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  Topic: Clone Wars, Response to ARN Wedge Weekly< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
niiicholas



Posts: 319
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 13 2003,22:17   

Originally posted here.

Quote

January 13, 2003

ID and Human Cloning

By Paul Nesselroade

Does the Intelligent Design (ID) movement have anything to say about current experimentation with human cloning?


Clearly, starting points are critical in shaping how we view the appropriateness of any action. If our starting point is the belief that human life was accidental and brought about solely by the impersonal forces of natural selection and random mutation, then, any purpose or meaning for life has to be assigned by us, chiseled out of the void of meaninglessness with our own hands. Starting here, the idea of cloning new life explicitly for the enhancement of our own lives (through organ replacement, stem cell harvesting, or for reproductive purposes) can be legitimized. The human ‘cost’ associated with both fine-tuning the cloning process (animal cloning rarely results in birth and virtually all of those born have serious abnormalities and/or die early) and creating life expressly for sacrificial purposes, may be considered unfortunate, but can hardly be considered wrong.

(bolds added)


Strange that this ARN missive doesn't recognize the Raelian's oh-so-crucial "starting point":

Quote

Evidence
Introduction

Supporting evidence

Welcome to the Evidence page, a subsection of the Raelian Revolution website.

If we truly were created by people from space, then there would be traces of this creation in our history, mythology and religion, be it Judaic, Buddhist, Christian, Islamic or other. Science should confirm this and there should be UFOlogical evidence of them monitoring our progres and even visitations.

In fact, if one takes the trouble to look, this is exactly the case and the horisontal navigation bar above provides links to such evidence including a bibliography section listing references and authors whose totally independent conclusions support the validity of the Raelian Message.

[...]

Supporting evidence p. 3

EMBARRASSING QUESTIONS FOR THE EVOLUTIONISTS
For 20 years, the Raelian vision of "scientific creationism" : a step ahead of science ?

It is striking to note that while the Raelian theory is being confirmed by a continual series of scientific discoveries, the theory of Evolution is, on the other hand, being increasingly challenged as its old questions remain unanswered and even more embarrassing new questions are appearing.


An anti-evolutionist system in our genes:

Perhaps the most awkward question today for the theory of evolution is the one raised by the recently discovered p53 and since then a mutlitude of others - the DNA repair mechanism. This has been found to be common to all mammals and repairs damaged DNA. If the damage is too great to repair, it organises the cell's self-destruction.

Therefore if any defect in the transcription of the genetic code arises, (the foundation on which evolution is based) then this repair or programmed cell death mechanism will remove such a mutation. If not, then the organism as a whole will die of cancer.

This control system is clearly present to avoid all mutation. Thus, if this system is common to all mammals, according to the theory of Evolution, it should also be present in the common ancestors of mammals.

If it were present in our ancestors, how were they able to diversify in order to render so many different species ? This is clearly a major contradiction which can only put a serious doubt on the theory of evolution.

[...]



[Bibliography]

Here you will find other resource material  which support the messages given  to Rael by the Elohim
- in whole or in part.

[...]

The Triumph of Design

The Triumph of Design clearly and dramatically shows the gaping holes in Darwinian theory and the mounting evidence for the intelligent design of the universe. This video features Phillip Johnson, the distinguished law professor from the University of California, Berkeley whose best-selling book, Darwin On Trial, re-ignited the evolution controversy in the early 1990's. (more info)



Evolution - Fact or Belief ?
( also released in French as "Enquetes & Reportages")

More and more scientists are abandoning the Evolution Theory on the grounds that it is contrary to the basic laws of modern science. They maintain that it is a philosophy, not a science.
This video interviews scientists from around the world to find out why they do not accept evolution as a reasonable explanation for the origin of man and the universe.


I do agree with the ARN wedge update about one thing: your starting point is important.  For instance, if you start out by ignoring evidence contrary to your position, there is no end to the silly conclusions you will come to.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2003,09:13   

Human Cloning Takes a Hit, Thanks to Bizarre Cult Claim

Quote
"Once the shock of what has happened wears off, you are easily on a slippery slope to more (cloning) applications and attempts," said Fuz Rana, vice president of science apologetics for Reasons to Believe, a Christian organization in California that concentrates on issues of science and faith. "The one thing I am hoping is that maybe the Christian community can exploit the fact that Clonaid was involved in the first attempt at human cloning. The fact that it was a UFO group makes it much more repugnant than if it was done by pristine scientists in white lab coats."


Fuz Rana also happened to be a featured speaker at the Biola University "Research and Progress in Intelligent Design" conference last fall.  Notice that Rana seeks to exploit "repugnance" based solely upon who allegedly cloned a human, rather than whatever arguments may be offered.  This is a pretty straightforward repudiation of the usual Discovery Institute line that "motivations" don't count in arguments, just the validity of the arguments themselves.

Wesley

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
charlie d



Posts: 56
Joined: Oct. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2003,10:56   

Interesting.
Considering that, at this point, one arguably has to grant the Raelians primacy in the formulation of a "modern" biological design theory (and the only one with a clealry stated and active research program, to boot), one would hope the same standards will be applied to intelligent design. To paraphase:
"The one thing I am hoping is that maybe the Christian community can exploit the fact that the Rael was involved in the first attempt at proposing a "scientific" version of Intelligent Design. The fact that it was a UFO group makes it much more repugnant than if it was done by pristine philosophers and theologians."

In alternative, some of the ID advocates could try to explain to the public how exactly their form of ID differs from the Raelians'.

  
RBH



Posts: 49
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2003,13:08   

"Primacy," maybe, but not sole ownership - don't forget MDT! :)  

I am pursuing (as time allows) some of the designer-discrimination methodological ideas associated with MDT.  As I said in my post in response to Mike Gene's tantrum on ARN, that's not a frivolous exercise.

RBH

--------------
"There are only two ways we know of to make extremely complicated things, one is by engineering, and the other is evolution. And of the two, evolution will make the more complex." - Danny Hillis.

  
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