, and a regular Goebbels target]. I can only be negative. And there is nothing positive I can say about the Republic. There is nothing positive about it. I can say something positive only when I eliminate the negative. The most brilliant statesman on earth could do nothing with this Republic. And Marxism preached only the negative for sixty years. The result was that it took over the state on 9 November 1918. Hitler once said: "Keep those know-it-alls who always want to do something positive away from me." We can do something positive only when we have first gotten rid of the negative. A leader does not emerge from a conference table. He develops from the masses, and the more a true leader rises from the masses, the more he draws the masses to him. The mass is the weak, cowardly, lazy majority of people. One can never entirely win the broad mass. The best elements from the mass must be put in a form where they can be victorious. That is the task of a brilliant mind. We thank fate that it has given us one of these minds, a mind superior to all others, whom we willingly serve. That is the proof that we will win. If others find their wisdom in majority rule, but a movement is led by one person, that movement will win. When it wins is irrelevant. It will win because that is the way things are. Look around as much as you want. You will everywhere see our movement's intellectual foundations.

The task of the leaders and followers is to drive this knowledge ever deeper into the hearts of our shattered nation. Each must make that clear, each must think things through. Everything we do must be clear. We will never give up. If everything is clear, one does not have to be an outstanding speaker. If he can say it all in a few words, he is a propagandist. If we have an army of such propagandists, from the littlest to the Führer himself, and if each spreads our crystal-clear knowledge to the masses, the day will come which our worldview takes over the state, when our organization seizes the reins of power, when we are no longer members of a slave colony, but rather citizens of a political state that we ourselves have formed.

That is our task on this planet: to create the foundation on which our people can live. When we do that, this nation will create works of culture that will endure for eons in world history!

[Page copyright © 1999 by Randall Bytwerk. No unauthorized reproduction. My email address is available on the FAQ page.]

Where did Herr Goebbels get his ideas from?

Just replace "National Socialism" with "Religious Fundamenatlism" and it all fits into place.

Date: 2006/07/13 08:21:36, Link
Author: k.e
"Great  Scott" did you see that Davey boy ?

That's 1.3 gods-per-comment or gpcs.

How many gods do you have over there DT?

Steve I'm going to make the radical proposal each poster on Uncommon Denominators has 1.3 gods PER PERSON.

Bloody greedy their gods are, eh?

Date: 2006/07/13 08:33:25, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah Arden.

The old radicals worked out that to get their adgenda implemented they had to 'convert'. I know some of the neocons were old lefties. They figured the best way to have social realism was to hitch the fundy wagon to the GOP and the power would be all theirs.

Now don't PANIC

Project for the New American Century

Date: 2006/07/13 20:40:54, Link
Author: k.e
Oh heal be Baaaaack. (time wounds all heals)

He's got the time and Lordee knows he needs wounding.

Date: 2006/07/14 02:41:01, Link
Author: k.e
Davetard bragged once that the thread about him was the biggest at AtBC. How's he going to feel in a few months when that honor is usurped by AFDave, a man so dumb he makes Salvador look smart?

Ha !

Well of course his infinite stupidity is eminently reflected by the length of this thread.

Some how when AFD-tard returns from his vacation to Hovind's 'fantasy land' DT is likely to be usurped for title of the worlds most ignorant person to contribute to a blog.

Just looking at the pages per day rate for AFD I predict that he will overtake DT in the race for IDiot Creationist of the century award.

Heck DT is just such a girl compared to AFD when it comes to producing ridiculous drivel.

DT get on your bike man, you're lead is slipping.

How about fiddling the creationist talking points on carbon dating and 'flud geology' so it looks like you are actually doing something sci-un-tifical an' all that.

.........oh that's right you already have a heap of creationist pseudo-science talking points

.....Dembskian maths

....what was that about the infinite wave thingy again?

Or the Special Gaff  Predictor(SGP)....where every time he opens his mouth his foot finds its way in there.

Or the other one ..what was it? Composite Thinking Syndrome (CTS) where all the IDiots are 'so open' to 'new  ideas' (read..simple relativist postmodern nonsense) that their brains fall out.

I blame nonsense feminist anti-science and country music.

(well someone has to take the blame ...snicker)

Postmodern woolly thinking with simple platitudes..... to a 3  chord bar.

Date: 2006/07/15 03:46:19, Link
Author: k.e

Hannah Maxon...I wonder if she's pansexual?

SCordova (who IIRC thought Eugenie Scott was Hot! on PT when Sal flamed out late last year and was well and truly skewered over WADsian Wank...)

coff coff offense to ES, she's more my age group and we have both seen better days of 'hotness' ..oh and they were VERY 'hot' days.
Well she did ruffle his feathers at some  *ahem* 'debate' late last year, so he seems easily flattered by simple bon mots and a magnanimous smile.

Well, Sal is now crudely trundling his eye to someone more his own age. Although I think Sal's boat left long ago as far as she is concerned.

What Sancho Cordova now needs to do is actually listen to what Ms. Maxon is saying...
What I remember most from that evening is that he[Behe] gave a reasoned, scientific presentation and an even-toned response to all his critics, and they –many of whom had lost their cool before the evening was half over– had primarily arguments from emotion. Maybe only arguments from emotion; as far as a remember, no sound logical or scientific critique was presented that night. Sal Panza to Count Bill Quixote( and mini-me Dave Scott Springer) you should note Ms. Triple Major correctly pointed out Dembski's doppleganger Quixote , Behe Presented NO SCIENCE at a public parade of Pride and Prejudice DESIGNED to elicit an EMOTIONAL response;
Which she has projected as postmodernist equal time for stupid ideas. Like I said, blame country music and feminism.

That's the beauty of the Fundy propaganda machine, tell the big lie and count the money..oh and the power and the fame except if you are Sancho Panza-Cordova..... in which case, just suck up to minor celebrity for a share of the glory and maybe wear red leather jacket.

Well if you can't screw 'em at least get in the same photo.

As has been shown on the witness stand in Dover, the FINAL whistle has been blown on ID. Its ALL OVER.

McNeil is just playing with a dead mouse, hey why should we have all the fun?

Behe and Dembki both ALREADY have gone down in history the dusty annals of of crazy guys in crazy places as a couple of dunces, doctorates and all.

"In a place in La Mancha, whose name I do not want to recall, there dwelt not so long ago a gentleman of the type wont to keep an unused lance, an old shield, a greyhound for racing, and a skinny old horse."

Date: 2006/07/16 04:43:38, Link
Author: k.e
Circular reasoning ---?-?


I just love it when Fundies open their mouths and put their foot in it.

Fallacy: Begging the Question


Also Known as: Circular Reasoning, Reasoning in a Circle, Petitio Principii.

Description of Begging the Question
Begging the Question is a fallacy in which the premises include the claim that the conclusion is true or (directly or indirectly) assume that the conclusion is true. This sort of "reasoning" typically has the following form.

Premises in which the truth of the conclusion is claimed or the truth of the conclusion is assumed (either directly or indirectly).
Claim C (the conclusion) is true.
This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim. This is especially clear in particularly blatant cases: "X is true. The evidence for this claim is that X is true."

Some cases of question begging are fairly blatant, while others can be extremely subtle.

Examples of Begging the Question

Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

More here if you're game Daft-ave

Presuppositional apologetics

You seem to forget d/2 the geological record is one of the best studied areas of science due to the HUGE body of data collected by ...wait for it...Fossil Fuel companies, through drill cores and seismic exploration.
That is what they call evidence which proves the model for the age of the earth and guess what R1d/2? it's a lot older than what some god crazy yanks think it is.

You will note they do not pay for:



and "FLUD" pseudo science trash.

Try driving around if they did make the mistake of using stupid colour diagrams designed to separte fools (That's you AFDim Bulb) from their money. In fact they wouldn't even get that far.

Any company that tried would be hauled up by their shareholders and the stockexchange for fraud quicker than you could say "Enron".

Date: 2006/07/16 04:53:14, Link
Author: k.e
Oh and by the way diminutive D, if your suposition is right why do we need pastors?

Date: 2006/07/16 05:31:21, Link
Author: k.e
AFD the evidence is in, your pathetic colour chart put out by a crank is NOT EVIDENCE.

How are fossils created AFD?

or were they 'put there' (giggle)

And why the appeal to false logic all of a sudden?

A sense of guilt, perhaps?

You do not even know what circular reasoning is, you are playing beyond your logical capabilities.

It would be much safer to stick to crackpot pseudo science and give up trying to be all intellectual and such, that way you won't get hurt.

Date: 2006/07/16 06:57:03, Link
Author: k.e
AFD you quiet plainly do not understand that
inexcusable means professional misconduct and fallacious means deliberately lying.

Date: 2006/07/16 18:43:56, Link
Author: k.e
Alan hehehe

Sal seems of indeterminate age there, I'm guessing he's around 25-30 years old from his boasting on PT as some sort of minor technocrat in corporation amerika. Ms Triple Major would be 19-21 at most?
With a very bright future in the mating stakes, even if it is only with some Fundy nutter. I would hazard a guess that her plans include someone richer, taller and better looking
than Sal Rocinante , hi ho.
If *I* was Sal I would only praise her AFTER having mounted the beast and even then only if I was planning a human zoo with her.
But not Sal no, champion of lost causes ,with lost souls.

Date: 2006/07/17 03:10:14, Link
Author: k.e
Hi Louis, I'm jealous of the skeptics drinkathon but NOT meeting Mr Fullofit.

It does sound like the kind of place that would take some serious work to get thrown out of tho'....hehehe..I'm sure I could manage it.

Now I have heard your Mr Fuller on a radio interview not long after Dover, where your American friend (which sums up his ignorant attitude, coupled with a cheesy optimism) claimed to have found a new epistemology for religion and science other words sweet f#uck all of nothing.

The interviewer seemed less than impressed. Naturally Fuller waved his hands.....there was nothing up his sleeves. He was a bit dull actually.

He was certainly less than impressive on the stand at Dover and succeeded in  sending the gallery to sleep while speaking at a rate exceeding the formation of rational thought...especially his own.

When he finished they couldn't show him the door too soon.

So IF you DO have the opportunity to ping him. Ask him a very simple question that demands a very simple answer and don't let him expand on it.

That classic question is the one old time lawyers keep asking creationists and their answer always discredits them immediately if they get it wrong.
(adopt AliG's persona for these)
Mr Fuller. Please answer Yes or No, Do you agree or disagree with Mr Darwin that Homo Sapiens and Chimpanzees are descended from a common ancestor?

He will of course try to go all postmodern with equal time for stupid ideas and as a professional in that field he has few peers (snicker).

In which case I would say

Mr Fuller. Please answer Yes or No, Do you agree or disagree with Dr Alan Sokal (who I'm sure he fears) that postmodernism and pseudo science are descended from a common ancestor?

And would you please speculate what that ancestor may be.

Don't wait for him to answer
prompt him with dingbats, religious fanaticism, national socialism, UFO kooks, homeopathy, new agers  

Anything you like really.....just to get under his skin.

Date: 2006/07/17 04:18:26, Link
Author: k.e
Louis; Just on the off chance you are not familiar with Sokal


Transgressing the Transgressors: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Total Bullshit

Date: 2006/07/17 05:30:24, Link
Author: k.e
Good one Louis.

Yeah he's a fast talking smart ass so he knows what strings to pull to rise up through the ranks of PoMo Social Science and probably screwed the right people.

If I was there I would ask him something along the lines of.

"Re Dover: Now that all the evidence has been weighed and the Dover school board was found attempting to introduce creationism which being a religion, is therefore illegal in US science classes. So yes or no, is it morally supportable on your part  to assist a US school board to break the law as you did at the Dover trial?"

And watch him squirm.

He may say ID is not creationism (remind him it is according to the US court) and he WILL take up the rest of conversation with mental masturbation to cover his tracks (remind him ID is not science but religion according to the US court),

So it would be an interesting exercise to see how many times he would need to be reminded before he quits.

He will come up with a 'new epistemology' which is just code for theocratic circular reasoning
(remind him objective reasoning tells us that reality is measurable and practiced without the aid of the putative humanities since they gave up reason in favor non evidence based apologetics of one kind or another)
then throw a full pint of Guinness over him and give him the old one two.  arrrrrrrggggggghhhhh. Dang I wish I was there you just can't get that sort of entertainment here. Maybe scratch that last suggestion..maybe.

Skeptics should have a ball with this guy.

Now I suspect he will come over all lovey dovey and say HE is a skeptic as well, but he is a sheep in wolfs clothing, he's just an old slightly more sophisticated creationist.

You should warn your skeptic pals to be wary of having the wool pulled over their eyes.

Date: 2006/07/17 08:59:49, Link
Author: k.e
All the action is in reverse engineering the machinery of life at the molecular scale. Engineers are the experts at reverse engineering. Who cares what happened in the distant past? That’s water under the bridge. Everything important is in living tissue and we don’t need to guess about how it works when we can reverse engineer it. -ds

Yup history is bunk, In the Year of our Microsoft 0031 praise our Ford. Pol Pot and DS would have been bosom buddies in year zero. Kill all the old people, wipe out mans collected wisdom, and breed reverse engineers to secure our future utopia.

No man north of the border is more in need of a blow job more than DT.

History is not an intelligent agent, it is a concept, as is time which cannot be observed directly as it is not reducible except as a unit of measure of past events.

In effect we observe history which we measure its sequence of events with units of time. Thus we observe history not time as such. The past is a sequence of events which we call history.

Without those events we would not be here, various figures in the past have attempted to destroy recorded history so they can shape the future in their own image....need I go on?

Huxley wrote his revenge on the history destroyers (In the year of our Ford... [history is bunk Henry] and the dystopian nightmare of a society that based all its values on 'objective engineering' without reference to the subjective, dare I say divine, art of reading between the lines of mythology and nature itself which is what Darwin did.

In DT's world a jaw bone morphing into ear bone removes him as a valued creator of life in his own image, his projected god is thus a second rate actor...just as DT is. (It's ALL projection)

When nature can better 'engineer' a functioning system through sexual reproduction and time.
He is intensely envious of both. A mere mortal wart on the ass of beauty ....a sneeze of nature itself.

Story telling (Myths of psychological revelation) from our Oral/Aural prehistory when captured on paper lead to objectivism, where science and its attention to facts confuses the sheep who then read those stories as though they were peer reviewed studies of actual events.

Balbinder Sing Bhogal a Lecturer in Religious Studies, University of Derby
States: that the heavily visual modes of consciousness typical of literate and postliterate cultures can make an objectivist paradigm highly probable.

He makes the same observation as Huxley (and Orwell for that matter) on misguided objectivism, see his definitions below.

objectivism = "the idea that all acceptable knowledge must take the form of exact, impersonal, context-neutral ‘facts’" p.1 related to Modernity results in ‘hyperrationalistic technocratic tyranny’

relativism = the opposite, or ultimate conclusion, where "no knowledge claims of the objectivist kind can be found, there is no true knowledge and rival knowledge claims are incommensurable". p.1 related to late-Modernity or sometimes Post-Modernity. results in ‘deconstructive irrationalistic nihilism’.

Now doesn't that sound familiar.
Discussion about orality and literacy

Date: 2006/07/17 09:10:11, Link
Author: k.e
You know DT is getting serious 'shrinkage' when someone intelligent drops by and rattles their chains and questions their macho chest beating....he projects 'girly man'. I wonder if he wears his wifes outfits when he looks at the pictures in Sci Am...God knows he doesn't actually undertand the writing.

Date: 2006/07/17 09:53:01, Link
Author: k.e
Now here is someone who can write, apologies to anyone who has read this already
Greetings From Idiot America

This is how Idiot America engages the great issues of the day. It decides, en masse, with a thousand keystrokes and clicks of the remote control, that because there are two sides to every question, they both must be right, or at least not wrong. And the poor biologist's words carry no more weight than the thunderations of some turkey-neck preacher out of the Church of Christ's Own Parking Facility in DeLand, Florida. Less weight, in fact, because our scientist is an "expert" and, therefore, an "elitist." Nobody buys his books. Nobody puts him on cable. He's brilliant, surely, but his Gut's the same as ours. He just ignores it, poor fool.

Date: 2006/07/17 19:26:06, Link
Author: k.e
Dembski's blog for the last few days seems to be spending more space on presenting the arguments against him than presenting Dembski's arguments themselves.

That's the nasty thing about tautologies they have the nasty habit of coming back and biting you on the ass.

Of course he wouldn't notice...considering where he has his head.

Expect him to engage reality less and mumble on about epistimology and logos blah..blah.blah.

Date: 2006/07/18 02:49:30, Link
Author: k.e
Is the Tardi di tutti Tardi a rampant closet case? GoP should take note!

GoP to DT....bend over and I'll let you feel the all powerfull creator.

DT to GoP ...ooooh you big bad boy.

They both know they want it. Closet queens.

Date: 2006/07/18 03:58:59, Link
Author: k.e
Frig.... double post

Date: 2006/07/18 04:17:47, Link
Author: k.e
Louis Lol
Hey, not that there is anything wrong with that! hehehehhe
gOp AND dt ....poor guys, are just wondering what a hairy kiss would be like ....not to mention chewing the matress.

I imagine it would be something like their favorite gods of korn..... where GWB Smooches Joe Lieberman.
Stephen Colbert -The Word- Inquisition

Twip, sputter.... still after DT's imaginary dive on fairybell it would taste a whole lot better, and there would be no pulling hairs from his teeth (snicker).

Oh well Louis if those dHed's on UD can't amuse us 24/7 (they ARE just a a little tardy on the tard stakes lately) at least we can speculate on what their supressed weirdness is really going down on  :O

Date: 2006/07/18 04:44:41, Link
Author: k.e
SteveS being an Aural kind of person --in other words when I see a word, I hear the sound--so whenever I see Denyse

I see Dense-see rather than Denise. She must have had postmodernist parents( not that there is anything wrong with that), AND just what is going on with her hair cut?

Surely Dave Tard should be mysoginistically ticking her off for being  a commie lesbo feminist. Oh that's right they accept marxists  and church burners as long as they say the 'g' word...ah.... I just love their 'moral' standards.

Back on the Aural thingy read this word and then, say back the same word in reverse


If you you said 'trap' you are a literalist if you said 'taarp' you are like me, someone who who sees beyond the word .....(thats logos DickTaarp ....IL Duce-ski has fallen into a logo-matic mind reducer, his mind is sausage meat)

Date: 2006/07/18 05:13:11, Link
Author: k.e
I wonder if Sal thinks Denyse is Hot?
For me .....sure...... if I was backed up against a pin ball machine at a honky tonk on a slow night after a few, and Bob Marley got her toes tapping, and no tears...but he never wrote, never called, no flowers...bastard!

Date: 2006/07/18 05:26:33, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah I really like the idea of DT's own blog.

I want to perfect my JAD impersonation.

I hope WAD gives DT a good bitch slapping so he COMPETES with WAD for the IDIOT mind share.

Come to my blog you will be treated as a 'special' person (sM*rk..guffaw..coff.).

Your crazy ideas welcome here,all hours. A gated blog for the weak of mind, passionate pissant, red of neck and strong on homo's (behind closed doors).

Date: 2006/07/18 05:30:19, Link
Author: k.e

Date: 2006/07/18 05:44:16, Link
Author: k.e
Wow---- fairybell does a very REAL gutting of

Oberste SA-Führer (Supreme Storm Trooper Commander) Il Duce-ski

Shiva H Krishna .....wot is de wurld cuming 2

Date: 2006/07/18 05:59:48, Link
Author: k.e
In case anyone had any bad thoughts about Deneeese I mean't if SHE backed me up to a pinball machine...snigger...oh and ripped of her TOP button and growled.

Bugger getting rid of DT is just soooo disapointing....what are we going to do...... comment on WADuche bags frikken stupid 'epistimology' ...oh man get me a bag of rabbits and a gun.

Date: 2006/07/18 06:18:40, Link
Author: k.e
Kan you, Mynd my pretty møøse bites....
By B  nasti...

Date: 2006/07/18 06:53:38, Link
Author: k.e
OA you missed 3 exploration companies
I have worked for in the Oil game I'll not name, but one was from Q8 the other Austria and the last Norway.

A Geophysisicist in one of them was a YEC, who was given the task of peeling back the horizons on seismic data to explore a green fields acreage serveral hundred miles from the nearest producing well.
He used all the models currently accepted of old earth but when asked how 'old' the earth was his reference was Fundy Biblical lteralism.

Lucky for him he didn't let it interfere with his professionalism otherwise he would have been out of a job before you could say "$40,000,000 deepwater wildcat". Talk about dichotomy.

He did have sexual repression problems tho' ...and 5 kids go figure.

Date: 2006/07/18 07:16:33, Link
Author: k.e
But has she read Scientific American?

Are you kidding? With that haircut?

She only reads RadFundyFemBot Mag.

Sci-Am is a phalocentric and  paternalistic hegemony where gravity and evolution are given a free run and equal time for fairies and hairy beavers is an anathema

Date: 2006/07/18 07:27:33, Link
Author: k.e

But has she read Scientific American?

Yeah, and what were her SAT scores?

Did she take them when she was in her 20's?

20's ....oh it all makes sense. She went to a flappers make over and ended up in the Christian Church of Librarian radical evolutio-o-phobes.

Date: 2006/07/18 07:36:43, Link
Author: k.e
half a dick....why so suddenly strident ?

God gave you another cheek to turn, so really, shouting is for those in the ditch....where the blind have been led...... by people such as your parents.

Don't blame them they were uneducated.... as you are.

You should consider an education before its too late.

Date: 2006/07/18 07:54:13, Link
Author: k.e
Oh AirFartDave;
Osama has more thruth than you and he appeals to the same father of Abraham.

Except he is not depending on China-- not to call in all the money owed to it-- that is in fact funding your temperary excusion into Iraq.

When you have been thrown out of the middle east and Oil which is the result of organic matter laid down mostly from 135 million years ago reaches $135.oo a barrel you can make squillions by REPEATING the 'flud' science you love---go to it boy.... oil in 3 days...billions of barrels.

Date: 2006/07/18 08:24:33, Link
Author: k.e
hair fool day says:
Lots of 45 degree slopes there, buddy boy!!

Go back and have a look at those slopes air (ass kicked out of Vietnam) fool dud.

I see plenty of 90 degree slopes.

Date: 2006/07/18 08:32:53, Link
Author: k.e
Here's MY greatest moment -- with your mother, last night, homo.-dt

Yeah thanks, she already told me, she said you were useless.

Date: 2006/07/18 08:49:00, Link
Author: k.e
Speed (distance divided by history) of continental drift.
Speed of mountain formation.
Speed to produce fossil fuels.
Speed to erode kilometers of topsoil over continents.
Speed to produce several ice ages.
Speed to produce fossils.

Date: 2006/07/18 08:58:02, Link
Author: k.e
No they are not go and look at deadmans photo.

Anyone can perform the experiment pour water over a rock and see how much is eroded then repeat the experiment with ash.

AFDave you are a childish liar I feel sorry for you and even more for your children. Your father lied to you and that is not forgivable.

Date: 2006/07/18 09:04:13, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah, well, if your mother's walking a little funny today, now you know why.

I also violate 2LOT when I'm with your mother. Homo.-dt

Yeah well she reckoned she had to grab the lampstand and shove it in just to get off after you rolled off after 30 seconds.

Date: 2006/07/18 09:22:14, Link
Author: k.e
The only reason I rolled off is because I saw your daddy filming us, and I had to go kick his ass. I'm back with your momma again right now, as I type this. I violate more things than just 2LOT, if you know what I mean and I think you do. Homo.-dt
It wasn't MY daddy it was YOUR daddy AND he was dressed in suspenders with a butt plug. My daddy was getting a BJ at his favorite glory hole in Tiajuana.

Date: 2006/07/18 09:27:15, Link
Author: k.e
Donkey show?

You didn't see the rest of him, HE WAS the donkey!

Date: 2006/07/18 09:33:26, Link
Author: k.e
Don't worry, strangely it's the one thing that translates into all languages (but not donkey).

Anyway, where were we.

Oh that's right, your mother was a homo and your father smelled of elderberries, so without DT we have no silly english  type, persons to fart at.

Date: 2006/07/18 21:55:59, Link
Author: k.e
A truly tear jerking moment...urk..snuffle..suppressed giggle.

We should all stand to attention, heads bowed, hand over heart as the proud pole (that's a flag pole BTW) on DT's 300 day Reich is all but snuffed out by the freaky zany eyed Fundy freak show of Frau DL and all pray....snicker. Another photoshopertunity.

DT you were not a victim of a Darwinist conspiracy but the Evil Empire of satanic verse chanting zombie acolytes of ironic.

Date: 2006/07/18 23:01:18, Link
Author: k.e
Oh yeah AFDunce YEC books are science just because free speech is a right. (rolls eyes) Are you on crack?

Greetings From Idiot America

The Gut is the basis for the Great Premises of Idiot America. We hold these truths to be self-evident:
Any theory is valid if it sells books, soaks up ratings, or otherwise moves units.
Anything can be true if somebody says it on television.
Fact is that which enough people believe. Truth is determined by how fervently they believe it.
How does it work? This is how it works. On August 21, a newspaper account of the "intelligent design" movement contained this remarkable sentence: "They have mounted a politically savvy challenge to evolution as the bedrock of modern biology, propelling a fringe academic movement onto the front pages and putting Darwin's defenders firmly on the defensive."
A "politically savvy challenge to evolution" is as self-evidently ridiculous as an agriculturally savvy challenge to euclidean geometry would be. It makes as much sense as conducting a Gallup poll on gravity or running someone for president on the Alchemy Party ticket.
It doesn't matter what percentage of people believe they ought to be able to flap their arms and fly, none of them can. It doesn't matter how many votes your candidate got, he's not going to turn lead into gold. The sentence is so arrantly foolish that the only real news in it is where it appeared.
On the front page. Of The New York Times.

Date: 2006/07/18 23:25:30, Link
Author: k.e
Deadman you pussy, that WAS a great post.

Funny how DT going brought out the best insults in US.

Showing not only his pygmy-ness in the science stakes but in the great art of the insulting repartee.

As for Dense Deneese I think the grand plan is to sell a few more despoiled trees ....and where better to do it than WAD's fundy play-pen.

And she is fair game as far as that goes,
no one said that the politics of group stupidity
--which make no mistake is what she is indulging in---was off limits to personal criticism ...what if she was a man?

..oh wait

...what if she just looked like one

...uh oh...hang on I'll get this right yet.

What if she dressed and looked like a bull dyke and you wouldn't let her into the house if she showed up to meet your daughter? that would be dykist...we can't have that.

Date: 2006/07/19 04:01:22, Link
Author: k.e
twip sputter coff coff....sneeze.

DT would be MUCH nicer especially after he has nibbled WAD's ....erm 'cool' chocolate covered nuts...

Date: 2006/07/19 06:04:17, Link
Author: k.e
Hey GoP you should have put your pic up with missy.

Then you wouldn't need to compare her to a and her in the same pic. would be proof positive you were descended from long line of knuckle scrapers.

Have you fixed your drooling problem yet?

Étant Donnés

Oh BTW hair fart dave just how much of the Grand Canyon's floor been eroded in the time since white men collected records

IF YOU are right then the canyon should be eroding at more than 1 meter per year at least and in 1776 the river would have been more than 123 meters higher RIGHT?

Date: 2006/07/19 06:12:28, Link
Author: k.e
Kristen Kreuk I'll bet Elle a chaud au cul

Date: 2006/07/19 06:51:19, Link
Author: k.e
Thanks OA I knew someone would PROVE that the erosion YEC's claim IS IMPOSSIBLE.

While at the same time showing that YEC's are TOTAL LIARS.

Date: 2006/07/19 06:55:42, Link
Author: k.e
and look at those 90 degree walls ...boy that must be some HARD rock.

I predict DAFT will change the subject and try to declare victory.

Just another hard day of lying for AFD.

Date: 2006/07/20 03:12:16, Link
Author: k.e
Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Look it up Air Pussy Dave

You Dembski, Hovind and all the other snake stranglers exhibit one and the same.

Now, in recent history the dead have suffered  from what used to called MEGOLAMANIA. In fact they still suffer now.

The rest of the board probably does not need much prompting to name those misanthropes

Reasons to be cheerful for Lost Souls:  Dementia, Schizophrenia, Megalomania, and Love for the Death of the World .

AFD will voted out and his ass handed to him by those who have a closer connection to god ...Osama and friends.

Date: 2006/07/20 03:41:51, Link
Author: k.e
AFD more what?

Comming from the SFB grand miester of Idiot America you have the nerve to say that?

Look fella if I ever run  into you in real life I'll gut and skin you faster than road kill.

And while I roast you on a spit in front of your slimy spawn I'll call god to tell him how much of a lying scumbag you are.

Date: 2006/07/20 03:55:06, Link
Author: k.e

Date: 2006/07/20 04:19:49, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah count me in too.

Although, I rather suspect the mouth will move faster than the eye.

Where is Houdini when you need him?

It's always fun to watch a magician ply his trade but the CRAZY thing is..... most of the audience WANT to believe the illusion, when you point out the step by step pure chicanery of the act they DO NOT want to hear it.

Ah well.... as the magician once said to the apprentice

Even if you tell them, they wont believe it.

Date: 2006/07/20 04:24:50, Link
Author: k.e
Which of course leads us to that great Biblical Parable.


Crowd: How shall we worship you, oh Lord?

Brian: Look, just F#uck off alright?

Crowd: How do you want us to F#uck off oh Lord?

Date: 2006/07/20 04:36:08, Link
Author: k.e
AFD who is "waiting for godot" said:

To me, this is a separate issue from its value as a religious book or as "the inspired Word of God."

Ooooh, a small chink there Turkey NecK? (Goebble, Goebble)

Wait a minute, did you just say the bible is not the trvth?

Back up a minute, Idiot America, you are on a very slippery slope there.

You are cutting adrift the great unwashed Cletus' of the trailer parks there, AFD....are YOU THAT brave?

I think not.

Nice try though....snicker

Date: 2006/07/20 05:00:41, Link
Author: k.e
choke$~N  ..gaffaw.

Date: 2006/07/20 05:12:37, Link
Author: k.e

Date: 2006/07/20 05:18:31, Link
Author: k.e
Or do you not consider me a human?

or more corectly ..yes

Date: 2006/07/20 05:24:43, Link
Author: k.e
You have no excuse for ignoring the 'no YEC business case' data presented, unless you are lying about your business background too.  Is that it?

Well that's the age old answer. ..isn't it.

If you can't blind them with Science ......baffle them with B*ullshit.

The Dembski's et al find no end of means to separate fools from their money....except AFD he has failed on both counts.

Date: 2006/07/21 04:59:54, Link
Author: k.e
The ONLY gap.... is between your ears sunshine some people call it god.

Date: 2006/07/21 05:47:37, Link
Author: k.e
Ah yes.... Let the fun begin.

Dense Denies L.H.O.O.Q.* what a come down, Hi-Rise too close to him up there, thou Wandless Promethean?

Neutered cats with apartmentia....not full filling enough?

So now we have what? A walk in the woods with the pin up boy of the "new logic".......tell us again, how sheep’s bladders can prevent earthquakes.

DOLey, the sheep seems to have the evolved thingy running around her revolving brain, there is just one thing missing...thought..any thought.

So how long will she last?

Will she do what MUST be done to suppress the evil librul Darwinian forces of reality and ban coherent discombobulation  as DT did (much to our enjoyment) or will she engage her neurons for a cold cup of 'gee I'm an idiot'.

*saying that in English says something veri nace in French—look its not as bad as the Spartan Lacedemonian Ambassadors ** we're talking serious mythology here ..OK

**The Lacedaemonian Ambassadors (3)

Here come the Spartan envoys with long, worried beards.
Hail, Spartans how do you fare?
Did anything new arise?

No Need for a clutter o'words. Do ye see our condition?

The situation swells to greater tension.
Something will explode soon!

A bit of Victorian anti-prurience.

Date: 2006/07/21 06:03:56, Link
Author: k.e
I second that Mr C.

I for one am going to find the missing Frisson not nearly as entertaining, its just going to be god this and god that and god up the wazzy.

What the D needs is a good Devil to run score.

Hey, whatabout Janiehell? Snicker…at least then, someone with balls would be on the site……. oh wait…

Date: 2006/07/21 06:17:55, Link
Author: k.e
others call it .....sunshine.

Date: 2006/07/21 06:29:56, Link
Author: k.e
AFD While you are researching VALID science (you know, the bit that says flapping your arms will never get you off the ground) you should check the validity of the imaginary history of the Jewish people.

Date: 2006/07/22 05:59:44, Link
Author: k.e
Dense Denies says:
That’s the trouble with setting traps. You never know who will fall in.

Oh... a font of "folksy wisdom are we?"

How about

A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking


It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them


The only thing that stops God from sending another flood is that the first one was useless

Many more here

Date: 2006/07/22 06:22:54, Link
Author: k.e
Are snakes today descendants of the serpent as described in the bible?

Well yes and no.

1. Todays middle eastern snake ancestors were alive in the Levant around over 2,300 years ago around the time the first Imagined History of the Jewish People was transcribed.

2. Today they don't speak any lingua franca (A medium of communication between peoples of different languages.) unless Eve spoke sssssssssssssssssss.

3. Strippers still tell the same story of controlled sexual desire (with snakes as the phallic symbol) ...look and dream, but don't touch.

4. Some people still think talking snakes are real. (They prove the simple fact some people will believe anything.

Date: 2006/07/22 20:22:49, Link
Author: k.e
So tell us AFD (a man who accepts a talking snake as a fact...a sure sign of institutionalized schizophrenia).

Why when you go flying you accept the mainstream theory of aerodynamics and a whole host of advanced science not to mention weather reports not based on any interoperation of the bible, but find other human activities using the same proven methods of measuring data and forming conclusions that have stood the test of time …..must be adapted to a modern American political movement that uses the bible as a tool to claim authority for an intellectually bankrupt and failed anti-enlightenment jihad to reduce the education of the worlds most advanced nation.

Creation scientists?-?-?

What in your own words is  an oxymoron AFD?

Date: 2006/07/22 20:49:09, Link
Author: k.e
Flying Dinosaurs .....Oh give me a break next you will be talking about flying Mammals.....oh wait.

AFD I had 2 migrants from Nigeria come up to me last night while I was having a coffee and reading my newspaper at my local coffee shop, all nice and friendly fact just a little too friendly..So I was immediately suspicious.

Anyway the point man, who had his young son with him was carrying what looked like a bible and claimed to be a geologist. He was reluctant to acknowledge it was a bible at first so I had to tease it out of him.

Thanks to you I was able to get to the heart of the matter in no time...thanks.

He was disappointed to find out that by his own standards his claim to knowing the word of god was on equal footing to that of Osama Bin Laden...something your President is well aware of.

He even started to blither about Carbon-14 dating when he reluctantly admitted the earth was around 10,000 years old. Before he could get very far into that famous red herring I took his bible and held it to my ear and told him I couldn't hear the world of god so he proceeded to read from it. I had to remind him that he is no more qualified than anyone else to speak on behalf of god and the words written in the bible are not the words of god but the words of the bible’s writers and the stories are mythology and are not to be given the same factual weight as the newspaper I was reading before he interrupted me.

He was shocked to find out he worshipped a book.
Needless to say it was closed for the rest of the conversation.

More questioning revealed he was the member of some fundamentalist evangelical sect/cult which paralleled the Christian American Taliban something you yourself have made me aware of.

I left him with a few gory  tales of initiation ceremonies of ancient Stone Age tribes …….the beginning of religion in the Human Animal

Date: 2006/07/23 02:51:27, Link
Author: k.e
<i>Please rent a portable oxygen unit and try understanding this paragraph again while breathing deeply.  Thanks!</i>

Do you have a comprehesion problem?

Are you slightly autistic?

Do you have difficulty understanding more than one concept at a time.?

You do seem rather uncultured, even for an American.

That may explain your simplistic and childish grasp on reality.

Date: 2006/07/23 07:22:19, Link
Author: k.e
And while you are searching your kiddies story books, you know the ones AFD the ones with pop ups, for the .....ah scientifickle answers to those questions.

Heck it MUST be in National Geographic right? Along with all the other creationist drivel, right?

Just explain how Noah collected all the new world animals from South America and the giant marsupials from Australia (which BTW were extinct long before the mythical  Noah was a glint in his mythical daddy's eye) AND why is there no record of those animals in the book you idly worship.

Do unicorns and dragons exist AFD?

Pssst, they come from story books as well...twit.

Date: 2006/07/26 06:37:07, Link
Author: k.e
On the subject of Hair-Do-Day's gone ToSorrow hopeless grasp for the inerrancy of his precious book.

AFD does the printing press count as the printer of whichever book you base your story on ,or does the printing company count as the originator?

Because neither of those count as god.

Neither do the translators count as god.

Neither do the scribes who wrote on the papyrus count as god.

Neither do the orators and or preists who told the scribes what to write count as god.

Where is your evidence that any of the above processes actually involved a force so powerful as to make you think fantasy is reality.

Oh right, dementia in your case is self inflicted, sorry...carry on.

Date: 2006/07/26 06:51:09, Link
Author: k.e
Amazing. Biologists predict x. Intelligent Designers don't. Biologists find x. Intelligent Designers declare victory.

Yeah and all their research ( coff, choke) get's printed in all the quality scientific press..oh er...the political press, where it can be peeper reviewed...yawn.

Date: 2006/07/26 09:44:26, Link
Author: k.e
I'm sure Darwin can be blamed for good old Joe after all he was the head of his secret police RIGHT ?

Everyone knows that 3 days or so after Chucky D died he arose and has walked the earth subverting the minds of ooooh let me guess the Tutsis and the Hutus in Rawanda ...nah couldn't be ....they were both Christain ....howabout the Iraquis and the Irananians in one of the most bloody recent wars ...nup both moslem.

Well he must be to blame for the fantasic stupidity of the American Fundy, if he isn't...who IS?

No prizes for getting that right BTW.

Date: 2006/07/26 10:03:03, Link
Author: k.e
AFD get in touch with the out of work car salesmen that write you're creationist drival and get them to fix the bit about the fossils will you, there's a good boy.

The problem is that they are not mixed up, when the BFG pulled the plug, some of those fossils seem to have been burried millions of years appart in circumstances that do not match even a minor rain storm let alone a FLUD.

Just how is your ark going BTW AFarkD?
Is the whole world against your stupid vision that the world is going to end in a FLUD? Better grap the pets eh
AFarkD .....oh and see if you can get your local zoo to shove 2 of each onto your Fark doodly woodly. No cheating, handlers are not allowed...neither are your kids.

You can sail the seas, for what is it ? 40 days, what is it about that number?

Most people with tempory schizophrenia cure themselves in that time, Christ did.

Date: 2006/07/26 11:08:12, Link
Author: k.e
eric you have hit the nail on the head.

Hair Fart Dork does not know what evidence IS.

His mommy and daddy removed the ability to percieve reality as a child by lying and then covering up the lie with more lies.

You only have to meet the poor deluded children of fundies to see that, programmed right of the box.

Little, monkey see monkey do robots.

Date: 2006/07/26 11:13:13, Link
Author: k.e
HECK he doesn't know what IS is.

But we can't blame him now can we ...snicker

still some people were sucked in when Bill did it, now the whole fundy nation is saying "well if the president can deny reality so can we, just watch us".

Date: 2006/07/27 05:37:37, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah need to get worked up over our pet 42 year old wannabe famous before he becomes an adult Sal 'Sancho Panza' Cordova.

The biggest problem the IDol(t)olators is that they take up precious time with their one true word of the 'Designer'.

Me? I figure if their many faceted, multifarious, Technicolor dream loin cloths ARE useful then world peace, poverty, and global warming are history ...uh oh.

Dembski can wallow in his shallow h3ll, after all when it comes to apologetics ...he has a lot of apologizing to do.

His sycophants are dying to get him in the witness stand to shout out the obvious...dude, what they don't realize is that once he has their money he's dreaming about the next sale, not the next Salem.

Date: 2006/07/27 06:05:34, Link
Author: k.e
Gee septic u still at it?

Now u really should take AFD's advice and end the confusion and take on the whole creationist pop up book guide to the history of nature. The cartoon version of mans revealed knowledge... you know you want to do it.

Pssst .....they even have web sites with pictures!

Dinosaurs in elysian fields with platonic looking Jesus Freaks.

Skep..... get a grip man....take the hand of the amen...and sing of the heavenly praise our father deserves

What are you? a pansy?...

Date: 2006/07/27 06:33:50, Link
Author: k.e
er....... hair do day gone tosorrow

Contrast this with modern day, self-proclaimed "apostles" whose commission HAS NOT been verified by living apostles who actually lived and walked with Jesus.

such as yourself?

oh the blushfemmy

Date: 2006/07/27 06:45:12, Link
Author: k.e
Ooops I think I might have misunderestimated you there hair do day...when you said.

Contrast this with modern day, self-proclaimed "apostles" whose commission HAS NOT been verified by living apostles who actually lived and walked with Jesus.

You WERE talking about THE ORINGINAL Bob Marley ...RIGHT?

I know, I know ......there are a lot of fakes around.

...appologies accepted.

Date: 2006/07/27 06:55:01, Link
Author: k.e
Nice one Wes.

I made the assumption that everyone knew that.

Yeah Moon considers himself to be a cross between Jesus and Rupert Murdoch sort of a divinely inspired ancient emperor Rome with the one true king of kings replacing Zeus. (no its not a mistake)

Hey don't criticize it, slavery can be bought cheap these days.

Date: 2006/07/27 07:08:49, Link
Author: k.e
Well I'm an agnostic atheist, I don't believe that god believes in science, otherwise why would he have fundies?

I have run all sorts of scientific tests for western conservative gods, eastern mystical gods, new age postmodern gods and the lab won't return the results.

I think they're Calvinists.

Date: 2006/07/28 18:01:03, Link
Author: k.e
haw haw that left me in stiches.....

It's a pity that after ID pricked her finger at the onset
of mentruation, she didn't go to sleep for a hundred years. (again)

That is until some 'handsome' prince climbed over the bramble covered wall of the enchanted castle castle and kissed her 'beatiful lips' prompting the whole court to come back to life and continue the crazy dance as though the outside world had not moved on by over a 100 years.

This modern fairy tale continues with the same thread of the old ones, an examination of psycho-sexual dysfunction in humans, arrested development, id, ego, superego and good old projection,  the story repeats, just the actors change.

There are useful scholary works that examine folk tales and religious Myths that peel back the mystery.

Try a search on "psychology of fairy tales

That mystery religionistas would rather keep as their main tool, obscurantism.

Date: 2006/07/28 18:18:44, Link
Author: k.e
Thanks for  the free geology education guys...fantastic.

Does anyone have a 2d seismic slide that shows dated horizons going back millions of years, with lots of faults.

Dave will have to show how over 6000 years the earth's crust would have to have a major Alaskan (like) earth quake every few years AND a FLUD to cover the faults. making several 100  or 1000's over the last 6000 years

Date: 2006/07/28 20:15:23, Link
Author: k.e
skeptic "I'm a believer in invisible explanations identical to creationism" states he is not a creationist...yawn.

Nice try .....but say that on a witness stand (and no winking) and what would a jury say?

So you want a theocratic science education, god didit end of story, pity all the gods that were ever invented remain as no more than empty words in the mouths of their public relations spin doctors.

For that theocratic science education you will need to change your constitution, from atheocratic to theocratic, good luck because the religion you want will not be what everyone else wants, have you considered moving to Iran?

You assume that your deity exists, I assume it doesn't, if you want to have your wind or tree spirit to be part of the explanation all you have to do is show us without an appeal to magic.

Of course you could just hand out creationist (or your own brand of anti-evolution) pamphlets at the school gates along with every other nutjob....instead of here.

Date: 2006/07/28 21:57:26, Link
Author: k.e
Oh that's right it flew off into space or something. So for his repeated floods where the water covered Mt Everest every few years after each earth quake the results of which one can see in seismic.

We would need to have cosmic flooding!!

Now those hindu creation myths are starting to make sense....except the earth was created from ambrosial butter churned from the milky cosmos by the gods and anti-gods both holding a ladle made from the cosmic snake wrapped around the cosmic mountain several trillion years ago.

Date: 2006/07/30 05:03:45, Link
Author: k.e
Don't tell me the cock got off the dung hill.

Come back you coward and ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!!!

Date: 2006/07/30 05:25:04, Link
Author: k.e
Bing you may be onto something there..... but keep in mind Lawyers are trained to argue for murderers and criminals whether they agree with the perp. or not.

In other words even if they think they are on the losing side they still have to sound convincing.

Unlike scientists their conscience is for sale to the highest bidder and hiding the truth for them is a high art.

If lawyers were scientists , chewbacca would never had hung out with ewoks*....which we all know...he did.

Chewbacca Defense

Date: 2006/07/30 08:26:05, Link
Author: k.e
As far as I can see the whole problem with fundamentalists and their ilk is that they NEED objective proof for gods, simply because they accept so called sacred texts AS literally true.

They are caught in trap created by their very definition of facts and evidence and hence perception of reality, what they call 'world view'.

If one accepts a set of mythical stories as objective fact in the same sense as science accepts objective facts and if those same people lack the ability to place any subjective value  on the deeper psychological meaning of mythology, which can ONLY be interpreted subjectively, then they end up with... ironically enough, hyper irrationality and a purely relative judgment on what DOES constitute a fact or evidence.

By adopting a dogmatic and conservative stand on interpretation of myth, since they argue NOT to do so leads to relativism...what happens? .... they become ultra relativists and I would argue dangerous, since they place no value on objective truth...Hoist on their own petard.

As has been pointed out numerous times they actually worship words.

Now here is a true story, last night at a local coffee shop 2 guys came in to buy some food, now one of them had what seemed a slight disability. Anyway the first guy got his order while the other one asked the kid behind the counter for a meat pie with onions... the kid said the pie had onions it just wasn't written on the sign...
the guy said “No I really want it with onions”
kid “No, the pie has onions the sign just doesn't say it”
guy” Look I really want it with onions”
his friend threw a fit and stormed off, hopped in his car and left the onion guy stranded.

Literalism drives some people mad.

You only have to look at the whole DI and Dover crowd ...NOT one of them could lie straight in bed.

Date: 2006/07/30 18:58:10, Link
Author: k.e
Well for AFD the rules of evidence don't apply.

Even if the cops had a video of him speeding through a red light, he would deny it in court, if he thought they would believe he was on a mission from god.

Fortunately for science the courts actually do apply the rules of evidence and all the religious nutjobs have failed the test and were found to be:
b)were unable to provide evidence that evolution is not true.

Next case.

Date: 2006/07/30 19:07:48, Link
Author: k.e
Sinic who is not the least bit skeptical, after all god created man from dirt..right Sinic?..... moans about Dawkins.

Why would that be?

Oh right, Dawkins is removing the one thing religion requires, obscurantism (hiding the facts from the great unwashed).

Why do you think everyone else needs those facts covered up, Sinic? Freedom from dogma not your cup of tea?

Why pick on Dawkins? Too close to the bone?
I don't hear you complaining the crap televangelists spew forth.
As I said you are a cynic, Sinic.

Date: 2006/07/31 02:36:06, Link
Author: k.e
Salmeander wanders from post to pillar and spouts:

And I do think Behe is closer to the truth than Ken Miller.

bwhahahhhhahahah heheheheheh .....snicker.

Whoa there Rocinante skinny old nag.

Right...and after the gavel fell in Dover the TRUTH was that snivelling Behe was a popped balloon, and Millars TEXTBOOKS still DO NOT have NON-science SUCH AS palm reading or Sally's Sunday zodiacs as ....wait for it.....objective fact. Sal..... you can safely conclude that everything in Millar's textbooks IS objective fact ....que irony...otherwise it wouldn't BE there.

Oh yeah right ......Sal depends on that old relativist depends what the definition of 'be'

Date: 2006/08/02 02:47:06, Link
Author: k.e
Bwhahahahahahaha Dr Podovski

HOW STUPID would you have to be to believe That stuff.

uh...question already answered.

Date: 2006/08/02 06:26:42, Link
Author: k.e
Keiths and incorygible well done!

Dembski must really piss off the 'serious' IDers who were under the impression that ID was about science..snicker.

Hey Barrett1 if you stumble on this....sucker!!!

When Billy got your hard earned, he don't give a rats ass WHAT you want anymore.

Date: 2006/08/02 07:23:35, Link
Author: k.e
Now , now Glenn

.....only Creationists are allowed to ask questions that can't be proved ....without an intelligence transplant.

...and besides he asked first nya nya nya thrrrrrrp.

And his Daddy TOLD him it was it IS there.

Date: 2006/08/03 04:55:03, Link
Author: k.e
I must be getting old but "Pan Sexuals" don't do it for me ,at least in the last 25 years anyway ...I'm running out of diamonds.

Still "Rusty Trawler" dave boat widower, must think he can make up for lost time.

Howabout Dense Denies with her Darwin,Darwin,Darwin biscuit silly party loony right "I want to lick your balls  GWB"  gaggle blab?

Gee, is Mrs Dembski onto this?

Date: 2006/08/03 06:12:02, Link
Author: k.e
17 years old?.....mmmpfffpppff

Davey dawg you have been snookered u old green rag.

U didn't go down too well there did u? In the green jungle I mean.



Jay knee whot evur u R

hats off!!!

Date: 2006/08/04 06:11:56, Link
Author: k.e
I can't resist this.

The lingering after tardiness of DSS is still giving me the giggles.

OK Davey listen up. I am the father of 2 girls one is turning 18 the other is 20 ........believe me you are being HAD by Janee balls.

The laugh is on you and you are just too d@mn thick to see it.

Hook, line AND sinker.

Sucker.....oh I forgot..... you believed you were soldier...carry on.

Date: 2006/08/04 06:47:42, Link
Author: k.e
snigger ......Stheve...... you bitch

Date: 2006/08/04 06:57:25, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah Steve.

I was pondering what the motive might be for the little subterfuge.

A little culture jamming practice for a bigger
the target is Davey.

So someone ...or maybe a few of DT's old Marine Corps buddies...nach.

The funniest thing is, it wouldn't surprise me if it was Demski himself or someone from the DI..not Sal he's too stupid.

T.S. is clever enough.

Have a think about it from a motive POV.

Denyse would have the perfect motive.

Date: 2006/08/04 07:11:07, Link
Author: k.e
hehehehehe.....or the two Berlinski's

But she doesn't have his ...ah.... archaic mannerisms.

Whatever, it is one person, probably male and younger rather than older.

Date: 2006/08/04 07:15:16, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah a T.S. like character I can't remember his other name started with 'M' (the evil doctor) Ichy will know who I mean

Date: 2006/08/04 07:20:31, Link
Author: k.e
Morbius was who I was thinking of.

Could JAD pull it off ?

Date: 2006/08/04 08:07:25, Link
Author: k.e
OK rule out JAD.

We have a computer savy, but JAD/DSS familiar, jokester, who can parody like a pro.


Pulls on beard.

BWE where are you? You rascal.

Date: 2006/08/04 08:53:08, Link
Author: k.e
Nup not BWE far too uncultured for him.

Talks a bit like GOP.


Who ever it is talks it may be a lurker ...after all everyone here is as pure as the driven snow...snicker.

And he's right about the redneck pointing out the card trick....but when I tell anyone...a large percentage don't want to spoil their dream.

Date: 2006/08/04 09:01:01, Link
Author: k.e
uh thanks for decoding that Steve.

Never touched the stuff, honest. If I had tho' it would have fried my neurons, I'm sure.

Nup turned on and tuned in with natural 'erbs only, never inhaled of course.

OK this guy or these guys are youngish <30 I smell a hint of teen spirit.

Date: 2006/08/04 09:08:03, Link
Author: k.e
Definetly a guy 100% certain.

Only guys insult each other by saying they are girls.

The funny thing is he is almost a carbon copy of DSS himself....weird.

Date: 2006/08/04 09:22:20, Link
Author: k.e
Sorry Blipey .....shot first and aimed later.

I'm still intrigued tho'

Lesbian science lovers?


Date: 2006/08/04 09:32:52, Link
Author: k.e
I'm pretty sure it's a middle-aged male we would know here at AtBC.

Who does a very convincing job of being an ID "science only please" type of guy.

The postmodernist "any idea has value" and the "don't insult me I like god" barmeyness of IDers would be pretty hard for me to fake, hmmmmm.

Date: 2006/08/04 09:46:36, Link
Author: k.e
yeah it should be sappho-ligious

(ie science is sacroligious against Sappho the legendary Greek lesbian poet of the island of Lesbos...I'm unconvinced a male MO suits a foreigner in the culture wars)

but I bought a consonant to make it roll off the tongue easier

Date: 2006/08/04 09:53:43, Link
Author: k.e
Now that I think about it JB would be very useful for DSS.

A soft spot eh?

And is it a joke?

Date: 2006/08/04 21:16:05, Link
Author: k.e
Steve why the sudden back peddling?

Date: 2006/08/05 03:45:50, Link
Author: k.e
2. Nonetheless, the typical Darwinist continues to insist that only ignorance or some vast conspiracy among pious wingnuts explains growing public disbelief in his system.

Yes, Dense Denies.........and your point?

Date: 2006/08/05 04:35:28, Link
Author: k.e
By the way, you should all know that Arden and stevestory are actually the same person, Burgoyne "Bunny" Wigglesworth, the nefarious British spy and raconteur.

Ah yes the 7th member of the famous "Oxford 5" who for reasons  known only to himself wrote an abridged and unauthorized autobiography titled "The Gay Saboteur: My life of sock  puppetry and kinky cloaks; Volume 7". There is no record of Volumes One to Six.

One reviewer described it as a tawdry tale of penetrations, sunken wrecks, moles, cracked codes and sudden death. The reader is taken on a journey with "Bunny" Wiggleworth as he trawls the bath houses of Istanbul between the wars, in a narcotic haze, in search of blond German submariners sent there to train the Turkish Navy.

Burgoyne was named after his great grandfather who was an infamous member of an old family of Jewish Swiss chocolatiers (The Burghers of Goyne) and had Whitehall known this would have not hired him.

Bunny somehow managed to flee first to Moscow where he was a double agent in the service of both the KGB and the Foreign Intelligence Service of Chad, when found out, he defected to the USA and made an overland escape through Siberia by Yak to the Bering Sea where he was picked up by the US Navy's newest 'nuculear' submarine. Once in the US the CIA wouldn't touch him with a barge pole and pensioned him off.  He converted to Catholicism   and founded an underground sect that had an unique form of  worship “something to do with pomegranates”  is all that can be found out at this stage.

I expect all will be revealed in Volume 8.

Date: 2006/08/05 05:00:09, Link
Author: k.e
I do still miss the ebola-boy taunts, though.


Yes well they WERE good, but he was on our side..snicker.

I don't think it can get any better than Dense's last post though, what do you call a 'journalist' who googles her 'science'

A Googlist?
A Journoogler?

A lazy half assed pompous self important twit incapable of even grasping the first principles of objective investigation....oh...thats a definition.

Date: 2006/08/05 05:28:54, Link
Author: k.e
You're right Flint.

I think it was on UD ,they ..the ignorati (All the proof one needs for Barnum's Axiom) first gushed that Behe was "saying the obvious LOUD and CLEAR on the stand they (we) JUST don't ...get it"

Hey....the snake-oil salesman ALWAYS sleeps at night, no problem.

Fools and their money are easily parted.

Who is going to ask for it back?

That would be tanamount to an admission they have been milked.

Date: 2006/08/05 06:11:07, Link
Author: k.e
Steve S - nice little bit of fiction over on UDOJ there..very impressive.

Date: 2006/08/05 06:20:32, Link
Author: k.e
And 17? Get out of here.

Date: 2006/08/05 06:32:29, Link
Author: k.e
Hair Brained Dave you truly are certifiable.

Crazier than a 2 bob watch.

Date: 2006/08/05 07:31:04, Link
Author: k.e
Of course what Dense doesn't get is that in the southern hemisphere the marsupial pouch only looks upside down when you are in the northern hemisphere ....or it rotates in the opposite direction...I forget which....hang on..... I'll Google it.

BTW the Southern Rock Wallaby can talk ...did you know's in all the creationist literature ...or is that the snake? Hmmmm

Now I'm sure if I Google THAT there will be talking snakes by the dozen...and saddled Dinosaurs ...yes true ..if you don't believe me just Google it.

Oh and let's not forget no no... NOT fake ones REAL ones they're googlibal as well.

Heck I'll bet you could find all sorts of nonsense and pseudoscience with REAL evidence by using Google.

Pretty soon even 'journalists' will be believing that pseudoscience IS science, when they can't tell fact from fiction ............or satire from reality.

Date: 2006/08/05 07:46:38, Link
Author: k.e
How much can a Koala bear?


The koala's pouch is unique from that of other tree-dwelling marsupials because it opens at the rear. Female koalas have only one baby at a time, and the offspring spends up to seven months in the pouch. After that, it clings to its mother's back until it's about one year old.

Now if g_d really exists why do we need Pastors? ...bad design of gods?

Date: 2006/08/05 08:42:53, Link
Author: k.e

On August 05, 2006 2:02 PM, JanieBelle said...

You know what's funny? Not one single person has accused us of being Ichthyic.

Perhaps we are more clever than you realize,


Saturday, August 05, 2006
Through The Looking Glass, Down The Rabbit Hole
Apparently, we took the blue pill.

Since it seems to be the most popular subject on the interweb these days, we've decided to "go with the flow". Why not? What the ####, it drives traffic, and if that's what you, our readers want to talk about, who are we to argue?

Our inbox now has over 2,000 emails in it. Now most of that is from the blog. We get an email every time someone comments.

We had a bunch of hatemail a while back, but that's trickled off now, for which I am eternally grateful.

But now we're getting swamped with thoughts on who we "REALLY" are. Without naming names of accusers, here's a pretty complete list (I think I got them all) of your thoughts:

#1 Far and away, the readers' choice is DaveScot.

Honorable mentions (in no particular order) go to

Steve Story, a very distant second
Wesley Elsberry
PZ Meyers
William A. Dembski
MorphoDyke (that's just offensive)
Somebody named Kat who apparently has some issues and goes around pretending to be other people
James Wynne
Ghost of Paley (also offensive)
Arden Chatfield

There are some other, much less popular, but no less interesting choices

Josh Bozeman (both offensive and stupid - that boy is dumber than a rock)
Joel Borofsky
Dohn A. Javison (that one deserves a black eye)

Through The Looking Glass, Down The Rabbit Hole


I'll take back BWE not being able to fake potty mouth.

Top call ......DSS hisself, a logical conclusion, since the parody closely resembles His Arseholeness' own little brand of facism. Davey boy is far too egotesticle to do such a thing.
Oh it's NOT me although I'm flattered to be in the running.

Icky ? I wonder.

Date: 2006/08/05 08:50:28, Link
Author: k.e
I don't think it is one of the usual suspects. It could be a Husband and Wife team which I'm guessing would leave Icky out.

BWE certainly has the smarts AND the deviousness.

Now whose wife made those hilarious comments on Coulter?

Date: 2006/08/05 08:58:23, Link
Author: k.e
Oh guthrie don't be a snob.......hang on a minute. Looks at guthrie sideways.

Date: 2006/08/05 09:03:21, Link
Author: k.e
D@mn..... Wesley Black and White TV!!!

Whats My Line.

Now you have made me feel old!

Date: 2006/08/05 20:45:01, Link
Author: k.e
Steve S said:
Believe what you want, but Janie and Kate are apparently real.

Yeah AND she is a 17 going on 35 lesbian who finds DT, evo/devo and AtBC interesting.

The vote, if true, for (girlyman) Dave 'Bunny' T himself since his ego wouldn't allow him to be suckered in like that may be the most obvious answer.

Whoever it is, must be chortling 'I kill me sometimes'.

Date: 2006/08/05 22:59:53, Link
Author: k.e
I think you are safe there Icky,

JAD would seem too far gone to do a Me, Myself and Irene.

D "It's raining men" T and his house boy might just be having some fun.

Date: 2006/08/05 23:44:36, Link
Author: k.e
Good news Deadman I have just received a box of leather bound diaries written by Burgoyne 'Bunny' Wigglesworth (sent anonymously AND posthumously of course). Starting with 1937 all the way through 1975 with years 1957-59 missing, a quick check of 1960 shows he was incarcerated for the alleged crime of carrying a minor over state lines. Although he doesn't admit that directly. He simply alleges it.

Looks like I'll have to write Volume 8 of his unauthorized autobiography myself.

Now the odd thing is this.
He has footnoted his diaries in reverse chronological order Almost as though SOMEONE ELSE has written them.

He makes all sorts of claims of a religious nature, including the ludicrous notion that he was here for a REASON and that we were descended from an ancient line of walking plants, he presents no evidence of course.

Anyway that only takes up a tiny portion of  his diaries mostly its concerned with chasing and categorizing the sexual proclivities of like minded people.

Date: 2006/08/06 01:54:05, Link
Author: k.e
AFD is losing it.

Bone head

Date: 2006/08/06 02:23:38, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah keiths it would take a leap of faith to credit DT with cockpuppets (kiss the dolly) j&k.

Date: 2006/08/06 03:53:15, Link
Author: k.e
Oooooh ......what's that sound?(cups hand to ear)

Yes folks it the air whistling out of AFD's balloon head.

Now he is just a 2 diminsional piece of cartoon rubber head lying on the floor.

For his next trick AFD talks out of his ass.

Date: 2006/08/06 04:36:25, Link
Author: k.e
Oh AFD is sure his 'references' are superceded.

But for him lying is not a matter of superceding preceding lies, it is a necessity of the moment.

Digging up long refuted 'facts' to prove his non factual god is a pathological obsession.

Date: 2006/08/06 20:57:04, Link
Author: k.e
Eric wrote:
Dave, don't be completely idiotic. Your "purpose" here isn't exactly a mystery to us.

And if you're trying to sound like a man of God by saying that, man are you ever wrong. You sound exactly like the cliché villain in some poorly-written violence-drenched Saturday-morning cartoon. And you're just as good for the well-being of children.

AFD's 'God' is the god of liars and the insane, he is no different to the loonies who were locked up for thinking they were Napoleon Bonaparte. Delusions of grandeur indeed, the current clinical definition is Narcissistic Personality Disorder however it was previously known as Megalomania.


Paradoxically, a person who exhibits such tremendous ego and self-confidence in reality has such low self-esteem and such a fragile ego that he cannot abide any expression other than his own, for fear of annihilation of the self. Therefore everything that is not under his control is perceived as a threat.

AFD's whole world view and perception of self is so tied up with his unsupportable delusion that he must resort to any wild and or ridiculous assertion by personality types similar to himself ...NOT to do so risks annihilation of his ego.

He is trapped, on the one hand to accept reality he loses his identity and on the other to ensure the survival of his ego he must move further from reality (believing his senses) and further into insanity ( unable to determine what is real and what is not).

His posts are getting wilder and more desperate.

AFD you need help.

Date: 2006/08/07 03:32:39, Link
Author: k.e
I think you would just say, "Ah, that guy's just a stupid creationist."

No AFD wrong.
I would say
"Ah, that guy's just an ignorant uneducated lying pseudo scientist, who values his own self importance and quite often money above truth."

Pseudo science avoids peer review --in layman's terms a reality check or idiot test.

Just like you do AFD.

Peer review is NOT a one sided process.

If a scientist proposes a testable idea and that idea is shown to be wrong by his peers he is expected to provide enough evidence to support his conclusion or retract his assertion.

If he doesn't, he does not get the support of his peers and if his proposals are clearly wrong he can no longer claim to have the support of that body of wisdom and the organizations and governments that support them.

Heck AFD the world of science is littered with stories of various shysters trying to promote their scams while assuming a 'scientific' air of respectability...don't tell me you can't spot a fraud..what is the matter with you?

Are you a fool?

The single greatest value science has is in fact not an objective measure but a moral value, that of ones conscience. Where someone is found to be deliberately lying, then they lose creditability and respect.

That is to say AFD you will have to bear with me here because this is a concept you have no grasp of...indeed your past actions show that you do not only NOT understand this but are pathologically UNABLE to understand it..

I only say that because, others while they may be aware of it need to understand that AFD is physically incapable of understanding the value of truth, his own conscience lies to him.

In science ego's get hurt, many careers have ended where cherished causes not based on reality cause their owners to literally 'go off the rails', fortunately the great majority of the people involved in science value the opinion of their peers AND have enough self respect to know when to admit they are wrong. Their world doesn't end because of an emotional defect, as yours would if you acknowledged the truth.

AFD has been damaged as a child, he is carrying a wound and until he seeks professional help will never be able to deal with his problem.

Mythology actually has something to say in this area.
The tale of Parsifal  an uneducated  fool who tasted early success which gave him a higher opinion of himself than was deserved,  spent many years wandering the forests searching for the hidden castle and each time he found it forgot to ask the question that would have ended his perpetual miasma “What ails thee Knight?”.

AFD has the capacity to pass that damage on, and there is very little we can do to prevent it.

All we can do is reveal his delusion.

Date: 2006/08/07 03:49:06, Link
Author: k.e
Pathetic isn't it
......It is not possible to be an intellectually fulfilled athiest.

Comment by Jehu — August 3, 2006 @ 3:53 pm

Or indeed an intellectually fulfilled thiest unless athiesm is assumed to false.

Not one of them can hold a candle to Dawkins intellectually so are they fulfilled with far less intellect?

No need to answer that question...even Bill "2 PhD's" Dembski.

Geez it must piss him off.

Date: 2006/08/07 03:59:39, Link
Author: k.e
Morton is too kind.

The young-earth creationist must ask himself the following question if he is to be a Normal Rational Person  

Why am I an irrational abnormal person

Date: 2006/08/07 04:47:38, Link
Author: k.e
You are not familiar with the tower ostrich (Struthio phala camelus) or more correctly Cretin metaphorio mixus descended from the cranium sedi rectum obscurantist, a long line of self elected representatives of jove.

Date: 2006/08/07 06:21:21, Link
Author: k.e
So God killed JH OR the FBI is God...makes sense to me

Date: 2006/08/07 07:35:53, Link
Author: k.e

I believe it was Paul Nelson (really) who said something to the effect of:

If intelligent agency WERE a causal factor in the history of life on earth (certainly a live, logical possibility), would materialism allow us to discover that?

I think the answer is no, and therefore the deficiency of the materialistic framework becomes obvious.


Comment by ultimate175 — August 7, 2006 @ 11:04 am

I think he's just said that Dembski's Design Inference is bollocks.


Is that because the 'Intelligence Agency' behind the super secret plan to put  Genesis back in the science classroom relies on the Intelligent Designers Dembski/Nelson et al.

wow no wonder  GOD er 'the designer' didn't stand a chance, those guys aren't smart enough to tie their own shoe laces

but they are NOT stupid enough to get on a witness stand and say the designer is not god.....the evidence is overwhelming...they can't write more than 10 words without uttering god did it and nasty reality can't find him but jazus saves.

Date: 2006/08/07 08:59:34, Link
Author: k.e
I think PaV might be onto something there
In fact, biological evolution provides the only “existence proof” that an algorithm can produce complexity transcending that of its antecedents.

I'll bet he says that to all the girls.

They must swoon into his arms when he says that with a straight face.

"Hey baby, care to come back to my place and transcend my antecedents with my algorithm"

....ooohh only if its a BIG algorithm---snicker.

Date: 2006/08/07 19:33:01, Link
Author: k.e
Last night when I read AFD's last blither about circular reasoning my jaw dropped (again).

I even wasted some time digging up the usual creationist false use of logic to support their own  circular reasoning. (The same type of logic that failed in Dover BTW)

They seem to think that by making a statement (any statement) the statement itself IS evidence.

The moon is made of green cheese, therefore the moon IS green cheese.

Why do you think the moon is made of green cheese?

Well some guy who merely made the assertion, said so

Yes, and what did he say?

The moon is made of green cheese, therefore the moon IS green cheese.

So a circular argument made by a 3rd person?

But it was written in a BOOK, AND it had footnotes so it MUST be science

Oh so, just like the bible eh?

AFD worships  books, bone idolatry.

I was going to suggest he read

The Map That Changed the World: William Smith and the Birth of Modern Geology

And guess what ....surprise ...surprise.. the 2 competing world views in geography in the early 1800's were .......wait for it....catastrophism and gradualism.

Trust a born again idiot to dredge up a 200 year old disproved bible based 'scientific theory'.

Date: 2006/08/07 20:11:15, Link
Author: k.e
Only a cynic (one who would use any argument no matter how vague to support a deeply held belief) would say:

Maybe when it all comes down to it its a question as to whether or not we believe the concept of life itself to be an accident or a direct consequence (result) of the universe we live in.

Out of mouths of babes

Since 99% of skeptics angst is projection, lets see what he really is saying...ready.....observe.

Maybe when it all comes down to it, it's a question as to whether or not I believe I am an accident or put here by the gods of my ancestors, so I have that sense of the order I need imposed on the stars and a reason for living and can die happy because I have rationalized chaos .

Known around the world as the boo hoo hoo, oh woe is me, school of  anything but science.

Breast feeding should be encouraged more, IMO.

But still no genuine science.

Date: 2006/08/08 03:20:00, Link
Author: k.e
Gee Josh is making Scott's BLOOD BOIL.

D#$M Frigging Darwinists who do THEY THINK THEY ARE...... Darwinists or something.

Scott is the only one of gods true (unelected)** representatives here on earth who can say what the treveth (trvth) is...... and buggered if the truth is going to get in the way.

Why ...if he listened to Josh, he might forget what the trvth is the car salesman who forgot that, that nice Trabant you had you eye on was only driven to  the STASI headquarters once a month by a balding middle aged Spinster from Leipzig
WHEN last time he swore it was garaged by the Minister of Trvth from the day it was 'diverted' from the production line 'wink wink'.

Just imagine if these guys ran the government.....uh oh.

**edit: or should that be un-olegt-ed

Date: 2006/08/08 04:19:20, Link
Author: k.e
eric wrote:
You don't have a flood, because you ain't got no water, so where's your explanation for anything?

I'll hop in here and help Dave out. but first a song.

Don't know much about history
Don't know much biology
Don't know much about a science book
Don't know much about the French I took
But I do know that I love you (dog)
And I know that if you love me too (dog)
What a wonderful world this would be

Now if you think HairFoolDunce has run out of stupid quotes to mine ...he obviously hasen't seen THIS.

Don't Know Much About History

A song popular about 40 years ago contained the line “don’t know much about history.” Apparently things haven’t changed much. Here are some purported-to-be actual answers collected from 6th grade history tests (including spelling anomalies):
“Egypt was inhabited by mummies and they all wrote in hydraulics. They lived in the Sarah Dessert. The climate of the Sarah is such that the inhabitants have to live elsewhere.”

“The Greeks were a highly sculptured people, and without them we wouldn’t have history. The Greeks also had myths. A myth is a female moth.”

“Socrates was a famous Greek teacher who gave people advice. They killed him. After his death, his career suffered a dramatic decline.”

“The greatest writer of the Renaissance was William Shakespeare. He was born in 1564, supposedly on his birthday. He wrote tragedies, comedies, and hysterectomies, all in Islamic pentameter.”

“Johann Bach wrote a great many musical compositions. Bach died from 1750 to the present. Bach was the most famous composer in the world and so was Handel. Handel was half German, half Italian, and half English. He was very large.”

“Beethoven wrote music even though he was deaf. He was so deaf he wrote loud music.”

That’s an “F” in World History. What about American history? A couple answers were: “Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity by rubbing two cats backwards. Franklin died in 1790 and is still dead.”

More here

Date: 2006/08/08 04:30:57, Link
Author: k.e
You wouldn't be a Bush supporter by any chance AFD?

Note: this is not quote mined, but stolen in full from

Bush: His theme song
Melodi: What a wonderful world...

Don't know much about history. Don't know much foreign policy.
I don't know the names of men I grill, Or implications of the seats I fill.  
But I do know who has paid my way. For corporate interests and the NRA
What a wonderful world this will be.

Don't know much about ecology. Cutting trees has always worked for me. And  
I don't know about the women's vote, And I can't think of any bill I wrote.  
But there's one thing that I know for sure, If the rich stay rich and the  
poor stay poor What a wonderful world this will be.
I never claimed to be an A student, but I don't have to be. If you have  
deep pockets and sell nuclear rockets You're a friend of my family.

Don't know much about air pollution. Don't know much about the  
Constitution. Don't care much for solar energy. There's nothing in it for  
my friends and me. And if we can't find any on our soil We can go to war  
and get more oil, and What a wonderful world this will be.

Don't know much about the driving rules. Don't know much about the public  
schools. Don't know why the inner cities fail Why can't folks get dad to  
pay for Yale? And if the issues causing you to lose Are never covered in  
the evening news, What a wonderful world this will be.
I never claimed to be an A student, but I don't have to be. If you have a  
brother who's the Florida Governor, the result's no mystery.

Don't know much about history. Don't know much foreign policy. Don't  
know  'bout paying off a debt. I never had to pay one off yet. But I do  
know who has paid my way. For special interests in the USA  
What a wonderful world this will be.

Date: 2006/08/08 04:47:57, Link
Author: k.e
olegt: The right moral perspective?

WAD: Well of course, and free advertising you heathen. Now get out of my clown show.

BTW......BR grrreat name :>

Date: 2006/08/08 07:33:31, Link
Author: k.e
Whoa..... have we just entered BIZZARO world?

"You know what they say, 'You don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle.'"
- Kramer in The Bizzaro Jerry

Date: 2006/08/08 08:55:38, Link
Author: k.e
Thankyou WAD for  gratuitously bloviating on the  beauty of the  material world. Duh.

Date: 2006/08/09 05:16:05, Link
Author: k.e
So .....AfterFartDave (trust me I'm a creationist)..... have you invited your softheaded fools friends back for a second bite of humble pie?


Why not, scared?

You are a weeping waterless sissy ArseFondleDood.

BTW all the evidence is in AllF*ck*d*p Dave you are a liar of babelic proportions.

Now where is the tower of bable again?

Howzabout posting some archaelogical evidence to support that fable?

Whaaa, no can do?

So it's just an imaginary tale?...thought so.

Date: 2006/08/10 07:51:03, Link
Author: k.e
AFD, weener, part time bus pilot, and all round idiot is high on luv, luv for some dusty old tracts printed on paper.

Circularity..he doesn't even understand what it means.

Facts..for someone so wrapped up in them he doesn't have a clue what facts are.

You just can't buy this sort of entertainment.

Thanks AFD for proving rocks are not as stupid as you.

And now back to the main program where AFD continues to talk out of his arse.

Who is to blame? His Mom, poor girl, ignored little Davey while (how many Martinis a day was it in Gay Brazil was it Davey?) Daddy did his stuff, not now boy.

Date: 2006/08/11 17:54:41, Link
Author: k.e
AnusFogDave .....look boyo forget all that stuff about not having enough water all g*d needed was INSTANT WATER.

Just add a drip.

Date: 2006/08/12 07:53:45, Link
Author: k.e
Blush..why thankyou argy' and steve.

I must say I didn't know who H.L.Menken was (...and I do understand the antipodeans only thought Americans were funny on TV...ducks behind sofa :) but the modern wonders of the eye of god I mean google ...quicky revealed ....MY KIND OF GUY!

An acerbic commentator with a wit similar to the master of satire himself Evelyn Waugh.(The Loved One, Scoop, Vile Bodies, not his more serious stuuf)

I even picked out a worthy quote

Creator - A comedian whose audience is afraid to laugh.

But it seems Bebbo was on the same track:
If God exists he must be a comedian to create this kind of entertainment.

Well it seems Demski's god is having a huge laugh behind his back.

Date: 2006/08/12 08:17:30, Link
Author: k.e
Geez AFD you're stupid.

Take a look at the GC wall and look up the word sedimentation, you have no idea what it means.

Then after you have asked a grown up to explain what that big word means. Do a search on "seismic cross section gulf of mexico"

And when you read the results take your head of your ass.

Date: 2006/08/12 08:38:25, Link
Author: k.e
Hey stupid dave, why don't you and your buddies find out how many oil companies use your 6000 year flud wank to find oil.

These guys are surveying down to 12 million years ago and guess what they would say if you showed up and tried to tell them about da flud.

Think of all the money they would save not having to pay intelligent people, when they can listen to your puke instead.

An extensive 3D sequence stratigraphy analysis

I'll bet they would tell you to flud off.

Date: 2006/08/12 08:49:20, Link
Author: k.e
Here is a chart to help AFD decode the Geologic Ages on the last post

Phanerozoic Eon (543 million years ago to present)

If anyone has a better one and the time feel free to put it up as an embedded image.

Now AFD...... where did all the layer upon layer of deposits over millions of years in the Gulf of Mexico come from? And how much organic matter from the carboniferous age was trapped and cooked under those salt domes?

Date: 2006/08/12 09:02:45, Link
Author: k.e
Stop lying to yourself AFD.

Date: 2006/08/13 02:31:25, Link
Author: k.e
Hey stupid dave, don't forget to checkout Uranium dating in Coral, Oxygen Isotope dating in lake sediments and sea sediments and Ice-cores, plus pollen dating which all correlate.

See how real science uses these various dating methods to calibrate their data.

PALEOCLIMATOLOGY; Sultry Last Interglacial Gets a Sudden Chill

Now Uranium has a half life of about 11,000 years that means if your pathetic idea was true none of the Uranium on earth would have reached its first half life.

So DAFT one explain why scientists think Uranium has been around for millions of years;

Date: 2006/08/13 02:51:38, Link
Author: k.e
Let me fix that for you Arf Dog

Of course, my hypothesis Pathetic Brain Fart is that all 25 (or so) of these layers were deposited and eroded in a relatively brief time (deposition less than a year, erosion possibly in a few days, but not commencing until possibly several years after the Flood mythical story ).  

Parting  of (sic) demonstrating my hypothesis delusion will involve showing the implausibility of the Christian Scripture and the failure of US Christian fundamentalist education.

Indeed.......Parting  of reality and AFD's thoughts.

Date: 2006/08/13 06:31:47, Link
Author: k.e
keiths said:
Look who's gone groveling back to UD to lick his master's feet:

The IDiot wants his village back.

He must be running low on rotten vegetables.

Oh well ....shackle 'em up in the stocks.... I'll clean out my fridge.

Date: 2006/08/14 18:41:19, Link
Author: k.e
AFDimwit spouts:
You guys make me cry (here in the loony bin we think it's laughing)  Thanks for the thrashing us martyrs call that entertainment!  More dirt eating tomorrow!

Date: 2006/08/15 03:51:58, Link
Author: k.e
Krauss finishes with
"The battle is not against faith, but against ignorance."

Date: 2006/08/15 04:55:50, Link
Author: k.e
AirFoolDrooling spat
The Creationist dating of the layers in the Grand Staircase is largely arbitrary--I think I used the term "Smoke and Mirrors"

What I mean by this is that I think geologists Creationists BELIEVE in Millions6000ofyearsianism, and this clouds their thinking.

Date: 2006/08/15 05:03:46, Link
Author: k.e

look out AssFartDunce; falling rocks in the quote mine.

It is also important to note that relative ages are inherently more precise
Relative geologic ages can be deduced in rock sequences consisting of sedimentary, metamorphic, or igneous rock units. In fact, they constitute an essential part in any precise isotopic, or absolute, dating program. Such is the case because most rocks simply cannot be isotopically dated. Therefore, a geologist must first determine relative ages and then locate the most favourable units for absolute dating. It is also important to note that relative ages are inherently more precise, since two or more units deposited minutes or years apart would have identical absolute ages but precisely defined relative ages. While absolute ages require expensive, complex analytical equipment, relative ages can be deduced from simple visual observations. dating. (2006). In Encyclopædia Britannica. Retrieved August 15, 2006, from Encyclopædia Britannica Premium Service:

Date: 2006/08/15 05:43:18, Link
Author: k.e
1) The rocks are dated by the fossils. Hebrew Fairy tale
2) Then other fossils are dated by the rocks just dated by fossils. Hebrew Fairy tale
3) Sprinkle some fake Hebrew Fairy tale
RM dating onto the whole mess to help it not stink so bad!!
4) Feed it to the public and then pat each other on the back about what great scientists Hebrew Fairy tale
we are!!

AFD doesn't realize he came down in the last shower and thinks babies are brought by storks.....Just amazing!!

By George I think AFD's got it!

Oh quick question AFD, why did god not make water?
There is no record of it in Genesis.

Another question.

If the earth was covered in your flud why are the ice caps on Greenland over a 100,000 years old (dated by oxygen isotopes)

Date: 2006/08/15 06:32:05, Link
Author: k.e

BarryA's "Monty Python peasant" was a communist.

ARTHUR:  How do you do, good lady?  I am Arthur, King of the Britons.  Whose castle is that?
WOMAN:  King of the who?
ARTHUR:  The Britons.
WOMAN:  Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR:  Well, we all are.  We are all Britons, and I am your king.
WOMAN:  I didn't know we had a king.  I thought we were an autonomous collective.
DENNIS:  You're fooling yourself.  We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN:  Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
DENNIS:  That's what it's all about.  If only people would hear of--
ARTHUR:  Please!  Please, good people.  I am in haste.  Who lives in that castle?
WOMAN:  No one lives there.
ARTHUR:  Then who is your lord?
WOMAN:  We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR:  What?
DENNIS:  I told you.  We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune.  We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
DENNIS:  ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR:  Yes, I see.
DENNIS: a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
DENNIS:  ...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
ARTHUR:  Be quiet!  I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN:  Order, eh?  Who does he think he is?  Heh.
ARTHUR:  I am your king!
WOMAN:  Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR:  You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN:  Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR:  The Lady of the Lake,...
   [angels sing]
   ...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to
   carry Excalibur.
   [singing stops]
   That is why I am your king!
DENNIS:  Listen.  Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.  Supreme executive power derives from a
   mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:  Be quiet!
DENNIS:  Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:  Shut up!
DENNIS:  I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
ARTHUR:  Shut up, will you?  Shut up!
DENNIS:  Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:  Shut up!
DENNIS:  Oh!  Come and see the violence inherent in the system!  Help!  Help!  I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR:  Bloody peasant!
DENNIS:  Oh, what a give-away.  Did you hear that?  Did you hear that, eh?  That's what I'm on about.  Did you see him repressing me?  You saw it,
   didn't you?

And the King ruled by Divine Providence.

So BarryA wants the proletariat to rule by Divine Providence as defined by ...oh....his interpretation of ancient scripture.....where's my gun.

Date: 2006/08/15 07:07:30, Link
Author: k.e
Explain the Greenland Ice Cap AFD

And by the way you do not understand circular reasoning.

The evidence for RM is NOT reasoning it exists outside reasoning and is independently verifiable by anyone from any religious background unlike creationism and interpretation of scripture which is nothing but reasoning limited to an ideological cult.

Words in a book do not represent evidence otherwise the statement "electric sheep exist" is true.

Date: 2006/08/15 07:28:29, Link
Author: k.e
Hey AFD there is an explanation for everything even your stupidity.

But really..... choosing an old English Nursery Rhyme as a philosophical argument ? just shows how much of a child you are.

BTW do you know the origin of "Pop goes the Weasel"

In the early 1800's in England there was huge planting of Mulberry trees for silk worm farming.

They planted many in prison yards and 'Round and round the Mulberry Bush' was an allusion to "doing time". Just like you are in your own little fundy child's brain prison.

Date: 2006/08/15 08:27:54, Link
Author: k.e
Tracy-- It's circular, my friend.  I abbreviated the logic and probably confused you.  Let me explain it in more detail ...


AFD stop playing with yourself, your going blind.


1) Evolution has occurred.  (Really?  How do you know?)
2) Because the rocks are old.  (How do you know this?)
3) See they contain trilobites.  (Why does that make them old?)
4) They are old because evolution has occurred and takes millions of years.  (Wait ... I thought that's what you were trying to show by the age of the rocks.)
5) No.  Evolution is a fact.  It stands alone. (I thought you said it is proven by old rocks)
6) I did.  (Then how again are the rocks shown to be old?)
7) I told you ... they contain trilobites.


AFD that is so stupid its not even worth deconstructing.

Proven by evidence not reasoning.

But just as a matter of interest,
How old are trilobites?

(And baby stories about some camel driver building a boat don't count.)

What testable method do you use to date them.

(And baby stories about some camel driver building a boat don't count.)

Where is your peer reviewed papers to support your argument.

(And baby stories about some camel driver building a boat don't count.)

What professional scientific bodies support your assertion.

(And baby stories about some camel driver building a boat don't count.)

Date: 2006/08/15 08:56:26, Link
Author: k.e
Just in case nobody has noticed
Circular Reasoning is AFD's weakest point.
He knows it is BAD because

Is there a God?
How do you know?
Because the Bible says so.
How do you know the Bible is correct?
Because it was inspired by God.

He's not the only one, creationists have literally gone mad claiming fossils reason in circles with such howler sites as this one

AFD fossils don't reason; only humans and other animals that read bibles.

Date: 2006/08/15 09:41:04, Link
Author: k.e

Explain the Greenland Icecap and all the other unanswered questions

Air Taxi Loser

Date: 2006/08/15 18:15:29, Link
Author: k.e
Creationists just don't understand what circular reasoning is.

Call it fundy brain rot but the classic one is the Ken Ham "weeeeere youuuuu theeere?"

No of course not, no one was there when the mythical flud occurred either.

Children with uncorrected thinking skills are the only ones who fall for that.

No AFD, circular reasoning does not mean using differing sets of data/evidence that correlate to support a conclusion.

That is simply calibration. Exactly the same way as measuring a standard and then using that standard measure, to measure an object in situ.

It is the basis for all modern technology, if it didn't work then the Internet and countless other modern developments would not be possible.

Otherwise no conclusions about anything could be made if your childish 'logic' had any relevance.

And therein lies the problem, tell a child that something exists without proof, any proof, then that child's logical facility will remain in a childish state, in other words the child will accept a lie as a truth.

Now why would anyone want to that?

Oh that's right ........circular reasoning is bad because it disproves the objective statement 'god exists' ....there is no data to support the conclusion, and the bible is not data. The hyper rationalistic AFD cannot accept that a story is just that, a story to be read  subjectively.

The answer for AFD is to claim circular reasoning is drawing a conclusion from data BECAUSE the data AGREES with other relevant data.

The 'logic' here is that because the data can have an imaginary line drawn from one point to another producing a putative circle, box, triangle, polygon, etc etc then somehow that is 'circular' reasoning, and the same thing as reaching a conclusion based on a false premise.

No the the false premise is his.
AFD: "the flud is fact" (premise) the data does not agree with the premise.

Thus AFD's conclusion is the data is false.

AFD circular reasoning means, that in very simple terms for your simple calcified childlike brain, the premise, the idea, the thought, a creative product of the human mind, or for some a  delusion drives the conclusion ......not the data.

You want to prove the flud without circular reasoning, fine provide the evidence (and a 2500 year old tale from sand farmers in the middle east is not evidence)

Radio Metric dating.

Creationist circular reasoning "Oh yeah, well according to the bible the earth is 6000 yo (The premise) so the data from RM is false (conclusion)"

Date: 2006/08/15 19:05:39, Link
Author: k.e
Noah to god: You want me to collect what?

The Big G: (sigh)....the uni-cellular slime mold Dictyostelium discoideum ......and be quick about it !

Noah: F@ck 'em .....they can swim.

Date: 2006/08/16 05:40:10, Link
Author: k.e
Give it up AFD.

You lost

No tantrum or any amount of screaming, jumping up and down, running around yelling mommy mommy is going to change things.

You lost in Dover and every single court case previous to it.

Not one single business uses diluvian creationism as a valid  persuit except utter charletons.

Besides all that AFD, you have convinced everyone you are stark raving insane.

Date: 2006/08/16 06:05:05, Link
Author: k.e

AFD changes from "Circular reasoning" to CIRCULARITY

(still in his tiny mind meaning the same, since he was embarrasingly flogged in shower, boo hoo hoo)

now change that to RELATIVE and you get the actual meaning.

Now CALIBRATE only 2 layers with ABSOLUTE TIME and extrapolate the age of other layers for known processes able to be MEASURED or CALCULATED and ESTIMATE with a measure of STATISTICAL CONFIDENCE the age of the other layers.

DO not make up data like super heated rocks destoying evidence JUST TO FIT YOUR STUPID PREMISE or believe ridiculous stories such as men living to 900 years old when quite plainly it is impossible.

AFD actually has no concept of time (another common creationist trait)

Geologic Age is can be measured by the 11 year sun spot cyle which effects the  atomic structure of the rock surface, it can be measured by known sedimentation rates, atomic decay of a host of elements, the eccentricity of the earths orbit which has various periods that can be traced to variations in sediments look it up AFD. One of the  Deadman links gives it....did you even read that?

Date: 2006/08/16 18:24:01, Link
Author: k.e
Someone said:
After we (laugh our asses off and) explain your unbelievable blooper to you in ten different ways, so that even a 5-year old would understand, what do you do? Do you admit your silly mistake?

A point well made since for people like AFD the only possibility they have of ever understanding it AS A 5 year old.

Which is MY MISSION AFD to poison the minds of  Fundy Spawn with the TRUTH.

Yes AFD THAT is my intention to further the evil athiest plot to rule the world ......oh you may fool yourself that you are winning but look at the results..... WE HAVE ALL THE SCIENTISTS :p.

Which means you lost.

Date: 2006/08/17 03:49:32, Link
Author: k.e
OK.  My church.  As soon as possible.  When will you be here?

Yeah Crabby ...H3ll's Teeth Church run by Cyclops Dave....
I think you should show up.

When they herd the sheep in, all you have to do is gut one and put it's skin over you to get out and your scott free.

Date: 2006/08/17 04:04:12, Link
Author: k.e
A little mythology may be of use here Crabby
Cyclops (play)

Date: 2006/08/17 05:07:27, Link
Author: k.e
Time for a cold cup of STFU afd

3. How to Cope with a Narcissist?

Administer a modicum of narcissistic treatment (including verbal abuse) to the narcissist - and he/she is likely to vanish in a puff of indignant smoke. Narcissists shrivel, wither and die without Narcissistic Supply.

Humiliation, disagreement, criticism, comparison with others, mirroring the narcissist's behaviour - are all great ways of getting rid of narcissists.

Date: 2006/08/17 05:10:38, Link
Author: k.e
Time to up your Lithium AFD

Date: 2006/08/17 05:16:30, Link
Author: k.e
Cyclops Dave answer this question Why Does the Narcissist or Psychopath Keep Coming Back?

Date: 2006/08/17 05:35:14, Link
Author: k.e
I wouldn't worry too much dhogaza... McNeil likes a spot light even more than Sal .....he's a little miffed  that a twit like Sal can get 1 minute on 'international TV'  when he's actually is a friggin Professor at a really big time university.

Besides McNeil is well aware that Barnum's 1ST Axiom "Any publicity is good publicity" can only do his career good..... and Sal will still be shovelling elephant sh*t out the back of the big top.

Over at PT McNeil demonstrated he can handle himself..... Sal can blow as much smoke as he wants.

Date: 2006/08/17 06:02:31, Link
Author: k.e
So AFD glad too see you are still here.

Do you have a need to be WRONG al the time?

Why are you lying to kids on kids4lies ?

Why did your mommy drink?

It's on the WEB AFD your Mommy was an Alchoholic in fact I think it was in EB PROVE ME wrong.

Date: 2006/08/17 20:26:25, Link
Author: k.e
Jupiter said:
You're not simply irrational -- you're a-rational, a black hole of rationality. You are rational thought's antigen.

As I have discovered since the start of all this ID nonsense, AFD and the whole creo-nutcase movement are rationally irrational to the point of hyper-rationality.

If you asked AFD to do a literary analysis of say Kafka's "Metamorphosis" let alone the Flud Myth he just couldn't even begin.

His mind is physically wired only to accept objective facts, everything for him must be factualised(an internal cognitive reality that is projected onto the external world, essentially to reduce the existential pain of being...woe is me I'm going to die) and that is his weakest point.

For him the Flud IS fact, that is internal objective reality for him, the alternative for him is nihilism.

He simply is unable to trust his judgment of subjective matters, that has been removed  from him by his strict adherence to worshiping his parents moral codes via the Bible. The book is his subjective measure and it is not sure about anything, to kill or not, any crazy view can be supported via the bible or any sacred text for that matter.  

The sad thing is that nihilism IS the biggest single danger FROM Fundamentalists, if they can't make the world accept their view they invariably attempt to destroy it (before it destroys their reality), one way or the other.
Think McVeigh and Bin Ladin at the one extreme and the attempt to destroy science education(actually... it's tests for truth) at the other.

Why? No one listened to their cries for help. When they get an audience though what do they tell us?" The whole world hates them" and they love it, for them it provides their energy source in a twisted way.

Now when all the data/evidence/external objective reality show their reality does not exist, except in their minds, they cannot make the intuitive jump required to discard their internal objective reality(such as it is) do so would require them to destroy their ego's(be born again in religious psychological terms), they would literally lose their grip on reality (more than they already have), their whole identities would disappear, their personae are welded to a totally schizoid world view.

AFD had his ego destroyed as a child and refashioned into a hard core believer in the unbelievable.

That is why  he cannot afford to lose his tenuous grip on what is left for him.

He must, absolutely must, find any discordant information(thruthiness) that can support his fantasy/delusion no matter how wild or insane.

Even if that means giving new meaning to words  opposing his internal reality or world view.

Orwell fully realized this, he also realized language itself can be a trap and he distrusted the ability of language to properly communicate reality except in science.

AFD is physically incapable of transforming himself into a whole man, he will die as half a man.

Date: 2006/08/18 04:43:47, Link
Author: k.e
Improvious said:
No, actually I doubt very much that he knows on any conscious level.

Ah AFD don't listen to this I have to just let the guys know something so .....ah just stand over there for a minute..thanks.

Well guys AFD ...being a hyper-rationalist does know one thing, circular reasoning in it's true sense (begging the question) demolishes his god.

He's got that much, worked out.

Now since that is the problem for his little game he is trying to hammer that square peg into sciences data=>deduction round hole.

Now, as has been demonstrated, he hasn't quite worked out that circular reasoning doesn't actually mean connecting dots that look like a circle because he can't disassociate data from him they are one and the same. He has no imagination, his reality (The product of some very serious brainwashing) to him is as real as the rocks in the Grand Canyon.

Rather than going to his church, which while amusing and I personally would find it very gratifying to kick his ass around it (in the nicest possible way of course) the challenge should be for AFD to work as a geologist's assistant for a month then go into a lab where they do Radio metric dating. Like Boy George cleaning up the garbage in NY.

Having said that I know having met a couple of  geologists who are Christian Fundamentalists no amount of education can fix their problem.

Once they get past 5 years old they are gone, all they are waiting for is Armageddon and JC or Mohamed returning on a cloud of glory, God help us if they get the bomb.

Date: 2006/08/18 06:59:26, Link
Author: k.e
Hey AFD have you considered taking up something that better suits your personality, like sidewalk licking.

You would get the same attention, which you crave, people would laugh at you for being stupid, again something that fits your personality, the task would be as equally useless as the one you are engaged in now, it would be a win win situation for you and us.

Think about would taste the same for you, and you KNOW you would just LOVE IT.

Really AFD, you will win an award for all this, the man most in need of a BJ north of the Mexican Border

Date: 2006/08/18 07:10:11, Link
Author: k.e
AFD pontificates

blah blah blah.....PRE-supposed Evolutionary Time Scale

No AFD the Evolutionary time scale is proven fact.

Judge Jones said so and your whining, which is just a half baked attempt to disparage it, is illegal in science classes.

Go ahead try it, try to teach your BS is a science class see how far you get.

You know why AFD? it's not your stupid "RM is wrong", its because your alternative is Norman had a flud ...hang on I've forgotten... how does it go again?

Noman ...yes that's it...Noman built a boat.

Your alternative AFD is illegal science and just plain old bible thumping.

How do you like that?....sucker.

Date: 2006/08/18 18:18:17, Link
Author: k.e
AFD Do you consult your Bible for guidance on dating fossil stromatolites?

Obviously YES.

Duetostupidy 12:5 "Thou shalt not use mass spectrometry to date elements"

Denysis 2.8 "The lord said the machine that goes ping is the devils work"

Exodust 99 "Listen to the loony, for he is truly loony"

er ....maybe not that one.

Romans 7.6 "And Elijah said unto the fossil collector thou fossils don't exist, where upon the fossil collector produced a fossil , where upon Jeremiah giggled and all the children put their hands on Elijah to tried to heal him, Elijah left for Ur and was never seen again"

Date: 2006/08/18 20:28:21, Link
Author: k.e
The Garden of Forking Paths

Forking psychopaths and forking sociopaths.

Date: 2006/08/19 09:35:59, Link
Author: k.e
Of course I believe in miracles.  But God does not use them often.  He allows natural processes to operate most of the time.

I love it when these people unconsciously let 'god' speak through their own mouths.

AFD takes the chicken way out:

Of course I believe in miracles.

1. Some people may miraculously believe my lies
2. No fact is too firm not to explained by a miracle where my ignorance make me blind.
3. If I didn't my world would vanish.
4. They are very convenient when it comes to making insurance claims

But God does not use them often.
1. Otherwise that would devalue the rarity, who's gonna buy lottery tickets if the same person keeps winning them.
2. When someone else from a competing cult makes such an outrageous claim I can safely scoff.

He allows natural processes to operate most of the time.

Unless I decide them/she/he didn't.

Date: 2006/08/19 09:44:05, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah AFD's "Primary Age" is just classic, it reminds me of argueing with a 15 year old.

"But, but, you can't say that, that's not what it means"


Because that's not what I want it to mean

It would never stand up in court

I'm only a child

Ignorance, AFD is not a defense.

Date: 2006/08/19 10:13:51, Link
Author: k.e
Steve S.

Watch you back, I might use a twisted non sequitur to baffle your belfry bats. ...oops.

A very revealing post by Dense Denies and surprisingly good quality replies.

What's happening over there?

Did someone leave the door of the loony bin ajar and curious sight seers come in for a look?

DOL ...ah what a Doll ....manages to lump Sinatra in with Darwin .......where is this going?

Sinatra was an atheist and a materialist?

Darwin could have been a crooner till he was 80 if only there were TelePrompters in the late 19th Century?

And besides he was in that fashionable buggy set very hip around London at that time "The  Galapagos Rat Pack"

Next she'll be saying even though Sinatra didn't have a beard that STILL doesn't mean he's relevant.

(That was for you Steve S. :>)

Date: 2006/08/19 12:52:34, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah I'll go along with that AFD.

Your god , it planted the garden of edin and waited what? 5 ,10 years for all the trees to grow then it planted adam and waited say 25 years then ripped out a rib and planted it for Eve and waited until she grew breasts say 16 years.


Kinda throws out your time-table there old boy

No wait it took a handfull of dirt and..and..and.

No Wait it created everything except water then night and day (no mention of dusk) when it would have much easier just to say make a sun.

Fairy tales Davey.

Date: 2006/08/20 02:16:59, Link
Author: k.e
Well I've finally worked AFD out.

He's thicker than 2 short planks on prozac.

Doesn't touch alcohol...hmmmm...mommy have two many Martini's before dinner eh davey?..did she indulge in mixed double's south of the border?
Even if she didn't, it doesn't matter.

You are tighter than a fishes arsehole, and stupider than a very stupid rock.

Date: 2006/08/20 03:24:29, Link
Author: k.e
Bloody h3ll, the quality of the BathroonWall is declining. Hurd I know is a total nutcase, whom, strangely I agree with: but he was only quoting Shaw; what is the world coming two ...or one?

Date: 2006/08/20 03:44:45, Link
Author: k.e
Well I've hoisted few for the true believers, not u AFD u complete bag of sheep's droppings or fertilizer whether u like it or knots.

A bag full of weasels...I like it.

So if one is given the choice of the lesser of two weasels does one choose
a)The hear and know
b)Or b) the inanity of nihilistic nobody-ism of  the long distance creationist waiting for re-fertilization.

Personally IDGaF. The worms will get the best bits.

Date: 2006/08/20 03:48:14, Link
Author: k.e
Lenny u quack me up!!!

GO boy!!!!!

Date: 2006/08/20 04:01:39, Link
Author: k.e
Look I'm  not one given to much sentimentalism,  but:
Lenny states:

To Matt Duss and Tim Rhodes, who originally leaked the Wedge Document to the Internet. They did far more to protect democracy than they ever could have realized at the time.

Matt and Tim  deserve the highest accolades of liberal activism (even IF they are conservatives, and I don't think  too many true conservatives will disagree with me ).

Matt and Tim I owe you one, thanks.

Date: 2006/08/20 04:06:00, Link
Author: k.e
Well,  Wes I would like to think ,is one of those true  conservatives I was hinting at.

Date: 2006/08/20 18:01:19, Link
Author: k.e
Lies4kids AFD projects:

O my dear "cak," but I not HAVE learned!!  I have not learned much about the self delusion of the Evo-mind Creationist and I have not learned that most people come to a place like this to justify their skepticism point out the bleeding obvious.  I guess that includes you, eh?  IOW ... AFD Loves Misery !

AFD define circular reasoning and why it is false reasoning.

Do you know the rules of evidence AFD?
Are you prepared to swear on a bible to tell the truth?

No, I thought not.

Date: 2006/08/20 18:21:44, Link
Author: k.e
Lies4kids AFD projects:

O my dear "cak," but I not HAVE learned!!  I have not learned much about the self delusion of the Evo-mind Creationist and I have not learned that most people come to a place like this to justify their skepticism point out the bleeding obvious.  I guess that includes you, eh?  IOW ... AFD Loves Misery !

AFD define circular reasoning and why it is false reasoning.

Do you know the rules of evidence AFD?
Are you prepared to swear on a bible to tell the truth?

No, I thought not.

For those interested in a deeper analysis of circular reasoning and how AFD is undermining the meaning of lanuage have a look at this

Cognitive science; Circular reasoning. Dept of Psychology Northwestern University by Lance J Rips

Date: 2006/08/21 06:14:07, Link
Author: k.e

If AFD does go down to the GC to see where the teddy bears had their picnic don't forget your icepick DM.


Sick jokes aside.

Seriously now AFD IF you were truly interested in doing that I would recommend it..... if you were prepared to drop your presuppositions and learn with an open mind from someone who is trained to identify and categorize objectively.

I did a short course with an oil well logging company many years ago as a 'mud logger' and while my background is in electronics most of the people on the course had studied one of the earth sciences and had a huge advantage over me.
They knew what shale and dolomite was right off the bat. You should brush up on your chemistry.

So don't expect to go there 'to be enlightened' or even 'to debunk'.

I have also worked in system support for oil companies setting up some of the software they use for seismic  processing, petrochemical analysis (wire line logging), mapping, core analysis, Palynology (the study of fossilized pollen used to date core samples) and the software they use to study the 'chemical kitchens' deep under ground that make the crude from organic matter deposited millions of years ago. They only drill when all the data is in and even then there are no guarantees.

Here is a very simple explanation of how crude oil forms suitable for AFD's lies4kids site.

Discover Petroleum  

Date: 2006/08/21 06:31:01, Link
Author: k.e
Ghost what's going on?
The girls washing their hair?
Isn't that the perfect opportunity to find some new talent?
Remember Opporknockity only tunes once (look it up.... also known as the cold rice pudding joke0

On the subject of AFD and law suits wouldn't it be wonderful if a class action could be brought against creationists for libeling honest science.

Date: 2006/08/22 05:34:00, Link
Author: k.e
(From Dembski): ......  Sophophile: Two points before you are booted: (1) the burden of proof is on the chance worshippersto show that natural selection has the creative power attributed to it in building, say, molecular machines — we already know that intelligence can build machines, including nanomachines; (2) the issue is not the number of articles or books cited, but their quality and detail in demonstrating that Darwinian paths exist to such systems.

Good bye.


Holy WTF ......Willy?  .......are you there?

So your 'superior intelligent creator' ..giggle..snort.... is you?


(can I suggest you check your projector before hitting return)

Crikey if little Willy's 'intelligence' can only build machines WHERE does he get the 'souls' from?

oh...right...... that box over there marked 'heels'.

nihilistic deux ex machina  ......the very thing they accuse us of.

Next week Bill visits the Museum for Old Gods (MOG) and fascinates over Baal v0.9 an interesting model of bronze age god that long before the invention of clockwork was animated by a clever system of water wheels connected by ropes and pulleys to a set of gold eyelids that would wink to the gathered masses.

The gold eyelids were long gone, however, revealing masterful craftsmanship that must have seemed very convincing 2500 years ago, much like a 747 does to the masses today.....They don't care how it works, they just pay their money and climb the ladder.

Interesting handle sophophile.

In "The creation of Adam" (Rome, Vatican, Sistine Chapel) by Michelangelo....yes the past icon of "Industrial Deception" replaced by nano-smoke stacks of the god machine makers.

Some say the female figure within God’s left arm is Sophia or "Divine Wisdom" and that Michelangelo’s source was the Bible, specifically Proverbs 8:22-31.

Sadly Dembski lacks both intelligence AND wisdom.

But hey ....what a Divine Comedian in the mold (not mould) of one of Dante's characters.

Date: 2006/08/22 08:08:26, Link
Author: k.e
Hey lies4kids AFD here is an indispensable link for website.

God Commits Suicide

Date: 2006/08/22 08:17:41, Link
Author: k.e
DM can you post that link to the ex fundy geologists paper that talked about the worm holes in various layers of sediment again?

I've tried to find it but there is too much to search thru.

If it's not to hand don't worry.

Date: 2006/08/22 08:35:48, Link
Author: k.e
BWE no you are not wrong.

Only one peice of the geological evidence is needed to disprove AFD's claim.

The most devestating disproof is his alternative, a mere myth.

The more he trys, the more fantastic his myth becomes.

He turns a childrens story which warns them to obey the higher powers on morality , their parents and their parents ancestors, into a crude delusional cartoon.

Date: 2006/08/22 08:44:21, Link
Author: k.e
DM thanks, that will help.

Date: 2006/08/22 09:34:35, Link
Author: k.e
FAAAARK DT does invective AND stupidity in one post....oh.....waitaminute.

So a GA that designs a new  antenna, has the solution (not the method) before it starts....yeah ok.

Sort of like Creationists saying we are here with arms that don't reach the ground because the ant farmer in the sky, knew the perfect length for arms before there WERE arms....right.

DT wouldn't know a GA if one bit him on the arse.

Date: 2006/08/22 09:50:48, Link
Author: k.e
Slatavor Dorkova a nearly famous person,
once wrote on a blog that will be long forgotten in another few minutes, in  his inimitable style of bass ackwords projection. But then he does think the sun shines out of his creationist blind spot.

They deny the sky Evolution is even possible, let alone bluetrue. There’s no use trying to convince someone that the sky is blue Evolution is true if they don’t believe a sky Evolution is possible.

While Darwin will be remembered (famous) at least as long as Socrates.

Date: 2006/08/22 18:48:11, Link
Author: k.e
egbooth that quote of JAD's is an absolute classic.

Along the lines of

Have you ever seen a dog evolve in to a cat ?

Right and have you ever seen a river change it's course or an inland sea deposit limestone 100's of feet thick then have the sea vanish and then have the limestone covered by volcanic ash or a mountain range grow where previously there was a sea between continents.

The whole ID crowd have absolutely no idea of time and it's relation to nature.

Earthquakes are just something that happens on the 6 o'clock news and volcanoes are in 3rd world countries.

It's as if they all grew up in a mall watching TV their whole lives.

Their whole mindspace is cluttered with industrial consumerism.

They probably think milk comes out of a bottle....the neatest trick when showing someone how to hand milk a cow is to squirt them in the face...always good for a laugh.

Here's one, where do black sheep come from, if the parents were all white?

Hey JAD why don't fish swim bacwards and why is my finger perfectly proportioned to fit in my nose?

Date: 2006/08/23 05:04:51, Link
Author: k.e

Thank you , thank you, I'll be in the lounge all this week


I was humming along to your song DM ....then hit you MCing yourself with humility.  LOL. Very Dennis Potter. (UK Pennys from Heaven and The Singing Detective)

...almost up with there with your (sadly ..deleted by you) imaginary James Bondesque seduction of DOL... which I still think was your best post, the science isn't bad too.

Date: 2006/08/23 05:15:41, Link
Author: k.e
Let me fix your projection and denial there... lies4kids AFD:

(Except for some who have now realized that Creationists Darwinists were right all along and have become "Closet Catastrophists Evolutionists" -- "closet" because they still want to be accepted at the cocktail parties.  Quotes from these people were given, oh, 60 pages ago or so ... Glenn Morton and others, for example)

Date: 2006/08/23 05:23:59, Link
Author: k.e


AFD loads for duck, fires, blows foot off, then aims:

Soils that formed at the end of the Flood and at the beginning of the post-Flood period could have been buried by subsequent geological processes such as flooding, volcanism, and wind blown processes. These would be true paleosols. In fact, the whole idea of paleosols was first developed by geomorphologists and soil scientists to explore soils in the Quaternary. The study of these post-Flood soils was then extended throughout geologic time to more ancient rocks based on the assumption of uniformitarianism.22

NO problems .....which palesol on what layer MARKS the FLUD AFD AND WHAT IS THE DATE OF THAT LAYER

Over to you


Date: 2006/08/23 05:30:52, Link
Author: k.e
Lies4kids AFD said something not quite true

He just wants to expand it as much as he can to make it look like three separate issues, thus making creationists look as stupid as he possibly can.

And you know what AFD ?  You are doing a fantastic job of that yourself.

That's all flying fart, carry on .

Date: 2006/08/23 05:45:03, Link
Author: k.e
More projection from lies4kids AFD:

The conventional BIBLICAL GLOBAL FLUD  demarcations are simply made up based upon the assumption of Long Ages CREATIONISTS.  Period.

Date: 2006/08/23 06:24:48, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah. DM great shows and great music.
Potter was a genius.
Here in the antipodes we are just getting 'Extras' by Ricky Gervais more understated British side splitting hilarity.

AFD provides a pathological hilarity unparalled in the universe, and the REALLY funny thing is HE doesn't get it. It's like a cornucopia stupidity.

Date: 2006/08/24 03:32:38, Link
Author: k.e
Hitler also thought thought everyone should have their own Porsche of Stuttgart.Panzerkampfwagen VI Sd.Kfz 182's

What a guy, mind you.... if it wasn't for his desire to rule the world he could have been a briliant biologist just like our wabble wousing mench WAD.

Hail Kaiser William A. Dembski and his seven seditious southern sychophants.....(spoken with a lisp).

What next from Chez Dumbster ...perhaps a beer hall putsch  in Midland Texas?

That will go down a treat in the halls of the DI.

Brown shirts anyone?

Date: 2006/08/24 03:50:09, Link
Author: k.e
I could still whip the snot out of it but that’s because I knew exactly what it was thinking and that’s enough of an advantage to nullify the card counting.

No wonder he thinks he's god (or 'The One True God's TM  representative or more precisely sychophant to 'The One True God's TM  representative ...WADski) he just goes behind the curtain and pulls the levers ..or grows mushooms...or ..boring.

Date: 2006/08/24 04:30:01, Link
Author: k.e
One word "Mamon".

Not to be confused with mommy (or communism) which in most households is pretty much a totalitarian state.

Sorry Mom, you know I love you.

Date: 2006/08/24 05:07:55, Link
Author: k.e
Bing ... you hit on one of my favorite topics ... the Roman Catholic Church.  The answer to your question is that I think the RCC began losing their way when Constantine legalized Christianity.
around what 350-550ce

....Fucking priceless.

Geez louise.....Oh man I can't go on.

What next 1500 year old Baptists, Calvinists, Whatsits, Whyfores, Wherethefuckarewe's.

AFD you have the floor proceed, waitress bring me more beer ...WTF.... bring me the entire output of  Con's Byzantium Brewery's for 200 years ..if you please.

Date: 2006/08/24 05:11:43, Link
Author: k.e
In fact, I will become an evolutionist if I can become convinced that the evidence warrants it.  Try me.

reverse slippery slope arguement , cute lies4kids AFD,


Date: 2006/08/24 06:02:31, Link
Author: k.e
Rocinante rider.... that post on pandagon was just what the doctor ordered..

Dr. Squid
Aug 21st, 2006 at 11:49 pm

First thing I thought of was temple garments for kids. Or more derisively, magic underpants.

Second thing I was reminded of was when someone up there mentioned a washcloth, and that’s the Moonie Holy Cumrag.

Autistic Flud Dave doesn't do normal.

Why do you guys spell the Flood "FLUD" or "fludde" ... is there some insult in there that I am supposed to get?

Also, I will not stand up in front of my church and make announcements because my Pastor would not allow it ... he would not allow you either, so I will simply agree to post my most humble apologies here on the forum if I am wrong.

yes the the good "Rev Doc." Lovejoy can smell craziness with a big C.

Sooooo ... convince me that my worldview is wrong and yours is correct.

Don't have to just is ......after almost 200 hundred pages.

You said where they are?  Fine.  I missed it.  Wanna tell me again?  Or are you afraid to now that I know too much?  I'll cover limestone when I get ready to.  We're covering other topics now.

hahahaha avoid avoid avoid

ah..ha you can't see me I'm AFD super liar.

geez .....lies4kids AFD didn't you ever grow up?

What?  You mean you don't realize that it was Ignatius of Antioch who died c. 108 AD that first applied the term "Catholic" to the Christian church?  Oxygen, k.e.

Now observe everyone...

Hey pizzle dik.......lies4kids AFD .......what was Ignatius of Antioch a Baptist, Calvinist, Whatsit, Whyfore or a Wherethefuckarewe.??

Now I predict lies4kids AFD will NOT answer this question.

Prove me wrong AFD

Date: 2006/08/24 07:28:35, Link
Author: k.e
Très Bon; Glenn

Pim and MacNeil are indeed question begging.

Doesn't worry me much, a little sauce on the grand fromage, is all goose for the gander and all that.

What amuses me is that for all their bluster the gap they are trying to force fog into the flubber sees them dancing around the lab in an almost spandau ballet.

Oh well the yanks may have won the cold war and brought 'gad' to those Ruski's  but who's laughing.

The Garden Of Eden

Date: 2006/08/24 07:33:07, Link
Author: k.e
I think that the way Dembski et al have been reduced to such pitiful rhetorical bottom-feeding really underlines how they have hit intellectual bankruptcy on the scientific front and have no other ammunition in their arsenal.

Whoa there boy.

That statement implies they had intellectual capital to begin with.

tch tch.

Date: 2006/08/24 07:53:08, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Autistic faud Dave you are losing your touch.

I come here to laugh at you and DM beats you hands down.

He's craking me up and you?

WTF  photo geology AFD? ... piss weak

give us some Dueterstupidity 900 proof.


please please please get me some real denial going here are backsliding, you are on a slippery slope, DANGER DANGER.

Don't listen to those weak kneed counter creobots ...get me some hard core stuff.

AIG?.... bah.... what a bunch of pussies.

Get me the real stuff AFD, you freak.

Go on ....fludless you say? ...pah I've smoked better.

Date: 2006/08/24 07:59:25, Link
Author: k.e
Ah Glen of your more readable posts.
I heartily agree.

ah..ehem..ur...tch...shuffle.. rubs nose...looks at feet...

wrong thread.

{edit ---bugger make that the previous post... PIM and MacNeil}

{the second one is right up there tho, I didn't understand the Nietzsche  -Hitler connection previously I got all my 1920's German culture from "Cabaret" and Mel Brooks ...blush}

Date: 2006/08/24 08:22:09, Link
Author: k.e
Oh I can just see it now ....sad AFD at the laundramat, 3 in the morning at some cheap skanky low rent doss house feeding in coins and friss reducers for his satin dancin' gear before having to get up for the 1pm fat businessmens show at the AIG clip joint....where he gets cash tucked into his frilleys by the little be continued.

Date: 2006/08/24 08:47:55, Link
Author: k.e
Pathetic...lies4kids/spelling marm AFD belches:-
k.e. ...
He's craking me up and you?  
How do you "crake" someone up?  Oxygen, k.e

Say 'part' backwards AFD ...yes it's a taarp.

But pole dance away there boy.

Date: 2006/08/24 17:53:49, Link
Author: k.e
Lies4kids Audacious Fraud Dave says

Nice links Jon.  They show how to date grains of IGNEOUS origin

Oh so you agree RM dating proves IGNEOUS rocks are older than 6000 years.

Why didn't you just say that?

When did the big bang happen AFD.?

How old are the 20k-35k year old cave paintings in France?

Why didn't the more than 100,000 year old Greenland icecap melt when your super heated hidrawlick fludde water covered it ?

Where did all the excess water go?

What geologic layer marks your fludde and why did the processes (over time) after that layer change with respect to the layers before.

IF your fairy tale fludde took place at the layer you pick then that dates every other layer both above AND below .......AFD, so be very careful.


Date: 2006/08/25 04:00:53, Link
Author: k.e
Chris my summary goes like this.

MacNeil said nobody changed their minds BEFORE telling everyone that only one 'confessing' IDer showed up the other was invited .....Triple Major and Sancho Sal's enchanted Dulcinea...Hannah Maxson ..whom I suggested had to have had  a hot arse (L.H.O.O.Q) otherwise what would be the point.

The PT crew said nyah nyah told u so.

Popper's protoplasm ticked everyone off for being boreholes.

PIM ticked PG off for being an AH.

PG won everyones heart by ticking off Lenny (again) Pim and MacNeil ....yah PG.

Unregistered User gutted someone or something ....yah RU.

Lenny made MacNeil invoke Godwin after 200 posts and claimed a new .....or not.

Pim and MacNeil wondered aimlessly around some postmodernist urban landscape of politeness talking to the walking wounded..... Big Tent Question Beggars of the First Order a la Seinfeld's Bizzaro World

Every time MacNeil was called to account he tossed some meat to the wolves in the form of Evolutionary Psychology papers detailing his view religions(or more precisely mythological world views) are behind wars from paleolithic times...which someone picked him up on and he failed to reply.

He did go on about politeness A did Pim.

I chimed in near the end and tried to draw a few snipers PG chickened out or lost interest.

Lenny shot them through both eyes with a beauty right at the end

Sorry to all the Steve's who remain unmentioned but contributed valuably and various others you know who you are.

STJ said it was a train wreck...but what a beautiful wreck.

Thank you...thank you...I'll be available for international TV interviews provided plane tickets are supplied with stopovers in Rio outward bound and return.

Date: 2006/08/25 04:11:57, Link
Author: k.e
If I was dancing on a table it was because we needed rain and dang it the waitress pinched me first so it was quid pro quo!

Yeah Crabby, waitresses find me ireeseestable as well.

Pity I'm across the Pacific, you guys could do with some serious mischief.

Date: 2006/08/26 23:20:58, Link
Author: k.e
Looks like you're moonlighting as a writer for the Onion Richard :> ....more
Despite his innumerable achievements, Hapner faces many experts who remain skeptical and have even declared his findings corrupt, irrational, irresponsible, and unscientific.

"It's true that I've been condemned and ridiculed by the world's most prominent chemists, as well as by a good number of amateur hobbyists," Hapner said as he rubbed a balloon on his head to demonstrate a basic principle of hydrodynamics. "But then, wasn't Einstein ridiculed when he unveiled his theory of relativity, or Copernicus when he posited that the Earth revolved around the sun? True, I have since proved them both wrong, but at least they took risks."

The nuttiness of the BeheDembskiNelsonWellsBerlinski-tards of the world, does in fact call into question all scientific findings to the extent that IF their pseudoscience was true it would prove not just Einstein and Copernicus wrong but ALL science wrong.

Now of course they would try to deny this fact, since they know themselves and the whole world knows they do not have the 'Intelligence' to prove either Einstein or Copernicus wrong (except AFD who thinks they are all wrong...snicker) but they ARE in effect saying that the METHOD that Einstein and Copernicus used, is invalid.

What if Einstein and Copernicus had said "Hmmm ....X looks designed and cannot be simplified ...thus we call it an artifact of Y"..which (apparently) is the Gospel of John stated magicmatically or *insert favorite deity* or Little Extraterrestrial Creatures which have not EVER been seen..... except by UFO crazies.

Taking their new 'scientific method' to its logical conclusion they do in fact end up in AFD's insanity impervious to reason and thus totally irrelevant....hence the desperation of trying to connect Hitler and Darwin...they should have stopped when they were ahead .....Hitler was a leader who used religious fervor and martyrdom to drive his mania.

Date: 2006/08/27 02:57:33, Link
Author: k.e
Dang no mammals in the Morrison?

Lemme see ......k.e. takes a stupid pill and reads Genesis(giggle.... I feel like Berlinski talking about myself in the third person).

OK god invented mammals after the fludde except goats, sheep and men and women (which for AFD pretty much are the same thing .....all available for milking and fleecing money from).

Just a quick question AFD what was the average life span of dinosaurs and how many begats of dinosaurs were there before the fairy fludde.

what was your time line again

Year 0 ...Genesis
Year 1500....Flud.

So each dino say had say a 20 year life span and  there were 75 generations of dino by fludde time. ...right?

So over the 1st 74 generations of dino .....they got buried somewhere right?

Now please date each layer of dinos before the fludde and show where the humans and other mammals were buried with those dinos.

Should be very easy AFD there were only 1500 years right.

Don't worry about those lying paleos AFD who say the dinos were wiped out 65Million years ago.

Just show us all here what year the dinos were buried and you CAN'T use RM ......remember that's wrong.

Date: 2006/08/27 06:29:32, Link
Author: k.e

(I need to call that Berkeley lab sometime and really get some firsthand info on RM dating)

Oh that's rich hhehhehehehhe.

why bother DikHedDav ?

Just go to the nearest Creationist LAB .......arsehole.

Date: 2006/08/27 07:16:31, Link
Author: k.e
Wes, I got an SQL error page which showed your password as a 3 letter word.

You may want to change it

Date: 2006/08/27 07:53:04, Link
Author: k.e
If Darwin were generally agreed to be a plagiarist and an all-around Bad Guy, nothing would change, any more than the recognition that Newton was a generally unpleasant fellow who stole credit from Leibnitz and Hooke

but ...but...He WAS 'an all-around Bad Guy' ......why he was  resposible for Hitler AND Global Warming.

In the first case Hitler mentioned 'god' thousands of times in his speaches so Darwin was OBVIOUSLY to blame .......NOT 'god'.

And in the second case IF Darwin WAS right then Global Warming MUST be right because those if those pesky scientists WERE right about Darwin then 'god' better show up quick before all the Oil runs out and all the ice melts.

Look don't ask difficult questions, you know it makes sense, you can just feel it.

Date: 2006/08/27 08:05:36, Link
Author: k.e
My answer is F for Failed. ID Failed as a long term political ploy to

1.Change the definition of science to include Unicorns/Mythology/Pseudoscience
2.Change the Constitution (not that that is going to stop them trying)
3. Introduce back door 'teach the contoversy'.
4. Produce peer reviewed 'scientific' publications.

Date: 2006/08/27 18:30:22, Link
Author: k.e

And I responded with "yeah, a MIGHTY RUSHING river" as in a Global Flood -- one ENORMOUS river.  

That mixed up all the Sinners, Elephants, Dinosaurs, Rats, Rabbits, Hyaenae,  Unicorns, Dragons, Oxen, Giraffes, extinct trees, Trilobites (yes trilobites got trapped as well). Into one big pile at the bottom of the canyon for which AFD has the pictures.....yes folks...real photos, NO CARTOONS it true.

All running down from one huge mountain..... Mount Purgatory and disappeared down a hole in China because the inside of the earth was hollow then and now its full of water just look up EB.

God pulled out the plug and all the water went down the plug hole he put the plug back in before all the water went down the hole and that hole is now a popular tourist attraction just look up google.

No no wait the Orinoco ran backwards up hill and the Nile just stopped and waited for the Amazon to flush out all the mud which left this huge canyon...true...gods earthmoving firm 'Satan's Holy Fillers' used millions of South Americans, who he saved from the flud to fill in the Great Amazon Canyon and then he drowned them all so Noah and his sailors had the world to themselves.

No No wait all the water piled up in the middle of the Atlantic and gawrd scooped it up in his cosmic bucket an made it into Pluto. (he suspended gravity while he did this).

Hence the little know fable "The day gravity was suspended" all the writings for this floated out to with the atmosphere ....the birds had to walk around while this was going no no wait he just suspended gravity locally.....snicker

So AFD Dino's were on the ark eh? What happened to them?

If the frozen remains of Mastodons (20,000 years old) have been found in Siberia why not frozen  Dinosaurs only 3500 years old? ...RIGHT????

Date: 2006/08/28 05:05:40, Link
Author: k.e

...oooooooooooh another color picture!

With green.

Hey AFD where are the frozen dinosaurs?

Where are the Amazon, Nile, Congo, Murray, Olga, Volga, Rein, Yellow, Me Kong, Ganges river canyons (all from memory DHDAVE) Canyons?

How can all the worlds Uranium which has a half life of 4.9 Billion years be half depleted?

Date: 2006/08/28 05:11:20, Link
Author: k.e
 o H I  gEt iT afD y o u think T r e e s GROW under G R O U N D

No problems, do birds fly underground as well?

Date: 2006/08/28 05:43:51, Link
Author: k.e
Where are all the dinosaurs mixed up with those trees AssFrigDave?

And I'm waiting on Frozen Dinosaurs with Mastodons..

Oppps wait .........MOST of the dino's died out 65 Million years ago and the fozen Mastodaons ARE 20,ooo plus years old.

Dang AFD...... 1000 foot limestone?...bwhahahahahaha.

Date: 2006/08/28 05:50:22, Link
Author: k.e
Let me fix that for you AFD

It is only for courageous, independent thinking people who want the truth  only for cowardly, dependent unthinking people who want the lies
about everything no matter what the cost to their sanity[/s]

Date: 2006/08/28 06:21:27, Link
Author: k.e
ericmurphy said:

And you (AFD)still don't know where the water from your "flood" came from, do you?

or .....where it went to...AFD?


Remember why I came here?  To learn.  Mission is being accomplished.


Just like schrubby landing on a carrier in the Pacific...snicker

This is free right?

Hey AFD guess what GWB HAS LOST IRAQ .........suck that down.

Date: 2006/08/28 06:24:45, Link
Author: k.e
Hey AFD Vietnam remember? THE YANKS LOST.

Date: 2006/08/28 06:30:43, Link
Author: k.e
AFD said:

etc, etc, etc.

Holy sh*t AFD did you get away with that in your undergrad degree (barf) ?

Where did you you get it?

Date: 2006/08/28 06:35:40, Link
Author: k.e
Pim and MacNeil ?

Date: 2006/08/28 07:04:10, Link
Author: k.e
AFD....Keep it up ...loser

Date: 2006/08/29 02:25:35, Link
Author: k.e
Now gawds mafia prepare to capture the ID brand name.

Pope Benedict XVI may reportedly embrace the theory of intelligent design, possibly heralding a fundamental shift in the Vatican's view of evolution.

This is going to be fun.

Date: 2006/08/29 02:34:12, Link
Author: k.e
Just refresh us all here AutisticFraudDave.

How about reprinting all the answers to the 50 questions that ALL can be shown to support your

Hypothesis that magical forces rather than well understood observable natural events manufactured your delusional rantings.

( sounds of ducks f@rking)

I thought so.

Date: 2006/08/29 04:10:08, Link
Author: k.e
You have not in fact, answered any of the questions listed. Go back and choose a few that you say you have answered. Post the answers.

I'm not going to re-post answers unless there is a benefit to my purposes for being here.

let me fix that for you AFD

I'm not going to re-post answers show myself up as an inadequete fraud twice in a row unless there is a benefit to my purposes for being here. when I can just lie my way out anyway

Date: 2006/08/29 04:34:35, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah well it will be intersting watching the fundies deny that 'id/creationism  isn't religion' when the CC says 'we need to embrace id/creationism atheists are darwinists  and goddit not evolution'.

Gallileo will be spinning in his grave.

The CC will bring in their own version of creationism which seems to be some sort of fire cracker lighter for the big bang that retired soon after.

Next the CC will be saying the ark was real.

But why should they stay out of all the fun ?.....there is enough ridicule for all of them.

Date: 2006/08/29 04:40:25, Link
Author: k.e
Your guesses have been shown wrong consistently,  

Actually, my guesses have been proven to be right so far in many cases.


Show just ONE of your guesses THAT HAS NOT BEEN REFUTED AFD.

Were're all waiting AFD ......NOW is your chance.

Date: 2006/08/29 06:59:51, Link
Author: k.e
Yup the old joke

Which came first the Chicken or the Egg?

Where did Adam's DNA come from and how old was he, when he was born ?....(and Adult is NOT a valid answer)

or for Old earth creationists

Where did the DNA for the first replicating cells come from, and how old was the replicated cell when it first replicated?...(and Adult is NOT a valid answer)

The answer is the same in both instances and that  answer produces a question.

And so on ......until there is a question that cannot be answered presently

Choose either of these answers to the fundamental unanswered question.

A)I don't know and I'm happy to wait for better (material)results.

B)I know goddidit and I know what god is because my ancestors all the way back to Adam told me and I'm not happy to wait for better (material)results.

Date: 2006/08/29 07:47:15, Link
Author: k.e
ericmurphy said:
I guarantee that you(AFD) will never, ever post a link to this thread on any site you use for spreading your lies and propaganda.

Stop there ...right there.

OK AFD time to pay the bill.

You have 'won'. All you have to do is link to this thread to 'prove' you have won your arguements.

No.? lost ....sucker!!!

Date: 2006/08/29 08:49:07, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah GCT for a change I waded through the UCD swamp as well.

Dembski was able to string together the longest non-sequitur I have ever read, he'll never ever be able to wear a condom, there is just no end to the prick.

"We One True IDists™" Get to say what the thruthiness of ID is and the (ancient) CC can just take a running monk.

...ah so presumably by that he means

hi ho, hi ho, it's off to the DI lab .....or DI astronomical observatory we go

Then the rest resonate under his piousness with a whole lot of 'god did it this way' or 'god did it that way' because 'chance' didn't have a ........chance.

They should start worshiping chance if they think that 'god' made life. The irony would be lost on them.

Date: 2006/08/29 17:22:47, Link
Author: k.e
Bing ...right on!!

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 29 2006,17:55)
While the story is juicy, that post of mine was perhaps a little improper. This is, not 60 Minutes. We should focus here on Dave's fraudulent science, and ignore whatever fraudulent financial dealings he may be involved in.

I respectfully disagree.  I think each shows the extent to which Dave is willing to go irrespective of evidence contrary to his deeply held beliefs.  Both are a measure of his character.

This AFD is a real piece of work.

He hasn't the slightest scruples.

The Church is $15m in the red and the parishioners are left holding the baby.

The honest thing to do would be to step aside.

But that wouldn't mesh with his needs as someone aflicted with NPD.

That must be some cult.

It's a pity they can't be informed that his personality makes him a patholoigical liar and he is completely untrustworthy.

I wonder if someone will sue?

Date: 2006/08/30 08:03:26, Link
Author: k.e
Oh I see AFD is back from lying to the congregation to come and do some more lying here.

Post a link to this thread, AFD to your lies4kids know prove you have 'won'..go on what's the problem. Chicken?

Date: 2006/08/30 09:03:05, Link
Author: k.e
Radiometric Dating, A Christian Perspective, Dr. Roger C. Wiens

Date: 2006/08/30 09:10:10, Link
Author: k.e
From link above

Can We Really Believe the Dating Systems?

We have covered a lot of convincing evidence that the Earth was created a very long time ago. The agreement of many different dating methods, both radiometric and non-radiometric, over hundreds of thousands of samples, is very convincing. Yet, some Christians question whether we can believe something so far back in the past. My answer is that it is similar to believing in other things of the past. It only differs in degree. Why do you believe Abraham Lincoln ever lived? Because it would take an extremely elaborate scheme to make up his existence, including forgeries, fake photos, and many other things, and besides, there is no good reason to simply have made him up. Well, the situation is very similar for the dating of rocks, only we have rock records rather than historical records. Consider the following:

There are well over forty different radiometric dating methods, and scores of other methods such as tree rings and ice cores.
All of the different dating methods agree--they agree a great majority of the time over millions of years of time. Some Christians make it sound like there is a lot of disagreement, but this is not the case. The disagreement in values needed to support the position of young-Earth proponents would require differences in age measured by orders of magnitude (e.g., factors of 10,000, 100,000, a million, or more). The differences actually found in the scientific literature are usually close to the margin of error, usually a few percent, not orders of magnitude!
Vast amounts of data overwhelmingly favor an old Earth. Several hundred laboratories around the world are active in radiometric dating. Their results consistently agree with an old Earth. Over a thousand papers on radiometric dating were published in scientifically recognized journals in the last year, and hundreds of thousands of dates have been published in the last 50 years. Essentially all of these strongly favor an old Earth.
Radioactive decay rates have been measured for over sixty years now for many of the decay clocks without any observed changes. And it has been close to a hundred years since the uranium-238 decay rate was first determined.
Both long-range and short-range dating methods have been successfully verified by dating lavas of historically known ages over a range of several thousand years.
The mathematics for determining the ages from the observations is relatively simple.
The last three points deserve more attention. Some Christians have argued that something may be slowly changing with time so all the ages look older than they really are. The only two quantities in the exponent of a decay rate equation are the half-life and the time. So for ages to appear longer than actual, all the half-lives would have to be changing in sync with each other. One could consider that time itself was changing if that happened (remember that our clocks are now standardized to atomic clocks!;). And such a thing would have to have occurred without our detection in the last hundred years, which is already 5% of the way back to the time

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of Christ.

Beyond this, scientists have now used a "time machine" to prove that the half-lives of radioactive species were the same millions of years ago. This time machine does not allow people to actually go back in time, but it does allow scientists to observe ancient events from a long way away. The time machine is called the telescope. Because God's universe is so large, images from distant events take a long time to get to us. Telescopes allow us to see supernovae (exploding stars) at distances so vast that the pictures take hundreds of thousands to millions of years to arrive at the Earth. So the events we see today actually occurred hundreds of thousands to millions of years ago. And what do we see when we look back in time? Much of the light following a supernova blast is powered by newly created radioactive parents. So we observe radiometric decay in the supernova light. The half-lives of decays occurring hundreds of thousands of years ago are thus carefully recorded! These half-lives completely agree with the half-lives measured from decays occurring today. We must conclude that all evidence points towards unchanging radioactive half-lives.

Some individuals have suggested that the speed of light must have been different in the past, and that the starlight has not really taken so long to reach us. However, the astronomical evidence mentioned above also suggests that the speed of light has not changed, or else we would see a significant apparent change in the half-lives of these ancient radioactive decays.

Doubters Still Try

Some doubters have tried to dismiss geologic dating with a sleight of hand by saying that no rocks are completely closed systems (that is, that no rocks are so isolated from their surroundings that they have not lost or gained some of the isotopes used for dating). Speaking from an extreme technical viewpoint this might be true--perhaps 1 atom out of 1,000,000,000,000 of a certain isotope has leaked out of nearly all rocks, but such a change would make an immeasurably small change in the result. The real question to ask is, "is the rock sufficiently close to a closed system that the results will be same as a really closed system?" Since the early 1960s many books have been written on this subject. These books detail experiments showing, for a given dating system, which minerals work all of the time, which minerals work under some certain conditions, and which minerals are likely to lose atoms and give incorrect results. Understanding these conditions is part of the science of geology. Geologists are careful to use the most reliable methods whenever possible, and as discussed above, to test for agreement between different methods.

Some people have tried to defend a young Earth position by saying that the half-lives of radionuclides can in fact be changed, and that this can be done by certain little-understood particles such as neutrinos, muons, or cosmic rays. This is stretching it. While certain particles can cause nuclear changes, they do not change the half-lives. The nuclear changes are well understood and are nearly always very minor in rocks. In fact the main nuclear changes in rocks are the very radioactive decays we are talking about.

There are only three quite technical instances where a half-life changes, and these do not affect the dating methods we have discussed.

1. Only one technical exception occurs under terrestrial conditions, and this is not for an isotope used for dating. According to theory, electron-capture is the most likely type of decay to show changes with pressure or chemical combination, and this should be most pronounced for very light elements. The artificially-produced isotope, beryllium-7 has been shown to change by up to 1.5%, depending on its chemical environment (Earth Planet. Sci. Lett. 171, 325-328, 1999; see also Earth Planet. Sci. Lett. 195, 131-139, 2002). In another experiment, a half-life change of a small fraction of a percent was detected when beryllium-7 was subjected to 270,000 atmospheres of pressure, equivalent to depths greater than 450 miles inside the Earth (Science 181, 1163-1164, 1973). All known rocks, with the possible exception of diamonds, are from much shallower depths. In fact, beryllium-7 is not used for dating rocks, as it has a half-life of only 54 days, and heavier atoms are even less subject to these minute changes, so the dates of rocks made by electron-capture decays would only be off by at most a few hundredths of a percent.

page 21

2. Physical conditions at the center of stars or for cosmic rays differ very greatly from anything experienced in rocks on or in the Earth. Yet, self-proclaimed "experts" often confuse these conditions. Cosmic rays are very, very high-energy atomic nuclei flying through space. The electron-capture decay mentioned above does not take place in cosmic rays until they slow down. This is because the fast-moving cosmic ray nuclei do not have electrons surrounding them, which are necessary for this form of decay. Another case is material inside of stars, which is in a plasma state where electrons are not bound to atoms. In the extremely hot stellar environment, a completely different kind of decay can occur. ' Bound-state beta decay' occurs when the nucleus emits an electron into a bound electronic state close to the nucleus. This has been observed for dysprosium-163 and rhenium-187 under very specialized conditions simulating the interior of stars (Phys. Rev. Lett., 69, 2164-2167; Phys. Rev. Lett., 77, 5190-5193, 1996). All normal matter, such as everything on Earth, the Moon, meteorites, etc. has electrons in normal positions, so these instances never apply to rocks, or anything colder than several hundred thousand degrees.

As an example of incorrect application of these conditions to dating, one young-Earth proponent suggested that God used plasma conditions when He created the Earth a few thousand years ago. This writer suggested that the rapid decay rate of rhenium under extreme plasma conditions might explain why rocks give very old ages instead of a young-Earth age. This writer neglected a number of things, including: a) plasmas only affect a few of the dating methods. More importantly, b) rocks and hot gaseous plasmas are completely incompatible forms of matter! The material would have to revert back from the plasma state before it could form rocks. In such a scenario, as the rocks cooled and hardened, their ages would be completely reset to zero as described in previous sections. If this person's scenario were correct, instead of showing old ages, all the rocks should show a uniform ~4,000 year age of creation. That is obviously not what is observed.

3. The last case also involves very fast-moving matter. It has been demonstrated by atomic clocks in very fast spacecraft. These atomic clocks slow down very slightly (only a second or so per year) as predicted by Einstein's theory of relativity. No rocks in our solar system are going fast enough to make a noticeable change in their dates.

These cases are very specialized, and all are well understood. None of these cases alter the dates of rocks either on Earth or other planets in the solar system. The conclusion once again is that half-lives are completely reliable in every context for the dating of rocks on Earth and even on other planets. The Earth and all creation appears to be very ancient.

Apparent Age?

It would not be inconsistent with the scientific evidence to conclude that God made everything relatively recently, but with the appearance of great age, just as Genesis 1 and 2 tell of God making Adam as a fully grown human (which implies the appearance of age). This idea was captured by Phillip Henry Gosse in the book, "Omphalos: An Attempt to Untie the Geological Knot", written just two years before Darwin's "Origin of Species". The idea of a false appearance of great age is a philosophical and theological matter that we won't go into here. The main drawback--and it is a strong one--is that this makes God appear to be a deceiver. However, some

page 22

people have no problem with this. Certainly whole civilizations have been incorrect (deceived?) in their scientific and theological ideas in the past. Whatever the philosophical conclusions, it is important to note that an apparent old Earth is consistent with the great amount of scientific evidence.

Rightly Handling the Word of Truth

As Christians it is of great importance that we understand God's word correctly. Yet from the middle ages up until the 1700s people insisted that the Bible taught that the Earth, not the Sun, was the center of the solar system. It wasn't that people just thought it had to be that way; they actually quoted scriptures: "The Earth is firmly fixed; it shall not be moved" (Psalm 104:5), or "the sun stood still" (Joshua 10:13; why should it say the sun stood still if it is the Earth's rotation that causes day and night?), and many other passages. I am afraid the debate over the age of the Earth has many similarities. But I am optimistic. Today there are many Christians who accept the reliability of geologic dating, but do not compromise the spiritual and historical inerrancy of God's word. While a full discussion of Genesis 1 is not given here, references are given below to a few books that deal with that issue.

As scientists, we deal daily with what God has revealed about Himself through the created universe. The psalmist marveled at how God, Creator of the universe, could care about humans: "When I consider Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have set in place, what is man that You are mindful of him, the son of man that You care for him?" (Psalm 8:3-4). Near the beginning of the twenty-first century we can marvel all the more, knowing how vast the universe is, how ancient are the rocks and hills, and how carefully our environment has been designed. Truly God is more awesome than we can imagine!
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APPENDIX: Common Misconceptions Regarding Radiometric Dating Methods

There are a number of misconceptions that seem especially prevalent among Christians. Most of these topics are covered in the above discussion, but they are reviewed briefly here for clarity.

1. Radiometric dating is based on index fossils whose dates were assigned long before radioactivity was discovered.

This is not at all true, though it is implied by some young-Earth literature. Radiometric dating is based on the half-lives of the radioactive isotopes. These half-lives have been measured over the last 40-90 years. They are not calibrated by fossils.

2. No one has measured the decay rates directly; we only know them from inference.

Decay rates have been directly measured over the last 40-100 years. In some cases a batch of the pure parent material is weighed and then set aside for a long time and then the resulting daughter material is weighed. In many cases it is easier to detect radioactive decays by the energy burst that each decay gives off. For this a batch of the pure parent material is carefully weighed and then put in front of a Geiger counter or gamma-ray detector. These instruments count the number of decays over a long time.

3. If the half-lives are billions of years, it is impossible to determine them from measuring over just a few years or decades.

The example given in the section titled, "The Radiometric Clocks" shows that an accurate determination of the half-life is easily achieved by direct counting of decays over a decade or shorter. This is because a) all decay curves have exactly the same shape (Fig. 1), differing only in the half-life, and b) trillions of decays can be counted in one year even using only a fraction of a gram of material with a half-life of a billion years. Additionally, lavas of historically known ages have been correctly dated even using methods with long half-lives.

4. The decay rates are poorly known, so the dates are inaccurate.

Most of the decay rates used for dating rocks are known to within two percent. Uncertainties are only slightly higher for rhenium (5%), lutetium (3%), and beryllium (3%), discussed in connection with Table 1. Such small uncertainties are no reason to dismiss radiometric dating. Whether a rock is 100 million years or 102 million years old does not make a great deal of difference.

5. A small error in the half-lives leads to a very large error in the date.

Since exponents are used in the dating equations, it is possible for people to think this might be true, but it is not. If a half-life is off by 2%, it will only lead to a 2% error in the date.

6. Decay rates can be affected by the physical surroundings.

This is not true in the context of dating rocks. Radioactive atoms used for dating have been subjected to extremes of heat, cold, pressure, vacuum, acceleration, and strong chemical reactions far beyond anything experienced by rocks, without any significant change. The only exceptions, which are not relevant to dating rocks, are discussed under the section, "Doubters Still Try", above.

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7. A small change in the nuclear forces probably accelerated nuclear clocks during the first day of creation a few thousand years ago, causing the spuriously old radiometric dates of rocks.

Rocks are dated from the time of their formation. For it to have any bearing on the radiometric dates of rocks, such a change of nuclear forces must have occurred after the Earth (and the rocks) were formed. To make the kind of difference suggested by young-Earth proponents, the half-lives must be shortened from several billion years down to several thousand years--a factor of at least a million. But to shorten half-lives by factors of a million would cause large physical changes. As one small example, recall that the Earth is heated substantially by radioactive decay. If that decay is speeded up by a factor of a million or so, the tremendous heat pulse would easily melt the whole Earth, including the rocks in question! No radiometric ages would appear old if this happened.

8. The decay rates might be slowing down over time, leading to incorrect old dates.

There are two ways we know this didn't happen: a) we have checked them out with "time machines", and b) it doesn't make sense mathematically. Both of these points are explained in the section titled, "Can We Really Believe the Dating Systems?"

9. We should measure the "full-life" (the time at which all of the parent is gone) rather than the half-life (the time when half of it is gone).

Unlike sand in an hourglass, which drops at a constant rate independent of how much remains in the top half of the glass, the number of radioactive decays is proportional to the amount of parent remaining. Figure 1 shows how after 2 half-lives, 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4 is left, and so on. After 10 half-lives there is 2-10 = 0.098% remaining. A half-life is more easy to define than some point at which almost all of the parent is gone. Scientists sometimes instead use the term "mean life", that is, the average life of a parent atom. The mean life is always 1/ln(2) = 1.44 times the half-life. For most of us half-life is easier to understand.

10. To date a rock one must know the original amount of the parent element. But there is no way to measure how much parent element was originally there.

It is very easy to calculate the original parent abundance, but that information is not needed to date the rock. All of the dating schemes work from knowing the present abundances of the parent and daughter isotopes. The original abundance N0, of the parent is simply N0 = N ekt, where N is the present abundance, t is time, and k is a constant related to the half life.

11. There is little or no way to tell how much of the decay product, that is, the daughter isotope, was originally in the rock, leading to anomalously old ages.

A good part of this article is devoted to explaining how one can tell how much of a given element or isotope was originally present. Usually it involves using more than one sample from a given rock. It is done by comparing the ratios of parent and daughter isotopes relative to a stable isotope for samples with different relative amounts of the parent isotope. For example, in the rubidium-strontium method one compares rubidium-87/strontium-86 to strontium-87/strontium-86 for different minerals. From this one can determine how much of the daughter isotope would be present if there had been no parent isotope. This is the same as the initial amount (it would not change if there were no parent isotope to decay). Figures 4 and 5, and the accompanying explanation, tell how this is done most of the time. While this is not absolutely 100% foolproof, comparison of several dating methods will always show whether the given date is reliable.

page 25

12. There are only a few different dating methods.

This article has listed and discussed a number of different radiometric dating methods and has also briefly described a number of non-radiometric dating methods. There are actually many more methods out there. Well over forty different radiometric dating methods are in use, and a number of non-radiogenic methods not even mentioned here.

13. "Radiation halos" in rocks prove that the Earth was young.

This refers to tiny halos of crystal damage surrounding spots where radioactive elements are concentrated in certain rocks. Halos thought to be from polonium, a short-lived element produced from the decay of uranium, have been found in some rocks. A plausible explanation for a halo from such a short-lived element is that these were not produced by an initial concentration of the radioactive element. Rather, as water seeped through cracks in the minerals, a chemical change caused newly-formed polonium to drop out of solution at a certain place and almost immediately decay there. A halo would build up over a long period of time even though the center of the halo never contained more than a few atoms of polonium at one time. "Hydrothermal" effects can act in ways that at first seem strange, such as the well-known fact that gold--a chemically un-reactive metal with very low solubilities--is concentrated along quartz veins by the action of water over long periods of time. Other researchers have found halos produced by an indirect radioactive decay effect called hole diffusion, which is an electrical effect in a crystal. These results suggest that the halos in question are not from short-lived isotopes after all.

At any rate, halos from uranium inclusions are far more common. Because of uranium's long half-lives, these halos take at least several hundred million years to form. Because of this, most people agree that halos provide compelling evidence for a very old Earth.

14. A young-Earth research group reported that they sent a rock erupted in 1980 from Mount Saint Helens volcano to a dating lab and got back a potassium-argon age of several million years. This shows we should not trust radiometric dating.

There are indeed ways to "trick" radiometric dating if a single dating method is improperly used on a sample. Anyone can move the hands on a clock and get the wrong time. Likewise, people actively looking for incorrect radiometric dates can in fact get them. Geologists have known for over forty years that the potassium-argon method cannot be used on rocks only twenty to thirty years old. Publicizing this incorrect age as a completely new finding was inappropriate. The reasons are discussed in the Potassium-Argon Dating section above. Be assured that multiple dating methods used together on igneous rocks are almost always correct unless the sample is too difficult to date due to factors such as metamorphism or a large fraction of xenoliths.

15. Low abundances of helium in zircon grains show that these minerals are much younger than radiometric dating suggests.

Zircon grains are important for uranium-thorium-lead dating because they contain abundant uranium and thorium parent isotopes. Helium is also produced from the decay of uranium and thorium. However, as a gas of very small atomic size, helium tends to escape rather easily. Researchers have studied the rates of diffusion of helium from zircons, with the prediction from one study by a young-Earth creationist suggesting that it should be quantitatively retained despite its atomic size. The assumptions of the temperature conditions of the rock over time are most likely unrealistic in this case.

16. The fact that radiogenic helium and argon are still degassing from the Earth's interior prove that the Earth must be young.

The radioactive parent isotopes, uranium and potassium, have very long half-lives, as shown in Table 1. These parents still exist in abundance in the Earth's interior, and are still producing helium and argon. There is also a time lag between the production of the daughter products and their degassing. If the Earth were geologically very young, very little helium and argon would have been produced. One can compare the amount of argon in the atmosphere to what would be expected from decay of potassium over 4.6 billion years, and in fact it is consistent.

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17. The waters of Noah's flood could have leached radioactive isotopes out of rocks, disturbing their ages.

This is actually suggested on one website! While water can affect the ability to date rock surfaces or other weathered areas, there is generally no trouble dating interior portions of most rocks from the bottom of lakes, rivers, and oceans. Additionally, if ages were disturbed by leaching, the leaching would affect different isotopes at vastly different rates. Ages determined by different methods would be in violent disagreement. If the flood were global in scope, why then would we have any rocks for which a number of different methods all agree with each other? In fact, close agreement between methods for most samples is a hallmark of radiometric dating.

18. We know the Earth is much younger because of non-radiogenic indicators such as the sedimentation rate of the oceans.

There are a number of parameters which, if extrapolated from the present without taking into account the changes in the Earth over time, would seem to suggest a somewhat younger Earth. These arguments can sound good on a very simple level, but do not hold water when all the factors are considered. Some examples of these categories are the decaying magnetic field (not mentioning the widespread evidence for magnetic reversals), the saltiness of the oceans (not counting sedimentation!;), the sedimentation rate of the oceans (not counting Earthquakes and crustal movement, that is, plate tectonics), the relative paucity of meteorites on the Earth's surface (not counting weathering or plate tectonics), the thickness of dust on the moon (without taking into account brecciation over time), the Earth-Moon separation rate (not counting changes in tides and internal forces), etc. While these arguments do not stand up when the complete picture is considered, the case for a very old creation of the Earth fits well in all areas considered.

19. Only atheists and liberals are involved in radiometric dating.

The fact is that there are a number of Bible-believing Christians who are involved in radiometric dating, and who can see its validity firsthand. A great number of other Christians are firmly convinced that radiometric dating shows evidence that God created the Earth billions, not thousands, of years ago.

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20. Different dating techniques usually give conflicting results.

This is not true at all. The fact that dating techniques most often agree with each other is why scientists tend to trust them in the first place. Nearly every college and university library in the country has periodicals such as Science, Nature, and specific geology journals that give the results of dating studies. The public is usually welcome to (and should!;) browse in these libraries. So the results are not hidden; people can go look at the results for themselves. Over a thousand research papers are published a year on radiometric dating, essentially all in agreement. Besides the scientific periodicals that carry up-to-date research reports, specific suggestions are given below for further reading, both for textbooks, non-classroom books, and web resources.

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Date: 2006/08/30 09:22:29, Link
Author: k.e
For equally crunchy nuttiness google

DaveScot stamp biology

Date: 2006/08/31 06:29:41, Link
Author: k.e
Ye Tard claims omniscience.

Evil grin :>

Sung to The Major General's Song from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance

I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General
I've calculated vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the probability of every possibility
from fallacy to outcome, I am quite delusional
I 'm very well acquainted too with matters scientifical,
I understand creations, both the simple and complexical,
About Mt Rushmore I'm teeming with a lot o' news
­With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views.

With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the  usefulness of
creosote spews

I'm very good at banning and dissing all the rest of you,
I know the scientific names of magazines american;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

I know our constitution and Judge D'over Activists
I ditactically dally in fundamental politics
I quote unknown authors of fictional stupidty
I give lessons growing mushrooms in basements very rapidly
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In fact, when I know what is meant by 'RNA' and 'DNA,'
When I can tell at sight a Mountain from a Statue-a,
When such affairs as genes and springing them willy-nilly,
And when I know precisely what is meant by 'biology,'
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern skulduggery
When I know more of tactics than a novice in thuggery;
In short, when I've a smattering of genetical humbuggery
You'll say a better dopey Design-o General had never sat a  
blog-gery.. -


For my biology knowledge, though I'm sucky and abdury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of last century;
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General!

Date: 2006/08/31 06:57:38, Link
Author: k.e
Snicker....Thank you Richard ....I thought since I was awarded the AtBC Poet Poet Laureate  prize I'd better do some! ....since YOU WON the Comedy Prize..bastard ...meant in the fondest Aussie sense ;)...oh and congratulations ...very original.

Date: 2006/09/01 21:17:09, Link
Author: k.e
Like, woooooooaaaaaah, toooooootaaaaaallly, Dude.

Geology ...he left out geology ...what has he got against rocks in his head?

Date: 2006/09/04 05:13:31, Link
Author: k.e
Remember if you get real close to a stingray....don't grab its tail. Great fish on the end of a line though, they can exert the force of a freight train.
I had to tell my kids Steve Irwin died again, since I told them years ago he was eaten by a crocodile.

Date: 2006/09/04 06:45:57, Link
Author: k.e
Don't forget the subterainian rock worms Tim, that somehow managed to get down into hard rock and leave all those burrows 1000's of feet down, after the flood.

Oh .......and all the angels or were they Santa's Elves..... sorting the fossils.

And my favorite AFD where is the great cosmic bucket god used to get rid of 26,000 of feet of water (ASL) covering the the whole planet.

Date: 2006/09/04 06:56:03, Link
Author: k.e
A new cocktail should be named after El 'Tardo..

"The flaming dipshit"


Pour a jigger of 'tard into a
Martini glass blog and top with million creationist bowel movements...then flame them.

I love the smell of flaming dipshits in the morning.

Date: 2006/09/04 07:14:43, Link
Author: k.e
One swallow a summer does not make.

AFD you still have 39 other dating methods.

geez how desperate are you?

Date: 2006/09/04 07:27:20, Link
Author: k.e
Just as a matter of interest AFD how did the flightless bird the Kiwi survive the flood?

Or the flightless parrot whose name  I can't remember at the moment or the Tuatara lizard or the exstinct giant Moa Bird and the lesser spotted Moa which I believe was the size of a Mack truck motor which Noah would have needed to race down the Jordan into the Red Sea scoot across the the Indian Ocean duck around Tasmania land on both the North and South Islands of New Zealand and round up all the different species of flightless birds in dense rain forest and swamps without the help of the native Maori who were still in Taiwan 6000 years the way  what about the Maori were they on the ark?

Noah didn't have them on his ark ....did he?... lies4kids AFD

Date: 2006/09/04 18:59:09, Link
Author: k.e
Let me fix that for you lies4kids AFD

"Accelerated evolution" of fruit flies has produced....blah blah blah

Whereas evolution produced.....flies that eat fruit.

.......And pesticide resistant fruit flies.

gee AFD like a good whipping don't you?

Into S&M are you?

Date: 2006/09/04 19:31:19, Link
Author: k.e
Thanks DM I always confuse the Kakapo with the Kea.

The NZ Kea is renowned for it's complete disregard for the proper treatment of cars and camping equipment. While I was last visiting my home country, we parked at Franz Joseph Glacier on the West Coast of the South Island.
A flock of friendly and cheeky Keas permanently inhabit the car park and scrounge for food. They break car antennas, pull out the rubber door seals with their beaks, are quite fearless, behave quite comically and seem to have real attitude. They will walk right up to you and peck at your shoes if you let them. I have heard stories of campers returning to their camp sites in the mountains to find their tents and sleeping bags shredded.

This from wiki.
They (Kea) are probably one of the most active, intelligent, destructive and playful parrots, making them prone to behavioral problems and boredom in captivity if not well cared for.

Date: 2006/09/05 09:04:46, Link
Author: k.e
It's OK Richard .....Dave came back as JAD.

Have they ever been seen in the same place together?

Date: 2006/09/05 09:14:24, Link
Author: k.e
Why did the chimps cross the road?

To see their celebrity uncle Joe, who appeared on the cover of Jonathon Wells (2006) The Politically Incorrect Guide to Darwinism and Intelligent Design. Regnery Publishing, Inc. Washington, DC.

If that doesn't make a monkey out of him..... nothing will.

Date: 2006/09/06 01:13:32, Link
Author: k.e
Well this is news to me .....Moses could write?

What alphabet?

AND speaking of alphabets, which one did the lies4kids AFD's scribes use?

Any info on the language.....Portuguese by any chance?


Date: 2006/09/06 01:31:00, Link
Author: k.e
DM said:

You're not considering the action you could get if you were single and walking THAT at the beach.

Funny those were my exact thoughts.

We used to have a Chow Chow exactly like that except he was red/brown with blue/black tongue and all. I got him for my 2 year old daughter because she loved dog's, in fact her first word was 'dog'.

A Burmese friend at the time told me they were used as guard dogs by the opium smugglers in what is now Myanmar.

Anyway if I was single again it would be the first thing I would buy, girls would go out of their way to quiz us on him.

Date: 2006/09/06 02:49:21, Link
Author: k.e
Just before everyone goes nuts that dog is an adult black Chow Chow (Dog) that has been dyed or bleached.
Chengdu dog

Date: 2006/09/09 08:53:27, Link
Author: k.e

The absolutely priceless bit is watching El Tardo squirm.

"Jail bait? ooooh a trap.....mustn't.....touch.....slobber"

LouFCD ....IF that IS really you (snigger) ....just brilliant.

And getting the kids in on it.... you guys & girls must have had some real belly laughs...all at Dembski's mini-me blow up love doll expense ....FOR POSTERITY.

If "Uncle" Dave S. Turnip 'I came down in the last shower' Springer ever lives it down he will need the hide of a rhinoceros.....

Sorry for the early fright Lou, the responses were brilliant, truly creative.

Oh and Oberstupidexmarine dSS keep up the pathetic smoke screen makes you more visable as a complete tosser and a MAJOR FUCKWIT.


Which reminds me (quoting myself ...sorry Lou)

Sung to The Major General's Song from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance


I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General
I've calculated vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the probability of every possibility
from fallacy to outcome, I am quite delusional
I 'm very well acquainted too with matters scientifical,
I understand creations, both the simple and complexical,
About Mt Rushmore I'm teeming with a lot o' news
­With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views.

With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the  usefulness of
creosote spews

I'm very good at banning and dissing all the rest of you,
I know the scientific pages of magazines american;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

I know our constitution and judged'over Activists
I ditactically dally in fundamental politics
I quote unknown authors of fictional stupidty
I give lessons growing mushrooms in basements very rapidly
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In fact, when I know what is meant by 'RNA' and 'DNA,'
When I can tell at sight a Mountain from a Statue-a,
When such affairs as genes and springing them willy-nilly,
And when I know precisely what is meant by 'biology,'
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern skulduggery
When I know more of tactics than a novice in thuggery;
In short, when I've a smattering of genetical humbuggery
You'll say a better dopey Design-o General had never sat a  blog-gery.. -


For my biology knowledge, though I'm sucky and abdury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of last century;
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General!

For El Tardo's next trick he will tell us all how to recognise a girl from Mt Rushmore....uh..oh... they were all boys.

Keep up the good work dSS we couldn't help creationism reach lower anywhere near as much as you can you're our best ally.

Date: 2006/09/19 06:39:52, Link
Author: k.e
(Altabin @ Sep. 18 2006,12:10)
Dozens of Deceitful Deity-Detectors Drone Dopily

Materialists' methods merit masterful monographs on much that matters; meanwhile, maladroit mealy-mouthed ministerials misinform many, mangle medicine & microbiology, make mindless, moronic manifestos and merit much mockery.


MMMMMMMmmmmmmmmemes mendaciously mitigate maladjusted misanthropes whom meaninglessly meander, murdering meaningful musings from meticulous meta-physicians becoming more metallic as their mega manufacturer made machines not Man.

The latest from the id cess pool .....God is an appliance maker .....I wonder if Dogski's Length Infinite, Zero Energy  (LIZE) wave, powers them....sounds a bit new age to me...for his next trick watch for magnetic healing badges with his sideways "I'm with stupid" glance on it.

Date: 2006/09/19 17:57:00, Link
Author: k.e
Thus spake Mr. Cosmo Konstant.
As for pissing off the opposition, giving them something to rally around, and making Christians look like fools:

And in his case.....a bigger one never existed.

Heds up prof. have you considered it is a REQUIREMENT?


Date: 2006/09/20 05:45:34, Link
Author: k.e
Hey Wobert Obrien are you single like Heddle .....?

it might be time to change your motto

Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita

If his blog picture is acurate, You and Him would would be the last word in those bon mots.

I'm sure he appreciates help from intellectual giants such as yourself...or not...but anyway keep up the good work of confirming his premise....ID has brought ridicule on his little cult of REPROBATION.

From the Devils Dictionary

REPROBATION, n. In theology, the state of a luckless mortal prenatally damned. The doctrine of reprobation was taught by Calvin, whose joy in it was somewhat marred by the sad sincerity of his conviction that although some are foredoomed to perdition, others are predestined to salvation.

Enjoy...... I rarely cast pearls to won't happen again..... in your case. Twit.

Date: 2006/09/20 05:54:57, Link
Author: k.e
Crikey Arden....just WTF have you got stuffed down your pants there boy?

Date: 2006/09/20 06:11:01, Link
Author: k.e
Geez AFD wonder the Air Force sidelined you.

Did they figure out if you didn't like something just told a bunch of lies to make it look like they were wrong.

I'll bet they were glad to rid of you.

You're just a weak, half assed, lying scam artist.


Date: 2006/09/20 06:32:59, Link
Author: k.e

So people down there really DO say 'crikey' non-ironically?

A quick lesson in 'strine'.

"crikey moses" = "good god ....astonishing"

"crikey blue*" = "geez mate" = "I say old chap, jolly bad luck" *Blue or Bluey (now redundant after the introduction of TV)= mate

"By crikey I'll whack you" = A favourite of my mothers

"Crikey look at that ass"= no explanation needed

Steve Irwin can be credited with reversing the trafficking of at least one word in the long list of Americanisms etoiliating our native tongue.

I could offer the equally unique word "Drongo" for which the nearest equivalent in American would be "Dick Head"

So.....your Avatar wears a tie no?

Is there something your not telling us....

Date: 2006/09/20 06:50:28, Link
Author: k.e
Well actually yes I am still a Kiwi.
Just living in Oz, I had the operation and Aussies will niggle the buggery out of you if they detect the slightest Kiwi accent so I'm a Kiwi incognito. If I go home I get picked on for my Aussie accent and if I spend long enough there the bloody Aussies notice when I come back.

To a Kiwi the Aussie pronunciation of "fish" sounds like 'feeesh' and to an Aussie the Kiwi "fish" is 'fush'.

Like writen Ukrainian there are practically no vowels in spoken Kiwi. :p
Oh and 'Crikey' is used on both sides of the Tasman Sea.

Date: 2006/09/20 07:20:15, Link
Author: k.e


.....Encore! ....encore!


Date: 2006/09/20 07:32:10, Link
Author: k.e
Nothing quite gets up my nose more than the self righteous bombastic nutters who claim to be followers of the borrowed  Greek Hermetic trinity mythology (bread, wine and women) and the lamb carrying Levantine Apollo.

They need to take a long hard look in a mirror.*

From the devils dictionary for the new millenium.

a telescope with a 1:1 magnification power which shows all the evil in the world when viewed at right angles.

Date: 2006/09/20 08:07:20, Link
Author: k.e
Ah yes good old DT ......he carries the credibility of the entire ID movement to new lows....if that were at all possible.

The South African prejoritive "He's lower than a snakes ass in a wagon rut" couldn't be more apt.

There must be some honest Christians who cringe everytime him and his ilk invoke the name of their saviour in solipsistic vanity.

As long as he and his toady bunch is on their side we can't possibly go wrong.

Date: 2006/09/20 08:42:32, Link
Author: k.e
My distinct impression is that the heavy duty Christians at UD aren't fond of Dave at all (among other things, he's proclaimed himself both an agnostic and an atheist), but that they put up with him because he's 'on their side'.

Well of course the double triple irony with cream and stawberries on top is that compared to the rest of them DT is a paragon of virtue and honesty.

And even better...He knows it and they know it to.

Date: 2006/09/20 09:10:37, Link
Author: k.e
Hey 'red dot' Dave you know how all your creo pseudo science heros work.

Just make it up as you go along and Barnums 1st Axiom kicks in.

"There is a sucker born every minute"

and 'red dot' Dave  .....YOU are one of them.

Date: 2006/09/20 09:26:38, Link
Author: k.e
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)


(k.e @ Sep. 20 2006,13:07)
The South African prejoritive "He's lower than a snakes ass in a wagon rut" couldn't be more apt.

Just had to delurk for this.  

The actual expression is more like:

"Hy's laer as slangkak se skaduwee op die seebodem."

Trans: He's lower than snake shit's shadow on the sea floor.

It sounds much better in Afrikaans though.  

Gotta laugh there is nothing like the classic South African understatement

Arden ....yes to your ear
I always thought the Kiwi pronunciation of "fish" sounded like 'fesh'.

that sounds right from where you are... but to an Aussie it sounds like the 'e' is dropped altogether.

When I first went to Sydney the teenage girls from the eastern suburbs would appear to be saying seee-dina-eeee.

Date: 2006/09/20 09:32:30, Link
Author: k.e
Come on AF Dave

be a man for once in your life and tell Argy about the 'red dots'

Date: 2006/09/20 09:39:22, Link
Author: k.e
Steve S over on PZ's blog said
He's (AFD)so dumb, he makes Salvador look smart.

Too least Sal knows when to pack up his lies and move on to fresher pastures.

AFD  is a class of his own in pure moron-ness.

Date: 2006/09/20 10:12:29, Link
Author: k.e
Dang .....I always suspected UD couldn't be for it's really a front for the Russian Mafia ?

Those clever raskals..

Date: 2006/09/21 06:26:52, Link
Author: k.e
Blink blink...rubs eyes....

....Oh that's right Heddle knows something about what a proof might actually be.

That's the smartest thing he's said,  short of calling Dembski a duplicitous scam artist.

Sal already knows it's a crock, he just likes the smell of the grease paint and the curtain calls.

Date: 2006/09/21 07:00:22, Link
Author: k.e
Agreed Arden, Harlequin Sal is no where near Heddle in the neuron stakes, he seems to have given up running shotgun for Dembski's pseudo science,  but in my opinion he is just media whore, he would be happy promoting rungless ladders, as soon as he gets a sniff of some other scam he'll be off.

Date: 2006/09/21 19:47:19, Link
Author: k.e
PeterEvolves & Carsonjok (not to mention those who know who they are) are on the money with AFD.

.....Dave, given that you apparently have no respect for the scientific method in your mind. The functionality of the U.S. legal system hinges considerably more on the scientific method and logic than you seem to be able to muster AND it functions so well because of its reliance on the presentation and logical (if emotionally laden) explanation of that evidence. You will find that the areligious (not anti-religious) nature of our legal system and its avoidance of a priori religious stances has ensured a much higher degree of fairness than those systems that existed before it.

AFD and his ilk must maintain a kind of post modernist funk where the rules of evidence are carelessly twisted if not completely disregarded to create the impression they are following them.

That is why the only way they can ever hope their insane version of reality will be accepted is to have SOTUS change the rules of evidence.

Of course if that were to happen the rule of Law would be completely bankrupt and the Crazies would be in charge of the can only speculate what would happen then...reasoning people becoming unreasonable?

Fortunately there are some people who realize this, however given that their dear leader Mr 30% ...Korn God GWB has failed dismally to convince even 'some of the people' ....the 30% being the proverbial backwash, I for one can't see that happening soon.

AFD stop lying to yourself.

You do understand if you had to support your case in a court you would be laughed out of it in next to no time.

Speaking of which how is your congregation going with that financial scandle ?

Date: 2006/09/22 05:02:54, Link
Author: k.e
Wow ArtFraud lies4children Dave.

So ......has your congregation decided not to sue you and your shonky pastor?

What would it take AFD? have you covered up all the paper trail? What about the bank accounts ? 900 odd people AFD..... there must be someone who has an axe to grind. Anyone asking leading questions..any threats?..nasty letters?

Come on give us the good oil.

Back to your purty piktures ..just arant do I know? It's your MO half a D.

Date: 2006/09/22 05:24:14, Link
Author: k.e

I've personally examined and debunked the nonsense being promoted by Dembski's critics like Elsberry, Perakh, Shallit, Thomas, Lenski, Adami, and others. I plead you reconsider who is closer to the truth in terms of valid deductive methods....
Salvador T. Cordova | 09.21.06 - 5:17 pm

Oh well looks like I've given Sal too much cedit.

The guy is a regular intellectual black hole.

Nothing, including what might be considered reason in some circles, escapes the gravity of his own brain which considering it's lightness is truly indicative of magnitude of the vacant space he calls his brain.

He just won't tell anyone who can add 1 and 1 how he debunked Dembski's critics.

As I recall on PT, he ran off with his tail betwen his legs everytime he popped up.

I guess he must be saving it for the cleaning lady at the DI.

Date: 2006/09/24 07:56:36, Link
Author: k.e


Quote  by lies for kids AFD
In general, I (and every creationist I know) accept all science which involves repeatable, testable events.  

AFD you lying piece of ****.

You hold all evidence in total contempt,

You are pathologically incapable of accepting the rules of evidence.

If you were in a court you would be put away for contempt, for being the recalcitrant liar you are.

You and your fellow blow hard scam artists aka creationists, reduce your religion to nothing more than an ignorance peddling criminal activity.

Date: 2006/09/25 03:44:42, Link
Author: k.e
Mike PSS

Right now lies 4 kids AFD is in the middle of compiling one of his long screeds of utter vomit.

Like the mythical Cyclops he believes he is a giant among men, even though he is half blind and easily fooled.

AFD thrives on the energy of others, he literally craves to be told he is a lying, contempable arsehole.

Evidence? You will never get any from him, lies yes.

Now back to our reularly scheduled program.

Take it away..... lies 4 kids AFD.......

Date: 2006/09/26 04:45:44, Link
Author: k.e
geez AFD how long did that last bit of creo-crap take you?

You have made a mistake, let me correct it for you.

THE BOOK OF GENESIS IS LITERAL a fable, EYEWITNESS imagined HISTORY, A COMPILATION authored  BY  MOSES by unknown people based on Gilgamesh and other ancient Myths OF ANCIENT TABLET RECORDS ancient fireside pre-literate tales, passed down through oral tradition

....get it right AFD, like every other stupid ignorant thing you write, your carefully planned, but crude, lies unveil your god to be the god of contempt for Man's revealed knowledge.

Oh by the way AFD what's the fastest growing religious group in the USA?  ....Yes AFD.....Atheism.

You can take some of the credit for that AFD.

Date: 2006/09/26 06:56:32, Link
Author: k.e
Robert O'

You should try penis reduction surgery..


..then whatever cap you chose to wear might fit.

Alternatively if you choose not to ...never fear...the dunce's hat should keep the sun off it.

Date: 2006/09/26 07:11:32, Link
Author: k.e
Robert, roberto, robertas, robertat

"Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione"

Date: 2006/09/26 07:28:23, Link
Author: k.e
I assume Robert O'  WAS attempting  humor, with this?

In any event, modern scientists cannot, in general, hold a candle to the (more) religious scientists of yore,.....

Quick tell the Nobel prize committee...

Headline news.....

"Neutrino's and Penicillan second rate religion free science according to leading science pundit"

Date: 2006/09/26 07:55:23, Link
Author: k.e
Ne sutor ultra crepidam

....You're projecting Robert.

OK its been a while ....37 years to be precise....lets see,

Ne = in order not...

sutor  = noun

ultra = farther, over (than),

crepidam= another noun

In order for the sutor not to go farther than his crepidam.

....ah Robert......are you gay?

Date: 2006/09/26 08:17:23, Link
Author: k.e
Xianity rules OK

I'm now going to take this thread seriously.

1. Western science owes everything to pre-Christian Athens and Rome and not a shekel to Jerusalem.

2. The whole premise of GOP and his stupidity pedlars if they had their way would shift a Eurocentric quality to a Levantine lavatory.

3.The church almost succeeded in completely wiping out centuries of learning by around 500CE, until the Renaissance when commerce outside of the church reduced its power. Art and science carried on from where the pagan Greeks left off 1000 years earlier.

Western science is a triumph of reason over superstition something the Christian church worked religiously to suppress until it's power was reduced.

Date: 2006/09/26 08:26:55, Link
Author: k.e

Ne fellatio ultra Dei

Date: 2006/09/27 07:44:51, Link
Author: k.e
Bob O'H

Ha ha!!  I got banned first from first!  Administator has been removed.

Another phyrric victory, at least you got to see your name up there.

My one and only post to UD under the name Vajrachchedika (The diamond cutter) never saw the light of day, maybe that was testing their glass ego's beyond melting point.

Anyway they missed out the first two lines for their title.

Once upon a time in a land far far away there was overwhelming evidence......

Date: 2006/09/27 07:57:55, Link
Author: k.e
Time to up your dose AFD.

Your magical reality must require truck loads.

Date: 2006/09/27 08:05:03, Link
Author: k.e
Quote attributed to Alpha Designo Tard by the highly reputable RH
Children are a financial burden and adults can live higher on the hog without them...

ah...does 'Bad Seed' Davetard have kids?

...and ....does he know they are the by product of 'heavenly rewards'.

Date: 2006/09/27 09:11:33, Link
Author: k.e
.......and the shining city on the hill will bring truth and goodness to all places of darkness, ignorance, and decadence — such as France, Germany, and the Netherlands. Then the terrible and savage tyranny inspired by Voltaire, Kant, and Spinoza shall finally be vanquished!

Oh the terrible, terrible rapture, oh the rapture (slobber)..limps to operating table...Igor bring me the brains in that jar over there ....and stand by to throw the switch ....
but first a prayer a savage tyranical Yanky imperialist Jerimiad.....forget the Middle East...lets bomb Western Europe back to the dark ages and we can have all the Oil to ourselves....Bwhahahahahahahahaha.

...sorry, just lost it there for a moment.

...Dembski  should forget about detecting design and try detecting insanity in the population...he could set up a website and post useless nonsense and see if it attacts absolute loonies....uh oh.

Date: 2006/09/28 03:35:30, Link
Author: k.e
...Blah goddunit Blah blah blah....Christ has assumed the fullness of our humanity and entered every aspect of our reality. He thereby renders all our studies the study of himself.

“Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology” pg. 210

Isn't that just a long winded way of saying that god is in everything, and around everything, was responsible for setting up the universe etc etc?
So once again it proves that ID supporters have a religious agenda.

Indeed that scion of the Enlightenment... Spinoza said something like that. If god actually existed would have to be in everything or not exist at all.

But once they get rid of Darwinism, that world view will have to be modified...god is everywhere .....except that bit over there and that other bit.

....One thing that puzzles me though,  they seem to talk about this Jesus fellow as if he were alive.

Does he have his own TV show or something?....maybe he is on talk back radio ......we don't get all that stuff down under.

Can someone direct me to his Blog. Any merchandise?

You know a cool long white robe and sandals outfit with a neat logo with black stripes or checkers would go over well , when I go for a drink at my local pub I want people to know what team I support.

The wine would have to be Kosher of course but I know some chicks really go for the Jesus sandals 'look' and if any of the hard men take offense to me pulling their chicks I can give 'em a quick 'sermon on the mount' and tell them off for being materialists.

If that doesn't work then there is always the jump over the bar and grab the cash trays and spill them on the floor and rant on about how they offend god by charging for one of god's gifts...the water of life.

Normally by that time the bouncers appear and I seem to leave without my feet touching the floor...which further strengthens my case for being the son of god.

Walking on water...pfffft...a simple optical illusion on a hot day in the desert...but leaving a bar 1 foot above the ground ? That takes talent.

....Oh where was I now?

Being the one true son of god has it's dangers, please don't mention Easter, whenever I head down to the hardware store and ask for a hammer and a nail I get the strangest looks, other than that the people at the unemployment office just don't 'get it'; When I say my talents include turning water in to wine the same thing always happens..they call the supervisor and he ALWAYS makes the smart remark "And I suppose you do the loaves and fishes number as well?". At that point I have tell them god doesn't like sarcasm and they tell me to F***k off.

..Excuse me I'm getting a call from 'upstairs' ...hasta la vista.

Date: 2006/09/28 03:56:01, Link
Author: k.e
Our Radical Diletantte Dave is merely tolerated by those in his life because he's a competent taxi driver.

Yeah I'll bet that's the one time when he doesn't make people pray when they are in his company...just before take off.

Date: 2006/09/28 04:28:07, Link
Author: k.e
So even tho he doesn't believe in evolution, Skeptic [b]does[b/] apparently believe that party affiliation is genetic...

And is a social 'Darwinist'....

By definition, the fittest are those that reproduce and survive and in this case it seems that conservatives are out-producing their liberal counterparts.  Interesting irony.

Indeed the irony is .....that the political and religious conservative plutocrats whose biggest fear is that 'Darwinism' leads to atheism and the breakdown of society because it makes 'god' irrelevant and reduces mankind to raw flesh eating animals and a fear that the law of the jungle will predominate ...actually support a breeding program that would allow success of a particular species of political animal to gain the upper hand by a dominant population wiping out a weaker opposition in the fight for resources in the environment.....aka... the law of the jungle or natural selection.

Date: 2006/09/28 04:37:39, Link
Author: k.e
Mike PSS
If anyone sees another "out" that I'm missing then bring it up now and I can patch my argument accordingly.

For AFD ignorance is bliss .....and no one has as much bliss as he will ignore a massive long pile of dog do doos to push your post off the page so he doesn't have to look at it, change the subject and claim victory.

You can lead an loony to a psychiatrist but you can't make him listen, as long as he holds his fingers in his ears and jumps up and down and screams lalalalalalalala.

Date: 2006/09/28 05:36:35, Link
Author: k.e
Okay, admittedly I don't know the nuances of political partisanship for ALL news programs in the States. Could someone please tell me if the introduction to the most critical voice in that Jesus Camp piece was tongue-in-cheek?

"?Lauren? Sandler, who is a secular liberal feminist from New York City, ..."

I too would be interested in that question now that incorygible has raised it.
It didn't seem that way to me.
It's almost as if they were saying she 'is a baby eating, church burning, ebola girl' so don't call this TV station we just show the news and a whole lot of kids immitating Linda Blair IS NEWS.

What an excellent day for an exorcism.

Psychiatrist: Is there someone inside you?
Regan MacNeil: Sometimes.
Psychiatrist: Who is it?
Regan MacNeil: I don't know.
Psychiatrist: Is it Captain Howdy?
Regan MacNeil: I don't know.
Psychiatrist: If I ask him to tell me, will you let him answer?
Regan MacNeil: No.
Psychiatrist: Why not?
Regan MacNeil: I'm afraid.

Date: 2006/09/28 06:17:23, Link
Author: k.e
ericmurphy said.
…But you should continue nevertheless, Mike. Dave won't learn anything (his worldview depends on his not learning anything) but the rest of us probably will, and personally, I'm fascinated.

I certainly don't want to discourage Mike PSS from further posts..,EXCEPT for AutisticFartDave the rest of the posts have been very enlightening.

But to give AFD his due.... without him we wouldn't be treated to a full scale pathological cognitive dissonance of biblical proportions, he's like a huge fridge to which little magnetic snippets of real science have been attached, except the light doesn't go on when you open the door...we just get the dank smell of rotting jesus fish. NPD? we should donate this thread to the American Psychiatrists Association as an example and AFD you should respond in kind by donating your body to science, I'm truly interested to see if there is *ANYTHING* inside your skull.
Now don't forget, in your will don't say “Donate my body to pseudoscience!”

Date: 2006/09/28 08:20:43, Link
Author: k.e
Geez goop look at all those heathens in China who beat the living daylights out of your 'math edumication' you must be confucian math with counting your tao-es.

Date: 2006/09/28 19:52:39, Link
Author: k.e
Lets give Diamond's comments some cultural context.

Someone I know fought in the Zimbabwean war of independence in the mid '70's as member of what was then the white minority government of  Ian Smith's Rhodesian Light Infantry.

His part in the war was fought on foot by small teams of men armed with rifles in remote bushland.

Both sides used essentially the guerrilla tactics of ambush and withdrawal in the face of a superior opposition in sparse bushland. A noisy modern army can drive around all day and think they own the land because the enemy is too smart to engage them until the balance is equaled either by nightfall or since that is harder now with the advent of night sights, attack their means of transport with remote controlled bombs.

To be a successful soldier in that environment one had to be extremely fit, able to walk for days carrying a heavy load, resourceful and alert to the slightest sign of danger while using all ones senses including smell.

Early in the conflict the Rhodesian army found that using soap in the field gave their enemy advance warning downwind of an approaching unit because perfume in  the soap carried far in a breeze, so while on tour no one washed.

At that time the war in Vietnam ceased and a few American soldiers of fortune joined up to continue their adrenaline rush.

My friend told me the ones who joined his unit were next to useless and in fact a real danger, they could not actually walk through bush without making a racket and shot at anything that gave them a start thus signaling any enemy for miles around to their presence, plus they thought they were invincible and hence made easy targets.

Ones environment shapes ones awareness just ask city slicker Dick 'shoot me in the face' Cheney.

If gop and I suspect most of us were to be placed in the middle of New Guinea by helicopter without our normal accouterments, but enough native words to survive, we would seem to Mr. Anthropologist to be clumsy, unaware and just plain stupid in some of the normal day to day tasks that those people were engaged in, digging yams with a stick and hunting wildlife with a bow and arrow all the while making sure nothing nasty bit you as you walked through the undergrowth, and not bitching like a pampered tourist.

Once while I was in Sumatra 32 years ago I went into some paddy fields with the family I was staying with. They had spent since sunrise digging up peanuts with small hand tools and their 13 year old daughter was given the task of carrying a large sack of them (weighing from memory around 80lbs)  balanced on her head  for about 1/2 a kilometer along the narrow mud walls of the paddy fields. I was reasonably fit and gallantly offered to carry them for her. Imagine my embarrassment when  I struggled  with this large heavy load without a pack frame, wheelbarrow, ropes or straps to get a purchase on the load and negotiate the 1 foot wide track.
She just popped it on her head and took off without the slightest trouble.

That is what Diamond means by awareness and apparent intelligence, pure and simple.

Had the tables been turned and our (and their)ancestors migrated in different directions his premise is that the Melanesians would have become just as technologically advanced as Europeans are now, given the same natural resources.

Great White Hunter Gop, I have to say in either environment Western or whatever you remain singularly and recalcitrantly stupider than a dumb stone, not because you are unintelligent but because you are simply incapable of seeing what is obvious to everyone else as the result of living in what seems to me, a basement all your life.

Date: 2006/09/29 03:47:40, Link
Author: k.e
AFD projects:
Actually, my family gets a kick out of reading this thread (ATBC) sometimes ... they (and many of my friends) have had access to it since the beginning.

Is that right AFD? ..terrific..get them to logon and say hello..I say you're lying.


As for comments on my blog, it's too much work right now.  I'm spending my forum time here.

Really? ...another bald faced lie. You're too chickensh*t to turn on comments. Spin away AFD you're not convincing anyone.

And now the money shot .....all creos do it sure as the Pope is a Catholic.. they can't help themselves.
Let me help you fix your next comment for you AFD.


But your MYcomment provides an interesting parallel to the EvolutionistCreationist Approach to Truth.  What you I WANT to believe seriously clouds your MY thinking and causes you ME  to arrive at erroneous conclusions.

Say whatever you like AFD, what you do not realize is that every single loony creo that has popped up here and on PT has EXACTLY the same Modus Operandi.

They each naively without the slightest hint of self awareness make the same are just a parody..and no university in the world teaches a parody as science.

Go for it AFD...project your faults for all to see.... you are just a total loser.

Date: 2006/09/29 03:53:56, Link
Author: k.e
AFD makes another hollow boast:
I will also be taking "The Best of ATBC" over to my blog site over the next few months.  I will let you know when new articles appear there.

Why bother?

All you have done is C&P'ed creationist claptrap and hogwash.

If you were honest you would just provide the links to this thread......coward.

Date: 2006/09/29 07:12:49, Link
Author: k.e
Rich said:
Second - the Senate is going to look at the bill, laugh at the Fundies and send it back. Tick tock Fundies, time is running out, changes are a comming.

OK I know you are a seer and and all round good guy, in fact I was going to suggest you just call yourself "WhatAGuy" there a basis for your confidence besides the toothpaste you use?

Date: 2006/09/29 07:32:36, Link
Author: k.e

Because exactly like 9/11 etc, it is a direct attack on the truth, by lies told by lying liars.

Their gross stupidity just makes it fun.

Dembski who is the so called 'intellectual leader' (smirk) makes it ludicrously easy to ridicule since he behaves like the archetypical pseudoscientist. He surrounds himself with solipsistic sycophants who indulge in sophomoric question begging and blocks out all criticism thinking that by doing that there IS no criticism.
Comedy like that for free, is an absolute bargain.

Date: 2006/09/29 07:48:11, Link
Author: k.e
Rich said:
Alternative hypothesis:
To get the ignorant masses to do what you want / be happy with their lot?

Ah yes...the plutocratic oath...taken by the neo-con oligarchy where they implement their Straussian dreams onto sheep like gop.....aka good old time religion.... since the dawn of time guaranteed to satisfy parasites.

Date: 2006/09/29 07:53:36, Link
Author: k.e
Shirley said:
And the down side to that would be what, precisely?


Ah well ......there's no party without punch.

Date: 2006/09/29 19:21:28, Link
Author: k.e
I(Dembski) was frankly looking forward to being deposed by the ACLU and staring them down at the trial. Perhaps another trial is in the offing, and Ken and I can finally have our day in court.

Oh yeah?

Lets see how that phone call goes

Ring Ring:

William A. Dembski: 'lo

DI lawyer: Is that you Bill?

WAD: Who's this?

DIL: Johnnie Cochran... Bill, Howie decided to get serious, we got that court case you're itching to get onto.
WAD: Great!!!
DIL: Are you available in Ohio next May?
WAD: I'll check my diary.....yup.
DIL: Good, now what do you need.
WAD: Oh $200 per hour should do it.
DIL: AH Bill...I'm doing this pro bono but Howie said $200ph is OK. is a minimum rate of 100 hours.
DIL:Hmmmm...I see no problem with that.
WAD:...uh.....I'll need a couple of research assistants.
DIL:See if you can get some interns.
WAD:I did, but ..ah...they....they tend to be a little single minded about the designer thingy and don't seem to be objective enough.
DIL: So what do you suggest?
WAD:Another $300 per hour.
DIL:Ah .....look Bill...I'll call you back.

Date: 2006/10/02 04:50:50, Link
Author: k.e
More intelligently designed synonyms for

Opaqued Execrable :p

not transparent, dull, stupid, or unintelligent not shining or bright; dark; dull  + utterly detestable abominable; abhorrent.

Obscurantist's Editions  

opposition to the increase and spread of knowledge;  
deliberate obscurity or evasion of clarity. + Publication

Obvious  Evasion, (of the facts...any facts)

Occult Evidence. (William A. Dembski = the David Koresh of ID....the Twig Davidian anti-Darwinists; they deny the truth of evolution and predict the end of the world as far as Darwin saw it)

Ominous Effects. (of smoking too much

Obnoxious Elfactory (holds nose)

Overwhelming e-Greed.

Overextended Electronic-Phallus

Oracular Exitement. (the rapture... the rapture.... they can see it coming in their rear view mirror, Paley was a

Old Evisceration (removing chicken guts and dancing around in grandmas undies while praising Osiris) much fun is enough? ooh

Overtly Enough (lies4kids)

Date: 2006/10/02 06:08:19, Link
Author: k.e

Obstinatly Evil

Obdurate  Exaggerated (lies)


I do like Georges 'Overabundant Eejits' ....bows.

Date: 2006/10/02 06:55:56, Link
Author: k.e
My all time fav. is the one with Sideshow Bob doing the Pirates of Penzance ...

but the "The secular humanist in the school house with misinformation!" indicates to me that the evening news 'shows' with their dog whistle lables for the talking heads

e.g. the '"?Lauren? Sandler, who is a secular liberal feminist from New York City, ..."  from

indicates the truly bizare Orwellian thought control the news organisations indulge in.

Date: 2006/10/02 07:07:40, Link
Author: k.e
Bah ....ericmurphy Occam's Aftershave.....that diagram doesn't show AFD's ancestors .....he has a direct link to the weasle.

Date: 2006/10/02 07:19:08, Link
Author: k.e
Come on, guys!  This is ridiculous!  You are GUESSING what ancient bacterial genetics might have been like and you are CONTRADICTING the guideline you just finished giving me about similar morphologies=similar genetics.

What in the world?

AFD are you truly that simple minded?

Every living thing has a parent is that so hard to grasp?

Even a 4 year old knows that.

Date: 2006/10/02 07:50:05, Link
Author: k.e
("ancient" in quotes b/c I of course believe that ALL bacteria are only about 6000 years old.)

Don't BS us AFD you don't believe that.

You think it is true because you think a circular arguement is true. Observe

AFD:The world is 6000 years old.
AFD: Because the Bible (or more correctly some 19th Century theological nutter) says so.
How do you know that is true:
AFD: Because the Bible (or more correctly some 19th Century theological nutter) says its true.

However, the circular arguement is a logical fallacy and by definition false.

You 'believe' something that is false pure and simple, truly a credit to 'stupidanity' there AFD

You know it is wrong, you may not 'believe' that  bacteria have been in existance for billions of years although you know that the evidence supports it, and it must be true, the real test for you AFD is .....does it pass the 'stupidanity' test.... of course it does the earth being 6000 years old MUST BE FALSE.

Stoke that demon AFD.

Date: 2006/10/02 08:38:57, Link
Author: k.e
AFD is like the little kid waiting for something to fall off a truck.

Go ahead ... spin a couple of pages of rhetoric to your heart's content.

I've hit on something here with this crazy (new to me) idea that ...

"Ancient" bacterial DNA is just as different from modern bacterial DNA as modern bacterial DNA is from human DNA.

As far as I can tell ... A TOTAL GUESS!

Wrong order there AFD lets see how that should go.

I've hit on something here with this crazy couple of pages of rhetoric, A TOTAL GUESS

"Ancient" bacterial DNA is just as different from modern bacterial DNA as modern bacterial DNA is from human DNA.

As far as I can ... spin this crazy idea that ...
has gone to my head

Date: 2006/10/02 08:53:19, Link
Author: k.e
It's just occured to me that AFD has never had an original thought.

Note how gleeful he gets when he manages to find something he can twist into his warped reality.

He must have stars in his eyes dreaming of making it big in Demon City.

He knows he's on a hiding to nothing, but like some bottom feeding planton feeder he thinks that by hanging around long enough he will gobble up enough dertritus falling into his dim dark high pressure world he will be able to re-surface like some heroic Greek sea god and claim victory over the surface inhabitants.

AFD I hope your gills clog up.

Date: 2006/10/02 09:07:18, Link
Author: k.e
Someone here will know this, but don't some bacteria have 'more' DNA than humans?

Also what is the rough count of unique bacteria?

Watch this AFD

My guess is that the tree diagram that OA posted above even if it had every unique fish, animal etc, both alive and extinct individually listed would pale into insignificance compared to a tree with just  bacteria.

Date: 2006/10/02 17:32:25, Link
Author: k.e
Mike PSS

OK one of rare ad hominems.....snicker

alright then AFD's ancestors weren't weasles...

....ack ack cognitive disonance...mind imploding

nup can't take that back he must have at least 99.9% common DNA with a weasle....

Date: 2006/10/03 05:18:52, Link
Author: k.e
Ross_UK : With that classic illustration  of circular reasoning...

Bluebottle: What time is it Eccles?....
Eccles: Err, just a minute. I've got it written down on a piece of paper. A nice man wrote the time down for me this morning.
Bluebottle: Ooooh, then why do you carry it around with you Eccles?
Eccles: Welll, um, if a anybody asks me the time, I can show it to dem.
Bluebottle: Wait a minute Eccles, my good man.
Eccles: What is it fellow?
Bluebottle: It's writted on this bit of paper, what is eight o'clock, is writted.
Eccles: I know that my good fellow. That's right, um, when I asked the fella to write it down, it was eight o'clock.
Bluebottle: Well then. Supposing when somebody asks you the time, it isn't eight o'clock?
Eccles: Well den, I don't show it to 'em.
Bluebottle: Well how do you know when it's eight o'clock?
Eccles: I've got it written down on a piece of paper.

Did you know Spike Milligan understood evolution?

"Legs are hereditary and run in most families."
Spike Milligan

Thanks Deadman_932 for the following info
K.E :The following page has the best "guesstimates" and information I've seen so far in my limited browsing on bacterial diversity and numbers of species. Basically, they say this: "the smallest drop of temperate seawater or a grain of agricultural soil will also yield myriad 16S rRNA sequences that are new to science"
THAT paper basically says we have no models to determine the actual diversity and it cites an older paper that says " the entire bacterial diversity of the sea may be unlikely to exceed 2 x 10^6, while a ton of soil could contain 4 x 10^6 different taxa. These are preliminary estimates that may change as we gain a greater understanding of the nature of prokaryotic species abundance curves."

So AFD since you accept that science says that all life on earth started as simple cellular life can your creation science explain why there is such abundant diversity of bacteria without using the Theory of Evolution ?

Date: 2006/10/03 05:32:53, Link
Author: k.e
Interesting ... more Darwinist Truth Search methods on display.  Mark that one down with the Darwinist Truth Searches about my career, my dad, my church ... and of course ... Origins.

So you figured it out clever boy...when I said

....nup can't take that back he must have at least 99.9% common DNA with a weasle....

Yes AFD that weasle had two legs.

Date: 2006/10/03 05:56:21, Link
Author: k.e
(stevestory @ Oct. 03 2006,10:29)
It will surprise no one that Tom English has been banned from UncommonlyDense.

Wait, weren't we supposed to be the ones suppressing their freedom of speech?'s all part of the 'Darwinist' konspiracy, ID never gets any attention because the IDiots ban peer peer science...Why?

The peer reviews just say the bleeding obvious about ID.

ID wants pseudo-science peers, peers who are not going to ask questions that have the wrong right answers.

ID has no peers when it comes to Attention/ Intelligence Deficit Disorder.

Like the dyslexic, insomniac agnostic....
ID says:- our peers are peerlessly peeperless and have no peers in science while peering over the precipice into the pit of perpetual pondering, they stay up all night wondering if there really is a dog.

Date: 2006/10/03 06:08:31, Link
Author: k.e
It's interesting to watch how the rational posters who manage to fly under the radar on UD do so by using the same faux niceness all the so called Xtians over there pat each other on the back for.

The hard core idiots can't pick they are being spammed until it's too late then the old knee jerks and as a wise man once said "time wounds all heals"

A nice little bit of culture jamming.

Date: 2006/10/03 08:25:36, Link
Author: k.e
AFD with the old creationist double step

Mike-- Hate to tell you, but your "summary" is so far back, I'm not going to try and find it.  If you want me to consider it ... repost it.  Then try to keep up and state your case quickly and succinctly.  I have yet to figure out what exactly you are trying to tell me.  If you have not noticed, this is a fast moving thread.  I have things to accomplish and I cannot waste time searching for your stuff.

Duck and weave AFD , did you hang around school yards handing out "I lie for Jesus" pamphlets?

That's the last time I heard that cheap, useless, cop out.

After that, if I saw one of you coming, you were asked if you liked sex and travel.

Date: 2006/10/03 09:20:11, Link
Author: k.e
Of course(I have read Dentons Book).  It's also one of my favorite books because it shows how finely tuned the universe is for mankind.


Here let me fix that for you Bible boy.

Of course(I have read Dentons Book).  It's also one of my favorite books because it shows how mankind Denton finely tuned his view of the universe for what his projected ego aka god is.

hand out more 'I lie for Jesus' pamphlets AFD.

Date: 2006/10/03 09:36:11, Link
Author: k.e
SteveS said:
Like PZ once said,

"Reading this new ID blog is like going to a circus where they've fired all the acrobats and animal trainers and it's clowns, clowns, clowns all the time."

Hey don't besmirch the fine art of clowning, no what is left at UD is the guys that they don't let in the tent during showtime, the sh*t shovelers and the carney's with one leg shorter than the other, or a hump.

The spot lights are off and the sad motley crew of broom pushers get to fight over the elephant turds, but hey they wouldn't have it any other way, "Leave show business---no way" one of them was heard to say.

Bill 'Mr Big Top' Deeeee-em-ski rounds them up and locks them in the bus whenever he has to put on a show.

Date: 2006/10/03 17:14:31, Link
Author: k.e
I have no argument with the observation that similar organisms have similar sequences.  I think it's strange how you think this proves evolution, but I certainly agree that humans and apes have similar sequences, corn and sunflowers do also, etc, etc.

However, this has exactly NOTHING to do with what we are talking about.

AFD the Excrable Obscurantist blurts out another of his Freudian faux pas.

ah ...AFD

I think it's strange how YOU think that proves the BIBLE,

Come on AFD explain how Denton proves Genisis, it's your theory remember?

ALSO disparaging the Theory of Evolution DOES NOT prove the BIBLE.

Do you actually believe the comic book version of Noah's Ark? I thought you were joking...and you call yourself an Engineer? You couldn't calculate your way out of wet paper bag.

Date: 2006/10/04 07:35:25, Link
Author: k.e


I can't count the number of times the "Rev Dr" Lenny tried to get Heddle to ping Carol on those long PT threads when all the while all we needed to do was get him to talk to the Wizard of ID under the Big Top.

All that wasted politeness Heddle, see you gotta feel better now right?

BTW the field is open for an honest campaigner, put your thinking hat on and come up with a new catchy term for ID, pull on the red shoes and spandex and write a few books, fame could be yours...if you do a deal with the..... Devil.....BWHHHahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Argy where did the 'super hero' piece with Heddle come from?

Date: 2006/10/04 08:09:05, Link
Author: k.e
Why thank you AFT about.

Or if you are going to say stupid things, kindly keep them short and seldom ... you know ... like K.E does.

You have noticed I don't blather on about things I know very little about, unlike your good self, who seems to take a pathological pleasure in being whipped for being...well stupid.

However, I can safely say that I know more about how evolution works than you do even though you have devoured what appears to be a mountain of books mostly the work of fiction by your own reports.

Why is that AFT wipe?

Well the theory of evolution is so simple even a child can understand it, they can use it straight away if they are taught problem solving using the scientific method.

( as an aside that is why the Bible boys are so sh*t scared of it)

The ToE allows a scientist to make predictions about what will happen to say a virus if people over medicate on anti-virals or this AFUD..

Since each Human has enough unique DNA to allow a forensic identification with enough reliability to be used in a court of law and AT THE SAME TIME inherited DNA that allows identification of distant family members then there should be a method to identify common DNA among various ethnic groups of Humans  and or common ancestors ..right?

Mitochondrial Eve
From Wikipedia,
Mitochondrial Eve (mt-mrca) is the name given by researchers to the woman who is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor for all living humans, from whom all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in living humans is derived. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of the Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor.

She is believed by some to have lived about 150,000 years ago in what is now Ethiopia, Kenya or Tanzania. The time she lived is calculated based on the molecular clock technique of correlating elapsed time with observed genetic drift.

Now Bible  boy what does the Bible say about 150,000 year old African and presumably Black Eve?

Date: 2006/10/04 08:42:57, Link
Author: k.e
Huxley in his "Doors of Perception" posited that one of the side effects of religion was to allow the brain to function by closing off 'unwanted' information.

Neuroscience which as Dr.V.S.Ramachaderan (may be mis-spelt) says is at the same stage as Darwin was 150+ years ago, I can see will unravel why the brain chooses to believe certain plainly ..well unbelievable things

Date: 2006/10/04 08:55:46, Link
Author: k.e
Hey hAFDopey why so strident?

You are such a fake....
you say the earth is 6000 years old and you are using evidence from a 400myo fish????

I, on the other hand, have firm evidence to support my speculation that ...

Ancient lungfish had similar sequences to modern lungfish, namely "Similar Morphologies=Similar Sequences in Modern lifeforms" ... and, the Evo community used to think that ancient lifeforms should have similar sequences to modern similar forms ...

well OK I see why you are acting crazy.

Get off the Bible drug AFD help....its not firm evidence.

Date: 2006/10/04 09:02:58, Link
Author: k.e

Bastard that's how you can talk about yourself in the 3rd person and NOT APPEAR like Berlinski.

(snootily) well k.e doesn't quote himself in his own exept when he's talking about himself..shut up..hey I'll quote you on you can't..why not..because you don't quote yourself remember? ..bah smart arse.

Date: 2006/10/04 09:16:36, Link
Author: k.e
Sharks and Dolphins/Whales good point GW.

Now here is a trick question AFUD

where did mamals first evolve on land or in the sea?

and how many millions of years ago?

And where in the Bible does it give that information?

Date: 2006/10/05 05:45:16, Link
Author: k.e
Geez god boy get it right .....the Kamakazi motif fits ID to a tee...they crashed and burned in Dover remember? The body completely imolated, the airframe totally vaporized and the whole world knows.

ID is dead

Air Nippon Dave ...your last desperate attempt to inspire a dying regime by divine wind hot air ...crashes everytime you take off..fittingly in scratchy old time black and white moving pictures ...pulled from the dusty archives of long forgotten, moth eaten, perished rubber, pre internet, debunked creationists.

But don't stop, with people like you promoting the crash site as a going concern, the whole world can see it will never take off again.

Date: 2006/10/05 06:00:41, Link
Author: k.e
Dembski said -
"What I'm concerned about are sneering critics who think that ID's claims to science are dishonest, confused, ignorant."

Ah yes the  theological appeal to ideological conservative fundamentalism and the faux generosity of spirit and reason updated by the post modernist's appeal to unreality , that any idea that claims to be equal should be considered as an equal.

...aka ....don't ask me about the pesky details, I'm right and I know it and my sychophants agree with me, or so they are told.... because if they don't, they are shown the door quick smart.

That's how this new theology works, it's like old theology ....without the rack.

Date: 2006/10/05 07:29:56, Link
Author: k.e
oooh too good

Quote mining god boy AFD

And now you are not paying attention to the Creationist revival and the truth that is being communicated by an increasing number of first rate PhD'ed scientists in all branches of study.



Keep 'em coming god boy...classic Iraqi Information Minister stuff.

Date: 2006/10/05 08:16:35, Link
Author: k.e
Or the next one

Date: 2006/10/05 08:55:11, Link
Author: k.e
..continues here

Date: 2006/10/05 09:06:11, Link
Author: k.e
The Kansas version

Date: 2006/10/05 09:27:04, Link
Author: k.e
Well when Bill says sneering I suppose he means this.

Sung to the tune of The Simpsons Neighbour Song

 Dembski is his Name
               Homer:  Everybody in the U.S.A.
                       Hates their stupid UCD'er.
                       He's Dembski and he's really, really lame!
                       Dembski tried to wreck my song,
                       His views on birth control are wrong.
                       I hate his guts and Dembski is his name.
Lenny, Carl and Homer:  D-E-M-B-S-K-I!
               Homer:  He's the man that I hate best,
                       I'd like to see his house go up in flames.              

Lenny, Carl, and Homer:  D-E-M-B..
                Homer:  His name is Bill!
Lenny, Carl and Homer:  S-K-I..
                Homer:  That's a stupid name!
                        He's worse than Frankenstein or Dr. No!
          David Byrne:  You can't upset him even slightly,
                        He just smiles and nods politely,
                        Then goes home and worships nightly.
                        His Blogo book shop is an emporium of woe!
Lenny, Carl, and Homer:  D-E-M-B..
                Homer:  Don't yell at Bill.
Lenny, Carl and Homer:  S-K-I..
                Homer:  His wife is (not?)dead!
                        Everybody hates that stupid jerk.
          David Byrne:  Springfield rocks with Homer's joyous loathing,
                        Filling clubs with angry Valentinos.
                        You don't have to move your feet,
                        Just hate Dembski to the disco beat.
David Byrne and Homer:  He's your perky, peppy, nightmare Creationero!
        Homer and Ned:  If you despise polite Right-handers,
                        Then I doubt you'll like Bill Dembski,
                        Or his creepy little offspring Gil and Dave!
         Gil (spoken):  That's us!
        Dave (spoken):  Hooray!
                Choir:  FD-E-M-B..
                  Apu:  His name is Bill,
                Choir:  S-K-I..
                  Apu:  He is so white bread!
         Church Choir:  The smiling Bespectcled geek who walks with God!
     Lovejoy (spoken):  Mass dismissed.

Date: 2006/10/05 09:39:05, Link
Author: k.e
I noticed that to DM.

Mike_PSS was hoping for a sane answer to his GREAT QUESTION several pages ago ( I had to shout that so AFD could hear) and I predicted AFD would blast it off the page with one of his argumentum absurdium/ ad infinitum long posts which AFD was already preparing.

He popped up with a short post for appearances sake but true to form be blasted the page a little later.

Date: 2006/10/05 19:07:49, Link
Author: k.e
You have to wonder...if these sheep were in many fewer illnesses, diseases or world problems would have be or gone unsolved?

Of course ...why bother with materialistic nature its the devils work. God willing, when 'Darwinism' is defeated no more investigation needs to be done they already know what the answer is...and anyway all that science does is produce more gaps..don't you get it?


If God designed or created every and everything was by design then would it not be an act to go against the will of God to cure an illness or changes the path of a virus...or move people out of harms way of a hurricane?

WHAT??? you heathen, help the unfortunate ill and the poor? THAT is just a test of our faith, god is on our side NOT THEIRS, are you saying Jesus was a communist?NO if he was alive today he would fence off the poor, send them more hurricanes and ban all medical research that proves man can create man (without a woman) just like me ...god.

Date: 2006/10/06 09:49:25, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah I haven't taken much notice of the pretenders to Mullah Dembski's Mineret but I wish there were more,

it doesn't take a great deal of imagination to come up with really sensible buzz phrases like say ....'Dissembling Design'.

DD for short..... it's the design you get when you have to make excuses for it.

Which of course begs the question .....who was the Dissembler?

Was it the dude behind the rainbow, or his second cousin?

Who knows..who gives a ****?

But to give the inventor of the 'CD' his credit he needs to pick a less obvious letter combination ......its not as sexy or edgy as 'CSI'

I suggest 'Designers under Inspiration by God'

'DUI by God' for short

...I know..I know ....its a cheap shot has the word god,

but hey the cats out of the bag now and with Congress passing the bill that bans atheists who going to stop us now?

Date: 2006/10/07 01:36:27, Link
Author: k.e
Hey bible boy   ( Yes, LOTS is occurring to me ... namely, that ToE is a hoot!)

Better call these guys up and set them straight, it seems they don't agree with your "one true version of creation" in fact, they seem to be giving it the finger.

'Monster' fossil find in Arctic

Norwegian scientists have discovered a "treasure trove" of fossils belonging to giant sea reptiles that roamed the seas at the time of the dinosaurs.

Make sure you don't give them your name and number tho' bible boy, you don't want the men in  white coats comming around, do you?

Date: 2006/10/07 05:43:07, Link
Author: k.e
Oh and another point AFD since you are claiming X percentage difference between the Human and Chimp Genome what does that actually say?

Are you saying that the time required to produce that difference through evolution from their LCA is more or less than 2,000,000 to 3,000,000 years ago?

If you want to use DNA to calculate time then why is it that scientists who have proven the mathematical  fact the most-recent common ancestor of all humans alive on Earth today with respect to matrilineal descent (Mitochondrial Eve) is 10's of thousands of years older than Y-chromosome Adam?

SO AFD tell us all, where in your bible does it give the age of 'Eve' as less than 6000 years (fundy 'scholars' don't count BTW) when scientists have proven mathematically that the most-recent common ancestor of all humans alive on Earth today with respect to matrilineal descent (Mitochondrial Eve) is more than 150,000 years old? AND didn't live in the same millennium as Y-chromosome Adam?

AFD you are getting an absolute hiding here, help us all out, please provide a mathematical proof this is not the case.

Date: 2006/10/07 06:03:29, Link
Author: k.e
Just looked up this

A Critique of Carl Wieland's AiG article on Mitochondrial Eve by Alec MacAndrew

he ends with

It is my confident prediction that both ill-informed creationists and those who should know better will be using this discredited argument 20 years from now.  They will be as wrong then as they are now.

So how about it AFD ....who was 'Eve's' mother...the stork?

Date: 2006/10/07 07:37:12, Link
Author: k.e
Welcome aboard AFD's very fast sinking "Ark" Cedric

We could include in AFD's conspiracy every financial institution and Oil company in the world for not funding 'creation' based Oil exploration

..I can't imagine why ......there seems to be the mistaken belief by those people that the Carboniferous Age (135 million years ago) was the source for most trapped hydrocarbons.

Climatologists who date ice cores from Greenland using Oxygen isotopes that show the level of trapped oxygen going back over 100,000 years.

Astronomers who just can't get it through their heads that the solar system is only 6000 years old.

Engineers who poo poo the idea of a big wooden ark.

Archaeologists who constantly find stuff older than 6000 years.

All the companies that the produce equipment scientists use for radio-metric's criminal ...surely AFD should sue all those liars.

Date: 2006/10/08 07:31:58, Link
Author: k.e
Oh is our Dopey Designo-Sargent STILL banging on about his SAT scores????

IIRC he took that at between 20-22 years old several years  AFTER the percentile group he was comparing himself to, when everyone else takes it at 16 or 17.

For each year after 16 years old he loses a few percent AND if he goes into the military he loses even more.

His IQ if calculated back would be around 130 IF he was lucky.

In any case his claim is empty unless he took the SAT test at 16 or 17 years old.

The whole thing about IQ is to express a mental age relative to actual age so if you are 50 years old and have an IQ of 200 your mental age would be 100 or 200 or something which is plainly ridiculous so depending which IQ metric one uses points are take off for age.

Points are also taken off for educational level so that someone with a superior education does not have an advantage over someone who hasn't.

That of course would give Dopey Dave Scott Springer a few points back.

I can't be bothered looking it up again but there is plenty of stuff out there at the tip of DSS' fingers which since he is busy growing mushrooms on his boat to prove evolution wrong, I guess he can't spare the time, being a genius and all.

Date: 2006/10/08 08:00:44, Link
Author: k.e
Thank Dog I think you have Herr DSSes number there.

To compensate, he just loves to blow the Demski love doll up by it's equally small plastic pipe.

Not only is poly-tard DaveSS an expert in identifying girly men, he actually actually carries his compensator (or should that be equalizer) under his arm. I'll bet he plays with it as he walks down the street.

Date: 2006/10/08 08:44:40, Link
Author: k.e
AFD, AFD, AFD you must get this fixed

1) Evolutionists NEED Deep Time for ToE to work.  This heavily influences the selection of rocks for RM Dating and the judgment of "good" and "bad" dates.  Example:  the RM "dating" of a human skull at Koobi Fora

That should read

1)Creationists NEED Deep Time for ToE to work.  This heavily influences the creo selection of rocks for RM Dating and the creo judgment of "good" and "bad" dates.  Example:  the revised creo RM "dating" of a human skull at Koobi Fora

Fantastic reference there AFD they offer free steak knives with it.

Your whole case is based on YEAR ZERO being 6000 years ago.

Why do you support negative time?

You should have no touble producing the math to show accelerated DNA changes over that time ....YOU SAY THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING...well bible boy ....overwhelm me.

And why you even acknowlegde TIME EVEN EXISTING BEFORE 6000 years ago is beyond me ...what's the problem? You deny it so why give it any credence at all, in effect you are denying your own denial.

Deny time before YEAR ZERO and DON'T bring it up again.


Now since every other branch of the natural sciences and every sane person on earth already knows that the currently proven  age of the universe is around 13,500,000,000 years which Evolutionists have no reason to disagree with....

the people who worship a book which contains a fairy tale about the earths age but no explanation of how DNA works; once again Creationists NEED Deep Time for ToE to work. otherwise the EVIDENCE would support YEAR ZERO as being 6000 years ago.

So cut the crap about time existing before 6000 years ago and give us your (testable and falsifiable) explanation for your hypothesis.

AFD you know you are lying.

Date: 2006/10/09 04:05:29, Link
Author: k.e
AFD a bibliolater by choice states:

Cedric ... one HUGE difference between a Bond novel and the Book of Genesis:  the writer of the Bond novel never claimed it was actual history ... it was labeled fiction from the start.  The writers of Genesis, on the other hand, ALWAYS claimed that their accounts were actual history ... note the recurring phrase "these are the 'toledoths' of ...", a 'toledoth' being a family history.

Invented works of literature by men. The old testament can only be a collection of the imagined history of the Jewish people, full of kings, conquest, larceny, witchcraft, necromancing, deceit, vanity,incest,egomania,ghosts, slavery, poverty, fear, villains and heroes and an invisible puppet master who only talks through a rabble of rambunctious rabbi's, who say whatever their political masters decree...for a price..the sacrifice of a foreskin.

For a King a bit of skin is nothing, when those priests give herds of 2 legged sheep to him complete with frontal lobotomies or in AFD's case the knife seems to slipped and all he is left with is the reptilian brain (or mind if you are listening skeptic) that is a sacrifice.

Date: 2006/10/09 05:34:04, Link
Author: k.e
Well now, at last some honesty from AFD.

By the way AFD, skeptic doesn't agree with you're "world view" by your standard AFD, Skeptic is going to your Christian h3ll, he's not complaining too much tho', honor amongst skeptic?


So what has essentially happened in America is that school children used to be taught the Christian religion.  Now they are being taught the "Dawkins religion" under the false pretense that it is pure "science."  .

Well AFD if it wasn't for people like you I'm sure Dawkins would find something else to do his complaint is deliberate ignorance promoted by's a pity you are not as bright as him it might be a fair fight.  


Christians like me don't care nearly so much about labels (what is science and what is not) as we do about fairness and not lying.  .

Bwhhahahahahah wow Davey bird brain how is it that you get everything so BACWARDS


Christians Liars like me don't care nearly so much about labels (what is science and what is not) as we do about fairness and not lying  Christian .

Very post modern ....almost gay.


We feel that a much more fair approach to teaching school children would be to say "Here are the facts, kids. Here's the stuff we can test in the lab.  Now here are some various interpretations of the facts regarding Origins ... ToE, Creationism, blah, blah, blah ... now you and your parents decide what you want to believe."

Pity that creationism is a religion AFD..... otherwise you would get that into science class...its all over red rover remember Dover.


I believe that Darwinists can not stand the thought of this possibility because they fear that school children will choose Creationism over ToE if they are only presented the facts without Darwinian bias.

Wow more "woe is me I'm walking backwards over a cliff into my private Christian h3ll...ignorance".


I believe that Darwinists Creationists can not stand the thought of this possibility because they (Creationists) fear that school children will choose ToE over Creationism  if they are only presented the facts without Darwinian Creationist bias.

Time to get back to providing evidence for YEAR ZERO b eing 6000 years ago AFD...see how Pol Pot did it if you need some ideas.

Date: 2006/10/09 08:21:02, Link
Author: k.e

Lies 4 kids AFD shoots himself in the foot again


YOU say it didn't happen, so how can that be evidence for YEAR ZERO being 6000 years ago?????

Come on LIES4KIDS AFD we are all waiting.

And as far a dragging out the stinking corpses of past creo pouters, why bother?

They ALL HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED ALREADY that is why they are on AIG.

Produce your evidence not that old claptrap and hogwash.

If you can't produce the evidence how about a prediction

Here are some for free.

Creationism is true
1. Therefore rabbit fossils will be found in pre-Cambrian sediment ALL OF WHICH can be radio dated at less than 6000 years old.

--By the way that prediction has been proven wrong already but you get the idea.

Date: 2006/10/09 08:25:34, Link
Author: k.e
Holy WTF AFD, someone became an atheist and it wasn't Dawkins fault?

Wow you better round up all the bibles and burn them before that gets out. <snicker>

Date: 2006/10/09 09:24:56, Link
Author: k.e
Plants?.......AFD...... well I'm glad you brought those up.

Because acording to your fairy story THERE SHOULD BE NO PLANTS ON EARTH d*ck head.

40 days under water would kill every single land plant

Now if you are going to say some survived....... then you are lying because the bible is right..right?

Date: 2006/10/09 09:33:44, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah deadman I thought AFD's long list of sciency looking references was a bold move on his part.

As always he hoped no one would actually check to see if he was lying about what those authors actually said...

AFD I'll take back calling you a are are  pathological liar and a coward for putting words in peoples mouths behind their backs.

Date: 2006/10/09 09:41:34, Link
Author: k.e
AFD I'm still waiting on your proof that YEAR ZERO was 6000 years ago something like Jesus died in year 4000 would be good, that would be in the bible right?

Date: 2006/10/09 09:55:05, Link
Author: k.e
AFD did you know god didn't create water? It's not in genesis.

And another thing if you are saying that evolution managed to produce millions of different species in 2000 years after dog waved his big hairy arms and created millipedes to mastodans, why weren't all the millipedes squashed on the ark.

No that was a trick question don't answer it, why do we not see new species generated every day under this accelerated evolution you propose?

Oh and how long did it take for Noah to collect all the insects, to put on the ark?

What did they live on after the flud when the flud killed all the land plants?

Humming birds AFD..... how did Noah feed his humming birds?

Koalas AFD ....where did Noah get the special eucalytus leaves (that only grow in Australia) they need to live on?

Come on bible boy .....prove that the bible is not a fairy tale.

Date: 2006/10/09 17:55:15, Link
Author: k.e
So you see, it’s really all engineering. You either take something that already exists and reverse engineer it (that’s science) or you take the knowledge gained from reverse engineering and create something that doesn’t already exist with it.

Right so mobile phones are just reverse engineering the method dog used to to send Moses his stone tablets.

Any day now we will have mobile phones that can send and receive pizza.

AFD thankyou for proving religion makes people insane to literally lose ones mind.

Actually that's in the bible AFD did you know ? "He who god wants to destroy he first causes to lose their minds." Exodus from memory.

AFD thankyou for proving religion is dangerous.

AFD thankyou for proving religion causes people to lie.

AFD thankyou for proving religion deserves ridicule.

AFD...... Dawkins could not hope to have a greater ally than you.

Date: 2006/10/11 03:28:19, Link
Author: k.e

AFD Your Xmas trees are missing their biblical roots

Date: 2006/10/11 05:23:55, Link
Author: k.e
AFD ....looks like you've blown your biblical boiler there boy.

Have you considered prozac?

the REALLY amusing thing is that your "tree line" reminds me of an old joke.

An Englishman asks an Irish mathmatician what a 1/3 of 100 is.
The mathmatician draws 3 trees on the white board and some other stuff with equals 100 at the end of the line and says "there's your answer".
The confused Englishman asks for an explantaion.
The mathmatician says "Dirty Tree and a Turd plus Dirty Tree and a Turd plus Dirty Tree and a Turd equals 100"

That's about as close as you get to reality AFD

Date: 2006/10/20 07:35:11, Link
Author: k.e
Um, what?  God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, as your scenario implies.

Why if Evey Baby was magically produced out of bone AFD, does every woman have a belly button? (oh and Men have nipples)

Since by your moronic reasoning they would all be an 'Eve' kind or are you going to tell me you don't know how belly buttons come about? (you do have kids right?)

AND your scenario implies the first recorded case of incest in the true (smirk) history of the world as printed by godzown daily stone tablet publishing empire. Eve is genetically Adams daughter by your loony standards.

Now since the REAL (gafaw) history of the NON-birth of Adam and Eve comes directly from your god of truly stupid engineers.

I wonder  if he had cnc machines to engrave the rocks and diamond tiped blades to cut the slabs of unmixed granite from temple mount?

How were these cut rocks shifted around the place ....oh yes...the horse and cart...with wheels.

Any mention in the holee babel about the invention of the wheel AFD?

BTW keep up the good work you're making deadman look like a hero.....even though you try to keep pushing him off the page

....and whats with the sudden splurge of faux honesty old chap?

Trying to destroy your image?

Come now .....admitting you C&P'd some stuff is entirely out of character.....or is Pinocchio whispering in your ear?

Oh Davey....I can see you blushing...quick out with another logical fallacy.....argumentum ad nausium.

A well known technique used by fraudsters ...since Adam was a except he was never a boy ...was he Pinocchio? (he just popped out of thin air like your children)

Date: 2006/10/20 22:05:02, Link
Author: k.e
Well AFD, now that science has proven your old folk tales to be wrong you might want to clear up a couple of points for me.

1.Who was Eve's father? She DID have one right? Adam Or God?  They were the only 2 males on the planet right?
(....after the removal of the agrarian goddesses of pre-history such as  Catal Huyuk  the goddesses got short shrift from the Bedouin cattle herders, but hey that's life in a desert once a bronze age starts.)

2. Why was Mary NOT the mother of god?

You being a "sintist" an' all, should be able to give a truthful and logically consistent answer...

...and spare us the avoidance and used chewing gum answers, the changing of the subject, the false claims of 'explanation'...let me repeat argumentum ad nausium is a logical fallacy and BY DEFINITION is CONCEDEING the argument.

Oh and please send these guys an email and get them to stop telling everyone that 'proto-venus' is at least 15,000 years older than you're YEAR ZERO.


Date: 2006/10/21 01:14:03, Link
Author: k.e
Come on skeptic give us the good oil on ID.

Tell us all what ID REALLY is. (snicker)

BTW anything will do ....since like a definition for gawd any definition and all definitions are equally valid from the Talibans' to the teapot's.

Is that why you omit to chastise the pedlars YEC ignorance?

Hope they will go away to save your little delusion from further embarrassment?

Anything to do with the "big tent" love in for the survival of superstition?

As I said before skeptic THAT IS not skepticism of  the revelation of nature  to mankind by the reasoning mind but a cynical ploy to cover your faith based ass by the acceptance of ignorance, which you know to be the only cause by which most religion survives.

Obscurantism as opposed to enlightenment, the very fuel by which the purveyors of the "One True Word of the Intelligent Designer" fill up on, on Sunday.

So enlighten us...what is ID?

Date: 2006/10/22 04:43:05, Link
Author: k.e
We will get to Antartica and penguins later when we talk about the Ice Age.

Translation from AFDese into English:

Quick change the subject ...please..I'm getting a reaming.

Here is the rest of the blitheringly mind numbing AFDese into English

No.  Only the mutations are bad.  The variability which was designed into these organisms was very good, but this variability is NOT the result of mutations as you have somehow been led to believe in school.

This is your fundamental error.  The sooner you can recognize this error, the more sense genetics will make to you.



No..Osiris doesn't work that way.  

Only the mutations are bad i.e. The devils work.  

The variability which was designed by crackpot engineers to overcome their fear of Baal not existing and dreamed up in an opium of the masses miasma aka religion was projected into these organisms which can't be explained away by AiG was very good since it almost explains away evolution,

but this variability is NOT the result of mutations ...that comes from the devils dice and the great designer who is an engineer uses a HP-41's right every time and as you have somehow been given a proper education which makes me look like a DH because I was led to believe in my "school" a pack of fundy lies.

This is your fundamental error.  The sooner you can recognize this error, the more sense genetics MY STUPIDITY will make to you.

Date: 2006/10/22 19:05:36, Link
Author: k.e
Did god make sand

Do you want that in AFDese?

Well yes...but no...but...but..but...
Throws dice to pick logical fallacy

ooops....number 4 ....argument from ignorance ....d@mn dice always gives me that one. OK try another....

Howabout I just ignore that one BWE...I'm just going to ignore you for no other reason than you make me look stupid

Meanwhile AFD furiously digs away in the quote mines for some fools gold and burns the midnight oil to prepare another of his tracts...WHICH FOR HIM look no different to real science texts.

See guys AFD just looks at the big words and the complexity of the sentences to judge whether something looks truthy and sciency enough.

He knows that the great mindless masses he wants to protect from the devils work (evilution) have no interest or ability to digest the details of one sciency looking tract from another.

They only ask one question "Does the guy writing it believe in *** (insert favourite cults projected deity, AFD's is the false god of bibliolatry)"

That to them is the test for "honesty".

For them "honesty" is not something that can be tested since for them they had to accept the "Big Lie or the Noble Lie" as children, after that it was all down hill.

"Does god exist" the child asks ..


Child:"Prove it"

Mommy:"Accept my lie child and you won't go to h3ll"

Child:" Fan-fucking-tastic I can lie as much as I want"

For them the honesty is a lie.

Got it AFD?

Now back to our regular program of cold lies served up by a hot aired, hand waving fibber.

Date: 2006/10/23 07:00:06, Link
Author: k.e
Ah DHDave I'm here to tell you, you were conclusively punked on your piss weak Portugese claim.

I'm quite happy to have that argument all over again.

And by the way how old is the French Lanuage as spoken in all of France today?

Hint more than 100 years old .....shocking isn't it.

For someone who admits to never having studied either language and has never learn't Latin, the parent of both languages your chosen logical fallacy in this case is the argument from ignorance.

Dave you lost and nothing you can say will change it.

edit ?Ci Oui?

Date: 2006/10/23 20:22:32, Link
Author: k.e
I suspect EE DH AFD was  handing out his lies for jesus cards when he attended his information theory classes.

AFD when biologists talk about Shannon information they are not talking about a subjective meaning in a message i.e. knowledge or interpretation of sensory stimulus such as sound or reading a blog,   but  statistical probabilities of a symbol being corrupted in a physically limited medium that has a numerical measure of the uncertainty of an outcome from one state to another e.g. transmitter to receiver, the medium can be anything such as DNA.

I know you don't understand that but look at it this way suppose the bible was only ever written in Ancient Swahili using an unknown script and no one was allowed to read it because the first page had the warning in all languages past and present (in Ancient Greek script) that the wrath of Hog would be visited upon  anyone who did read it and it had been documented that those who tried were instantly burned to a cinder.

Now .....does that bible contain information as defined by Shannon as a message/knowledge independent set of symbols containing relationship order  OR a subjective  message with meaning communicating an understanding?

AFD you have NO CONCEPT of CONTEXT, your message contains a lie however it is still 'information' but NOT in the Shannon context.

Now AFD back to prothelizing for pseudoscience, where lies ARE it's information.

When are you bringing up  Flat Earthism  and Geocentrism you old Arkist?

Date: 2006/10/24 17:32:45, Link
Author: k.e
You are wrong and AIG is right. ---> The mutation caused the protein to LOSE function ... inhibited maturation of HDL ... impaired activation of lecithin


Not even once.

BY DEFINITION it is anti right.

IF they posted actual non pseudo science they would be absolutely irrelevant, they would literally disappear in a puff of logical smoke.

It would cease to exist, there would be no reason for its IP address, it would have passed on, carked it, turned up its toes, shuffled off its mortal coil........

They have never once posted a peer reviewed document that supports a literal interpretation of Genesis AND NEVER WILL it is a physical impossibility.

Genesis is a MYTH mere words from the dreams of ancient men, entertainment for camel herders and sand farmers. Always has been and always will be.

Would you like me to have God himself call you on the phone to make it a little plainer?


Dave, dave, dave...mentioning the lord in vain?

Reducing her to a mere turn of phrase?

A cartoon deity for a cartoon believer?

tch tch...get thee to a synagogue thou spawn of Satan.

Date: 2006/10/24 18:31:16, Link
Author: k.e
incidental info on noise.

AFD will be aware that engineers use noise to test radio receivers.

To determine the actual residual noise introduced by a receivers own circuits a calibrated wideband random noise source is hooked up to the receiver and the average power is compared between the noise source on and off thus giving the receivers own noise relative to the calibrated source.

The noise source has to have more noise power output than the inherent noise power of the receiver.

The receivers noise power is described in degrees Kelvin.
This value then can be used to determine the receivers minimum discernible signal sensitivity.
By definition 0 degrees Kelvin is zero noise power.

AFD what is the information contained in that noise?

As long as the receivers own noise is lower than the back ground cosmic noise then the background noise can be measured (as power and thus temperature) .....imagine the surprise of Robert Wilson when he and his partner Arno Penzias at Bell Labs in 1965 hooked up their new super low noise microwave receiver, pointed it at the sky and discovered  noise when none was expected. They thought that pidgeon poo on the antenna was the cause at first.

Robert Wilson later won the 1978 Noble Physics prize for his part in the discovery of CMB.

It turned out they had discovered the background heat energy left over from the Big Bang 13-15 billion years ago first theoretically proposed in 1952.

As with information in the scientific sense, noise itself has many different definitions and uses.

Now here is a question AFD how many years before your GENESIS YEAR ZERO was the BIG BANG? (snicker, giggle)
pssst ...its OK to describe it in NEGATIVE YEARS ...tossbag.

And while you are at it...... quick get an email off to NASA they haven't heard about AFDism

Discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background

Also WHAT is the information contained in CMB?

Date: 2006/10/24 19:28:58, Link
Author: k.e
I wonder more about Dembski.  He must have started out with all his Ph.D.'s expecting to set the world on fire and hoping to change intellectual history, but look at where he is now and the people who inhabit his reality.  That has to rankle.

Pseudo science thrives on sychophants and Dembski doesn't give a flying fig as long as they have money.

Plus he is not that proud that he won't take compliments from complete morons, a vote is a vote.

Date: 2006/10/24 19:54:05, Link
Author: k.e
Eric said:
You're(afd) accusing deadman of making an honest mistake when he's done no such thing.

Well of course he would AFD has ZERO CREDIBILITY so the only way forward for him is the REDUCE the credibility of the adversary... the classic ad hominem.

Meanwhile, you've (afd) made a dishonest mistake by ignoring contrary evidence that's placed right under your nose.

Hah! dishonest mistake?

oh no no no Eric a calculated, malicious and deliberate attempt to subvert proven scientific TRUTH's. AFD ....your so called trvth is the opposite of TRUTH your's is the PRAVDA (The propaganda organ of the old Soviet State)of science.

AFD ignoring contrary evidence ??

AFD DOES NOT DO EVIDENCE he is incapable, he would have to give up the lie he has lived his whole life.

His own unique form of creationism REQUIRES its own religion ...AFDism.

Very similar to early christianity....say that of a 5 or 6 year old ....completely unworldly and completely convinced they are right at the same time.


Date: 2006/10/25 03:19:39, Link
Author: k.e
but he really lit up when my gf told him that she loves his tie (the one he wore on the Colbert Report actually.)  Apparently his wife painted the tie for him and he was very excited to talk about it.

We have a saying down here in Australia for blokes like that...smooth bastard...said for example, when a bloke opens a door for a sheila. Puts a bloke off his beer, that sort of thing. Still, it could have been a bit of light relief for him not to have put up with more 'breathtaking inanity' so I'll let him off ...this time.

Date: 2006/10/25 07:40:59, Link
Author: k.e
No, Dave, he didn't lose the argument. You did. Even if you hadn't lost it, it wouldn't help your case in the slightest, but you did lose. As usual.

Yes, Eric, I know ... I've heard this before ... at ATBC a creationist can never be right.  

k.e summed it up pretty well ...  

Not even once.

BY DEFINITION it is anti right.

Quote mined by AFD, I suppose I should feel gratified.

You missed out the important bit, AFD... the bit about Genesis is a MYTH and thus creationism being RELIGIOUS DOGMA and AiG being pure crap pseudo science.

But then you already knew that, and to try and make it seem it is science (coff....splutter) you claim martyrdom?  hoo  hoo.

No ...but really I feel for you AFD, what did JJ fromm Dover say ...deeply held beliefs etc etc....where is the faith?

Give us some old fashioned faith bro, give us a few Halleluya's and everlasting glory b'jesus...give us some o' dat wrapture

Come on Davey get down on your knees and turn your eyes up inside your skull and show us all how god works.

Make fools out of us, pray fo' de smiting an' de nibbling of our own arms off.

Glory be Davey, get some o' dat god juice down yer throat and cast out the demos...yes davey ...demos..god has a special offer on demo demons today only....get your demo demons while the dogmas hot.

hey did that guy hand out those flyers at your church of the one true word of the designer?

It would have been pretty funny watching you run around trying to get them all.

Date: 2006/10/25 08:03:54, Link
Author: k.e
Nice one  AFD  a full page of thruthy c&p'ed BS

2 can play that game



No, Dave, he didn't lose the argument. You did. Even if you hadn't lost it, it wouldn't help your case in the slightest, but you did lose. As usual.  

Yes, Eric, I know ... I've heard this before ... at ATBC a creationist can never be right.  

k.e summed it up pretty well ...    


Not even once.

BY DEFINITION it is anti right.


Quote mined by AFD, I suppose I should feel gratified.

You missed out the important bit, AFD... the bit about Genesis is a MYTH and thus creationism being RELIGIOUS DOGMA and AiG being pure crap pseudo science.

But then you already knew that, and to try and make it seem it is science (coff....splutter) you claim martyrdom?  hoo  hoo.

No ...but really I feel for you AFD, what did JJ fromm Dover say ...deeply held beliefs etc etc....where is the faith?

Give us some old fashioned faith bro, give us a few Halleluya's and everlasting glory b'jesus...give us some o' dat wrapture

Come on Davey get down on your knees and turn your eyes up inside your skull and show us all how god works.

Make fools out of us, pray fo' de smiting an' de nibbling of our own arms off.

Glory be Davey, get some o' dat god juice down yer throat and cast out the demos...yes davey ...demos..god has a special offer on demo demons today only....get your demo demons while the dogmas hot.

hey did that guy hand out those flyers at your church of the one true word of the designer?

It would have been pretty funny watching you run around trying to get them all.

Date: 2006/10/25 08:33:19, Link
Author: k.e
How thick is de de de dave?

AFD what is a digital recording made up of?

0#10 things right?

How much Shannon Information is in a DIGITAL recording of white noise?

AFD looks in mirror and percieves the designer left out eyes for reading and a brain for comprehension.

How much faith does one creationist need when reason is missing? Well in AFD's case not a lot, about as much as a 5 year old.

Date: 2006/10/25 09:07:48, Link
Author: k.e
Grey_Wolf_c don't forget the logical fallacy of circular reasoning

The flud really happened
-How do you know?
The Bible says so
-How do you know the Bible is correct?
The Bible says it is correct.

logical fallacy Ad Hominem-
Trying to cast aspertions on deadmans character and not addressing the argument.

AFD you are the logical  fallacy gift that just keeps giving.

A real freak show.

Date: 2006/10/25 09:17:50, Link
Author: k.e
AFD you really have to try harder AiG is a pure bullshit pseudo science website.

Subscribe to a real science website and give us some real anti-evolution stuff, since it is 'fact' then there must be hundreds of articles out there.

How about wiki (smirk) where are all the flud proofs?

Did you sent an email to NASA to tell them that Cosmic Microwave Background radiation does not prove a 13-15 billion year old universe?

If not,why not?

Date: 2006/10/25 09:31:43, Link
Author: k.e
Oh for Christ's sake BWE now AFD is going to have to send another email, those ice core guys are claiming that the cores were laid down up to 160,000 years ago, God help us AFD is never going to have time to feed us all with his faith based bullshit.

Date: 2006/10/25 18:23:50, Link
Author: k.e
.....Instead, he's gone round and round on the issue, burning up bandwidth, trying to support an unsupportable position. He ends up making himself look foolish, even if he doesn't see it that way.

Yeah looks like AFD jumped another (Portuguese) shark but AFD is nothing if not Clintonian on his stain, DNA evidence not withstanding or Bushite on WMD's instead of Oil as the reason for going into Iraq.  

He makes Bush look like a rank amateur on claiming victory though

Mission accomplished ..what o ..Davey? The flud proved?    Bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

AFD has the integrity, morals and conscience of a politician, where even the definition of 'is' is malleable and goodthink/doublethink rules.

Heck afd makes some politicians look like saints.

AFD ............Science sets it's  integrity, morals and conscience far beyond your corruption of those values AND YOUR RELIGION , you are an absolute disgrace standing there in your cum stained dress wearing your dunces hat declaring victory ...again.

Mission accomplished?... AFD?

....It hasn't happened yet but here is my guess..the US declares 'peace with honor' and leaves Iraq. (Forced out By its own population who have woken up to the LIES of A FUNDY CREATIONIST GOD TALKING president)

The Iraqi factions all declare victory (over the US)and continue to fight each other even though they have 'won'.

.... AFD keeps lying and declaring victory (peace with honor) but no one listens THEN HE DIES LIKE NIXON.

....oh the absurdity of it.

...oh the pseudo sciencey private definition of information of it.

Give up AFD you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, you have proven it every single time.

Date: 2006/10/25 18:48:56, Link
Author: k.e
AFD did your own personal little god (in a fragranced dispenser with your churches logo on it.... one presumes)send a message in your DNA?

Did the first begat have its vibrating neurons synchronize with the great Flying Spaggetti Monster to produce the first ever DNA replication when Adam Jumped EVE? oops chicken before the egg.

Tell us all AFD when was the very first DNA replication?

Take a deep breath and enlighten us ...give all the good oil.

Show us how de lard writ de life on de land.

Give us some old fashioned hand waving AFD, and de finger pointing wit de miracle and de k-nashing o' de teeth.

Come on jesus boy.


Date: 2006/10/25 19:13:24, Link
Author: k.e
Howabout xzy?

Define xzy (and everyones is different).... it is no different to to definition of nothing and everything at the same time, useless except as a means of group control ........did I hear ...bleeting?

Date: 2006/10/25 20:30:37, Link
Author: k.e
Mommy's boy AFD should have taken English as a subject at school, then he would know what <i>Hoist with his own petard </i> means.

There's letters seal'd: and my two schoolfellows,
Whom I will trust as I will adders fang'd,
They bear the mandate; they must sweep my way
And marshal me to knavery. Let it work;
For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petar:
and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon: O, 'tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet.

Hoist by his own private fundy engineer pseudo science definitions.

AFD your bullcrap specificity is just subjective nonsense change hands for christ's sake.


The 3rd day of creation or not?



Date: 2006/10/25 20:43:31, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah yeah pass the collection plate

Date: 2006/10/26 05:20:44, Link
Author: k.e
First, Eric and Drew maintain that Random Noise (Signal X) has more information content that a Winston Churchill Speech (Signal Y).

AFD you complete cockhead read the friggin statement A DIGITAL RECORDING of Random Noise (Signal X) has more information content that a Winston Churchill Speech (Signal Y).
both are made up of ONES and ZERO's.

The noise is converted to symbols and becomes 'information'.

Jesus friggin Christ.

Date: 2006/10/26 05:58:14, Link
Author: k.e
Crikey. K.E.'s posts are starting to make sense to me.

I'm spending too much time on this damm site.

Uh-oh.  I had that exact same thought yesterday...



I'm trying to work out if that is a good sign or a bad sign :)

...not to worry ...they make perfect sense to me...snicker.

AFD may be the last wretch of the creationist stomach on PT and AtBC.

His Nixonian glory days are past and we can look foward to a long twilight of '...nobody understood me, and as for an apology?.... go and get &^%*(#@'

Glut of Paley is a complete waste of space.

I notice Larry Farterman the loony internet lawyer has had the last 2 posts up at PT for over a day. Nobody can even be bothered to answer him, he must think he 'won' (gaffaw).

As for the dozen delerious denizens of Unremittingly Dense ....would the last to leave turn out the lights.

Date: 2006/10/26 06:09:42, Link
Author: k.e
Come on Jesus boy I'm still waiting


5999 years and 4 days ago?

Date: 2006/10/26 06:30:49, Link
Author: k.e

...So either you are becoming more lucid, or I'm becoming more educated...

Or I'm becoming less lucid.

It's the third option that scares me.

OR IF I'm becoming more lucid am I becoming less educated? Now THAT REALLY worries me.

Granted tho' I accept dredging out the deeper recesses of my grey folded matter  for literary gems lodged in the sludge and offering them up without their long forgotten sources could seem slightly Joycean.

I agree ...too long on the same subject dulls the mind
still 'tis fun to poke holes in AFD's straw.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:33:00, Link
Author: k.e
BWE ..
And PS, k.e. I have always understood what you are saying. And I don't think the references are too far out of the norm although you do tend to include a lot of romantic author's quotes. That can be a little jarring to those of us who spend a lot of time in this concrete world of reports and numbers and data and the like.

Ha ..I have been found out.

Indeed ....I confess to jar-ing numbers and data and uncorking sweet scented subjectivity.

and BWE I am a fan of Blake's poetry.

AFD the man from the department for a factualized bible thinks more numbers and silly anti-science 'facts' are contained in his bible when  in reality it is pure subjectivity.

His technocratic dystopia is completely devoid of subjective meaning to him that would be relativism.

The Bible AFD IS A STORY, fiction.

Words without objects, the language of public dreams, Mythology. A masculine sky and the missing feminine ocean (in Genesis the old Camel drivers forgot to say anything about the creation of water) , the old Egyptian cosmology turned upside down and crafted to put Man back on top.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:38:44, Link
Author: k.e
Just clue me in here guys, has AFD got some mindlock on the creo definition of 'information' because of 'The Fall'?

The woe is me, all is grief and pain, school of theology?

I've never got my head around that bit of nonsense.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:47:04, Link
Author: k.e
Ah swar, ya honor ... less affectiv don't mean the same thang as rastricted sahz and growth!  Those AIG boys iz lyin' scumbags!  Honest!


Date: 2006/10/26 17:29:44, Link
Author: k.e
So Davey poo when are you going to declare defeat on Shannon information in the digital recording fiasco.

here I'll give you a 'clintonesque' tip ....start the sentence with.

"I never had sex with my wife".

Don't worry EVERYONE will believe you.

Date: 2006/10/26 18:43:33, Link
Author: k.e
Lou FCD, you said:
After a few minutes reflection, I believe that my comments may have been more self-referential than I would have cared to admit.

To paraphrase Alexander Pope

'To project is human, to reflect divine'

It's funny you say that but I have come to the same conclusion several times when replying to AFD. And have had to catch myself and re-do some comments.

AFD's programming has made him completely immune to world views outside his cult.

I've noticed this before in religious cults, the programming is actually REINFORCED by pressure from outside agents to change their view. "Thou will be greatly strengthened by challenges to your faith" etc. etc.

In the end IT IS ALL projection, as BWE's quote of Blake  shows. A consequence of mans ability to 'read minds', a necessary mechanism for social animals. Your dog can read your mind..right? I had my daughters pet rabbit (which she abandoned) playing games  and doing tricks I could read its 'mind'. Any horse person will tell you the same. Those animals are all social animals.

So by 'projection' what do I mean, it is NOT the ability to see into another mind, that is actually empathy, the projected image of the other persons mind inside our mind is only the reflection of our own mind that is self generated and is limited by intelligence,values and experience .  AFD will say he is completely unaware of that (the consummate politician/liar), he honestly believes his mind is bigger than his brain (god for him) and is able to control those with weaker minds around him (to perform god's wishes)

AFD's god is his projected 'intelligence' which unfortunately for those around him, makes them stullifyingly stupid.

....k.e. that wasn't intended as an insult....

Thanks BWE I'm a fan of your work to. The cameos on your website are an absolute hoot. It's very gratifying to see that whole of the US hasn't gone god/rapture mad. And no I don't teach, my wife does tho'. I'm an electronics engineer with an interest in art and literature.

They used to frustrate me, until i started reading them as if they were written in strine and punctuated with a random number generator

Yes Steve.... it seems no matter what I do, I'll never satisfy your punctuation parser. I must be 'punctuation dyslexic'.(I'll save up some extra commas for you)

Date: 2006/10/26 23:55:23, Link
Author: k.e
BWE wrote:
Your signature is quite apt.

hehe ....a bit of inspired nonsense.

Who was it that said "Good poetry is inspired, great poerty is stolen" maybe W.H.Auden or Keats? Anyway probably a myth.

Do you recognise this?

Chuck Norris doesn't actually write books, the words assemble themselves out of fear

But honestly that's what happens with a good deal of stuff that makes it to the screen, the words do assemble themselves while ryhming.

The other line is from a poetry generator in the style of William Burroughs, I liked it so much I took it home. You give it a word and get 'cut up poetry' ....besides I pushed the button that inspired the computer.

Now I'm going to have to change it .....maybe.

Here is some more from RoboPoet

gray battle-axe crashes undesirably,  narcissistic laundromat envelops irritably,  dark agitation languishes thinly,  aggressive laundromat entombs undesirably,  broken summer capitulates hysterically,  gray life smotes expectantly,  narcissistic vein sighs uncomfortably,  vestigal sheep shrieks unholily,  tribal corduroy defers blankly,  ignominious light looks drolly,  foul vortex burns completely,  deliberate vortex burns impersonally,  concrete sheep dies immortally,  perfect vessel craves impersonally,  boastful laundromat languishes undesirably,  aggressive vowel burns bleakly,  broken life crashes impersonally,  undisciplined dream mars balmily,  plastic concubine envelops drolly,  perforated life nourishes awfully,  

Now if only AFD made as much sense.

Date: 2006/10/27 03:36:59, Link
Author: k.e
Nothing about zero noise here.  In fact, there is no such thing as a noiseless channel in the real world to my knowledge.  It was a very simple question.  Just "is there more info in the speech or the noise?"  Period.  

AFD you lies for jesus junky.

You remind me of the guy sitting at the front of the class that everyone gratuitously insults every time you open your stupid trap.

YOU ARE TALKING about signal(Shannon information, with redundancy) to noise ratio in a SINGLE channel.

WE ARE talking about TWO CHANNELS where the noise is identical in each channel and the SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO is well above the channel's physical medium noise.

The first channel has highly compressible DATA (speech)the second channel has DATA (white noise generated by an audio noise source at for example 20db Above the noise floor of the recording equipment) that cannot be compressed.

The channel's physical medium is a DIGITAL RECORDING.

The DATA streams consisting 1's and 0's are then compressed with a lossless compression algorithm.

The gaps in human speech are coded as zero's (for example) PLUS there is a limited amplitude and frequency range for human speech which when converted from the analog domain to the digital domain do not cover the full range of available numbers for each symbol in the data stream.

When the data stream is compressed the SIZE of the resulting DIGITAL FILE will be LESS than the ORIGINAL digital  recording file size.

White noise when digitized will contain an equal number of 1's and 0's with no gaps (long strings of 0's) due to quite periods PLUS the FULL frequency range of the channel and a greater amplitude range THAT will produce a larger range of symbols (individual 16 bit words if the digital channels are 16 bit as an example).

The high level audio noise stored as DATA is MUCH LESS COMPRESSABLE and produces a larger file.

The QUANTITY of 'Shannon Information' in this case only refers to the COMPRESSED DATA VOLUME in BOTH CASES regardless of the human readable content.

If you want to extend the analogy to traditional DATA transmission then....

IT DOES NOT MATTER what the medium is, it could be Fiber Optic, microwave link , morse code or smoke signals or DNA. The channel size (bandwidth and modulation rate for a given symbol set, data transmission is described in symbols per second) and thus sets the TIME required for transmission a given volume of DATA.

Channel noise will affect both data streams by the same amount and can be ignored since the recieved DATA files will still bear the same file size relationship to one another after reception.

In this case you are conflating channel noise with high level audio noise stored AS DIGITAL DATA.

Now tell us you don't understand this.

You are either being completely disingenuous are deliberately lying, in any case both are inexcusable for someone who claims to be an EE.

Date: 2006/10/27 03:59:59, Link
Author: k.e

I'm still your friend ... God says "a friend loveth at all times" even if it is not appreciated ... being a friend to you and everyone else here does not necessarily mean saying what you WANT to hear ... being a friend means telling you the truth ... about biology ... about history ... and about life ... here and hereafter.

oooh AFD sucks up, preaching to the 'enemy' is part of your mission is it davey boy?

Or do the two legged sheep from your church wander away when you get up on the Pulpit?

Sheep are boring, aren't they AFD?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only 'history' you accept is a few dried and dead fictions in just one book, everything thing else must be contorted to fit the fable...right?

It's not just science in danger from the Dogmatists. History and thus the  future would be their next targets once they have Evolution removed from biology classes.

<i> and hereafter</i>

snicker ...don't get me going about the 'hereafter'....oh OK....  just get anyone whose died to give me a call AFD. Howabout Napoleon? He was a narcisist driven mad by the dream of reason...could be an interesting conversation.

Date: 2006/10/27 04:17:55, Link
Author: k.e
So that means I'm GOD, right? ;)

The Hindu greeting is to clasp together their open hands (as if to pray) point them to the guest, bow and say 'Namaste'

'I greet the god in you' ;)

In one word that sums up the difference between Western and Eastern Religion.

There is a cave somewhere in India (Joeseph Campbell talks about it in one of his talks) where there is a painting of 'god'(a symbolic represenation to be taken subjectively). It has a head with a male face pointing to the right and a female face pointing to the left, one wonders if Picassso was inspired by that. Several of his paintings repeat that theme, "The Dream" by him recently in the news has the male and female face kissing on the one female body, his sleeping mistress in this case.

Date: 2006/10/27 07:03:46, Link
Author: k.e
k.e ... tell you what ... if you want to believe that white noise contains more info than a speech, you just go right ahead, K?  I'll like you just as much ... promise! :-)


I'll take that as a win AFD just can't admit defeat can you.

A better analogy would be comparing the file size of 2 jpg's, one of 'snow' on a TV screen and one with a text of churchills speech on a TV screen but the text aranged in random order ...wriggle out of that.... if you can AFD.

'Shannon Information' is not in the least bit concerned with the SUBJECTIVE MEANING of the text.


AFD ...tell you what .. if you want to believe that AiG contains more (AFD) information than white noise  you just go right ahead, K?  I'll not think any less ? of you ... promise! :-)

Date: 2006/10/27 07:19:54, Link
Author: k.e
Seek treatment AFD ...see if you can find the source for this.

Just as we can contribute to our own illness in other diseases, we can contribute to our own mental disorder. We can do this by willfully believing lies. For example, denial of reality, projection, make-believe, phoniness, unknowing, calling things what they ain't, wishful thinking, anti-logic, whistling in the dark, acting out charades, and all the mental tricks people play, and all the little games people play are lies. When a person lies to himself (friends don't lie to friends), he is being his own worst enemy and sabotaging his own mind.

Date: 2006/10/27 07:37:53, Link
Author: k.e
The interesting thing is that Dave believes in macroevolution just as much as any dyed-in-the-wool evolutionary biologist. He just thinks it happens millions of times faster.

AFD has no ability to conceptualize time.

The information thing is a case in point he doesn't even consider that it is a metric of information transmission and interchangeable with channel bandwidth.

For him the wool is so firmly pulled over his eyes that to even remotely consider the implications of rate of change and time would mean instant death for his projected ego ...his god other words.

He has a hard won cultish veneer lacquered over a deep insecurity that provides him with the ability to disregard reality.  The racing continents for example.

So why does he use the 'language of science' without the empirical evidence.

It feeds his need to seem superior to his family and friends and because AiG provides a sciency looking story that allows his ark to float, he can accept his own deluded dreams as if they were reality..

In fact as I have said before all this engagement by us FEEDS his NPD, its the fuel for his insanity.

The best thing to do would be to withdraw the fuel.

Date: 2006/10/27 08:43:36, Link
Author: k.e
AFDave, if you had a sudden flash of insight and realized that evolution was true, would that have any impact on your position in the church, or your relationship with friends or other community members? Just curious.


SteveS you should know by now he is in the middle of one of his sessions with scissors and glue even as you ask that question.

He may make a little post to throw us first, but dollars to doughnuts he'll give us a page full of absolute cr*p, one of his second hand chewing gum reposts of denial.

Date: 2006/10/27 09:04:23, Link
Author: k.e
ScaryFacts said.

Dave is risking far more than his ego.

Consider:  All of Dave’s friends, family, his entire social and emotional support network is tied up with his faith.  It’s very common for Christians to live their lives isolated from all meaningful outside contact.

To accept the fact of evolution means Dave no longer has any life.

Is it any wonder he struggles to comprehend?

The age old problem of the clash of horizons.

Jews vs Moslems, and so on, humans divided by nothing other than dogma.

Religion is so intent on looking back and inward that whenever there is a challenge to its dogma it more often makes the choice not to go beyond the horizon set by its dogma. The Amish are a classic example

Science is the archetypal explorer determined to go beyond the horizon, even if there are demons over an imaginary line.

And those demons are VERY REAL to AFD.

All his fears of what lies beyond his safe little world haunt him.

They are however, only in his mind.

NASA calls their mission to Pluto (I think) "New horizons" to perhaps capture the public imagination and get creationists to look outwards to see that their stunted understanding of the creation of the Earth is limited by their dogma.

Its a nice thought, I suppose.

Date: 2006/10/27 09:44:20, Link
Author: k.e
How about walking on water or water to wine?

Only in your dreams.

Date: 2006/10/27 20:15:02, Link
Author: k.e
AFD wrote

Eric ... Quote  
So why do you think it is, Dave, that seemingly everyone here agreed with me, and no one agreed with you?

1) Because I'm the enemy

You are not 'the enemy' AFD you are just plain WRONG.

You are trying to convince yourself the absolute nonsense you dredge up from frauds such as Ken Ham is fact.

It is not, it is RELIGIOUS DOGMA.

And RELIGIOUS DOGMA is never fact, it is social manipulation, tribal propaganda and cultural engineering...but then you already know that don't you.... Lies for Kids AFD.

You make an enemy of yourself because you lie (bend the truth), obfuscate, obscure, change the subject, argue to see who can argue the most regardless of content, ignore evidence, change definitions, move goalposts, throw in red herrings, indulge in every self seeking political technique to cover your personal belief.

All that was tested in court in Dover and guess what?

The Judge agreed..but he went further and called it "Breathtaking inanity".

How does it feel to be deeply shallow AFD?

You truly are devoid of the least bit of introspection aren't you?

2) Because people like Hubert Yockey also confused the definition and he's famous ... even if they harbor some doubts they'll they'll throw their hat in the ring with their ideological brethren as long as they don't have to stand totally alone.  They are basically saying ... OK, we got Schneider and AFDave (creo lunatic) on one side, and we got Yockey and our buddy Eric (ToE guy) on the other ... done deal.

I'm glad you brought Hubert Yockey up, the bête noire of the crazy creo 'data is information (from g$d) obscurantism movement'...done and dusted.


I learned a long time ago that you people believe the strange things you do primarily because "all the other scientists do" ... not because you have independently analyzed them and think they are true.

Let me fix that little projection AFD

I learned a long time ago that my people believe the strange things we do primarily because "all the other scientists cult members do" ... not because we have independently analyzed them and think they are true.

denying weight of evidence AFD is the purpose of your cult brings in the $'s


Has anyone here written publicly on something you felt was true, but you were in the extreme minority?  I'm real curious to know this.

Yes, not to do so is pure hubris.


Steve-- Uh, yes ... if I became convinced ToE was true, I'm quite sure I would also then believe the Bible was just a book of man, not of God.  Yes, I would then quit helping K4T and probably take my family to the Country Club on Sunday instead of church.

So it's all or nothing eh?

AFD why don't you check the list of 10,000 clergymen who support the ToE and learn some humility or are you scared they might tell you a few truths you don't want to hear.


All of which I would be quite fine with me ... because of course IF Toe were true, then that would be the smartest thing I could think of to do.

What, give up your FAITH? ARE YOU AN ATHEIST?


(But don't get excited ... I'm much farther from believing ToE is true than I was when I came here.)

AFD the ToE does not require YOUR BELIEF, loser.

It is the tested and documented REAL history of life on earth going back billions of years....sorry you don't 'believe' that. boo hoo hoo life is sin and regret, woe is you.

Date: 2006/10/28 04:39:35, Link
Author: k.e
Indeed 1/2 equivocation and half contrarian lameness.

AFD is just an incredibly slow learner.

He wakes up to the fact that when Shannon talks about information he is talking about what we now call DATA (independent of what that DATA may contain ....e.g. its coloquial definition of information or cultural content) and that the noise or 'incompressible random data' that Eric was talking about was not channel noise.

except for this

So the way to get your Rrn > Rrs (Rr > Ru in Drew's terminology) is to crank up the transmission rate of the Noise , Rtn, higher than the Speech rate, Rts, which of course can be done simply by using a higher frequency oscillator at the transmitter which is transmitting the signal.

Well not quite....I assume you mean by "using a higher frequency oscillator at the transmitter which is transmitting the signal" that you mean use a wider channel bandwidth?

That is only necessary if you wish to use the same symbol rate and maintain the same transmission time for the larger data file.

The bit rate for a given channel is dependent on 3 things

1.signal power to (channel) noise power ratio (SNR)
3.symbol rate (baud rate) which is set by the modulation scheme

You can trade off SNR for increased baud rate by coding more symbols per second (using a faster modulation scheme)

So by using a faster symbol rate in the same bandwidth a larger data file could be transmitted in the same time ...provided the transmitted signal is not attenuated by the physical medium to below the recievers Minimum Discernable Signal power (+ noise margin for the channel) for that particular modulation scheme.

I'm sure you haven't forgotten that have you AFD?

As far as what YOU THINK of the ToE ...well tough titties.

Date: 2006/10/28 04:56:04, Link
Author: k.e

I am seriously considering doing what Steve Story has suggested at times ... picking up a biology textbook ... and getting a degree in Molecular Biology.  Not because I think I need to do this to debate you guys more effectively, but because many people equate credibility with degrees.  That's the way it is in our culture and I may need credibility in the biological sciences in order to accomplish some of the things I want to accomplish.

Hey why don't you contact the DI and see if they offer 'research scholarships'  ...snicker.. chuckle.

Incidently one of my daughters is doing just that...oh and English literature. She'd bust your ass.

Date: 2006/10/28 05:13:38, Link
Author: k.e
Christ Davey you just can't take a trick can you?

You come over all conciliatory and make a final appeal to "common sense" and STILL get slapped.

You really need to mediate on RATE.

Change with time.

Get your calculator out and work out the time required given the distance traveled and the inches of movement per year (express it as miles per hour just for a laugh) for the break up of Pangea to present day.

Actually forget that.

You and Eric ride off into the sunset and he can tell you all about the controlled demolition conspiracy and you can tell him about the "new logic" sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes should make a lovely couple.

Date: 2006/10/28 05:32:56, Link
Author: k.e
Eric I think AFD has conceded that point in his roundabout way although he does seem to have a basic comprehension problem or learning difficulty with regard to the coloquial use of the word information versus data.

Date: 2006/10/28 06:13:05, Link
Author: k.e
It would seem AFD has a private definition for the word evidence to.

Date: 2006/10/28 07:07:52, Link
Author: k.e
You conceded AFD

...OK, if you want to say that "Data=Info" then yes.

Are you trying to say that Shannon Information is not Data?

Date: 2006/10/28 07:21:32, Link
Author: k.e
Russell said re AFD's 'info' theory

the Transmitter = God,
the Message = an hypothetical original "uncorrupted" genetic sequence
the Communication Channel = multiple rounds of replication, and
the Receiver = modern existing organisms

Is it possible that anyone could be that stupid?

Date: 2006/10/28 08:42:31, Link
Author: k.e

Is this the Tom Schneider  you were quoting to support your pathetic 'information' claims THE SAME ONE WHO SAID

(From Evolution of Biological Information)


The results, which show the successful simulation of binding site evolution, can be used to address both scientific and pedagogical issues. Rsequence approaches and remains around Rfrequency(Fig. 2b), supporting the hypothesis that the information content at binding sites will evolve to be close to the information needed to locate those binding sites in the genome, as observed in natural systems [4,6]. That is, one can measure information in genetic systems, the amount observed can be predicted, and the amount measured evolves to the amount predicted. This is useful because when this prediction is not met [4,28,29,6] the anomaly implies the existence of new biological phenomena. Simulations to model such anomalies have not been attempted yet.

Variations of the program could be used to investigate how population size, genome length, number of sites, size of recognition regions, mutation rate, selective pressure, overlapping sites and other factors affect the evolution. Another use of the program may include understanding the sources and effects of skewed genomic composition [4,7,30,31]. However, this could be caused by mutation rates, and/or it could be the result of some kind(s) of evolutionary pressure that we don't understand, so how one implements the skew may well affect or bias the results.

The ev model quantitatively addresses the question of how life gains information, a valid issue recently raised by creationists [32] (Truman, R. (1999), but only qualitatively addressed by biologists [33]. The mathematical form of uncertainty and entropy ( , ) implies that neither can be negative (), but a decrease in uncertainty or entropy can correspond to information gain, as measured here by Rsequenceand Rfrequency. The ev model shows explicitly how this information gain comes about from mutation and selection, without any other external influence, thereby completely answering the creationists.

The ev model can also be used to succinctly address two other creationist arguments. First, the recognizer gene and its binding sites co-evolve, so they become dependent on each other and destructive mutations in either immediately lead to elimination of the organism. This situation fits Behe's [34] definition of `irreducible complexity' exactly (``a single system composed of several well-matched, interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, wherein the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning'', page 39), yet the molecular evolution of this `Roman arch' is straightforward and rapid, in direct contradiction to his thesis. Second, the probability of finding 16 sites averaging 4 bits each in random sequences is yet the sites evolved from random sequences in only 103 generations, at an average rate of 1 bit per 11 generations. Because the mutation rate of HIV is only 10 times slower, it could evolve a 4 bit site in 100 generations, about 9 months [35], but it could be much faster because the enormous titer (1010 new virions/day/person [17]) provides a larger pool for successful changes. Likewise, at this rate, roughly an entire human genome of  bits (assuming an average of 1 bit/base, which is clearly an overestimate) could evolve in a billion years, even without the advantages of large environmentally diverse worldwide populations, sexual recombination and interspecies genetic transfer. However, since this rate is unlikely to be maintained for eukaryotes, these factors are undoubtedly important in accounting for human evolution. So, contrary to probabilistic arguments by Spetner [36,32], the ev program also clearly demonstrates that biological information, measured in the strict Shannon sense, can rapidly appear in genetic control systems subjected to replication, mutation and selection [33].


(Emphasis mine)

While you you suck that down take a look at this
pay particular attention to the pretty pictures

Information Content, Compressibility and Meaning

Date: 2006/10/28 08:58:27, Link
Author: k.e
Is it just me, or does anybody else get the idea that AFDave is purposely obfuscating this issue?

NO he seriously JUST DOES NOT GET IT.

He jumbles the colloquial meaning with the mathmatical meaning.

From here Information Content, Compressibility and Meaning

a quote by Mathematician Jim Crutchfield

"Information theory as written down by Shannon is not a theory of information content. It's a quantitative theory of information."

Davey is talking about  qualiative information which magically REMAINS qualiative when it enters a mathmatical formula (which of course only makes sense if it is quantitive information).

It's like saying "take 10 x Dreams of eggs and flour and make a pancake".

Date: 2006/10/28 09:11:53, Link
Author: k.e
I hope my students don't figure out that you can do science the easy way by reading about ID. They would be thrilled to have a shortcut.


You've heard about the post literate generation, the video literate generation, the ipod generation..well now we have the IDiot generation ....Dembski must be proud.

Date: 2006/10/28 09:48:08, Link
Author: k.e
Yeah ScaryFacts Dembski quote mined Schneider  for his  "No Free Lunch" its on his website.

Hey AFD forget about that degree in Molecular Biology you'd be tossed out in 5 minutes flat for quote mining.

I wonder if Schneider knows the professional frauds at AiG are doing the same.
k.e ... 2 things ...

RE: Data vs. Info ... Go look up the meaning of the word "if" and we'll talk later, K?

Take two tranquilizers and calm down about Tom Schneider ... you sound like I claimed he was a creationist or something ...

I'll take a look at this "ev model" thingy ... sounds interesting!

condescention AFD

..For 'tis the sport to have the (quote mining)engineer
Hoist with his own petar: and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines
And blow them at the moon: O, 'tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet.

Look up intellectual honesty.

Date: 2006/10/28 17:55:31, Link
Author: k.e
Total fraud AFD said:

gratuitous ad hominem to me about Tom Schneider ... you sound like I claimed he was a creationist or something ...


AFD THAT is EXACTLY what you did.

You used his model to attempt to prove that your PRIVATE definition of 'genetic information' supported your religious dogma aka creationism, which AS YOU KNOW is NOT TESTABLE.

And BY IMPLICATION that your definition of 'genetic information' was equivalent to Tom Schneider's one of the world leading figures in ...wait for it....genetic information and therefore credable.

Tom Schneider however uses his SCIENTIFIC and therefore TESTABLE definition of 'genetic information' THE REAL ONE NOT THE AiG/AFD FAKE to model long term rates of change in the genome WHICH CAN BE USED TO MAKE PREDICTIONS. You know science

If I was Tom Schneider I would sue AiG's ass for defamation.


I'll take a look at this "ev model" thingy ... sounds interesting!

Why not read his whole paper THE ONE WHERE HE MENTIONS EVOLUTION over billions of years?

It would be a first for you AFD, to actually read some REAL SCIENCE to see how it is done rather than the fraudulent AiG.

It seems the genetic information thing is a honey pot for creationists like Behe and Dembski where their Orwellian minds find just enough ambiguity to shovel their lies.

AFD As far as


I'll take a look at this "ev model" thingy ... sounds interesting!

Why? You have already proven your MO which like Dembski is not to examine the facts but just to parasitically extract enough credibility from their host scientist to make themselves look good.

AFD YOU ARE the definitive last word in LSoS.

Date: 2006/10/28 20:20:26, Link
Author: k.e
Lies, D@mn lies, and quote mining

AFD for your edification

Definitions of Quote mining on the Web:

Quote mining is the practice of compiling quotes from large volumes of literature or spoken word. The term is used derogatorily to accuse the "quote miner" of cherry picking and misquotation, where favorable positions are amplified or falsely suggested, and unfavorable positions in the same text are excluded or otherwise obscured.

Date: 2006/10/29 01:12:28, Link
Author: k.e
Creationist makes error... admits to quote mining;
last seen hurriedly backpedaling  to cover using a logical fallacy..yes folks the old tried and trusted ad hominem. AFD keep your eye on the ball.

CREATIONIST (AFD) QUOTE MINES TOM SCHNEIDER  = Thus  falsely suggesting the famous  research scientist TOM SCHNEIDER one of worlds foremost authorities on information theory in biological systems IS using the scientific meaning of the quantative term 'information'  the same way CREATIONISTs do, which is a meaningless subjective or qualitative term almost identical in 'design' to Dembski's (and Behe's) alphabet soup of various catch all unmeasurable jargon

Weasel (that by the way is an insult, not an ad hominem)

Date: 2006/10/29 01:22:46, Link
Author: k.e
Back to bu$ine$$?

Sure g$d is the transmitter?

That is a testable scientific hypothesis.

When did g$d make the first transmission?

Provide a method of testing, what would falsify it, and what the data in the transmission is composed of.

You know  something along the lines of

'I expect 10 bushels of fairies, per millenium, per furlong'

Date: 2006/10/29 03:47:54, Link
Author: k.e
Bravo Russell:
the Transmitter = the genome
the Message = the genome
the Communication Channel = the genome
the Receiver = the genome

Look ma no g$d.

And for a bonus point AFD the CHANNEL noise or uncertainty  is?

Date: 2006/10/29 14:15:02, Link
Author: k.e
At Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Snoop Dogg figures in sermons, housewives cradle babies in tattooed arms -- and religious fundamentalism rules. Meet the Disciple Generation, the fierce new face of American evangelism.

By Lauren Sandler


Date: 2006/10/29 15:54:18, Link
Author: k.e
AFD keep digging.

Genetic information is a metric, a material measure and has the same properties as digital data(Shannon information).

The formulae a phone company uses to calculate transmission requirements for digital data (Shannon information) transmission are the same as the ones Dr. Schneider used to calculate errors in transmission of the genome (as digital data) during replication .

That use of the word information was clear to everyone here.

You as an EE who I presume has come across Shannon's Theory of Information should understand this.

You could be excused if you had never heard of Shannon's Theory of Information , IS THAT THE CASE?

You used Dr. Schneider's formulae for transmission of genetic information (i.e. the exact same context as phone company data information, cultural meaning free) to support your claims, ARE YOU NOW SAYING that you made an error in conflating the colloquial definition of information vs the material or scientific definition for information?

If Drew said "What has more meaning, white noise or speech?" then you would have a case.

This whole saga illustrates the  fundamental? problem AFD has with untangling a literal reading of Genesis.

For him Genesis IS FACT, his mind is utterly agape and completely unable to comprehend a figurative interpretation of what is Mythology.

Mythology is the world described by the language of dream, the subconscious desires and fears of the primordial mind of man expressed though story.

For AFD to even remotely consider the possibility that Genesis is not true would be to remove life's(g$ds) meaning and turn all facts into useless purely relativistic non entities...literally to 'lose ones mind'.

Astute observers will note that from the outside that appears to have already happened...strangely the Bible warns of that happening ..well there is so much in there some of it is bound to right. From somewhere in Exodus "Those who god wants to drive mad, he first causes them to loose ones mind/senses"

AFD do you realize you make the perfect guinea pig for studying the madness (literally senselessness) of all religious fundamentalism ?

Date: 2006/10/29 16:01:06, Link
Author: k.e
AFD squirms and hides under a rock.

My definition is Crick's definition (which is why in this context speech is more information rich than noise) ... And you are correct that I maintain that all biological information is degrading with time.

How convienient, then why did you mis quote QUOTEMINE Dr. Schneider?

Why don't you email Francis Crick and see if he agrees with you...snicker.

Date: 2006/10/29 16:08:00, Link
Author: k.e
Bah, quite correct Drew my apologies Eric.

Date: 2006/10/29 17:05:05, Link
Author: k.e
Great story Lenny , did the filth or the rozzers ever show up?

Date: 2006/10/29 18:01:46, Link
Author: k.e


AFD quotemines a ...wait for it ....quotemine.

He widens his search from the intellectually bankrupt AiG to .....that bastion of moral honesty behind the Dover dorks who Judge Jones said acted with "Breathtaking inanity".

Wow AFD you truly have outdone yourself this time.

Hey AFD....forget about the meaning of 'information', do you know what STUPID is.

Date: 2006/10/29 18:14:16, Link
Author: k.e
Bad news AFD

Your private crazy creationist definition of 'biological information' != Francis Cricks 'biological information'


Date: 2006/10/29 18:20:07, Link
Author: k.e
Does anyone know if D'OL is a YEC ?

Date: 2006/10/29 19:19:34, Link
Author: k.e
Now that all the information is in Davey, how old is the Earth again?

When did DNA first replicate?

How fast do the tectonic plates move?

How old are the deepest ice cores?

When was the last ice age?

How old are the cave paintings in southern France?

When are you going to sue the manufacturers of radiometric dating equipment for fraud when their equipment shows your YECism to be wrong?

Why does the Supreme Court of the United States say your YECism is a RELIGION and NOT SCIENCE?

Date: 2006/10/29 19:30:17, Link
Author: k.e
Quote of choice is a brick.

I blame Pink Floyd and postmodernism.

Clearly he thought that the idea of waving a brick was equal to studying history,biology,chemistry,physics and mathematics.

Steve Fuller would have been proud.

Date: 2006/10/29 20:01:25, Link
Author: k.e
More squirming Dave?
Schneider was invoked because I knew Eric's answer and I also discovered that Schneider had encountered a fair number of people who were reading Shannon and confusing "uncertainty" with "information."

The uncertainty or the transmission anolog 'channel noise' that Dr.Schneider refers to is NOT THE GENOME or DIGITAL DATA but its corruption during replication or transmission.

Eric was NOT talking about  "uncertainty" or 'channel noise' as any halfwit who can read and actually can spot the quotemined junk on AiG and other creationist sites (would see, if they bothered to check the sources AND took the trouble to understand the concepts addressed.)

-parenthetic comment added for clarity

Date: 2006/10/30 02:10:49, Link
Author: k.e

Frisbee has been weeded out.

So that would be un-natural selection? .....leaving an organism (UD) deliberatly designed.

So now as the result of UD's designers using the mechanism of certainty and zero chances, we have a total IQ of 34 (around about) at UD.

One could say that Orang UDan ascended from Orang Orang* and could probably peel a bananna but not drive a car,  the UD designer(s) made Orang UDan in his/their own image.

Is that what creo's call a throw back?

*Orang Orang means people in Indonesian.

Date: 2006/10/30 04:59:48, Link
Author: k.e
I don't understand the point of this thread. It's funny when fundies try to be <snicker> "hip"? Personally, I want my fundies to be above the cesspool of American pop culture (a culture irrelevant to the next generation, which will genuflect to new tinpot gods).

oooooh that was a bit too fundamental for me gap <snicker>

Date: 2006/10/30 05:59:07, Link
Author: k.e
I can't remember who said it, but "A gentleman need not know Latin, but he should at least have forgotten it.".


I knew I was a gentleman, wait 'till my wife hears ...hmmm maybe I should say it in latin :)
It does help with opera in Italian tho'

You only need 2 words

amour et morte

Date: 2006/10/30 06:48:07, Link
Author: k.e
Crikey Demski's really ticked David "the answer is 42" Heddle off.

So that ratbag Demski gets the credit after all our hard word.


In further hot news I've had the transcript of Demski's phone call to Harvard for a place on the team secretly sent to me.

It seems he was put on speaker phone when Summers took the call.
Summers: ....Ah Bill.... I'll get each team member to introduce themselves they already know it is you calling.

Op 1: Hi Bill it's Ivana Bukdeal here, Post Doc Toroidal Nano Biology we study the logical tautness of biological machines, we call it nano tautology ....we're REALLY interested in CSI. sh  sh

Bill: Fantastic.. Complex Specified (whatever)

Ivana: No ...Crime Scene Investigation

Bill: oh

Op2: Hi Bill it's Valter Mitzzy 'ere, 'ow do you do.

Bill: Valter?

Valter: yez Valter. I am ze head of fitting zee fruit fly heads on ze ants. Ve 'ave a saying here Time flys like an arrow, friut flys like a banana, I like bananas.

Summers: ..ah Bill ..sorry about that, that's Walter he cleans the test tubes, I'll pass you over to Steve Fuller

Bill:...THE Steve Fuller?

Steve: Yup.
Bill: I thought you were in England.
Steve: Was
Bill: ...Are you on the team?
Steve: No ...I'm writing a new book..A New Paradigm for Creation. Recontextualizing the epistemology for abiogenesis.
Bill: Hey I thought you were on our side.
Steve: All's fair in love and war Bill, that how postmodernism got started you know.... Hows your new book going?
Bill: You can buy it when it comes out.
Steve: What.... no invitation for a promo, no back cover blurb?
Bill: From traitor.

Date: 2006/10/30 07:00:06, Link
Author: k.e
Weren't they bred to hunt badgers or something?



we don't need no steenking badgers!!

Date: 2006/10/30 21:12:43, Link
Author: k.e
oh Davey

DATING: In the meaning improvius uses it, is a method based on observable evidence that correlates with ALL other VALID dating methods WITH ABSOLUTLY NO EXEPTIONS.

iow IF your proposition FAILS ANY of the tests it is NOT VALID and needs adjusting to EXPLAIN the discrepancy

EVIDENCE:If you are not sure what the meaning of evidence IS, google "The rules of evidence"

IS: If you do not know what IS is, I suggest the Oxford English Dictionary (the 14 volume edition) there should be one at your university library.

Date: 2006/10/31 02:33:38, Link
Author: k.e
Zachriel notes:
It's kinda of funny they make so much of a single article that merely mentions Dembski.

The writing style imitates Il Duce-ski's almost impenetrable nonsense, one wonders if he had a hand in it.

Date: 2006/10/31 05:29:35, Link
Author: k.e
Thank you AFD for pointing out my spelling errors.
I do actually run my longer posts through a spell checker to reduce that sort of pettiness, in future I will be more careful.

I assume you still got the message?

Do you have any incontrovertibly overwhelming evidence for your hypothesis?

How about ...just overwhelming evidence that on balance through different dating methods supports your hypothesis?

What about half a dozen independently verifiable objects?

Even just an invoice signed by Noah's chandler?

Date: 2006/10/31 06:24:57, Link
Author: k.e
There is none that contradicts it that I am aware of

Ignorance is bliss

... no one has brought any to me here that stands up under scrutiny ...

Ignorance is bliss

and there are mountains of confirmation of historical details in the Bible from archaeology

And NONE that support your Flud or your pigmy version of evolution.

Date: 2006/10/31 18:05:33, Link
Author: k.e
BWEE needs a fact checker?

Hey all he(BWE) needs to do, is watch AFD for week and mere facts are putty in his brain. Or should that his brain is mere putty with his pseudo facts?

Facts? ....Facts?....we don't need no steenkeeng Facts!

Assertion beats facts any day, say it enough times and assertion BECOMES fact, just look at GWB dissing Kerry on Kerry's failed 'stupid goes to Iraq' joke.

Half the people will believe you anyway.

Thats why (stupid) politicians like AFD just don't understand science.
1. They lack the least scintilla for logical analysis or are just intellectually dishonest.
2. Believe repeating the same lies over and over will advance their case.

They count their success in infected minds i.e. bodies, not weight of evidence.
They believe that rat cunning will outdo truth and beauty any day.

Date: 2006/11/01 03:14:28, Link
Author: k.e
Gee AFD you put some real work into your denial don't you?

Just as a matter of interest is there anything else you deny?

HIV causing Aids perhaps?

The Moon landings were faked?

I don't recall you denying the Holocaust, so is there anything else?

It's easy to see that your Religiuos Dogma aka Creationism has got you by the short and curlies there Davey have you considered deprogramming??

Google 'deprogramming cults'

Deprogramming gained notoriety back in the seventies through such figures as Ted Patrick, a short and stocky black man who set out to probe the underground world of religious cults in order to free young people who were caught up in the clutches of deceptive organizations. Formerly appointed as head of community relations for San Diego and Imperial counties in California by Governor Ronald Reagan, Patrick became concerned when his son Michael had a brush with a band of teenagers involved in an evangelistic group called the Children of God. Curious, Patrick sought them out, seeking to infiltrate their group just to see what they were all about. He discovered an intense indoctrination program designed to wear down the natural defenses of young people (and middle-aged ones like himself!;) through constant bombardment with propaganda, lack of sleep, and sensual stimulation coupled with reading Bible verses. Unexpectedly, Patrick himself began to feel he was losing grip on reality, as if he was drawn into a hypnotist's spell.

After escaping the group, Patrick began an investigation into religious cults that led him into a new kind of rescue work known as deprogramming. Known by cults as "black lightning" for his no-nonsense approach, he was seen as a savior by parents and their deprogrammed children, but as the devil incarnate by the Moonies, Children of God, Hare Krishnas, etc.

Deprogramming and Exit-Counseling:

Date: 2006/11/01 07:25:29, Link
Author: k.e
But according to your hypothesis, Davey, one pair of individuals gave birth to a thousand of species (except humans, for some reason). And a thousand of species represents thousands of alleles per locus.
Try again.

Good point jeannot.

This particular Cretin cretini actually accepts evolution after a post diluvian year zero, since it is just "common sense".

But to make the ToE fit into their tiny daycare backpacks, they wave their hands with 'super accelerated evolution on nitro for a certain amount of time' and "Mommy said so, so it must be true".

That 'Guinness advertisement' version of evolution means that the old 'cats giving birth to tigers'  canard is the only logical conclusion one could draw, noting of course AFD that that is WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING.

The added benefit?.....there are no missing links predicted by AFD....ah....except for the missing links found that support the ToE.

What did the Tigers eat on the ark AFD?

And please don't say vegitables.

Date: 2006/11/01 07:41:30, Link
Author: k.e
Bah just seen Eric's post along same lines and better stated to.

Maybe you should change subjects AFD?

You were severely hosed on the last topic remember?

...Where you lost the 'information' debate quite thoroughly after an excruciatingly drawn out skinning.

Yes, it is easier to skin you're argument before rigor mortice sets in and it grows cold , but when you insist on wriggling after every fatal blow one begins to question if the demons that posses you are just having a bit of fun...could we end this one soon?

Date: 2006/11/01 08:10:58, Link
Author: k.e
Noah did not need to take plants either—many could have survived as seeds, and others could have survived on floating mats of tangled vegetation, as seen today after severe storms.  Many insects and other invertebrates were small enough to have survived on these mats as well.  According to Genesis 7:22, the Flood wiped out all land animals that breathed through nostrils except those on the Ark.  Insects do not breathe through nostrils but through tiny tubes (tracheae) exiting through pores (spiracles) in their exterior skeleton (‘shell’).


keep 'em coming this is much funnier than AFD's

Date: 2006/11/02 03:48:45, Link
Author: k.e
Shock horror AFD, are you saying a retired Horticulturist (plant breeder) and ID proponent converts to strange religious cult...or was he one all the what?

Sanford was in the Cornell Agriculture School, as a Associate Professor of Horticulture. He never was fully promoted, and he was never in biology. He does still have a courtesy appointment in horticulture, and he does have some significant patents in biotechnology.

From what little I've read of his book, it appears to be nonsense.

From:Gerard Harbison atRight Wing Professor's Blog

Date: 2006/11/02 04:02:04, Link
Author: k.e
Wow carlsonjok when I said strange ......I didn't meant THAT STRANGE <snicker>

Date: 2006/11/02 04:42:17, Link
Author: k.e
A secretly installed super sneaky video camera installed near AFD's desk, reveals him pushing Dr. John Sanford's book under his latest copy of  Spires and Vestibules a weekly review of church architecture and nonchalantly glancing out his window and whistling while twiddling his thumbs.

Date: 2006/11/03 01:50:41, Link
Author: k.e
While I don't condone needless harming of innocent beasts, I will make the exception here.

GoP get out your inflateable sheep sick her under your arm...put on some lippy, high heels and your best summer frock and head off to Vegas...get out and live..find yourself a nice wrestler...heck a whole tag team of them and GET IT ON.

Go boy! You know you want to...chicken.

Date: 2006/11/03 18:51:51, Link
Author: k.e
Ra-Úl said:


I usually like your style and your taste in literature, but must you encourage GoPppy to come to my town? What have I done to you to deserve this sort of tratment? Ask him to go to another cesspool of sin and degradation. We get our supply of weird from advertising in some of the finest publications and more reputable TV sleazefests.

oh ....sorry Ra-Úl, but just think you could insult him in 4 different languages. BTW thanks to you I found the when you pointed out deadmans naughty mexican. Boy do they know how to swear!!

Date: 2006/11/04 02:41:45, Link
Author: k.e
How do you come up with 10 extra alleles in 450 years from that database that Mike linked to?  Are you taking 100 alleles for 4500 years and dividing by 10?

What happened AFD, lose the script?

Hey maybe if you come up with an original idea for evolution on crystal meth, AiG will let you in for free (or let you out for free).

Just think of that. You could apply the same brilliant idea to tectonics ...continents on ball bearings and a slope.

Call it "the skateboard theory of tectonics" g$d just hitched up his Bisht hopped on each continent and pushed off with the other foot.

You even have proof ....look at Italy .....don't tell me that isn't one of gods boots.

Fame and glory await you Davey ..expect a call from that peak scientific prize organization...The Darwin Awards.....whose motto is

We salute the improvement of the human genome
by honoring those who remove themselves from it.
Of necessity, this honor is generally bestowed posthumously.  
November 2006
"The Tree of Life is Self-Pruning."

Date: 2006/11/04 03:01:18, Link
Author: k.e

Don’t get lost in PZ’s rhetorical house of mirrors...

Hey I  think I've been to a rhetorical house of mirrors..back in the '70's.

You went in through a window, lay around on big cushions and imbibed the most sublime Black Afghani hash and saw yourself rhetorically asking the stupidest ...."man did you just see that mirror on the wall, I can see right through it" er that's a window "yeah man ....I wuz just testing"

The only way for kids today to get there join the Army.

Date: 2006/11/04 05:15:06, Link
Author: k.e
Salome (Bring me the head of WAD) said:
I say, let's not wait around for them to think of one. Let's feed them one. Then we can control their PR campaign and, at the appointed time (everyone synchronize your watches), deflate it by remote control.

The Inflateable Designer ?

The proportion of inflation is measureable and in direct proportion to WAD's ego.

Date: 2006/11/04 05:25:31, Link
Author: k.e
Remember that interview of that fine upstanding Rev. 'I Only Bought Meth... And A Massage' Haggard by Dawkins?

Just a reminder for those who haven't seen it

Date: 2006/11/04 05:43:07, Link
Author: k.e
LOL looks the the flying spaghetti monsters  
are coming home to roost

(WAD)You’re better than Dawkins at making atheists.

Date: 2006/11/05 04:24:14, Link
Author: k.e
Skeptic call me cynical but have you ever experienced anything, besides sitting in front of a TV?
You seem to have no idea what Ichthyic and BWE are talking about, either that .....or some missing kangaroos in your top paddock.

You said:
On a side note, which is more arrogant: the belief that the world and everything in it can be described using human language and concepts or that there is much out there we do not know nor understand and to presume too much places us on the thin ice of assumption.  Again, it comes down to a philosophical question.

Ah yes..... begging the question, the great unknown which some sort of  anthropomorphic g$d can be ascribed as having the 'intelligence' to know. (something I have always found to be highly amusing if you must know, it's just a seed planted in young minds, which gets mindlessly repeated)

Why is  your statement 'there is much out there we do not know nor understand and to presume too much places us on the thin ice of assumption' a self referential form of question begging i.e. circular reasoning?

Well..... instead of giving a direct answer, consider what knowledge is.

It is the product of human reason and ultimately will, in the future answer questions you could never dream of  and currently provides light on subjects our dead ancestors would have been incapable of imagining.

You appear to be making the assumption that because we don't know 'some unknown unknown' we can rightly conclude that human language  correctly conveys concepts which arrogantly firmly assert  the existence  of deities as though they are fact.

Well that particular  all powerful deity has already revealed the great unknown is unknowable (snicker) to his believers through the Mythologies in the Bible.

And of course ' being revealed to' is a purely human function, propaganda is almost second nature for skin collectors, no outside assistance needed.

Date: 2006/11/05 15:26:39, Link
Author: k.e
Skeptic looks at himself in a mirror ....but just to make sure looks behind it.

Taking your example, let's examine the nature of knowledge with is based upon human reason and accept that it is purely human knowledge.  Beyond that constraint it may have no real explanatory power which is something we I may never know unless we were I was to encounter other beings with comparable levels of communication.


When you encounter your 'other beings with comparable levels of communication' don't be too surprised if they seem a little dull

I hope that does not need further explanation.

Let me know when anything other than human knowledge is considered 'human knowledge', I always thought it was the opposite to (human) ignorance.

Date: 2006/11/05 16:48:45, Link
Author: k.e
Couldn't adaptations for swimming have come about from occasional swimming, without needing the near continuous swimming implied by the aquatic ape theory?


Hehe.... would a creo answer for the AAT be "Then why do we still have boats?"

The following comments are completely without any intended sarcasm so bare with me and dip a toe.

Do we actually have any adaptations for swimming?
Offspring that can't fend for themselves for say the first 12 years ,may not be giving the beginnings of culture, tool making (millions of years old) and language, enough credit
Most mammals seem to be able to swim if the need arises. Maybe being able to swim is just a happy accident, a consequence of having our noses in the right place...maybe.
Besides...never underestimate the power of the naked form in water for both males and females.
Even in mythology, the girl by the well is a repeating meme, as is water itself which symbolically represents the feminine, so I think water played an important role in  why we are the way we are without resorting to half evolving into dolphins a comparison of time lines may give the  best answers.

We do have one unique ability that other animals don't and that is our ability to control water and the diverse environments  we can range to. The Australian aboriginal was able to move across vast desert hunting grounds all by cultural control of water passed down through story telling (dream time myth) that laid out the landscape as a 'story map'. Water was available in  springs that had to be dug up or trapped in rock wells and accessed with a string and bark bucket made from materials close to hand.
Anyway just a thought.

Date: 2006/11/06 03:51:40, Link
Author: k.e
When I was in gradeschool, they taught me that I could get free kool aid if I went to see some wild eyed old bible bashers show cartoons about some thing called a flud and some guy named Noah.

I grew up in on a farm and even I could see the whole idea was just laughable.

Why weren't there any worms on the arc?
Because worms come in apples not in pairs

er AFD have you ever been to a zoo?

You truly need to get a reality check.

Go and ask your local zoo keeper how he would fit a pair of each of his animals plus a few dinosaurs (snicker) onto a 50 foot boat and keep them fed for 40 days with 3 helpers.

Date: 2006/11/06 05:55:41, Link
Author: k.e
Holy crap AFD you are doing a 'Saddam Hussein' here
'I shot those random red dots on that chart but the chart was proof against my great rule and it deserved it Allah Akbar'

Also, you are showing your lack of understanding of "experimenter selectivity" by bashing my "red dot" chart.

What do you call that, visual lying?

Is that anything like quote mining?

Let me fix this next statement for you AFD

You totally missed the point of all the information RANDOM NONSENSE I gave regarding Isochron Diagrams.  

It apparently is good enough for you me--a non-expert in RM dating methods--to blindly accept all RM Dating biblical fairy tales in spite of the fact that you were I was-- shown how  RM Dating is biblical fairy tales are  "calibrated" by the use of fossils the bible.  

Why would you I blindly accept this?  

All I you can conclude is that you I WANT ToE the bible to be true and that you NEED RM "Dating" I need the the flud to be true to support your my ideas.

Date: 2006/11/06 17:59:10, Link
Author: k.e
More projected BS from AFD:

Most of you are too lazy to even do it.  All you want to do is sit on the sidelines and mindlessly throw rotten eggs.  At least Mike, Deadman and Jon Fleming are not lazy.  They have at least engaged me and gone to some effort to try to support their view.  Unsuccessfully Brilliantly, I might add, but at least they tried hard.

Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.
Plato (427 BC - 347 BC)

Date: 2006/11/07 08:22:11, Link
Author: k.e
Besides, some of you out there who share my ideas about origins certainly believe snakes once had legs!

And of course they were able to speak. <snicker>

Date: 2006/11/07 08:28:00, Link
Author: k.e
Hey lying AFD are you going to beg for forgiveness for your lies.

Your co-religionists seem to be making a fashion out of it lately.

Are we going to be treated to some begging letters, knealing and gnashing of teeth?

Lies by lying liars.

Date: 2006/11/07 22:32:30, Link
Author: k.e
Good grief AFD you're galloping  drunkenly slouching from one windmill to another on that tired old creationist nag of yours.

What with you're forgotten tales of Knights battling Moors in Lisbon to your refusal to look through a telescope for fear of shattering the music of the spheres you demonstrate the fools journey never ends.

You are living proof that your religious institution is a testament to human folly and regards sanity as a danger.

Date: 2006/11/07 22:51:41, Link
Author: k.e
These people think they are going to overturn the reigning paradigm in biological science,.

Is there a book running on when #### will freeze over?

I think a betting man would favor that over raining parrots (on blogo-logical seances)

(edited for rythmic continuity)

but almost without exception they betray a profound ignorance of even the most basic principles of evolutionary biology

Just evolutionary biology?

Oh come now .....they are far too modest, don't they make Sisyphean faux pas on practically all of science.

It would be interesting to see if any ID claim made is actually concordant with any science.

Date: 2006/11/08 01:33:36, Link
Author: k.e
I suggest "Big endian and little endian" Swiftly.

Date: 2006/11/08 01:53:00, Link
Author: k.e
Nothing in Intelligent Design Makes Sense Except in the Darkness of Tard

So is that religion masquerading as Tard
or Tard masquerading science?

Of course it could be math ...take the square root of the sum of the squares of 2 tards and you have the length in demskis of the sycophant. Rotate it in infinite time and you have the frequency of his zero energy he rides off into the sunset.

Date: 2006/11/08 07:46:11, Link
Author: k.e
Crabby Appleton asked:
k.e. clarify, are you big endian or lil' endian?

I have to confess no deviancy on the egg opening front
although I did experiment once, I can't remember why, it might have been while I was going out with a girl who was a 'spiritualist' in the Madame Blavatsky mold. The daughter of a Irish shipyard worker from Glasgow who enjoyed brief fame in post war Paris as a jazz trumpeter of some note , according to him at least. She held regular seances with a medium to contact her long dead mother cruelly taken by thrombosis induced by a long plane flight. The seances were always successful provided  coin of realm was given in exchange. Anyway she went off to hug trees, it was never going to work out. She was definitely 'little endian', delicious for a while but any sharing of eggs in future was doomed to failure due to our polar oppositeness and my 'Houdini' attitude to her 'Great Bear Indian' or some such, on the 'other side'. Ever since I have been careful to observe any possible partners for endian compatibility and will quiz them on their contact with ghosts, djins and other apparitions. Of course I make allowances for the fact that women are completely unfathomable anyway so which end they open their eggs, I take with a grain of salt.

Date: 2006/11/08 09:22:44, Link
Author: k.e
don_quixote salutes-

I admire the patience of Mike, Deadman and Jon Fleming.

You guys deserve a medal!

Hey what about me?

No medal for  mudflinging lazily and  throwing rotten eggs desultorily ?

Let me tell you the effort required to unpick the mindless ad nausium quote mining, mangling , whistling in the dark, denial, egotistical misinformation from AFD is not trivial even though the consequences are.

Date: 2006/11/08 19:57:04, Link
Author: k.e
Arden notes-

Quote (deadman_932 @ Nov. 08 2006,13:04)

Little DaveScotard has been making drive-bys at Kristine's place :  

Hmmm. I think Dave's just in a bad mood because the GOP got skunked last night.


Whats that sound?

A parrot Jim .....shifting.

Also known as the sound of 'one whining dembski-ite spanking'

snicker.....I declare this glorious day a victory for Charles Darwin....and the greatest victory ever since 300 Spartans stopped Xerxes  and the entire Persian army at the Battle of Thermopylae .........raises glass. (look ....if Duckski and Wells can hyperbolically declare 'Darwinism' dead then its open season on hyperbole)

Date: 2006/11/08 21:36:32, Link
Author: k.e
Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Nov. 08 2006,14:04)

Humorously, he's still using that avatar to this day. In a way he still is carrying around a mark of his idiocy.

Despite it's color, I think we should call it "The Scarlet Headgear".


Little red DT:oooohhhhh grandma WHAT a BIG NOSE you have...

Wolfy: (in falsetto) wanna kiss it little girl

Little red DT:oooohhhhh grandma WHAT a DEEP VOICE you have...

Wolfy: (in falsetto) coff hrmmm ...really?... go on kiss the dolly

Little red DT:oooohhhhh grandma WHAT a HAIRY DOLLY you have...

Wolfy: (in falsetto) coff hrmmm ...really?... don't stop don't stop

Date: 2006/11/09 01:54:25, Link
Author: k.e
Looks like AFD's slinked off to commiserate with all those other fine upstanding evampire-istas, how does that crow taste AFD?

Date: 2006/11/09 06:46:58, Link
Author: k.e
Hi ho AFDavO ......giddy up!

Date: 2006/11/09 09:46:50, Link
Author: k.e
Ahhhh did not have sexual relations with that neandertal , yes I know you have the pictures but I was in Brazil at the time I swear, honest, and as for the magic mushrooms go I threw them out....didn't touch them.....closes window and drives off from media pack<snicker>

Date: 2006/11/09 11:47:44, Link
Author: k.e
hehehehe thanks

I feel better now.

Date: 2006/11/09 20:17:11, Link
Author: k.e
Another Freudian slip by Anti-Fact Dreamer


That Dave Tard^^2 is circular reasoning, whistling in the dark, wishful thinking, dreaming, pissing against the wind and a failure of logic that completely explodes any thruth in other words Creationism is a lie.

Your mere assertions are are less than worthless.

But just to check .......give NASA a call and check the date of birth of the present universe.

Date: 2006/11/09 20:49:12, Link
Author: k.e
And now a Hymn for church lady DOLar
-to do it karaoke style ...the electric piono backing is here

A Him to Demise (of ID)

Blowing in the morning, blowing seeds of blindness,
Blowing in the blogsphere and the dingbats ear;
Waiting for the print run, and the time of reaping,
We shall come rejoicing, ringing on your memes.


Ringing on your memes, ringing on your memes,
We shall come rejoicing, ringing on your memes,
Ringing on your memes, ringing on your memes,
We shall come rejoicing, ringing on your memes,

Blowing on the blog, blowing on the bog,
Fearing neither facts nor peer reviewers wheeze;
By and by the royalties, and the typing ended,
We shall come rejoicing, ringing on your memes.


Going forth with heaps of, blowing for the Master,(of WAD)
Though the loss sustained our spirit often grieves (a lot);
When our weeping’s over, He will bid us welcome, (on ebay)
We shall come rejoicing, ringing on your memes.


Date: 2006/11/09 21:42:50, Link
Author: k.e
Crikey AFD if you keep this up I'm actually going to learn something about alleles, against my wishes

Do you actually want that?

Mike who I'm pretty sure already said he was no expert in the field, just a bright guy who can actually read for understanding is showing you a clean pair of heels there Davey Boy.

Now that after you spectacularly flunked the 'Information Theory' part of this on going saga of Creationist Stupidity (Intelligent design...indeed)

I have not had a great deal of faith in your ability to pin a tail on anything resembling a target.

You are showing a consistent failure here AFD, your poor comprehension and lack of even the most basic raw ability in every subject you have addressed so far is not the mark of what most people would call 'intelligent'
that is: the ability to grasp and understand abstract concepts quickly. I'll bet you just scraped through your degree.

So I ask this question:
Is making a fool of yourself in public a secret desire for recognition?
Are you a suppressed clown Davey?
Are you gunning to be more ironic than say Jerry Seinfeld?

Me? Why would I need to fill my head with a fact that is useless to me? Or you for that matter?

It would take only a single proof for your g$d to convince me of its existance and it has never happened and I'll take any bet you like that it will never happen.

A reverse Pascal's Wager

You see AFD my g$d is the same as you g$d identical in fact.

My g$d is made in my own image and rewards skepticism and punishes blind faith, or rewards honest reasoning and punishes feigned faith, or does not punish belief or disbelief at all.

IN FACT AFD my g$d is an atheist, that's right AFD he doesn't believe he exists!!!

There is no heaven and ####, they are just states of mind in the here and now ......that is what Jesus meant by the Kingdom of God.

Your g$d only exists because you believe he exists. What if you stopped believing in him? Would the world not exist?

Date: 2006/11/09 22:51:50, Link
Author: k.e
This from a guy who thinks his ancestor is a chimp ... and further back than that ... pond scum!!  And he's serious!!

Or one who thinks that dirt magically sprung into a 15 year old boy without a navel who could talk .

AFD go into ANY major museum around the world and you will find human artifacts that are over 20,000 years old.

Last month I saw some bronze cooking pots from China that were 5500 years old.

Oh and guess what AFD NOT one single museum has any crappy creationist toy arks or other genesis stuff, except crappy creationist amusement halls with modern fakes.

Date: 2006/11/10 06:14:47, Link
Author: k.e


Drew... Quote  
Please AFDave, do not even go there. Your objections to the whitenoise argument were refuted by many on this board including myself. Along with that, your citations of Dr. Schneider were shown to be out of context and incorrect not only by those of us on the board but also Dr. Schneider himself.

No. YOU and Eric were soundly refuted. Dr. Schneider did not understand the context of the debate and I made it quite clear that I agreed with his response.  The only thing I didn't agree with was YOUR statement that "white noise has more information content that a speech" when stated in the context of a discussion about biological information which I clearly defined

By who?

You? In your infantile dreams g$d boy.

Is that a crystal meth and lying c*cks*cker moment for you AFD?

ARE YOU  STILL TRYING TO EQUATE YOUR CRAZY CREATIONIST "biological information " with Dr. Schneider's measurements of mutation rates of the genome when it is treated as information (the real one not the Falwell, Haggard, Bush version)?

YOU WILL NOTE "white noise has more information content that a speech" refered to the quantative size of a digital recording AS DATA INFORMATION not the coloquial NON SCIENTIFIC use of the word as 'meaning something to a human'.

And context? What friggin context is that?

The context of baldfaced lying in public?

Seems to be a lot of it about lately don't you think AFD?

AFD you were sprung and when you found out that Eric contacted Dr. Schneider you squirmed and changed 'the context' so it looked you were not lying. you have a blue dress?

Date: 2006/11/10 06:29:22, Link
Author: k.e
It's going to be a long night in the graveyard.

Walking dead AFD repeats again and again the vampires curse.

I'm glad to hear you agree with Dr Schnieder's statements on information.
I'm pretty sure he wouldn't give a rats ass what you think particularly if he had the misfortune to read a few of your posts.

You originally quote mined his paper to support your farcical definition of "biological information" which as far as I can tell seems to preclude the human genome from arising by RANDOM mutations over 3.5 billion years...when .....wait for it...... Dr Schnieder CLEARLY SHOWS that it can!!!

Date: 2006/11/10 06:36:00, Link
Author: k.e
Who invoked Shannons theory AFD?

And what other theory besides Shannon's was being used?

Date: 2006/11/10 07:54:52, Link
Author: k.e
AFD the Creationist energizer bunny.

Who make great cultural and scientific learnings for American people and drinks unfermented coolaid.

AFD we read to understand you read and don't understand

Date: 2006/11/10 21:29:06, Link
Author: k.e
That Vostok Ice Core Data
is an awesome link deadman.

AFD get out your quill and pen a letter to your local congressman and get him to pass a law saying the government MUST NOT SAY THE EARTH IS MORE THAN 6000 years old.

Heck I'll do it for you, give me his name and address.

Those dirty rotten scientists at NASA JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK about AiG......AFD get on the phone to the boss and GET THAT FIXED NOW.


Contact those useless bastards working on the VOSTOK ice cores and FIX THOSE DATES.

Isotopes of Hydrogen and Oxygen have been used to develop Earth temperature histories
extending over 400,000 years.

WTF AFD ? How can that be ?

It was raining 394,000 years before g$d turned dust into a boy? And a bone into woman who LISTENED TO A TALKING SNAKE?

Send them one of those highly successful fliers you handed out to your buddies in the Air Force, you know the ones they used to wipe their ass.

Date: 2006/11/10 21:40:39, Link
Author: k.e
Sorry AFD that letter shouldn't go to NASA it should go to



Date: 2006/11/10 23:05:12, Link
Author: k.e

Why not, Harry Potter does.


ARE YOU comparing a childrens literary reference to Genesis?

Mythos vs Myth.

SURELY you don't expect me to take that seriously!!

...oh right.

//end of sarcasm ......and sorry for calling you Shirley.

Actually girls and snakes have  erotic overtones in ancient Mythology. Joeseph Campbell alludes to it in one of his talks I haven't been able to find any in depth analysis on the Genesis context though.

Not sure about boys and snakes apart from the obvious but then Rowlings? is a female.

'xcuse me while I syphon the python.

Date: 2006/11/10 23:15:49, Link
Author: k.e
Or, to put it in a way a journalist/literature critic might be able to understand, ID currently stands in relationship to science where literary criticism stands in relationship to literature.

How dare he criticise their criticism, disparage their disparagement, wedge their wedge. (snicker)

Date: 2006/11/11 07:27:43, Link
Author: k.e
Geez Davey C4T got your tongue?

Only 10 fairy tale believers writing anti evolution stuff?

Seems like a nice round number what are their credentials?

Oh BTW if they are affiliated with AiG or any other creationist outfit then their credentials are no better than Ted Haggard   and all the other lying loonies in that outdoor asylum for adult misfits.

So let me get this straight ...they all believe the mud to man in a minute fraction of a second?

Got any calibrated data to support that?  could use C14 6000 years old the reliability is almost 100%

You just get the grid reference for the GoE (Garden of Eden) from your factual history of the world (Encyclopedia Sumeria) and pick up some mud near the tree with the talking snake and stick it in your mass spectrometer and Adam's your uncle.

Date: 2006/11/11 08:07:59, Link
Author: k.e
ooops AFD another foot in mouth moment what you meant to say was this

Varves ... dendrochronology "calibration" Bible genealogy and people living to 900 years.... wishful thinking and common stupidity...  ... please!  Spear me.  WE Evangelicals have no shame!

Date: 2006/11/12 00:04:30, Link
Author: k.e
Hey AFD there are no problems for you to show DM the excess CO2 you pulled OUT OF YOUR ASS can just go look at those ice cores and look for the HUGE PEAKS OF CO2 you know......the ones that go back 400,000 years

Do you know how many days that is AFD?

....around 150,000,000 days before your g$d turned dust into Adam-stein ....IGOR pass the dirt....
BWhahahahahaha zzzzt bzzzzzz wheeeee zzt zzzt clank rrrriiiipppp   urp clunk

g$d: Look Igor ..look I have created a man.
Igor: yeah right boss ...looks like a sand castle to me.
g$d: shut up and plug him in
I: 'k ...just stand back


g$d:what's that smell?
I:..smells like burning pork.
g$d: look it moves..quick pull the plug.
I:ask it a question
g$d: can
Adamstein: urrrrrg
g$d: what would you like?
Adamstein: ARRRRRRGH....get me a cold beer and a woman.
g$d:F*CK that all you guys think about?
I: Way to go Adamstein .....the pub closes in an hour get dressed and lets boogey.
Adamstein:..hey g$d got some spare cash?
g$d:I'll use my Armenian Express card .

Date: 2006/11/12 00:53:03, Link
Author: k.e
But I have to admit, it's pretty entertaining watching him stumble around.

Yeah like Wyle E. Coyote  he gets his 'Acme C14 cyantist trap (pat. pending) from AiG'

...sets it up in the middle of the road and then hides behind a rock.

beep beep......rrrrrrrrm sniff snifff (nothing happens) beep beep......rrrrrrrrm.

AFD wearing his creationist Wyle E. Coyote getup in sheeps clothing checks trap .....kabooooooooom!

Date: 2006/11/12 03:35:49, Link
Author: k.e
This  research project may be going through the peer review process as we speak, and be published to great acclaim. Then you'll be laughing on the other side of your face, my lad.


Retired Marine Admiral, Fungi Grower, Man about Marina and Gentleman Un-professional Engineer D.S. Springer,  took time off from his job as gatehouse attendant at UD to sneak behind the girls shower block and peek in at Janiebelle and Corp. Kate having a lark.

He quickly took off when everyone sitting at the bar pulled up the curtain and cheered.

Now he is performing mouth to mouth with his favorite carburettor.

Date: 2006/11/12 22:29:52, Link
Author: k.e

Maybe intelligence can emerge from that unknown stuff just like it arised in us from the kind of matter we know about. Or maybe our intelligence actually comes from a source that isn’t ordinary matter & energy. A popular hypothesis on the nature of intelligence is that our brains act sort of like radios and serve to merely channel intelligence and self-awareness that comes from a source that isn’t made of the matter and energy we know about today.

SO THAT'S WHY the Republicards lost!!

The freakin transmitter went on the blink.

Deep in the heart of their secret PTB bunker a few mosfets overheated and scrambled the message.

Karl Rove's gloved hand went straight to his own throat and choked him.

Davetard lost all his IQ and now he is blabbering, meanwhile people are crossing to the other side of the street.

.....with apologies to the Bard

A Scene in a churchyard



Alas, poor Davetard! I knew him, AtBC: an IDist
of infinite nonsense, of most excellent fallacy: he hath
cracked me up a thousand times; and now, how
abhorred in my imagination it is! my eyes tear up at
it. Here hung those words that I have read I know
not how oft. Where be your gibes now? your
gambols? your songs? your flashes of merriment,
that were wont to set the table on a roar? Not one
now, to mock your own grinning? quite chap-fallen?
Now get thee to thy Republicans chamber, and tell her,
let her paint her dead face an inch thick, to this new congress she must come; make her laugh at that.

Date: 2006/11/13 07:04:18, Link
Author: k.e
Jesus on a stick, my irony-meter just went into orbit, from this post by DaveScot:  
I suspect much of technology today still seems supernatural to evolutionary biologists. After all, you can beat them over the head with explanations of digital program controlled factory automation and how cellular machinery operate on the exact same principles and how these things can’t possibly poof themselves into existence without intelligence involved, and they still just don’t get it. They have no concept whatsoever how their cars and computers are made, they just barely know how to operate them.

Arthur C. Clarke famously said “Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear as magic.”

“Abra cadabra! Your new Prius is ready for you sir. This week we’re giving away free laptop computers with all new cars. Let me get yours for you. Alakazam! Here is it sir. Enjoy it with our compliments. If anything goes wrong in the first year please return it and we’ll hocus pocus a replacement for you!”
That would be in contrast to bacterial flagella, which are most definitely not poofed into existence or touched in any way by the hocus-pocus...

DT has definetly lost it..... but he does display the inner machinations of the IDist's mind.

The breathtaking inanity; the jaw dropping superficiality; the Freudian slip par excellence ; Quel naiviety !

Does DT have kids....did he ever have sex?

Hey DT you complete tosser when are you going to set up that laptop farm ?....seriously......get a few breeders let them  start humping and producing little PDA's.

//end irony

Here is someone who did not confuse and conflate imagination with creation.

Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire, you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)

And just in case you didn't get that your Tardiness:
Your mind has created a complete non sequitur (translated for the short bus--a statement containing an illogical conclusion) an infantile projection. Your creator is a reflection of a pathetic mind.

Date: 2006/11/13 07:20:03, Link
Author: k.e
For some reason you {IDist's} accept this state-of-affairs. Think hard.

Zachriel I would have thought that that was an oxymoron. Their mask of false hospitality and politeness  eventually drops to reveal  their true nature.
The dictators have no cothes.

Date: 2006/11/13 08:40:52, Link
Author: k.e
AFD Please spare me the nonsense about that's GRISDA you are quoting a source that babbles on about a flud for which there is NO EVIDENCE.


* Please spare me the nonsense about "Oh that's GRISDA you are quoting

Seriously AFD you really are now talking out of your arse.

Get this fixed AFD

Date: 2006/11/13 10:22:09, Link
Author: k.e
Did anyone notice how that crappy C&P of orgainic carbon inventory data inserted into flood apologetics.

puts scare quotes around fossil.

A dead give away AFD.....real "truthy".

Proof AFD?

Go back and read the whole tract it's utter hogwash they do not offer a proof it is just an empty assertion.

They offer no refutation of ice cores, oil well cores, corroborative RM dating or any of the other mountains of other data.

They just come out with the same old "the flood did it" please send money.

I hope you didn't pay for that rubbish because if you did you have been duped.

Date: 2006/11/13 11:21:59, Link
Author: k.e
Uh ... guys ... we're not arguing WHETHER there was a Global Flood ... we already did that weeks ago.

Well actually AFD forget weeks ago ...which you were completely unable to prove .........try a few centuries. Intelligent people have known for centuries that the old Biblical Mythology perishes under the hot glare of reason

Galileo and Copernicus shot most of it down long before Sir Walter Raleigh arrived in America when he saw all the new animals unknown in Europe he knew it was absolutely impossible for Noah to have collected examples of every species.

Your "One true word of g$d" AFD is a Myth.

The only stumbling going on AFD is your constant walking into doors, over ledges, into trees through windows ....a real comedy act.

Date: 2006/11/13 11:55:19, Link
Author: k.e
Here is a simple test AFD.

Go and see what REAL science i.e.Geology has to say about the White Cliffs of Dover.

1.What remains of living creatures it is composed of
2.How long it took for the deposits to form
3.What creatures burrowed in it over the millions of years it formed.
4.What living creatures the silicate/flint inclusions came from.

Now what quantity of planktonic green algae would it take to form 300-400 meters of chalk.

Start here

Date: 2006/11/13 20:29:52, Link
Author: k.e

Deadman ... Quote  
I won't even bother to say how silly this would be in an ACTUAL JOURNAL  

He's referring to the mention of Scripture in the article ...

Funny ...

Deadman laughs at the very Book that gave him the prosperity he now enjoys!

Sorta like spitting in your mom's face to show thanks for your Christmas presents.

....Prosperity he now enjoys .... Ah yes the shining whore house on the hill with the pastor outside scamming donations saying the end is nigh Davey.

As usual A BIG FAT LIE

Cheap energy relies on Geology that shows the Earth is billions of years old,not the Bible

Modern medicine relies on Biology that shows Random Mutations plus Natural Selection is responsible for life on earth, not the Bible

Modern Technology relies on science that shows there is no evidence for any deities, not the Bible

The US Constitution does not have one sentence from the Bible, Thomas Paine (1736-1809) author  of "The Rights of Man" and anti religionist had more influence on the US Constitution than Moses.

Date: 2006/11/13 20:40:07, Link
Author: k.e
Heh, there's a lot of humor involved in this, because names become something to have fun with at can reinforce close bonds or be used to smack around the pakeha as my lovely and brilliant Maori sweetie would say


That settles it DM you are a man of infinite taste.

Date: 2006/11/13 22:19:59, Link
Author: k.e

Think about the capabilities of all these organisms ... they are very mobile.  They can CLIMB ... hills and mountains that is.  When the water finally gets them they are very high and are not trapped by sediment.  They drown and meet the same fate as a run-of-the-mill dead fish, i.e. they get eaten by scavengers.  Dear me!  What do they teach these kids in school?

On the mountain of Purgatory I suppose.

That just HAS to be the stupidest thing have I ever heard in my WHOLE LIFE.

OK AFD take it win....all you need to do now is write it down in your AiG scrap book and present it to NASA.

Which I am sure will start looking for oversized fish fossils on the tops of Martian mountains now that you have presented the definitive guide to the History of the Earth.

....uh oh said 'think' one here is capable of that sort of 'thinking' .......we are all adults now.

Date: 2006/11/13 22:32:48, Link
Author: k.e
It's "hundreds of billions if not trillions of dead things."

Easily the scale must be trillions of orders of magnitude larger.

Consider how many trillions of microscopic algea deposited over a 10's of million years contribute to some thing like the 400 meter chalk cliffs at Dover in England.

The carboniferous period 135 million years ago responsible for the worlds finite supply of Oil would probably exceed those figures on their own.

Not to mention the far larger known supplies of coal.

If AFD was to apply his error to say the distance between
NY and LA he would have them less than a 100 meters apart.

Date: 2006/11/13 22:45:43, Link
Author: k.e
Richard Simons said:
...I live in hope that you realize that it would have ludicrous implications if it were in the atmosphere and equally I live in hope that you realize that it would have ludicrous implications if it were in the atmosphere and equally ludicrous implications if it were in biomass.if it were in biomass.

Davey doesn't get "ludicrous implications" he just does ludicrous implication.

Date: 2006/11/14 04:36:42, Link
Author: k.e
Perhaps we should open up a new thread, "Deleted by UD" or "Too Hot for Dembski to Handle".

I second that and make it sticky.

Date: 2006/11/14 09:25:27, Link
Author: k.e
AFD you *&^%$#*& scumbag

You compare your honesty to Deadman's?

He is a saint compared to you.

One wonders where else you dispose of the truth in your daily  life.

You take no responsibility for your mistreatment of children by distorting their reality; by promoting lies, YES LIES AFD, you are actually causing damage.

You're promotion of plainly insane propaganda from Creationists known and shown by you're Supreme Courts to be pathological liars is nothing short of criminal.

You absolutely disgust me.

Date: 2006/11/14 10:20:53, Link
Author: k.e
Oh brother ... more word games ... "evidence" vs. "proof" ...

Regardless of which word you use, you are still lying to public school kids with my tax dollars.

Shameful !!

Your tax dollars???? if you read the tax laws I think you will find the Govt. explicitly says those tax dollars are theirs and you accede by living under its protection...the same rule of law that protects and allows you to distort truth.....sad but true.

A closet survivalist are we AFD?

Where is all your bluff and bluster about how great the country is?

What was Hovind's defense "invalid subornation of whatever" ?

There you go AFD ....sue the Govt.

Date: 2006/11/14 10:42:02, Link
Author: k.e
you are still lying to public school kids

AFD you realize it is legal to allow your Creation Myth in comparative religion classes along with every other Creation Myth ?

Your Mommy and Daddy replaced a South American  Creation Myth with yours isn't that correct?

Have a look here for Creation Myth comparisons
The Creation Myths from India go back 17* centuries, the Chinese even have their own Flood Myth.
*correction 17,000 BCE
Creation Myths

Babylonian Creation Myth, African Creation Myths, Korean & Japanese, Navajo Creation Myth, Norse Creation Myth, Creation Myth from India, Japanese Creation Myth, Comanche Creation Myth, Chinese Creation Myth, Chelan Creation Myth, Pima Creation Myth, Mayan Creation Myth, Miwok Creation Myth, Scandinavian (Norse), Salish Creation Myth, Australian Aboriginal Creation Myth, Hopi Creation Myth, Tahitian Creation Myth, Yokut Creation Myth, Comanche Creation Myth,  Egyptian Creation Myths, African - Mande, Yoruba
Creation Myths,  Micmac Creation Myth, Lakota Creation Myth,India, Romania, Mongol, etc..Chinese Creation / Flood Myth, Assyrian / Babylonian Creation Myth,Maori Creation Myth, Christian & Jewish, Creation Myth (Genesis), Aztec Creation Myth, Digueno Creation Myth, Apache Creation Myth, Dakota Creation Myth, Hungarian Creation Myth, Iroquois Creation Myth, Inuit Creation Myth, Huron Creation Myth, Hawaiian Creation Myth

Date: 2006/11/14 21:46:25, Link
Author: k.e
Howabout a separate clean thread that just has links pointing to the actual censored posts on UD in this thread?

Or even better some way of coloring/highlighting the UD deleted post in this thread.

It's my right as an AtBCist to have that.

Date: 2006/11/14 23:55:22, Link
Author: k.e
1)  Use historical documents to determine events if they are available.  We have an excellent one.  It is called the Book of Genesis.


get the fuck outa here

Let me get this straight are claiming the imagined history of the Jewish people is like a newspaper report?

The whole tale is MYTH AFD.

Talking snakes, world wide flood, the sun stopping in the sky, incest, necromancy, talking sky demons, self immolating bushes, parting waters, pillars of salt,  900 year old men, instantly created adults from dust and bone, helio centricity, flat earthism, cults, slavery and feudalism; warlords and wardead; miracles and magic; ancestor worship and animal sacrifice;  propaganda, naked power and pride; envy and adultory; idols and passion; demons and djins; birth, rebirth and death;  rising dead and falling prophets; heroes, seers, sooth sayers and devils and women by the well; Failure and fornication; deceit and hubris; decrepitude and joy; Politics and polemic; Journeys and discovery; wrestling demons while sleeping, killing foes while waking.....

...yes AFD a fantasy, a fantastic dream. Expressed in the language of dream; not real but figurative; not objective but subjective. Poetry and prose as opposed to factual reportage, where time and space are suspended and every demon and boon is hyper real, where mans deepest fears and desires are brought to the waking surface of conciousness as distilled life in a rich elixir of innuendo and metaphor. Imagined underworlds explored then reported as though they were real, 'true detective stories' 'swords and sandles' and 'soap opera' writen by master story tellers.


Tall tales but 'true'.

Some assisted no doubt by psycho active substances, which I'm pretty sure AFD has never experienced...more the pity.

Just like all the other sub conscious projections of ancient man.

Taking any of that literally will cause insanity. i.e. to lose ones senses, to lose ones mind.

The Bible, as does other sacred religious texts, warns of that.

Date: 2006/11/14 23:58:59, Link
Author: k.e

The scavengers were frogs? Guess it's not easy being green...

You haven't heard of the great green moster?

It eats all in its path.

Date: 2006/11/15 08:38:08, Link
Author: k.e
AssFlightDave the boy with wings made of feathers and wax makes a Freudian slip.

OA ... Yes, the sun IS a big burning ball of fire ...

After you finish your cat experiment, why don't you call Virgin Galactic and see if they can give you a charter flight to the sun ...  when you return crispier, then we can talk about it some more :-)

Ah yes the Myth of Prometheus...I'm sure even his raptureness knows that one.

A story meant to be taken literally, as all the old myths were, to convey a concept; a moral; a warning to those who become so full of themselves with overconfidence in their own capabilities, or the rapture of knowing their gods, to be careful or one will meet a sudden coming down to earth (reality will catch up with those that equate their mortal splendor with those of the gods).

Science impacts Myth in a way that makes them quaint anachronisms, however as we see with AFD some things never change. Man the myth maker still tries to have myth maketh the man.

The purpose of Myth is to give identity to the tribe members and its place in the natural word.

A social reality is constructed which need not and in most cases will not, match the natural material world, however it must SEEM to the tribe to be true.

The keepers of the myth through the use of ceremony and obscurantism constantly remind the members that their very existence depends on the myth.

The easiest way to do that is to create 'an other' the outsiders, an enemy whose purpose is to destroy the myth and by extension the tribe's reality and the tribe itself, the myth thus becomes self perpetuating and its magic reality more real than reality itself. A powerful illusion. To be a member one must leave ones mind at the door.

A repeating theme is to prepare the child for adulthood by a process of radical transformation, the circumcision is the perfect example. In exchange for becoming an adult a blood sacrifice to the ancestors where the child is effectively forced to leave childhood behind and prepare to carry out the purpose of the tribe, protect and procreate.

Its the oldest story in the world , a timeless tale promoted by the world's oldest profession ..identity politics aka religion.

So AFD fly higher, your wax is yet to melt.

Date: 2006/11/15 09:02:50, Link
Author: k.e
Sal the enchanted child of the trickster Anansi doesn't know if he's meeting or deleting.

Trickster is at one and the same time creator and destroyer, giver and negator, he who dupes others and who is always duped himself. He wills nothing consciously. At all times he is constrained to behave as he does from impulses over which he has no control. He knows neither good nor evil yet he is responsible for both. He possesses no values, moral or social, is at the mercy of his passions and appetites, yet through his actions all values come into being.

Huge list of stories here.

Jamaica Anansi Stories

Date: 2006/11/15 09:09:01, Link
Author: k.e
But the very fact that there ARE NOT any historical records that extend back any farther than 5500 years or so should raise a giant question mark in your mind about the supposed billions-of-years history of Planet Earth.

Ice cores going back 400,000 years

Cores from oil wells going back 135,000,000 years

Fossils going back 3500,000,000 years

Cave paintings in France 20,000 years

Rock carvings in Australia 50,000 years plus

Stone age tools in Africa over 100,000 years

Proven beyond doubt.

Date: 2006/11/15 10:44:56, Link
Author: k.e
Simple Springer sez:


All I’m asking for is a positive demonstration that unintelligent processes can produce the complex nanometer scale machinery found in living cells.

Sorry I'd like to accomodate but I have this thing about doing it in public (if I know someone is watching) on the other hand that hasn't stopped me from being sprung in flagrante least that's what she said her name was.

So Davetard my best advice is to head down to the zoo and observe RM+NS through sexual reproduction in action.

If the animals don't comply a box of chocolats and a Barry White CD might help.

Date: 2006/11/16 07:11:09, Link
Author: k.e
This is NOT proper investigatory research.  This is pure sales pitch without ANY research applied.

Do you see my point?

Yeah it seems to me the only time AFD has actually read anything vaguely scientific is maybe a National Geographic in a dentist's surgery and then only because he couldn't bring himself to look at the 'sealed section' of Cosmo.

He probably skipped anything that didn't look 'true', at least to his twisted version of truth, such as millions of years.

He regards 'science' as being on par with pseudo science, since to him, it is all to do with marketing,
....that is to say propaganda.

He seems to think that comparing the 2 products(of Human creativity) is like buying a car.

He checks the brochures, but the dealer is more important, if the dealer said 'Buy a 2 cylinder Trabant and you will go to heaven' he would do it.

He seems to think a reputation for being a god botherer seals the deal.


Pseudoscience listed alphabetically (from Wikipedia)
AIDS reappraisal
Mostafa A. Abdelkader
Ad hoc
Albert Abrams
Alexander Donski
An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races
Animal magnetism
Anomalous phenomenon
Anthropological criminology
Anti-racist mathematics
Appeal to authority
Applied kinesiology
Assist (Scientology)
Astrology and numerology
Aura (paranormal)
Aura analysis
Jon-Erik Beckjord
John Bedini
Michael Behe
Betty Edwards
Bible code
Bible scientific foreknowledge

Bifidus digestivum
Big Rip
Bioecological medicine
Biological Anthropology
Biological transmutation
Bioresonance therapy
Black supremacy
Body memory
Bottled air
Brain Gym
Wiley Brooks
Brown's gas
Thomas Townsend Brown
Sylvia Browne
The Bélmez Faces
Ricardo Carezani
Cargo cult science
Robert Todd Carroll
Channelling (mediumistic)
Charles Musès
Chemtrail theory
Chi Machine
Chi generator
C cont.
Alex Chiu
Cold fusion
Cold reading
Confirmation bias
Controversial science
Copper Healing
Bob Cornuke
Crank (person)
Created kind
Creation biology
Creation science

Creative Visualization
Crystal power
Cultural selection theory
Erich von Däniken
Dean drive
William A. Dembski
Dermo-optical perception
Edward R. Dewey
Diagnostic kinesiology
Duesberg hypothesis
Déjà vu
Earth immune system
Earth mysteries
Earth radiation
Edgar Dean Mitchell
John Edward
The Biggest Douche in the Universe
Effective Microorganisms
Electric universe (concept)
Electroacupuncture according to Voll
Emergy evaluation
Emotional Freedom Techniques
Masaru Emoto
Energy vampire
Extraterrestrial hypothesis
Fads and Fallacies in the Name of Science
False precision
Fingerprints of the Gods
Flat Earth Society
Flood geology
Gaga (hypothetical moon)
Game nou
Gerson therapy
Ghost hunting
Arthur de Gobineau
Grand supercycle
Götaland theory
Hieronymus machine
History of pseudoscience
Holism in science
Hollow Earth
Holonomic brain theory
House healing
H cont.
Barbara Marx Hubbard
Hulda Regehr Clark
Human zoo
Hundredth Monkey
Hutchison effect
John Hutchison
Hydrostatic shock
Indigo children
Infinite Energy
Inoue Enryo
Instrumental transcommunication
Insulin potentiation therapy
Intelligent design
Interdimensional hypothesis
International Society for the Interdisciplinary Study of Symmetry
Ionized bracelet
Irreducible complexity
Japanese blood type theory of personality
Japhetic theory (linguistics)
John Ernst Worrell Keely
Kirlian photography
Paul Kurtz
Lateralization of brain function
Law of Truly Large Numbers
Ley line
Gene Matlock
List of discredited substances
List of magazines of anomalous phenomena
List of scientific societies rejecting intelligent design
Lovozero Tundras
Lunar effect
Luo Points
Trofim Lysenko
Oscar Kiss Maerth
Magnet therapy
Maharishi Vedic Science
James McCanney
Gillian McKeith
Megalithic yard
Mental literacy
Meridian (Chinese medicine)
Metamorphic Technique
Pseudoscientific metrology
Moon Obelisks
James Morison (physician)
Morphogenetic field
Henry M. Morris
Ernest Muldashev
National mysticism
Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About
Nazi archaeology
Neuro-linguistic programming
New Age
Joseph Newman (inventor)

is on par with anything above NOT on that list.

Strangely on the remote farm I grew up on which had no television but mountains of National Geographic magazines, helped more to pique my interest in the natural world and science  than anything else. And I'm sure helped to produce a world view not limited by the parochial pedophiliacs posing as preachers.

My guess is AFD's grass shack deep in the heart of heathen country had nothing enlightening  other than Popular Mechanics and "Instant Gratification"- a weekly review of Church Architecture.

Date: 2006/11/16 07:18:10, Link
Author: k.e
If you want anything, just whistle...

My first daughter was named after her on the strength of that scene.

Date: 2006/11/16 07:37:39, Link
Author: k.e
Snap ...I would have done the same .

(I checked the actual line and corrected it in last post)

....another senior moment

Date: 2006/11/16 08:11:06, Link
Author: k.e
And while I'm at it....... another correction.

Earlier I blamed Prometheus for Icarus' travails.
From Wikipedia
In Greek mythology, 'Prometheus (Ancient Greek, "forethought") is the Titan chiefly honored for stealing fire from the gods in the stalk of a fennel plant and giving it to mortals for their use

Since AFD  didn't correct me on such an obvious mistake I can conclude he doesn't read anything other than his cult approved brain wash.

So here it is AFD reprinted in your honor ....note the highlight.
Prometheus was a son of Iapetus by Clymene (one of the Oceanids). He was a brother of Atlas, Menoetius, and Epimetheus, but he surpassed all in cunning and deceit. He held no awe for the gods, and he ridiculed Zeus, though he fought alongside the gods against the other Titans. Prometheus, in some myths, is credited with the creation of man; in others, this role is assigned to Zeus.[citation needed] When he and his brother Epimetheus set out to make creatures to populate the earth under the orders of Cronos, Prometheus carefully crafted a creature after the shape of the gods: a man. According to the myths, a horrendous headache overcame Zeus and no healer of the realm was able to help the Lord of the Gods. Prometheus came to him and declared that he knew how to heal Zeus, taking a rock from the ground Prometheus proceeded to hit Zeus in the head with it. From out of Zeus' head popped the Goddess Athena, with her emergence Zeus' headache disappeared. Some myths attribute Hephestus to the splitting of the head rather than Prometheus.

Prometheus and Epimetheus journeyed to Earth from Olympus, they ventured to the Greek province of Boitia and made clay figures. Athena took the figures and breathed life into them, the figures that Prometheus had created became Man and honored him. The figures that his brother Epimetheus had created became the beasts, which turned and attacked him.

Zeus was angered by the brothers' actions, he forbade the pair from teaching Man the ways of civilization, Athena chose to cross Zeus and taught Prometheus so that he might teach Man.

For their actions, Zeus demanded a sacrifice from Man to the Gods to show that they were obedient and worshipful. The gods and mortal man had arranged a meeting at Mecone where the matter of division of sacrifice was to be settled. Prometheus slew a large ox, and divided it into two piles. In one pile he put all the meat and most of the fat, skillfully covering it with the ox's grotesque stomach, while in the other pile, he dressed up the bones artfully with shining fat. Prometheus then invited Zeus to choose. Zeus, seeing through the trick, realised that in purposefully getting tricked he would have an excuse to vent his anger on mortal man, and thus chose the pile of bones (many sources say that Zeus did not, in fact, see through this trick). This also gives a mythological explanation of the practice of sacrificing only the bones to the gods, while man gets to keep the meat and fat.

Zeus in his wrath denied men the secret of fire. Prometheus felt sorry for his creations, and watched as they shivered in the cold and winter's nights. He decided to give his most loved creation a great gift that was a "good servant and bad master". He took fire from the hearth of the gods by stealth and brought it to men in a hollow wand of fennel, or ferule that served him instead of a staff. Thus mankind was warm. To punish Prometheus for this hubris (and all of mankind in the process), Zeus devised "such evil for them that they shall desire death rather than life, and Prometheus shall see their misery and be powerless to succor them. That shall be his keenest pang among the torments I will heap upon him." Zeus could not just take fire back, because a god or goddess could not take away what the other had given.

Zeus was enraged because the giving of fire began an era of enlightenment for Man, and had Prometheus carried to Mount Caucasus, where an eagle by the name of Ethon (offspring of the monsters Typhon and Echidna) would pick at his liver; it would grow back each day and the eagle would eat it again. In some stories, Zeus has Prometheus tortured on the mountain because he knows the name of the person who, according to prophecy, will overthrow the king of the gods. This punishment was to last 30,000 years. About 12 generations later, Heracles (known as Hercules in Roman mythology), passing by on his way to find the apples of the Hesperides as part of the Twelve Labours, freed Prometheus, in a bargain he had agreed with Zeus in exchange for Chiron's immortality, by shooting the eagle with an arrow. Zeus did not mind this time that Prometheus had again evaded his punishment, as the act brought more glory to Heracles, who was Zeus's son. Prometheus was invited to return to Olympus, though he still had to carry with him the rock to which he was chained.

To punish man for the offenses of Prometheus, Zeus told Hephaestus (Vulcan) to "mingle together all things loveliest, sweetest, and best, but look that you also mingle therewith the opposites of each." So Hephaestus took gold and dross, wax and flint, pure snow and mud of the highways, honey and gall; he took the bloom of the rose and the toad's venom, the voice of laughing water and the peacocks squall; he took the seas beauty and its treachery, the dog's fidelity and the wind's inconstancy, and the mother bird's heart of love and the cruelty of the tiger. All these, and other contraries past number, he blended cunningly into one substance and this he molded into the shape that Zeus had described to him. She was as beautiful as a goddess and Zeus named her Pandora which meant "all gifted".

Zeus breathed upon her image, and it lived. Zeus sent her to wed Prometheus' brother, Epimetheus, and although Prometheus had warned his brother never to accept gifts from the Olympians, Epimetheus ("hind-thought", as opposed to "fore-thought") was love-stricken, and he and Pandora wed. The Gods adorned the couple with many wedding gifts, and Zeus presented them with a beautifully wrought box. When Pandora opened the box, all suffering and despair was unleashed upon mankind. Zeus had had his revenge.

As the introducer of fire and inventor of crafts, Prometheus was seen as the patron of human civilization. Uncertain sources claim he was worshipped in ancient Rome as well along with other gods.

He was the father of Deucalion with Pronoia who is often confused as Clymene because the both of them are often called by the same other name, Asia.

[edit] Comparative perspectives
In mythography, Prometheus may be classed among the trickster gods, such as Loki in Norse mythology. Like Prometheus, Loki is a giant rather than a god, is associated with fire, and is punished by being chained to a rock, and tormented by an animal. Yet Loki is malevolent, while Prometheus is a benefactor to humanity. In addition, Prometheus is very intelligent and acts with forethought, unlike the rash Loki. The similarities between the two characters may be coincidental. The motif is believed, by some, to have been borrowed from the Nart sagas of the Caucasian peoples, but the analogies with Loki seem to reveal an older Indo-European source.

The Prometheus myth bears striking similarities to the Adamic myth of the fall of man. The Promethean fire and the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge can be considered semiotic synonyms; there are clear links between Pandora and Eve. In fact the euphemistic name for Satan's former angelic form, Lucifer — actually, a Latin name for the planet Venus — literally means "light bearer," which seems to hint at the image of Prometheus carrying the divine fire down to man. Of course, Satan was not called Lucifer until St. Jerome translated the Hebrew phrase heilel ben-schahar in the Latin Vulgate, many centuries after the account of the Fall of Man was written, making a Prometheus-Lucifer/Satan connection rather unlikely.

Such a reading seems to identify Yahweh as Zeus and the serpent/Satan as the Prometheus figure. This reading is problematic for Judeo-Christian readers, since it seems to suggest that Yahweh is jealous, vengeful and keen to restrict humankind, while presenting Satan as a Prometheus-like champion of humanity. Satanism uses Prometheus as a symbolic aspect of Satan. (see the article Satanism) However, there is no actual evidence of actual borrowing between these two cultures. Old Testament scholarship and that of the contemporary cultures (Hittitology, Assyriology, and Egyptology) show that the beginning of Genesis is modeled more in-line with Ancient Near Eastern myth, so if there is any borrowing, it would be more likely that the Greeks borrowed from an Ancient Near Eastern culture.

Date: 2006/11/16 09:46:36, Link
Author: k.e
RE: Kristines DT stains.

Hey Dave Tard you're giving Tardiness a bad image.

At least most tards are unaware of their own failings, must you change that?

Do you think you are the world's most important dipshit?

Does being a professional a##hole give you a hardon?

Your wife of 26 years is what?

Who didn't appear in Playboy again?

Come on lick spittle ....pull your tool out and show us all what a big man you are.....You're black right?

Coz if you are white there is nothing that can be done for pizzle .

Date: 2006/11/16 11:10:28, Link
Author: k.e
A tiny rip in the canvas of AFD's Cosmos is letting in light.

AFD is having a fleeting Truman moment.

He has just walked by a door that appeared to be an elevator but actually opened onto a movie set.

Fix that projector AFD

Now I have made it clear that Creationists place a LOW value on ACTUAL EVIDENCE (as does any PSEUDOSCIENTIST worth his salt) and I think I am seeing that the key difference between yourselves and creationists lies in this one simple fact.

ToE advocates discount the historical record of the Bible and call it a myth.

**AFD gets a tick, his reality would evaporate if he accepted that, fear and danger awaits AFD so .... **

Back to his projection:


Thus, Creationists  have only their wild imaginations as starting points for their Origins Models IF THEY GIVE UP THEIR MYTH.


Creationists have a high regard for this historical record of the Bible and use the various accounts as starting points for their Origins Models.


Origins Models land Eden

Let Truman's Trauma continue

This explains a lot.

The real problem is that Creationist advocates call their weird art "science."  But it is not.  It is actually a religious philosophy.  Worse, it is a religious philosophy completely devoid of any factual basis.  IOW, we have no evidence that higher life forms develop from lower life forms, we have no evidence that the earth is X THOuSAND years old.  We have only unwarranted assumptions, then a whole plethora of "calibrated" measurements to support the myth.


Date: 2006/11/16 19:48:17, Link
Author: k.e
Kristine asked

May I ask this: am I the only woman posting at AtBC? Just wondering.

Surely Not another regular of the female persuasion.

Dave blows Tards is highly suspicious since he was caught very publicly salivating, while wearing a sticky overcoat with it's pockets removed, over cyber uber-fems Jannie-belle and corporal Kate.

The whole affair had a beautiful denouement, with Dave blows Tards scurrying off with his tail between his legs and his fly open.

....hehe was one of the major scandals that caused the HUGE republican loss in the mid term elections.

**edit ...oops just read thru the other replies ignore redundancy

Date: 2006/11/16 21:43:23, Link
Author: k.e
Now why don't you just pretend for a minute that you agree that there was a Global Flood.  Do you understand the line of reasoning?  (I know you don't buy the Flood, but if you did, would you follow the logic?)

You pretend you're a fire engine and I'll make a siren sound.

Childrens stuff AFD. Stop drooling on you're keyboard.

When are you going to grow up?

Date: 2006/11/16 23:58:21, Link
Author: k.e
Cowardly curmudgeon, brown shirted IDist  and two faced Dave says  "other face IS STILL THE SAME".

It just isn't worth it when the end result is I have to try to hide who I am by tediously disguising my writing and opinions and STILL get caught right away.

Here's why DaveTard just mixed the words up.

It just isn't worth it when the end result is my tedious writing and opinions are impossible to disguise.

See .....if you were honest you would have nothing to hide.

Here is a free hint......honesty is when you don't actually lie ...thought you might like to know that.

I'm a homo and I'm outa here D.T.

Date: 2006/11/17 07:56:41, Link
Author: k.e
...Others selected (in order listed):

Stephan Colbert
Sacha Baron Cohen

Oh for Christ's sake one from AtBC is mentioned....... ESPECIALLY ME!!!!

What do Dawkins and Colbert have that I don't besides brains and good looks?

Just because some watery tart at Salon has handed Excaliburs pen to some media flouncer we are all supposed to bow down.

Well I'm going to philosophically liberate the down trodden masses and declare that anything can be true, free from empiricism, arise Sir Post Modernism and take the Demskistatic Oath "Nothing is true and you can't make me say it can't be

Date: 2006/11/17 17:38:14, Link
Author: k.e
How odd AFD preaches.

And Hoists himself on ANOTHER petard.

His projection is in vivid wide screen Technicolor.

27 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Yes, this describes you (not just you--you collectively--you and your cohorts here at ATBC) perfectly.  You strain at a gnat and swallow a camel !!  You mislead the public and our schoolchildren.  You lie to them and tell them that Genesis is a fairy tale.  Then you act all smug and righteous.

TA Daaa!

What an act AFD ...take a bow.
The crying clown on the empty stage, not a comedy a tragedy.
And like ALL his useless preaching on his non existent Flood we have an other pile of doggy doos.

He quotes a moral from his book that suggests those whose internal beliefs do not match their external beliefs are immoral. Or one who says one thing but actually thinks another is ungodly.

What Jesus is ACTUALLY saying is those who concern themselves with consumerism and material things in preference to honesty, truth and justice by keeping up appearances for the sake of appearances only, are immoral.

A typical rant, what else would you expect?

It looks like AFD is making a virtue out of lying and hypocrisy.

To keep up appearances of believing in THE UNBELIEVABLE or THE BIG LIE, first one must make the outside story match the internal story.

***In AFD's mind this means making reality a lie.

AFD has enough reasoning ability to know that if the bible is not true, then god cannot be a true idea.

AFD's internal story:- "the bible, must be true real history and therefore there is a god"; the external world aka reality can then only be "the exact result of biblical history OTHERWISE NOTHING IS REAL."

AFD produce your evidence for a MASSIVE SPIKE of CO2 in the pre 5000 year atmosphere.

IF TRUE, you will find that CO2 spike in those Vostok ice cores going back 400,000 years.

(sound of crickets chirping)

What you can't?

I thought so.

Date: 2006/11/17 22:22:56, Link
Author: k.e
BTW in Shakespeare's day a petard was a form of crane for lifting things. It could also be translated into modern English as cock. (and handsaw was his spelling of harnser, a heron.)

I only recently discovered this meaning for Petard up until then I always thought it was a pike  and 'Hoist on one's own petard was to have ones severed head placed on a pike for public display'  as one of my High School teachers claimed.

Shakespearean punnery and word play is extremely clever and if a petard or a similar sounding word did mean a crane then even better. Thats why I liked my sig. the last line has 2 meanings.

Lifted by ones own crane has the image of someone winding the cranes windlass while roped to the the cranes lifting hook.

However, I am unable to find a refernce to that. Perhaps it might be in the OED? (NOT the one without the crane)

Date: 2006/11/18 02:38:30, Link
Author: k.e
Dave Scott Springer can now add Cyber Stalking to his CV.

..piece of sh!t

Date: 2006/11/18 08:45:38, Link
Author: k.e
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Then god gave him an @sshole which WAD uses to speak from.
Then WOD gave us a heel, DaveTurd.

After a while Dave Scott Springer then apologized for being one........time wounds all heels.

Of course ......much more believable than a rich chemical prebiotic enviroment in which the first simple cells self organized and reproduced more than 3.5 billion years ago for which we have fossils.

Date: 2006/11/19 02:12:58, Link
Author: k.e
Wow davetard2 AiG is making gazillions from donations and it is not a church?

Well they are so sucessful google will be buying the 'flud based bible business' for billions right?

Quick tell the IRS to revoke its church status.

Date: 2006/11/20 09:42:39, Link
Author: k.e
Random mutations, filtered or not by natural selection, are what NDE says is the source of variation. Random by definition means unpredictable. So if the theory begins by admitting it has no predictive power then what possible good is it? Yet they call it the unifying principle of all biology.

As opposed to ID which predicts g$ the grand old cosmic draftsman (he the disemboweled telic  thingy is a verrrry bright you know ) imagined it and took a handful of dust and miracularized photosynthesis and replication into existence, d'uh it's just so obvious.

Is DT permanently stoned on exhaust fumes?

That boy is having real problems holding more than one abstract idea in his mind at a time.

Why is the thought that new generations of a particular species will be shaped by their environment through fitness of individuals and sexual selection *not to his liking? When it has been observed countless times and will in the future whether he likes it or not.

An inferiority complex perhaps?

His greatest fear is that a purely statistical mechanism and not his skin color and social position could determine the future of his tribe.

No wonder he likes the idea of white middle class Yankee god with a small willy.

* missed

Date: 2006/11/20 09:57:47, Link
Author: k.e
I hope it is DT it would be a nice Xmas present.

Date: 2006/11/21 10:20:25, Link
Author: k.e
I nominate JAD for Crazy Old Man at the back of the Bus Award.

I'll bet DT is jealous.

Date: 2006/11/21 10:31:07, Link
Author: k.e
It's quite possible I'm libelling the North Korean press by comparing them with AiG, in which case I apologize.

Nup, you are spot on Russell, the North Korean press are the propaganda arm for a personality cult led total dictatorship which controls it's followers by creating a social realism based purely on mind control.

They keep their followers in the dark and use fear and spin to keep them under their control.

No fact is too inconvienient to be totally denied.  

Just like AiG.

Date: 2006/11/21 21:21:53, Link
Author: k.e
Well AFD you have had plenty of time to produce your evidence ......ANY EVIDENCE for your Flud.

Where is the evidence for an atmospheric CO2 spike around 5000 years ago?

I hope you read the link to the AiG shenanigans on this site

What do you think?

Sound familiar?

Anything like your church?..... where the pigs at the top get to roll around in that trough of money?

What did you say when the sheep questioned it AFD?

Well if you need any help just quotemine this from AiG's disgruntled Australian estranged parent Creation Ministries International regarding the corporate takeover.

This sorry development will bring shame on the Name of our Lord and Saviour, and give cause for the enemies of God to gloat. Would you please consider committing these matters, which also have the potential do damage to creation ministry in general (even more than has already occurred), to prayer.

Yours very sincerely in Christ,


Date: 2006/11/21 21:52:11, Link
Author: k.e
DaveTard "It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them."

Now gives us a prelude to his magnum opus.

While he and "micro-testes" Dembski take their moveable feast of Tard to the very walls of Judea with a plausible 'Virgin Birth' scenario for biology, we are going to be treated to the disembowelment of one of the central tennants of Christianity.

Mary was not the father of god ....or the mother for that matter ......Jesus was a girly ....a bearded lady from a travelling Jewish freak show.

Dembski and El Tardo left a deposit at a zero year CE spermbank....a toilet seat down in the Kazbah..... and a rash of unmarried women now claim to be pregnant with HIM.

UD and it's rusted on backwash hurtle towards a pre-industrial trainwreck.

Nothing miraculous here, move along please.

...oh wait.....that happened all the time, sorry for the confusion.

It appears that practically anyone who was a major celebrity then, could have a virgin birth added to his CV/Myth by his propagandists.

Alexander the Great, Emperor Augustus and hundreds of others ...carry on.

Date: 2006/11/21 22:01:47, Link
Author: k.e
C14 dating beyond 6000 YBP is based upon faulty assumptions

Fine .....produce your 5000 year old CO2 spike.

Date: 2006/11/22 01:33:40, Link
Author: k.e

..I’m(DT) still waiting for those odds… nobody said virgin birth in humans was common. In fact there’s only one claim of it in history. Our purpose here is only to determine if it is possible or not. You’ve already hedged in saying it’s virtually impossible which is really an admission that it is indeed possible but improbable.

One virgin Birth?

Shiva H. Krishnu .........DT shows his ignorance of History as well as the Impossible.

Listen up DT .....the Virgin Birth is a MYTH borrowed from Pagan mythology. Look it up. There were literally 100's of 'Virgin Births' in ancient history.

Here is a little giggle to get you going.

Insurance to cover a virgin birth
In June 2006, it was revealed that a British insurer,, had provided a £1 million insurance policy to three Scottish women to provide cover in the event of one of them having a virgin birth. The payout was to cover the costs of bringing up the Christ. The policy was cancelled following pressure from the Catholic Church. [2].

while MacNeill indulges in a little word play

And yes, I’ve read Davison’s semi-meiotic hypothesis

Semiotics for Beginners

Date: 2006/11/22 02:01:49, Link
Author: k.e

Date: 2006/11/22 06:48:15, Link
Author: k.e
WAD pleads for something special-
Clearly, in the absence of the Darwinian interpretation, the default assumption would have been that repetitive nucleotide sequences must have some unknown function.

Lets see....uh.....the 'virgin birth' genes perhaps?

oh oh ..ask me ask me.........its the left over dust/junk from the creationist abiogenesis.

Howabout the resurection gene?

Date: 2006/11/22 07:24:41, Link
Author: k.e
DT just keep in mind if gravity was suddenly promoted to the stongest force in the Universe every atomic bond in your body would be ripped apart instantly and the whole universe would form a black hole the size of an orange.

Perhaps you should update your CV from autodidact with an IQ measured by corn cob to ..........boy in charge of human body who has never read instructions on how to use brain.

Date: 2006/11/22 07:43:09, Link
Author: k.e
I'm headed to Oklahoma for a few days of Thanksgiving to God for our great country.

Well you can thank Pres. Lincoln for the Holiday he gave you to take peoples minds off your Civil War in 1863.

Can you pray that Allah won't blow something up there? Since the Oklahoma bombers seem to have been tied up with some fundamentalist sect which claimed to aligned to your god.

Date: 2006/11/22 09:15:20, Link
Author: k.e

Esssentially, the Darwinists cannot find enough fundie whackos to discredit the idea of design in nature, so they are compelled to impersonate them.

I nominate that statement for the greatest all time funiest ID statement YET.

D'OLlar matter HOW HARD WE TRY we just could not impersonate THAT.

AFD doesn't even come close.

Dave Tard he impersonating a whacko whacko..fundy or otherwise?

Time for a tune. (sorry for the repeat)

Sung to The Major General's Song from Gilbert and Sullivan's The Pirates of Penzance

I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General
I've calculated vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I know the probability of every possibility
from fallacy to outcome, I am quite delusional
I 'm very well acquainted too with matters scientifical,
I understand creations, both the simple and complexical,
About Mt Rushmore I'm teeming with a lot o' news
­With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views.

With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the usefulness of creo views;
With many cheerful facts about the  usefulness of
creosote spews

I'm very good at banning and dissing all the rest of you,
I know the scientific pages of magazines american;
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

I know our constitution and judged'over Activists
I didactically dally in fundamental politics
I quote unknown authors of fictional stupidty
I give lessons growing mushrooms in basements very rapidly
In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

In short, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General

In fact, when I know what is meant by 'RNA' and 'DNA,'
When I can tell at sight a Mountain from a Statue-a,
When such affairs as genes and springing them willy-nilly,
And when I know precisely what is meant by 'biology,'
When I have learnt what progress has been made in modern skulduggery
When I know more of tactics than a novice in thuggery;
In short, when I've a smattering of genetical humbuggery
You'll say a better dopey Design-o General had never sat a  blog-gery.. -


For my biology knowledge, though I'm sucky and abdury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of last century;
But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
I am the very model of a dopey Design-o General.

But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral,
He is the very model of a dopey Design-o General!

Date: 2006/11/22 10:05:33, Link
Author: k.e
In this case, those empty spaces are magnified by the inclusion of DaveScot's personal ignorance…making his god a truly great god.

Magnified empty spaces?....... aren't they filled with omnipotent homo bunnies all having virgin births otherwise known as fark matter .....which makes up 70% of the known universe!

It's true .... google it.

Maybe DT thinks g$d is goog.

This is even better than DT's UDoJ moment.

Date: 2006/11/22 11:04:38, Link
Author: k.e
Zachriel on DT's hubris and potential mollification

And he might even start the process of learning.

WHAT?...and admit g$d is a gap?

I'll alpha male your ass, Homo! DT

Date: 2006/11/22 11:22:21, Link
Author: k.e
A virgin (or any woman) conceiving by the Holy Spirit is a miracle and hence inexplicable via science. It can be denied, but its lack of a scientific explanation is a feature, not a bug.

That boy did not grow up on a farm.

If Heddle ever sees this my lips.

A virgin (or any woman) conceiving by the Holy Spirit is a NOT a miracle IT'S AN URBAN LEGEND aka Myth.

Feature or bug? Yes of course it could be considered to be either if it wasn't just vapourware and only ran on Powerpulpit with a man in a dress moving the mouse....virtual reality aka magical thinking.

Now that the IDist's have shown that each time they boot their stupid OS the blue screen of death comes up quicker and quicker, soon the whole mess will end up in a dumpster.

Maybe that's where Heddle got his OS from.

Date: 2006/11/22 11:39:13, Link
Author: k.e
Currently on UD:

Jesus was a mutant: some YEC apologetics.

What's that I hear?

*Puts hands to ears*

Ohh, it's the sound of darwinist evilutionary religion crumbling.

Over on OE:

*** a tumbleweed rolls across the scene, cautiously eyed by two crows. In the distance, a bell rings ***


A lone rider with a black hat is seen on a shimmering horizon is he coming this way?
clip clop


Dembski to DO'L "Hurry up with that book we've got to get the presses rolling before the tards get sick of being called tards"

DO'L "I don't get paid to be an IDist I'm going to write a book on wacko fundies are you available?"

WAD "Har har har ....I'll impersonate one for you"

DO'L "No need to be snarky"

WAD "Whatever you do don't write about Dave Tard, comdey never got anyone into a church"

DO'L "Who said anything about comedy? This is a tragedy"

WAD "Yeah yeah on the persecuted mesiah angle that should go down well"

DO'L "Uh huh...which mesiah?"

WAD " Me of course"

DO'L ".....gotta go"

Date: 2006/11/22 11:51:34, Link
Author: k.e
Dave, it is simply inconceivable that anyone who claims to have read the authors you claim to have read, and actually read them for comprehension, could possibly be under the misapprehension that the

Well he did say he gets bored with them after a few pages, of course what he really means is that he just doesn't understand them after a few pages. He likes fantasy, bible study is more up his alley.

Date: 2006/11/22 22:24:19, Link
Author: k.e
How revealing DT unctuously grovels at the feet of his small tent brethren

Anyone who claims the earth is 6000 years old isn’t going to be persuaded by any amount of argument so why bother? ID has nothing to say about the age of the earth. We don’t have a dog in that hunt.

Right not only won't ID say what design is, they won't say when it did or did not happen either.

That line in the sand is creeping rapidly towards their own feet.

Wow ....soon they'll be down to pure chance and randomness in other words nothing at all.

Another fine day for Xtian apologetics, next they will be hanging up their bikes, white shirts and bibles then drinking beer and dancing.

Date: 2006/11/22 22:33:36, Link
Author: k.e
Ha! Louis, you will be laughing out the otherside of you mouth when the Ashes return to their rightful owners .....that should put a wet condom on your love life.

Date: 2006/11/22 23:02:59, Link
Author: k.e

Sorry I'm confused. Why should the Ashes returning to England worry me at all?

Hehehehhehe you antipodeans

Date: 2006/11/22 23:16:19, Link
Author: k.e
Lou FCD that was from one of our best exports

John Safran Vs God

And Louis one of the funniest things Safran did a few years back was send a remote controlled toy car with a stuffed Seagul strapped to it onto a cricket pitch where Shane Warne was playing..... with a cigarette in its beak.

Date: 2006/11/22 23:28:43, Link
Author: k.e
I suppose I should clarify who Shane Warne is and why a seagul and a cigarette is funny on a cricket pitch.

Shane Warne is a Cricket sport god here in Oz and went through a long series of very humiliating and very public addiction issues with sex and nicotine.

While he was promoting a brand of nicotine based products for which he recieved a huge promotion contract he was caught smoking in public, needless to say the contract was 'reviewed'.

Safran rubbed salt into the wound on a national TV comedy show.

Date: 2006/11/23 08:27:37, Link
Author: k.e
Deadman notes:
Ack, I forgot to add: that photo is of a young Neanderthal male (reconstruction).

Yeah I suspected it was a fake at first sight and I got that it was male.

88 and 118 so I'm normal whatever that is.

Now onto the serious stuff. Louis please note as a Kiwi and an honorary Aussie and thus have bragging rights on both Rugby (GRRRR: GO the Blacks) and Cricket (except when NZ plays Oz *sob*) old blighty rarely meets that test of character which the 'tests' test. Possibly due to the enterprising classes which filled Newdegate Prison and the remnant hulks of Nelsons Navy; The highway robbers, shop lifters, ricket burners, Fabians and the blessed couldn't give a f*** Irish who were exported to Botany bay. We can of course thank the Americans who had the good sense to import cheaper and better slaves than the scurvy prison hulks of England could provide. The solution of sending them to Sydney Cove complete with shiploads of prostitutes, sultry pick pockets and petty panty thieves should have been considered with due regard to England's future sporting defeats, in retrospect

Luckily you did anyway, otherwise the country today would be colonized by the yanks or worse the French    who would have thought a wide brown land filled with Kangaroos with a permanent limp and a glassy stare from the early convict Madge Culls, Mollies and Flutters* indulging in the love that dare not be named, ideal to carry on their own perversions, standing to attention with Teutonic rectitude and solemnly saluting flags raised by tinsel wearing toy soldiers in the middle of the day for no reason at all or stuffing geese with Koalas.

*Georgian Cant for homosexuals.

Date: 2006/11/23 08:36:22, Link
Author: k.e

I believe I've made my point and so I shall return to my mobile home and shoot a few chipmunks from the windows with a bazooka while I watch televised AMERICAN football in my cowboy hat and polyester suit

Bloody American chipmunks .....exceedingly happy and coniving little beasts ...a bit like door to door Mormans , I can understand why you want to end their lives with extreme predjudice

Note: This is also humor, folks (and I stole a great deal of it).

Caddy Shack?

Date: 2006/11/23 09:22:54, Link
Author: k.e
Our sun will one day become a red giant etc...

If Gil and his wacko nuclear armed literalistic second coming friends in the Middle East let us get that far....

Date: 2006/11/27 08:18:16, Link
Author: k.e
.......some conspiracy theorists have speculated, based on the discharged-Marine look sported by O'Leary, that they are one and the same person.

Well .......that IS a tantalizing thought.

But how did DssT suddenly become articulate in glib and  an expert on the psychology of cats with apartmentia?

And find the time to write about it in "Sky High" a weekly review of androgynous architects archnemisis... Archean absolutists overarching anal meanderings on alchemy and astrology while pandering to idiot DSSt is NOT repeat NOT a dyke even if he/she wished he was.

Because if he was, he would have had JB and CK up against a wall with her wicked wicked ways.

He is of course now famous for FAILING to do that .....despite all the groveling a retired boot licking grunt with a Dell pin in his lapel and a 2 IP's is capable of doing.

Class all the way is Oberdumkofundpocketpeckerpuller Herr Dastard.

As he bends over the motor bay of his evil water borne traveling contraption twiddling his mustache he imagines himself to be the Czar of anti evolutionary mushrooms each with an eye patch and a loaded gun hidden in their cockpits.

At least they don't say no or turn out to be boys when he puts the hard word on them.

But seriously are these guys out to paint DT as a kind of ID saint, all hat and no cattle?
I thought that was our job.

Date: 2006/11/28 22:33:55, Link
Author: k.e
Nicely done phonon.

Chance worshiping materialist and evolutionist sleeper agent DT pulls the rug out from under the miracle worshiping supernaturalists.

He does leave room for the big ol' craft worker, presumably dressed in dungarees and oil covered boots with a pencil behind his ear and boxes of nano bits which he digs around in to Lego a working cell into existence.

This autodidact engine expert clearly intelligent enough to be the universes' first proto biologist could if he really wanted to, design a miniature self replicating nanobot IF HIS SAT scores, taken years after leaving the school of divine light, were fabulously high.

It is just obvious  that the smart engine builder could make anything .......given a slab of agar, some cartilage, a pen and a napkin he would come up with engine  ears.

No self organization; no billions of years of failed attempts, false starts and *oxygen producing slime; no dead ends; no environmental input; no happy accidents; no almost complete wipe outs. A 747 straight out of the box.

So when it comes to recognizing design an engineer seems to be the expert with the most “weight”, right? As an engineer and patent maven in the computer and factory automation fields it is my professional opinion that the molecular machinery resident in every living cell is the product of intelligent agency. It’s inconceivable the source could be anything else. -ds

......ooops DT is talking about reverse engineering.

Walking backwards toward samtsirhC DT?

Harvard Museum of Natural History exhibit takes life back to tiny roots

Date: 2006/11/28 23:04:47, Link
Author: k.e
Here is another Fundy clanger.
For all their 'anti-authoritarian' claims they enforce a despotic regime of subservience and repression on their followers.

Under the guise of 'family values' the women are forced barefoot into the kitchen and turned into baby farms while their homophobic menfolk snort speed and play hide the sausage with other boys.

The children under the threat of banishment must conform or be sent to the emotional gulags.

This was in no way a repudiation of free (protestant) Christianity, but a repudiation of authoritarianism and totalitarianism in the name of Christ.

That Christ AFD prays to, is a dictator.

The real reason for Ben Franklin not getting his cheeky prayer motion up, was because the bible thumpers knew that it didn't matter one whit if they got god on the books, the whole purpose of the game was mammon and time costs money, they crumbled immediately and signed up.

Date: 2006/11/29 07:08:11, Link
Author: k.e
I get it skeptic .....all comedians are racist if all homophobic bi-sexual anti-Darwinian  mega church pastors who preach gay hate are leaders of hypocritical Christians.

If I asked you if 'you wanna kiss'
1.Do you turn the other cheek.
2.Call up your church and see if you can get time off for bad behavior
3.Ask if I like it better with Xtal.
4.Check with the wife.
5.See if the kids (all 5 of them)want to leave town.
6.Call the President and push to ban gay marriage.
7.Collect more money on Sundays and see if you can keep it going for 3 years.
8.Threaten Richard Dawkins with a big red SUV.
(We could always ask Dawkins if Rev. Ted had bad breath, he WAS in his face)
9. Deny you are descended from monkeys, or had sex with THAT MAN)
10.Demonstrate the holier than thou politically conservative bibliolating  readers of Myth  are morally bankrupt and deserved to Lose an election.

Date: 2006/11/29 07:31:34, Link
Author: k.e
Quote (Jake @ Nov. 29 2006,03:46)

It bears repeating that the default view of ID for this list is the position hammered out over a fifteen year period starting with Phil Johnson and moving through to Behe, myself, Wells, Meyer, Nelson, Pearcey, Gonzalez, Richards, and O'Leary. Any of you who have a fundamental problem with that position need to consider carefully whether you should be on this list at all.

 Best wishes,
 Bill Dembski

So OK, thats a lot clearer. The default ID position is the one espoused by Behe, a Catholic old-earther, Wells, a Moonie, and Nelson, a YEC...

Im confused.

Yeah so am I only have to be a half assed journalist to hammer out a position statement for a PR company...oh wait a minute ......was he talking about Biology?

Date: 2006/11/29 07:36:19, Link
Author: k.e
Do you actually get real French cheese in the US?

Le Freedom Framage :>

Date: 2006/11/29 10:59:31, Link
Author: k.e
There's also the minor issue that DT has no professional engineering experience (or education).  There is no forum on Earth (except UD) where he would be accepted as an expert on design or the practise of engineering.

Does he qualify to be a full (degree qualified and professional standing) member of the IEEE?

Don't forget there are countless anti-gravity machines, rungless ladders, bottomless ashtrays and zero energy machines patented so without discounting his contribution to the advancement of the patent count it is appropriate that the one other forum where his ideas are given merit IS the patent office.

Date: 2006/11/29 11:16:03, Link
Author: k.e
Quote of the day
by William Dembski on November 28th, 2006 · 8 Comments
“You measure a democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.” — Who said it and how does it apply to the ID-evolution controversy?

Well Dembski missed his chance in Dover, he could have attained ID martyrhood and immortality at the same time, by screaming his polemic in the judges face and being restrained in a chair by chains for the duration of the trial (as Hoffman was)........oh hang on....he ran away.....or the self appointed defenders of religion (No Monkey business Moore & Co) decided he was too religious.

Pity would have been one of the most hilarious cross examinations in history.

Date: 2006/11/29 19:53:45, Link
Author: k.e
So how is your church audit going AFD?

I'll bet they can't get anything past you

Did you make sure the auditors were tame?

What do you tell them when they dig up the bodies, so to speak?

Your skillful denial and obfuscation makes the Mafia look like a bunch amateurs.

Have you personally benefited from any of the huge checks you pastor has written for himself?

Or are you doing it for free?

Don't worry AFD I don't expect an honest answer.

It's a pity there isn't someone in your church who won't take you and your cohorts on.

How many years would you get for embezzlement or assisting corruption?

Then AFD you would find like minded thinkers, everyone in jail is innocent by their own account.

Date: 2006/11/29 20:20:14, Link
Author: k.e
Quote (Freelurker @ Nov. 29 2006,19:15)
I don't understand why we had all of that discussion of the quality of DaveScot's engineering background. If a biologist were to expound on the engineering feats of von Daniken's ancient astronauts, I wouldn't be wondering if that person was really a biologist.

It's quite common for software programers, technicians, trades people, craft workers to call themselves Engineers whereas a Biologist must be degree qualified to be called a Biologist.

Along with all his petite bourgeois bluster and underwhelming achievements, DT remember seems to think biology is akin to stamp collecting and pipetting.

Date: 2006/11/30 09:01:51, Link
Author: k.e
Yes, the social workers came and inspected our home and they did all the background checks and we were approved with flying colors.

Sure AFD....just to be safe, get them to check your posts here.

I can only imagine what whoppers you spun when talking to them.

Like I said you make lying a virtue and would put to shame the worlds very best.

Date: 2006/11/30 09:12:23, Link
Author: k.e