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  Topic: Biology is for wimps, It's not rocket science, after all< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
argystokes



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:17   

Recently, some enlightened denizens of the net have informed the tards here at AtBC that biology is an easy science, not like them smarty pants sciences like math and physics. Since they were unable to come up with any kind of evidence supporting this notion, I've taken it upon myself to do it for them. However, having just a BS in Biology, I'm not sure how to read this data. From http://192.58.150.33/statistics/trends/reports/mcat2003.pdf we see that we bio majors are almost as stupid as premeds:

OK, so there are lots of explanations for this data. Bio majors are stoopidder, biology programs don't prepare their students for the critical though required by the MCATs, and perhaps some more subtle explanations for the data. This thread is for exploring the possible reasons for the data above.

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:26   

Off topic slightly, am I the only one amused by the fact that premed majors came in dead last in the MCAT sweepstakes, even behind English majors?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:30   

More detail:

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/sendscores/exofscores.pdf

The raw means aren't as good as having the granular data. Meta-data does not lend itself to analysis so easily.

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Louis



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:31   

Data looks good to me. Biologists is dumb therefore evolution is false. Hallelujahgobble praise the lord.

Louis

P.S. Oh wait, did I get that right?

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Bye.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:34   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,16:26)
Off topic slightly, am I the only one amused by the fact that premed majors came in dead last in the MCAT sweepstakes, even behind English majors?

The pen is mightier than the scalpel.

And before you get excited, the space between "pen" and "is" is deliberate.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:35   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 04 2007,14:30)
More detail:

http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/sendscores/exofscores.pdf

The raw means aren't as good as having the granular data. Meta-data does not lend itself to analysis so easily.

Yeah, but that means that we can make up any explanation that we like. Isn't it much more fun to not be constrained by things like evidence?
__
I have no idea what a premed curriculum looks like. At my school, if someone replied to the question "What's your major" with "Premed," you knew they were an idiot, because there was no premed major at my school. They were the folks who hadn't figured out yet that they might want to major in some sort of science, likely biology or biochemistry, in order to learn the necessary info for entrance into med school.

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:37   

Quote (argystokes @ April 04 2007,16:17)
Recently, some enlightened denizens of the net have informed the tards here at AtBC that biology is an easy science, not like them smarty pants sciences like math and physics. Since they were unable to come up with any kind of evidence supporting this notion, I've taken it upon myself to do it for them. However, having just a BS in Biology, I'm not sure how to read this data.

I think the major factor for the low biology score for the biology majors is the sheer number of doctor hopefuls (including many who have no idea of where they stand relative to their peers) who feel that it is their best major to have a chance of doing well on the MCAT. †However, a mediocre student is a mediocre student no matter which discipline they go into. †

Some universities have "premed" as a major. †Ours does not, so the student must choose biology, chemistry, etc. †All majors who wish to be doctors take more than the minimum biology courses.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, youíre taking refuge in what we see in the world." †PaV

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stevestory



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:37   

The MCAT score by physics undergrads has nothing to do with them being smarter. I have tutored the physics section of the MCAT. There is an absurd amount of physics on the MCAT, way more than there should be, and it has basically nothing to do with practicing medicine. I would prefer they ditched the whole section, and replaced it with something relevent, like biology or chemistry. Set up the way it is, physics Bachelors like me can make $25-35/hour tutoring people in something they'll never need.

Curious that economics undergrads beat math undergrads in every category.

   
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:48   

I'm not sure it's a great idea for people like Dave Scot and FTK to always go on about how easy biology is. If it's that easy and they still constantly get it wrong, wouldn't they be better off whining about how hard biology is?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Reciprocating Bill



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:52   

Seems to me that looking at undergraduate scores is not likely to be particularly availing. At minimum, one would be interested in scores for persons actually working on doctorates, or who have completed doctorates, in their related fields.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

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Louis



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,16:52   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,23:48)
I'm not sure it's a great idea for people like Dave Scot and FTK to always go on about how easy biology is. If it's that easy and they still constantly get it wrong, wouldn't they be better off whining about how hard biology is?

A point I believe I've made very clearly.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Ftk



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:03   

Hmmm...no wonder there are so many engineers who support ID.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:08   

Quote (Ftk @ April 04 2007,17:03)
Hmmm...no wonder there are so many engineers who support ID.

Yes, and only atheists support evolution, right?

Hey, FTK there's a whole bunch of unanswered questions waiting for you on 'your' thread, why don't you head over there and dig in?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Louis



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:09   

Quote (Ftk @ April 05 2007,00:03)
Hmmm...no wonder there are so many engineers who support ID.

DING DING DING DING DING!

Ok who had 11pm for first IDCist smarmy comment about engineers being at top of MCAT list? Anyone? Anyone?

Louis

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Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:17   

Quote (Louis @ April 04 2007,16:52)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,23:48)
I'm not sure it's a great idea for people like Dave Scot and FTK to always go on about how easy biology is. If it's that easy and they still constantly get it wrong, wouldn't they be better off whining about how hard biology is?

A point I believe I've made very clearly.

Louis

Louis, I promise I'll credit you in the published version.  :p

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
argystokes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:28   

Quote (Ftk @ April 04 2007,15:03)
Hmmm...no wonder there are so many engineers who support ID.

Yeah, and how many bioengineers do you have on your precious lists?

And weren't you the one complaining about too much snark and not enough science around here? Let's hear the analysis, FtK!

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
JohnW



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:42   

Hmm... no wonder there are so many engineers (and physicists, and mathematicians, and biologists, and economists, and...) who think ID is a load of bollocks.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Albatrossity2



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:50   

I agree with Tracy Hamilton - the number of premeds in any biology dept (including mine) can bring down the averages. And just look at the numbers; the number of biology majors in this sample is 5-6 times the number of any other major.

And why are we looking at MCAT scores? If Egnor is any indicator, MDs are not very intelligent. This sample population surely contains lots of students who might be as motivated by a high-paying career as they are by the thirst for knowledge... Any data on GRE scores?

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
† † † † † † † † † † † † - Pattiann Rogers

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:51   

My wife has a degree in electrical engineering, another in biomedical engineering. Those, plus zoology and wildlife and fisheries sciences. I already knew she was smarter than me, though.

Oh, and when Diane and I went to the Edward Max/Duane Gish debate, while Gish was galloping, she finally couldn't restrain herself any longer, stood and shouted, "You're a liar!"

There's one engineer for you who is not a Salem Hypothesis data point, fersure.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:56   

http://www.aceviper.net/acevipe....estion3

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
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JohnW



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,17:59   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 04 2007,17:50)
If Egnor is any indicator, MDs are not very intelligent.

Now that's below the belt.

Given your sample size (1), I'm not convinced you can make this inference. †Whatever the profession, a handful of eejits always manage to slip through the net. †I work with a lot of MDs. †They seem pretty smart to me.

Don't get me started on psychologists, though.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,18:01   

WILL THERE EVER BE A BOY BORN WHO CAN SWIM FASTER THAN A SHARK?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,18:01   

Richard, that site is hilarious!

Quote

You should not worry however; The famous Nobel Prize Winner Francis Crick (The man who found the structure for DNA) had only an IQ of 115! So, with hard and dedicated work it is possible to compensate for a lack in intelligence.


Yeah, like Crick had a "lack of intelligence" to compensate for.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,18:11   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 04 2007,16:01)
WILL THERE EVER BE A BOY BORN WHO CAN SWIM FASTER THAN A SHARK?

I could catch a monkey!

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,18:13   

This is amusing, too:

Quote

No one knows who is the smartest person that ever lived, that is for sure. But some psychologists believe that William James Sidis reached the maximum capacity possible for a human. The same may apply for eg., the seer of visions, Emanuel Swedenborg, who was so intelligent that he turned mad in the later part of his life.


So, you eggheads, be careful!:angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,18:18   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,18:13)
This is amusing, too:

 
Quote

No one knows who is the smartest person that ever lived, that is for sure. But some psychologists believe that William James Sidis reached the maximum capacity possible for a human. The same may apply for eg., the seer of visions, Emanuel Swedenborg, who was so intelligent that he turned mad in the later part of his life.


So, you eggheads, be careful! † :angry:

TWO LATE FOUR DEMBSKI AND DAVESCOT

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,19:20   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,15:26)

Off topic slightly, am I the only one amused by the fact that premed majors came in dead last in the MCAT sweepstakes, even behind English majors?
*Snork* Huh? "Amused"? Is that my cue?

You dissin' English majors, Arden? *Wields indexing handbook threateningly* †:D

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

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"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,19:31   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,16:26)
Off topic slightly, am I the only one amused by the fact that premed majors came in dead last in the MCAT sweepstakes, even behind English majors?

Nope.  After all, DI has a big long list of doctors who all say evolution is worng, and that you don't need any evolution to do medicine.

So we already knew they were 'tards.

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
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The Ghost of Paley



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,21:09   

Here's an interesting study that threatens to rock our world.... :D:D:D

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Richardthughes



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,21:19   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ April 04 2007,21:09)
Here's an interesting study that threatens to rock our world.... :D †:D †:D

Looks naive, multicolinearity issues with education...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Henry J



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2007,22:48   

How can biology be easier than other sciences, anyway? Biologists have millions of species to deal with, where chemists have only 117 elements (last I heard), and physicists have 4 basic types of particles that seem to not be composites (or higher energy states or antimatter equivalent), of other particles.

Henry

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,01:05   

Quote (Kristine @ April 04 2007,19:20)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2007,15:26)

Off topic slightly, am I the only one amused by the fact that premed majors came in dead last in the MCAT sweepstakes, even behind English majors?
*Snork* Huh? "Amused"? Is that my cue?

You dissin' English majors, Arden? *Wields indexing handbook threateningly* †:D

Hey, I was a linguistics 'major', and I suspect that would have been every bit as helpful for passing the MCATs as an English major.  :p

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Louis



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,03:04   

Ah but Henry, biologists don't have millions of species (unless you are willing to grant chemists billions of uncountable billions of MOLECULES) they have one (or possibly 3) universal common ancestor.

QED Biologists is dumb, evolution is false (or true for the sake of proving them dumb), Hallelujahgobble Praise be to Jebus.

Louis

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Bye.

  
JohnW



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,10:27   

How can biology be difficult when everything we need to know about it is written in the book of Genesis?  Must be easy if just reading a few pages gives you the expertise to refute Dawkins, Gould, Mayr et al.

The same argument applies to the likes of astronomy, geology and history.  If we want a difficult subject, we need to come up with something not in the Bible.  Betting on the horses, smoking crack or eating cheesy poofs, for example.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Albatrossity2



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,11:15   

Quote (JohnW @ April 04 2007,17:59)
 
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 04 2007,17:50)
If Egnor is any indicator, MDs are not very intelligent.

Now that's below the belt.

Given your sample size (1), I'm not convinced you can make this inference.  Whatever the profession, a handful of eejits always manage to slip through the net.  I work with a lot of MDs.  They seem pretty smart to me.

Yeah, that was below the belt. Doctors can be pretty smart; my postdoc advisor was an M.D., and he was one of the smartest guys I ever met.

In thinking more about those data, it helps to remember that these are scores from the MCAT. Everybody who takes that test is, by definition, a pre-med, even if their major is biology, or engineering, or even English. And as we all know, even if most doctors are intelligent, lots of pre-meds are not. I have taught thousands of undergrads in my 26 years as a biology professor, and I have run across lots of pre-meds who I hope never get into medical school. If they do, I hope that neither I nor any member of my family ever have to be a patient in their care.

Second thing to remember is that this sort of standardized test is good for some evaluations, and not good for others. In general, from my experience, engineers (and engineering majors) tend to be very good at standardized tests (probably for lots of reasons). But standardized tests are not necessarily good for predicting success in more open disciplines, like chemistry or biology. I chaired our graduate admissions committee for many years, and I can guarantee that there is little correlation between an applicant's GRE scores and their eventual success as a biological scientist. Like the MCAT, the GRE doesn't measure some critical parameters, like the ability to put in long hours at the lab bench without going postal. Honestly, we lose more grad students because of the fact that they are unable to handle the frustration of doing basic research, repeating experiments, having experiments come out badly because of equipment or reagent problems, getting infections in their cell cultures, or overlooking some critical control. No test will measure your ability to handle that!

And no test can truly test critical thinking at the level needed for scientific research. That requires gleaning facts and methods from dozens of papers, synthesizing them into a useful experiment, and then thinking about the results (which may not be exactly the results you hoped for) in a way that generates new knowledge. Then you get to repeat it. That's tough sledding. And generally not required for MDs, unless they go into clinical or other research.

So no, I'd say that biologists are not "wimps", but I'd broaden that to say that any research scientist (chemistry, physics, geology, math etc.) probably deserves a lot of respect. Folks like FtK or DaveScot, who think that simply because they have biological functions like coughing or farting or seeing or reproducing that they understand biology at some deep level, are simply uninformed.

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
† † † † † † † † † † † † - Pattiann Rogers

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,11:37   

Quote
Folks like FtK or DaveScot, who think that simply because they have biological functions like coughing or farting or seeing or reproducing that they understand biology at some deep level, are simply uninformed.


Well put. This problem actually has an exact parallel in linguistics. A huge amount of nonsense about language gets written all the time by uninformed hobbyists (newspaper and magazine columnists are especially guilty of this),much more so than with most sciences. I've always been convinced that since everyone talks and has a language, that means that certain kinds of untrained armchair scholars are much more comfortable assuming that they're as qualifed as anyone else in the world to make Grand Statements About How Language Works. I mean, isn't any English speaker equally qualified to talk about how English is 'the hardest language in the world' or how 'English comes from Latin'?  ???

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
JohnW



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Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,11:49   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 05 2007,11:15)
In thinking more about those data, it helps to remember that these are scores from the MCAT. Everybody who takes that test is, by definition, a pre-med, even if their major is biology, or engineering, or even English. And as we all know, even if most doctors are intelligent, lots of pre-meds are not. I have taught thousands of undergrads in my 26 years as a biology professor, and I have run across lots of pre-meds who I hope never get into medical school. If they do, I hope that neither I nor any member of my family ever have to be a patient in their care.

More broadly, we should remember that these are, at best, anecdata.  We don't know whether the people taking the test are representative (are economics majors who apply for med school typical of all economics graduates?), and we don't know the relationship between the skill-set being tested for and generic "smartness".  Even if we were satisfied that these were reliable samples being plausibly tested, we'd need to know more about the distributions of scores before we could decide whether the between-group differences were meaningful.

One of the joys of being a statistician is people asking me for help turning a scrap of paper like this into publication-quality results.  I usually hide under my desk or pretend to be French.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Albatrossity2



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Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,12:08   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 05 2007,11:37)
I've always been convinced that since everyone talks and has a language, that means that certain kinds of untrained armchair scholars are much more comfortable assuming that they're as qualifed as anyone else in the world to make Grand Statements About How Language Works.

And of course, one excellent example of this would be the aforementioned DaveScot's "Portuguese moment" on another thread in this forum...

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
† † † † † † † † † † † † - Pattiann Rogers

   
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,12:13   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 05 2007,12:08)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 05 2007,11:37)
I've always been convinced that since everyone talks and has a language, that means that certain kinds of untrained armchair scholars are much more comfortable assuming that they're as qualifed as anyone else in the world to make Grand Statements About How Language Works.

And of course, one excellent example of this would be the aforementioned DaveScot's "Portuguese moment" on another thread in this forum...

Different Dave. The 'Portuguese moment' was actually the accomplishment of Dave Hawkins AKA 'AFDave', a retired Air Force whatever and legendarily boneheaded and tenacious Young Earth Creationist. He had a YEC thread here for a year before Steve pulled the plug in an act of much-needed euthanasia.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
slpage



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Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,14:59   

Then there is the issue that nobody has touched on yet...

Perhaps those scoring well on ther MCAT are simply good at taking standardized tests?

I find that standardized tests like the MCAT, SATs, and even GREs are fairly poor indicators of success.  Sure, they have a role in assessment, but I've seen plenty of people who, for example, maxed (or very nearly maxed)  the MCAT have to take remedial courses in medical school - I know, I used to have to teach some of them.

I couldn't help but notive FTK's idiotic little quip.  Maybe she should check this out..

Not that she will, of course - she gets her info from the Disco liars for Christ.

  
Steviepinhead



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(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,15:16   

Ack!

I started to see myself in Arden's "amateur" linguists comment.

Hope I don't really come across as quite that clueless/deluded when I venture into an area that interests me but about which I know much too little...

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,15:19   

Quote (slpage @ April 05 2007,14:59)
I couldn't help but notive FTK's idiotic little quip.  Maybe she should check this out..

Not that she will, of course - she gets her info from the Disco liars for Christ.

Actually, she did check in there and made one of her standard inane arguments (evolution and atheism go hand in hand) in comment 123.

One of the unanswered questions that I asked her re this correlation was "So what?" Are atheists somehow lesser human beings than theists?  And are all theists created equal; how would she feel about an evolution-denier who worshiped Odin, or Shiva? Or the Rev. Moon???

Inquiring minds still want to know!

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
† † † † † † † † † † † † - Pattiann Rogers

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,15:20   

Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 05 2007,10:16)
Ack!

I started to see myself in Arden's "amateur" linguists comment.

Hope I don't really come across as quite that clueless/deluded when I venture into an area that interests me but about which I know much too little...

Don't put yourself down, just wing it, like I do :)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,15:43   

Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 05 2007,15:16)
Ack!

I started to see myself in Arden's "amateur" linguists comment.

Hope I don't really come across as quite that clueless/deluded when I venture into an area that interests me but about which I know much too little...

Hey, don't sweat it, you're well informed. You've actually been around linguists. You wouldn't believe the shit you hear from people like, say, William Safire. †:O

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,18:37   

Quote (Alan Fox @ April 05 2007,14:20)

Quote (Steviepinhead @ April 05 2007,10:16)
Ack!

I started to see myself in Arden's "amateur" linguists comment.

Hope I don't really come across as quite that clueless/deluded when I venture into an area that interests me but about which I know much too little...

Don't put yourself down, just wing it, like I do :)

I'm hip [stop that sniggering] to winging it. :) †(Now I've done it.)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2007,20:03   

I think Albatross has hit the nail on the head.  All those taking the MCAT, except that rare idiot who just wants to see how they'd do, has an interest in medicine.  So given that the degree designation becomes interesting.  One of the key factors relating to Med School acceptance is (drumroll) GPA.  So the vast majority of students are going to choose the curricullum that would most lend itself to a high GPA.  I think that is what we see with the really advanced students choosing the more demanding majors and doing well because they can handle it.  Of course, it could be that biology departments also prefer pre-meds major in biology and steer them that way.  This would also skew the data downwards.  It all becomes anecdotal at this point but I know where my bias lies, lol.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,05:40   

Arden,

Quote
I've always been convinced that since everyone talks and has a language, that means that certain kinds of untrained armchair scholars are much more comfortable assuming that they're as qualifed as anyone else in the world to make Grand Statements About How Language Works. I mean, isn't any English speaker equally qualified to talk about how English is 'the hardest language in the world' or how 'English comes from Latin'?


But, but, but English IS the hardest language in the world, it's the reason foreigners are so stupid. The Daily Mail told me that. And English DOES come from Latin. My teacher told me that.

Anyway, all languages originated at the Tower of Babel.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,08:00   

Quote (Louis @ April 06 2007,05:40)
Arden,

   
Quote
I've always been convinced that since everyone talks and has a language, that means that certain kinds of untrained armchair scholars are much more comfortable assuming that they're as qualifed as anyone else in the world to make Grand Statements About How Language Works. I mean, isn't any English speaker equally qualified to talk about how English is 'the hardest language in the world' or how 'English comes from Latin'?


But, but, but English IS the hardest language in the world, it's the reason foreigners are so stupid. The Daily Mail told me that. And English DOES come from Latin. My teacher told me that.

Anyway, all languages originated at the Tower of Babel.

Louis

What's so hard about English? Anyone can understand it.

It's well known, of course, that if you just speak LOUDLY and V-E-R-Y  S-L-O-W-L-Y, "them furners" will understand you just fine.  If not, just continue to speak ever more loudly and slowly - eventually, they'll understand you.   :p

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,08:03   

Snoeman,

Ah I see you are an ADVANCED linguist!

Louis

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Bye.

  
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,09:12   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ April 05 2007,15:19)
Quote (slpage @ April 05 2007,14:59)
I couldn't help but notive FTK's idiotic little quip. †Maybe she should check this out..

Not that she will, of course - she gets her info from the Disco liars for Christ.

Actually, she did check in there and made one of her standard inane arguments (evolution and atheism go hand in hand) in comment 123.

One of the unanswered questions that I asked her re this correlation was "So what?" Are atheists somehow lesser human beings than theists? †And are all theists created equal; how would she feel about an evolution-denier who worshiped Odin, or Shiva? Or the Rev. Moon???

Inquiring minds still want to know!

Yes, I remembered having seen her silly quip over there after I posted this.

So irrelevant and insignificant was her post there that it slipped my mind....

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,09:28   

I AM A DOCTOR.  I took the MCAT a long, long time ago as a biology major.  I slam dunked that bastard.  I left it dead on the dance floor.  Even the essay portion of the exam was TOO easy for me.  My score was friggin AWESOME!  I personally brought the average score for biology majors up from 7.3 to 8.6.  Oh, I did the same thing for the USMLE Step 1 exam.  In your faces, MOFOS!

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 06 2007,10:37   

I don't think MCAT scores are a particularly good metric. The old GRE (i.e., with the analytical section) would be better.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 07 2007,16:52   

From my experience, anything Statistics-related is also pretty g-loaded. I've known lots of people who've struck me as smart and then ace the course, even if they hate their other math classes. And yet people who have trouble with analytical thinking always seem to have to fall back on rote memorisation of the procedures, and then complain about the class. Don't know why....might be going from formula to drawing to table that gets them.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
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