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Date: 2014/01/31 07:18:09, Link
Author: Lethean
Hello AtBC'ers,

I thought I'd delurk to offer a collated PDF of BINP.

There's no cover page available so I added in the "springerforgot_2013_screenshot.pdf" sparc linked to from EN followed by the "general introduction" from the "about this book" tab on the Springer page. Sadly, my other machine that has Acrobat on it has some booting issues at the moment so I couldn't create chapter tabs.

The archive also contains a copy of the "Synopsis and Limited Commentary" by Sanford. To download the archive go to this page, then scroll down and select your host.

P.S. - I don't claim to have much of a scientific background but I did read chapter one "Biological Information - What is It?" and found Figure 1 pretty amusing. It's a bit Freudian IMHO. Cheers!

Date: 2014/03/05 05:13:11, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (KevinB @ Mar. 04 2014,12:40)
I see that our friend Cornelius has posted over at UD under the title "Heres Darwins Solution for Convergent Evolution: Like Two Inventors Independently Hit on the Very Same Invention

Is he going to reference his marsupial wolf picture as supporting evidence?

I prefer to have my tard filtered by the brave souls who are certainly better equipped to snip and rebut, so I won't be offering UD my clickys. (and thank you for that) Would it be too outlandish to guess that Hunter is denigrating that idea and using it to prop up the designer is reusing His designs aka common design hypothesis?

In any case, I'm reminded of an excellent article I read a few years ago by Malcolm Gladwell concerning, among other things related to invention and discovery, the topic of independent discovery. In it he pulled together information from a number of historians of science and it's a really great read and for what it's worth I highly recommend it. Here's a snippet ~

They found a hundred and forty-eight major scientific discoveries that fit the multiple pattern. Newton and Leibniz both discovered calculus. Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace both discovered evolution. Three mathematicians invented decimal fractions. Oxygen was discovered by Joseph Priestley, in Wiltshire, in 1774, and by Carl Wilhelm Scheele, in Uppsala, a year earlier. Color photography was invented at the same time by Charles Cros and by Louis Ducos du Hauron, in France. Logarithms were invented by John Napier and Henry Briggs in Britain, and by Joost Brgi in Switzerland. There were four independent discoveries of sunspots, all in 1611; namely, by Galileo in Italy, Scheiner in Germany, Fabricius in Holland and Harriott in England, Ogburn and Thomas note, and they continue:

The law of the conservation of energy, so significant in science and philosophy, was formulated four times independently in 1847, by Joule, Thomson, Colding and Helmholz. They had been anticipated by Robert Mayer in 1842. There seem to have been at least six different inventors of the thermometer and no less than nine claimants of the invention of the telescope. Typewriting machines were invented simultaneously in England and in America by several individuals in these countries. The steamboat is claimed as the exclusive discovery of Fulton, Jouffroy, Rumsey, Stevens and Symmington.

Full Article

Wikipedia has an article as well, Multiple discovery. I like the section on "Civility," it being a hobby horse term over at UD.

In another classic case of multiple discovery, the two discoverers showed more civility. By June 1858 Charles Darwin had completed over two-thirds of his On the Origin of Species when he received a startling letter from a naturalist, Alfred Russel Wallace, 13 years his junior, with whom he had corresponded. The letter summarized Wallace's theory of natural selection, with conclusions identical to Darwin's own. Darwin turned for advice to his friend Charles Lyell, the foremost geologist of the day. Lyell proposed that Darwin and Wallace prepare a joint communication to the scientific community. Darwin being preoccupied with his mortally ill youngest son, Lyell enlisted Darwin's closest friend, Joseph Hooker, director of Kew Gardens, and together on 1 July 1858 they presented to the Linnean Society a joint paper that brought together Wallace's abstract with extracts from Darwin's earlier, 1844 essay on the subject. The paper was also published that year in the Society's journal. Neither the public reading of the joint paper nor its publication attracted the least interest; but Wallace, "admirably free from envy or jealousy," had been content to remain in Darwin's shadow.

There was some news very recently of two researchers independently coming up with essentially the same test for some disease. Sadly I can't for the life of me recall what it was though.

Of course I'm probably missing Hunter's point anyway. I assume Hunter isn't denying that doesn't happen and will go on how that doesn't square with "blind undirected processes" yadda yadda. This was more about sharing that article by Gladwell I thought the regulars here would find interesting.

Date: 2014/03/05 05:32:15, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (BillB @ Mar. 03 2014,01:26)
One of the major problems I have with atheistical arguments is their habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures, backed up by selective hyperskepticism rather than addressing comparative difficulties. Not to mention turnabout accusations and personalities, thuggishness and enabling behaviour.

That isn't the sound of clapping KF, it is the sound of irony meters popping.

"habitual reliance on misrepresentations and caricatures"

This one always gets me. It reminds me of "Socrates" over at TR who constantly makes the same claim. Whenever someone poses a question or makes a statement that illustrates how what they have asserted is false by extending that persons thought/idea/assertion further in order to demonstrate that it's incorrect, their defense is to frequently claim that they are being misrepresented.

They never seem to look for where they are wrong, rather they are searching for ways to entrench their doubt concerning the ideas they disagree with. It makes me sad sometimes.  :(

Date: 2014/03/05 06:01:22, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 03 2014,01:54)
The joke of course is that Joe IS welcome. He couldn't make a better case for the batshit lunacy of ID and immoral behavior of a few fundies.


For all the times I've seen references (KF I believe?) claiming that how people behave on other areas of the internet are grounds for a banning it speaks volumes to the depth of hypocrisy and nuttiness at UD.

Joe needs more free reign over there if you ask me.

Date: 2014/03/13 03:25:11, Link
Author: Lethean
It won't do anything about his posturing but I'm thinking about launching a kickstarter to purchase a ticket to the island so I can steal KF's thesaurus.

I admit I compose my own train wrecks but that man is incredibly painful to read.

Date: 2014/04/07 02:02:36, Link
Author: Lethean
JoeG, wandering ambassador of Uncommon Decent, drops by the NCSE blog to do some outreach on behalf of ID.

"ignorant of science and apparently proud of it." "Because he is ignorant"
"I dare you" "you are just fully ignorant." "Get an education"
What a jerk." "You are proud to be ignorant." "Either support your claim or shut up"
"Your ignorance is astounding." "You are just an ignorant coward." "You are a liar."
"you are lying" "You are so deluded that you have to lie. You are a pathtic little dick."
"That might be the most ignorant and cowardly response of all time" "And that is my blog, moron"
"And why are you such an ignorant coward who doesn't understand science?" "You're a joke."
"LoL! I am not a christian. But you are an ignorant ass" "YOU are a pathetic little person."
"Seeing that you are a deluded liar"

Joe, now that you are an ID rockstar I hope you don't go and forget all the little people that helped make it happen.

Date: 2014/04/15 06:04:19, Link
Author: Lethean
#996: Joan Ocean

Joan Ocean comes across as a really nice but stunningly crazy lady who, according to her bio, has a degree in Counseling Psychology and is internationally known for her work in the field of human-dolphin and whale communication.


At present she experiences the gentle communication of the dolphins and whales as sound holography [yeah, you think youll get a further explanation? Good luck with that], a language that intensifies physical senses, bypasses rational-cognitive paradigms [indeed], resonates directly with our cellular intelligence, and awakens multiple levels of perception and consciousness.


Ocean has determined that the cetaceans are able to encode frequencies to resonate with our personal patterns as we swim among them in the ocean, and the information they convey is apparently therefore translatable by us, because they are using our own neurological fibers, non-verbal, non-cognitive, emotional programs as the medium for communication. But we should let Ocean explain: It is through our feelings and intuition that we are able to access this transmission. The cetaceans are advanced in the science of esoteric, multi-dimensional intelligences which include both the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations, desires and universal blueprint/patterns/sigils of others and the capacity to understand themselves in the same way.

I thought Gary might find Ocean's ideas notable enough to incorporate into his theory. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the bolded bits, especially the "resonates directly with our cellular intelligence" part. Perhaps Gary could shed some light on this.

Date: 2014/06/27 07:22:56, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (REC @ June 26 2014,21:11)
Guess since Sal's Creation-Evolution University has failed, he's back on UD.

His version of scholarship:

A quick google shows hardly any attempt at an evolutionary explanation [of transposons]

Maybe a more thorough search? Like the 5th result, which deals with the origins and evolution of transposons. Or try PubMed? Shit, did you not have to write a thesis or something for your Masters degree?  

I posed the following question on reddit/r/creation:

Even better. Reddit. Porn, kittens and memes.

Needless to say, I didn’t get any pro-evolutionary explanations for the origin of transposases.

this subreddit is private

the moderators of this subreddit have set it to private. you must be a moderator or approved submitter to view its contents.

I wonder why Sal. For fucks sake, you and KF and his crickets are peas in an idiotic-echo-chamber-loving pod. Unlike him, I don't think you lack the intellegence to actually do a literature search. Just the honesty to report what you find.

Let alone the honesty to search for an answer as if he actually wanted one.

As you point out, Sal's "quick google" rather than an intellectually honest search of the literature, he then opts for asking the private circlejerk of r/creation rather than asking r/science.

r/science is a default subreddit which means the top threads are shown on the homepage to everyone who visits registered or not with nearly 3 million actively subscribed and likely two to three times as many "lurkers" to that specific subreddit in a given month. Hell, without bothering to ask and doing a simple search of r/science gives this result from two years ago from redditor mattc286.

How did transposons first come about?

Edit: I should note that transposons are not my specific field of study, but I have a working knowledge of them (I've read papers, attended lectures, and had conversations with people who do work on them).

That's a great question which is the subject of ongoing research. As you've noted, transposons behave similarly to some viruses in many ways. For those who are unfamiliar with transposons, they are transposable elements present in the DNA of many organisms (possibly all), which means they are sections of DNA that are removed by enzymes called "transposases" a locus in a chromosome and insert them somewhere else in the genome of the same cell. This can be in the same chromosome or another chromosome. How they choose their new insertion site is sequence-based for some transposons, and seemingly random for others (though probably at least partially dependent on local chromosomal architecture determined by histone location and post-translational modification and DNA methylation, termed "epigenetic mechanisms"). Some transposons encode for proteins, and some of those encode for their own transposases, and some don't. These transposons have been an invaluable tool for researchers in a lot of fields in biology, including evolution and cancer research. For instance, this guy and his collaborators have developed a forward genetic screen in mice based on a transposon called "Sleeping Beauty" to discover new oncogenes, tumor suppressors, and cancer-modulatory genes.

Like many viruses, transposons can be divided into groups based on their replication mechanism: those that involve an RNA intermediate (retrotransposons and retroviruses) and those that don't (DNA transposons and DNA viruses). Given that a transposon can encode its own transposase (essentially becoming self-replicating), and that they can be engineered to participate in horizontal gene transfer, it's not a far stretch of the imagination that viruses and transposons (and bacterial plasmids) may be evolutionarily linked. The only thing they lack is the ability to leave the cell and infect another cell/organism (horizontal gene transfer). In fact, this is the leading understanding at this time.

The question then becomes: Did viruses arise from transposons-gone-awry or are transposons stripped-down viruses that became integrated into their hosts to such a degree, they gave up on trying to "infect" other cells. The answer is most likely both. Divergence in evolution is always a messy process, and we can find evidence of some transposons that were spread by horizontal gene transfer (aka, they were "viruses"), but the fact that some transposases are encoded in the genome outside of transposons indicates that the virus either left the transposon somewhere else, or that the transposon evolved independently in that species. It's hard to know which came first, the transposon or the virus, because transposons have been around for a long time and are under tremendous selective pressure. Whatever species originally developed the first transposon/virus lived billions of years ago near the beginning of life on Earth, so we can't study it directly. The best we can do is compare DNA sequences and genetic markers in extant transposons and viruses to try to figure out where they came from.

tl;dr: Some transposons and plasmids probably evolved into viruses, and some viruses probably inserted into hosts and turned back into transposons, but we can't rule out that some transposons have evolved independently in different species.

I'm stating the obvious of course but Sal doesn't want an answer. He doesn't go honestly looking for an answer so he can feel as though technically he's not lying when he claims "darwinists" have no explanation (therefore Yahweh).

I'm not claiming that the post I quoted above from mattc286 is accurate or even answers Sal's question to his satisfaction. I just felt I should share what took me 30 seconds to find by simply following Sal's lead. If I were Sal, and had a lick of intellectual honesty, I would have went digging in the primary literature.

The moniker of "slimy" has been earned. What a sad sad pretender.

Date: 2014/06/27 09:04:03, Link
Author: Lethean
Apologies but I need to make a correction.

That result I quoted actually came from r/askscience which, like r/science, is also a default. It has the numbers of subscribers I stated, which I find interesting because that means there are nearly 3 million subscribers covering a range of disciplines that are there to potentially answer a question posed.

r/science is for the posting of information relating to new research only (last six months), doesn't allow self-posts like general questions, and has 5.7 millions subs.

Imagine that Sal, you could have asked nearly 3 million people assuming you can form the question in an interesting and straightforward enough manner for someone to be interested enough to engage with you. I'd be amazed if r/creation had more than a few thousand subs (r/christianity itself only has some 83,000 subs) and probably floored if anyone there knew what the hell transposons were let alone the "pro-evolutionary explanation." What was your explanation again? How did it happen? When did it happen?

Date: 2014/07/24 03:29:14, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ July 23 2014,23:19)
According to electrician B.Wells' relativity theory: photons evolved from random electrical change being acted upon by natural wallswitch selection, which turns the bulb on or off.

Can you blow me where the Pampers is ?

Date: 2014/08/01 13:00:53, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Driver @ July 26 2014,08:19)
Quote (Henry J @ July 26 2014,02:45)
Nonsense. There's no watermelon out there.

You have no evidence for your position.

Meh. Evidence, shmevidence.

Even if there are watermelons out there they are frozen. Which means they contain no water. Which makes them icemelons.

What does a tick want with an icemelon ?

Date: 2014/08/05 19:34:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Aug. 05 2014,12:22)
Over at UD JoeTard refutes evolution yet again.

Joe August 5, 2014 at 9:47 am

Was the alleged common ancestor of chimps and humans more like chimps and apes or more like humans? All of the examples of descent have organisms producing the exact same type of organism as the parents. Human babies are slightly different from their parents but they are still human and nothing suggests they will be anything else other than humans.

There aren’t any known evolutionary events that can be used to extrapolate universal common descent. No known mechanism can produce the changes required. That means the extension of processes hypothesis is refuted.

174th time this year by my count.   :D


Date: 2014/08/05 20:06:16, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Aug. 05 2014,08:07)
N.Wells, what you quoted is not even in the theory I gave you to study.

Double Dodge

Date: 2014/08/07 19:42:52, Link
Author: Lethean
Tailored for the Information Ticknologist.

Date: 2014/08/31 17:29:40, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 30 2014,09:12)
According to a source who has given no evidence of this...

Behe is teaching at least 3 courses with 2 biochem courses at the graduate level for a total of 9 credits. He's also giving the only graduate level seminar required for all biological sciences graduate students called Responsible Conduct of Science.

My emphasis.

I poked around on LeHeigh's website but I couldn't find any listing of courses that included the name of the faculty responsible for them. (strangely, trying to directly visit the "faculty" page kicked me to the "graduate studies" page and a couple of other links just dead end, clunky b.s. site) Even the faculties individual webpages don't give a summary of what courses they teach.

According to the Graduate Program Guidelines under the COURSE WORK and GRADING POLICIES:

In addition to the following Biochemistry, Integrative Biology and Neuroscience and Cell and Molecular Biology program required courses - All students will enroll and attend:

   BioS 408 (0 credits) Responsible Conduct of Science within their first year of graduate study
   BioS 406 (1 credit) Biological Sciences Seminar at least twice in the first four semesters and
   All Departmental Seminars

I searched through the 2013-2014 course catalog (pdf), which only provides a list of the faculty at the head of the Biological Sciences section, and found basically the same information under Graduate Study in the Biological Sciences (p.85).

Core requirements for each division are listed below. The graduate school requires students to register for at least 72-post baccalaureate credits to earn the Ph.D. In addition, all students must take BIOS 408 (0 credits) Responsible Conduct of Science within their first year of graduate study. All students must also attend departmental seminars and enroll in BIOS 406 (1 credit) Biological Sciences Seminar at least twice in the first four semesters. A minimum of 24 course credits may be chosen from upper level courses in biochemistry, molecular biology, cell biology, behavioral biology and evolutionary biology, and neuroscience. At least 12 of these credits must be at the 400 level.

Responsible Conduct of Science is described as (p.90)

BIOS 408 Responsible Conduct of Science 0 Credits

Responsible practice in research. Training in general laboratory methods; human subjects concerns; radiation safety; chemical hazards; aseptic technique; physical, mechanical, biological, and fire hazards; animal welfare. Occupational and workplace considerations. Recombinant DNA guidelines; patent and proprietary rights; controversies over applications of science. Appropriate aspects required of investigators in all departmental research projects.

Sorry, I realize this doesn't help very much but it's at least clear that the course doesn't engage in discussing ethics in a way, it appears to me, that Tugs bragging on behalf of Behe would like to imply.

Hang on, I just found the Fall & Summer 2014 Class Schedule (pdf) (p.10-13)


40620 BIOS 202 010 BIOMEDICAL EXTERNSHIP 1 - 3 T 0700-1000 Behe M Department

46138 BIOS 371 011 ELEMENTS OF BIOCHEMISTRY I 3 TR 0900-1015 Behe M
This section for graduate students only.

46143 CHM 371 011 ELEMENTS OF BIOCHEMISTRY I 3 TR 0900-1015 Behe M
This section for graduate students only.


BIOS 202 is ...

BIOS 202 Biomedical Externship 1-3 Credits

Analysis of individualized experiences at external biomedical clinical or research sites. Limited enrollment. May not be taken for passfail grading. May not be used to satisfy any life science major or minor requirement. Consent of department chair required.

... and it looks like he's teaching one graduate required course in one class with two separate course numbers depending on which major you're in.

Unrelated and unsurprisingly, doing a search in the "people directory" reveals a whole gaggle of Behes

Michael Behe Faculty - Biological Sciences Hall
Celeste Behe Affiliate
Vincent Behe Undergraduate Student - AS/History
Leo    Behe Undergraduate Student - AS/Computer Science (AS)
Grace Behe Affiliate
Clare Behe Faculty/Staff - Mathematics

Date: 2014/09/09 01:52:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 06 2014,09:12)
One of the most important things my science education did, was force me to confront being 100% dead wrong about something. It's crucial to learn to deal with being wrong and adapt. A lot of people never learn that skill.

Date: 2014/09/16 17:33:28, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (The whole truth @ Sep. 12 2014,18:04)
Hey joey, you're obviously totally against the concept of unguided, undirected, unintelligent, mindless, purposeless, material (natural) evolutionary processes. That means, of course, that even if you accept that evolution occurs*, you are totally in favor of the concept of guided, directed, intelligent, mindful, purposeful, immaterial (supernatural) evolutionary processes.

Track List
So Ronery (Intro)
Gee A's Schmee A's
I Did That Somewhere Else
No, U
It Ain't Heavy It's My E.colon
+1 Is OK With -1, IDiot [Null the Null]
Ignorant of What I Make Up
Shake Your Equivicator
So Ronery (Reprise)

Bonus Track
Some Features 'R Best Explained feat. Sir GaGa

Who, What, Where, When (LLC) ©2014

Date: 2014/09/17 03:25:10, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 16 2014,20:30)

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, but like the other nominations, I feel I should decline to accept. Having had three within two weeks or so, I'd hate to feel over-lauded early in my contributions. I offer two solid facts I've used in my reasoning.

A) While I was attaching "J'oh!" to a very insightful comment, I felt as though I was guilding the lily with a honking clown nose as it were. Lily it was. I offer my own potw vote to steve.

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 06 2014,09:12)
One of the most important things my science education did, was force me to confront being 100% dead wrong about something. It's crucial to learn to deal with being wrong and adapt. A lot of people never learn that skill.

(stick that in your "obvious truism" pipe and suck it hard Barry)

B) I believe it's objectively true that most of what I am likely to post will never meet the standard of humor that was shown in that two-or-three panel "fictional book" series starring Dr. Dr. Bill and News. (poty, whoever you were you magnificent bastard) Those panels linger on, preserved on a disk of mine somewhere. (which thread was that?)

I am more than happy with the confirmed potw I have already received and ask that you hold me to a high standard as you get used to my occasionally-on-target antics. (that Cartman shit is funny tho right? heh)

Date: 2014/10/04 02:29:43, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Sep. 26 2014,14:45)
I just Googled "Blasphemy" and the top hit was:

MTV News - Katy Perry Explains Her Lady Gaga ‘Blasphemy’ Tweet
“You know, when Madonna was on a cross, and sometimes my boyfriend will say things that are a little bit ‘eh’ for me, from where I come from,” she said of her upbringing with her parents, who are both pastors. .....

Perry said that regardless of her opinions on using religion in pop culture, she still loves Gaga. .....

Excellent synchronicity!


You couldn't identify an "intelligent cause" if it struck you upside the head. Google gave you a shitty 4 year old "MTV news" story about Katy "Devil Child" Perry* + blasphemy as a tailored top search result because you spend quite a bit of your time browsing and playing music videos. When you aren't posting links to them here for nobody to click on that is. FFS.

* Devil Child is how her own father has described her in more than a sermon or two at his tongue babbling ministry.

Date: 2014/10/20 01:33:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Joe G @ Oct. 19 2014,13:43)

Why is it that all you cowards can do is make bald assertions and false accusations? Why is it that you have trouble actually making a case?

Meanwhile, back at Sandwalk ...

Joe G  Friday, September 05, 2014 7:34:00 AM

Larry- why do you lie about IDists? Does it make you feel like a big boy to lie about your opponents?

Larry responds ...

Laurence A. Moran Friday, September 05, 2014 10:21:00 AM

Unlike you, I'm a big fan of honesty.

If you can prove that I've lied about IDiots then I'm happy to apologize.

J'oh! mysteriously disappears without taking Larry up on his offer. It's been about six weeks now.

Any chance he's is going to head back on over and support that bald assertion or retract that false accusation?

In case J'oh! lost his way back to Sandwalk, here's a link to help save him some time in defending his ... uh ... honor.

Date: 2014/11/10 00:10:43, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Nov. 08 2014,19:28)
Mapou made this appeal in defence if Joe:
Why is Joe banned and not me? I am just as outspokenly hostile to Darwinists as Joe is and I don’t usually mince my words.

I hereby protest Joe’s banishment.

I think that Barry should grant Louis' request.

Reminds me of that scene in Ice Age. The ice bridge over the lava is melting and falling apart. The sloth, after seeing the sabertooth jump to safety, says "I wish I could jump like that." and mammoth says "Wish granted!" and sends him flying with a stiff punt in the ass.

Date: 2014/11/22 21:54:02, Link
Author: Lethean
I think if Gary were truly serious about getting his theory discussed and accepted he would be posting original articles somewhere they are demonstrably open to the ID concept. Like UD for instance. Surely it would help him enjoy greater acceptance of his work and the people commenting on a site like that can and would gladly help Gary further refine his science and get the word out.

Gary, you should really consider requesting posting privileges over at UD. All you really need is a couple of articles to get the ball rolling and it's all downhill from there. And let's face it, looking back at who they've given posting privileges too in the past you're a shoo-in.

Who should Gary speak to ? Would Barry be the one and only or can KF grant those privileges ? Asking KF is the way to go IMHO as he's the "mathy" one of the two and is more likely to be able to appreciate the finer details of Gary's work. It seems like he's wasting his time here and could be doing a lot more to get his work into the spotlight and UD definitely appears to be the "ID hotspot" as it were.

I say go for it Gary and don't listen to these guys here if they say otherwise. You and I both know they are politically motivated to keep you right here wasting your time, pretending your work has no value, and dragging you nearer to death day after day after day. Break loose and march forth into history young man!

Date: 2014/12/01 18:23:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 29 2014,01:35)
Now that the beginning of the end has finally begun it is perhaps best that this forum is left to wither in disgrace:

Gary, you've no idea how deeply sad it makes me that you are leaving. But I do understand that you really have no choice if you are to step up and take your rightful place in science history. Tales of your exploits will be told for hours to come. So long Gary.

Date: 2014/12/13 00:32:51, Link
Author: Lethean
Robert Byers

One doesn't need a other explanation before one demonstrates the failure of the existing hypothesis/theory.

Date: 2014/12/13 13:50:32, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 13 2014,12:56)
Quote (Lethean @ Dec. 13 2014,01:32)
Robert Byers

One doesn't need a other explanation before one demonstrates the failure of the existing hypothesis/theory.

that single sentence is true. we didn't need special relativity to show that there were cases where newton's laws were failing.

But we never throw away a useful theory just because it's imperfect. And 110 years after Special Relativity, we're still teaching Newton's Laws.

The analogy is junk, though, because Michaelson and Morley accomplished something, which the IDiots haven't done in the slightest.

I follow you and agree whole-heartedly. The reason I saved that quote (-mine if you will) over a year ago was because not only is it one of the most grammatically correct sentences I've ever seen Robert produce, in isolation it's one of the most correct statements I've ever heard him utter.

The reason I posted it was to show that even if Robert is abusing the concept to his own ends, even he seems to get what Gary does not after having it explained to him for the umpteenth time in the comments above.

Date: 2014/12/13 14:05:58, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 13 2014,13:44)
See the problem? Explosions aren’t just very fast, they are usually destructive. Yes, they can be constructive, but only if controlled for a constructive purpose like blasting a subway tunnel (intelligent design).

Finally, an explanation for chicken McNuggets.


*dips finger in holy water and makes the sign of the arches*

Date: 2014/12/14 16:47:15, Link
Author: Lethean
Good grief.

I come back and Gary's popped his cork, trying to take names and kick ass.

Get 'em Gary !

Date: 2014/12/14 17:02:54, Link
Author: Lethean
On second thought I take that back.

Calm down Gary.

Date: 2014/12/28 15:58:06, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 27 2014,11:01)
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 24 2014,14:05)
mapou delivers the most UD comment perhaps of all time:

Mathematicians can kiss my asteroid because they have a lame pony in this race. They’re already on the record for claiming that infinity exists and they will look bad if the opposite is shown to be true. Mathematicians are political/religious animals just like Darwinists, therefore they are not to be trusted.

My peers are the public. If a concept cannot be explained in simple terms that the average intelligent layperson can understand, it’s crap, IMO.


I wonder if they have asked Dr. Dr. Dembski (isn't one of his degrees in math?) about any of this.

Seems funny that they are arguing against an entire class of scholar... the group of which seems to provide an above average number of the ID proponents.

We live in amazing times.

The contributors at UD have not only single-handedly smashed the pillar of biology down to its very foundation, they've moved on and stuck their pike deep into the heart of mathematics.

2014 has been a banner year for Uncommon Descent and I'm incredibly fortunate to have lived to see it.

Date: 2015/01/11 23:42:26, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 11 2015,19:28)
Over at Why Evolution is True, Dr. Coyne just posted his year-end stats.  One image showed the views from countries under 10 views.  There was one view from Montserrat. Anyone care to guess who that might have been?

I got a whole $1 that says that view happened on February 10th, possibly the 11th.

Date: 2015/01/12 00:28:06, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 11 2015,18:41)
But, Joey never lets facts get in the way of his ideology.

Yeah, I dunno. Personally I don't think J'oh is the slightest bit religious or even gives much of a toss about politics except for the occasional gripe. He's just a dishonest game player.

His inferiority complex drives his "internet tough guy" routine. Guys like that try to find a controversial underdog to support and argue for because it gives them lots of room to bring out their inner asshole. Hence the "I'm a muslim" bullshit he pulled in the past. I think he thought he'd get more attention trying to pass himself of as one, delighting some of the evangelical crowd and becoming something of a token.

If he took a mainstream position on anything people would give even fewer fucks about anything he had to say. J'oh can't be having any of that.

Date: 2015/01/15 04:27:11, Link
Author: Lethean
You are an annoying pest, to add to the mouse on the loose in the house that is smart to how the cage mousetrap works, was surprisingly able to with their feet wet with olive oil get out of an almost upright 1800mL glass boiling flask I lured them into with a peanut butter cracker that was bigger than its head, that it stole, and the balancing tube idea that gives it four feet to jump after tipping over from its weight isn't working either. I have a spring loaded snappy trap that would probably save me the finding them a new home when it warms up outside, but after getting to know them (before they escaped by chewing through plastic cage cover) it seems too cruel, even though they are as much of sneaky pest playing with my head as you are!

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 13 2015,18:29)
I caught the mouse! Last night, right after shutting off the computer and lights then went to bed I heard what sounded like the balancing plastic mailing tube hitting the floor. And it did alright, but the piece of electronic hookup wire holding the tube to the horizontal balancing rod was too loose so the tube slid right through the loop and landed flat on the floor, mouse escaped. I first assumed that would not try that again. But from the mouse's perspective the mistake it made was to not grab the peanut butter cracker sandwich before running out of the tube. So just in case the teasing critter wanted to try that again I set it back up, this time with almost no slack left in the wire. Just enough to hold the tube while tipping upright, then drop an inch or so to the floor from at least the force of their trying to jump out.

This morning I awoke to find the tube pointing straight up on the floor, with the mouse calmly waiting inside (certainly not in panic over the ordeal). It's now in a good sized plastic holding tank instead of running around the house all night while spreading fleas and who knows what that they bring in from outside.

The mouse is the right age to be one of the two babies that were eating a peanut butter cracker my wife gave to a chipmunk while I was working with someone out in the tracksite. They had no fear at all of me, just kept on eating while I sat right next to them. It seemed like I could have petted them, but just in case they thought my finger was food or carried something contagious I kept a couple of feet of distance from them. If that's one of them then it has since learned how to be sneaky. But never got good at it. They made themselves rather obvious. A day before I knew they found the longer cardboard tube (leading to the one that was balancing) from the amplified chewing noise coming though the other end of it, that's 6 feet from where I'm now again typing into the computer.

After having mentioned the mouse I had to follow up on our progress.

Once again, Gary steps up the plate and adds complexity to a scenario more easily solved by a more simple and elegant solution.

Date: 2015/01/21 05:30:35, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Jan. 20 2015,23:07)
It is not in my best interest (or science) to divide the movement.

So, instead of Gary *plus* the people who don't give a shit about Gary's "Theory" you've opted for Gary *minus* the people who don't give a shit about Gary's "Theory".

That's one forum down, one more to go.

Date: 2015/01/21 05:51:34, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Jan. 20 2015,21:20)
Learned Hand responded to Scary Barrington as follows:

I don’t think that your blogging demonstrates the quality of your briefs; just the quality of your thinking and character.

Date: 2015/01/24 03:10:59, Link
Author: Lethean
The Happy Theory of Intelligent Birthdays holds that certain events in the universe and happy days are best explained by an intelligent birthday, not an unhappy process such as getting held upside down and slapped on your ass in your birthday suit.

Date: 2015/01/24 03:54:09, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Woodbine @ Jan. 22 2015,13:20)
Hey Gary, do you still believe Judge Jones of Kitzmiller fame was monitoring you and your theory?

Wait ... wut ?

Date: 2015/02/03 12:24:29, Link
Author: Lethean

Date: 2015/02/10 00:26:50, Link
Author: Lethean
Gary, I've riffled around in your underwear drawer and discovered a text file chock full of predictions you've derived from your theory. I took the liberty of enumerating them and one in particular has piqued my curiosity.

#20 - What triggers sexual arousal is not "hard wired" in neurons as an image, it has a molecular origin with feedback circuitry that is more or less able to sense what the eyes and brain are seeing

I was hoping you could expand on this. Could you share the moment you had this epiphany, and the train of scientific thought and reasoning that led to this prediction ?

Date: 2015/03/14 00:26:32, Link
Author: Lethean
We all are but bit players in Gary's alternate reality.

At least it's Freyja's Day.

Date: 2015/03/14 18:32:18, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (fnxtr @ Mar. 14 2015,11:41)
Anyone else seen the Lol Creme film "The Lunatic"?

Aloysius' name-accretion fetish reminds me of GG.

Nice, watching it now. YouTube has a low res version.

Thanks for that, I love coming across obscure films.

"Dee pum pum is worse tyranny than colonialism."

Date: 2015/03/19 05:15:45, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 17 2015,10:27)
Quote (NoName @ Mar. 17 2015,18:23)
I no longer have the cartoon, but I think of Gary more along the lines of the guy with the gun to his own head asserting to his wife "Don't laugh, you're next!"

He's a very poor parody of Don Quixote.

Date: 2015/04/18 12:00:32, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (The whole truth @ April 16 2015,21:45)

Fucking lunatics, the lot of them.

Good Grief. It's Jesus the Toilet Buddy.

It's not a wishing well folks.

Date: 2015/04/20 05:39:14, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 18 2015,13:14)
Quote (Lethean @ April 18 2015,12:00)
Quote (The whole truth @ April 16 2015,21:45)

Fucking lunatics, the lot of them.

FSTDT please.

Wish Granted

Date: 2015/04/20 17:54:55, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 20 2015,16:10)
From the Koch brothers sponsored department of Republican Revisionist history:

AndreApril 19, 2015 at 2:13 pm
And here is another person that don’t understand slavery in the Biblical context. Right Stenosesmella a few questions. … In 1500 BC was there such a thing as a democratic government? Careers? Pension? Medical Aid? Also was there such a thing as welfare? social workers? Police? Judicial system? Prisons? Hospitals?

Slavery in biblical times was mostly good for slaves. If a rich person did not take you in you’d be dead. Slavery in biblical times was almost always voluntary with clear rules and a handsome pay out when it was time to be freed.

The ignorance of the feeble minded saddens me.

You see your slaves were your basic moocher class, bronze age welfare queens who had it easy. This is before Jesus came back as John Galt. The just laid around waiting for their "handsome pay out" whilst who had to do all the whipping and raping? That's right, the SLAVE OWNERS!

This also (like PCD) disproves evolution because as folks basically just die without being slaves someone must have set up this cushy system from day 1.


Reminds me of Arkansas Rep John Hubbard.


The institution of slavery that the black race has long believed to be an abomination upon its people may actually have been a blessing in disguise. The blacks who could endure those conditions and circumstances would someday be rewarded with citizenship in the greatest nation ever established upon the face of the Earth.

Of course, it's only one short leap away from WLC's defense of the genocide of the Canaanites.


So whom does God wrong in commanding the destruction of the Canaanites? Not the Canaanite adults, for they were corrupt and deserving of judgement. Not the children, for they inherit eternal life. So who is wronged? Ironically, I think the most difficult part of this whole debate is the apparent wrong done to the Israeli soldiers themselves. Can you imagine what it would be like to have to break into some house and kill a terrified woman and her children? The brutalizing effect on these Israeli soldiers is disturbing.

Won't someone think of the benevolent slave owners hack and slashers ?

Date: 2015/08/18 22:55:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Aug. 14 2015,23:27)
I dunno. I've never called a baby turtle, and I doubt if it would come when called anyway.

Don't let ignorance stand in the way of your dreams !

"Turtle Calling" tradition in Namuana, Kadavu, Fiji (LMMA)

Cultural Practice That Helps Conserve turtles in Kadavu (Turtle Calling) (

Date: 2015/08/20 16:21:46, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Cubist @ Aug. 20 2015,11:33)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 19 2015,23:16)
Speaking of Time cube,  WWW.TIMECUBE.COM seems to have become some sort of link farm.  I forget who used to own it, but he made the UD crew look relatively sane and capable in comparison.  Anybody know what happened?

Weird: I just visited, and the site is visible in all its glory—for, like, maybe 5 seconds, after which the "link farm" stuff takes over the browser window. If you're quick with your browser's "show page source" function, you can copy the text of the site and paste it into a word processing window. And, of course, the Internet Archive has preserved the site, graphics included.

Hmmm… the source says, in (very small) part, <meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11">. If Wikipedia is right about which version of Word was sold under which name, Word 11 is better known as "Office Word 2003".

It loaded ok for me earlier and I didn't see the link farm bit. It must be because I use NoScript (script blocker) and Ghostery so I didn't get bounced. My uneducated guess is someone gave it a hackey-poo (don't suppose Gene is very security minded and uses the same email he has pasted all over the site) and added a little script.

Date: 2015/08/20 16:31:26, Link
Author: Lethean

   Vanilla Ice was produced in small quantities for years, but it wasn’t until the 90s that experimenters collaborated to produce a sample that could survive at room temperature for several months.

Date: 2015/08/22 09:25:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Aug. 21 2015,23:33)
Kevin Anderson disclaims any relevance to ascertaining a date for the specimen in the paper.

However, the tactic of leaving an age undetermined does have specific relevance to the usage the paper gets in religious antievolution circles. Fixing an age to the specimen would make the resulting paper less palatable for young-earth creationists to cite. Without the burden of fighting an acknowledged specimen age, YECs can be more enthusiastic in promoting the paper as an antievolutionary source.

Which has happened in places like this and this and this...


In 2012, while at a world-famous fossil dig in Montana called Hell Creek Formation, Armitage uncovered the largest triceratops horn ever found at the site. To his surprise, he discovered soft tissue in the horn when he examined it under a high-powered microscope back at CSUN. Armitage believes the fact that the soft tissue wasn’t completely fossilized indicates dinosaurs roamed in the United States only thousands of years ago. Evolutionists claim dinosaurs went extinct more than 60 million years ago.

As the manager for the Electron and Confocal Microscopy Suite in the CSUN biology department, Armitage trained students to use the school’s high-powered microscopes. In the summer of 2012, while demonstrating one of the instruments, Armitage showed students the horn’s tissue samples and engaged them in “brief Socratic dialogue about the age of the horn,” according to the lawsuit. He believed the exchange was in keeping with leading students through the scientific method. A student reported the event to Armitage’s supervisor.

That article, written by an author sympathetic to Armitage's position, contradicts Anderson's denial of usage of CSUN equipment. And claims as his source Armitage's own legal filings. Though a reporter getting something wrong wouldn't be news, by the principle of indifference it is just as believable as any other unevidenced assertion floating about. In the absence of a positive accounting of what materials and facilities were part of the research, it seems to me that it is probably reasonable to weight more heavily the report of a party without quite so large a stake in the outcome.

With respect to the part of the quote I have highlighted, it is true that a "Socratic dialog" can be a useful tool when engaging. On the other hand, depending on the bias, level of knowledge, and most importantly the intellectual honestly of the individual conducting it, one might arrive at a latrine rather than a rose garden.

It is not difficult to frame and ape the method, resulting in little more than rhetorical argument that leads down a trail of talking points if one desires. Typically it will play out in a series of questions that are given relatively quickly, one after the other without an actual exchange (ie: monologue) without giving the recipient time to evaluate and respond.

One only needs to visit Talk Rational and behold Doug Dobney, using the nick "Socrates," who attempts to engage in this way. He's spent year after year pretending in this manner whilst trying a thousand different ways to convince anyone that birds are descended from pterosaurs.

It would be near trivial to formulate a tailored series of questions that are seemingly "Socratic," but would have us smugly arrive at the question "then why are there still apes?" which potentially sways the less capable or informed.

Date: 2015/09/09 17:11:40, Link
Author: Lethean
Huh, it looks like someone who claims to be making great strides in Intelligent Design doesn't think much of Gary's work.

Gary Gaulin and his idea was derived from the old ID. He was posting too in CARM and I told him that his idea was not simple through e-mail and he had seen my initial manuscript in CARM when I introduced my new discoveries before I sent to Nature Precedings..

As I said that since the old ID was not science since it followed Darwin's erroneous idea, Gaulin's idea too was not science since Darwin did not produce science at all.

Thus, don't compare my new discovery to Gaulin...Gaulin's idea and ToE are identical..both not science...


I find this quite puzzling. What do you think Gary?

Date: 2015/09/27 15:38:27, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Sep. 27 2015,14:19)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 26 2015,15:35)
break out you ID DETECTARS and see if this triggers anything:




Date: 2015/10/01 01:44:07, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Woodbine @ Sep. 30 2015,11:45)
I might be skirting with racial stereotyping [...]

Nah. Delusional fervor is equal opportunity.

The last time I went to fundie church was with my cousin in the bible belt. All white, full blown speaking in babble with a huge open carpeted area where people ran to and fro, kids did somersaults and flips, the less capable writhing around on the floor all caught up in the "spirit."

Makes one want to laugh and cry at the same time.

Date: 2015/10/13 07:09:35, Link
Author: Lethean

I like the choice of font. All I can see is a dude giving his "d" one of those christian side hugs. Can't unsee it.

Date: 2015/10/23 18:38:14, Link
Author: Lethean
After a closer look at the data the image has been updated.

Date: 2015/10/23 19:32:28, Link
Author: Lethean
P.S. - Hat tip to the author of the corrected "Hawkins Curve" for inspiration.

P.P.S. - Ya'll got anymore of them edit button thingies ?

Date: 2015/10/25 13:11:02, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JonF @ Oct. 24 2015,07:24)
Quote (Lethean @ Oct. 23 2015,20:32)
P.S. - Hat tip to the author of the corrected "Hawkins Curve" for inspiration.

P.P.S. - Ya'll got anymore of them edit button thingies ?

You need some number of posts first.  I forget how many.

Ah, thank you. I recall reading an older thread where I got the idea it had to be approved because the frequency of some posters editing to retroactively change the context of their posts in an intellectually dishonest manner. It must have been an explanation of why it's set to be available after a certain number of posts and I missed or forgot that detail.

Date: 2015/10/26 19:37:37, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 26 2015,19:13)
Ouch, already posted by John

Don't sweat it for a second.

Comedy Gold like that is worth reading twice.

Date: 2015/10/27 10:05:54, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Quack @ Oct. 27 2015,03:39)
Indeed. Will the next Michelangelo carve the Incubating Adam? What an awesome sight that would be.

Maybe Dali was onto something.

Date: 2015/10/27 11:53:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 27 2015,10:52)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 26 2015,19:13)
Ouch, already posted by John

It was worth repeating.

Ouch, already posted by Lethean.

Crap. I think we are caught in a tardception.

Someone play one of GG's music videos and kick us with a couple of Postrado's eggs please.

Date: 2015/10/30 09:15:42, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 29 2015,17:14)
Addendum to the above (same source and all):

The ID version of common descent, however, doesn’t have to play by these rules.

Quite, or any meaningful rules at all.

Glen Davidson

The ID version of common descent, however, doesn’t have to play by these rules.

This is a bafflegab way of saying one has to leave room for the YEC crap.

See also: Creation Museum, kinds, and Super Fast Evolution...erm...MicroEvoDaption

They really can't or wont challenge the YEC/ID subset under any circumstances. It's a big, big tent.

See also: Moran's latest post pointing this out, which prompts McLatchie to show up and claim he will debate Larry. Paul Nelson shows up to hump a biologically gussied up version of the tornado in a junkyard argument and looks down at the ground kicking at the dirt trying to do everything he can to avoid admitting he's a YEC. If I could be bothered to make an account to log in and comment I'd ask him how that whole Ontological Depth thing is coming along. The comment section is a laugh riot.

Date: 2015/11/14 05:30:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 08 2015,00:47)
Edgar Postrado strikes again?
I have a 12 pic animation, tones of notes, I really do have AI.

It is human+, the real true AI,

First "pic animation"

Plus girls love boys.

Says it all really.

Date: 2015/11/16 18:24:04, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Nov. 16 2015,12:32)
And Andrew points out the real threat just below that message:          
asauberNovember 14, 2015 at 8:10 am

I think some scientists need to be prosecuted for lying to us about the risks of Global Warming Driven Islamic Militancy.


Call them the GWDIMs for short.

I would never say there are no scientists that have commented on the issue but I am aware that the Pentagon, as well as other western nation military/intelligence groups, have been studying what climate change means in respect to global conflicts and it's not pretty.

Regardless of whether or not you think the warming has a human caused component, it is indeed warming which is leading us into a scarcity of resources like fresh water that will drive more conflict, particularly in more arid areas like the middle east. The desperate will become more desperate.

Andrew's beef is not with the scientists, but the very institutions charged with keeping our nations safe. But when did reality ever enter into anything when there are Darwinists to scapegoat?

Date: 2015/11/20 14:32:29, Link
Author: Lethean
Make it stop.

Date: 2015/11/20 22:53:15, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 20 2015,22:39)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 20 2015,19:22)
Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 20 2015,21:05)
You should send him The Diagram, Gary.

How do you know that the diagram is not already partially to blame for him giving-up on ID?

As a tribute, you should add farty noises to The Diagram.  It would be even more sciency.

I hereby challenge Gary Gaulin to demonstrate the intelligent origin of the Brown Note.

Date: 2015/11/27 09:31:10, Link
Author: Lethean
Good lord, a couple of posts down in that thread.


Mapou  November 26, 2015 at 10:22 am


   By Darwinist plant do you mean the old strict selection on mutation or the modern inclusions of genetic drift?? evolutionists complain if Darwinism is used as the title in describing the evolution of things like plants.

There is no doubt that you are a gutless Darwinist plant. You often drop your guard and change your writing style from that of a homophobic Bible-thumping moron to a highly educated (brainwashed) Darwinist pretending to be otherwise. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. You people are not nearly as smart as you think you are. Your little religious cult is cretinous to a fault.

Now, it's been noticed a time or two that occasionally Robert will produce a post that seems to have a clarity that is fairly uncharacteristic of his usual output, but FFS.

Date: 2015/12/04 17:14:12, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 03 2015,15:50)
Our buddies Joe G/Frankie/Virgil Caine and Robert Byers have each hosted an OP at TSZ on the same day.


The Great Flood Didit

Just a reminder to make sure everyone treats Robert as per the usual, as stated in the instructions that were read aloud during the last secret meeting of the Darwinist Undercover PseudoShill Network.

Mapou almost outed him recently.

(More seriously, if Robert's occasional coherent posts were indeed the slip-ups of someone posing as Mapou alleged, and it turned out to be the case Robert really is a sock of someone playing a character that totally trolls and aggravates everyone on both sides ... what an epic piece of internet performance art. Genius even. I don't believe that, 9.9 out of a scale of 10 against, but it's fun to think about.)

Date: 2015/12/23 08:18:02, Link
Author: Lethean
Over at Sandwalk, Larry has a look at Luskin's article "No ID Research? Let's Help Out This Iowa State Student" in which Luskin claims ...

Intelligent design advocates have done a great deal of research, leading to numerous scientific discoveries.

Gary takes issue and responds to Ye Middle-Aged Attack Gerbil by commenting at Sandwalk.

Gary Gaulin  Tuesday, December 22, 2015 5:52:00 PM

The "flagship scientific journal for the movement" is only allowed to be used by those who are associated with an academic institution that the Discovery Institute wants to flaunt. Therefore I am forbidden to publish my "theory of intelligent design" in the "science journal" for the "theory of intelligent design".

Interested in submitting to BIO-Complexity? We recommend that you review the About page for the journal's section policies, as well as the Author Guidelines. Authors need to register with BIO-Complexity prior to submitting. To be registered, send an email from an institutional or corporate account to our support address, or if already registered simply log in and begin the 5 step process.


There are no "mountains of research and evidence" in what Casey linked to. It's absolutely depressing to see him making a fool out of me, while still making a fool out of himself by repeating the same old garbage that already caused so much trouble in Dover:

You have to deny mountains of research and evidence to say that. Intelligent design advocates have done a great deal of research, leading to numerous scientific discoveries. Let's help out this student by reviewing some prominent ones, amounting to only a portion of that overall research. (For a complete listing of pro-ID peer-reviewed publications, see: Peer-Reviewed Articles Supporting Intelligent Design.)

I for one am appalled at how Gary's academic freedom is being so casually disregarded and trampled upon by the DI/BIO-Complexity.

The enemy of my enemy and whatnot.

Date: 2016/01/06 20:07:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 05 2016,19:27)
E.T.A: Add failure to use the Oxford comma to Gordo's long list of sins.

Date: 2016/01/06 20:15:53, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 06 2016,19:43)
The abuse I point to includes cyberstalking and on the ground stalking, as well as the now increasingly common alinskyite/ cultural marxist agit-prop tactics and linked nihilist, amoral factionalism and bigotry —

I refuse to believe that anybody has flown/sailed/floated/washed up on the shore or otherwise traveled thousands of miles to Monserrat in order to harass Kairosfocus.  I'm probably the only one here who has ever seriously thought of travelling to that island for any reason.  

The only thing keeping me from going is the mortal dread of being stranded on a tiny island with a foaming-at-the-mouth nut job who who absolutely insists on talking (at GREAT length!) about Jesus, His Mighty Works and the Holy Entropy of Fishing Reels when the next plane outta there is three days away.


I got five bucks that says he found a cigarette butt and a weathered half page of some kid's science homework three blocks from his home.

Date: 2016/02/07 19:50:59, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 07 2016,13:49)
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 07 2016,13:32)

February 7, 2016 at 10:27 am

Alicia, your use of cutesy names like pucci and mungy betrays an impotent fury that’s just sad to watch. Whatever the reason for your bitterness, you should grow up.

Alicia Cartelli

February 7, 2016 at 10:34 am

Oh Rexy, UD is just a playground for idiots and I treat it as such.
Get over yourself


Considering what he's called Bill and me on my blog... kettle, though art black.

I knew my job would be easy.

All of the following comments by Rexy were all made to merely one article at Ogre's place. (linky)

Let the hypocrisy shine !

Oops, Smiley, this one ain't for you. It's for some fella named "hole truth."

Physician Tugsy, Heal Thyself !   (imgur album)

Date: 2016/02/07 20:10:00, Link
Author: Lethean
... and it should be noted that in that series of comments, not once did Ogre or anyone else (not even the whole truth!) called RexTugwell Rexy or Tugsy or anything else.

(Also, still really want one of those edit button thingys like all the cool kids have.)

Date: 2016/02/12 20:25:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 08 2016,12:35)
Quote (Lethean @ Feb. 07 2016,18:10)
... and it should be noted that in that series of comments, not once did Ogre or anyone else (not even the whole truth!) called RexTugwell Rexy or Tugsy or anything else.

(Also, still really want one of those edit button thingys like all the cool kids have.)

Dang, that must have been an off day for me. :p

P.S. For what it's worth, which probably isn't much, I feel that Lethean should get an edit button. It seems odd to me that edit buttons aren't given to everyone. If it's abused, it can be withdrawn. Can a time limit be put on editing a comment? Say, 30 minutes?

Sure, first you build me up ...

ETA: checked enable emoticons.

Edited by The whole truth on Feb. 08 2016,10:37

... and then you go and wave your edit button thingy around. Uh huh.

(JK, thanks for advocating for me. :) )

Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 08 2016,16:04)
As I recall, the edit function becomes available after 75 posts. I could be off a bit since it was a long time ago.

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 08 2016,16:51)
My recollection is I had to ask.

Welp, this is post #71 so we'll see soon, yay!

I'm attempting poorly to be cute about it, but in all honesty it speaks more about my need to kick up my preview and proofreading skills a notch than it does my needs for an edit button thingy. They are handy though ...

Date: 2016/02/12 21:26:56, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 12 2016,19:19)
MapouFebruary 12, 2016 at 3:02 pm
It goes without saying that GR is not 100% wrong. Otherwise it would never have survived or even seen the light of day. But most of it wrong. The one nice thing about GR is the equivalence principle whereby gravitational acceleration is said to be equivalent to inertial acceleration. Gravitational clock slowing (not time dilation, which is nonsense) is a good principle used in GPS navigation.

But nobody needs to have curved spacetime, gravitational waves, time travel, black holes, wormholes, continuous structures, deterministic universe or any of the other absurd crap that Einsteinian physics is bloated with for GPS to work.

so, you know, it's all wrong, except the obviously right stuff that i can't dispute, but other than that it's all wrong.

Flushed with the envy of Dembski's "Fig Newton of Information" accolades, Mapou is making a play for "Fig Newton of Physics".

He's gonna have to bring his A-game if he thinks he's gonna out-Sewell Sewell however.

Date: 2016/02/18 13:28:08, Link
Author: Lethean
The podcast Reasonable Doubts have been a favorite of mine for the last couple of years. Sadly, the episodes were coming less frequently and knowing they having been producing them for several years it seemed likely they were going to officially stop and the cast members would move on to other things.

Well, a few months ago the announcement came and was followed quickly by the final podcast. I haz a sad. But I haz idea. Go back to the first episode, which I have never heard, and maybe listen through the catalog of episodes.

So, I went back to their old site to find it* and found myself confronted by a pic of this dapper young man whom they interviewed in their very first episode about the "post Dover" situation. It was a pleasant surprise (and listen) and thought I'd take a moment to say thank you very much Wesley for all the work you put in over the years and for being a gracious host here at AtBC.

(* The entire catalog is available in their RSS feed but it wasn't working properly until just recently. Someone must have revamped the entire deal in the last week or so.)

Date: 2016/02/23 05:20:23, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 23 2016,04:45)
In contrast, Barry seems to be a true believer and views the Other Side (i.e. us) as the enemy.

Now why would you go and say something like tha...

We are in a war. That is not a metaphor. We are fighting a war for the soul of Western Civilization, and we are losing, badly. In the summer of 2015 we find ourselves in a positon very similar to Great Britain’s position 75 years ago in the summer of 1940 – alone, demoralized, and besieged on all sides by a great darkness that constitutes an existential threat to freedom, justice and even rationality itself.

... oh ... right.

Date: 2016/03/03 01:45:29, Link
Author: Lethean
Intelligent Design Man Saves Darwinist Materialist Being Attacked By Evil Intelligence From Outer Space

Date: 2016/03/05 22:30:39, Link
Author: Lethean
That second to last paragraph sums up what I've always thought. I was listening to a podcast the other day where fine tuning was being more or less debated and it was frustrating to me that nobody brought that up.

The second paragraph is reflective of the same misuse of the 2nd Law of Thermalpants to argue super-special-ness. The failure to understand that local pockets of lower entropy are possible with the nearby input of the energy from a star. Conceptually, same may be true of the visible (to us thus far) universe.

(for the record 75 posts does not an edit button thingy give - not a complaint)

Date: 2016/03/20 12:58:44, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Mar. 20 2016,12:44)
Quote (tsig @ Mar. 19 2016,15:43)
Quote (Quack @ Mar. 15 2016,09:25)
If I make the not unwarranted assumption that those people represent something like the spearhead of the Sisyphusian effort of not only to defend but even to propagate the  glory of inventions made up by Dembski and Behe, like IRC, CSI, et cetera, I don't se any prospect of them reaching their goal before hell freezes over.

Are they stupid, insane, or both? Wilfully ignorant and uninformed, certainly. And orphaned by Dembski.

Dempskies' new career as a purveyor of fine fries doesn't leave him much opportunity to network.

But finally he is being immensely more productive than when he was bullshitting for Jesus.

Fries don't lie, neither when they're being so delicious, nor when they're bulging fat clinging to your body.

Glen Davidson

There is something to be said for the fine tuning of deep fryer oil temperature.

Date: 2016/03/22 00:35:53, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Mar. 21 2016,20:43)
How can somebody live in a universe where motion is impossible? Doesn't life sort of depend on motion, at least enough of it to move nutrients in and waste products out? (That's what flagella are for, after all! ) :p

We are all walking decaying human poop tubes on the hunt.

Date: 2016/03/29 21:33:22, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ Mar. 29 2016,19:23)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 29 2016,18:56)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Mar. 29 2016,17:41)
Quote (Learned Hand @ Mar. 29 2016,17:15)
LinkedIn just suggested Dr. Dembski to me as a possible connection; he's listed as working with Erasmus Communications. I googled it to see what's up, and...


Apparently he's the president and CEO of Erasmus Communications.  His wife is the VP.  Check out this diagram of the company's connections, including a link to another ??? company owned by Robert J. Marks

Dembski's new company

IANAL but if I had to guess it would be "bogus corporation / tax shelter"

Demsbki and Marks have a trademark with Darwinalia LLC...


Novelty items, namely, plastic box containing dirt to be sold to general consumers for testing the theory of evolution

Owned by: Darwinalia LLC

Serial Number: 78888478"

I guess you can't trademark farty noises.

Well, if you arrange the tones in a relatively unique order you can copyright them.

Date: 2016/05/25 19:34:17, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JonF @ May 25 2016,15:56)
WTF is up with TSZ and Talk Rational? Is some hacker breaking DB connections on pro-reality sites?

I was just about to post a question asking if anyone knew what the details were re:TalkRational. Dave probably thinks Jesus brought the hammer down because he got shoved into the "closet of truth". Good Lord that boy is one narcissistic ASSclown.

I haven't had any issues reading TSZ, but then again I don't post there and only check in every few days or so to catch up. Always nice to watch Mung flitting about like a little monkey, chattering his mocking one-liners and flinging his tiny turds everywhere.

Date: 2016/05/28 04:02:27, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Alan Fox @ May 27 2016,14:14)

The site has been down for over a week, now. I hope they have a backup for their database. I'm starting to miss the news on Dave's goats.

Looks like TR is back in bid'ness. Yay!

Date: 2016/05/28 04:12:18, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Lethean @ May 28 2016,04:02)
Quote (Alan Fox @ May 27 2016,14:14)

The site has been down for over a week, now. I hope they have a backup for their database. I'm starting to miss the news on Dave's goats.

Looks like TR is back in bid'ness. Yay!

Aww crap, never mind. At the moment only the home/index page loads. Trying to view any of the subforums gives the ol' db error. Hopefully that gets sorted out soon.

The index looks ok though. I just happened to be online when it went down. I had just submitted a post after getting caught up on the usual threads. From what I recall, who posted what last, the index looks accurate with respect to the time it went down.

Date: 2016/06/04 06:14:21, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 28 2016,14:00)

Ipso facto, comets are intelligent, eh ?

Date: 2016/06/04 16:41:30, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 04 2016,13:36)
Quote (stevestory @ June 04 2016,13:12)
Do they have any answer for how everyone in history who believes in Absolute Morality, also happens to believe that theirs is the absolute one?

No. They all appear to suffer from Mulingsitis. If you disagree with my morals, you are polarizing, strawmanning, red herring, Alinsjyite, Marxist, enabler, Stalinist, a Nazi... And pushing us all over the cliff to a broken back.

I get the feeling there's a thing or two missing from this list. Seems a little light.

Date: 2016/06/07 22:23:32, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ June 07 2016,14:35)
aapJune 7, 2016 at 11:22 am
As a multiyear watcher on UD I have appreciated the discussions and the willingness of ID scientists, computer programmers, philosophers, engineers, lawyers and others who enjoy thinking for themselves and are willing to take the flak in challenging methodological naturalistic evolutionary orthodoxy. I believe that theistic evolution is bad science and very bad theology. I won’t get into the bad theology part, which is nothing more than a poisonous liberal recipe of Esau’s bowl of pottage which has been slowly and painfully destroying the mainline churches and is now invading the evangelical churches. Forget the theology for now, the science is wanting. For over the past 45 or so years since becoming interested in the evolution-creation debate I have heard a lot of huffing and bluffing on the part of evolutionists, theistic or otherwise, of “we are going to blow your creationist house down with all of the overwhelming evidence for common descent via the materialistic evolutionary process”. The present issue on this thread regarding vestigial genetic markers and the “God wouldn’t do it this way” comments are, as others have pointed out, just a regurgitating of the older vestigial organ arguments which didn’t turn out very well for the evolutionary believers. Like many others I have been waiting and watching for some real hard evidence that actually supports the evolutionary beliefs. I think it is time for evolutionists, theistic or otherwise, to either put up or shut up. My challenge for Drs. Venema and Swamidass and other evolutionists is to show us the goods, let us see “the money”. Most biological evolutionists, theistic or otherwise, give the impression that they are experts in their understanding of the evolutionary mutational and natural selection process. In their superior knowledge they tell us that they understand and can see how common descent works. So I say, show us what you can do with your evolutionary knowledge. How about something simple like creating a new cellular life form from non-life. If they believe that life happened by accidental processes, why don’t they give us a demonstration or least an explanation of how those kind of accidents can happen, and why they don’t keep happening. Or, is it just part of their belief system? Despite all of the hype in OOL research, they are light years away from understanding what life actually is, let alone being able to manufacture it from non-life. Today, through real scientific disciplines we know that all life forms are information rich with irreducibly complex and integrated miniature computerized type systems. Real science teaches us that life doesn’t come from non-life, but all life comes from the “Word”- the information created by the Creator. Why don’t the evolutionary biologists use their “superior knowledge” and give us a demonstration of the power of the evolutionary process. Where are all of the peer reviewed papers explaining to us “duffusses” exactly which mutations have to take place in order to transform one kind of creature into another and how those mutations were caused. How about changing a unicellular life form into a different kind of viable multicellular life form through the application of directed mutations and natural selection. That shouldn’t be too hard with all of their expertize. No, all they have managed to do with their extensive knowledge of evolution and years of experimentation and wasted government funding of evolutionary biology is to produce either deformed or dead bacteria or houseflies. Where would evolutionary biology be without government welfare? Who is going to waste their own money on research that doesn’t produce any concrete results? How about something a little more challenging like transforming an asexual lifeform into a sexually reproducing life form. Let them show us how it happens. Now if they really are smart they will also be able to create sentient life through accidental mutations. I am waiting, and so are many others. True science can create some amazing technological contraptions which are almost miraculous, but only GOD can do what is truly miraculous, which is the creation of our universe and every kind of life, including human life.
It is time to end the huffing and bluffing and just-so stories and speculations about vestigial organs or genetics and give us the real deal. Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist and one of the world’s leaders in evolutionary biology, wrote this very revealing statement that highlights the implicit a priori bias against GOD that he and many other methodological naturalistic scientists hold:
‘We take the side of science in spite of the patent absurdity of some of its constructs, in spite of its failure to fulfill many of its extravagant promises of health and life, in spite of the tolerance of the scientific community for unsubstantiated just-so stories, because we have a prior commitment, a commitment to materialism. It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for we cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door.’

Yes, the Divine Foot feared by Richard Lewontin and other materialistic minded scientists is not only in the door but is trampling on their cherished evolutionary religious beliefs that they are nothing more than mutated and mutating creatures who are free from the Divine will.
Lastly, it is tragic that theistic evolutionists in their insistence on methodological naturalism usually take the side of the scientific establishment in the ostracizing and persecution of other scientists who do not believe the evidence supports evolutionary common descent, but instead points to an Intelligent Designer or Creator GOD. It is understandable why atheistic believers would hold to evolutionary beliefs and not be able to see the power and wisdom of GOD revealed in His Creation, for they have nothing else but evolution to believe in, but it is lamentable that those who express theism should be so blind as not to see GOD’S hand in His absolutely incredible handiwork in the universe and in life, particularly human life. It is time for all scientists to humble themselves and give GOD the glory He deserves for His miraculous creations. ID is a good start.


Date: 2016/06/20 21:18:30, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 20 2016,07:59)
bornagain77June 19, 2016 at 10:10 pm
Since you have not honestly admitted you were wrong in your original claim about computers creating mathematical equations/algorithmic information, I am not going to address any other fallacious/red herring claims you make.

In fact, I have put a personal request in to admin that you be banned (once again) for trollish behavior.

SOB! He's telling his mom! Let's cheeze it to the soda shop!

Date: 2016/06/26 08:39:12, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Glen Davidson @ June 24 2016,10:39)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 24 2016,09:23)
Turn off your irony meters before you read this. The overload may be dangerous.

William Murray:
One of the things I’ve noticed about many who come here to argue against the home team is that many appear to share the same inability to recognize and process certain kinds of abstract arguments. It really is as if they are biological automatons processing sequences of words and failing to comprehend the abstract concept those words are referring to.

Additionally, they appear to be not at all interested in any kind of internal, reflective self-criticism about the nature of their worldview. Such points as are presented here were of keen interest to me when I first visited this site many years ago and I changed many of my views as a result. I’m always on the lookout for problems with my worldview so I can correct or abandon them.

But, most of our interlocutors here seem only to care about defending their views, not actually examining them, which leads them to say self-contradictory or logically absurd things. They don’t even care if their defense remains logically coherent in itself, or if they portray their views with any consistency at all.

They appear often to have a single focus: deny theism, deny the supernatural at all costs and with any means necessary, even if it paints you into an irrational, hypocritical position full of obvious double-standards – such as sweeping denials of evidence and requiring “extraordinary” evidence where it suits them, and simply ignoring it when the logical contradictions of your defense are pointed out.

Comment 18

Murray, paraphrased:

If you don't share the mind-rot that I believe in, obviously you're just a closed-minded bigot.

To be fair to him, he does seem to shift around from one dumbfuck idea to another dumbfuck idea more than most of the IDiots do.  There just doesn't seem to be much thought or self-reflection involved--more like an attempt to arm himself with whatever superficially appears able to harm the enemy du jour.

Glen Davidson

My favorite bit is this ...

I’m always on the lookout for problems with my worldview so I can correct or abandon them.

Says the guy who on more than one occasion quite clearly stated that he doesn't really care whether or not his beliefs are true, only that they are useful to him.

Good grief.

Date: 2016/07/15 12:44:58, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ July 13 2016,11:20)
Robert Byers, Poet Laureate of Tard:
I use the fish to fisherman CLAIMS of evolutionists to point out what they are saying. I understand they always have “some fishthing’ crawling onto the land and soon a hippo.
Anyways snakes having vestiges of former legs is not evidence of anything but former legs. ITS NOT Evidence for process or common descent. a YEC creationist welcomes snakes with these vestiges as evidence of GENESIS claim snakes lost their legs. I would insist its one of the few cases in biology. Its not GOOD sampling to use them to prove evolution. naughty.

I think embryology has no evidence for evolution. it only shows life in stages of serious early development.
Any likeness to biology out there is just because of limited options at such levels.
What should embryology look like if evolution was not true?
If there is a common blueprint and there is THEN it would also be that those stages have likeness because of common design.
Why not?
The idea that the history of creatures evolution remaining in the fetus stages is very strange and 19th century thinking.
Its simplistic hunching.
Comparativeness in nature must not be proof of common descent.
There are more and better options and obviously evolutionism only can use embryology if there is no other option for looks.
Think harder evos.

If anyone out there is forming a band, "And soon a hippo" would be a splendid name.  With "Simplistic hunching" as the first album.

Canatard Records Presents Simplistic Hunching
The Debut Album From The Biological Rock Group And Soon A Hippo
Includes Their #1 Single Pickaxes & Dynamite

Date: 2016/07/17 18:04:59, Link
Author: Lethean
[quote=JohnW,July 15 2016,13:36]  
Quote (Lethean @ July 15 2016,10:44)

Where did you find the picture of JoeG?

Google image search for "compulsive lying internet tough guy nowhere near a parking lot".

Date: 2016/07/26 00:30:24, Link
Author: Lethean
I'm reminded of that scene in Blake Edward's Skin Deep where John Ritter and Bryan Genesse run into each other in the dark and wind up fighting wearing nothing but glow-in-the-dark condoms.

Date: 2016/08/03 17:12:42, Link
Author: Lethean
Pigs are flying over a snowball fight in hell where cats and dogs co-habitating. Ok, not really, but this pretty entertaining.

Byers squares off and in his own Byer-esque manner defends Darwin against the seemingly obsessed crank-like Sutton, champion of Patrick Matthew.

Mike Sutton.
I am a hosyile creationist. Yet I have read Darwin and he went out of his way to be fair about who got the credit for what he thought was a great idea to change mankinds thinking on origins.
He stressed recognizing Wallace in a very gentlemanly way.
Je likewise recognized this Patrick who possibly could not og even got his claims noticed.
In fact dArwin didn't deny him..
One would have to go a long way, and bit further, to suggest darwin was lying about his independent discovery.
further also is the argument made in his books. its fully based on observations and then reasonings from it.
There is no hint or need for Patrick's stuff..
Darwin correctly calcuated he would get the credit despite some priority claim on some points by patrick.
I guess fair and square.

It goes on from there into another chain of comments.

Behold the Bemusement.

Date: 2016/08/14 06:59:04, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Aug. 12 2016,14:56)
KF at his conspiracy theory best:
Mix in, a Supreme Court judge dies under strange circumstances and no serious autopsy is performed . . . and, he died in “assassination and cover up central,” since 1963. (Wasn’t there a question mark over a presidential autopsy and/or its results back then too? At least, there was an autopsy that time. And, a film of the assassination.)

Isn’t that rather obviously a red flag?

The strange circumstances being that he was about to turn 80, had a long history of heart disease, high blood pressure, was a diabetic, was obviously obese, was a smoker, and to help him not die in his sleep was provided by his physician with a CPAP breathing device to use at night to deal with sleep apnea which he didn't bother using the night he died. All of which was taken into account by his own doctors who deemed him to be too weak to risk relatively straightforward shoulder surgery because they believed he'd likely die on the slab.

But the fact he was in Texas, that's the real clincher.

Date: 2016/08/14 08:43:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (N.Wells @ Aug. 14 2016,01:28)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Aug. 13 2016,20:31)
I wonder if Gary could learn anything from this: What I learned from being a hired consultant to autodidact physicists

That was unexpectedly fascinating, thank you.

these callers have two things in common: they spend an extraordinary amount of time on their theories, and they are frustrated that nobody is interested.


My clients know so little about current research in physics, they aren’t even aware they’re in a foreign country. They have no clue how far they are from making themselves understood.


A typical problem is that, in the absence of equations, they project literal meanings onto words such as ‘grains’ of space-time or particles ‘popping’ in and out of existence. Science writers should be more careful to point out when we are using metaphors.

Grabbing the full paragraph the second quote is taken from ...

My clients know so little about current research in physics, they aren’t even aware they’re in a foreign country. They have no clue how far they are from making themselves understood. Their ideas aren’t bad; they are raw versions of ideas that underlie established research programmes. But those who seek my advice lack the mathematical background to build anything interesting on their intuitions. I try to help them by making connections to existing research. During our conversations, I point them towards relevant literature and name the important keywords. I give recommendations on what to do next, what they need to learn, or what problem lies in the way. And I make clear that if they want to be taken seriously by physicists, there’s no way around mathematics, lots of mathematics. Images and videos will not do.

Sounds like she's literally cashing in on #15

10 points for each statement along the lines of "I'm not good at math, but my theory is conceptually right, so all I need is for someone to express it in terms of equations".

Date: 2016/08/30 11:16:39, Link
Author: Lethean
Chin Up, Torley !

Date: 2016/09/02 22:13:41, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Ptaylor @ Sep. 02 2016,04:18)
It seems that J-Mac is competing for the 2016 Gabby Johnson gibberish award:
J-MacSeptember 1, 2016 at 6:18 pm

Interestingly, Larry Moran is apparently writing something for the first time and it’s apparently going to be a book to support the 90% junk DNA delusion that very few uneducated Darwinists apparently still support.

I'm still trying to parse the last part of that sentence.
He then announces that he is the same idiot* issuing passive aggressive challenges to Prof Moran over at Sandwalk lately:
I’ve offered to publish Larry’s book asap so that by the time his book is published it is no longer 85% SHORT OUT OF JUNK DNA PREDICTION.

I hope Larry takes it seriously and is not trying to commit himself to failure right at the end of his ……. career…

*Cruglers? I have a vague recollection of another 'nym over there too.
UD link

That would be Eric who boastfully claims to have a company and "foundation" with access to "more than a few scientists" and "more than a few labs" and apparently publishers both new and old as well. Which makes me suspect, as I have for some time, that Eric is "Hovind the lesser" as these claims would be somewhat true in a stretching the truth like taffy sense. He is just that kinda of smarmy jackass.

Research for a book

"...I'm on sabbatical this term..."

I just hope it was a voluntary sabbatical...

Here is an idea for the title of your book:

"If more than 10% of human genome is not junk-I will become a creationist."

This title has more punch and it is much more likely to attract attention of possible publishers even if your book is shit or turns out to be shit. I know something about it. I published one or two books.


It's too bad you have removed my comment without leaving any trace of it...

I know I have been silly but I still believe that your book could be a breakthrough. I have even contacted some of my literary agents from long ago and even the recent ones, just to see if they would be interested in getting your book published. I hope you have at least one literary agent working with and for you Larry.

Are you planning to review some of the knock-out experimental data in your book?

How about fugu and such? Are you going to mention any of that "junk DNA" anomaly?

If you don't submit your book for publishing by the end of the year, there may be some experimental results of knock-out mice and some plants that you may find very interesting...


Off topic.

I hope you don't remove it.

The company I'm part of has a little bit of money to spare on real, experimental research. The board of directors is very, very particular about where the money should go. If you had a real experiment model in mind to prove your "junk DNA" theory, and if it wasn't very costly and very long, they may go for it. Well, it is worth trying- let's put it this way.

If you had such an experiment in mind that would definitely prove your point and at the same time made ENCODE look like amateurs, they just may go for it. Mind you, they are very careful with spending the foundation and the company money, but one of the board members apparently used to be a biochemists or something like that and he apparently have spoken (critically or not I don't know) publically about ENOCODE.

Anyways, do you have a dream plan for an experiment that is going to exonerate not only you, but possibly all those losers who made predictions about junk DNA?

I could submit a proposal on your behalf.

Georgi Malinov,

What's your view of the research that has recently been published by more than a few science magazines on the subject of "junk DNA" being the ocean of regulatory functions to unknown areas of science?

Do you think that your commitment and Larry's is going to stand for a long time?

I take bets... Are you interested?

How about this: If in 2 years nobody wants to publish Larry's book, I will sponsor it, but you will write all the supporting bs, provided Larry is okay with that.

Are interested?

Date: 2016/09/06 12:22:45, Link
Author: Lethean
Over on TalkRational, Hawkins starts a thread where he claims to be "researching" the possibility that "the ancients" (by which he means Seth the son of Adam) had advanced knowledge of the natural world including its size and oblateness.

No, really.

Having gone way off the reservation into woo-meister number-wanking territory he makes this rather odd assertion.

Dave Hawkins
Brother Daniel
Dave Hawkins

In fact, evidence has been increasing in recent decades that mankind had at least as much knowledge of the natural world as did Eratosthenes even as far back as 4500 years ago.

No it hasn't.

Something I've noticed about Dave:  When talking about amounts of evidence, he loves to make claims about the evidence "increasing".

It doesn't matter to him if the evidence is less than 0.01% of the amount needed to begin to take the idea seriously.  As long as that tiny amount of evidence represents an INCREASE over whatever it was previously, then he imagines that the amount of evidence has some sort of momentum, and will thus continue to increase to the point where it eventually becomes overwhelming.

Apparently, he's not concerned with the overall weight of evidence; he's concerned with the rate of change of the overall weight of evidence.

(Never mind that he can't support even his claims about that rate of change.  That's another issue.)

The reason I said that in this instance was because I've referred to the Wiki article on Eratosthenes several times over the years and I don't remember EVER reading that he got anywhere close to 1% of the true circumference value.  I think that was a "fringe view" 10 years ago.  Now it's in the Wiki article and hasn't been removed by Wesley Elsberry's goons.

Wesley, if this is a paid position I'd like an application if you don't mind.

Date: 2016/09/06 12:25:39, Link
Author: Lethean
Forgot the linky.


Date: 2016/09/14 15:03:26, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Ptaylor @ Sep. 02 2016,04:18)
It seems that J-Mac is competing for the 2016 Gabby Johnson gibberish award:
J-MacSeptember 1, 2016 at 6:18 pm

Interestingly, Larry Moran is apparently writing something for the first time and it’s apparently going to be a book to support the 90% junk DNA delusion that very few uneducated Darwinists apparently still support.

I'm still trying to parse the last part of that sentence.
He then announces that he is the same idiot* issuing passive aggressive challenges to Prof Moran over at Sandwalk lately:
I’ve offered to publish Larry’s book asap so that by the time his book is published it is no longer 85% SHORT OUT OF JUNK DNA PREDICTION.

I hope Larry takes it seriously and is not trying to commit himself to failure right at the end of his ……. career…

*Cruglers? I have a vague recollection of another 'nym over there too.
UD link

FWIW, you were correct about Cruglers mouthing off about the same nonsense. I hadn't noticed anything from him until recently when he made a couple of comments similar to Eric's in the recent IncRNA thread. I would have quoted him here but Larry finally decided to give him the boot and his comments didn't remain long enough for me to grab 'em.

Date: 2016/09/16 21:17:37, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 16 2016,12:26)
Bob O'HSeptember 15, 2016 at 8:54 am
Your connection between modern-day islamISM and the Ottoman Empire is that radical islamists want an Islamic state. That’s it? Nothing more? Oh, and apparently something to do with James Bond’s fictional boss.

I was hoping that you would have some actual evidence of a connection between the two. Ah well.

kairosfocusSeptember 15, 2016 at 4:19 pm
BO’H: It seems, you have not read Quran [that is, Q] Surah 9:5 and 29, or related materials regarding the Caliphate, the history, the Pact of Umar and other linked matters directly relevant to both Ottoman Caliphs and acts of men like bin Laden or al Baghdadi. I suggest you do so. As a 101, you may read here then here, noting the significance of names like “Silas” at that site. KF

PS: Q, 9:5

>>Sahih International
And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.>>

–> Silas, here:

Q 9:29:

>>Sahih International
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah [–> a poll tax, de facto protection money] willingly while they are humbled [–> reduced to permanent subject people status ].>>

–> this is the root of subjugation of Christians and Jews [“people of the Book”] under dhimmitude, an apartheid-like subject people status, cf Bat Ye’Or

–> Note, on the Pact of Umar:

–> observe, the unlimited character of these texts and their historic role as in effect commission to perpetual war (never mind the hudnahs, temporary truces on the way to renewed offensive war)

–> Likewise, Bill Warner’s lecture here is appropriate warning:

–> In our day, we have been carelessly playing with fire here . . . part of why we need the three successive days: complacency day 09/10, memorial of attack day 09/11, Jan Sobieski day 09/12.

kairosfocusSeptember 15, 2016 at 4:41 pm
–> A reader that gives further background on Caliphate and related issues:

Bob O'HSeptember 16, 2016 at 6:26 am
kf – I’m afraid I don’t have time to chase up a lot of literature at the moment, so as you’re apparently not going to give an explanation, I think we should leave it here.

Like Bob, I'm not inclined to dig around and read up but if I recall correctly Mullings is doing what certainly outrages him when others do it with the WORD OF THE LORD (ya know, the real word, not that other one, or that other one either, actually none of the others).

Not that it necessarily makes the proper understanding entirely okey dokey but that reference to Surah 9:5 is pretty much a quotemine out of context. If you start from verse 1 it's discussing what to do if a treaty that had been made with the polytheists is broken by them. Basically, "if they don't keep up the end of their bargain, this means war".

Not that it matters but I remember this from an interview by a cleric who works to de-radicalize fellow muslims and it's one of those verses out of many that are used out of context to get believers panties in a twist and support their idea of jihad. Of course, Mullings probably doesn't want to discuss that anymore than he does all the times in history that the same was done to justify the immoral laws, actions, and atrocities using his own WORDS OF THE LORD.

Date: 2016/09/16 21:25:58, Link
Author: Lethean
Uh, make that "keep up their end of the bargain".

(Coincidentally this is my 100th post. Here's to hoping the forum gremlins grant me an edit button thingy)

Date: 2016/09/16 21:47:46, Link
Author: Lethean
I too received a notification just now. Also, nothing new in my inbox and really I have no reason to expect anyone to message me. I'm not sure if it normal forum software behavior. I don't comment much, don't really send messages, and I've only received two myself and they were a long time ago.

There was a little popup window informing me, then a second window asking if I wanted to let it open in a new window, I clicked ok but got a message in FireFox about blocking the script trying to open a new window. I dismissed that as usual automatically without thinking. After that I saw the inbox link on the upper right said "1 new" so I clicked it annnnd nothing in the inbox.

Possibly someone exploiting to deliver spam/phishing ?

Date: 2016/09/20 19:04:43, Link
Author: Lethean
I know jack all about programming, I'm not even a biologist, but I've always been pretty good at visualizing concepts and being fairly able to differentiate and also relate between a model or map and the landscape itself. In Mung's latest Weasel thread it's apparent he's trying not to see the bigger picture and he completely misses how it's related to the very demonstrable reality we all live in. Which to be honest if one were trying to "get it" it should be pretty evident and light bulb would come on.

In a post with a number of queries, petrushka asks...

Is there any conceptual problem with replacing a static target with a moving target?

Mung responds...

No. Does that help or hinder when trying to demonstrate the power of cumulative selection? Perhaps a moving target Weasel will be next up, now that I finally have the hang of this Weasel programming.

keiths tries once again to clear up Mung's confusion that while Weasel has a target, cumulative selection does not require one. Or in relation to reality perhaps it's not a hard target but a fluid one, as in survival in an ever changing environment.

This is just Mungish confusion. Weasel has a target, and so its fitness function rewards proximity to that target. That does not mean that cumulative selection requires a target, as is obvious to those of us who actually understand the concept. The target and the proximity-rewarding fitness function are characteristics of Weasel, not of cumulative selection generally.

Another example was your challenge regarding what would happen if we changed Weasel’s target phrase in the middle of a run. Biological evolution operates in changing fitness landscapes, so if you could somehow show that cumulative selection was thwarted by such changes, you could argue that it’s insufficient as a selective mechanism for biological evolution.

But as anyone who understands Weasel could predict, it simply starts tracking toward the new target
, and I even provided a feature in my Weasel that allows you to experiment with this. Your weird single-character latching program, by contrast, can’t handle changes to the target phrase, because any characters it has already latched are latched for good.

Since the target gambit failed, you are now dicking around with weird fitness functions that are designed to impede convergence while still (you hope) qualifying as instances of cumulative selection. As Joe and I have pointed out, that tactic also fails.

A bit earlier in the thread Keiths tries to explain the logic problem Mung is having.

What is the point of these asinine fitness functions? Well, Mung is engaged in abject definition lawyering, hoping that he can find some scheme that technically qualifies as “cumulative selection” but nevertheless fails to locate the target in a reasonable time. In this case he is trying to find a fitness function that satisfies the criterion “rewards proximity to the target” while still causing the program to fail.

What he is too dim to realize is that his entire project is predicated on a simple logic error. No one has claimed that cumulative selection always succeeds. So even if schemes using those idiotic fitness functions actually did qualify as “cumulative selection”, their failure to find the target wouldn’t show what Mung wants it to show.

If were smarter, he would have realized that you don’t need to concoct Mungish fitness functions in order to cause cumulative selection to fail. You can do it via much simpler interventions, like setting the mutation rate to an extremely small value.

The problem (for Mung) is stark and obvious: the fact that cumulative selection can fail in some cases does not mean that it fails in all, and it doesn’t mean that Weasel fails to demonstrate the power of cumulative selection.

(the asterisk is a note that Joe F. pointed out the same thing)

This kills the creature/population. /s

Rumraket introduces a relevant and related concept when he responds to a question from colewd (smoothness of landscape)

Obviously if you’re selecting towards the same phrase with a smooth hill to climb, the chance of convergence is one hundred percent. Interestingly, this is why convergence happens in nature. You’ll note how both fish and dolphins have that typical hydrodynamic torpedo-like shape with a pointy nose and long slim body. That’s an example of convergence and there’s a perfectly good, sensible explanation for it through natural selection.

Mung perks up at the sight of something to fling a turd at and responds.

Is that all that’s required to demonstrate the power of cumulative selection? A simple hill-climbing algorithm?

Wouldn’t it be amazing if nature consisted of smooth hills with targets at the top and a function to direct the genomes of living organisms to the tops of those hills?

petrushka adds ...

What would be really amazing is if you could demonstrate that people like Larry Moran or Jerry Coyne or even Dawkins have ever suggested that nature has smooth, easy to climb hills.

Mung flings again.

We have the Dawkins Weasel program which is designed to produce the result it does. It would probably fail to find the target phrase in far more scenarios than those in which it successfully finds the target phrase. Assume for the sake of argument that cumulative selection is still in operation in those scenarios. How would we know?

Or should we just declare that it is so and go home.

One wonders, did Mung just (fail to) relate and discover the reason for the extinction of 99+% of species that ever lived on the planet because they could not reach or maintain their position on the moving target of surviving in the environment? Who knew that the power of cumulative of selection or the combination of mutation + selection as related to a genomic pool has limits and is a cruel and harsh mistress?

I suppose if one is too intently focused on proving the map just doesn't work one might not realize it's connection, it's limits, and it's usefulness in understanding the real world.

(Apologies if I'm a bit off here or not explaining myself well. I have issues with that as it is and I'm a bit overtired. I'm just fascinated by watching people try as had as they can to go "nuh-uh" or intentionally try very hard to not understand. Go Tard.)

Edit: Yay! An edit button thingy! If it wasn't due to reaching 100 posts, my thanks to whoever flipped the bit.

Date: 2016/09/30 05:50:21, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 29 2016,20:33)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 29 2016,14:25)
Quote (JohnW @ Sep. 29 2016,11:32)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 29 2016,09:05)
The Ubiquitous Miracles Of Our Existence
September 29, 2016 Posted by William J Murray under Intelligent Design
1 Comment

i can't keep up with all the ID science these days

Moar science!

1  bFast  September 29, 2016 at 9:38 am
“I’m not aware of a god blatantly intervening in the world, as some people say happens.”

Hmmm. I was just out on a river hunting with a friend. One day our outboard motor refused to start. Both my friend and I are rather mechanical, so we worked on the problem. We found that we could get the motor to start if we had lots of throttle on. In fact, it would run fast very well. However, it would immediately die when we tried to slow it to an idle. This was a particular problem because you had to slow it to an idle to shift from neutral to drive.

Our mechanical sense cased us to conclude that the low speed jet in the carburetor was plugged. We decided to overhaul the carburetor in the field. However, we didn’t have sufficient tools to remove the carb so that we could work on it. We were hooped.

I said to my friend, “let me try something”. I prayed a quick prayer asking Jesus to fix the motor, and I pulled the cord. Vrooom. First pull. And the problem was gone forever.

I kinda agree with daveS. If my God didn’t sometimes blatantly intervene in my world, I really doubt that I would be one of his followers.

It was Satan who clogged that jet!

My money is on god clogging the engine because bfast was having unnatural desires towards his fishing buddy.

Date: 2016/10/12 14:27:15, Link
Author: Lethean
Over on the "Thread to discuss the 2nd presidential debate" thread ...

phoodoo October 10, 2016 at 2:31 pm

Kantian Naturalist,

But its not even possible to compare the worst things you can say about Hillary, with the worst things you can say about Trump.

If Hillary is a corporate shill, certainly trump is EVEN MORE of a big business shill. There is pretty much nothing Hillary is worse at than Trump, and I don’t particularly like her.

phoodoo October 11, 2016 at 1:12 am


I am not sure there is such a thing as a red state in this election. Imagine if Trump loses every single state. Wouldn’t that be a great thing for the Republican party going forward?

phoodoo October 11, 2016 at 3:56 am

Neil Rickert,

Of course it is exactly what I am saying.

It will teach them that their strategy of intolerance, and burn the country down to suit their own narrow interests of nationalistic cowardice is ultimately going to cause their own destruction more than anyone else’s.

Who is this reasonable person and what have they done with phoodoo ?

Date: 2016/10/12 14:42:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 11 2016,10:55)
enjoy this trip down memory lane:

Posted by: DaveScot | September 4, 2008 5:49 PM

You finally got one right, PZ. This IS how you will lose.

Even totally united behind Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 you couldn't beat a dumbass draft dodging reborn alcoholic George "Shrub" Bush and his snake-oil sidekick Dick Cheney of all people. That's pretty pathetic. This round you've got an even worse candidate that half of your own party thinks stole the nomination by cheating and dirty politics. Your party is shattered up the middle and you have the worst candidate in all the decades I've been paying attention. I knew Jack Kennedy and your nominee, PZ, is no Jack Kennedy.

Now the culture war is still on, the players are all the same on both sides, except this time we have an honest-to-God centrist war hero, even if he is an elitist beltway insider, and a little unheard of cutie, obviously a political savant, who in 30 minutes won the hearts and minds of every heretofore apathetic God fearing blue collar flyover family all across the nation and made them start caring about who wins this election not to mention is stealing a lot of the Hillary voters who wanted nothing more than a woman in the Whitehouse. If McCain wins then Palin, sooner or later, is going to become the first woman president of the United States as by the time she's up for election to the top spot there won't be any question of lack of experience. You are basically looking at teh American Margaret Thatcher. Get used to her. She's going to be in your face for the next 16 years. It's all over except for the tears and anger from your side that you were fucked yet again. Write that down.

Should have had a "spew alert" header at the top of this post.

Good grief, "obviously a political savant", my aching sides.

Is this why some say DaveScot is hiding from the internet to this very day ?

Date: 2016/10/27 01:10:11, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Bob O'H @ Oct. 26 2016,14:37)
Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!      
The paper says what it says. I’ll let the readers, and administrator, decide who is being forthright. If you persist in pestering me I will request you be banned for trolling.

Date: 2016/11/02 10:21:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ Nov. 01 2016,21:23)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Nov. 01 2016,18:22)
Batshit77 finds a fellow Enlightened Being to channel:            
,,, the question, rather, is why things don’t fall completely apart — as they do, in fact, at the moment of death. What power holds off that moment — precisely for a lifetime, and not a moment longer?

Remember, you have to explain why your body runs precisely as long as you live.  Precisely!  Not one minute longer or shorter!


The tide goes in.  The tide goes out...

I'm reminded of Jennifer Tilly's character Vicki in the movie Let It Ride. Vicki's sugar daddy is talking her up to Dreyfuss' character Trotter ...

Sugar Daddy: She has very long legs.

Vicki: Thanks.

Vicki (to Trotter as she adjusts her tight little red dress): They go from my ass all the way to the floor ... my legs.

Equally inexplicable.

Date: 2016/11/05 07:50:30, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Nov. 04 2016,16:58)
I have been thinking of doing a high-school textbook on ID theory, but have been waiting to see what Marks and Ewert come out with in January. My guess is that it will be too technical for the average reader, but I figure I’ll wait and see what it looks like.

Someone should mention to him that it is against the law to teach ID in school.

I worked up an outline of a few potential chapters for Johnny. Hat tip to a few previous comments in the thread.

Intelligent Design Mathematics

- Convoluted Large Odds Calculation (Deniability By The Numbers)
- On The Proper Widths Of Gaps And Goalpost Placement (Flexibility Is Your Friend)
- The Second Law of Thermal Dynamics (Boxers Or Briefs ?)
- FIASCO (It's Not Just An Acronym)

Irrelevant Darwinist Materialistic "Science"

- Why Common Descent Doesn't Matter (Topic Avoidance And You Part I)
- Why The Age Of The Earth Doesn't Matter  (Topic Avoidance And You Part II)
- Why What The Designer Did Where And When Doesn't Matter (Topic Avoidance And You Part III)
- Why The Identity Of The Designer Doesn't Matter (Shhhhh, It's Jesus)

ID Jobs Of The Future

- Lecturing (How To Travel Light And Survive On The Church Circuit)
- Journal Editing (How To Peer-Review And Edit Non-Existant Or Irrelevant Papers)
- Authoring Books (Out Of The Basement On To Amazon)
- Discovery Institute Fellow (Hey, It Could Happen)

Supplemental Chapter By Guest Author BA77 PhDud

- Quantum Under The Shroud (Scripture, YouTube, and You)

Date: 2016/11/13 17:38:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Jebus, please tell me Arrington didn't name it after the character Hank Rearden from that opus of one dimensional bullshit that's beloved by shallow man-children everywhere, Atlas Sharted.

That's kinda like naming your incredibly average white penis "Spike" back in highschool thinking your girlfriend and the boys in the locker room would be impressed.

6372 W. Coal Mine Ave. #411, Littleton, CO 80123
Tel:  720-236-2889

Date: 2016/11/16 13:50:40, Link
Author: Lethean
I see "Frankie" showed up over at Curmy's place recently and tried slow playing his one note song. He didn't last long.

Now he's over at the Skeptical Zone on the OoL thread.

Who puts up with his BS anymore? Hunter? Anyone?

Poor chubs must be awful ronery these days.

Date: 2016/12/09 19:18:20, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 08 2016,23:09)

And yet when the Agent causality, i.e. God, of Theists is rightly let ‘back’ into the picture of physics, as the Christian founders of modern science originally envisioned, (Newton, Faraday, Maxwell, and Planck among others), then an empirically backed unification between Quantum Theory and General Relativity is readily achieved by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from death:

If only Einstein had known this.


Sometimes you eat the cartoon, sometimes the cartoon eats you.

Date: 2017/01/07 13:57:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2017,00:25)
Q' makes sense. dQ makes sense. What the fuck is d'Q?


Date: 2017/01/16 11:40:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Woodbine @ Jan. 15 2017,21:08)

ID isn’t a mechanistic claim but design is a mechanism.

Takes me back to the good ol' days of  ice ≠ water.

Date: 2017/01/23 22:19:54, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Jan. 21 2017,11:30)

I like the title of that page:          
                                                                 A Kairosfocus Briefing Note:
GEM 06:03:17; this adj. 06:12:16 - 17 to 08:09:28 further 09:01:04 - 12:06:01, &12: 09:29 Ver 1.7.2c

I think those numbers are ID science or something.

It reminds of that early 70s movie Westworld. Not long into the movie while they are flying the futuristic hover plane thing into the resort there are interspersed cuts of the resorts control room. The cuts show operators sitting at "futuristic" computer stations and communicating with each other with all sorts of random numbers and the occasional technical term. " Adjust to *thing* to *random number point number* "It was all complete jibbery nonsense of course and written to sound computery~sciencey.

Date: 2017/02/08 19:37:34, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Jan. 07 2017,16:49)
So d'Q = de Lancie?

Pulling this forward because i tripped over some nifty fun facts on the way here.

I saw a TIL post over on Reddit that reads ...

TIL that when American soldiers came to the house of Richard Strauss in 1945, the famous German composer identified himself: "I am Richard Strauss, the composer of Rosenkavalier and Salome." One of the soldiers was a musician, and placed a sign at the home so others would not bother him.

From the [Wikipedia] article:

   In April 1945, Strauss was apprehended by American soldiers at his Garmisch estate. As he descended the staircase he announced to Lieutenant Milton Weiss of the U.S. Army, "I am Richard Strauss, the composer of Rosenkavalier and Salome." Lt. Weiss, who was also a musician, nodded in recognition. An "Off Limits" sign was subsequently placed on the lawn to protect Strauss. The American oboist John de Lancie, who knew Strauss's orchestral writing for oboe thoroughly, was in the army unit, and asked Strauss to compose an oboe concerto. Initially dismissive of the idea, Strauss completed this late work, his Oboe Concerto, before the end of the year.

Someone spots the name....

John de lancie? I knew Q was real! Timeless

The OP then says ...

His father.

And wouldn't ya know, from the Wiki on the "oboist John de Lancie" (who after the war went on to become principal oboe of the Philadelphia Orchestra for some 23 years) ...

This article is about the oboist. For his son, the actor, see John de Lancie.

Who is, of course, Q.  Cool beans.

Date: 2017/02/23 09:04:24, Link
Author: Lethean
I used to have that fear crop up occasionally. I finally overcame it by imagining that the duck was too busy banging Lea Thompson at that moment to care about whatever it was I was doing.

Date: 2017/04/17 20:40:05, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ April 15 2017,17:16)
Brave and AtBC do not play well together.

Date: 2017/05/13 16:16:11, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ April 17 2017,21:07)
Quote (Lethean @ April 17 2017,21:40)
Quote (stevestory @ April 15 2017,17:16)
Brave and AtBC do not play well together.

I'm not complaining, it's a beta release, but javascript buttons and dialog boxes are not working well yet. So for instance I can't post links here using the buttons. That's why i'm using the 'code' boxes. Still it's quite fast, though it has slowed down a bit after 2 weeks. I might need to clear some hidden cache or something.

Hehe, I was just riffin' on the reference and had no idea what you meant by Brave until you explained a bit and I did a little searching to flesh it out. And for what it's worth (not much I'd imagine) I kinda dig the code box thing even though it's a bug's byproduct. While URL shorteners are a nice workaround here, it's still nice to read the URL before launching it as it sometimes provides a bit more context to the quotes. Having the code box I'm able click once to highlight > right click > open URL in new tab.

And apologies for dragging this old-ass post forward for such a belated reply. My body decided to let me know that I have a genetically acquired autoimmune disease that happily turned me into a complete trainwreck for a few weeks. Praise the designer.

Date: 2017/05/13 16:23:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (paragwinn @ May 12 2017,19:53)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 12 2017,02:40)
(55 kairosfocus May 12, 2017 at 3:03 am)
CMOW, it is quite obvious that RVB8 is an agit prop operative. If we take him at his cumulative word, he is testing manipulative points for his masters in some faction or other of the Chinese state apparatus who are terrified of the surging rise of the Christian Faith in China, and of wider religion.

Putin made rvb8 do it.

BREAKING FAKE NEWS: The head of China's State Security Bureau of Investigation was fired today after one of his agit-prop operatives was unmasked in an intellectually distinguished Internet forum by none other than a lone defender of Montserrat's Constitutional principles and of Slippery Slope Preventism, Groton McMulletts. The former security official is now fulfilling his duties as a reserve naval officer in the South China Sea for an indefinite period.

Just wait till McMulletts discovers the ugly truth underneath it all. That what this is really all about is keeping the cost down on MAGA hats, crappy ties, and Ivanka's shitty clothing and accessory line.

The Spice Must Flow

Date: 2017/05/13 21:09:00, Link
Author: Lethean
Yeah, it's probably unconnected spam, but on the other hand with the "WannaCrypt" worm raging across the planet and toasting unpatched and out of lifecycle operating systems I wouldn't go poking at any of those links unless you are certain you're secure against it.

Although security updates for this were in place something like two months ago for currently supported software, Microsoft just released a complete set hotfixes even for XP, Win8, and Server 2003. I'll post a link to the BW.

Date: 2017/05/13 21:30:54, Link
Author: Lethean
I assume most of us have already heard of the WannCrypt worm that was been causing havoc in something like 74 countries with the bulk of the infected systems being run on either out of lifecycle operating systems and anything below Win 10 that isn't up to date in the last couple of months. This is a ransomware worm that targets all document files on the infected drive and encrypts them. Once completed it forces a blue screen and reboot followed up with a message that to recover your files you must pay a certain amount of bitcoin to have your files decrypted.

Microsoft has released hotfixes for both currently supported systems and "out of lifecycle" systems including XP (x86 - x64 - embedded) Win 8 (x86 - x64 - Win 8.1 is supported by auto update) and Server 2003. Here's the link to the Microsoft Technet page with links to more information and directly download the patches for the "out of lifecycle" systems.


Customer Guidance for WannaCrypt attacks

MSRC TeamMay 12, 20170

Microsoft solution available to protect additional products

Today many of our customers around the world and the critical systems they depend on were victims of malicious “WannaCrypt” software. Seeing businesses and individuals affected by cyberattacks, such as the ones reported today, was painful. Microsoft worked throughout the day to ensure we understood the attack and were taking all possible actions to protect our customers. This blog spells out the steps every individual and business should take to stay protected. Additionally, we are taking the highly unusual step of providing a security update for all customers to protect Windows platforms that are in custom support only, including Windows XP, Windows 8, and Windows Server 2003. Customers running Windows 10 were not targeted by the attack today.

Details are below.


Code Sample

Date: 2017/05/20 10:50:40, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ May 19 2017,09:46)
Quote (Henry J @ May 18 2017,22:52)
"Fine-tuning"? Doesn't that just mean there's a bunch of physical constants that have to be close to their observed values for life as we know it to exist?

I'm not sure though if that should read "life as we know it" or "any life at all". The later has to be much trickier to evaluate.

I don't think 'fine-tuning' makes any sense.

Anti-tuning makes just as much sense. Only an incredibly small portion of the universe can support life? Out of 100 elements only one can be the basis of life? It took 4 billion years of evolution before intelligent life? How do you guess the probabilities? You can't, it's all naval-gazing bullshit.

Some physicists love playing philosopher, doesn't mean they know what they're talking about.

Indeed, puddle gazing even. I forget who I first saw point it out, and I'm probably not going to do that author any justice, but what they are essentially saying with these arguments is that their invisible friend must have made the universe exactly this way and only this way works. Without admitting this implied assertion, they are presuming to know the limitations of their friend, who they will happily tell you in entirely different context is omnipotent. This is the only way they can make their number based argument from incredulity fly.

Once you start admitting your invisible friend could make life based on any other element or tune the universe for life in any other way (which at this point is some infinitesimally small percentage of the whole, within a thin layer of atmosphere on one spheroid ball of rock, that is known) you've admitted that all your calculations are based on an argument from ignorance and are pretty much futile. Just like all the others that presume to exclude all *cough* known *cough* natural processes and wind up with "designermusthavedidit". Which is so amazingly successful as a science that Dembski said "fuck it, I have better things to do".

It's a steaming pile of disingenuous bullshit.

Date: 2017/05/21 00:32:38, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 20 2017,22:19)
Douglas Adams.

Ah, yeah. I knew that, the puddle part. It's my fault for lack of clarity there. I meant the overall point I was trying to convey about the the fine-tuning argument being disingenuous I picked up from someone else.

I wish I could recall who or where I read it because they certainly framed or described it better than I was able, I'm sure.

As an aside, wouldn't it be nice to be some sort of advanced photosynthesis type creature living on sunlight and shit whatnot instead of stuffing food in your choke hole, advanced turd processing like an earthworm, and screwing with your pee parts? The designer is fond of beetles and butt custard apparently.

(edit: {s} because I actually meant that figuratively, not literally, lol)

Date: 2017/05/22 19:09:42, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ May 22 2017,13:26)
Is anybody else getting warnings about Uncommon Descent's security certificate not being trusted?

I'm not in Firefox, but I don't now how useful that is beyond knowing that it complains when the certificate is expired or a sites SSL configuration is faulty.

Date: 2017/05/22 19:19:06, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Jkrebs @ May 22 2017,18:44)
I've been discussing with kairosfocus (if you can call it that) whether objective morality exists, or not.

I think kf's general argument can be summed up with the following train of logic.

If X then Y
I don't like the consequences if Y is true,
Therefore, not X.

Reminds me of the complimentary complaint that if god doesn't exist then there is no ultimate justice. That means criminals and sinners won't receive their due course so there is no reason for anyone to behave. So people should believe there is a god or bad things will happen therefore atheism is bad.

Also, I am pretty much ok with those that make this kind of argument continuing to cram their butts into pews on a weekly basis if that's what it takes for them to not be all rapey and murdery, etc.

Date: 2017/06/17 05:20:52, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Jkrebs @ June 13 2017,11:03)
The whole thread has been pretty interesting. From the same person that gave us the fact that angels have no gender, StephenB tells us the following aspects of natural moral law, in case you needed to know and were worried about possible immoral behavior.

jdk: "Is oral sex immoral, … even limited to married couples?"

SB: "Most moral theologians say oral sex is moral only as foreplay and only if it is mutually acceptable, but it is not moral if brought to completion. That is because every sexual act, to be moral, must be open to the transmission of life upon completion. Some moral theologians say it is completely wrong regardless of context."

jdk: "Masturbation?"

SB: "Same conditions as above. Immoral as a completed act. Always wrong outside of marriage."

jdk: "Do those acts “self-evidently fulfill or conform our nature”, or not?"

SB: "The behavioral standards for the natural moral law are not always self evident. They are often the product of moral reflection and reasoned analysis. According to the natural moral law, the purpose of sex is to create a unitive bond of love between husband and wife and to procreate. The point is that the unitive function cannot be morally separated from the procreative function. Only on those conditions can the good of both spouses be preserved. Everything turns on purpose."

Date: 2017/06/21 01:51:59, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ June 19 2017,16:36)
At Forbes: Gravitational waves detection was all just noise, some researchers say

June 19, 2017 Posted by News under Cosmology, Intelligent Design, Physics

wtf would that have to do with ID?

Oh yeah, ID is just science-bashing.

Heh, yeah. In the the case of gravitational waves there's a whole host of cranks, religious and otherwise, that desperately want the detection signals to be noise or proven to be a conspiracy. The desires range from Einstein being wrong, black holes don't exist, big bang is a lie ... therefore there's a conspiracy to fabricate evidence for a multiverse/big bang/an old universe. (and as always the mainstream scientists are in it to keep a job or even better for the grants, obscene salaries, a Nobel, the Ferraris and Lambos)

The last item, old universe, is probably most appealing to "News". I don't claim to understand nor recall the explanation of the situation, but apparently YEC Hartnett in his physics twisting apologetics had either implied or asserted that gravitational waves would never be detected. I recall this post where Sal polished Hartnett's nuts over there including the wonderful flourish of quoting Conservapedia.

That signal (GW170104) was verified three weeks ago making it the third detection. I can't read the Forbes article for the paywall so I don't know what the criticism is.

(edit- removed the part where I mistakenly thought that UD article was from January and claimed this was moot.)

Date: 2017/06/24 02:30:50, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ June 22 2017,07:11)
At age 42, Wright converted from atheism to Christianity, citing a profound religious experience with visions of the "Virgin Mary, her son, and His Father, not to mention various other spirits and ghosts over a period of several days", and stating that prayers he made were answered. In 2008, he converted to the Roman Catholic Church, of which he approvingly said: "If Vulcans had a church, they'd be Catholics."

Wikipedia - John C Wright

His picture is worth the visit to Wikipedia.  A very Serious Author who wears a Serious Author beard and a Serious Author hat, all circa 1953.

This man was made for Uncommon Descent.

Absolutely, he's been quite popular for years over at FSTDT.

I wonder how he reconciles being Vulcan Catholic and rejecting evolution. He posts over on Vox Popoli's blog from time to time and I'm pretty sure he was involved with all the Sad Puppy or Tard Puppy (whatever) anti-feminist BS that was trying to subvert some awards. Hugo Awards maybe? (again, whatever)

A year ago at Vox's place ...

My claim is that rightwingers have not blocked or opposed any legitimate scientific research since the dawn of time. Nearly all the major scientific advances were make by Churchmen, or by men at universities founded by the Church, and the Church is the most conservative institute there is.

Leftist are antiscience by definition: Marx defined Marxism as the rebellion against the science of economics, and the promise that you could get something for nothing; Lysenko in Russia, lya Ivanovich Ivanov and his human-ape hybrids, Leftwing nutbag Hitler driving Einstein out of Germany and into America's conservative arms, all, all, all are examples of Leftists substituting politics for science and calling it science.

The idea that conservatives are antiscience is comical. And the only argument to be found is that we don't want tax money wasted on teaching junk science like Darwinism in school, or to fund anti-Second-Amendment propaganda by Leftists?

and Friday before last ...

But technically, Darwinism is not science, because it rests on non-empirical assumptions about matter not open to empirical proof or disproof. You cannot hand me a telescope and show me the apeman giving birth to man, or man giving birth to superman. You cannot even breed peas and make them into something other than peas.


ETA - Whoops, missed that there was a whole page left where this was already sorted. Sorry.

Date: 2017/07/12 20:15:03, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Asnathe @ July 12 2017,20:05)
bonjour, je voulais savoir si quelqu’un avait une astuce pour tomber enceinte rapidement.

Yes, though it's not much of a "trick" per se.

A copious amount of unprotected coitus with a member of the opposite sex should do the trick.

HTH and good luck.

Date: 2017/07/25 22:37:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Don't worry Joe. You'll be ok.

Date: 2017/08/07 09:39:36, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (KevinB @ Aug. 07 2017,09:16)
Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 07 2017,07:52)
Gordon's personal blog is even worse than UD, if you can believe it. Lance Wallnau &c.

It's UD without the leaven of Denyse.

(I was trying to construct a "yeast infection" reference, but I came to the conclusion that there was a risk of it being misconstrued as a misogynistic dig.)

Good call. That might have smelled a little fishy.

Date: 2017/08/07 10:03:28, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Aug. 07 2017,09:09)

Date: 2017/08/15 01:54:38, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 14 2017,12:13)
EricMHAugust 14, 2017 at 10:11 am
Self consciousness cannot have a material explanation by definition since no material thing can contain itself.

claiming you win by definition is The New Hotness over at UD.

In other news, they're still a handful of poorly-educated losers yamming on a website, to no effect.

I could be wrong but I suspect Eric worked this out after hearing about the failure of Flik's tunnel within a tunnel project.

Date: 2017/08/18 08:39:13, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Bob O'H @ Aug. 18 2017,02:30)
OK, which one of you is polistra, and which one EricMH? This is too good to be taken out of context.



J-MacAugust 18, 2017 at 5:42 am


The simple fact is that Islam is closer to Natural Law than Christianity.

Really? Can you elaborate on this fact?

How do you know Christianity is not as close the natural law as Islam? Have you examined closely the 38.000 christian denomination known in the world today ?

Surely some Christians somewhere must be doing it right!

Having observed J-Mac for a while over at TSZ (until I could take no more of the J-Mac/phoodoo/Mung shitshow) it's quite clear he's a walking talking parody.

Also, this.

Date: 2017/09/08 12:10:16, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 07 2017,07:08)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 06 2017,21:27)
Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 06 2017,13:04)
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 06 2017,01:54)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 05 2017,10:45)
Mullings is definitely over his grieving period.
and De Ole Dawg is back as well. The time is nigh.

No updates to The Montserrat Reporter today.  Looks like UD will have to do without KF until they get the power back.

From Barry:
As many of our readers know, one of our most valued and prolific contributors lives on Montserrat.

Maybe he could put in a word with the big cheese upstairs for a special dispensation for Gordo so he can have an interwebs connection  so he can give us the csi of Irma.

IIRC proponents of ID claim that Intelligent Design doesn't necessarily mean their chosen supernatural deity, right?

ETs are totes a legitimate possibility? An artist's rendition of KF's prayers answered ...

Date: 2017/10/20 17:32:12, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Antoniobrore @ Oct. 20 2017,01:26)
гост на паронит  
паронит общего назначения
паронит вредность  
<a href="http://<snip>/catalog/paronit/">паронит сертификат </a>
hoOzbnu17659 672N

guest on paronite
common paronite
paronite harmfulness
<a href="http://<snip>/catalog/paronit/"> paronite certificate </a>

Well, at least it's not viagra sales or the odd question about fertility this time around. Some sort of odd phishing attempt or test of automating account creation or..?


a gasketing material that is produced by compressing a blend of asbestos, natural rubber, and powdered constituents. Paronite is supplied in sheet form and is used for sealing joints that operate in the following mediums: water and steam under a pressure of 5 meganewtons per square meter (MN/ m2), or 50 kilograms-force per square centimeter, and at a temperature of 450°C; petroleum and petroleum products at 7 MN/ m2 and 200°C and at 4 MN/m2 and 400°C; and such substances as liquid and gaseous oxygen and ethyl alcohol.

In order to increase its mechanical strength, paronite is sometimes reinforced with wire mesh, in which case it is called ferronite.

Date: 2017/10/20 17:42:39, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (k.e.. @ Oct. 20 2017,01:10)
Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 20 2017,00:57)
Sounds like they might have a bone to pick with paleontologists?

Yes, and they sniffle at palynology.

Which is odd given that Adam was allegedly created from dust and the "particles that are strewn" could be construed as humanity under that scenario.

Date: 2017/10/21 03:21:16, Link
Author: Lethean
Oh.  Bone.  Sniffle.

Right over my head.     :(

Date: 2017/10/26 09:04:07, Link
Author: Lethean
If anyone reading this happens to be on the island of Montserrat could you swing by KF's and check the middle of his back for a pull string?

The ol' friendly pat on the back ruse should do the trick.

Maybe leave behind some sort of evo-mat agitprop device.

Thanks in advance.

Date: 2017/11/01 04:13:48, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Nov. 01 2017,00:04)
KF continues to amaze.  (This is in a Wikipedia bashing thread if you're wondering at Gordon's sudden interest in encyclopedias.)        
56 kairosfocus October 31, 2017 at 4:36 am

F/N: A capital example of unintended irony in the cited article; regarding encyclopedias as reflecting and perhaps helping shape radical secularist agendas . . . while missing out the notorious evidence on where the case in point ended up:

In Europe, the quest to compile a modern encyclopedia started with the Enlightenment in the 18th century. (Immanuel Kant coined a fitting Latin motto for the movement: “Sapere aude,” or “Dare to know.”) French Enlightenment thinkers like Francis Bacon and Denis Diderot began compiling ambitious encyclopedias, inspiring others throughout France, Germany, England, Switzerland and the Netherlands. The religious ruling class’s discomfort with the effort only helped its financial feasibility; there was an obvious market for these massive collections, often published in numerous volumes, for an increasingly secular middle-class. The first volume of Encycopedie was sold in 1751 to 2,000 subscribers, who would go on to receive the entire twenty-eight-volume set. Notable revolutionary thinkers such as Voltaire, Rousseau, and Montesquieu were involved in the editing of the work and several even ended up in prison. Only 17 years after the publication of the last volume in 1772, the French revolution began, leading to perhaps the most secular state in human history.

That trend toward rationality and enlightenment was endangered long before the advent of the Internet.

I see you one French Revolution and raise you one guillotine. Multiply by a generation of expansionist wars under colours of liberty, equality, fraternity. Not to mention, modern Dictatorship as pioneered by Napoleon.


Channeling his inner Gaulin there.

Date: 2017/11/05 03:41:02, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 04 2017,07:15)
My making it look so easy is a part of what makes this a greater challenge than what you were expecting. So be thankful Darwinian territory is still all yours to rule. I'm only concerned with the scientific turf for intelligent causes of one kind or another. Your having to get out of the way of this much head butting alpha-ness tested model/theory frees it to boldly go to the only place left, where you can say deserves whatever stomping around happens after that out there. The Power of science does this way work in your favor, may the force be with you.

Yeah, Wesley, so be grateful his alpha-ness Gary is magnanimous enough to leave some science crumbs for you.

Date: 2017/11/05 17:44:54, Link
Author: Lethean

Have you changed the name of your "theory" ?

The name of your "lab" ?

Is a new sig in the works ?

Date: 2017/11/06 17:33:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 05 2017,18:46)
Quote (Lethean @ Nov. 05 2017,17:44)

Have you changed the name of your "theory" ?

The theory that applies to the premise of the "theory of intelligent design" is just one of many things. There is even the cognitive science based explanation of the origin of the "scientific method":

Quote (Lethean @ Nov. 05 2017,17:44)
The name of your "lab" ?

The name is as always "Intelligence Design Lab" because it exists to make it possible to design virtual critters that have what is called "Intelligence". Its abbreviation might be somewhat ambiguous, but all relating to "theory of intelligent design" is dependent on that model. Otherwise there is no testable mechanism to explain the so named "intelligent cause" of living things.

Quote (Lethean @ Nov. 05 2017,17:44)
Is a new sig in the works ?

My signature line still gives me the creeps too, but at least we are now on the same page in regards to what it says exactly.

Date: 2017/11/29 11:31:59, Link
Author: Lethean

Date: 2017/11/29 15:42:42, Link
Author: Lethean
FSTDT notices Sal's handiwork over on r/creation.

"Question: What convinced you that evolution is false?"

The first doubts were as I described here.

I then realized dead things don't come to life by themselves, so life needed a miracle to start. And if there was a miracle there was a Miracle Maker. If the origin of life was by a miracle, then it became possible to consider the origin of species (actually major taxonomic divisions) was a result of a miracle. Michael Denton's book Evolution a Theory in Crisis (it's a pain to read) pretty much destroyed most reason to believe in evolution.

The more I studied biology and science, and the more I studied real scientific disciplines like physics, I realized evolutionary biology is a sham science. Privately, many chemists and physicists (whom I consider real scientists) look at evolutionary biologists with disdain. Evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne himself admitted: In Science's pecking order, evolutionary biology lurks somewhere near the bottom, far closer to [the pseudo science of] phrenology than to physics.

Then I look at the behavior of defenders of evolution. Many of them hate Christians and act unethically and ruin people's lives like Ota Benga and personal friends like professor of biology Caroline Crocker and persecute Christian students. They tried to deliberately create deformed babies in order to just prove evolution. They tried to get me expelled from graduate school when I was studying physics, merely because I was a Christian creationists. It was none of their business, but they felt they had the right to ruin my life merely because I believed in Jesus as Lord and Creator.

I then realized many evolutionists (not the Christian evolutionists) are Satanically inspired because of their psycho evil hatred. So I realized even more, they are not of God, and therefore not on the side of truth. They promote "The Lie" because the father of Darwinism is the Father of Lies. Darwin himself referred to certain Christian doctrines as "damndable".

Sal goes on to link articles from ICR about evolutionists desiring to "create deformed babies to prove evolution" and something about the "human/mice chimeras he's cited in his junk DNA research" with a touch of the obligitory Sanford ...

In fact a pioneer genetic engineer, John Sanford, rejects evolutionary theory. So being able to genetically engineer something shows intelligent design is possible, it doesn't prove evolution.

And with a final flourish ...

What good has evolutionary theory brought to the human condition? So if Darwinism is true, it appears to be worthless and damaging, and if it is false, it is worthless and damaging and false.

I've not known one single person who became a better person because he came to believe he was the product of random processes and was descended from a monkey. NOT ONE!

However, I do know of people who cleaned up their lives and became better husbands and fathers and human beings when they realized through real science they were created in the image of God to be moral creatures.

An example:

So I judge and ideaology by the fruit it bears, and Darwinsim has only born evil, nothing good on balance. Darwinism is an ideology, it isn't science.

The particular thread quickly "devolves" into the standard issue apologetics of evolution being the impetus of the Holocaust and Communism, naturally.

Slime is as slime does.

ETA: linky missing from the FSTDT post

Date: 2017/11/29 21:42:13, Link
Author: Lethean
I couldn't say myself, but her name is Emma Rose and she's from ...

Penzance?  co-inky-dink?  I think not.

Date: 2017/12/08 07:54:59, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ Dec. 07 2017,15:48)
19  J-Mac  December 6, 2017 at 7:19 pm
I have to admit, that gender identity issue are very hard to judge therefore I refrain from doing so…
I believe that the majority of those people need to be helped and not to be judged…

When I’m confused about issues like that I always ask myself: What would Jesus do? Or what would apostle Paul or Peter do?
Can you tell?

Barry knows!
22  Barry Arrington  December 6, 2017 at 9:05 pm
J-Mac@ 19:
“Can you tell?”

One thing I can tell you for certain. If a man claimed to be a woman, Jesus, Paul and Peter would not join in that lie.

Jesus would agree with Barry, of course.  Jesus always agrees with Barry.


I can't speak for Jesus but my money is on the other two telling Barry to eat a large bag of mixed genitalia.

Date: 2017/12/11 22:48:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 11 2017,15:16)
Quote (Ptaylor @ Dec. 10 2017,01:50)
I don’t normally laugh at typos; everybody makes them. I make exceptions for UD though. From StephenB’s current Biologos thread:
47   December 8, 2017 at 8:35 pm

First hand experience: Biologos will block users that pose too much of an intelectual challenge to their Darwinist dogma.
That’s right, they don’t like people who use their branes.
UD link

StephenB December 8, 2017 at 11:10 pm,

I am not surprised. Inasmuch as they fear the intellectual scrutiny from those at this website, it makes sense that they would bully those who take it to them at their house.

Typical example of their fear:  "Aieeeee!!  We're being attacked by the geniuses from Uncommon Descent!!!  They're going to beet us up with there branes again!!!  Aieeeee!! Aieeeee"

It's cute when they think anyone really cares all that much about their tree fort beyond the chuckles they provide.

Date: 2017/12/14 13:13:44, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 14 2017,08:40)
Headlined by Mullings:
God as a necessary, maximally great, endless being vs. the challenge to an actual infinity

Nothing but science

Date: 2017/12/15 00:07:46, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Dec. 14 2017,14:40)
Fills holes up to infinity? So is that holey, or un-holey?

I'll admit that is wholly confusing.

Date: 2017/12/16 09:56:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Anyone who has bothered to read the OT knows you don't burn your kids alive.

You drown them.

Then when they are dead you burn them.


(this is what a necessary, maximally great, endless being does anyway)

Date: 2017/12/19 00:43:37, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 18 2017,20:01)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 18 2017,19:48)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 18 2017,16:43)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 18 2017,15:50)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 18 2017,10:17)
UD’s motto and raison d’être is “serving the intelligent design community.”

If you are a member of that community and have enjoyed our services this year, please consider a year-end donation to help defray our costs of operation.  We run on a shoe-string budget (just ask our pathetically underpaid but nevertheless intrepid and indefatigable News Desk), but we do have expenses.

Please click on that “Donate” button.  UD is a 501©(3) organization and gifts are tax deductible in the US.

Please Think of UD When Your Allocating Year-end Giving

It would be cool if everyone donated $0.01 on a credit card so they would get charged the $0.10 fee for every credit transaction. :)

But then you'd have to give them your real name and CC info so no, forget it.  :(

It is very telling that whenever Barry posts an OP, KF and the other sycophants are quick to leave comments in support of whatever he said. But when he asks for money...chirrup, chirrup, chirrup

Why don't they ask The Designer for money?

Because ID is not about the designer. Didn’t you get the memo?

I think it's ok to discuss as long as we don't talk about the Designer's currency, when the Designer's transaction occurred, and where the Designer filled out the wire transfer form.

Date: 2017/12/23 17:17:44, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 22 2017,19:55)
Concerning the word “diversity,” I will leave you with Indigo Montoya:  “You keep using that word.  I do not think it means what you think it means.”

I don't think Inigo is spelled the way you think it is.

Indigo, at last able to confront the six course meal, defiantly proclaimed "Prepare to dine!"

Date: 2018/01/22 17:57:52, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 22 2018,16:41)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Jan. 22 2018,13:55)
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 22 2018,15:09)
kairosfocus January 22, 2018 at 1:50 pm

definitionitis is an old complaint and too often a disease of the hyperskeptic that makes a mountain out of a mole-hill.

In the context, we have dealt with configuration spaces, which can be regarded as phase spaces in which momentum issues are not material.

In such spaces, we can see complexity through combinatorial explosion, e.g. for text strings. Since such strings can be used to describe a 3-d entity or a process etc, discussion on strings is WLOG.

Now, certain clusters of configs in the space of possibilities w [for omega the traditional symbol in stat thermo-d] may be observably and identifiably distinct e.g. by providing some structurally based function, such as the correctly assembled parts of a 6500 c3 fishing reel, my favourite case. Thus we have a cluster of states that are functional in some way and a vastly larger number of clumped or scattered states that will not function in any relevant way.

Of course the issue that relevant systems are self replicating is trotted out. the problem is we are looking at a cell-scale von Neuman kinematic self replicator, which is a further example of functionally specific complex orgtanisation and associated information that needs to be explained before it is allowed to drive all sorts of conclusions.

Yes, OOL must be solved first.

We then can ask ourselves, how do we get to such a cluster or island of function, a case e from a zone E within w.

If by blind chance and/or mechanical necessity, any reasonable assignment of probabilities of accessing cases c for a complex case such that c is in E, will be rapidly negligibly different from zero.

Exponential explosion of possibilities as n bits have 2^n possible configs. More complex cases can be reduced to bits.

This of course runs into challenges of numerically or algebraically defining probabilities and defining functional targets.

There is an answer: search challenge.

Long since put here at UD and elsewhere.

Once the space w is for at least 500 – 1,000 bits, we are looking at 3.27*10^150 – 1.07*10^301 possibilities.

The atomic resources and atomic interaction rates for the 10^57 atoms of the sol system for the low end and the 10^80 for the observed cosmos at the high end, are such that the fraction of selected possibilities c from w is negligibly different from 0.

So, it is maximally implausible to reach any reasonably isolated island of function in the space by blind search.

Plausibility fail, backed up by utter want of empirical observation.

And, search then is implied as sampling of subsets in config spaces relevant to our studies.

Here, as default, blindly by chance and mechanical necessity.

Try AA sequence space and codon space that targets it. We could try random bit strings for AUTOCAD, hoping to come up with a design for a reel, or we can try random ASCII text to get text from the corpus of literature in English or the like.

All these cases give the same result, for rather obvious reasons.

Likewise, we can then say oh we have some circumstance that searches are very effective as natural selection is held to be. Of course that is within islands of function, when we need to find the islands as the first problem, not incremental hill climbing within the island.

In any case as searches are effectively subsets, they come from the power set of the space and so are exponentially harder, space of size w has power set of size 2^w. Search for golden search is far worse than direct search per whatever atomic level interactions occur in sol system or observed cosmos.

Such cases of functionally specific complex organisation and associated information have just one well known causal source: intelligently directed configuration.

But the whole point is, after years and years you and others of like ilk still want to sweep that inconvenient fact off the board and so repeatedly rhetorically pretend we have not provided a serious answer.

It has been there, for decades.



DiEb January 22, 2018 at 2:31 pm
KF, you obviously have no idea how modern mathematics work.

I can haz numbars?

:p  :D  :O

kairosfocus January 22, 2018 at 3:30 pm
ET, I am positively trembling with fear of how my utter lack of intelligence, knowledge and ability to add up 2 and 3 have been exposed before the watching penumbra of animus sites. KF

From the ‘I know you are but what am I’ school of debate.

The Condensed KF:

1.  Here's a fishing reel.
2.  It looks really complicated.
3.  It was designed.
4.  Here's something biological.
5.  It looks even more complicated than the fishing reel.
6.  Therefore it was designed.
7.  In the event of awkward questions, start whining about ad hominem, red herrings, straw men....
8.  If that doesn't work, bang on about abortion, atheists, Muslims...
9.  If all else fails, Lewontin!

I've yet to see anything from Gordon which can't replaced by one, some or all of these steps.

TL;DR-ing it even further it's quite literally

In the context, we have dealt with configuration spaces, which can be regarded as phase spaces in which momentum issues are not material.

the junkyard

In such spaces, we can see complexity through combinatorial explosion

the 747

Plausibility fail

What remains is the rectally extracted "mathy" window dressing of incredulity regarding the alleged tornado.

Date: 2018/01/26 22:04:20, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2018,10:06)
Re, Seversky: “a lot of this reads like complaining because science isn’t coming up with observations and theories that you like . . . “
January 25, 2018 Posted by kairosfocus under agit-prop, opinion manipulation and well-poisoning games, Back to Basics of ID, Darwinist rhetorical tactics, Functionally Specified Complex Information & Organization, Intellectual freedom, Media Manipulation, Agit-Prop &/or Lawfare, Politics/policy and origins issues, Selective Hyperskepticism, warrant, knowledge, science and belief, You're a Nazi/fascist/racist/fundy/creationist etc

What the hell does Warrant have to do with this?

BRB, calculating the CSI of my sweet cherry pie.

Date: 2018/02/05 11:13:11, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 04 2018,19:03)
Molson BleuFebruary 4, 2018 at 10:02 am
“However, KF is certainly one who often debates fundamental ID topics, and not only more general issues.”

Very true. And I commend him for that. But he is also one of the first to be led off on hundred comment tangents by ID opponents. I have gone back over many of the recent long threads and he has been drawn into long arguments over things like abortion, pedophile rings, subjective morality, radical Islam, homosexuality, to just name a few. I’m sure that I am not the only one to have noticed this. I am certain that our opponents have. My friendly advice to him would simply be to refrain from taking the bait. And I don’t want to centre KF out because there are several others also guilty of readily taking the bait.

“It’s not clear why our more valid interlocutors should be so shy as soon as important biological ID topics are discussed, while they are often so ready to intervene about religion, morals, politics, and so on.”

I think that it is obvious. They take pleasure in seeing what types of non ID discussions they can draw ID proponents into. And given the fact that the majority of ID proponents are religious, they stick to the tried and true religious hot button topics. Things like abortion, morality, homosexuality, and the like.

The solution to this problem is simple. Don’t participate in every tangent or every provocation instigated by our opponents. Make them address ID on its merits rather than play into their distraction tactics. Sadly, I am not confident that this advice will be heeded.

IOW, UD would be ever so much more sciencey if it weren't for those meddling kids who make Barry and Gordo write up all those distracting OPs and tags.

If it weren't for them, we'd be talking about all the new advances in ID Science from the ground breaking pioneers Dembski and Behe. Or the latest recycled-third-book-whining about evolution from Wells or Meyer. Or Sewell's stunning new take on thermodynamics that demonstrates grass cannot grow. Or any of the other explosive research coming out of science journal number two, or three, or was it four?


Date: 2018/02/06 05:54:51, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 05 2018,21:00)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 05 2018,15:24)
That you would say such a thing is totally incredulous.

Or inconceivable, even.

Quickly! To the Cliffs of Insanity!

Date: 2018/02/07 16:56:24, Link
Author: Lethean
Looks like Barry is once again being stifled from discussing cutting edge ID science by the A-Mats.

Won't someone save him from having to quote television?

Date: 2018/02/09 22:02:00, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 09 2018,13:37)
More on memristors in action — including, crossbar networks and solving linear equation arrays
February 9, 2018 Posted by kairosfocus

I'm sure that's a high quality lecture right there, buddy.

That's a thread for GaGa if ever I saw one.

Date: 2018/02/09 22:07:43, Link
Author: Lethean
Gary, what's going on here?

Is UD pulling ahead in the ID game?

Moron memristors in action — including, crossbar networks and solving linear equation arrays

Date: 2018/04/10 09:35:08, Link
Author: Lethean
It seems that Robert, having conquered biology without breaking much of a sweat, has taken on physics. Apparently Einstein's work actually supports RECENT CREATION and none of that evolving crap.

RECENT CREATION might indeed be a better term then young earth. it might be a new term to rally around and be defined by.
People complained about the YEC moniker.
i have recently been reading, for the third time and still only understanding a third/to a half of it, Einsteins book on physics.
i found in it plenty of opportunity to correct ideas to the advantage of YEC.
the light distance issues and generally how things can be squeezed down into simple equations.
This works for a creation week concept and not a evolving physics universe.
In fact the whole physics things suggests, by probability, that biology also has more basic equations to its origins and relationships. nOt evolving but instead hard and fast laws at a certain stage. Then the seeming as if having a mind of its own.

By the way and by now. It should be a understood equation that yEC teaches the bible is true and so other options are not. Not reality but rather humans incompetent investigation into reality.
Science is the friend of truth and ruth is YEC friend. SO science is UEC friend. WE don't disagree with our friend but with others innaccurate portrayal of our friends conclusions.
Thats no April's fool trick either!

This is not a April fool story

(It's still difficult to visit PT. With the new format and loss of all the old discussion it's like someone shot a friend.)

Date: 2018/04/10 09:48:06, Link
Author: Lethean
The previous quote was browsing followup to Robert's post on the Sandwalk DK thread. This was fresh on my mind having recently seen it in the original and then Wells quote over in the UD thread ....

Quote (N.Wells @ Mar. 23 2018,18:00)
My apologies if I missed a mention of this, but there is an absolutely precious bit of prose over at Larry Moran's Sandwalk, at :

Larry posted an essay on the Dunning-Kruger effect, and the infamous Robert Byers immediately pontificated:

I agree with this whole concept. i think about it in origin issues and other issues of mankind.
Yet i don't think its complicated.


Less intelligent people are more sure complicated things are easy to understand and less able to see errors and errors in their own thinking.

One could stop right there and have sufficient cause to smile for a week.

But he continues in a second post:

I know enough and quite a lot about the main points of evoltionary biology. i learn things , great and small, like learning from this blog about random drift being a prioriity/or important in evolution as opposed to histircial conclusions on natural selection alone working on mutations. That would not be in the public domaine and so i know more then the average educated public.
I also know YEC/ID ideass which brings in more awareness of evolutionary ideas.

I deny I lecture experts. Nobody wants that tag.
Whats an expert? where is the experts?
a expert is just someone with knowledge in their subject and a complete knowledge.
anyone can master the conclusions from experts as they write them down.
so anyone can think about them and take them on.
i address only certain conclusions and yES am intellectually confident .
No excuse for thinking i know my tuff and can correct error.
Your thread was about people in thev weong more likely to be slow to correct their error or recognize it.
one could also be in the right and more likely know they are in the right after dealing with contentions for a long time.
its a curve on intelligence.
Its more then knowing the subject.

I couldn't write a better parody if I tried.

Truly, Robert is by far my favorite creationist.

Date: 2018/04/10 17:41:41, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ April 10 2018,17:10)
Quote (JohnW @ April 10 2018,17:10)
Quote (stevestory @ April 10 2018,08:35)
Quote (Lethean @ April 10 2018,10:48)
Truly, Robert is by far my favorite creationist.

He's mentally defective, but not in the hateful way so many of those dimwits are.

I don't have any links to hand, but he's a full-on racist.

You're right, I forgot about that. I amend my comment to something like, "He's not blatantly, ostentatiously hateful."

Yeah, I had pretty much forgotten those comments too. It's easy to do, what with his happy go lucky presentation in the face of getting slammed pretty hard with the criticism. Even when he's been outright teased the guy doesn't seem capable of delivering an once of anger.

So he reminds me of a puppy. Little to no bark, tail mostly on wag, occasionally soiling the carpet but difficult to be mad at him 'cause he's a puppy.

Date: 2018/04/17 07:40:37, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ April 11 2018,08:15)
Boy, they're full-blown global warming deniers over there, ain't they? No surprise. Global warming is basic chemistry. If we can't expect them to understand basic biology, basic chemistry is probly slightly harder, even.

CO2 ...  It's what plants crave.

Date: 2018/04/30 09:37:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Heh. So, I was firing up an old desktop I didn't care much about whose boot drive had crashed several years ago. I spent some time rooting around on the secondary drive where I had some golden oldies stored.

I had hoped to find what I thought was an archived copy of the good Dr. Dr. Dembski's “The Judge Jones School of Law” shockwave flash file with the original, very highbrow, fart audio. Sadly what I have is the edited version, sans flatulence.

Looking back at the two threads he posted about it on UD it seems the original was only up for about five days before he removed it and I hadn't caught it in time after all. I'd upload and share it for archival sake but that's been done already. (here it is on There is a snapshot on Dec 14th, 2006 which should have caught the original flash file, announced upload at UD on the 12th then announced removal on the 17th, but if you click to view it loads up a snap of the "/oe" flash page dated Jan 2nd. 2007

Sadly, OverwhelmingEvidence.Com has fallen down the memory hole, no doubt crushed under the overwhelming weight of all that evidence for the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory.

Anyway, in the pile of crap stored on that drive, that mostly will not be missed, like ever, I did find these. So the effort wasn't a total bummer. Hat-tip to the author. :)

(they were originally named brown1.jpg thru brown5.jpg, imgur archive is here)

Date: 2018/05/10 21:55:58, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ May 09 2018,10:58)
Judges are going to rule against creationism so that they can continue to wastefully tax you and "run out of town" creationist scientists?


IIRC Hubbard said that Xenu attempted to keep control of the universe or whatever by luring unwitting people into phony tax audits where the whole "froze them, dropped them into volcanoes from space planes that looked like DC-8s without propellers, dropped atomic bombs on them releasing their "thetans" (souls) which were then captured by floating-in-the-sky trap thingys and were then shown weird mind programming movies that are the stories of modern day religions so that they would be confused about the real truth and float around forever on Earth and plague mankind by attaching themselves to people and making them mentally and physically ill" thing happened.

I mean it's really not that much crazier than the whole snake and magic fruit plaguing mankind and, naturally, all biological life. I'm surprised it's taken this long for the streams to cross.

Pink Munky:" Wassa madda wit you, hat"?   (Beware the Obscene Dog)

Date: 2018/05/16 08:00:27, Link
Author: Lethean

Ondansetron, marketed under the brand name Zofran, is a medication used to prevent nausea and vomiting caused by cancer chemotherapy, radiation therapy, or surgery. It is also useful in gastroenteritis. It has little effect on vomiting caused by motion sickness. It can be given by mouth, or by injection into a muscle or into a vein.

Common side effects include diarrhea, constipation, headache, sleepiness, and itchiness. Serious side effects include QT prolongation and severe allergic reaction. It appears to be safe during pregnancy but has not been well studied in this group. It is a serotonin 5-HT3 receptor antagonist. It does not have any effect on dopamine receptors or muscarinic receptors.

Ondansetron was first used medically in 1990. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines, the most effective and safe medicines needed in a health system. It is available as a generic medication. The wholesale cost of the injectable form in the developing world is about US$0.10 to US$0.76 per dose. In the United States it costs about US$1.37 per tablet.


Date: 2018/05/21 21:19:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ May 21 2018,14:04)
MungMay 21, 2018 at 12:16 pm
God does not have testicles, so she wasn’t really aware of the consequences of that design.

BatShit77's gonna break his ctrl-V responding to that shit.  :p

Reminds me of a prolific commenter on the IMDb's message boards (yes, the movie site) who was a favorite of FSTDT for a while. Not only did he create some epic rants of tard whilst being trolled by the dozens, he used to insist that god has a penis. Not just any penis but a holy righteous penis.

Then came the announcement that IMDb was shutting down and removing the message boards. His meltdowns at the end were spectacular wherein he lamented all of his great arguments and all the information he spent years posting exposing the evils and falsehoods of evolutionists being deleted.

I can't for the life of me recall his name which is a bummer. I would've liked to look him up and quote him but apparently the database for FSTDT has been corrupted (or something) and has been down for a couple of weeks now with no news from the new admin/owner. Everyone is in the dark on the matter.  :(

Date: 2018/05/21 21:40:24, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Glen Davidson @ May 21 2018,14:37)

Seems like everyone is missing the obvious reason for external testicles.


This is equally valid if you assume mutation or design.

KF agrees @ 32:  "Display is probably right, as defects will be readily apparent. KF"


Glen Davidson

How else ya gonna keep 'em out of the temple ?

Levitcus 21

16 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

17 Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

18 For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

19 Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

20 Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21 No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

22 He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.

23 Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.

24 And Moses told it unto Aaron, and to his sons, and unto all the children of Israel.

Same goes for animal/burnt offerings in Leviticus 22. Totally not rad if the nads are bad.

So, if you design them on the inside you just set up your worshipers to fail and we all know that the Designer would never do that.

Or something.

Date: 2018/05/23 16:35:17, Link
Author: Lethean
For anyone whom it may concern, Patheos pulled the plug on Warren Throckmorton's blog two days ago without warning. So far they have only offered a generic "your blog does not fit our strategic objectives". One wonders what that might be given that the blogroll over there it a veritable cornucopia or varied beliefs (and none) even within their subcategories of faiths (and none). Warren is quite talented and had a strong following.

He speculates that it might be once of his most recent posts and notes, while making clear he is indeed speculating, that Joe Gregory (chairman of BN Media who owns Patheos) is a NRA megadonor and that he had recently posted an article criticizing the lack of any evidence for the repeated claim that the NRA specifically helped slaves arm and protect themselves after emancipation.

His article was in response to Diamond and Silk, those two idiotic supporters of Trump and Fox "contributors", who spoke at the NRA's last convention and parroted that claim which typically goes hand in hand with the rhetoric about how the evil Demon-crats not only want to take everyone's guns away but also want to keep blacks "on the plantation" by keeping them poor and dependent on handouts.

It seems the most plausible given the wide range of content that's available on Patheos, within which Warren fits right in. But, it's probably unlikely we'll hear the real reason and the whole thing is a shame really. Warren is one of the few Christian bloggers I actual admire and follow as his goal is not to cheerlead for his team but to clean up his own house.

Of course that there is another possibility, that his criticism and debunking of guys like Barton or the corruption and hypocrisy of other evangelical leaders might have finally got someone who supports one of them and had a string to pull and got Warren booted. It's a shame, I really like the guy.

Anyway, with someone's help he got his content moved to a new site. Of course, as is the problem with Discus and other "commenting content" services, it's unlikely that all the conversations and information contained in those comments will be recovered/transferred.

If one cares,

Date: 2018/05/23 17:29:50, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ May 23 2018,11:12)
Quote (Bob O'H @ May 23 2018,07:59)
If one of you it harry, you are an utter, utter bastard    
harryMay 23, 2018 at 8:05 am

bornagain77 @24,

BA, you should keep posting and, repeat posts for all the reasons you mentioned. In fact, I wish you would post some of your great material on other web sites. More than once I have been in an evolution debate with atheists on other sites and wished bornagain77 would start adding devastating-to-atheists posts to the discussion.

(if none of you is harry, then this doesn't apply, of course)

It appears to be Sarcasm Week at UD:
31  Origenes  May 23, 2018 at 9:16 am

The name “Bornagain77” before a post is a hallmark of top quality.

The real crime is that you can't properly fit it on a vanity plate.

Date: 2018/05/23 17:46:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Pretty sure at this point it's become a contest between Phillip and Gordon to see who can most violently drown whatever point they were trying to make in the deepest bathtub full of words, thereby achieving the most "intellectual depth".

Good grief.   ???

Date: 2018/05/30 12:41:46, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ May 30 2018,11:00)
It's working this morning. Although for a little while this morning, AtBC wasn't responding. When it finally gave an error message it said the database was busy.

Please stand by.

Date: 2018/06/04 20:24:33, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ June 04 2018,15:03)
Quote (JohnW @ June 04 2018,14:18)
I was going to quote the choicest parts of this, but to be honest, it's all choicest parts.  Noted thinker Robert Byers:
This was interesting and , for once, the music was not irritating.
i think i have seen things on him/by him on the discovery blog on evolutionism etc.
Saved means to be saved from hell/punishment.
I don’t like Born -again term. i like Evangelical Christian greatly better.
Born again was used once by Jesus and it means a DNA change that no longer allows one to do serious sin. otherwise someone BORN AGAIN could keep doing important sins in numbers or severity. once saved one can’t do evil.
Another reason why the most evangelical nations, especially The english ones, were, on a curve , more moral/kind.
I don’t know the faith of posters on all the forums/blogs on origin issues.
Yet one is right and the rest are not.
It doesn’t matter how CHRISTIAN one is if its the wrong equation for salvation. One will be just like the vast majority of born mankind.

Imagine the market for genetically engineered children that can’t sin.  Gene therapy to save sinners.  We could be rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

Reminds me of that pet care service for people that are raptured. Pay in advance so your pets don't starve or otherwise die from neglect when you are swept up to meet Big J in the sky.

That gave me the idea for Rapture Insurance™ and the regulatory requirement that any who believe they might be raptured and also, for example, drive or fly public or commercial transportation must carry said insurance to offset all the injury and death that will occur once they magically swoosh away from the controls.

* I had also considered accompanying regulations that require that Rapture Heads™ who work in a "pilot-copilot" scenario  must be teamed with someone who believes differently than they and placed in the subordinate position. However, I quickly realized there's no money in that and dropped further development of that idea.

Date: 2018/06/07 20:35:14, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (LarTanner @ June 07 2018,20:12)
Gee whiz--

Barry puts me in moderation simply for asking him why he qualified "killing a baby" with "for no other reason than that its mother is unmarried."

I wanted to know why he didn't just say "killing a baby" (or even just "killing") was evil, which I thought would have been easy for him to assert. After all, he knows objective morality so well.

It's almost as if something being objectively right or wrong depends on whether Barry agrees with the motivation behind it.

Coincidentally Barry's god happens to agree with Barry. At all times.


Date: 2018/06/09 06:41:31, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ June 08 2018,17:51)
For a change, it's not a dead scientist he's happy about this time (linky):
1  bornagain77  June 8, 2018 at 7:25 am

Off topic:
Anthony Bourdain (June 25, 1956 – June 8, 2018), a man who was paid handsomely to try to find as much happiness in this world as he could, was apparently left empty in that quest and ended up committing suicide. If there is any lesson to be learned in his tragic death it is that all the pleasures of this world will not bring us true fulfillment and that we must look ‘higher’ than this temporal realm in order to find true happiness:

Matthew: 31-33
So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

He had it coming for cooking tasty food.  You'll eat your loaves and fishes and like them, young lady!

im in ur post, fixin ur Linx

Gee, what a surprise. Either BatShit is ignorant of, or being completely dishonest about, what Bourdain stood for during his life. And it doesn't really matter which of those is true when one is callous enough to use someone's death a some sort of signpost demonstrating why you need their personal mythology.

One could not possibly have watched one or two of Bourdain's shows or read anything he wrote without understanding that he thought of food, as it's a human universal, as a medium that could be used to break down cultural barriers. To expose us all to those who are different than us, to their overall histories and customs. To help people to expand their understanding of others in order minimize their tribalism and he was hugely successful at it. Leave it to BatShit to characterize what the man did with his life as vainly "chasing" food.

Stick it back up your ass, Phil.

Date: 2018/06/13 10:33:51, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 10 2018,04:26)
If you want to be useful then help clearly communicate all the above. You can start with something like the use of coloring books for enhancing memory retention via episodic memory recall of motor actions while filling things in using different colors. Perhaps you have some of your own to share. Something else useful. Anything.

Date: 2018/06/13 20:47:46, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ June 13 2018,16:29)
Allan KeithJune 13, 2018 at 10:03 am
Tom Robbins,

Darwin was a racists – the full title of his Origin of a species was “On the origin of species by means of natural selection, or the preservation of favoured races in the struggle for life.

I was wondering when this nonsense would be brought up.

derp city

I'm reminded of our own DrGH's article responding to that very criticism posted almost exactly four years ago ...

(yessir, I lurk your blog from time to time)

The lie that Charles Darwin was a racist.

Coincidentally, another article on the topic was posted just yesterday. However this one is intended to rebut a specific claim about Dwarin supporting Francis Galton's view of eugenics and that he also allegedly decried social welfare programs as harmful to mankind.

More "Dwarin was a Racist Bull

( sic :p )

Date: 2018/06/14 06:44:12, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 14 2018,01:16)
Oh look, a coloring book page that was already posted in the thread. From these things we can learn much about the human mind works.

Date: 2018/06/15 07:37:55, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Dr.GH @ June 14 2018,08:28)
Quote (Lethean @ June 13 2018,18:47)
I'm reminded of our own DrGH's article responding to that very criticism posted almost exactly four years ago ...

(yessir, I lurk your blog from time to time)

The lie that Charles Darwin was a racist.

Coincidentally, another article on the topic was posted just yesterday. However this one is intended to rebut a specific claim about Dwarin supporting Francis Galton's view of eugenics and that he also allegedly decried social welfare programs as harmful to mankind.

More "Dwarin was a Racist Bull

( sic :p )

Wow. I wondered if anyone reads that stuff. :D

PS: Inspired, I fixed links and misspelling. I even added a little.

Happy to be an anyone.   ;)

Date: 2018/06/17 09:16:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ June 17 2018,01:20)
For a rather bizzare thread, check out  Bill Dembski on artificial intelligence's homunculus problem.

First, it marks the return of Dr. Dr. William Dembski to his old stomping grounds at Uncommon Descent.  After being shit-canned from the Discovery Institute, he had announced that he was switching to solving the problems of education and devising a new digital currency.  

Unfortunately, Doc Doc's qualifications in education consisted of being a college student for ever and ever and then getting his teaching butt shit-canned from a respectable college AND a religious college.  Plus publishing the names, home addresses, private email addresses and residential phone numbers of the entire Baylor Board of Regents.  Because he thought it would help his cause.  Think JoeG calling random Baylor Reagants and giving them  his unique perspective on the case. Yeah.

Not too surprisingly, the offers to teach have not come flooding in.  Worse, the bottom has dropped out of Bitcoin, whose sky-high run-up in prices seems to have been the result of market manipulation.  This has taken a lot of the shine off the whole digital currency field.   Worse still, the digital currency field seems to be filled with people who actually know what they're doing - things like how to program a high end video card to mine bitcoins hundreds of times faster that the most powerful microprocessors can.  Curiously, this is a form of mathematical searching so you'd think that Dr. Dr. Search would take  to it like a duck to water, but apparently not.

Well, at least there's still good ol' Uncommon Descent, which Doc Doc D actually started back in those heady days when ID Was the Future and where he will always be respected as the Blog's founder . . . and then Batshit77 comes out against him!

I'm not going to paste BS77's "arguments" because they mostly reduce to his usual mind-numbing blather, including generous use of the word "quantum", but check this snark:                
If humans do not have the capacity of “looking under the hood (lifting the tops of their skulls?) and therewith identifying their own Goedel sentence”, then please prey tell how Dr. Dembski (and others) were able to identify the fallacy of the Homunculus argument in the first place?
It would seem that Dr. Dembski’s appeal to the Homunculus argument itself directly refutes his claim that humans don’t have the capability of, so to speak, looking under the hood (lifting the tops of their skulls?) and therewith identifying their own Goedel sentence.

Adding salt to the wound, BS77 then does the absolute public service of exhuming one of Michael Egnor's choicest bits of Tard.  I'm actually grateful for this because I'm sure I never would have seen it otherwise.  This section is well worth quoting:            
I would also like to note that the Homunculus argument is very friendly to Dr. Michael Egnor’s (Theistic) contention (via Aristotle) that “Perception at a distance is no more inconceivable than action at a distance.”

Perception and the Cartesian Theater – Michael Egnor – December 8, 2015
Excerpt: Perception at a distance is no more inconceivable than action at a distance. The notion that a perception of the moon occurs at the moon is “bizarre” (Torley’s word) only if one presumes that perception is constrained by distance and local conditions — perhaps perception would get tired if it had to go to the moon or it wouldn’t be able to go because it’s too cold there. Yet surely the view that the perception of a rose held up to my eye was located at the rose wouldn’t be deemed nearly as bizarre. At what distance does perception of an object at the object become inconceivable?

It should be noted that Dr. Torley strongly objected to Dr. Egnor’s argument for ‘perception at a distance’.

Specifically, Dr. Torley held that perception cannot possibly be at a Supernova which “ceased to exist nearly 200 millennia ago, long before the dawn of human history.”

The Squid and the Supernova: A Reply to Professor Egnor – December 9, 2015 – vjtorley
Excerpt: In February 1987, a supernova appeared in the Southern skies, and remained visible for several months. ,,, The problem is that the object itself ceased to exist nearly 200 millennia ago, long before the dawn of human history. Even if the squid that witnessed the explosion were capable of having perceptions which are located in intergalactic space, as Egnor contends, they are surely incapable of having perceptions which go back in time.
,,,perception is a bodily event, and that an event involving my body cannot take place at a point which is separate from my body. An event involving my body may occur inside my body, or at the surface of my body, but never separately from it. Thus it simply makes no sense to assert that I am here, at point X, but that my perceptions – or for that matter, my actions – are located at an external point Y.
And then he throws in another quantum to seal the deal          
Besides the Homunculus argument undermining Dr. Torley’s claim that perception cannot possibly be at a distance, advances in Quantum Mechanics now also, empirically, undermines Dr. Torley’s claim:
BS kind of peters out there, no doubt nursing severely strained cut-n-paste fingers, but out of nowhere and for no discernable reason,  johnnyb, whose secret identity is the Blyth Institute, chimes in:          

5 johnnyb June 15, 2018 at 4:05 pm

Also related is an old video I did about “Solving Engineering Problems Using Theology”:


Check it out.

What all you fools are overlooking is the fact that god created the perception of that supernova already in transit 6,000 years ago.


Date: 2018/06/17 09:32:24, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Nils Ruhr @ June 17 2018,09:08)
Silver Asiatic:
At one time I would have given a socially-correct response, and I’m too cowardly to say such a thing in public (I’m getting a bit more courage in my old age), but thanks to the anonymity here I’ll say it … I don’t think women should have the right to vote. Islamic society seems very successful without granting this right, so I don’t see it as necessary for a culture to progress and flourish.


Saudi Arabia issued drivers licenses to ten women just ahead of lifting the ban on women driving in that country.

Damn commie socialist leftist progressives are ruining everything.

Date: 2018/06/17 11:21:33, Link
Author: Lethean
Screw the cat, we're talking Quantum Christianity here. All that matters is Jesus is both dead and alive.

Also, the binky of Turin.

Date: 2018/06/19 00:03:53, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 18 2018,22:29)
bornagain77 June 18, 2018 at 8:59 pm

Mr. Arrington per Allan Keith’s post at 14.

I ask that Allan Keith be removed from UD if he continues his trollish behavior towards me. This is the second time he has responded in such a juvenile manner towards one of my posts.

And I will hold my breath until you ban him.

What a whining little jerk.

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 18 2018,22:46)

Followed by:
Allan, if you want to continue posting on this site, you will apologize to BA77 for your trollish post at 14.

Date: 2018/06/21 23:00:43, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Henry J @ June 21 2018,13:30)
Quote (JohnW @ June 21 2018,10:26)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 21 2018,08:29)
Allan Keith gets banned and all of a sudden several commenters I have never seen before pop up. Coincidence?

The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away.

Surely not!

Date: 2018/06/23 12:49:46, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Ptaylor @ June 23 2018,04:19)
Lethean has just posted a picture mocking a fine, sincere comic performer who is no longer here to defend himself.  I’ll have you know, Mister Lethean, that Leslie Neilsen took on roles such as Lt. Drebin with an almost statesmanlike dignity. Never has such decorum and gravitas graced the  satirical disaster movie genre. Mr Neilsen out-performed every other actor in every film he appeared in and won every Oscar award he was nominated for. And don’t go trying to assert that he couldn’t have because he wasn’t nominated for any - that would be a strawman poisoning the atmosphere with the oil of ad hominem.
No, Mr Neilsen was a fine, upstanding and probably devout man, unlike your precious charles darwin, who inspired racism, world wars one and two, and abortion. he also towered over your atheistic hero stephen hawking who was, by comparison, a mental midget. Here is a video in which Mr Neilsen is rightly described as a genius: YouTube
So apologise at once for this dreadful slur on a man who no longer here to defend himself, or I will formally ask for your removal from this site.
For shame!

Date: 2018/06/29 14:37:57, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ June 29 2018,11:17)
Quote (stevestory @ June 29 2018,07:04)
Up thread he's complaining he couldn't board a plane to some other mosquito infested island in the Caribbean with his drivers license and got into a protracted argument with a bureaucrat and lost,

Everyone who's worked in retail or on a wait staff knows exactly what kind of idiot Gordon is.


- Are you that nutter with the sign outside the post office?

Haven't had the opportunity to use it yet but my holstered response to that inquiry is

- The load your mother shoulda swallowed?

Date: 2018/06/30 22:26:26, Link
Author: Lethean
It's been a couple of years but I used to listen to SGTTU and read Novella's blog on the regular and he's pretty much the opposite of what nonlin asserts, or rather, projects.

nonlin's nonsense is nothing new nor surprising. "They" don't know everything therefore all the shit I'd like to believe is not only possible but must be true because "they" haven't disproved it yet. Also, "they" just don't want to believe because yadda yadda yadda. That's pretty much his shtick.

I caught a bunch of nonlin's fractally wrong crap over at Pingu's place and time after time I saw him demonstrate he doesn't even grasp some of the basic concepts he rails against. The dude is tiresome. When he showed up I was already tired of mung and bill cole and jmac and the routine of the intellectually dishonest trolling idiocy. In a way he added to the "last straw" and I quit lurking there at all.

Date: 2018/07/22 20:18:14, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ July 21 2018,21:06)
Quote (Joe G @ July 21 2018,21:01)
If it further warms the earth then why does it continue to get cooler until the Sun comes back?

Classic Joke stupidity.

"How can excess CO2 be causing the average global temperature to rise when it still gets cooler at night?"

You can't make up that kind of scientific ignorance folks.   :D

I give Joe 4 out of 5 toaster fires for that one.


Introducing The Joe G Toaster Fire Rating System

Date: 2018/08/19 06:44:19, Link
Author: Lethean
Whilst reading through Mapou's shitty little blog, that would that require roughly zero indexing and less than five minutes to mirror with the right application, I just had an epiphany. Clearly NicholasMarks is the love child of Mapou and Batty77.

Nicholas has discovered that the bible is indeed a science book that explains everything you need to know about physics and that Satan would rather you didn't know that.

Your style reminds me of someone else Stranger. No hard feelings but he refused to grasp difficult scientific points like the one that if Jesus attracted millions of supporters then his science is repeatable if we use his data points and I have proven to myself, at least, that it still works in the dimension of resurrection, repair and everlasting life because attaching ourselves to his righteous science and God's indestructible energy does just that...regardless of who says otherwise.

So...let's explore what you find so offensive Stranger...that I say that there is an invisible, superabundant, indestructible, dynamic energy behind the existence of the universe. That it is owned by Almighty fact it is God and from it, all science, all stars and all life came into being. Now that is what the Holy Bible tells us as well and Jesus taught us how to harness it where do I discredit Jesus or his father and where do I not offer great hope by revealing a science that Satan's henchmen would rather we didn't have?.

Wherever a group of people gather under one banner it is the same electric evidence at work. Often they seek security from hostile forces...This is the same in Christianity and Judaism. It is the science that underpins this emotional gathering, that you say doesn't exist, that I find intriguing. You see, it always works in one of two ways...either it is used to create oppression as Satan and his henchmen do, else it is used righteously as Almighty God and Jesus Christ do...and the force that is at work, in every case, is our inner electric/nervous/spiritual energy...and warning you of the terrible problems facing us today because of our abstinence from this knowledge isn't is loving kindness...and Jesus Christ knows all about it because his crucifixion oscillated from his stake like a vibrating transmitter which will never stop vibrating because the science behind his teaching will never stop...which brings us neatly to his resurrection...your resurrection...and the resurrection of all souls who will have to face God's Judgement...but if you interpret this as intimidation then, I'm afraid, your attitude is all wrong.

Date: 2018/08/25 16:23:17, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (k.e.. @ Aug. 25 2018,12:12)
Kf's map needs more dragons.

He needs to change up those bad words about Russia too. Apparently they are now our best friends or something.

Bryan Fischer says Putin is "a Lion of Christianity, the defender of Christian Values" 'cause they hate teh gay.

Also, ...

Date: 2018/08/28 06:02:05, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 25 2018,10:06)
Quote (clamboy @ Aug. 24 2018,20:31)
What the...what??

I agree with these conclusions. I do not go along with the view that human evolution has proceeded from a crude primitive condition to increasingly sophisticated modern culture. I believe that some very ancient human cultures have matched and even exceeded modern humans in their technological sophistication.

I’m fairly confident this post will generate much criticism. I look forward to this so long as it relates to the evidence and an attempt is made to back it up.

This entry was posted in Evolution by CharlieM.

Finally, an excuse to share this image that's been hiding in my bookmarks awaiting the day it would be relevant.

In the end, after the dubious arguments about artifacts and dating errors evaporate, this crap typically boils down to the proponent of such theories making much ado about how well humans made a pile of rock fit together with a generous dose of incredulity that culminates in a very firm "nobody can explain that." There will be no argument or support for "exceeded modern humans in their technological sophistication" whatsoever.

Then there's this gem, proving life is nothing if not indistinguishable from performance art.

Robert Byers
August 28, 2018 at 1:48 am

Should cultures be judged solely on the intellectual status of individuals within that culture?

Robert Byers:
there is no evidence for other human types exceeding out intellectual status.

No. It should be their relationship to jesus christ and then a moral standard. then a intellectual one. i was responding to a claim of human types with greater intellect then us.

You know, that relationship with Jesus that goes back millions of years.

Just kidding. Probably few missed what Robert really meant by "out intellectual status" vs. "other human types." But just in case anyone did, it was the superiority of white Christian people. According to Robert and people of his ilk anything that appears older and hairier than your average population of black folk simply aren't related to us.

Date: 2018/09/09 18:04:38, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (fnxtr @ Aug. 30 2018,13:43)
Climate Wondering How Much It Has To Change Before Humans Notice

Thanks for the links.  :D

I added The Beaverton to my folder of satire bookmarks that I cruise when I'm tired of wading in the current depth of everyday bullshit.

The Onion
The Hard Times
The Daily Mash  (UK)
The Betoota Advocate  (Australia)
Waterford Whispers News  (Ireland)

Date: 2018/09/13 14:16:26, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 12 2018,11:49)
My sentiments exactly. If he persists in this behavior, I will request that he be banned (once again) from UD for trolling.

This never gets old.

Date: 2018/09/14 15:55:05, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (clamboy @ Sep. 14 2018,02:35)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 12 2018,22:08)


Just a quick heads up, CC: I can't speak for anyone else, but when I click the link, it goes to a stupid thread (a stupid thread on UD? Calling the Department of Redundancy Department!) about Jerry Coyne, and not the thread in which this turd appears.

Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 14 2018,12:37)
That is The Miracle of UD!  They sent my link five years back in time and attached it to a post about an entirely different IDiot.  And now the entire post seems to have disappeared.

This wouldn't be the first time I've seen a bad UD URL "bounce" to some other post rather than 404. In this case there's an extraneous "/u" at the end of the URL ...


which causes UD to bounce you to ...


note the "u-" after the "/intelligent design/". I suspect that's why that particular one lands you there. Flaky blog is flaky.

Anyway, the post is still up. Here's a good link.

My favorite is the lead-in to CC's quote.

PaoloV    September 10, 2018 at 5:25 pm

This kind of baseless ideas makes me feel more attracted to serious discussions like the ones started by gpuccio.

PaoloV    September 10, 2018 at 5:32 pm

However, I’m glad to see this stuff reported here, so we are aware of what’s going on out there. This kind of stuff seems to sell well.

PaoloV appreciates the outside information smuggled into the bubble for the sake of hand-wavy dismissal.

Date: 2018/09/14 19:34:38, Link
Author: Lethean
Well, I really don't hold that against Joe's intellectual abilities.

I mean, when you've refuted at least one entire scientific discipline by the end of your PopTart breakfast and two or three more by the time lunch rolls around one does tend to run out of steam.

Date: 2018/09/21 14:10:02, Link
Author: Lethean
My memory is a bit fuzzy but isn't Dionisio the one that has made a hobby out of posting comments to old dead UD articles?

Date: 2018/09/28 11:51:30, Link
Author: Lethean
Soooo, I saw this today and it reminded me of FloydLee and made me wonder what he's up to or if he is even still with us.

Any confirmed in the wild sightings of late?

Candidate's campaign sign in Pineville causes controversy (Rapides Parish School Board election)

Bonus: it will surprise nobody that Jamie Floyd also put forth a motion as a police juror in District C (whatever that is, Louisiana is weird af) to have the ten commandments suggestions displayed in the parish courthouse.

ed-  huh,

The Police Jury is the legislative and executive government of the parish, and is elected by the voters. Its members are called Jurors, and together they elect a President as their chairman. The President presides over the Police Jury and serves as the titular head of the parish government. The Police Jury is akin to the commissions or councils that govern counties in most other states.

ed 2-  also this, good lord hahahaha

Date: 2018/09/29 23:15:27, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Bob O'H @ Sep. 25 2018,04:25)
Yeah, can we persuade Barry's firm to reduce his workload, so he has more time to blog?

Protip: Caboose is also a euphemism for ass.

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 29 2018,14:44)
Saturday afternoon quiz. Who said this?
If you do not answer properly I will seek to have you banned for trolling.

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 29 2018,16:54)
I will forward this exchange to admins and request you be removed from UD for trolling.

At this rate, there will be nobody commenting at UD.

Date: 2018/10/12 15:55:35, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 12 2018,15:42)
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 12 2018,14:37)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 12 2018,15:21)
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 12 2018,12:35)
JVL is my new favorite commenter at UD.

Any time I start enjoying a commenter he/she gets hit with the ban hammer.

Has this happened to JVL yet?

I don’t think so.

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 12 2018,08:22)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Oct. 12 2018,04:27)
Quote (Ptaylor @ Oct. 12 2018,02:39)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 12 2018,13:27)

In other words, the very fact that Atheists demand to be treated fairly is in and of itself proof that their atheistic worldview is utterly false

R J Sawyer

I will respond to this claim with the effort and thought it deserves.

Ouch! That has to hurt.

Nah, with BA's senses of humour, irony and self awareness it won't have even registered. He is probably still sitting and waiting for a long and considered reply.

Eventually he'll realise what happened to him, and try to use the same trick.

Or request to have RJ banned.

Date: 2018/10/13 14:59:47, Link
Author: Lethean
Hey, the President of the United States says that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by and on behalf of China so the Chinese can Make China Great Again. Also, vaccines cause autism. Many such cases.

I mean, he has all this access to the best scientists and advisors and intelligence and governmental whatnot so he should know. Right?

You aren't fooling anybody, Steve. So, nice try.

Date: 2018/10/17 19:57:48, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 17 2018,16:36)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 17 2018,12:28)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Oct. 17 2018,04:09)
It must be Saturday here. Barry had a bit of a meltdown last night:
God help us. Bob, the video is not where she makes the claim. I linked to that earlier in the post. Read the post again. Follow the links provided.

The video is not her claim. It is her effort at damage control after having been caught in the lie. Instead of apologizing, she tries to defend it but only makes it worse.

Bob, try reading for comprehension before you reflexively spew leftist talking points. It probably won’t keep you from spewing leftist talking points, but at least you won’t sound utterly clueless.

Bob, no rational person can defend Warren. That you attempt to do so speaks volumes.

I call BS on you Bob. She did not claim to have a distant practically negligible Native American heritage. She claimed she was an Indian Bob. Get over it.

The report does not back up what she said for the reasons explained in the post. With each passing comment you descend further into hyper-partisan irrational defense mode Bob. Stop it. It is painful to watch.

No one is saying that Dave. The point of JAD’s statement is obvious. I am surprised you are unable to grasp it. Allow me to unpack it for you.

By definition, moral subectivists assert that “good” means nothing other than “that which I prefer.” Surely a moral subjetivist would not attempt to convince someone that his preference for, say, chocolate ice cream is superior to their preference for vanilla. JAD is saying that a moral subjectivist’s opinion on a race issue is — according to their own first principles — fundamentally no different from their taste in ice cream. So, to the extent their first principles are true, their opinions on the race issue are irrelevant to everyone but themselves.

Of course, no sane person actually acts as if subjective morality is true. Thus, your comment.

Barry has honoured you with a new OP.

Bob O’H Sets Us All Straight (Thank You Bob)

Bannination can't be far behind.

Date: 2018/10/19 16:15:24, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 18 2018,15:13)
I consider that trollish behavior.

I request an apology or else I will request that you be banned.

On second thought, since you insulted practically everybody on UD, forget the apology.

Date: 2018/10/22 11:36:03, Link
Author: Lethean

Date: 2018/11/15 10:28:44, Link
Author: Lethean

Date: 2018/11/25 09:40:08, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 21 2018,15:01)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Nov. 21 2018,10:27)
Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 21 2018,12:26)
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 21 2018,10:03)
Ed GeorgeNovember 21, 2018 at 11:01 am

He adds, “I didn’t use to believe it, but I’ve come to see that the single most powerful force for dissolving religious faith in the West was, and still is, Darwinism.”

I tend to agree with DaveS. I don’t think that there is a significant decline in the belief in God, or at lest in some higher power. What has declined is the following of various organized religions. And, frankly, the people most responsible for this are the hierarchy in the various organized religions. Whether it’s the outright racism and homophobia of groups like the Westboro church, the pedophilia cover-ups of the Catholic church, or the blind literal interpretation and judgmental attitude of many of the evangelical groups, many people see the corruption, racism and homophobia that can creep into organized religion.

Barry and the Homophobes probly aren't going to like this.

Worst. Band. Name. Ever.

fnxtr gets some kind of award for today: one of those "win the internet" things.

Points to stevestory for the assist/setup.

Track List

Ban Hammer Blues
No Longer With Us
Intellectual Crybars
Just Like Jesus Would
The Wedgie Stops Here
Darwin Did All The Things

Bonus Track

No Longer With Us [Val-uh-Dick-torian Remix]

Brought to you by Objectivley Morally Bankrupt Records

A division of Who, What, Where, When (LLC) ©2018

three POTWs this week. I think that might be a record. -ST

Date: 2018/12/05 15:58:48, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 29 2018,15:42)
ScuzzaManNovember 29, 2018 at 7:05 am
Dark matter is a desperate attempt to rescue a failing theory.

And, in my estimation, that is all it is.

Possibly (time will tell) it is also a failure.

daveSNovember 29, 2018 at 7:19 am

Do you have any suggestions which might yield a better theory?

ScuzzaManNovember 29, 2018 at 7:26 am

The evidence presented by the electric universe theorists is quite compelling in its claims that gravity is not the be-all and end-all of cosmic structure.

Whether their theory is any better at explaining other things I could not say, but my view is they’ve done more than enough to demonstrate that electromagnetism cannot be discounted in the matter of galactic formation and behaviour.

Thus, the inventing of unobservables in order to maintain current orthodoxy does not appear at all necessary nor desirable.

daveSNovember 29, 2018 at 8:19 am
Thanks for that, ScuzzaMan.


Color me shocked that with all the hardcore science'ing going on over at UD they haven't discovered this themselves rather than those clearly fraudulent dogmatic Darwinian atheistic materialists.

Bringing balance to the universe: New theory could explain missing 95 percent of the cosmos

Date: 2018/12/18 17:24:37, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 13 2018,20:03)
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 13 2018,19:39)
Alexa has UD as the 538,000th most popular website in America, with page views going down and time on site going down. plus he's paying Denise out of his own pocket to keep posting four posts a day, to make it look like the site is still busy. I'm sure he'd love some more ad revenue, but I don't know how he's going to get it. Maybe he could start selling some merch.

ETA how much dinero do you think there is in shipping a cap to a shack in Montserrat?

Maybe UD brand fishing reels?

Oil of ad hominem of the month club?

A streaming service for farty videos?

In the arms of an angel ...

Every single hour on UD, science is violently science'd.

... fly away from here ...
               ... from this dark cold hotel room ...

3,000 word rants were posted last year.

... and the endlessness that you feel
               You were pulled from wreckage ...

For dozens of us! lurkers, the tard came too late.

... of your silent reverie ...
               ... you're in the arms of the angel ...
                               ... may you find some comfort here

Hi. I'm Lethean. Will you be an angel for a helpless cause?

Every day the arguments of cdesign proponentsists are straw-manned, oil soaked, and set ablaze.

And they are crying out for more.

Please click the donate button on UD and join their Quixotic adventure with a monetary gift right now.

For just a few non-ambulance-chased dollars a month, only cents a day, you'll help the tard flow.

You're in the arms of the angel ...
               ... may you fiiiiiIIIIiiiiiiIIIiiiinnnnd ...
                                   ... some comfort here.

Click and donate online in the next 30 minutes and you'll receive this triple-threat set of exploded diagrams right now.

Please click now.

...... trailing piano noises .....

Date: 2018/12/18 17:53:57, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 14 2018,04:12)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 13 2018,20:08)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 13 2018,20:03)
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 13 2018,19:39)
Alexa has UD as the 538,000th most popular website in America, with page views going down and time on site going down. plus he's paying Denise out of his own pocket to keep posting four posts a day, to make it look like the site is still busy. I'm sure he'd love some more ad revenue, but I don't know how he's going to get it. Maybe he could start selling some merch.

ETA how much dinero do you think there is in shipping a cap to a shack in Montserrat?

Maybe UD brand fishing reels?

Oil of ad hominem of the month club?

A streaming service for farty videos?

Speaking of farty videos, anyone know what Dr.Dr.Dr. is up to these days?  Is the barbeque shack still his primary (only) source of income?

Dr^n is now an "entrepreneur who builds educational software and websites".

Coincidentally, last night I read this interesting comment by Gregory over at TSZ where he says, more or less in passing,

(Preface to Dembski’s ID: THE Bridge between Science and Theology, 1999, which also overshot its reach, but Dembski still won’t admit that openly, now back employed by the DI after officially ‘retiring’ from ID not that long ago).

I haven't bothered to try and verify that in any way, nor do I have a convenient way to ask him how he knows that.

Date: 2018/12/18 17:56:30, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 18 2018,17:27)
For the record, tough guy wjm deleted this post:


December 18, 2018 at 1:01 pm
Hi wjm. I just saw your notes about posts about personalities, and that you deleted some posts. How do you feel about comments about personalities within posts?

For instance, in 158, kf said in reference to Ed and me, “I am left shaking my head and chuckling”, and in 147 he wrote, “H, chuckling again. This one is called turnabout projection”

Are those appropriate? I’m perfectly willing to refrain from comments about personalities, but I’d also like kf to refrain from comments like the ones I highlighted in 146. Is that a reasonable request?

replacing it with this:

[Questions or comments about how I moderate my own threads will be deleted. – WJM]

Worst kept secret?

The J in WJM stands for Jagoff.

Date: 2018/12/25 18:11:04, Link
Author: Lethean
I assume most of you are missing out on the Dave Hawkins Show over on the ARSE subforum at TalkRational as of late. For special definitions of the phrase "missing out" that is.

There is no "styrofoam iceberg" trick with me.  (I doubt there is with Trump either).  Both he and I work like crazy trying to quickly become experts at whatever it is we put our minds to learning and whenever we run across someone who is so obviously ignorant of the given topic, yet massively arrogant, our mouths just drop open in disbelief.

edit: linky

It will probably surprise few that Dave is a full blown member of Cult 45 and firmly believes Trump is a "stable genius" and #winning 24/7. In fact, Dave has his head so far up the ass of the right wing propaganda machine he's picked up and posted (jaq'd) a few times some of the historical revisionism that the supremacists and neo-nazis have been trying to mainstream these last couple of years.

The last was his attempt to "reexamine" if slavery really was a primary cause of the Civil War. By the end of the thread Dave tossing around an accusation or two of "socialist!" and quoting Gen. Douglas MacArthur as an authority on how they are the same as evil commies and fascists. He even gets in a "globalist" swipe or two before someone educates him on wtf that (((dog whistle))) actually means.

Around the time of alt-right shit-show in Charlottesville Dave was "wondering" if all those Confederate monuments and statues put up almost entirely on school and university grounds, totes coincidentally during the years of desegregation, actually had anything to do with racism.

Oh, and as per usual, Dave understands evolution better than Darwinists and has provided a recent rash of reposts concerning the same 10yo debunked Exodus/Flood nonsense recycled from here and abroad. His "quotemine-headstand-and-squint" was pretty entertaining.

On the whole though Dave is pretty happy with himself though. Still "saving the world", presumably by spreading around a thin layer of animal crap in the hills outside of Buttfuck,MO whilst drawing up his grand plans for a utopian "subdivision" none of which anybody else really seems to give a shit about. Well, except for the tardy byproduct it develops. Also something about having a cow for a while but had to get rid of, for some reason? For a guy who spent years expounding on "that's what god wants us to return to, his plan" and whatnot he seems to be just fine with dropping that bit. *shrug*

And so it goes.  /update

Oh, and Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Bah Humbug, etc., etc.

Date: 2018/12/26 01:31:44, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 25 2018,19:14)
Show Dave the secession statements that the southern states put out explaining why they were seceding.

Ha, yeah. It's a slightly older thread that went the distance and that was one of the first things that was brought up. Especially since Dave was initially trying to focus on events that occurred after the secession and one specific quote of Lincoln. Good grief.

I believe there was some deflection via "yeah, but that was only some of the states what about the others" but of course the other states simply hadn't made much of an official declaration if at all. Never mind that when the Confederacy was officially formed the Articles explicitly said that no state was permitted to outlaw slavery.

Clearly owning brown human beings was an after thought.


Basically a bonus, if you will.

Date: 2019/01/02 03:34:53, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Jan. 01 2019,18:01)
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 01 2019,17:23)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Jan. 01 2019,18:10)

For the record, I got booted from UD for accusing Barry of being a coward because he deleted all the posts of people complaining about his behavior.

It will not surprise you to know that BS 77 has replied to Steve h with approximately 700 million words.

It was hilarious to see "scroll wheel killer" batshit77 beg for Barry to remove the "read more" option button.   :D

It takes a special kind of vanity to believe that not only should everyone else get a full-on whiff of your farts, it would just ruin your day if you couldn't get a proper sniff or two as you scroll by them on the way to see if anyone bothered replying to your latest magnum opus flatus.

Date: 2019/01/04 10:02:21, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Jkrebs @ Jan. 03 2019,08:39)
William J Murray turns out to be a quack. His "mental monism" philosophy is a form of mystic New-Ageism whereby if we all just turned our minds to it, we could make reality the way we want it. At least that's how I read him.


Unfortunately I lost my little archive of links to quotes that made my "best of" list but I believe I can accurately convey the only one of his I ever kept.

He has explicitly stated that his concern is not whether his beliefs are true, only that they are useful to him.

He's quite the epistemologist.

Date: 2019/01/05 15:41:45, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Jan. 05 2019,10:21)
Your Saturday morning chuckle.
Barry Arrington
January 5, 2019 at 10:15 am
Kairosfocus is our resident polymath here at UD. The depth and breadth of his erudition never ceases to amaze.

Good Grief. With that sort of knob polish Gordo is going to have to go paddle himself off in a cave somewhere.

Date: 2019/01/25 14:15:12, Link
Author: Lethean
Eagerly awaiting EDTA's evidence-free notions on Vitamin C deficiency and broken genes in the apes lineage from within the "ID Paradigm"

At least he/she had the good sense to leave out the aquatic ape "theory" that is almost always the source of the but muh iodine assertions driven by incredulity. In this case it's Jesus, rather than humans living and screwing like otters in the ocean.

Date: 2019/01/27 12:22:44, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2019,23:43)

Bornagain77 January 25, 2019 at 5:33 pm
A few quotes:

Hillary Clinton is Wrong: OBGYN Says Abortion is Never Necessary to Save the Life of the Mother – MICAIAH BILGER OCT 24, 2016
Dr. Lawrence Koning, an OB-GYN in Corona, California, said Clinton also is wrong about late-term abortions being necessary to save a woman’s life or health, according to Christian News Network....

And then et shows up and compares abortion and global warming, because also complete idiot.  :D  :p  :)

Someone should tell that to the families of Valentina Milluzzo and Savita Halappanavar, to mention two from recent memory.

Unless, of course, by "never necessary" they mean they have no problem with women slowly dying in agonizing pain from sepsis because all they have to do is accept Jesus and live forever and ever after in the afterlife. In that case, never mind.

Edit: I guess I have to take this one back, about those particular women, because on the re-read I see that they meant specifically late term procedures. It's a little difficult to find search results concerning late term because nearly all the results are from anti-abortion site articles about women who have died under the procedure.

Date: 2019/02/15 19:25:26, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 06 2019,00:52)
On the other hand, there are a lot of surplus Jokes in every society.  Can someone who still posts on UD ask Joke if he's EVER been laid?

This question would be rhetorical. We all know Joke lies constantly about who and what he is.

His latest attention-whoring-yet-to-be-banned Discus username is "sombodysdad" so it follows, much like "Paul the Muslim" was neither Paul nor Muslim, Joke is not somebody's dad let alone been laid.

Rumor has it though that he went on a date one time with Sharon Maloney. But you don't know her. She's from Canada.

Date: 2019/02/17 15:28:25, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 16 2019,09:48)
Quote (Lethean @ Feb. 15 2019,19:25)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 06 2019,00:52)
On the other hand, there are a lot of surplus Jokes in every society.  Can someone who still posts on UD ask Joke if he's EVER been laid?

This question would be rhetorical. We all know Joke lies constantly about who and what he is.

His latest attention-whoring-yet-to-be-banned Discus username is "sombodysdad" so it follows, much like "Paul the Muslim" was neither Paul nor Muslim, Joke is not somebody's dad let alone been laid.

Rumor has it though that he went on a date one time with Sharon Maloney. But you don't know her. She's from Canada.

I heard that hussy Sharon Mahoney (not Maloney) is a real slut.   Just last week rumor had it she was caught in a group grope with ET, somebodysdad, Frankie, and Virgil Cain.   :D

And here I thought she finally stopped cheating when she started dating FrisbeeKid. Who, if IIRC, is Joke's email security challenged dad.

Date: 2019/02/18 10:34:55, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 17 2019,16:26)
And Batshit77 gas also chimed in:            
As a Christian who has seen a few answered prayers during my life, I find it strange that the SETI (Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence) organization spends millions of dollars vainly searching for signs of extra-terrestrial life in this universe, when all anyone has to do to make solid contact with THE primary 'extra-terrestrial intelligence' of the entire universe is to pray with a sincere heart.

But it turned out that he was talking to himself.

The unspoken justification for the "vainly searching" is of course because Yaweh would have bothered to mention it in Ye Olde Scripture.


Reminds me of the affidavit/declaration of Lawrence Woodcraft. He was an architect hired to plan renovations on Scientology's fifth ship the Freewinds. He spotted what he thought was blue asbestos, known to be the worst of the worst in the asbestos family, and then verified it via the ships original blueprints.

Hubbard's phony navy called the Sea Org, crew who are really just volunteer slave labor 99.9% of whom have no ship or maritime experience whatsoever, had already begun tearing some things out and the shit was swilling around and contaminating the ship. When Woodcraft went to the higher ups and warn them about how dangerous this was it was finally David Miscavige's sister in law that had the final say. It was to be ignored because Hubbard had only mentioned that fiberglass was dangerous and obviously there was nothing wrong or dangerous about asbestos or else L.Ron would have written or warned them about it before he left his body at will to "continue his work". Who knows how many SO members and long term Scientologists visiting for their magical OTVIII level were exposed to that shit. It is thought to have contaminated everything including the ships ventilation systems.

That was in 1987 and the last time I heard anything about the Freewinds was around 2008 when the ship had been put into dry dock somewhere in the Caribbean for more renovations. An external crew hired for the heavy work discovered the asbestos and ship got locked down and quarantined by the local maritime authorities with the cult leaders continually denying that it was even asbestos at all. No further information seems to be out there on the status of the ship since that event.

Anyway, same logic at play here.

"Why bother," retorted Philip "I'm all about the science" Cunningham

Date: 2019/02/19 12:31:26, Link
Author: Lethean
Quote (clamboy @ Feb. 18 2019,16:38)
L'il Davie M had himself ego-photoed in the bowels of the Freewind a year or two ago as a publicity stunt for the faithful. If you know anything about the past 15 years of, as they say, $cntlgy, the fact that he was wearing his wedding ring ought to make you cringe in disgust.

To be honest, neither of those things surprise me in the least.

When it comes to Shelly though I'm of the opinion she's still alive for better or, more likely, worse. While I believe Little D is entirely capable and willing to have someone disappeared he's the kind of power tripping sadist that would much prefer to have her mentally scrambled and kept under his tiny boot.

I have to ask, any chance your nick here is related to the subject at hand? I realize it's probably not but the thought amuses me.