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  Topic: Are Lesbiand really gay?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,05:50   

In the gay genes threads, much of the anti-gay commentary seems to be directed at male homosexuals rather than gays in general.  Are female gays less gay than male gays?  Do we need a scale of gayness?

Or are the objectors secretly turned on by gay women??  Or are they men repressing their own homosexual instincts???

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,05:54   

These are all very important questions, but there's one even more vital issue we must get out of the way first: is it too late for you to fix that typo on 'Lesbiand'? It's gonna bug the shlt outta me til it's fixed...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,06:15   

To put it as simply as possible:
homophobic men are scared of teh buttsex.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,06:36   

There is nothing secret about lesbians being a turn-on for me. In fact it is the only reason I would consider a sex change.

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,06:37   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 25 2006,10:54)
These are all very important questions, but there's one even more vital issue we must get out of the way first: is it too late for you to fix that typo on 'Lesbiand'? It's gonna bug the shlt outta me til it's fixed...

I do not have the authority to fix the typo as far as I can see.  I think you need to ask a friendly admin  :)

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,06:53   

Quote (MidnightVoice @ April 25 2006,11:37)
[quote=Arden Chatfield,April 25 2006,10:54]These are all very important questions, but there's one even more vital issue we must get out of the way first: is it too late for you to fix that typo on 'Lesbiand'? It's gonna bug the shlt outta me til it's fixed...

Quote
I do not have the authority to fix the typo as far as I can see.  I think you need to ask a friendly admin  :)

I was afraid you were going to say that.  :(

Anyway, I can't tell you how many virulently homophobic men I've known who were turned on by lesbiands. Probably all of them, actually. The venom all seems to be saved for male gays, except perhaps for some of the hyperfundie types. When you point out that their generalizations about gays fail to apply to gay women, they just change the subject.

I suspect that most homophobia derives from the phobic's own severely repressed fears as well as some kind of baboon-level competitiveness with other males. That is, if I can convince myself that gay men are horrible and convince others that you're gay, then I have a way of establishing some kind of cheap dominance over you. You get to maybe work your way up one more notch toward coveted beta male status.

That said, I have known a few gay women who seemed to believe that gay men and gay women are different species of humans, no more similar to each other than either is to straights. Like a fourth gender. There's a huge variety of thought on this that I couldn't begin to summarize.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,07:16   

Quote
I suspect that most homophobia derives from the phobic's own severely repressed fears as well as some kind of baboon-level competitiveness with other males. That is, if I can convince myself that gay men are horrible and convince others that you're gay, then I have a way of establishing some kind of cheap dominance over you. You get to maybe work your way up one more notch toward coveted beta male status.

This seems quite true, but paradoxical to logic.  If anything, straight men should be completely accepting of gay men.  Gay men are voluntarily taking themselves out of the competition for women.  I'm all for that.  Not that I have trouble attracting females, but every little bit helps.  Lesbiand on the otherhand, increase my competition.  Sure, I find them attractive, too.  But, logic says I shouldn't.

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,07:22   

I guess the big question is  "Why did the Intelligent Designer design things this way?"  :D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1773
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,07:24   

Quote
There is nothing secret about lesbians being a turn-on for me. In fact it is the only reason I would consider a sex change.


I've had to consider the possibility that I'm really a lesbian trapped in a man's body.  ;)  After all, I always felt safer on a girl's bike.  Why should the one with the balls get the one with the bar?

(with apologies to Gallagher)

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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,07:30   

Quote (cogzoid @ April 25 2006,12:16)
Quote
I suspect that most homophobia derives from the phobic's own severely repressed fears as well as some kind of baboon-level competitiveness with other males. That is, if I can convince myself that gay men are horrible and convince others that you're gay, then I have a way of establishing some kind of cheap dominance over you. You get to maybe work your way up one more notch toward coveted beta male status.

This seems quite true, but paradoxical to logic.  If anything, straight men should be completely accepting of gay men.  Gay men are voluntarily taking themselves out of the competition for women.  I'm all for that.  Not that I have trouble attracting females, but every little bit helps. Lesbiand on the otherhand, increase my competition.  Sure, I find them attractive, too.  But, logic says I shouldn't.

What I've always been amused by is the paradox of misogyny so often going hand in hand with homophobia. You'd think they'd be mutually exclusive, but nope. "You kissed a GIRL? That is so GAY!"

I think the reason so many straight men are attracted by lesbiands is because they represent women having sex without other men around -- that way they don't have to 'compete' with males, plus they don't run the risk of seeing other men naked, which is something gay men do.

Hey, I didn't say it made sense...

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,07:40   

[Speaking of people who don't make sense, let's just hope we can keep Thordaddy out of this thread.]

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,08:17   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 25 2006,12:30)
I think the reason so many straight men are attracted by lesbiands is because they represent women having sex without other men around -- that way they don't have to 'compete' with males, plus they don't run the risk of seeing other men naked, which is something gay men do.

I wonder if it doesn't also have something to do with our culture.  We regularly regard men as being promiscuous, while women are supposed to be demure.  When we see 2 women together, we are seeing women act in a way that we've been taught is taboo, but gets at the secret fantasies of men to have a sexually adventurous woman.  So, we get excited by it.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:04   

I think most normal males have both a natural attraction to females and intimacy with females while simultaneously having an aversion to anything relating to male intimacy.

So obviously, 2 lesbiands wouldn't not present the same scenario as 2 homosexuads.

I turn away from lesbiands on principle since the natural attraction to females is not an adequate evolutionary orientation.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:15   

fine. more lesbiands for me.

   
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:16   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 25 2006,15:04)
I think most normal males have both a natural attraction to females and intimacy with females while simultaneously having an aversion to anything relating to male intimacy.

So obviously, 2 lesbiands wouldn't not present the same scenario as 2 homosexuads.

Indeed, lesbians are not attracted towards males, your logic just baffles me.  :0

  
Ved



Posts: 398
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:25   

Quote
I turn away from lesbiands on principle since the natural attraction to females is not an adequate evolutionary orientation.

Heh, what's the big deal here anyway? I mean evolution doesn't work, right? So, there's nothing anyone can do to screw up the evolutionary process of mankind, not even by turning lesbiand, because evolution is not happening!  :p

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:36   

Ved,

I would say that evolution "works" if the male is attracted to the female in an intimate manner while being averted to male intimacy.

I think evolution becomes more suspect when it tries to justify homosexuality.  It's rather pointless in the whole reproduction/survival scenario.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:46   

:04-->
Quote (thordaddy @ April 25 2006,15:04)
I think most normal males have both a natural attraction to females and intimacy with females while simultaneously having an aversion to anything relating to male intimacy.

So obviously, 2 lesbiands wouldn't not present the same scenario as 2 homosexuads.

'Obviously'??

Wait, I'm confused -- how on earth does your second statement there follow from your first statement?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:48   

Why are you against things that 'go against evolution'?

  
Jay Ray



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:52   

To answer the originating question, as if it were a sincere question:  YES

Why am I turned on by lesbiands?

Easy.

One sexah femme, lesbiand or otherwise, is good.

Two sexah femmes at the same time is doubleplusgood!

No big mystery to me.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,10:57   

Peter Gibbons: What would you do if you had a million dollars?
Lawrence: I'll tell you what I'd do, man, two chicks at the same time, man.
Peter Gibbons: That's it? If you had a million dollars, you'd do two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: D*mn straight. I always wanted to do that, man. And I think if I had a million dollars I could hook that up, cause chicks dig a dude with money.
Peter Gibbons: Well, not all chicks.
Lawrence: Well the kind of chicks that'd double up on a dude like me do.
Peter Gibbons: Good point.
Lawrence: Well what about you now? what would you do?
Peter Gibbons: Besides two chicks at the same time?
Lawrence: Well yeah.
Peter Gibbons: Nothing.
Lawrence: Nothing, huh?
Peter Gibbons: I'd relax, I would sit on my ass all day, I would do nothing.
Lawrence: Well you don't need a million dollars to do nothing, man. Just take a look at my cousin, he's broke, don't do shit.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stephenWells



Posts: 127
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,11:57   

The interesting point isn't whether homophobes are turned on by lesbians. I think most straight guys are turned on by lesbians on the "more!" principle. The interesting point is whether homophobes are turned on by gay men. I think I've seen a study on this point though I don't have a reference.

A lot of that venom is coming from men who've been told that gays bad, all gays bad always, and then they find themselves musing a little too long over some quarterback's ass cheeks and OMG the defensive mechanisms kick in... they're trying to prove something to themselves.

Me, I'm straight, and when I think about sex I think about straight sex, mostly. The really rabid homophobes, they think about sex, they think about gay sex. Conclusions?

  
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,13:49   

Y'know, I don't think this forum has gone far enough in our discussion of various sexual orientations and their effects on science, religion and society.

So here's a question: when a gay man and a lesbiand have sex, is it gay sex?

If a gay man and a lesbiand get married, is that bad for the american family? (Bonus question: how about if it's fictional, but it's on prime-time network TV?)

C'mon people. Let's take it higher!

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,14:03   

Plus, if a gay man or a lesbiand get married, and they adopt a child to break up the American family. How likely is it that the child will burn down a church?

And don't get me started on the implications for teaching evolution in schools.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,14:06   

does the kid have ebola, or not?

   
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,14:19   

Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ April 25 2006,18:49)
Y'know, I don't think this forum has gone far enough in our discussion of various sexual orientations and their effects on science, religion and society.

So here's a question: when a gay man and a lesbiand have sex, is it gay sex?

If a gay man and a lesbiand get married, is that bad for the american family? (Bonus question: how about if it's fictional, but it's on prime-time network TV?)

C'mon people. Let's take it higher!

There was a young gay from Khartoum
Who to a prostitute up to his room
They argued all night
About who had the right
To what, with what, and to whom.

:D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,14:40   

Quote (MidnightVoice @ April 25 2006,10:50)
Or are the objectors secretly turned on by gay women??  Or are they men repressing their own homosexual instincts???

I saw this t-shirt once that said, "I'm only in favor of gay marriage if the chicks are hot."

I wonder what Bill would make of that.

Probable more evidence evidence, if any were needed, of the moral corruption of multiculturalism.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,14:41   

Quote
does the kid have ebola, or not?
With that kind of upbringing are you kidding?. Did i mention his parents were both evolutionists.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,15:29   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ April 25 2006,19:41)
Quote
does the kid have ebola, or not?
With that kind of upbringing are you kidding?. Did i mention his parents were both evolutionists.

Help me out here, did believing evolution make them gay, or did being gay make them believe in evolution?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,15:31   

believing in evolution made them have a gay marriage, whereupon the scale-free network catastrophe occurred, and gave him ebola.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,16:16   

Quote (ericmurphy @ April 25 2006,19:40)
Quote (MidnightVoice @ April 25 2006,10:50)
Or are the objectors secretly turned on by gay women??  Or are they men repressing their own homosexual instincts???

I saw this t-shirt once that said, "I'm only in favor of gay marriage if the chicks are hot."

I wonder what Bill would make of that.

Probable more evidence evidence, if any were needed, of the moral corruption of multiculturalism.

Who's 'Bill'?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,17:00   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 25 2006,21:16)
Who's 'Bill'?

The Reverend William Paley, obviously. Or, his immortal soul, at any rate, damned to wander the earth for all time, for god knows what reason, but I have a few suspicions...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,17:24   

Quote (ericmurphy @ April 25 2006,22<!--emo&:0)
[quote=Arden Chatfield,April 25 2006,21:16]Who's 'Bill'?

The Reverend William Paley, obviously. Or, his immortal soul, at any rate, damned to wander the earth for all time, for god knows what reason, but I have a few suspicions...

Ah, so that's who that weird guy was who kept bugging me last Christmas eve, showing me all this icky stuff from my past and getting on my case about having being 'selfish' all my life!

I thought maybe you meant the Alcoholics Anonymous 'Bill'.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 25 2006,18:35   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 25 2006,22:24)

Ah, so that's who that weird guy was who kept bugging me last Christmas eve, showing me all this icky stuff from my past and getting on my case about having being 'selfish' all my life!

I thought maybe you meant the Alcoholics Anonymous 'Bill'.

Shade o' Paley showed up at your place last Christmas? He was supposed to be working on his geocentric cosmological model, dammit!

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 26 2006,05:07   

Quote (stevestory @ April 25 2006,20:31)
believing in evolution made them have a gay marriage, whereupon the scale-free network catastrophe occurred, and gave him ebola.

You forgot AIDS. The kids have a hight probability to cumulate both diseases, since at least one of their parents certainly had anal sex with some african (you know, the sort of human with a lower IQ).

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,02:56   

Quote (stevestory @ April 25 2006,20:31)
believing in evolution made them have a gay marriage, whereupon the scale-free network catastrophe occurred, and gave him ebola.

Man, if signatures weren't so much against my internet beliefs, I would definitely sig that.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,03:13   

Yeah, signatures are crap. Imagine you saw your friend several times a day, and each time he closed the conversation with the same clever quote. Be kind of annoying after a week, no?

   
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,03:33   

You mean like seeing the same old picture attached to someones name day after day?
;)


My sig on a different forum goes something like:
"Warning!  The above writing is only my opinion based upon my limited view of reality, and should not be used as an actual guide to reality."

A useful caveat I find.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,03:35   

I don't think pics are remotely as annoying as sigs. Except for animated ones.

   
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,04:22   

I find pics and sigs annoying sometimes, but the animated ones that take ages to download really annoy me.  

HHmm, I wonder if the creationists will start making their own animated pics, say of white haired old men in vices, or strange, physically impossible events during the flood, or suchlike.

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,07:16   

Quote (guthrie @ April 28 2006,08:33)
My sig on a different forum goes something like:
"Warning!  The above writing is only my opinion based upon my limited view of reality, and should not be used as an actual guide to reality."

A useful caveat I find.

I sometimes mention in mine that "This is nly a message board.  It is not real life"

:D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,11:21   

Back on topic.

I guess the root of the matter is that the Bible can be interpreted as saying "men should not lay with men", but as far as I remember it is mute on the topic of women laying with women.  So I guess to the homophobic right, taking the Bible literaly, lesbians are acceptable but gay men are not.  :D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,11:34   

According to Crazy Carol, the bible, read correctly, only prohibits unprotected homosexual anal sex. IIRC.

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 05 2006,11:55   

Suuure. I remember that one. It goes something like

Thou shalt not bugger thy neighbor without wearing a sheath on thy willie.

Coveting thy neighbor's willie-sheath is right out.

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
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