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BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,09:11   

Davey,

You made a bet that you could prove portuguese is a mixture of Spanish and french.

I took your bet. This is the place for you to put up or just let me write a post on your blog.

I will attempt to show you why, not just that you are wrong. but that your statement was stupid and wrong thinking.

Ball's in your court. :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,11:09   

you should repost the exact post where you made the terms of the wager.

no possibility of Dave claiming he was confused then.

I'll be happy to act as witness.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,11:30   

afdave
Quote
Posted: May 18 2006,22:21    

...Yes.  I knew about the planet thing.  I actually speak quite a bit of Spanish and Portuguese (which of course is Spanish and French mixed).

afdave
Quote
Here's the specific statement that I am defending:

1)  AF Dave says that Spanish and Portuguese were essentially the same language until 1143 AD when Portugal broke away from Spanish control under a French nobleman by the name of Henry of Burgundy.  From this point on, the languages diverged into the modern situation.  The primary influence on the linguistic divergence was the French language.

2)  Rilke and Toejam say I am wrong

How much are you willing to bet?  



afdave  
Quote

Posted: May 19 2006,08:37  
Rilke--

You keep saying I'm wrong, but you haven't put your money where your mouth is.  Just tell me how much money it's going to be ...

$500 says I can prove my statement (my later, more specific statement).  Are you willing to put up $500 and prove me wrong?

You know the wager ... it's as clear as a bell ...

Now are you going to back up your claim?  Or are you going to retract it and apologize?  Or shall I embarrass you publicly in front of all your friends?

Your choice, sweetie.

BWE  
Quote

Posted: May 19 2006,14:22  
Davey-dog. You are an idiot. Define Spanish. Be careful, that's a trick question. Next Define spanish around the time of song of roland.  

I'll take your bet. But the stakes are different. If I win, I get to write a post on your blog, if you win, you get to write a post for my blog. and one more thing, please answer some age of the earth questions.


Just because I think you are stupid, I am not going to do any preliminary research.

And I am making some assumptions about your claim:

1) the portuguese language substantially changed beginning in the year 1143.

2) The Spanish you are referring to is Castilian

3) The french language and the Castillian language are the major components of modern Portuguese.

4) the dialect of Portuguese you are referring to is the one spoken in Lisbon.

5) That you are making an all or nothing claim similar to  your others (there are no gray areas)
link

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,12:01   

clear as a bell.

"Flightless" Dave is starting to look ever more like another flightless bird...

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,12:32   

On the subject of Dave's unfinished business and his intemperate statements about language, I'd like to 'enter this into the record': a few weeks ago, when trying to show that the newness of writing 'proved' a Young Earth, he stated that all the Indians of North and South America originally had writing but later lost it. Naturally, he offered absolutely no evidence for this, and when I demanded he prove this statement he of course never replied.

In fact, I can't even imagine where he got that idea. It sounds too complicated for him to create himself, so I assume he plucked it off some especially crackpotty Creationist book or website.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,12:42   

Uh-oh, smells kinda Mormony to me.  "Angel Moroni" and all that jizz.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,18:32   

As in apache, navajo, comanche et al?

I missed that one. I'm not doing as much reading as I could.

I would love to see his evidence. I am 1/8 Nez Perce (Idaho tribe) and that side of my family takes their history pretty seriously. Apparently we Nez Perce built a pretty complicated culture off a plains style rulebook. Hearing my grandpa talking about it you would think they invented the wheel or thew shovel or something. He's dead now but this would vindicate a lot of the things he said.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,18:52   

Davey, read this :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,18:55   

Quote (Lou FCD @ June 18 2006,17:42)
Uh-oh, smells kinda Mormony to me.  "Angel Moroni" and all that jizz.

I don't buy AFD as a Mormon. He would have mentioned it by now, plus his dad was an SIL missionary in South America, and they're all Baptists.

But I agree, it does smell like one of those daffy myths that unhinged Fundies think up when they're going senile.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1773
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,19:19   

Looks like we'll have to add one more descriptive term to QFDave's resume:

Loser
Liar
Lunatic
Welcher

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
bfish



Posts: 267
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 18 2006,20:43   

Quote (Lou FCD @ June 18 2006,17:42)
Uh-oh, smells kinda Mormony to me.  "Angel Moroni" and all that jizz.


That reminds me....

Can I just put in a complete non-sequiter here and ask that the New England Patriot's first round draft pick be henceforth referred to as Laurence "The Angel" Maroney?

And if that works out, maybe we could go back in time and call the former New Hampshire Governor, "Jean Jean The Dancing Shaheen."

Sigh. It's late.

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,13:00   

A non-sequiter seems totally in order on this thread.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 21 2006,21:55   

Dang, this is getting frustrating, I even offered to take the other position and let him have mine. Still nothing.

Davey Dickhead
Missed out on the Special Ed
That could have fixed his head

Cause he was stuck 'neath The Bong Bong Leaves
Pulling on his Reverend daddy's sleeves
Saying "When we take their stuff does it make us theives?"

His reverend daddy said:
Son they'd be better off dead
Than miss out on the lord's spread

So what we're giving in return is grace
Something in short supply in this godforsaken place
And when they see the color of the chief's new baby's face
We'll be gone son, without a trace.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 22 2006,12:19   

Quote (BWE @ June 22 2006,02:55)
Dang, this is getting frustrating, I even offered to take the other position and let him have mine. Still nothing.

You might have better results if you post your challenge on "AF Dave's Creator God Wild-Ass Guess" thread. I don't think he's reading any other threads, and with the amount of rocks and garbage he's being pelted with on his own thread, I frankly don't think he has the time.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,07:15   

Maybe we should add the "Founding fathers designed a Christian Nation" to his beauties outside of science.

I'd love to have a go at that one. Sounds like a few others might too.

Stakes: Winner gets to post on the other's blog.??

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,08:13   

How would Dave know if he won the debate? What criteria are you using?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,08:48   

Good point. Dave thinks he's won every single debate he's had here, including the "Portuguese" debate, and the "Tyre" debate as well, evidently.

I think Wesley's turned off polls here, but I'd think the way to prove who won a debate would be who a majority of posters thinks won.

Somehow, I don't imagine Dave would accept that, since he'd have to accept the fact that he's lost every debate he's engaged in.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,08:51   

Good Question GoP, Any suggestions?

I'd have to say that it ought to show that the Constitution and declaration of Independence (or the philosophy that underpins the documents??) were essentially an attempt to create a Christian Nation- although that is pretty nebulous.

Undoubtably, there were Christians at the constitutional convention so I guess the debate might hinge around whether their ideas were the ones that ultimately led to the final draft.

So first, I guess we need to establish "who" were the founding fathers and rank them in importance relating to the writing of the doc's. Then we need to try to determine where their philosophical roots came from individually and whether they thought that the US should be a christian Nation.

Maybe then a score card that ranks the relative importance of each and their "christianity" level?

Anyone have any ideas?

It gets tricky because Tom Paine was very instrumental in developing the ideals that led to the documents as well as others who weren't part of the writing process.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,09:04   

Quote
I think Wesley's turned off polls here, but I'd think the way to prove who won a debate would be who a majority of posters thinks won.

Somehow, I don't imagine Dave would accept that, since he'd have to accept the fact that he's lost every debate he's engaged in.


Well, you have to admit this isn't the most neutral audience around. Would you be willing to tell BWE that he lost a debate to a "panty-dancing tard"*, even if that were the case?

 
Quote
Good Question GoP, Any suggestions?


Nothing other than being very precise on what Dave would have to show. For example, on the Founders issue you could stipulate that if finds a private letter from Thomas Jefferson expressing a belief in Christianity, then he wins on T.J. unless you can find later declarations that overturn it. Of course, he's got his work cut out for him what with the Jefferson Bible, his love of Hobbes, etc......

*not my opinion

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,09:30   

As I like to point out, anyone who claims that the Founding Fathers wanted the US to be 'a Christian Nation' is faced with the difficult task of explaining why the Declaration of Independence and Constitution never once mention Jesus or Christianity. When Iran wanted to set themselves up to be an Islamic Nation, they didn't commit any huge oversight like that.

It was a long time ago, so blaming the ACLU isn't an option.

Natch, explaining away the first third of the First Amendment isn't easy, either.

However, if your goal here is to make AFDave admit he was wrong about something, all I can say is that I hope there's longevity in your family.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,09:49   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Sep. 11 2006,14:04)
Quote
I think Wesley's turned off polls here, but I'd think the way to prove who won a debate would be who a majority of posters thinks won.

Somehow, I don't imagine Dave would accept that, since he'd have to accept the fact that he's lost every debate he's engaged in.


Well, you have to admit this isn't the most neutral audience around. Would you be willing to tell BWE that he lost a debate to a "panty-dancing tard"*, even if that were the case?

   
Quote
Good Question GoP, Any suggestions?


Nothing other than being very precise on what Dave would have to show. For example, on the Founders issue you could stipulate that if finds a private letter from Thomas Jefferson expressing a belief in Christianity, then he wins on T.J. unless you can find later declarations that overturn it. Of course, he's got his work cut out for him what with the Jefferson Bible, his love of Hobbes, etc......

*not my opinion

Jeeze, I hope no one would mind telling me I lost. I am setting this up the same way as before. I have done no real research at all. I just know that Davey is so stupid that he can't make sense out of his own excrement. I could be totally wrong.

Frankly, I don't care if they were christian or not. We aren't anymore.  :p  :p  :p
(And I won't debate that one)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,10:02   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Sep. 11 2006,14:04)
 
Quote
I think Wesley's turned off polls here, but I'd think the way to prove who won a debate would be who a majority of posters thinks won.

Somehow, I don't imagine Dave would accept that, since he'd have to accept the fact that he's lost every debate he's engaged in.


Well, you have to admit this isn't the most neutral audience around. Would you be willing to tell BWE that he lost a debate to a "panty-dancing tard"*, even if that were the case?

Sure. Bill, I had no particular reason to doubt Dave's expertise in areas other than evolution before he started posting about them. After all, there are plenty of creationists out there who have expertise in other areas (and a disturbingly large number of them are engineers). When Dave started talking about Portuguese, I had no reason to think he was wrong (and in fact said that I didn't know whether he was wrong or not). But when I saw how he was completely unable to back up his assertions, it eventually became clear that he was talking out of his ass.

I have no reason to doubt that Dave knows something about some area of human knowledge, and if he demonstrates such knowledge, I'll be the first to admit it. If he could have backed up his "Portuguese" claims, I wouldn't have had any trouble at all congratulating him. He11, if he could have backed up his "Tyre" claims, I would have done the same. (There must be a few things the Bible got right, just out of sheer luck if nothing else.)

But Dave has never been able to back up any claims he's made. Which is frankly rather astonishing. But don't worry: if Dave can win an argument, I'll be first to congratulate him. And I have little doubt that others here will do so as well.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,11:13   

Perhaps I should rephrase. Would Jon, Nine, Arfin, and Rev. Jim ever decide in Dave's favor? Call me cynical, but I doubt it. Stevestory would probably hold his nose & judge fairly, but BWE's got the swing vote IMHO.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,11:41   

gawp, you still don't get it, do you?

Why DO you hang around here if you think the majority around here ignore evidence in favor of pre-existing bias?

You obviously think you present "evidence" in favor of your arguments, yes?

so why do you bother if you think we are all biased?

Your logic fails you, as usual.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,12:31   

Quote
Perhaps I should rephrase. Would Jon, Nine, Arfin, and Rev. Jim ever decide in Dave's favor? Call me cynical, but I doubt it. Stevestory would probably hold his nose & judge fairly, but BWE's got the swing vote IMHO.


Ho ho. All this from the man who gets his stats on black-on-white crime from White supremacist websites.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,13:28   

Swing Vote?

He11, I'll take the other side on this one too (like I offered on the portuguese thing) if DaveyDH can't figure out how to support his side. Go ahead DaveyDH, take the easy side. I'll try to convince them that the US was intended to be a christian nation by the founders.

Actually, I don't care which side I take. My hypothesis, based on the evidence so far, is that DaveyDH is too stupid to find his ass even though his head is buried in it.

One caveat: If I take the stupid side, er, Christian side, you all have to help DaveyDH. (to try to keep him honest).

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,13:38   

Arfin:

Quote
Ho ho. All this from the man who gets his stats on black-on-white crime from White supremacist websites.


And wins the debate.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,13:54   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 11 2006,13:51)
I'd have to say that it ought to show that the Constitution and declaration of Independence (or the philosophy that underpins the documents??) were essentially an attempt to create a Christian Nation- although that is pretty nebulous.

First off, you could probably not bother spending much time looking at the Declaration of Independence.  It was just that, a declaration of independence from the British Crown. It lays out the case for independence by detailing the injuries suffered by America at the hands of the British.  It really does not speak to the type of government we intended to establish.

There are several mentions of God and Creator, but they need to be taken in context.  The Declaration was mostly written by Thomas Jefferson, an avowed deist.  He used those terms interchangeably with "providence." The subtlety of the usage would probably be lost (or misconstrued) by Dave and lead to a Portugeuse moment.
     
Quote

Undoubtably, there were Christians at the constitutional convention so I guess the debate might hinge around whether their ideas were the ones that ultimately led to the final draft.

So first, I guess we need to establish "who" were the founding fathers and rank them in importance relating to the writing of the doc's. Then we need to try to determine where their philosophical roots came from individually and whether they thought that the US should be a christian Nation.

Maybe then a score card that ranks the relative importance of each and their "christianity" level?

Anyone have any ideas?

Way too complex.  The obvious place to start is the Federalist Papers.  But, beyond that and directly to your point, you are in luck.  James Madison, the key architect of the US Constitution, took copious notes at the 1787 Constitutional Convention. You can find them here. I've seen it at the bookstore and, as notes of the discussion and debate, it is not an easy read.  But, I am led to understand that it is a pretty comprehensive record of the proceedings.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,13:54   

Quote
And wins the debate.


..and sounds more and more like AFDumbass all the time...

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,14:00   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Sep. 11 2006,18:38)
Arfin:

   
Quote
Ho ho. All this from the man who gets his stats on black-on-white crime from White supremacist websites.


And wins the debate.

Which one, the one about the sun going around the earth, or the one about the world being 6,000 years old, or the one about the stars being a couple thousand miles away, or the impossibility of 'diversity and freedom' co-existing? I can't keep track.

Maybe the one about Hitler being a liberal atheist Wiccan Communist?

Liberals all reading Foucault?

Muslims all flipping out and becoming terrorists?

You've successfully defended *so many* of your ideas here, Paley.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2006,14:20   

Actually, I'm willing to be a little loosy goosy on this one. In fact, I would prefer it. :)

I feel like I shouldn't comment much before I know which side I am taking though. ???

I'd hate to ruin my own argument. :p

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2006,06:07   

Well, Add "The Keynesian Myth" to the list.

I suppose, to be consistent, I should offer to take either side of that one too.

Debate would be the accuracy of the phrase.

DaveyDH, the man who loves the man behind the curtain. (like brokeback style)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2006,06:13   

BWE, I really think AFD has no intention of wandering into this thread and engaging this argument...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2006,06:19   

You think?

I still have a candle lit.  :)

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2006,05:53   

Quote
Ho ho. All this from the man who gets his stats on black-on-white crime from White supremacist websites.
to which GoP responds:
Quote
And wins the debate.
causing me to muse:
Quote
How would Dave GoP know if he won the debate? What criteria are you using?


I'm going to give GoP the benefit of the doubt here, and assume the irony is intentional.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
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