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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Steve Fuller Talk

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,01:54    Hi All, I (fairly) regularly go to Skeptics in the Pub, a London based skeptic event and drinkathon (two of my favourite activities combined). I noticed that this month's speaker (this coming thursday) is none other than Dover ID "defender" Prof Steve Fuller. See details: http://www.skeptic.org.uk/pub/ 1) Any Londoners are not only extremely welcome to come along, but they are actively encouraged to do so. It's a good laugh and the beer in reasonable. 2) Has anyone got any hints and tips for arguments with this chappie? Has anyone encountered him before? I have the Dover testimony etc and several of his papers. I also have the standard refutations of his extreme cultural relativism/pomo schtick. Anything additional is appreaciated. Cheers Louis -------------- Bye.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,03:10    Hi Louis, I'm jealous of the skeptics drinkathon but NOT meeting Mr Fullofit. It does sound like the kind of place that would take some serious work to get thrown out of tho'....hehehe..I'm sure I could manage it. Now I have heard your Mr Fuller on a radio interview not long after Dover, where your American friend (which sums up his ignorant attitude, coupled with a cheesy optimism) claimed to have found a new epistemology for religion and science ...in other words sweet f#uck all of nothing. The interviewer seemed less than impressed. Naturally Fuller waved his hands.....there was nothing up his sleeves. He was a bit dull actually. He was certainly less than impressive on the stand at Dover and succeeded in  sending the gallery to sleep while speaking at a rate exceeding the formation of rational thought...especially his own. When he finished they couldn't show him the door too soon. So IF you DO have the opportunity to ping him. Ask him a very simple question that demands a very simple answer and don't let him expand on it. That classic question is the one old time lawyers keep asking creationists and their answer always discredits them immediately if they get it wrong. (adopt AliG's persona for these) Ahem Mr Fuller. Please answer Yes or No, Do you agree or disagree with Mr Darwin that Homo Sapiens and Chimpanzees are descended from a common ancestor? He will of course try to go all postmodern with equal time for stupid ideas and as a professional in that field he has few peers (snicker). In which case I would say Mr Fuller. Please answer Yes or No, Do you agree or disagree with Dr Alan Sokal (who I'm sure he fears) that postmodernism and pseudo science are descended from a common ancestor? And would you please speculate what that ancestor may be. Don't wait for him to answer prompt him with dingbats, religious fanaticism, national socialism, UFO kooks, homeopathy, new agers   Anything you like really.....just to get under his skin. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,04:18    Louis; Just on the off chance you are not familiar with Sokal Enjoy Transgressing the Transgressors: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Total Bullshit -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,04:39    K.E. Thanks for that. Nice link, though luckily I have it . I am reading Sokal's "Intellectual Impostures" at the moment (can't think why). I am a little perturbed by Fuller because he is a very highly ranked academic. Not that I have no experience of highly ranked academics or that they scare me (more than necessary, I still wake up after nightmares about my PhD supervisor! Scary, scary man), but that he has got somewhere so it's probably foolish to underestimate him. Even if he is a sociology bod in roughly the Derrida mold. I think your approach is a good idea, so thanks for that excellentadvice. Pin him down and don't let him wriggle too much. Focus on the simple problems with ID and PoMo (incredulity, lack of evidence, directly opposed to what is observed etc.). Cheers Louis -------------- Bye.

k.e Posts: 1948 Joined: Mar. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,05:30    Good one Louis. Yeah he's a fast talking smart ass so he knows what strings to pull to rise up through the ranks of PoMo Social Science and probably screwed the right people. If I was there I would ask him something along the lines of. "Re Dover: Now that all the evidence has been weighed and the Dover school board was found attempting to introduce creationism which being a religion, is therefore illegal in US science classes. So yes or no, is it morally supportable on your part  to assist a US school board to break the law as you did at the Dover trial?" And watch him squirm. He may say ID is not creationism (remind him it is according to the US court) and he WILL take up the rest of conversation with mental masturbation to cover his tracks (remind him ID is not science but religion according to the US court), So it would be an interesting exercise to see how many times he would need to be reminded before he quits. He will come up with a 'new epistemology' which is just code for theocratic circular reasoning (remind him objective reasoning tells us that reality is measurable and practiced without the aid of the putative humanities since they gave up reason in favor non evidence based apologetics of one kind or another) then throw a full pint of Guinness over him and give him the old one two.  arrrrrrrggggggghhhhh. Dang I wish I was there you just can't get that sort of entertainment here. Maybe scratch that last suggestion..maybe. Skeptics should have a ball with this guy. Now I suspect he will come over all lovey dovey and say HE is a skeptic as well, but he is a sheep in wolfs clothing, he's just an old slightly more sophisticated creationist. You should warn your skeptic pals to be wary of having the wool pulled over their eyes. -------------- The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

Steverino Posts: 411 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,06:07    LOL....Ask him on what day God created fossils? ;-) -------------- - Born right the first time. - Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers. - It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,07:49    Re "on what day God created fossils?" Wasn't that last Thursday?

MidnightVoice Posts: 380 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 17 2006,08:53    Ask him about the lies the Creationists told on the stand, and how does it feel to be supporting a bunch of liars and perjurers   -------------- If I fly the coop some time And take nothing but a grip With the few good books that really count It's a necessary trip I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

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