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Date: 2006/01/27 07:54:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well, I personally can't seem to find any solid definition for IC that doesn't change on a weekly/daily/as necessary basis.  What gets me chuckling every single time the subject comes up though, is a picture of Mr. Behe sitting in a courtroom Oh-So-Seriously talking about some bacterium Self-flagellating while intoning something in Latin.  Think Holy Grail.  Yep, I need to grow up, but yep, it's funny.  How Judge Jones kept a straight face, I'll never know.

Date: 2006/01/27 08:05:35, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Oh, come on.  You know Carol.  If you want to know what she thinks, buy the book.  You know the one.  The one, single, holy, divinely inspired, has no errors, doesn't conflict with science, says the sun went round the earth backward, "kill every man, woman, child, and animal on that land because I'm giving it to my chosen people", translated by a fella she just happens to be doing business for book.

Date: 2006/01/27 08:19:17, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Wow, I've read a little on this at a couple of sites.  This is the kind of stuff that really gets my interest and attention.  Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the shuttle, the moon, mars, or our cute yellow star for any other reason than getting to these places is the first step in getting someplace interesting.  I'm waiting for the day I (more likely my grand or great grand children) can get on a star ship and GO to some other rocky planet and talk to the locals.  (My first question would be "excuse me, are you the intelligent designer?") Of course, they'll all speak English. Seriously, before I die, I just want to go to one place where life has evolved other than Earth, just to see what it looks like.  Every discovery like this brings us one step closer to doing just that.

Date: 2006/01/27 14:31:09, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Just came across this article on CNN.com World without Pain is #### So is the ID an Idiot or just an AHole?  Really.  What kind of being would supposedly do something like this to a child? I'm finding a lot of sites that discuss what the genetic defect is, but not much dealing with research in fixing it.  Honestly, most of the technical stuff is over my head (I'm a carpenter, not a doctor, Jim! ) but the short version seems to be "he has a messed up gene".  I sort of get that this is an example of genetic mutation, right?   Anyone want to dumb the science down for me?  What sort of research is going on that might hold hope for correcting such a problem?  Perhaps an explanation in English for this page- Oxford Journals ? At the end of the Oxford Journal page, the author comments about developing a drug, but how would the drug work?  Is it a matter of somehow swapping out the defective gene, or getting some gene that's "off" to turn "on" or something? Oh, and if it's ok, could we keep the "if you eat steak, you get cow DNA" type of nonsense to a minimum?

Date: 2006/03/08 09:20:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well said, Julie.  All of the above are completely Irrelevent to science.  Light still travels the same speed, organisms evolve, and if I add two H's to an O, I still get water.  A person's god, gods, or godess (or lack thereof) are about as relevent as the tooth fairy. I have recently come to the conclusion (because some bible thumper knocked on my door on a Saturday morning and asked me "well what are you?") that I am neither theist, nor atheist.  I hereby declare myself an irreleventist.  I give permission to anyone who cares to, to join the church of irrelevence, to spread the gospel, and snicker at everyone else, so long as they remember that I coined the phrase.  Ramen.

Date: 2006/03/08 09:55:21, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

J.G. suggested that  "Having a real evolutionary biologist co-author will help you, er, avoid such mistakes." So will a big stick to knock some sense in.

Date: 2006/05/25 05:06:02, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I see a slippery slope with the "x is ok, but 1.2x is abuse" thing.  I don't claim to know where to draw the line, but clearly a line must be drawn somewhere. I am also an ex-fundy.  Before getting sucked in, I wanted nothing more in life than to be an astonomer and/or astrophysicist.  Once the hook was in, I withdrew from public school and paid my own way through christian high school, where most of the non-religion classes were comprised of material I learned in grade school.  I then attended Bob Jones University in SC.  At the end of the first semester, I was asked to leave Blow Job U. because I was asking too many questions and not liking the answers I got.  It was just the beginning of a long road of awakening from a drug-induced-coma-like state. I then spent quite a few years drifting around through life, became an electrician by accident, and though I eventually tried to go back to college, I didn't finish.  Being a single dad, divorced, and working in a bar wasn't terribly conducive to getting an education.  I'm not whining, and I know it's certainly possible to do, but it's much harder than being 18 with support from home.  It's a situation I should never have been in, and indeed would not have been in, were it not for the creeps peddling this crap. Look, I am personally 100% responsible for the choices I make and I make no bones about that.  But the fundgelical movement absolutely, positively caused harm in my case.  Though I have long since dumped most of the emotional baggage of fairy-tale bullshit, twenty years on I'm still feeling the effects and consequences of what I allowed those freaks to do to me.  And I'm still pissed about it. Hard-core fundyism is child abuse, plain and simple, and should be stopped. Ramen. (After previewing this post, I see I have much more anger to deal with than I thought.  Yet, I believe my point still stands.)

Date: 2006/05/25 07:30:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Arden Chatfield concluded: Quote It'll have to be rammed through by corrupt judges and politicians.     And creationists with tire irons, apparently.

Date: 2006/05/27 07:24:44, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

STJ Just a quick drive-by. Thanks for starting this topic, I believe it's a rather important and thought provoking subject. While I've been chewing on this quite a bit, I'm still a little too angry to post anything substantive and sane just yet.  (I've really been pissed over this since you've brought it up, and it's a good thing strangely enough.) Just to clarify something I said earlier, though, when I returned to college in the mid nineties, it was to a real University... Marshall U. in WV.  (This would probably not be a good time for any WVU folks out there to chime in, just in case the thought crossed your itty bitty minds.    ) On second thought, let me throw this out there: The fundy mantra goes along the lines of: "If you don't accept Jesus in your heart as your Lord and Master and personal Savior, and ignore those scientists, with their 'man came from monkeys' and their 'billions of years' lies, Jesus will send you straight to he11 where you will burn in torture and torment for all eternity." The preceding is (for anyone born and raised on some other planet who may never have heard this explicitly stated) neither parody nor caricature. How is this not, by anyone's definition, child abuse? The speaker has: 1. Invoked the ultimate, omniscient, invisible authority 2. Demanded unquestioned self-abasement and servitude to that authority 3. Insisted that irrational delusion replace observed reality which in turn can only harm the ability of the listener in question to function 4. Threatened not only harm, but eternal, unspeakable torture as the only alternative to #2 and #3 above This is not even in the same ball park as "Billy do your homework or you'll work at McDonny's Booger Joint for the rest of your life".  Yes, I'm paraphrasing, and I admit I dropped the maternal suicide clause from the statement earlier in the thread.  I don't know that "Mommy will kill herself" is an oft repeated refrain, and in context I don't think Joe meant it was. I have to insist that the fundy statement is orders of magnitude more detrimental than the Booger Joint statement, with or without the involuntary matricide clause.   (Maternal suicide or involuntary matricide - you be the judge) Ok, "quick drive-by" evolved into "rambling diatribe" and "biting missive", so I'm off to experience and examine more internal (but hemorrhaging) anger. Peace.  (I'm aware of the irony of that statement in this post, shut up.)

Date: 2006/05/27 08:49:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Haha...  I just took This Trip Down Memory Lane, which occured just after I began lurking here and at the Thumb proper. Quote I found the book at www.Amazon.com and it made a great impression on me. A year later, it's still funny. BUSTED!

Date: 2006/05/27 09:38:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

PM MY ASS! As you know, Sir Nastyness-Of-The-Lower-Appendages, I have a vested interest in this conversation. Air it out on the abuse thread, if you would be so kind. Thanks. Seriously though, this definitely deserves mention over there.  And I'm really surprised there's not more conversation going on in that thread.  Maybe I dun skared 'em all off!

Date: 2006/05/27 10:30:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

'tsall good, STJ.   I assumed that anything relevent to that conversation would make it over there.  I'm just goofin' to blow off some steam, interjecting annoyances wherever I can, just to crack myself up.  This can freely be sent to TBW.  In fact, I don't believe I've ever been sent there.  Not once.  Hey, you're not somebody 'til you've been sent there.  Even Inspector Clouser's been sent there like a million times.  I've dreamt of saying something that gets sent there.  I'm obsessing.  I'm up at night.  I read TBW to get pointers on how to get there indirectly.  (Am I there yet?) (If not, what can I do better?) Lenny goes there all the time, and he even says stuff that makes sense.  Of course, it's OT cause he's responding to some nutjob who says something OT and they need a good verbal smackdown, but still. How about: Hey, if birds came from tyranosauruses, how come we still... shoot.

Date: 2006/05/27 10:43:39, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Yeah, but it's not the same as getting tossed there.  It's like cheating.  And I thought OT stuff from here got sent there, too.  There's probably a rule like Oldham's, too, where it doesn't work if you do it on purpose. crap. As far as "were you there?" arguments like Hovind's go, that's just dumb.  I wasn't there when men landed on the moon, but only an idiot  would suggest... oh wait.  Point taken.

Date: 2006/05/27 12:58:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

STJ, I'd be lying if I said I'd never thought about any of what you've mentioned.  But honestly I see several problems/issues. 1.  I'm sure whatever statutes of limitations in place at the time have run out. 2.  There's no way this country is ready to see such things as child abuse.  Freedom of religion is still seen as freedom to be a christian, although I think there is a very gentle eddy in this stream that may one day become a full strength back-current.  Look at the soldier's widow still fighting to get a wiccan symbol on his tombstone.  Even if she succeeds, I am willing to bet that tombstone doesn't remain undefaced for more than a month.  "Can't have them evil devil worshiping symbols in our Christian Country's Military Cemeteries, you know.  Damage for Jesus." 3.  I'm much closer geographically to the previously mentioned Blow Job U than when I grew up, and have a genuine safety concern for my family.  I won't even put an FSM logo (man I want one of those) on my car here.  Humor and respect for others is beyond the comprehension of a fundy.  I'm not willing to be so publically "out" as it were, as an irreleventist.  (Seems to me, labeling me as an atheist is about as dumb and about as relevent as labeling me as an atoothfairyist.  Technically true, I suppose, but completely meaningless.)  I'm sorry if that sounds irrational or offensive, but I was there, and I know better than to put anything at all past a fundy.  There is simply no depth to which they will not stoop to achieve a complete theocracy. 4.  I don't know that I'm willing or ready to really revisit that whole part of my life just yet in that way.  I wonder if there's an AA analog somewhere for this. So although it's probably too late to do anything legal in my case, I'd be thrilled to see it go to court eventually, when a case actually had a chance to win. Since leaving all that behind, I've bumped into exactly one of the 23 other students with whom I graduated high school.  Turns out, she was the one girl I really had the hots for back then (in a purely platonic way, of course...eh yeah).  She was married when I bumped into her, couple o' kids, working as the school secretary.  Still very cute.  We were chit chatting and she even asked why I never asked her out.  She'd have said yes.  But I think I might have used a very slight profanity in the course of the conversation, at which time the conversation sort of faded out and I could see she was still all wrapped up in all that.  I don't hold out much hope for any of the others.  It's just not that easy to escape from. As for actions, Nick, and please understand I hold you in the highest regard, this IS an action.  If witholding medication from a child because of some freak superstition is child abuse because it's physically damaging to a child, why wouldn't f'ing up their head because of some freak superstition be child abuse because it's mentally damaging to the child? And as for STJ's question, I'd posit it's much easier (and more entertaining) to verbally body slam an obvious blockhead.  The conversation in this thread is much less simple, has genuine room for gray area, and is much more likely to tread on taboos that are still deeply head by our society.  It was a very long time after leaving all that before the little nervous wince went away that occurred whenever I uttered the g-d word.

Date: 2006/05/27 14:53:31, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote I bet these guys would know: http://www.factnet.org/Children.html Checked out their message boards...  Overrun with fundys ie..."America is a Christian Nation", "Ban the ACLU", "Christians are persecuted because we can't force our superstition on everyone else", "Bush has a brain", and other  such nonsense.               Quote In 1876, the congress passed a bill that the Bible should be the standard for all morality. Our Laws are based on the 10 Commandments and the mosaic law. It is time for some lawmaker to introduce a bill to confiscate the properties of ACLU under the statutes of RICO. Please contact your cognressmen and senators over this. This is long due. We must get this done for the future of America. I'm going to keep poking around there for a while, but there seems to be a stance of "this is what defines a cult...unless it's Christianity, in which case shut up and do what Pastor Bob says Jesus said." There is rebuttal going on, but it's all beside the point of what I'm looking for. This page at that site looks a little more promising. Thanks for that link, STJ. I'm not sure I really see a distinction between letting your child die for lack of medical attention because of your superstition, which is apparently legal in 44 states (unless I'm misreading what PennyBright says about the extent of the religious exemption), and shooting or blowing up a planned parenthood medical professional because of your superstition.  In fact, I would argue that the former offense is even more morally reprehensible than the latter.  In a backwards-logic-insane kind of way, at least the crazy with the rifle thinks that he's saving lives.   Quote I agree with Nick that while such egregious abuses are permitted in the name of religion, there will be no censure for anything lesser. I would agree with this statement, again because I think fundy christians get a pass on the whole cult thing. Hey, is the proper spelling "fundys" or "fundies"?  I'm thinking it's the second, but I like the first.

Date: 2006/05/27 15:10:58, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

No, actually they actually might be what they purport to be, it's just there's a large amount of fundy commenters on the christianity section of the boards, no real discussion about recovering from fundyism, or the harm it causes. Instead of "Can christian fundamentalism be cultish, and if so, what should be done for victims?" there's a lot of "The Christian god is the one true God" and various agreement and rejection of that.

Date: 2006/05/27 15:34:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Relatedly, what's the difference between someone who can get out, and someone who can't?  I'm now wondering what made me different than anyone else.

Date: 2006/05/27 15:39:13, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

STJ, Yeah, I wasn't going to deal with it online, I was just looking for information, and perhaps a lead. And feel free to posit that I'm just really brilliant for a reason I managed to get out.  I'm pretty good with that one.

Date: 2006/05/27 15:46:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote can you explain what you mean by can and can't get out? did you mean forced coercion by use of some physical restraint? Nope.  Physical restraint is unnecessary to keep the faithful in line.  That's the point of this thread, in a way, isn't it?

Date: 2006/05/27 16:08:08, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote yes, but I'm still unsure how to answer your original question. I don't think I was actually looking for a magical answer, rather I was looking for discussion on the broader principle, while using my self in particular as example. What is the difference between someone who never leaves fundyism/cultism whatever, and a person who wakes up one day and says "hey, wait a minute..." With that, I believe I'm off to bed. I bid you all good evening, and look forward to continuing this discussion.

Date: 2006/05/29 04:54:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ok, I feel better.  A day at the beach will do that for a fella'. I've been chewing on this, and so far we've been picking out random instances and saying "oh yeah, this is child abuse" or "I'm not sure that constitutes child abuse" but there doesn't seem to be any way to delineate what is or isn't. I'm thinking maybe we should alter our methodology.  How about this. Let's draw a scale for actions, from 0 to 100, where 0 is an action that amounts to no irrationality, and 100 is an action that results in the death of a child from extreme irrationality (witholding medication from a child for religious objections which results in the death of a child would be at or near 100, I'd say).  We'll divide the line exactly at 50 and say that a 49 is really wacky, but just short of child abuse, and 51 is just barely child abuse. Let's further separate the high end of the scale with 51 to 74 being milder forms that might have some hope of recovery, and 76 to 100 being actions that would indicate it is necessary to remove the abuser from all contact with children (i.e. jail, abuser offenders list, etc.) Back down on the other end, obviously there is no one who can honestly claim 0 type behavior in all instances, so let's reserve 0 to 24 for more innocuous behavior ("my favorite team wins when I wear my replica of their jersey" would fit in there somewhere) and 26 to 49 for stranger actions which are a bit more irrational, but wouldn't quite be considered abuse.  (Perhaps this might include things like inducing labor in a pregant woman so her baby won't be born on June 6.) The locations on our scale corresponding to 25, 50, and 75 would be set aside for behaviors which are borderline between the actions on either side, and for which concensus simply cannot be reached. I'm open to suggestions on this, what do you think? In honor of the fella' who brought this topic up here and got me thinking about it, I'm going to name our scale the T.O.S.I.C.A., or Toejam Objective Scale of Irrationality and Child Abuse.

Date: 2006/05/29 15:27:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hmmm... I'm thinking my TOSICA score for "there is a god" is a multi-part answer, and that answer is dependant on our definition of "god".  If, indeed, we say that there is no restriction or qualification on the word, just that there is some force or being, supernatural, that exists, then I would lean more towards Penny's score of around 28 to 30.  If we instead give this god more of an anthropomorphological (is that a word?) characteristic, "there is some guy looking out for us" then I'd raise that score to somewhere around a 40  to 45.  If we give him/her more of the Judeo-Christo-Muslim attributes, "He sees you when you're sleeping, and punishes you when you are bad", then I'd go even higher than Joe, and put this between 48 and 52.  Teaching a child that the literal God of Genesis exists is well above 50, and might well stray above the 75 mark. I guess my point here is that we should be very exact when using the term "god".  Are we talking about "a god", "a God", "The God", or "The Christian God Who Sends People To #### For Ridiculous Reasons"? Again, if we're just talking about a generic "a god", I would really rate that close to where Penny did on the TOSICA. STJ, Although the topic has certainly tweeked my nose, in all honesty I'm not even remotely capable of rendering an unbiased opinion, synopsis, or review of anything on subject.  If I were in any way involved in the adjudication of a case involving this topic, I would have to recuse myself in all fairness.  I assume it's quite obvious why.  Of course, the fact that IANAL precludes my involvement in most ways anyway.  Hey, I'm just the son of a carpenter.

Date: 2006/05/30 00:54:05, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Shoot.  Does this mean I need to rename the TOSICA? Groovy name.  I like it.  But you'll always be toejam to me.

Date: 2006/05/30 05:37:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Point taken, Ick. I've begun looking for court cases etc. and will let you know what I come up with. In the early course of this, I've just happened across Richard Dawkins' The Root Of All Evil on google video.  I highly recommend both parts.  In fact, he makes a strong case for radically raising the TOSICA score for "there is a god".  Good stuff, in any event. Peace. Download Part 1 Download Part 2 Download the Google video player

Date: 2006/05/30 06:04:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote Black Knight, indeed, Dave. I suggest you rent "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" to see how accurately we've characterized you. "You yellow bastards!"

Date: 2006/05/30 12:40:38, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hey Fross, Thanks for joining the discussion.  The TOSICA sliding scale is one of irrationality, with innocuous and harmless stuff to the left near zero and increasing to the right as the stuff becomes more and more irrational, eventually culminating in actions that result in the death of a child due directly to irrationality. As I noted above when I introduced the TOSICA, something as irrational yet basically harmless as "we have to wear our jerseys tonight so the Flyers will beat the holy snot out of the Devils" is on the scale, just way left of child abuse.  Obviously, there is no evidence that such behavior influences a hockey game, just as there is no evidence of god, God, The God, or The Almighty Christian God Who Commits Genocide When Heathens Don't Worship Him. The TOSICA is just a starting place for our discussion on quantifying and catagorizing what does and does not merit the label "child abuse". I sincerely wear my Flyers jersey whenever they are on TV down here in my adopted habitat (I guess I'm an invasive species here in NC), in the intellectually vapid hope that it might somehow affect a game in Philadelphia, but it's still irrational no matter how sincere I am...  Unless we kick the crap out of Jersey, in which case we all know that "a god", "a God", "The God", and "The Almighty Christian God Who Commits Genocide When Heathens Don't Worship Him" are all Flyers fans.

Date: 2006/05/30 15:18:06, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote The whole multiverse idea is pseudoscientific nonsense because there’s no way to test it. There’s only one universe that can be observed, measured, and analyzed. Certain physical constants could have taken on a number of different values when the universe was picoseconds old. Minute variations in some of those would have made it impossible for life as we know it to exist. I take the fine tuning argument as an uninteresting given - the universe was evidently designed and only pseudoscientific infinite multiverse theories can begin to dispute it. -ds Whoops.

Date: 2006/05/31 02:55:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

On a related note, This Article from LiveScience makes for an interesting read.

Date: 2006/05/31 05:18:24, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

That's funny, because reading his crap, I pictured him as about 14.

Date: 2006/05/31 09:45:09, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Help, we've just been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of society! We don't need no stinkin' edumakation.  Nolige is fo da devil! --  Paraphrase of TinaBrewer

Date: 2006/05/31 12:03:23, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

ditto

Date: 2006/05/31 13:47:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

JUST POST THE FRAKKING MODEL ALREADY!

Date: 2006/05/31 13:53:15, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

and I meant that in the politist possible way, of course.

Date: 2006/06/01 18:05:38, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Ved @ June 01 2006,15:49) Can we talk about the flood yet Dave? Let me know when I can pull this out:       Quote (http://www.inu.net/skeptic/flood.html @ ,) The Ark, so decreed that great naval architect in the sky, was to be built entirely of Gopher wood, and its dimensions were to be 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits height (Gen. 6:14-15.) Although the perceived length of a cubit may vary4, based on an average length of 18 inches, that translates into 450 feet by 75 feet by 45 feet. This presented our farmer-turned-ship-builder with a daunting problem because the Ark would have broken apart with the first wave. According to Robert A. Moore (Creation/Evolution XI, vol 4, no. 1, pages. 4-5) there is an upper limit, in the region of 300 feet, on the length of a wooden ship. Beyond this a wooden ship is subjected to great stress and the hull cannot be maintained watertight. This is the major reason why the naval industry turned from wood construction to iron and steel in the 1850s. In that regard, the largest wooden ship ever built, the six-masted schooner U.S.S. Wyoming, measured 329 feet in overall length. It required diagonal iron strapping for support and leaked so badly that it had to be pumped constantly. It was declared unseaworthy and too long for wood construction. Yet the ark was deemed to be over 100 feet longer. Just an interesting tidbit. Though, I guess if God is performing miracles for you it doesn't matter how flimsy your ship is. Noah should have used Pykrete. So if "The-Almighty-Christian-God-Who-Commits-Genocide-When-Nobody-Plays-With-Him" is in enough of a miracle mood to hold together the ark that couldn't possibly float without a miracle, why bother with the ark in the first place? Just wonderin'.

Date: 2006/06/01 18:11:11, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I was once violated by a SLoT... oh.. sorry.

Date: 2006/06/02 02:01:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

ooo ooo.... how about this: The expansion of the universe is caused by the centripetal acceleration of the rotation of the universe around the earth! Throw in some Newton's Second Law of Motion, F=ma, add in that funky little w guy, and a sin(theta) or two, maybe a half dozen gravitons, 32 references to Einstein, a tachyon for Nebogipfel, two egg whites, mix gently and bake at 449.81 k for 6,000 years. Cool for 2 years to eliminate burns and any residual SLoT residue and Voila! Jesus loves you.

Date: 2006/06/09 12:08:07, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote I'm an Apatheist , which means i find the question completely irrelevant. For all practical purposes I am an atheist, except that I believe thinking about the problem enough to come to the conclusion that there is no God is a complete waste of time. In fact I am only posting on this thread because I consider myself an evangelical Apatheist, whos duty it is to dispassionately spread the principles of Apatheistc thought to those nonchalant enough to recieve them. Concur absolutely, though I usually refer to myself as an irrelevantist, because it's funny to hear the fundies try to say it.

Date: 2006/06/18 12:42:27, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Uh-oh, smells kinda Mormony to me.  "Angel Moroni" and all that jizz.

Date: 2006/06/22 07:58:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Buh bye, fluff fluff

Date: 2006/06/22 08:48:58, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I'd like to know the percentage of those hits that are from us looking for some good comedy.

Date: 2006/06/22 10:27:23, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

It's very DaveTardy.

Date: 2006/06/22 14:04:20, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well that depends, PZ.  What was your SAT score?

Date: 2006/06/22 14:07:21, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

For those not paying attention, See this thread to explain the SAT quip.

Date: 2006/06/23 02:43:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Some Logic For Davey: Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian 10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours. 9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt. 8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God. 7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees! 6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky. 5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old. 4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite He11 of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving." 3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity. 2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God. 1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian. Found Here

Date: 2006/06/23 10:32:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I spoke to the tooth-fairy today.  She told me she was tired of god and his little band of terrorists, so she kicked his ass and threw him in his own ####. I know it's true because the tooth-fairy doesn't lie.

Date: 2006/06/23 11:34:39, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Actually, Ich, the thought had crossed my mind once or twice, but NOBODY could fake this kind of breathtaking inanity, if I may borrow a phrase.

Date: 2006/06/23 14:02:31, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Yeah, you seem to be having some issues with it there Eric.  We forgive you, though. (I'm sure no one will hold it against you if you want to go back and edit, but don't feel obligated either.)

Date: 2006/06/23 15:26:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Poor fella has a 10 Year Woody That's pretty much all I have to say about that.

Date: 2006/06/24 05:12:24, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I have to agree with Dave on the knowlege of the ancients.  After all, they invented the Stargates.

Date: 2006/06/24 05:15:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ack!  I just figured it out!  Dave is a Prior of the Auri, spreading Origin!

Date: 2006/06/24 06:30:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Dear Prior Dave, If you continue to try to spread Origin through this galaxy, we will be forced to contact the Asgard to assist us in locating Merlin's super-anti-ascended-beings weapon which will cancel you out, and you and your masters will cease to exist. Love, The Inhabitants of Reality.

Date: 2006/06/24 06:35:51, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hey Plas, I believe Ich invoked Godwin's Law a page or two back.  Nobody is responding because A.P. loses automatically.  The argument is over, A.P. is an idiot, life goes on. Oh yeah, water is wet, the sky is blue, and women have secrets. Peace, Lou

Date: 2006/06/24 10:12:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote The  oldest story is logically ...(emphasis mine) And herein lies the crux of the matter...

Date: 2006/06/24 13:30:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ah, the hits just keep on comin'. Johnnyb fired for being irrelevent Misanthrope asks for a little substance for ID:         Quote No, I’m only asking for more meat to the theory. Darwinian theory, and even the tangential abiogenesis theories, propose a pathway using known, witnessed processes with known chemical reactions, even though the specific pathways from A to B are unknown. At least the framework is intelligible and communicates something, as opposed to a theory about something which cannot, by its very nature, be specified. The need for causal specificity would lead one to favor an explanation with more, not less, specificity. ID proponents demand a complete explanation from the very first self-replicating molecule all the way to Greta Garbo, with every single variation and selection explained in toto, but they’ll readily accept that “the designer need not be specified, as long as we see the need for design?” I’ll take imperfect knowledge over a position that deliberately embraces unknowability. propose a pathway using known, witnessed processes with known chemical reactions (italics original) For which he gets the boot:         Quote This is simply wrong and I’m sick of correcting you over and over about it. You are imagining chemical reactions that do not exist. Go find another blog. You’re done here. -dt Yeah, how dare you ask HOW God er, I mean the Intelligent Designer designed! Feel free to append "BBDT" (Banned By Dave Tard) to your handle. Then SCheeseman expounds scientifically:       Quote Blah Blah Blah... “God of the gaps?” Yeh, God owns those gaps and he’s getting mighty ticked off at those who deny the obvious when they stare it in the face. (Like denying that the genetic code is a code - then what the heck is it!?) But NO!  ID is NOT about religion.  Nope, not at all.  I suspect that the code reads something like "Hey SCheeseDick, Stop putting words in my mouth!" Dave Tards response?   Quote Misanthrope is no longer with us for that and many similarly uninformed and unreasoned statements. I suspect he/she has been here before using a different name and was booted out then too for the same cause. -dt Translation: I gave that bastard the boot because he keeps asking for an actual Theory of ID.

Date: 2006/06/24 15:11:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ahhhhh, feeling the love today.

Date: 2006/06/25 02:50:00, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Dave, Aren't you supposed to end all your posts with "Hallowed are the Auri" or something?

Date: 2006/06/25 03:27:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Plasma, At first blush, I was going to call it projection.  Thinking about it, it's not even that.  The IDCreationismHoax doesn't even want a semblence of evidence any more.  Every time they try to use some fact or factoid, or some obfuscation thereof, they get called on it, exposed, and embarrassed to the point that even an uneducated carpenter's son like me (not to mention a highly educated biologist or federal judge) can see that they're all idiots following liars like lemmings.   Their only reason for being these days is to spout religio/socio/political feel-good bullshit.  It's all about fear and power, always has been.  They are quite simply afraid of dying.  If it turns out that they can't prove that their god exists, then what happens when they die?  They can't wrap their little brains around the idea that they will no longer exist.  The power is about wishful thinking.  If they can force enough people to recite their mantra, maybe they can feel secure that their version of (un)reality will be true.  Then maybe they will turn out to be right, and they won't cease to exist. It is not good enough for them to understand that whatever it is that makes up "ME" will someday be scattered to the wind, decomposing to provide fuel for the next generations of plants and animals, and eventually new stars.  It's recycling on a grand scale, and I think that makes them feel like yesterday's kitchen garbage.  Hence, whatever it takes, they must force people to believe in their version of (un)reality. It seems a lot like a magician who uses smoke and mirrors to make a woman disappear, hoping that if enough of the audience believes, he really will make her disappear. There's probably a doctor of psychology dissertation in there somewhere.   </speculative rant induced by pain meds coupled with exasperation over willfull ignorance> It would also seem that DaveTard's job is to bounce anyone who asks too many questions, like "What exactly is the theory of ID?"

Date: 2006/06/25 05:44:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I wonder if the bible is consistent with the Book of Origin? Hallowed are the Auri.

Date: 2006/06/25 05:53:35, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jeannot @ June 25 2006,10:51) Quote ...the oldest being the first two dated at least at 3200BC... How have they been dated? Why, by the genealogies in the bible, of course.  Duh.

Date: 2006/06/25 08:04:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

My apologies.

Date: 2006/06/25 08:12:58, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

On the subject of spelling and fictional pseudo-mythologies, though, I'm pretty good at spelling Noah.

Date: 2006/06/25 09:32:31, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

The same way it talks about the death of Moses in the past tense even though it was supposedly written by Moses? It was revealed by the (thank you to Tacitus for correcting my spelling) Ori. In a vision. On a burrito.

Date: 2006/06/25 09:40:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Wow, that almost sounded lucid.

Date: 2006/06/26 03:08:32, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote To be fair at least stargate gives a decent reason as to why the Ori need to be worshipped. I have yet to hear one for Christianity. Ps becuase you'll go to #### is not a decent reason. You know, I find it funny that Stargate's (what would you call it - parallel? dark parody? allegory? I'm going with dark parody) dark parody makes more sense than the real thing. And by applying Davie's logic, Stargate is The Truth because - There really is a place called Egypt. There really are pyramids in Egypt. There really are other galaxies. There are written records (10 years of weekly scripts written by many authors AND a screenplay, mind you). Stargate SG1 has produced a spinoff, and is itself spun off from a deeper, more ancient wisdom starring Kurt Russell. Once a week millions of people gather to hear all about it. Some physics guy postulated wormholes. There is no evidence that contradicts The Truth of Stargate. If there is any evidence that contradicts The Truth of Stargate, it is wrong, misinterpreted, or can otherwise safely be ignored because it comes from Atheistic Scientists. Some guy on TV was visited by aliens who probed his butt. Jesus loves you. Therefore the entire Stargate Universe has been proven. Hallowed are the Ori. (Don't even get me started on Battlestar Galactica and the twelve tribes...)

Date: 2006/06/26 03:23:21, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Chris Hyland @ June 26 2006,00:45) Could someone let me know if Dave actually says something interesting or if he actually moves onto evolution. Don't hold your breath.

Date: 2006/06/26 05:52:25, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote He helped them overcome their crippling fear of evil spirits and taught them to love their babies instead of kill them.  He taught them how to live happy, productive lives full of music and laughter instead of sorrow and drunkenness. Shame he didn't do the same for you.

Date: 2006/06/26 06:31:22, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote The creationists believe the mechanism of creation is "Poof". How can you make that sound scientific? Poofosaurus? The Poof Hypothesis? Pooficitis? Poofalicious? Poof the Scientific Dragon? Poof Membrane Theory? Poofology? Quantum Poofanics? Poofomatics? Poofowoofarama? General Theory of Poofitivity? Alakapoof? Go Poof in Your Hat and Wear It? Intelligent Design?

Date: 2006/06/26 06:36:04, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

oooo...  Arden, we should have a poll! I can't believe I missed "Poof Theory", though.

Date: 2006/06/26 06:41:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Steve, that's just classic.  Thank you.

Date: 2006/06/26 08:14:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote Sorta like the military, Faid.  I didn't always understand every decision that came down to me.  But before I joined, I analyzed the military and decided it was overall a good thing.  I made the conscious decision to join and subject myself to its authority.  Similar deal with God. The genocide of innocents is evil of the top tier and anyone engaged in it is morally bankrupt whether the order to do so came from a company first sergeant, battallion commander, President of the United States, or Jesus Fucking Christ Hisself.  It's still criminal.  Perhaps you missed the UCMJ. And you are an idiot.

Date: 2006/06/26 09:34:26, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ok, I thought I was done frothing at the mouth over Dave using the "but my commander (in this case God via Joshua) told me to kill all those children" excuse, but I'm not. Suffice it to say that not only is such a lame and pathetic excuse disgusting, vile, and morally vacuous, it's also without legal merit. The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice - which is the U.S. Military Law) specifically deals with such orders and states that not only is a member of the military not required to follow such orders, but is obligated to disobey them.  Anyone following such orders is subject to charges of murder and war crimes regardless of who gave the order.  Any slick-sleeved airman (or marine, soldier, seaman, or coastie) could tell you that. It's one of the first things all members of the military learn in basic training, and for Dave to compare Joshua or anyone else's wholesale slaughter of women, children, and other non-combatants to the ideals or actions of the U.S. military is repugnant and offensive to those of us who served with honor.

Date: 2006/06/26 09:37:35, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote substitute "god" for "dog", Ack!  Are you suggesting the addition of information through mutation??

Date: 2006/06/26 09:42:40, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (carlsonjok @ June 26 2006,14:28)   Quote (afdave @ June 26 2006,12:38) On the one hand, you are talking about the Moral Absolute that "Individual humans are not to kill."  On the other hand you have lawfully instituted, God-ordained governments which are delegated the power by God to kill--capital punishment, war, A-bombs, etc. Okay, I have to admit some degree of curiousity about this?  Are all governments God-ordained? Shoot, and here I thought that governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Date: 2006/06/26 10:04:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote Now here's a man who seems to follow an actual moral code (universal or not)... Unlike you, dave. Thank you for the nod, Faid. Interestingly enough, I didn't need some old collection of fairy tales about an invisible djin to arrive at that code.  So much for the "but if there is no Yaweh-as-depicted-literally-in-thishere-book, then there is no morality" argument. In fact, I dare say my "moral code" became much less fluid when I left such silliness in my past.   Quote When I was a child I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man I put away childish things.

Date: 2006/06/26 10:26:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ok, I think if we begin reading at the last comment ON THIS PAGE I think we can justify adding 20 points to fundyism on the TOSICA. 'nuff said.

Date: 2006/06/26 10:32:46, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ June 26 2006,15:30) Quote Yeah, how dare those rotten evilutionists actually expect us to do experiments. Well, the IDers are in a bit of a bind -- it's not easy to replicate "Goddidit" in a lab.   Sure it is.  Put a stick in a sealed terrarium, pray over it, and call me when it turns into a snake.

Date: 2006/06/26 10:40:44, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

OOO OOO I KNOW THIS ONE! How about "Ezekiel forgot to mention that forever hasn't started yet.  It doesn't start until next Tuesday."

Date: 2006/06/26 11:01:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Although that idea was wacky, and Clouserbot's was really nutso, the relevent portion to which I was referring in AFDave's post was where he was saying it was ok to kill women and children if God told you to do it.  Then he somehow drifted off into a comparison to the U.S. military, intimating that if your superior tells you to, then it's ok because you were given orders to by a representative of the God-annointed government. Man that boiled my blood.  Anyone who thinks it's ok to go around killing women and children simply 'cause God told you to belongs behind bars, and certainly has no business raising children.

Date: 2006/06/26 11:31:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jeannot @ June 26 2006,16:14) Then what are you doing on AFDave's thread?   AFDave's thread is purely entertainment (ok sometimes he just pisses ya' off, but mostly it's entertainment). Sort o' like professional wresting.  Only funny.  And educational.  Oh and worth watching.  So it's nothing like professional wrestling.  Except Dave.  He's EXACTLY like professional wrestling. "Hope that helps" (quoting the Gray Wolf here)

Date: 2006/06/26 12:34:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Geez, GoP, That was rather uncalled for. No need to be a pecker-head.  If you have a problem with something he actually said, say so.  You'll feel better, and we'll all laugh at you.  It's really a win-win situation. Beatin' up on the muppets, though, that's just cheap. Butthead.

Date: 2006/06/26 12:50:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

You're still a butthead though, and will remain so until you issue a public apology to the muppets. Butthead.

Date: 2006/06/26 13:11:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

You're still a butthead.  Apologize to the Muppets. Butthead.

Date: 2006/06/26 13:54:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

If you get a chance, check out This article at Stanford Medicine Magazine.  It's worth a read, well written.  The comments are abysmal, though.  Larry Farfarman rears his head early. Oh well, good article, though. Cheers, Lou

Date: 2006/06/26 14:02:31, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Whoops, forgot the hat tip to Dr. Phil Plait from Bad Astronomy for the link. He's the REAL Dr. Phil.

Date: 2006/06/26 16:16:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Recognize this? Quote # ARGUMENT FROM THE BIBLE (II) (1) The Bible says the Bible is true. (2) Therefore the Bible is true. (3) The Bible says God exists. (4) Therefore, God exist. I just read all 360 proofs of God's existence and was very amused at how many of them Dave has presented. It's quite a chuckle, but I wouldn't recommend reading them all at once.

Date: 2006/06/27 01:52:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I thought Larry's brothers were Moe and Shemp.

Date: 2006/06/27 04:38:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Seven, The case of William Calley and W.O. Hugh Thompson is the exact case study provided to military personell to illustrate this in the UCMJ classes.  Every class I took and taught on the subject at Ft. Benning, GA used this case. In the interest of accuracy and full disclosure, it's been a while (15 years) and I had to look up some of the details of what follows.  Wiki has a pretty good treatment of all this, and jives pretty well with what I recall, though it doesn't really stress the findings of responsibility by the courts which are arguably the biggest legal impact of the proceedings: Calley maintained that his Commanding Officer, CPT Ernest Medina, gave the order to rape and murder the villagers and burn the village to the ground.  Although Medina was aquitted, Calley was convicted.  Whether the order was given by Medina or not was irrelevent to Calley's trial.  Calley was responsible for his own actions.  Likewise, so were his men. Unfortunately, Calley was the only one convicted of over 20 officers and men alleged to have been involved in the massacre and subsequent cover-up.  He was originally sentenced to life imprisonment, but intervention by then President Nixon, and further appeals based on the fairness of the trial eventually led to Calley serving only 3 1/2 years of house arrest.  The other aquittals and charge dismissals were mostly based on evidence issues, not responsibility issues. The Army courts however, made it perfectly crystal clear that soldiers are responsible for their actions, regardless of orders, or from whence those orders came.  Murder is murder no matter who told you to commit it.  A soldier is not only not required to obey illegal orders, but also is obligated to disobey those orders, report the illegal orders up the chain of command, and if necessary, forcibly remove the officer or NCO from command to prevent those orders from being carried out.  This was absolutely one of those cases. Now, that's a big step for a young private or corporal to take, and s/he had better be goddamned sure those orders are illegal and warrant such an action, but failure to do so when necessary is a prosecutable offence.  "Cpt. Medina (Lt. Calley, the President, Yaweh, or Jesus H. Christ)  told me to" is NOT - I say again - NOT an acceptable excuse. Warrant Officer Hugh Thompson and his crew are heros.  They had big balls, and common decency.  Sadly, Thompson died earlier this year of cancer.  His crew chief, Spec 4 Glen Andreotta was killed in action shortly after the massacre at My Lai.  His door gunner, Spec 4 Lawrence Colburn lives in Atlanta.  All three were later awarded the Soldier's Medal, the highest Army award for actions not under enemy fire (being engaged with the enemy is a requirement for awards such as the CMOH, the silver and bronze stars, etc.). Last I heard (1990 or so), Calley still lived around Ft. Benning.  His name is Anathema. Calley is a disgrace, and so is Dave.

Date: 2006/06/27 08:06:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote Lou FCD...   The UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice - which is the U.S. Military Law) specifically deals with such orders and states that not only is a member of the military not required to follow such orders, but is obligated to disobey them.               Quote AFDave The UCMJ was written in a different era, my friend, and is quite valid for today.  But in Joshua's day, God worked in a different way as I have already explained.  Also, if you love the UCMJ, how do you reconcile today's UCMJ with what we did to Hiroshima and Nagasaki?  What is your position on the women and babies that were killed there by our A-bombs? A few things: 1. I am not now, nor have I ever been nor will I ever be your friend.  You disgust me in the same way as My Dearest Dr. ClouserBot. 2. You're Goddamned right it's valid today.  The principles which it espouses in this case were valid before it was written.  It is morally reprehensible to murder innocents now, and it was morally reprehensible to murder innocents 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, and 5000 years ago.  The question you were originally asked on 24 June on page 87 of this very thread was from Faid:             Quote So, dave: If your God came to you, beyond any doubt in your mind, and told you you should kill babies in his name, because that is his will at the moment and he knows better, would you do it dave? (emphasis in the original) Now it might be reading too much into the question, but the last phrase was not "would you have done it", but rather "would you do it".  Seems to imply the present to me.  Your "what's moral now is different than what was moral then" argument is irrelevent to the question.   You have both intimated and flat out stated that your answer is "yes".  That tells me you are dangerous.  You are a friggin' sociopath of the worst sort.   Your moral relativity argument certainly does raise another question though, Dave.  Several, in fact. Why was it ok then but not now?  What changed? As I recall, your Holy Book claims that God is unchanging.  Why was it ok for Joshua to wipe out women and children for some land, but not ok for us to do it now?  I don't understand how you can believe that murder and rape were ok up until the end of Malachi, but then somewhere before Matthew that all changed for some mysterious reason.  Did God change his mind?  Was it a boo boo? Anyway, back to your post of today. Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  I knew you would ask this very question.  I've asked it of myself many, many times.  How do I justify it?  I don't.  I don't claim to know if Truman made the right call, and truth be told, I think he was wrong for exactly the reasons we've been discussing.  My morals don't change according to the amount of land involved, or what the Holy Spirit whimsically whispers in my ear today. However, let me be perfectly clear.  Despite the much larger number of innocents involved, and despite the much more enormous consequences of President Truman's order, I do not equate his actions with Joshua's, or with Calley's.  President Truman was faced with two horrible choices.  Extinguish the lives of thousands of innocents in order to end a war we did not ask for and save the lives of thousands of soldiers on both sides OR continue fighting a conventional war which may have dragged on for years and claimed just as many or maybe more lives in the end.  It is a quandry I don't envy a President in such a position.  He had to make a choice between equally bad outcomes.  He did what he thought was right. On the other hand, Joshua's orders from your God were to murder innocents for no apparent reason other than a land grab from the sinners.  "Them damned Jericho peeple was havin anal sex on land we wanted."  That's what it boiled down to, Dave.  And there is no gray area.  It was a despicable slaughter of innocents.  Period.  And you agreed it was ok because your invisible sky daddy said it was ok.  You are a sick individual.       Quote Well, now you have me thoroughly confused.  So, is what you are a saying Paul believes that we should always obey the government (regardless of whether we agree or not) unless it directs us to disobey a Scriptural commandment, which would presumably include the Decalogue? And if that is correct, then doesn't it follow that Paul would have me refuse an order by my government to violate the Scriptural proscription against killing? Wow, several posts while I'm piddling away here writing my diatribe. Dave is entirely correct on the whole "Paul said obey the goverment unless it tells you to disobey God".  His Holy Book really does say that.  Of course, if you pick and choose which passages to believe in the first place, it's easy to to pick and choose which passages are contradicted by the goverment. As for the proscription on killing... Please don't ever for one minute take me for a christo facist apologist (Edit to add the truth of the matter is that I'm an EX Christo facist apologist, and I was a #### sight better at it than Dave will ever be. end Edit) but - A better translation of that passage might be "Thou shalt do no murder".  And it is definitely a different word than kill, IIRC.  (My Hebrew is quite a bit rusty so I don't recall the exact words in question, you can look it up if you care to be bothered with such ridiculous things.  Or you could ask my Dearest Dr. ClouserBot, I'm sure she'd be happy to expound on the perfect JL Publications translation.)  This is how christofreakazoids rationalize all sorts of things, from capital punishment, to physical gay bashing, to family planning clinic bombings.  "See, them ain't murder, because them there peeple was disobeyin' God.  That there is just killin'.  Difrent." Don't ever let one of these freaks claim anything about a "universal moral code" or "unbelievers use relative morality".  They are liars and wouldn't refrain from genocide if they thought for one second they could get away with it. Ok, this ain't perfect, but I don't want to wait for three or four more pages before I post it. The gist is that Dave has the moral code of a pile of excrement from an large farm animal.

Date: 2006/06/27 09:04:34, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I note that parasite is pretty interchangable with creationist in that quote Norm. That kinda takes all the fun out of it, though.

Date: 2006/06/27 10:43:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

You know these threads used to be interesting, funny even.  AFDave's argument of "The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true which is true because the Bible is true" was amusing if only to see how long he could keep it up without getting so dizzy he passed out. Now, not so much. I have to hand it to you folks who can go 90+ pages of trying to engage him with logic, facts, and reality.  This thread is a huge testament to some truly epic patience. Personally I have nothing left but venom and vitriol for him.  I apologize to everyone else who has to read through my rants of disgust.

Date: 2006/06/27 12:51:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Lou FCD @ June 27 2006,15:43) AFDave's argument of "The Bible is true because the Bible says it's true which is true because the Bible is true" was amusing if only to see how long he could keep it up without getting so dizzy he passed out. See above.

Date: 2006/06/27 12:55:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Oh and it looks like The People Have Spoken

Date: 2006/06/27 13:39:25, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Awww... PZ lost his sense of humor.  Oh well.  I've said repeatedly that you're not somebody at PT until you've been banished to the bathroom wall. WooooHooooo! I feel all warm and fuzzy now.  Thanks PZ. You don't actually think there is going to be any productive conversation on that thread do you?

Date: 2006/06/27 14:00:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well I guess that answers that.  Guess I'll be looking for good spider science elsewhere.  I like my science with reason and humor.

Date: 2006/06/27 14:06:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

dick waving PZ.

Date: 2006/06/27 14:20:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Lighten up, PZ.  You're quickly becoming the best argument against your own position.  A position, I will add, which I share.

Date: 2006/06/27 15:00:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

####, Arden.  Just when I thought I had become somebody, now you tell me I have to go slumming over there and try to get at least one comment up before I get banned.  Yeah, that's gonna happen. You're not even gettin' one post up, Lou FCD you commie atheist.  You're outta here before you get here. -dt

Date: 2006/06/27 15:05:27, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Does that mean the cheap shot bidding office pool is off??? Downer.

Date: 2006/06/27 15:11:26, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I think I might have only made one dick waving joke.  What about me?  Can I claim injury and oppression?  Is there a three dick waving joke minimum or anything? I can come back and make up the difference if you want, but somehow I don't think you'd see the humor.

Date: 2006/06/27 15:24:48, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks Arden, that's actually the best laugh I've had all day, which is saying something considering the thread I got tossed from. Ok, the gauntlet is thrown, and I choose to pick it up.  Of course, DaveTard reads all this, so I'll not be able to do it right away. Hear that DaveTard?  The challenge is on for me to get one post up on your little fan club board before you catch me and ban me. Maybe I'll sneak in and ban your Mama - LouFCD

Date: 2006/06/27 15:29:27, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Lighten up jujufruit. And I like my choice of avatars.

Date: 2006/06/27 15:38:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jujuquisp @ June 27 2006,20:08) Lou FCD, what is your problem?  Would you please select an avatar and quit with the nonsense?  Oh, hi Lenny Flank.  Welcome to our leper colony. But you're quite right, juju.  We should all be acting serious on a thread dedicated to the empirical observation and critique of Uncommon Descent. Crap, I couldn't even type that with a straight face.

Date: 2006/06/28 02:10:46, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well regardless of opinions about coddling or crucifying every theist in sight, I think this post by Lenny deserves to see the light of day in some place other than The Bathroom Wall: Quote Getting back to the subject, it should perhaps be pointed out that spider silk didn't originally evolve for making webs.  The group of arthropods from whcih spiders may (or may not have) evolved, the trigonotarbids, didn't have any spinnerets and presumably didn't have any silk.  One of the earliest known spiders, Attercopus, at 380 million years, did. Of course, one of the defining characteristics of spiders is that they have spinnerets. Some of the most primitive of the existing spiders are the mygalomorphs, the group that includes the tarantulas.  Some living species of tarantula-like spiders still have segmented apparent in their abdomens, and they are probably very similar to the most primitive of spiders.  This group goes back to 300 million years in the fossil record.  And although they have spinnerets and produce silk, they don't make webs.  Their silk is used largely to make eggsacs, and to line the burrows that they live in.  A few species of trapdoor spiders use silklen lines to make a radiating pattern with their burrow at the center, which alerts them to passing prey.  It seems likely that prey-catching webs were a (much) later modification of that strategy. There are also arboreal species of tarantula, which live in silken shelters that they spin high up in trees.  They too, however, don't make webs.  It seems a good likelihood that they adapted to an arboreal lifestyle in order to avoid monsoon rains which flooded their terrestrial burrows, and it seems likely that the modern orb-weaving spiders began with a similar lifestyle. Spiders fascinate me, always have.

Date: 2006/06/28 02:15:20, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Similar brief on it at LiveScience.com Very neatoriffic.

Date: 2006/06/28 02:19:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks for this, Steve.  I'll be keeping one eye on this thread. If you get a moment, could you hit me with a little more detail on this: Quote And it is discussed that embryology was so hard and late to develop, that it played almost no role even in the Modern Synthesis in the 40's, which came as a surprise to me. ?

Date: 2006/06/28 02:27:23, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

From Steve, Quote Superficially, he's not doing anything creationists haven't done here before. Make dumb arguments, misunderstand the very basic knowledge of the field, disagree with the evidence, imagine all the experts are deluded misinterpreters... ...yet he's the landslide winner for dumbest. What is it he does, which makes him so obviously dumber than Ghost and the rest? What's he doing differently? And from Rilke's GD: Quote But Dave is genuinely stupid.  He loses every argument he starts, but he claims otherwise.  He's genuinely arrogant.  He loses very argument he starts, but claims otherwise.  Etc. I think it's the combination of arrogance and genuine stupidity that's so amusing. I agree with RGD, but I'm gonna add that most of the others throw around some math, a little philosophy, and various other smoke screens to hide the insanity a little.  AFDave is happy to just keep going back to "The Bible is True, because the Bible says it's True, and that's True, because the Bible is True". He's just much more blatent.

Date: 2006/06/28 02:48:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Renier @ June 28 2006,07:32) Silk worms of course also have silk (as does other worms). Now, it's a stupid question, but is this trait a seperate evolution path from spiders? I would think so. Interesting, but here we call the tarantulas "baboon spiders". All in all, we have 3 dangerous spiders here, the worst being a light (beige) little spider with a dark mouth area and dark feet tips. Called a "Sakspinnekop". There is also a very interesting spider called a "Roman". Red hunting spider. I read somewhere that they are closer related to scorpians than other spiders. It's mouth is totally different from other spiders and it has no venom. It will however kill a scorpian in "combat". They also have the habit of running from shade area to shade area, thus creating the impression they are chasing humans (running after moving shade). Girls don't like them See this is good stuff. I've been repeating the mantra since I was a kid that ALL spiders are poisonous, it's just that most spiders' bites aren't terribly harmful to HUMANS.  I've always been surprised at how many people I've met that think that there are about three poisonous spiders in the whole world, usually: 1. The Black Widow 2. The Brown Recluse 3. The dreaded Tarantula Now I have to revise my statement.  I was seriously not aware that there were any spiders without venom.  I'll have to spend some time checking that guy out. One of my favorite sports as a young fella' was chasing girls and making them squeal.  (Ok, that's still one of my favorite sports, but ummm... different.)  Any spider that gives the impression of chasing girls all by itself is pretty cool in my book.

Date: 2006/06/28 03:24:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote He dragged the thread right down into the sewer Apparently you were reading a different thread than I was.  The one I was reading was off-the-wall, out of control, and a mass free-for-all for many reasons, in many ways, caused by many people and Lenny was no more responsible for that than you were. (or I was, for that matter) It was fun, let's do it again sometime.

Date: 2006/06/28 03:30:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

From the link you provided: Quote Male solifugids have hook-like flagella on the chelicerae I wonder if that means they are irreducibly complex and intelligently designed? Quote They run their prey down and once they catch it they eat while the prey is still alive with vigorous ripping and cutting actions of the powerful jaws. Nasty!

Date: 2006/06/28 03:36:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Oh, and to clarify, IIRC violin spider is a common name for the brown recluse, because of the violin shaped dark spot on it's back. Samey same.

Date: 2006/06/28 03:39:13, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I stand corrected.  Your violin spider looks different than our violin spider.

Date: 2006/06/28 03:44:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ahhh... related.... From wikipedia- Quote The brown recluse spider is a venomous spider, Loxosceles reclusa, of the family Sicariidae (formerly of the family Loxoscelidae). It is usually between 1/4 and 3/4 inch (6.4-19.1mm) but may grow larger. It is brown and usually has markings on the dorsal side of its thorax, with a black line coming from it that looks like a violin with the neck of the violin pointing to the rear of the spider resulting in the nickname "fiddleback spider" or "violin spider". Coloring varies from light tan to brown and the violin marking may not be visible. Since the "violin pattern" is not diagnostic, it is far more important, for purposes of identification, to examine the eyes. Contrary to most spiders, which have 8 eyes, recluse spiders have 6 eyes arranged in pairs (dyads) with one median pair and 2 lateral pairs. Only a few other spiders have 3 pairs of eyes arranged this way (e.g., scytodids), and recluses can be distinguished from these as recluse abdomens have no coloration pattern nor do their legs, which also lack spines. The brown recluse spider is native to the United States from the southern Midwest south to the Gulf of Mexico ([1]). The native range lies roughly south of a line from southeastern Nebraska through southern Iowa, Illinois, and Indiana to southwestern Ohio. In the southern states, it is native from central Texas to western Georgia. They are generally not found west of the Rocky Mountains. Recluse spiders, which also include Mediterranean recluse spider (Loxosceles rufescens), build irregular webs that frequently include a shelter consisting of disorderly threads. Unlike most web weavers, they leave these webs at night to hunt. People get bitten when they unintentionally squeeze them in clothing and bedding. Got the article on Brown Recluse Spider when I searched for violin spider. However, note from the link you provided- Quote Loxosceles can be grouped into cavernicolous (cave dwelling) and savannah species. One of the three cavernicolous species,  Loxosceles parrami, associated with mining areas, has been artificially introduced into Gauteng homes and is responsible for many cases of human envenomations in the area. Loxosceles is uncommon within 20 - 50 kilometres of Cape Town and bites by this spider appear to be translocations. Violin spider (Loxosceles sp.) Loxosceles are free ranging and nocturnal using only a few strands of silk as a retreat in caves or under rocks. Its free-ranging behaviour is what distinguishes it from the Pholcidae that are web-bound. Loxosceles are small with a body length of about 8 mm and long slender legs about 18 mm long. The carapace is relatively flat and slightly longer than wide and most species bear the characteristic dark violin-shaped marking. The cylindrical /oval abdomen is either plain or marked with light and dark patterns. In some species sand particles adhere to the cuticle but not to the same extent as Sicarius.

Date: 2006/06/28 04:08:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Well there's the violin, three (I think) different species of black widow, the red widow, at least one whole genus of tarantulas I think (some of which use their legs to shoot irritating hairs at your eyes if you piss them off), scorpions, and if you count non-poisonous but disease carriers, a bunch of ticks.  PZ would probably be the one to ask for the exhaustive list. Personally I worry more about poisonous two legged critters (read "fundies") over here, but YMMV.

Date: 2006/06/28 04:15:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote New world tarantulas (those found in North and South America) are equipped with urticating hairs on their abdomen, and will almost always use these as a first line of defense. These hairs will irritate sensitive areas of the body and especially seem to target curious animals who may sniff these hairs into the mucous membranes of the nose. These hairs generally do not irritate the hands or other tough areas of skin. Some species have more effective urticating hairs than others. The goliath birdeater is one species known for it's particularly irritating urticating hairs. Old world tarantulas (from Asia) have no urticating hairs, and are more likely to attack when disturbed. Old world tarantulas often have more potent, medically significant venom. From Wikipedia article on Tarantulas

Date: 2006/06/28 07:01:30, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Bug Wars the Movie That's cool.  I'll keep my eyes open for the purple guy if I'm ever in your neck of the woods.  If it can kick all kinds of ass in those kinds of fights, I don't think I want it p.o.d at me. Let me know what the tarantula tells you tonight.  I'm interested in his take on the whole old world/new world thing. When I was in the army, we tended to put large bipedal mammals (us) into a box (bar), add alchohol (of choice) and watch them fight.  Bigger scale, same result.  The purple (most heavily bruised) guy was declared the winner in a backwards drunken logic kind of way.

Date: 2006/06/28 08:37:30, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

1 In the beginning was the white page, and it was good. 2 And on the first page God created A Babe for You Escort service, and it was good. 3 But the Lord looked and sayeth unto the Escorts, "what troubleth thee and thy sistren." 4 The Escorts cried out with a loud voice and said "Lord of the great telephone book, Thou art great and mighty, for in one day Thou createst the telephone book and us to be therein. 5 In thy mercy. 6 Yet we are troubled, for Thou hast forgottenest to create for us someone to Escort." 7 And the Lord God of the Telephone Book looked, and lo they cried out to Him in truth. 8 So the Lord God looked and saw that His Book was incomplete, and vowest to doeth something about it. 9 And on the second day God created A Beasley's Bail Bonding Company, and it was good.  And then He created the ARBCO Manufacturing Corporation, and it was good. 10 And on the third day God went a little loco in la cabesa, and created Aakeith Eric, and Aaron Raymond and Nancy, and Aaron Sue, and all the people in the pages of white who there appear, yea even unto Zywicki Shaun. 11 And it was good. 12 And on the fourth day, The Lord God of White and Yellow looked upon His creation and realized that there was no Yellow for Him to rule over. 13 And the people of the White cried out "Lord, why hast Thou created only the White?  With whom shall we do business, other than with Thy Holy Escorts, and ARBCO Manufacturing?  Where the fucketh shall we buy our Pizza? 14 For our neighbor Lenny who hath not faith hath no pizza and starves?  Shew unto Lenny Thy greatness and create the Yellow! 15 In thy mercy." 16 And the Lord spake unto the people of the White and sayeth in a loud voice "New Testament."

Date: 2006/06/28 15:32:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ericmurphy @ June 28 2006,19:07) Did I need to consult the Bible at any point to perform this group of tests? No. Did anything I learned from the Bible in any way inform my methodology? No. If I had never heard of the Bible before, didn't even speak any language the Bible was written in, would I still be able to perform these tests? Yes. If the Bible had never been written, would I still be able to perform these tests? Yes. Eric, you know I have a great deal of respect for you, but I must insist that you are wrong.  If you read the whole Bible as translated by JL Publications, you would see that in the original Hebrew:   Quote (Malakezaiah @ June 28 596 BC,19:07) Malakezaiah 1 1 The word of the Lord unto His prophet Malakezaiah 2 In all things shalt thou praise his name Amen 3 In His mercy. 4 Yea verily I say unto you my prophet in thy times of need 5 If thou shalt go unto the board where thou commentest when the pub is not open any longer 6 And when thou surfest there there be no comedy nor foolishness 7 Yea if even unto three tries thou shalt not hear the words of the Prophet of the Spirit of Paley 8 First shalt thou go unto the wall plug and checketh that the power of my mighty spirit floweth through the plug. 9 If thou seest that my Spirit floweth go thou to thy keyboard and pingeth an IP address off thy Holy Network. 10 If thou canst not yet hear the words of the Prophet of the Spirit of Paley, neither canst thou hear the words of the Prophet AFDave, then shalt thou perform a DNS lookup of a site you have not visited in three months. 11 Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. 12 Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. 13 Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. 14 Five is right out. 15 Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.' 16 Then shalt thou curse the ground, for the board where thou commentest when the pub is not open any longer, is also not open any longer. 17 Amen. Admit you were wrong, and we can move on.

Date: 2006/06/29 03:27:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Louis @ June 29 2006,07:50) Since we're discussing inane witterings of madmen,... I believe I resemble that remark.     Quote (Louis @ June 29 2006,07:50) If a man speaks in a wood, and there is no woman to hear him, is he still wrong? Louis My wife assures me that indeed, he is still wrong.  In fact, she is quite sure that the he need not even speak. Lou

Date: 2006/06/29 16:39:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jujuquisp @ June 29 2006,21:25) I guarantee you, though, that my wife is more beautiful than his and my penis is longer and thicker than his. Hey juju, Just don't wave it in the Ron Numbers thread. (somebody had to say it! ) (edited to clean it up a bit.)

Date: 2006/06/30 04:29:31, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote edit: dammit, resident beat poet KE beat me to it. Gotta be quick, Steve.

Date: 2006/07/04 09:19:35, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Nala?

Date: 2006/07/06 17:27:46, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Uh oh.  Trouble in Paradise?       Quote # ajl, That’s a good point, but hang on. You seem to be assuming life as we know it. In order to rule out chance, don’t we have to rule out the chance of any possible kind of life? Do we know for an absolute fact that silicon or bzywhateverium can’t make life? My old science teacher (the million year old bald guy) used to say “The universe is not only stranger than we imagine, but stranger than we can imagine”. Aren’t they finding some pretty weird stuff down in caves and at the bottom of the ocean? Stuff that eats rocks and all? I’m not sure we can rule anything out just yet, can we? JanieBelle Genetic engineers are a fact. We know that intelligent agents can manipulate genomes for fun and profit and if you care to disagree I’ve got a bag full of genetically engineered rotten fruit to throw at you. Presumably, according to the Darwinian chance worshippers, these intelligent agents with white lab coats and gene splicing machines arose through natural processes without any intelligent help. Point #1: intelligent agents capable of genetic engineering are a natural part of the universe. Next consider that DNA and ribosomes, the protein factory that exists in every living thing we’ve examined, is a digital program controlled machine. Instructions for manufacturing different proteins are *coded* onto the spine of the DNA molecule and the ribosome reads those coded instructions just like a computer reads instructions from a program. The machine then assembles a protein according to those instructions just like computer controlled machines assemble complex pieces of automobiles. DNA and ribosomes are digitally programmed robotic protein assemblers or *machines* in every sense of the word. Point #2: All living cells so far observed contain complex machinery. Next point. In every case where we observe a machine in nature and we *know* where the machine came from, we know it came from intelligent agency. Point #3: all machines where the origin can be determined come from intelligent agents.. Point #1: intelligent agents capable of genetic engineering are a natural part of the universe. Point #2: all living cells so far observed contain complex machinery. Point #3: all machines where the origin can be determined come from intelligent agents. Now tell me why it’s unreasonable to consider it a strong possibility that the living machinery of life is the result of intelligent agency. If anyone can describe to me a plausible way for complex program code driven machinery on the level of DNA and ribosomes can assemble via chance interactions of chemicals with no forethought then I’ll reevaluate whether ID is the best explanation for where these machines came from. Until then, the best explanation is rather obvious unless you’ve got some kind of mental block that makes you refuse to believe it possible that intelligence existed in the universe before humans came along. -ds Comment by janiebelle — July 6, 2006 @ 7:19 pm # For the benefit of the readers, various numbers have been floated around for the minimum number of parts of a self-replicating von-neumann automata (which is a necessary condition for life). Something on the order of 1 out of 10^40,000 for probability was my inference from von Neumann’s writings. This is independent of the physical substrate of the automata, whether it is made of semi-conductor materials, DNA, amino acids, whatever….. Because the architectures of the automata are recognized as independent (since we see partial constructs of it in engineering), and the specification was present before we knew much of the cell, it does not matter whether one defines life another way because what matters is we have found an artifact (life) matching an information rich independent specification (Turing machines and von neumann automata). They are even more information rich than Paley’s watch. Thus a design inference is reasonable even if we were to define life another way. After all, a complex machine is still a complex machine! The von-neumann automata was mentioned in Dr. Albert Voie’s paper. I’d like to announce that possibly in a week or so, Dr. Albert Voie may visit our weblog! The number 10^150 which I gave above thus one of the smaller numbers I had available. I invite my fellow UDers to give some of the numbers they are familiar with. Salvador Comment by scordova — July 6, 2006 @ 7:38 pm # Ok, now I’m lost again. I’m gonna do what I said before, and we’ll have to come back to all that stuff. Enjoy your weekend, Salvadore. JanieBelle Comment by janiebelle — July 6, 2006 @ 8:22 pm # Easy, Dave, I’m not suggesting anything else. I’m trying to understand how Salvadore and these guys prove mathematically that evolution isn’t true, or as Salvadore said earlier, that it’s mathematically nearly impossible for chance to explain life. I’m just trying to see how we cover all the bases, so there are no holes for things to slip through. I agree that it’s kind of dumb for them to say “we made this happen without intelligence”. If they made it happen, well, duh, there’s intelligence. I’m just trying to understand this, it’s not really necessary for you to be rude and yell at me about mental blocks. Sorry if I said something to P you O. JanieBelle Comment by janiebelle — July 6, 2006 @ 9:54 pm Aww, a spat.  How sweet.  She's on her way out.  Think she's really a plant?  She's a pretty good one, if she is.  Maybe she's really Dembski, testing the troops.

Date: 2006/07/10 18:06:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 10 2006,21:43) American fundies are like that -- kiss their asses and mouth their platitudes and they'll overlook anything you do in your personal life. Well as long as you're not too public about it.  They were apparently slobbering all over Janiebelle right up until she was rumored to have announced she was sweating up the sheets with an allegedly girl Marine. They're supposedly hypocritical bastards in theory who don't even believe their own hypothetical bullshit.  They won't rest until they allegedly run the world as apparent dictators. Janie got banned from Uncommon Descent Near as I can tell, DaveTard just don't like girls.  Have you read her stuff?  I think my wife's getting a little jealous... Takes one to know one, homo.  Hey, wait.  ####. Now I have to ban myself.- dt (edited to add appropriate disclaimer words to avoid lawsuits and the Wrath of Tard)

Date: 2006/07/10 18:20:32, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

You can catch a "lack of sexual preference"?  Oh man I'm gonna force my wife to read the whole blog.

Date: 2006/07/11 01:50:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (guthrie @ July 11 2006,06:30) because laying is immoral. Oh well, I guess I'm going to he11. You might want to adjust that.

Date: 2006/07/13 11:16:15, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Is this idiot scumbag still around?  I'd have thought he'd have been smart enough to go away by now.

Date: 2006/10/10 05:45:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

You know, the whole time I was living under my self-imposed ban, I had craploads of stuff to say.  Now that I've been notified by email that it's ok that I return, I seem to have been afflicted with the deadly cat-tongue disease. I guess I just want to start by saying "Thanks" to all our loyal fans, and reiterate my apology to Dr. Elsberry.  Sorry Wes. Peace.

Date: 2006/10/10 06:18:38, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

The post in question was early on, Deadman.  It's title was "Message for Deadman" I think, and was in response to one of your Doubting Thomas type comments here. As for the identity of the young lady in the picture, I'll not be revealing that, other than to say it was a friend of the family who found immense pleasure and untold amounts of humor in the whole thing. Steve, please pass on my sincerest thanks to the governor.  I've missed this place, and it won't happen again. guthrie, I really hope you're not as upset by the whole thing as you seemed to be with the instruction manual comment. I'd hate to think I p'd you off.

Date: 2006/10/10 06:38:37, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote And so the conquering hero returns in triumph to the mud streets of the leper colony, amidst an appreciative shower of flowers, confused cheers, and empty popcorn boxes...   [slaps hands together] Okay! Let the punitive processing begin! Never let it be said the Church Burnin' Ebola boys ain't forgiving...

Date: 2006/10/10 07:13:56, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Deadman, She enjoyed having you there.  I couldn't hardly get her to stop giggling long enough to stand still so I could take the picture. And Kayla was cracking up, which wasn't helping at all.  (The girls' niece is actually my daughter, btw.) Rich, Thanks, and I guess I'll have to "bite". How many? (And, of course, were they really good?  Chocolate chip?  The girls LOVE chocolate, so they'd probably have bought a bunch if you'd've asked!

Date: 2006/10/10 07:21:15, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hey Rich! Don't you still owe the girls a guest post?

Date: 2006/10/10 07:26:02, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 10 2006,12:22) On the one hand, I think the P2P approach of things like OverwhelmingEvidence is smart, it gets around the court system. On the other hand, it's a case of middle-aged adults trying to act 'hip' and 'radical' to teenagers, so I'm not too worried it'll succeed. Oh, I don't know, Steve.  Middle aged adults acting hip and radical and bisexual seems to work pretty well on middle aged autodidact polymaths with subscriptions to Scientific American and SATIQ scores of 85 billion.... Just so y'know.

Date: 2006/10/10 07:31:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks, Deadman.  I'll raise one to all our fans myself tonight.  It was just a little challenge that grew into something with a life of its own.  Two lives, actually. Funny that it never got a mention on UD after the girls "came out".  Not even a "those damned lying darwinists didn't fool ME!"  Wonder if that could be because even his mindless minions wouldn't be able to deny the OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE? Sorry, couldn't resist.

Date: 2006/10/10 11:43:57, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Fair enough, guthrie.  Remember that Janie's a lit student, though.  There were intimations that she was going off to Oxford, though that was never explicitly said.  17 year old girls don't get into Oxford by being slouches.  And she HAD to be well above average in the noggin to do the job she was intended to do, which was ask embarrasing questions at UD.  She really didn't get much of a chance to do that, but by that time, things were quickly moving well beyond what was originally intended. Well I wasn't a Marine, but I WAS in the service, which is why Kate knew the lingo to keep Davey interested.  Most military jargon transfers rather well for long periods of time, and with just a little help from some Marines around here, I could tweak it in a hurry. I was rather proud of some of the posts, though.  "Kissing Corporal Kate", "My Mistress", "The Dreams", "Mom Please Don't Read This One", "My Lover is Freaky", and some of the others seemed to me to have some literary merit that I really enjoyed.  'Course I might be biased. It was fun.  It wasn't meant to get so involved, it just sort of spun out of control. Anyways, I'm glad you're not pissed, though I understand your discomfort.

Date: 2006/10/10 12:06:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote I think we should take up a collection to send JanieBelle and Corporal Kate to the DI /CSC dinner.  What a hoot that would be!  I'm good for $20. Janie and Kate would go "all breezy" under their dresses (we guys know this as going commando) and flashing Bill Dembski. Jonathan Wells would come on to Janie, and Kate would probably whack 'em upside his head.  There might wind up being a naked jello cat fight somewhere along the line.  MorphoDyke Denyse would definitely be targeted with a large raw fish from the kitchen. DaveScot would wind up being tied to a chair where he'd be videotaped and forced to tell his mama he was a homo. Then they'd have to kick the girls out. Janie would leave peacefully but it'd take 3-4 security personnel to expel Kate.  She doesn't really take crap from anybody.

Date: 2006/10/10 12:11:37, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Y'know if I wanted to know something about biology, the first place I'd go is to the experts in the field...  the graphic artists. Yep.

Date: 2006/10/10 12:19:11, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (guthrie @ Oct. 10 2006,16:57) Well, those bits were rather well written.  And you did hinit rather a bit that "she" was going to Oxford, although I can never remember if they take 17 year olds these days or not.  They sometimes used to. Thanks, guthrie. I didn't know if Oxford did or not, and was betting that 8 billion SATIQ Dave didn't either. It was a pretty safe bet.

Date: 2006/10/10 12:30:32, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I'm thinking of going as two lesbians young girls without sexual preference....

Date: 2006/10/10 12:33:04, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote What makes them useless? Their creators, oddly enough.

Date: 2006/10/10 12:35:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Careful, Ved.  You never know what kinds of things go on in here....

Date: 2006/10/10 12:43:39, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hey, while I was on...um.. hiatus from AtBC, I read something about spiders having silk glands in their feet, too! I lost the reference, anyone else see that?

Date: 2006/10/10 20:53:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks, Rev.

Date: 2006/10/11 09:50:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Cedric Katesby @ Oct. 11 2006,13:53) The rule is "whatever works baby". Can I be so bold as to amend that to read   Quote The rule is "whatever works for the moment baby". ? Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Oct. 11 2006,14:34) It’s your continued pattern of lying to others that’s so unchristian and disturbing. Oh, I don't know OA.  From what I can tell lately, that's VERY christian and disturbing.

Date: 2006/10/11 09:58:14, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Oh, Lookie Here! A newly discovered species of bird.  One more to add to your list of critters to be squeezed into the ark, Davey. Appropriately enough, it's a new kind of finch.

Date: 2006/10/12 03:08:05, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Date: 2006/10/12 07:24:44, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Oct. 12 2006,11:04)   Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 10 2006,17:30) I'm thinking of going as two lesbians young girls without sexual preference.... Would that really be a costume? I'm not even sure anymore!

Date: 2006/10/12 07:28:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 12 2006,10:51)   Quote (Aardvark @ Oct. 11 2006,20:35)   Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 11 2006,14:49) JAD GETS BOOTED AGAIN http://www.uncommondescent.com/archives/1694#comment-68137 I love it so! Whack that mole! This is now a great read...! I wonder if Dr. Dawkins would like to borrow the Big Green Marker....

Date: 2006/10/12 08:20:56, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

No, it was an unknown intelligent designer who may well have been a space alien.

Date: 2006/10/12 08:30:07, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Oct. 12 2006,13:25) Looking over the fiasco at RichardDawkins.net, I'm starting to think that this may be JAD's problem. Or ONE of them, at least. Holy Crap.  That should have DAJ's picture in the definition!

Date: 2006/10/17 06:51:24, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I hope they all eat the cake AFTER they piss on it... oh.  analogy.  right.  I knew that. I still hope they all eat pissy cake.

Date: 2006/10/17 06:55:36, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Joseph, comment 78... Quote As John Davison once posted: “‘Of course evolution is the cornerstone of biology. That does not mean the Darwinian version of the process has any validity.” There's something EXTRA Tardilicious about quoting DAJ to back up a point about ANYTHING. He needs a Special Tard Award.

Date: 2006/10/19 02:18:48, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Y'all will have to forgive me, I'm just the son of a carpenter, but... If Eve was made from Adam's rib, wouldn't that make her a clone, and thus have exactly the same genes etc as Adam?  Wouldn't that mean they were homozygowhatsits? If so, wouldn't that cut the available genetic material in half? Just wonderin'.

Date: 2006/10/19 02:50:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I don't know.  Seems to me that this whole "fine tuning" thing rests on the assumption that this is the only way it could possibly work. "Why is the universe the way it is?" is a lot different than "Why is the universe in the only possible configuration in which it could be?". Again, I'm just the son of a carpenter.  I didn't even finish my physics degree, so my tuppence is worth exactly what you just paid for it.

Date: 2006/10/19 04:57:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 19 2006,08:28) Lou FCD...     Quote If Eve was made from Adam's rib, wouldn't that make her a clone, and thus have exactly the same genes etc as Adam?  Wouldn't that mean they were homozygowhatsits? No I don't think so. My understanding is that .... I have no idea if you're right or wrong about this, but you'll forgive me if I don't defer to your understanding of Jack Squat. Nutbag. My question is whether Adam and Eve could have had different genes. Improvius' comment answered my question. So.  My next question is can two people be clones, have the same genes, and be different genders? Seems not.  Otherwise you could have identical twins of different genders, right?

Date: 2006/10/19 09:10:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

And lo, Jesus spake with a loud voice unto Argy and saith, "Taketh thy alleles and sticketh them in thine own jeans... the back part."

Date: 2006/10/19 11:35:09, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

That SLOT argument keeps coming back like Freddy Krueger... and it's just about as real. Kinda scary though, in its own way.  I mean, can people really be THAT stubborn and THAT stupid? oh. It's Nightmare on Discovery Institute Street.

Date: 2006/10/19 12:19:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

HAHAHAHAHAHA (I don't even remember what I was laughing at, but it was really f'ing funny!

Date: 2006/10/19 12:34:29, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Chris Hyland @ Oct. 19 2006,17:30) Is it just me or does that sound dirty? Only if you're doing it right.

Date: 2006/10/19 12:46:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Myeh... it ain't bamagin' yer drain 'til you're impersonatin' a fire engine like Catherine Eddows on Gin.

Date: 2006/10/20 02:26:11, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (carlsonjok @ Oct. 20 2006,06:50) Quote (Crabby Appleton @ Oct. 20 2006,02:37) Hey Davey, why hasn't an archaeologist, anthropologist, biblical scholar or anyone else for that matter, ever found human remains that show the wear of 900 years of living (or 500, or 100)? It'd be pretty hard to hide that kind of wear and tear on a human skeleton even if they were "genetically rich"! Don't wave your hands or diddle your nose. 'Splain please. Don't mean to butt in here, but I found this explanation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeMMyrSAkNo Hope that helps. Oh, well that settles it.  I'm converted.

Date: 2006/10/20 11:42:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Altabin @ Oct. 20 2006,15:18)   Quote (improvius @ Oct. 20 2006,22:15)   Quote (Altabin @ Oct. 20 2006,16:10) Oh, come on, hereoisreal is just one of you guys f#cking with us.  Really.  I'm onto my third glass of rare Sicilian blueberry amaro and this still doesn't make any f#cking sense. No.  He's been doing this bit for at least over a year.  Maybe this is the first he's been on AtBC, but he's been around for a while.  If it's a spoof, it's an extremely long-running one. Has Lou FCD ever been seen in the same room as him? Um... I might resent that. I at least had style!

Date: 2006/10/20 11:45:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Not to mention I Janie can spell, and I she makes sense... I hope.

Date: 2006/10/21 02:26:51, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Ichthyic @ Oct. 21 2006,05:40) Quote What is this world coming to?! a preference for wood paneled floors? I'm sure that's where the attraction to basketball comes from. Exactly.  EVERYONE knows that the best floors are made of ice.

Date: 2006/10/21 08:35:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 21 2006,12:13) I'm interested in YOUR response to MY statements, not a big list of links, the content of which, you probably don't even comprehend. Deadman: Now stand aside, worthy adversary. AfDave: 'Tis but a scratch. Deadman: A scratch? Your arm's off. AfDave: No it isn't. Deadman: What's that, then? AfDave: [after a pause] I've had worse. Deadman: You liar. AfDave: Come on ya pansy. (Deadman cuts off other arm) Deadman: "Look, you stupid Bastard. You've got no arms left." AfDave: "Yes I have." Deadman: "Look!" AfDave: "It's just a flesh wound." (Deadman cuts off one leg) AfDave: "Right, I'll do you for that!" Deadman: "You'll what?" AfDave: "Come here!" Deadman: "What are you gonna do, bleed on me?" AfDave: "I'm invincible!" Deadman: "...You're a loony." (Deadman cuts off AfDave's last leg) AfDave: "Okay, we'll call it a draw." Deadman: "Come, Jeannot." (Deadman and Jeannot ride off) AfDave: "Oh! Had enough, eh? Come back and take what's coming to you, you yellow bastards! Come back here and take what's coming to you! I'll bite your legs off!"

Date: 2006/10/21 11:40:20, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Ichthyic @ Oct. 21 2006,15:26)   Quote Exactly.  EVERYONE knows that the best floors are made of ice. oops, except that much of the time those nice ice floors are covered by parquet floors, again showing the preference for nice wood flooring. how many hockey arenas do you know that host basketball venues, instead of vice versa? B-ball rules! I wonder how long this little bit of OT will go... Well, if Easterbrook writes for ESPN, then it's only tangentally off topic, right?  Plus,.. Well, I can't think of another reason why this isn't off topic, but any Intelligently Designed floor would be set up for hockey since hockey is the greatest sport in the 6,000 year history of the universe, and hockey can be played on both wood and ice.  Can you imagine playing roundball on ice?  I thought not. I win.  (AFDave style.)

Date: 2006/10/22 09:16:34, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

"IDtheFuture" "Oxymoron".... mostly without the oxy.

Date: 2006/10/22 09:26:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Nah... AFDave is every bit as stupid as he appears. Whether he is a fake or real troll is irrelevent.

Date: 2006/10/23 01:12:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

His "logic has no place in science" comment has to make it on his All Time Hits list.  Classic.  Explains a lot about DAJ, too.

Date: 2006/10/23 09:44:46, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Steviepinhead @ Oct. 23 2006,14:19) ... in which your positions have been reduced to smoking carnage). While you turn a lovely phrase Steviepinhead, I'm not sure "smoking carnage" is really appropriate, as it seems to imply the wreckage of something substantial that once stood.  Perhaps I might suggest "ephemeral ashes of a small paper house set alight by a cheap bic lighter" to connotate the fragility of the original structure of Dave's "hypothesis", and the ease with which it is destroyed.

Date: 2006/10/24 03:07:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Oct. 23 2006,20:25) I'm sticking with the "Freeloader Hypothesis". Alas, I'm not typing it all out here.  So you'll have to do a search for it over at the PT if you want to see it.   Here's the link to the comment at PT for The Freeloader Hypothesis, put forth by the Good Reverend Doctor. If I may, just for reference...   Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Apr. 20, 2006,18:37) Re: the “Mars” hypothesis of religion: I’m more of the “Freeloader” hypothesis of religion. It goes something like this: In most nonhuman primate societies, the Big Cheese, the guy in charge (and it is invariably a guy), is able to run things because he can beat up all challengers (or, in more socially-oriented nonhuman primate societies, he can build an alliance of others that will support him and beat up all his challengers). In the earliest human societies, that was probably true as well. Alas, ruling by raw intimidation is, uh, kind of wasteful of energy, time and (once you develop effective weapons) members of the social group. So it’s an enormous advantage to coerce social members without using physical methods to do it. Enter “religion”. It’s a given that all the members of the early human social group were frightened, awed and (most importantly) unable to explain or control the forces of nature. Enter the “shaman”, the guy with the “special ability” to understand and even control (or at least appear to) the unseen and incomprehensible supernatural forces (aka THE GODS). The Big Cheese, meanwhile, sees a powerful ally, and … voila. Organized religion. The Big Cheese is the Big Cheese not just because he can beat up anyone who challenges him, but he also has the shaman on his side — and that means he also has THE GODS on his side, who can REALLY REALLY beat up anyone who displeases them. Oh, and by the way, social group members, we priests/Big Cheese are terribly busy all the time with this “communing with THE GODS” thingie (you don’t want THE GODS to send another drought like they did *last* year, do you?), so you can’t possibly expect *us* to, uh, you know, WORK or anything. We’ll leave that all to you wonderfully loyal social members, who will therefore please THE GODS and make them happy by doing whatever the shaman/priests tell you THE GODS want you to do. Such as, oh, give a portion of everything you produce to us – uh, I mean, to THE GODS. And if you don’t, by golly, THE GODS will beat you up really really bad. Just you wait and see. Oh, and by the way, THE GODS want you to invade that tribe’s territory over there because I want its fruit trees — uh, I mean, THE GODS want us to punish that tribe for its sins, and THE GODS have graciously given us their land. So get to it. Me, I’ll be here with the priests, communing with THE GODS on your behalf. And indeed, organized religion has been a tool of the political/economic ruling elite ever since. Heck, in the case of most ancient societies, it WAS the ruling elite. And you know what? They STILL don’t do any work for their living. Just thought I'd help.

Date: 2006/10/24 03:15:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Awe, come on, guthrie!  The North Atlantic can't be too cold to swim if there's BEER involved!

Date: 2006/10/26 03:59:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Oct. 25 2006,19:11) Quote (Kristine @ Oct. 24 2006,22:31) Being that I am a belly dancer Come on, you can't post something like THIS to a bunch of socially-challenged science geeks crowded around their computer keyboards, without posting a couple URL's to some **photos*** . . . . . . Whilst I have no urls for pictures for ya' Rev, you can find Kristine's blog at http://amused-muse.blogspot.com/. You might get a more prompt response there.  Great blog, highly recommended by both myself and the girls.

Date: 2006/10/26 04:05:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 26 2006,01:32) Crikey. K.E.'s posts are starting to make sense to me. I'm spending too much time on this damm site. Uh-oh.  I had that exact same thought yesterday...

Date: 2006/10/26 04:31:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

AFDave's however, are a different story. Still.

Date: 2006/10/26 04:49:29, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ Oct. 26 2006,06:56) The signers are anthropologists, biologists, chemists, geologists, physicists and psychologists. What?  No LAWYERS?  No ENGINEERS?  No Ex-Dell putter-togetherers? What kind of science and biology statement is THAT??

Date: 2006/10/26 04:54:57, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

We interupt this thread for a very important Public Service Announcement: Children, this is your brain on crack.  Don't do drugs. Now back to your regularly scheduled thread of IDiot hilarity.

Date: 2006/10/26 05:03:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (afdave @ Oct. 26 2006,09:57) OA ... you are beginning to be a little more intellectually honest, [snip] What would YOU know about THAT?

Date: 2006/10/26 05:07:12, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Shirley Knott @ Oct. 26 2006,09:57) no hugs for thugs, And no kisses for ...um... thugs. Crap. fishes? no.... pisses.... nah... crap.

Date: 2006/10/26 05:12:26, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

oooo..... No lips for drips! How 'bout that? (Sorry, Shirley, I get a kick out of it every time you say that!  Consider it an homage?)

Date: 2006/10/26 05:29:48, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks, Steve.  I was in the process of posting such a request in the UD thread when this crap disappeared. I for one appreciate it. Peace.

Date: 2006/10/26 05:34:36, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Woo Hooo!!!  ID is SCIENCE!!!  DAWKINS SAYS SO!!! Looks like O'Leary is throwing a party. Ok, well, it's false science, but hey, it's a step in the right direction, right? right? Too funny.

Date: 2006/10/26 06:08:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (k.e @ Oct. 26 2006,10:58) Well..... I'm trying to work out if that is a good sign or a bad sign ...not to worry ...they make perfect sense to me...snicker. So are we. Seriously, some of the stuff you come up with is an obvious reference to something, I just have no idea what.  I figure I'm pretty well-read, for a Christian high school gradidigiot, but apparently not well-read enough. Some of the other stuff you come up with is like the lingering after-effects of a really good acid trip. Some of the other stuff just totally loses me. Lately, however, I've understood a much larger percentage of what you say, and more importantly, what you're driving at - your point, as it were. So either you are becoming more lucid, or I'm becoming more educated... Or I'm becoming less lucid. It's the third option that scares me.

Date: 2006/10/26 06:54:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ok, look hero. UD stuff goes in this thread.  Mad ramblings of a crack addict go in the hereoisreal thread, which you yourself started.  That way, if anyone is interested in reading about UD, they can come here and not have to wade through a bunch of crap they're not interested in. Admittedly, we all get a bit off topic from time to time.  I'm probably as bad about that as anyone here.  Worse, probably. But you have an entire thread dedicated just to you.  Please use it. Quote I suspect both of you are telling me where to go. You suspect correctly.  Go HERE, the Hereoisreal thread You are not being silenced, you are being catagorized, so please don't play the martyr card.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:14:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 26 2006,12:07) Hereoisreal, don't make me laugh by comparing this site to UD. Now, if you have something to say which is relevant to UD, put it in this thread. If you have extensive numerology or anecdotes to share, which aren't related to UD, put it in your own thread. Right, because if this were UD, you'd probably have gotten one of these by now.   Quote (DaveScot @ Oct. 26 2006,11:03) PhilVaz There has been debate among the moderators whether to ban you. I defended you. However, given your uninformed comment that ID claims the designer is God I’m going to admit an error and correct it right now. You’re history.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:21:20, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Same Thread   Quote (jerry @ Oct 26th 2006,11:32) Dave, Ban me too. I took no offense at Phil Vaz’s comment about the designer being God. I would guess that a very large majority of the pro ID people here explicitly believe the designer is God. Challenge him on it instead of banning him. Certainly Dembski and Behe personally think it is God who is the designer and I am sure most of the others who are pro ID think so too. When the discussion trespasses into discussions of God nearly all the time, it is hard not to associate the designer with God. This is not really a site about science but more of a venue for people to espouse their personal philosophies. So demanding that Phil Vaz’s comments be kept to the science of ID alone given the threads of the last few days is ludicrous. Yep, a venue for people to espouse their personal philosophies blog all about the science of ID.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:23:51, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Crap.  Gotta be quick around here.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:27:15, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

####, Rich.  I can't even seem to arrange that for MYSELF! ('course, my wife would have my head if I even TRIED! And I'm not really sure the girls ever really ruled that out, anyway. Just so y'know...

Date: 2006/10/26 07:30:37, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 26 2006,12:25) LOL. I'm waiting for the day when, in a fit of pique, Dave reads one of his own comments and bans himself before he realizes what's he's doing. Hmmm!  Now that WOULD be classic.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:33:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ericmurphy @ Oct. 26 2006,12:31) Quote (afdave @ Oct. 26 2006,12:22) I like JohnW's new tack on the info thing ... I think I'll throw my own new tack in for grins ... Churchill Speech = Maximum Info FDR Speech = Minimal Info Bill Clinton Speech = Zero Info By the way, "Bush speech = negative info." Of course, I could generalize that to "AF Dave post = negative info," too, and for the same reasons. And in the meantime, did you kind of skip over the "redundancy" part of my bullet points, Dave? I hate flood control.

Date: 2006/10/26 07:42:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

(bump) I know I said this a few months ago, but I really feel the need to reiterate. Anecdotally, I think I can safely say that folks like AFDave bump religious fundyism a few points on the TOSICA. Watching him over the past few months has really been enlightening.  (AFDave, that's BAD news for you, not good.) The extreme denial of reality at all costs can't be good for kids.  It has to stunt their education horribly. [EDIT for spelling]

Date: 2006/10/26 07:50:38, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (carlsonjok @ Oct. 26 2006,12:41)   Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 26 2006,12:14)           Quote (DaveScot @ Oct. 26 2006,11:03) PhilVaz There has been debate among the moderators whether to ban you. I defended you. However, given your uninformed comment that ID claims the designer is God I’m going to admit an error and correct it right now. You’re history. Holy Reformation, Batman!  One of the regulars (jerry) is starting to rebel. Yeah, he's on his way out.... ID ain't about religion no matter what Dembski, O'Leary, and Cordova say!  You're outta here, HOMO! - dt

Date: 2006/10/26 07:55:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (hereoisreal @ Oct. 26 2006,12:52) I got it. Two weeks ago. Bill pushed the button, but he said to the mods, " I'll recend if the majority wants him back." I have the E. I have never tried to post again. Zero The point of that was that you haven't gotten it HERE, despite your arcane, illogical, and off-topic comments in this thread.

Date: 2006/10/26 08:06:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 26 2006,12:55) It just seems that this should be said ever so often. Glen D Agreed, Glen.  Insight that needs to be mentioned every now and again. And yet...   Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 26 2006,12:55) What is unusual is how many losses he is willing to take. I wonder if AFDave's willingness to take on so many losses is a sign of his utter desperation, and thus a sign that he secretly doesn't accept all that he espouses.  Are his ridiculous attempts here just a manifestation of his fear, his knowing that when he dies he will not be rewarded in heaven?  Is it possible that this is a desperate search for any point, just one, that will ease his aching doubts? Whereas other creationists are content to swallow the bullshiite whole and relax, is this thread in itself proof that AFDave WANTS to believe, but deep down doesn't?

Date: 2006/10/26 08:32:03, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (carlsonjok @ Oct. 26 2006,13:11) Maybe. Maybe not.  I think the recent revelation that he has a meeting at AIG in November has more to do with it.   He may just be building his street cred as a culture warrior. Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 26 2006, 13:14) You may certainly be right about that, Lou.  He seems to be fighting off "the devils" afflicting him.  However, it may be his perpetuum mobile, his Sisyphean punishment for denying the sense and senses of human perception. Glen D Hmm... I'm not sure these are mutally exclusive. After a few minutes reflection, I believe that my comments may have been more self-referential than I would have cared to admit. I believe I've mentioned that I was involved in fundyism when I was a teenager, and though I hate to give Dave the "You were never a Real Christian" opening, I have to say that my comments above were truly reflective of myself at the time, though I would never have admitted that.  Not even to myself. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god. It is an even more fearful thing to realize that when you die, there may be no "I" any more.

Date: 2006/10/26 08:35:29, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hurry!  Quick!  Somebody post something about Judge Jones, before the masses notice!  Wipe the thread!  Wipe the Goddamned thread!!!!!

Date: 2006/10/26 08:45:05, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Somebody SHUT THAT FRANKY GUY UP!!! Quote 16. franky172  // Oct 26th 2006 at 1:24 pm Jared, We don’t know the designing agent can not be a strictly physical being, You may be right, but I think that Dr. Dembski appears to disagree with you, at least in this essay: “no intelligent agent who is strictly physical could have presided over the origin of the universe or the origin of life.” http://www.leaderu.com/offices/dembski/docs/bd-the_ac.html and we don’t know the universe was designed. I pointed out in another thread that the assertion of the design of the universe is a currently unsound application of design theory. The Discovery Institute also appears to disagree with you: http://www.discovery.org/csc....tDesign The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. Of course we are not limited in our understanding to Dr. Dembski’s or the Discovery Institutes claims, and I may be misreading those claims as well; please correct me if I am. But it seems like the main proponents of ID seem to feel the universe *itself* shows signs of design. Comment by franky172 — October 26, 2006 @ 1:24 pm

Date: 2006/10/26 08:49:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

bj, the agnostic christian....   Quote 17. bj  // Oct 26th 2006 at 1:36 pm I don’t have many doubts that most of the contributors and lurkers here believe that the designer was God, particularly the Christian God. And honestly, that is one of the reasons that attracted me to the site. Yet, other options exist. All that is required as a minimum belief is that some form of intelligence is present in the universe and in living organisms. There are a number of ways to flesh this out short of full-blow theism. Or one can, like myself, believe that there is something beyond matter and energy, like intelligence, but be agnostic about it true nature and origins. Comment by bj — October 26, 2006 @ 1:36 pm (bold mine)

Date: 2006/10/26 08:53:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 26 2006,13:48) Re "What?  No LAWYERS?  No ENGINEERS?  No Ex-Dell putter-togetherers?" Ya forgot mathematicians. Henry I did indeed.  How shameful of me.... Please pardon my omission.

Date: 2006/10/26 08:57:34, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 26 2006,13:52) BEST THREAD EVER It is plain for all to see there's a cancer at UD Keep the desinger's name well hidden Just don't ask 'who?' - it's forbidden! though you might have found it odd that our leaders think it's 'god' don't confront us with that fact Or our banning Tard will act! It's got a great hook, Rich.  Put it in the key of G and I think you've got a winner there!

Date: 2006/10/26 09:34:57, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 26 2006,13:58) There is also a clever, equaly vaild counter-argument, RIGHT! Yes, I believe that one was pioneered in the sixties and seventies by Chilly Philly Homeboy, Bill Cosby, and interestingly enough, he was parodying Noah...

Date: 2006/10/26 10:32:34, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Our Pal Sal Quote (Our Pal Sal @ October 26, 2006 @ 8:45 am ) Gentleman, Whatever theories we may hold, science should welcome skepticism and even be willing to ponder outrageous ideas. An Old-Earth view of physics and geology is in light years better shape than Darwinian evolution, however, it still should not be given a free pass. Skepticism is a good thing. The question Jerry poses are reasonable, but one might look at Sullivan Mountain in Walter Brown’s writings and the bent sedimentary rocks with marine fossils embedded in the sedimentary rock and decide whether Brown has a better explanation for bent sedimentary rock than someone else. I also pointed out basic thermodynamics is at variance with prevailing explanations for volcanoes. This is well documented in peer review. I encourage the reader to see my debate with Darwinist Geologist Joe Meert. That said, the topic of this thread was Old-Earth Creationist Richard Smalley. I would appreciate a few more comments on him as this thread is in tribute to him. Sal (bold mine) Well, that's one I hadn't heard before...

Date: 2006/10/26 10:40:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ScaryFacts @ Oct. 26 2006,13:38)   Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 26 2006,14:32) After a few minutes reflection, I believe that my comments may have been more self-referential than I would have cared to admit. Great post Lou. One of the things that amazes me about the people here is their openness and honesty.  It's refreshing. Well thanks.  I wish I could claim some sort of moral high ground here, but the truth is that the girls (Kate in particular) have made it abundantly clear that anything short of complete honestly would reflect badly on them, for which I would get my ass kicked.

Date: 2006/10/26 10:57:36, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 26 2006,15:48) Quote Yes, I believe that one was pioneered in the sixties and seventies by Chilly Philly Homeboy, Bill Cosby, and interestingly enough, he was parodying Noah Good Googly, I recall that album. That was the one that also included the bit on shaving:  "tiny li'l hairs that grow out muh face...zip zop zip, I've been cut to ribbons" I heard that right after the Cheech and Chong ones came out. Then I listened to Lenny Bruce and The Goon Show, found Monty Python and topped it with Pink Floyd and LZ to create a frontier that I never stopped exploring. Interestingly enough, I had that on vinyl (the greatest hits, though).  One of my very first albums of my own (that didn't involve muppets, that is).  I was thinking about it the other day, my kids had no idea what I was talking about, so I went to Wal-Mart online and downloaded the whole album.... and actually PAID for it. Perhaps I should host the files somewhere, just for fun... "Old Weird Harold was six-nine, weighed 50 pounds..." It's the LORD, Noah. Right....

Date: 2006/10/26 12:01:53, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

really rather interesting" This has to be the funniest headline I've seen at Space.com (It's currently the second of the three revolving headlines on the home page) Oh, and the link to the story itself is http://www.space.com/searchforlife/seti_uranus_061026.html It's good to know that scientists and science reporters have a sense of humor. I have a 12 year old son, so my potty humor is in its Renaissance. Of course that sheds new light on this quote from the article... Quote Showalter of the SETI Institute also has been observing Uranus with Hubble

Date: 2006/10/26 12:05:05, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote There is a reason for the recent spate of activity on Uranus. Just so y'know. Ok, I'm in tears, I have to go for a while and compose myself before family science night at the middle school...

Date: 2006/10/26 14:11:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Shaner74 Quote “Being taught about #### - being taught that if you sin you will go to everlasting damnation, and really believing that - is going to be a harder piece of child abuse than the comparatively mild sexual abuse.” This Dawkins guy seems absolutely mad! What would happen if the above quote was said by a Meyer, or Dembski, or Wells? There would be outrage. Everything I read from Dawkins makes me shake my head in disbelief. How on Earth he maintains a job when he’s constantly making these nonsensical statements in public is a mystery. On the bright side though, if there was a way to build a cyborg whose purpose was to turn people in the direction of ID without using hard science, its name would be Richard Dawkins. "What?  An atheist that doesn't beleive in He77 and thinks you shouldn't terrorize children?  He's nuts!  That's NONSENSE!  How can he worship Satan, if he doesn't believe in He77? ? ? ? ? ? "

Date: 2006/10/26 14:15:13, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I'm with ALF, because quite simply, ALF rocks.

Date: 2006/10/26 14:25:26, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (shaner74 @ Oct 25th 2006,9:19 pm) Nightlight brings up a good point concerning quantum physics, and its decidedly non-deterministic nature. I believe many people that visit this site and others like it are versed in QP, yet nobody ever seems to bring it up. There are many interpretations of it, but most seem to point to “mind” existing outside of matter. It just seems odd to me that physicists are dealing with this stuff called matter that is anything but “material” and can be called just plain weird, while Darwinists like Dawkins are still acting like atoms are solid things bumping around aimlessly in space. Comment by shaner74 — October 25, 2006 @ 9:19 pm (my bold) Well, Shaner, given their expertise in biology, thermodynamics, geology,....

Date: 2006/10/26 14:48:09, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

A state of denial that would make Laura Bush proud. I wonder if the first lady is secretly AFDave's mom... Quote "Absolutely I think that is wrong," Bush said in an exclusive interview with CNN Wednesday. "Of course, the president has been frank from the very very first speech he gave to the country after the September 11 attacks, talking about this is a long war, this is a very difficult war. "It's a different war than our country has ever faced. The enemy can make a big show on television like they did for the bloody last month we had in Iraq by blowing themselves up a lot of times along with other people. But our success is not so easy to see. But the fact is that we are succeeding."

Date: 2006/10/26 15:06:02, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

huh.  I'm just wonderin'.  Besides being the leader of the IDEA club, does anyone have any idea what Sal actually does? I mean, I've never really heard anyone say that he was an actual working engineer, or a teacher, or even mention much about his being a student. Does he actually do anything besides entertain us?

Date: 2006/10/26 15:17:46, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Link to the LiveScience blurb is in the quote...   Quote "This is the oldest known bee we've ever been able to identify, and it shares some of the features of wasps," said lead author George Poinar, a researcher from Oregon State University. "But overall it's more bee than wasp, and gives us a pretty good idea of when these two types of insects were separating on their evolutionary paths." 100 million years old, in a mine in the Hukawng Valley of Myanmar, trapped in amber. Very cool. EDIT TO ADD:  Here's the link to the Science article which also talks about the genome sequencing, as a bonus.

Date: 2006/10/27 02:53:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (k.e @ Oct. 26 2006,23:43) To paraphrase Alexander Pope 'To project is human, to reflect divine' So that means I'm GOD, right?   (Actually, in a manner of speaking, since god was created in man's image, I guess that statement is true!  Now where did I put those lightning-bolts-for-striking-down-lying-AFDave....) Seriously, after months of watching AFDave lie, cheat, and steal, and never once even attempting to posit evidence for his actual "hypothesis" (sort of makes this whole thread off-topic, right?), I'm finding this conversation much more interesting than AFDave.  Funny that discussing AFDave is more productive than discussing WITH AFDave.   Quote (k.e @ Oct. 26 2006,23:43) It's funny you say that but I have come to the same conclusion several times when replying to AFD. And have had to catch myself and re-do some comments. I'm almost ashamed to admit that reading his blather reminds me of myself back in the mid-eighties.  Though I have to say that I'm pretty sure I never went to quite this extreme to deny reality, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't close.  This whole thread regularly brings up memories that make me quite uncomfortable.  It's a hard thing to be constantly reminded of the most embarrassing moments years of your life. Nevertheless, I sometimes choose not to go back and remove the things I (moments later) realize are as much painful memories as comments on AFDave.   Quote (k.e @ Oct. 26 2006,23:43) AFD's programming has made him completely immune to world views outside his cult. I've noticed this before in religious cults, the programming is actually REINFORCED by pressure from outside agents to change their view. "Thou will be greatly strengthened by challenges to your faith" etc. etc. Quite.  And that is, after all, the POINT of the programming which takes place.  A believer who looks behind the curtain to see the broken down wizard doesn't cough up their 10% anymore.   Quote (k.e @ Oct. 26 2006,23:43) In the end IT IS ALL projection, as BWE's quote of Blake  shows. A consequence of mans ability to 'read minds', a necessary mechanism for social animals. Your dog can read your mind..right? I had my daughters pet rabbit (which she abandoned) playing games  and doing tricks I could read its 'mind'. Any horse person will tell you the same. Those animals are all social animals. So by 'projection' what do I mean, it is NOT the ability to see into another mind, that is actually empathy, the projected image of the other persons mind inside our mind is only the reflection of our own mind that is self generated and is limited by intelligence,values and experience .  AFD will say he is completely unaware of that (the consummate politician/liar), he honestly believes his mind is bigger than his brain (god for him) and is able to control those with weaker minds around him (to perform god's wishes) ....narcissism. AFD's god is his projected 'intelligence' which unfortunately for those around him, makes them stullifyingly stupid. Indeed.  While not a terribly good device for valid arguments, the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense seems to be rather efficient in keeping the sheep in the fold.  And the nacissistic projection of god as one's-self-only-bigger can be rather self-satisfying, I guess. Case in point: Quote (AFDave @ Oct. 27 2006,06:38) So what's happening is that YOU are staying up late and the truth apparently is bothering YOU, yet you live in "Opposite Land" so you pretend that I'm the one staying up late being bothered by the truth. While it may be true that "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god", it would also be true that "It's a less fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living god that thinks just like me."

Date: 2006/10/27 03:00:04, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Bebbo @ Oct. 27 2006,07:36) I thought it was a reasonable question that if one of the founder's of the ID movement says the designer is God why is it surprising that others think that too. I think we're all pretty clear that reason has absolutely no place at UD. Quote (Bebbo @ Oct. 27 2006,07:36) The amazing thing is that I didn't get banned for asking. Yet.

Date: 2006/10/27 03:37:02, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Today's thought for the day from LiveScience's Today in History page... Quote “The man who does not learn is dark, like one walking in the night.'' — Chinese proverb.     Appropriate, I think.

Date: 2006/10/27 04:41:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (k.e @ Oct. 27 2006,09:17) Lou FCD   Quote So that means I'm GOD, right? The Hindu greeting is to clasp together their open hands (as if to pray) point them to the guest, bow and say 'Namaste' 'I greet the god in you' In one word that sums up the difference between Western and Eastern Religion. There is a cave somewhere in India (Joeseph Campbell talks about it in one of his talks) where there is a painting of 'god'(a symbolic represenation to be taken subjectively). It has a head with a male face pointing to the right and a female face pointing to the left, one wonders if Picassso was inspired by that. Several of his paintings repeat that theme, "The Dream" by him recently in the news has the male and female face kissing on the one female body, his sleeping mistress in this case. I grok god.

Date: 2006/10/27 06:18:08, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ektobullshit Quote (Ekstasis @ Oct 27th 2006,06:41) Another quick note on Atheists. When Barbara Walters did her interview on Heaven and it aired on network tv (more on: http://www.beliefnet.com/story/181/story_18118_1.html) She interviewed Atheists, and even attended and filmed one of their “events”. Oh yes, they had a retreat and picnic, made to look like your standard church retreat. As if to say, we can have that fun and fellowship as well. The thing that struck me is that, as hard as they worked to gin up a sense of joy and frivolity, it just came across as pathetic. As if they, particularly the kids, were trying so hard to experience joy, but not quite getting there. It was painful to watch, I just felt a sense of sorrow. Yes, even Babs Wawa knows there is no joy without Jeezus. Grok some fracking coffee, moron.

Date: 2006/10/27 06:37:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 27 2006,06:44) "CSI" apparently refers to "Christ Scented Indignation,"... Can you stick that to a Christmas Tree shaped piece of cardboard and hang it from the rearview? Sell it to the rubes and make a buttload of cash...

Date: 2006/10/27 06:51:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ericmurphy @ Oct. 27 2006,11:33) Who was it who said that basically this entire thread is off-topic? That was a good one. <blush>  Thanks. Page just before this one. I'd like to thank the acadamy... and my mom... Seriously, though.  There is no scientific theory of ID, and there is no UCGH. Far as I can tell (and again, I'm just the Son of a carpenter), AFDave hasn't even attempted to present evidence.  He's just rambled on and on about stuff about which he quite obviously knows nothing, been shown to be ridiculous, waits for the page to turn, then spouts gibberish about some more stuff about which he knows nothing. Occasionally he copies and pastes some irrelevent bullshit from AiG, and just for fun he occasionally c&ps some actual science (invariably still irrelevent to the UCGH) which says exactly the opposite of what HE just said.  (Aside from The Red Dot Incident, that's the funniest part, IMHO.) So truthfully, this whole thread and its predecessor are just larger versions of The Bathroom Wall. Scribble at will.

Date: 2006/10/27 09:36:11, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Science.  There be dragons.

Date: 2006/10/27 10:27:01, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (BWE @ Oct. 27 2006,15:14) Either he is terrified or he is intentionally learning to mislead people. Or both.

Date: 2006/10/27 10:34:11, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 27 2006,15:05) Subject, "Overwhelming Evidence" date of death October 27th, 2006. It's a shame, so young yet so crap.. Well now I'm just Overwhelmed with grief.

Date: 2006/10/27 11:02:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Janie is ALWAYS down with the Big O. Just so y'know.

Date: 2006/10/27 12:19:27, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

J is the first letter in Janie Janie has 5 fingers on each hand J+5=O There is no O in Janie Belle McKnight There is no God because there is no O Janie likes the Big O She's down with that She goes down 4 that D is the 4th letter J+O+D = JOD Janie is JOD.

Date: 2006/10/27 16:46:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

The girls think you're an awesome and sexy moderator, and they would like to know why you're putting firecrackers in cats' butts.  They're dog lovers, but still a bit upset about that. I myself am also a dog man, and don't really care what you stick up a cat's butt. Just so y'know.

Date: 2006/10/28 01:14:41, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Ichthyic @ Oct. 28 2006,02:16) I do wonder why Stevestory invited "0" back for another spin at the wheel of insanity. did he forget 0 did the same thing here about a year ago? I also wonder why you all find folks that have obviously gone completely off the deep end amusing. Oh, Zero is well off his nut, I agree. Perhaps Steve Story has partially answered your question with this comment over on the UD thread. As for the fascination, I'm not sure.  Maybe it has to do with rubbernecking.  You know how drivers break their necks to look at a car accident as they pass by?  Well, maybe we've all been rubbernecking at the disasters of Ghost of Idiocy and FarceDave for so long that we've just become annoyed with them, and need a new wreck at which to gawk. Zero is a wreck, but at least he's a fresh wreck. (I've only been poking around here for about a year, so I don't really remember his first go round.)

Date: 2006/10/28 03:27:48, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 28 2006,07:46) [snip rather funny DaveTard parody] And if you were really me, you'd be using boldface type, homo.  You're outta here. - dt

Date: 2006/10/28 04:20:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

A lecture on common sense from a guy who believes in an invisible, all-seeing, all-powerful, genocidal sky-daddy who's trying to trick us all into believing the universe is old, and torturing for all eternity anyone who falls for the gag. I gotta put my boots on.

Date: 2006/10/28 16:04:17, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Myeh, Lenny's right, ID is dead and we're all just bored while we wait for the next search/replace job.

Date: 2006/10/30 01:06:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Nonsense.  If humans came from bricks, why are there still bricks?

Date: 2006/10/30 01:09:35, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (katanoese @ Oct. 30 2006,04:51) Am I reading this right? Is this as ridiculous as it looks to me? Yes.  and um... yes.

Date: 2006/10/30 01:56:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Louis @ Oct. 30 2006,07:47) Vidi vici veni Kate rather likes this one...

Date: 2006/10/30 02:25:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Vidi, vici, venis?

Date: 2006/10/30 02:34:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Louis @ Oct. 30 2006,08:30) Perhaps veni vidi membrum virilis? Louis I just ran that through the crappy latin translator I used above (first one I found on Google, no idea how good it is - I never took Latin) and here's what it just spewed back... to come vidi thin skin manfully [EDIT - I was actually going for "I saw, I conquered, she came."]

Date: 2006/10/30 02:39:14, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 30 2006,08:34) Now just go away and read your bible. ...or I shall taunt you a second time....

Date: 2006/10/30 03:55:04, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks.  The coffee is everywhere.

Date: 2006/10/30 14:49:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Ichthyic @ Oct. 21 2006,23:10) spiked cleats. round ball's in your court. Crap. I used to like you.

Date: 2006/11/02 02:36:29, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (joel the hoohoo boy @ Oct. 31 2006,Satan's Day,4:48 pm,7 hours 12 minutes before the evil hour)  The church’s silence has not only affected sex before marriage – it has found its way into the bedroom. Yes, Christians are getting divorced because the church hasn't butted into the bedroom enough yet.  Our pastors have not done enough to tell us how we should and should not have sex.  There should be more intervention in the bedroom from the man behind the pulpit.  In fact, once I'm the preacher, I'll make visits to all your bedrooms and give you a little hands-on instruction.  Truly, by allowing me to demonstrate the proper techniques on your wife's hoohoo, you'll be saving your marriage. No, really!

Date: 2006/11/02 03:05:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ericmurphy @ Nov. 01 2006,14:15) Stands of 4,500 year old trees didn't survive the flood as seeds, and they didn't get from Mt. Ararat to the west coast of the U.S. via FedEx. Dear eric, You are quite demonstrably wrong.  During this year's Superbowl, it was quite clearly shown via fossilized videotape that FedEx did in fact exist alongside cavemen and dinosaurs, which makes this hypothesis viable. Video Evidence of Cavemen, Dinosaurs, and FedEx

Date: 2006/11/02 03:09:19, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Nov. 02 2006,08:53) Bring Janie and Kate, Lou. Wouldn't dream of showing up without my lovely assistants deacons.

Date: 2006/11/02 03:38:06, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (improvius @ Nov. 02 2006,09:31) Ah, but the caveman states quite clearly (assuming the translation is correct) that FedEx doesn't exist yet.  Now, it is certainly possible that there was an error in translation - or that perhaps a later scene proving the existence of FedEx at roughly the same time period had been edited out.  But the current copy of the commercial does not support your YECFedEx hypothesis. Oh, FedEx did in fact exist at the time.  The use of the word is proof in itself.  That caveman was just a FedEx atheist. (a-FedEx-ist?)  Either that, or the video was shot just pre-flud, and FedEx was created just post-flud from the pidjin-kind.  I bet you didn't know that the pidjins dun had a FedEx allele, didja?

Date: 2006/11/02 10:33:57, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (ericmurphy @ Nov. 02 2006,11:20) God, Lou. I'll try to say this tactfully…you know how Dave often will post a quote that actually undermines his argument? Uh, well, this video you posted…um… Yeah.  ####, I shoulda looked at the whole thing again, I had forgotten that "doesn't exist yet" line. Funny how AFDave-like that is, though.  Exactly an AFDave move, and I stand as humiliated and ashamed as he should, but doesn't. it was still funny, though.

Date: 2006/11/02 13:45:50, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jeannot @ Nov. 02 2006,17:45) I would imagine that our low pilosity is somewhat linked to our clothes, but it doesn't seem to fit with those who don't wear any (maybe their ancestors?). Maybe being naked just has its advantages... so to speak...

Date: 2006/11/03 02:04:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 02 2006,22:49) Hey Denyse, you're new over there, so let me fill you in. You know your friend Davetard, the guy who called you a transsexual lesbian hermaphrodite, or whatever it was? That guy who referred to you as "it"? Do you mean when he called her "MorphoDyke" like here, or just when he called her a "Canadian Cross-Dresser" like  here? (In all fairness, though, it was Janie who originally hung that appellation around O'Leary's neck Right here.  Dave is just a bandwagon MorphoDyker.)

Date: 2006/11/03 04:17:07, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Nov. 03 2006,08:33) Quote Dave is just a bandwagon MorphoDyker One of my fondest ID/Evolution-related pleasures is imagining the disgust in D'Tard's soul when he reflects on all the times he pleasured himself while fantasizing various arrangements with Janie and Kate Lou FCD. Speaking for all three of us, we're always happy to spread the pleasure around.

Date: 2006/11/06 08:28:23, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 06 2006,13:15) DaveScot came to my blog to say Hi. (Actually, he called me a "potty mouth freak.") That was cute.  I was really impressed when he referred to me as "lesbians trapped in a man's body"... and meant it as an insult. Anybody who likes girls is a homo - dt

Date: 2006/11/07 09:49:04, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (k.e @ Nov. 07 2006,08:22) Quote Besides, some of you out there who share my ideas about origins certainly believe snakes once had legs! And of course they were able to speak. <snicker> ...in the Queen's English, no less!

Date: 2006/11/07 09:56:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (blipey @ Nov. 06 2006,15:27) Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 06 2006,13:15) DaveScot came to my blog to say Hi. (Actually, he called me a "potty mouth freak.") I don't feel so special anymore.  I was sure (no, really) that DaveTard only had special feelings for me. He doesn't say hi to anyone, though he does state clearly that he will not skip out on my visit to Austin.  I'm looking forward to meeting him...it will be a high (low?) light. DaveTard is just jealous that AFDaveTard is providing us with more pages of entertainment. DaveTard won't take kindly to playing second fiddle to AFDaveTard, so he's getting desperate for some of that old time attention! AFDaveTard is a homo so I need to be on top of him - dt

Date: 2006/11/08 12:04:18, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

As DaveTard's been spreadin' the love over at Kristine's place, (yapping about competence, believe it or not! the girls thought it would be fun to hold an election. Who Is "The King of Falsified Evidence"? DaveTard and his Praying Marines photo? or AFDaveTard and his Red Dot graph? (We're holding it over at our place since we'd rather not find ourselves back in the doghouse.)

Date: 2006/11/08 14:56:05, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Nov. 08 2006,14:04) Lou, I was just reading through old posts on UDoJ, and I came across this gem where DaveScotDell needs help uploading his avatar. <snip 'til below> On another note, it is quite weird to read the stuff we wrote under the assumption that you were a 17 year old female. Too funny. Yeah, BR, I was just visiting Page 149 of the UD thread here, myself.  Ahhhh... those trips down memory lane. Some really good stuff there and here.     Quote (bourgeois_rage @ Nov. 08 2006,14:04) Humorously, he's still using that avatar to this day. In a way he still is carrying around a mark of his idiocy. Despite it's color, I think we should call it "The Scarlet Headgear". One of my favorite moments at UD.

Date: 2006/11/08 16:18:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jeannot @ Nov. 05 2006,23:59) What does JAD's PEH have to say about it? God dun it. Then he died.

Date: 2006/11/08 16:36:49, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (steve_h @ Nov. 08 2006,16:32) Soccer (which we call "cricket" in England) seems to crop up quite often. God must be a fan. I'd love to see a soccer match played with cricket bats... Like Hockey, but with more blood. Cool.

Date: 2006/11/08 21:25:53, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Nov. 08 2006,18:02) It's called Hurling, and is played mainly in Ireland. Not to be confused with 'hurling' (small h), another Irish pastime practiced at 2 A.M. outside most pubs.   I need to see more of that on ESPN! uh... both varieties, if possible.

Date: 2006/11/09 08:36:53, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

This is kinda cool. The short version in Science The Abstract from PNAS. The PDF of the paper (also from PNAS). The long and the short of it seems to be that the gene microcephalin, which is thought to be involved in regulating brain growth, popped up like a million years ago, but only showed up in modern humans about the same time that Neandertals died out. From what I can gather, the gene does something to give us a bigger brain (apparently I'm not one of the 70% of the population that got it). So it ain't proof positive that Homo neanderthalis and our direct ancestors were gettin' freaky, but the motel bed is smokin' and there are only two naked people in the room, "if you know what I mean and I think you do!"

Date: 2006/11/09 11:10:28, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

k.e., old chap, I believe you may need Restoration See me after class in the massage room....

Date: 2006/11/09 12:05:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

k.e, Any time, glad I could help! Crap, Rich.   For a minute there, I thought I kinda looked smart.

Date: 2006/11/10 10:57:07, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Just want to add The LiveScience story to DQ's post. Peace.

Date: 2006/11/10 11:08:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

In his PJs

Date: 2006/11/10 11:12:07, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Possibly This Guy

Date: 2006/11/13 12:15:37, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Nov. 13 2006,12:06)   Quote I would imagine trying to reason with retards has limits. Apparently you're not familiar with the AFDave thread. Classic! That is truly some funny shiite. I actually popped in to share some Good News on the fundy idiot front Jesus Camp Bites the Dust, (I was gonna stick it in the UDoJ thread) and thought I'd see what was going on in this thread first. Glad I did. Thanks for that, OT.

Date: 2006/11/13 16:57:08, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 13 2006,15:43) It's just weird to me, this claim they love making that they're all psychopaths, restrained from raping (snip)... me only by the written commands of a very powerful overseer. Well, you can hardly blame them, Steve.  You come across as so damned sexy you're hard to resist.

Date: 2006/11/14 08:28:56, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Janie and Kate six and nine it, respectively.

Date: 2006/11/16 07:18:47, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Zachriel @ Nov. 16 2006,06:42)     Quote (Dembski @ sometime in the recent past) If the evidence for Darwinian theory were so great, why keep slamming ID? Just present it! Well, he could start with the blurb, Here, or the .pdf of the whole news article Here,  or move right on to the .pdf of the full paper, Here. (New Science paper on Neandertal genome sequencing, and it's similarity to the modern human genome, and the divergence of the two.) If I were a biologist mathematician who thought he had a revolutionary new insight into biology, I'd probably do some research to investigate. Now, granted, I'm just the unedumakaded son of a carpenter, but if I wanted to know about biology, I'd go ask a biologist, or at least go read his freely-available-to-anyone-who-cares-to-read-it research paper.  Seems pretty straightforward. Just sayin'.

Date: 2006/11/16 08:02:54, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Deadman: I posted these in the UD thread a little earlier, but here are the related links for the paper in Science... Here is the quick blurb Here is a .pdf of the full news article. Here is the .pdf of the full paper. Not that AFDave will ever bother, but you might be interested. On a related note, an election update: With eleven precincts reporting, AFDave leads DaveScot by a 9-2 margin in the race for King of Falsified Evidence.

Date: 2006/11/16 10:57:40, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (afdave @ Nov. 16 2006,10:46) ToE advocates discount the historical record of the Bible and call it a myth.  Thus, they have only their wild imaginations as starting points for their Origins Models. Well, that and biology.  And physics.  And chemistry.  And writings of other civilizations through the flood period.  And genetics.  And geology.  Y'know.  Science.     Quote (afdave @ Nov. 16 2006,10:46) Creationists have a high regard for this historical record of the Bible and use the various accounts as starting points for their Origins Models. This explains a lot. Indeed it does.

Date: 2006/11/16 12:40:00, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 16 2006,12:17) May I ask this: am I the only woman posting at AtBC? Just wondering. Nah, Shirley "No hugs for thugs" Knott pops in from time to time for one.

Date: 2006/11/16 18:51:51, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Kristine, You should acquaint yourself with the Big Green Marker. Hours of fun.

Date: 2006/11/16 18:56:42, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Nov. 16 2006,15:53) It's almost like he's been duped recently, like he was flirting with a 'girl' and it turned out to be a ruse. Now he feels guilt / anger at freeing his 'little republican swimmers' to the cooings of Lou FCD. Are you trying to say he might be a little "gun"-shy?

Date: 2006/11/17 15:36:43, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Richardthughes @ Nov. 09 2006,12:19) (Not Kate though, she scares me) ####, Rich, she scares ME!

Date: 2006/11/18 07:38:40, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Anyone know if the clip of Bill Buckingham is online?  I'd like to borrow the clip of him saying that he wants an alternative to Darwin, such as creationism, taught. I can't seem to locate it anywhere.  I've tried YouTube and Google Video, and I've looked for links to it here, at the Thumb, NCSE, ACLU, PA Citizens for Science blog, everywhere I know to look, and I'm out of ideas. Janie has a little project going.  She's soooooo creative.

Date: 2006/11/18 08:09:52, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ok, found it.  Nevermind. Here's the link, in case anyone else is interested.... http://w2.ydr.com/nmf/db-ref/files-db/528.wmv Thanks to the York Daily Record (I don't know why I didn't just start there in the first place.) Buckingham Seesaws on the Stand

Date: 2006/11/18 14:11:08, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

So is Janie's video. Priceless I'm sure she'd appreciate any feedback....

Date: 2006/11/18 17:05:25, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

And here I always assumed a petard was another word for pecker... I like my version better.

Date: 2006/11/19 07:05:55, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Hi Wes. Not sure why it didn't come up, but no.  It's been tweaked a little now and it's called "Priceless, the Director's Cut". Here's the direct link to the YouTube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7p9ApNAnME The UDoJ link again... http://udoj.blogspot.com/2006/11/priceless.html And the link for Channel UDoJ on YouTube, where all Janie's videos can be found... http://www.youtube.com/udoj One of those is bound to work, unless YouTube is having a problem (which it sometimes does).

Date: 2006/11/19 07:31:59, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

I guess this really should have been posted here, so I'm copying it from the Bill Buckingham Video thread... Janie's Dover Video.   Quote It's been tweaked a little now and it's called "Priceless, the Director's Cut". Here's the direct link to the YouTube video... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7p9ApNAnME The UDoJ link again... http://udoj.blogspot.com/2006/11/priceless.html And the link for Channel UDoJ on YouTube, where all Janie's videos can be found... http://www.youtube.com/udoj One of those is bound to work, unless YouTube is having a problem (which it sometimes does). She um... borrowed... some of the photos from the Thumb.  Somehow, I think they'll be ok with that. I hope.

Date: 2006/11/19 08:07:57, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Wow, is the new server up and running now? ... because this place (and PT, too) is F'ing ROCKIN'. It hasn't even thought about balking this morning. ('Course it's Sunday morning, but still it's quick, slick, and something else that should rhyme with quick, but I can't think of nuthin.) Anyways, I know y'all probably always hear the bad stuff, I thought you should hear an "Attaboy".

Date: 2006/11/19 14:26:06, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Zachriel @ Nov. 19 2006,07:01) platolives   Quote Any professor with intellectual integrity would , I think, grab the bull by both horns yet many clearly do not understand that one need not multiply it into something caused by a deity. The Ockhamistic informationists (vs, the anti-informationists), can live with the notion that life is brought about by an unidentifiable, supersensible intelligence. That's right. It's not a deity. It's an unidentifiable, supersensible intelligence. (Notice that the commenter chose the phrase "unidentifiable" rather than "as yet unidentified", even though he has already assigned this agent characteristics, that of being a "supersensible intelligence".) Crap AGAIN! I was still working with "Disembodied Telic Entity"! Who the heck is in charge of getting out the MEMOS?

Date: 2006/11/19 14:29:45, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (VMartin @ Nov. 19 2006,13:37) I do not see what is this thread is about - I see no arguments only "jokes" missing any meaning. This thread is about DAJ, so that's rather appropriate, doncha think?

Date: 2006/11/19 14:34:16, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Russell @ Nov. 19 2006,08:13) I'll start to be concerned when I see the first YEC paper appear in a serious journal. What? Jack Chick ain't serious enough for ya? ? ? YEC will never submit to your pathetic level of peer review.

Date: 2006/11/19 17:46:10, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Wait.  This from Dave?  Hold on.  Lemme think... Oh yeah, here it is.... Dave on racism at UDoJ Quote I called the authors of the bible "lice ridden beduins" on Uncommon Descent. It really set Josh off. And it's true. I thought everyone knew that Arabs do their camels. It's not racist. It's a simple fact. But hey, if you don't want disparaging remarks about terrorists that want to kill everyone in the U.S. and/or make us all stick our ass up in the air opposite Mecca to worship Allah then I guess that's your call. Is that what you're saying? Very next comment... Quote ou should read this whilst keeping mind that Jordanians are Arabs. I'm not making this up. Arab men are pigs, dear. Misogynous pigs at that. At the least you should know who you're defending and ask if they deserve it. Arab isn't a race, by the way, it's a culture and a part of the world centered on the Middle East, so it's really not possible to be racist against Arabs. That would be like being racist against Canadian morphodykes - non sequitur. [URL=http://www.etan.org/et2005/march/20/26hushed.htm Davey?  Are we being a bit umm.... dishonest?  hypocritical?  or just stupid and inconsistant?

Date: 2006/11/19 18:11:44, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Thanks, Zachriel.  I forgot that the H word was in that link, which of course gets edited out by the AtBC software. doh.

Date: 2006/11/19 19:18:33, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Ahhh yes.  DaveTard. Paragon of Parity. Epitome of Equality. Father of Fairness. All around nice guy.

Date: 2006/11/19 19:21:30, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (jeannot @ Nov. 19 2006,16:01) "God 'dun it, then he died." "Thanks. 'Got that, and wrote that down.   It's hard to believe, isn't it?"

Date: 2006/11/20 08:54:36, Link 65.184.250.194

Author: Lou FCD

Quote (Altabin @ Nov. 20 2006,08:37)       Quote (Lou FCD @ Nov. 08 2006,21:56) One of my favorite moments at UD. Fercrissake, you flirted with Sal Cordova.  Even just for pretend.  I think I have to lie down for a moment. Well someone always has to do the dirty work y'know.  Tara sticks her arms up cow butts, I Fxxk with the fundies.  It's a gift.     Quote (Altabin @ Nov. 20 2006,08:37) But honestly, UncommonDescent gets visited by a bubbly 17-year-old lesbian (um, undecided) young woman who happens to have no sexual preference thankyouverymuch, sprinkling her trenchant criticism of ID with stories about holding hands with her (female) cheerleading coach.  WHY did it take so long for us to figure it out!!?? I fixed that for ya.  Janie gets a little upset if she feels like she's being defined by one aspect of herself.     Quote (Altabin @ Nov. 20 2006,08:37) By the way, it seems that someone has been trying to janiebelle Pharyngula.  My money's on DT, out for revenge (oops, can he sue me for that?) He's a poser.  You're probably right.  Looks to me like DaveTard. You may have coined a new term, though.... I like it.