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Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,01:45   

has somebody considered condensing  that thread into a searchable index yet?

it's actually been a valuable reference source for me; Dave has done more to inform those I know who were clueless about creobots than any other single source, even AIG and ARN.

I get a lot of "ahh, now i get it", followed by the electronic equivalent of eyerolls quite a lot.

seriously, this IS a valuable resource of a sort; almost a work of art.

it should be indexed and preserved, somehow.

I might even *gulp* volunteer to give it a shot if I can find some kind of program that will make some sort of categorical sense out of it.

ideas on categorization and filtration, anyone?

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"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,01:55   

I think it might be a valuable item. Not sure how you'd do the preservation, technically. You'd probably have to download the 'All' link on the first thread, to a file, do the same for the second thread, and then take a look at the HTML and manually splice the two together in Wordpad or something. And I don't know the first thing about the copyright issues involved, but I doubt any of the participants would mind their words being put to greater use, and it might be that Wesley owns all the contributions anyway.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,02:02   

Quote
and it might be that Wesley owns all the contributions anyway.


hmm, never thought about content rights on a public blog before.

do newspapers own the rights to letters sent to the editor and published in the opinion section?

*shrug*

anywho, I'm sure Wes, given his interest in cataloging UD threads previous to the hissy fit the 'tard threw, would be more than encouraging of this endeavor.

another question:

best to filter out repetitious posts, and have merely representative ones, or leave it as a "complete work of art"?

best to reindex via topic, so spread out posts regarding the same topic end up being referenced together (like the endless refrain of Dave's portuguese "arguments"), or leave the structure in it's current haphazard state, with just sectional reference instead?

any and all opinions more than welcome; anything to delay the monumental task of actually tackling the thing.

;)

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Crabby Appleton



Posts: 250
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,02:09   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Jan. 05 2007,02:02)
Quote
and it might be that Wesley owns all the contributions anyway.


hmm, never thought about content rights on a public blog before.

do newspapers own the rights to letters sent to the editor and published in the opinion section?

*shrug*

anywho, I'm sure Wes, given his interest in cataloging UD threads previous to the hissy fit the 'tard threw, would be more than encouraging of this endeavor.

another question:

best to filter out repetitious posts, and have merely representative ones, or leave it as a "complete work of art"?

best to reindex via topic, so spread out posts regarding the same topic end up being referenced together (like the endless refrain of Dave's portuguese "arguments"), or leave the structure in it's current haphazard state, with just sectional reference instead?

any and all opinions more than welcome; anything to delay the monumental task of actually tackling the thing.

;)

Editing would be a mistake IMHO. Only the Raw & Unabridged Taxi Driver thread will do. The problem as I see it is how to include all the links. Not a task I'm willing to undertake.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,07:29   

We (by which I mean you) could set access to it on a membership/pay per view basis like a scientific journal.

The science based posts of Eric and others could be say charged at $0.01 a view, not because they aren't worth vastly more but because we want them cheap and easy to access.

The drivel of AFDave could be charged at $10 a view, because everyone knows you have to pay over the odds to see the sideshow freaks!

The money made could go to the cause. Vive la revolution.

Louis

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Bye.

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,08:28   

Well, the thread can be locked, stuck to the top of the message board and renamed.

Or it could be archived and linked in a second thread that could also be created, with a significant number of less relevant posts removed  :)

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If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,08:57   

Quote
best to filter out repetitious posts, and have merely representative ones, or leave it as a "complete work of art"?

Complete work, definitely. A good portion of afdave's intractable sciencsh was his ability to ignore.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,09:24   

Yes, complete work.

Index, don't edit.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,12:02   

The name of this blog is "Antievolution: the Critic's Resource." I cannot think of a better resource than Dave's threads for those who wish to demonstrate just how intellectually vacuous creationism really is.

I think both of Dave's threads should be renamed, to something like "Creationism's intellectual bankrupcty, Part I and Part II," with the subhead "AF Dave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis," and then stickied. If someone (possibly me?) wants to take the time to index the two threads (with headings such as "GULO," "Portuguese," "Genetic Richness," etc.), it would be nice to have a separate thread (or maybe on the last page of each thread) that just has permalinks to the relevant sections.

Comments? Questions?

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,12:36   

I say YES!

It would be great to have this monument of YEC Arrogance and Insincerity preserved- and the permalinks would come in handy, if only to display it more easily. A mausoleum for a dead way of thinking.

(Plus, if dave decides to take his gibberish to another blog, it would be good to easily show to the commenters there what he had really said and done here.  :p )

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A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,14:08   

I write fairly often on search positioning for Google, and I have a couple ideas:

In terms of future searchers online, we want to make sure whatever pages we place the thread (or a downloadable pdf, etc.) have the keywords prominently in the title tag of the page as well as in headlines on the page.

In an online version it would be helpful (again search wise) if major keyword related topics were also given their own pages.  Most forum and blog software does that automatically, but I am thinking more about if we place the material as searchable or as a download.

Some keyword phrases we should target should be:

Dave Hawkins
Kids 4 Truth
Answers in Genesis
Institute for Creation Research

That way when people are looking for these topics, this thread (or a portion of it) will pop out.

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,14:09   

I think renaming would be akin to editing, and should be avoided.  The thread will serve best if left entirely intact and unmodified, though indexing it for easier searching would certainly be good.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,14:43   

Gahhh..this is irritating because it reminds me that I had already begun all this and I lost it when I had a malfunction with my 'puter and didn't think about copying it before wiping my drive.

I'm pretty familiar with the first part of Dave's thread, though , so I'll work with indexing it in my spare time. The problem is really in the amount of leaping about and redundancy in the text, when Dave is jumping from topic to topic and others are bringing in new stuff or referring to older topics previously mentioned.

What would be near-optimal would be an indexed  full-length version and a compact outlined reference that has the major topics/links/papers covered as well. There's some really good research on isochron/whole rock, the Canyon crap, etc, that was compiled, but it's scattered about the threads. In addition, later I'd like to check it against the T.O. stuff to add to that material.  

so:
1) Compile/index the major topics and hundreds of asides. Indexing can be a bitch, especially if it comes down to minutia -- and I know I've bitched plenty about works/books with shoddy indices. Pisses me off.
2) A compact edition for easy use.

I'll be working on the first part of the thread, and to prevent redundancy in work, I'll pass it on to whoever wants to check it over, upon completion. Uh, but it's gonna take me weeks, if not months, when I get back...we all have other crap to do.

First things first, I'll try to think of a more detailed plan of attack on this stuff. Help needed -- post suggestions!!

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,14:52   

Can't we work together on this using an online source? (I'm thinking the MS Office thingie online--whatever it's called?)

Then we could all work a little and index the whole 11K posts in very little time.

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,15:25   

Well...getting getting people to work together on a goal that has little PERSONAL reward is ...um...difficult.

I'm willing to work on this. Scary says he is. Who else volunteers to take a chunk?

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,16:58   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 05 2007,16:25)
I'm willing to work on this. Scary says he is.

Um, yeah, about that...I was seeing myself more in a management/consultant position.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,17:21   

Quote
Who else volunteers to take a chunk?


hmm, I'm glad my statement of volunteerism was ignored.

:)

why don't you repeat what you did before, then when we get together at the end of the month, I might be able to add something more to it?

I was considering the possibility of making it into an online access database that can be searched by tag and bring up relevant posts and responses by date; but that would require going through each post and adding hidden tags appropriate to the subject matter and type of argument (category), and/or specific example of fallacious logic contained in the post.  Not hard, but certainly tedious.

However, I'm not tied to any particular approach myself, and it sounds like it might just be best left as a simple searchable sticky at this point.

I really think publishable papers could be written on the behavior of AFDave in that thread, and the main thing at this point is just to make sure it gets preserved in some fashion.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,17:43   

I'm willing to help out. Which would, of course, involve a lot of re-reading the thread. Which is always pretty entertaining.

I'll give some thought to a way of doing it, but I don't have any great ideas yet, so we probably need to put our heads together.

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,18:04   

Google notebook is amazing if the original is not deleted. You can have section headings (LIke HLA, Portuguese etc) each note contains a link to the original you can edit the notes with keywords for quick searching etc. I just did an experiment on the section headers thing and it's easy.

I did that with the portuguese thing because I was so shocked that he was being so crazy and claiming victory.

LInk here.

I was being selective so it's not so much use but as long as you note each post all you do is select and right click and say note this. very easy. Indexing would be harder by lots.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,18:08   

I'll pitch in on the clerical work, once more software-savvy minds have agreed on what should be done.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,19:04   

it might even be worthwhile to cross-index dave's thread to the Index of Creationist Claims, as I don't recall davey coming up with anything that wasn't essentially already there (uh, the origins of Portugeuse excluded of course).

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,19:48   

PORTUGUESE is a good example. Not only does it spread over ( as many people recall) many pages, each NUANCE within it has episodic significance.
You'll recall that AfDave made first ONE claim, then another in meaning, which was then made to be a historical third claim, then just a semantic one, then a phonetic one...there's shitloads of nuance there.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,19:54   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Jan. 05 2007,18:21)
Not hard, but certainly tedious.

11K posts at 2 minutes each is at least 400 labor hours (or labour hours for my friends across the pond.)

BOW BEFORE MY SUPERIOR MATHEMATIC INTELLECT!

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,20:25   

you're not helping the volunteer effort with numbers like that, accurate or no.

;)

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2007,21:01   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Jan. 05 2007,21:25)
you're not helping the volunteer effort with numbers like that, accurate or no.

;)


Ichthyic you were just in comfortable oblivion about the AFDave project--until it was too late.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,06:19   

We're talking about you, not to you, dingbat.

Your playpen world view argument, which is static and unchanging, makes any point you try to make obsolete before your sentence finishes.

The difference between yours and the evo view, which is far more dynamic and encompassing, allows asking 'what if' in a rational, objective and testable manner.

Introduce a genetic algorithm to sort 'Flying Blind AFD’s big day out' for the most coherence by subject or any value in argument/false logic or series of values such as scale of egregiousness in ignoring hard data etc. etc. and your suggestion reveals both  your stasis and your lack of imagination.

AFD because you can't see the power of genetic algorithms you will just have to take our word for it that what you suggested could be made real IF the ideas from the ToE were applied.

…oh were you trying to blind us with reason and logic…snicker.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,08:12   

I just replied to Dave over at the bathroom wall.  I don't know enough curse words to describe how I feel about him--I have never wanted to cuss someone out before.

Is it wrong to start drinking at 9:12am?

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,08:51   

Quote
Is it wrong to start drinking at 9:12am?
Yes! It would be wrong.
It would be allowing a completely irrelevant, ineffectual, nonentity to induce self-destructive behavior.

Not, of course, that I think there's any real, non-joking possibility that you're really about to hit the bottle. But now that ID/creationism is riding into the sunset, and the danger of the most fringy of the wing-nuts to influence anyone who's not already a lost cause approaches zero, the most satisfying experience they can aspire to is to piss you off.

Meditate on my sig:

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,09:07   

Quote (Russell @ Jan. 06 2007,09:51)
Yes! It would be wrong.
It would be allowing a completely irrelevant, ineffectual, nonentity to induce self-destructive behavior.

Not, of course, that I think there's any real, non-joking possibility that you're really about to hit the bottle. But now that ID/creationism is riding into the sunset, and the danger of the most fringy of the wing-nuts to influence anyone who's not already a lost cause approaches zero, the most satisfying experience they can aspire to is to piss you off.

Meditate on my sig:

Thanks Russell for keeping me in reality.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,11:19   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Jan. 05 2007,19:48)
PORTUGUESE is a good example. Not only does it spread over ( as many people recall) many pages, each NUANCE within it has episodic significance.
You'll recall that AfDave made first ONE claim, then another in meaning, which was then made to be a historical third claim, then just a semantic one, then a phonetic one...there's shitloads of nuance there.

And as I've pointed out before, the Portuguese thread is extremely enlightening as an example of how AFD argues when there is no defense of Biblical literalism involved at all. In that, uh, 'debate', there was no risk in Poor Dumb Dave going to the Warm Place from either position -- I don't think Genesis or Jeebus ever made any proclamations on Romance linguistics -- and yet his argumentation style was precisely the same as how he argues against evolution. So even when AFD's Immortal Soul isn't imperiled in any way, he still has the same skills of reasonable scientific argumentation as a 9-year-old of below-average intelligence.

I'm sure you guys who've had the stomach to pound AFD for the last 6 months can produce even better bon mots, but for me the definitive shark-jumping moment in the Portuguese thread -- the real money shot -- was when AFD proclaimed his data set was more reliable because it contained LESS data than the one I presented.

Ahhhh. Good times.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:01   

BTW, if you go over to AFDave's blog, airdave.blogspot.com, you'll find the following post:

Quote
Saturday, January 06, 2007

WESLEY ELSBERRY BANS CREATIONISTS



(snip)


For the record, I should say that Wesley deserves none of the blame for banning AFDave. I did it. He's not really banned, he's still able to post on the bathroom wall, but that's probably a mistake on my part. He needs to stop whining and get on with either presenting his thesis somewhere else, or getting a basic education and learning why his thesis is wrong.

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:06   

comments are open over at Dave's blog, if anyone's interested.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:27   

Quote
WESLEY ELSBERRY BANS CREATIONISTS


ROFLMAO.

perfect capper.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:30   

Quote
-- the real money shot -- was when AFD proclaimed his data set was more reliable because it contained LESS data than the one I presented.



that's Dave's definition of parsimony.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:36   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2007,14:01)
BTW, if you go over to AFDave's blog, airdave.blogspot.com, you'll find the following post:

   
Quote
Saturday, January 06, 2007

WESLEY ELSBERRY BANS CREATIONISTS




I'm sure Dave is very happy now. He's probably been impatiently waiting for us to ban him for almost a year, and was probably wondering what on earth the delay was. In fact, a quick banning was probably his primary goal when he first came here.

Now that he has his bogus martyrdom, I'm sure he's fulfilled. Just don't expect him to admit how long we let him post here before finally losing all patience with him. Wouldn't fit with his 'persecuted Christian' narrative.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:48   

Quote
I'm sure you guys who've had the stomach to pound AFD for the last 6 months can produce even better bon mots, but for me the definitive shark-jumping moment in the Portuguese thread -- the real money shot -- was when AFD proclaimed his data set was more reliable because it contained LESS data than the one I presented.

HA! But it was even dumber than that. He said his data set was more detailed than yours, even though your set contained all the information in his, plus more.

And having slogged through the entire thing, I would grant that that moment was certainly in the Top 5 (along with red dots, can/can't increase information, and drag racing continents. You could add a fifth, but that would make your list less detailed than mine).

EDIT: And since Dave's leveled the charge of quotemining, I'm sure he'll remove that ellipse from the quote at the beginning of the post, since he's such an honest guy.

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:55   

Quote (argystokes @ Jan. 06 2007,14:48)
 
Quote
I'm sure you guys who've had the stomach to pound AFD for the last 6 months can produce even better bon mots, but for me the definitive shark-jumping moment in the Portuguese thread -- the real money shot -- was when AFD proclaimed his data set was more reliable because it contained LESS data than the one I presented.

HA! But it was even dumber than that. He said his data set was more detailed than yours, even though your set contained all the information in his, plus more.


Ooh, you're right, I remember now. Detailed. That IS better, MUCH better!

 
Quote
And having slogged through the entire thing, I would grant that that moment was certainly in the Top 5 (along with red dots, can/can't increase information, and drag racing continents. You could add a fifth, but that would make your list less detailed than mine).

Oh my, how could I have forgotten that -- Dave adding his own red dots to the graph because his theory would look better that way -- THAT was his most transcendent moment here. As I recall, most of us took half an hour just to realize what he'd done, it was so implausible.

Does anyone think he ever surpassed that pinnacle?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,14:57   

No. "I bet there's a lot more data and it looks like this:" was pretty much AFDave at his AFDavest.

   
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,16:30   

And Steve, wasn't the tard graphic yours? THAT... that is why you are the moderator. Undoubtably the best moment on the thread.

**Edit** what kind of indexing is being proposed? what technology? DATABASE? etc?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,16:45   

Quote (BWE @ Jan. 06 2007,16:30)
And Steve, wasn't the tard graphic yours? THAT... that is why you are the moderator. Undoubtably the best moment on the thread.

I would suggest that two of Steve's most transcendent moments on the internet would be the TardGraph along with his scenario of William Dembski's imagined meeting with George Bush from PT last month.

In fact, here it is again, for posterity:

Quote
GWB: “Hey good to see ya Mr. Dempski. I read all aboutcha.”
WAD: “Pleasure to meet you Mister President. I’m here to discuss Intelligent Design.”
GWB: “That’s right. I’m in favor of that. Creationism is great.”
WAD: “Well it’s…um…it’s not creationism exactly.”
GWB: “But you talk about the Creator, right? Supernatural creator? Not Darwin?”
WAD: “Well, yeah, uh, we talk about a Transcendent Designer.”
GWB: “Oh, yeah, I like that stuff. I’m all about Jesus.”
WAD: “Uh…well, see it’s not about Jesus, really, it’s about science…”
GWB: “Wait a minute I thought you said it was the book of john in science talk.”
WAD: “Well…uh…it’s totally separate from christianity–“
GWB: “Jesus is separate from christianity? That doesn’t make no sense.”
WAD: “This isn’t about the bible. It’s about very scientific math and terms and it’s not just christianity.”
GWB: “Not christian? You mean its atheist? Like the commies? I thought this was creationism.”
WAD: “Well no, it’s…um…it’s…okay like I said it’s not really creationism…”
GWB: “But you got a Creator, right? And the Creator, that’s Jesus, right?”
WAD: “Uh…uugggghhhhhhh.”
GWB: “Don’t worry man I’m in your corner. I think the earth is 6,000 years old too.”
WAD: “AAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHHH!”
GWB: “Hey whatever happened in that Dover case? How’d that go?”
WAD: [runs out of room]
GWB: “That guy was high strung. And tall like a string bean. I’m gonna call him Stringy.”


How about a round of applause, ladies and gentlemen!!!

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,16:56   

Quote (BWE @ Jan. 06 2007,17:30)
And Steve, wasn't the tard graphic yours? THAT... that is why you are the moderator. Undoubtably the best moment on the thread.

**Edit** what kind of indexing is being proposed? what technology? DATABASE? etc?

It was funny, I think, but it's also kind of true. Once or twice in my freshman year of physics, I heard kids ask the professor a question which caused him to clench his teeth, restrain himself, and think, "Don't stress, this kid's obviously not going to be around long." That made-up data by AFDave would have been right in line with that kind of thing.

(In PY203 in the beginning of my sophomore year, I had a great professor. Everyone hated him because he seemed depressed to the point of suicidal, but I liked how he didn't pussyfoot around his atheism when people would ask. Most atheists I've known have either been in the closet or peeking out of it, but he wouldn't hesitate to admit it when asked. Anyway, one of the funniest things I ever saw was, he's at the board, lecturing, writing with some chalk, and a student asks a question, a question like if AFDave had a brother who was known as 'the dumb one', the kind of question he would ask. And the professor turned around, and thought about it for a second, and thought some variant of the sentence, 'If I try to answer that, it will probably somehow make Me stupider." and after a few seconds of silence, he turned around, and went back to the lecture he'd been giving. I was making all sorts of PFFFFTTTT noises, trying not to bust out laughing, my face turning red in that 90º North Carolina classroom.)

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,17:03   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 06 2007,15:55)
Does anyone think he ever surpassed that pinnacle?

No, but he came #### close:

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,17:14   

Ok, ok, stop singing my praises. I'm actually not a very clever or funny in real life. If you knew me you'd find me a bit on the boring side. The creationists write the hilarious absurd lines, I just rewrite or reimagine it and get the credit. It's like Will Rogers said, I don't write jokes. I just watch Uncommonly Dense and report the facts. That scenario with Bush above, it's not my own brilliant imagination, it's entirely due to the Discovery Institute people, I really didn't add anything. It's based on one of the fatal flaws of ID, which is that the Discovery Institute came up with this clever plan where success depends on being very evasive and circumspect about 'The Designer', not realizing that, you know, they don't constitute a school board, and their clever scheme would be carried into court by some group of fundy yokels who could never be so careful.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,19:31   

Quote
**Edit** what kind of indexing is being proposed? what technology? DATABASE? etc?


I think we're at the point of all agreeing that it would be a good idea to index it...

but nobody chomping at the bit to process an 11K post thread.

I'd say just throw out whatever ideas pop into your head, and as time permits, someone will jump up and say something like "yeah, that works, I'll do it", and then others will offer to help...

DM implied he had done some indexing of the first part of the thread before, and I'd hate to throw out old work rather than just build on it, so if that still exists, it sounds like a place to start.

personally, I think we could leave it just as is, and a database of indexable tags associated with each post entry could be constructed, then a simple front end could be built to allow searching by tag, and that would return a series of links to the relevant posts.

again, this would be very simple, nobody would have to modify the structure of the current threads, and once we had a table of agreed upon index tags, the thread could be simply divied up amongst interested parties (like one person takes posts 1-500, then next 500-1000, etc.)and they could simply associate the tags with specifc post entries in the database (I could even make an online entry form for adding links to the database).

anywho, that's what i got.

I think it would work well, and would require the most minimal of effort while still allowing for easy searching and cross-indexing if wished.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,20:18   

I'm a Lotus Notes developer.  I might be able to do something with the thread in Notes, but I wouldn't be able to host it.  Does anyone have access to a Domino server where we could find a permanent home?

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,20:20   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Jan. 06 2007,19:31)
Quote
**Edit** what kind of indexing is being proposed? what technology? DATABASE? etc?


I think we're at the point of all agreeing that it would be a good idea to index it...

but nobody chomping at the bit to process an 11K post thread.

I'd say just throw out whatever ideas pop into your head, and as time permits, someone will jump up and say something like "yeah, that works, I'll do it", and then others will offer to help...

DM implied he had done some indexing of the first part of the thread before, and I'd hate to throw out old work rather than just build on it, so if that still exists, it sounds like a place to start.

personally, I think we could leave it just as is, and a database of indexable tags associated with each post entry could be constructed, then a simple front end could be built to allow searching by tag, and that would return a series of links to the relevant posts.

again, this would be very simple, nobody would have to modify the structure of the current threads, and once we had a table of agreed upon index tags, the thread could be simply divied up amongst interested parties (like one person takes posts 1-500, then next 500-1000, etc.)and they could simply associate the tags with specifc post entries in the database (I could even make an online entry form for adding links to the database).

anywho, that's what i got.

I think it would work well, and would require the most minimal of effort while still allowing for easy searching and cross-indexing if wished.

I'll do the first half of the thread. Give me two months. T: I'd appreciate if you could give html links to it and look it over.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,20:25   

You say "A Database" as if there is only 1 kind.

I like the google notebook idea because you can use the ctrl+f in firefox to find. I could set up an access database for ODBC and some basic logic in an asp page for searching but I don't know where it could be hosted. PHP is beyond me.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,20:30   

hosting is a curious question. Steve? If we can't hold it here, I think my buddy would. Ondo, where are you?

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,21:26   

Quote
You say "A Database" as if there is only 1 kind.


meh, so long as you can build an online accessible front end on it, it wouldn't make much difference which db server proggy you use.

any of the SQL servers would be fine (open source or not), or access even.  even with 11k entries, it's not really that big for even the most limited of db servers.

the lotus notes approach sounds interesting, but it also sounds like it needs a custom server install?

I have a db server available for testing that can run any sql or access db (but it's only available on an hours/day basis - usually 11:00 am to 11:00 pm PST), and a permanent server (with limited space) for html files and whatnot.

I think Wes might have some ideas on hosting if he were asked.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,21:40   

I'm not sure if this is what is being proposed right now, but I am wondering if the easiest thing to do is to create a MySQL database containing a link to each post as well as a list of keywords for that post.

Then all we do is allow people to search by keyword and the output ends up being a list of links to the individual posts.

We can even host it on the same server as Antievolution provided there is a little MySQL space left--we can easily create a search box or link to a search page.

That way we don't have to process every post, just create a spreadsheet with the link and the keywords and since the posts are sequential we can likely write a little script/macro to create the links so we don't have to manually type those in.

Does this make sense?

Edit:  Maybe one of you brilliant developer types could even create a program to spider the thread, sequentially pulling up the posts, then creating a list of keywords for that post.  I think I could do it in PHP, but I'm not very advanced.  If we could write the script then processing the whole thread would only take a few minutes.

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:21   

Quote
I'm not sure if this is what is being proposed right now, but I am wondering if the easiest thing to do is to create a MySQL database containing a link to each post as well as a list of keywords for that post.


other than specifying the database, that was pretty much what I was thinking above.

However, it sounds like DM is working with something already, and I'm happy to wait and see what comes out of that.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:28   

If anyone is interested in a useful summarizing tool have a look a Copernic Summarizer free 30 day trial available.
Coperinic Desktop (free) should be on everyones PC IMHO it indexes every single document on your pc and when finished gives instant return of every document/pdf/etc with the keyword.

Here is what it did to the first page of the 2nd AFD thread.

If anyone wants to run both threads through as a text file the concepts heading may be pretty useful. I don't have the time alas.

Quote

Concepts:
flood, quote, animals, humans, evidence, rock, water, layers, dave, deposits, sediment, God, reasoning, Christian, Scriptures.


Summary:
When I first proposed my hypothesis a few days ago, I asked for comments and critique.

I have now received this and have updated my hypothesis to reflect this.

You can see this discussion under "AFDave's God Hypothesis."

Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

I will now restate my updated Hypothesis (added a few points) and set forth the updated rules and framework which I wish to use for my reasoning.

MY BACKGROUND I was first an Electrical Engineer, then an Air Force pilot (T-38 and Huey, believe it or not), then a businessman.

Having sold my second business, I am now what you might say "between businesses" and am spending a lot of time on non-profit endeavors.

I do have an aircraft charter business (a single King Air to fuel my flying "habit") and I am into alternative motor vehicle fuels with the possibility of a future business venture, but I'm not currently doing anything big in business.

I was never a logician, by trade, but that does not mean I can't become one very quickly, especially when I see gross incompetence in the field.

I also do not pretend to be a professional geologist, cosmologist, physicist, biologist, or Hebrew or Greek scholar.

But I do know some good ones and I read voraciously.

What I really am is an ordinary guy with a pretty good brain for learning most anything who is sick and tired of what appears to me to be absolute nonsense being fed to us from the Evolution Dogmatists.

It appears to me that while there are many good scientists doing a truckload of good work for the benefit of humanity, there seems to be a big disconnect with reality when "science" begins speculating about how life began and developed.

I was pleased to see the article mentioned below by Meyer because it is now obvious to me that I am not the only one floating the "God Hypothesis" again.

I am apparently in very good company and the pace of new research in this area is accelerating.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT (ROE) I need to say right up front that my reasoning with respect to this "Creator God Hypothesis" DOES NOT follow the Deductive Framework.

I have stated prior to giving my hypothesis, that I cannot provide a watertight proof for God and I don't believe anyone can, so people are correct in saying that my hypothesis would fail using the deductive schema.

However, we CAN use Abductive Reasoning then draw an Inference to the Best Explanation (IBE), and as Meyer points out below, this gives us powerful support for believing that the "Creator God Hypothesis" may in fact be true.

So there is good news, O Seeker of Truth!

For instance, Peirce argued that skepticism about Napoleon's existence was unjustified although his existence could be known only by abduction: Numberless documents refer to a conqueror called Napoleon Bonaparte.

This God created mankind with a choice of either doing his will or not doing his will, in a similar way as parents "create" babies knowing full well that their child will either do their will or not do their will.

Christian Theologians commonly call the choice of NOT doing God's will "sin."

My hypothesis proposes that there was only one large "super-continent" prior to the Great Flood of Noah, thus minimizing geographic isolation and resultant natural selection and specialization/diversification.

The same applies to animals except that I make no proposal as to HOW MANY animals there were initially.

It is proposed that early man was vigorous, healthy and possibly taller than modern humans.

Most of the "day-to-day management" of Planet Earth was delegated to mankind himself, similar to how modern parents delegate the day-to-day management of their children to a school or a day care center.

It completely reshaped the ante-diluvian world and resulted in massive, worldwide sedimentation and fossilization, mountain range uplift, sea basin lowering, continent separation, and climate change.

I. Following the Global Flood, we hypothesize an Ice Age of undetermined duration brought on by the massive climate changes induced by the Flood.

Since the time of the Ice Age, the structure of the earth's crust and the climate which followed, has not changed appreciably, and uniformitarian principles may now be applied to geological studies.

Moses eventually received these stone tablets (or copies of them) and composed the book we now call Genesis by compiling these records into one written document.

L. God personally dictated the events of the Creation week to the first man, Adam, but then assumed a less active role in the composition of the balance of Genesis and the balance of what is now commonly called the Christian Scriptures.

This role varied from active dictation in an audible voice to less obvious methods--we might call it "planting of thoughts" in the minds of the writers.

The reason for the variance we find in the legends is that many of them are simply oral traditions passed down through the generations without the benefit of scrupulous copying of written records that the Christian Scriptures have enjoyed.

Since the Documentary Hypothesis (Graf-Wellhausen Theory) has now been thoroughly discredited, we have good reason to revert to the previously well established hypothesis that Genesis is NOT oral tradition, but rather it is a carefully copied written record of eye-witness accounts.

These prophecies "just happen" to all converge in the life of one man of history--Jesus of Nazareth.

As such, these Scriptures should be the basis and starting point for all human activities from individual behaviour to family operation to nation building and governance of human affairs to scientific endeavors and the arts.

The K-Ar method is probably the most widely used radiometric dating technique available to geologists.

True (except, of course, there's been no discussion of the kinematics of argon in molten rock) ...

but argon does not migrate in either direction after solidification, Davie-dork.

Argon moves freely in or out as appropriate in molten rock, doesn't in solidified rock.

That's why we can see excess argon in some (but not all) ancient rocks (if the argon were mobile there'd be no noticeable argon of any parentage), and it's why the K-Ar method works as well as it does.

And the famous Cherry Picking statement ...

One of the principal tasks of the geochronologist is to select the type of material used for a dating analysis.

True in any field that involves selecting samples, and not evidence of cherry picking.

You have yet to address the the evidence that terrifies you ...

the observed patterns of isochron slopes, isochron intercepts, and concordance between different dating methods.

No matter what you think of the methods, the patterns are there and if you can't explain 'em your hypothesis ain't viable.

You can't explain 'em, your hypothesis is rejected.

Ah, running away again leaving 99.9999% of the evidence and problems with your hypothesis unadressed.

(Oh BTW ... did anyone notice that the chart we just discussed with the miniscule range of values was primarily a MINERAL isochron chart?

Did you notice that Snelling's data is 100% whole-rock and defines a nice horizontal line with insignificant variation in 87Sr/86Sr and large variation in 87Rb/86Rb?

Therefore, at least some whole-rock isochrons are correct ...

just as at least some K-Ar ages are correct because excess argon is not universal ...

and we can therefore conclude that your hypothesis of a young Earth is falsified.

Davie's original quote of Dalrymple, before proper application of QuoteMine" Scissors: Quote One of the principal tasks of the geochronologist is to select the type of material used for a dating analysis.

A great deal of effort goes into the sample selection, and the choices are made before the analysis, not on the basis of the results.

... and after: Quote One of the principal tasks of the geochronologist is to select the type of material used for a dating analysis.

Geochronologists have gotten so many "wrong" dates that they are adept at sample selection.

Why do you think K-Ar was so popular when Dalrymple wrote his piece but now it's not, according to Jon?

Because other methods are more accurate (although K-Ar is stil useful and used, and is accurate enough to disprove your hypothesis by orders of magnitude) and more widely applicable.

No, just that I have led a horse to water once again, but I can only wait for him to drink so long.

Passing the mixing test is not sufficient evidence for a mixing line.

Mixing does not explain the observed pattern of isochron slopes.

Mixing does not explain the observed pattern of isochron intercepts.

No matter what you think of the individual dating methods, the pattern is there and must be explained by any viable hypothesis.

Now the theory says that for the isochron to be valid, the initial Sr ratio of 87Sr/86Sr is HOMOGENEOUS.

The values were measured to 3-4 significant digits; that's plenty of precision.

Measuring infinitesmally small ranges of data and plotting the data on a hugely expanded scale does not a believer make, and is exactly what you told me I should NOT do ...

How much water was involved in the flood, Dave?

You claim that humans have been literate since your flood.

Why are there so many profitable companies that use the Old Earth paradigm as the basis for a successful business case?

How did those tracks get in the coconino sandstone in the midst of a raging flood that deposited billions MORE tons of sediment on top of the sandstone?

Nor would those animals survive UNDERWATER, nor would their tracks survive the pressure of the layers above on the wet sandstone during the "flood year" (13) Layers should have SOME animals in them jumbled up *everywhere* dave.

Explain the presence of eolian and evaporite deposits between fluvial or marine deposits, carbonate and dolomite deposits, coal, and why there are clear cycles of regression and transgression present in the rock record allowing for things like sequence stratigraphy to be done.

I say they moved away from the Mid-Ocean Ridge, then stopped rather suddenly.

This caused folding and thickening onthe leading edge of the plate and generated massive quantities of heat and pressure leading to metamorphism.

Dave was asked: Did those continents STOP TWICE?

JonF noted that such rapid movements of plates and "sudden stopping" would melt the rock.

Dave doesn't give a response or answer to that little problem.

Precisely how were the Vertebrae Ridge mountains you posted...metamorphosed?

Dave said that as the continents shifted the layers were folded, heated (and metamorphosed) and uplifted, all in a very short time span.

He claimed "These are all very well-understood processes and this is a very plausible scenario".

I asked Dave to show me references for this "well understood process " in regard to the Vertebrae Ridge gneiss.

He failed to answer p.125 (41) How did the iridium layer between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary appear within flood waters...

the iridium layer is especially interesting, since it is global.

How could iridium segregate markedly into a single thin layer...and why does the iridium layer "just happen" to date to the same time as the Chicxulub crater?

The Arizona Barringer Meteor penetrates the Permian Kaibab and Toroweap Formations and has caused shock effects on the Coconino Sandstone.

Because the crater penetrates Permian strata, it is Permian or younger.

And since the crater contains some Pleistocene lake deposits, it is Pleistocene or older.

The Geomorphology of the crater itself indicates only a small amount of erosion.

The Crater is dated at 49,000 years old.

Did the earth cool down several hundred degrees in 6000 years or so?

Please explain the thermodynamics of such a cooling process.

Dave, since this is supposedly your "hypothesis" we're talking about here, how do you date the Grand Canyon?

How was a canyon is carved in limestone and buried under 17000 feet of sediment in the Tarim Basin in far western China?That's over three miles deep of overlying rock and soil for the mathematically challenged Fundies out there.

I'm incredibly interested in how the Kaibab was formed in your model, Dave.

Tell me how limestone was preferentially deposited in that layer.

How is it that calcium carbonate was deposited in a flood, with the turbidity of a flood?

Dave claimed (p.138, this thread) that only 3 radiometric dates had been given him, then that only three layers were dated.

I will leave this forum and proclaim your victory if I am wrong."

And: "Okay, let's switch it to your claim that only three layers have been dated, DaveShithead...want a gentleman's agreement on that?

Explain the Paleosols we see in the Grand Staircase (49) Explain the buried vertical Yellowstone forests that have paleosols between them (50) Why do you choose to lie deliberately so much, MaggotDave?

Such a stratum would have CLEAR indications of pre- and postflood strata bracketing it.

Continents zooming around clearly did not occur 4300 years ago, nor is there any indication of a post-flood "ice age" which happened while the Egyptians and many others were still literate and writing.

Let's see you once more avoid the unpleasant fact that you have no evidence whatsoever that it ever happened.

Evidence that there was ever enough water to produce a layer of water approximately 5,000 feet above current sea level (this is a tough one to pin Dave down on, because he doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that even without taking mountain ranges into account, continental terrain varies between a few hundred feet below sea level and ~5,000 above sea level, and he's never been able to account for such variation, even with continents rushing around at hundreds of miles an hour).

Much smaller diversity in living organisms than we currently observe, since 4,500 years is nowhere near enough time for several tens of thousands of "kinds" of organisms to have radiated into the tens of millions of species observed today, aside from some sort of ultra-macro-hyper-evolution far beyond anything asserted by evolutionary theory.

All mountain chains worldwide should show the same amount of (very little) erosion, because 1) they'd be only a few thousand years old, and 2) they're all post-flood, so none of the accelerated erosional forces Dave assumes would be available.

There should be very little genetic variability among humans (to say nothing of other organisms), since 5,000 years is not enough time for much genetic variation to accumulate.

Anyone else, feel free to add, but I should point out that the absence of just a few of these pieces of evidence is more than sufficient to completely falsify Dave's "hypothesis."

I should also point out that since it's Dave's hypothesis, it's his job to come up with evidence to falsify it, not ours, and he has never done so.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summarized by Copernic Summarizer



--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:40   

I love Copernic software.

Sorry to bore you all but the above post was a 25% summary of this page

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....;t=3131




now this is a 5% summary


 
Quote

Concepts:
flood, quote, animals, humans, evidence, rock, water, layers, dave, deposits, sediment, God, reasoning, Christian, Scriptures.


Summary:
You can see this discussion under "AFDave's God Hypothesis."

I do have an aircraft charter business (a single King Air to fuel my flying "habit") and I am into alternative motor vehicle fuels with the possibility of a future business venture, but I'm not currently doing anything big in business.

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT (ROE) I need to say right up front that my reasoning with respect to this "Creator God Hypothesis" DOES NOT follow the Deductive Framework.

This God created mankind with a choice of either doing his will or not doing his will, in a similar way as parents "create" babies knowing full well that their child will either do their will or not do their will.

Christian Theologians commonly call the choice of NOT doing God's will "sin."

My hypothesis proposes that there was only one large "super-continent" prior to the Great Flood of Noah, thus minimizing geographic isolation and resultant natural selection and specialization/diversification.

It is proposed that early man was vigorous, healthy and possibly taller than modern humans.

The reason for the variance we find in the legends is that many of them are simply oral traditions passed down through the generations without the benefit of scrupulous copying of written records that the Christian Scriptures have enjoyed.

True (except, of course, there's been no discussion of the kinematics of argon in molten rock) ...

One of the principal tasks of the geochronologist is to select the type of material used for a dating analysis.

True in any field that involves selecting samples, and not evidence of cherry picking.

the observed patterns of isochron slopes, isochron intercepts, and concordance between different dating methods.

No matter what you think of the methods, the patterns are there and if you can't explain 'em your hypothesis ain't viable.

The values were measured to 3-4 significant digits; that's plenty of precision.

You claim that humans have been literate since your flood.

Dave doesn't give a response or answer to that little problem.

He failed to answer p.125 (41) How did the iridium layer between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary appear within flood waters...

Because the crater penetrates Permian strata, it is Permian or younger.

And since the crater contains some Pleistocene lake deposits, it is Pleistocene or older.

How was a canyon is carved in limestone and buried under 17000 feet of sediment in the Tarim Basin in far western China?That's over three miles deep of overlying rock and soil for the mathematically challenged Fundies out there.

Let's see you once more avoid the unpleasant fact that you have no evidence whatsoever that it ever happened.

Evidence that there was ever enough water to produce a layer of water approximately 5,000 feet above current sea level (this is a tough one to pin Dave down on, because he doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that even without taking mountain ranges into account, continental terrain varies between a few hundred feet below sea level and ~5,000 above sea level, and he's never been able to account for such variation, even with continents rushing around at hundreds of miles an hour).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summarized by Copernic Summarizer



Note: when the summary is in the Copernic Summarizer interface you can click on any one of the concept words and it will take you the body of the text.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:48   

And Finaly a 100 word summary: (of the first page of the 2nd thread)

Quote

Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::AFDave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis 2
http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....;t=3131

Concepts:
flood, quote, animals, humans, evidence, rock, water, layers, dave, deposits, sediment, God, reasoning, Christian, Scriptures.


Summary:
You can see this discussion under "AFDave's God Hypothesis."

RULES OF ENGAGEMENT (ROE) I need to say right up front that my reasoning with respect to this "Creator God Hypothesis" DOES NOT follow the Deductive Framework.

It is proposed that early man was vigorous, healthy and possibly taller than modern humans.

the observed patterns of isochron slopes, isochron intercepts, and concordance between different dating methods.

You claim that humans have been literate since your flood.

Dave doesn't give a response or answer to that little problem.

He failed to answer p.125 (41) How did the iridium layer between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary appear within flood waters...



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Summarized by Copernic Summarizer



--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:48   

interesting software, KE.

at the very least it could speed up generation of consistent key words.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2007,23:59   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Jan. 06 2007,23:48)
interesting software, KE.

at the very least it could speed up generation of consistent key words.

Oh yeah absolutely, that was the main point of course.

The beauty is that once the whole text file of the thread is available to Copernic the process is extremely fast. A real time saver.

Does anyone know if google notes extracts a text/html file of a thread as a continous file?

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,00:08   

Quote (k.e @ Jan. 07 2007,00:59)
Oh yeah absolutely, that was the main point of course.

The beauty is that once the whole text file of the thread is available to Copernic the process is extremely fast. A real time saver.

Does anyone know if google notes extracts a text/html file of a thread as a continous file?

We can get either using by choosing ALL then clicking the print link.  From there we can either choose HTML or Text to export the file.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,02:30   

Far be it from me to offer my services at this late stage and thus claim the glory, but I'm more than willing to help out with any donkey work that's needed.

Here is a section from my CV about my computers skills:

1) I can type. Occasionally accurately.
2) I know where teh intarnetz is.

Thank you.

If, once the computer whizzkids have decided how where and what we are using to archive the AFD object lesson there is some typing, or keyword extracting or basic stuff that doesn't require much knowledge about compiling or complex stuff (or that has a set of instructions even a chemist can follow) add my name to the list of willing volunteers.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Malum Regnat



Posts: 98
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,02:42   

Quote
"I suspect that a good understanding of ID will allow us to predict exactly when the world will end." - SBWillie


The world will end as soon as the lab rats discover the question.

--------------
This universe as explained by the 'other' Hawkins

Blah Hi-tech blah blah blah blah ... DESIGNED.
Blah Hi-tech blah blah blah blah ... NOT DESIGNED.

;-}>

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2007,02:43   

Oh and in order to preserve it, I left a comment on Dave's blog, I doubt it will stand for long:

"Gosh Dave, this latest has to be one of the most dishonest and least representative of reality claims you have made. Bear in mind that I read your entire output whilst at ATBC, and there were some staggering low points on there from you.

If anyone is interested in finding out what Dave's actual posts were, and why he has actually been removed from ATBC, then Dave's comments and threads are preserved there for posterity. The record speaks for itself, and it certainly is not in accord with Dave's attempt at revisionism. I'm sorry Dave but I have rarely encountered a less honest human being than you, and I've met creationists before. If you think this is an unwarranted insult, it really isn't. The threads at ATBC demonstrate beyond any doubt that you behave dishonestly in order to avoid challenging your religious claims. You have my profound pity.

I seem to remember that somewhere in the bible there's a comment about the naughtiness of bearing false witness. Oops Dave,looks like on judgement day you'll have some 'splainin' to do!

I hope that one day you can drag yourself out of the obviously tortured mindset you currently occupy."

From Here

I doubt it will remain for long, Dave's staggering level of dishonesty is almost at Cordova levels.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
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