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Date: 2007/11/27 17:16:21, Link
Author: Guts
I normally don't feel like any website has to explain themselves with respect to banning. TT has always welcomed critics, but if you cross the line, you're gone. Thats just the way life is, and it's true for any blog/website (I was banned from an anti-ID forum myself once).

With that said, I feel that the situation with Frostman was the result of a huge misunderstanding that was completely my fault. I am also their technical support. The Memory Hole function simply did not work, and this was noted on the blog long before this situation snowballed, although it should've been made more explicitely. I specifically instructed TT bloggers to save a copy of the offending comment in their thread and delete it. After which they can send it to me , and I would manually insert it in the database (the memory hole).

This, unfortunately, gave the impression that comments were just being deleted, which is against TT policy. I am more than willing to have Frostman back if he truly respects understands the purpose of the memory hole, and why it exists, and respects the decisions of TT bloggers.

However, this had nothing to do with any dishonesty.

Date: 2007/11/27 18:19:57, Link
Author: Guts
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

lol JAM, you're delusional, as always.

Date: 2007/11/27 18:29:37, Link
Author: Guts
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

No you're delusional because you think you were banned for that reason. Most people who get banned develop a martydom complex.

Date: 2007/11/27 18:44:44, Link
Author: Guts
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote

No marty here. We're laughing at you, and not merely for your bad spelling of "martyrdom."


You're wrong. "Martyrdom" is the correct spelling.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/martyrdom

These are trivial questions.

Quote

They build nanometer-scale motors out of proteins?


I never said anything about anyone building nano motors out of proteins. Just that the motors humans make look like the flagellum. Heck I have hundreds of posts out there on the internet you chose a odd one to nitpick.

Quote

What line, Nelson?


Like being a pedantic ahole, for instance...

Quote

So why is there nothing in the thread at TT to indicate your alleged errors?


There are multiple posts in that thread to indicate what I was talking about.

Did you want to try again Smokey/Myosin/Jam/whatever you want to call yourself these days?

Date: 2007/11/27 18:54:13, Link
Author: Guts
Well, at least I demonstrated the point.

Date: 2008/01/06 18:11:16, Link
Author: Guts
Keiths wrote:

Quote

You and Bradford screwed up, so Frostman and I got banned.


No, you and Frostman couldn't follow rules, so you and Frostman got banned.

Frostman wrote:

Quote

Not long ago there was a bit of confusion when Guts began deleting my comments permanently, against TT policy.  


Actually the situation went more like this:

1. Frostman accused Bradford of (falsely) taking a quote of context.

2. After Bradford explained himself, Frostman continued harrassing Bradford.

3. The memory hole wasn't working, so I advised all TT authors to delete them and I will insert them into the memory manually.

4. Frostman increased harrassment after a TT author deleted a comment.

5. Keiths joined in the harrassment by restoring a comment from the memory hole.

6. Frostman and Keiths were banned.

The interesting thing about this is that I acknowledged that Frostman may have misunderstood the situation sincerely. So I offered him an opportunity to return. He said he didn't care whether or not he was banned. I'm glad he admitted that, as it shows that this is all just some martydom show. The bottom line is that, posting on TT isn't your right, it's a priviledge. Unless you want to help out with the costs ;)

Date: 2008/01/06 18:13:10, Link
Author: Guts
Wesley wrote:

Quote

Eh?


What was so hard to understand?

Date: 2008/01/06 18:14:08, Link
Author: Guts
It's interesting how none of the insults spewed by the residents here get sent to the wall...

Date: 2008/01/06 20:01:03, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (rhmc @ Jan. 06 2008,19:31)
so the memory hole wasn't working?
and the other posts are gone?

curious, eh?

Quote

so the memory hole wasn't working?
and the other posts are gone?


There's nothing curious about it. The posts that are gone were just him either repeating himself or complaining. It's working now, and there are plenty of critics on TT that post freely.

Date: 2008/01/06 20:04:14, Link
Author: Guts
Keiths:
Quote

As I told you at the time, I didn't restore the comment; Frostman did.  And he didn't restore it from the Memory Hole.  The Memory Hole was broken, remember?


Keiths, i'm looking right now at the copy of the comment of yours that I deleted. You can't even get basic facts right.

Keiths:
Quote

And by the way, you're still misspelling "martyrdom" as "martydom".


Yeah I keep leaving out the r. I'm not even sure why you're chiming in, in this situation, you look the worst, since I warned you about 5 times to get back on topic. It makes all your comments about the "martyrdom machine" rather hilarious.

Date: 2008/01/06 21:07:09, Link
Author: Guts
We're actually revamping the way these bannings go. Since there are many authors, and each of them have different levels of tolerance, I'm making a way for each author to police their threads individually. This will probably do away with the need for complete banishment.

Date: 2008/01/06 21:49:57, Link
Author: Guts
huh? That joke would be funnier if it lampooned the methodology accurately.

Date: 2008/01/06 22:12:22, Link
Author: Guts
Keiths:
Quote

Then post it here.  I know for a fact that I did not fish any comments out of the Memory Hole.  You've already admitted that the Memory Hole was not working -- how could I have fished out a comment that wasn't there, even if I had wanted to?


Keiths, if the memory hole still wasn't working at that point (even though I said it was fixed at that point), then why are there comments by Frostman and Joy in the memory hole? ( see here http://telicthoughts.com/57/#comment-157770)

Obviously at that point, the memory hole was working, and several of Frostman's comments were sent there. You pathetically tried to fish them out.


Keiths:
Quote

The only way that I could have quoted a deleted comment is if you deleted it after I quoted it.  Did that even occur to you?


Except that I didn't delete it.

Keiths:
Quote

What's amusing about this is that you've convicted yourself again.  By saying that you're "looking right now" at my comment that you deleted, you've confirmed that you violated TT's policy against deleting comments without placing them in the Memory Hole.


Actually, I deleted a comment of yours because you tried to fish it out of the memory hole. This is a method used to deter anyone from doing just that. Others have been banned for doing similar things (fishing comments out of the memory hole). But anyway thats not even the reason why you were banned.
 As you put it earlier:

Keiths:
Quote

Way to go, Marty.  Is there anything else you'd like to tell us?  Have you read Consilience?


Yup, it's obvious though, that you never did. That was a funny one.

Keiths:
Quote

(I'm still laughing about that one.  You were asked at least seven times if you had read Consilience, and you avoided the question each time, starting here through the end of the thread.)


I didn't avoid the question, I showed, through refuting each and every one of your points, that I had read it, and you didn't. What does scienticism mean again?

Date: 2008/01/06 22:17:23, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

We can give you a thread here to make your case, if you like, but it sounds like telic thoughts has boilerplate creobot 'moderation', so I wont be going there.


What are you talking about? TT is crawling with critics. If getting rid of trolls like Keiths is "boilerplate creobot moderation" then so be it.

Date: 2008/01/06 22:40:15, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I must be troll tolerant, or perhaps you're full of it.


Actualy I am very troll tolerant, I gave Keiths chance after chance to avoid getting banned. He decided to become a cog in his own "martyrdom machine" instead.

Look at him now, he can't even get his facts straight.

Date: 2008/01/06 22:46:47, Link
Author: Guts
Yeah but of course you would say that.

Date: 2008/01/06 22:49:20, Link
Author: Guts
Who is Alan Fox, why do you want me to go there? Are you inviting me to debate something? I don't mind participating here, but none of the topics interest me at the moment. Maybe I will in the future. I just wanted to set the record straight, I'm done for now.

Date: 2008/01/06 22:54:41, Link
Author: Guts
Keiths, you've never been good at making demands.

Richard, I have no idea what you're talking about, I have discussed on other forums, and I would be more than happy to debate anywhere you'd like, even on non-neutral venues.

Date: 2008/01/06 23:05:23, Link
Author: Guts
How about this, I'll do a scan of all your posts, or all of the threads that you've participated in, and if I feel inspired i'll start up a discussion there.

Date: 2008/01/06 23:16:01, Link
Author: Guts
Hmm, Richard, you think I'm not an evilutionist? I'm probably more of an evilutionist than you are.

Date: 2008/01/06 23:16:58, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (keiths @ Jan. 06 2008,23:14)
Quote
Keiths, you've never been good at making demands.

You were the one who said you were "looking right now" at my comment.  Why won't you post it?  Were you hoping I wouldn't call your bluff?

For those interested in seeing more of Guts' particular brand of tard, observe his reaction when he was shown that the DI had encouraged the teaching of ID in public schools prior to Dover:
Link

So Keiths, are you denying that you quoted Frostman's post that was in the memory hole, you're ACTUALLY going to deny it?

Date: 2008/01/06 23:20:04, Link
Author: Guts
lol Keiths, you're not very good at this.

Date: 2008/07/06 01:47:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Zachriel @ July 05 2008,19:38)
Quote (stevestory @ July 05 2008,18:10)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ July 05 2008,18:35)
Very interesting. Guts blogged  on "Your Inner Fish", by Neil Shubin. I posted some clearly pertinent information about the author, the codiscoverer of Tiktaalik roseae, an intermediate organism between fish and tetrapods. I provided a link to the official Tiktaalik website for those who might be interested in finding out more. The website has pictures of the expedition team, including Neil. Apparently, my comment was so controversial it was deleted, and I can no longer post on the thread.

By the way, for the benefit of Telic Thoughters, this is what scientists look like:



(Neil Shubin is in front.)

That's a damn shame, Zach. You're the best commenter there.

BTW, I can't even speculate on what MacNeill's problem is. In the beginning, I thought TT was better than it is, because they're better at covering up their misbehavior, but the posts there are junk compared to PT.

Whaddaya know. Guts says I wasn't banned. I was "barred".

You weren't banned, you were barred from a specific thread. You can post freely in any thread you wish. You just can't continue to derail mine

Date: 2008/07/06 01:47:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Zachriel @ July 05 2008,19:38)
Quote (stevestory @ July 05 2008,18:10)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ July 05 2008,18:35)
Very interesting. Guts blogged  on "Your Inner Fish", by Neil Shubin. I posted some clearly pertinent information about the author, the codiscoverer of Tiktaalik roseae, an intermediate organism between fish and tetrapods. I provided a link to the official Tiktaalik website for those who might be interested in finding out more. The website has pictures of the expedition team, including Neil. Apparently, my comment was so controversial it was deleted, and I can no longer post on the thread.

By the way, for the benefit of Telic Thoughters, this is what scientists look like:



(Neil Shubin is in front.)

That's a damn shame, Zach. You're the best commenter there.

BTW, I can't even speculate on what MacNeill's problem is. In the beginning, I thought TT was better than it is, because they're better at covering up their misbehavior, but the posts there are junk compared to PT.

Whaddaya know. Guts says I wasn't banned. I was "barred".

You weren't banned, you were barred from a specific thread. You can post freely in any thread you wish. You just can't continue to derail mine

Date: 2008/07/06 01:48:23, Link
Author: Guts
Art writes:
Quote

That's my last comment on TT - the crew there are so on edge that they cannot stand any probing questions


I  don't get it. How is posting a redundant link a "probing question"?

Date: 2008/07/06 01:48:23, Link
Author: Guts
Art writes:
Quote

That's my last comment on TT - the crew there are so on edge that they cannot stand any probing questions


I  don't get it. How is posting a redundant link a "probing question"?

Date: 2008/07/06 02:02:36, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman writes:
Quote

Incidentally, anon9 is me.  I'd have spoken sooner had I been following things.  I made the comment way-back-when and then promptly forgot about it.  I follow neither Telic Thoughts nor this site.  I did not have any reservations about attempting to raise consciousness at what has proven to be an unethical blog.  Nor did I try to disguise myself or my intentions, since I mentioned the name Frostman and gave links to my posts here.


This is quite false. In fact anon9/frostman posted this on TT:

Quote

Many have been banned for this kind of confrontational style. One banned participant named Frostman documented his experience at Telic Thoughts


A clear attempt at disguising himself.

Quote

In fact anon9 sent a coded message to the site administrator, Guts, saying that he was Frostman.


In fact, I received no such "coded message". I did receive an e-mail from Frostman posing as JackT, who was using proxies to try to prove that he was not anon9/frostman, but still begged me to lift the ban.

This willingness to be deceptive speaks volumes. It shows the one who lacks ethics is frostman, not me.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:02:36, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman writes:
Quote

Incidentally, anon9 is me.  I'd have spoken sooner had I been following things.  I made the comment way-back-when and then promptly forgot about it.  I follow neither Telic Thoughts nor this site.  I did not have any reservations about attempting to raise consciousness at what has proven to be an unethical blog.  Nor did I try to disguise myself or my intentions, since I mentioned the name Frostman and gave links to my posts here.


This is quite false. In fact anon9/frostman posted this on TT:

Quote

Many have been banned for this kind of confrontational style. One banned participant named Frostman documented his experience at Telic Thoughts


A clear attempt at disguising himself.

Quote

In fact anon9 sent a coded message to the site administrator, Guts, saying that he was Frostman.


In fact, I received no such "coded message". I did receive an e-mail from Frostman posing as JackT, who was using proxies to try to prove that he was not anon9/frostman, but still begged me to lift the ban.

This willingness to be deceptive speaks volumes. It shows the one who lacks ethics is frostman, not me.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:10:54, Link
Author: Guts
How would you know this is a science blog? You're obviously scientifically illiterate.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:10:54, Link
Author: Guts
How would you know this is a science blog? You're obviously scientifically illiterate.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:23:49, Link
Author: Guts
I'll post another example of deception, this time from steve:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

He claims that we moderated his comment, and yet here it is on the live site:

http://telicthoughts.com/aiguys-computer/#comment-193776

Date: 2008/07/06 02:23:49, Link
Author: Guts
I'll post another example of deception, this time from steve:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

He claims that we moderated his comment, and yet here it is on the live site:

http://telicthoughts.com/aiguys-computer/#comment-193776

Date: 2008/07/06 02:27:08, Link
Author: Guts
It'll be fun excersize for the comming weeks to continue to point out just how deceptive the denizens of AE can be, perhaps even occasionally cross post it to AE. See you guys later.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:27:08, Link
Author: Guts
It'll be fun excersize for the comming weeks to continue to point out just how deceptive the denizens of AE can be, perhaps even occasionally cross post it to AE. See you guys later.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:28:34, Link
Author: Guts
oops i meant "exercise"  and cross post it to TT. You guys should get out of the dark ages, these board functions suck.

Date: 2008/07/06 02:28:34, Link
Author: Guts
oops i meant "exercise"  and cross post it to TT. You guys should get out of the dark ages, these board functions suck.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:18:06, Link
Author: Guts
yeah but Dr. GH  you're nothing but an alcoholic, so you're not in any way credible.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:18:06, Link
Author: Guts
yeah but Dr. GH  you're nothing but an alcoholic, so you're not in any way credible.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:29:55, Link
Author: Guts
Yeah you creationists are unreliable , you are all no different from creationists.What with your ultra darwinist beliefs, its pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:29:55, Link
Author: Guts
Yeah you creationists are unreliable , you are all no different from creationists.What with your ultra darwinist beliefs, its pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:58:25, Link
Author: Guts
Dam even my blog has more complex functions then this piece of shit board. you guys must be dumbasses.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:58:25, Link
Author: Guts
Dam even my blog has more complex functions then this piece of shit board. you guys must be dumbasses.

Date: 2008/07/06 04:59:12, Link
Author: Guts
"than this" stupid board

Date: 2008/07/06 04:59:12, Link
Author: Guts
"than this" stupid board

Date: 2008/07/06 05:03:32, Link
Author: Guts
I have more evidence for my position than you have for the existence of your own brain. Please

Date: 2008/07/06 05:03:32, Link
Author: Guts
I have more evidence for my position than you have for the existence of your own brain. Please

Date: 2008/07/06 05:10:51, Link
Author: Guts
I'll debate any of you any time any day, I've been doing it for years. Notice how steve stays clear away from any of my technical blogs. It's because he's scientifically illiterate.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:10:51, Link
Author: Guts
I'll debate any of you any time any day, I've been doing it for years. Notice how steve stays clear away from any of my technical blogs. It's because he's scientifically illiterate.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:15:35, Link
Author: Guts
Doesn't that bother you guys? That even your own moderator can't debate the important issues? If I was a part of this board, it would bother me.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:20:21, Link
Author: Guts
Right here. Come at me, I dare you.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:20:21, Link
Author: Guts
Right here. Come at me, I dare you.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:23:10, Link
Author: Guts
You don't know my position? That's pathetic, you're completely ignorant and yet you let this thread continue, pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:23:10, Link
Author: Guts
You don't know my position? That's pathetic, you're completely ignorant and yet you let this thread continue, pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:28:59, Link
Author: Guts
It seems to me that you are completely ignorant. You automatically assumed from the start that my position was wrong. But what position was that? The one you made up in your head? You don't even know my position? This thread is longer than most in this forum, it's pathetic to think you don't even know my position. What a waste of brain cells you are.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:28:59, Link
Author: Guts
It seems to me that you are completely ignorant. You automatically assumed from the start that my position was wrong. But what position was that? The one you made up in your head? You don't even know my position? This thread is longer than most in this forum, it's pathetic to think you don't even know my position. What a waste of brain cells you are.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:29:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,05:28)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:23)
You don't know my position? That's pathetic, you're completely ignorant and yet you let this thread continue, pathetic.

What's wrong with making sure your position is not misrepresented? Shouldn't take long.

you guys are the masters of misrepresentation. I've written many blogs , why not come at me from that stand point, unless you're afraid.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:29:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,05:28)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:23)
You don't know my position? That's pathetic, you're completely ignorant and yet you let this thread continue, pathetic.

What's wrong with making sure your position is not misrepresented? Shouldn't take long.

you guys are the masters of misrepresentation. I've written many blogs , why not come at me from that stand point, unless you're afraid.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:30:24, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:29)
Quote
You don't know my position? That's pathetic,


Your position is pathetic?

Nevertheless, we would like to see you take on oldman. I am curious to discover what the well-dressed emperor is wearing this summer.

No you're post is pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:30:24, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:29)
Quote
You don't know my position? That's pathetic,


Your position is pathetic?

Nevertheless, we would like to see you take on oldman. I am curious to discover what the well-dressed emperor is wearing this summer.

No you're post is pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:32:21, Link
Author: Guts
"your" damn this board sucks.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:32:21, Link
Author: Guts
"your" damn this board sucks.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:35:40, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,05:33)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:30)
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:29)
 
Quote
You don't know my position? That's pathetic,


Your position is pathetic?

Nevertheless, we would like to see you take on oldman. I am curious to discover what the well-dressed emperor is wearing this summer.

No you're post is pathetic.

Are you going to do any actual debating (the points brought forth by oldman seem like a good starting point) or are you going to do the internet tough guy routine in perpetuity?

I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate. And make no mistake, you are weak.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:35:40, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,05:33)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:30)
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:29)
 
Quote
You don't know my position? That's pathetic,


Your position is pathetic?

Nevertheless, we would like to see you take on oldman. I am curious to discover what the well-dressed emperor is wearing this summer.

No you're post is pathetic.

Are you going to do any actual debating (the points brought forth by oldman seem like a good starting point) or are you going to do the internet tough guy routine in perpetuity?

I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate. And make no mistake, you are weak.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:37:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Obviously this is the key here Guts, can you make such a prediction? Or is "DNA is complex" it?


I could even make the case that elephants are complex. You still won't be anywhere close to my position.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:37:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Obviously this is the key here Guts, can you make such a prediction? Or is "DNA is complex" it?


I could even make the case that elephants are complex. You still won't be anywhere close to my position.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:41:12, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

As you've backed out of even stating your position clearly for the record it's obvious you are intractable in your head-in-the-sand position.


Thanks for once again admitting that you are completely ignorant of my position. It's awfully strange though that the very existence of this thread doesn't bother you given your admitted ignorance. Seems more like you're brainwashed.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:41:12, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

As you've backed out of even stating your position clearly for the record it's obvious you are intractable in your head-in-the-sand position.


Thanks for once again admitting that you are completely ignorant of my position. It's awfully strange though that the very existence of this thread doesn't bother you given your admitted ignorance. Seems more like you're brainwashed.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:42:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Just cut and paste something from one of your "technical blogs" then if the idea of telling people who might not be familiar with your position (and trust me, that'll be 99.9% of people here) is so offensive.


Or better yet, try refuing any of my technical blogs. You can't.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:42:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Just cut and paste something from one of your "technical blogs" then if the idea of telling people who might not be familiar with your position (and trust me, that'll be 99.9% of people here) is so offensive.


Or better yet, try refuing any of my technical blogs. You can't.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:43:41, Link
Author: Guts
refuting, dam you dumbasses can't even implement a simple edit function. How dumb is that?

Date: 2008/07/06 05:43:41, Link
Author: Guts
refuting, dam you dumbasses can't even implement a simple edit function. How dumb is that?

Date: 2008/07/06 05:44:44, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:42)
Quote
I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate.


Would a separate thread be appropriate, (assuming there are going to be more than a couple of comments)?

No no, no seperate thread, come at me here.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:44:44, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:42)
Quote
I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate.


Would a separate thread be appropriate, (assuming there are going to be more than a couple of comments)?

No no, no seperate thread, come at me here.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:45:59, Link
Author: Guts
The EF? lol again, you are completely ignorant of my position. The EF is as much of a joke as the assertion that steve can argue scientific topics.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:45:59, Link
Author: Guts
The EF? lol again, you are completely ignorant of my position. The EF is as much of a joke as the assertion that steve can argue scientific topics.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:47:47, Link
Author: Guts
So I wonder what the point of this thread is then if no one knows my position. Perhaps that will become clear in the comming weeks.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:47:47, Link
Author: Guts
So I wonder what the point of this thread is then if no one knows my position. Perhaps that will become clear in the comming weeks.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:48:55, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,05:47)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:44)
 
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:42)
 
Quote
I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate.


Would a separate thread be appropriate, (assuming there are going to be more than a couple of comments)?

No no, no seperate thread, come at me here.

What do you mean?

On the one hand you are saying "I don't debate people who don't know my position" and on the other you are saying "you are too intellectually challenged to debate me"

Both cannot be true.

Still, in your world, perhaps they can both be true and that's how you and people like you make your way in the world.

I never said "I don't debate people who don't know my position" Why are you lying? I just said it was interesting, given the existence of this thread, that people don't know my position.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:48:55, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,05:47)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:44)
 
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,05:42)
 
Quote
I'm going to show you that you are weak in terms of intellectual debate.


Would a separate thread be appropriate, (assuming there are going to be more than a couple of comments)?

No no, no seperate thread, come at me here.

What do you mean?

On the one hand you are saying "I don't debate people who don't know my position" and on the other you are saying "you are too intellectually challenged to debate me"

Both cannot be true.

Still, in your world, perhaps they can both be true and that's how you and people like you make your way in the world.

I never said "I don't debate people who don't know my position" Why are you lying? I just said it was interesting, given the existence of this thread, that people don't know my position.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:52:27, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman,

Isn't it batshit insane, to refer to yourself in the third person. I truly think that you need psychological help, and if you e-mail me again, I can refer you to some experts that can help you.

I can post the relevant comment you left if you "blacked out" because of your "problem" and can't remember.

It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:52:27, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman,

Isn't it batshit insane, to refer to yourself in the third person. I truly think that you need psychological help, and if you e-mail me again, I can refer you to some experts that can help you.

I can post the relevant comment you left if you "blacked out" because of your "problem" and can't remember.

It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:57:42, Link
Author: Guts
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

Date: 2008/07/06 05:57:42, Link
Author: Guts
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:03:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,06:01)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

Well, since you seem to have changed your position, I think it would be a good thing if you could define your position as it currently stands, in order to get rid of any misconceptions.

How in the world could you know I changed my position if you don't even know it? Bizarre.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:03:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,06:01)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,11:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

Well, since you seem to have changed your position, I think it would be a good thing if you could define your position as it currently stands, in order to get rid of any misconceptions.

How in the world could you know I changed my position if you don't even know it? Bizarre.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:04:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:02)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

And so it begins.

I must say Guts, I think this is the fastest ever transition from "challenge to debate" to "ignoring awkward comments" we've ever had.

Grats.

Why would you say that? You don't even know my position, so it's not even possible that you could even debate me. It shows your lack of intellect really. Multiple pages of this thread, and you don't even know my position? How is that not hilarious.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:04:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:02)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

And so it begins.

I must say Guts, I think this is the fastest ever transition from "challenge to debate" to "ignoring awkward comments" we've ever had.

Grats.

Why would you say that? You don't even know my position, so it's not even possible that you could even debate me. It shows your lack of intellect really. Multiple pages of this thread, and you don't even know my position? How is that not hilarious.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:08:52, Link
Author: Guts
How do you know I changed my position on the EF? I actually did defend it at one point, not because I agreed with it but because it was being misrepresented but that doesn't mean I espouse it, that is a completely different issue.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:08:52, Link
Author: Guts
How do you know I changed my position on the EF? I actually did defend it at one point, not because I agreed with it but because it was being misrepresented but that doesn't mean I espouse it, that is a completely different issue.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:10:32, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:08)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:04)
 
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:02)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

And so it begins.

I must say Guts, I think this is the fastest ever transition from "challenge to debate" to "ignoring awkward comments" we've ever had.

Grats.

Why would you say that? You don't even know my position, so it's not even possible that you could even debate me. It shows your lack of intellect really. Multiple pages of this thread, and you don't even know my position? How is that not hilarious.

Guts, have I said I don't know what your position is?

OK, what do you want to debate about?

Shall we try that?

How about "how the explanatory filter is a worthless construct that is only used to fool the less mathematical into believing that design detection has a foundation in reality when in fact it's just the math icing on a cake of nothing"

How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:10:32, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:08)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:04)
 
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:02)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,05:57)
Yes to people who are psycho that would be funny, don't blame me.

And so it begins.

I must say Guts, I think this is the fastest ever transition from "challenge to debate" to "ignoring awkward comments" we've ever had.

Grats.

Why would you say that? You don't even know my position, so it's not even possible that you could even debate me. It shows your lack of intellect really. Multiple pages of this thread, and you don't even know my position? How is that not hilarious.

Guts, have I said I don't know what your position is?

OK, what do you want to debate about?

Shall we try that?

How about "how the explanatory filter is a worthless construct that is only used to fool the less mathematical into believing that design detection has a foundation in reality when in fact it's just the math icing on a cake of nothing"

How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:11:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Frostman @ July 06 2008,06:09)
Nelson Alonso aka Guts:
Quote
It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

I thought I've seen thick skulls before, but yours has got to be the thickest I have ever seen.  For the third time: the coded message was that I called you Nelson Alonso, not Guts.

To witness your disintegration into a flailing ball of petulant 13-year-old comments here, right now, on this forum, is so awesome, Nelson.  Please, continue, continue.

Frostman, you still haven't told me why you refer to yourself in the third person. Isn't that utterly insane? Do you think your mother would be proud of something like that?

Date: 2008/07/06 06:11:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Frostman @ July 06 2008,06:09)
Nelson Alonso aka Guts:
Quote
It's also interesting that you said you "sent me" a coded message, I received no such message. Why are you lying? The reason is obvious.

I thought I've seen thick skulls before, but yours has got to be the thickest I have ever seen.  For the third time: the coded message was that I called you Nelson Alonso, not Guts.

To witness your disintegration into a flailing ball of petulant 13-year-old comments here, right now, on this forum, is so awesome, Nelson.  Please, continue, continue.

Frostman, you still haven't told me why you refer to yourself in the third person. Isn't that utterly insane? Do you think your mother would be proud of something like that?

Date: 2008/07/06 06:15:43, Link
Author: Guts
I don't get it, I defend against falsehood, even the EF, if you're so utterly stupid that you don't get the EF, I will call you out on it. But it doesn't mean I espouse it. So i don't get your point.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:15:43, Link
Author: Guts
I don't get it, I defend against falsehood, even the EF, if you're so utterly stupid that you don't get the EF, I will call you out on it. But it doesn't mean I espouse it. So i don't get your point.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:16:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:15)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how  desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

You're a moron and you should realize this undisputable fact of life. Ok?

Date: 2008/07/06 06:16:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:15)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:10)
How about we debate your complete and utter Incompetence ? That seems like a good debate.

Lets. It simply shows how  desperate you are to avoid engaging on substantive issues.

You're a moron and you should realize this undisputable fact of life. Ok?

Date: 2008/07/06 06:20:58, Link
Author: Guts
No thats me conceding that you're a retard.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:20:58, Link
Author: Guts
No thats me conceding that you're a retard.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:27:13, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,06:24)
Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:27:13, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Alan Fox @ July 06 2008,06:24)
Ah I think Nelson/Guts is attempting the debating tactic of provoking a banning, sometimes referred to as "death by Cop", I believe.

This is all very illuminating, Sir.

(Edited for spelling)

No i'm trying to provoke actual thought, which is absent here. No one knows my position? Are you friggin kidding me? This thread is pages and pages long, and accusations abound, but no one knows my position? How batshit insane is that. I could write a book on it.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:34:13, Link
Author: Guts
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:34:13, Link
Author: Guts
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:38:59, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:35)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:34)
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Ah, tactic #73

Right now I'm too busy to demonstrate why you are all idiots, but *soon* I will, just you wait and see

Sure, why not do it now Guts? What's stopping you?

Whats stopping me is that despite the fact that I have written multiple blogs, none of them have been responded to here, I just keep getting the utterly stupid question "what do you think about the EF", how utterly stupid is that? I mean really. You guys don't realize how stupid you are? That seems unlikely to me.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:38:59, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 06 2008,06:35)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,06:34)
So I've made no kind of point, and yet, this thread is more than 10 pages long, and accusations abound.  That requires professional attention from psychiatrists, I will demonstrate this in the comming weeks.

Ah, tactic #73

Right now I'm too busy to demonstrate why you are all idiots, but *soon* I will, just you wait and see

Sure, why not do it now Guts? What's stopping you?

Whats stopping me is that despite the fact that I have written multiple blogs, none of them have been responded to here, I just keep getting the utterly stupid question "what do you think about the EF", how utterly stupid is that? I mean really. You guys don't realize how stupid you are? That seems unlikely to me.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:50:10, Link
Author: Guts
Because this thread is obviously not about evidence or logic, it's about who can throw the best turd. You hit the nail on the head there. You can go to Telicthoughts.com and click on my name and read all my blogs, in fact I challenge anyone to do so.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:50:10, Link
Author: Guts
Because this thread is obviously not about evidence or logic, it's about who can throw the best turd. You hit the nail on the head there. You can go to Telicthoughts.com and click on my name and read all my blogs, in fact I challenge anyone to do so.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:52:29, Link
Author: Guts
But the bottom line is that AE is not about rational debate it's about cultivating flamers. I've dealt with this as soon as I banned the first flamer, keiths, and since then this blog has been an undeserved target.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:52:29, Link
Author: Guts
But the bottom line is that AE is not about rational debate it's about cultivating flamers. I've dealt with this as soon as I banned the first flamer, keiths, and since then this blog has been an undeserved target.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:53:34, Link
Author: Guts
But hey, you guys want to play? I'm game. Lets play.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:53:34, Link
Author: Guts
But hey, you guys want to play? I'm game. Lets play.

Date: 2008/07/06 06:59:10, Link
Author: Guts
Go to any blog I wrote and click there, not on the sidebar you twit

Date: 2008/07/06 06:59:10, Link
Author: Guts
Go to any blog I wrote and click there, not on the sidebar you twit

Date: 2008/07/06 07:00:05, Link
Author: Guts
Safety of TT ? I never said any such thing you're a moron

Date: 2008/07/06 07:00:05, Link
Author: Guts
Safety of TT ? I never said any such thing you're a moron

Date: 2008/07/06 07:04:48, Link
Author: Guts
Thanks, but I still think you're a retard. Flattery won't get you anywhere.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:04:48, Link
Author: Guts
Thanks, but I still think you're a retard. Flattery won't get you anywhere.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:06:12, Link
Author: Guts
Carlson using stars to simulate "emotes" that is so weird, i gotta tell ya.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:06:12, Link
Author: Guts
Carlson using stars to simulate "emotes" that is so weird, i gotta tell ya.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:17:24, Link
Author: Guts
"not much substantive content" is just you saying you can't respond because you're stupid. Just admit it.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:17:24, Link
Author: Guts
"not much substantive content" is just you saying you can't respond because you're stupid. Just admit it.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:19:24, Link
Author: Guts
Alan seriously, just admit you can't respond because you don't have the knowledge necessary to respond, you'll gain more credibility by doing so.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:19:24, Link
Author: Guts
Alan seriously, just admit you can't respond because you don't have the knowledge necessary to respond, you'll gain more credibility by doing so.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:24:03, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But when I was on Telic Thoughts and I asked you for your position, you said "I've stated it many times already, it's all here" and refused to be specific.

People who press you on the point get banned.


More lies. In fact no one has asked me for my position, much less have been banned for it. When will the lies stop?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:24:03, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But when I was on Telic Thoughts and I asked you for your position, you said "I've stated it many times already, it's all here" and refused to be specific.

People who press you on the point get banned.


More lies. In fact no one has asked me for my position, much less have been banned for it. When will the lies stop?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:25:59, Link
Author: Guts
Alan Fox, you still there? You gonna respond to any of my technical blogs?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:25:59, Link
Author: Guts
Alan Fox, you still there? You gonna respond to any of my technical blogs?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:29:52, Link
Author: Guts
lol so I'll take that as a no. Pathetic. Can't even own up to what you consider a "creationist", really? a "creationist" made you look stupid? Wow Alan, just, wow.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:29:52, Link
Author: Guts
lol so I'll take that as a no. Pathetic. Can't even own up to what you consider a "creationist", really? a "creationist" made you look stupid? Wow Alan, just, wow.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:31:54, Link
Author: Guts
My position is that you're a moron.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:31:54, Link
Author: Guts
My position is that you're a moron.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:38:10, Link
Author: Guts
From what I gather with this thread, it should be possible for you to take any random scientific one, and demostrate that I am mistaken, you can't even do one? How pathetic is that Alan, I mean really, not one of your choosing? How does that not show that your IQ level is that of a rock?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:38:10, Link
Author: Guts
From what I gather with this thread, it should be possible for you to take any random scientific one, and demostrate that I am mistaken, you can't even do one? How pathetic is that Alan, I mean really, not one of your choosing? How does that not show that your IQ level is that of a rock?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:45:34, Link
Author: Guts
Based on the fact that he can't even take a single one of my technical blog posts and rip it apart.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:45:34, Link
Author: Guts
Based on the fact that he can't even take a single one of my technical blog posts and rip it apart.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:47:57, Link
Author: Guts
I'm not the one that came here and started a mindless thread to attack my website, if you have something substantive to say against anything write, say it. So far, I only see faggotry, which is pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:47:57, Link
Author: Guts
I'm not the one that came here and started a mindless thread to attack my website, if you have something substantive to say against anything write, say it. So far, I only see faggotry, which is pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:49:40, Link
Author: Guts
Alan Fox, come on I'm getting sleepy are you seriously this incompetent ?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:49:40, Link
Author: Guts
Alan Fox, come on I'm getting sleepy are you seriously this incompetent ?

Date: 2008/07/06 07:53:10, Link
Author: Guts
Ok , thats ok, this is simply a consquence of getting yourself "in over your head" maybe you'll be a little more hesitant next time though.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:53:10, Link
Author: Guts
Ok , thats ok, this is simply a consquence of getting yourself "in over your head" maybe you'll be a little more hesitant next time though.

Date: 2008/07/06 07:56:33, Link
Author: Guts
I'm hotter than that actually.

Frostman,

For the third time, tell me what your mom thinks of you talking to yourself in the third person. I'm sure she disapproves. I mean, thats just nuts .

Date: 2008/07/06 07:56:33, Link
Author: Guts
I'm hotter than that actually.

Frostman,

For the third time, tell me what your mom thinks of you talking to yourself in the third person. I'm sure she disapproves. I mean, thats just nuts .

Date: 2008/07/06 08:03:48, Link
Author: Guts
Wel I offered my writings and even showed where you can find them, but through it all, and you look back through all these pages, all you find is deception on the part of the denizens of AE, not a single one refutes anything I have written on TT. Tell me how does that not show that you are all stupid? I mean come on.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:03:48, Link
Author: Guts
Wel I offered my writings and even showed where you can find them, but through it all, and you look back through all these pages, all you find is deception on the part of the denizens of AE, not a single one refutes anything I have written on TT. Tell me how does that not show that you are all stupid? I mean come on.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:08:29, Link
Author: Guts
So I'm the one that comes across as an asshole, how stupid is that. Pages and pages of false accusations , no one even knows my position, no one can refute any of my technical blogs, and yet I'm still the one that comes across as an asshole. Waves and waves of trolls come to my blog to harrass us not with arguments but with retarded tactics, and yet I'm the one who comes across as an asshole.

I call shenanigans.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:08:29, Link
Author: Guts
So I'm the one that comes across as an asshole, how stupid is that. Pages and pages of false accusations , no one even knows my position, no one can refute any of my technical blogs, and yet I'm still the one that comes across as an asshole. Waves and waves of trolls come to my blog to harrass us not with arguments but with retarded tactics, and yet I'm the one who comes across as an asshole.

I call shenanigans.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:12:05, Link
Author: Guts
Look in the mirror to see the asshole, look in the mirror.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:12:05, Link
Author: Guts
Look in the mirror to see the asshole, look in the mirror.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:20:12, Link
Author: Guts
It's very simple, go to TT , click on my name ( not on the sidebar like Alan Faux did, click on my name on a blog i've written) and then refute it. It's very simple, I'm surprised actually that no one has done so yet, it's actually quite laughable.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:20:12, Link
Author: Guts
It's very simple, go to TT , click on my name ( not on the sidebar like Alan Faux did, click on my name on a blog i've written) and then refute it. It's very simple, I'm surprised actually that no one has done so yet, it's actually quite laughable.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:22:23, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Name one


My pleasure.

Frostman wrote this:

Quote

Incidentally, anon9 is me.  I'd have spoken sooner had I been following things.  I made the comment way-back-when and then promptly forgot about it.  I follow neither Telic Thoughts nor this site.  I did not have any reservations about attempting to raise consciousness at what has proven to be an unethical blog.  Nor did I try to disguise myself or my intentions, since I mentioned the name Frostman and gave links to my posts here.



This is quite false. In fact anon9/frostman posted this on TT:

Quote

Many have been banned for this kind of confrontational style. One banned participant named Frostman documented his experience at Telic Thoughts


Again this is just a sample of the level of deception here.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:22:23, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Name one


My pleasure.

Frostman wrote this:

Quote

Incidentally, anon9 is me.  I'd have spoken sooner had I been following things.  I made the comment way-back-when and then promptly forgot about it.  I follow neither Telic Thoughts nor this site.  I did not have any reservations about attempting to raise consciousness at what has proven to be an unethical blog.  Nor did I try to disguise myself or my intentions, since I mentioned the name Frostman and gave links to my posts here.



This is quite false. In fact anon9/frostman posted this on TT:

Quote

Many have been banned for this kind of confrontational style. One banned participant named Frostman documented his experience at Telic Thoughts


Again this is just a sample of the level of deception here.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:23:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

gutless otherwise provides evidence that it can carry on a worthwhile discussion


lol, you're in the wrong place. This is a turd throwing fest, if you want meaningful discussion, go elsewhere. AE isn't called "the swamp" by pretty much everyone for nothing.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:23:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

gutless otherwise provides evidence that it can carry on a worthwhile discussion


lol, you're in the wrong place. This is a turd throwing fest, if you want meaningful discussion, go elsewhere. AE isn't called "the swamp" by pretty much everyone for nothing.

Date: 2008/07/06 08:29:07, Link
Author: Guts
Zachriel writes:
Quote

But have they been "barred"? I guess the Memory Hole is inoperative or people could see the dastardly post that led to my being banned barred from the thread.


Zach, your problem is that you can't handle logic and evidence, otherwise you wouldn't write such tripe. In fact, if you would look at the memory hole, you'll see your thread derailing post in all it's glory. How sad :(

Date: 2008/07/06 08:29:07, Link
Author: Guts
Zachriel writes:
Quote

But have they been "barred"? I guess the Memory Hole is inoperative or people could see the dastardly post that led to my being banned barred from the thread.


Zach, your problem is that you can't handle logic and evidence, otherwise you wouldn't write such tripe. In fact, if you would look at the memory hole, you'll see your thread derailing post in all it's glory. How sad :(

Date: 2008/07/06 14:23:05, Link
Author: Guts
No using stars to do emotes is gay.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:23:05, Link
Author: Guts
No using stars to do emotes is gay.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:26:15, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

In 90 comments he merely bloviated, despite several polite requests to state a position and have a real intellectual debate. He hurled insults from the very beginning. What part of that makes you proud to be associated with his side?


Yeah welcome to troll city. This is what ID proponents have to deal with on a daily basis.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:26:15, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

In 90 comments he merely bloviated, despite several polite requests to state a position and have a real intellectual debate. He hurled insults from the very beginning. What part of that makes you proud to be associated with his side?


Yeah welcome to troll city. This is what ID proponents have to deal with on a daily basis.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:27:07, Link
Author: Guts
You're the one that mentioned gay first, not me.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:27:07, Link
Author: Guts
You're the one that mentioned gay first, not me.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:29:19, Link
Author: Guts
That doesn't make sense, those are things you do at a lab, but then sometimes you want to come home and relax in front of the computer. Thats when you have to deal with trolls.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:29:19, Link
Author: Guts
That doesn't make sense, those are things you do at a lab, but then sometimes you want to come home and relax in front of the computer. Thats when you have to deal with trolls.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:33:56, Link
Author: Guts
Your dipping outside our conversation pool there.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:33:56, Link
Author: Guts
Your dipping outside our conversation pool there.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:34:45, Link
Author: Guts
What are you talking about, I answer questions on a daily basis whenever I make a blog. I always answer questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:34:45, Link
Author: Guts
What are you talking about, I answer questions on a daily basis whenever I make a blog. I always answer questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:39:43, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman writes:
Quote

see nothing unethical about James Randi sending in posers to expose huckster faith healers like Peter Popoff and his ilk.  Popoff might claim, "But they deceived me, it is they who are unethical!"  


lol Frostman essentially admits that he is a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:39:43, Link
Author: Guts
Frostman writes:
Quote

see nothing unethical about James Randi sending in posers to expose huckster faith healers like Peter Popoff and his ilk.  Popoff might claim, "But they deceived me, it is they who are unethical!"  


lol Frostman essentially admits that he is a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:46:49, Link
Author: Guts
You coyly qualify that with "accommodated by evolutionary theory", anything except creationism can be accommodated by evolutionary theory.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:46:49, Link
Author: Guts
You coyly qualify that with "accommodated by evolutionary theory", anything except creationism can be accommodated by evolutionary theory.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:14, Link
Author: Guts
Thanks Arden, but flatter will get you ... everywhere.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:14, Link
Author: Guts
Thanks Arden, but flatter will get you ... everywhere.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:31, Link
Author: Guts
flattery godddamnit.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:31, Link
Author: Guts
flattery godddamnit.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:57, Link
Author: Guts
When will I be cool enough to get an edit button.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:51:57, Link
Author: Guts
When will I be cool enough to get an edit button.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:54:02, Link
Author: Guts
how would you know that steve? Again, it is quite clear that you are scientifically illiterate. You wouldn't know a scientific revolution if it punched in the face.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:54:02, Link
Author: Guts
how would you know that steve? Again, it is quite clear that you are scientifically illiterate. You wouldn't know a scientific revolution if it punched in the face.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:56:56, Link
Author: Guts
Unless you're not proposing a replacement theory, that is a fundamental flaw in your logic.

Date: 2008/07/06 14:56:56, Link
Author: Guts
Unless you're not proposing a replacement theory, that is a fundamental flaw in your logic.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:00:07, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I suspect you imaine you make art every time you make a turd.


No I meant what I said, the accusation was that I don't answer questions, in fact I answer many questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:00:07, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I suspect you imaine you make art every time you make a turd.


No I meant what I said, the accusation was that I don't answer questions, in fact I answer many questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:02:32, Link
Author: Guts
I'm not dodging anything, that is a direct answer.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:02:32, Link
Author: Guts
I'm not dodging anything, that is a direct answer.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:03:42, Link
Author: Guts
You're projecting Steve.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:03:42, Link
Author: Guts
You're projecting Steve.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:04:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So you refuse to answer Albatrossity's questions?


What part of "direct answer" don't you understand?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:04:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So you refuse to answer Albatrossity's questions?


What part of "direct answer" don't you understand?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:06:56, Link
Author: Guts
lol PCID was never an actual ID journal they invited all kinds of complexity theorists.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:06:56, Link
Author: Guts
lol PCID was never an actual ID journal they invited all kinds of complexity theorists.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:11:16, Link
Author: Guts
Why do you think they invited Kaufmann and other self-organization theorists. You are quite ignorant.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:11:16, Link
Author: Guts
Why do you think they invited Kaufmann and other self-organization theorists. You are quite ignorant.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:13:46, Link
Author: Guts
Albatrossity2,

You cannot possibly take those examples from physics and make a general "law" out of it. Sometimes you will propose an extension to the theory that completes it, especially when you're talking about historical sciences, it just sheds things in a better light. You cannot possibly be serious with those examples from physics.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:13:46, Link
Author: Guts
Albatrossity2,

You cannot possibly take those examples from physics and make a general "law" out of it. Sometimes you will propose an extension to the theory that completes it, especially when you're talking about historical sciences, it just sheds things in a better light. You cannot possibly be serious with those examples from physics.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:14:35, Link
Author: Guts
Steve,

Now it's quite clear that you are both scientifically illiterate and ignorant of basic facts.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:14:35, Link
Author: Guts
Steve,

Now it's quite clear that you are both scientifically illiterate and ignorant of basic facts.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:15:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 06 2008,15:13)
Quote (Nelson @ July 06 2008,13:06)
lol PCID was never an actual ID journal they invited all kinds of complexity theorists.

So all those articles that HAVEN'T appeared in PCID are all by 'complexity theorists'. I see.

The journal never took off. I am not an insider so I don't know what happened and don't care.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:15:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 06 2008,15:13)
Quote (Nelson @ July 06 2008,13:06)
lol PCID was never an actual ID journal they invited all kinds of complexity theorists.

So all those articles that HAVEN'T appeared in PCID are all by 'complexity theorists'. I see.

The journal never took off. I am not an insider so I don't know what happened and don't care.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:17:22, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

It's not a "law", strawboy.

It's an example.


Then why did you even mention them? Thats rather retarded.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:17:22, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

It's not a "law", strawboy.

It's an example.


Then why did you even mention them? Thats rather retarded.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:20:05, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I can understand if you don't go there much Guts. Easy mistake to make. They seem to think it's a journal however


Maybe you should take some basic reading comprehension classes. I never said it wasn't a journal, I said it wasn't specifically an ID journal. Dumbass.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:20:05, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I can understand if you don't go there much Guts. Easy mistake to make. They seem to think it's a journal however


Maybe you should take some basic reading comprehension classes. I never said it wasn't a journal, I said it wasn't specifically an ID journal. Dumbass.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:21:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Because you seem to need examples. That's also why I answered my own questions in a previous comment, to show you how it works. Let's see you try to answer one.


So do you or do you not believe that your examples from physics apply generally?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:21:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Because you seem to need examples. That's also why I answered my own questions in a previous comment, to show you how it works. Let's see you try to answer one.


So do you or do you not believe that your examples from physics apply generally?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:24:32, Link
Author: Guts
Is that english?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:24:32, Link
Author: Guts
Is that english?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:30:03, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

BTW, if it's not ID, why is Dembski on their editorial board?


Once again your reading comprehension is atrocious. I didn't say it wasn't ID either.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:30:03, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

BTW, if it's not ID, why is Dembski on their editorial board?


Once again your reading comprehension is atrocious. I didn't say it wasn't ID either.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:31:39, Link
Author: Guts
Albatross, by your refusal to answer my simple question, I figured you conceded that this qualifier "cannot be accommodated by evolutionary theory" is unnecessary, but now we're back to square one.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:31:39, Link
Author: Guts
Albatross, by your refusal to answer my simple question, I figured you conceded that this qualifier "cannot be accommodated by evolutionary theory" is unnecessary, but now we're back to square one.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:32:16, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So it's ID, and a Journal, but not an ID Journal


Nope, they wanted it to be more general than just ID.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:32:16, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So it's ID, and a Journal, but not an ID Journal


Nope, they wanted it to be more general than just ID.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:33:51, Link
Author: Guts
Where did I say I knew nothing about it?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:33:51, Link
Author: Guts
Where did I say I knew nothing about it?

Date: 2008/07/06 15:35:47, Link
Author: Guts
lol that says I don't know what happened that they stopped publishing and the journal never talk off. Thats not the same as saying I know nothing about it.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:35:47, Link
Author: Guts
lol that says I don't know what happened that they stopped publishing and the journal never talk off. Thats not the same as saying I know nothing about it.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:46:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

What predictions have been made, on the basis of ID principles, that allowed experimental testing, and for which the results of those experiments supported ID?


There are still problematic qualifiers here. Not all predictions lead to actual experiments, there are problems with funding, or something else fundamental. Even post dictions are valid, in which case the experiment or discovery was already made.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:46:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

What predictions have been made, on the basis of ID principles, that allowed experimental testing, and for which the results of those experiments supported ID?


There are still problematic qualifiers here. Not all predictions lead to actual experiments, there are problems with funding, or something else fundamental. Even post dictions are valid, in which case the experiment or discovery was already made.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:49:13, Link
Author: Guts
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:49:13, Link
Author: Guts
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:53:08, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:53:08, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (dnmlthr @ July 06 2008,15:50)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:49)
I couldn't possibly have given a more direct answer.

Then I take it you cannot name a single ID prediction that has passed any form of test, which in itself is an answer as good as any I suppose.

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But there seems to be a fundamental misundersatnding of science and how it is done in this forum.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:57:06, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You can't provide a single example of a single predictive hypothesis and successful experiment made on the basis of ID principles, more than a decade after the notion was first proposed. Not one. But you sure can dance.


Im trying to tease our your fundmental misunderstanding of science. After admitting your problem, comes healing.

Date: 2008/07/06 15:57:06, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You can't provide a single example of a single predictive hypothesis and successful experiment made on the basis of ID principles, more than a decade after the notion was first proposed. Not one. But you sure can dance.


Im trying to tease our your fundmental misunderstanding of science. After admitting your problem, comes healing.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:01:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, and there's nothing ID can explain that evolution can't. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


It's a lot more complex than that. Bayes Theorem seems to imply that there is no difference between prediction and accommodation, because the conditional probabilities used in Bayes Theorem are temporally neutral.  There have been attempts to build such a distinction into a Bayesian epistemology, but the more common move among Bayesians is to deny the importance of the distinction.  For example, Einstein's Relativity Theory got support from the fact that it correctly implied the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, though that information was known long before Einstein formulated the theory.  I myself am sympathetic to the view that accurate prediction provides more confirmational support than accommodation, but most Bayesians would not agree.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:01:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, and there's nothing ID can explain that evolution can't. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


It's a lot more complex than that. Bayes Theorem seems to imply that there is no difference between prediction and accommodation, because the conditional probabilities used in Bayes Theorem are temporally neutral.  There have been attempts to build such a distinction into a Bayesian epistemology, but the more common move among Bayesians is to deny the importance of the distinction.  For example, Einstein's Relativity Theory got support from the fact that it correctly implied the precession of the perihelion of Mercury, though that information was known long before Einstein formulated the theory.  I myself am sympathetic to the view that accurate prediction provides more confirmational support than accommodation, but most Bayesians would not agree.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:03:36, Link
Author: Guts
Because you forgot how to configure it because you're stupid?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:03:36, Link
Author: Guts
Because you forgot how to configure it because you're stupid?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:05:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, but I'm cool with that."


Thats not what I said at all.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:05:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Shorter Nelson: "ID can't predict shit, but I'm cool with that."


Thats not what I said at all.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:08:10, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

No, because that would have entailed more honesty than you're willing to display here.


No it would directly contradict what i believe.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:08:10, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

No, because that would have entailed more honesty than you're willing to display here.


No it would directly contradict what i believe.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:09:53, Link
Author: Guts
lol Steve, maybe you should re-read the beginning pages of these threads where there is insult after insult all directed at TT bloggers. It's a little too late to tell people to take the high ground.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:09:53, Link
Author: Guts
lol Steve, maybe you should re-read the beginning pages of these threads where there is insult after insult all directed at TT bloggers. It's a little too late to tell people to take the high ground.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:16:02, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Name the dozens. Show us how science is done. Put up or shut up, since you're supposedly the only scientifically literate one here. Quit dodging the questions.


You didn't even understand what I wrote, thats why you can't respond.

By the way, I only use insults because thats the language that you all speak here. It's the norm. You guys drew first blood.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:16:02, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Name the dozens. Show us how science is done. Put up or shut up, since you're supposedly the only scientifically literate one here. Quit dodging the questions.


You didn't even understand what I wrote, thats why you can't respond.

By the way, I only use insults because thats the language that you all speak here. It's the norm. You guys drew first blood.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:17:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:15)
Oh, yeah, we definitely insult you guys when you act ridiculous. But we don't have to act as cretinous as you. I've never gone to TT and called it a 'piece of shit', for instance.

Of course not, because it's not a piece of shit. I never called AE a piece of shit, I called it's board functions. But now I see that many of the more complex functions are hidden from new users, so now I'll AE an asshole for not giving me all the functions.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:17:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:15)
Oh, yeah, we definitely insult you guys when you act ridiculous. But we don't have to act as cretinous as you. I've never gone to TT and called it a 'piece of shit', for instance.

Of course not, because it's not a piece of shit. I never called AE a piece of shit, I called it's board functions. But now I see that many of the more complex functions are hidden from new users, so now I'll AE an asshole for not giving me all the functions.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:18:23, Link
Author: Guts
"so now I'll call"

Date: 2008/07/06 16:18:23, Link
Author: Guts
"so now I'll call"

Date: 2008/07/06 16:21:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But it's not important, so I won't name any. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


Where did I say leave me alone?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:21:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But it's not important, so I won't name any. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


Where did I say leave me alone?

Date: 2008/07/06 16:24:14, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But it's not important, so I won't name any. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


In fact, this whole sentence is wrong, it's not that it's not important, it's that it raises many issues. Let me just say that when P(B/A) = P(A/B) = P(A/A), then the data A maximally confirm B. because they raise its probability from whatever its prior probability was to one.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:24:14, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I could name dozens of ID predictions that have passed tests. But it's not important, so I won't name any. Now leave me alone, dumbass!"


In fact, this whole sentence is wrong, it's not that it's not important, it's that it raises many issues. Let me just say that when P(B/A) = P(A/B) = P(A/A), then the data A maximally confirm B. because they raise its probability from whatever its prior probability was to one.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:26:39, Link
Author: Guts
I sure can name 10. But like I said it raises many issues.Such as, you can never derive data points from probabilistic theories, but only probabilities of data points

Date: 2008/07/06 16:26:39, Link
Author: Guts
I sure can name 10. But like I said it raises many issues.Such as, you can never derive data points from probabilistic theories, but only probabilities of data points

Date: 2008/07/06 16:29:24, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I don't believe you can name *any*, much less ten.


I can name dozens . But I think what you are looking for is a criterion by which to distinguish a theoretical explanation of the data from a mere redescription of it.  Call your criterion the "parameter counting criterion".  I don't believe this is a very good criterion for distinguishing theories from non-theories.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:29:24, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I don't believe you can name *any*, much less ten.


I can name dozens . But I think what you are looking for is a criterion by which to distinguish a theoretical explanation of the data from a mere redescription of it.  Call your criterion the "parameter counting criterion".  I don't believe this is a very good criterion for distinguishing theories from non-theories.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:33:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

And yet you refuse to name *any*. Imagine that.


It's not that I refuse to name any, it's that is the prior probabilities to which the theorem is applied that determine whether simpler theories are selectively confirmed over more complex theories or whether more complex theories are selectively favored over simpler ones.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:33:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

And yet you refuse to name *any*. Imagine that.


It's not that I refuse to name any, it's that is the prior probabilities to which the theorem is applied that determine whether simpler theories are selectively confirmed over more complex theories or whether more complex theories are selectively favored over simpler ones.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:34:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?


Actually there are dozens of successful predictions made by ID.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:34:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Oh, what are ten successful predictions made by ID?


Actually there are dozens of successful predictions made by ID.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:37:51, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Anyway, how about those dozens of predictions?


I already listed them fully, but it was deleted by steve.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:37:51, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Anyway, how about those dozens of predictions?


I already listed them fully, but it was deleted by steve.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:39:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But they're secret


I keep trying to explain this to you. but you're not understanding. It's not that it's secret.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:39:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But they're secret


I keep trying to explain this to you. but you're not understanding. It's not that it's secret.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:40:21, Link
Author: Guts
That post before last was a joke by the way.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:40:21, Link
Author: Guts
That post before last was a joke by the way.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:48:36, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You cannot even list 10.


I can list dozens, I am just trying to explain basic issues first. But no one understands.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:48:36, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You cannot even list 10.


I can list dozens, I am just trying to explain basic issues first. But no one understands.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:49:34, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:48)
Several of us are checking out. Guts is just tap dancing. He's got nothing to say.

Quote

Several of us are checking out. Guts is just tap dancing. He's got nothing to say.


I'm just bored at the moment. I'll likely get into some more serious AE errors and deceit in the comming days.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:49:34, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,16:48)
Several of us are checking out. Guts is just tap dancing. He's got nothing to say.

Quote

Several of us are checking out. Guts is just tap dancing. He's got nothing to say.


I'm just bored at the moment. I'll likely get into some more serious AE errors and deceit in the comming days.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:53:24, Link
Author: Guts
No I'm not a fraud. Actually i really did explain some fundamental issues lol. Thats the ironic thing.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:53:24, Link
Author: Guts
No I'm not a fraud. Actually i really did explain some fundamental issues lol. Thats the ironic thing.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:58:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

17 pages of spewing insults and failure to engage in any substantiative discussion


That pretty much describes this entire thread.

Quote

Heck, just linking to a post that outlines your position would be sufficient to get things rolling, if you were interested in honest discourse.


I'm not here to defend my position I'm here to point out the lying that is going on here. For example, Frostman has already admitted to lying as a result, so it appears I am effective.

Date: 2008/07/06 16:58:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

17 pages of spewing insults and failure to engage in any substantiative discussion


That pretty much describes this entire thread.

Quote

Heck, just linking to a post that outlines your position would be sufficient to get things rolling, if you were interested in honest discourse.


I'm not here to defend my position I'm here to point out the lying that is going on here. For example, Frostman has already admitted to lying as a result, so it appears I am effective.

Date: 2008/07/06 17:01:36, Link
Author: Guts
steve, we've already been through this, you understand anything about science, so you wouldn't know.

Date: 2008/07/06 17:02:00, Link
Author: Guts
don't*

Date: 2008/07/06 17:02:00, Link
Author: Guts
don't*

Date: 2008/07/06 17:38:09, Link
Author: Guts
It's my pleasure

Date: 2008/07/06 17:38:09, Link
Author: Guts
It's my pleasure

Date: 2008/07/06 19:02:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But why? Why are you here?


I thought I already made it crystal clear why I am here. I exposed two instances of deceit both from steve and Frostman, and I will continue to do so, even with the science. I'm not here to explain and defend my position, I go to TT and blog for that.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:02:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But why? Why are you here?


I thought I already made it crystal clear why I am here. I exposed two instances of deceit both from steve and Frostman, and I will continue to do so, even with the science. I'm not here to explain and defend my position, I go to TT and blog for that.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:06:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So that was about 100 people who read Nelson's being spanked


How was I spanked? I documented two instances of lies about my blog, and one of the liars admitted it. I'd say i'm doing pretty good.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:06:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So that was about 100 people who read Nelson's being spanked


How was I spanked? I documented two instances of lies about my blog, and one of the liars admitted it. I'd say i'm doing pretty good.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:13:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Are yes... I'll only discuss at my fortress of creobottery where reality based comments get disappeared.


Which ones? If you really feel that way, feel free to take any one of my blogs and critique it here, and I'll respond.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:13:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Are yes... I'll only discuss at my fortress of creobottery where reality based comments get disappeared.


Which ones? If you really feel that way, feel free to take any one of my blogs and critique it here, and I'll respond.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:18:03, Link
Author: Guts
Like I said, I'm not here to explain to a bunch of trolls my position, it's a complete waste of time. I'm only here to expose the lies and deceit that crop up here. It's very simple concept to understand.

You = troll

Me  = troll smasher, not patient teacher

Date: 2008/07/06 19:18:03, Link
Author: Guts
Like I said, I'm not here to explain to a bunch of trolls my position, it's a complete waste of time. I'm only here to expose the lies and deceit that crop up here. It's very simple concept to understand.

You = troll

Me  = troll smasher, not patient teacher

Date: 2008/07/06 19:21:50, Link
Author: Guts
Yes I came here to troll, but in the process , I have a purpose here, which I already accomplished in part.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:21:50, Link
Author: Guts
Yes I came here to troll, but in the process , I have a purpose here, which I already accomplished in part.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:22:48, Link
Author: Guts
lol , he calls me a "Telic Tard" and then says he's not trolling. You're ridiculous.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:22:48, Link
Author: Guts
lol , he calls me a "Telic Tard" and then says he's not trolling. You're ridiculous.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:23:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Describe a SINGLE instance of hypothesis testing uniquely driven by ID theory. A quick description of the experimental prediction (and the theoretical basis thereof), why those predictions differ from those derived from orthodox evolutionary theory, in what sense the null result would disconfirm a tenet of ID, the actual results, and the implications for future empirical work.


How do you feel about the fact that your moderator is liar?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:23:29, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Describe a SINGLE instance of hypothesis testing uniquely driven by ID theory. A quick description of the experimental prediction (and the theoretical basis thereof), why those predictions differ from those derived from orthodox evolutionary theory, in what sense the null result would disconfirm a tenet of ID, the actual results, and the implications for future empirical work.


How do you feel about the fact that your moderator is liar?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:27:18, Link
Author: Guts
And yet you can't refute a single part of any of my blogs right here in your own board. How retarded is that?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:27:18, Link
Author: Guts
And yet you can't refute a single part of any of my blogs right here in your own board. How retarded is that?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:31:16, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Your question is non-responsive to my request. Plus it isn't clear what you are referring to, as SteveStory no longer moderates here, and, in any event, Wesley's observation regarding Steve's remark is exactly accurate.


I thought you guys were supposed believe things based on evidence. Ok , I also showed that Frostman lied multiple times in this thread, how do you feel about the fact that you have an obsessive liar here in your ranks and you are doing nothing about it?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:31:16, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Your question is non-responsive to my request. Plus it isn't clear what you are referring to, as SteveStory no longer moderates here, and, in any event, Wesley's observation regarding Steve's remark is exactly accurate.


I thought you guys were supposed believe things based on evidence. Ok , I also showed that Frostman lied multiple times in this thread, how do you feel about the fact that you have an obsessive liar here in your ranks and you are doing nothing about it?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:37:05, Link
Author: Guts
Actually I did explain some foundational issues that are extremely relevant.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:37:05, Link
Author: Guts
Actually I did explain some foundational issues that are extremely relevant.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:39:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I have no feelings about Frostman whatsoever.


Like I said before, they don't call this the swamp for nothing.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:39:38, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I have no feelings about Frostman whatsoever.


Like I said before, they don't call this the swamp for nothing.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:41:41, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

That's nice guts. Now, if you've finish obsfucating, ID predictions? Or even a scientific theory would be a good start.


Read my blogs. Let me know if you have any questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:41:41, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

That's nice guts. Now, if you've finish obsfucating, ID predictions? Or even a scientific theory would be a good start.


Read my blogs. Let me know if you have any questions.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:44:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Wah wah must have moderation to protect from reality.


lol why don't you critique my blogs then if thats what you believe? Your free from my moderation here, why are you so afraid?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:44:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Wah wah must have moderation to protect from reality.


lol why don't you critique my blogs then if thats what you believe? Your free from my moderation here, why are you so afraid?

Date: 2008/07/06 19:46:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I can be arsed to write commentary that wont get through, Guts. All can post here.. something that evidently scares the shit out of you.


No no, post it here and I'll respond to you. Post your critique here.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:46:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

I can be arsed to write commentary that wont get through, Guts. All can post here.. something that evidently scares the shit out of you.


No no, post it here and I'll respond to you. Post your critique here.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:49:02, Link
Author: Guts
You know I really don't mind the rudeness. I couldn't care less about it. It's the dishonesty I mind.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:49:02, Link
Author: Guts
You know I really don't mind the rudeness. I couldn't care less about it. It's the dishonesty I mind.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:57:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Why would I have feelings about a poster with whom I have no familiarity? You both must be a bit narcissistic if you believe the blogosphere is waiting with bated breath for a resolution of your conflict.


I don't get it. I'm asking you for your honest opinion about a regular poster here who has quite obviously continously posted lies about my blog. I am not asking you to resolve my conflict. You telling me that you feel nothing about a person spreading falsehoods about my blog speaks volumes. Another reason why I'd rather drill a hole in my head than chit chat about biology.

Date: 2008/07/06 19:57:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Why would I have feelings about a poster with whom I have no familiarity? You both must be a bit narcissistic if you believe the blogosphere is waiting with bated breath for a resolution of your conflict.


I don't get it. I'm asking you for your honest opinion about a regular poster here who has quite obviously continously posted lies about my blog. I am not asking you to resolve my conflict. You telling me that you feel nothing about a person spreading falsehoods about my blog speaks volumes. Another reason why I'd rather drill a hole in my head than chit chat about biology.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:01:20, Link
Author: Guts
Hows that critique comming Rich? lol

Date: 2008/07/06 20:01:20, Link
Author: Guts
Hows that critique comming Rich? lol

Date: 2008/07/06 20:04:13, Link
Author: Guts
Jim you should correct the spelling errors in your sig or at least at a sic or something. That is pretty hilarious actually.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:04:13, Link
Author: Guts
Jim you should correct the spelling errors in your sig or at least at a sic or something. That is pretty hilarious actually.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:07:02, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

My conclusion is that you are unable to provide the example I've requested.


Then your conclusion is mistaken.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:07:02, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

My conclusion is that you are unable to provide the example I've requested.


Then your conclusion is mistaken.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:09:36, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Front loading, why all the extinctions, and why did 'they' front-load Richard Lenski's E-Coli?


Huh? How did they front-load "Richard Lenski's E-Coli"?

Date: 2008/07/06 20:09:36, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

Front loading, why all the extinctions, and why did 'they' front-load Richard Lenski's E-Coli?


Huh? How did they front-load "Richard Lenski's E-Coli"?

Date: 2008/07/06 20:13:30, Link
Author: Guts
Richard thats very cute but please answer my question.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:13:30, Link
Author: Guts
Richard thats very cute but please answer my question.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:20:05, Link
Author: Guts
Ok Bill I'll give the one I remember off the top of my head.

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed and influenced evolution

prediction: evolution relied heavily on it's ancient past, we should find key components, such as genes borrowed from that ancient past.

Indeed, it has been found that the common ancestor of cnidarians and bilaterians had an expanded complement of wnt genes already.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:20:05, Link
Author: Guts
Ok Bill I'll give the one I remember off the top of my head.

hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed and influenced evolution

prediction: evolution relied heavily on it's ancient past, we should find key components, such as genes borrowed from that ancient past.

Indeed, it has been found that the common ancestor of cnidarians and bilaterians had an expanded complement of wnt genes already.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:21:03, Link
Author: Guts
You said:

Quote

Front loading, why all the extinctions, and why did 'they' front-load Richard Lenski's E-Coli?


why did who front-load Lenski's E-Coli? How did they front-load it?

Date: 2008/07/06 20:21:03, Link
Author: Guts
You said:

Quote

Front loading, why all the extinctions, and why did 'they' front-load Richard Lenski's E-Coli?


why did who front-load Lenski's E-Coli? How did they front-load it?

Date: 2008/07/06 20:28:10, Link
Author: Guts
Wesley,

Please link to the post where Steve retracts his statement that we purposely put him in the moderation queue, if thats what he meant.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:28:10, Link
Author: Guts
Wesley,

Please link to the post where Steve retracts his statement that we purposely put him in the moderation queue, if thats what he meant.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:31:54, Link
Author: Guts
yes I did.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:31:54, Link
Author: Guts
yes I did.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:36:35, Link
Author: Guts
Arden can't you read? I gave one already.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:36:35, Link
Author: Guts
Arden can't you read? I gave one already.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:37:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But Nelson couldn't match our pathetic level if he wanted to, so none of us should be surprised.


I'm trying as hard as I can but you guys are pretty pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:37:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But Nelson couldn't match our pathetic level if he wanted to, so none of us should be surprised.


I'm trying as hard as I can but you guys are pretty pathetic.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:42:09, Link
Author: Guts
I started demonstrating against scientology and they are ruthless when it comes to obtaining identity.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:42:09, Link
Author: Guts
I started demonstrating against scientology and they are ruthless when it comes to obtaining identity.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:43:40, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You're citing an armchair reinterpretation


It's not a reinterpretation at all.

Quote

of genuine scientific work pursued by actual professional scientists operating from within the framework of contemporary evo-devo biology.


So what? It doesn't matter who did the experiment, what matters is that the data conforms to the prediction.

You see, as trolls, it's a waste of time giving you actual examples because your minds are already made up.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:43:40, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You're citing an armchair reinterpretation


It's not a reinterpretation at all.

Quote

of genuine scientific work pursued by actual professional scientists operating from within the framework of contemporary evo-devo biology.


So what? It doesn't matter who did the experiment, what matters is that the data conforms to the prediction.

You see, as trolls, it's a waste of time giving you actual examples because your minds are already made up.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:51:14, Link
Author: Guts
One thing in general that ID in general predicts is conceptual similarties among biological systems and that these conceptual similarities are there because of good engineering principles, like robustness in bacterial chemotaxis.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:51:14, Link
Author: Guts
One thing in general that ID in general predicts is conceptual similarties among biological systems and that these conceptual similarities are there because of good engineering principles, like robustness in bacterial chemotaxis.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:52:52, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You're saying nothing more than "if ID is right, we'd expect frontloading. Hey! And we do find frontloading!"


No, it's possible that in fact the wnt suite evolved via gene duplication in these lineages or that jellyfish is really as simple as it looks.

Date: 2008/07/06 20:52:52, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

You're saying nothing more than "if ID is right, we'd expect frontloading. Hey! And we do find frontloading!"


No, it's possible that in fact the wnt suite evolved via gene duplication in these lineages or that jellyfish is really as simple as it looks.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:01:47, Link
Author: Guts
Principia you should catch up with the scientific literature. The term "conceptual similarity" is used for this very subject of shared principles with biology and engineering.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:01:47, Link
Author: Guts
Principia you should catch up with the scientific literature. The term "conceptual similarity" is used for this very subject of shared principles with biology and engineering.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:04:42, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,20:57)
I have also dealt with this Mike-Gene-ism "good engineering principles" in the past.  Problem is, there isn't a fucking "good engineering principle" that is demonstrably "good" except in an artificially defined context.

Go ahead, list some good engineering principles, Guts.  Show us what engineering principles your Designer used.

Your quite wrong, here is a quote from An Introduction to Systems Biology by Uri Alon:

Quote

A third level of simplicty is th econceptual similarity  of seemingly unrelated systems, a similarity expressed in terms of unifying design principles. ONe such design principle is robustness to component fluctuations: A biological system must work under all possible insults and interferences that come with the inherent properties of the components and the environment.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:04:42, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,20:57)
I have also dealt with this Mike-Gene-ism "good engineering principles" in the past.  Problem is, there isn't a fucking "good engineering principle" that is demonstrably "good" except in an artificially defined context.

Go ahead, list some good engineering principles, Guts.  Show us what engineering principles your Designer used.

Your quite wrong, here is a quote from An Introduction to Systems Biology by Uri Alon:

Quote

A third level of simplicty is th econceptual similarity  of seemingly unrelated systems, a similarity expressed in terms of unifying design principles. ONe such design principle is robustness to component fluctuations: A biological system must work under all possible insults and interferences that come with the inherent properties of the components and the environment.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:08:06, Link
Author: Guts
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Dr GH:

Quote

That is an example of a successful IDC prediction?


Yes.

Quote


hypothesis: the starting conditions of life were designed

The "starting" conditions? Just what were these "starting conditions" you speak of, stranger? I would know more of this new science.


You don't know and yet you already dismissed it? Are you drunk again GH? Be honest.

Quote

And, these strange conditions you say were "designed?" And how might you distiguish between a designed "starting condition" and one "undesigned?"


Obviously a prebiotic soup is not a designed starting condition.

Quote

Well, as Darwin and many generations of biologists agree, physical conditions do indeed "influence evolution."  Why, we even call it "Natural Selection."   How do you creationists tell natural selection apart from "influenced evolution." Why do you think that "evolution" happens if it is really all from "design?"


Natural selection works secondarily to the designed architecture of life.

Quote

How do you find your ass in the morning?


I look you up on the internetz.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:10:16, Link
Author: Guts
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:05)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:01)
Principia you should catch up with the scientific literature. The term "conceptual similarity" is used for this very subject of shared principles with biology and engineering.

Excuse me, Principia should do nothing that an Internet syncophant wants him to do, because Principia is already part of the body that generates scientific literature.  And Principia knows for a fucking fact you are wrong.

So tell us, is Mike Gene's cock conceptually similar to a spigot.  Do you know?

On the same subject, what fucking literature have you generated outside of ID porn on the Internet?  Still aspiring to be a grad student, Guts?

Is that all you got Principia? You realize that I just proved you wrong yet again don't you as far as the term "conceptual similarity" which you were hilariously ignorant of? How does that make you feel?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:16:01, Link
Author: Guts
"Intro level text" bwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha. Come on Principia you could do better than that.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:16:01, Link
Author: Guts
"Intro level text" bwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha. Come on Principia you could do better than that.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:20:04, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But it doesn't exemplify empirical research conducted within the theoretical framework of ID,


It doesn't matter. Data is data, if it is good data it'll be found by workers within any theoretical framework.

Quote

yielding predictions that are unique to ID and were tested in such a way that a null result would meaningfully falsify a component of ID.


In fact, these results were quite unexpected within the Darwinian evolutinoary framework.

Quote

Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:20:04, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

But it doesn't exemplify empirical research conducted within the theoretical framework of ID,


It doesn't matter. Data is data, if it is good data it'll be found by workers within any theoretical framework.

Quote

yielding predictions that are unique to ID and were tested in such a way that a null result would meaningfully falsify a component of ID.


In fact, these results were quite unexpected within the Darwinian evolutinoary framework.

Quote

Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:20:35, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:19)
Inappropriate comments are being moved to the Bathroom Wall Thread.

Whats that matter steve? You don't like dissent?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:20:35, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:19)
Inappropriate comments are being moved to the Bathroom Wall Thread.

Whats that matter steve? You don't like dissent?

Date: 2008/07/06 21:21:09, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:20)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:16)
"Intro level text" bwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha. Come on Principia you could do better than that.

Principia is doing pretty fucking awesome at Mike-Gene-beat downs as far as your shit standards are concerned.  Answer my question if you actually know what you're talking about instead of dragging shit out of your ass.

You didn't ask any questions you're just obsessed with spigots or something.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:21:09, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:20)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,21:16)
"Intro level text" bwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaahahaha. Come on Principia you could do better than that.

Principia is doing pretty fucking awesome at Mike-Gene-beat downs as far as your shit standards are concerned.  Answer my question if you actually know what you're talking about instead of dragging shit out of your ass.

You didn't ask any questions you're just obsessed with spigots or something.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:26:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:25)
Quote
In fact, these results were quite unexpected within the Darwinian evolutinoary framework.
Why do unexpected results count against a scientific theory?  Newton didn't expect quantum principles or general relativity.  Is Newton's theory of gravitation wrong?

I didn't say it counts against a scientific theory you twit.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:26:17, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Principia @ July 06 2008,21:25)
Quote
In fact, these results were quite unexpected within the Darwinian evolutinoary framework.
Why do unexpected results count against a scientific theory?  Newton didn't expect quantum principles or general relativity.  Is Newton's theory of gravitation wrong?

I didn't say it counts against a scientific theory you twit.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:28:52, Link
Author: Guts
They are far from inconsquential in that they serve to bring about a framework that would better account for data. Sort of like when neo-darwinism came about, it served to improve the theory, it didn't count against it.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:28:52, Link
Author: Guts
They are far from inconsquential in that they serve to bring about a framework that would better account for data. Sort of like when neo-darwinism came about, it served to improve the theory, it didn't count against it.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:30:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
   
Quote
Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

We both know that no exemplar is coming, because none exist.

Also, don't forget those evo-devo links/cites back to passages to original papers in which the authors interpreted their data as supporting the hypothesis of front loading of genetic information by an intelligent designer.

I already gave one.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:30:53, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:30)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
   
Quote
Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

We both know that no exemplar is coming, because none exist.

Also, don't forget those evo-devo links/cites back to passages to original papers in which the authors interpreted their data as supporting the hypothesis of front loading of genetic information by an intelligent designer.

I already gave one.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:41:18, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Yes

Date: 2008/07/06 21:41:18, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Look Nelson, can the bull shit for a minute.  No trolling now. No baiting.  Do you really, honestly believe that your example is a successful IDC prediction?

Be honest.

Yes

Date: 2008/07/06 21:42:27, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:30)
 
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:30)
   
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
       
Quote
Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

We both know that no exemplar is coming, because none exist.

Also, don't forget those evo-devo links/cites back to passages to original papers in which the authors interpreted their data as supporting the hypothesis of front loading of genetic information by an intelligent designer.

I already gave one.

One what? I see no citation of ID motivated research of the sort that I describe - research in which the design specifies in advance a null empirical finding that would place one's theoretical position in jeopardy.

I also see no citation to original authors interpreting their data in light of front-loaded genetic information or any other designed initial conditions.

[edit for clarity]

I gave you an example of a prediction. You're just closing your eyes and saying "no no no no no".

Date: 2008/07/06 21:42:27, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:36)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:30)
 
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:30)
   
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
       
Quote
Give us an example of same. Just one. Tell us the results of that research, and the implications of those findings for future empirical work.


It looks to me like you're just flailing at this point.

We both know that no exemplar is coming, because none exist.

Also, don't forget those evo-devo links/cites back to passages to original papers in which the authors interpreted their data as supporting the hypothesis of front loading of genetic information by an intelligent designer.

I already gave one.

One what? I see no citation of ID motivated research of the sort that I describe - research in which the design specifies in advance a null empirical finding that would place one's theoretical position in jeopardy.

I also see no citation to original authors interpreting their data in light of front-loaded genetic information or any other designed initial conditions.

[edit for clarity]

I gave you an example of a prediction. You're just closing your eyes and saying "no no no no no".

Date: 2008/07/06 21:43:24, Link
Author: Guts
Actually I gave two examples.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:43:24, Link
Author: Guts
Actually I gave two examples.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:46:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:32)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:19)
Inappropriate comments are being moved to the Bathroom Wall Thread.

Whats that matter steve? You don't like dissent?

you don't seem very familiar with us. If we went to your blog and said the things you've said today, we would be banned. Here we don't ban. We do move most personal attacks to the Bathroom Wall thread. This isn't an ID blog. There's very little banning and no deleting of comments.

Steve, you are obviously unfamiliar with TT. We rarely ban as well. We do  throw comments to a similar "memory hole" and occasionally make use of the new moderation tool to barr people from threads.

You admit here that you have at one point found the need to ban people. Do you feel you have done so unjustly? Probably not.

But the problem is that every time we ban someone, it doesn't matter that we do it rarely, everytime we ban someone we are accused of censoring when in fact there absolutely nothing to censor. Which is ridiculous and dishonest.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:46:45, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:32)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:20)
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:19)
Inappropriate comments are being moved to the Bathroom Wall Thread.

Whats that matter steve? You don't like dissent?

you don't seem very familiar with us. If we went to your blog and said the things you've said today, we would be banned. Here we don't ban. We do move most personal attacks to the Bathroom Wall thread. This isn't an ID blog. There's very little banning and no deleting of comments.

Steve, you are obviously unfamiliar with TT. We rarely ban as well. We do  throw comments to a similar "memory hole" and occasionally make use of the new moderation tool to barr people from threads.

You admit here that you have at one point found the need to ban people. Do you feel you have done so unjustly? Probably not.

But the problem is that every time we ban someone, it doesn't matter that we do it rarely, everytime we ban someone we are accused of censoring when in fact there absolutely nothing to censor. Which is ridiculous and dishonest.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:49:55, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So, no, that doesn't appear to be what Steve meant. Straw-grasping by Nelson noted. If Nelson wants to continue down that line, maybe a link to where anybody at TT objected about implicit intentionality in Steve's comment before today would be a good thing.


Everyone at TT knows that occasionally comments get caught in the moderation queue automatically if akismet is not installed, in fact that this is true of many wordpress blog. And in fact, many who post for there for a long period of time realize that this:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:49:55, Link
Author: Guts
Quote

So, no, that doesn't appear to be what Steve meant. Straw-grasping by Nelson noted. If Nelson wants to continue down that line, maybe a link to where anybody at TT objected about implicit intentionality in Steve's comment before today would be a good thing.


Everyone at TT knows that occasionally comments get caught in the moderation queue automatically if akismet is not installed, in fact that this is true of many wordpress blog. And in fact, many who post for there for a long period of time realize that this:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:52:54, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:48)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:42)
I gave you an example of a prediction. You're just closing your eyes and saying "no no no no no".

What I asked for includes a prediction, but I also requested the basic research infrastructure that confers upon the prediction scientific usefulness.

I'm closing my eyes and saying provide an instance of hypothesis testing uniquely driven by ID theory. A quick description of the experimental prediction (and the theoretical basis thereof), why those predictions differ from those derived from orthodox evolutionary theory, in what sense the null result would disconfirm a tenet of ID, the actual results, and the implications for future empirical work.

Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:52:54, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:48)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:42)
I gave you an example of a prediction. You're just closing your eyes and saying "no no no no no".

What I asked for includes a prediction, but I also requested the basic research infrastructure that confers upon the prediction scientific usefulness.

I'm closing my eyes and saying provide an instance of hypothesis testing uniquely driven by ID theory. A quick description of the experimental prediction (and the theoretical basis thereof), why those predictions differ from those derived from orthodox evolutionary theory, in what sense the null result would disconfirm a tenet of ID, the actual results, and the implications for future empirical work.

Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:53:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:52)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Quote

So, no, that doesn't appear to be what Steve meant. Straw-grasping by Nelson noted. If Nelson wants to continue down that line, maybe a link to where anybody at TT objected about implicit intentionality in Steve's comment before today would be a good thing.


Everyone at TT knows that occasionally comments get caught in the moderation queue automatically if akismet is not installed, in fact that this is true of many wordpress blog. And in fact, many who post for there for a long period of time realize that this:

 
Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

But quite different from lying. Are you now retracting your assertion that Steve was lying, and is a liar?

When he retracts his statement I will.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:53:30, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,21:52)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Quote

So, no, that doesn't appear to be what Steve meant. Straw-grasping by Nelson noted. If Nelson wants to continue down that line, maybe a link to where anybody at TT objected about implicit intentionality in Steve's comment before today would be a good thing.


Everyone at TT knows that occasionally comments get caught in the moderation queue automatically if akismet is not installed, in fact that this is true of many wordpress blog. And in fact, many who post for there for a long period of time realize that this:

 
Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

But quite different from lying. Are you now retracting your assertion that Steve was lying, and is a liar?

When he retracts his statement I will.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:56:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:54)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:46)
Steve, you are obviously unfamiliar with TT. We rarely ban as well. We do  throw comments to a similar "memory hole"

oh, i know about your memory hole. And if I went over to TT today and left 100 comments like "This board is a piece of shit and Joy is gay and Bradford is scientifically illiterate and Guts is a liar..." etc etc etc I would not end up in the memory hole. I'd be banned. Be honest.

Well of course, we try to foster discussion that won't turn people's stomachs, unlike here.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:56:20, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:54)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:46)
Steve, you are obviously unfamiliar with TT. We rarely ban as well. We do  throw comments to a similar "memory hole"

oh, i know about your memory hole. And if I went over to TT today and left 100 comments like "This board is a piece of shit and Joy is gay and Bradford is scientifically illiterate and Guts is a liar..." etc etc etc I would not end up in the memory hole. I'd be banned. Be honest.

Well of course, we try to foster discussion that won't turn people's stomachs, unlike here.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:57:15, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:56)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

You aren't calling TT a creationist site, are you Guts?

lol you call us creationists all the time. So you're not going to retract your statement? If not you're still lying.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:57:15, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,21:56)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


Is complete and utter bullshit.

You aren't calling TT a creationist site, are you Guts?

lol you call us creationists all the time. So you're not going to retract your statement? If not you're still lying.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:59:06, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,21:56)
Actually, occasional false positives are expected if Akismet is installed.

Imagine how much misunderstanding and bad feeling might have been shortcut if someone had popped up with that information at the time of the incident.

No, the moderation queue catches spam words if Akismet is not installed, after I installed Akismet, comments stopped getting caught in the moderation queue and was now being caught by Akismet, although rarely something gets caught by the moderation queue.

Date: 2008/07/06 21:59:06, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,21:56)
Actually, occasional false positives are expected if Akismet is installed.

Imagine how much misunderstanding and bad feeling might have been shortcut if someone had popped up with that information at the time of the incident.

No, the moderation queue catches spam words if Akismet is not installed, after I installed Akismet, comments stopped getting caught in the moderation queue and was now being caught by Akismet, although rarely something gets caught by the moderation queue.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:02:19, Link
Author: Guts
This:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity

Date: 2008/07/06 22:02:19, Link
Author: Guts
This:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity

Date: 2008/07/06 22:03:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:01)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Valid reason:

What I have requested describes the bare essence of scientific research. Your failure to provide an example of same from within the context of ID speaks for itself.

With that, I'm off to bed.

Don't run away now? You've been asking me all day for a valid prediction and you give me bunk as a response and now you're running away?

Date: 2008/07/06 22:03:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:01)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Valid reason:

What I have requested describes the bare essence of scientific research. Your failure to provide an example of same from within the context of ID speaks for itself.

With that, I'm off to bed.

Don't run away now? You've been asking me all day for a valid prediction and you give me bunk as a response and now you're running away?

Date: 2008/07/06 22:04:50, Link
Author: Guts
That we purposely put you in the moderation queue. Thats not true, when we found your comment in the queue, we passed it through.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:04:50, Link
Author: Guts
That we purposely put you in the moderation queue. Thats not true, when we found your comment in the queue, we passed it through.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:07:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,22:05)
So both the "moderation queue" and Akismet can hold up the appearance of a comment. A commenter without administrative access to the blog is supposed to distinguish between those two in what way?

Everyone else does. when a comment is caught, they usually ask for moderator assistance. Furthermore, instead of immediately comming here and crying censorship, he could have simply asked what was happening.

The knee jerk reaction just supports mindset of anti-ID activists, they know that censorship makes a blog look bad , so they are desperate to see it, even when it's not there.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:07:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,22:05)
So both the "moderation queue" and Akismet can hold up the appearance of a comment. A commenter without administrative access to the blog is supposed to distinguish between those two in what way?

Everyone else does. when a comment is caught, they usually ask for moderator assistance. Furthermore, instead of immediately comming here and crying censorship, he could have simply asked what was happening.

The knee jerk reaction just supports mindset of anti-ID activists, they know that censorship makes a blog look bad , so they are desperate to see it, even when it's not there.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:08:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:06)
where did i say that you 'purposely' put me in a moderation queue?

Steve come on:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


You were accusing us of specifically holding and judging your comment in the queue.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:08:39, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:06)
where did i say that you 'purposely' put me in a moderation queue?

Steve come on:

Quote

I'm so glad I don't moderate a creationist site. Who's got the time and energy to specifically pore over every possible critical comment and judge it? Anyway that just reeks of insecurity


You were accusing us of specifically holding and judging your comment in the queue.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:09:43, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:07)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:03)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:01)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Valid reason:

What I have requested describes the bare essence of scientific research. Your failure to provide an example of same from within the context of ID speaks for itself.

With that, I'm off to bed.

Don't run away now? You've been asking me all day for a valid prediction and you give me bunk as a response and now you're running away?

I have professional obligations, first thing in the morning, through which I put food on my family. Got to take care of myself.

I'll look for your example of ID research meeting my extremely basic description of the logic of scientific research mid-morning tomorrow.

Over and out.

Extremely basic? Your request contain unnecessary qualifiers, it's too complex!

Date: 2008/07/06 22:09:43, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:07)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:03)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 06 2008,22:01)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
Bill it doens't matter that you don't like my answer. You have to give me a valid reason, the one you're giving me is completely arbitrary, it's like saying I don't like your prediction because your hair is black, it has no bearing on whether data was expected or unexpected because of the hypothesis.

Valid reason:

What I have requested describes the bare essence of scientific research. Your failure to provide an example of same from within the context of ID speaks for itself.

With that, I'm off to bed.

Don't run away now? You've been asking me all day for a valid prediction and you give me bunk as a response and now you're running away?

I have professional obligations, first thing in the morning, through which I put food on my family. Got to take care of myself.

I'll look for your example of ID research meeting my extremely basic description of the logic of scientific research mid-morning tomorrow.

Over and out.

Extremely basic? Your request contain unnecessary qualifiers, it's too complex!

Date: 2008/07/06 22:11:58, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:10)
can you point me to a comment where i said you purposely put me in a moderation queue or not?

I just did, and Wesley linked to it. I take it you're not going to retract?

Date: 2008/07/06 22:11:58, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:10)
can you point me to a comment where i said you purposely put me in a moderation queue or not?

I just did, and Wesley linked to it. I take it you're not going to retract?

Date: 2008/07/06 22:15:43, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:14)
Looks like all I said specifically about Telic Thoughts is that it appeared I was put into a moderation queue. You basically admitted as much. So go demand a retraction from some other piece of shit board with lots of faggotry, in your words.

So in other words, you're still a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:15:43, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:14)
Looks like all I said specifically about Telic Thoughts is that it appeared I was put into a moderation queue. You basically admitted as much. So go demand a retraction from some other piece of shit board with lots of faggotry, in your words.

So in other words, you're still a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:21:46, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:18)
Alright, as much fun as watching guts make himself and his creationist buddies look as bad as humanly possible is, I'm going to step in here.

Guts, you have specifically called Steve a liar on several occasions.

As super light as the moderation here is, we do have a rule (check the bottom of the page for the link) about assertions and evidence which is taken pretty seriously.

Support your claim that Steve is a liar, with evidence, or retract it immediately.

And for the record, I am the moderator here, Steve is semi-retired.  Moderator Emeritus, if you will.

Steve is in fact a liar. Here is the comment that he won't retract:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Instead of doing the right thing and admitting that he made a mistake, he is now playing games pretending not to understand his own post.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:21:46, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:18)
Alright, as much fun as watching guts make himself and his creationist buddies look as bad as humanly possible is, I'm going to step in here.

Guts, you have specifically called Steve a liar on several occasions.

As super light as the moderation here is, we do have a rule (check the bottom of the page for the link) about assertions and evidence which is taken pretty seriously.

Support your claim that Steve is a liar, with evidence, or retract it immediately.

And for the record, I am the moderator here, Steve is semi-retired.  Moderator Emeritus, if you will.

Steve is in fact a liar. Here is the comment that he won't retract:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Instead of doing the right thing and admitting that he made a mistake, he is now playing games pretending not to understand his own post.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:25:31, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (JAM @ July 06 2008,22:20)

JAM:
Quote

Nelson, you're scientifically illiterate. Your "prediction" is fraudulent, as it is merely a restatement of your hypothesis. A real prediction is about what we will directly observe, not how we will interpret it.


No it doesn't.
 
Quote

So when during evolution did this hypothetical frontloading of Wnt (it's [=it is] capitalized for a reason) genes occur? That's a testable hypothesis, and one that my hypothesis (you are a fraud and at some level you know it) predicts you'll run away from.


The hypothesis expected the ancient suite of wnt genes would be present already, further research would have to be done to know exactly which ones can be traced further back but that key genes would be able to be traced back.

Quote

BTW, you're not only scientifically illiterate, but you appear to be fundamentally illiterate. Can't you distinguish between the possessive pronoun "its" (no apostrophe) and the contraction (it's)?


And you are incredibly pedantic, which is why no one with any sense takes you seriously.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:25:31, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (JAM @ July 06 2008,22:20)

JAM:
Quote

Nelson, you're scientifically illiterate. Your "prediction" is fraudulent, as it is merely a restatement of your hypothesis. A real prediction is about what we will directly observe, not how we will interpret it.


No it doesn't.
 
Quote

So when during evolution did this hypothetical frontloading of Wnt (it's [=it is] capitalized for a reason) genes occur? That's a testable hypothesis, and one that my hypothesis (you are a fraud and at some level you know it) predicts you'll run away from.


The hypothesis expected the ancient suite of wnt genes would be present already, further research would have to be done to know exactly which ones can be traced further back but that key genes would be able to be traced back.

Quote

BTW, you're not only scientifically illiterate, but you appear to be fundamentally illiterate. Can't you distinguish between the possessive pronoun "its" (no apostrophe) and the contraction (it's)?


And you are incredibly pedantic, which is why no one with any sense takes you seriously.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:27:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:25)
Honorable Lou: I agree that Guts is violating the preexisting rules against making completely false accusations, but I ask that that the rule be temporarily suspended, on account of how bad he's making himself look here. He's doing our work for us.

(Guts, in case you're wondering, when you said 'the moderator is a liar', you were accusing Lou FCD of lying. He's the moderator here. I used to be.)

Steve looks like they're close to banning me and quite unjustly , as you know that the statement in your post is not true. See what I mean? The only reason they won't ban me is because you know if they do, it proves my point, so you're telling them not to. How delicious.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:27:11, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:25)
Honorable Lou: I agree that Guts is violating the preexisting rules against making completely false accusations, but I ask that that the rule be temporarily suspended, on account of how bad he's making himself look here. He's doing our work for us.

(Guts, in case you're wondering, when you said 'the moderator is a liar', you were accusing Lou FCD of lying. He's the moderator here. I used to be.)

Steve looks like they're close to banning me and quite unjustly , as you know that the statement in your post is not true. See what I mean? The only reason they won't ban me is because you know if they do, it proves my point, so you're telling them not to. How delicious.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:28:59, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:22)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:21)
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:18)
Alright, as much fun as watching guts make himself and his creationist buddies look as bad as humanly possible is, I'm going to step in here.

Guts, you have specifically called Steve a liar on several occasions.

As super light as the moderation here is, we do have a rule (check the bottom of the page for the link) about assertions and evidence which is taken pretty seriously.

Support your claim that Steve is a liar, with evidence, or retract it immediately.

And for the record, I am the moderator here, Steve is semi-retired.  Moderator Emeritus, if you will.

Steve is in fact a liar. Here is the comment that he won't retract:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Instead of doing the right thing and admitting that he made a mistake, he is now playing games pretending not to understand his own post.

I saw the comment, and see no evidence that he is a liar.

Support or retract.

No I will not retract, the post contains a falsehood and steve won't retract, so he is in fact a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:28:59, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:22)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:21)
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:18)
Alright, as much fun as watching guts make himself and his creationist buddies look as bad as humanly possible is, I'm going to step in here.

Guts, you have specifically called Steve a liar on several occasions.

As super light as the moderation here is, we do have a rule (check the bottom of the page for the link) about assertions and evidence which is taken pretty seriously.

Support your claim that Steve is a liar, with evidence, or retract it immediately.

And for the record, I am the moderator here, Steve is semi-retired.  Moderator Emeritus, if you will.

Steve is in fact a liar. Here is the comment that he won't retract:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Instead of doing the right thing and admitting that he made a mistake, he is now playing games pretending not to understand his own post.

I saw the comment, and see no evidence that he is a liar.

Support or retract.

No I will not retract, the post contains a falsehood and steve won't retract, so he is in fact a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:30:56, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:29)
Oh it would be quite just. If Lou follows the rules posted on the board you'll be toast because you're telling obvious lies about me. But they're so obvious, I want you to keep telling them. You're like DaveScot on steroids today.

No you just know that if they ban me, it proves my point. Because the fact of the matter is, you are still a liar, and the post does in fact contain a falsehood.

You would be essentially banning me unjustly.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:30:56, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:29)
Oh it would be quite just. If Lou follows the rules posted on the board you'll be toast because you're telling obvious lies about me. But they're so obvious, I want you to keep telling them. You're like DaveScot on steroids today.

No you just know that if they ban me, it proves my point. Because the fact of the matter is, you are still a liar, and the post does in fact contain a falsehood.

You would be essentially banning me unjustly.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:37:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,22:33)
What I'd be interested in knowing is what that first accusation of "deception" Nelson had was on about if he was concerned about the "purposely" thing. What would the current presence of a comment on TT have to do with that?

It just looks to me that Nelson is determined that "deception" must be established, and his first try having gone nowhere conveniently invented a new issue to be upset over.

Quote

What I'd be interested in knowing is what that first accusation of "deception" Nelson had was on about if he was concerned about the "purposely" thing.


I thought he was saying we deleted his comment. If you look at the post directly after he also wants us to "grow a pair". That post doesn't make sense if Steve was not accusing us of holding every comment for judgement.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:37:19, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2008,22:33)
What I'd be interested in knowing is what that first accusation of "deception" Nelson had was on about if he was concerned about the "purposely" thing. What would the current presence of a comment on TT have to do with that?

It just looks to me that Nelson is determined that "deception" must be established, and his first try having gone nowhere conveniently invented a new issue to be upset over.

Quote

What I'd be interested in knowing is what that first accusation of "deception" Nelson had was on about if he was concerned about the "purposely" thing.


I thought he was saying we deleted his comment. If you look at the post directly after he also wants us to "grow a pair". That post doesn't make sense if Steve was not accusing us of holding every comment for judgement.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:38:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:37)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:30)
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:29)
Oh it would be quite just. If Lou follows the rules posted on the board you'll be toast because you're telling obvious lies about me. But they're so obvious, I want you to keep telling them. You're like DaveScot on steroids today.

No you just know that if they ban me, it proves my point. Because the fact of the matter is, you are still a liar, and the post does in fact contain a falsehood.

You would be essentially banning me unjustly.

Further, I wouldn't ban you.  I have other tools at my disposal.

You should ask Ftk about them.

I have tools at my blog as well that doesn't require bannishment, and yet I still get accussed of censorship for using them. So it would only prove my point as well.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:38:01, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:37)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:30)
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:29)
Oh it would be quite just. If Lou follows the rules posted on the board you'll be toast because you're telling obvious lies about me. But they're so obvious, I want you to keep telling them. You're like DaveScot on steroids today.

No you just know that if they ban me, it proves my point. Because the fact of the matter is, you are still a liar, and the post does in fact contain a falsehood.

You would be essentially banning me unjustly.

Further, I wouldn't ban you.  I have other tools at my disposal.

You should ask Ftk about them.

I have tools at my blog as well that doesn't require bannishment, and yet I still get accussed of censorship for using them. So it would only prove my point as well.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:40:34, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:38)
Nelson, go read the board rules. You'll see this:

Quote
Failure to retract unsupported claims about other participants is grounds for banishment.


So you don't just go around calling people liars when you have no evidence. I appealed for temporary special treatment for you because your behavior today is astonishingly bad, and I think we want people to see that.

(That's actually why I went to TT today to alert you about this 'impersonation'. I didn't think you were being impersonated, I wanted some of your TT buddies to come over here and watch you act like this. Why Mike Gene associates himself with the likes of you and Bradford I have no idea)

Steve I'm calling you a liar because I have evidence. You said that we show insecurity because we hold comments in moderation for judgement. That you won't retract this silly statement makes you a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:40:34, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:38)
Nelson, go read the board rules. You'll see this:

Quote
Failure to retract unsupported claims about other participants is grounds for banishment.


So you don't just go around calling people liars when you have no evidence. I appealed for temporary special treatment for you because your behavior today is astonishingly bad, and I think we want people to see that.

(That's actually why I went to TT today to alert you about this 'impersonation'. I didn't think you were being impersonated, I wanted some of your TT buddies to come over here and watch you act like this. Why Mike Gene associates himself with the likes of you and Bradford I have no idea)

Steve I'm calling you a liar because I have evidence. You said that we show insecurity because we hold comments in moderation for judgement. That you won't retract this silly statement makes you a liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:45:00, Link
Author: Guts
See you later liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:45:00, Link
Author: Guts
See you later liar.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:50:47, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:48)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 06 2008,23:47)
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,20:45)
   
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:40)
Steve I'm calling you a liar because I have evidence.

I'd be eternally grateful if you'd produce it then.

Sadly, like every other claim and assertion for which you've been asked to produce evidence, you won't, and for the same reason.

Let me guess: Nelson has the evidence -- dozens of pieces of evidence -- but he refuses to tell us, plus it's not important anyway.

Well, that and it's invisible.

The evidence is right here, it's been linked to multiple times:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Date: 2008/07/06 22:50:47, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:48)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 06 2008,23:47)
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,20:45)
   
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:40)
Steve I'm calling you a liar because I have evidence.

I'd be eternally grateful if you'd produce it then.

Sadly, like every other claim and assertion for which you've been asked to produce evidence, you won't, and for the same reason.

Let me guess: Nelson has the evidence -- dozens of pieces of evidence -- but he refuses to tell us, plus it's not important anyway.

Well, that and it's invisible.

The evidence is right here, it's been linked to multiple times:

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y110698

Date: 2008/07/06 22:51:23, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Gene is really not doing so well. The Amazon sales figures show that his book is moving like a copy a month. Okay okay I'm off to the UD thread. I'm waaaay behind over there.

Wow you've been following that? That proves even more that you're obsessed.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:51:23, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (stevestory @ July 06 2008,22:49)
Gene is really not doing so well. The Amazon sales figures show that his book is moving like a copy a month. Okay okay I'm off to the UD thread. I'm waaaay behind over there.

Wow you've been following that? That proves even more that you're obsessed.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:52:26, Link
Author: Guts
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:52:26, Link
Author: Guts
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:56:04, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2008,22:53)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

How close were you? we you in heavy moderation? were some posts just not getting through? Did you get 'memory holed'?

So close , steve had to stop them. I think that even might be unprecedented.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:56:04, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2008,22:53)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

How close were you? we you in heavy moderation? were some posts just not getting through? Did you get 'memory holed'?

So close , steve had to stop them. I think that even might be unprecedented.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:58:41, Link
Author: Guts
Naah, all you said was that "I'm not going to respond to you waaaa". So that's a horrible explanation.

Also, I'm quite significant, so significant, that I was about to be banned, the only reason I wasn't was that steve knew it would prove my point.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:58:41, Link
Author: Guts
Naah, all you said was that "I'm not going to respond to you waaaa". So that's a horrible explanation.

Also, I'm quite significant, so significant, that I was about to be banned, the only reason I wasn't was that steve knew it would prove my point.

Date: 2008/07/06 22:59:52, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:58)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:56)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2008,22:53)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

How close were you? we you in heavy moderation? were some posts just not getting through? Did you get 'memory holed'?

So close , steve had to stop them. I think that even might be unprecedented.

Please learn to understand the words you read.

You were never in danger of being banned.

You said retract or support , you rejected my support, and you said it was in violation of the rules. You only stopped because Steve asked you to suspend them. Are you going to lie now too?

Date: 2008/07/06 22:59:52, Link
Author: Guts
Quote (Lou FCD @ July 06 2008,22:58)
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,23:56)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2008,22:53)
 
Quote (Guts @ July 06 2008,22:52)
I find it really interesting how close to being banned I was for giving evidence for my claim. Keiths, eat your heart out.

How close were you? we you in heavy moderation? were some posts just not getting through? Did you get 'memory holed'?

So close , steve had to stop them. I think that even might be unprecedented.

Please learn to understand the words you read.

You were never in danger of being banned.

You said retract or support , you rejected my support, and you said it was in violation of the rules. You only stopped because Steve asked you to suspend them. Are you going to lie now too?

Date: 2008/07/06 23:02:01, Link
Author: Guts
It doesn't matter when I use other tools, they still call it banning.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:02:01, Link
Author: Guts
It doesn't matter when I use other tools, they still call it banning.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:04:03, Link
Author: Guts
The lesson learned this weekend is quite clear.

Date: 2008/07/06 23:04:03, Link
Author: Guts
The lesson learned this weekend is quite clear.

 

 

 

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