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| Date: 2007/11/07 10:46:02, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Re discussing facts, theories, and hypotheses, is anyone up to speed on the Fair Use doctrine (I think that's what it's called). I ask because, like most people at universities, pharmaceutical companies, and the like, I have access to a vast electronic collection of scientific publications. Seems to me that these endless discussion threads with FtK, VMartin, etc. could be substantially improved (and possibly shortened) if their bald-faced assertions were countered by the regular posting of at least the abstract of a relevant, peer-reviewed, article. While I know most of us have to make a living, I think even one posting per day would deliver a powerful message: The Fundgelicals assert there's a controversy in the scientific community; the rationalists counter with a mainstream, peer-reviewed, article; the Fungies say, "My mind's made up, don't confuse me with the facts." $0.02 |
| Date: 2007/11/07 11:49:28, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
Louis, I agree with you about the level and style of Fungie argument. I was really thinking more about the potential for positive effect on lurking fence-sitters and the refutation of content-less Fungie assertions with an overwhelming "...pathetic level of detail..." (Not to discount the amusement factor in watching them squirm.) OTOH, I hadn't thought about giving them such a rich vein from which to quote-mine. $0.02 |
| Date: 2007/11/07 12:57:37, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
I'll take that as an invitation. ;) Here's the abstract of an article I thought was fascinating -- also very accessible to anyone with HS reading skills: It has been proposed that the hominid lineage began when a group of chimpanzee-like apes began to throw rocks and swing clubs at adversaries, and that this behaviour yielded reproductive advantages for millions of years, driving natural selection for improved throwing and clubbing prowess. This assertion leads to the prediction that the human hand should be adapted for throwing and clubbing, a topic that is explored in the following report. It is shown that the two fundamental human handgrips, first identified by J. R. Napier, and named by him the ‘precision grip’ and ‘power grip’, represent a throwing grip and a clubbing grip, thereby providing an evolutionary explanation for the two unique grips, and the extensive anatomical remodelling of the hand that made them possible. These results are supported by palaeoanthropological evidence. Young, R.W. J.Anat. 2003 January; 202(1): 165–174 Available from PubMed here Surely, anyone in the Western world with a television has seen a chimp throw something. It's always a very clumsy, underhanded throw with little accuracy and less power. Nevertheless, it is a projection of force of which few other animals are capable. From chimps to Austtralopithecus to Homo there is a very neat and practically complete transition of hand morphology. All in all, another wonderful example of a prediction based on ToE, subsequently borne out by several lines of evidence. Now, to forestall the so-whats; this article, all by its lonesome, does not perform the coup de grace on all Fungelical frothings. It is, however, one more grain of sand that stretches away from the colossal wreck of ID. "Nothing beside remains: round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare, The lone and level sands stretch far away." Ozymandias, Percy Bysshe Shelley |
| Date: 2007/11/07 13:02:12, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
I didn't mean to imply that chimps and Australopithecus are contemporary critters! I was trying to suggest that the line goes from the latest chimp/human common ancestor to modern day Pan and Homo. Sorry for any confusion. |
| Date: 2007/11/07 14:07:56, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Ah, but the debbil's in the details! Well, Louis, I can't say you didn't warn me. |
| Date: 2007/11/07 14:26:30, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
One does have to marvel at Kubrik's prescience. Still, recall the scene when the mythical progenitor screws up the courage to touch the monolith? Looking at the closeup of the hand, based on my extensive knowledge (Har!) of the theory of evolution and the paleoanthropological record, I predict that said mythical progenitor must actually be a human! Now, lets go see if we can find the, um... holotype?... and do a little disecting! EoRaptor PS I have to figure out how to put my Eoraptor avatar on these posts. |
| Date: 2007/11/07 15:22:22, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Fiction!?! I'm shocked; shocked, you hear? :O Ever since reading The Sentinel, Clarke's original short story, I thought 2001 was about ET monitoring us pesky humans to decide if/when we'd be fit interstellar company. Actually, since that's what I read in the inerrant literally true book, I know that's what it is. So, nyah, nyah, you fictonless heretic! |
| Date: 2007/11/08 10:34:13, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Off-topic: I have often wondered about the notion that the printed Bible is the inerrant, literal, word of God. I have six Bibles in my house. Every one of them was translated, typeset, printed, bound, and sold through human agency. As a Christian, I accept as a matter of faith that God's words are inerrant. As a rational (more or less) human being, however, I know that nothing printed in English conveys God's literal words and that there's little basis for deciding what God was actually trying to tell us poor, fallible, children two thousand (or 4 to 5 thousand for the OT) years ago. I truly don't understand why modern fundamentalism isn't considered the greatest Christian heresy of the last millennium. $0.02 |
| Date: 2007/11/15 11:30:01, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
This comment has been removed by PM request of the author, EoRaptor. -- Lou |
| Date: 2007/12/19 12:47:22, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
I'll have to add to grace before the evening meal, "Dear Lord, don't let me eat in any restaurant owned, or frequented, by this tard!" Amen! |
| Date: 2008/01/08 10:42:10, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||||
Oooh, Kristine you sultry vamp! Can I be your paramour, err, I mean paralegal?
Although a lot of new technology came out of the three early NASA programs (Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo), the agency has been patently moribund since. The shuttle was a boondoggle from the beginning (with the exception of servicing Hubble) and the ISS is even worse. As for deciding how to vote, one criterion I've adopted is to regularly visit PolitiFact and FactCheck.org. As election time approaches, thems what got the least lies, 'prolly got da vote. Interestingly, Pastor Huckabee (he is the subject of this thread, no?) has a goodly number of false, barely true, and half true ratings. Gotta love them fundagelical Christians! $0.02 :D |
| Date: 2008/01/08 11:15:29, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
How could I forget the Mars rovers! That project is so spectacularly successful it makes me wonder if NASA was actually involved! $0.02 Edited to add: I don't need no stinkin' edit button! |
| Date: 2008/01/10 14:16:58, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
The scablands of Idaho and eastern Washington look very much like the result of a giant flood. And, it turns out they are, but note that it was a giant flood (on a human scale), not a worldwide flood. I don't doubt that there are similar landscapes elsewhere in the world. Nevertheless, the morphology of the terranes immediately abutting the scablands, the evidence for several such great floods in this same area, and the complete lack of any evidence for a flood of a non-localized (albeit large) area rather undermines the hypothesis of a world wide flood. One more point: Isn't it illogical to be saying you believe in something because there's no evidence against it when there's no physical evidence for it in the first place? Just asking. $0.02 |
| Date: 2008/01/11 13:19:27, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Seems there are a couple of discussion disjuncts here. First, the "fossil record" is NOT created by RM+NS. It's the consequence of chance preservation, chance revelation of the strata and location of the fossil, and perhaps somewhat guided discovery. However, when George says the fossil record results from RM/ NS, I understand him to be using shorthand for the fact that the fossilized thing is proof of a living thing that was, itself, wholly the product of RM/NS. Second, to say there are highly conserved genes, says absolutely nothing about mutation rates or causes. That bit of ionizing radiation nerull mentions is as likely to zap a highly conserved region of an individual cell's genome as it is any other region of that genome. Highly conserved means when that cell divides -- or, if its a germ cell, when it combines with another -- the result is unlikely to be viable -- even if the change is relatively minor. So, I'm sorry, but you sitll don't have a pot to piss in. $0.02 |
| Date: 2008/01/15 23:24:03, Link 24.149.157.128 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
You do know the Old Man died? He fell off the mountain and all the king's horses, etc. Just sayin'. |
| Date: 2008/01/15 23:57:38, Link 24.149.157.128 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
There can be no greater demonstration of driving skill! WRT to ideas
More interesting, the folklorist reviewed notebooks from several archaeological excavations of ancient Greek temples. Even as late as 1978, archaeologists presumed that the ancients would not recognize the organic origin of fossil bones. Thus, when mammoth, wooly rhino, and other Pliocene/Miocene bones were found at these excavations, they were noted on the anomolies (sp?) page, and the bones were discarded! The point of all my blabbering is that the Greeks, and later the Romans, actually had evidence for their so-called myths! Of course, their interpretation of the evidence was wrong as all we God-fearing Christians know, but still in the context of the times, they had the goods. I have wondered, since this show, whether there was more than the nomadic nature of the early Jewish tribes that underlay the prohibition against worshiping "idols." $0.02 |
| Date: 2008/01/17 15:58:46, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||||
Gaak! Until the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the oldest extant copy of the Old Testament was the Vatican's copy of the Septuagint -- the Codex Vaticanus. The Dead Sea Scrolls pushed back that benchmark -- at least for a very few of the scrolls -- to the second and third centuries BCE. So far as I can tell, the oldest copy of Job is dated at around 30 BCE. So where does FtK get 2,000 BCE? At best, linguistic analyses of surviving early Hebrew manuscripts of the Tanach suggest most of it was written down around the 6th century BCE. Still lacking a couple 'a hundred years, or so. ;-) $0.02 I don't got no button but edited to move link from "Vatican's" to "Codex Vaticanus." |
| Date: 2008/01/17 16:19:18, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
BTW, just to close the circle, the oldest written new testament text is a fragment of papyrus containing a few verses from the Gospel of John (John 18:31-33 on one side and John 18:37-38 on the other). The fragment has been dated around 125-150 CE. FWIW |
| Date: 2008/01/17 16:23:15, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Damn! Forgot to mention that both the Codex Vaticanus and the Codex Sinaticus are dated to the 4th century CE. The Codex Vaticanus is believed to be older than the Sinaticus by a few years. Sorry 'bout that. |
| Date: 2008/01/24 11:02:28, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Blasphemy! William Gibson wrote Neruomancer in 1984 on an IBM Selectric typewriter. I just know he's got an FTL TimeWarp Dialator hidden somewhere in his hip pocket. |
| Date: 2008/01/31 12:15:55, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
As a counter-example to Expelled, there was an article in the NJ Star Ledger about Dr. Gerta Keller, a geologist and paleontologist at Princeton. According to the article, ..."for the last 20 years, this Princeton professor has been the leading critic of the established theory of dinosaur extinction." I'm not qualified to judge her work, so I'm not going there. What's interesting, however, in the context of this thread, is that Dr. Keller is considered, umm... a heretic. Indeed, some academic geologists/paleontologists have been down-right rude in their opposition to her views. BUT, she is regularly published in peer-reviewed journals (see Google scholar), holds a position at a fairly prestigious university, applies for, and receives, funding for her work, and oversees a lot of Ph.D. candidates and post-docs. Some of the attacks against Dr. Keller have been very personal and bitter. (Isn't there some adage about goring oxen that might be appropriate here?) Nevertheless, through hard work she has accumulated sufficient data to convert some skeptics, and made others not quite so adamant in their opposition. In other words, she produces the data and it gets published, despite opposition. The great Chinese wall erected by the Evil Darwinist Conspiracy seems to have some pretty big holes, don't you think? I'm guessing you won't see Dr. Gerta, or anybody like her, in Expelled. |
| Date: 2008/01/31 12:25:25, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Oh, and here's a pretty cool picture from the article: |
| Date: 2008/02/04 12:45:20, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
You know those rare moments when something stimulates so many ideas there's no room for any one thought to get out? Usually results in liquid spraying from the nose. Let's see... The last time I got to eat Lesbian it was very tasty and largely indistinguishable from... Oh well, I guess that'd be too low, even for this crowd. |
| Date: 2008/02/06 19:44:30, Link 24.149.157.128 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Brrr! That threat is enough to stop me from even thinking of the number mmrumph de munf |
| Date: 2008/02/19 14:38:23, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Whoa! Oh no! Tell me it isn't so!! You're JanieBelle? Gawd! I can never show my face in public again! I've been carrying a torch for her (and the corporal) for days. It must be another Evil Atheist Darwinist Conspiracy to lead us diety-fearing men astray. I'm so crushed, I may have to go out and play on the freeway. :( |
| Date: 2008/02/20 11:23:55, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Sorry, friend, but I must disagree. As Ron White* is fond of saying, "Ya cain't fix stoopid." *A rather amusing, good-ole-boy, stand-up comic over here. |
| Date: 2008/02/20 11:38:25, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Kristine, Fundagelicals deem Bible scholars anathema. Even theologians are suspect, particularly the Catholic ones. It seems a major point of the fundagelical movement is that you don't have to be smart, analytical, or have anything above a third-grade reading level, to get close to the devine. None of them nasty bishops standing between you and Gawd, no complicated or esoteric writing to decipher, just the ineffable, inerrant, infalible Word of GAWD right here in this here book; that most of them have not read in its entirety. $0.02 |
| Date: 2008/02/20 11:45:29, Link 155.91.45.231 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
(Don't got no edit button.) BTW, I think having a Bible (or even Religious studies) scholar around would be fascinating. Most of us have some sense there's something wrong with fundagelical theology and it would be interesting to have somebody to point, and flesh, out those problems. But then, that might not be enough of a train-wreck for Evil Louis! |
| Date: 2008/02/21 11:40:16, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
Damn, girl! Now I gotta clean the snot and RC Cola off my screen. Hey, J-Dog, how does it feel to be walking around with nothing below the knees? |
| Date: 2008/02/21 16:03:50, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Sounds like New Joisey. I was born and raised out West; moved to NJ back in '93 (in a covered wagon, up hill both ways, by crackey!) These mangy varmints they call deer out here are a real nuisance. Did, however, see an albino once. It was cool except for what it said about predator depletion and likely over-population too. The one fantastic/disappointing experience I had was driving back West with my son a couple of years ago (he goes to school in Olympia, WA). We stopped in Yellowstone, in the middle of Elk rutting season. The bull elk were magnificent in appearance but I couldn't believe their rutting calls! Nothing that big and regal should have a call like a cranky 6 mo. old baby! Saw the rest of the big five while we were there: bison (hard to miss - they're all over the place), prong horn, moose (in the Tetons), a single Griz. |
| Date: 2008/02/21 16:20:58, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Gotta tell you a story. I swear on a stack of Origin of Species that this is true. Sr in college -- '73 I guess it was -- my girlfriend in those days and I drove down to San Diego to a relatively new Lion Country sort of thingy (can't remember if it was an actual Lion Country or a clone). Back in them days, you drove through the park and there were plenty of warning signs about keeping windows closed, don't harass the citizens, etc. So, we drive along the road and come around the bend just in time for an indian elephant to step onto the road, then just stand there sweeping up bunches of grass from the road's shoulder. My girlfriend, never the patient type (think that's why she dumped me), sat for a couple of minutes drumming her fingers on the steering wheel. Finally, she can't stand it any more, rolls forward a foot or two, and honks the horn! While I'm going "GAAAK!", packy looks over, hrm.. her(?) shoulder, twitches her ears a bit and then... I SWEAR... sat on the hood of the car!!! (would that have been the bonnet even though the boot was in front?) Well, maybe it was more like leaned one haunch on it for a second; doesn't matter, put a goodly sized crunch on the hood of her car. The rest of the story has to do with a chain-reaction accident we just barely avoided on the freeway and a CHP officer who didn't believe the story, either. |
| Date: 2008/02/22 18:09:46, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
Yep. That was us. We were at USC. Orange County... well, to us it was most of the way to San Diego. ;-) |
| Date: 2008/02/25 10:31:46, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Umm, you DO know you aren't supposed to use a Clap-On/Clap-Off for the power supply, yes? |
| Date: 2008/02/25 11:40:34, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Well, I agree the tard level at UD is unfathomable. Still, I suspect you might have had a better outcome if your irony meter had been Intelligently Designed. 0x1B |
| Date: 2008/02/25 12:57:52, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
An interesting article in the NY Times, today, about adults not hewing to their parents' faith. Came with a nice picture too: Bottom line is that the unaffiliated make up the forth largest group in the country. (The Times called it "religious group," scare quotes included.) According to the article, fundagelicals that change their affiliation, tend to go to another fundagelical church. Protestants, on the whole, however, are taking a hit, and the Baptists are losing the most within that group. But for Catholic immigrants, the RC looks to be heading for a crash-and-burn. Do wish the Times had found a more elegant way to describe the unaffiliated. Oh well. |
| Date: 2008/02/25 13:06:36, Link 155.91.45.232 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
Dang it! Here's the NY Times post. I don't really need an edit button, but I would look less like a fuzz-brain. :D |
| Date: 2008/02/27 09:39:29, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
WTF!!! That book DaVinci wrote? A comic book version? I'm so thunderstruck I can't come up with the words to describe how incredibly (what's the HTML for strikethrough?) inane septic is. Confusing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel fresco with a book by DaVinci just threw every circuit breaker I have. (Not to suggest, of course, that they weren't both equally great men.) AND THEN, he accuses us of not knowing anything about that which we criticize! I sincerely doubt septic has ever read the Bible in its entirety. He certainly hasn't read any Bible commentary or scholarly research. And he knows jack excrement about religious art and literature. Whew, somebody help me get all these circuits reset before there's a massive blackout all along the Eastern seaboard. 0x1B |
| Date: 2008/02/27 11:55:37, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
I'll see your smugness and raise you a cocky: Bring it on, Jack. |
| Date: 2008/02/27 12:50:45, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Before you go, weren't you going to show how advanced your understanding of the Bible is? Let's try a simple one: What effect did the Babylonian exile have on the development of Jewish, and ultimately Christian, theology? Please point to passages that support your view. Thanks. ETA: Is there a better thread for this discussion -- assuming there ends up being a discussion? |
| Date: 2008/02/27 13:32:17, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Damn! Strategic error on my part; trying to be kind to my acquaintances here, I inadvertently gave septic a way out of answering my question! (Although his mention of six relevant books in the Bible probably demonstrates that he has no clue what I'm actually talking about.) Hint: note the word development. Oh well, I never was any good at playing chess. |
| Date: 2008/02/27 13:42:53, Link 155.91.45.231 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
|
CJ, Were you the one who mentioned Bart Ehrman? I'd love to actually meet him, some day. I'm reading Misquoting Jesus right now. His Orthodox Corruption of Scripture is fascinating and revealing. Elaine Pagels's Beyond Belief is also very interesting. Oh, wait, there's a book thread, isn't there. <pushes keyboard away and runs> 0x1B |
| Date: 2008/02/27 17:06:28, Link 155.91.45.231 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
Me three. He was a top-flight grammarian and excellent writer. I appreciate those qualities regardless of the thoughts being expressed. Once, after being asked, somewhat snarkily, about his vocabulary he said something along the lines of... Most people use the words they know; I know the words I use. Man could cut you apart with a cotton ball. |
| Date: 2008/02/28 11:35:35, Link 155.91.45.232 | ||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||
Good Lord, man, buy a book! Cotton Mather (1662-02-12 - 1728-02-13) (Supporter of Salem Witch Trials) Johnathan Edwards (1703-10-05 - 1758-03-22) (Rejected by his congregation in 1749 for ignoring the Synods of 1657 and 1662.) Founding Fathers (a partial list, including the oldest): Benjamin Franklin (1706-01-17 - 1790-04-17) George Washington (1732-02-22 - 1799-12-14) John Hancock (1737-01-03 - 1793-10-08) Thomas Paine (1737-01-29 - 1809-06-08) Thomas Jefferson (1743-04-12 - 1826-07-04) James Madison (1751-03-16 - 1836-06-28) James Monroe (1758-04-28 - 1831-07-04) How, exactly, did the Founding Fathers lead Cotton Mathers and Johnathan Edwards astray when all but Benjamin Franklin were born after Mathers's death? The rest of your post is nothing but psychotic tinfoilhattery. How were the Puritans and Calvinists of New England any more the backbone of the country than the Protestants in the rest of the colonies. Indeed, the Puritans came to the New World because there was no state imposed religion, and the Protestants in the rest of the colonies did not recognize a central religious authority. These two facts allowed your so revered hellfire and brimstone preachers to prosper. By a vowel, greasy, this country was founded, and flourished, precisely because it was explicitly secular. The rest of your post really just belongs in your medical chart at the psych hospital you should be inhabiting. Sincerely, EoRaptor ETA: Yay! I gots a edit buttnz! ETAA: The formatting on the original post was so garbled, I couldn't really tell who said what. Whoever actually said that stuff about backbone of the country and the 1st Amendment belongs in Camarillo. |
| Date: 2008/02/28 22:11:37, Link 24.225.217.251 | ||||
| Author: EoRaptor013 | ||||
Well, I did foobar the situation by asking if another thread was more appropriate, nevertheless, I note that septic hasn't even provided a teaser answer to the questions CJ and I asked. And, of course, he hasn't shown the least sign of recognition that some of us Darwinistas might know as much, if not more, about the Bible than he does. Years to catch up, indeed. |
| Date: 2008/02/28 22:20:57, Link 24.225.217.251 |
| Author: EoRaptor013 |
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Jam, If I break my screen smacking that damned bug every time I see it out of the corner of my eye, I'm gonna send you the bill via my friends Rocco and Bufo, to pay for it! :angry:  With love, FormicaBane |
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