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  Topic: Axiomatic Panbiogeography, Crankery, or not so much?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,13:55   

Came across this page while googling something else.  Tell me what you think about this
Quote
This web site is intended as an introduction and study source for information I am calling "axiomatic panbiogeography".  This is a discipline that uses the topology of species' collection localities, starting with an incidence geometry, to deduce biogeographical homologies. It is inspired after the vision that geographic distributions of living things on Earth can be viewed spatially as Kant was inspired by the "starry sky" less the moral law within. It is a modification of recent attempts to mathematize Croizat's Panbiogeographical Method. Thus, it provides content to the "empty form" Ponicare criticized Hilbert's program on, enabling a thoroughgoing pasigraphy beyond Woodger answering Poincare against Russell.


Do whut.

you'd have to see some of the pictures.  1000 words and all that.  

Anyone care to critique?  i thought i knew a little something about panbiogeography but this is way over my head.  and looks like Javison to boot.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,14:47   

I suppose it keeps him from standing on street corners, waving crumpled pieces of paper at passers-by.

--------------
Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,15:00   

What's a "biogeographical homology"? Combining those two terms that way doesn't fit with my understanding of what the terms mean by themselves, so I don't know what the phrase is supposed to mean.

Henry

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,15:06   

Woowoowoowoowoo!

I like the label on the x-axis, second "graph" down:
Quote
Determinate; 0%
Chance -- GOD

It also appears he's misunderstood the conventional wisdom that if you want to increase site traffic, add beaver pictures.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,15:14   

Quote
add beaver pictures.


Like here?

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,15:23   

It's quite sad really. I mean, just look at the scanned crumpled scraps of paper with frantic scribblings. Not quite timecube level though.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2008,15:38   

there is a long history of woo-like offerings in biogeography.  hell biology in general. but in general its only woo when you can't tear it down with data.  this tearing down has actually happened in biogeography with the demise of all the land bridge theories floated to explain disjunct distributions of monophyletic groups.

both panbiogeography and vicariance have been guilty of the sin of woo.  but not always.  it seems to me that our napkin calculating friend here may be attempting to avoid the sin, but it is hard for me to tell when there are gems like this here sprinkled liberally throughout.

Linguists, attention.  Please explain just what in the fuckity hell all this is 'posed to mean.

Quote
Colgatorene Plistonomy

Quote
3.  Steven J.  

Quote
> Too much plistorine allometrically and morphometrically applied to the
> historical fossilisation will reduce the allegorical historicity of the > geographic algorithm.


But this position ignores the plesioempirical allotropy
interlocutionally attributed to, and intersubjectively retrodicted by,
the metahistorical and and oligocontinually algorithmic paracosm.
This in itself renders your position not merely contrapositivist, but
virtually devoid of historicogrammatical nuance.
-- Steven J.



cause, uh, hell i don't know what the shit he is on about there.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,04:02   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,May 08 2008,13:38)
this here sprinkled liberally throughout.

Linguists, attention.  Please explain just what in the fuckity hell all this is 'posed to mean.

   
Quote
Colgatorene Plistonomy

   
Quote
3.  Steven J.  

   
Quote
> Too much plistorine allometrically and morphometrically applied to the
> historical fossilisation will reduce the allegorical historicity of the > geographic algorithm.


But this position ignores the plesioempirical allotropy
interlocutionally attributed to, and intersubjectively retrodicted by,
the metahistorical and and oligocontinually algorithmic paracosm.
This in itself renders your position not merely contrapositivist, but
virtually devoid of historicogrammatical nuance.
-- Steven J.



cause, uh, hell i don't know what the shit he is on about there.

Are they actually serious with that shit?  It looks like Sokal-inspired postmodern biogibberish.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,07:48   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ May 08 2008,15:38)
there is a long history of woo-like offerings in biogeography.  hell biology in general. but in general its only woo when you can't tear it down with data.  this tearing down has actually happened in biogeography with the demise of all the land bridge theories floated to explain disjunct distributions of monophyletic groups.

both panbiogeography and vicariance have been guilty of the sin of woo.  but not always.  it seems to me that our napkin calculating friend here may be attempting to avoid the sin, but it is hard for me to tell when there are gems like this here sprinkled liberally throughout.

Linguists, attention.  Please explain just what in the fuckity hell all this is 'posed to mean.

 
Quote
Colgatorene Plistonomy

 
Quote
3.  Steven J.  

 
Quote
> Too much plistorine allometrically and morphometrically applied to the
> historical fossilisation will reduce the allegorical historicity of the > geographic algorithm.


But this position ignores the plesioempirical allotropy
interlocutionally attributed to, and intersubjectively retrodicted by,
the metahistorical and and oligocontinually algorithmic paracosm.
This in itself renders your position not merely contrapositivist, but
virtually devoid of historicogrammatical nuance.
-- Steven J.



cause, uh, hell i don't know what the shit he is on about there.

These words could be completely rearranged and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. It's literary white noise.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,08:03   

Quote (BWE @ May 09 2008,07:48)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,May 08 2008,15:38)
there is a long history of woo-like offerings in biogeography.  hell biology in general. but in general its only woo when you can't tear it down with data.  this tearing down has actually happened in biogeography with the demise of all the land bridge theories floated to explain disjunct distributions of monophyletic groups.

both panbiogeography and vicariance have been guilty of the sin of woo.  but not always.  it seems to me that our napkin calculating friend here may be attempting to avoid the sin, but it is hard for me to tell when there are gems like this here sprinkled liberally throughout.

Linguists, attention.  Please explain just what in the fuckity hell all this is 'posed to mean.

 
Quote
Colgatorene Plistonomy

 
Quote
3.  Steven J.  

 
Quote
> Too much plistorine allometrically and morphometrically applied to the
> historical fossilisation will reduce the allegorical historicity of the > geographic algorithm.


But this position ignores the plesioempirical allotropy
interlocutionally attributed to, and intersubjectively retrodicted by,
the metahistorical and and oligocontinually algorithmic paracosm.
This in itself renders your position not merely contrapositivist, but
virtually devoid of historicogrammatical nuance.
-- Steven J.



cause, uh, hell i don't know what the shit he is on about there.

These words could be completely rearranged and it wouldn't change the meaning at all. It's literary white noise.

that's the way i feel when i try to talk spanish.

to be fair to the first wingnut, this quote came from a section on his webpage that apparently had the wizard setup script still in place.  The column heading?  Stuff you don't want to show on your web page.

yeah.  wtf.  i caught the whiff of a finch like odor poking around there, but it was too much like Texas Chainsaw Massacre.  either those people are geniuses (or genies) with a communication-PR problem, or they are nut-so.  even just to make that shit up you got to be off by a little bit.

if you go to that link where the gibberish is posted, there is some stuff by the author of the web page on down about halfway in the biogeography section.

it doesn't make much more sense than that though.  but hey croizat was a loony fucker too.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,08:17   

Henry I would guess that they use that term to refer to two geographic locations with shared biota (presumably members of a clade or monophyletic group).  panbiogeography was supposed to take all those sorts of comparative spatial location of critters and infer all sorts of things about the history of dispersal of lineages.  

it seems in principle that is a reasonable effort, for some unknown level of accuracy and precision that varies with taxonomic resolution, geographic scale, etc.  after croizat there were some americans that constructed a cladistic way to analyze the same problem.  despite much activity in the two groups the conclusion from debates between them is that parsimony is a rugged landscape, and choices of model selection and null hypothesis testing can not always be based on data alone.  same old underdetermination problem that pervades all of science but perhaps particularly in biology.

but THIS Brad McFall guy is a piece of work.  

Quote
As for the delays, I am not paid to do this, and I juggle a near daily on-line presence at http://www.evcforum.net while comunicating for the past 5 years or so with Georgi Gladyshev in Moscow. It is not an easy taskt to support the physical basis of panbiogeography.


hmmm.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,09:07   

We now interrupt your regularly scheduled woo for a look at some old woo...


Aquatic Apes Be-Attches!


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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,16:13   

Because it's Friday afternoon, I had another look.  Interesting...
Quote
Ponicare criticized Hilbert's program on, enabling a thoroughgoing pasigraphy beyond Woodger answering Poincare against Russell.

Pony care?  Busted!  I think you should confess now, carlsonjok.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
B McFall



Posts: 5
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,15:46   

Dear John,

Thank you very much for looking again.

Yes, it is true I should do better at presentation.

The notion of pasigraphy is, however, quite important!

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,15:56   

Hi Brad thanks for coming!

What exactly is pasigraphy?  Your site is very interesting but very much over my head.  i thought that i knew something about biogeography but I am now convinced that I do not.  

Care to enlighten me about how you do biogeography, and what pasigraphy or postmodernism has to do with it?  I am all ears!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
B McFall



Posts: 5
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,16:00   

There has been some internet development of panbiogeography since the work in New Zeland.

My own take, is in  providing a pure math idea (incidence geometry) to the discipline.

Panbiogeography Gate - Links

One can find a links to my site above and below

Wiki Panbiogeography

There really is the potential for a new relation between experimental and theortetical biology in this work.

If you are interested in the evolution/creation angle it is true I have discussed this on EvC to some extent.

  
B McFall



Posts: 5
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,16:14   

Wiki has "pasigraphy" as
"Pasigraphy is a writing system where concepts are written instead of words or phonetics.  The aim (as with ordinary numerals 1, 2, 3, etc.) is to be intelligible to persons of all languages. The term was applied to a system proposed in 1796..."

Poincare used the phrase while denouncing Russell in "Science and Method" while refering to the ordinal of all ordinals which actually was not a number intelligible to anyone really and this recognition was part of Russell's reasoning for focusing on "classes" instead.

Cantor was already aware of this difficulty and related this notion to God instead of actual infinity.

One can get a fairly clear idea of how I think about this stuff by reading David Foster Wallace in "Everything and More A Compact History of (potential infinity symbol)."

I will spend some time discussing my own particular vision here, if you all would like but I do not have a lot of time right now.

No one has actuallly been able to understand actual infinity outside of mathematics and I struggle to imagine the proper nexus of biodiversity and its measures. Incidence geometry provides the "structure" but I am searching the transfinites for the "quantity"

Nodal Verticies provide approximations.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,16:23   

Quote
I will spend some time discussing my own particular vision here, if you all would like but I do not have a lot of time right now.


I'm listening.  Sounds very interesting.

Could you possibly tell us what
Quote
3.  Steven J.  


Quote
> Too much plistorine allometrically and morphometrically applied to the
> historical fossilisation will reduce the allegorical historicity of the > geographic algorithm.


But this position ignores the plesioempirical allotropy
interlocutionally attributed to, and intersubjectively retrodicted by,
the metahistorical and and oligocontinually algorithmic paracosm.
This in itself renders your position not merely contrapositivist, but
virtually devoid of historicogrammatical nuance.
-- Steven J.
is all about?  Or did it sound like the flapping of bird wings to you too?  As much as I like the 2 dollar words, that one left me broke.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
B McFall



Posts: 5
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,16:33   

Sure, it was pretty much bird wing flappers!!

I can sometimes get some idea by continuing the conversation with these kinds of posters but in this case, I just had to stop at that place.

Sorry, I have to go now.

  
B McFall



Posts: 5
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2008,08:02   

This is my last post in this thread if there is no more interest in discussing axiomatic panbiogeography.

My first attempt to create a comprehensive vision of biogeography was in 1987 when I established a set of four independent studies as part of the College Scholar Program in the Arts College at Cornell University. It was on worm snake distribution.
(map here (bottom of page)- http://axiompanbiog.com/sitemap.aspx)
Included was a section on Croizat.

What the website
http://axiompanbiog.com/default.aspx
attempts to do is to reflect on Croizat's work through Cantor's increasing generalization found in Wallace on pages following and determine whether Croizat noticed something statiscally significant or not.  There is no question that the science of biogeography did not exist as I expected it should when I got to school.
230-235




I have generalized a view of Hilbert’s incidence geometry I related purely morphologically during the Cornell Study to biogeographic space in general (this is in conflict with Gould and Provine positions).
CONTENTS
http://axiompanbiog.com/contents.aspx
During the process of the work while enrolled at Cornell, I came into direct conflict with Julian Humphries on how to computerize the taxanomic  information (part of which resulted in my expulsion from Cornell). Having already uncovered Cantor's work before taking a break to Africa in ’86 in an approved but not sanctioned substitution for studies in Group Theory in the math department, I realized that, the data relations involved something additional in the organization
COMPARISONS
http://axiompanbiog.com/comparisons.aspx
due to the relation of order-types to the difference of cardinal and ordinal numbers, whatever that was to be materially.

This problem (sans my own take) has finally  been noticed Nathanel Cao and Rene Zaragueta Bagils and Regine Vignes-Lebbe .  So for this reason along my peculiar way of thinking the bio back in to geography has been more or less objectively validated.

See link on page above

I have not progressed on to decide if Godel was correct (or Cantor more correct) that there may be infinites between the denumerable infinite and the continuum or how to think about tetration and epsilon numbers
Wallace 258 (think of tetration of node in a mass under a finite # of baselines genetically infinite no matter the track)

biodiversity wise (Darwin has to be figured as thinking with a questionable "zero" of  pre-set theory thought etc.) nor specifically how the extraction of the hierarchy is to proceed (one has to weigh relative thought strengths of transdimensional continua and the extra row or order-type reality), especially as I am trying to think within the material of  Gladyshev's phenomenological thermodynamics at the same time now (rather than carrying on a thought I had before Cornell).

The solution of the pure math part related to panbiogeography depends on if the observable truths of Croizat are dependent merely on the movement of plates since the Gondwanaland or if lateral gene transfer is also to be explicated inter-textually etc. where separate creation need not necessarily be but the evolutionary synthesis was. This does not mean that God is out of this picture!! It might mean that irreducible complexity is or else intelligent design might achieve a more definite framework and/or the notion of kinds will  but this is not driving nor motiviating my thinking because there are too many social crevasses that conflict Kantian wise between Biblical and reasoning theology. That is unknown and only a consequence, if.


I do not know how YECwork is to eventually come into a possible full nexus with how I do what I think (it may be that I need to decide between Cantor and Godel first). The work rather struggles with Godel as to how much “mathematical” is to be substituted from “geometrical” in biology across history.
Page 106 A world without time


Simplistic versions of creation vs evolution are not possible for me anymore. Instead, I am starting to work with
http://aexion.org/ecoeconomics.aspx
the eco-justice literature ( I am the Presbytery of Susquehanna Valley Stewardship of Creation Enabler) and the notion of ecological economics and entropy related to limits (limit vs bound mathematically). I put this some in an old-fashioned way to Henry Morris while his was living as to “if creationists can predict the gaps” but he did not see mathematical manipulation nor computer simulation as part of creation though this might not necessarily have to be in his paternity. We still don’t have the accurate math nor computer codings but instead got Intelligent Design culturally. So even I am not sure how my whole how process (outside the topic of axiomatic panbiogeograhy) is to be historically recorded. It might be instructive to try to relate Derrida and Godel and Croizat but this I have not done specifically.

  
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