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Date: 2007/04/05 10:45:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And so ends another episode of Mystery Creationist Theatre 3000 starring FtK and her trusty sidekick, Nitwit the Newt.

I must say it was a fascinating discussion on "banning."  Never learned so much in one place about banning.

Typical creationist, however, FtK failed to address a single question about science.  Not one.  Oh, I forgot.  Creationists only answer questions under oath in a court of law, right Behe?

Date: 2007/04/06 23:42:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, you made me read the paper, too.

I have a question for FtK.  Dembski published the EF book years ago. What, five years or so?  Or more?

Since Dembski published a means to detect design, and this is a question for FtK, how many designs have been detected or proven by the EF?

There must be ten zillion biological thingies out there that were designed by the Great Designer, He who must not be named and for the sake of this argument I won't invoke the designer.

So, FtK, I'm curious to know what biological systems in the past decade have been proven or even indicated to have been designed based on Dembski's EF.

I know that I'm only a poor chemist but for the life of me I've searched high and low and I can't find a single example.  Not one.  Not a single one.  Not even a whiff.  A snippet.

Educate me, FtK, I sit at your feet.

Date: 2007/04/07 00:18:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill

So, Evil Richard says that the EF hasn't been used in 9 years in spite of 10 bazillion biological thingies to apply it to, disregarding the hanging participle.

Ten bazillion biological thingies that "could have been designed" but not a single case to demonstrate.

FtK, please contact Central Control and ask for an answer.  We await your reply.

Date: 2007/04/07 10:19:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, the Dembski Dodge.

"Oh, my, look at the time!  Pathetic levels of detail are so boring.  Rhally, they are."  *sound of little feet running into the distance*

Date: 2007/04/07 13:23:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Doesn't understand science.

Doesn't read.

Can't cook.

That would be three strikes.  You're out, FtK!  Batter up.

In between your posting of hundreds of lines of drivel, perhaps you could address a couple of sciency questions:

1.  How many articles describing the theory of ID were submitted to science journals by ID scientists in the past year?  (I'm sure your personal friend Dembski could explanatory filterize an answer for you.)

2.  How does ID explain speciation?  I must be missing something because I can't figure it out.

Thanks, FtK

p.s.  for the ham, if it's a cured ham it only needs warming through, but 20 minutes per pound at 350 degrees would do the trick.  Basting with apple cider will give it a nice glaze that's not too sweet, and it will keep the surface from drying out.  For a large ham covering it with foil will also keep the surface from drying out or over-browning.

For a large pork roast, you can braise it in a large roasting pan.  Sear the outside if you can in a large skillet, then place the roast in the roasting pan fat side up.  Add about an inch of dry white wine, or apple cider, or water.  Cover and bake at 350 for 20 minutes per pound plus 20 minutes.  Use an instant read thermometer to check the internal temp.  Above 160 and it's done.  If you want the surface brownd, remove the foil or cover about half way through cooking, although you'll get fat splatter in your oven.  Not a big deal, but it might smoke a little.

Date: 2007/04/08 15:06:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ April 07 2007,19:40)
I don't have a problem with "evolution".  I understand the mechanisms, and I readily accept the empirical evidence that supports the theory.  

I have a problem accepting macroev. and common descent as "facts".  

Both of these statements can't be true.

You understand the mechanisms and readily accept the empirical evidence that supports the theory, but you don't accept macroevolution?

Nonsense.  You have no more undersanding of the mechanisms of evolution than winged monkeys flying out of Lenny's posterior orifice!

The problem scientists have with creationists (pay attention, FtK) is that creationists just make things up.  Take Ken Ham (please!) for example.  Hard to wish away dinosaurs 'cause the skeletons are all over the place. So, we'll put them in the Garden of Eden!  But, you say, they would eat Eve!  Ah, no, at that time they ate coconuts.  Before the apple-serpent thing.

It's not what creationists believe, rather it's the intellectual dishonesty with which creationists present their arguments that causes controversy.

Under oath in a court of law Behe testified that ID is not science, yet here he is a year later on the talk circuit spouting forth his same old arguments as if nothing ever happened.  That's dishonest.

And when a school board gets infested with dishonest creationists then it takes time and money to clean up the mess that shouldn't have been caused in the first place.

So, yeah, I have a problem with creationists.  I understand their tactics and I readily accept the historical record that given half a chance creationists would push their religious views into the science classroom.

I have a problem accepting creationism and "intelligent design" as science.

Date: 2007/04/09 13:27:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ April 09 2007,13:15)
I cannot fathom how in the world you can actually believe that the mechanisms of evolution are as powerful as you believe them to be.

If you knew how to cook then you'd be able to answer this question yourself.

The secret is Time.

Learn to make gumbo and the entire theory of evolution will fall into place.

Date: 2007/04/09 17:46:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
UD hasn't had any "intelligent design" discussions in years.

It's all Christian apologetics, Darwinism is bad and crank de jour.

It could be that the Dembster is more concerned about getting a paycheck from his Bible College than he is about being an ID huckster.

Could it be that his new masters who control the pursestrings have offered young Bill a moment of reflection?  This is your bank account with UD (zero), and this is your bank account sans UD (salary).

Date: 2007/04/17 20:56:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK is typical of creationists and one should not be surprised nor disappointed at her lack of response to anything of substance.

Creationists have several traits in common.  First, they comfort each other.  You see this on creationist websites where it's all PTL and #### the Darwinists.  Second, when creationists venture out of their cloister they are very guarded.  Ask a creationist the age of the earth and it's like a deer in the headlights;  cat's got their tongue.  Flight instinct takes over and they run off yelling "unfair!" and declaim how mean the Darwinist's are for asking a question.

How many times, Lenny do you keep count, how may times have the questions been asked: what is the theory of intelligent design and how does it explain speciation?

What a mean question!  Evil Lenny!

However, all satire aside, it's clear the DI has fallen upon hard times.  For a start, cub reporter Casey Luskin has been replaced by a brainiac surgeon who demonstrates himself to be quite a devolved species from Phillip Johnson, op-ed pieces have dropped to zero, there are no school boards in the country pushing intelligent design.

For the moment, FtK and her creationist kind are washed up.  Old news.

But, as we all know, creationists are like locusts and have a 17-year cycle.  We'll be watching and waiting for the next outbreak.

Date: 2007/04/17 22:51:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Lenny -

Or they go deaf.

At Kitzmiller Behe had no problem hearing questions from the Thomas More attorneys, but as soon as the plaintiffs attorney started asking questions Behe had him repeat nearly every single one.

Huh, age of the birth?  Bridge of the girth?  Edge of the firth?

Over and over again.

What to you think, another 25 years?

Date: 2007/04/17 23:10:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill

All life is chemistry.

I am all life.

Lenny, eat your heart out.

Date: 2007/04/18 22:21:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Time to check the scoreboard!

Number of ID classes in public school:  0

Number of ID classes taught in college:  0

Number of ID classes taught in Bible college:  0

Number of ID publications:  0

Number of ID publication websites:  -2

Number of genomes of macaques published:  1

Surprising fact of 2007:  macaques are genetically predisposed to install radios in cars.  ID theorist and sciency guy Michael Behe proposed that car radios fell out of apartment buildings and installed themselves into cars.  Behe's theory is in serious peril at this point in time.

Oh, and last but not least,

Number of scientific discussions by FtK:  0

Hang in there, FtK, you're batting 0,000!

Date: 2007/04/24 15:31:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ April 24 2007,12:14)
I'm only here to correct serious misconceptions about my position that people seem to like to bring to this forum.

I see you made a typo in a previous posting.  Allow me to correct it for you at no charge.

FtK meant to write:

I'm only here to post misconceptions.

Much more accurate

Date: 2007/05/26 20:29:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Creationism rarely comes up in conversation, so it's not a problem for me.  If a friend or a colleague wants to make an asinine statement it's no big deal.  I am not the Teacher to send them to the corner.

On the Internet, however, it's different.  I have no respect for any creationist.  Not a single one.  In my experience they are all liars and I cut them them no quarter.  Satire is my weapon of choice and I don't hesitate to use it.  I don't debate creationists;  there's no point.  It's a hobby to poke fun at them.

The one exception that comes to mind, however, and this even I find amazing is David Heddle.  I disagree with him on many points and he drives me crazy but he, too, has been burned by the ID crowd but David's never been dishonest in my experience.  If he flies me to Hawaii I'll buy him a beer.

Heaven help the creationists or the DI if they come to Texas.  I will be on the front line and already contribute to the Texas Freedom Network and the NCSE.  Textbook selection comes up in a year or so and I'll be there watching, contributing and defending.

Date: 2007/05/29 02:02:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As an issue for science classes in public schools, I think ID is as dead as creationism and scientific creationism thanks to Kitzmiller.  Not quite the same coffin nail as a Supreme Court decision but enough to shut down the Disco Inst's influence in Kansas, Ohio, Michigan, etc.

That said, I remember hearing Garner Ted Armstrong 30 years ago, "The World Tomorrow" on AM radio, yammering on about evolution and putting forth the same creationist arguments we read about today.

So, maybe "dead" is the wrong description.  How about "neutralized?"  As long as we can continue to promote and strengthen good science education should we care how many gullible boobs Ken Ham fleeces at his Bible Diorama and Tire Emporium?

As for the Disco Inst, all you have to do is a Google Trends search to see that they have totally flat-lined.  Re: Gonzalez, news agencies are not picking up the story.  Even WingNut Daily has been conservative on the Gonzalez story, no pun intended.

Date: 2007/05/29 16:46:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Eight out of eight Americans know that Paris Hilton has been sentenced to 45 days in jail.

Americans care about the important stuff and the rest just takes care of itself.  Like, whatever, dude.

Date: 2007/06/10 19:16:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I subscribe to Science.  (yea, me!)

I read nine peer-reviewed papers this week, two of which dealt with evolution.  On average I read about 5 peer-reviewed papers a week.

Now, before FtK jumps all over me with congratulations on my scholarship, I would say to her that the US Post Office will deliver Science to your mailbox every week.  Without fail.

So, plunk down your 90 bucks American and join the club!

Put out or shut up.  (Now, that didn't sound right.)

Date: 2007/06/11 17:42:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's only June and already there's a tie for the funniest, most ridiculous, stupidest, abso-freaking-lutely inane statement by a creationist:

Woodward:  Evolution blah, blah, blah over by 2025.

Behe:  Malaria was designed!

There's still time for a dark horse to emerge and lead the field! Come on, Luskin, put on your thinking cap and get in there.

No, Luskin, not the pointy hat the "thinking" cap!

Date: 2007/06/17 12:47:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill

That says it all, doesn't it.

Yes, humor requires intelligence and a degree of mental freedom.

Take me for instance.  I'm very smart and very funny (I have a degree in Mental Freedom).  Really, just ask me.

I have never met a funny creationist as in funny-ha-ha.  They're all very serious, or childish or seriously childish.

I almost never engage them on topic.  Why bother?  They're not interested in the topic.  That's why I go for the juggler, instead.  Once you take out the juggler all you're left with is the dog act.

OK, here's an original unless my sub-conscious stole it, which is possible.

Dembski and a monkey go into a bar.
The bartender says to the monkey, "Hey, you know that guy?"
And the monkey says, "No relation."

Date: 2007/06/18 22:03:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No way, Steve!  I demand a recount.

OK, Dembski and a monkey walk into a bar and the bartender says to the monkey, "Is he with you?" and the monkey replies, "No relation."

(Now that's funny on many levels.  It's got a talking monkey and a twist on teh creationist.)

Then the bartender says, "He looks hot!  Is he erotic?" and the monkey replies, "Homo."

(That is a scream on several levels.  First, the talking monkey.  Always a winner.  Then the play on the creationist fear of homosexuals.  But the monkey's simple reply of "homo" could be taken several ways:  self, homosexual or homoerotic)  Drinks all around for the monkey.

As for how many AFDaves it takes to change a lightbulb the answer is zero because the light never came on.  Therefore, they don't know it's burned out!

OK, here's my final attempt for the night:

Paul Nelson, Dembski and Behe go into a bar.
Behe orders a duck on the rocks.
Dembski orders a Waterloo.
Nelson says he'll have what the other two guys are having.
The bartender says, "But what they ordered is nonsense."
And Nelson replies, "Well, make mine a double!"

I think I'm ready to quit my day job!

Date: 2007/06/18 22:39:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dear sceptic,

In a word:  rubbish.

Behe has abandoned science.  What science is in either of his books?  None.  Oh, yes, other people's science but Behe's interpretations of other people's work is neither science nor correct, as has been demonstrated in the unrefuted rebuttles to his work and his testimony in court. So, forget that line of reasoning.  It doesn't hold water.

It's not a matter of asking a question.  A four-year old could ask the question.  "Why is there air, Daddy?  How did the flagellum evolve, Daddy?"

However, Behe crosses the line when he declares in the Edge that malaria was designed.  He says that.  In print.  With no proof whatsoever.  None.  It's an assertion and no more. It's a statement made buy a dimwit and with that single paragraph Behe lost whatever shred of scientific credibility he had remaining, which I can't imagine was must after his Kitzmiller performance which certified him as an active member of the Crackpot Fraternity.

That Behe pontificates that malaria couldn't have arisen naturally is an assertion of his with zero evidence to support it.

The onus is on Behe to support his conjecture and to this day he has not done so.

Date: 2007/06/18 22:45:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'd like to say I'm opening at the Sands but does the Sands even exist?

Behe goes into a bar and orders a Zombie.

The bartender looks at him and says, "Sorry, Dembski left 10 minutes ago."

Am I on a roll or what?

Date: 2007/06/18 22:59:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
mr. DNA,

I bow at your feet.

Doc Bill

Date: 2007/06/18 23:29:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Behe is celebrating the publishing of Edge of Evolution.  After 10 pints, turns and hurls on the floor.

There amongst the chunder is a copy of Darwin's Black Box.

Behe says, "I don't remember regurgitating that."

Date: 2007/06/20 19:27:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it's as simple as learning to think for yourself.  Science notwithstanding.

As people become more educated (Mike Egnor excluded) the size of the gap holding God approaches zero.

It was most telling that in a video interview Ken Ham, arch creationist, was explaining dinosaurs.  He said he couldn't ignore them.  Here were the bones.  He couldn't wish them away, he couldn't ignore the evidence.  So, he solved his problem by putting them in the Garden of Eden!

Eventually people are going to say things like, "You know, Vern, bible dinosaurs is really stupid, ain't it?"

Date: 2007/07/01 12:55:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, at least you have a Wikipedia entry.

Unlike the rest of us down here in the bottom of the Primordial Soup bowl.

Date: 2007/07/02 12:39:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'll be a minion.  It would be a step up from my current job.

One condition, though, I'll need a nametag that says "Doc Minion" and a card that gets me 10% off at the bar.

Date: 2007/07/03 07:16:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I dropped this comment on UD last night.  This morning it has evaporated:

Chemistry and math?

Hannah Maxson, Cornell.

Prez of the ID Club.

Good choice.

I thought it was a good guess since they were being so secretive.  Ohhhh, don't want to ruin the student's career having accepted a whole $100 from the Disco Institute.

At least Hannah could use the coin to buy a real science book.

Date: 2007/07/03 22:53:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, I'm the Wisecracking Sidekick!

Did you see the size of Behe's codpiece?

Neither did I.

Date: 2007/07/04 12:03:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Atheist morality" explains why the prisons are crammed full of atheists.

Gangs, they're all atheist:  Crips, Bloods, MS-13, Opus Dei

Every one of them.  

Lying politicians:  atheists

Jailed evangelists:  atheists

What you see is only the very tip of the problem.

Oh, yeah, icebergs:  atheists

Date: 2007/07/06 17:18:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, all you atheist bashers!

Get off my lawn!  Ya hear!

I'm calling the cops!  So, git and stay git!

Date: 2007/07/17 09:20:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Refresh my memory, old feeb that I am.

When has Paul Nelson ever given a straight answer or a truthful answer to any question posed?

I think there was one instance many years ago, but I don't recall exactly.

(And these people want to teach our children.  How special is that?)

Date: 2007/09/02 17:12:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I have never met a funny creationist except in the pathetic case, of course.

To a man (and we can open a separate thread on whether or not O'Leary falls into this category) they are all very serious.

No, granted, the Dembster his own self has tried to lighten things up only it's like he never graduated from the Fifth Grade.

"I see London.  I see France" sort of humor.  Not the rich sophistication we enjoy on this board.

Could it be that lying for Jesus uses up all the karmac energy that would otherwise go into humor?

Here's a quick example that would throw the creo's for a loop.  Simple question.

What did people say before they could say "Jesus Christ?"  Like, "Jesus Christ, look at the size of that cockroach!"

What did they say before?

"By the rays of Ra, that's one nasty lookin' bug, yo!"  Just guessing.  Maybe Egyptians didn't say "yo" but they probably had a similar word.

Date: 2007/09/02 19:06:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The serious side to all this is that Dembski has, once again, poisoned the waters at Baylor for ID.

Marks has no chance whatsoever of putting together an "infometrics lab" at Baylor following Dembski's antics.

The Baylor science faculty aren't stupid and they will view this latest attempt at building a creationist foothold in science and engineering for what it is: ?pseudoscience.

Thanks to Dembski, aka Botnik, that's all too clear.

So, maybe we should thank Dembski for his untiring work in demonstrating that ID is pseudoscience.

Date: 2007/09/02 20:39:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I smell the creationist troll.  Sorry in advance for my cynicism.

Oh, I'm new to this debate.

Tell me about the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Oh, but what if the Universe is a closed system fralscroblem framastat!  Then what.  I read that that's the case and therefore Charles Darwin was insane.

Yes, we've heard it all before.

Date: 2007/09/07 12:28:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought.

Is this thread for VMartin or Paul Nelson?

Something about not answering questions...

Date: 2007/09/09 17:58:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I guess a larger question is why are YEC's so reticent to stand behind their claims of a young earth?

Why the "don't ask, don't tell?"

I've seen this behavior for decades and it's the same over and over.

Where's the conviction?

Date: 2007/09/13 22:56:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
On his blog Dembski writes:

At this point the only thing that would work is if the Baylor Board of Regents placed his job in jeopardy (Board of regent member to President Lilley: “What about academic freedom don’t you understand?”)

So, Dembski thinks that emails from a bunch of crackpot creationists to the Board is going to put pressure on the Board to give Lilley the Lecture.


Do you think Dembski uses dolls to help him act out these fantasies?

Dembski is GI Joe and Lilley is Elmo, maybe?

Date: 2007/09/14 01:20:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, J, I'd speak in tongues and do the chicken thing for $5k.

Whom do I contact?

Date: 2007/09/14 16:26:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (factician @ Sep. 14 2007,14:56)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 14 2007,14:36)
Dippy Joe, pure Tard:

Aren't they worried they may some day run out of Tard?

I think you just disproved the "conservation of information" claim.

Uncommon Descent generates tard from nothing!

I used to think UD was an intelligence black hole;  no intelligent thought ever survived the event horizon.

I could be wrong, but it appears that UD is some kind of worm hold tard generator.  It might explain dark matter, too.

Date: 2007/09/19 18:54:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ohhhh, is widdle Dr. Dr. Willy feeling bwuised by his twashing at the hands of Oklahoma University art students?

Poor, Dr. Dr. Willy was painted bwue and tattoowed.  Ouchi mama!

Takes it out on Rob who asked a reasonable question, but poor Dr. Dr. Willy has had two many weasonable qwestions asked and he's not a happy Willy is he?

Pwnd by art students has to be a new low for intelligent design and a new high for art students.  

(That's "art," Dembski.  With no "F.")

Date: 2007/09/21 18:17:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's hard to believe that it just keeps getting better and better.

First, Dembski makes himself as popular as a turd in a punchbowl, then he brags about it.  Way to go Dr. Dr.!

I'm sure Lilley is quaking in his boots with Dembski AND Ben Stein on his tail.  Don't forget the creationist film crew from the hot, new show 60 Nanoseconds.

I'm trying to get this all straight but it's very confusing.

Dembski, who got taken down intellectually by a bunch of art students in Oklahoma, really, really, really believes that he can browbeat the president of Baylor to allow Dembski to take his family to Sunday dinner at the school cafeteria.  And to show he means business, Dembski not only publically insults said president of Baylor, but he publishes the names, home addresses, phone numbers and emails of the entire Board of Regents so they can be harrassed by creationists.

You know, it's crazy enough it might just work!

Date: 2007/09/21 19:32:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, I'll come clean.

As a card carrying member of the NCSE and the President of the Darwinian Pressure Group (Delta Pi Gamma) I admit that I worked through my contacts at Sohexho to force president Lilley to remove the ID Evo Ex Miraculous lab from Baylor or face the consequences:  no chicken fried steak on Fridays.

Furthermore, should Dembski appear at the cafeteria workers are instructed to serve him only warm milk and tuna on white.

I realize this is very cruel, but it had to be done.

Date: 2007/09/26 10:28:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Louis - brilliant summary.  Absolutely brilliant.  I'm saving it in my File of Brilliance!

The team analogy rings true because people have irrational allegiances to their teams.  Any Chicago Bears fans here?  Celtic fans?

But, you can be a Bears fan without being irrational.  It would be irrational (and stressful) to be a Cowboys fan secretly while professing to be a Bears fan openly.  I think that kind of stress leads to a form of sports rabies.

That brings me to conservatives and liberals, and the stress that must result from being liberal but professing to be conservative, leading to intellectual rabies.

Conservatives are people who are careful and cautious, who hang with the consensus, who examine things closely and long before making a decision, frugal with resources.  In short, scientists.

Liberals, on the other hand, are attracted to causes, are passionate, make quick decisions based on emotion, and are accepting and embracing of counter-cultural ideas.  In short, fundamentalist Christians.

Just look at the list (and add your own!):

1.  Drawn to conspiracies.  (ID can't publish because journals are "against" it)

2.  Follows promoters of radical, unconventional, edge ideas.  (Behe, Dembski, Wells)

3.  Champions free speech and opposes dissenting ideas.  (Teach the controversy!)

4.  Values opinions and feelings over hard, dry facts.  (We know design when we see it.)

5.  Is anti-establishment.  (Must change the schools, overthrow Darwinism, reject the status quo.)

6.  Tilt at windmills.  (Fight the military industrial complex, or, in this case, the scientific Darwinian establishment.)

These are all radical, liberal ideas and actions.

The FtK's of the world are not conservative by any means.  No, they are radical, liberal left-wing activists of the highest order.  But, like the fake Bears fan they pretend to support conservatism leading to mental turmoil, irrationality and, ultimately, intellectual rabies.

Date: 2007/09/26 11:42:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Point taken, Steverino.  Fortunately I didn't claim that what I wrote was well thought out!  (Dodged that bullet.)

At least I refrained from using the phrase "long-haired, commie pinko hippie" which was applied to me during my Shaggy Phase, and I voted for Nixon!

My interest has been in why people believe weird things, along the lines of Michael Shermer's book of that title.  In particular, the creationists, whom I've been following for nearly 40 years, fascinate me and just when I think I understand them, they evolve and elude my grasp.

During the late 80's when the court cases were going on in Louisiana and Arkansas, people like Steve Gould were taking the stand and giving evidence.  Reports appeared in Science weekly (pre-Internet).  From the reporting it wasn't clear how the court was going to decide the case.

It was Louis' post that got me thinking about fringe ideas, people who are attracted to them, etc.  I'll confess that I used "liberal" only to jack up Ann Coulter in case she reads this thread.

Date: 2007/09/26 12:55:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm also a lousy fisherman.  Explains a lot.

Date: 2007/09/26 14:29:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I once caught a cordovian blowfish in the River Tard but had to toss it back because it's IQ wasn't high enough.

Maybe it was because I was using young earth worms as bait.

Date: 2007/09/26 23:27:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So let me get this straight, FtK.

When PZ writes about Pax-6 as a master control gene, for example, a subject about which you probably know even less than you do about the age of the earth, you can tell that PZ is relying in part on speculation.

Is that correct?

Date: 2007/09/27 11:27:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 27 2007,08:32)
RBill writes:
The contrast between this effort and the baroque armchair bullshit of the Walt Browns and William Dembskis of the world could not be more clear.

This kind of crap used to send me into orbit, but I've grown quite accustomed to the arrogance and ignorance from mainstream scientists in regard to creationist work.

No doubt you're somewhat familiar with Brown's work, but to accuse him of "armchair bullshit" is pushing the limits here.  Brown has spent endless hours in the field, and I know this because I've had conversations with him about his work in this respect.  His most recent theory in regard to the Grand Canyon required an extensive amount of research in the field over the years.

Have you *ever* considered coming down off you high horse of arrogance and pick up a phone and talk to some of these creationists you so loath?  Perhaps your view of them is not as accurate as you would like to believe.

I can tell you long as you "mainstream" scientists refuse to take creationists somewhat seriously, and continue to treat them like dirt you'd like to scrape from underneath your shoes, the public is going to continue to view you as a bunch of arrogant assholes.

Several points.

First, thank you, FtK, for finally answering the question about how you detect bullshit.  From the comment you make about Walt Brown the answer is "you are incapable of detecting bullshit."

Glad we got that settled.

Second, Walt Brown's work falls into the classification of "bullshit" as defined by H. Frankfurt in is philosophical essay "On Bullshit."  I would not go so far as to call Brown a "liar" by the classic definition because I cannot confirm that Brown "intends to deceive."  

Regarding the term "armchair bullshitter" I would not use the term "armchair" when describing Brown.  Bullshit as described by Frankfurt is an unsubstantiated claim promoted by the claimant.  Certainly describes Brown's "research."  Brown's conclusions are not supported by any physical data, yet he continues to promote his ideas unchanged.  That is bullshit.

Third, I'm from Arizona.  I know the Grand Canyon.  I have studied the Grand Canyon in the Grand Canyon.  The Grand Canyon is a friend of mine.  Walt Brown is no Grand Canyon.

And, finally, FtK, here is the answer to the question "What is the age of the Earth?"

The age of the earth is 4.5 billion years to an accuracy of one percent.  Look it up in any 7th grade science book, or call the USGS and ask them.  This is a fact, not an opinion.  It's a fact.  Tin comes from Bolivia is a fact.  The earth is 4.5 billion years old is a fact.

Date: 2007/09/27 11:35:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, at least Dr. Dr. came clean on common descent:

William Dembski
9:08 am
For the record: I personally don’t believe in common descent though I think there are lines of evidence that suggest considerable evolutionary change. At the same time, there are lines of evidence that suggest considerable discontinuity among organisms. Check out chapter 5 of my forthcoming book with Jonathan Wells titled THE DESIGN OF LIFE (publication date keeps being delayed, but I think it’ll be out in November).

Date: 2007/09/27 13:02:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dr. Dr. will complain that Marks was bribed by a fat NSF grant (underwritten by the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma) to drop Dembski like a rabid gerbil.

Date: 2007/10/02 16:45:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, come on, now!

This is Dembski.  We know Waterloo Dembski of Judge Jones Flash fame.

Dembski doesn't apologize.  No way.  Especially not to Baylor.

What's in it for Dr. Dr. to apologize to Baylor?  Dembski is a turd in Baylor's punchbowl and there ain't no way, no how that he's going to set foot on campus ever again.

Do you really think that an insincere paragraph will soak up all the venom Dembski has spit Baylor's way?  NFW.

Au contraire, I think it's his current masters at Southwest who pointed out Dembski's distinctly un-Christianlike behavior.  And how it reflected poorly on Southwest Theological to have such an outspoken jackass on their staff.

Someone who has Dembski's jewels in a vise told him to wise up or ship out.  My theory.

Date: 2007/10/05 17:19:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Helloooooo, FtK!  Knock, knock (echo, echo).  Anybody home?

The Evolutionary Informatics Lab is on the web.  Same website as at Baylor, but on a different web server.

Right here:  Evolutionary Informatics Lab

It's owned by Dr. Dr., so we can safely assume Dr. Dr. owns a computer.

Therefore, FtK, unless you can prove that the Baylor servers somehow have better mojo than Go Daddy dot Com, I don't see that you have a point to make.

Not that evidence in front of your face has ever stopped you before.

Same lab, same Marks and Dembski, different server.

Date: 2007/10/06 22:27:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can't believe it.

Dembski's "apology" is not even cold and yet another insult is hurled at Baylor.

And, btw, have all the IDiots forgotten that is still "alive" and well on the web?  All they talk about is the Baylor web.

Psssst!  IDiots, it's over there ---->

Date: 2007/10/06 22:46:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Does this mean that UD is hosted on a Baylor server?

Ah, the plot thickens.

Date: 2007/10/09 12:35:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
According to DaveTard a cookie hit a brick wall and crumbled.  That's what I read.

This reads like JAD meets Guillermo Gonzalez.  Who will get the movie rights?

But what really gets me is that Paul Nelson conducts a drive-by fruiting on his own website.  Dang, the boy ain't even housebroken.

Date: 2007/10/09 16:43:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My sense is that Marks is no Dembski (unlike Wells who is a Dembski).

Marks just pulled in a NSF grant, for example.  Unlike Dembski, Marks has a career.

I just don't see Marks flushing his reputation down the crapper for the likes of Dembski, unless his ambition is to run against Behe for Mayor of Cranksville.

I vote he'll pull the paper and the EIL will quietly become boojumized.

Date: 2007/10/10 10:24:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Where do the FtK's of the world get any notion?

Can you imagine what science education would be under creationism?

It would certainly save time and money in teacher certification!  Anybody could do it.  Don't have to answer questions, or just make stuff up.  All answers are equally valid.

Everybody gets an 'A!'

Date: 2007/10/10 17:02:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, FtK, but you're wrong about Behe's flagellum refuting.

Behe hasn't refuted any proposal on the evolution of the flagella.  At no time, in no forum, in no publication, in no speech and in no blog has he taken any of the proposals and demonstrated that part or all of the proposal is wrong.  That would be refuting.

Behe hasn't done that.

Let me repeat.  Behe has never, not on a single occasion, refuted any proposal for the evolution of the flagellum.

All Behe has ever said is that the detail isn't sufficient.

Well, you know, I couldn't describe how to get to the grocery store in sufficient detail for Behe by describing every bump in the road and every bush in every yard, but for most people simply saying "go down 2.3 miles and turn left" would do the trick.

So, don't give us that "Behe has refuted" nonsense because we all know it's simply not true.

Date: 2007/10/10 18:11:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ Oct. 10 2007,17:21)

Therefore it is "poor science". :)  :)  :)

I really can't fathom how you, FtK, can have been involved in this evolution/creationism debate for as long as you have and make a statement like that.

You claim to have read this and that, and to have all this experience and to make such a ludicrous, inane statement as this is to beggar belief.

Haven't you ever heard of the Precambrian Rabbit?

The fact is, FtK, is that the theory of evolution has been supported by every single teeny tiny piece of data that has ever been discovered over the past 150 years.

Every.  Single.  One.

No exceptions.

Date: 2007/10/10 20:56:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've been on so many threads that I have a cardigan that will keep me warm at McMurdo Station.

Granted, there is a perverse fun in sparring with the creationists, although it's very frustrating dealing with cowards like Paul Nelson, ultimately my goal is to keep the FtK's, Kathy Martin's, Paul Nelson's, John West's, Behe's, Dembski's, Cordova's and all the other scientifically illiterate nitwits out of the public school.

That's the bottom line for me.  

I have no interest whatsoever in educating FtK.  F FtK as far as I'm concerned.  What I do have an interest in is the FtK's coming to Texas and influencing the biology textbook selection process.  Mark my words, I'll be there to defend science education.  Bring it on, jackasses.

Date: 2007/10/10 22:08:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Go away, FtK.

You are boring.

Date: 2007/10/10 22:42:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Go away, FtK.

You are still boring.  Take a long walk off a short pier.  Thanks.

Date: 2007/10/11 18:02:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Br'er Marks, he lay low.

Date: 2007/10/12 11:42:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Comment are open again at Behe's Amazon blog site:

Behe Amazon Blog

Instead of "Add a Comment" the button should read "Kick Me."

Date: 2007/10/14 18:30:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Behe is taking a pounding on the Amazon book site.  No response from him at all.

However, how can he respond since he's wrong in the first place?

No wonder he doesn't engage in scientific forums.  He wouldn't survive the first question.

Add to that Dembski's disembowelment at the hands of art students at OU and ID is not only on the ropes, it's KO'ed.

Date: 2007/10/16 00:47:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not content with being trashed on a book website, Amazon, Behe wrote a letter to Science whining about the unfavorable review given "Edge" by Sean Carroll.

With breathtaking inanity Behe lays out his complaint which Carroll completely smashes.  Apparently, it's Behe's modus operandi to ignore the literature, a la Kitzmiller.  I guess there's not much biochemistry published in church bulletins.

Carroll concludes with this paragraph, bolding mine:

If, as Behe now seems to imply in his Letter, he is a greater proponent of cumulative selection than I gave him credit for, why would he, with so many available examples, characterize it as "rare"? It is because cumulative selection is fully capable of producing what he claims Darwinian evolution cannot do. The minimization of cumulative selection and the complete disregard of a massive literature surrounding protein interactions are crucial to Behe's entirely unfounded conclusion that "complex interactive machinery … can't be put together gradually" (p. 81) and must therefore be designed.

Science 12 October 2007:
Vol. 318. no. 5848, p. 196

Date: 2007/10/18 00:00:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 17 2007,19:12)
I'm just amazed at people who think 'common sense' applies to things like the origin of universes.

They did, Steve-0!

A thousand years ago.

A question for FtK would be "Using common sense can you surmise that the Earth orbits the Sun?"

A follow-up question for FtK would be, "Using any means at your disposal could you prove that the Earth orbits the Sun?"

Failing A or B, FtK, would you conclude that the Earth does not orbit the Sun?

Not trivial questions by any means.  The basis of science and science education rests in these questions.

Date: 2007/10/18 11:52:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You are all bad people.  You made me go to UD and look.

First, there was this gem...

Thus, my assertion that the African Race has more information for color stands upon the scientific principle of subtractive color mixing!

Which is totally insane.  Not only is bornagain77 stupid, he's insanely stupid.

Followed by this from borne, who I assume is Son of BA77...

DaveScot: “lotf is no longer with us”

thanks, it becomes nauseating trying to reason against arrogant ignorance and poor logic.

I agree!  Lotf was arrogantly ignorant to posit that black absorbs, not reflects, light.

Date: 2007/10/25 08:50:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't think...

Quote mined from FtK's recent manifesto.

That sums it up nicely.

What has always bothered me about the ilk of FtK, and there are cadres out there, we've all come across them, is the complete willingness to embrace and champion craziness like Walt Brown, Hovind, Ham and others.

Fountains of the deep, racing continents, ice spheres, designed plasmodiums, changing radioactive decay rates and on and on, represent fictions built upon fiction to support fiction.

How strange is that considering the story of life as told through biology and chemistry is so fascinating.  It fills me with awe to think that the atoms in my body shot out of supernovas eons ago.  I can't imagine why anybody would think otherwise.

Date: 2007/11/02 20:01:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Rumor has it that PZ wears a codpiece.

True or False?

Date: 2007/11/02 20:09:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hang on a minute.

Behe is describing what God does or does not, can or can not do.

How does Behe know this?  Or even suggest it?

Like Behe's entire Life's Work this comes under the heading of Making Stuff Up.

Behe can't possibly know what God thinks about a tiger or a mosquito, much less what the tiger or mosquito thinks, or does.

HG Frankfurt would call this "bullshit."

So do I.  Bullshit, Behe.

Date: 2007/11/07 18:23:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
According to my sources the press teleconference was postponed due to illness (John West).

Hopefully, he didn't contract malaria.

Date: 2007/11/07 20:19:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seriously, no press conference.

Although, I've been wondering who the "16 lawyers and legal scholars" are?

Luskin, for sure.  deWolf.

Would they raid the Thomas More Law Center?  I thought they burned that bridge.

It's possible the DI fell to shoot-ready-aim and issued the notice for a conference before they had their ducks in a row regarding the "answer."

If there is no substance to their claim, which there isn't, perhaps they decided to regroup and wish the whole thing away.

There's no place like teh home!  There's no place like teh home!

Date: 2007/11/08 12:58:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill

1 book.

13 to go.

Date: 2007/11/09 16:13:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Disco Inst is now promoting Intelligent Design dot Org which according to Whois they purchased the domain in 1998.

But, and this is rich, there are videos of their Chief Scientist, Casey Luskin, telling us all what "intelligent design" is!

Hey, finally, a theoretical explanation.  All science, all the time.  At this rate Neo-Darwinialismness will be a thing of the past in no time.

Date: 2007/11/11 14:56:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't know what to say, except that I didn't know Behe had a tattoo.

Date: 2007/11/11 18:41:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
ERV is waiting for Behe.

Come on down, Behe!  Show us your (pseudo) Science!

ERV makes a point that NOBODY has come out of the woodwork to defend Behe.  Except, of course, BA77, aka Christopher, who was trounced in the comments on Amazon.

The creationist nitwits like Behe can only survive in their little world if they control the vertical, control the horizontal, control the comments.

Behe was shown to be a FOOL at Kitzmiller where he couldn't control the questioning and had to answer the questions.  Behe sealed the case for the plaintiffs.  Thank you, Michael!

Now, Mikey has a 5-part rebuttal to Abbie, the grad student's, inquiry.

Why, oh, why, Mikey, do you need 5 postings to reply to a "mean girl?"


Date: 2007/11/12 10:41:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
BA77 is jumping the shark over on the main forum (Ian Musgrave's 2nd open letter to Behe).

He doesn't have DT's Banninator to protect him.

BA77 says:
Is it even possible for the spiritual to interact with the material in a tangible way that can be detected scientifically?

I presume you will say no prior to investigation

Yet, To the dismay of materialists, Yes it is!

Here is a article I recently wrote showing how spirit and material interact.

Cue "Twilight Zone" music.

Date: 2007/11/12 13:28:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Phase 1 of 5 has been posted.

As expected, it's All Science, All the Time.

Behe's Reply Number 1

Date: 2007/11/12 14:42:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You should be quite honored, ERV.

Do you realize that Behe never, Never, NEVER responds to his critics.

Oh, hang on, Behe hasn't actually addressed anything scientific, so maybe his track record holds.

In any case, I like this line from Behe:

As far as I’m concerned, if a complete stranger sends me a message with a sneering tone like that, she can go soak her head.

If a "complete stranger" blah blahs "SHE" can go soak "HER" head.

I think your slip is showing, Dr. Freud.

Date: 2007/11/12 17:24:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This doesn't make any sense at all!

The Discovery Institute of Seattle is linking to a website run by a person who can't even state the age of the earth?

That's crazy!  That's insane!

... oh, now I get it.

Date: 2007/11/13 22:01:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yep, the Disco Inst looked like Major Twits by not responding to PBS.

Behe, especially.

At least good old Phillip Johnson had the backbone to speak his mind.

I like how Johnson referred to Behe as the "thick end of the wedge."

I'd call Behe "thick," too.

Date: 2007/11/14 00:38:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Creationists only get interviewed if they can control the horizontal and the vertical, that is, all the questions and all the answers.

I will never understand why Behe agreed to be part of Kitzmiller.  He was pinned from "hello."

Maybe he learned a lesson.

Date: 2007/11/15 19:35:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Just don't mention Mt. Rushmore.  Behe still uses that.

Still, it's just a "leaky cell."  Not a Real Evolutionary Change like wings or eyeballs.  Give me an HIV with eyeballs and we'll have something to talk about!

Notice how Behe buries his concession in the middle of a paragraph and soldiers on trying to minimize it.

Still, I've never seen Behe climb down on anything, including Mt. Mousetrap.

Date: 2007/11/16 12:42:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't recall that Behe has ever retreated on any point.


He still pulls out the Rushmore and mousetrap examples even though they were both completely dismissed a decade ago.

So, why now?

It's the thin end of the wedge for Behe.  If he can admit to overlooking a point that was central to his thesis in Edge, what else will he retract if pressed.

Few people have commented on Behe's most outrageous statement in Edge where he declares that the plasmodium was designed.  Not "could have been" but definitely was.  That seems to me to be a retraction worth going after.

Date: 2007/11/18 12:48:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow!  That is like the Best of FtK.

When's the movie come out?

Date: 2007/11/30 22:05:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Luskin writes:

“This is a clear First Amendment case,” said Discovery attorney for public policy and legal affairs Casey Luskin

How is Gonzalez a first amendment case?  That's freedom of political speech if I recall correctly.  

Isn't Luskin a Lawyer?  Did he go to Law School?  Did he pass the Bar?

Is Luskin a Total Idiot?

So, the DI is going to have a press conference where they say that Gonzalez's right to free speech (political) was...what.  What was done?

ISU bounced GG because he is a horse's ass.  Check chapter 5 of the ISU Tenure Handbook: Horse's asses may be bounced for cause.


Date: 2007/12/02 22:42:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK, if Gonzalez was fired, what's he doing here?

Gonzalez Staff

Fired means loss of job.  Out the door carrying a box of your personal stuff.

Do you just make stuff up, FtK?  Oh, sorry for the unintentional irony there.

So, tell me, FtK, did GG get a paycheck this month?  Last month?  The month before that?  And before that?  Does "fired" mean you keep getting paid?

Please, FtK, explain your definition of "fired" to me.  I'm all ears.

Date: 2007/12/03 00:42:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hello FtK!  Glad to see you're still hanging around here.

I wanted to clear up a point which will be beneficial to you so you don't make the same error again.

Gonzalez wasn't fired.

Being denied tenure is not being fired.  It's being denied tenure.

Lots of professors in science apply for tenure every year and some are granted and some are not.  Is it the end of the world?  Are those assistant and associate professors fired?

No, they are not.  Many work for a few more years and try again.

Gonzalez has not been fired.  So, to correct your error you should not go around saying that he has been fired because that is not true.

Will his contract with ISU be renewed?  Who knows?  I don't have a clue.  But, even if his contract is not renewed that's still not the same thing as being fired.

Being fired is very, very specific.  Human Resources in any college or business has strict rules about firing.  Firing is very different from not having a contract renewed.

So, to be very, very, very clear about this, FtK, Gonzalez has not been fired from ISU.

Now that you know the whole story I don't expect you to make the same allegation in the future.

Date: 2007/12/03 01:03:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Right.  And we're all waiting with baited breath to see GG's tenure file.  What did he do that would have earned him tenure.

Do tell.

Date: 2007/12/03 12:39:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Just a few items to clear up.

First, Dembski's lecture was taped by the people who sponsored him.  The sponsoring organization made the video available.  Everything was above board there.

Zero points to FtK for accuracy.

Now, back to our good friend Guillermo Gonzalez.  He's still employed.  Assistant Professor of Astronomy GG will probably get his next paycheck on Dec 17.

FtK said that GG was "fired."  Clearly, he's not fired or he wouldn't be getting paid.  Getting paid is sort of not-fired.

Zero points to FtK for accuracy.

Who else is also not-fired?

Behe.  Check, works at Lehigh U.
Sternberg.  Check, works for NIH.
Dembski.  Check, works at Southwest Whatever.
Marks.  Check, works at Baylor.

So, FtK, where are all these fired and persecuted people you keep blabbering on about?  Zero points to FtK for accuracy.

However, I will grant you 100 points for Making Stuff Up.  You've earned yourself a PhD in that subject!

Date: 2007/12/03 18:39:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, FtK, I forgot that mind reading was a necessary qualification for "intelligent design" as Behe demonstrated under oath in court.

I thought that when you said that Gonzalez was fired you meant fired as in terminated with cause, rather than "fired" as in "not being promoted."  

I had no idea that "not being promoted" was the same as being "fired" but now that I know what you mean I can be assured that when you say "persecuted" you mean "questioned."

I'm glad that's clear.

Also, it appears you were wrong, again, about the taping of the Dembski lecture at OU.  Trinity did the taping.  The Trinity that paid Dembski to talk.

So, I think you owe all of us several apologies and retractions.  That would be the right thing to do, after all, don't you think?

Oh, sorry about the "don't you think!"  Irony meters exploding all over the planet.

Date: 2007/12/03 20:26:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
On the O'Leary thread someone named Maya makes the following statement:

You may be being misled by part of the summary above. Ms. O’Leary wrote:

“Contrary to his public statements, and those of ISU President Gregory Geoffroy, the chairman of ISU’s Department of Physics and Astronomy, Dr. Eli Rosenberg, stated in Dr. Gonzalez’s tenure dossier that Dr. Gonzalez’s support for intelligent design ‘disqualifies him from serving as a science educator.’”

The full context of that quotation is:

“on numerous occasions, Dr. Gonzalez has stated that Intelligent Design is a scientific theory and someday would be taught in science classrooms. This is confirmed by his numerous postings on the Discovery Institute Web site. The problem here is that Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory. Its premise is beyond the realm of science. … But it is incumbent on a science educator to clearly understand and be able to articulate what science is and what it is not. The fact that Dr. Gonzalez does not understand what constitutes both science and a scientific theory disqualifies him from serving as a science educator.”

The concern is not about Gonzalez’s politics or religion but about his ability to serve as a science educator.

Good grief!  Attacking the O'Leary?  Where is the Banninator?

Date: 2007/12/04 15:04:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And after all that, press conferences, press releases and much ballyhoo the DI succeeded in stirring up exactly what?


Britney Spears ran three stop signs and generated 1,000 news articles.

The DI managed about 7 articles, excluding their own.  Lots of smoke, no fire.  Dog bites man.

Date: 2007/12/04 17:09:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'll claim "street theatre," rather than admit misspelling.

I mean, anyone can write "bated breath."  Boring.

Baited breath, however, is arty, edgy, hip, sushi.

However, in the end, I am stung by your ad homonym attack.

Date: 2007/12/22 01:07:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm surprised that Heddle has any truck with Dembski.

Heddle, as much as I disagree with everything he says, has a degree of honor.

Dembski has none.

Date: 2007/12/28 19:16:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK, if you Google "usgs age of the earth" you learn the following:

These calculations result in an age for the Earth and meteorites, and hence the Solar System, of 4.54 billion years with an uncertainty of less than 1 percent.

You would agree with that statement, wouldn't you?

Date: 2007/12/28 23:00:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, what's your regard for the USGS and their estimate of the age of the earth to a precision of 1% ?

Date: 2007/12/29 17:15:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK, according to Brown's book

What caused the extinction of dinosaurs? Primarily, the flood. Because dinosaur bones are found among other fossils, dinosaurs must have been living when the flood began. Dozens of other dinosaur extinction theories exist, but all have recognized problems.

What flood is Brown referring to?  Oh, Noah's Flood!  Silly me.

Obviously, Brown is a young earth Biblical creation scientist, so, how can he possibly discuss his "theories" without bring up his religion as they are one and the same?

(I know, why don't I ask Brown that question.  Thanks for nothing, as usual, FtK.)

Date: 2007/12/29 18:10:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, I gave you a chance to be honest, FtK, but you blew it as usual.

If you were a moron, FtK, I could at least pity you.  Or, if you were just plain stupid I could cope with that, too.

But, you're a dishonest liar and a fraud, all of which are your own fault and in your own control.

I wasn't going to bring this up, but since you so innocently wrote that Brown could have been talking about any old flood, this paragraph is on the same page in his book, directly below my previous quote:

Were dinosaurs on the Ark? Yes. God told Noah to put representatives of every kind of land animal on the Ark. (Some dinosaurs were semiaquatic and could have survived outside the Ark.) But why put adult dinosaurs on the Ark? Young dinosaurs would take up less room, eat less, and be easier to manage. The purpose for having animals on board was so they could reproduce after the flood and repopulate the earth. Young dinosaurs would have more potential for reproduction than old dinosaurs.

So, Brown is not talking about any old flood in his book.  No, he's clearly referring to The Flood of the Bible throughout his entire book.  And, you know that, FtK, which makes you a liar, don't it?

Why would anybody want to spend two seconds talking with an idiot like Walt Brown about his views on geology?  That would be a useful as talking with Kent Hovind about US Tax Law.

Date: 2007/12/29 19:10:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's just not your day, FtK.

I'll stack my PhD in Chemistry from Imperial College, London right up against a MechE any day.  I also taught in college and spent 30 years in the oil/gas industry.

Without bragging, I'd say that I've forgotten more about geology and geophysics that Brown ever knew.

And, finally, anybody who writes in a "scientific" book - and this is in Brown's book, you know - that there were no mountains before the Flood, sea level was two miles lower than today and that the continents moved to their present locations at 40 mph 6000 years ago is a 100%, Grade A, certified Idiot.  (With a capital "I")

Date: 2007/12/29 19:58:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow, two posts in a row without a lie!

That's got to be a record for FtK.

Date: 2007/12/30 10:30:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Walt explains all!

Hydroplate the Movie

You're right, FtK, it has nothing to do with the Genesis Flood!  (except the title.  oh, and contents. )

Date: 2007/12/30 17:57:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, here's the problem.  Creationists like FtK latch on to claptrap, flapdoodle and bunkum as written by other creationists like Brown and defend it as the Holy Grail.  It doesn't matter if the Academy of Sciences refutes Brown's work, the Ark and the Flood will still hold sway.

Well, here's the problem.  Creationists like FtK get elected to school boards and you end up with a Kansas or a Dover.

Well, here's the problem.  Creationists like FtK just make up stuff when it suits them.  But, don't argue against them because that's Viewpoint Descrimination, you know.

Date: 2007/12/31 08:20:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it's abundantly clear that Walt's book wasn't reviewed by anyone with so much as an 8th grade education.

Microscopic cracks propagating at three miles per second which is about 10,000 miles per hour?  When it comes right down to it the Biblical story of the flood is much more plausible than Walt's!

I still don't understand why creationists leap from one mythological ice floe to another.  Biblical flood myth to Walt Brown hydroplate myth to Ham's pineapple eating T-Rex myth to Dembski's explanatory filter myth.

Why are the myths so much more appealing than the real science?

Tell us, FtK, why do you need Walt Brown's imaginary continents rushing along at 40 mph when you can have real continents sailing along at two centimeters a year?  Why do you need a pineapple eating tyrannosaurus on a boat when you can have a real tyrannosaurus in a conifer forest chasing hadrosaurs?

Date: 2007/12/31 08:32:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Coconuts!  You're right and I am wrong.  I should have googled Ham (but not in the Biblical sense, mind you.)

Alas, I iz 2 late.  FtK iz gone and teh parteh iz over.

Dang, I'll never get an answer to my question from FtK, now.

Date: 2008/01/01 11:52:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not a very smart professor, although smart for a creationist professor.

Picture this:  ID supporting professor awaiting tenure.  Shhhhhh, must maintain low pwofile.  Iz be hunted by darwinists.  So, what's the best way to lay low?  Open up a blog on the Internet!  Shake those breadcrumbs everywhere!  Use reverse creation psychology.  Deh neveh finds me.

Date: 2008/01/01 12:14:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK apparently doesn't know that some animals have penises, but nothing analogous to a vagina; gametes are transferred by piercing the skin of a partner with the penis.

I bet Walt Brown knows.

Date: 2008/01/02 00:41:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wasn't Wells' book, "Politically Incorrect..." peer reviewed by Walt Brown?

FtK would know the answer to this.

Date: 2008/01/02 20:50:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK wrote:

Oh, hell.  Oh, hell. Oh, hell.  Oh, hell.

I'm thinking and my thoughts are becoming a tangled mess.

I couldn't agree more.

Date: 2008/01/02 21:08:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I predict that Dembski will be caught in the Baylor cafeteria disguised as Denyse O'Leary.

I predict Luskin will undergo a sex change operation and move to remote Vermont where he'll use his eyebrows to predict the severity of upcoming winters.

I predict that Phillip Johnson will be found to have died in 2003, but be less moribund than the "theory" of ID.

I predict that the ID's Axe Lab will equal its record number of publications for 2007.

Date: 2008/01/03 08:41:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK wrote:

Yet, from the atheist standpoint, the argument was not against morality, but rather hypocrisy.

No, FtK, you idiot, from ANY standpoint the argument against Haggard is hypocrisy.  Privately, Haggard was engaging in behavior that he vehemently opposed publicly.

And, since you are a self-proclaimed expert on standpoints what would be the Buddhist standpoint?

Don't think too hard about it, FtK.  Just make something up for our amusement.  It's working for you so far.

Date: 2008/01/03 09:22:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I find myself starting off the year agreeing with Heddle!

This does not bode well for the space-time continuum.  Something is amiss!

Spock has a beard in my universe.  How about yours?

Date: 2008/01/03 16:48:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You people need to quit trying to make a liar out of me.

This is a lie.

Because I have always been truthful about everything I've ever written about.

And this is a lie.

I'd call that a two-fer.

Date: 2008/01/03 17:00:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill

True atheists wear white hats.

Date: 2008/01/03 18:31:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In your world, FtK, do bears steal picnic baskets and pull pranks on park rangers?

Date: 2008/01/05 16:33:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Professorsmith is a linguist because we're speaking English and she's speaking Creationese.

(News flash to Professorsmith re: tenure - Time to activate Plan B.)

Date: 2008/01/05 17:04:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK wrote regarding ERV's pwning of Behe:

I think you give yourself too much credit.  Your point does not destroy his entire position, ...  

I disagree completely!  ERV did a masterful job of demolishing Behe's argument.  And, since I have an advanced degree which makes me an expert on the subject, my opinion is worth precisely 13.7 billion times more than yours.

Behe screwed up more than scientifically.  He wasn't careful setting up his review on Amazon and enabled comments by mistake.  He only made that mistake once, but it was enough to put him in a bind.

Once comments were enabled then he had to respond to the public conversation that was happening on his site.  After all, it was his posting.

Oh, yes, FtK, young ERV like Sampson pulled down the pillars of Behe's argument totally and completely.  Worse for ID, Behe admitted it.

ERV turned Behe's "edge of evolution" into a butter knife.

I, therefore, do hereby give ERV all the Credit in the World and bet 20,000 quatloos on her next successful adventure.

Date: 2008/01/05 23:40:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Privileged Planter.

Is that about wealthy nuts?

Date: 2008/01/05 23:51:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thoughtless Provoker wrote:

How dare I try to stir up the Status Quo people are comfortable with?

No.  How dare you try to bamboozle us with bullshit.

Tell you what, TP, give me a definition of design that would unambiguously identify a Henry Moore sculpture without any reference to Henry More or sculpture in general.  In other words, given a Henry Moore sculpture found in a field, step me through the proof of design.

Do the same for an abstract painting designed by me and paint spilled on a canvas in my garage following an earthquake.

I want an objective definition of design that even my cat could apply.

Meanwhile, TP, I'll content myself to the songs of crickets.

Date: 2008/01/06 11:23:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, TP-Behe, Rushmore has been done.

Clearly, the Moore sculpture was designed.  We know that because there are records of Moore doing the work.  That's not the point.

Given a Moore sculpture found in a field demonstrate to me, scientifically, objectively that it was designed.

But, let's not be coy, TP.  You can't.  Neither can Behe nor Dembski.  That's because you have no clear, objective, unambiguous, measurable, independently observable metric of "design."

All you have is "well, it looks designed to me."

Until you come up with something concrete, or dare I say it, bronze, Jack, you ain't got jack.

Date: 2008/01/06 11:37:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sal Genesis 1.

Sal Genesis 2.

What's the big deal?  He's working from a model.

Date: 2008/01/06 19:04:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There was a flap a while ago about how this appeared in quite a few textbooks,

There was a "flap?"  No guy writes like this.  Sounds like FtK to me.

"quite a few textbooks" is an obvious lie.  Also, sounds like FtK.  Vague, weak and unsubstantiated.  Coffee circle talk.

Hey, FtK, got a new pseudonym?

Date: 2008/01/07 11:09:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You're ducking the question, TP.

What's the objective metric for design?

Date: 2008/01/07 21:57:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Excuse me, TP.  Two questions.

What is design?

Since you seem to have a corner on the manure market, what do you charge per square yard to mulch my garden?

Date: 2008/01/07 22:02:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not to derail this thread (as if THAT's POSSIBLE!) but we had a place at Purdue called The Pub.  I liked it because it had paintings of dogs playing poker.  They always cracked me up.  

Oh, and beer was $1.25 a pitcher.

Date: 2008/01/07 22:58:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
To bring back to topic, I think FtK was playing poker with the dogs in that painting.

I'm, like, ten to the hundred and fiftieth percent sure.

Date: 2008/01/11 17:47:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Karankawa Indians of south Texas ate dirt.  They pounded mesquite tree seed pods into the soil, mixed it thoroughly and ate it.

Date: 2008/01/11 19:20:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, the Karankawa's were a tough lot, unlike the followers of Lot, the Idonthgotaclu.

The K-tribe ate roasted yaupon tree, "ilex vomitoria," which gave them visions that I think were important to get them through school board meetings.

Anyway, there were many discussions at Karankawa councils on whether to eat dirt, poke a hot stick in one's eye or eat yaupon until one vomits.  The closest translation of this discussion is "teach the controversy."

It appears that the history of Texas is destined to repeat itself.

Date: 2008/01/14 22:58:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Billy's ego is much bigger than his brain.  Do you really think that if he actually had a "list of ID predictions" he would have ballyhoo'd them every chance he got?

Billy ain't got no list of ID predictions.  He's fishing.

Now, some years ago Wells made a prediction that centrioles in cells acted like little turbines because they looked like turbines.  However, that prediction was shown to be false and he doesn't talk about it any more.

To be generous to old Dr. Dr. Billy, though, I'd like to offer an ID prediction myself.

I predict that Dr. Dr. Billy will get no free lunches in the Baylor cafeteria in 2008.

Date: 2008/01/17 18:43:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Once again we all owe Dr. Dr. Dembski a debt of thanks for demonstrating that the scientific output of "intelligent design" is exactly ZERO.

After 153 comments the number of cases where ID has made a prediction that has been subsequently proved is...

... drum roll please! ...


Absolutely NONE.

You know, when you ask for comments and the most reasonable comment comes from Larry Farfarman it's going to be a long night.

Date: 2008/01/18 19:56:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You evolved?

We were too poor to evolve.  We had to mutate our genes by hand, at night, in the snow, uphill.  Both ways.  Barefooted.

I had to wrap my bare feet with barbed wire for traction.  

In Houston, no less.  We were too poor to afford good weather.  All we had was darkness and snow.  My uncle found a penny, once, and we got to see the sun for about two seconds.  I think I was nine at the time.

Date: 2008/01/18 20:07:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think this is the White Breasted Sweaterdork.

It's call is "uh-uh  uh-uh  uh-uh."

It's natural habitat is college cafeterias near Waco, Texas and it has been known to dumpster dive for sustenance.  In the wild the Sweaterdork can be found associating with the Pacific Luskin Nutcase and the Eastern Behe Cuckoo.

Date: 2008/01/18 20:47:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Prof is not a prof.

Forget the discipline.

Prof can't even write a sentence decently.

Prof has a high school education at most and is a poser.  I've been following creationists for over 30 years and "Prof" merits a C- grade at best.

Date: 2008/01/19 18:23:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I bought "Inner Fish" last week while cutting through B&N during a rain storm.  It was just sitting there on the Just Published shelf waiting for me!

Shubin spends the first part of the book describing how the search for a Devonian critter was conducted and how Tiktaalik was discovered.

After reading even just the first part of the book, FtK should be able to answer these questions:

Why did Shubin go to Canada above the Arctic Circle to prospect for fossils?

How long did it take (years or expeditions) before Shubin's team found Tiktaalik?

How was Tiktaalik discovered?  Did they step on it?  Did it fall out of the sky?  Before Tiktaalik, what fossils were being discovered mostly in the area?

What is the immediate physical feature that caught their attention about Tiktaalik and why?

Of course, I will not be holding by breath waiting for an reply. FtK doesn't have to read the book.  She could browse the first 20 or so pages and answer every one.

She's probably too busy reading peer-reviewed publications, anyway.

Date: 2008/01/19 18:26:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mr. Great Britain!

Was that you in the Union Jack Speed-o?

Date: 2008/01/20 11:31:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, TP, you have returned.

Let's get back to basics.

Please provide us with an objective definition of "design" and a metric or metrics with with to measure it.

As for your quantum ramblings you might want to investigate stochastic localized quantum coupling which is quasi-random, but corresponds closely with alpha and beta wave activity in the brain.

Date: 2008/01/20 13:40:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hello, TP, glad to see you're busy.  Idle hands are the Devil's plaything, or something like that.

If the Mandelbrot Set meets your definition then so would the Cornish-Pastie Set, or this

f(x) = x + 1

Sorry, TP, but you don't get to pass GO without giving us a definition of design and metrics with which to measure it.

Date: 2008/01/20 22:24:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Here's what I expect, TP.

I expect that you deliver an objective definition of design and the metrics with which to measure it objectively.

Applying those metrics to a smooth pebble and a Moore sculpture should identify the sculpture as designed and the pebble as natural.

Applying those metrics to a can of paint I deliberately threw on my garage floor against a can of paint that fell off a shelf should identify my toss as design and the fall as natural.

But, I toy with your tiny, uneducated mind.  I apologize for being cruel and unfair.

The fact is that ID proponents like Dembski, Behe and the anonymous coward "Mike Gene" have no clue, as in "are clueless" as to what design is.  Sorry, but knowing it when you see it is not scientific.

Behe's "purposeful arrangement of parts" is a totally useless definition.

So, what you have, TP, old bean, is a bunch of nothing.  And, furthermore, if you think you can pull quantum mechanics out of your diaper and bamboozle me with sci-cho-babble you are sadly mistaken.

Tell you what, you get Zuul to conjure up Jessica Alba in my office and then we'll talk.

Until then, spend your energies on growing up.

Date: 2008/01/20 22:28:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"beasted by FtK"

OK, which one of you preverts is going to buy me a new keyboard that doesn't have wine spewed all over it?

Date: 2008/01/20 22:56:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Please, TP, cry me a river.  I've been dealing with creationists for over 30 years which is why I'm so cranky.

"intelligent design"

You can't define design, you can't identify the intelligence.  

Simple math:  0 + 0 = 0

Mike Gene sez:  60% of my calculation indicates that looks like a zero.

Dembski sez:  If it's not 1 it's got to be a zero.

Behe sez:  Zero appears to be a purposeful arrangement of zero parts.

TP sez:  The quantum probability of zero on my screen could tunnel into a quantum reality on your screen.

Now, if my deliberately insulting behavior pisses you off, then you're close to realizing how we all feel about you, TP, old bean, and your constant flow of drivel.

(taking unwarranted liberties to speak for the group; apology in advance.)

Date: 2008/01/21 13:27:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I find it quite refreshing when a creationist self-destructs and his little neurons float down like a spring rain.

Hypatia was a scholar, not a scientist.  That is not a nit pick.  You are simply wrong, TP, again.

As for Dembski's and Wells' honesty, where do we start?  Copyright infringement?  Lies?

What happened to your "science?"  Where are your quantum hand-wave fluctuations?

Seems like you've gone off on a creationist bender to me.  What happened to the argument.  Oh, I forgot, you don't have one.  But you are funny,  I'll give you that.

But, not funny ha-ha, alas.

Date: 2008/01/21 13:31:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Actually, using Behe's definition of science which encompasses astrology, all of the predictions including Denyse's are perfectly valid.

I could even add another:

"You will meet a tall, dark, fish."

Date: 2008/01/21 22:36:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
TP wrote in part regarding my correction that Hypatia was a scholar, not a scientist:

Personally, I think of people who deal with applied mathematics and astronomy as being more than just a scholar.

But I have never been big on worrying about correct terms.

Well, that's the problem with creationists, isn't it?  You just make stuff up.

As for your assertion that I engaged in an ad hominem attack, that is just plain false.  I never said what you wrote was wrong because you are an idiot.  That's an ad hominem attack.  I said what you wrote was wrong.  Period.

I could go farther by saying that both what you wrote and what Mike Gene wrote is fiction.  Neither is that an ad hominem attack.

But, then, you play fast and loose with definitions so I guess it doesn't matter on your planet.

So, getting back to definitions, what is the definition of design?  How is design measured?

"Intelligent design," TP, is stuck firmly on this basic point.  It simply can't be blown off.  If you can't define design and provide a metric to measure it, you don't have a theory.  Neither does Dembski, Wells, Behe or Gene.

Flap your gums about multiverses and quantum Albatrons all you like, but here you are stuck and here you will remain stuck until you can answer my question.

Define design.

Date: 2008/01/22 10:42:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
TP stomps feet and writes:

P.S. to Doc Bill - get a dictionary and define "design" for yourself

That is creationism in a nutshell:  appeals to authority and dictionary definitions.

Nice.  But, it's not science.  It's not for me to define "design" because I make no claims that there is design in nature.

Without a definition of design and metrics with with to measure it the "Design Matrix" is a completely and totally useless exercise.  Although, you may be right that it's the best ID book on the market.  The Design Matrix explains nothing, predicts nothing and has no more scientific value than Battlefield Earth.

There is no difference between Gene and Dembski in their attempt to create a "theory" of ID other than Gene lacks academic credentials, accreditation and any attempt at mathematical rigor.  And both are far less entertaining than L Ron Hubbard.

Date: 2008/01/22 22:32:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm here strictly for the mocking, TP.

Hopefully, it will earn me tickets to a cricket match which will make your stupidity worthwhile reading.

First of all let me say that I always capitalize quantum physics.  Always.

Second, here is my Quote o' teh Weak:

I am more comfortable with quantum physics than biology.

My school was so poor it could only provide quantum mechanics.  We were so poor we could only afford the first two terms of a Taylor series.  We were so poor our delta pi gamma function was in lowercase.

What is the main purpose of a delta pi gamma function, TP?  Any clue?

You getting any of this, TP?

Finally, please don't get the impression that we don't like you, TP.  Far from it!  You're the best thing for creationism since UFO's built by Satan.  Hang in there.

Date: 2008/01/23 01:07:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yo, TP, still cutting and pasting I see.

Since you gave up on a definition of design, perhaps you'd like to enlighten us on your personal interpretation of the delta pi gamma function.

I don't expect any math since you're a poser, but a layman's description would be a good start.

How about something easy?

Given a triple integral of delta bounded zero to one, dx, how would you apply the dpg function?

Granted, this is graduate level quantum mechanics, but take a stab anyway.

Date: 2008/01/23 09:21:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Rats!  I think Louis is going to win the cricket tickets.

I so wanted to see Huddersfield play Lower Gramble.

Pity, that.

Date: 2008/01/23 17:15:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Geeze, Heddle, I find myself agreeing with you more and more.  That doesn't mean we're going steady, though!

Date: 2008/01/23 17:22:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, TP, a couple of further comments.  First, you wrote:

Do you really think taunts and comparisons to creationists will make my arguments any less valid?

No, your arguments couldn't possibly get any less valid than they are right now.

Second, I've decided to promote you from Creationist Moron to Creationist Moron First Class with a Dishonest Fig Leaf Cluster (stolen from Dembski).

Your original "point" of this thread was to discuss Dembski and Mike Gene, but when that turned into a cluster (literally) you then claimed that your point was to discuss another topic about which you know nothing, quantum mechanics.  You're dishonest.  And a moron.  However, as I pointed out earlier your arguments are not moronic because you are a moron.  That would be ad hominem.  The two events are independent.

So, tell me, Quantum Boy, how fast would you have to walk through a 3-foot wide doorway to diffract?  Please return in two years with experimental results.

Date: 2008/01/23 18:17:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You think that's bad?  Huh?

Well, there's nothing as bad as

Nazis and Football!

Date: 2008/01/23 19:21:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I vowed not to return but since I'm the only person on this thread with a PhD from a reputable university I will step in on this point.

Yes, TP, it was a test and you failed miserably.  You see, the Internet has a lot of stuff on it but it doesn't have all the stuff.  Us old geezers used paper and pencils in the last century and much has not been digitized and made available over the Web.

Henderson did a sabbatical at Cambridge in the 60's where he met a young physicist, Stephen Hawking.  Henderson was working on quantum fluctuations associated with interstellar gasses and it was Hawking who introduced Henderson to the mathematics that would lead to the characterization of black holes.

It turns out that Darling, also working at Cornell with Henderson, was finishing his PhD dissertation on mass balance of interstellar gasses, and, although his data was accurate he was concerned that it wasn't accurate enough.  Something else was going on and Henderson, via Hawking, provided a clue, and that was quantum oscillation.  

Quantum oscillation called for "tunneling" between energy potential wells in interstellar space.  Remember, at this time tunneling was a new concept which was later demonstrated and is the basis for things like solid-state lasers.

Penrose's concern was that there was not an energy source that could drive tunneling in interstellar space.  The distances between particles was great, it was nearly zero Kelvin and calculations could not deliver the heat, so to speak.  Enter Hawking and black holes.  Suddenly it all dropped out.  Small black holes, on the order of a solar mass or less, but more prevalent in interstellar space, especially where there were large dust accumulations, such as nebula, could not only provide the power for oscillations, but the mass balance calculations all but proved the concept.

Of course, identifying small black holes has been a problem, and that may always be the case, and that's Penrose's concern, however, the math solves the mass balance problem.

So, the search is on for small (some people call them micro) black holes and time will tell.

An interesting side note is that the new supercollider being built has as an objective to create a micro-micro black hole.  The sponsors of that project are none other than Henderson and Darling.

Pretty cool, eh?

Date: 2008/01/23 20:45:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Albatrossity2, you are one sick puppy cynical bastard.  Did I leave anything out?

But, you stumbled (God knows you didn't figure it out.) on an interesting development that we were pursuing with Rice University before I retired.

Oh, and before I go too far, I had this dream of a jayhawk carrying a cat-like critter in it's beak before dropping it in a cornfield from 50,000 feet.  Ever have that dream?

Anyway, it turns out that nanotechnology will be the key to our next generation of ultra-light, long-life batteries.  Imagine a laptop that can go for a month without a charge, but weighs less than 3 lbs?  The batteries exist but they cost $100,000 each at the research stage.  The key is to use carbon nanotubes to position dual lithium crystals using chelation, similar to EDTA binding metals, like copper.

In fact, the original design used EDTA and copper but we couldn't figure out how to stabilize the nanotube once the liquid was removed.  It just collapsed.  Paired lithium through ionic bonds proved to be more stable.  Not unlike salt, NaCl, actually.

Grown in solution the nanotubes form helixes that align when lithium is introduced and the supporting liquid evaporated.  The helixes align the paired lithium which crystalizes and is stable at room temperature.  The resulting di-lithium crystal structure provides 3.5 V at 12 milliamperes which isn't bad.  By sandwiching the nanotube lattices you can increase the current capacity at the same voltage.

Research is ongoing, but we think there might be a tunneling activity that supports stability of the structure.  Because the current drain is constant as we change temperatures, we think tunneling could account for that.  But, don't know for sure.  On paper we could power a car for a month using a di-lithium crystal nanotube battery the size of a shoebox.

Personally, I think the engineering is 5 years away from being practical.  But, there you have it.  Real life quantum mechanics and a practical application.

Date: 2008/01/23 21:59:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, for all you hard core gamers there's


Awwwww, and Wii bowling is so cool.

Date: 2008/01/23 23:38:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
2x7=Oh, God, 5, what?
2x8=uhuhuhuhargleuhuhuhuhUHUH U H U H U H U H U H ! ! !
2X9=who cares.  I'm hungry.

Date: 2008/01/24 00:32:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What is quite interesting about Keiths' graph is how similar it is to the lithium carbon microtube power cell that's being developed.

The lower curve with the positive knee is close to the power consumption curve of a mono-lithium microtube battery.

The central curve corresponds to the standard lithium hydride battery that you can buy at WalMart.

But the upper curve with the negative knee is exactly the kind of power curve we see with a di-lithium crystal.  Exactly the same response.

We think it's a quantum effect, but perhaps TP can shine some electrical engineering expertise on the problem

Date: 2008/01/25 18:41:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Do you honestly think I don't know how to do vector math if we assume our universe is Euclidean three dimensional space?

Considering that you think the universe is a giant beach ball that you can take a short-cut through, yes, you don't know vector math.  Furthermore, TP, you have no idea short of a Vanity Fair treatment of what is meant by space-time.

You, sir, are a clueless idiot.  Clueless because you don't have a clue, and an idiot because you persist in demonstrating your cluelessness.

Otherwise you wouldn't be at a BIOLOGY forum on a thread YOU started comparing Mike Gene (who?) and Dr. Dr. Dembski (the wacko dimwit from Waco) discussing your pathetic understanding of physics.

Why don't you go hang around your local WalMart and bug shoppers?

Date: 2008/01/27 11:21:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Date: 2008/01/28 23:08:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't primates eat a lot of insects, insect grubs, larvae, and other small critters, as well as bird eggs?

As a primate I'll vouch for this statement.

You've really missed something if you haven't had my insect, grub, larvae and other small critters omelette.  Heavenly, it is.

I think the evolutionary order was fire, omelette, salsa, religion.

Then came the tortilla and proof of religion.

Date: 2008/01/29 11:45:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, ERV, let us guess!  And award prizes to the closest answer.

Me first, me first!

Obviously it's Luskin!  Since he rattled his plastic cocktail sword about an itty bitty B&W photo on an obscure, personal homepage at Geocities, no less  (get it?  No Les.  sorry), I can only imagine Luskin's apoplexy at a full color portrait of him looking like a comatose gopher being attacked by wooly bear caterpillars displayed on a nationally recognized, top tier, science blog.

p.s.  that last bit of groveling should earn me some kind of prize.

Date: 2008/02/03 19:10:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sums up Casey perfectly:  Mayor of Loserville

Date: 2008/02/04 17:25:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The domain was registered in February, 2005.

So, it's been like that, or worse (nothing) for three years.

On second thought, nothing might be better, at least more accurate, than what they have now.

Date: 2008/02/04 17:29:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
More like pro bonehead

Date: 2008/02/05 19:40:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey got caught with his pants down, AGAIN, for copyright violation and procedure violation and had to both recant and beg forgiveness.

What a total loser.  He received a Masters in Prevarication, right?

Certainly earned THAT degree!

The sordid story is here.

Date: 2008/02/05 22:44:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I also know Genie Scott and will confirm that FtK is lying, again.

Making stuff up, FtK, when will you learn?  Are you really that stupid?

Scott's religion bashing record is less than mine.  How about my record, FtK? Where do I stand on your Scale of Piety?

As we have said many times on this thread, FtK, put up or shut up.

Date: 2008/02/06 17:11:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
TP's already jumped the shark!

Now he has to jump the rails, too?

He's going to need a Double Tard Latte at the very least.

Date: 2008/02/06 17:49:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Whether they planned it or not the DI needs to be hammered at every opportunity.

Expel?  Yes!  Kick their asses out.

I have no problem with this.  Luskin and the other DI minions need to be called out at every opportunity.

Quite simply, Luskin violated copyright by using the BPR3 logo inappropriately without following any of the guidelines.

Luskin did it intentionally and was caught.  He deserves any thrashing he gets.

Obviously, the heat was a little too much for our attack gerbil Luskin as he has pulled the logo from his original posting.  Luskin is dishonest.  How he lives with himself I have no idea.  Must be a small planet, his world.

Date: 2008/02/06 22:31:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't think Casey's exactly laughing, because he was forced to remove the icon from his posting.  The DI got a public whipping.  Again.

Casey wasn't expelled from discourse;  none of his comments were censored or removed from the BPR3 thread.  In fact, Casey was invited to the dialog.  He chose to slink off on his own accord.

By the same token, Casey, Behe, Dembski and the entire Rat's Nest is invited to participate at PT or PZ's blog or at ERV or any science blog.  Nothing's stopping them.

By the way, that reminds me, whatever happened to Paul Nelson?

Date: 2008/02/19 15:32:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Letter ASCII Binary
---k--- -107- 1101011
---h--- -104- 1101000

So that'd be two bits that changed...

Aw, come on!   He was only off by a little bit!

Date: 2008/02/25 23:50:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kevin, sorry to be the one to break the news to you, but consciousness is material.

Now, on to more interesting things!

I have seen the Expelled trailer, followed the blog, read Ben Stein's stuff on the film but I want to know one simple thing:

Sternberg.  From what was he expelled?

His editorship?  Nope, he resigned months before the fated issue of BSW was printed.

The Smithsonian?  Nope, he still has access to the collections, and he wasn't an employee of the Smithsonian.

The NIH?  Nope, he still has his same job;  no demotion, even.

Expelled?  From what?

Thanks in advance.  I'm sure you'll be able to answer this simple question.

Date: 2008/02/26 09:25:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kevin, the reason I asked the question is because I have followed the Sternberg saga for years.

I fully expected you to say "watch the film" because you can't answer the question.  Just like Behe and Dembski resort to "read my book" when asked a question not addressed in their books.

As you and I both know, Sternberg wasn't expelled or fired or demoted from anything.  He got caught with his ethical pants down. Sternberg's situation has nothing to do with his beliefs and everything to do with his ethics and honesty.

So, really, Expelled is like a "documentary" about crop circles.  Are they made by aliens?  Some people still think so!  You decide!

Hey, maybe Sternberg makes crop circles!  Could be a story for a new film.

Date: 2008/02/26 16:25:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill

I never got an answer to my question "from what was Sternberg expelled?"

"Watch the movie" is not an answer.  I love spoilers and I will see the movie, anyway.

Poor Sternberg.  One little slip and he's a piranha.  (inside joke)

Only it wasn't his first slip, now, was it?  Surly you did the research, Kevin, and you know that Sternberg had a history of shepherding dubious papers into publication.

Such as this one:


>>> Frank Ferrari 09/08/04 03:29PM >>>
Hi Hans,
Rafa gave me a heads up about the Nature - News. What is troubling is the implication in the article that
the manuscript was peer-reviewed. I doubt that it was, based on my experience with Sternberg and the
infamous Nizinski manuscript, which Sternberg also wanted to publish and also insisted had been
peer-reviewed. Prior to publication, I asked him who reviewed the Nizinski manuscript, but he would not
give me any names. When I insisted that the manuscript be reviewed internationally, the concensus of 4
international reviewers was rejection [sadly, Sternberg published it anyway].

Sternberg knew the Meyer paper would be reviewed as rubbish because it is rubbish.  Sternberg covered his tracks and snuck it through into publication anyway.  Only Sternberg of all the other editors saw the manuscript, there was no Abstract and only Sternberg reviewed the galley proofs.  

Total inside job?  Unethical?  Dishonest?  Crop circles?  You decide.

So, tell me Kevin old bean, from what was Sternberg expelled?  Was he "expelled" for his beliefs which he held and expressed for years with no consequence, or was he castigated for his actions of malfeasance and abuse of his editorial privilege?

Let me guess.  See the movie because it covers all this in great deal, in color, and in stereo.  Can't wait.

Date: 2008/02/26 17:08:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski, apparently, isn't featured in Expelled.

Why is that?

After all, Dembski was removed from his position by that atheist, Darwinist mafia boss Robert Sloan, president of Baylor.

Removed with pay for 5 years, I might add.

Hey, Kevin, do you know where I can get "Expelled" for 5 years with pay?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Date: 2008/02/26 18:38:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The bottom line, Kevin, is that nobody has been expelled and your entire movie is a lie.

Oh, what a shock!  Creationists produce a lie.

Sternberg expelled?  No, he is a cheat.
Dembski expelled?  No, poor sport.
Wells expelled?  No, employed.
Behe expelled?  No, full professor with tenure.
Crocker expelled?  No, contract expired, currently employed.
Gonzalez expelled?  No, contract expired.  (in May, 2008)
Luskin expelled?  No, employed lawyer for the DI.
Robert Marks expelled?  No, tenured professor at Baylor.

Hundreds and hundreds of working scientists expelled?  Name one.

So, Kevin, please explain the premise of Expelled?  Based on the trailer, website, blog and your comments I just can't figure it out.

Date: 2008/02/27 13:00:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kevin is not a scientist nor does he play one on TV.  However, he is a writer who contributed to the soon-to-be blockbuster, Expelled!

So, Kevin is in an excellent position to tell us specifically who was expelled from what.  Expelled! is about expelling, not panspermia.  Let's get back to the explanations of the expellations.

Start with Sternberg since we're all very familiar with that piece of history.

From what was Sternberg expelled and by whom?

After Sternberg, Kevin, please regale us with Behe's heart-rending story.


Date: 2008/02/27 18:18:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
If Kev won't answer a simple question like from what was Sternberg expelled and by whom, how can anyone expect him to engage in a discussion, even at a 6th grade level, on science?


Further insanity is to turn Ben Stein loose to do interviews.  Stein said, and I quote, "Where did thermodynamics come from?"

What?  WTF what?

Yes, I understand the words but sense not do they make.

No wonder they're keeping this docu-travesty under wraps.  It's going to need a health warning:  exposure to this kind of nonsense may cause burns and severe nausea.

Date: 2008/02/27 22:23:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Getting back to the theme of the movie, Expelled, for the life of me I just can't figure out who's been expelled for what by whom.

I've seen the trailers, I've read the blog, I've read the pre-reviews and I just can't figure it out.  I mean, all the people interviewed in the film have jobs and seem to be OK, so is Expelled some kind of big secret?

Too bad we don't have anyone who, like, was involved in writing the script or something to enlighten us.

Date: 2008/02/29 16:24:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ July 17 2007,17:47)
Quote (Paul Nelson @ July 17 2007,17:32)
(from Seattle)


I missed that description of P.K. Chien when reviewing the galleys, but will check with the author who drafted the section (it wasn't me).  "Marine biologist" or "biologist" would be a better term.

Sorry you won't be wagering, Steve.

Well, actually, "toxicologist" would be an even more accurate description. Of the 10 biologically-relevant papers attributed to him on Web of Science, the most recent one being 1995, one is on yeast, three are on non-marine worms, one is on human erythrocytes,  and 5 are on various marine or saltmarsh organisms. ALMOST ALL of them deal with heavy metal toxicity. His qualifications to comment on a fossil and its relevance to the bogus "artifact hypothesis" seem to me to be non-existent. Finally, his publication record would suggest that he might not even be up to speed in toxicology...

I'm sure that this will be changed in the next printing, but that section should read "toxicologist" rather than marine paleobiologist. Of course, that wouldn't be as impressive in the context of that paragraph.



If it's taken 7 months and Nelson still doesn't have the toxicologist/biologist story straight, having started with "marine paleobiologist" then getting an actual substantial change to the text is going to be harder than pulling hen's teeth!

Date: 2008/02/29 18:41:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Ben Stein has a point.

Where DID thermodynamics come from?

I think it came from the fiery bowels of Hell and rose up and belching a sulfurous breath, threw down a slide rule, and demanded, "Solve me!!  To four decimal places."

I cursed, "Thermodamnics ye be!"

But, I was saved in the end by Saint Hewlett who sent down HP-45's from heaven.  I solved and was absolved.  To NINE decimal places!

I was an athermodynamithist from that day forward.

Date: 2008/02/29 23:12:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Lookie, lookie!

Me and Paul signed on at the same frickin' time!

What are the odds of that?  Got to be something like ten to the hundredth or something.  

What do you think, Paul?  Isn't it dangerous for us to be signed on at the SAME TIME?

Think about it:  smart and anti-smart.

I provide evidence, you provide equivocation.
I provide questions, you provide quibbles.
I excuse myself for verbosity, you verbalize excuses.

Too bad you didn't have enough time in your dilettante schedule to chat, but you coy little devil, always talking about chatting but never quite getting around to it.  Busy schedule and all, Italy and intertubes, etc.

We understand, Paul.  We really do.

Date: 2008/03/01 19:34:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Doc Bill -- I'm sorry, I missed your question about an error in EE.  Do you mind posting it again?  Thanks.

How could I point out an error in a work of fiction, Paul?

Date: 2008/03/02 18:20:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
404 - area code of Atlanta.

Maybe they moved their lab.

Date: 2008/03/04 14:17:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What level is beyond "extremely stupid?"  Perhaps we should create a term to describe such a mental state:  Cordovian stupidity.

Sal squeaks:

When I posed questions to various geologists, and when they sensed they were a bit cornered, they responded with insults rather than sound physics. I knew then something was up.

A reasonable answer is that the material sediment was in a fluid mix, it stratified according to Archimedes principles, and then became something like cement in a curing process. Before the curing was complete, some sort of compression happened which caused the bends and folds. That ought to supersede the standard story that the folds and bends were facilitated merely by heat, pressure, and time.

And digs deeper:
I point that out to further the argument that folded rocks like the pyrite above were in a cement like state when they were bent and could not possibly be the product of a hot bending process over millions of years. Rock researchers have clearly been wrong in the past about the mechanisms that created certain rock formations.

Sal's knowledge of chemistry, geochemistry and structural geology is on par with his understanding of biology and physics, that is to say, buried deep in a bunker on the First Hole.

Sal simply makes stuff up like "cement like state", "curing process", and "some sort of compression."  And he wonders why the geologists resorted to "insults" which probably pointed out that Sal was both wrong and stupidly wrong.

I thought Sal was going to STFU during his "graduate" time?

Date: 2008/03/05 13:02:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yo, Pauly baby!  You should really submit EE for a Hugo Award.  You could be a contendah.  

Factual errors?  How about every word in your book?

Looky here, Pauly baby, I've got a copy of Phyla in which Valentine discusses the fossil record in chapter 5.

Now, what you say in your fictional account of science is that the fossil record is incomplete not because the fossils haven't been found, but because they don't exist, and, furthermore, you say the fossils don't exist because the animals who would have made them didn't exist, either.  (cue mystery music - dum dum DUMMMMMMMMMMB)

Do I read that right?  Not because of incomplete sampling.

You also say that many paleontologists agree with you which is simply false.  You know it's false, thus it is a deliberate lie.  

Yes, Mr. Obvious, the fossil record is incomplete.  So what?

On page 174 of Phyla Valentine writes:

The fossil record has now yielded a sequence of faunas stretching back over 40 million years before the advent of the trilobites that Darwin knew about, permitting us to infer some of the broad outlines of early metazoan history.  Despite this improved record, the early ancestors of Darwin's trilobites remain unknown.

Remain unknown.

Not "didn't exist."

It's very disturbing that you try to use Valentine to support creationism.  If that were the case then Valentine would be a co-author of EE, not a toxicologist/amateur rock hound.

Really, Pauly baby, I don't know why you dog around this discussion forum where teh smartz peoples hang out and try to ply this snake oil of yours.  You should spend your time writing a book on Thetan Biology or something like that.  At least you'd have an audience.

And if you get the hint that perhaps I don't have very much respect for you, sorry, my error, any respect for you, then you have at least learned something.

Date: 2008/03/07 21:57:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paul Nelson, no, I haven't read EE nor will I.

Nor do I read pornography nor Barbara Cartland romance novels.  I haven't read Behe's books nor Dembski's nor will I.  For that matter, I haven't read much of Dickens, although I might.

I did flip through Icons of Evolution and Darwin's Black Box at Barnes and Noble, but both books were too stupid to either buy or read.

The point it, my dishonest creationist hack Paul, is why should I read your dreck?  It's crap from stem to stern.  In fact, I'd rather read Barbara Cartland because she's at least honest in writing bodice ripping yarns, unlike you.

I've read enough about EE to know it's pure crap and I find your twisting of Valentine's research intellectual slander.  Furthermore, your continued participation in this forum is only an indication of your abject stupidity.

So, dishonest and stupid, Paul.  No wonder you can't hold a day job.

Date: 2008/03/11 17:20:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Since I'm not likely to read EE, I took the time to go to the EE website and read the blurb on turtles.

I quote from EE:


Turtles are another fascinating example of a group of animals that appears abruptly in the fossil record. The
order Chelonia, to which turtles and tortoises belong, appears suddenly in the late Triassic, around 200 million
years ago. The very first time turtles appear, their body plan is already fully developed, and they appear in the
fossil record without intermediates.

Now, my understanding of creationist jargon is that "sudden appearance" and "fully developed" mean they, turtles, were created or designed.

Is this correct, Paul, or not?  Is EE claiming that turtles were created?

Second, I have a question about the last sentence about intermediates.

To paraphrase, "turtles appear in the fossil record without intermediates."  Intermediates between what and what? Do turtles share common descent from earlier reptiles?

Tell me more about turtles, Paul.


Date: 2008/03/12 14:48:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'd be happy with an explanation of Yertle the Turtle who appeared suddenly in the literature in 1958 with no obvious intermediate transitional species.

As for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, I believe they represent a veritable renaissance in turtleology.

I want Nelson to explain the purpose of the turtle panel.  What's the point?

Also, for extra credit, Nelson, did you run that quote by Scott Gilbert?  Does Dr. Gilbert support your point, should we ever learn from you what is the point?


Date: 2008/03/12 22:54:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And, Yertle the Turtle, remains a mystery.

Will Yertle discover his ancestors?

Will Dr. Gilbert be forever tainted with "supporting" creationism?

Will Paul Nelson spend an abbreviated lifetime in the Quote Mine only to succumb to Black Liar disease?

Oh, the humanity!

Date: 2008/03/13 16:56:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thank you all, but I was eventually going to swing around and address the mangled Gilbert quote which is why I asked Nelson if he thought that Gilbert would approve that message.

The answer would be:
1.  No.
2.  Hell, no!

I pick Door number Two.

If the only page of EE I've read is fraught with so many errors, that does not bode well for the rest of the book.  Furthermore, I found exactly the same turtle argument over at AIG, only as Real Creationists they lay it out clearly that turtles were created on Day 5 or 6.  Thanks, AIG, for a much more precise answer than "around 200 million years ago."

EE reads more like a creationist blog than a textbook.  None of my textbooks offer quotations from scientists.  

"Mort Snerd of MIT confirmed that, indeed PV, does equal nRT."

But, it appears that EE stands on no data so I guess quotes are the only thing you've got.  

Paul, how do you guys do that levitation thing with EE?

My suggestion to Paul Nelson and Co. is to simply drop EE, a subject about which they have demonstrated they know nothing, and produce a work based on their strengths;  something they know a lot about.

I give you:  Explore Creationism

First, make it funny.  "A creationist and a penguin go into a bar..."

Second, parody, parody, parody.  Quote mine famous creationists to make it look like they support evolution.  A laff riot.

Third, myth busters!  Sternberg worked AT the Smithsonian not FOR the Smithsonian.  BUSTED!

Fourth, those wacky creationists.  No better than than Roy Comfort and the banana.  The best of Kent Hovind.  Blast from the past with Garner Ted Armstrong.

And, finally, with more facelifts than Joan Rivers, our favorite brand of creationism, Intelligent Design.  Take my mousetrap...please!

Seriously, Paul, I'm giving this idea to you for free.  You can thank me later.

Date: 2008/03/13 17:52:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How dare you suggest that any of my variants are mutated randomly!

They're all intelligently designed.

Date: 2008/03/15 00:17:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Ya gotta give Paul Nelson some credit for at least showing up around here from time to time.  He's good for a laugh and is probably the best natured creationist I've ever met.  Except for Heddle who has become so mellow that he damn near an Evolutionist himself.

Yes, Nelson has balls lacking in the other DI lackeys.  Where's Wells, Dembski and Behe?  Wells, well, who cares.  Behe is too busy getting beat up by science undergraduates and Dembski is too busy getting beat up by arts undergraduates.  Poor old Dembski has the distinction of getting fired from a job he never had thanks to creationist engineer Robert Marks' ham-fisted skulduggery at Baylor.  Baylor, why Baylor?  First dancing, now Dembski.

But, good old Paul seems to enjoy the banter even if he gets the shit kicked out of him time and time again.  As Al Swearengin might have said, a better cocksucker I never knew.

Date: 2008/03/20 09:12:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This might be the last in his current series, Number 17:

Number 17

He uses the phrase "antisocial intellectual vermin" to describe our favorite crew Dembski, Wells, Behe, etc.

Laughter is toxic to creationists as they desperately try to be taken seriously.  Just look at how they describe each other:

The most esteemed and highly published, respected and internationally known Dr. Dr. Dembski with more PhD's than Carter had liver pills.


Dembski was eviscerated by art student laughter at OU; he was obviously rattled.

Laughter is the analgesic and education is the long-term cure.

Date: 2008/03/20 21:46:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm doing one of those cartoon head shake things.

Let me get this straight.

PZ, family and a guest went to see Expelled.  PZ and guest are actually IN Expelled.

PZ is singled out and expelled from seeing Expelled, but guest and family are admitted.

The guest is Richard Effing Dawkins.

Richard Effing Dawkins!

Sort of the Alpha Male PZ.  He's let in while the lemur-like beta male PZ is constrained to munching popcorn in the lobby.

Makes no sense to me.  Except....

Creatoonists!  Yes, makes perfect sense!

Date: 2008/03/21 09:23:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I would have driven from Houston just to watch PZ get expelled and DAWKINS get in!

Oh, that's rich!  Kick out PZ and let in Dawkins!

I'm laughing, I'm crying.  And "they" wonder why we call them IDiots.

Too, too good.  This is legend.

Date: 2008/03/21 22:50:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In my experience textbooks sometimes come with a little slip of paper in them marked "errata," that is, errors discovered after publication.

For example, an errata might read "pg 223  x = 6 should read x = 3."  That sort of thing.

It occurred to me that if EE were to come with an errata, the errata could easily exceed the size of EE by a factor of two.

Therefore, my question to Paul would be, will EE be published as a three volume set to include EE and the two volumes of errata?

Date: 2008/03/21 22:55:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, on the Disco website Bruce Chapman writes, regarding the PZ Expelled Incident, that Dawkins didn't have a ticket to see the film.

However, NONE of the attendees had tickets since tickets were not provided nor required.

Bruce Chapman writes that Dawkins wasn't invited, but NONE of the attendees were invited, rather, they signed themselves up.

Since Chapman writes this with the explicit intention to deceive that makes him a liar.  Or is he just dishonest?

Or is it just those whacky creationists putting the best spin possible on a very bad story?

I suggest we get some high school students together, present both sides, and let them decide.

Good idea, Bruce?

Date: 2008/03/24 15:53:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
They could have pulled the screenings for any number of reasons.

One reason could be the Cell as a City animation which was clearly lifted from Harvard since the creationists haven't done a lick of work to put together a simulation like that in the first place.  Do they even imply that creation scientists figured out how these "molecular machines" operate?  Two minutes of fact checking would answer that question.

The other reason they may be pulling the screenings is that they can't control who is in the audience as tightly as they thought.  For crying out loud they let in Richard Freaking Dawkins and members of his Foundation.  Once people start asking sane and specific questions in the Q&A they are quickly reduced to insults and expelling.

As for killing the entire project, that is a real possibility.  This is going to be an easy film to discredit because so much of the "documentary" is in the public record.  Right, Kevin?

Ben Stein said in an interview that dozens and dozens and dozens of scientists have lost their jobs, their grants, etc.  Let's see, 6 dozen is at least 72 people.  I recall an interview with one of the producers who said that they interviewed "hundreds" of people who had been persecuted and expelled.  Where are all these people?  Why do we see the usual creationist suspects:  Sternberg, Crocker, Gonzalez, Behe, Dembski, Marks, etc?

No, the entire premise of the film is bogus.  It won't survive the slightest scrutiny.  How can they release Expelled to the public when it's the public who will be their most vocal critic?  

I'll give them credit for one thing.  No Intelligence Allowed.  They got that part right.

Date: 2008/03/25 01:12:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I watched Bronowski's original series when it was broadcast.  I have his book, the Ascent of Man, and the DVD collection.  Jacob Bronowski is a towering intellectual and a personal hero of mine.

Ben Stein is a buffoon and an idiot.

Ben Stein is an insult to Bronowski and to all those who lost their lives during WW2.

Ben Stein should be ashamed and humiliated about what he has done.

It's not funny, Ben Stein, you have dishonored your people and people you never knew.  Ben Stein, you have mocked the death of millions of innocent people for your own personal gain.  You are disgusting beyond words.

Ben Stein, you are a disgrace to your family.  You are an intellectual vandal, and a scientific slanderer.

Shame on you, Ben Stein, shame on you.

Date: 2008/03/26 16:32:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Call me stupid but I just do not understand this fascination with Nazis.

I mean, I think I went through a Nazi phase in the third grade, but it was short lived.

So, let me get this straight.  Darwinism leads to Nazi-ism.  OK, right.  But, only in Germany in the 1930's.  Nowhere else in the world, in no other country, at no other time in the past 150 years except in Germany in the 1930's.

Therefore it would appear that Expelled was produced by third graders, or is that being unfair to third graders?

Date: 2008/03/26 17:50:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Must be a mistake!

I voted for Nixon in '72.

After being a young Nazi in the third grade I became a young Republican in high school.  

Eventually I got laid and the rest is history.

Date: 2008/03/26 21:15:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Y'all are barking up the wrong tree because Kevin doesn't know squat.  He's just a screenwriter.  Given pap he tries to make it interesting pap.

Does he understand the science?  Clearly, no.

Does he understand the issues?  Clearly, no.

So why pester the poor dolt with a bunch of questions he's clueless to answer?

My first question, eons ago, is still unanswered.  From what was Sternberg expelled?  See the movie was the answer.

Screw that.  I don't need to see the movie because I already know the answer from the public record.  Sternberg was expelled from NOTHING.

Lose his job at the Smithsonian?  Nope, he didn't work for the Smithsonian, how could he lose a job he didn't hold?

Lost his job from the NIH?  Nope, he still works at the NIH?

Fired as editor of the Washington Bio Journal?  Nope, he ended his tenure as editor MONTHS before the infamous paper was published.

Demoted at the Smithsonian?  Again, how?  He didn't work for the Smithsonian.  He was a Research Associate at the Smithsonian sort of like a visitor to a library, if memory serves, but his sponsor DIED!  You need a sponsor to be an RA and his sponsor DIED.  Without a sponsor a researcher is classified a Research Contributor.  Sternberg wasn't demoted, his sponsor died and his title changed.

So, Kevin, please enlighten us all to the secret information about Sternberg that you know and the rest of the world doesn't.

Or, let me guess, hmmmmm, Sternberg wasn't expelled from anything.  That's the correct answer, Kevin, isn't it?

Date: 2008/03/31 00:47:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nor did "documentary" screenwriter Kevin enlighten us as to from what was R. Sternberg expelled.

Of course, we know from the public record that Sternberg was expelled from nothing, but I was hopeful that Kevin would have an "Ah Ha" moment and put two and two together.

Apparently, in addition to Kevin's ability to write he lacks basic math skills.

Date: 2008/04/01 19:21:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nelson?  Nelson?



Date: 2008/04/03 10:19:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kristine, Kristine, you're so bad!

Yes, it's ironic that "Expelled" describes what creationists do to themselves but no need to rub it in.

Let's see, do we know another favorite creationist who has never answered a straight answer in her entire Kansas farm wife life?

So, you ask "What's up with Stein and Ham?"

FtKevin says:  You'll have to ask Ben.  (Not likely.  The answer is "pandering.")

You ask "From what was Sternberg expelled?"

FtKevin says:  You'll have to see the film.  (Not explained in the film.  The answer is "nothing.")

You ask "What's the age of the earth?"

FtKevin says:  Read this article on polonium halos.  (Which explains nothing.  Answer:  4.54 Gy +/- 1%)

But, you see, Kristine, if they give a straight answer they risk getting Expelled by their own people, just like Ted Haggard.  Darwinists didn't disgrace Haggard and kick him out of his church, rather, he disgraced himself and his own church kicked him out.

It's fun to watch, though, because it's so predictable!

Date: 2008/04/07 14:07:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Somebody remind me.  What do Nazis have to do with "Expelled?"

Kevin?  Kevin?  Anybody?

Date: 2008/04/07 16:54:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
According to an interview with famed scientist and intellectual, R.C. Sproul,  Ben Stein discloses that our Kevin had nothing to do at all with the film "Expelled."

Nothing at all.

Ben claims that "Expelled" was put together by "very smart people," unlike himself (nice admission, there, Ben), yes, very smart people.

That category, VSP, would exclude our Kevin, who no can haz teh smartz.

Kevin claims to have written part of "Expelled," yet he has not demonstrated that he has the foggiest clue what the film is about.  Who was expelled? Kevin doesn't know.  What's with the Nazis?  Kevin doesn't know?  Were the Nazis expelled?  Kevin doesn't know.

But, I will give Kevin credit for at least having the cahonies to show up on this site and engage people who have teh smartz.  Where's Behe?  Where's Dembski?  Where's Wells?  Cowards all.

Yes, our Kevin is a regular Paul Nelson.  Cut from the same cloth, or Shroud of Turin, as the case may be.

Date: 2008/04/07 17:00:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, Happy Paul Nelson Day!

At least he shows up here from time to time, bless his Mendelvian-pea picking heart!

Pop quiz time.

Has Paul Nelson ever given a straight answer to a question?

Anybody?  Bueler?  Anybody?

I can't recall.  I don't think he has, even to a simple question like "what's the age of the Earth?"

On Paul Nelson Day we should document the Best of Paul Nelson.  Anybody experience more than just BS with PN?

Date: 2008/04/07 23:24:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Once again our Kevin expounds on that about which he knows nothing: paleontology!

Not empirical, eh?  So, I guess paleontologists don't measure bone lengths and widths.  Yeah, someone else must do that.  I guess paleontologists don't make any measurements at all.  Nope, someone else must do that like chemists and physicists.  I guess paleontologists spend their time walking around the Badlands with their picks and shovels, contemplating their worldview.

Yeah, Kevin, that's what paleontologists do.

Date: 2008/04/08 16:16:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Henry J @ April 08 2008,10:28)
Quote (Doc Bill @ April 07 2008,22:24)
Once again our Kevin expounds on that about which he knows nothing: paleontology!

Not empirical, eh?  So, I guess paleontologists don't measure bone lengths and widths.  Yeah, someone else must do that.  I guess paleontologists don't make any measurements at all.  Nope, someone else must do that like chemists and physicists.  I guess paleontologists spend their time walking around the Badlands with their picks and shovels, contemplating their worldview.

Yeah, Kevin, that's what paleontologists do.

And they make no bones about it, too! :p

So I set up the line and Henry got the laugh.

It's not fair!  I am feeling so persecuted.  Downright EXPELLED!

Date: 2008/04/09 16:48:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, what did dheddle to with the Real Heddle?

You're cracking me up and it's MY job to crack me up!  Or maybe it's just that the creationists have gone so far to the edge they make DH look positively Che.

Welcome to the revolution, amigo!

Date: 2008/04/09 18:11:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can't wait to her what kevin11 has to say about Michael Shermer's Scientific American article, Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed--Ben Stein Launches a Science-free Attack on Darwin

Furthermore, the opening scene is all fake.  Fake students.  Extras.

Hey, Kevin, did you write that? Enter fake students, stage left.

Sort of like the rest of the film, right Kevin?

Kevin?  Anybody?

By the way, Kev, you never did answer my question.  From what was Sternberg expelled?  It's not explained in the film, although you lied and said it was.  Perhaps you could direct us to the real person who wrote the screenplay and we could ask that person.

Date: 2008/04/09 20:14:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
ERV, Mistress of the Universe.

Give me a jet pack, oh, Ruler, and I will do your bidding.

(The jet pack in Houston traffic would be way cool.)

Date: 2008/04/09 20:22:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
All is lost.

Apparently, Ben Stein has found out about the cease and desist order and has moved his bunker.

All is revealed HERE.

Date: 2008/04/09 23:21:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Bill" is your very own Doc Bill, joke writer for dheddle.

(Who doesn't pay very much, I might add.)

Date: 2008/04/09 23:55:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Two things.

First, I think Expelled was held back pending the Gonzalez decision.  They couldn't very well portray him as a martyr if the Regents reversed the tenure decision.  That pushed the release date past Feb 8.  Now that Gonzalez is a full-fledged martyr and ex-astronomer they are good to go.

Second, obviously they felt they had a problem stealing the Harvard video, especially after Dembski stepped into dung in Oklahoma.  It took time to put yellow pants on Mickey Mouse and rename him Rickey Mouse, but there you have it.  Personally, I would have put in some John Wayne clips instead of the "cell as a  city." Hell Fighters would have been good.

You might say, "That makes no sense at all!"  And I would reply, "Your point?"

Date: 2008/04/13 10:33:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Does this mean I can create the Doc Bill Research Foundation, declare it to be not-for-profit and solicit money to enable me to "think" all day.  Great Thoughts, mind you, although I think best in a new BMW.

Somehow, there has to be more to it; some regulation.

Who's our non-profit expert?

Date: 2008/04/14 17:20:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Given the latest rantings on EvoNews are Bruce Chapman and Robert Crother talking about the same Expelled!?

Not about Nazis?  All about teh Expelled!?

Oh, could teh Scheiss be hitting der Fan?

The DI is all about Teh Sci3nc3 and Excremented! is all about Teh Gott und teh Nazis.

So, why NOW is the DI trying to backpedal on Expelled!?  Could it be that Oh Noes, Plan B, she no workz?

Plan B my Aunt Petunia.  Definitely Plan 9.

Date: 2008/04/15 15:36:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thunderf00t rips Ben Stein a new one in this YouTube video:

Why do People Laugh at Creationists Part 22

Date: 2008/04/15 20:23:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Two words of the week!


Mandelbrottedly stupid.

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.  I'll use them often.

How about a Mandelbrottedly stupid manufactroversy?  Describes Expelled to a t.

Date: 2008/04/17 09:03:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paul!  How's work on the Errata coming along?  Started Volume 3 yet?

Date: 2008/04/18 17:39:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Based on the picture at the "premiere" showing, who is Robert Marks and what is he doing hanging around with this motley crew?

I've read some idiotic comments made by Marks in the press, but aside from trying to pass Baylor cafeteria vouchers to his pal Dr. Dr. D*mbski, Marks is obviously associating himself with this Nazi propaganda film.

Maybe it feels good to hang around with losers.  I dunno.

Date: 2008/04/21 18:34:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
However, let us not forget that Ben Stein did not write this movie, Kevin Miller did.

Ben is just the face, albeit one we'd all like to forget.

The architect of this bit of pathologic prevarication is our Kevin who should change his business card to read "documentary" writer.

I'm not letting Ben off the hook, though, he's smart enough to understand what he was promoting which makes him all the more a disgusting figure.

It's clear now (not that it wasn't before!) that Expelled is simply a series of lies strung together, lie after lie after lie, augmented by stolen intellectual property.  Expelled is now expelled.

I'm glad this particular creationist wad is finally shot and we can get on to more pressing discussions such as the trumped-up "academic freedom" bills which seems to be the mode du jour.

Date: 2008/04/21 19:10:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Good for Gonzalez. From now on he can do no research, have no students who finish their PhD's, and bring in no grant money, and no one will object.

In which case he seems to be the ideal candidate for the job having perfected his technique over the past seven years at ISU.

Date: 2008/04/21 20:03:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I know you like to harass people associated with ID but I suggest leaving him alone and taking up another hobby.

No, we stand up and oppose liars and charlatans who work to damage science education in this nation.  It is Gonzalez and the Discovery Institute who created this stink.  Every other astronomer who was denied tenure has gotten on with their work and careers without playing the religious persecution card in public.

Date: 2008/04/21 20:30:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Take the Red Pill, BobOB.

Gonzalez did nothing, all right, and got treated fairly and squarely.

Date: 2008/04/22 12:31:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thunderf00t has Why People Laugh at Creationists No. 23 and it's dedicated to our favorite idiot spokesman:

Ben Stein!

How many times have we heard Stein make this idiotic statement:

"Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics."

Uh, no, it doesn't, and that's relevant why?

Date: 2008/04/22 16:30:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Paul Nelson @ April 22 2008,11:25)
Hi, Alb.

Question for JAM, if he's still reading this thread -- does he have (know) any data on size variation in wild canid populations?

Wazza matter, Paul, don't have Google out there in Creationville?

How's the Errata coming along?  Started Volume 4 yet?

Date: 2008/04/22 17:00:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As reported by the Iowa State Daily, GG said

Gonzalez said the movie shows a real climate of fear about this topic in universities.

"At one university where I sent an application, an assistant professor attended the meeting where faculty were going over applicants," he said. "He told me that someone said I was 'that ID guy' and that they didn't even look at my application. This person also told me he was a closet ID supporter and he didn't dare speak in my defense."

Personally, I don't believe this at all. Anonymous guy talking about "someone."  Typical creationist, making stuff up.  Good for GG working at a bible college where faith trumps integrity.  He'll do well there.

Date: 2008/04/24 07:46:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Obviously, the producers are using the Imagine Ploy to garner publicity.

I can prove it!

Google News reports about 60 articles on Expelled the Movie.

Google News reports about 280 articles on Yoko Sues Expelled.

The Expelled producers are vewy, vewy cwafty wabbit hunters!  Shhhhh!

Date: 2008/04/26 21:57:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I hope this is not a trend (!) but I agree with BobOB on this one.

Yeah, I think Dembski has potential and is a bright, creative guy, but ID snuffed the life out of him.  And the others.

Gonzalez is a good example.  Once he got involved with ID his scientific contributions flatlined.  Same for Behe, and the rest.

I'll be interested in a train wreck sort of way to watch Robert Marks' career terminate as a creationist crank.  I think he's well on his way.

ID is like an addiction.  The more you do it, the more you are compelled to do it and it leads nowhere.

Back to Dembski, if you chart his career since college it's been like a Slinky on stairs and we all know what happens when the Slinky gets past  the last step;  potential energy is zero.

Date: 2008/04/27 00:38:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I used to think creationists were lazy, you know, too lazy to do research on their own.  All they do is criticize the work done by industrious scientists.

However, having seen bits and pieces of Evolution Expelled, I have realized the error of my ways.

Actually, it takes more creativity and more energy to Quote Mine than it takes to simply present and interpret data.

How could I have not seen that before?

So, really, if Paul Nelson is truly interested in strengthening EE with our help then he could just give us a list of quotes, as quote mined by him, and we will critique those.  I mean, the last thing Nelson wants is for EE to be panned by reviewers and I think we can help him out in that arena.

Plus, Paul, it would reduce your Errata volumes from four to maybe two.

Date: 2008/04/27 16:21:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Haeckel, Haeckel!  It's always about friggin' Haeckel!

What about his twin brother Jaeckel?

Date: 2008/04/30 08:29:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The smartest thing Ben Stein has done is to only be interviewed by very, very ignorant people.  With them Stein comes off well.

I'd like to see Stein interviewed by Thunderf00t, or anyone who could call bullshit on Stein's every point.

"Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics."  We could start there.

What a moron.

Date: 2008/05/03 09:33:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 03 2008,03:53)
William, simple question. Was Steinberg fired or not?

Oh!  OH!  Ask me!  Ask me!

Hint for WW:  the answer is in the appendix of the Government investigative report.

Date: 2008/05/03 16:08:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Was Sternberg fired?

Just answer the simple question, FtK, I mean, William Wallace.

Come on, even Kevin Miller answered this one!

Date: 2008/05/03 22:50:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Next thing you know, it'll lead to dancing.

Only to dancing around the issues.

Date: 2008/05/03 23:13:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
They were quick off the mark.

Hit number 2 in theaters soon!

I give you Expelled II - No Intelligence.

Date: 2008/05/05 22:27:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Considering "Expelled" is not about making money, nor about returning on investment, none of this really matters.

Clearly, the conservative christian creationists never expected to get rich off of "Expelled" because those who bankrolled the film are rich already.  It was a donation.

Unfortunately, "Expelled" is such a nasty little film that the entire episode backfired on the CCC's spectacularly.  Ben Stein has been "exposed" for the shallow, uninformed, scientifically illiterate schlump he is ("Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics!  Darwinism doesn't explain gravity!") whose public pronouncements in interviews will have Stein go down as possibly the stupidest person to breathe without mechanical assistance.

Bueller, Bueller is NOTHING compared to Darwinism doesn't explain gravity!  Really, is anyone on record as having said something this abjectly stupid?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Obviously, trying to link "Darwinism" to the Nazis failed, and, by the way, what is the relevance of that today?  Oh, yeah, that right wing conservative christian creationists are Nazis.  Thanks for reminding me!

No, the shot to be heard around the world is simply another petard by which Ben Stein (Thank You Very Much) has linked "intelligent design" directly to religion.  Really, Ben, we are truly grateful for this.

If Kitzmiller sunk "intelligent design" then Expelled and Ben Stein dragged it to the sea floor and piled it under tons of anchors.

Date: 2008/05/06 19:07:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Bad to the Bone on iTunes for 99 cents.

Imagine:  99 cents.

So, you think Expelled could have purchased a copy of Imagine from iTunes for 99 cents and saved themselves a lawsuit?

I'm kidding, of course, but you could put together a soundtrack for Expelled for about 5 bucks.  Go iTunes!

Date: 2008/05/06 21:34:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

I still have my trusty HP45 purchased in 1973 with hard earned dollars American.  It still works.

All my calculators are RPN.  Is there another kind?

Date: 2008/05/06 23:06:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, WW, you're back!  We missed you.  (not)

So, tell us, we're all a-twitter, did Sternberg lose his job at either the NIH or Smithsonian?

Was Carolyn Crocker fired from George Mason?

How about Dembski?  Fired from a job?  Ever?

And, once you answer those simple questions the answers to which are easily found on the Internet, I'd like your opinion on the ethics and morality of implying otherwise in the film Expelled.

Please bring a Blue Book and a number 2 pencil.

Date: 2008/05/07 00:07:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
p.s.  WW, baby, I don't grade on a curve.

(That's what she said.)

Date: 2008/05/07 00:58:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Date: 2008/05/07 01:40:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yo, WW, I'm guessing you're going for the 2008 FtK Dishonesty Award.

Well on your way, I'd say.

So, about Sternberg, the question remains, was he fired?

Date: 2008/05/07 23:55:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, WW, but as President-for-Life of the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma, I must insist that you answer questions already on the table before asking new questions or making new statements.

Therefore, you are hereby retained and co-joined from making further utterments on any subject until said above interrogatives have been de-interrogatized.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Date: 2008/05/12 20:21:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
After they jump Hitler's shark can we expect a musical?

"Springtime for Intelligent Design"

I'd back that production.

Date: 2008/05/15 09:00:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Recent Advances"


I remember in grad school when it was seminar time and you didn't have anything to report you could always resort to a review topic:  Recent Advances, New Horizons, Emerging Technology, and so on.

Actually, I'm looking forward to Paul's treatment on this subject:  "Why the Supreme Court Decision Against Intelligent Design is Wrong."  

Selling advance tickets for this one, Paul?

Date: 2008/05/20 17:30:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Paul visits AtBC every morning.  I often see him logged in between 7 and 9 am CST.

I suspect he's looking for his ethics which he lost somewhere.

Date: 2008/05/20 17:48:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Re:  Expelled and John Lennon

Good argument, except that Expelled wasn't focused on criticizing Lennon's music.  Clearly, the use of "Imagine" in Expelled was for artistic effect, that is, they used the music without approval or paying royalties.

If Expelled had been about "music and religion" then they might have a case, but, alas, this is not the case.  I'm not a lawyer and I don't even play one on TV, but if I had to guess I'd IMAGINE that the Judge is looking at the Expelled lawyer thinking, "Fucktard."

What do I know.

Date: 2008/05/21 08:57:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I thought the bullshit started with the title.

Date: 2008/05/26 09:26:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
63 guests, 6 Public Members and 2 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Doc Bill >BopDiddy >okboy >Paul Nelson >olegt >oldmanintheskydidntdoit

9:20 CST

Right on schedule.

Hey, Paul, how are the errata volumes coming along?

Date: 2008/05/27 18:36:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
DT has always been Dembski's poodle.

All poodles need to be shaved from time to time.

Date: 2008/05/27 21:27:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Exactly the image I wished to send!

Except, that Dembski is standing there with a Brazilian wax job holding a hot pair of clippers.

Dembski is drolling, "I don't need teh pathetic level of detail."

Meanwhile, Behe is standing in the background fingering his thong.  "Mmmmmm, pathetic..."

Date: 2008/05/30 20:41:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Back to Dover, what was the bulkhead?

Who stood fast and said, "No!"

Who said that teaching ID violated the ethics code they had agreed to?

The School Board?  No.

The Administrators?  No.

The Science Teachers?  Yes!

At Dover, ID was forced on the students because the Science Teachers ALL refused to teach it pointing to their ethical obligation to teach only what was true.

The DI conveniently avoids visiting this point.

Teachers are and always are on the front line.  Support your teachers.

Date: 2008/05/31 23:16:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, what's disgusting about it, WW?

Do you know anything about horse or cattle breeding?

I didn't think so.

Dumb as always, WW.

Date: 2008/06/02 00:00:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Can't have people figuring out that I'm not the monster Lou would like to believe I am.

Oh, you're a monster, all right.

The FtK's of the world are my worst nightmare.  Self-righteous willful ignoramuses.

FtK is the Kansas School Board.

FtK is Dover.

FtK is Academic Freedom Bills.

FtK is irresponsible and unaccountable.

The taxpayers and society pick up the tab for FtK's dilettante "worldview".  People die from ignorance while the monsters of ignorance laugh.

Yes, FtK, you are a monster.  A monster of ignorance.

Date: 2008/06/05 21:20:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill

God doesn't make airplanes fly, aerospace engineers do.

My daughter has an aerospace degree from KU and works for Boeing.

My daughter took 5 years of math including all the calculus courses, differential equations and even a seminar course on number theory.  She also took three years of physics.

My daughter worked hard for her degree and is no genius.  Furthermore, the aerospace department doesn't discuss Charles Darwin to the best of my knowledge and I don't believe that "evolution of flight" was a course she took.

KU is a fine institution of higher learning and all of my daughter's classmates received job offers.

FtK, you are offensive in your attitude toward a university about which you know nothing.  Aerospace is a tough course that takes both smarts and hard work to master, and, hopefully, those are two traits that have skipped a generation in your family.

Touchy?  Yes.  Don't mess with Jayhawk dads.

Rockchalk, Jayhawk, KU!

Date: 2008/06/06 00:24:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Boeing in Wichita might be "close" but they get 1,000 applicants for less than 10 jobs.

Boeing hires kids who are smart in science, math and engineering.

Boeing doesn't hire kids who are "close" or who can pray real good.  I'd suggest you start encouraging science (Darwin) and engineering (Watt) if you're thinking Boeing.

Date: 2008/06/07 10:22:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We're going about it all wrong.  I saw this on TV and it works every time.

Whenever Spanky and Our Gang got into a jam they would "have a show."

"I know," said Spanky, "let's have a show!"  And all their problems got solved.

Never, not once, did Spanky solve a problem by asking Darla, "Hey, Darla, what's the age of the earth?"

Date: 2008/06/09 17:21:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I believe it exists, and I find common descent lacking in empirical evidence.

You've written this before, FtK, and I find it Oh So Funny because you don't know the difference between your ass and your elbow when it comes to empirical evidence.

FtK, you wouldn't know empirical evidence if it bit you on your ass or your elbow.

Personally, I get a Great Charge out of uneducated creationists, like you, FtK, who make a big deal about empirical evidence with your vast 4th grade education.

Perhaps you could describe to us how your comparative vertebrate anatomy professor in college failed to reveal Empirical Evidence to you. Oh, didn't take CompVert?  Pity.  You might have avoided this embarrassing thread otherwise.

Tell you what, FtK, why don't you regale us with tales of Walt Brown's Water Lens geology, or perhaps Walt didn't provide enough "empirical" evidence for you.

Date: 2008/06/09 22:00:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, but you see FtK and the FtK's are on the Texas School Board and that's a real problem.

FtK may be a dumb "Anglo-Saxon emphatic expletive" but she/he/it still has a vote.

Right, FtK?  Science is a vote, eh babe?

Date: 2008/06/10 08:28:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nicely put, Louis!

"Fractal wrongness," I will steal that phrase and use it often.

FtK is only a single member of the creationist species all of whom share the traits you describe.

Has anybody ever met a mutant creationist, one that is honest?

Date: 2008/06/10 18:10:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I would agree with you, Louis, regarding Kurt Wise as the Lone Honest Creationist.

I can summarize Kurt in two words:  evidence shmevidence

(Admittedly, one real word and one made up word.)

Date: 2008/06/12 17:38:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What's there to judge, FtK?

Walt's conjecture doesn't stand up to the most simple of calculations.  Walt has been proven wrong.  Game over.

And, besides, FtK, how could you possibly even follow those conversations since you are not a scientist (your words) and have no training.

To you this must sound like "blah, blah, blah, blah, Ginger, blah, blah" to quote the great Gary Larson.

Date: 2008/06/13 10:58:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, vintage FtK.  I detect the oncoming of a flouncing.

So, here on my day off I went out to Walt's site and decided to do a little water prospecting.

Here's what Uncle Walt writes:

On the preflood crust were seas, both deep and shallow, and mountains, generally smaller than those of today, but some perhaps 5,000 feet high.

He also says that half the water currently in the oceans was underground, 10 miles deep, etc.

OK, FtK, here's something for you to note.  Walt has no Empirical Evidence for any of this.

No.  Empirical.  Evidence.

Remember that?  You were soooo keeeeen on Empirical Evidence a few pages ago.

But, I'm feeling generous so I'll give Walt his assumptions and we'll go from there.

Thus, from Google we have 328 million cubic miles of water in today's oceans.

Thus, Walt had half of that underground or 164 million cubic miles of water to work with for his flood.

According to Walt mountains were 5000 feet or about 1 mile in height.  So, the amount of water needed to cover the earth to a depth of 1 mile can be calculated using geometry.

Again, from Google the radius of the earth is 3963 miles.

That means that 197 million cubic miles of water would be needed for Walt's Flood.

Unfortunately, as you can see, empirically, Walt is 33 million cubic miles short.  Furthermore, by his Own Theory he would be even SHORTER because he claims that some of that water went into space, formed comets, etc.

Admit it, FtK, by this simple calculation and YOUR OWN demand for Empirical Evidence Walt is wrong.

Date: 2008/06/13 14:11:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I said that a creationist and an evolutionist could work on the same project and come up with comparable outcomes.


Just now I used Walt Brown's very own assumptions and demonstrated that he's short 33 MILLION CUBIC MILES of water.  Therefore, Walt's theory is sunk.

Furthermore, if Walt used my assumptions, that is, the real Earth rather than his made-up, cartoon version, in which mountains are nearly 6 miles in height and there is no subterranean ocean, and where the laws of physics and geology actually apply, Walt's theory is sunk, dead and buried.

So, FtK, do you think the conclusions are comparable?

Where's Walt's water, FtK?  Do you now agree that Walt's theory is hopeless?  What further proof would you require?

Date: 2008/06/13 14:36:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, dismissed by the Queen.

Alas, poor me!

It's not the first time.  No creationist has ever stood up to the Water Problem.  The final pre-flounce statement is usually "go read my book again" or "take it up with Walt, it's his problem," or "the subject has changed."

Looks like Door Number 3 this time!

And, rats, we never got to "discuss" Walt's assertion that the mid-Atlantic rose EIGHT MILES above current sea level.  Do you think that's what the Byrds were singing about?

FtK and For the Byrds.  What a pair!

Common descent, eh?

Tell us, FtK, which creationist has studied the fossil record and come to a comparable conclusion to an evolutionist?  I'd like to hear about this!

Date: 2008/06/13 14:51:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's a mute point...

You mean it can't speak for itself?

Date: 2008/06/13 15:03:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
A mute piranha.

If only!

Date: 2008/06/13 15:21:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ftk @ June 13 2008,14:47)
Yeah, it's pretty easy to make claims when you're not addressing an actual creation scientist...makes your job a whole lot easier. Any time you grow the balls to actually address the man you loath, I'll be more than willing to participate in that conversation.    

I don't loath anybody, even you, FtK.

Walt Brown is simply, demonstrably wrong.  His theory is in his own writing.  His assumptions are in black and white.  He's short 33 million cubic miles of water and you simply can't get around that point, a geometric calculation.

I didn't make a claim.  I calculated the amount of water it would take to cover the Earth to a depth of 5000 feet, compared that to what Walt said and he came up way short.

Walt claimed that the oceans had half the water.  Walt claimed that there was an underground ocean.  Walt claimed that mountains were only 5000 feet tall.

To paraphrase your own words, FtK, yeah, it's pretty easy to make claims when you're not addressing actual physical reality.

Date: 2008/06/13 15:59:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Too late.

I already shot the shit, namely Walt's theory, and it's dead.


A eulogy is in order.

Here lies Walt Brown's Hydroplate theory.  Cut down in the prime of life with geometry.  Euclid would be proud.  Walt should have double-checked his four-thirds Pi R cubed when he conveniently (for him) resized and rearranged the Earth to fit his theory.  Alas, poor Hydroplate, we knew him well, a theory of infinite jest, but a finite problem with lack of water.

And, gentle folks, let us not forget Hydroplate's widow, FtK, faithful companion of many years, unwavering in her belief that science is debate, facts are opinions and reality is perception.  Loyal FtK who popularized the notions that the Carnot Cycle was a French scooter, Boyle's Law cooked her eggs at Easter and Tiktaalik was an Eskimo version of Naughts and Crosses.

We now commit Hydroplate to the Fountains of the Deep.


Date: 2008/06/13 16:53:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Jeannot, FtK said facts were mute so stifle yourself!

(We speak science but FtK only understands dingbat.)

Besides, the data on your graph is damning to our case! Right there, I can see it, is the 46,000 mile microcrack described by Walt.

In fact, your graph illustrates the "crack potential" also known as the CrackPot.  Walt Brown, an expert in CrackPot, predicted such an event.

You may have destroyed all of Geology.  I hope you're proud of yourself!

Date: 2008/06/13 17:37:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mmmmmmmmmm...Orion slave women.......

Date: 2008/06/14 20:16:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
From what I can tell, Walt didn't date much.

Date: 2008/06/14 22:12:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK, did you know that Google has a calculator?  Yep, it's the one I used because I couldn't find my HP-10.

Just for grins, here's a nice weekend science project for you that you can do right on your computer with the Google calculator.

Calculate the volume of water it would take to cover the Earth to a depth to submerge Mount Ararat (15,000 ft) and Mount Everest (30,000 ft).  

For simplicity, call Ararat 3 miles high and Everest 6 miles high.

In fact, it's a cool calculation to assume the Earth is a smooth sphere and calculate the amount of water required to submerge it to a depth of 30 feet!

For extra credit, you could set up a spreadsheet that would let you specify a depth and calculate the volume of water in cubic miles.

The answers will astound you.

When you're done I'd like for you to speculate (come on!  It's a holiday weekend!) on where the water could have come from and more importantly where it went.

Ohhhh, that's the tricky part. Given a water planet that is totally submerged by water, where did it go? The water.

Date: 2008/06/15 13:27:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, hey, hey!  Don't give me that "evaporated" story!  I saw that movie with Kevin Cosner.

But, in other news, the KCFS archived thread from 2005 is like reading, well, the past week!  Three years and nothing has changed.  It's the Fountain of Youth.

Hey, maybe that's where Walt's water comes from.  Mystery solved.

As FtK wrote back in 2005:

Originally posted by forthekids:
I can't help but laugh at this comment. Go back and check Brown's credentials. Don't even think for a second that he doesn't understand this stuff or that his calculations are incorrect.

Let's see, FtK, 33 million cubic miles of water would indicate that either Walt doesn't understand high school geometry, or that his calculations are incorrect.  Take your pick.

Date: 2008/06/16 08:07:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
8 a.m.

Right on time.  Paul should be running the trains!

53 guests, 10 Public Members and 0 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Doc Bill >utidjian >EyeNoU >Paul Nelson >Maya >celdd >JonF >DiEb >k.e.. >Richard Simons

Date: 2008/06/16 08:31:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The FtK's of the world are simply cheerleaders who attend Creationist High School.

"Go team!  Fight! Rah!" is all FtK can do.  She knows nothing about the game or the players.  Her only interest is that her team wins.

"Go Sal!  Fight Mikey!  Win Billy!  Walt, Walt he's our man.  If Walt can't do it nobody can!"

Simple as that.  She doesn't have to understand the rules, or tactics, strengths and weaknesses of each team;  none of that.

She just cheers for her side and watches the scoreboard.

Date: 2008/06/16 17:12:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
When I was a wee lad, brand spanking new to the forums at KCFS, I was seduced by the fetching FtK who had posed a question I could answer.

I know that, I said!

And I held forth and offered FtK a chapter and verse from my favorite undergraduate comparative vertebrate anatomy book.  FtK thanked me profusely and told me she had taken that course, but used a different book.

I asked FtK if she wanted a copy and she said, no.  I asked, are you sure?  And she said, no, on my honor.

So, she offered her honor, and I honored her offer.

Then for weeks afterwards is was honor, offer, honor, offer...

Finally, I realized that I was being used and she had no intention of accepting the answer to her question or learning the reasons why.  After that I switched from mentor to mocker.

And, I haven't had a drink since.

Date: 2008/06/16 17:23:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So that's where Dembski got his fart noises.

I had always wondered.

Date: 2008/06/16 20:34:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Naw, Paul would promise you a train that would be on time, but the train would be late because

"Paul is a lying bastard."

Then, Paul would promise you that you could get dinner on the train, but there would be on dinner because

"Paul is a lying bastard."

Then Paul would tell you that your luggage would arrive with you but it wouldn't because

"Paul is a lying bastard."

Quote mining, the profession of a Lying Bastard.

Date: 2008/06/17 18:56:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Truth or Dare.

Truth:  I was born in Louisiana.

Dare:  I got out.

I think the Legislation is Fantastic.

Let's see.  What is Louisiana's record all the way up to the Supreme Court.

Louisiana:  0   Supreme Court:  everything else

What better State for the Seattle DI to strut their stuff than Louisiana?  With such a sterling track record how could they (the DI) lose?

Bring it on, Louisiana! Make me proud to be a Son of the Bayou!

Date: 2008/06/17 22:17:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, Geeze Louise, this is just too ripe!

On Amazon, Dembski's book is described as a "turd sandwich."

But, what's even BETTER is that Amazon has this pop up that says, and I quote,

"Other books that should be considered a turd sandwich:"  Exploring Evolution by M. Behe!

Oh, I wet myself!  Seriously, I need a change of underwear.

Yea, Amazon!

Date: 2008/06/18 17:16:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Denyse is breathtaking inanity Incarnate!

Oh, the humanity!  Stop this thread, you're killing me!

Date: 2008/06/20 11:02:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Lenski has essentially refused my request that he make his underlying data available for public scrutiny, despite his use of public funding. Given the remarkably short time between submission of his PNAS manuscript and its acceptance (only 14 days), I doubt his paper even had meaningful peer review.
It's unscientific for others to repeat as true an unverified claim based on concealed data. I wonder if PNAS violated its own stated policies by publishing Lenski's paper, and I'm going to email its Editor-in-Chief to request an explanation.--Aschlafly 11:19, 20 June 2008 (EDT)

The latest on the Conservapedia Talk page (link above).

Schlafly puts his fingers in his ears and chants "Liar!  Liar!  Liar!" essentially accusing Lenski of fraud and conspiracy.

It's unscientific for others to repeat as true an unverified claim based on concealed data?  That's the definition of Creationism!  Thanks for clearing that up for us, Andy!  You're right, it is unscientific.

Date: 2008/06/20 16:30:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, Philmont!  2003 and 2005 went there I did.  Learned the meaning of the word "up."

This summer I'm going to learn how to edit with Final Cut Express.  Hollywood, here I come.

Date: 2008/06/21 22:42:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, Kevin, but you have demonstrated yourself by your actions and deeds to be both a liar and a fraud.

So, who gives a rat's ass about what policy you have on your blog?  Like, it matters?

Maybe you and Sternberg should go hang out in his office at the Smithsonian.  I think they have free Wi-Fi there.


Date: 2008/06/22 10:35:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 22 2008,00:41)
As for you, Doc Bill, sounds like I touched a nerve. Ouch!

Yeah, I'm not too keen on cockroaches either, Kev.

Date: 2008/06/22 22:05:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 22 2008,19:48)
ERV: You called me a retard? I thought elementary school was out for the year.

Yeah, Kev, you're a retard by any description.

Mentally deficient.

Actually, since you're a deliberate retard, or a DR, you are an insult to genetic retards.

Kev-0, I had students like you and I flunked them.  Hey, the world needs gas pumpers and screen writers.  I don't tolerate stupid, Kev-0, and that means you.  City of Stupid, population YOU.

Really, you need to go hang around your own low kind and stop hanging around here, because, in case you haven't gotten the drift, you're an idiot and we've got enough idiots to deal with.

Oh, and if you're thinking that Doc Bill is Oh So Superior to poor little screenwriter Kev-0, then you've finally had a sensible thought.

Yeah, I'm Bill to the Dawk I have a PhD, I'm smarter than you 'cause I have a science degree.

Smarter than you.  (<--- memorize this, dude.)

Date: 2008/06/23 17:04:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill

If somebody's going to stick up for old Kev-0 it might as well be me.

Somewhere in a Q&A Kev-0 wrote that he knew that Sternberg wasn't fired.  Probably the only honest thing Kev-0 has written in years, but there you have it.

That's why Kev-0 is a liar.  Kev-0 said the answer to that question was revealed in the film;  it was not.  Kev-0 wrote the screenplay, therefore, he knew at the time the answer to the question was not revealed.  Ergo.

If somebody's going to stick it to old Kev-0 it might as well be me.

Hey, Kev-0, I was going to read your screenplay to cure my insomnia but I fell asleep reading the title.

Hey, Kev-0, you're so dumb your IQ isn't even a number.  It's not even a letter.  It's a scribble.

Hey, Kev-0, if you could write then...nevermind, what's the point?

Hey, Kev-0, you're so dishonest that you even cheat on yourself by jacking off with your left hand.

Hey, Kev-0, here's Louis to add the stuff I missed. I missed a lot of stuff, but I don't miss you.

Date: 2008/06/24 18:29:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Conservapedia seems to be like an Uncommon Descent populated by total idiots rather than total morons.

They don't even know their own kind.  One of the Conservapedians suggested that Behe could take ownership of some of Lenski's bugs.

Behe is a biochemist, Conservamoron, not a microbiologist.  The only time Behe comes in contact with E Coli is when he's flinging poo, although, in retrospect, he might have more experience than I give him credit for.

How about Casey Luskin?  He's a scientist. Won't he do?

Date: 2008/06/26 17:49:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Left in a Huff?

What model?  What year?  Was it a 2008 Huff convertible?

Or is "to huff" the masculine of "to flounce?"

Sorry, FtK, but were you trying to make a point, or simply honing the top of your skull which amounts to the same thing?

Date: 2008/06/28 20:16:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've come to the conclusion that Kev-0 wasn't involved with Expelled because he demonstrates that he knows so little about its production.

Mark Mathis, who apparently did work on Expelled, said and I quote:

But I would tell you from a, my personal standpoint as somebody who’s worked on this project, that Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily.

Funny, he didn't say the film didn't have room or ran out of time or had a crap screenwriter, although the latter appears to be the case.

Date: 2008/07/01 18:49:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Haven't seen Paul around the web lately.

Poor guy.  Must be long hours at the quote mine.

Date: 2008/07/02 16:25:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Which Elizabeth?  I or II?

Date: 2008/07/03 18:47:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, that was a sad realization for me that it took quite a lot more energy   and understanding of the material to quote mine than to simply quote.

The pitiful, deluded creationists who simply reply to a question with a quote or a link are just the foot soldiers, carrying out orders.

But, the masterminds must spend time to put the ellipsis in just the right place.  It must be done del-i-cate-ly, as the Wicked Witch of the West said.  Thus, the expert quote miner, like Paul, for example, must understand the context of the text he is corrupting in order not to "spoil the spell."

However, as intellectually dishonest as I think Paul is, my curiosity is piqued to hear from Paul himself how he views his efforts to portray the "other side" of evolutionary theory.

Are you proud to be a creationist gangsta, Paul, or do you disagree with my assessment?  And why?  Feel free to use an extra Blue Book as necessary.

Date: 2008/07/08 17:19:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Without Paul to kick around this thread is very boring!

Dr GH, give us an error to kick around.  How about a nice, juicy misquote?

Date: 2008/07/09 11:55:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
After a new vital organ evolved, you have to wonder how the organism survived before it had that vital organ, because without the newly evolved vital organ, it’s dead, isn’t it?

This makes perfect sense to me.

Take fish and lizards, for example.  Fish use gills to breathe in water and lizards use lungs to breathe on land.  Fish can't live on land and lizards drown in water.

So, that creates a HUGE problem when hypothesizing that fish crawled out of the water and on to the land.  Lungs are a vital organ a fish doesn't have.  How do you evolve lungs and avoid drowning?

Why, you'd need an animal that has both gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Where have I heard that before?

Any ideas, FtK?

Date: 2008/07/09 13:23:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Doc Bill @ July 09 2008,11:55)
After a new vital organ evolved, you have to wonder how the organism survived before it had that vital organ, because without the newly evolved vital organ, it’s dead, isn’t it?

This makes perfect sense to me.

Take fish and lizards, for example.  Fish use gills to breathe in water and lizards use lungs to breathe on land.  Fish can't live on land and lizards drown in water.

So, that creates a HUGE problem when hypothesizing that fish crawled out of the water and on to the land.  Lungs are a vital organ a fish doesn't have.  How do you evolve lungs and avoid drowning?

Why, you'd need an animal that has both gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Where have I heard that before?

Any ideas, FtK?

Hello?  Chopped liver here.

Have you found a solution to the gill-lung problem, FtK?

Date: 2008/07/09 14:09:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Doc Bill @ July 09 2008,13:23)
Quote (Doc Bill @ July 09 2008,11:55)
After a new vital organ evolved, you have to wonder how the organism survived before it had that vital organ, because without the newly evolved vital organ, it’s dead, isn’t it?

This makes perfect sense to me.

Take fish and lizards, for example.  Fish use gills to breathe in water and lizards use lungs to breathe on land.  Fish can't live on land and lizards drown in water.

So, that creates a HUGE problem when hypothesizing that fish crawled out of the water and on to the land.  Lungs are a vital organ a fish doesn't have.  How do you evolve lungs and avoid drowning?

Why, you'd need an animal that has both gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Gills and lungs.  Where have I heard that before?

Any ideas, FtK?

Hello?  Chopped liver here.

Have you found a solution to the gill-lung problem, FtK?

Try, try again.

FtK claims that she wants to talk science, so here's the big chance.

FtK proposed the question.  I set up a scenario for discussion.

Now, over to FtK to suggest a solution to the very question she proposed.

Ready, set, GO!

Date: 2008/07/09 14:30:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, FtK, I did watch the Berlinski YouTube videos.  Actually, I prefer those done by Thunderf00t, but that's another discussion.

Back to the lungs.  I don't know why this is so difficult for you.

Amphibians, FtK.  Frogs, newts, salamanders, animals with both gills (some for not all their life, e.g. tadpoles -> frogs) and lungs.  And lungfish and mudskippers, or are those the same thing?

Well, does this work for you, FtK?  Does this answer your vital organ question?

Date: 2008/07/09 15:02:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, FtK, how about fish, frogs and lizards.

Doesn't that solve your problem of vital organ development?

Date: 2008/07/09 15:42:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Remove a vital organ?

No fair, FtK!  That wasn't your question.

If the fish, amphibian, reptile sequence isn't plausible to you, propose an alternative explanation.

Date: 2008/07/09 17:35:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We come to the close of another episode of the FtK Show now in its 10th season.

FtK is EXACTLY the same year after year.

All evidence (nylonase, Tiktaalik) is "lol" or "rotfl".

All pathways are "just-so" stories.

All conclusions are not "facts" but a combination of "just-so" stories and "lol".

All research is biased by "worldview."

FtK has no time to think about frogs, but can write 1000 words on how mean we are to her beloved Walt Brown who has great abs and can do the hydroplate for hours.

FtK still can't explain ID because she doesn't know what it is.  (But, to be fair NOBODY knows what ID is.)

All questions are unanswered, except for declarations to read this or that creationist book that will answer the question, however, they never do.

Or, questions are ignored.

Or, questions are answered with another question on a different subject.

I agree with Louis.  All that's left is mockery.  

Here's a big LOL to you, FtK, and I'm laughing AT you not with you.  You're so dumb you make dumb bunnies look smart.  You're like a Bozo the Clown in stiletto heels, only dumber.  Check out Wikipedia's definition of "dumb";  it's got your picture!  Oh, look at the Conservapedia definition of "dumb";  ditto.  Sorry, FtK, you couldn't be a ditto head because the ditto couldn't stay balanced on the point.  Even poison ivy is smarter than you, although I wonder if the ivy is covered in FtK?  When FtK goes to Oklahoma the average IQ of both states increases.

My advice to you, FtK, is to get a Sarah Lee pound cake and a half-gallon of Dutch Chocolate ice cream and zone out for a while.  Oh, wear a bib.

Date: 2008/07/09 18:10:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, I lived in Oklahoma for 17 years and all my kids are Okies.

Also, I have a valid Oklahoma Satire License.

You know, I've tried to be nice to FtK and where has it gotten me?

Flounced every time.

It's an addiction I tell you, an addiction!  There she is in her white t-shirt, unfiltered Camels rolled in her sleeve, tin of Copenhagen in her rear pocket, sucking down the last suds of a Bud Light (longneck), sun glinting on her mullet as she toys playfully with her braided rat tail.

Just as I'm ready to make my move, though, all eyes turn to the door.  In walks Walt Brown, all ripped and six-pack abs, sporting the hugest hydroplate you've ever seen and it's all I can do is scuttle back into the corner, out of the light.

FtK, in rapture, whispers into Walt's ear, "Say something scientific, big guy."

Walt fixes her gaze with his and barely audible says, "Pi equals three."

Then, arm in arm, they walk out the door and the last picture I have is of that Copenhagen can moving up and down, up and down, up and down.

Date: 2008/07/09 18:47:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seriously, FtK, that cracked me up!

You should give up science and stick to comedy.  You'd be a laff riot.  Really, you could make some money doing a creationist schtick at AAAS dinners.

"Give up science."  That was a joke, hon.

Date: 2008/07/09 19:44:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hon, he postulates how hernias, hiccups, and snores evolved from freaking fish.  Come on.  As far as the tiktaalik find, sure, nice theory based on historical inference and bone fragments.  Interesting, but that book is certainly steaming from the piles of speculation found within it.

Hey, Hon, I've got that book, too, and Shubin doesn't speculate.  Maybe you have a reading comprehension problem particular to dumb bunnies, or maybe you don't have the book.

Shubin traces the nerves from fish to human.  No speculation.  He also discusses the embryology.  Remember that part?  Oh, Hon, I know, remembering so hard.  The little nervies in the fish are the same ones in your spine that make you hic-hic-hic after you snarf down a chicken fried steak with extra gravy and a couple of Buds.

No speculation. Everything in Inner Fish is backed up by observation and, dare I say it, evidence.

Of course, don't worry your pretty little head about all this science stuff.  Just remember that Pi equals three, and LOL.  TTFN.

Date: 2008/07/09 21:09:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Or maybe this one on the evolution of the parathyroid gland given her statements about the evolution of organs and organ systems.

More just-so stories like Rocky the Flying Squirrel.

I saw NO MENTION of a Vapor Canopy in that article!

Date: 2008/07/09 21:27:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill

There's that word again.

I read recently that Bigfoot migrated from Roswell to Oregon over a 40 year period.  Yes, there are clear Bigfoot prints at various locations across New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, California and Oregon.  It's theorized that this Bigfoot creature survived the 1947 Roswell crash, as reported by many witnesses, and made his/its way through the wilderness to a cooler, wetter climate closer to the environment of his/its natural planet.

Bigfoot is not only one of its kind but the last of its kind.  It knows the "scientific" treatment it will get if captured and, thus, keeps low to the ground.

I'm sure Walt Brown has a take on Bigfoot but I suspect old Walt is down at Lifetime pumping iron.

Date: 2008/07/09 21:50:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Why are all scientific papers based on common descent?  Because it was deemed "fact" early on, and everyone based their evolutionary scenarios on that ideology.  Like I said, if common design had been the basis for similiarities and differences between organisms, our charts would differ somewhat from what we see today, but there would be no reason for science to have suffered as observations and predictions would still be readily accessible under the design paradigm.

Total bullshit.  Bullshit, FtK, is making stuff up which you do all the time.  Who "deemed,"  hmmmmm?  Tell me, FtK, who, what agency, name a person, place or thing who "deemed" common descent a fact.

Name one.

This paragraph is totally Dumb Bunny Stupid.

Get some ice cream and watch some Lifetime TV which is about your level.

Date: 2008/07/11 19:05:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK!

Going back in time a few score pages, you owe me an explanation of 66 million cubic miles of water needed for The Flood.  Remember the geometry.

Did you run those equations, hon?  Simple geometry you would have learned in the 10th grade.  Pity you dropped out after the 5th grade.

Let me clue you in, oh, clueless hon.  I don't have to give Waltie a ring-a-ling because he published his "thesis" and not only can I read (gasp!) but I understand physics and math (double gasp!)  Therefore, and ergo, I read Walt's "thesis," the appendix, the footnotes and all that stuff.

Besides Walt's "geology" being totally non-descriptive of the earth we live on, his calculations are totally wrong, as has been pointed out many times before, and more to the point his most basic calculation involving how much water is needed to cover the earth to a depth of X feet yields the 66 million cubic miles of water for which you can't account.

Forget comets, FtK, you got a bad water problem.

Put up, FtK, or PLEASE STFU!

Date: 2008/07/11 21:09:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No, FtK, you are wrong as usual.  Please flounce.

Walt's thesis is Published.  It's in print.  It's not about Walt, it's about his thesis

Walt's thesis is wrong, wrong, wrong.  It doesn't even survive simple geometry.  Please provide me with 66 million cubic miles of water, FtK.

You miss this point because, I can only assume, your dumb bunny brain comes to a point.  How difficult it must be to shop at Krogers with such a diminished capacity for thought.  It's beyond blonde.  Srsly.

Date: 2008/07/12 21:40:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FtK, I've got two questions for you.

1.  What's the boiling point of water in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in celsius?

2.  What's the freezing point of water in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in celsius?


Date: 2008/07/14 16:42:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK, you said you have a copy of Shubin's book.

Is there a diagram of a wrist, specifically, a Tiktaalik wrist?

Date: 2008/07/14 18:51:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, let's cut to the chase.

FtK doesn't have a copy of Shubin's book, which is a great read, by the way.

Furthermore, Luskin got disemboweled by Carl Zimmer at the Loom.

So, don't bother your pretty little pointed head, FtK, to answer any questions, which you never do anyway.

Luskin is toast.

It was interesting that Luskin started by sweeping away all the discussion about the skull which is a key find in this fossil.  Of course, it is a creationist and ID killer find.

Luskin, once again, demonstrates to the entire world his abject stupidity and ignorance.

Thanks, Casey, for supporting good science education.

Date: 2008/07/14 19:52:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, it looks like FtK F**cKed up again.

Sort of the M.O.  for FtK.

Hey, guys, look at this creationist nonsense!  Isn't it total crap?  Isn't Casey Luskin a freaking idiot?

Oh, must flounce now, Walt is at the door in his KSU thong.

Total idiot.

Date: 2008/07/14 23:03:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is there a medical condition of stupidity?

FtK has it.

Hope it's not catching.

Date: 2008/07/15 07:24:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, FtK, since you asked, I contributed the piece to Dooce's book.

Ironically, I wrote it for the kids.

You should read it, FtK.  It's a good book.

Also, I recommend at least the first few chapters of Shubin's book where he describes his five summers prospecting for fossils in the arctic.  Five years of looking to find Tiktaalik.  That's what real scientists do.

Date: 2008/07/15 18:34:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (rhmc @ July 15 2008,18:26)
many moons ago, when i stumbled across this forum, i thought that "ftk" stood for "fuck the knowledge".
i may not be wrong.

No comment.

Date: 2008/07/15 20:57:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 15 2008,20:13)
I get to watch.

I get to criticize.

Date: 2008/07/17 18:13:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My two cents, but I'm always right;  by definition!

Many corporations over the years have implemented strict email policies.  In a corporation I know, the nicest, sweetest, most inoffensive, all-round wonderful administrative assistant was given a week WITHOUT PAY for sending a family-oriented, G-rated cartoon from her work account that was picked up in a random search by a email sniffer bot.  The rules allowed for reasonable personal email like soccer schedules or notes to the family about shopping, but sending out cartoons, jokes, chain letters, etc were considered over the line.

Sending out a threat, even if one could weasel-word it with a nixplanatory filter to be a not-threat, would be grounds for immediate termination.

Furthermore, he said, one is responsible for one's email account. No excuses.

Once a company is made aware of a breach of policy, they must act or the policy serves no purpose.

So, whether it was fair of not for M Kroll to get canned is immaterial.  She violated her company's email policy and suffered the consequences.

Date: 2008/07/18 08:16:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The "16" excluded Walt Brown, too.

Talk about closed-minded non-academic not-freedom.  Why a so-called "world class" conference wouldn't invite a Certified World Class Crackpot like Brown is scandalous. Shocking, I say.

Date: 2008/07/23 16:39:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski was pleased to learn he was a Chick Magnet.

Unfortunately for Dembski, though, he turned out to be a Jack Chick Magnet.

Date: 2008/07/23 17:30:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Finally, we got to FtK's core stance.  It only took 4-5 years.

Simply put, FtK = Kurt Wise

FtK wrote that no amount of evidence would convince her of the "molecule to man" theory.

That's Kurt Wise in a nutshell.  Kurt stated that even if confronted by all the evidence in the Universe, he would still believe his religious teachings were the literal truth.

Where FtK has been dishonest (like a zillion times) is saying that she hadn't "seen the evidence" as if she would recognize evidence if it bit her on the elbow.

That's a flat out lie, FtK.

It's not that FtK hasn't seen the evidence, rather, evidence doesn't matter.  FtK wouldn't accept it anyway.  FtK hasn't and you won't.  Ever.

So, this thread is over.  The FtK Saga is over.  With FtK it's not about science or education or the "kids."  Rather, it's about FtK and her need for attention.  There will never be a discussion.  There will never be dialogue beyond "LOL" and "ROTFL" and "Bite me, Blipey."

Poor FtK is a scared little mouse.  She's seen the USGS estimate for the age of the Earth at 4.5 billion years +/- 1%.  She's seen Walt Brown's arguments demolished with simple geometry.  She's been presented with transitional after transitional fossil and LOL'd her way out of it, flouncing away.

Make no mistake, FtK has seen the evidence and she knows it's out there, but if she admits even to a sliver of it, then then the chain reaction of facts, implications and conclusions will shatter her fragile world and "worldview."

Therefore, those of us who really run the world, the scientists and engineers who generate the power to air-condition FtK's home and provide her with cough syrup when she gets a cold, and clean water and good food, we will continue to do this so FtK can lead her life like a hamster in a cage, happy but oblivious to the wonders of the real world.  And FtK-hamster will play and squeak, and we'll smile and wonder what it is that hamsters think about, or if they think at all.

So, good-bye, FtK.  I'm leaving this thread forever.  If you decide to join the 21st Century someday, drop us a line.  You know where we hang out.

Date: 2008/07/24 20:48:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Paul Nelson is taking flouncing lessons from FtK.

Paul is like FtK but with a degree in a useless subject.

Oh, wait a minute...

Date: 2008/08/08 22:07:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The following flaws in this PNAS paper negate its claim that E. Coli bacteria evolved through a beneficial mutation:

This is the first line of the "letter" to the PNAS.  Negates the claim.

Yeah, right.

Apparently, the letter has been sent.  Fun will ensue!

Date: 2008/08/11 18:40:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I spent the past two weeks with some geologists around Mammoth Lakes, California near Yosemite.  I saw more obsidian than I thought was possible, huge blocks the size of cars.  I had a devil of a time in Devil's Cauldron, Devil's Fingernails and Devil's Dandruff.

That said, I think that none of the ID "proponents" actually believe the stuff.  They just hate "Darwinism" and possibly modern science itself since they are disenfranchised. Creationism failed, creation science failed and, now, ID has failed.  The re-constructionists are stuck with "academic freedom" and "viewpoint discrimination" as a result until they can come up with a new scheme.

I can't imagine that Behe, for example, makes a lot of $$$ off the scam.  Small potatoes over what he could pull in as a real professor, given his writing ability which I think is admirable.   Too bad he chose the low road.  He coulda been a Zimmer!

Dembski is simply a classic failure.  He probably faked out a lot of his teachers pretending to be smart because of his great fashion sense, but in the end couldn't stand on his own.  Dembski's drain-spiraling career is an open and mostly shut case.

Wells, however, being the most odious joker in the deck of fools seems to have found his niche in a bible college where he can churn out idiots books for IDiots, "teach" a little, do no research and masturbate in private cashing royalty checks on Thursday.  Win-Win-Win, I say.

As for Medvid, bless his ignorant heart, I think he'll drop off the DI payroll sooner than you can say "fucking idiot."

Date: 2008/08/20 16:45:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

I've seen Wes' face.  Why why would I need to see his behind?

Just askin'.

Date: 2008/08/20 20:28:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, sorry you're so sensitive!  I mean, hairy and a smile.

What's next, DaveScot a moderator here?

Do I get a patch or something?  Certificate?  Some Acknowledgement?

Date: 2008/08/26 17:54:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Romeo and Juliette compressed:

Misunderstanding results in young lovers committing suicide.

Now, the original play provides a lot more details but, basically, that's what happens.

Could one argue that my short synopsis is the "information" and the complete play only adds noise?

Or, if I randomly included paragraphs from Moby Dick into Romeo and Juliette would that be adding information?

The problem that ID faces is that the cdesign proponentists are unable to define either "information" or "complexity" or "design" objectively which would prove or disprove my silly examples. They rely upon layman subjectivity to skirt the rigor that is required.

Oh, Ishmael, Ishmael!  Where for art thou Ishmael!

Date: 2008/09/10 16:58:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ha!  I donated to the NCSE and got my Judgement Day DVD yesterday.  Watched it again enjoyed it even more than the first time.

The actor who portrayed Behe was most excellent, but I wonder if he'll get typecast playing morons.

Date: 2008/09/10 23:36:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The result of a materialist/anti-materialist reaction is immaterial.

Date: 2008/09/20 21:56:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Same here, but I'm under no illusion that I was missed.

Date: 2008/09/20 22:02:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Although Conservapedia is sport for us, there is a serious message to be considered.

Imagine if Schlafly actually ran a school district.  Close examples are Kansas, Dover and North Carolina.

Imagine opinion replacing fact.  Check out Conservapedia and imagine it replacing public school curricula.  Imagine how these homeschoolers under Schlafly are being "educated."

What happens to posters sympathetic to Conservapedia who oppose Schlafly?  Simple, they are censored or banned.

Conservapedia is an example of what public schools would be like if the Schlafly's of the world had their way.

Nice, huh?

Date: 2008/10/03 18:14:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, who let FTK out of her cage?

Steve?  Hey, we need a moderator here.  Cleanup on aisle 5.

Date: 2008/10/07 22:58:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry, Kev-0, I've already spent my DVD budget this month ordering "Religulous" now showing in theaters across the country and picking up rave reviews.

"Religulous," a Lionsgate (real movie company) production.

Date: 2008/10/08 23:26:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What is interesting about "Religulous" is how the producers had private screenings where they bussed in atheists and freethinkers and kicked out Christians and creationists.

Also, the producers had a contest to see who could buy the most tickets and they'd award that institution with a Prize of Great Value.

And, Bill Maher has been pandering to the atheist left like nobody's business on Fox TV interviews.

Oh, wait a second, that was "Expelled" and Kev-0's people who did all that.

Sorry, my bad.

Date: 2008/10/08 23:39:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I banned myself from this thread after FtK claimed the Kurt Wise Defense that no evidence would cause her to change her mind.  Therefore, in my estimation, the purpose of this thread is moot.

However, I would like to petition the moderators of PT to close this thread permanently because it neither serves a purpose nor does it benefit the mental health of its namesake, FtK.

Obviously, FtK is drawn like a moth to a flame to this thread to seek abuse and I for one think it's time for an intervention.  FtK can satisfy her addiction for conflict on her own blog and I see no reason why she should receive her fix here.  The outcome is going to be the same as we have seen in thousands and thousands of postings.

Sincere regards,
 Doc Bill


Date: 2008/10/25 11:26:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Alan Leshner in the Houston Chronicle.

refers to Discovery Institute fellow Steven Meyer as

a leader of the "intelligent design" religious campaign

I'm surprised the DI hasn't leapt to decry such a "mischaracterization!"

Date: 2008/11/17 08:47:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This has all the earmarks of street theater.

1.  It doesn't make sense on any level.
2.  It's not funny.

It would have been funny if DaveTard had gotten into an argument with WillieD, the echo chamber piled on DaveTard who WillieD subsequently banninated.  Then WillieD could have given a petulant Waterloo speech after which the echo chamber piled on WillieD for not being christian-like after which WillieD quit in a snit.

Then it would have been cool to descend uncommonly into a Mad Max Thunderdome chain of personal attacks in which one after the other they all banninated themselves leaving O'Leary.  We know that DuhNeece can't keep a site going by herself, so she turns the Banninator on herself annihilating UD and sending out streams of sub-light speed tarditrons in opposite directions.

You know, for not much money I'd be glad to write the script for them.

Date: 2008/12/01 16:48:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Who needs ftk anymore?

We could create a device like the Magic 8 Ball and fill it with ftk answers.

We'd call it the Magic Nut Ball.

Pose a question, shake the Nut Ball and viola!

For example:

How do you rehydrate a dehydrated hydroplate?

*shake*  *shake*  *shake*


*shake*  *shake*  *shake*

Blipy is a pig!

*shake*  *shake*  *shake*

Go figger!

*shake*  *shake*  *shake*

I didn't shoot the damn ducks, geese, herons, whatever!

*shake*  *shake*  *shake*

Call Walt and he'll tell you.  Here's his number:  BR-549.

I think it makes perfect sense.

p.s.  yes, I meant to type viola.

Date: 2008/12/22 14:13:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I remember being 28.


Date: 2008/12/24 16:34:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Does his bike have shielding technology?

Reality shields.

Discovery Institute standard issue.

Date: 2008/12/26 19:47:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Question:  Once you've jumped a shark successfully, does that make you an idiot, a fool or an Expert Shark Jumper?

Our pal Casey gives us the answer out at Evo News and Views with his "review" of Edward Humes book "Monkey Girl" where Casey references such stellar intellectual, scientific and historical websites as ...

... wait for it ...


Yes, Casey offers as PROOF ReasonableKansans!!

Go, Casey!

Date: 2008/12/31 08:53:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I wonder in private if somebody doesn't come up to Luskin and wack him in the back of the head and tell him to think before publishing.

Alas, this is clearly not the case.  Our uni-browed, pinheaded friend, Luskin, has found his ecological niche.  He is Nature's answer to What's a Creationist Propagandist look like?

From observations in the wild I give you Luskin's boss, Rob Crowther, who writes excitingly about

New Research

Rob writes:

Here is another hilarious example of a just-so story from Science Daily. (In fact, this one is more just so-so.) Substitute the words "made up" whenever you read characterized. Were they in court, a judge would surely say: "Show me the evidence."

He hasn't even read the article in Nature because it's not out yet.  He's commenting on a report of a report.

What Rob is saying is that the researchers "made up" their report.  Invented it.  Fabricated.  Just-so.

I don't know about you but in my book that's intellectual slander.

Returning, now, the main thesis, based on Rob's behavior I conclude that Casey isn't an idiot, he's an apprentice!

Date: 2008/12/31 16:13:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Steviepinhead wrote:


If he's never been recognized or adopted by the clan mothers, he simply ain't a Pinhead, sorry.

If I had a soul it would surely be damned by this transgression of mine.  May the fleas of a thousand camels nest in my armpits.

However, calling Luskin a moron is an insult to morons, so I guess everybody's on the hook.

Curse that Luskin!  Da goober's downright uninsultable!

Date: 2009/01/03 12:14:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, I know I come across as a young jackass, but really I'm an old goat.

Date: 2009/01/03 15:05:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I live with a LOL Qat.  This is Kink.

Date: 2009/01/07 23:48:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Bob: Is this good?

I think that's Bob of Bob's Tire and Hair Care Emporium in Waco Texas, Purveyors since 1997 of Galapagos Finch feathers and Flatulence Remedies.

Bob is working on an advanced degree in non-academic conduct and hopes to be removed from his tenured position so he can work on his autobiography, Bob the Finch and the Crock of Persecution.

Date: 2009/01/10 20:26:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think the DI is just trying to spoil the party.

You know, Luskin in the punchbowl.

Date: 2009/01/11 15:18:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Since we all know that nobody was "expelled" in Expelled, and that Kev-0's screenplay was a pack o' lies, if only they had waited a year they would have had a bone fide Expell-o-rama person.

Caroline Crocker.

No longer "executive director" of the IDEA clubs.  


By creationists.  Go figger.

Date: 2009/01/12 16:42:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Conservapedia is quite possibly the most concentrated, densest collection of STUPIDITY in the entire known Universe.  And, I'd be willing to place money on multi-verses, too.

Tard would be a step up for Conservapedia.

It's like a black hole of stupidity.  Imagine all the stupid in the universe concentrated into a singularity the size of Ann Coulter's heart.  No intelligent thought could escape!  

If you took all the stuff in Conservapedia that made sense, you'd have three piles consisting of a's, the's and an's.  They'd all be red from embarrassment and in Comic Sans because that's the dress code.

Date: 2009/01/12 16:47:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I would like to complain that I was not permitted to post on the 1000th page of the last thread by virtue of timezone discrimination. I shall be refering you to the Directorate of Egalitarianism in Cheap Posting to Make a Big Number forthwith.

Whoa, Louis gets POTW and now he's drinking out of a straight glass.

Excussssssssse me!

(Pint of bitter for me and a small sherry for my friend over there...)

Date: 2009/01/13 16:31:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm pretty sure that if you stood on Behe's shoulders you'd have your head up Dembski's butt, which wouldn't be all bad because you'd be able to have a face-to-face conversation with Dr. Dr.

Date: 2009/01/13 21:40:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Uh, no, Kev-0.

You're a dick.

Which is an insult to dicks, but you get my point since you're semi-literate.

Date: 2009/01/15 22:42:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Damn, someone already called Kev-0 an ignorant moron.

Yes, Kev-0 you are ignorant as in uneducated.  Purposefully stupid, I'd say.

And, yes, in case you're interested, I'm a whole lot more educated and smarter than you. So, don't even go there unless you have a Ph.D. which you don't.

Why you bother posting on this site is beyond me.  There's nothing to be gained other than your continued humiliation.  

But, while you're here and so terribly interested in all the stuff we do, perhaps you'd like to tell us about how Caroline Crocker got Expelled by the Discovery Institute.

Fascinating story, Kev-0, don't you think?

Date: 2009/01/17 13:51:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kev-0!  In order to have one's character assassinated one has to have character in the first place.

You have demonstrated and admitted that you are dishonest and that you perpetrated lies in your screen play for Expelled.  Remember the teeth-pulling thread in which you stated that Sternberg was, in fact, not expelled?

Character is demonstrated when you stand up in a planning meeting and say, "Wait a second, Sternberg wasn't expelled.  Nor was Crocker or Gonzalez.  It would be dishonest to present it otherwise."

Of course, you would have no longer been the screenwriter, but you would have demonstrated character.

Rather what you did, Kev-0, was to sit down in the planning meeting and conspire to lead the viewer to believe that Sternberg, Crocker and Gonzalez were persecuted and expelled.  (Crocker has since, however, been expelled by the Discovery Institute, but that will have to wait for Expelled II)

So, Kev-0, the bottom line is that you are dishonest and a liar.  Lying is intending to mislead and dishonesty is falsely claiming otherwise.  Your character hasn't been assassinated, it's been revealed.  Your actions do seem to bug you which is the only reason I can imagine that you come around here to have your nose rubbed in it.

Date: 2009/01/17 17:25:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I do recall, Kev-0, if memory serves that we tried and tried and tried to engage you in a discussion about Expelled and the "expelled" and you refused to participate.

You see, we all know the biographies of the "expelled" and some of know these people personally.  So, we have some insight as to what really went on.

Dembski expelled?  No, he was removed as head of the Polanyi center for non-colleagic conduct by the same guy, pres of Baylor, who granted the charter.  Dembski kept his pay for the 5-year duration of the grant.  

Sternberg, as you well know, was not expelled by the Smithsonian because he didn't work for the Smithsonian.  He worked, and still does AFAIK, for the NIH has a data analyst.

Crocker wasn't expelled.  Her 1-year teaching contract ran out and it wasn't renewed.  You should be able to find hundreds of biology teachers whose contracts run out every year.  Crocker has had several contract jobs since, all ending, and recently was Exec. Director of the IDEA clubs, announced with some fanfare, but now not (with no fanfare.)

Behe, Wells, Seelke, Marks and others have university jobs.

Even Gonzalez wasn't expelled.  He didn't make tenure because he brought in about 1% of the grant money of his colleagues, published virtually nothing and graduated no advanced students.  He failed to measure up.  Seems he's employed by another college now, however.  Hardly expelled.

In an interview it was either Ruloff or Stein who said that the Expelled team had interviewed "hundreds" of scientists who had lost their jobs or grant money for getting involved with ID.  I don't believe that at all.  If it were true than at a minimum you'd have a scrolling credits of all the "expelled."  Seriously, if the poster boy for Expelled was Sternberg then you were in big trouble with your main thesis.

So, come on back and tell us all about what REALLY went on behind the scenes.  Oh, and tell us, really, when Stein was going around giving interviews and saying things like "Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics," did anybody cringe?  Weren't you at least a little embarrassed by that?

Date: 2009/01/17 19:09:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, and tell us, really, when Stein was going around giving interviews and saying things like "Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics," did anybody cringe?  Weren't you at least a little embarrassed by that?

What killed me about Stein spouting off about that, and he did it several times, was that NOBODY said "what the FUCK?"

Stein also said that "Dawinism doesn't explain gravity."

Yeah, Stein, and germ theory doesn't explain red.

So, based on this statement, I would henceforth call Ben Stein a MORON and that would be "bad" because I'm assassinating his character and not addressing his argument.  However, his argument is MORONIC so what does that leave me with?

OK, Louis, I used "with" at the end of a sentence.  So, sue me.  Louis and I are only left with mockery because there is no avenue for discussion.

Creationists are morons.  I rest my case.

Date: 2009/01/18 12:18:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it was February through June.  Press releases, now mysteriously gone from the IDEA site (how (not) strange), announce her appointment in February and the new guy in June.

Hard to imagine.  Even Luskin can hold a creationist job!

Date: 2009/01/18 16:58:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I met this web designer recently and here's a site he did relevant to this thread.  (Who'd a thunk it?)

The guy in the videos is the designer.  Nice photography.


Date: 2009/01/18 17:04:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Birthday!

I was going to send you a sweater.


But, as illustrated, they only come in one size:  XXXXT*


Date: 2009/01/23 16:43:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow, you learn something new every day!

House Bunny is a drama!  I'll have to rent it again.

Date: 2009/01/23 21:59:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Now I'm confused.

I thought House Bunny was a comedy, now I find out it's a Freaking Documentary!

I want a House Bunny!

However, I fear the House Bunny was Expelled.

Tell me it ain't so!

Date: 2009/01/28 22:00:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - stevestory]

Actually, I fantasize about being a 14-year old girl and doing myself.

Of course, Louis is running the video camera.

Date: 2009/01/31 16:24:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Out of the mouths of IDiots, and especially our Favorite IDiot, Egnor the Egnorant!

It's the Money Quote!

Intelligent design is the opinion that design is empirically detectable in biology, and that it is the best scientific inference to explain many aspects of biology, especially the genetic code and the complex molecular machinery inside cells.

Look, up in the sky!  Is it a theory?  Is it a notion?  Is it a concept?  Is it pie?

No, it's an "opinion."

Finally, the truth from a Discovery Institute FELLOW his own self.

ID is an opinion.

Egnor:  Tell me the truth, now, does this opinion make my head look fat?

Date: 2009/02/02 19:02:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I knew that was coming and moved as far away from Ground Zero as possible.

Ixnay on teh inPay edHay.

Date: 2009/02/05 18:00:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paul Nelson.  Hmmmm, Paul Nelson.  The name rings a bell.  Can't quite place it.

Is Paul Nelson the unemployed dilettante who lurks around here to get his ass kicked every few years?

Or is Paul Nelson, to use John Kwoks description, the mendacious intellectual pornographer who, actually, has never produced anything?

At one time I thought Paul Nelson was the cameraman for the Girls Gone Wild videos and I was going to hit him up for some pirate copies but, alas, it was the OTHER Paul Nelson.

How come the OTHER Paul Nelson doesn't hang around here, huh?

Date: 2009/02/06 18:09:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Behe Liberty Blah Blah

Pardon my French but fuck me to hell in a handbasket, I can't believe Behe is STILL going on about the freaking mousetrap and flagellum.

I mean, srsly, HOW MANY TIMES does he have to have his nose rubbed in it to get a fucking clue?

He's like Jason coming back over and over and over.  "Intelligent Design" XIX - the Never Ending Flapdoodle

Mousetrap!  (You're wrong.)
Mousetrap!  (You're wrong.)
Mousetrap!  (You're wrong.)

OK, it's like Groundhog Day except Behe NEVER LEARNS!

Of course, I realize he has learned and he knows he's full of shit but he's so happy to spread shit, by god, there's a pony in there somewhere!

OMFG, what an idiot.

Date: 2009/02/07 19:43:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, given the New Improved Definition of Irrefutably Complicated, how might we categorize a chef's knife?

It's a simple machine, a wedge.  (haha, I said "Wedge")  It has a handle, rivets and a blade.  Obviously, it works just fine without the handle or rivets to do "cutting" but the handle and rivets can't do "cutting" by themselves.

I must be missing something, 'cause I can't figure it out.

Ah, ha!

I've got it.

I'm not MISSING something, my problem is that I HAVE something.

A brain.

Date: 2009/02/08 21:19:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. - Lou FCD]

(opens pocketknife, fingers blade)

Don't worry, this won't hurt ... much.

Mayberry RFD wrote:
Since you are already relegating me to a stereotype,

Negative-o, Brainiac, you're doing a fine job of that all by yourself.

(wipes blade)

Now, that wasn't so bad, was it?

Date: 2009/02/09 16:19:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Louis, although you are correct that a walk to the pub usually takes one through a park, I'm sure that on several occasions my route home FROM the pub went through Uzbekistan.

How else do I explain waking up in the morning wearing a yak skin hat?

Date: 2009/02/09 21:50:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No, you get a D for being illiterate.

Sorry, but I already spent 10 years in college.

Educate yourself, idiot.

Date: 2009/02/10 07:37:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mayberry RFD,

You are right and I am wrong.

You are not illiterate.  My mistake.  Wrong word.

You are ignorant, however.

Also, I gave you a D out of charity.  Back in the day when I was teaching, if you had turned in on a test what you wrote, I would have failed you.

So, I'm taking back the D and giving you an F.

But, I'm not done yet!

Should you return, please explain the importance of "common sense" in science.  Start with the Observable Fact that the Sun rises in the east, sets in the west and the Earth observably does not move much less rotate at a rate of 1000 miles per hour.  Then, using common sense, describe or prove a heliocentric system of sun and planets, and that the Earth moves and rotates.

Thank you for playing Common Sense 101.

p.s.  There will be a quiz on Monday.

Date: 2009/02/10 21:34:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mayberry RFD,

I thought I was puffed up because of cheeseburgers, but it turns out it's only my vast store of knowledge.  That's a relief!  Thanks.

Louis isn't high-minded.  He's definitely low-brow.  I'm high-minded.  Just ask me.

As for "which PhD to believe," well this will come as a shock to an ignorant but literate person such as yourself, but as a scientist I don't "believe" anything.  Certainly not a PhD.  'Cause I am one and I don't believe me.  

You can believe that.

Here's what you do RFD old bean, go into a lab and do the experiment.  Come back and tell us all about protein hydrolysis.  Go into the field and look at the rocks.  Get yourself a stick and a nail and chart the stars.  Grow some pea plants.  Do it yourself.  If you don't "believe" it, go out and do something.  No one's stopping you.

So while you were out in the missionary position, I was in a lab night and day (cue violins, Louis) working on pattern recognition of dipeptide mass spectra.  Funny thing, I never believed it would work.

Date: 2009/02/11 16:15:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Birthday Chucky D!

Were he here, I would give Charles a copy of this book because I've enjoyed reading it several times:

Darwin - The Life of a Tormented Evolutionist by Adrian Desmond and James Moore, WW Norton & Co, 1991, ISBN 0-393-31150-3, 808 pages.

When you read about what Darwin did just on the Beagle, it would be enough for one career.  One of his monographs would be enough for one career.  To consider the vast volume of work Darwin produced, handwritten, is remarkable.

He was also ill for a great part of his life.  Watch the worm, puke, watch the worm, puke;  repeat.


Question for the crowd:  If Darwin lived today would he be as prolific, or would he be weighed down in an office writing grant proposals?

Date: 2009/02/12 10:58:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
About Darwin

Find out what happened to the Beagle!

Date: 2009/02/12 13:46:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, can I join the Louis Fan Club, too?

Do I get a poster?  Decoder ring?  Secret handshake?  Discount on lime Jell-O?

Is there a degrading and humiliating initiation?  (hope, hope!)

OK, I'm bored.

Date: 2009/02/12 13:51:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Here it is Darwin's 200th Birthday and the best the DI can do is have Anika "The Tank" Smith report on a Zogby poll about academic freedom.

Nice one, Crowther and West!  Way to strut your stuff!

Wowzer, I'm convinced!

Date: 2009/02/12 15:23:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Once every 200 years I'm allowed to make merry.

Lime Jell-O vodka shots.

Date: 2009/02/12 16:00:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thunderbird wine mixed with cherry Kool-Aid.

(Hey, maybe that's where I drank the Kool-Aid.)

Then, Annie Green Springs wine came out and there was no turning back.

Bending over and hurling, sure, but no turning back.

** Breaking News! **

The DI has listed a series of Darwin Day peer-reviewed research articles written by DI fellows and supporters.

Oh, sorry, they're OpEd pieces.  John-Boy Wells has a "nice" article that's getting shredded in the comments.  The article sucks but the comments are fun.

Date: 2009/02/12 17:50:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Here's the Well's piece of shit.

And this from some Texas lawyer goober.

And from Oklahoma we have this.  Hey, ERV, sic 'em!

Date: 2009/02/13 10:31:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Whoa!  Where am I?  Who am I?

I woke up this morning and the party was over and the monkey was dead.*

Darn that Nyquil!

*That's the punchline to a joke I can't remember.

Date: 2009/02/13 17:49:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My favorite DI Moment of all time was when Mark Ryland from the DI's Washington, D.C. office was on a panel with Richard Thompson who defended the school board in Kitzmiller.

Thompson made a comment that the DI added fuel to the Dover fire by advocating teaching ID in the public school.

Then Ryland said no, no no!  The DI has NEVER advocated teaching ID in the public school.

THEN Thompson pulled out a document that the DI used to have on their website titled something like "How to Teach Intelligent Design and Avoid Constitutional Entanglements - A Teacher's Guide" and waved it in Ryland's face.

Now, remember, these guys are on the SAME SIDE!  It was hilarious.  Ryland shut up fast and Thompson was furious enough to launch into a tirade about how the DI pulled out of the case and what assholes they were.   (Poetic license at work here, but you get the picture.)

Soon after that Ryland left the DI to "pursue other interests" as they say.

Busted, I say!

Date: 2009/02/13 20:38:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I wonder if Ryland got a layoff package from the DI.

Knowing Ryland's luck he got Luskin's "package."

Date: 2009/02/14 10:26:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I know, don't feed the troll.  Satan is making me do this!

Hey, Mayberry RFD, you wrote:

Then when one of your own scientists who is trained by evolutionary science, and is highly credentialed, turns  and says, "You guys, there's too many problems with this theory and I really think there is some design implications here in this thing I'm studying--then suddenly--he is no longer a scientist.  SO let's take away his funding, his status in the community, and then ridicule him if he is funded by Christians who believe in a designer.

Who are you referring to?

Date: 2009/02/14 10:29:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I Expelled myself and got an entire house!

Date: 2009/02/14 12:25:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill

I hate it when Louis is on drugs.

We gotta talk him down.

Date: 2009/02/16 18:04:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think RFJE only has a ticket for the short bus.

Date: 2009/02/16 21:37:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Post of the Week!  And, it's only Monday!

I'd like to thank my agent and my publicist and, of course, Jesus and his father, God, without whom I would not have been so blessed.  And, I'm sorry the rest of you aren't blessed but there's only so much blessed to go around and it's my turn.

So, there.

But, I'd really like to thank Amadan who did the tee-up to my award even though Amadan, obviously, did something to be less blessed than me.

And, while I'm blessed, I'd like to pray that the scrotum fungus that Louis suffers from clears up.

Hugs to everybody, even Arlen, even though he's a H)m).

Date: 2009/02/17 15:56:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What I like is how Luskin references his OWN propaganda.

"Hey, they were mean to Sternberg and if you don't believe me just read me.  See, I told you so!"

Date: 2009/02/17 18:12:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Baylor Engineering was none to keen to find Robert Marks pallin' around with Sweater Boy.  So much so that they dumped SB's funding and revoked his Baylor Cafeteria meal card.

Also, Marks was told in no uncertain terms that Jesus was not an engineer and to ixnay the odgay from Marks' lectures.

There has been quite a cooling of ID Engineering, despite Fugly's announcement of an "imminent" publication.

Seems that Marks prefers his Endowed Chair paycheck in Waco versus a job as Dembski's pool boy at the Southwest Nitwit Seminary rec hall.

Wise move, Marks.

Date: 2009/02/19 09:00:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
PhD creationist from Harvard.

That would be Kurt Wise.

I know another guy like Mayberry RFD who says things like "Darwinism doesn't explain thermodynamics."  All very sciency sounding.

Date: 2009/02/19 18:23:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at Evo Spews and Snooze, David Klinghoffer (Hey, David, what's that clinging to your hoffer?), is indignant


about being called a dishonest creationist.

Is there any other kind?

Seems that the Klingmeister sent an unsolicited request for a university event to a representative of said university and was shocked


to find said unsolicited email request posted on PZ's website for all on the Intertubes to see.

"How dare they post my Spam," fumed Klingknocker!

The Klingster then proceeded to lambast against the gentle biology prof from Vermont  and Ben Stein with dialogue directly out of Star Trek.

Regarding Stein, Colonel Kling stated, "Dammit, Jim, he's an entertainer, not a doctor!"

I guess Ben won't get an invitation to the DI's Annual Picnic and Crow Eating Contest this year.

Check out the fun at
Pharyngula and
E&V Screed.

Srsly, folks, you can't make this stuff up.

Date: 2009/02/19 20:38:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not to brag, but I got a note from the Good Doctor before it appeared on PZ's website and sent a copy, with permission from the Good Doctor, how ironic is that, to Genie Scott.

I'm having his baby.

Doc Bill Jr.

You're all invited to the Baby Shower.

(OK, I'm bragging.)

Date: 2009/02/20 22:10:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can only assume it's a virgin birth.

Date: 2009/02/21 19:41:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Even I pwnd Casey in a discussion.

Luskin is such a pathetic and, possibly, pathological liar that it's easy to do.  Just read the original article he's misquoting, usually someone who's DEAD, and call him on the facts.

Then he runs like the whipped attack gerbil he is.

Hey, Casey, if you're reading this, Nobody Likes You.  You're an Idiot and an IDiot.

Date: 2009/02/23 16:51:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mayberry RFD wrote:

As you have charged me with stupidity, hypocrisy, pride,  perversity, and ignorance, I will charge you with spiritual blindness, and people who are making their contribution for the spiritual ignorance and moral decay of our society.  [emphasis mine]

Let's see.

Stupidity.  Check!

Hypocracy.  Check!

Pride.  Check!

Perversity.  Not check, but we're willing to go there.

Ignorance.  Check

As for "spiritual blindness" I'm in the dark and don't have a ghost of an idea what you're talking about.

As for morel decay, it's best to cook them in butter and flame them in brandy no more than 24 hours after picking.  Otherwise, you're right, they'll decay.  But, I know about morel decay, so, what's your point?

Does this mean that Mayberry RFD is canceled?  Does Opie know?

Date: 2009/02/24 16:27:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, I was jacking with Mayberry RFD about his "morals" comments and simply trying to pun it up.

I ain't eatin' no toadstools!

However, I had a friend who was an expert, experienced morel hunter and he had a "spot" in some oak woods where these things grow well that he visited each year.  A sack of those things could be sold for $1000.

Apparently, they weren't poisonous.

When it comes to mushrooms I stick to one species I know well:

kroger buttonus

Date: 2009/02/26 21:15:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't you love it how the mendacious intellectual pornographer and attack gerbil for the Kristian Kreationist Establushment commits scientific slander in the cause of "fair and balanced" reporting?

Even if they're right about the fossil reconstruction, we're still talking about an evolutionary story based upon two millimeter-sized ankle bones — not exactly a shining example of transitional features.

So, here we have a lying lawyer bloviating about a research article he can't possibly understand, but he can throw his primate feces, and he does.

"Oh, doesn't look transitional to me!  And I'm a creationist lawyer!  I noze stuff."

What an idiot.  

If it weren't for Casey's eyebrow deformity I'd be even more harsh.

Date: 2009/02/27 11:17:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It appears that Casey the DI's attack gerbil is excreting a new tactic, at least I haven't noticed it until his recent scat.

Example:  the Tree of Life is fixed!  Fixed, I say!  Any change to it is admission of a Darwinian retraction.

See what he's doing?  If a report comes out describing how Luskin is related to an onion, then later, with new data, a report comes out describing Luskin distantly related to an onion but closely related to a turnip,

that's a "retraction."  An admission that the Darwinists Got It Wrong.

It's a bird!  It's a plane!  No, it's Superman!

EN&V headline:  Two Out of Three Darwinists Get It Wrong

Date: 2009/03/01 16:25:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Judge Jones plagiarizing

If Behe actually used the word plagiarizing then he is not only stupid but stupidly wrong.

Plagiarizing is taking someone's idea and presenting it as your own without citation.

In Jones' ruling he cites the plaintiff's brief, trial transcripts and other sources in nearly every sentence and, in many sentences, multiple times.

Jones drew heavily from the plaintiff's brief and not so much (or at all) from the defense because the plaintiffs were right and the defense was wrong.

Simple as that.

Behe is, once again, engaging in intellectual slander to imply that Judge Jones failed to understand the basis of the case when his brilliantly written opinion clearly demonstrates that he did.

Date: 2009/03/01 19:44:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Lou, your inconvenient FACTS are getting in the way of my opinion-driven venom for Behe.

OK, I'm over it.

So, really, when pinned by someone who knows Jones' ruling, Behe is screwed.  He relies on the ignorance of others, yet bases his entire thesis on that ignorance.

Personally, I couldn't do it.  No matter my convictions.  I'd cave.

I can only imagine that Behe just doesn't care.  And, why should he?  He's not going to get fired or suffer one whit from his scientific slander.  

Too bad.

Date: 2009/03/02 08:28:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at Evo Snooze and Nooze, our favorite creationist Michael "Heal with Steel" Egnor has jumped the shark with a two-and-a-half double twist pike position leap:

Here's a delightful sample, but there is much worse to read:

My suggestion: lose your attitude. Boycotting true academic freedom — which is what this law is all about — is bad p.r. Your grants to study evolution don’t really come from NIH or NSF. They come from creationists, the ones you take to court and censor all the time. You’ve always played them for dupes, but "boycott" is a word you don’t want them to learn. There are a couple hundred million of them, they don’t much like or trust you anyway. Times are hard, and don’t make the mistake of thinking that the work of evolutionary biologists is indispensible. Evolution is worthless to experimental biology and worthless to medical research. The most "evolution-denying" country in the Western world — the United States — is the world’s undisputed scientific leader. A lot of taxpayers realize that Darwinist "just-so stories" are of little value to the real research going on in biology and medicine. Evolutionary research — like the research that claimed that the human brain evolved because apes got better spit — is a real "shovel ready" project, in the sense that a lot of folks would like to take a shovel to it.

Read the whole, heaping pile o' TARD at the usual haunt:

Egnor Flips Out

Date: 2009/03/02 16:41:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Rule Number 1:  You can write a letter while stinking drunk, but refrain from mailing.

Rule Number 1a:  Same with 3am phone calls.

Aside from the sheer entertainment value, does anyone at the DI actually vet the stuff they publish?  Didn't Crowther or West say "Holy shit!" when they read that mess, or was it a Gomer Pyle Sur-priiiiiiiise!

I tried to puzzle out a theme, but "hate darwinism" is pretty broad.

And, what's with the impotent threats?  Looks like a serious case of penis envy if you ask me.  Maybe he found out that Luskin is hung like a bull moose and he's taking it out on us.

It's a mystery.

Date: 2009/03/03 08:25:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Getting back to the roastee, I also considered that what Egnor was trying to achieve was purple prose satire.

Unfortunate, the prose is poor, it's not funny and there's no real theme.

That leaves Dembski-fugly purple.

What is it about creationists that they are jokes, but they can't tell jokes?

Date: 2009/03/03 16:28:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Obviously, I was wrong about "purple prose satire."

Neither purple, prose nor satire, although the wisecrack about Madison and Ann Arbor was strangely funny.  Sort of like using the word "kazoo."

We all know the best place to hold a Darwinian Conference is San Francisco.

So, in the end, I'm at a loss as to Egnor's point, other than the one on the top of his head.  He used the word Darwin-xxx about a dozen times, and the same for creation-xxx, but he mentioned "boycott" a whopping 23 times!

Considering Egnor couldn't find either his ass or Louisiana on a map with both hands, I'm at a further loss as to understand why he gives a rat's in the first place.

Could it be that the DI is running out of molehills of which to make mountains?

So, back to my musings ...

Purple Haze?  No.
Purple Rain?  No.
Barney?  Hmmmmm, possibly.

Date: 2009/03/04 21:37:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, if Egnor doubts his faith as much as he demonstrates by his writings, I was willing to give him the benefit of a doubt.

The brain is like a cell phone, remember?  He wrote that.  

Uh, Egnor, wrong number.  No call list.  F U.

Date: 2009/03/05 17:04:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OK, true confession time.

Because I'm such a nice guy I gave Egnor an escape pod:  it was a hoax.

Even if he wrote the thing while stewed he could have taken the pod, done a Dembski "street theater" follow-up and had a few yucks at the expense of the Darwinists who took the bait.

Clearly I was wrong, Egnor apparently meant what he wrote and the DI published it on their website as "news."

Holy Shamoly!  Is there a shark remaining they have not jumped?

I mean, lies and inanity are one thing, but what Egnor writes is completely delusional.

Date: 2009/03/05 18:26:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Birthday Monkey and Tits or GTFO!

(That's probably TOO hip.)

(shimmy excluded; tax and license extra; batteries not supplied)

Date: 2009/03/16 22:32:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paul Nelson sighting!

Paul posts an insightful observation at EN&V!

Here it is:  Paul Nelson has a Dream

Paul cites a paper given at the recent AAAS conference then dreams of, get this, high school students attending the conference.  Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.  Yeah, he has high school students attending the conference because, er, why?  Oh, I know, it's because Ben Stein taught High School!  Well, in a movie script, but that's like a dream, isn't it?  Made up.  Fiction.

A dreeeeeeeeaaaaaammmmmm.

Anyway, then Paul has a Vision!  (cue creepy SciFi music)  Paul sees DEAD PEOPLE!  Stanley Miller and Leslie Orgel!  Why????


Remember last year or so when Casey Luskin, our favorite moronic attack gerbil, wrote that Orgel supported "irreducible complexity" and Luskin got so thoroughly trashed on the Intertubes that he doesn't venture out of the house TO THIS DAY without wearing his Nixon Halloween mask?

Well, Paul Nelson is out there doing the same thing.  Imagining what Stan and Les would do. Hey, Paul, do you wear WWSD and WWLD bracelets?  Nelson has been reduced to Imaginary Friends.  I wonder if you go to Nelson's house and sit on a chair that Paul admonishes you for "sitting on Leslie."

Srsly, Paul must be a freaking genius!  How else could a guy with the mind of a 4th grader get a PhD?

It certainly does explain Explore Evolution, though.  Total.  Fiction.

Date: 2009/03/22 22:16:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You know, I've been out there on the Intertubes for quite a few years and the worst, or best, I've ever been called is a "hot hunk of man-scientist stud" by Louis.


OK, maybe Larry Moran called me "tiresome" but consider the source.

So, considering my studly tiresomeness, and my proclivity to make asinine comments, and considering your own collective experiences at being maligned by Moran or others less scholarly, do you think it ever occurs to Casey Luskin, Attack Gerbil for the Liars Institute of America who only employ liars and attack gerbils, that it might be something HE DOES to engender such love?

Possibly?  Maybe?

Gerbil food for thought, at least!

Date: 2009/03/23 18:01:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No sooner do I have an unkind thought for the Attack Gerbil than he squeaks!

But not at poor old Doc Bill!  No, Gerb goes after Genie Scott!

Run, Genie, run!

The Gerb threatens, "Eugenie Scott better reign in her staff members ..."

Yeah, Genie, reign in those staff members.

No, hang on a moment, shouldn't the Gerb, aka Attorney for Grammar, have said reign OVER those staff members?

Or maybe Mr. Nits for Wits meant RAIN ON those staff member's (parade), one assumes.

Or did our Minister of Gerbil Propaganda mean REIN in those staff members?

We may never know.  We may never, no.  We may nevah, Noah!

how long is a reign in Spain? or

how long is a rein in Spain? or

how long is a rain in Spain?

Oh, and Casey, TITS or GTFO.

Date: 2009/03/23 21:11:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Casey Luskin, I'm calling you out, you pathetic Gerbil.

You are illiterate.

Get a dictionary, dude, or take a class at the local junior college up there in dumb bunny Washington.

Seriously, you are an embarrassment to propagandists everywhere.

Proofread much, Casey you bucktoothed, caterpillar eyebrowed moron?  Hey, Casey, I didn't realize that Cheerios granted JD degrees.  Can I haz one?

Date: 2009/03/24 17:44:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
AFAIK, I'm the only one on the Entire Intertubes who pointed out the error which means Casey reads this thread and my more flattering assassinations of his caricature.

What, no H/T from the DI?

I'm insulted!

Date: 2009/03/24 21:02:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thanks, Bones, my life is complete!

Date: 2009/03/27 19:41:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I would like to give a shout out to Mavis Knight of Dallas who made a sincere observation that Ms Dunbar had demonstrated "statesmanship" in her compromise.

However, I would like to slam moron and creationist chair McLemore for shouting down Mrs. Knight as "indecorous" regarding her comment about Dunbar.

Unfortunately for Knight, Dunbar was merely being sly, knowing that her wordsmithing which she is self-famous for was a meaningless gesture.

However, it did point out the extreme intolerance of the creationists to any criticism.

Academic freedom to a creationist means it's OK for them to spout their nonsense and everybody else has to STFU or show TITS.  I guess.

Date: 2009/04/01 09:09:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Today, Google released Caddie, "he world's first Cognitive Autoheuristic Distributed-Intelligence Entity."

Caddie produced all by itself this remarkable Web Site

and I can only describe it as the first concrete example of Intelligent Design.

Why I'm mentioning it on this thread is that if Casey Luskin designed a web site, this would be it!  You know, maybe we've got ID all wrong after all!

Date: 2009/04/07 09:56:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, here's a guy, Nelson, who has studied evolution for decades.  He even co-authored a book called Exploring Evolution (of all things!)

Some years ago he was being interviewed and the interviewer asked something like "What would it take you, Paul, to be convinced that the theory of evolution is correct."

Paul replied that he had a list of seven or nine things that if demonstrated would convince him.

Excitedly, the interviewer asked, "What are they?"

And, amazingly, Paul replied that he left the list in his hotel room.  OK, well, since he's studied this for decades and written a book on the subject couldn't he remember one or two of the points.

Nope.  "Ah forgits mah list and haz no mammaries uv it."

What is it, pathetic or pathological?

Date: 2009/04/10 10:49:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Birthday from me!

(Paul Nelson said he'd send you a card tomorrow.)

Date: 2009/04/12 16:07:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can't speak for anyone else but I've never had an objection.

Uh, what's the subject again?

Date: 2009/04/23 22:19:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's been a day and has ace junior scientist and caterpillar brow journalist commented on Puijila darwini?

Not a word.

Could it be that Puijila darwini is a True Transitional fossil impervious and immune to Luskin's insightful insight?

Only time will tell.

Of course, Luskin has NO ACCESS to the original fossil material or information, not that it's stopped him in the past.

Oh, we await Luskin's "seal" of approval on this report.

Date: 2009/04/24 17:41:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Under the heading of Deja Vu All Over Again, the DI posted a brain fart by our favorite Heeeeeeere's Johnny Wells in response to something Coyne wrote.

What does Johnny-boy raise as a devastating rebuttal to Coyne's remarks?

Some cutting-edge research fresh out of the Biologic Institute?


Results of research Wells has done at his lab in Frog Fur, Florida?


A revolutionary computer simulation from the Marks & Dembski Centir for Intelligent Design, Tire and Hair Care Emporium in Waco, Texas?

Uh, not quite.

OK, whatever Wells did PLEASE let it not be the tired old Cambrian Explosion and Haeckel and Jaeckel!  Please, pleasepleasepleaseplease!

Ding! Correct answer.  Yes, Wells trotted out for almost as many times as Apple has downloaded apps from iTunes the Good Old Cambrian Explosion.


It's like Wells is playing the Sands and there's nobody in the audience.  Take my Cambrian Explosion ... please!

Date: 2009/04/26 10:02:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The question remains, then, is Nakashkmi the captain of a garbage scowl or not fit even to be captain of a gargage scowl?

Date: 2009/05/07 16:13:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've seen that backdrop before.  Casey must have gone down to the Fox studio in Seattle.

He was really pumped, wasn't he?

Notice how he tried to maintain a smile the whole time.  He's sitting there grinning like a baboon that just pulled out a "plum" but he can't maintain it.

He must have been coached on smiling into the camera.  Maybe it went something like this ... (cue dream sequence music)

OK, Casey, just relax and smile.

No, no, no, too much smile.  You look like an idiot.  Less idiot, Casey.  That's it, less idiot, less, less ...

Oh, no, you went too far.  A little more idiot, more, teensy bit more.  That's it!  Hold it.

OK, now, relax your eyebrows, it looks like you're hosting a wooly caterpillar convention on your face.  Oh, they are relaxed?  

Hey, Grip!  Can we get some eyebrow wax over here or a hedge trimmer or something?  It's too late?  OK, we'll go with what we have.

Camera in three, two, one ...

Date: 2009/05/07 18:53:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I just made a motion, too, or was it a movement?

It was good either way.

Date: 2009/05/09 10:34:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Very nice take down.

I was dismayed (OK, somewhat annoyed) how the commentator said several times that "100% of the textbooks get it wrong."

I checked out my 1962 HS Biology textbook (yep, still have it) and no Haeckel.  I checked out my college biology texts and no Haeckel.  I did find a Haeckel illustration in my History of Science textbook, however.

This is another case of Luskin relying on the ignorance of his audience to cover his lies.

Date: 2009/05/11 17:41:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The first time I read Dembski and came across his idea of a "target" I stopped cold.  Really, there was no point in reading any further.

There are no "targets" in nature.  Evolution is what it is.  It's a process and we're here and now because we're here and now, not because we're "supposed" to be here and now.

Because Dembski is a creationist he must start from the end point as being the product of a god, although "theologian" Dembski doesn't have the balls to say that outright which is why he cowers under euphemisms like "intelligent agents" and other bullshit, and work backwards for it to make sense.  Of course, it doesn't make sense.

Dembski's "landscapes" and "targets" completely miss the point that the "here and now" might not be the optimum here and now.  He assumes an optimal solution, but that's fool's gold.  Any solution that yields a viable population in the here and now is an acceptable solution and equal to all others.

If Dembski was right and the designer produced an optimal design then I'd be able to fly.  Oh, hang on, I'm going to London tomorrow.  Never mind.  

Who knew the designer's name was Boeing??

Date: 2009/05/28 16:12:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
McLeroy confirmation fails!

Details at TFN:

Texas Freedom Network Blog

Date: 2009/05/29 06:31:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm here in France enjoying the socialism, wine and good food.

I followed the live blog on the hotel Internet right up to the vote.  Thanks, Dan Quinn, if you were live-blogging.

With PT open in another tab, it was quick work on my MacBook Pro!

Date: 2009/05/29 16:35:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Please, J-Dog!

That's old nues.

(ba dum bing!)

Date: 2009/06/08 18:09:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As an analytical chemist I used to hate it when it was abbreviated.

(we were so poor we couldn't afford K-Y.  all we had was Johnson&Johnson "no tear" which was a damned lie.)

Date: 2009/06/09 18:30:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I haven't been broken down since I bought a Lexus.

Date: 2009/06/15 14:58:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Stephen Meyer, Director of Something Very Important at the Dishonesty Institute, has a new book coming out!

It's called "The Bafflegab of Tard" or along those lines.  They even have a pitiful Blogspot-esque website that I'll leave as an exercise for the student to find.

There is a link to Dr. Meyer's long and illustrious biography that contains this choice bit when referring to his previous "publication" of nearly 5 years ago:

Prior to the publication of Signature in the Cell (ed. aka Bafflegab of Tard), the piece of writing for which Meyer was best known was an August 2004 review essay in the Smithsonian Institution-affiliated peer-reviewed biology journal Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington. The article laid out the evidential case for intelligent design, that certain features of living organisms--such as the miniature machines and complex circuits within cells--are better explained by an unspecified designing intelligence than by an undirected natural process like random mutation and natural selection.

Because the article was the first peer-review publication in a technical journal arguing for ID, the journal’s editor, evolutionary biologist Richard Sternberg, was punished by his Smithsonian supervisors for allowing Meyer’s pro-ID case into print. This led to an investigation of top Smithsonian personnel by the U.S. Office of Special Counsel, widely covered in the media, including the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. The federal investigation concluded that Sternberg had been wrongly disciplined and intimidated. The case led to widespread public indignation at the pressures placed on Darwin-doubting scientists not only at the Smithsonian but at universities around the U.S. and elsewhere.

Dirty laundry in a freaking BIOGRAPHY!


Date: 2009/06/19 15:24:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The shorter Luskin:

"Comments are closed."

Date: 2009/06/19 20:56:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I assume that Casey Luskin reads this site.  How else would he know we call him an Attack Gerbil, DI Shill and Fuckwit?

I also assume that Casey Luskin is not banned from posting here.  He could defend himself, call us fuckwits or invite us to help him serve soup to the homeless in Seattle.

Thus, freedom of speech, academic freedom and teach the controversy is alive and well at the Panda's Thumb.  Come on over, Casey, we'd love to play.

I don't have to assume, because I know for a FACT that freedom of speech, academic freedom and teaching the controversy is BANNED at the Discovery Institute's website.  Yes, a standard of free speech for us and a different standard for the proclaimers of free speech and academic freedom at the DI.

Not surprising, though.  In every forum where Luskin has squeaked he's had his little furry ass kicked by people who actually know what they're talking about because Luskin is invariably WRoNG.

So my challenge to Luskin and the DI is to come here and do your best.  Show us that we're wrong and demonstrate why.

Somehow I think it's going to be summer crickets at night time.

Date: 2009/07/09 14:02:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Notice how Casey the Wonder Gerbil and aspiring Legal Begle doesn't tweak that the call may be recorded until the very end, even though qDragon1337 clearly states that he's a YouTube user right at the start of the conversation.  Get a clue, Casey!

Also, Casey not very skillfully avoids answering the question which was directed at activities by the DI, not Casey personally.

Date: 2009/07/11 17:10:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You wouldn't get those letters if it was just Chemical News.


Date: 2009/07/14 11:34:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ann promises us Big Things in Part 2!

In the next post I will consider some of the implications of this controversy for intelligent design theory.

I'm extremely confident that Annie will fill in the blanks for us:

The theory of intelligent design is *blank*

The implications to the theory of intelligent design are *blank*

We shall see!  I can't wait.

**UPDATE ! !**

Late breaking news.  Ann's Part 2 is up and sure enough she filled in the blanks.

Unfortunately, she filled the blanks with blanks.

They need a new slogan:  Biologic - Shooting Blanks Since 2005

Date: 2009/07/22 12:58:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Gerb goes after James Carville.

Now, there's a debate I'd pay money to see!

Date: 2009/08/10 16:44:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The DI has a video on YouTube:

Ziggy in the Cell

I thought it was Ziggy, but I didn't see Ziggy.  Thank Monkey for that!

Anyway, Meyer comments in the video that just after a protein is sequenced it enters a "barrel shaped machine" where the protein is folded.

What the hell is he talking about?  Barrel shaped machine?  It's been a while but I thought the final conformation resulted from the secondary structure (cross-links) derived from the primary structure (amino acid sequence).

Need education on this please!

(I know it may be a shock to some of you that old Doc Bill doesn't know everything, but there you have it.)

Also, comments are currently open on YouTube (hint, hint).

Date: 2009/08/10 17:19:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, so who chaperoned the chaperone, eh?

Are chaperone proteins generic or specific?

OK, I just read up on chaperone proteins at Wikipedia and it sounds more like chemistry than what Meyer described as a "barrel shaped machine" that "molds" the protein, or did he say "shaped?"

Who cares about Meyer!  I got bored and Googled "jennifer anniston nude pix" and got more hits.  Come to think about it, I could probably use a chaperone myself.

Date: 2009/08/16 16:28:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't know why Kev-0 doesn't do Sternberg.

Now, there's a gripping yarn complete with intrigue, suspense, dusty corridors, halls of power, room to grow and a back door that's exit only, thank you very much.  Sternberg!  Who was expelled then not expelled.

Unless Kev-0's lined up Glenn Beck to play Hovind.  Then it's got to be a Chick flick.

Date: 2009/08/19 17:15:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow!  Dembski baled after SEVEN comments.  Maybe he forgot the drumming he got in Oklahoma from ART STUDENTS and the flagellum evolution by a Real Scientist.

Dembski and his freaking Target o' Evolution.  How many times, Dembski, how many times to you have to be told there's no freaking target.  Don't listen to the voices in your head.  Srsly.

Doc Bill (Real Scientist):  How do you spell "target," Dembski?

WmD:  T.A.R.G.E.T.

Doc:  No, that's wrong.  It's spelled T.A.R.F.U.C.K.G.E.T.

WmD:  Wait a sec, there's no "fuck" in "target."

Doc:  That's what I've been trying to tell you!

Date: 2009/08/20 18:37:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski's pulling a Paul Nelson here:

"Lots of environments lack the active information to conduct successful targeted searches."

Dembski continues (in my dreams):  I've got a list of those environments right here in my pocket.  Oh, damn-a-nella sam-a-nella, I left me list in me 'otel room.  I'll runs off and gets it ...

*patter patter patter patter ... fade to black*

Two years later:  crickets

Committed Creationist Coward Dembski knew the next question was going to be, "Oh, yeah?  And what environments are those?"

Caught in an obvious LIE, Dembo beat a Nelsonian retreat.


Date: 2009/08/28 15:15:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Stop calling me LaBeau!

Date: 2009/08/28 17:10:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How many times?

How many times have we seen this behavior?  I'd say 10 to the 40th but that's just a Wild Ass Guess that Behe emailed me.

Creationist:  I don't see how protein 14 evolved from protein 13.

Real Scientist and Sane Person:  Well, ... cites references, gives 900 page reply, etc.

Creationist:  Gee, I'd like to read all this stuff but I'll be away for a while mining iron on Mars for the next 800 years.  Thanks, I'll get back to you when I return!  Love you!  Jesus Saves!

Instead of turtles all the way down, it's morons.

Date: 2009/08/31 18:59:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey Luskin is an ignorant MORON.

OK, dog bites man.

In a recent raping of history, boy gerbil Luskin who is In Charge of defending the World against the misrepresentation of the reporting of evolution, as his Very Own Tagline states, well,

what does he do?

Misrepresent evolution and the reporting of evolution.

Casey, you Idiot, I've been to the Burgess Shale.  Twice. I've also been to the museums in Canada.  You've done none of this you gravy sucking creationist.

To say that Walcott was "hiking" in the Canadian Rockies and "stumbled" upon the Burgess Shale fossil site is a GROSS MISREPRESENTATION of what actually happened.

Tell you what, Casey, instead of correcting your poor scholarship for the Nth time I'm going to be generous and let you research and tell us all what really happened.

p.s.  I won't hold my breath.

Date: 2009/09/01 16:13:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
A little known historical fact is that John Calvin was an avid fossil collector and naturalist.  Some of his lesser known works contain descriptions of related plants and animals and Calvin's musings on how the Creator could have created such order.

What he discovered and wrote about came very close to the theory of evolution.

Calvin's downfall in this endevour to reconcile his observations of Nature with his religious convictions was an attempt to merge the two into an overarching religious order.  This ultimately failed.

What, you never heard of Calvin and the Chimp Monks?

Date: 2009/09/09 20:45:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No, it won't be interesting at all.

FL is what I would label a "fucking moron."

Totally ignorant about science, history, biblical scholarship, math, geometry and, well, any subject.

He'll present the same stuff over and over and over.

Me:  2 + 3 = 5

FL:  No, 2 + 3 = 6.  Go read Dembski's book.  Read Behe's book.  Read every book in the Universe.  It's right there in print!

FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously.

Date: 2009/09/09 21:43:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oops!  Sorry, Deadman, but I violated all your rules in a single posting.

However, "debate" with FL is a lost cause.  Been there, suffered through that.  Go out to the Kansas Citizens for Science Education blog for the Best of FL.

2 + 3 is still 6 I assure you!  And always will be, by God!

Date: 2009/09/10 16:47:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FL sings Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered.

Take it away FL!

After one whole thread of tard
Like a heat rash I return
With no more education
I've got lots of time to burn

Evolution's just a wet dream
It's enough to make me puke
Even though I'm fucking clueless
There's nothing I can't rebuke


I'm back again
The same again
A simpering, whimpering tard again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I

Couldn't learn
Wouldn't learn
But there's not a Darwinist book I wouldn't burn
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I

Lost my mind but what of it?
It doesn't make a diff
Go ahead, have a laugh
It just makes me stiff

A shill I am
But still I am
Batshit crazy and in love with Ham
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
Am I

Vexed I am
Perplexed I am
I really want to have sex with Ham
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
Am I

Wise at last (Kurt)
Eyes at last (Ham)
I'm cutting Darwin down to size at last
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered no more

Am I


Date: 2009/09/13 17:36:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There is no debate.

There is only mock.

The fact that FL can generate 3 pages of mocking WITHOUT EVEN FUCKING SHOWING UP is BRILLIANT.

(that took a lot of caps-on/caps-off work so appreciate it, please!)

I hear Louis is buying vodka shots.  I'm in.  Srsly.

Date: 2009/09/18 21:21:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FL!

Long time, no mock!

How about that Noah's Flood water?  Figured out where it came from and where it went?

I'm dying to know!

(Not getting any younger, if you get my continental drift.)

Date: 2009/09/20 17:31:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I just read where some kid got over a million points in Guitar Hero.

A MILLION points!

God could try for High Score.  That would give him both a goal and something to do.

After that, maybe He could join a WoW guild.

Date: 2009/09/22 08:00:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How about a banana AND a rat's ass?

(Louis told me to say that.  Srsly.  I heard his voice.)

Date: 2009/10/02 12:23:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, what FL is saying is that there must have been a LUCA in the dim past, Last Universal Christian Ancestor, which changed over time forming branches, some of which survived, others didn't;  sort of like a bush (burning or otherwise).

Furthermore, the thin Christian twig upon which FL sits is the Right Twig and all the other twigs are the Wrong Twig.

Makes perfect sense to me.  Carry on.

Date: 2009/10/03 10:13:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Scienthuse belongs in the Tonto Group.

Date: 2009/10/07 12:04:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it's really cute how the IDiots (I'm talking about you, Dembski!) go to great lengths to explain what each other meant, but never, never confront critics directly.

Dembski explains Wells, Wells explains Meyer, Crowther explains West, Axe explains Behe and Behe explains himself scoring an pwn goal.

How come Wells doesn't hop on UD and explain what he meant and discuss it with the sock puppets?

Could it be that the rare time Behe forgot to lock comments he got taken to the woodshed by a GRADUATE STUDENT and had to retract his claim?

I get this vision of Dembski, Behe, Wells, Meyer, Crowther, West, Hunter, Axe and Luskin sitting around in a circle.

It's not a pretty vision.  Rather disturbing, actually.

Date: 2009/10/09 14:13:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ohhhhhh, Flood Geology AND bullshit!

My two favorite topics.

Global flood, eh, Clownshoes?  Rough ride for Noah in a wooden boat stuffed with animals and dinosaurs.

But, let's back up a sec.  Before you can carve the Grand Canyon you've got a water problem to solve.  It appears that in order to flood the planet with enough water to cover the mountains (and I'm not going to quibble with you that Mt. Everest was "a lot shorter then than it is today") you pick the depth.

You need about 600 million cubic miles of water more than there is on the planet.  That's roughly the area of Texas to a depth of 300 miles, to give you a visual.

So, where did all the water come from?

And, more importantly as this bears directly on Grand Canyon carving, once the planet was completely covered in water, how did it drain?

Oh, and that "poisonous atmosphere" you commented about, that's called Academic Freedom.  I thought you supported that.

Date: 2009/10/09 14:41:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Grand Canyon is in Arizona because Arizona is the "Grand Canyon state!"

Don't you know anything, Khan?

Date: 2009/10/09 17:21:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nobody has to refute Meyer's points.  He has to present a case that can be  verified independently.  So far, he hasn't done that.

Furthermore, FL, nobody has to refute anything conjured up in that tiny rat's nest you use as a pitiful excuse for a brain.  You have to present your case with supporting evidence, which you haven't.

Now, if you were EF Hutton it would be another story.

Date: 2009/10/09 18:41:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FL farted:  "Ohhhhh, yes you do."

Hey, FL, I'm rubber and you're glue.  Whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you!

So, here we go!  Ohhhhhh, no I don't.

Ya, see, FL old bean, I could make any outrageous, made-up, bullshit claim, as you well know since you obviously operate a World Class factory producing one crapola claim burger after another.

For example, I claim that Tinkerbell wrote the signature in the cell.  She's got little fingers, a magic wand and she can fly.  Prove me wrong.

Come on, FL, prove me wrong!  Come on, moron, refute me!!!

Don't believe me?  Then why does this amino sequence appear in EVERY protein of EVERY living thing?

aspartic acid - isoleucine - serine - asparagine - glutamic acid - tyrosine

Check and mate.

Date: 2009/10/09 18:46:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Same with me and it was a POTW!

Date: 2009/10/10 12:53:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There isn't a Grand Canyon in Rhode Island because it's too small.

There was supposed to be a Grand Canyon in the Caribbean but due to a typo it came out Grand Cayman.

Date: 2009/10/10 13:55:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Robert Crowther has his panties in a bunch because the California Science Center cancelled a showing of the DI's latest bucket of propaganda bilge, "Darwin's Dilemma."  Oh, I'm sorry, it's not the DI's bucket of bilge, it's Illustra Media's bucket of bilge.

Boo hoo.

Crowther is outraged, OUTRAGED that the CSC, a "department of the state of California" not only cancelled the showing, but furthermore refuses to tell the Disco Tute why.

Let's do a little investigating, science if you will, of our own and see what we can find.

Well, for a start the contract to show the film was not between the CSC and the DI, but rather between the CSC and an organization called the American Freedom Alliance.  Seems to me that the CSC is well within it's bounds not to discuss a contract with a party that's not party to the contract.  You'd think with all the lawyers crawling around the DI they'd have someone who would understand that, but maybe they asked Luskin.

The DI even tried to be SUPER HELPFUL (loading the gun) by issuing a Press Release on their own (ready, aim ...) about the event and how it stars fellows from the DI (FIRE!!).  

An independent press release.

All by themselves.  Not in association with the AFA or the CSC.

Now, cast your minds back to those balmy days at Baylor when Dembski ascended to the throneship of the newly formed Polanyi Institute for Witches and Warlocks.  President Sloan stood up for Dembski and the controversial institute and that was that.

Until Dembski issued the famous un-collegiate email which said basically "Nanny nanny boo boo, it's Waterloo for you!" and got himself removed from the position and the Institute closed.  Nice job, Mr. Smooth.  Shoot feet much?

According to Bobby-C the contract was cancelled due to "issues related to the contract."  What "issues?"

OK, check this out from the CSC website on How To Host An Event At the CSC Good:


It is required that the Event Services Office approve, for technical and factual accuracy, all promotional materials mentioning the California Science Center produced for your event (including invitations, programs, press releases, etc.) prior to printing or broadcast. Please allow sufficient time for this approval.

My bold, DI's bad.

Seems to me that the DI failed to follow procedures and issued a press release mentioning the CSC without their approval.  At the very least the DI should have coordinated their press release with their partner, the AFA.   Could be that the DI was well within its rights to issue any kind of press release they like.  After all the contract was with the AFA who was merely hosting the DI's film which is not the DI's film.  Could be that the AFA said, "The DI did it, not us!"  Could be that the CSC told the AFA, "Next time keep your mutt on a leash."

Could be, could be.  Who knows?  Well, the CSC and the AFA know, and the CSC isn't talking.

That leaves one source of information, the AFA, and one source of speculation, the DI.

Hey, Bobby, why don't you call up the AFA and ask them why the contract was cancelled rather than running around with your hair on fire?  Then let us know the whole story.  Wouldn't that be better than all your speculating?  Or mine?

Date: 2009/10/14 22:52:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, SciMoron, how's the water going?

Every creationist I've cornered with this question about water has run to Mama because he/she can't do the math.

Poor baby.

So, where did the water come from and where did it go?

Also, you've got a time problem.  You've got to get to 30,000 feet in 40 days.  That's roughly 1000 feet per day of rain.

Slowly?  You can't go slowly and flood the earth, moron.  Srsly, does it hurt being stupid?

Date: 2009/10/15 23:54:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Math is a bit of a stretch, SciMoron.  It's more like arithmetic.

I didn't exactly need Dr. Dr. Dembski to postulate a "probability" to figure out that to reach a depth of 400 feet in 40 days, let's see, drop the naughts, four into four goes one time, move the naught, ah ha!, 10 feet per day!

So, you're pulling the old "nobody knows how high the mountains were 4000 years ago," eh?  Doesn't matter, S'Moron, you've got the same problem.

You see, your problem is you don't know how to think.

Let's puzzle this one together.  Where does rain come from?  Well, we know from third grade science class (you did make it through the third grade?), anyway, we know there's something called the Rain Cycle!  Water evaporates from over there, flies over here in a cloud and rains.  Water runs downhill back to there where it starts all over again.

Now, pay attention to this part because it's critical.  In order to cover a sphere to any depth whatsoever you're going to need MORE WATER than  you have on the sphere to begin with.  

Oh, I'm sorry, I said "sphere."  Thoughtless of me!  Think of a ball instead if that makes it easier for you.

You think I'm kidding but Great Creationist Scientists, smarter than you and me combined* have tried to figure this out.  Hovind envisioned an Ice Shield which, unfortunately, would have blocked all sunlight thus killing the planet before the ice shield collapsed which would have incinerated the planet.

Brown hypothesised (I use the misspelled term loosely) a "vapor barrier" which, unfortunately, would have been 3000 miles thick thus blocking out all sunlight, and blah, blah, blah like Hovind.

EVERYBODY, except you apparently, knows about Baumgartner's model which B-gart admits has a "heat problem."  Yeah, it melts the planet.

OK, let's get back to the subject at hand, SciMoron, which is where did the water come from and where did it go.  So far you suck at an answer.  

Do better.

*combining my IQ (138) with yours (-200 estimated) yields -68 which even the absolute value of which would be a few points less than Hovind and Brown.

Date: 2009/10/16 11:08:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FL is a perfect example of what you get when you cross King James with Crown Royal.

Date: 2009/10/17 20:56:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, I just got a call from a guy named Noah.

Says he left his hat on Mt. Ararat.

Anybody seen it?

Date: 2009/10/18 10:56:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
pH.D.s do not grant one infallibility

What???  Now you tell me!!

However, not to be picky but you made a basic mistake in your acidic remark regarding pH.D.s but I'm actually neutral about such things.

I won't concentrate on it or log a negative comment.  It will stand as a litmus test in the end.

Date: 2009/10/18 12:43:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
BTW, Has anybody seen my keys around? I know I had them at the last EAC human sacrifice and drinking contest.

I think they're under Noah's hat.

Date: 2009/10/19 22:55:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Actually, FL is a heretic.

Ironic isn't it?

Date: 2009/10/21 10:45:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FL, I thought you were finished 57 pages ago.

Date: 2009/10/22 10:53:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dang...I guess no one noticed that I left out the word 'delete' in my sentence above. Illustration of a point is so hard to do on a message board...(sigh)

I caught it.  Sort of like "this sentence no verb" and "avoid cliches like the plague."

For the record I thought it was very clever and award you 4 kwatloos!

Date: 2009/10/27 18:34:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
From the ultimate source of knowledge, Wikipedia:

"Moron" was coined in 1910 by psychologist Henry H. Goddard[3] from the Greek word moros, which meant "dull" (as opposed to "sharp"), and used to describe a person with a mental age located between 8 and 12 on the Binet scale.[4] It was once applied to people with an IQ of 51-70, being superior in one degree to "imbecile" (IQ of 26-50) and superior in two degrees to "idiot" (IQ of 0-25).

The word moron, along with others including "retarded", "idiotic", "imbecilic", "stupid", and "feeble-minded", was formerly considered a valid descriptor in the psychological community, but it is now deprecated by psychologists.[5]

Date: 2009/11/04 09:16:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Then, FL, you agree with Gonzalez that the universe is 13.7 billion years old.


Date: 2009/11/04 12:11:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nonsense, FL.

(Take your pick on what I mean by "nonsense," basically everything you've ever written.)


YEC requires a variable speed of light.  Look it up, moron.  Gonzalez is an adherent to the speed of light being a constant throughout the history of the universe.  Look it up, moron.

Therefore, Gonzalez proves that the universe is old, 13.7 billion years to be exact.

If you accept Gonzalez's proof of ID you must also accept an old universe.  Can't have one without the other because Gonzalez says so.  Look it up, moron.

Date: 2009/11/04 13:48:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
One little nit pick.

When we (the sane posters) refer to "life evolving" or "life arising" or simply "life" we should take the time to add

"as we know it"

just so we don't assume that life as we know it is the only kind of life possible in the universe.  Considering the ingenuity of extremeophiles at harvesting energy we would be presumptuous to assume that carbon, water, etc are essential to life.

Date: 2009/11/04 18:37:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Playing along for fun, wouldn't being in an open star cluster be better than being part of a spiral arm?

How about a Lone Star?  Even better?

Just think, instead of the Lone Star state we could be the Lone Star solar system!  By Jove I like that idea.

Date: 2009/11/04 18:47:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
To Albatrossity2 and all:

I retract the "hair trigger" comment. That was cheap shot, uncalled for, and insulting.

I apologize.

On behalf of the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma, I hereby give you, Dr. D. Heddle, a Cheap Shots Pass for Life for not only surviving but flourishing after a kick to the balls by Dr. Dr. D*mbski for actually trying to help that moron be less of a moron.

Furthermore, I hereby grant you Honorary Membership into Delta Pi Gamma the perks of which include, but are not limited to, unlimited "seconds" of Mac & Cheese at the Baylor Cafeteria, 10% off at the bar and the privilege of driving the fraternity's BMW* once a year.


*after we collect enough dues to buy it.

Date: 2009/11/06 08:23:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hmmmm.  Not enough exclamation marks.  Almost whole, coherent sentences.

Whiff of sardonic wit.

I call Poe on RB.

Poe in Training.  Here are some tips for being a really good Poe, Robert.  First, don't work the room too quickly.  Never announce right off the bat that you're a YEC or OEC or Freaking Lunatic (FL).  That should come scores of pages later in a spluttering, incoherent burst of self-destructive rage.

Ask a few simple questions to get the evolutionists to waste their time writing out for the 100th time Evolution 101.  Then after a couple of weeks of cat and mouse, slip in a code word like macroevolution or academic freedom or stasis.  That sets the hook.

Once set and the room is ready you can take us all on a tour of Kreationist Krazy Town until even the cattiest of us tires of batting you around.

Then and only then do you exit with a Flounce claiming to do more research, be back soon, going on vacation, just took up a new hobby or, hopefully, something more creative and don't neglect to insult everybody for being mean, vindictive, patronizing, crude, rude and sinful, and let us know you'll pray for us.

That's just an outline to get you started.  This is a great place to hone your skills.  All it takes is a little work and dedication on your part.  Good luck and may the farce be with you.

Date: 2009/11/14 11:13:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The domain name, idcsnetwork, is registered to Sal Cordova.

Personally, I'm gratified to see ID's leading scientist, Sal, taking charge.  'Bout time.

Date: 2009/11/18 08:38:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Ed.

Date: 2009/11/18 23:18:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I remember studying Debacles in high school.

Date: 2009/11/19 11:07:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Birthday, Heddle!

Hey, Dembski and I were going to take you out for a drink but the bastard drank all the scotch!

Behe couldn't make it either because his schedule is irreducibly complex.

Meyer's out, too, because his credit card is no good.  Something about an invalid signature.

Luskin said he was busy with a science fair project involving a gerbil and a paper towel tube.  He calls it Tickle Me St. Elmo.

Maybe next year.


Date: 2009/11/26 11:35:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
For Thanksgiving dinner this year we bought a Canadian marsupial turkey.  Ideal for that cornbread and sage stuffing!

Date: 2009/12/01 16:56:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey was misquoted by National Geographic.  Can you imagine?

What he actually said was this:

... Mathematically that's like totally not freaking possible, dude.

Date: 2009/12/02 08:32:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't look now but the DI's pulled out the Big Gun:  Jonny "the Brush" Wells.

And what does Jonny do?  He Haeckel's Prothero.

It just "illustrates" how low Jonny will go.  Check it out over at Evo Lies and Snooze.

Does a Dragon Fly?

Date: 2009/12/02 18:17:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The plot thickens!

DI sues California Science Center


For withholding documents the DI "knows are there," that's why.

Yep, the DI is suing the CSC for document withholding.  DasTARDly documents that would demonstrate that the CSC is in cahoots with the Smithsonian in an active campaign of

**echo chamber on**

Viewpoint Discrimination

*echo chamber off**

Yes, the CSC is like a haystack of information and the DI knows there's a haystack in there somewhere, by cracky.

What, oh what, will happen next???

Date: 2009/12/02 21:17:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Denise, I’d love to share my theory here, but

Let me guess - It only works in the dark.

Date: 2009/12/03 11:44:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, we were having a nice bash fest here.

Who invited the nut-job?

Funny thing about the Disco Tute.  They desperately want to be recognized and legitimized but they don't want any accountability.

So, the film isn't THEIR film.  Nope, it was made by someone else.  The event isn't THEIR event.  Nope, the We're Right You're Wrong Federation booked the CSC.

But, somehow the DI is right in the middle of things dropping turds into the punchbowl.

It wasn't the AFA's press release that caused the problem.  No, it was Anika "the Tank" Smith's 'poorly worded' horn-tooting, DI-promoting, Smithsonian fame-whoring, ID-vertisement that screwed the pooch.

It's the AFA that should be steamed.  After all, they were doing the DI a big favor by hosting the event and the DI screwed them.  So much theater, I can hardly wait for the next act!

(actually, the pr has Crowther written all over it:  sloppy and sneaky.)

Date: 2009/12/03 18:01:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Show me your supernatural entities.

That's what she said.

(Can't.  Help.  Self!  Force.  Too.  Strong.)

Date: 2009/12/04 14:14:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Viewpoint discrimination."

Yep, that's what the DI is reduced to defending.

They can't claim religious discrimination because ID isn't religious.  Ouch, that double-edged sword cuts both ways!

They can't claim academic freedom discrimination because it isn't  academic.

They can't claim First Amendment infringement, either.

So, they made up this term, "viewpoint discrimination," because, well, because ... because it's not nice?  The California Science Center is a bunch of meanies?

How about this, DI.  Maybe the CSC just doesn't want to be a party to fraud being committed on their property.  Maybe that's it.

Date: 2009/12/04 16:29:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How do you know it's the real FtK?

It could be a red heron.

Date: 2009/12/04 18:00:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What?  There is such a thing as "viewpoint discrimination???"

Carsonjok, you're puncturing my prejudice, you bastard!!1 Ones

That means the denizens of the DI are simply morons, not total morons.

OMG, they've got a Plan 9!!!

Date: 2009/12/05 20:49:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So what's a Danni?

Is it like a Toni?

Date: 2009/12/12 15:01:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
D&M miss the point

Nope.  Not at all!

They avoid the point.  They go around the point.  They wear garlic to keep the point away.

You could buy Dembski and Marks a ticket to Pointville, take them to the station and they'd still miss the train.

(Naw, what they'd really do is sell their ticket to a man for a handful of magic beans.)

Date: 2009/12/17 17:52:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Robert!

I had an urge to buy a pouch in Calif. which is far away from Ark. and that makes me a marsupial, right?

Sorry, can't stay and chat.  Must hop to it.

Date: 2009/12/19 10:51:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Robert's correct.

I've been to ARKansas which is in the south of America and it's full o' possums.  Chock.  Full.

Can't hardly take a step without getting your foot stuck in a pouch.

Noah was obviously talking about possum when, in the little known Biblical passage, he said to his wife, "Ham, nothin', dem's good eatin'!"

Date: 2009/12/24 16:43:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Dr. Dr. Bill Bill,

Thanks for providing Yucks and Laff Riots in 2006, you IDiot!
Thanks for providing Yucks and Laff Riots in 2007, you IDiot!
Thanks for providing Yucks and Laff Riots in 2008, you IDiot!
Thanks for providing Yucks and Laff Riots in 2009, you IDiot!

Let me guess.  Yucks and Laff Riots in 2010?  Well, it beats working for a living!

Date: 2009/12/29 20:02:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
If the LA Times don't know Entertainment, ain't nobody knows Entertainment!

So, that's it, Crowther?  Viewpoint discrimination? Are you fucking kidding me, Crowther?

The Mighty Discovery Institute, champions of Intelligent Design, overthrowers of Evolution, Thetans of Theocracy, reduced to squeaking "viewpoint" discrimination?

Puh-theh-TIC, Crowther, puh-theh-TIC!  What's next, Crowther, telling your mother the big, bad Smithsonian was mean to you?

Date: 2010/01/01 18:45:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill


So, what else is new?

The Unibrow Attack Gerbil (note to Luskin:  that's an insult, not an ad hominem attack.) just discovered a year-old YouTube video that takes apart the Famed Discovery Institute List of Darwin Doubters, aka the Cheap Shot List.

DonExodus2 Rips Disco

Luskin is so flustered he can't even manage to cite the video nor the author!

What is it about creationists that as they get older they get stupider and more infantile?  Seriously, Luskin, we demand more Entertainment Value out of you than bitching about year-old YouTube videos!

Date: 2010/01/02 10:28:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, it took a while but I finally figured out what the little Gerb did.

I was curious why the little Gerb failed to provide either a link to the NCSE's supposed argument against the DI's Master List of Kooks and Kwaks or a link to the offending video.

I guessed that it was the video by DonExodus2 based on Gerb's description but without a link I wasn't sure.  

The little rat fink only listed a title "Evaluating an antievolution petition" posted by a "would-be internet critic," again curious because it's very easy to find out who posts videos on YouTube because their freaking name or handle is right there on the page!

So, a little Googling came up with this:  a little debate between the DI and the NCSE at a website called Opposing Views

in September, 2008.

Yes, 2000 plus 8.  Sixteen.  Months.  Ago.

Opposing Views (this is it)

Furthermore, the title associated with the video came from Opposing Views.  Had the little Gerb taken the time or had enough working neurons, he would have discovered that the title of the video is

"List of Scientists Rejecting Evolution- Do they really?"

You get paid for this, Gerb?  Srsly?

Date: 2010/01/03 16:05:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ha!  It keeps getting better!

Turns out that the DI filed a false DMCA claim against DonExodus2 for using the DI's logo in one of his videos.  We'll get to see how "false" false is when DonE takes them to court.

So, how rich is that?  Luskin is crabbing about a guy the DI is attempting to CENSOR under the flag of "academic freedom" and, I'm certain, Viewpoint Discrimination.

All together now, how many times has the DI used copyrighted material without permission or attribution?  Geeze Louise I ran out of fingers.

Date: 2010/01/05 16:47:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I thought Lenny went to work for Domino's.

My bad.

Date: 2010/01/08 19:30:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Whoa, cool!

Dembski has a freaking Time Machine!!!

so the effects of the Fall operate forwards and backwards in time

Maybe he can go back in time and get that bottle of scotch he owes.

Or he could always send Sherman.

Date: 2010/01/10 11:11:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The beef with DonExodus2 is that he used an 8-second clip of the DI logo parodying it as a LOL Cats picture titled "Invisible Research."

Would have been funnier with a cat, I must say.

Copyright!  That's Casey's Achilles' Ingrown Toenail.  Unfortunately, Casey missed Copyright Day at Buford's Law School, Tire Center and Hair Care and he's been struggling with the concept ever since.

Remember when he abused a science bloggers logo and went on and on and on how the logo was only 120 by 80 pixels or some such nonsense, as if size matters?

(Hey, Casey, news flash:  size doesn't matter.)

(Cue Louis for obvious retort.)

Date: 2010/01/18 23:12:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I did my post-grad work at Imperial College!

Let's see.  Impossible to park.  No good pubs nearby (not that it ever stopped me).  Saturday afternoon.  Five quid.

What to do?

How about "give it a miss."

Go to the Science Museum instead.

Date: 2010/01/24 12:41:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That's because Scots are special, not common!

They were Pict by God.

Date: 2010/01/28 13:49:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've posted this before but the pattern keeps occurring!

1.  Hello, I want to learn about evolution.  Rather than buy a book or consult Wikipedia or any of thousands of science websites, I've decided to come to this friendly discussion group.  To learn, you see.

2.  Oh, where to start, there's so much to learn!  How about Lenski's experimental evolution research rather than something boring like comparative vertebrate anatomy?

3.  Gee, I don't know anything about chemistry/physics/math/statistics/history/geology or really anything, but I'm concerned that the conditional equilibrium according to the Framastat equation seems to conflict with the overall thermodynamic electron spin up-conversion at the photon wavelengths expected on the hypothetical Earth approximately 3.447 billion years ago.  Darwin failed to address this.

4.  Wes writes a 900 page reply on photon energy up-conversion.

5.  You guys are close-minded and mean, calling me a moron! But, I'll pray for you anyway.

If we're lucky, Ut will skip from stage 2 directly to stage 5 and put us out of his misery.

Date: 2010/01/28 13:51:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Enjoy THIS for your amusement.

Nice handle, "Ut."

Date: 2010/01/28 14:36:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thank you, Ut, for jumping directly to level 6, Learning about Creationism.

Take a look at my stage 3.  Sounds pretty good, doesn't it?  There is no Framastat equation.  I stole the word "framastat" from a computer game.  Up-conversion is real but makes no sense in this context.  To a non-scientist, however, it sounds very grand.  Sciency.

Behe's work is not based on science at all.  There's no science, only science-sounding bafflegab. Behe's "work" is no different from a carnival barker.

Here's what Behe does.  You're walking in the rain in Houston and you're getting wet. Now, imagine that drop of rain that just hit your forehead.  I want you to calculate the probability of all of the molecules of water in that raindrop originating in the Gulf of Mexico, say, 200 miles off shore, evaporating, being transported to a location over Houston, coming together and nucleating into a drop, bouncing around in a cloud for a while and finally falling 30,000 feet in variable winds to hit you precisely on the forehead.

Got that?  Well, get your calculator and get busy.  Clock is ticking.

So, what's the probability?  Something like a ka-zillion to one?  Something like ten to the minus Juneteenth?

According to Behe you could never get wet because the probability of that particular raindrop hitting you at precisely that time and location is vanishingly small.  Of course, that's a gross misrepresentation of probability, or misuse, perhaps.  Anyway, it's gross.  And it's wrong.

Doesn't Behe know better, you ask?  Of course he does.  Does that make him intellectually dishonest (like all creationists)?

You tell me.

Date: 2010/01/28 15:11:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As a grad student I could never remember to apply Finagle's Factor to my Framastat calculation, so I was mixing Newtons and Murphys.

I mean, a Newton-Murphy makes no sense.

Now, Ut, you're not listening.  Pay attention or you'll get a time out.

Behe has his wonderful job at Leheigh because he secured tenure before stepping off the edge of the Earth.  Leheigh honors that and good for them.  There is, however, a disclaimer on the Biology Dept website stating that Behe's views are his and his alone and do not represent the views of the Dept, etc.

Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

There's no point in discussing Behe's "argument" because he doesn't have one.  Behe has a conclusion backed up by wrong math and misrepresentation of actual research.  It's been digested and spit out elsewhere.  Get off your lazy ass and look it up yourself.

You might as well discuss Doc Bill's Stage 3.  Hell of a good argument I presented, by the way.  If you're interested I could set you up with some used Framastats.  Mint condition.

Date: 2010/01/28 19:39:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Screw Lenski, the piker!  Intelligently designing his experiment.  Some help he was promoting the atheist evolutionist agenda!

Now, take those bacteria who developed nylonase on their ownself.  Now, that's science!  And without scientists!

Oh, sorry, Ut, hate to bring up observed evolution in the wild.  Well, in any case, they're still bacteria, so you can go back to your wine and wafers and have a nice evening.

Date: 2010/01/28 21:04:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The only islands of reproductive advantage I know about are in the south Pacific.

Date: 2010/01/29 09:26:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You're not being obtuse, Ut, you'd need an education for that.

No, you've simply snapped back to Stage 3.

Why don't be a nice creationist and just get on with blessing us and take a hike?

Or, if you're serious, and I know you're not because A) I'm a mind reader and B) I am an albino monk, answer this question.  It's simple.

Explain to me at the molecular level the difference between what Lenski has observed in his experiment and what happened in that waste pit in Japan where nylonase evolved?

(For your cryptic puzzle enthusiasts here's a clue:  There isn't any in nylonase!  (4)    )

Date: 2010/02/01 17:30:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've been following creationists for 40 years, Ut.  Used to listen to Garner Ted Armstrong (The World Tomorrow!) on AM radio out of Flagstaff.  I was studying biology and GT said the craziest things, stuff that was easily refuted, but more difficult for the layperson to access unless they were studying biology.

Today with the Internet, Wikipedia, Google, PubMed and all the rest, there's no excuse.

It's not a religious argument, though.  Religion is only the vehicle.

The root is political and based in power.  Here in Texas we have Yertle the Turtle running the state school board.  No checks and balances.  What Yertle says, goes.  Same was in Kansas and in Dover. Power, power, power.  Even if it's a little, bitty power.

The DI does not adhere to any particular faith.  Behe's Catholic, Dembski's Baptist, Wells is a Moonie.

The only common mantra is "anti-science."  The big, anti-science tent.  The DI will laud the Pope and lambast the Pope based not on religious doctrine, but anti-science doctrine.

That's why "intelligent design" is so weird.  The IDiots accommodate YEC's, OEC's, theistic evolutionists.  Doesn't matter so long as they are anti-Darwin, anti-public school, anti-intellectual and especially anti-science.

Why anti-science?  My view is that anybody can do science and reach a common conclusion.  Water boils at what temperature?  The density of lead is what?  Anybody can figure it out.

Dogma is different.  My morals are "right" because I say so.  My view of history is "right" because I say so.  I control the vertical.  I control the horizontal.  I am right because I say so.

How do you like those dingleberries?  I love it so!

Date: 2010/02/03 17:59:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Darn, Ut, my truncheons are out being cleaned.  Report here Monday for your beating.

A couple of things.  First, regarding "speculation."  Creationists are fond of saying scientists "merely speculate" about origin of life chemistry.  This is speculation:  I think Denver will win the Super Bowl in 2011 because I like Colorado and the word "bronco" is cool.  That is mere speculation.  Based on nothing but an idea pulled out of my ass.

Origin of life chemistry is an entirely different level based on years of study, thermodynamic and kinetics calculations and experiments, observation and much deliberation.  It's not "mere speculation."  It's a plausible, supportable chain of events.

Second, dog breeding and intelligent design.  Dog breeding is evolution at work.  Artificial selection is an artificial term that only means that a human being provided the selection rather than Mother Nature.  Technically, what is the difference?  If humans select dogs with thick coats because they are pretty or Nature selects dogs with thick coats because it helps them survive cold conditions, what's the difference?  Selection is selection.

Humans are not manipulating the dog's genes, not determining which point mutations occur or not and where or not. It's just selection.

Now, jump to "intelligent design" designing DNA.  It's not just the DNA, but EVERYTHING in the cell that has to be designed.  The membranes, the transport mechanisms, reproduction mechanisms, all the chemistry and equilibria, all the bits and pieces that work in concert with DNA.  It's not just the DNA, it's EVERYTHING.

Finally, a bit of sleight of hand.  How long did life percolate in that "primordial soup" before multicellular organisms took off?  Let's see, using the Cambrian Explosion as a convenient marker, our lineage, the vertebrates have been going for about 500 million years, give or take.

Percolation, using very rough terms, went on for about 3000 million years.  

Think about that, Ut, 3000 million years is a long time for mechanisms to be built up step by step, reaction by reaction, component by component, structure by structure.

"Intelligent design" proponents would have you believe that the Designer came along, built the cell, DNA, structures and all that stuff, then TOOK A 3000 MILLION YEAR HOLIDAY, then came back to give it a little nudge.

Seriously?  Who's speculating, Ut?

Date: 2010/02/03 18:25:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey does the Time Warp again!

Has anybody been following the News and Views at the DI's website?

Seems that Casey Luskin is stuck in a time warp.  Recently he's been reporting on old court cases and rulings and putting together a "rebuttal" to, get this, Ken Miller's critiques of Mikey Behe that must be five years ago.

Oh, and Kitzmiller!  Blah, blah, blah, Kitzmiller, blah, blah - is what creationist's hear.

What's up, Casey?  You paid by the word or something?   Or could it be that there's nothing new under the ID sun since Kitzmiller.

Date: 2010/02/04 17:05:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There are so many rules for posting at UD!!

1.  Take your Stupid Pills every morning.  If you miss a dose, don't worry, take two the next morning.

2.  Never disagree with Joseph.  He's already right.  Simply post, "I took your advice, Joseph, and read those books and now I know what you mean."  That's it.  You'll be a hero.

3.  If the posters at UD seem to be uneducated morons, go to Step 1 and take 3 pills.

4.  If at any time you begin to think that ID is a scam perpetrated by intellectually dishonest dickwads, go to Step 1, take all the pills and order two more bottles.

Don't worry, Ut, you'll be fine "discussing" "intelligent design" with the "experts" over at Dembski's house.  And, please, while you're there don't embarrass us by drinking out of the toilet.  That's REALLY how RB got banninated.

Srsly.  I heard that from Densye her own self.

Date: 2010/02/05 10:09:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Radiometric dating AND the Grand Canyon!

Double win for Steve Austin, the bionic creationist!

Date: 2010/02/05 14:20:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I guess they didn't like my post. It was deleted off a topic in the Biological Evolution section.

Obviously didn't follow your Doc's advice.  Order more pills.

Date: 2010/02/05 16:26:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I should have suggested an Anti-Delusional supplement for Ut.

He actually thought  (get this, I am not kidding), he actually thought he was going to have a discussion about "intelligent design" at a discussion group dedicated to "intelligent design."  "Serving the intelligent design community" I believe they say.

I guess "How to Serve Man" was copyrighted.

Date: 2010/02/06 10:57:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'd like to see an experiment with leaving them all to themselves for a while, without any opposition.

In a word:  cannibalism

Let's do it!

Date: 2010/02/09 18:10:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
ETA Now I know what a spandrel is.

Come now!  Joe Cocker sung about them!

Date: 2010/02/10 16:44:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't see how the same brain that produces this insight

Once more, I don't know how "first life" arose and honestly don't give a shit because it affects my life not at all.

not two seconds later produces bullshit like this

There is more to physics than the specific arrangement of atoms. I admit to a form of natural vitalism.

Now, I've been accused (or blessed as the case may be) of possessing unnaturally powerful animal magnetism (the stories I could tell you about delivering pizzas ... ) but "natural vitalism?"

Can you get that in a pill?

Date: 2010/02/10 17:11:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, the monkey told me she was an adult.

What was I supposed to do, card her?

Anyway, it was a long time ago and most of the charges were dropped.

Your point?

Date: 2010/02/10 20:15:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No, I wasn't Lenny's pizza boy although I heard he was a good tipper.  At least that's what SHE said.

However regarding theology, it's all bullshit.  Seriously.  Total bullshit from stem to stern.  

Theology without beer is like sex without sheep to give you a hint.

There is no difference between the Bible and the book by Henderson about the Flying Spaghetti Monster.  No difference, other than we know who wrote the FSM and we don't know who wrote the Bible.

Oh, philosophy is all bullshit, too.  I learned that, and got an A, from a course in philosophy.  The other thing I learned was that all philosophers are alcoholics but if played correctly will  buy you beer.

Date: 2010/02/11 13:22:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ut-less wrote:

You shouldn't knock good theology. Its the application of reason to revealled truth.  

I didn't knock good theology nor bad theology.  I mocked ALL theology.  Apparently your Revealed Truthy-o-Meter needs calibrating.

Good theology, Ut?  Srsly? Says who?

Is there a Good Theology Panel o' Elders?  Or ask Dumbledore?  How about a measure?  Good enough, really good, good gravy, good dog or good morning.  Is good morning better or worse than good gravy?  More to the point, is good gravy better or worse than good theology?

You say you study this stuff and you write something that bat-shit stupid?
And I haven't even gotten to "revealed truth."

Date: 2010/02/11 18:04:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I always thought it was "tow the lime" and had visions of Lilliputians dragging this giant lime across the sands, Egyptian-style, to a pitcher of margaritas.

Or was it a picture of Margaret Thatcher?

Man, I gotta lay off those mushrooms.

Date: 2010/02/11 18:24:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ut-less wrote:

Billy Bob. Don't you think the world would be a better place if everyone were a little bit more rational? That is all I'm saying.

says the guy who gets "revealed truth" from a magical sky fairy to the scientist who observes the natural world.

Yeah, Ut, I agree the world would be a better place if you were rational but you're not, you're delusional.  Hear voices.  Invoke Zombie Hitler.

By "rational" you mean that we should sit here and listen to you spout your unsubstantiated, bat-shit crazy notions and not call you out on them?  That what you mean, Ut?

Hey, if you want to be an intellectual freeloader you need to go over to the Discovery Institute website and comment there.  Good luck with that, grasshopper.

Date: 2010/02/12 16:43:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This comes down to metaphysical presumptions and their logical repercussions.

Let me shorten this for you:

This comes down to bullshit.

You're welcome.  Call me when the keg's tapped.

Date: 2010/02/12 18:31:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't forget the monkeys, Louis!  Lovely hairy things they are. I could ...
never mind.

Let's get down to bullshit, shall we?

First, I recommend highly the book by HG Frankfurt, "On Bullshit" in which he addresses this very point.

Second, why are you here TP?  I mean on the planet, not this thread. Easy.  You're here because every organism in your direct line of ancestry survived.  All of them.  Including the lemur-thing that managed not to starve or get eaten before he reproduced.  Including all the pikaia's that didn't freeze, get squashed, eaten or starve before they reproduced.  Including all the people over the last couple of million years who didn't die before they could start a family.  That's why you are here.

You want purpose?  I'll give you purpose.  Your purpose is to help perpetuate our species.  Your purpose is to raise and teach and be kind to children.  Your purpose is to do no harm and to be a good steward of the land.  Your purpose is to leave the world a little better than you were given it.  Your purpose it to live an honorable, charitable life.

How are you doing so far, TP?

Now, I'm the first to admit that all the purpose stuff is bullshit, but it's my bullshit and I like it.

Date: 2010/02/12 21:22:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm an arrogant ass, TP, but I try to be an honest arrogant ass.

I stand corrected (somewhat) when Louis tells me that sheep are better lovers than monkeys;  at least I'm open to the possibility.

But, I'm a reductionist.  All is chemistry and physics, ultimately physics.  I believe I have free-ish will in that I appear to be able to make certain choices governed by physics, chemistry, my psychology and the physical world (all of which are chemistry and physics).  But, I don't think I'm predestined to have Special K for breakfast tomorrow.  In fact, I'm going to have Cheerio's just to mess with the Cosmos.

As for metaphysics, philosophy and theology, it's all bullshit.  Clearly.

Where's my beer?

Date: 2010/02/12 23:02:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And I've been pretty understanding of the undereducated nitwits, eh TP?

Got something besides undereducated nitwitness?

I didn't think so.

Date: 2010/02/15 12:46:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In summary, TP sez:

… consciousness is a special quality … I believe … IMO … most people would agree … maybe

You REALLY need to read Harry Frankfurt's book, TP.

I'm not bullshitting you on that.  Srsly.

Date: 2010/02/21 12:01:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As soon as I read something as moronic as this

unlikelihood that Darwinian evolution can explain the appearance of the formation of NEW information in the cell.

I jump directly to stage 6.

Date: 2010/02/21 14:38:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seriously, could I get points towards a ThD by dropping into a science discussion group, type "Jon Davison" and bugger off?

Sorry, Professor Jon Davison.

I've always wanted to be Rev Bill.  Or maybe just The Rev.  I could marry people in bars and that would be cool.  "I now pronounce you trouble and strife."  

Has a nice ring to it, don't you think?

Date: 2010/02/23 08:50:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Of all the mean things I've said, and will say, about Paul Nelson, he deserves the most credit among all the IDiots for having the biggest pair of balls.  That's evolution for you!

At least Paul has the guts to come out here and mix it up once in a while.  Where are the rest of the creeps?  Safely behind their firewalls.

Over on Coyne's blog Nelson actually explained, at least superficially, how he can be a YEC and still present arguments about the Cambrian explosion accepting for the sake of argument a 500 million year timeframe.

It's not rational, but at least Nelson is sociable.

So, I for one vote to keep a chair by the fire for good old Paul.

p.s. as for the recent dialog, I can't believe that creotard brought up the UN.  Brilliant!

Date: 2010/02/23 16:22:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
If you turn TP's number upside down there's a 666 right in the middle.

That should tell you something.

Date: 2010/02/23 16:46:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill

some kind of Scientific Conspiracy

as President for Life of the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma, I hasten to caution you about using the onspiracy-cay word in ublic-pay if you get my drift.  Wouldn't want anything to happen to your grant money, would we, though accidents do happen.

If youse don't mind, me and my associates will let ourselves out.

Date: 2010/02/25 11:12:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
*Insert "I've got something for her to eat" joke here*

*Insert "She needs a meal, not a snack!" witty retort here.*


Date: 2010/02/25 21:58:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, if I read this straight, and with Joe G there's no straight, there is something called "specified complexity" but it's up to us, real scientists to come up with examples and definitions.

Is that right, Joe?

How about you, Joe, giving us a definition and example of "specified complexity" without telling us to go howl at the moon or something.

Better yet, if you can't provide the info ask you boyfriend to.  Either way it would move along the discussion.


Date: 2010/02/26 20:14:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's interesting how increasingly isolated is WAD at his little bible college.

He has his students out fishing for new ID arguments, trying to find something that works.  He doesn't care about his students "mixing it up" with rational people.  The great and powerful Wizard of WAD is out of ideas.  Bone dry.

Second, he's having morons like Sal and batshitcrazy77 feed him names of professors with mental illness, er, similar "worldviews"  (whatever that is!) to his.

As a grad student I could name the top 5 professors in each of the top 10 colleges representing my discipline, and what their research interests were and possibly the names of a few of their graduate students.

The fact that WAD can't research his own list only highlights what a clueless, incapable git he really is.

Date: 2010/03/06 18:52:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
On the count of three I want to hear some sympathy from you lot (yes, Louis, I'm looking at you.  I'm looking at you.) for poor, pitiful Casey Luskin.

Come on!  I want to see real tears.

Poor little attack gerbil Luskin has obviously suffered a huge blow to his ego having lost the inaugural NCSE UpChucky Award to Don McLeroy.  By golly, Luskin has paid his dues and deserves more than third runner-up after Ray Comfort.  I mean, it takes more than a banana prop to misrepresent all of science day after day.  

And when it comes to looks Luskin has more hair between his eyes than McLeroy has on his entire body.  (Disclaimer:  we do not have a visual confirmation re: McLeroy.  Based on an extrapolation only.)

Down, but not out, Luskin is determined to win the award for 2010 and he's off to a great start with an insightful series of articles about the devastating effect "Academic Freedom" bills are having on the Darwinian lobby intelligentsia.  Yes, quaking in their boots, the Darwinists only managed to crank out about 50,000 biology majors in 2009 in the United States alone.  Worldwide, numbers are probably equally depressing.

Meanwhile, Dembski has bet a bottle of single malt that a PhD in "Intelligent Design" will be granted within the next 20 years.

Buck up there, Luskin!  Ride that "Academic Freedom" bull.  You can do it!  We're all pulling for you.


*Except for Louis, but we'll bring him around, jolly him along, buy him a pint and a pork pie and he'll be better.  Rly.

Date: 2010/03/09 20:20:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I am determined to help Luskin win the NCSE UpChucky Award for 2010.

If we all clap I'm sure he can do it!

Luskin continues his series on Court Cases Where ID Lost Big Time with a 1,400 word review of the Selman vs Cobb County, Ga. decision in which a school board was forced to remove stickers it had placed on biology textbooks declaring the Theory of Evolution to be "only a theory" etc etc, praise ID and buy my book.  Love, Denyse.

Well, breathlessly, I read Luskin's 1,400 word essay in which our favorite attack gerbil went to great lengths to describe why the NCSE was wrong, why the judges were wrong* and why EVERYBODY was just plain wrong in not on the decision, but the analysis and reporting of the decision which, after all, was decided

On.  Other.  Grounds.

What "grounds" (play grounds?  coffee grounds?  grounds for divorce?) Luskin, alas, never says.  I guess it's a mystery or a secret or something.

So, well played, Gerb!  By leaving "On Other Grounds" open he can pen another 1,400 word essay or two.  There could be an entire series, like 24.

Srsly.  Give me a Sharpie and I can make Jack Bauer look like Luskin. I just need a few minutes.

*extra points for working Judge Jones and Kitzmiller into this essay, although totally irrelevant.

Date: 2010/03/10 08:15:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And, please, don't have kids!

You wouldn't want to raise them in this kind of world.

Date: 2010/03/11 11:01:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I believe, JoeG, that the subject here is "intelligent design," "specified complexity" and all that.

So, JoeG, what is the mathematical definition of "specified complexity."  I can't find it anywhere.  What are the units?  How is it measured?  

For that matter, what is the mathematical definition of "complexity?"  What are its units and how is it measured?

Meyer states that "specified complexity" can not be expressed in terms of "mere" information like Shannon or Kolmogorov.

Should be easy like F=ma or I=E/R.

Date: 2010/03/13 11:14:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, look, Louis posted!

Rugby must be over on the telly.  I say, old chap, did they kick a wicket?

In other news,

Happy B'day, Alan!

Date: 2010/03/14 17:40:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No it's a member of the prarie kind, and therefore a grass.


The short haired Tattle Tail comes to mind.

Date: 2010/03/16 05:42:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think that is enough about Dembski for a bit. One might think the class was primarily about him.

To save Louis the trouble of posting, I think this is the only reasonable thing you wrote!

Sorry, can't stay.  Must go out and buy a new irony meter.

Date: 2010/03/16 05:52:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Unfortunately I cannot comment on your second question as I am not as read-up on the Kitzmiller v Dover case as I should. My assumption would be that Dembski has perfectly good reason for the action he took (if you’d like I can ask him :) ).

Dembski sat in on Barbara Forrest's deposition prior to Kitzmiller.  Forrest's deposition is available on-line, I recall, and it's devastating in its scholastic thoroughness.  I have it on authority that Dembski blanched visibly as the deposition proceeded and withdrew from the case shortly thereafter.

Yes, Dembski was all bully to put Darwin on Trial but when his opportunity came he ran like a scared little girl.

Nothing dishonorable about self-preservation, though.  Dembski knew that Forrest was going to blow the case wide open, as she actually did later, and he simply didn't want to be part of the collateral damage.

Date: 2010/03/19 10:45:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The price of Guinnea Worm soup is going to skyrocket!  Better stock up now.

Date: 2010/03/24 17:44:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paging Louis!  Paging Louis!

Bring a mop and bucket.  Hissy fit on Aisle 5!

Date: 2010/03/25 10:57:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Understand your "point of view?"


I understand your (and Dembski's) point of view, but that's irrelevant.

Here's my point of view:  those pants you're wearing not only make your butt look fat but it looks as if you were beaten with a sack of steel washers.

What's my point of view worth?  Absolutely nothing.

Now, chew on this.  The age of the earth is 4.55 billion years old plus or minus 1%.

Unlike a "point of view" that's a verifiable, reproducible, uncontested fact.

Here's another fact.  You and I share a common ancestor with my cat.*

Got any quibbles about that?

*When I told my cat this he coughed up a hairball.

Date: 2010/03/25 17:24:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
On average, I see what you mean.

Date: 2010/03/26 12:37:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
At the risk of ridicule,

Stamford Brook

Date: 2010/03/26 13:27:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Turnham Green the hard way:

Piccadilly line before 7:45 am, on Sunday.

Date: 2010/03/26 15:56:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
While you weren't looking I got off the Piccadilly at Turnham Green (which later imploded as you correctly surmised) and hopped a District Line to Richmond but baled at ...

... wait for it ...


Even if I tell you my plan to catch a No. 93 bus back up (or down) Chiswick High Road I'll still make Earl's Court before opening time!

Ha, and Double Ha!

Date: 2010/03/26 15:59:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
But I digress. Northwick Park, unless I'm very much mistaken.

You are very much mistaken, sir!  Northwick Park is so small a station there's nothing there, not even Northwick Park.  You have to walk halfway across the sports field before you're even near the middle of nowhere.

Chump move, doofus!

Date: 2010/03/26 16:05:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
... leading to the hospital, which is wholly NHS.


Where they do mostly research.  More likely to get an autopsy than a diagnosis.


Date: 2010/03/26 16:09:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's Friday afternoon and nary a flounce nor a meltdown.

What is it, Spring Break?

Date: 2010/03/26 17:25:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thanks for helping to set up the pincer. Louis walked into it.

Actually the maneuver was based on the Buie Pile Clamp, Curved, Angiotribe Jaws, 8-1/2in.

Louis backed into it.

Meanwhile, I hopped a Piccadilly to King's Cross, St. Pancras and got a Free Fare by having in my possession a pancreas from Northwick Park!

I'll see your Spoon and raise you a Spork.

Date: 2010/03/26 18:42:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As I sit here on a bench outside the Waitrose at King's Cross munching on a chip buttie and a bag of Prawn Cocktail Snips, two things occur to me.

First, Amadan may in fact catch the 1835 to Bayswater at the rate he's chugging down Platform 4 unhampered, it appears, by his polyester pants generating enough static electricity to light Wormwood Scrugs for a year, alas, the Bayswater train leaves from Platform 3.  Ah, he's off ... to Birmingham.

And, second, where have all the chew toys gone?  Not a creationist, er, Seeker of Truth, to be seen in these parts.  I suppose I'll have to have a choc-ice and a pint alone.  Again.

South Kensington.

Date: 2010/03/26 20:06:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
They don't get grades at BibCol, just gold stars pasted on their foreheads.

Their mommies are so proud!

Date: 2010/03/27 11:46:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Station benches are highly underrated.  I slept like a baby!

I think I'll start the day off with a pint of mild at my favorite Courage pub in


Date: 2010/03/27 13:06:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'll save you the time.

The Shorter Collins:

"Wow, dude!  Have you ever looked at a frozen waterfall?  I mean, dude, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY looked at it??  It's like, dude, awesome wow radical tubular boss cool."

And in transport news, delays at Elm Park.

Date: 2010/03/27 16:53:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Date: 2010/03/27 19:32:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Remind me again of the difference between looking for "patterns" in a book, drawing a pentagram on the floor and consulting an Ouija board?

Date: 2010/03/28 12:10:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I have little doubt we will get into how and why an atheist would be worried about ethical issues like this.

Really, TP?

I have no recourse but to mock.  You are a moron and I call bullshit on this entire thread.


Date: 2010/03/28 19:13:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What was the last thing Paul said to Judas?

"Hey, Judas, don't make it bad."

Srsly.  I read that somewhere.

Date: 2010/03/28 23:21:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As President-4-Life of the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma, I hereby award for

Exceptional use of an iPhone


3.14159 points and a Free PInt the next time we meet*.

*not redeemable in Euros.

Another view courtesy of Google Maps and my avatar:

Date: 2010/03/29 19:09:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm going to block with

Green Park

It's my "fitness" station, nicely situated on three lines but within walking distance to most places of interest  (RNC bondage clubs, etc) and on the nice day you can walk from there to where you want to go.

Use a sole, save an oyster.

Date: 2010/03/29 20:17:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
TP thoughtlessly penned:

I really would think it kind of neat if it turned out there is a supernatural scientist (God) who created our universe.

Really, TP, he said mockingly?

"kind of neat"  Srsly?

You don't think it would be Kinda Neat for Santa Clause to be real and save us all a bundle at Christmas?

You don't think it would be Kinda Neat to own a flying unicorn or a beer volcano?

Wouldn't it be Kinda Neat if intercessory prayer really did work?

How about Kinda Neat if we could "accio car keys!"

Kinda Neat to be visited by a succubus every Wednesday night.

If you want something Kinda Neat, TP, at least you should wish for something you can use more than once, don't you think?  (Oops, might have stumbled on a truth there.)

Answer me this, oh Provoker of Thinks.  Suppose you came home one day and there was a chocolate cake on the kitchen table.

"Where did that come from," you ask?

Answer A:  I baked the cake for you this morning, said Dorothy.

Answer B:  All of the ingredients came together by themselves and the cake just assembled itself, said Dorothy.

Which answer is Kinda Neat?  Bonus points for why is your answer Kinda Neat.

Date: 2010/03/29 21:34:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, TP, from the rest of your unimaginative remarks over the past two eons I knew you'd opt for A.

But if you had thought about it for a mo, you might have considered the following.

In terms of Kinda Neat, having Dorothy bake the cake is anything but Kinda Neat.  As you said, it's the old fashioned way.  You're comfortable with Dorothy baking the cake.  Of course Dorothy bakes the cake!

And there you miss the philosophical boat and contradict your own thoughtless thoughts.

Dorothy baking the cake isn't Kinda Neat at all.  Nothing unusual, nothing surprising, nothing unexplainable, nothing to explore.  Just Dorothy, or God in your case, the cake being the universe.

However, you blithely ignore the seriously Kinda Neat proposition of the cake assembling itself.  Now, in the Kinda Neat world that's quite a trick, in fact, it's KINDA NEAT!  How did the cake do that?  Never seen that before!  I wonder if I could figure out how the cake did that?

You really don't think very much about things do you, TP?  There's nothing Kinda Neat about Dorothy baking a cake or a sky fairy creating the universe.

However, the self-assembly of a perpetuating biological reaction is, in my mind, Kinda Neat.

So, tell you what.  Me and the rest of the scientists are going to go exploring the universe and find all sorts of Kinda Neat stuff.  Meanwhile, you and Collins can go off in a corner and wank each other.  Have fun!

Date: 2010/03/30 18:57:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This installment of Casey Reports, aka the Attack Gerbil Squeaks, finds our junior scribe scouring the media for negative reporting against his pal and fellow theocrat Stephen Meier.  Now, to be fair, Steven Mayer has received quite a number of negative reviews for his book, Something in the Cell, so it's been difficult for the Casemeister to find positive, impartial scholarly reports.

HOWEVER!  Leaving no stone unturned the Casester found not one, no, not one, boys and girls, but TWO, count 'em, TWO positive reviews of Something or Another in the Cell or Whatever.

Casekey reports in Evo Snooze and Booze the following:  

Two Articles Defending Stephen Meyer and Signature in the Cell in Salvo Magazine

Yes!  Two positive reviews written by some science and legal scholar named

Casey Luskin

Isn't that amazing???  Casey found his Own Stuff with his bare hands.  Wonders never cease!

Here's a summary of what Casey wrote boiled down to the nitty gritty:


Wow, just wow!  Stephe Moyer is certainly to have someone like Casey as a fiend.

Date: 2010/03/31 15:52:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ever since they turned on that thing I've been unable to find my car keys.

Coincidence?  I think not.

Date: 2010/04/01 10:48:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's a nice day, hardly any sleet or freezing fog to speak of, so I decided to walk from

Green Park


Piccadilly Circus

but got turned around as usual and ended up at

Charing Cross

I'll head south to

Lambeth North

I know a pub there that keeps a month-old keg of Bass, overgassed, and does a nice pork pie, or it might be jellied eel, I can never tell.

Drinks on me.

Date: 2010/04/01 10:51:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And, incidentally, not that I'm one to complain BUT I thought my

"use a sole, save an oyster"

comment was subtle, witty and just plain damned clever.  I laughed myself to sleep, printed it out and framed it for future mirth.

Yet POTW went to the comment that said "balls!"

No justice, I tell you, no justice.

Date: 2010/04/01 14:08:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill

McCormick's Rule clearly states that a player may traverse multiple stations in a single turn if on foot in inclement weather provided the player neither breaks down and cries nor asks for direction, which, as a Real Man I am genetically incapable of either.

But, ha and double ha, the joke's on you as I wend my way to

London Bridge

which falls down less after two pints than Louis!

Date: 2010/04/01 16:13:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nanny, nanny boo boo!

Tufnell Park


East Finchley, too!

Date: 2010/04/01 19:12:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Every player in the quorum must drink at least a pint of Bud Light

Alas, my religion prohibits me from eating that part of an animal, er, drink that baramin of brew.

Chiswick Park

where I shall be forced to spend a night in meditation at the Old Packhorse over a pint or 6 of Fuller's ESB.

Date: 2010/04/02 14:24:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm at a loss for words!

I think I'll go down to the Bakerloo and breathe fumes for the rest of the afternoon.


Date: 2010/04/04 23:43:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Since no one has even tried to guess, I will postpone giving out the answer.

Hint Number 1.

While you're trying to figure out H#1, decode this


Date: 2010/04/06 23:01:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Paul Nelson Day!

Here's a blast from the past:

Paul A. Nelson | March 29, 2004 6:08 AM

Quick note – I’m drafting an omnibus reply (to points raised here and in Shalizi’s commentary), with title and epigraph from a Rolling Stones song. I’ll post it tomorrow.

That was the Paul Nelson promising a reply to questions about the genetics of some guy named Otto.

Basically, Paul said, "Take my wife.  Please!" and promised to have better material in the morning, er, after the weekend, rather, in a couple of weeks or years or so.

Yesterday Paul published the latest and greatest on Evo Whine and Dyne amounting to the following:

Warning!  New material follows from Paul Nelson -

Take my wife.  Please!

Yes, that's it after six years.  I think Paul's after Dembski's record of having done nothing in 10 years or maybe he's going for the gold standard of Behe and 25 years.

Go, Paul, go!  We're all pulling for you, although so far you've done a great job of pulling it yourself.

Date: 2010/04/07 20:25:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paul Nelson sez:

Like most ID theorists with a background in evolutionary theory, I’m as much — probably more, in fact, given the embryonic state of ID theory — a student of evolution.

John McCain sez:

I am not a maverick.  I've never been a maverick.

Both statements are so mind-numbingly, transparently stupid attempts to rewrite history that you'd think they were written by Casey Luskin!

Pay attention, TP.  If you want to be a True Bullshit artist you have no better mentor than our Paul.

Congratulations, Paul, you have certainly piled it higher and deeper!

Date: 2010/04/08 08:25:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In Bizarro World log and minus log are the same thing.

Just fold the x-axis, then the y-axis and you'll get the point.

p.s.  I'm in the running for Alter Boy of Information Science.

Date: 2010/04/08 08:35:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
On UD our Casey wrote:

Similarly, Josh charged that Bill Dembski has been “reduced to rewriting and analyzing programs originally written in 1980’s.” I’m not sure exactly what that means,

My bolding.  "I'm not sure exactly what that means."  Casey writes.


On Evo Whine and Slime JUST TODAY the same Casey (or is it the Evil Casey??) writes:

A new peer-reviewed paper continues the work published by William Dembski, Robert Marks, and others affiliated with the Evolutionary Informatics Lab. (Check out their new revamped website at The authors argue that Richard Dawkins’ “METHINKSITISLIKEAWEASEL” evolutionary algorithm starts off with large amounts of active information—information intelligently inserted by the programmer to aid the search. This paper covers all of the known claims of operation of the WEASEL algorithm and shows that in all cases, active information is used.

Psssssssssssss!  Casey!  Yo, dude, the program you talked out of your ass about the other day is THIS program, by Dawkins, you talked out of your ass about TODAY!!!

Doesn't your left ass communicate with your right ass?

Date: 2010/04/09 16:00:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I got a note from Future Casey about the article he's going to post on his academically censored, locked-down, no comments permitted, no dissenting views permitted, no nothing no how permitted website about how Michael Zimmerman committed the following egregious errors:

1. misrepresented the Disco Tute
2. misrepresented "intelligent design"
3. conflated "intelligent design" with unScientific Biblical Kreationism
4. used ad hominid attacks on Casey calling him an "attorney"
5. incorrectly construed the DI as a "right wing biblical think tank" rather than a "right wing Biblical think tank"
6. was mean, insulting and uncivil
7. built strawmen out of canards
8. unfairly references the Wedge "oh, what, that old thing?" Document

Squeaks to commence in three, two, one ...

Date: 2010/04/13 08:48:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'll already have this response ready to copy and paste.

It's what you do (only) best, FL.

Thinking, not so much.

Date: 2010/04/13 15:52:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FL, aka Frontal Lobotomy wrote:

(2) Dembski never said that "ID is religious."  He has not retracted his claim that ID is a scientific hypothesis.

Willie Dembski wrote this:

“Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John’s Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory.”

Doc Bill wrote:

FL is a complete moron.  Dog bites man.  Film at 11.

Date: 2010/04/13 18:20:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I know this is more futile than resisting the Borg, but here goes.  One.  More.  Time.

Flaming Moron, er, Lunatic wrote:

Dembski never said that "ID is religious."

Dembski wrote, undisputed by Fl-Lu:

“Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John’s Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory.”

Let me parse this for you -

ID = Intelligent design
is = is
religious = just the Logos theology of John's Gospel
. = restated in the idiom of information theory.

Substituting yields:  ID is religious.

I'm right, FL, right?

Date: 2010/04/14 08:33:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Still at the Old Packhorse, I regained consciousness, discovered it was Wednesday and thought, "Not again."

I need a holiday so I'm going south where there are palm trees.

Kew Gardens.

Date: 2010/04/15 11:45:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, AFDave again!

Who knew that was the central line of his thesis?

Date: 2010/04/15 15:46:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FL!

ID is religious, right?  Dembski said so.

You agree with that don't you?

I'd like you to tell us you agree with Dembski on this so we can move on.

Pretty please with a trilobite on top?

Date: 2010/04/15 20:52:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Central line?"  Get it?  Play on words.  Pun.  Louis, where are you?

Seriously, I don't know why I continue to cast perls before sWine.

Once again I'm forced to drown my sorrows at the Merrie Go Downe on Gloucester Road.


Gloucester Road

Drinks on me.  Arrows at 8.

Date: 2010/04/15 23:06:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, FL, we weren't talking about the "definition" of ID, we were talking about what ID is.  Remember?  I know it's tough with the pinhead brain of yours.

It's like this.

A general definition of evolution would be "change over time."

Is evolution religious?  No.

A general definition of ID would be "some things in biology are best explained by an intelligent agent."

Is ID religious?  Yes.

Who says so?  Dembski, among others.  Also, Meyer, Behe, Wells, Johnson, West, Crowther, Austin, Wise, Ham and a host of others.

Remember, Dembski said "ID is religious."

You agree with that, right?  You provided the quote!

Just say yes.  You'll feel better.

(won't be any smarter or more honest, but you'll feel better.  trust me.)

Date: 2010/04/16 10:48:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
bjray wrote:

we know (today) that the cell has plenty of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level.

"We" know, do "we?"

PLENTY of IC systems at the cellular level.

Really, "we" know this, do "we."

OK, I'm game.  List 100 of them.  Should be a piece of cake given "we" know there are plenty.

Tell you what, since I'm a nice guy, list 50 and just point me to a reference where 50 more are documented.  Save you the typing.

Date: 2010/04/17 15:58:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
wtf is a "Traditional Sunday Lunch", anyway?

Six pints and a pork pie.

Wif me Mum, of course!

Date: 2010/04/18 21:41:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Always wanted to go here because the first hundred times I saw the name I thought it was "Pervivale."

Alas, Perivale.

Date: 2010/04/23 11:49:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hello BJ, welcome back!

Let's change the subject and talk about Moral Theology.  You know about Moral Theology, don't you?

Do you know what the #2 book on Moral Theology is on Amazon dot Com?


Here's a hint:  small book, 67 pages, EZ 2 Read.

Hardcover: 67 pages
Publisher: Princeton University Press; 1 edition (January 10, 2005)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 0691122946
ISBN-13: 978-0691122946
Product Dimensions: 6.1 x 4.1 x 0.5 inches

It's called "On Bullshit" by Princeton professor of philosophy Harry Frankfurt.  It's only 10 bucks.  I suggest you get a copy.  It's a serious book that focuses on the difference between bullshit and lying, and the moral and ethical considerations therein.

Having read the book myself and since I'm an expert on the subject I can declare with confidence that you, BJ, are a bullshitter, although you have a lot to learn.

You wrote in your own words "we know (today) that the cell has plenty of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level."

You wrote that although you have no clue whatsoever what "we" know.  That's what a bullshitter does.  He throws out some bullshit hoping that his audience doesn't recognize it as bullshit.  Maybe they think it's a bouquet of roses which by any other name smells as sweet.

But, I called you on your bullshit and asked you for a list of those systems.  You ignored me, which hurt.  That wasn't nice.  I would argue that it was not moral of you to leave me hanging like that.

Now, a better bullshitter would have tried to throw me off the scent by tossing out a bogus reference with something like

"Check out Appendix D of Protozoology by Kudo.  Long list."

It would be a good bet that a random person would not have that particular book (however, it's on MY bookshelf!) to discover that you were tossing more bullshit on your original pile.  You see, a good bullshitter knows how to mix bullshit and fact in just the right proportion that the audience is never too sure to believe it or not, and often they err on the nice side;  give the benefit of a doubt.

Alas, BJ, what you have spread on this site is 100% Grade A bullshit, uncut by fact.

This is the learning point and I hope you take it to heart.  Even an Expert Bullshitter who knows sod all about a subject will not ply his trade on a forum populated by subject experts and Field Marshal grade Bullshitters.  No percentage in that.  Thus, to date all of your bullshit has been cut to ribbons;  your score is zero.

All is not lost, however.  You have a choice.  Do you gather your losses and content yourself to hang around bible forums where your bullshit is Oh So Rosey, or do you take this golden opportunity, drop the guise, engage in honest dialog and actually learn something?

What's it going to be?

Date: 2010/04/25 14:41:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We knew it would happen right from the very start.  How many times (HOW MANY???) have creationists come to a scientific forum and followed these steps?  BJRAY is no exception, right down the line.

Thank you, bj, for visiting us.  You win a prize!

Here it is:

Lifetime of Ignorance

Now, you have two!  Let's follow the steps using bj's own words, shall we!

Step 1:  Polite introduction and desire to learn.

First, I would like start off by offering my gratitude for the place to come and offer up questions in regards to, well, Dr. Dembski for one (since you seem to have such an extensive knowledge about him); and secondly about science and evolutionary theory (assuming the later are the types of questions you are seeking?)

Step 2:  Polite responses and welcome.  This one from the very nice Reed who wouldn't say "shit" if he had a mouthful.

Your premise is incorrect. Science accepts new data all the time, and scientific data that challenged current theories of evolution would have no problem. There are plenty of acrimonious disputes in real science, but eventually the most useful models prevail. If ID produced a more useful model than evolution, it (or whatever part made it useful) would eventually be accepted... unfortunately for ID proponents, ID currently doesn't produce any useful model of anything. Dressing "goddidit" up in some sciencey sounding jargon doesn't provide any useful insight.

Step 3:  A hearty thanks from bj and a little pause to do some book learning'.

On a side note, I have been reading up on the links you posted as well (thanks for getting me up to speed). Also, Elsberry, thanks for your thorough response.

Oops!  We have an unexpected jump to Step 6 as bjray writes:

In due time (ie: this weekend). It just so happens that I have a plethora of things to attend to including: class reading/assignments that are due soon (the syllabus you have is only 1 of my classes), the joys of life outside of the classroom, and college basketball of course. But have no fear, I will post again.

p.s.  glad to learn, bj,  that you're the only one on the planet with things to do.

Step 4: The offensive directly out of the Creationist Playbook.  Let the games begin!  First we have a classic "I don't know anything about ID, even though I could ask my professor, Dr. Dr., who is right over there."  Second, is the bullshit about what "we" know and don't know about the Theory of Evolution because bj's just about to change the subject.

So where were we...I think it was something along the lines of people expressing their honest feelings about Dembski and also wanting proof for how to calculate CSI for things.

Well, unfortunately, I can offer you no good advice on how to calculate such readings of an object using his CSI theory (if you will). Thing is, I have not in my spare time (the little there is), nor as a part of class, actually read his work on CSI.

And …
Another thing I'm working on trying to understand from my evolutionary friends is their rationale for recent developments in molecular biology.

Yeah, you read that correctly.  Molecular Biology.  From a guy with, my guess, a C in high school chemistry.

And …
What I'm interested in is going back to Darwin and his thought of evolution. For instance, what was his purpose in thinking up his theory of evolution (and survival of the fittest)?

Sure, bj, what you're interested in can be found with a 5-minute Google search but you're oh so confused!  Yeah, why did Darwin spend all that time "thinking up his theory of evolution" when he could have been perfecting the Margarita?

Step 5:  barrage of rebuttals, mockery and resignation (and indignation) that "here we go again with a creationist."

fnxtr sums it up nicely:

So many misconceptions, so little time.
I leave the fisking to the pros.

Fisking was done directly and politely by cubist and Wes.  Thanks for taking the time.

Step 6:  Ignoring of replies, more creationist talking points and finally "too busy to reply" followed by a flounce.

I'm not an expert in any of the areas mentioned thus far in this discussion. However, it does not mean that I do not have an idea of what I am talking about.

Right, not knowing what one is talking about has never stopped a creationist from talking about it.  Harry Frankfurt defines this as "bullshitting."

Pull on the boots, boys, 'cause here she comes!  Watch out for falling species and C-14 radiation!  I call these disjointed quotes the Best of BJ.

Abandon all Learning and Knowledge ye who pass here!


It would seem to me that evolution does not stand to every "evidence" it provides.

I'm saying is that evolution does not do all that you say and praise it for.

Matter a fact, I already knew that evolutionary proponents had written material attempting to explain their side. It's interesting stuff.

(and cue the flounce)

All right, for starters. I cannot for the sake of my own time respond to everyone one of your questions or comments.

I am informed about the difference between evolution, abiogenesis and big bang. While maybe all can be considered different “scientific enterprises”, they all have at least one thing in common: Evolutionary theory sprinkled about them.

The explanation of morality (previously mentioned by me as self-preservation, albeit the latter is probably considered a subset of the former) by evolution is incomplete, that’s why I have a problem with it.

I can show how evolution has gotten at least two things wrong. 1) Name for me anything that you (or anyone) has ever seen actually evolve from one species to another? (Now you say, we haven't, it takes millions/billions of years for anything to evolve.) 2) Carbon dating. Accurate only to a few thousand years, as scientists have calculated. So, when said dinosaur bones were carbon dated and not linked to the millions of years evolutionists preconceived, eh, throw out the carbon dating; doesn't fit our theory.

What I am saying is that God created the world and everything in it (including all that we know..and don't know about science, etc..)

I'm sorry to point out, but you're mistaken that evolution has not stood up to every evidence. It has stood up to every evidence that it promotes, yes, of course, why wouldn't it. But it throws out the evidence that does not support it.

And just so you know, as long as their is breath in my lungs, if my child's school board attempts to not teach weaknesses of any side, especially evolution (why because it is the primary scientific theory taught, not just one I randomly chose to "pick on"). Then I'll teach them myself.

BTW, your morality citations do not prove anything but that scientists have written on the matter.

Here is my source for morality.
The Holy Bible, Romans 1 vs. 18 - 21

I think we're close to an Official Flounce.  We've had the talking points and the standard creationist hissy fit about how unfair we are.  Finally, abandoning everything presented, resorting to bible quotes as "proof" and there's no going back.  Flounce Ahoy!  

And creationists wonder why we laugh at them.

Date: 2010/04/26 15:42:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Even me, a layman so down the scale I could be an
amoeba with a degree in geoplastics, can understand c14 and other radioactive means of dating..

I once overheard an ex-girlfriend describing me as "radioactive."

It was only much later in life I discovered that it wasn't a superpower.

Date: 2010/04/26 17:22:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seems that my only alternative out of Pervivale is to sashay over to


also known as Boobquake East.

Date: 2010/04/30 12:16:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Only rigor mortis.

Date: 2010/04/30 12:59:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I understand Dr. Bill is on it, just as soon as he finishes his CSI calcs.

I just finished my CSI calculations for a bowling ball, however, I'm still in the process of decoding the computer output.

Here's the raw feed:  BR-549 and King's Cross

I don't know what this means, but I'm working on it.  More later.

Date: 2010/05/06 15:09:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We all know how it went down.

BJ sat down with Dr. Dr. , went through the notes and laughed and laughed.

Ha ha!  How predictable are the Evilutionists!  See how they resort to mockery.  See how they put forth their "just so" stories.  See how they are uncivil, basing their pitiful dialog on short, Anglo-Saxon words.  Zounds, what a pack of dogs, nay, curs they be!

You gets an "A" BJ now let us pray.

OK, next chew toy, please.

Date: 2010/05/06 19:47:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
7,000 words and zero content?

Pish posh, FL does that in his lunch hour!

Piker.  He'd earn a "C" in my class.

Date: 2010/05/19 18:53:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
i dun haz PhD (subject to minor corrections)
Now I shall get very drunk.

Wasn't it cool when they took you into the basement and inducted you into the Worldwide Conspiracy?  Next, I'd advise you to join the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma.  The dues are cheap but so is the booze.

 Doc Bill

Date: 2010/05/20 19:25:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy B(urp)thday!

I dranks your beer to save u the calories.

U'll thank me in the morning.


Date: 2010/05/27 20:01:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What's the deal with Corny Hunter posting so many articles at UD?  Is he the Guest Tard of the Month?  My stars but is he ever a scientifically illiterate nimrod.

In my experience there are creationists who are genuinely stupid or willfully ignorant.  There are creationists who enjoy picking a fight just for the fun of it.  And there are creationists who are mentally ill.

Corny seems to be neither stupid nor mean, but he sure howls at the moon.

Date: 2010/05/30 15:46:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ever the Christian gentleman, Dembski refers to the researchers as a "rogue's gallery."

Maybe he meant "rouge" gallery because they are obviously communist.

It would be interesting to keep that photo and tag the Nobel laureates in 10-20 years.

Date: 2010/06/06 11:47:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Appropriate for D-Day, Steve Matheson has dropped Da Bomb on Stevie Meyer and the Disco Tute.

Steve's Blog

Nothing that hasn't been said before in one forum or another, but he kicked the ant hill pretty hard.

Fun and games to follow, no doubt!

Date: 2010/06/09 21:48:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at the Dishonesty Institutes "website" our intrepid Luskin wannabe, Anika "The Tank" Smith writes an article for Dr. Dougie Axe, who, apparently can't write for himself, defending Axe's "work."

Damn, it's hard writing about the Dishonesty Institute because you have to put so many words in quotes!  Otherwise you'd think they have a real website and did real work.

Hey, Axe, you moron, how's it feel having your "research" written up by The Tank?  Whazzamatta, weasel got your tongue???

Date: 2010/06/09 22:16:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, my bad, a thousand apologies!  

I misrepresented, misconstrued and conflated DOCTOR Douglas Axe's "argument" with some sort of fiction reported by Anika "The Tank" Smith.

My bad.

Actually, Axe responded at the non-peer reviewed, closed, creationist propaganda website from the BioIlogic institute who's URL I seem to have lost.

Anyway, Axe responds from the echo chamber up there in Seattle something like he has a PC running Windows 3.1 and it crashed and therefore Darwin screwed nutria, or something like that.

I can't figure it out even though I have 4 PhD's for which I paid a pretty penny.

(Actually, I paid for 3 and the other I stole from Louis.)

Date: 2010/06/23 18:33:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It always cracks me up when creationists back up their arguments by citing other creationists.

The banana was designed to be grasped by the human hand. (1)

1.  Comfort, R, J. Graspology Rev., 2002, Vol. 2, Issue 8, pp 125-129.

Date: 2010/06/30 08:18:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
McLatch is, apparently, a respected scientist in the UK.

Here's his profile.

Probably has degrees in mathematics, history, philosophy, physics, chemistry, cooking and cosmotology, soon to be a Senior Jolly Old Fellow at the Disco Tute.

Works out of the Luskin Institute for Higher Learning Tyre Care and Massage Salon, Ltd., UK branch, Lower Uppington, Wilts, BR 549.

Date: 2010/07/01 18:35:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The DI will be squawking about this in a few days, after they find someone to read it to them.

New Fossilzs in teh Pre-Pre-Pre-Cambrian.

Just like EVERY discovery, the DI will pooh-pooh it having pooed their pants.  Oh, noez, teh fozzilz!

The DI morons are more predictable than the MET!

Date: 2010/07/06 08:33:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My personal favorite is chocolate.

Date: 2010/07/06 20:02:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I have deer with a 3 handicap on the 14th green.

Date: 2010/07/09 10:55:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Robert Palpatine Crowther crows over a video of creationist Stephen Meyer answering the question "Is intelligent design creationism ™  science?"

Sort of like asking Kent Hovind "Is tax evasion legal?"

Or asking Casey Luskin "Does plucking a unibrow make you look less like a Bulgarian farm wife?"  (apologies to BFW's)

It's difficult to watch the video of little Stevie; so much whine and cheese.

Date: 2010/07/09 17:52:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
To add injury to insult, in Little Stevie's Video, the soundtrack is like a Vince Guaraldi piano riff.

Do you think Stevie is channeling Charlie Brown?

"Nobody likes me, Snoopy.  I'm just a big loser.  At least you're my friend, Snoopy, a loyal dog.  Right, Snoopy?"

(looks around and sees Snoopy getting hired by the Venter Institute.)


Date: 2010/07/11 17:48:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That's why YOU'RE an atheist, Louis, and I am the Chosen One.

Date: 2010/07/16 07:43:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I started Valentine's "On the Origin of Phyla" about a month ago.

I'm on page vii.

Should be finished when there are no more phyla to observe.

Date: 2010/07/16 08:02:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've often wondered if Corny and Cordova are the same person.

On the thread "Peter" is discussing the Nature of Science because that's what creationists do.  I must say, his closing argument is irrefutable.  Why didn't we see this before??

No evidence so you have to resort to ad hominens. How typical of a person who's words are hollow. Yell louder and maybe you can drown out the truth. Face it, your secular worldview is unsupportable. Try as you might, you can not successfully argue that there is no God because in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Last one out turn off the lights and lock the lab door!  We're done.

Date: 2010/07/16 10:55:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Are we all familiar with Douglas Adams' "B Ark?"

I used to tell my kids that they could study and learn, or ship out on the B Ark.

Date: 2010/07/16 15:06:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've only had one sock at UD, the incredibly subtle Charles1859.

I made two comments before I got banninated.  One was on the definition of ID which the posters there couldn't seem to agree on, so I pasted it from the DI website.  That raised a stink because I was "mocking."  Yeah, using their own definition.

The other was a quote mine I corrected and found myself "no longer with us."

It's truly an insane asylum over there and it might be interesting for someone studying mental illness and sociopathic behavior.

Date: 2010/07/19 18:23:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
BTW, why can't Sal mention Nature without putting "the prestigious scientific journal" or even "world's most prestigious scientific journal" in front of it.

Bad case of Credential Inflation.

Poor Sal.  His shortcomings are apparent even if he doesn't swim in cold water.

Date: 2010/07/21 11:12:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Should that be "The Clive is So, Stupid Biologos Thread?"

Srsly, Biologos is like a Disney version of UD, isn't it?

Date: 2010/08/20 16:00:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I often get sticky toffee pudding on the other hand.

BTW, is this a mock mock?

Date: 2010/08/20 18:17:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I checked out Saboe's site and he's just another YEC huckster.  

Nothing new here.

He knows enough about Dawkin's example program to build a field of straw men to burn.

I don't even need him here to mock him as in IDiot.  He doesn't know anything about web design, either.

And he probably wears dorky shoes.  And drinks beer out of a mug.  Typical, I say, typical!

South Kensington.  I need a museum fix.

Date: 2010/08/21 10:42:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Tut tut sir.  There is a separate Mornington Crescent thread for that sort of thing.

Hey, Seversky started it!  (and, yes, if he jumped off a cliff so would I.)

If anybody's looking for me I'm at the Science Museum, in the Steam Room looking at pistons with Louis.

Date: 2010/08/21 19:26:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Just got in to Paddington from Slough.  The 7:05 was late due to "leaves on the points" or something like that.

Waiting a freaking HOUR for the train to Green Park and just realized ...

Date: 2010/08/31 18:01:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Like an inverse-whale, rising to the surface to fart, our favorite pudgy toy, Paul Nelson, has been sighted.

Over at Evo Whine and Snooze, our Nelson poots forth the following:

One could run an entire graduate philosophy of science seminar, exploring the many implications of Clarke's Third Law. In fact, I may do that some day soon.

"I may do that some day soon."

How many times have we heard that Nelson old fruit, how many?

I may write my monograph.  I may write a book.  I may do this.  I may do that.

Or, I may just sink back into the primordial ooze and take a nap.  More like it, I suspect.

Date: 2010/09/10 11:10:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That was my favorite hit TV science show of the 60's:

The Atoms Family

Date: 2010/09/17 21:32:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ha, Kevin Zero Eleven and honesty.

Remember how long it took him to admit that Sternberg wasn't actually expelled?  Like, duh, dude!  It's a freaking public record!

It must really suck deriving all your revenue from christian morons.  And, they're cheap bastards to boot!  Double suck, eh, Kev!

(p.s. Kev, sympathy factor less than zero.)

Date: 2010/09/22 22:09:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at Evo Whine and Sleeze, Anika "The Tank" Smith reports breathlessly:

Tomorrow night four new arguments against Darwin's theory will be revealed before an audience at Southern Methodist University. Scientists from Discovery Institute and Biologic Institute are already heading down to Dallas for the event, where they'll present new evidence against Darwinian evolution after a free screening of the film Darwin's Dilemma.

Sponsored by the SMU Victory Campus Ministries (who else?)

I'm sure the World's Press will be there at SMU tomorrow night to record this momentous event.

New Evidence Against Darwinian Evolution!

Date: 2010/09/23 11:07:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Philistines, all of you!

It's not just horseshit, it's NEW and IMPROVED horseshit.

Fresh!  Right out of the horse's mouth or, in the case of Meyer, the south end.

Just wait, you'll see!

Date: 2010/09/24 13:34:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not much word, yet, from the DI Revival Pray-in at SMU last night.

One surprise, though, Paul Nelson surfaced from the depths to burble on about now evolution is improbable, based on his vast research experience, no doubt.  I'm sure Paul will write up a summary of his thoughts Real Soon Now ™ .

Fireworks rained out again.  Darn.

Date: 2010/09/30 12:51:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I found  THIS at Beliefnet, believe it or not, and it seems to be a reasonable summary of the "argument" going on over at Amazon.

Meyer has to know his entire thesis of Too Complex Therefore Oogity Boogity was wrong from the outset because the research and the smoking gun, p-transferase, were right there in front of him.

Pay no attention to that RNA, er, man, behind the curtain!  Nice one, Meyer.

Date: 2010/10/01 18:10:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, I got the point from the get go.  What I provided for the moron on Amazon was more hints.

I thought my musical analogy was particularly nifty since most analogies involve sports or cars.  However, I think the moron knows the jig is up.  He's already talking about having to flounce because his hair needs washing.  Typical response for the defeated.

Well done, all, for hammering on one point.  Creationists hate that.  However, never, never let them off the mat.  Keep them on subject and eventually they will run away.

Date: 2010/10/01 18:48:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sorry to spoil your fun, Jam, but Richard has flounced.  Gone missing.  Taken a kip.  AWOL.

Could it be my musical analogy?  If so I'll use it more!!

Date: 2010/10/06 00:26:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dawkins spoke in Houston tonight and I was there only >this< far from the Dawk.

He's still quite lucid I'm glad to say!

He got a big laugh after describing a hypothetical radiation of animals from Noah's Ark, then apologized for using "a sledgehammer to crack such a small, fragile nut."

I need to make a ringtone of that.

Date: 2010/10/22 11:52:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Reminds me of breakfasts me Mum used to make.

Yum, kippers!

Date: 2010/10/25 00:15:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm actually rather sympathetic to WmAD here - he's been put in a position where he's been asked to conform,

Actually he put himself there by his own academic conduct.  The irony is that he's been hoist by the same "academic freedom" petard scam he perpetrated.  How's the "academic freedom" down there in Waterlooville, Billy boy?

Date: 2010/10/29 18:57:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kepler.  You mean Dick?

Date: 2010/11/03 08:29:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Whatever. He stands as a testimonial that there are people out there who are so calcified in their thinking that no evidence, no argument, no data, no documentation, not even written proof of their own illogic and hypocrisy, will convince them that they are wrong.

And, thus, you describe FL, FTK, Behe, Dembski, Wells, Nelson, Meyer and so on.

Behe had to be taken to the mat publicly by grad student (never mess with her!) Abbie Smith before he would admit he "overlooked" data on Vpu in his book Edge of Whatever.

At least Kevin XI admitted he lied about Sternberg getting fired by the Smithsonian when he didn't even work for the Smithsonian.

Rather than engage in discussion, creationists run away, The Flounce, when backed into a corner.  How many times have we seen that around here, a thousand?  That's why it's so maddening.  These are not reasonable people.

Date: 2010/11/04 10:55:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Good grief!  Joe "Ice is Not Water" G is arguing that "one word sentences," like "Go!" are not sentences.

Is there a pathological mental condition, besides creationist fuckwit, that a person can never, ever be wrong?

Something like "FL Syndrome."

How does a person like this get through the day?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Date: 2010/11/04 11:59:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements).

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love.

Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions).

Rarely acknowledges mistakes and/or imperfections.

Requires excessive admiration.

Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations.

Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends.

Lacks empathy: is unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.

Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.

Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitude.

(copied from Wikipedia, link above)

Not changing the subject too much, but which of these symptoms does Dembski NOT display?

I am not a doctor, although I play one in my house, but Total Lack of Humor ought to be in the list!

Date: 2010/11/04 12:41:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Enh. Worth a shot.  It's been chewtoy-deficient 'round here.

Exactly!  I've been reduced to reading 4-year old FTK threads for amusement.

How do you like that brace o' heron?

Oops, wrong thread!

Date: 2010/11/04 18:28:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Tloch, everybody knows Portuguese is a mixture of port and geese!

Date: 2010/11/04 19:57:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Joe G -

Seriously, dude, there's a difference between ice and water?

You are a moron.

Let me put it another way.  I have a PhD in chemistry which is really, really hard and I am smart.  You are an uncredentialed moron which is really, really easy and you are stupid.

IOW, there's a difference.

But, hey, Joe G, in terms of being a stupid moron you're Number One!  You're Number One!  So, I guess, you win!

Date: 2010/11/05 16:51:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Ice G, you comin' out wid a rap video, yo?

Hey, Ice G, how many verbs in

"    This
 no  verb."

Hey, Ice G, how come a "carriage return" works on my laptop and there's no carriage?

Date: 2010/11/11 13:13:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy orbit, Louis.

And, now, the famous video of Doc Bill and Louis at Down House.*

The Video

*Arden's mum was unavailable due to a previously scheduled, um, "appointment."

Date: 2010/11/11 22:04:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I loved my favorite local, the Princess of Wales, which didn't serve half pints.

Sorry, Gov, all the h'pint mugs are in the wash.

Pity that.  Had to down pints instead.  Birthday or not.

Date: 2010/11/13 19:17:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think Uncle Walt has been using his hydroplate to cook up some powerful "stuff" if you get my drift, continentally speaking, that is.

Get help, Walt.

Date: 2010/11/14 12:57:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
PaV: I wonder if the Darwinists like to use students to carry their water: it eliminates the need to put their reputation on the line in any confrontation with Behe, and, additionally, should the student prevail then it would be an instance where some ‘wet behind the ears’ student knew more than one of the key propenents of ID. They can’t resist this. But it strikes me as rather cowardly.

PaV and BornAgain then go on to engage in mutual masturbation, not a pretty sight!

PaV is quite the coward.  Anybody knows that grad students are totally on top of their game.  I wouldn't call a grad student "wet behind the ears."  We all know what really happened to Behe.  The moron, Behe, forgot to disable comments on his Amazon blog and before he could close the barn door all sorts of people started hacking at his thesis.

Including our very own ERV who beat Behe to a pulp with a vpu that Behe denied existed but was illustrated right there in his book!  Behe ermed-ummed-ahhed his way to a face-saving retreat by admitting that perhaps he "overlooked" that teeny-tiny morsel that just happened to blow his entire thesis out of the water.

ERV has more scientific chops than Behe could even wet-dream of and he knows it.  She's also not afraid to use her Hitori Hanzo in the exquisite art of slice and dice.

Date: 2010/11/14 15:42:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think I was Number 1  !

I'm Number 1!  I'm Number 1!

Date: 2010/11/15 16:31:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Luskin had a gerbgasm over the "fact" that the California Science Center is a GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATION and therefor, ergo and lorum ipsum it was both a violation of Free Speech ™ and viewpoint discrimination to boot.

Both are bad, bad things but Especially Bad if done by a GOVERNMENT INSTITUTION.

Ahem, however, the moluskito failed to realize that the actual contract was between the AFA and the CSC Foundation, a private organization whose purpose was twofold:  raise private money for the CSC, and keep the CSC isolated from the kind of bullshit activities the DI specializes in.

Oopsie, can we say "My lawsuit fell apart and I can't get it up."

Date: 2010/11/15 19:15:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Cross Complaint lays it out in wonderful detail.  So refreshing to see plain English instead of DI weaselish.

Joe Peterson of the AFA, the organization that contracted the CSC Foundation to show the film, wrote in an email:

Whomever at (sic) wrote the copy on the Discovery Institutes press releases should have his head examined ... I thought the problem was buried in the text of the documents ... NOT THE HEADLINES.  Talk about waving a red flag in front of a bull.  It seems like they were deliberately trying to screw this up!!!

Well, when you let the jinni out of the bottle, as Crowther put it, you tend to screw things up.

In the other legal documents available on the NCSE website is one that refers to dismissing the lawsuit because of "unclean hands."  IANAL, but that appears to imply that the DI screwed the pooch ... in public!

Date: 2010/11/19 11:25:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Boss:  I'm not paying you to watch some stupid debate on the Internet.

Me:  Yes, you are!  Ha! And double ha!

(That's how I'd treat my boss if I had one.)

The show is worth watching all the way through the closing prayer which was an appeal to God to erase Hitchens' words to the children to "Think for Yourselves."

Hitch spoke from memory, constructing arguments and supporting them with quotes and examples on the fly.

Dembski read, or tried to read, a prepared text.

That said, because of the audience, comprised mostly of 13 and 14-year old Christian private school students, brainwashed for 13-14 years, the dialogue could be summarized thus:

Hitchens:  I have demolished deftly your argument.


Dembski:  Yes, you have but, ha ha,  I had no argument and Jesus loves me anyway!

(rousing applause, cheers, singing, laughter, chanting - PTL!  PTL!  PTL!  Goooooooooooooo Jesus!)

Date: 2010/11/19 21:19:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've been reading Mikey Behe's little whine over at Evo Snooze and is it only me or is Mikey starting to sound like JAD.

Hey, you evotards!  Get off my lawn!  How do you like them dingleberries?

It could be that Behe, like JAD, hasn't done science for so long that his imagination and reality have merged.  You showed 'em, Mikey, you was a real contendah!

Date: 2010/11/20 11:15:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I went over to the Slum to see what the tenants thought about the Dembski/Hitchens rumble.

Only 13 comments, so far, and 6 by BatShitCrazy.

You would have thought that a debate between Their Boy and one of the most gifted intellects of the 21st Century (so far) would have generated a little more discussion.

After all, Dr. Dr. proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, or the shadow of an eclipse on Jupiter, both the existence of God and that God is Good.  (Just slipped that extra 'o' right in there!)

But, meh, nothing.  What's wrong with those guys?

Date: 2010/11/20 11:31:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Go to Dillards!

Hey, check this out.  Isn't this the same shirt and tie that Dembski wore to the Hitchens debate?

Does Dr. Dr. only have one tie?

p.s.  Kwazy Kiwi provided a nice recent photo of our favorite Attack Gerbil.

Date: 2010/11/20 21:06:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My back yard is full of frolicking college students.

Long story.

Date: 2010/11/22 17:54:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Video is Back!

This is Part 10 of 10 which includes Hitchens' conclusion and the infamous Prayer.  Oh, we are so confused, OH Lord ...

So sad we don't have All The Answers ™ .

Date: 2010/11/22 21:03:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm working on downloading all 10 parts of the debate in mp4 format.

If Louis had a decent computer I'm sure he'd do it.

Date: 2010/11/22 21:37:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've been watching Hitchens over and over and he was brilliant.  I will cherish these clips.

What he doesn't mention about Mother Theresa, and he could have, is that she was an atheist.  The final 50 years of her life were godless.  Who would believe that?  Well she, MT, fricking wrote it!

Still, a masterful display.  More to download...

Date: 2010/11/23 08:30:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You have massively overestimated my Caring Quotient regarding this matter. ;-)


I felt something last night.  That wasn't it???

Date: 2010/12/01 09:00:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is that some kind of quaint British euphemism?

On the Sandwalk at Down House there's a little bench covered by a domed trellis.  I have a picture of Louis and me sitting there.  You may have heard of it:

Two men, one cupola.

Date: 2010/12/06 08:57:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mmmmmmm, half-shaved Ceiling Cat ...

Date: 2010/12/06 17:44:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think you have to be an FDA Approved Grade A Jackass to be a creationist.

Joe G claimed to be an "expert" in baraminology, whatever that is, but doesn't know that ice is water or that two of something is more than one of something or that the null set is a set.

Actually, Joe G proves creationism because something this stupid couldn't evolve.  

I share no DNA with this life form.  Srsly.

Date: 2010/12/07 17:40:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
In case ya hazn't noticed, ole Joe switches to the Good Ole Boy spellin' when he knows he been out gunned, out run and out done.

He's all blah, blah, blah until he's in the corner, and he KNOWS he's in the corner, then out comes the Good Ole Boy.

Ya see tha copy number you evilutionists consider extra information is a silent number like the "f" in enough.  Simple, ya see?

Oh, the other guy that does that is FL.  Come to think of it, has anyone seen JoeG and FL in the same place at the same time???  Could it be ...

Date: 2010/12/07 17:53:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Five too many teef for Ole JoeG.

Date: 2010/12/10 09:37:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Dr. Baramin G, how many Kinds are there?  Is there a difference between kind and Kind?

How about ice and water?  One Kind, Two Kinds or All Kinds?

If Spock was half-Human was he really "Out of his Vulcan kind?"

Inquiring kinds want to know.

Kind regards,

Date: 2010/12/10 11:20:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 10 2010,09:40)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 10 2010,09:37)
Hey, Dr. Baramin G, how many Kinds are there?  Is there a difference between kind and Kind?

How about ice and water?  One Kind, Two Kinds or All Kinds?

If Spock was half-Human was he really "Out of his Vulcan kind?"

Inquiring kinds want to know.

Kind regards,

Science- determining how many Kinds there were is the role of science.

When Linne was searching for that answer and came up with binomial nomenclature, was he doing science?

Yes ice and water are still two different things.

Thank you Dr. Baramin G for he Crystal Ice, clear as water answer regarding "kinds."

You are most "kind" yourself.

I am somewhat miffed that no mention whatsoever was made of my bon mot McCoy quote regarding Spock.  After all, it came from Star Trek II, The Wrath of Kind.

Date: 2010/12/21 13:08:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can make a wave in the bathtub, it doesn't mean that every wave in the ocean is designed.

Exactly right!

I can make bubbles in the bathtub and it doesn't prove that the early atmosphere was composed of hydrogen sulfide and methane.

Date: 2010/12/30 21:30:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Sounds like FL ran out of his only friend, Jim Beam.

Like a silent film star in the modern era, more of a curiosity than anyone taken seriously.

Sucks to be you, FL.

Date: 2010/12/31 22:35:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ha, Corny Hunter!  You're talking about a guy who suffocated in his own bullshit decades ago.

The guy couldn't order a Big Mac without screwing it up.


Date: 2011/01/06 15:27:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Now, that's a great idea!

Hey, IBIG, tell me how I can get a succubus.  Tall and blonde if you don't mind.


Date: 2011/01/07 14:39:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is it too much to ask, IBIG, for a little help?  Do I need to beg?

I moved my bed to the center of the room and circumcised a pent-o-gram around it, chased down two Viagra with a Red Bull and waited for my tall, blonde succubus to "come."

Do you know how hard it is to wait, IBIG?  Like Christmas hard when I prayed for Santa to bring me a big bat.

Get with the program, IBIG.

Date: 2011/01/10 19:18:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, IBIG, since you're a God Genius perhaps you could answer a few simple God questions?

1.  Is God alive?

2.  Assuming "alive" means reproducing (or respiration), does God reproduce?  With whom?  (Besides Mary, of course, nudge nudge!)

3.  Does God breathe?  If so, what?

4.  Does God get bored?  If so, why?


Date: 2011/01/10 21:07:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How big is God's penis, and is it circumcised.  And if so, who did it?

It's >this< big and my doctor did it.  Legend has it he needed his entire staff to wrestle the foreskin to the ground.  I was left with a mere 18".

Stunted, I am.

Although it is recognized by the fair sex who exclaim, repeatedly, Oh God, Oh God!

Unlike Louis' experience with is along the lines of WTF, WTF???

Date: 2011/01/12 08:14:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Why am I so weak?  Drawn to the tard, I am.

Here's what the Boy Gerbil, Casey, says about his own self on that site:

Who are the experts? Well, I’m an evangelical Christian and I hold two degrees in earth sciences from UC San Diego where I studied evolution, including the fossil record, extensively at both the undergraduate and graduate levels. If I was a neo-Darwinian evolutionist, you’d probably call me an “expert.”

Well, I guess it's not Tooooooo bad.  At least he put "expert" in scare quotes where it belongs.

Luskin studied the fossil record EXTENSIVELY????

Bwahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!  What a total, fucking liar.

Date: 2011/01/12 17:50:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey has learned a modicum of self-preservation when he detects he's about to be buried under a shit storm.

Luskin is such a jackass.  He started to downplay the whole credential thing after he spent a paragraph trying to inflate his.  No disrespect intended, but what the hell is a degree in "earth science?"  You may not believe this, but Luskin has described himself as a scientist.  Yes, total lie.

The DI is all about credential inflation.  How many times have you read, "Hey, Louis got a couple of papers published" and nobody bats an eye.  Totally normal. Yea, Louis!

In DI speak it would have been "World-renown scientist and five-time Nobel nominee Dr. Dr. Dr. Louis published two peer-reviewed pro-intelligent design papers challenging the dogmatic-Darwinian orthodoxy in the prestigious International Harvester Journal of Molecular-Schmecular Complexitation Review Letters Acta (Czech)"

Wow, Louis, really?  Five-time nominee?

Date: 2011/01/13 09:56:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As I wrote, no disrespect to earth scientists, however, great heaping gobs of disrespect for the lying little Gerbil fucker.

That said,

at my undergraduate university, Northern Arizona, they had a geography degree which touched on geology, paleontology, surveying and mapping, oceanography and all sorts of interesting things.  One of my favorite courses was geography taught by a "desert rat" of a guy.  Field trips were fascinating.

Probably makes me an expert or in Gerb's parlance an "expert."  Know what I mean?

Date: 2011/01/15 11:36:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Each row is still random, but I have imposed a non-random macro-level constraint. That’s how my will works when I make a choice.

Hmmmm, I think I understand.  Let's say that someone throws a rock at me and I've got what to decide what to do.

First, I get all my ducks in a row.  (micro)

Then I fuck like every other duck in the row.  (macro)

Then I add up the ducks and the fucked ducks to get my decision:

Either I duck, or I'm fucked.

By Jove I think I've got it!!

Date: 2011/01/23 10:49:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It took all night (that's what she said) but I finished a poll of every visitor to the Panda's Thumb in the last 6 months.

The qwestion was:  Do you take Kwis sewiouswy?

Drum woll pwease!!!!

NO:  7,284,443

YES:  0

It appears that Kwis voted against himself, pwobabwy because he didn't understand the question.

Poo widdle Kwis!

(Heh, heh, she said "widdle!"  Srsly, that's what she said.)

Date: 2011/01/23 11:04:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow, late to the party and the monkey's dead!

(That's what she said.)

Kwis said:  Science can't prove an imaginary concept is impossible.

I say:  Correct.  Next.

Kwis said:


I say:  DNFTT

I like this game!

Date: 2011/01/23 14:22:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We had 9" of snow last week, and there are flurries again today.

Nine inches, eh?

(Sorry, Louis, it's just too obvious!  I just can't bring myself to do it.  Not on Wes' birfday!)

(That's what she said.)

Date: 2011/01/23 16:50:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
FtK wrote:

Sex is not a difficult thing to figure out or enjoy, and it doesn't take years of experience to cum up with a multitude of ways of enjoying it.  Just sayin'....;P

Sister, you said a mouthful!

Date: 2011/01/24 00:45:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've got a bone for Kris to chew on.

(That's what ... never mind.)

Assume no fossil record.  All you've got are biological samples from thousands of organisms.  You have DNA sequences and protein sequences and you have figured out how DNA relates to proteins.  

Let's make it even worse.  You don't know anything about the organisms - no pictures, no nothing.  Just the molecular info.

With this information alone is it possible to derive a theory of evolution?

With this information alone, what can you figure out?

(To coin a phrase, I would call this the Venter Conjecture.  Mugs and t-shirts available on-line soon.)

Date: 2011/01/25 08:26:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The shorter Kwis:

Louis:  I fink we're gonna get a touch of the Andy Cain in the A.M., know what I mean, mate?

S.Dog:  Old Greek saying, Louis, "rain at night, [greek]fish[/greek] don't bite."  Diogenes.

Doc Bill:  That's what she said!

Kwis:  Weathermen suck!

All:  What?

Kwis:  Are you saying that ALL weathermen are perfect?  Are you saying that ALL weathermen have PhD's?  Are you saying that weather "science" is 100 percent accurate?  Screw you Dale!

Date: 2011/01/30 10:46:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Egnor was the guy that said the brain was like a cell phone and God was ATT, or something along those lines.

He flounced away screaming like a little girl about "ad hominem, uncivil, viewpoint discrimination" when it was pointed out that his analogy was STUPID.

I mean, not even fucking STUPID, just regular STUPID.  What a Nancy.

Date: 2011/02/01 21:34:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not to brag or anything but I produce the most sophisticated Beef Stroganoff using the best beef known in the Universe.

And, I do it by hand without computers.

(That's what she said.)

Date: 2011/02/08 17:54:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I hate to admit it, but JoeG's insight on the nature of ice and water got me to thinking.

Take ice, for example.  Natural pond ice is flat, featureless and two-dimensional.  An ice cube, however, has the extra dimension imposed upon it.  That dimension is a function of design, but not random design, rather unique design.  Therefore, it could be expressed as

D (sub ic) = f (ud)

Where D (sub ic) is the metric of design expressed as irreducibly complex, u is the uniqueness factor and d is the apparent design factor.

Two thoughts came to mind when I derived this expression not the least of which was projection.  Projection is often used, mathematically, to reduce multivariate systems to 2 or 3 dimensions for visualization.  For example, a 2-dimensional figure, mathematically, is the set anchored at zero orthogonal to the 3-dimensional vector;  like a shadow.  A projection of a sphere is a circle.  It was projection that enabled me to break out of the length-width-height straitjacket and think in terms of a Function of Design.

What really made sense to me, though, was taking the ideas of Herbert Spencer (who coined the phrase "survival of the fittest") with the search function mathematics of Robert Marks.  It's a code!  Spencer was making a joke because he discovered that the orthogonal projection was the "fittest" solution to the design space problem.  He solved the problem but died before he could publish it leaving only an important clue.  It's so obvious!

Thus, using Marks and Spencer, I departmentally stored a randomly selected set of measurements I got from Valentine's Vertebrate Paleontology and the Protein Data Base and guess what I found?

Yes, the projection fell OUTSIDE of the design space.

Ah, ha, you say, you knew it wouldn't work, but the joke's on you because in doing so I found the error in Dembski and Marks calculations and it was so simple.  

Dembski and Marks rely entirely on positive feedback for their search algorithms and on the surface that would make sense.  A search would benefit, positively, from minimizing error which is a direct result of positive feedback.  It's engineering 101 which is where Marks is coming from.

I fault Dembski more than Marks for failing to value the "other side" of complex numbers.  There's the rational and the irrational and Dembski always, always picks one over the other and it's either bias or a weakness on his part, but he missed the boat as a result.

What if, what if, I thought, one applied negative feedback, which Dembski and Marks avoid, to the problem, sort of like a critique.  Like the rational numbers that Dembski avoids.

Turns out, that's the key.  The data flipped across the axis and fell right into the middle of the Design Zone!

Encouraged I tried multiple animals and measurements:  width at half-peak femur lengths versus haemoglobin protein chain length.  Design!  Feather barb length versus chicken foot metatarsal insertion depth.  Design!  One after the other, no matter what metrics I fed into the equation it came out Design, Design, Design.

Emboldened, I fed in a bunch of measurements that had never been measured before.

Frozen pond water Benoit fractal coefficient vs average ice depth.  No design.  Pebble distribution vs sand grain size in streams.  No design.  It seems that the function can distinguish between design and non-design.  It needs more testing, though.

Not to brag, but once I get this worked up and confirmed by a few more people I think I'll be booking a hotel room in Stockholm.

Date: 2011/02/09 16:30:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seriously, this thread is rotting your brains!

I worked my ass off to contrive this statement

Thus, using Marks and Spencer, I departmentally stored

into 300 words of pure fiction and the only comment I get is that a pond is not 2-dimensional.

I think I'll pour myself another glass of Gordon's Anti-Tard Elixir.  Cheers.

Date: 2011/02/09 17:22:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, <joe>Ya know</joe> I think I could drivel out more science fiction science in an hour than all the creationists combined have produced in the last 6000 years.

I've observed over the years that creationists have zero sense of humor.  It's an ironic genetic mutation, IMHO.  Really, name a funny creationist, funny "haha" that is.

Can't do it.  Dembski couldn't tell a joke if his fugly sweater was being held hostage.  

So, yeah, I'm awarding myself POTW because I'm that needy.  I thought my use of "projection" was especially droll, although it brought back memories of actual research I did in the xx's on pattern recognition of chemical analyses using k-nearest neighbor and learning machine.  But, I digress, and to talk actual science on a JoeG thread is pornographic at best.

I thank God and my agent for my award and fuck the rest of you.

Date: 2011/02/09 17:39:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Insert what into whose mom?

By Jove I think he's got it!!

(that's what she said)

Date: 2011/02/09 19:29:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Blipey's having my baby.

Just sayin'

Louis, you jealous?  Asleep?  Come on, mate, help me out here or we're through (except on a pay for view).

Date: 2011/02/10 11:14:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
and amphibians in the southeast US.

Did you misidentify Newt Gingrich again?

Date: 2011/02/23 08:57:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Careful, fire danger is high!

Giant field of strawmen.

They sets 'em up and they knocks 'em down.

Date: 2011/03/11 11:05:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I always had to kick the NMR because it had a loose mains connection.

Shocking, I know.

Date: 2011/03/18 17:51:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I haven't been over to the BioLegos wankfest in quite some time.  Got tired of the facials.  Wasn't doing my complexion any good.  At.  All.

It's no different than UD, really, except that they call it a "Gentleman's Club" rather than a "Strip Joint."

Date: 2011/03/22 19:01:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Shimmied Orbit!

Date: 2011/03/22 19:05:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Does it star Handbasket?

Date: 2011/03/24 13:10:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill

"I have a crisis coming to a head to deal with..."

How many times have we seen this, how many?  Ten to the fortieth would be my upper bound guess.

The ud'ders are well and truly stuck with mathgrrl because she was invited.  And she's holding them to the topic no matter how much they try to squirm away.  Right at the start "joseph" tried to derail the thread.  Ha, ha!

I usually don't do more than skim UD but this comment from BA was priceless:

Back to BA’s statement.  If MathGrrl asserts a position on our site that is contrary to what we assert, we have to study hard.  Then we have two choices:  If we can, we should prove her wrong.  If we can’t we must change our mind.

It is my sincere hope that this site never becomes an echo chamber.  Echo chambers are boring.  We always welcome a (civil) discussion with those who disagree with us.  We never run from a confrontation, because we are confident in our position.  We will debate the issues here and let the chips fall.

And then the bastard proceeds to throw MathGrrl into the echo chamber.  I can't wait for the movie to come out.  I hope Angelina Jolie plays MathGrrl.

Date: 2011/03/24 16:27:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yep, that was PaV's line all along.  You can't calculate CSI, except that you can (read Dembski's book) (again) (and again) but, really, you can't calculate CSI because like the Boojum it vanishes when you calculate it.

Yep, Joseph is that stupid.  He started off slow-stupid but now he's in high gear.

It's fun to watch this thread unfold.  The ud'ders have produced absolutely nothing to the conversation except complaints and whining, but there's no threat of the Ban Hammer which is tying them in knots.  PaV already tried to invoke the Hammer only to get bitch-slapped by Dense her own self.

We need to take up a collection for MathGrrl who's going to need a week at a spa after this.

Date: 2011/03/24 16:42:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The hits keep coming!  

This from Upright Biped who stumbles on the Truth:

Obviously, if I drink the Kool-aide down at the NCSE, then ID is an insignificant group of incorrigible religious fanatics that have been repeatedly discredited by scientific observation.

And, just think, he did that without Kool-aide (sic).

Date: 2011/03/24 17:24:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Joseph just sent Dembski a PM:

"Need another bottle single malt.  Pay you Tuesday."

One can only imagine the single malt scented flecks of spittle showering Joseph's keyboard as he attempts to bang out another incoherent reply.

But, it gets better!

After several typo-ridden posts, Joseph produces double:


Please provide the rigorous mathematical definition for a computer program and you will how wrong you are.

No, it doesn't make sense but a fellow ud'der puts the knife in:

Collin writes:

oseph, you are so dramatic.

I noticed that you copied the same error in your 158 message as you did in your message at 145. That must be a posting-duplication mutation. I think that the CSI did not translate.

Yes, ladies and gents, the ud'ders are eating themselves!

All hail MathGrrl!

Date: 2011/03/25 13:33:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This has (is still) been an outstanding cluster wankfest!

There's so much tard on the floor that BA77 is scared to show his butt.

Clearly, none of the id "supporters" have a clue what CSI is.  They can't agree on the C, the S or the I.  It's a number!  It's bits!  It's a number of bits!  It's bits of numbers!  It's smells like pink!  High-larry-us.

Joseph has given up and is running around shouting "Bogus!  Bogus!"  PaV is back to "read my book," calculate CSI your own self, and begging for the Ban Hammer.

It's like asking an alchemist to calculate pH by invoking demons.

Pitiful in a train wreck sense.

Date: 2011/03/28 17:22:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ironic, isn't it, that a guy making a film about Hell is actually going to Hell, himself, because of his lifetime of un-repented bad behavior.

Just on "bearing false witness" alone he's totally doomed.  Of course, the immoral douchbag is counting on a deathbed recant, but that's not going to cut it for the King of Kings, is it?

Kev-0 is a bad person, dishonest to the core and he knows it.    Kev-0 knows he deliberately lied in Expelled and he comes here thinking that we'll forgive him for his sins and that's irony upon irony.

Number one, we know you're a douchbag, Kev-0, and Number two we don't care.  There is no Number three.  You are Number 6.

Date: 2011/03/29 18:59:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OMG!  MathGrrl showed up on the Infinite Thread at UD and is kicking ass and taking names.

Oh, it's beautious to behold.  She's calling out the jackasses and making them pay.

We need to send Dense Larious a boukay of flour for her contribution to the demise of ID.

Kisses, my hairy Canadian love!

Date: 2011/03/30 18:12:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, I've got a really gross picture.  Wanna see?

No!  (yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes!)

Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwww grosssssssss!

MathGrrl has crawled out of the slime and is off for a hot shower.  Meanwhile, Joseph has gone down to his Mom's basement to lie to the world that he provided all the info MG needed but she was too stupid to realize it.

Way to go, Joseph!  You showed 'em!

Geeze Louise, MathGrrl, a wankfest full of fuckwits, you really know how to throw a party.

Meanwhile, Dense-O wakes up with kf's boxers on her head wondering what happened.

Date: 2011/03/31 17:56:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It doesn't matter to me who MathGrrl is because she got Ban Immunity from Dense and that's all that counts.

Thanks to Dense we have documentation of the most stupid of the stupid discussion of ID evah!  Breathtaking inanity doesn't begin to describe the machinations of the ud'ders to even come up with a consistent definition of SCI, much less calculate a value.

OMG, the tard is so thick that I think Dense looks a lot like Angelina Jolie and she's hot for me, I can tell!  Pardon me, folks, but I'm off to commit some sins against nature.

Yo, Dense, what's your sign?

Date: 2011/03/31 19:51:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Louis, I would so do Dense!

She's probably got enough Canadian hair that she lost a ring down there. I'll find it and I'll find more!


I'll hire a giraffe if necessary.

Louis, you pussy!

Date: 2011/04/01 12:43:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is there any ud'der dumber than "joseph?"

It's difficult to tell if he's posting while blind drunk or simply delusional.  He made this ironic comment about MathGrrl:

4- You don’t know what you are talking about and just make stuff up

Of course, there might be a natural explanation.  Perhaps he just needs to get his mother's keyboard serviced.

(keyboard, Louis, keyboard)

Date: 2011/04/01 16:26:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Seversky @ April 01 2011,16:11)
Quote (Louis @ April 01 2011,10:25)
And the question remains: Who is Mathgrrl?


I am MathGrrlacus!

No, I am MathGrrlacus!  And I've got the stiletto heels to prove it.

Date: 2011/04/03 18:31:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
aerospace software designer

That would mean old Gilly writes his stuff by a wing and a prayer.

Date: 2011/04/04 17:19:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
A simple people search shows that house in Greenbelt, Md., to belong to one David Abel.

"Foundation."  What's next, "Empire?"

Date: 2011/04/07 11:10:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Paul Nelson Day!

I take it all back.  Paul is definitely not like an inverse-whale that rises to the surface to fart.  A whale would have a brain.

No, Paul is more like a methane/hydrogen sulfide bubble that takes about a year to form on the ocean floor before it rises to the surface with a grand *poot*

Out at Evo Whine and Cheese, the great Nelson writes the following:

I was supposed to do this a year ago -- well, long before that, too -- but a glacier passed me on the interstate, and then I ran out of gas, got so depressed that I threw my notes into a box, and...oh, never mind. Let's get started.

After the second entry in this series (part II), we'll open up the comments section for your responses. Complete citations and additional reading will also be compiled at the end of part II.

1. Introduction: Why A Biological Distance That's Currently Impossible to Measure, Ontogenetic Depth, Nevertheless Really Matters to Evolutionary Theory

After "currently impossible to measure" I stopped reading.  It was just too painful.

OMFG!  I hate to break the news to you, Paul, but even the totally batshit insane Naziphile, Klinghoffer, writes better stuff than this.

See you next year, Pauly!

Date: 2011/04/07 11:14:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Joe G @ April 07 2011,11:09)
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 07 2011,10:53)
Quote (Joe G @ April 07 2011,10:37)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ April 07 2011,09:37)
I honestly don't know what's been funnier, watching Joe get caught in this bare-faced lie or watching him squirm to try and explain it away.

Great work guys!

What lie?

Oh here we go. the old creationist, "I'll make you explain everything and then deny it and ask for the explanation again" merry go round.

Nice pic Joe, you actually look like a normal, respectable fella. Not sure about benching 300 lbs, though.


That's not my picture....

Orly, Joe?  

I thought the dirty sanchez gave you away.

Date: 2011/04/08 14:40:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ohhhhhh!  They've opened up comments on Pauly's Opus Flatus 2!

Count so far is 4 comments, all creationists, total content zero.

Not bad for seven year's work.

Date: 2011/04/10 01:00:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I really think that Paul is mentally retarded and that it's tantamount to child abuse to allow him to post his delusional writings.

Who's minding this guy?  Yo, you're slipping on the job!

Date: 2011/04/10 14:05:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Alas, I am not beyond the reach of the NCSE.  They tap me for several hundred bucks a year, and if I don't pay they'll stop sending me their newsletter.

Curse you, Darwinian Pressure Group (Delta Pi Gamma)!

Date: 2011/04/15 13:08:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Poor Arthur Hunt, pity him!  He's trying to teach some basic biology to Paul Nelson.

It's like trying to explain the Theory of Relativity to a mentally retarded person:

Art:  OK, Paul, imagine you're riding a beam of light.

Paul:  Oh, goodie, I like rides.  And bowling.

Art:  Right.  OK, you're riding a beam of light ...

Paul:  Won't I fall off?

Art:  No, Paul, you won't fall off.  So, imagine you're on ...

Paul:  What color is the light, Art, can I have a red light?

Art:  Sure, Paul, any color you want.  OK, so ...

Paul:  I want a blue light, Art!  Blue like Hawaii.  Bowling!

Art:  Great, Paul, just great.  OK, so you're riding this beam of light and ...

Paul:  Look, Art, I'm riding it on my belly.  It's a surfboard!

Art:  Whatever, Paul.  OK, so you're riding this beam of light and ...

Paul:  Hang ten, Art!  Cowabunga, dude!

Art:  Jesus fucking christ, Paul, can you pay the fuck attention for five fucking minutes?  Is that too damn much to fucking ask?

Paul:  You said bad words, Art.

Art:  Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, you fat, stupid moron fuckity fuck fucktard!!!!

Paul:  It's always the same with you atheist materialists.  When you realize you have no argument you resort to uncivil ad hominim insults.  Civility just isn't your strength, I guess.

Date: 2011/04/15 22:52:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I scrolled to the bottom and saw all those faces and had to open another bottle of wine.

OK, Louis, you owe me 4 bucks.

Date: 2011/04/20 20:33:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Of course the ud'ders have no more ability to provide an explanation than FL does calculating, using Euclidian geometry, how much water it would take to cover the Earth to a depth of N feet, pick your N.  They will simply run away.

The quickest way to get a creationist to discover he has other things to do like shopping, haircuts and "important projects" is to hold them to a single explanation.

Joseph is probably the stupidest of the ud'ders and that's saying something.  He's like a wicked combination of mentally retarded, sociopathetic, ADD, undereducated, sexually repressed and basically stupid human being that you'd be pressed to create even if you were an Unintelligent Creator.  Why his mom lets him access the Internet is a mystery.

Date: 2011/04/21 14:24:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 21 2011,14:16)
Does UD ban a lot of people?

Nope, it bans the same Gang of Five over and over.

Date: 2011/05/05 15:08:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Geeze Louise!

Ixnay on the owk-kway!

Date: 2011/05/20 19:28:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at Evo Whine and Snooze, DI attack gerbil and World Unibrow Queen, Casey Luskin, actually wrote this:

People often invent conspiracy theories when they feel dejected and disenfranchised, but are unwilling (or politically unable) to admit the possibility they are wrong. Such theories are often an attempt to save face by inventing opponents who can then be blamed.

Words fail me.  This guy who espouses the "Darwinian lobby" and the "Darwinian Pressure Group*" and "Darwinists this and that" has described in his own words his own self.

A.  Mazing.

*Actually, the Darwinian Pressure Group, Delta Pi Gamma, exists and we accept donations.  Cash only.

Date: 2011/05/23 18:58:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Kristine @ May 23 2011,15:43)
Oops. Stein himself recently lost a gig due to sexist jokes. (Actually, they are all older than the hills. Yawn.)

That's what she said.

Date: 2011/05/31 18:20:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Reminds me of what my major professor used to ask me:

"Are you blind????!!!"

Date: 2011/06/02 11:00:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not only is FtK an expert in the Flounce but she's more than proficient in the Bump, the Grind (both Parisian and Danube), Hanging the Picture, the Pole Whack, Stomping the Frog, Cha Cha Rumba Mamba, Blowing the Bubble, the Chopstick (Peking and Cantonese), Argle the Bargle, Bagel Cream, Greasing the Slush Pump, Aldente, Alfresco and Alfredo and the Kansas Two Hand.

Don't mess with FtK unless you qualify for a corporate discount with K-Y.


Date: 2011/06/03 10:02:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Whacks on, whacks off.

Date: 2011/06/06 21:13:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Premise Media gone bankrupt.  "Expelled" being auctioned.

Hey, Kevin Eleven, nice job!  You certainly wrote a classic, buddy!  You should buy your own film, then you could hawk it at Kraft Fayres around the midwest.  You and Stein could buy an old VW microbus, paint it orange, and earn Motel 6 points or something.  It's a living!


Date: 2011/06/08 18:21:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm a stupid son-of-a-bitch for missing a chance to snag a beautiful line written by that moron of morons, John West, on the DI site.

In his blather about Granville, West wrote something to the effect that "Smithsonian journal editor Richard Sternberg lost his job because he published Meyer's paper."  I'm quoting what I remember not the actual text which I should have snagged, but didn't because I'm a StUpiD SoB!

I'm sure that's the way the DI views Sternberg but it was so wrong in all aspects that I spit my coffee OVER my screen.

It's been changed, now, and the original is probably lost to history.  It was sweet while it lasted.

Date: 2011/06/10 18:05:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Have you noticed on the EN&V site since they opened up comments (restrictedly) that  

1.  There are few comments.
2.  What comments there are sounds like UD or Joe G's site or Ham's AIG.

No real commentary, just cheerleading from the socks.

Pathetic level of detail if you ask me.

Date: 2011/06/11 18:57:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We should ask Kevin Eleven to do the revised screenplay.  He's probably looking for work and because of his reputation he could offer some authority to the documentary.

I mean, who other than K11 knows where all the lies are?  Except for all of us, of course.

Date: 2011/06/13 18:16:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yea, DI, more Hitler!

My son:  Who's Hitler?

Date: 2011/06/13 18:48:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, you know, my son knows "Hitler" as an historical figure, although vaguely, but I know of Hitler from all the b/w war movies I saw as a child.

The DI is appealing to me and my parents, dead or shortly dead, as a "bad thing."  Boomers like me remember the Hitler influence although we didn't experience it first hand.  The Hitler hook grows less and less important with each generation.

The likelihood that my son will contribute to the DI because of "Hitler" is zero.  Hitler who?

Date: 2011/06/17 07:54:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Looks like Casey and Steve Matheson are mixing it up on the same thread.

Hey, DI, is Luskin the Gerbil the best you have to explain "intelligent design" creationism?  I hope the little boy gets paid by the word!

Luskin at bat.

Date: 2011/06/21 18:12:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I checked out Egnor's site and he has nothing to say.

The guy's another opinionated moron of which the Blogosphere is full.

I do like the unimaginative title of his blog, though, Egnorance.  Geeze Louise, maybe Louis could start a business naming theocrat blogs.  Behe could be Weasel Words and Dembski could be Coward's Corner.  The Gerbil Tube for Luskin.  The mind boggles.

I'll wager 100 quatloos that Egnor doesn't get even a snarky comment in a year, and 200 quatloos that his site is moribund in 3 months.

Unless ... unless he starts blogging about food.  Who knows, he might corner the Blogosphere with tripe recipes.

Date: 2011/06/21 22:13:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My kind of compliment goes like this:

"The flesh of your buttocks ripples nicely to the tip of my whip."

Like the French say, no grain no pain.

Date: 2011/06/24 00:27:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, like the current distribution channel is doing SO well they don't need to file Chapter 11 ... oh, wait ...

Date: 2011/06/24 20:14:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Creationist professional prevaricator sez:

Nothing at all to hide.

Remind us K-11 just for old times sake, was Sternberg fired from the Smithsonian?


Date: 2011/06/24 21:36:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kelvin 11 boasted:

I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property.

Srsly, dood, why do you haz other people's property on your computer?  Isn't that theft?  Not that ethics matter to a creationist propagandist.  At least you've proven that much!

Date: 2011/06/25 13:06:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Kev!  So nice to have you back!  I have so missed your abject stupidity and duplicity.  Hey, why don't you start a blog and call it "Stuplicity?"

Bad example you picked, The God Delusion.  Currently number 86, overall, on Amazon.  Over 2 million copies sold.  A quick check of books by reputable authors (that would leave you out, of course) shows that the closest rival sits at about 25,000.  Yeah, Dawkins has been refuted, OK.

The think is, Kev old fruit, is that all of Dawkins arguments are laid out there to read and critique.  Nothing hidden.  Perhaps you're looking for a prayer scribbled in the margins:  Please, God, help me sell 2 million copies of this rubbish.

HOWEVER, in Expelled, as you well know, nobody was expelled.  The whole thing is made up, every case.  By owning the film we could make the Real Expelled with commentary on what actually went down.  And the DI would be powerless to slap DMA violations or copyright violations.  How sweet would that be?

Don't you think the world needs to know that Dembski was fired for being a horse's ass by the very same Baylor President who defended him just a few days earlier?  Only "fired" is so harsh when one is simply relieved of teaching duties but free to collect a salary for five years.  All of you who want to get expelled like Dembski raise your hands!!

You already admitted you lied about Sternberg; no need to raise that again.

Let's review famous creationists and ID proponents and list who's been expelled.  Behe, nope.  Meyers, nope.  Berlinski, nope.  Dembski, nope.  Wells, nope.  West, nope.  Phillips, nope.  Richards, nope.  Gonzalez, nope.  Crocker, nope.

Hmmmmm, seems like they're all gainfully employed.

Wouldn't it be fun to do a "Where Are They Now?" segment in Expelled?  I think so!

Keep it up, Kev, you're providing much needed entertainment on an otherwise hot, dull Saturday!

Date: 2011/06/25 17:47:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Mummy!  Wolfie is trying to take away my chew toy, Mummy!

Mummy, make Wolfie stop!  Poopy-head Wolfie!

Date: 2011/06/25 17:51:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Stephen, try a little Google-Fu.  After all, it is the next century.

Expelled Exposed

The short answer to your question is: All of the above.

Date: 2011/06/25 21:53:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Wolfhound @ June 25 2011,20:59)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 25 2011,18:47)
Mummy!  Wolfie is trying to take away my chew toy, Mummy!

Mummy, make Wolfie stop!  Poopy-head Wolfie!

*Dodges rolled up newspaper*
*tucks tail*
*lowers head*
*whines plaintively*
*tears up sofa while you aren't looking*

You forgot

*pees on pillow
*shits in coffee cup
*chews up iPhone charger
*subscribes to Skeptical Inquirer

Date: 2011/06/25 23:22:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ha ha!  PZ just picked up the story and Kev-11 is being dragged through the muck he raked.

Sucks to be you, Kevvers!

Date: 2011/06/26 18:12:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 26 2011,17:56)
Gordon disproves the very idea of a simulation of evolution. How? With a cunning observation:
If I were to see a NAND gate, I would immediately infer to design as its best explanation.

Therefore ID indeed.

What if you did not see an AND gate?  Would you draw the same conclusion?

Date: 2011/06/28 23:28:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I never saw Expelled although it played in a seedy theater in Houston for a day or so.  Pay, no way!

Thanks to Kristine, may she shimmy forever, I watched the 1st part on Youtube.

Must say, I was impressed with the opening how they did the credits on the b/w film clips like Nazi Germany.  Kev11 would have made a GREAT Nazi although he's too stupid to have been Colonel Klink and too skinny to be Sgt. Schultz.  However, our Kev does "know nutzing.  Nutzing!"

After that I skipped to the Sternberg interview which met all my expectations.  Lie upon lie and mock expressions of shock by Beuler, er, I mean that other guy, whatzis name, the guy who was fired from his newspaper job due to conflict of interest and ethical violations.

Anyway, that's all I could stand.  When it got to Crockershit's interview I lost interest.

In fact, I'm done.  Crawl back under your rock, Kev-1.1 for another couple of years or five until we get bored again.

Date: 2011/07/11 21:30:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think that joseph is the most abjectly stupid person on UD, only because Casey Luskin doesn't post there.

Date: 2011/07/14 18:41:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Actually, Louis and Doc Bill have a romantic evening planned for Friday or Saturday, don't remember, actually, at an undisclosed destination and at an unknown time and, apparently, day, some time soon.  Maybe.  This month or next.

One of us will be drunk and possibly deported, certainly importune.

Film at 11.

Oh, South Kensington Station.

Date: 2011/07/15 20:14:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Right, Doc Bill will be in London maybe Friday, maybe Saturday next week July 22-23.

Who's in to buy the old geeze a few  pints?

Nobody, right?  I can see that already.  Well, it's not the first time nor the last that the old Dockster has drunkified himself alone.


Date: 2011/07/16 21:11:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, in other news I'll be in London on Friday and am willing to meet up with fellow rationalists or nymphomaniacs, preferably nearsighted.

PM me for the undisclosed location and bring your own protection, if you get my drift.

I invited Luskin but I think it's his wank night.  So, alas.

Date: 2011/07/17 21:06:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Uh, Saturday night.  Free beer.

Buehler?  Buehler?

Date: 2011/07/17 22:48:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, it will be me Two Jars Cru and Lewis.

Pathetic, huh?

There will be video, however, and all you HOMOS will be having fantasies for decades!

Date: 2011/07/18 00:32:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Second, date, my friend.  Second date.

We're looking at a happy ending this time and we will NOT be at Kew Gardens, your swan fetish be damned.

Luskin texted me that he could be there if he could lick his deadline, but if you recall that was the problem the last time when he arrived way too early.

Date: 2011/07/24 05:15:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Just saying, Louis, that it is quite cruel to ply someone with some kind of Chinese liquor that "has a kick" then give that person chopsticks to eat. I hope you remember that you were amused.

Date: 2011/07/24 05:26:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Louis and the Texas Dildo" will not be an upcoming children's book no matter that it seemed a good idea last night.

However, movie rights have been sold to "Doc Bill and the Soho Chopsticks. ". Soon on DVD.

Date: 2011/09/02 16:40:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, here's the video and it's not half bad!  She does a great job and doesn't blow it.

Loos give piggie a helping hand.

What surprised me is that Louis loaned them his prosthetic piggie thingie.

Date: 2011/09/03 21:18:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
ID will prevail when D O'L transforms into a woman.

Date: 2011/09/07 18:20:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, who is the Leroy Jenkins of ID?

I'd go with Behe following his brilliance at Kitzmiller.

"Such a research program (into ID) would be fruitless."


Date: 2011/09/09 18:11:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Casey is not stupid.

No way, José!  Luskin the Attack Gerbil is quite stupid, quite possibly mentally deficient.  I'm sure he's paid in nickels because he's been told that they're bigger than dimes.

Although he managed to pass the low bar in California and possibly Washington, which is like the Arkansas of the northwest, Luskin has never "worked" as a lawyer, does not represent the DI or anyone as counsel and demonstrates the barest understanding of, well, anything.

If it weren't for the DI paying him in nickels his most frequently uttered phrase would be "May I take your order, please."

Not stupid?  Casey?????  Please, pull the other one!

p.s.  That said, I've never known Luskin to be vicious like some of the other denizens of the DI.  But, that's because viciousness requires cunning which Luskin lacks in spades.  He's just a poor, dumb foot soldier.  I wonder how many times in staff meetings Luskin blurts out, "I like bowling!"

Date: 2011/09/13 16:38:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I swore I'd never go back there, but like a moth ...

DrREC wrote:  
Copying Mussorgsky’s Gates of Kiev, and throwing in an unplayed (Ventner’s addition doesn’t code, or do anything) stanza doesn’t make me a composter.

No, but participating in the comment thread at UD sure does!

Date: 2011/09/13 21:46:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
But if DeNews were really picky about getting things right, she'd never post anything, and then where would we be?

Hanging out in train station pubs with Louis, obviously.

Been there, done that.

Date: 2011/09/17 19:13:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I understand that Crocker got the story from Michelle Bachmann who said that the mother of the student came up to her, crying, and told Bachmann that her daughter gave a presentation on "intelligent design" and now she's suffering from mental retardation and couldn't get into medical school.

Sad, really.

Date: 2011/09/19 17:24:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
UD has really become a clown-car filled cluster fuck.  There's more sense made at the Mad Hatter's tea party than at UD.

Data don't count and you can draw an infinite number of lines through a point only that doesn't matter because it's all just a wild guess.

Venus on a clamshell, UD has become a singularity of stupid.

Date: 2011/09/19 20:47:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's a sad commentary that Jonathan M is actually one of the more "intelligent" contributors to UD.

By design?

Animals Smarter than Jonathan M

Date: 2011/09/19 21:00:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
According to the DI, the butterfly is the new (cue radio voice) ICON OF INTELLIGENT DESIGN (/cue radio voice)!

Yes, the flagellum of the bacteria, let's face it, is not very photogenic.  How about a nice butterfly?  Ohhhhh, look at the wings, the eyes, the throax and the little hooky feet!  Must have been DESIGNED because Charles Darwin couldn't make a butterfly!  


And which better scientists to decry the design of the butterfly and talk about all it's biological parts than Paul "I'm not a scientists nor do I play one on TV" Nelson and Ann "What, me science?" Gauger.

Seriously, I hope the DI realizes eventually that their ultimate mascot is the shark since they've jumped it so many times.

Date: 2011/09/20 15:38:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ Sep. 20 2011,07:32)
DrBot [URL=“the-origin-and-relationship-between-the-three-domains-of-life-is-lodged-in-a-phylogenetic-

impasse”/comment-page-1/#comment-400218]rubs StephenB's nose[/URL] in Lizzie's argument:
Now where, StephenB, do they conclude that “abiogenesis is plausible”? They don’t, what they show is that the data supports their hypothesis, as stated in the paper, and that it fits into their own broader theory about abiogenesis.

Like DrBot, I am astounded at how difficult it is for StephenB and the rest of the IDiots to follow Lizzie's very clear explanation.  It's almost enough to make me want to study psychology.  The problem isn't low intelligence, although that does contribute in some cases, or lack of education, ditto, but a deeply ingrained inability to recognize facts that contradict their views.  Frustrating, but fascinating.

It does make me more cognizant of when I might be reinforcing my own biases, though, so clearly my tard addiction is good for me.

There is an explanation for this observation.  It's not that the UDders don't understand the arguments and data being presented, however, it's precisely that they DO understand.

They aren't so much stupid, joseph and JoeG and FL and Dense excluded, as they are dishonest.  Yes, I'm talking about you ba77, you creep.

Notice how they'll bumble along until someone like Liz actually provides a link to a relevant resource or make a tight argument (down, Louis) and suddenly the tone changes.  Suddenly there is a barrage of creationist links and non sequiturs.  Suddenly you're back to the "can't add information" argument or the "not enough time" argument or the "improbable" argument.

Liz scored several direct hits on that thread and the creeps know it which is why they tried to bury the thread in irrelevant bullshit.  

I made the mistake of honestly engaging with these cons years ago and got banninated by DaveScot his own self after my very first post which was very polite by my standards.   As I recall, I pointed out that steam, water and ice are actually three states of the same matter, H2O, and was banned for excessive sarcasm.  Alas, I wish that had been the case!

Date: 2011/09/21 10:46:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Actually I wrote in a subsequent post using the pseudonym Dembski's Poodle that evolution was implausible because the framastat couldn't mork the frim fram.

That led Marks and Dembski to write their famous paper, Non-linear Framastatic Frim Frams in a Biological Morkverse.  (published in a comment thread on

Date: 2011/09/21 17:46:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at EvoNews or Klinghoffer Wanks Again is this charming invitation to Luskin's opus minimus on how there ain't no stinkin' increase in Biologikal Informashun:

We don't routinely open the comments feature at ENV because of the staffing requirement that comes into play when we do, cleaning up after Darwinists who don't know how to have a discussion on science without descending to the gutter.

I say "fuck 'em."

Date: 2011/09/24 22:50:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
If we could create a Nobel Prize category for "dealing with fucktards" then Liddle would win hands down.

I mean, I would have been spastic long ago.  I can only guess that she is collecting data for a treatise on sociopathic behavior.

I give up.

Date: 2011/09/29 11:53:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The shorter Casey:

Anything Darwinists have done is not good enough.

All experiments are evidence of intelligent design by definition.

Cambrian Explosion.


Date: 2011/10/04 21:51:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Louis boldly wrote:
Amazingly I had something of the opposite problem. Apparently my mouth is too small*.

Srsly, dude, nobody on this planet or any other planet would accuse you of that.  Srsly.

Date: 2011/10/06 11:58:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't stop, I'm off to get popcorn. We haven't had a creationist around here for a while.

Don't bother, it's just another impotent dumb shit trying to get a rise.

Hey Forast-Joe, got that water/ice thing figgered out yet?

Didn't think so.  Run along, you annoying little fuck, this site is for adults.

Date: 2011/10/06 12:04:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Let me get this straight.*

I could create an unaccredited "university,"  Doc Bill U, and award myself an PhD Hon, or several and be a PhD Hon Mult.

Srsly?  I could do that?  Cool!  And I don't even need to recruit a football team.  I had no idea.

*that's what she said.

Date: 2011/10/06 13:29:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I third that emotion!

Date: 2011/10/09 13:07:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's a miracle, I tell you!

We taped this Monarch chrysalis to the kitchen window and photographed it every day this week.  Green, green, green, green, some brown, a little definition ...
... then ...

just after breakfast I looked up and the chrysalis was empty and a Monarch butterfly was fanning his/her wings in the sun.

It's a miracle, I tell you.

Date: 2011/10/10 08:55:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it's cute how BatShit77 seals his argument with a Bible verse.

Game, set and match!

Date: 2011/10/15 23:26:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, you're thinking of the game


Date: 2011/10/16 00:40:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, at least they had the smarts not to name the organization the

American Scientific Society

Date: 2011/10/19 16:44:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ Oct. 19 2011,16:15)
I can't tell whether, in this thread, Joseph is desperately trying to avoid learning anything that might contradict his religious views or if he's just that stupid.

You can always tell when Joseph knows the jig is up.  He abruptly changes his style and becomes, dare I say it, irrational.

I know, poor choice of words, but his style changes and he either changes the subject, claims victory or claims that he proved his point "earlier in the discussion" but never points to the entry number because, of course, he's done no such thing.

He's what we used to call in grad school "a little shit."  They never lasted very long.

Date: 2011/11/02 08:58:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Research to produce Chinese shadow characters, because, er, why?  Does it count if it's upside down?

Why is there air?

Tell me the Journal of Irreproducible Results is still published.

Date: 2011/11/02 21:45:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
These people, Axe et al, are so STUPID they don't even realize how STUPID they are!

It's not even an echo chamber any more.  It's a stupid, tard-filled echo chamber inside of an insane echo chamber surrounded by an irrational echo chamber.

If they could only make this stuff into a vest they could compete in the Kevlar market.

Date: 2011/11/17 10:26:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Gerb's got a new job, er, title, er, function, er, whatever.

According to this article in the prestigious news organ,

Christian Post

Luskin is now, drum roll please ...

Research Coordinator!!!!!

Go, Gerb!  Ride that spicy research!

Date: 2011/11/25 02:03:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh and of course, I dont agree with the radiometric dating system

You, sir, are an ignoramus wrapped in a thick layer of moron.  Your level of education as demonstrated by your inane postings is zero.  And you are stupid, to boot.

You can't agree nor disagree with "radiometric dating" because you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

What you can say is that you don't "like" radiometric dating because it conflicts with your opinion.

And, to be clear, your opinion is like an asshole.  Everybody has one but nobody gives a rat's ass about yours.

I would suggest you quit this thread and devote your time to Internet Porn.

Date: 2011/11/27 11:57:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (sparc @ Nov. 27 2011,08:59)
Don't they have to prove the nature of their BS is religious to be regarded as discriminatable?

Nope, not according to their twisted legal strategy.  Their position is that JPL "labeled" ID as religious, then discriminated against Coppedge's "labeled" religious belief.

I know, it's tough to make sense of this!

It would be like JPL thinking I was a Mormon and then persecuting me for being a Mormon, even though I wasn't.

But, then I'd have to sue JPL for religious discrimination for a religious belief I didn't hold.

However, all cockfloppery aside, ID is only a MINOR aspect of Coppedge's problems in the workplace.  His blow-ups with co-workers were on other subjects like the name of the annual Christmas party and Proposition 8, and hundreds of other interactions over a decade.

Either way, though, win or lose, the DI stands to spin the martyrdom.

Date: 2011/12/01 11:12:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill

This just in from Evo Nooze and Snooze:

The online encyclopedia triumphantly points to resistance to myxoma virus among Australian rabbis as one piece of evidence, among others, for common descent.

Oy, vey!  Who knew??

Date: 2011/12/06 21:53:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Klinghanger is a fucking idiot.  Why would anybody care what he writes?

Luskin is like a Nobel Prize winner next to Klinkdropper.

Date: 2011/12/25 13:28:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ah, brave Sir Dumbski!

Pop Quiz!

Of all the "expelled," who actually got expelled but his story is never told?

Dr. Dr., of course!  Expelled from Baylor for uncivil behavior by the very person who hired him.  Where to start?  Expelled.  For uncivil behavior.  Expelled by a fellow creationist.

Then bounced down the ladder of success to the lowest rung to which he clings dearly.  Principles?  Not nearly as important as a paycheck these days.

What was that scene in the Wizard of Oz where the Cowardly Lion is in the haunted forest and he starts wailing,

"I do believe in floods!  I do believe in floods!  I do, I do, I do, I do!"

Date: 2011/12/26 17:35:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"Be the first to comment" should read:

Be the first to suck up.

Be the first to praise jeebus.

Be the first to kiss Luskin's furry butt.

Be the first to use the use the word 'evotard.'

Be the first to Meyer*.

Be the first to fart.

*Meyer - write a sentence with 500 irrelevant references.

Date: 2011/12/27 20:02:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Here are the articles by year referencing or mentioning Kitzmiller on the Disco Tute Evo Whine and Cheese website:

2011  18
2010  16
2009  22
2008  26
2007  45

In contrast, Pharyngula mentioned Kitzmiller once this year, and the PT three times.

Project much, Gerbil?

Date: 2012/01/05 10:21:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ohhhhhh, a Mr. Bill reference present.

Gee, I haven't had one of those since, well, let's see, since, uh, yesterday!

So far, B-day + 2, nothing has shown up from the DI.  I was hoping to get a "package" from Luskin, if only to make Louis jealous.

I'll let you know if Luskin comes through, although as busy as he is he's always a little behind so it will probably have to be hand delivered.

Date: 2012/01/05 12:51:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Thanks!  I imported the picture into my iPhoto library under the event "Hunks with Junk."

Date: 2012/01/05 18:28:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, I'm overwhelmed to get to double-digits responses without jacking the results too much with my own replies.

I had hoped to complete my degree in God stuff so I could marry people on boats but I think I'm going to put that off for a year.

Sorry, Louis, for that "malfunction" and ixnay on your astardbay until I get my act together.  Hey, dude, I'll make it right, as in, Very Right.

Date: 2012/01/05 19:48:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, I won't tell you about the time I (apparently) had gay sex with someone who looked like Louis or whose name was Louis or who had a second cousin named Louis in a Paddington Station bar, I mean it was a dream, just to the right of Platform 9, but that's a guess...

Maybe it was King's Cross.

Maybe it wasn't Louis but ...

Anyway, I was on the trains, I was on the tubes and I was Turnham Green to South Kensington, change to Piccadilly to Green Park and from there, oh my, maybe that's where I met Louis in James Park.  Oh, I've got the vapors.

Your move.

Date: 2012/01/15 20:15:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Orbit from a member of the Forgottenoratti!

We are special, don't you know.  Not as loud as Louis, nor as fetching in a maroon thong but, still, after a few beers we start to look pretty good.

Date: 2012/01/16 16:01:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
WAD quote

As it is, I’m leaving my present post at Southwestern Seminary and returning as a full-time fellow of Discovery later this year (2012).


Apparently his recantation of his Teh Flud remarks weren't quite enough for his Troggie masters.  They know WAD is just paying them lip service.

And like the Romster said, if you don't like a service you can get great pleasure out of FIRING IT!

Buh-bye, WAD, you are shot!

Date: 2012/01/16 18:34:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ Jan. 16 2012,16:45)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 16 2012,17:01)
WAD quote

As it is, I’m leaving my present post at Southwestern Seminary and returning as a full-time fellow of Discovery later this year (2012).


Apparently his recantation of his Teh Flud remarks weren't quite enough for his Troggie masters.  They know WAD is just paying them lip service.

And like the Romster said, if you don't like a service you can get great pleasure out of FIRING IT!

Buh-bye, WAD, you are shot!

The Discovery Institute pays well enough to be a full-time job?  It seems my parents raised me poorly, what with all the focus on working hard and providing value in exchange for monetary compensation.

I doubt very much that Dr. Dr. gets more than the $50k range in salary, especially at a Bible college.  I recall the DI fellows scraping off something in the 50's.

However, the Big Shots, er, Shits, like Meyer rake in $150k or more based on Disco Tute IRS filings, Biologic funding, etc.  Plus, they must dine like kings at church basement pot luck suppers across the nation on their speaking tours. I'm sure their tummies are full of green bean casserole every night!

Plus, didn't Templeton fund BIOLA to the tune of $3 million or something obscene like that?  Maybe Dr. Dr. will suck on that.

Oh, and that clunking sound your heard, that was Dembski's rock of a career hitting bottom.

Date: 2012/01/24 20:05:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, our pal Kevin 11, not to be confused with 7-Eleven which is actually useful, has received an honor.

Drum roll, please!

Encyclopedia of American Loons

Bottom line description:  Typical hack.

I'm sure we can agree with that.

*golf clap*

Date: 2012/02/02 19:29:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill

If you think a guy with two Ph.D.s (one in math, one in philosophy) has made an elementary mistake in his own research field, and you have the mathematical knowledge to demonstrate the mistake, then why don’t you write up your argument formally and submit it as an article (I know you are a big fan of articles! to a peer-reviewed journal of probability theory or design theory or the like, instead of airing it here or on other blog sites, among people who mostly aren’t competent to referee? If you are going to invest scores of hours arguing against Dembski’s position, why not do it where it counts?

Well, yeah, I guess you could do that if, in fact, Dembski had published his crap in such a journal where a reply would make sense.

However, sending in an article demonstrating that Betty is mathematically better than Veronica is not likely to succeed if you get my drift.

Morons, all the way down.

Date: 2012/02/10 20:16:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 10 2012,17:31)
Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 10 2012,18:24)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 10 2012,23:05)
THIS is a man who can palpate a heifer

Why, why, why do you make me Google such things?!


This is Luskin if he was a woman, right?

Date: 2012/03/14 00:27:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I've been following Coppedge since before the "troubles" after I stumbled on his Creation-Evolution Headlines site.

The site has morphed a bit recently and is not nearly as "creationist" as the old site, but you can still find it via our pal Google.

Here's a sample of the old  Creation Safaris site.

Coppedge is involved in many things.  He configured routers and operated the HP OpenView network management software for the Cassini project, but those jobs went away during the budget cuts. He failed to upgrade his computer skills as JPL moved to Linux;  got laid off.

He's on the board of Illustra Media which distributes the Privileged Planet and other ID titles.  

He's associated with some weird outfit called Logos Associates with John Sanford, John Baumgardner, Steve Austin and other creationists.  God knows what they do.

I found an old LinkedIn page that says he got a BS in science education from Bob Jones University (no date, but probably in the 70's) and another BS in physics with an astrophysics concentration from California State University - Northridge.  His LinkedIn page was really out there leading you to believe he ran the Cassini project when all he did was monitor the network.

He's also listed himself as President of Master Plan Association which near as I can tell was a ministry set up by his father, now deceased.

Getting back to Creation Safaris and C-E Headlines, that's quite a piece of work.  He blogs on average 400 words a day, every day and has done so for about 8 years.  Even when he was having his HR problems with JPL and getting laid off he never missed a day.  He goes after all science, even his own colleagues at JPL.

I don't see how he held down a full-time job seeing as how he appeared to be a full-time YEC, too!  Although, there were some comments in the depositions to the effect that he seemed to spend a lot of time at work on personal stuff, but who knows.

Interesting fellow in a clinical sort of way.  Probably material enough for a thesis or two.

Date: 2012/03/14 11:30:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Once again, narcissistic personality disorder:

Believing that you're better than others.

Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness.

Exaggerating your achievements or talents.

Expecting constant praise and admiration.

Believing that you're special and acting accordingly.

Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings.

Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans.

Taking advantage of others.

Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior.

Being jealous of others.

Believing that others are jealous of you.

Trouble keeping healthy relationships.

Setting unrealistic goals.

Being easily hurt and rejected.

Having a fragile self-esteem.

Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional.

I'm right and they're wrong.  Somebody has to stand up to the experts.  Same pattern with creationists over and over.

Date: 2012/03/14 14:30:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
We're all special.

It's just that some of us are more special than others!

Date: 2012/03/17 22:03:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Mar. 16 2012,22:08)
Coppedge stated that he is a board member of Illustra Media, the company that produced two DVD documetaries that were submitted into evidence. The films were entitled, "Unlocking the Mysteries of Life," and "The Privileged Planet."

When asked if the DVDs contain a religious message, Coppedge testified that, "No, they do not."

Whoops! Perjury much?

You can find the Pretty Planet out on YouTube but you only have to watch part 11 of 12.  (I wish it had been 7 of 9!)

Anyway, all the talking heads are Liars for Jesus and they just can't help themselves from declaring that the universe is a creation of God, by which they mean their God.

Coppedge and the little creationists try to skirt the "ID is not religious" by claiming that the ID literature (in general) doesn't mention the Bible, however we all know that's a dodge and that they're playing word games.

A judge would need only 10 minutes on Google to uncover the entire scam.  Time will tell if the judge is up to it.

But, yeah, Coppedge is lying his head off.  About everything.

Date: 2012/03/18 12:44:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Part 11 of 12 of Unlocking the Mystery of Life!

Narrated by three creationists, Nelson, Meyer and Dembski, none of whom are scientists.  They actually claim that Dembski made a significant breakthrough that enables design to be detected.  What a laugh!

Yes, let's hope the Judge shows both the Pretty Planet and Unlocking Creationism in court.  I'll buy the popcorn.

Date: 2012/03/18 17:26:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Amadan @ Mar. 18 2012,13:35)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 18 2012,16:13)
I am sure there will be a court showing of the videos, if the JPL lawyers have any brains.

I would imagine they'll try to avoid the issue of ID/religion. JPL seem to have a reasonable case that Our Hero was asked not to do [x], continued to do so, and was less than adequate at his job and was ultimately made redundant.

No need to let the case drift onto his territory when your own is more than adequate.

The JPL lawyers tried to block entry of the films as evidence but the judge overruled that motion in favor of Coppedge.  However, Coppedge (er, Becker) argued that they needed deWolf to explain the films and the judge said he was competent to evaluate the evidence.

Would the judge have to play the films in court, or could he watch them by himself in chambers?

Date: 2012/03/19 21:42:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
His lawyer Becker wrote the brief and, yes, it's a screen play.  Most bizarre thing I've ever read and at first I couldn't believe it was a submitted legal document.

They're nuts.

However, Becker, a workman's comp lawyer, is now playing the Headache Card and poor old Coppy has to lie down every few minutes to rest his poor old melon.  How he ever held a job with such a pulsating brain we'll never know.

Get some popcorn and watch the movie:

Coppedge day at JPL.

Starts on Page 4.

Date: 2012/03/20 16:50:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
No, your honor, I did not put a dildo on her desk.  That was a Christmas gift.

Date: 2012/03/27 22:21:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Louis @ Mar. 27 2012,16:05)
Every time I think I'm out, they drag me back in.


How many bottles of saki is THIS going to cost me??

(I am not wearing heels again, I can tell you that!)

Date: 2012/03/31 21:36:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski's career is like a Slinky going down a set of stairs. While "normal" people move up the career staircase, Dembski is going down.  And not "going down" in the Lewis Sense.

First, Baylor.  Not a bad gig but, oops, fired for being a jackass.  Then a succession of Baptist seminaries, bounce, bounce.

Oh, and then there was the Big Recant.  "Yes, m'lud, teh Flud can haz realz.  And Adam doth bonkz Evie in in the loo at the Olive Garden.  More winez, tablez three."

But, saving his miserable hide from utter oblivion as Luskin's cage cleaner in Seattle is the diploma mill, tire repair center and bait shop:  Southern Evangelical Seminary, faculty population six.  Oh, now, seven!

Dembski will be in charge of a laser printer that spews out "Certificates of Scientific Apologetics" which, with a North Carolina State Certificate of Massage Therapy would enable the SES "graduate" to get a job as a masseuse.

I find it somewhat ironic that the great and powerful intellectual Dembski is reduced to sucking a sorry job in apologetics in North fucking Carolina.  Seriously, I wonder why the moron doesn't just buy a double-wide and start his own university.  Oh, yeah, I forgot.  He's a moron.

Date: 2012/03/31 23:32:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Mar. 31 2012,21:48)
not only is that north fucking carolina

it's UNION COUNTY North fucking carolina

that is the shittiest place in the whole state except for mecklenburg county.  i give him 6 months to get on meth

Well, then, my prediction of a double-wide was right on!

Crack, crackers and Cracker Jack Certifikates of Kreation Apoplectics.

Yaaaa-hooooooo!  Pass the jug!

Srsly, here we have the self-proclaimed Isaac Newton of Information Theory, more like the Alfred E. Neuman What-Me-Worry professor of Jacking Off, feebly attempting and monumentally failing at projecting "intelligent design" creationism as science, reduced from the University of Chicago department of mathematics to a pre-fab building Bible certificate mill smack in the middle of Bum Fuck, America, chanting "teh flud can haz realz, teh flud can haz realz" amongst a faculty who verily defines the phrase "severe mental retardation" and we are led to believe that this is the Number Two Guy in the "intelligence design" creationism movement.

Hate to say it, but a meth lab would be a step UP from where Dr. Dr. "Oh, look at me I'm a goober!" Dimbulbski is today.

Date: 2012/04/01 11:22:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 31 2012,23:49)
Quote (Woodbine @ Mar. 31 2012,23:47)


Don't you mean "Second Printing"?

Second "Coming."

Date: 2012/04/01 11:25:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (sledgehammer @ April 01 2012,01:12)
Spiffy new webpage.  The alpha helices don't look much like the assorted hardware strewn around...

but the wingnut is appropriate.

Ha, wingnut!

I didn't realize Klinghoffer was working for Biologic.  I wonder what happened to Ann Gauger's previous pool boy?

Date: 2012/04/01 12:22:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 01 2012,12:11)
I find it rather odd that Southern Evangelical Seminary is YEC to the core, but their new "Scientific Apologetics" certificate program has as faculty Fazale Rana, and Hugh Ross, along with Dembski. They are all "old earth" creationists.

So, is SES just too stupid to know who they hired, or is there a change of heart.

Naw, all of these fuckers have a fistful of business cards.  But it's got to be embarrassing to get a royalty check for a dollar fifty.

Check out this "company" and it's associates:

Logos Whatever Whocares

SES has a stable of dorks who probably show up on DVD and get a few bucks for every certificate they sell.  I can't imagine what the students must be like.

Date: 2012/04/01 14:29:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Very optimistic car park.

I would be astounded if Dembski moved his family there.  He has resisted moving from near Waco since his Baylor days.

Moving expenses to SES?  Don't make me laugh!  Those guys can't even afford fake car cutouts for their empty parking lot.

Note that for WaD this is ANOTHER step DOWN in his career.  He's not moving up to the Univ. of Chicago, he's moving DOWN from a big seminary with actual buildings to a certificate printing company in the middle of an unlandscaped field.

Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Date: 2012/04/01 18:03:50, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski is a fascinating character to me, in a train wreck sort of way.  Here's a guy who paid his dues in Chicago to earn a PhD in math and another one in philosophy, and those of use who have traveled this road know that you have to do certain things to reach the end, so congrats to Dr. Dr. for that work.

And then he threw it all away which is the fascinating, on-going train wreck.  Why?  He could have picked up a tenure track job in math or philosophy or both at a small or large university and settled into a nice, long, steady, anonymous career and that would have been that.

But, no.  He appears to have bought into a cult that fed his very large ego and he went downhill from there.  He had a brief chance at normalcy when offered the director's position at Baylor, but he managed to fuck that up, too, but not from academic ineptitude, rather from his penchant of taking Jackassedness to an art form.  And that seems to be his m.o. to this day.

Perhaps one of our trained psychologists can weigh in on the self-destructive personality type exhibited by Dembski, at least, that's my personal, untrained observation.

Date: 2012/04/01 21:05:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What is really sweet about this case is that the Disco Tute is up to their codpieces in this mess and even have an in-house lawyer working with Becker.  They are totally in.

Yet, they must hate Coppedge to the bone!  Coppers is a young earth biblical literalist creationist who publishes the most outlandish nonsense on his website.  Completely off the DI script.  Coppedge is the loosest canon among loose canons.  They'll never reign him in.  Any pretense of ID being scientific goes right out the ark porthole with Coppy.

Date: 2012/04/04 20:37:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't give a flying fuck about either of you!

- Louis

p.s. how do I report identity theft?

Date: 2012/04/09 07:54:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wow, almost makes them seem human.  Almost.

And that's what they want you to think.

Date: 2012/04/11 08:21:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I was just going to say "fuck you!" and sign it


But I see he beat me to it.

Curse his Greenwich Mean Time.

Date: 2012/04/11 19:30:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Really, Stevie?

In that case, Fuck You!


Date: 2012/04/19 17:43:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
As a supervisor you simply can't "document everything."

Document all faults, disagreements, negative comments by customers?  How about successes, agreements, positive comments by customers?

Can you imagine doing that for 20 people in your section?

Nope.  The bottom line was that Coppedge was a crank such that 80% (according to court documents) of his client base didn't want him near their stuff.  One director even went so far as to hire a sys admin just to keep Coppedge out of their business.

I think it's close to universal that a company doesn't have to "justify" firing an employee.  There is "firing for cause" which usually involves violence, drugs, absenteeism, etc but when it comes to a layoff, you're either in or you're out.

Coppedge didn't keep up his skills and made himself obsolete.

I think the real story is how the Disco Tute most likely engineered both suits, provided Coppedge with legal counsel and who knows what promises.  Maybe 79 virgin Casey Luskin's. Hey, you never know!

Date: 2012/04/30 16:32:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, kn0808, how's this for an argument:

Fuck You!

Date: 2012/04/30 19:32:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dembski himself, or as Dave Scott (Esq.) would say "his own self" wrote that the Explanatory Filter doesn't work, he can't make it work, he can't figure it out and he's given up on it.

The only thing the fucker Dembski does consistently is LIE!

So, little Twerp Pastor-to-Be, if that's what you are, you're getting a great education by one of the most despicable, roundly derided, self-made loser (Univ. of Chicago to Baylor to Big Seminary to Little Seminary to unaccredited bum-fuck diploma mill) pathological lying fuckwit sociopaths on the planet!  Congratulations!

Oh, btw, I think you tallied your 10 responses so you'll get at least a "C" in Dembski's class on Totally Fucking Useless Shit.

Date: 2012/05/05 11:46:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
A finer dingleberry I never knew.

Date: 2012/05/31 08:29:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Another "Darwin on Trial" mechanical engineer from Arkansas, aka future DI senior fellow.

Date: 2012/06/08 06:11:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wasn't Mario their IT guy for a while?  Also haven't heard from Anika "the tank" Smith for a while. I guess they finally found real jobs. Too bad about Luskin.

Date: 2012/06/08 08:06:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Why does it have less shoulder hair than me?  That's what I want to know!

Date: 2012/06/08 11:07:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Don't forget Carolyn Crocker!

David Coppedge will be on the payroll soon.

Date: 2012/06/21 12:38:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill

The DI's stated, written objective is nothing short of the "renewal" of American culture and science to incorporate a Biblical Christian worldview in everything that's done.

No, the DI does not care about science one whit which is why they employ the witless (Klinkleklopper, Luskin the Gerbil, Axe, Gauger, et al).

"My granddaddy ain't no monkey" is just their way of keeping the flaps of the big tent open wide enough to fleece the credulous and feeble minded.  Alas, those people would be most of our elected representatives!

Date: 2012/06/22 19:13:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is Jammer JoeG, or Josep, Mullens or FL?

Seriously, Jammer's posts are quite stupid.

So, Jam baby, what is your explanation for information in non-living substances.

Take a granite outcrop near Tulsa, Oklahoma.  Any information in the granite?  Hmmm?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Date: 2012/06/23 11:13:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
All of it makes me feel like puking but the last paragraph especially. No comments are allowed on that article at ENV, as usual. Who's actually the coward? Who's actually fleeing from a fair fight?

What's really bothering klinghoffer is that people are allowed to post challenging, dissenting comments at Amazon and he can't stop them.

Klinkerklanker is being way too modest when he points out that his fellow creationist and scammer, Dougie Axywaxy, has published in a PEER-REVIEWED journal!  Yeah, take that, bitches!

And not just Any PEER-REVIEWED Journal, but the esteemed

B-I-O   C-O-M-P-L-E-X-I-T-Y

(an unholy owned on-line journal of the Discovery Institute and Biologic Labs (also unholy owned by the Discovery Institute) whose managing director is Dougie Axywaxy and 40% of the articles written, reviewed, and peered at by Dougie Axywaxy, and that peering was really, really reviewed, I swear.)  Haven't these guys heard of Facebook?

The remaining 60% of the articles "published" to date were written by members of the Editorial Board, a peeringly fine board of peers that ever peered at a review.  Srsly.

Date: 2012/06/27 15:30:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Over at Evo Snooze, old Dembski dropped that he's moving his family to Iowa.

Hmmm, I thought he had a new job at Bubba's Bible Kollege, Hair Care and Tire Emporium in North Carolina.

Change o' plans?

Date: 2012/06/27 21:06:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I like "Dr." Jammer, a cute little creationist credential inflating peckerwood!  Such pure delusion.

Dembski had his chance to shine at Kitzmiller.  TMLC had the chance, with Dr. Dr. helping to apply the original Vice, later changed to Vise (spelling has never been a strength of Dembski, well, along with all intellectual disciplines) to the Darwinidiots, alas, fail.

Dembski sat in on Barbara Forrest's deposition and by all accounts nearly passed out and threw up.  Barbara had his ass nailed to the wall and he knew it.  Dembski ran back to the Motel 6, packed his bags and didn't even leave the light on.  There was this great whooshing sound as Dr. Dr. beat cheeks out of town.

Of course, little peckerwood, you were only in the 5th grade at that time so how would you know anything about shinola, hmmm?

Consider this, "Dr." Peckerwood, big bad "intelligent design" creationism heavyweight double-doctor Dembski, adult and all that, is still going whaaaaaa-whaaaaaa about a trial he didn't even participate in that happened SEVEN FREAKING YEARS AGO!  But, who knows, maybe he has some microscopic Christian-ish trace of a conscience that nags him about what a lying coward he is.  By the way, I wonder if he drank that bottle of scotch?  That's probably nagging him, too.

Date: 2012/06/28 00:42:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (keiths @ June 28 2012,00:14)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 27 2012,19:33)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 27 2012,21:06)
I like "Dr." Jammer, a cute little creationist credential inflating peckerwood!  Such pure delusion.

Dembski had his chance to shine at Kitzmiller.  TMLC had the chance, with Dr. Dr. helping to apply the original Vice, later changed to Vise (spelling has never been a strength of Dembski, well, along with all intellectual disciplines) to the Darwinidiots, alas, fail.

Dembski sat in on Barbara Forrest's deposition and by all accounts nearly passed out and threw up.  Barbara had his ass nailed to the wall and he knew it.  Dembski ran back to the Motel 6, packed his bags and didn't even leave the light on.  There was this great whooshing sound as Dr. Dr. beat cheeks out of town.

Of course, little peckerwood, you were only in the 5th grade at that time so how would you know anything about shinola, hmmm?

Consider this, "Dr." Peckerwood, big bad "intelligent design" creationism heavyweight double-doctor Dembski, adult and all that, is still going whaaaaaa-whaaaaaa about a trial he didn't even participate in that happened SEVEN FREAKING YEARS AGO!  But, who knows, maybe he has some microscopic Christian-ish trace of a conscience that nags him about what a lying coward he is.  By the way, I wonder if he drank that bottle of scotch?  That's probably nagging him, too.

I don't know, one can buy rather a large number of bottles of good single-malt scotch with over $20,000 in fees extracted out of a group of people who fired you. Choosing between narratives of selfless heroism (protecting the interests of the Foundation for Thought and Ethics) and persecution (evil Darwinists hounded me or incompetent lawyers fired me!) might become a bit blurred, let alone the question of whether to deprive folks putatively on your own side of that much working capital.

Hmmm, somebody ought to forward Dembski's article to Richard Thompson of TMLC to see whether he agrees with Dembski's assessment of his legal acumen. Who knows, maybe Thompson could figure out a way ("defamation" might be a relevant keyword) to get back his $20,000+.

I think Dembski's given up hope for any future victories, and is focused on rewriting history instead.

Well, maybe Dr. Dr. will be successful at rewriting history.

To date he's only been successful at getting himself fired from jobs!

Date: 2012/06/28 00:47:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ June 27 2012,18:38)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 27 2012,16:30)
Over at Evo Snooze, old Dembski dropped that he's moving his family to Iowa.

Hmmm, I thought he had a new job at Bubba's Bible Kollege, Hair Care and Tire Emporium in North Carolina.

Change o' plans?

You neglected to mention just how badly he must have gotten spanked by Miller in that conference.

"I didn't quit from Dover, I was fired!"

Could it be that he sees his increasing irrelevance as ID continues to fade?

Ah, well, more on that later I hope!  My friend and no relation, author John Farrell, was at the conference and "witnessed" in a non-Biblical fashion the entire fracas.

Should be some fun when John, Ken Miller and Barbara Forrest put their notes together about Dembski's narrative.

More fun than a barrel of Luskins, as they say.

Date: 2012/06/28 15:55:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Science and Culture

Is that like the Clerow Wilson Junior Research Professor of What's Happenin' Now?

Only funny-peculiar instead of funny-ha-ha.

Date: 2012/06/29 19:11:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
And another ID award recipient from an undisclosed secret location:

an award honoring college graduates for excellence in student advocacy of intelligent design (ID) the "Casey Luskin Graduate Award."

The first recipient of said award was ... Casey Luskin!

So, not only do the Discoveryoids publish their own journals and books but they invent awards that they give to themselves.  Cool.

Date: 2012/06/29 23:18:40, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I neglected to report in my previous posting that the Casey Luskin Graduate Award of Excellence included a certificate (suitable for framing), a purple ribbon (Participation) and a hand job from Luskin himself.

Alas, the first recipient was, um, Luskin ...

Never mind.

Date: 2012/07/04 18:12:10, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What is totally astounding is that Sewell is STILL pushing his backwards tornado 2nd Law of Thermo argument.  That puts him in league with Hunter for the Intelligent Design Creationism Certifiably Insane Participation Ribbon.

Who knows, maybe Slimy Sal's brain started functioning for a microsecond or so.  Of course, the IDiots will come to Sewell's defense and throw Sal under the short bus.

Alas, poor Sal, we knew him well.  Abbie sends hugs.

Date: 2012/07/04 20:01:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can only imagine that Sal had a moment of clarity, like an Alzheimer's patient.  Just a second where he realized that ID was all crap and Sewell was the rectum.

Will Sal stand his ground? Will the ID mongrels rally around Sewell?  Will Jen find true love?  

Who knows?

Date: 2012/07/05 12:07:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's fascinating that Kreationist Krackpot Sewell is getting beat up by Cordova.

Never thought I'd see the day!

What's next, FtK going after FL?

Date: 2012/07/05 20:37:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Badger3k @ July 05 2012,20:33)
Quote (olegt @ July 05 2012,20:01)
Can you guess who wrote [URL=

I’m a very simple person, au fond. I play Chopin on the piano, write artificially intelligent computer programs as a hobby, and earn my living as a software engineer in aerospace R&D.


H0M0!!!! ones !!1111

Date: 2012/07/07 10:32:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I predict Paul's response to Ann the Man will go down the memory hole.

First, Paul sank Gauger using her own words.

Second, the thread immediately sank into Bible Babble, other than the astute comment by "Joe" that population genetics doesn't apply to evolution by design, whatever the hell that means.  Oh, I think it means "nanny nanny boo boo."

It was also nice to see Paul call out Ann for being an impolite coward by referring to "some critics" as if more than one person on the planet has bothered to wade through her dreck.

Thank you, Paul!

Date: 2012/07/07 12:44:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Paulmc really stirred them up!

Now Attack Gerbil Second class Luskin is on the "attack" with a spirited (meaning he drank a bottle of gin) defense of his paleoanthropological chops.

Defense, attack?  Who knows when it's the Gerb.

Well, actually Gerbkin doesn't do either.  He simply shrugs and says, "It's really, really, really, really, really complicated.  I mean, have you ever looked at your hand, man?  I mean, REALLY looked?"

Date: 2012/07/07 13:11:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What is funny is that Luskin's "discussion" will be 6 times longer than his stupid chapter in his stupid book.

Because all you have to do is find a quote from a scientist that says "blah blah" and weigh in with your squeaky little gerb-voice.

Wankers a-weigh!

Date: 2012/07/07 19:48:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Ann lives in the "creationist world" and the rest of us don't.

Of course Ann will attack you with whatever she can because you kicked her in the balls.  Ironically, Ann Gauger has more balls than Luskin or Axe, but that's another story, as Louis once told me over 3 bottles of saki.

Notice how the rest of the UDders are jumping on you for jumping on Ann the Mann without addressing your points.  That's how it will go.  Jump, pounce, whine and flounce.  UD in a nutters shell.

Hang in there and enjoy the ride and if you can work them up to an aneurism or something good on you.

Date: 2012/07/08 14:46:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ July 08 2012,09:16)
Quote (paulmc @ July 07 2012,18:39)
Another layer of WTF - Gauger just admitted she wrote her Biologic piece accusing me of misunderstanding without having read the review.

This is the same Gauger who admonished others for exactly the same thing regarding her book previously.

And nullasalus and kuartus immediately leap to her defense.  These guys are as bad as the regulars at PZ Myers' blog (yeah, I said that).

You also got an insightful response from Joe, I see.  Someone needs to send him back to the kids' table while the grownups are talking.

And what a surprise, the discussion is totally off topic with Joe inventing stuff out of thin air and poor old Jared talking to a brick wall.

Or, another day at UD!

Date: 2012/07/08 16:55:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Cue Joe to flounce in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ...

Date: 2012/07/08 18:07:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
OMG, this can't last long!  Someone just pointed Joe to a site at a *gasp* UNIVERSITY!

Paging Dense-O!  Paging Dense-O!  Cleanup on Aisle 5!

Date: 2012/07/09 07:22:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Joe can haz a meltdown.

Do I also beat my wife? What am I thinking now? What flavour gum am I chewing? Trick question because I just usually throw in a small handful of different flavoured gumballs- but hey you knew that already I am sure.

Date: 2012/07/09 08:02:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (OgreMkV @ July 09 2012,07:37)
Quote (Doc Bill @ July 09 2012,07:22)
Joe can haz a meltdown.

Do I also beat my wife? What am I thinking now? What flavour gum am I chewing? Trick question because I just usually throw in a small handful of different flavoured gumballs- but hey you knew that already I am sure.

Kind of like how much energy is released when 1 mol of water converts from a gas to a liquid?

Trick questions like that one Joe?

Kind of like ice and water being two different things.

Kind of like Joe being asked to give an example of an assertion he just made.  Oh, wait ...

"How dares you reassert my assertion!"

Date: 2012/07/16 08:39:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Corny has to be mental.  And, like Jon Davison, he would end up talking to himself if he banned people.

Date: 2012/07/19 20:17:28, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Doc Bill is not shy and jumps in to bite Klinghoffer's ass.  It was not good, btw:

Hey, Klinghoffer, remember when Abbie Smith kicked Behe's balls up around his ears for a lie he published in Edge? Remember that? It was embarrassing because Behe was sloppy and left comments open on Amazon and Abbie got in there and tore Behe a new one. Behe recanted, remember? He admitted he "made a mistake" when we all knew he lied. You might want to call Mikey and ask him how long it took him to get over being pwnd by a "graduate" student, who are awesome creatures, by the way. You're there right now. You've been caught in a lie and you need to pwn up to it or suffer. Personally, I prefer you suffer but I'm a bad person.

Date: 2012/07/19 23:22:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill

I think they got a call from Behe who was having Abbie Smith nightmares!

How much of a sociopath do you have to be to open up a social media page on FaceBook then ban people who visit your page?

Sick, I tell you.  I wouldn't their mum or the horse she rode in on.  OK, maybe the horse.

Date: 2012/07/23 19:57:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It's Zimmer game, set and match!

Took out both Klinghoffer, aka, Klinkletinkle and Luskin, aka, The Gerb.

Totally screwed, blued and tattooed!

Major Fail at the Disco Tute but don't worry, kiddies, the Tutes will be back with their latest hits, that is, their past hits again soon at a creationist church basement near you.

So, Luskin was shown up as the liar he is, and Klinkletinkle was shown up as the ... well, what is Klinkletinkle?  Not so much a liar as a guy with a small penis and a big mouth.  His favorite song must be "Satisfaction."  Just saying.

Date: 2012/07/24 14:55:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I was quite a bit less scientific and provided no references with my banning comment:

"Nanny nanny boo boo, you can't ban me!!"

Date: 2012/07/24 22:05:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, the evil Paul McBride said nothing, NOTHING nor provided any evidence or CITATIONS about the evolution of enzymes.

Oh, what????

Date: 2012/07/25 16:09:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Kattarina98 @ July 25 2012,15:01)
Gerb is deeply hurt: Zimmer has misrepresented him. Isn't it true that the telomeric DNA at the fusion sites is degenerate?
And besides, as for an actual fusion of chromosomes, he's "very open to that".

Again, my main argument about chromosomal fusion isn't that there's no fusion -- it's that if there is fusion, that doesn't demonstrate human/ape common ancestry.

My bolding

I was tempted to start a poll: After last week's discussion all over the internet, does he still not understand the point, or is he confident his readers still don't understand the point?


"Simply a douchebag." would have to be a poll choice.

Date: 2012/07/26 09:03:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
"ID, in its purest sense, has nothing to say."

Fixed it.

Date: 2012/08/02 21:50:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Gerb got his furry little ass kicked to oblivion by an actual science writer, Carl Zimmer, and a few friends on the Loom.

Axe and Gauger, (are they a couple?  I'm thinking 69 on a lab bench.  Do you think Ann does Brazilian or is Axe a carpet lover?  Inquiring minds want to know!)

Anyway, I forgot where I was.

Date: 2012/08/14 12:44:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How can you be moribund on Facebook?

BIO-magick seems to have achieved it!  About 200 "likes" and no comments or postings in weeks. Sums up the state of ID, I'd say.

Date: 2012/08/31 16:31:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Lou FCD @ Aug. 31 2012,15:45)
I'm game, either way.

And Gordo is gamey.  Either way.

Date: 2012/09/01 20:45:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (keiths @ Sep. 01 2012,19:52)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 01 2012,15:13)
OK. I've been hearing search for a search for years and just tuned it out as  bullshit. Can someone play devil's advocate and put the best possible face on this? Explain how it could possibly be relevant?

I'm not joking.

Okay, here's my best straight-faced attempt at presenting Dembski's argument:
1.  A search is a process which attempts to find targets within a larger space of possibilities.

2.  A search can be run over and over.  Each time it is run, it "lands on" one point in the space of possibilities.  If that point is one of the targets, then the search has succeeded.  If the landing point is not a target, then the search has failed.

3.  A blind search is one in which the "landing point" is chosen purely at random out of the space of possibilities, without favoring any points over others.

4.  If the possibility space is huge and the target space is tiny, then a blind search will rarely succeed. The odds of hitting the target are just too low.  In other words, the cost of finding the target is high with a blind search.

5.  If we use a better search, we improve the odds of hitting the target.  In other words, we can reduce the cost of finding the target by employing a better search.

6.  However, finding a better search is itself a search ("the search for a search").  It has its own cost, which must be factored in.

7.  The total cost of finding a target therefore includes both the cost of the search plus the cost of the "search for a search".

8.  According to the Law of Conservation of Information, this total cost is always greater than or equal to the cost of finding the target through a blind search.  One way or another, you have to pay the piper in order to find the target.

9.  Evolution is a search:  it looks for viable organisms (the targets) within the much larger space of possible organisms.

10.  Evolution obviously cannot succeed as a blind search, because the target space is too small relative to the possibility space.  However, evolution uses the fitness landscape as a source of information to zero in on the target space. (A designer may also inject information at crucial moments.)

11.  The fitness landscape doesn't come for free. The total cost of the evolutionary search has to include the cost of the information contained in the fitness landscape.

12.  The Law of Conservation of Information tells us that the total cost of the evolutionary search, including the cost of the information contained in the fitness landscape, equals or exceeds the cost of a blind search.

13.  Purely material processes don't generate information.  They merely rearrange information that was already there. Therefore, no material process can "buy" you a fitness landscape.  

14.  Thus, the information in the fitness landscape comes from an immaterial intelligence.  (And so does any information that is injected along the way.)

15.  Without this information, evolution could not succeed.  

16.  One way or another, then, evolution depends for its success on information generated by an immaterial intelligence.

It's riddled with holes, but that, to the best of my knowledge, is the argument that Dembski is actually making.

I think I can better summarize Dembski's argument:


Date: 2012/09/02 13:36:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 02 2012,11:44)
Unless I'm missing something, evolution is blind. But it uses Braille to feel it's way around. Never far from it's current homeostatic position.

Over at TSZ a surfing metaphor was suggested. The landscape changes and undulates, and evolution is continually falling, without changing its level. It is always in equilibrium.

So Gould's paradox of punctuated equilibrium is an artifact of environtmental change.

Yeah, you're missing the point that without the earch-say you don't need an odd-gay.  Shhhhhh, it's a secret!

If nature can feel her own way (down, Louis!) then there's no need for You-Know-Who!

Date: 2012/09/09 11:31:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
“I’ve asked some really good lawyers and nobody knows the answer,” Becker said. “One lawyer told me it’s as long as he wants to take. It could take a year, two years.”

Really good lawyers, eh?  What, unlike himself or the flacks he normally hangs around with?  

Really, really, like, good, lawyers.

I assume the judge could rule against Coppedge with no comment.  Simply, "no, go away."

For anyone out there with experience in these kinds of wrongful termination cases, is Coppedge typical?

Date: 2012/10/31 21:26:41, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hi, Gary!

Happy to see you return to planet Earth, sort of.

However, you seem to still be a fucking moron.

Sorry about that.  I highly recommend alcoholism as a treatment.  Contact Joe G and the other denizens of UD for details.

Fuck you and a pox on you, you pretentious twit,


Date: 2012/11/25 10:51:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Simple discussion.

Items 1 through 7 are total bullshit.

End of discussion.

Next thread.

Date: 2012/11/25 23:26:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, Jerry Don, you're what I call a "fucking idiot."  That's a regular idiot who's not worth messing with.

No, I'm not going to go point by point into your fucking idiocy because it's fucking idiocy.

First of all, if you don't have a PhD in Physics or Chemistry and have earned a B+ or better in Quantum Electrodynamics II or III then you have no fucking privilege to use the word "quantum" in anything you write.  No, sorry, Bible 101 is not good enough, nor is a subscription to Discovery magazine.

In case you are unsure of the term "bullshit" which is an academic term, I suggest you read the book "On Bullshit" to find out where you stand.

Sorry, but the best I can do is mock you by saying fuck you and the horse you rode in on, whom I hope was a mare.  Just saying.

p.s.  And, yes, I am a lot smarter than you.

Date: 2012/11/26 00:04:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This guy is FL, right?  Same dude?

Totally fucking stupid beyond all redemption.

I thought so.

Sorry you're stupid, Don, buy some crayons. They're fun!

Date: 2012/11/26 07:30:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I need to work on my style.  I think I came across as mocking when I was trying to be mocking AND uncivil AND insulting.

Really, though, where have all the good creationists gone?  I almost miss Floyd these days, ya know whut I mean, Vern?

Date: 2012/11/26 15:52:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dumb Fuck wrote:

No, I had rather have you back up your arguments with some evidence, please. That would be most helpful

Yeah, just like every other lying, stinking, dishonest creationist I've ever dealt with.  "Peel me a grape, Beaulah."

Too stupid, too dishonest, too immoral and just plain too thick to do a 5-second Google search.  Seriously, even FtK is better than this guy!

Larry, order me a pizza!

Date: 2012/11/27 20:22:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That diagram needs to be immortalized!  Luskin really nails ID in one picture:  a made up dot that requires an arrow pointing to it on a made up chart with a made up dotted line running through it.

Fiction and turtles all the way down.  Way to go, Gerb, right up there with Behe's mousetrap and Dembski's filter!

As an enhancement, Gerb should have Meyers write his name in the box then he'd have a hat-trick with Signature in the Cell, and indisputable at that!

Date: 2012/11/29 23:22:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
So, this is like Joe G and FtK on a date.

Uh, l8r, folks, I need to take a shower!

Date: 2012/11/30 12:29:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 29 2012,23:30)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Nov. 29 2012,23:22)
So, this is like Joe G and FtK on a date.

Uh, l8r, folks, I need to take a shower!

Yes you need to take a shower. Even your reply stinks, really bad.

Awww, poor widdle fuckwit is angwy!  Boo hoo!

Just because Jerry gets to be JoeG and you have to squeeze into a pair of FtK's overalls you feelwings is hurt!

Try singing "I Feel Pretty" to yourself and you'll be OK.

Date: 2012/11/30 15:17:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What did you expect from an FtK impersonator?

Date: 2012/11/30 17:29:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Embryos are about $1000 a pop and lab assistants are a dime a dozen.  Simple economics.

Date: 2012/11/30 19:04:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm getting confused!  Whose thread is this, anyway?

Joe G's or FtK's?

Seriously, you two, get a room!

Date: 2012/12/01 20:18:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Considering that Gary-JoeG is trolling on Jerry-FtK's thread is the sign of a truly master bullshitter!  I commend you, sir, for hijacking a fellow bullshitter's thread with your own bullshit.

If only we could convince Jerry-FtK to troll on your thread, Joey baby, we could be entertained with some real tard-on-tardette action.

One can dream.

Date: 2012/12/02 13:50:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, great, just great.  Now we have an FtK impersonator doing a GaryG impersonation of JoeG!

It always comes down to Joe "the Null set is not a set" G, doesn't it.

Let's see Ftk as Gary doing Joe G writes, ah hem, "lol ... lol ... LOL ... smiley face ... shocked face ... lol ... lol ... lol"

What disappoints me about Jerry the Dog-faced Boy bullshitter is how predictable and BORING is the bullshit.  I mean, he/she doesn't even try to be as eloquent as Davison or grumpy like Batshit77 or touchy like FL or flouncy like FtK.  

Nope, just drool and farts and stained panties.  At least JoeG had the common decency to get all liquored up, ignore his spell checker and entertain us with pure spittle-flecked idiocy, unlike this current batch of limp-dicked, dribbling wankers.

Kids these days, I dunno.

Date: 2012/12/02 14:29:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
JerryBobby FtK-impersonator channels Kansan dialect:

an ape has to cross the get-go line and birth a human

Sad, first the mind goes, then the grammar.

Did you mean the Get-n-Go line, JerryBillyBobby?  I know for a fact that in Kansas if you "cross the Get-n-Go line" then Gupta will give you a real telling to!  There is no line crossing in this store, he will tell you!

You know, by hecky, I don't know much about birthin' humans but the Real FtK ™ could tell you all about hatchin' herons and how precious their little fuzzy lives are.

But getting serious for a moment, and I realize you have a hard time with words but I'll be patient while you Google this, but tell me, JerryBillyBobby, what leads you to assume a Gaussian distribution in your calculations?

Why not a Poisson distribution or a Bernoulli distribution which, it seems to me, would fit better with the definition of CSI?

Hmmmmm?  Inquiring minds want to know!  I really don't expect a reasonable answer because your shit-for-brain has no way to understand anything beyond "lol" and you won't find a cut-n-paste answer even at Get-n-Go.

Date: 2012/12/02 16:50:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, JerryBillyBobby, do you assume in your calculations a Gaussian distribution?  What leads you to that conclusion and how can you demonstrate you are correct?

What's wrong with using a Poisson distribution or more aptly a Bernoulli distribution especially with CSI?

Why do you say the units of CSI are "bits?"  A bit is a BInary digiT, or Binary digIT, depending on chirality but it represents a state (no, not Kansas) not a quantity.

Come on, Jer, regale us.

Date: 2012/12/02 20:28:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, JerryBillyBobby, do you assume in your calculations a Gaussian distribution?  What leads you to that conclusion and how can you demonstrate you are correct?

What's wrong with using a Poisson distribution or more aptly a Bernoulli distribution especially with CSI?

Why do you say the units of CSI are "bits?"  A bit is a BInary digiT, or Binary digIT, depending on chirality but it represents a state (no, not Kansas) not a quantity.

Come on, Jer, regale us.  Seriously.  Purty Please?

Date: 2012/12/02 20:30:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I am very disappointed, GeryBobbyBillyJoe!

I thought you'd have a link to the Cartoon Network.

Wazzamatta U?

Date: 2012/12/03 16:50:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
JerryJoeDonBillyBob bullshitting bloviator, jack of all things OFF and all-round idiot on any subject under the Sun, including the Sun channeling JoeG wrote:
energy and particles are exactly the same thing.

While you're channeling Gary or JoeG or GaryBillyBobJoeG perhaps you could address the following:

Is the null set a set?
Is water and ice the same thing?
Is a single molecule of H2O water?
Is hair growing on the palms of your hands?
Has a guy named Lenny ever bought you a pizza?
Do you like berries; blue, black, rasp and/or dingle?

There is a prize for correct answers.

Date: 2012/12/04 22:01:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, well, our Dunning-Kruger poster child, FtK impersonator, cross-dressing, hairy-palmed, lubed up  JerryBillyBobBettyLouLou has not only jumped the shark but jumped the shark ON a shark!

HillbillyJerryBilly blew past stupid and ignorant, right through fantasy and into his very own Creationist Sociopath Land where dinosaurs build arks and Noah has 72 virgin wives.


Well, JerryBillyBob, it's not surprising that you didn't answer my only straight question about Gaussian distributions because it's something you'd have to actually understand rather than look up on Google.  Bet you got raw fingers working that one out, but I'm sure your fingers are well-saturated with Jerkins lotion that it's not a problem.

As for "QM" as you call it, you know, dumb fuck, "QM" is a framework, like the calculus, not a process.  So, you saying that "QM" is the "intelligence of the universe" is like saying "calculus is the intelligence of the universe."  It's a stoopid thing to say, but not if your are FUCKING STOOPID.  Maybe you sound smart to your dumb shit friends but you certainly are a chew-toy, hoot for us!  You really could be an FtK-JoeG with a little practice.

So, slow clap for you, JerryBillyStoopidBob.  Does it hurt to be so stupid and clueless that you think you are a fucking Einstein?  Know what ah mean, ya fuckwit, lol, lol, LOL, smiley face?

Date: 2012/12/05 15:32:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, JerryVonFtKCrossdresser, you never answered my Original Question about choice of distributions.

Gaussian, Poisson or Bernoulli and why.  Should be simple.  I could answer it in a sentence - without math!

I know you hate math.

Also, have you figured out that Queue Emm is only a framework like the word "color" and to say that Auntie Emm did something is like saying color did something?

Perhaps we need a poll, a general consensus to determine if you, JimmyBobbyFtKay-ee, are stupider than the most stupid tard to ever grace this forum, you buddy Gary's alter-ego, Joe "ice is not water" G.

Seriously, you may be the dumbest fuck to ever represent dumb fuckery and that's saying something.

However, give it your lone neuron's best shot at answering my little questions and maybe I'll post something nicer about you.

p.s.  I ain't holdin' mah breath, you miserable little peckerwood.  Ya, know whut ah mean, Vern?  L.O.L.

Date: 2012/12/05 16:34:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Wouldn't that be

How Up to Fuck a Sentence

grammatically speaking, of course.

I think we should award these boobs Chopras for every time they misuse the words quantum, quanta or Quantas.  The units of the Chopra being negative woos.

One has to earn one's spurs to use the Q-word.  I earned mine by getting a 4 on a QM3 mid-term exam, earning me a B for the semester.  Yes, that's a 4 out of 100.  The high score was 10 and we called that cat Son of Bohr.  So, you can appreciate why I'm a little tender when bohunks start throwing around quantum-this and quantum-that and none of the fuckers paid their dues.  No, they dint!

Date: 2012/12/05 17:00:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Jerry Don Bauer @ Dec. 05 2012,16:08)
Quote (JohnW @ Dec. 05 2012,15:49)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 05 2012,13:32)
Hey, JerryVonFtKCrossdresser, you never answered my Original Question about choice of distributions.

Gaussian, Poisson or Bernoulli and why.  Should be simple.  I could answer it in a sentence - without math!

I know you hate math.

Also, have you figured out that Queue Emm is only a framework like the word "color" and to say that Auntie Emm did something is like saying color did something?

Perhaps we need a poll, a general consensus to determine if you, JimmyBobbyFtKay-ee, are stupider than the most stupid tard to ever grace this forum, you buddy Gary's alter-ego, Joe "ice is not water" G.

Seriously, you may be the dumbest fuck to ever represent dumb fuckery and that's saying something.

However, give it your lone neuron's best shot at answering my little questions and maybe I'll post something nicer about you.

p.s.  I ain't holdin' mah breath, you miserable little peckerwood.  Ya, know whut ah mean, Vern?  L.O.L.

Not remotely as stupid as Joe.  But it's possible to travel a long, long way from "as stupid as Joe" and still not have left Stupidland.

I see the current Jerry/Gary droolings as a step towards the long-anticipated Grand Unification of Tard, as the Two Stooges attempt to merge ID and quantum quackery.  Once they've succesfully combined creationism and Choprawoo, I'm sure they'll be working with Joe on incoporating climate-change denialism, pyramidiocy and associated tinfoilhattery.  Then they'll finally have achieved the Tard Theory of Everything.

Let me guess...the MORE debates you guys so obviously lose to people, so OBVIOUSLY so, even to the less informed readers, the STUPIDER your opponents get, right??  :D  :O  :D

Yeah, you're down now to where ONLY about 10% of the students who study this Darwinism crap accept it from a naturalistic perspective.

It won't be long until you're left holding your pollywogs in one hand, your worthless PhDs in nothing in the other,  wondering why 100% of the world suddenly got stupid.

Hey, they musta all went nuts and you guys are the only sane people left!

So, Jer, old fruit, how about those distribution models?

You're going to duck this question, aren't you.  Very naughty to try to hide from the Achilles' Heel of your entire Queue Emmness.

Have you ever considered that another problem you face in your (echo chamber) Queue Emm Theory of Everything (end echo chamber) is that framastatic condensation is going to cause your timescale to slip as entropy increases (by the obvious generation of multicellular, complex organisms and ecology) but framastatic expansion will cause your timescale to compress by the same algorithm such that the net energy of the process will be zero.  Granted, energy must be inserted into the equation at the beginning but it is extracted at the end yielding a differential of zero, although the measure of work in the entire system will be positive.  I just thought that was an interesting consequence.

Date: 2012/12/05 21:07:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I can testify that mating with a Chihuahua is difficult but not impossible.

Well, a friend of mine told me this.  Actually, his cousin who was a quantum mechanic.  So I was told.

Date: 2012/12/06 14:58:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Why is this happening on JerryBillyBobFtK's thread when GaryBillyBobJoeG has his own thread to wank into?

Why doesn't JerryBillyBobFtK tell GaryBillyBobJoeG to get off his lawn?

Inquiring minds what to know!

Date: 2012/12/06 18:55:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 06 2012,18:15)
Quote (olegt @ Dec. 06 2012,11:26)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 06 2012,09:30)
A String Theory based model would have a RAM with data for producing the behavior of strings.

Could you be a little more specific about that? What theory will be used to compute "the behavior of strings"? How would the computation be done? What will be the dimension of the Hilbert space and what methods will you use to diagonalize matrices? If it is not numerical diagonalization, will you use quantum Monte Carlo?

Enquiring minds want to know.

I would say that the IA is more of a Monte Carlo from cognitive science that must work a certain way and use intelligence related vocabulary and such, but should still work for quantum entities too.

From what I know about MC, the IA is better categorized as that than an AE even though above all things the IA must be a "cognitive model" that works for neural brains as well, therefore not all Monte Carlo's are an IA. It's here always the designing of a (ro)bot with sensory for awareness of its environment.

You can probably also easily enough substitute a neural network for the electronic digital RAM that I use for an example due to (for speed) computer models needing to work with computer RAM chips which digitally address memory data bits. Can also use Arnold Trehub's synaptic matrix ideas, to help reduce memory requirements with analog weights. But getting neural slows it down. What I explain makes it as fast as it can go on a computer, and is more like how RNA and DNA memory is coded.  

I would not be surprise by much of the number-crunching code for the model already written and tested, I expect it. If physicists who figure out how simple the IA model actually is then say something like "Eureka! He's just talking about a MC!" then a MC it is, too. But you would have to be the one to determine that, based upon how long it takes to turn it into an Intelligence Design Lab that should come out looking like this (but maybe need to include well labeled line chart for confidences and total memories else never hear the end of it):

Thats the way it works. You can here conceptualize all particles or other entity as insect like pop-art thingies that sense whats's around them (with whatever you give them to sense location of something with) that move around using simple round motor wheels/wings/thrusters which turn bright white when on full blast. You can shape it to reflect what is modeling such as a string-like entity between two X,Y,Z points in 3D space, then you get long thin critters with eye-like sensed environment readout on each end. There would also still be a Design and Addressing form (not shown) to change parameters with. Best not to use other names (not needed) only makes things no longer easily intuitive across multidisciplinary fields. You can tell you got it right, when no matter what you do it still looks like it belongs on Planet Source Code too...

Oh, please, I can't stand it any more, Wes!

Confess it's you!  Please!  Really, it's too cruel!  I give up.

Date: 2012/12/06 21:12:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Clueless fuckwit wrote:  
One of the Baldwin Effect lines perhaps.

Alec or Stephen?

Date: 2012/12/07 16:27:33, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 06 2012,21:42)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 06 2012,21:12)
Clueless fuckwit wrote:  
One of the Baldwin Effect lines perhaps.

Alec or Stephen?

If you have a problem with that then you have no idea what the potentially species altering Baldwin Effect is, or how it could here be displayed. But if you can explain it so much better then go ahead, enlighten me.

You see, GaryBillyBobDumbFuck, one of your many, many problems is that not only are you ignorant but you are incurious, too.  I had to LOL that you, Supreme Programmer of the Universe (self-proclaimed) had never heard of a Monte Carlo simulation and quoted a Wiki article as if that made up for your dumbfuckery.  It didn't.

And, once again, you toss out a term you have only casual acquaintance with, the Baldwin Effect, without knowing anything whatsoever about either the Effect or the esteemed Baldwin family.

You see, GaryBillyBobDumbFuck, one of the things you learn in graduate school is not only the "thing," in this case the Baldwin Effect, but the people behind the "thing," in this case the Baldwins.  It must be lonely in your empty little head with all these facts and terms rattling around totally unconnected.  Does it hurt?

Unfortunately, you inadvertently stumbled on something that has been researched as an emergent property of underlying physics and chemistry by none other than the fascinating Baldwin family.  So, when I asked in my own way "which one" where I was referring to microscopic or macroscopic effects, obtusely, I agree, you demonstrated you usual ignorance and stupidity.  It deserves correction, though.

The Baldwin family emigrated to the United States from Nottingham, England in the mid 1850's:  Erasmus Edward Baldwin, RA, FRS, FCD (1838-1892) and his wife, Emma.  Their son, James Mark Baldwin (1861-1934) earned a PhD in Natural History and Philosophy from Princeton and was curator of the Museum of Natural History there for many years.

James Mark was the father of Alexander Rae Baldwin (1891-1960) who settled in New York state where he was a pharmacist.  Alexander plays a pivotal role in the Baldwin family history because he had twin boys:  Alexander Rae Baldwin, Jr. (1927-1983) and Stephen James Baldwin (1927-2002).  Alexander Junior went on to become a schoolteacher and lived in New York state.  Stephen James went on to become a medical doctor and surgeon living most of his life in Boston.

Now, this is the best part!

Alexander Rae Junior had a large family, four boys and two girls, I think, but two of the boys are well-known to this day.  Both Alec Baldwin (1958) and his brother, Stephen (1966) are actors and figure prominently in television, movies and the tabloids.

Lesser known are Stephen James' boys also named Alec (1959) and Stephen (1966) who were named after their cousins.  Alexander Junior and his twin brother Stephen were very close right up to Alexander's untimely death from cancer in 1983.  

However, the other Baldwin brothers took a different path with Alec earning a PhD in Microbiology and Stephen earning a double PhD in Evolutionary Biology and Psychology.  Alec works for the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta while Stephen is with the National Institute of Health in Maryland.  Both Baldwins have been instrumental in providing experimental support for their grandfather's work on what has become known as the Baldwin Effect.

At the CDC, Alec has published papers demonstrating an epigenetic emergent property resulting from mutations that lead to disease resistance in bacteria, in essence, a "culture communication" that hasn't been fully elucidated.  While over at the NIH Stephen has been researching how some plant populations seem to "outrun" drought conditions faster than random mutation and natural selection would allow.  Again, both Baldwins have extended their grandfather's work with Alec working on the microscopic scale and Stephen concentrating on macroscopic effects.  Both scientists are doing work on what they have called "population intelligence" which is an emergent property of underlying causes.  Whether "population intelligence" drives natural selection, is influenced by natural selection or is independent of it is not known at this time, although the results observed so far do not support "independent."

And that, as they say, is the rest of the story.  Science is really fascinating but not as fascinating as the people who do science and the twists and turns their families take.

Date: 2012/12/08 16:28:32, Link
Author: Doc Bill
GaryBillyBobDumbFuck wrote:
From what Google found it looks like you wrote the second to the last paragraph, not copy/past from something you found online.

Well of course I wrote it!  Only dumbfucks copy and paste from Wiki and call it "information" or an "argument" or a "rebuttal."  I sourced my information through my subscriptions to the NIH archives and I got some dates from with some help from friends I have at that company.  Ya see, Gary baby, it's contacts and resources that distinguishes a Real Scientist ™ like me from a miserable dog like you.

Anyway, your model sucks pond water mainly because you haven't even attempted to add any environmental feedback loops which looks simple enough to me to do.  No organism evolves as an island unto itself.  (The Archipelago Principle of Biogeography - look it up.)

Case in point is research done by S. Baldwin, J. Xu and Cleveland Tyler (NIH Letters, 2006, 2012) on the "Symbiotic Communication in the Distribution of Pinus taeda (Loblolly Pine) in an Extended Rhizome Field."  The trees in question are known as the "Lost Pines" of central Texas because they are genetically nearly identical to loblolly pines that grow in east Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma and Arkansas.  The "Lost Pines" near Bastrop, Texas are curious because they have had no obvious connection to the separated population for thousands and possibly hundreds of thousands of years.  Baldwin and Xu, however, document a symbiotic relationship with a mushroom rhizome common to south Texas much like the Armillaria ostoyae (honey mushroom) of Oregon that can grow to be hundreds of miles long subterraneanly.  These rhizomes form some of the largest organisms on the planet although a handful of individual rhizome fibers weigh only a few grams.

The rhizomes in question only inhabit loblolly pine forests although this particular rhizome has been traced from the Hill Country of Texas through the San Jacinto river basin and down to southeast Texas where it joins up with the main body.  Following the devastating fires in the Bastrop region a couple of years ago, the researchers noticed a huge increase in rhizome activity not only in the fire affected area but in the eastern pine forests, too, as if the regions stress was being felt or communicated several hundred miles away.

Coincidentally, or not, the eastern pines have dropped an inordinate  amount of seeds this year, as have the live oak trees with acorns - well documented - and these seeds are being carried to the fire-affected area by migrating grackles who flock in this region every year.

Why the increased rhizome activity hundreds of miles apart?  Why increased seed production?  Why have loblolly pines in the Bastrop forest recovered faster than other plant species?  Baldwin and Xu do not propose a mechanism but their research shows a high positive correlation with a 95% confidence interval that an undocumented interspecies symbiosis is occurring not only between species but between phyla.  I'll download a copy of this paper and, copyright restrictions permitting, will make it available.

But, for your model, you'll need to extend it to multiple bots with interacting parameters and feedback loops, positive and negative, that you can tinker with to simulate stress and reaction.  My thoughts.

Date: 2012/12/09 15:47:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't see the point in writing a book like this other than to say "we have a book coming out soon" and then forget about it.

Who's going to buy a $100-plus book of bullshit essays?

I can't imagine that Marks or Behe want a POS like this on their resume;  they get enough from their colleagues as it is.  It's not going to further Dr. Dr.'s "career" as an adjunct professor at a bible diploma mill.

So, no money, no bragging rights, no fame - what's the point?

Date: 2012/12/13 21:46:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Literature deprived GaryBillyBobDumbFuck wrote:

For the record, what does Panda’s Thumb have to say about how the human eye works?

That war is over ever since the Baldwin brothers wrote their definitive paper "Evolutionary Sequence of Optical Structures Confirmed by Comparative Genetic Analysis Across Vertebrate Orders via Venter-Hilbert Space Analysis", A. Baldwin, S. Baldwin, PNAS, Vol. 97, Issue 7, 2009, pp 1120-1189.  (Subscription required)

I assume you meant how it evolved, now how it works.  Every third grader on the planet knows how the eye works.  Hopefully, you're not that stupid, although I'm not holding my breath.

Date: 2012/12/13 22:50:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 13 2012,22:20)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 13 2012,21:46)
Literature deprived GaryBillyBobDumbFuck wrote:

For the record, what does Panda’s Thumb have to say about how the human eye works?

That war is over ever since the Baldwin brothers wrote their definitive paper "Evolutionary Sequence of Optical Structures Confirmed by Comparative Genetic Analysis Across Vertebrate Orders via Venter-Hilbert Space Analysis", A. Baldwin, S. Baldwin, PNAS, Vol. 97, Issue 7, 2009, pp 1120-1189.  (Subscription required)

I assume you meant how it evolved, now how it works.  Every third grader on the planet knows how the eye works.  Hopefully, you're not that stupid, although I'm not holding my breath.

I specifically need to know how the human (or vertebrate) eye works, especially how the photons are collected and other resolution related details.

It is there. But since what I found indicates a serious problem (also a separation of church and state issue) I thought I would let you find where that is mentioned, just in case I missed the very important self-correction which should be there by now.

Find a third-grader and ask them.

Quit bugging us with stupid third-grade questions.  This has already been done:

"ALGOL Model of Vertebrate Vision:  Image to Representation," S. Baldwin, NIH Review Letters, 2009, Vol. 45 Issue 11, pp 1123-1145 (Subscription required).

Date: 2012/12/14 18:10:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 14 2012,16:43)
The very first google result page has a link entitled

How the Fucking Vertebrate Retina Works, Gary, You Daft Git.

by Sigma Xi. I think I paraphrased the title slightly.

Somewhat OFF Topic but here on GaryJerryBillyBobFtKJoeG's thread I've sort of lost what ON Topic is.


Little known fact.

Steve Baldwin, the scientist, was the youngest person to ever be elected into Sigma Xi.  He was also the youngest person to be elected into the AAAS.  Too bad he can't act or he'd have a great future.

Date: 2012/12/15 20:28:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Dec. 15 2012,20:02)
successful troll is successful?

It's the Baldwin Effect.

Date: 2012/12/17 16:15:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 16 2012,20:04)
All I need right now though, is a straight-answer.

Is the Theory of Intelligent Design I represent a "scientific theory" or not?

I contacted my colleagues at the CDC and the NIH and here are their replies:

Alec Baldwin:  "Don't count on it.  My reply is no."

Steve Baldwin:  "My sources say no.  Outlook not so good.  Very doubtful."

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Date: 2012/12/18 07:11:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 18 2012,01:14)
I write for scientists of all ages with a talent ...

No you dont, you dumb fuck!  You write (badly) on an obscure discussion board in a tiny corner of the Intertube to people who are pasting "Kick Me!" stickers on your back.

Get a clue, dude, or at least a Magic 8 Ball.

Date: 2012/12/19 07:19:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The Baldwin brothers and the Magic 8 Ball bid you good riddance and one final insult.  

Click here for insult.

Date: 2012/12/22 18:58:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hey, GaryBillyBobby, you related to Kruge?

Date: 2012/12/23 18:58:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (fnxtr @ Dec. 23 2012,15:58)
If I write a LOGO program to move a robot turtle, does that prove all turtles are robots?  

If you wrote a LOGO program that controlled a robot turtle that pulled a little wagon containing a real turtle then I think you would have earned Six Globes.

In fact, Six Globes, an Asteroid Belt with a silver fuck cluster and a Captain Universe cape.

(I hear Orion slave girls really go for guys with six globes, just sayin' .)

The only thing GaryBillyBobby has earned is a red tunic.

Date: 2012/12/24 17:58:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Maybe we need a new thread dedicated to GaryBillyBob's leaving.

Date: 2013/01/02 17:35:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 31 2012,18:24)
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 31 2012,17:36)
actual taste/smell sensors, or virtual ones?

I am adding signals which exist (in biological reality) to a circuit to most simply model biological reality.

You need to include this line of code in your model:

canTaste = not (theAnimal == aDog);

Date: 2013/01/11 21:04:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
KF is among the dumbest fucks I've ever seen.  That said, UD has become a distillation of the dumbest fucks on the planet.  All of them.  Sociopaths all.

Date: 2013/01/14 21:51:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
If I squint the turds in my cat's litter box spell out

"moar tuna"

Seriously.  I can post a picture.  And, surprisingly, if I superimpose an image of the Shroud it says "moar tuna" right on Jesus' neck in English.

Must be a sign.

Date: 2013/01/17 15:33:27, Link
Author: Doc Bill

We shall be entertained!

Shades of Kitzmiller, I'll bet the judge simply plagiarized the defense attorney's findings.  I smell conspiracy!

Coming this summer:  Coppedge 2:  Expected Journey

Date: 2013/01/21 08:33:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The AITSE is Crocker's little company pawned off as a "consortium" of - well, whatever.

Dembski and Marks are "members" for what it's worth.

I think Crocker's little company specializes in credential inflation using a frothy mixture of hot air and steaming bullshit.

Date: 2013/01/21 15:30:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I just hit the post key when I thought of "consantorium."

Creationists have a penchant for signing up with these shill do-nothing bullshit entities.  If your resume's as bad as Dembski's anything looks good on it.

Date: 2013/01/21 19:13:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Also, if you look at their, er, her Programs 'n' Projects - there aren't any.

And under Events is Crocker's meager travel schedule through March.  "Events" are just her going places, well, going nowhere but doing it in a different location.

Date: 2013/01/21 20:28:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Freddie @ Oct. 03 2012,10:13)
Journal of Creation Theology and Science

Do we need a new thread for this exciting new YEC publication, courtesy Bryan College and Todd Wood?

For example:

Ancient mtDNA Implies a Nonconstant Molecular Clock in the Human Holobaramin - TC Wood

Too late!

Bryancore ain't no more.

Headline should read "Baraminology Lab Is Last of Its Kind."

Date: 2013/02/08 18:11:59, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Seems that old Dembski has moved to Iowa, at least the house that registered his GoDaddy site is in Pella, Iowa.  Also, he lists his employment as "part-time" with a Bible college in North Carolina that has five resident "faculty."

Quite a fall from his days as a hot shot at the University of Chicago.  He'll be drinking Woolite out of a brown paper bag next.

Date: 2013/02/10 18:16:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I guess we're not at rock bottom!  And here I thought being an adjunct "professor" at a North Carolina correspondence Bible college was rock bottom!

Just think, when collecting unemployment is a step above what you're currently doing is not rock bottom, that's a rocky bottom.

So, Dembski is reduced to charging $5 for a Kindle version of a year-old blog posting freely available, still, on the Internet.  Srsly, Dembski, this is "leading edge" stuff?  And edited by the folks who brought you Of Pandas and People, how nice!

For five bucks, Dembski, you should at least create an ID app.  Call it:

Angry Tards

Date: 2013/02/11 08:32:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, that sounds Dense enough;  highly compacted bullshit.

Besides, the original interview was posted on the blog where Dense hangs out now.

Just imagine a threesome between Dumbski, Dense and Buell.

(I know, Jon or Linda - doesn't matter.)

Date: 2013/02/11 17:37:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I signed into my Amazon account and voted Joe G's comments down, too.

They're disappearing so fast you'd think DaveScot was running Amazon!

Date: 2013/02/11 21:02:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (tsig @ Feb. 11 2013,20:33)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 08 2013,18:11)
Seems that old Dembski has moved to Iowa, at least the house that registered his GoDaddy site is in Pella, Iowa.  Also, he lists his employment as "part-time" with a Bible college in North Carolina that has five resident "faculty."

Quite a fall from his days as a hot shot at the University of Chicago.  He'll be drinking Woolite out of a brown paper bag next.

Surely Dr. Dr counts as two members.

If he has two members there would be one for each hand.

We should all be so lucky!

Date: 2013/02/13 21:33:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Aw, come on!  Give the Missouri legislator (Republican) Brattin a break!

After all, he only has a high school education and a Missouri one at that.

Date: 2013/02/14 11:30:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (blipey @ Feb. 14 2013,01:08)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 13 2013,21:33)
Aw, come on!  Give the Missouri legislator (Republican) Brattin a break!

After all, he only has a high school education and a Missouri one at that.

Hey! I have a Missouri High School education...right, carry on.

Yeah, and so does FtK!


Date: 2013/02/17 15:04:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It struck me during this discussion that none of the Tooters have ever visited their Shrine of the Burgess Shale.  How come Meyer doesn't have his own set of pictures?  Or Luskin? Or any of the Tooters?  How come they yak, yak, yak all about the Burgess Shale but they've never been there?

Granted, it's not a walk in the woods, oh, wait, yes it is.

Treks to the Shale are park-guide hikes only and you may have to book a year in advance to get the day you want.  The maximum crew size is 12.  I lucked out and filled in for a last-minute cancellation and made the hike a few years ago.  Check it out.

Here's why the Tooters will balk at the Shrine:  it's hard work.  Six miles one way with an elevation change of 2400 feet.  The first part of the trip is up the side of a mountain via muddy, root-infested, slippery switchbacks.  Every step is up.  Takes six hours of hiking to get to the quarry with the final 200 yards or so up a steep, treeless scree slope.  You carry your own water, lunch and any other gear.  I carried 2 liters of water and should have carried 3!  I was parched by the time we got back to the parking lot.

You spend about an hour at the quarry until it's time to go home.  Return trip, all downhill, takes about four hours.

Everybody in our crew was an experienced hiker.  Our ranger told us he does 4-5 treks per week and I think he could probably jog the entire distance.  

I remember seeing Emerald Lake from the Shale but didn't get a picture of it.  I was too occupied sweating, willing my legs to move and breathing.  Several years ago, though, we stayed at the Emerald Lake Lodge and had a room that overlooked the Shale.  Right on schedule I observed through binoculars a crew arrive at the Shale for their exploration.  I didn't see Meyer in the crew, but, then again, I wasn't surprised!  He's a lazy bastard in addition to being a lying dog.

Date: 2013/02/17 16:41:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 17 2013,15:56)
Hey Doc, did you find any rabbit fossils when you were there?  ;)

OMG, the Tooters have scooped me with a

video of Meyer at the Shale!

Who knew?!?!?!?

Date: 2013/02/17 20:05:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Corny is one of the few creationists I think is mentally ill.  Some are just obnoxious, like FL, and some are so very strange that they may have severe mental problems.  Corny falls into that category.  It's a religious delusion that's beyond banter.

Date: 2013/02/19 08:23:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yeah, the articles don't mention Copernicus, either and it's his birthday!

How sad.

Date: 2013/02/19 20:55:45, Link
Author: Doc Bill
When it comes to biology Dr. Tour is a real dumbfuck.  Instead of reading his Bible every morning he should be reading Wikipedia articles on biology.  Then he could possibly just maybe become less of a dumbfuck about biology.

I'm a chemist, too, Dr. Tour, and to you I say Fuck You, you Dumb Shit!  Man to man, that is.  Respectfully.

Tour is known at Rice for his Bible thumping and has had some problems with graduate students who are not the thumping kind, but managed to avoid administrative entanglements.  

Tour's exposition on "microevolution" and "macroevolution" is especially childish and uninformed and, of course, wrong.  That's what gripes me the most.  Tours is a lazy bastard who hasn't taken the time to learn about the subject he talks about.  Fucking waste of breath, Tours is.  And a liar.  That's the worst part.  Delusional liar for Jesus.  On a crutch.

Date: 2013/02/20 16:09:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 20 2013,11:03)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 19 2013,20:55)
When it comes to biology Dr. Tour is a real dumbfuck.  Instead of reading his Bible every morning he should be reading Wikipedia articles on biology.  Then he could possibly just maybe become less of a dumbfuck about biology.

I'm a chemist, too, Dr. Tour, and to you I say Fuck You, you Dumb Shit!  Man to man, that is.  Respectfully.

Tour is known at Rice for his Bible thumping and has had some problems with graduate students who are not the thumping kind, but managed to avoid administrative entanglements.  

Tour's exposition on "microevolution" and "macroevolution" is especially childish and uninformed and, of course, wrong.  That's what gripes me the most.  Tours is a lazy bastard who hasn't taken the time to learn about the subject he talks about.  Fucking waste of breath, Tours is.  And a liar.  That's the worst part.  Delusional liar for Jesus.  On a crutch.

I am willing to cut Tour a little slack, since Tour realizes he is not an expert.  Right at the top of his essay he says

Assuming that I have something significant to contribute to the evolution vs. creation debate, many ask me to speak and write concerning my thoughts on the topic. However, I do not have anything substantive to say about it. I am a layman on the subject. Although I have read about a half dozen books on the debate, maybe a dozen, and though I can speak authoritatively on complex chemical synthesis, I am not qualified to enter the public discussion on evolution vs. creation. So please don’t ask me to be the speaker or debater at your event, and think carefully about asking me for an interview because I will probably not give you the profound quotations that you seek. You are of course free to quote me from what is written here, but do me the kindness of placing my statements in a fair context.

However, Torley wants to take Tour's opinions as informed (argument by authority) since Tour is a highly published chemist, when Tour himself will not.  I guess Torley knows better than Tour.  LOL.

Since last Lent, I have gone to UD only four times.  I am doing pretty good, and this was worth falling off the wagon for.

No, I'm not cutting Tour any slack.  He's going to "pull a Behe" on Matzke by demanding to see every chemical change, and the conditions and etc infinitum.

Tour is a smart guy but he's a lying creationist like all creationists.  He sounds like FL:  show me the steps of whale evolution.  Every creationist pulls the same dishonest stunt:  show me the proof of evolution.

Tell you what, Tour, why don't you get off your lazy ass and read up on the subject.  Hell, I've got a copy of Coyne and Orr's book on Speciation.  I'll drive it to your house.

Yes, I read Tour's pathetic disclaimer that he doesn't know much about the subject and then waded through his childish pout that nobody ever sat down with him over lunch to explain the chemistry of evolution.  So, let's see, Tour thinks this could be done in 90 minutes - including some insightful interruptions - and yet he's spent years, decades doing NOTHING until this miraculous event occurs.

Can't wait for Nick's report!  I'll even provide the Subject title:  Tour Pulls a Behe!

(and that's how I really feel!)

Date: 2013/02/20 16:12:36, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Oh, if you haven't read, Nick's coming to Houston to have lunch with Tour, change his diaper or whatever.  Should be entertaining.

BTW, I've eaten at the Rice faculty dining room and it is quite excellent.

Date: 2013/02/20 21:30:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The bottom line is that Tour is full of shit and needs to be called out on it.  He's lazy for not doing the basic literature research he'd demand of his graduate students, probably because he's religiously delusional.

No respect for his "opinions" on biological evolution because he's a liar with his own agenda.  

At least Nick will have a good meal!

Date: 2013/02/24 17:41:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Well, if I'm wrong I apologize.

Those are words you'll never see written on a creationist website.

Never ever.

Date: 2013/03/11 19:08:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (khan @ Mar. 11 2013,17:56)
Quote (stevestory @ Mar. 11 2013,15:07)
Quote (REC @ Mar. 11 2013,13:59)
Bill-collecter Barry's knowledge of engineering history is as bad as his understanding of evolution:

For example, the bolt holding the battery in place is NOT part of the core.  We can remove that bolt, and the battery will flop around, but the car will still run. The battery itself, on the other hand, is part of the irreducibly complex core.  Anyone who has ever turned the key on a car with a dead battery knows, no battery equals zero function.

Barry provides a better example than I've previously heard of why defining irreducibly complex as "remove a part and it breaks" is really stupid. You can remove a battery from a modern car, and the car doesn't work. But this does not address that in the 'evolutionary' history of the car, the battery was NOT an essential component of the 'ancestral' engine. It is an additional feature of a machine that got more complex over time.

Or if the car is a standard and you always park on a hill..

(speaking from personal experience as a former broke undergrad who had a $1000 240sx)

Having owned a '68 VW Bug and a '73 MG Midget, I always parked on a hill.

When Barry was young he parked his car on Mt. Improbable.

Then forgot where he parked it.

Date: 2013/03/12 20:56:13, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 12 2013,15:31)
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Mar. 12 2013,13:06)
Apparently, if it's over-the-top ravingly stupid bullshit that Barry's spouting, it's just plain silly to point out that it's absurd BS:


Yes, LarTanner, being dissed on Twitter is not as physically calamitous to the victim as being subjected to a medieval auto-da-fé. If you have any more stunning nuggets of scintillating perspicuity, by all means drop them on us. I know I’m breathless with anticipation.

BTW, you and KN were conspicuous in your absence from the combox attached to my last post.

Of course, in a way he's right, it's such a pack of rank lies that it shouldn't need any sort of comment.  However, lies that divorced from reality are all that ID ever has, and, strange as it seems, it appeals to rather too many ignorant saps.

Glen Davidson

PS,  Oh yeah, the bully has to hate on the victims for not showing up for censorship, hate, and lies on his vicious little thread.

Same thread, different tard:
24 Upright BiPed March 12, 2013 at 2:11 pm


You ran the mouthpiece for an organization that deliberately sought to ruin the careers and livelihoods of qualified scientists. This was done without even a second thought about driving someone out of a field that they had dedicated their lives to, and it was done on the flimsiest of reasoning, without any scientific confirmation whatsoever. Michael Behe comes to mind. He proposed a concept of irreducible complexity. In response, your side produced a tie clip and years upon years of sneering remarks. Yet the concept of irreducible complexity can be demonstrated in biology in a way that you cannot refute in any way whatsoever. So instead of feigned outrage over Barry’s article, why don’t you man-up and give Behe a call. Apologize for umpteen years of grief your side has targeted at the man who was correct all along.

The horror!  The horror!  They produced a tie clip!  That's just like the Inquisition!

It'll be the soft cushion next...

And how many careers were ruined?

Behe still working.

So, who's career was ruined?

Date: 2013/03/14 13:16:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Date: 2013/03/16 20:45:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The psychology of the Udders is shockingly simple.  BatShit 77 and the others have to be right all the time.  And they have to be seen to be right all the time.  And everybody has to praise them, with a purple participation ribbon, for their obvious brilliance and by being right all the time.

In years of watching these fuckers I've never seen an instance of any of them correcting something totally stupid and wrong they've said.

The planet of Pompous Ass doesn't begin to describe the delusional world they live in.

Ironically, in the little bubble they live in all they hear is noise from the outside not realizing it's laughter.

Yes, BatShit, we're laughing AT you!

Date: 2013/03/21 08:14:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Appears that Manjack is off.

Date: 2013/03/22 20:56:53, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Ptaylor @ Mar. 22 2013,20:15)
I noticed this in one of KF's comments:
Had you said, that the set-up of the cosmos that programs quarks, gluons etc to make a cosmos in which for instance per fine tuning the first four elements are H, He, O, C — just what we need to base life on, with N as a couple more elements down the list, making proteins, you might have had a point.
UD link, my emphasis. I've seen him mention this before.

My chemistry education didn't go past secondary school, so maybe I am missing something, but in what sense are these the first four elements? Certainly not as presented on the periodic table, nor as initially created (heh) by Big Bang nucleosynthesis. If based on what is necessary for life why would helium be in the 'first four'?
Does anyone here know what he is on about?

For $500, Alex, KF is a dumb fuck?

Date: 2013/04/27 15:29:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
hearing the lamentations of their women.

Those were the days!

Date: 2013/04/29 17:02:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The World Tomorrow on AM radio, hosted by Herbert Armstrong!  Pure comedy gold back in the early 70's.

On the origin of feathers:  dinosaurs throwing themselves against rocks to fray their scales.

Yep, he said that.  I miss the good old days, simple times.

Date: 2013/04/30 16:32:14, Link
Author: Doc Bill
You know, it might have been Garner Ted Armstrong on the radio, not Pappy.

Did I say I had a radio?  Nah, couldn't afford such a fancy thing.  I had corroded bed springs and could pick up KOMA through the mattress if the Ionosphere was just right.

(Not so much a "mattress" as an old potato sack filled with straw.)

Date: 2013/04/30 18:55:43, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (CeilingCat @ April 30 2013,16:52)
Quote (Doc Bill @ April 30 2013,16:32)
You know, it might have been Garner Ted Armstrong on the radio, not Pappy.

Did I say I had a radio?  Nah, couldn't afford such a fancy thing.  I had corroded bed springs and could pick up KOMA through the mattress if the Ionosphere was just right.

(Not so much a "mattress" as an old potato sack filled with straw.)

Well, not so much a potato sack filled with straw.  More of a pile of rusty needles and razor blades with Herbert W. Armstrong banging his thirteen year old daughter in the middle of it, but it were bed to us!

Ah, the memories!

Wednesday was Horsey Night as I recall.

Date: 2013/05/06 00:10:01, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Drunk posting and ignoring spellcheck.

Well, assuming the moron has spellcheck and isn't running DOS.

Thread closed after 4 postings and none by the Guest of Honor.  Must be a record.

Date: 2013/05/15 23:53:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Garden variety assholes.

Burpee could market them as self-fertilizing.

Date: 2013/05/17 21:33:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (k.e.. @ May 17 2013,21:00)
Quote (Driver @ May 18 2013,03:59)
Quote (Patrick @ May 18 2013,00:42)
Quote (Febble @ May 17 2013,18:06)
I've also seen some really good science from people who were mentally ill.

In fact I'm not sure I've met a scientist who was entirely sane.  
And as for mathematicians...

Mathematicians and chemists.  At least the chemists have the excuse of breathing noxious fumes on a regular basis.

Davy once suggested Faraday try a chemical combination that, when he tried it, shattered the test tube and almost blinded him. It is recounted that Davy almost certainly knew this would happen. I suppose similar things have been done by other top dogs in fear of the upstart, but it's still rather crazy, disproportionate behaviour.

Yeah I've always found Chemists have a better sense of humor than Mathematicians except for Louis....

Unless you've had a pint or three and a few bottles of saki with Louis as have I, you have no standing.

And I mean that in the most HOMO PHIL-LICK way.

Not to drop names, apologies to Phil.

Date: 2013/05/18 14:03:35, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (k.e.. @ May 17 2013,21:41)
Quote (Doc Bill @ May 18 2013,05:33)
Quote (k.e.. @ May 17 2013,21:00)
Quote (Driver @ May 18 2013,03:59)
Quote (Patrick @ May 18 2013,00:42)
Quote (Febble @ May 17 2013,18:06)
I've also seen some really good science from people who were mentally ill.

In fact I'm not sure I've met a scientist who was entirely sane.  
And as for mathematicians...

Mathematicians and chemists.  At least the chemists have the excuse of breathing noxious fumes on a regular basis.

Davy once suggested Faraday try a chemical combination that, when he tried it, shattered the test tube and almost blinded him. It is recounted that Davy almost certainly knew this would happen. I suppose similar things have been done by other top dogs in fear of the upstart, but it's still rather crazy, disproportionate behaviour.

Yeah I've always found Chemists have a better sense of humor than Mathematicians except for Louis....

Unless you've had a pint or three and a few bottles of saki with Louis as have I, you have no standing.

And I mean that in the most HOMO PHIL-LICK way.

Not to drop names, apologies to Phil.

Phhhht second hand rumors! :)

Comments like that used to bring out the great man hisself!

ETA: moar hissiness

Alas, true.

The great man hisself lounges on piles of data in his laboratory like Smaug on his heap of treasure in his mountain.

Occasionally through the gloom one might detect the glow of a red, bloodshot eye but it is fleeting at best.

It is said his breath can fell a man at 100 yards and I can attest to that having survived such a blast in a confined area, and we all know what dragons can do so I won't elaborate.

Date: 2013/05/19 13:45:56, Link
Author: Doc Bill
batshit wimpers that Slimy "cottage cheese-dripping pussy" Sal isn't reading his postings  (who does?)  and Old Slimy replies:

That would be farily accurate because they are tiresome, rambling, and show you have far less understanding of physics that you credit yourself with.

And this:

By the way, it is extremely uncivil in disucussion to accuse someone of stating facts or offering reasoned criticisms because he is somehow deluded by theology.

Holy Guano, batshit-for-brains 77, you gonna let that little fucker talk yo you like that????  HERE COME DA BANHAMMER!!!!!!!

Wait, what?  No?  What universe is this?

But, here come the fireworks!

Well Sal, it is clear you are ignorant and have no clue what you are talking about. See two can play that game!  One reason, among many, why I question your intellectual integrity, besides the heavily accented YEC view you are presenting, is because of your personal attack against Dr. Sewell on these pages with a very distorted view of the second law. You lost all my respect on that score.

But, wait, what's happening? No Banhammer?  Come on, now, I got Banhammered just for asking a question!  Sally just called Batty a big tub o' lard!

Batty replies:

Sal, again I’m sorry if I wrote anything to hurt you personally.,,,

WHAT.  THE.  FUCK?????

Ewwwwwwwww, make-up sex on Aisle 5!  Get a mop!

Date: 2013/05/21 21:36:08, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Not one to shy away from being a fucking bitch, I went after the Kemper's, the authors of this stinking piece of shit.

No credentials, of course.  No indication that the Kemper's even finished college.  Mr. Kemper did a stint as some kind of engineer, possibly an intern, but failed at that and became a "writer."  And frau Kemper, stay-at-home-mom dedicated her time to homeschooling.  Again, no credentials and certainly no science.

So, the question is this.  How desperate is the Toot that they partner up with these undereducated, uncredentialed non-scientists, non-educators, know nothing boobs to roll out their "Educational Package?"

Behe too busy?  Meyer mired in tar?  Wells unwilling?  Dr. Dr. out of the office?  Berlinski, well, jacking off as usual?

The DI is rolling out this "supplemental" material written by a couple of fucking undereducated, religious nut nobodies.

Srsly, have they sunk that low?

Date: 2013/05/21 22:26:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It could be that the Toot is so desperate that they are using Hallie's feeble connections within the homeschooling community.

Failing with mainstream education perhaps the Toot is targeting homeschoolers who have no regulation and can teach any old shit, and do.

Date: 2013/05/23 13:43:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Cubist @ May 21 2013,21:49)
Quote (Doc Bill @ May 21 2013,21:36)
The DI is rolling out this "supplemental" material written by a couple of fucking undereducated, religious nut nobodies.

Srsly, have they sunk that low?

Your question strongly implies that the DiscoTute was ever, at any time in the past, higher than it is now…

That's a good point.  I reflected, under the alcofluence of incohol, on the Tute over the years and you're right.

The Wedge Document was actually the High Point because at least it was a plan, it had goals, milestones and all that jazz.

But, what they've actually accomplished is absolutely nothing.  Just a lot of smoke and stink.

Dembski got fired, multiple times and is now even less of a nobody.  Behe is probably smelling retirement, or should be, having become totally irrelevant.  Wells just gets fatter and more disgusting.  Poor Stevie Meyer gets no respect, no traction and, outside of the group of lunatics who follow creationism for a hobby, is totally unknown.  Does Sternberg still have a job?  Who would know?

Books?  Failures.
DVD's?  Failures.
Academic Freedom Bills?  Failures, but one.
ID journals?  Failures.
ID research?  Failure.
IDEA clubs?  Failure.
Sucking donations from people with more money than brains?  Success!

I guess it's not all bad.

Date: 2013/05/24 14:32:00, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Although she had to announce herself (not really Ms Obvious)

I (news writer Denyse O’Leary)

since Dense's return there has been a sharp up-tic and, thank god, not a sharp up-skirt, of bizarre postings.

They should really rename the site

The Daily Incoherence

Date: 2013/05/24 21:05:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Poor Attack Gerbil Luskin whines on Evo Snooze that he's being beat up for being dishonest in his recent publication, "Discover Intentional Dishonesty."

"It's really, really, weally, hard to write for dumb people," Luskin lamented, "so, naturally I had to sacrifice stuff like facts and honesty.  Something had to give so I went for dumb."

Awwwww, poor widdle Casey, having to sacrifice scientific knowledge for creationist bilge.  Don't worry, Gerb, the homeschool market won't care one whit.  And "one whit" is about the profit you're going to see from this debacle.

Oh, dear me, debacle is such a big word, let me dumb it down for you:  fuck up.

All better?

Date: 2013/06/01 12:46:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Who did the Behe in a Bikini picture?

That's my favorite of all time!

Date: 2013/06/01 17:48:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My Photoshop skills are so bad I'm hopeless at using Autocorrect, but I could turn Dense into Gollum.  That just requires a caption.

edit:  Apologies to Gollum.

Date: 2013/06/01 23:20:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (J-Dog @ June 01 2013,19:32)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 01 2013,17:48)
My Photoshop skills are so bad I'm hopeless at using Autocorrect, but I could turn Dense into Gollum.  That just requires a caption.

edit:  Apologies to Gollum.

I had no idea that Gollum was such a bad writer...

Or so prolific!

Since Dense returned there have been 4-5 postings each day.  It's like a diarrhea of tard.  It all runs together like one humongous shit storm of stupid.

Date: 2013/06/06 10:33:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't often go to UD, but when I do I need to drink a lot of Dos Equis.  A lot of Dos Equis.

I started to read the Cordova "platonic forms" thread thinking he was just jacking around, then it became clear he was jacking off.  (It was so pornographic I had to whip myself as punishment while looking at a photo of Louis in a leopard-print mankini.)

Then the comments started flowing and it was Pure 100% Grade A TARD!  Tardles all the way down.

Good old WD400 had the temerity to bring up Tiktaalik as an example of a fish-o-pod and was promptly smacked down by unclassified footprints, totally missing the point, of course.

Then Joe showed up, ya see, and that thread is so blindingly stupid that even a professional snarkmeister like myself would have a daunting task writing such a thing as a Poe!

But this is the state of ID in 2013.  Mental patients, a bunch of old, has beens and a gerbil.  (Note to self:  movie plot - old guys take road trip with hamster.  hi-larry-ity ensues.)

Date: 2013/06/06 18:16:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Patrick @ June 06 2013,17:43)
Quote (Woodbine @ June 06 2013,17:04)
Volcano's probably rumbling and he's busy flagellating himself in an attempt to appease the sulphurous beast.

Or looking for a virgin to toss in.

Somebody has to say it.

We all know who the 63-year old virgin is, don't we?

Any takers?  Louis?

Date: 2013/06/07 13:05:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Nice summary here of

what the Disco Tute really does.

Basically, over 90% of the money the rake in goes into their own pockets.  It's a gravy train they have a vested interest in keeping on the tracks.  They get paid a very nice salary for doing nothing with no responsibility, no product, no accountability and their only risk is not bringing in donations.

I suspect that their DVD and book sales provide negligible income.  Yeah, we all knew this was the case but it's nice to see it written out.

Date: 2013/06/20 14:13:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
At Barnes & Noble, von Meyer sat at #1 on the eve of release, dropped to 29 in a few hours, plummeted to 111 by this morning and is now sinking below 200.

On the review and comment threads at Amazon, not surprisingly, the Evilutionists are actually discussing points directly from von Meyer's book, while the creationists are flinging poo, shouting "atheist" and all the usual stuff.

JoeG showed up being JoeG!  That's pretty much the level of von Meyer's support.

I managed to get on-line access to the first three chapters and I must say I was very surprised, nay, astounded to read von Meyer articulating Creationism 101.  Not even sneaky.  Absolute Pandas&People full-on 100 percent Grade A creationism:  animals poofed into existence fully formed, no transitional fossils, Darwin was RONG and on and on.  Quite bold.  I thought he was going to be sneaky but it's obvious he's trying to reach a wider creationist audience than with Ciggie in the Cell.

Date: 2013/06/26 22:06:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Several of the ID brethren have pointed out on the Amazon review thread that it would be impossible for Matzke to produce a 9400 word review in such a short time because the probability of producing two simultaneous critiques is or less than ten to the minus 40th.

Therefore, I guess they're saying that Matzke's review was intelligently designed.  It's the only answer.

Date: 2013/06/27 19:15:06, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'd make a suitably inappropriate comment on their Facebook site but, of course, I'm blocked.

Yes, Gauger's silver banhammer came down on my head.

Date: 2013/06/28 09:03:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
How could it be a new function if they didn't grow wings and they're still monkeys?


They're still fecking monkeys!

Date: 2013/06/28 22:09:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Remember when Bio-Logic set all these Facebook rules?

No postings more than 100 words and no off-topic or uncivil or postings that contained letters between a-z.

I didn't say that Gauger "was" related to the troll king in the Hobbit, I said she "might have been."  Sheesh, picky picky!

Date: 2013/07/01 15:14:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 01 2013,03:18)
I didn't say that Gauger "was" related to the troll king in the Hobbit, I said she "might have been."  Sheesh, picky picky!

Hey, I liked the troll king.

Rumor has it his daughter is available and sleepless in Seattle.

Date: 2013/07/05 11:15:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (DiEb @ July 05 2013,05:04)
Casey Luskin is deeply disappointed: What Science Education "Journalism" Looks Like at Nature

He was interviewed by the "highly respected" journal Nature, but the journalist Laureen Morello saw through his talking points and safely ignored all of them in her article "Evolution makes the grade". It's not fair!

Shame on you Lauren Morello!

You made Baby Gerbil cry!

(You have to wonder why Gerb brought this up in the first place.  Nobody would have known otherwise.  Oh, yeah, persecution complex.  I forgotted 'bouts that.)

Date: 2013/07/22 21:00:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That's Rex "My Dick I Will" Tugwell.

(low hanging fruit)

Date: 2013/07/24 17:13:21, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I'm with Akbar.

(Hey, I should make that into a t-shirt!)

Who's going to lower the boom?  Not Meyer, he knows the least about what he writes.  Axe and Gauger?  Not Gauger, she's too busy doing green screen photo shoots.  Possibly Axe who is both deluded and vindictive.

However, my "ax" of choice is Luskin!  Yea, Attack Gerbil.  Sic, 'em, Gerb!

Heads up for a citation avalanche.

Date: 2013/08/08 22:15:44, Link
Author: Doc Bill

Date: 2013/08/12 20:37:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Logos Research Associates is the fruitcake of creationism!  Chock full of crackpots and nuts.

Our pal Coppedge is a member, as is Steve Austin and others.  A Who's Who of Loons.

Brilliant idea.

Date: 2013/08/15 23:13:22, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I agree, RDK.

I hardly go over to Pharyngula these days.  PZ seems more interested in being the Big Bad Alpha Atheist rather than a scientist and it's all an ego trip for him.

Every time I hear him speak I cringe at his inability to present a coherent idea.  Compare the brilliant clarity of Hitchens to the fumbling oatmeal mush of PZ.  

I think PZ peaked about 10 years ago and is in a slow decline to irrelevance.  Too bad, really.  There was a time he could spark a discussion, but not any more.

Date: 2013/08/19 14:18:02, Link
Author: Doc Bill
The DI History Revision department is in full swing.

In an article about the good old centriole they note
Discovery Institute's Dr. Jonathan Wells hypothesized years ago that centrioles operate like winches, pulling the chromosomes apart with force (here and here)

Where "here and here" is neither here nor there.  What Jon-Boy actually pooted was that the centrioles looked like little turbines and, by hecky, they were little turbines and that Someday it would be discovered (but not by Jon-Boy) that they motorboated stuff in the cell around.

It was turbines using polar force or some such nonsense, not winches.  But I can't fault the Disco Tute too much.  After all it's much easier to make predictions after the fact.  They're just being efficient!

Date: 2013/08/20 19:03:37, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Texas Teach @ Aug. 19 2013,16:36)
Quote (olegt @ Aug. 19 2013,14:39)
Quote (sparc @ Aug. 19 2013,14:27)
Strangely enough, as of today Dembski still list Sringer in his CV at    

in preparation
• Biological Information: New Perspectives (co-edited with Robert J. Marks II, John Sanford, Michael Behe, and Bruce Gordon). Under contract with Springer Verlag

He is highly trained in denying realities, though.

From Bill's CV:
Current Employment
• Senior Fellow, Discovery Institute’s Center for Science and Culture (, 1996 to present, full-time since summer 2012
• Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor in Culture and Science, Southern Evangelical Seminary (, part-time since fall 2012

One can't help wondering what it means to be a part-time Senior Fellow at Discovery.

Limited cafeteria privileges?

The "ses" is a double-wide trailer diploma mill in bumfuck, NC.

"Unemployed" would be a step up from this place for Dembski.  Part-time at a diploma mill?  

How the mighty Dembski has fallen and one wonders what drives his self-destructive behavior.  Perhaps he's just a consummate asshole and can't get along with anybody.  University of Chicago to Baylor to nothing to two Baptist seminaries to this.

Considering Dembski is the "leading ID theorist" he's certainly on the skids.

Date: 2013/09/08 21:56:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Doc Bill and Kink the Cat approve this message.

Your open invitation to Houston is still open.

Date: 2013/11/05 17:37:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 27 2006,08:19)
Wow, I've read a little on this at a couple of sites.  This is the kind of stuff that really gets my interest and attention.  Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about the shuttle, the moon, mars, or our cute yellow star for any other reason than getting to these places is the first step in getting someplace interesting.  I'm waiting for the day I (more likely my grand or great grand children) can get on a star ship and GO to some other rocky planet and talk to the locals.  (My first question would be "excuse me, are you the intelligent designer?") Of course, they'll all speak English.
Seriously, before I die, I just want to go to one place where life has evolved other than Earth, just to see what it looks like.  Every discovery like this brings us one step closer to doing just that.

This just in, Lou.

"Scientist able to quantum transport up to 300 grams of matter 1.6 billion miles."

So, it appears you'd be able to send your index finger on a trip to Uranus.

Send postcard, plz!

Date: 2013/11/11 15:14:52, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What happened to Dembski's stint in North Carolina at that Bible diploma mill?  I thought he was moving out there.

Date: 2013/11/11 15:17:39, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What's up with Dense O'Leary posting a byline at the Tute?

I thought even the Tute had standards, but turning Dense loose?

Date: 2013/12/31 21:33:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There is no theory of ID, Gary, you are an idiot.

You prove that over and over and over.

You could form a company and sell idiocy, you seem to have a surplus.

Seriously, if we are the only friends you have, you need to meet Jack Daniels and Johnny Walker.  They're much more sympathetic.

You, you're just pathetic.

I hope you had a miserable 2013 and that 2014 is even worse.

Date: 2014/03/07 10:26:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Is it just me or has the Tute gone over the edge recently?  Jumping sharks as a business plan, perhaps.

I don't propose anybody does a study (it might result in permanent brain damage) but it seems that more and more articles are along the lines of "looks designed, therefore designed."

The most recent is on horse gaits;  smooth rides, therefore design.

They aren't even trying, anymore.  If you could graph "number of really stupid articles" versus "time" you might get a knee in the curve about the time Dense joined the Tute as editor.

Just saying.

Date: 2014/06/03 13:28:07, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Did you see the latest?

"Darwin Scholars" an affordable on-line course offered by none other than Corny his own self.

$1600 for the full set!

Holy Shamoly, he's become a televangelist!

Date: 2014/06/03 15:10:57, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (midwifetoad @ June 03 2014,13:41)
Corny stoll his webpage images from somewhere:

And does Ken ham show up in one of the slides?

Ken Ham!  What the hell?

Sure, it's the Ham on Nye debate, but still.  Corny's not even trying.

Date: 2014/06/16 08:08:58, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Woodbine @ June 16 2014,06:25)
Quote (timothya @ June 16 2014,09:01)
KF enlarges on his particular form of dualism:
PS: For those pondering the malevolent supernatural, all I will say is that I have personally and in company of dozens, seen that in action in violation of known physics; and I mean basic reliable laws. Things I used to laugh at when as a kid I saw on cartoon Saturdays, I no longer find so funny . . . I begin to wonder about just what lies behind some of those cartoons. I cannot deny what I have indisputably seen under circumstances that make convergent mass hallucination from multiple perspectives by people of diverse backgrounds etc essentially a non-starter, and have had to deal with and process those facts. I think we had better begin to think about a world of oracles that can interface with MIMO cybernetic entities, sometimes in very strange ways. Whether or no this sits comfortably with a nice mid-C20 smugly “scientific” mindset.

I wonder what it could have been?

A transvestite.

Perhaps it was Roy:

"I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe... [contemptuous laugh] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like [small cough] tears... in... rain. Time... to die..."

Date: 2014/06/27 21:00:55, Link
Author: Doc Bill
There's probably a Dembski thread somewhere but I was too lazy to find it.

Big news!  Dr. Dr.'s long-coming book, "Being as Communion" is being published in August.

$140 hardback
$31 paperback

I guess this is his Templeton book that's been in the works forever.

The write-up on Amazon tells us that it will be another piece of shit from Dembski - a non-technical treatment of yadda.

Yeah, of course it's non-technical.  It's 200 pages of bafflegab.

Rocks are information and clams gots legs and cats still can haz no cheeseburgers.

Date: 2014/06/28 10:57:05, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Fools!  You are all fools!  Why do I waste my time with this narrow-minded foolish lot?

Louis, oh, Louis, why have you forsaken us?

Don't y'all get it?  Dembski's book changes Everything.  He's found a way to unite bafflegab with flapdoodle.  The paradigm shift will change the zeitgeist as we know it!  Deepak will lie down with Oz and the Hambo will reign over the next two thousand years!

Hey, I'm getting ready.  I'm taking my clothes off right now!  Take me, Dr. Dr., take !

Date: 2014/07/31 18:54:09, Link
Author: Doc Bill
What professor?

Armitage is a techician.

His degree is from the ICR!

I say coppedge the bugger!

Date: 2014/08/03 21:42:19, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (REC @ Aug. 01 2014,11:48)
"Professor" is kinda grandiose for a part-time tech.

So, who funded this research? Him?

I looked at the methods in the paper. Platinum/Gold targets and the solutions you need for SEM work are not cheap. (not to mention the electric bill, equipment wear and tear, etc....microscopy cores charge often charge $100/hr after reagents to offset these costs). And if he re-purposed reagents bought with grant money for his own side project, that is quite serious.

Do any of you work for employers that would tolerate a technician diverting time and resources into a pet project?

Pretty much him.

I found a story on a creationist site that said Armitage and his creationist buddy Kevin Anderson took a "three hour tour" at a private creationist dino dig site in Montana that charges $100 a day to dig in a bone bed.  There they, apparently, dug up a triceratops horn which they bought from the dig operator for $3000.

Then it was Keystone Cops science, dunking the thing in acid and probably chanting "Ooook!  Oooook!"  Who knows?

The entire episode should be embarrassing for CSUN.

Date: 2014/08/04 14:31:46, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (REC @ Aug. 04 2014,12:36)
The paper is up on researchgate:

No acknowledgements.

The paper is just as bad as I imagined.  What a bunch of idiots.

Date: 2014/08/06 12:18:11, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Shhhhhhhh, George is invisible.

Date: 2014/08/19 11:19:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

It's a creationist coprolite.

The author, Alvin Barry, according to the InterWebs died in 2001.  Unfortunately, not taking his ideas with him!

Date: 2014/10/22 18:18:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 22 2014,12:46)
Entropy - not just a good idea, it's the law!

I've got that t-shirt from the 80's.

Einstein dressed as a cop.  "The speed of light.  Not just a good idea.  It's the law."

Date: 2015/01/16 10:45:12, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I joined the project several years ago.

Me Cro-Mignon, the tender meat eaters.

I still get emails announcing "matches" to whatever markers they identified, but I haven't paid much attention to it in recent years.

Date: 2015/01/16 10:55:16, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Greetings, NotGuru, we meet again!

Perhaps a full disclosure of your real purpose is in order.  I present to you NotGuru's Agenda:

I paint evolution (non-science) as faith ... because it is.
It's an absurd unsupported set of stories, based on the premise that there is no possibility of non-material causation. It satisfies a huge amount of self-centred god-haters, who've wanted nothing more than a decent excuse to pretend that there are no eternal consequences for their actions.

You still don't address any of the gaping black holes that I've pointed out.

I'm thinking this one is a Gary Gaulin clone, but super tard charged.  If you don't mind I'll duck out and get some popcorn.

Date: 2015/01/16 19:19:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Cubist @ Jan. 16 2015,18:57)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 16 2015,10:55)
Greetings, NotGuru, we meet again!

Perhaps a full disclosure of your real purpose is in order.  I present to you NotGuru's Agenda:

I paint evolution (non-science) as faith ... because it is.
It's an absurd unsupported set of stories, based on the premise that there is no possibility of non-material causation. It satisfies a huge amount of self-centred god-haters, who've wanted nothing more than a decent excuse to pretend that there are no eternal consequences for their actions.

You still don't address any of the gaping black holes that I've pointed out.

I'm thinking this one is a Gary Gaulin clone, but super tard charged.  If you don't mind I'll duck out and get some popcorn.

Is that text an actual quote from cryptoguru, or is it a concise summary of cryptoguru's ideas which doesn't actually use their specific phrasing? I ask because I tried googling that quote, and I couldn't find a source.

It's over at Smilodon's Retreat under the "DNA is not like a computer" thread.  Near the bottom of about 4 pages of comments.

Yeah, it's a direct quote.  Think Quest/FL/JoeG/a mule/two thick planks/bag of doorknobs - and you'll get the general sense of this guy.

Back to my popcorn!

Date: 2015/01/18 16:49:47, Link
Author: Doc Bill
That was quick!  I don't think I've ever seen someone go through the Stages of a Creationist as quickly as CreeptoGuru.

1.  Disingenuous Introduction (Hi, everybody!  I've got some questions.  Hope you can help.  Feel free to correct any misconceptions I have!)

2.  Creationist boilerplate.

3.  Patient explanations by Saint Wes and others.  (Doc Bill heavily sedated with DramaTARD to prevent chronic mockery.)

4.  There is no evilution!  Lenski benski!  Whaaaaaa, you're mean to me!  Jesus!

5.  Flounce.

Thank you, Creepto, for providing us with this hilarious brick of TARD, although it probably won't make it into the Hall of Flame:

Also the minion-like responses I've had concerning Lenski's experiment on here are equally hilarious. Trying to deny that after he's performed 60,000 generational steps seeing a small metabolic change is not something to get excited about is utterly self-deceptive.

This is a dying theory indeed when models can't model it ... and experiments don't demonstrate it.
The power behind this theory is you guys ... your zeal at flocking around any assailant and trying to neutralise any attacks on the precious, by employing as much ridicule, incredulity, slander and mock as you can muster whilst still attempting to sound scientific.

In the future, Creepto, try to work in some flourish like "altar of Darwin" or "high priests of science."  That's a crowd pleaser!

Date: 2015/01/18 18:29:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 18 2015,18:06)


The power behind this theory is you guys ... your zeal at flocking around any assailant and trying to neutralise any attacks on the precious, by employing as much ridicule, incredulity, slander and mock as you can muster whilst still attempting to sound scientific.

Anyone whose analogies require living organisms to create new chemical elements is eminently mockable on their own demerits.

And, by the way, what I engaged in was disagreeing with Cryptoguru, not "missing the point". Given the many exceedingly basic errors I pointed out in his commentary, one would think he'd be a bit less full of himself. Anybody reviewing the thread is likely to see what I see, that Cryptoguru made a bunch of erroneous claims, got told they were erroneous and why they were erroneous, and made his exit with exceedingly bad grace.

Unless, of course, he's one of those people who makes endless farewell tours, and he's just given his first farewell concert.

Saint Wes, an eternal fan of the Ungrateful Dead.

Date: 2015/01/18 19:34:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Woodbine @ Jan. 18 2015,19:07)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 19 2015,00:22)
He does write better than GG.

The fish drowning in Lenski's e-coli writes better than Gary.

Well, this is the typical creationist's view of evolution, isn't it?

CreeptoGuru demanded "new" and "novel" thingies and what he was demanding was a New Ford Chromosome 2015 with triple exhausts and a 13 cylinder engine, or some such.

Going back to Pandas, the hedge was "fish with fins and birds with feathers" with no ancestors.

That's what CreeptoGuru is demanding.  Ironically, that's the definition of creationism.  The fact that CreeptoGuru claims it's never been observed means that creationism has never been observed and that is totally correct.  It hasn't!

Well done, CreeptoGuru, you just disproved creationism!  Drinks on me.

Date: 2015/01/19 12:01:48, Link
Author: Doc Bill
It appears that CreeptoGuru suffered a concussion to have written this creationist boilerplate tripe:

You misunderstood what I said there. I said "point mutation" singular ... not sequence of point mutations.



The U has been point-mutated to a T ... I don't consider the whole sequence new information. I'm not even going to consider it "new information" until there is a reasonably sized sequence of unique information. Let's set it to be bigger than you could create by chance.

Now Creepto is defining his own terms again in fine creationist style.  You'll have to better than this to impress us, boy-o!

Creepto ate the dog.
Creepto ate the hog.

In Creepto-speak there is no new information.  I guess you'd need something like this:

Creepto ate the dog.
Creepto prepared the mongoose in a rich butter sauce.

Oh, now I get it.  The mongoose recipe is definitely bigger than I could get by chance, although instead of butter I would have fried that puppy in tard.

Date: 2015/01/19 16:31:31, Link
Author: Doc Bill
This is why it's impossible to have a discussion with a creationist.  They just don't possess human brains.

Creepto's argument from incredulity expressed thusly:

So to summarise my answer ... when I'm talking about new information ... I'm talking about a unique DNA sequence in an organism. I can't see how it would ever be possible (argument from incredulity) for random mutation to create that much dumb luck (argument from incredulity)even given billions of years. That's not an argument from incredulity (OH, YES IT IS!!)... that's me saying from my knowledge of statistics (No, you haz not!!) I can't see how it could ever be possible (argument from incredulity), so the extraordinary claim of evolutionists (argument from incredulity) needs to be demonstrated in a model that addresses the difficult-to-believe parts (argument from incredulity) of the claim, not just that we can randomly arrive (argument from incredulity) at something useful sometimes

That argument of Creepto's is quite incredible!  Really, this is better than GG?  Perhaps, but only on the Loony Tunes scale.

Date: 2015/01/19 18:09:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Flounce Deux for the amateur MMA "expert."

That's what I call cut-and-run.

Too bad.  I was working on a post showing how a point bit mutation or a frame shift didn't necessarily cause a program to crash.  It would do something different quite likely, but it would do something!

In the early days of using microprocessors we were so tight on RAM that tight code and very clever programming was not only the rage but often necessary.  I recall writing an algorithm that changed a couple of lines of command code depending on what was going on.  It might be "shift left" in one iteration and "shift right" in another.

So, Creepto summary:

Knows jack about the theory of evolution.
Knows jack about statistics.
Knows jack about probability.
Knows jack about chemistry.
Knows jack about the English language.
Knows jack about computers.

The perfect creationist!  

He's probably asking himself, "Who's Jack?"

Date: 2015/01/19 19:51:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Surprisingly, one interesting thing came out of the Creepto exchange over on Smiledon's Retreat and that was an update to the Paley argument.

Paley imagined a pocket watch being found on the heath because the pocket watch was the most sophisticated instrument of his time.  Likewise, Creepto imagines the cell as a computer because it is the most sophisticated instrument of his time (although I might vote for the non-stick pan - I digress.)

So, over on Ogre's site I imagined Paley finding a fully charged iPhone on the heath.  He would pick it up and after a bit of fiddling let's say he turns it on.  Magic, he would think!  Sure, there's no ATT and no WiFi but he could run a few stand-alone apps and the camera.

Imagine his joy and wonder at this incredible thing!

But, by the next day when he gathered his scientific pals at his house, alas, the iPhone is discharged and sits there, mute and a black screen.  Nothing Paley does can revive it.

Subsequently, he and his friends take it apart and what do they see?  Nothing recognizable.  Not a single part.  It's just all black squares and strings of copper and a substance they can't recognize as plastic.  It's a total mystery.

I thought about this given Creepto's fascination with his computer analogy.  Why a computer?  Because that's all he knows.  He doesn't have the imagination to think beyond that analogy.

And, clearly, he doesn't have the faintest inkling about chemistry.

So, my question to my fellow Mornington Crescent travelers is this:  what would you find on the heath?

Date: 2015/01/19 21:03:24, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Driver @ Jan. 19 2015,20:39)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Jan. 20 2015,00:51)
So, my question to my fellow Mornington Crescent travelers is this:  what would you find on the heath?

Which part of the Heath?

Lots of condoms on West Heath.

I was thinking Heath Robinson who shot a condom from the Albert Memorial to Kensington Palace, that bounced into Pan's ... well, best not said where it bounced.

Enough said that Creepto couldn't find his way from South Kensington to Green Park on a Sunday, much less to Mornington Crescent on any day.

You will find me at King's Cross, platform 9 3/4.

Date: 2015/01/19 21:19:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Only in Kate's bush.

Date: 2015/01/23 08:55:23, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Orbit!

Date: 2015/02/17 19:28:54, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (cryptoguru @ Feb. 17 2015,17:58)
N.Wells: last thing on the bird topic for now ...

while in the exact same post you made the completely subjective but objectively totally wrong statement

That is my point, if I wanted to I could use cladistics to assert that Archaeopteryx is directly related to Hoatzin. I can do what I like with cladistics ... it'll only be an "accepted answer" if it supports the pre-existing evolutionary assumption of common descent.

Cladistics is just terminology that means "hey this looks like this and does the same sort of thing, therefore one of them morphed into the other over time" ... but tries to make it sound like proper science. Actually Phylogenetic Systematics sounds even more sciency doesn't it, you should probably use that next time to convince the ignorant creationist that you're doing some really heavily objective analytical stuff.
Ancestry is assumed, therefore it is circular reasoning whether you use a Consistency Index or a Retention Index.
It's just fancy language designed to make it sound like you're doing something way more advanced than pointing at animals and saying "cow goes moo" ... "sheep goes baaa".

Let's get back to the genome discussion, which is much less slippery. In my last post I put forth a coherent argument for why I think evolution of multi-cellular organisms is impossible ... explain how I am wrong without either just saying "you are wrong" or "you don't understand evolution" ... or doing what McOgre does and linking to articles without explaining how they apply to the argument. e.g. "here's 5 articles I'm linking to, if you read them all you will see I'm completely correct and you are completely wrong"

You keep assuming Common Descent in your argument, which is circular reasoning ... I don't accept CD for the origin of different kinds of living things. I believe in variation within a kind, which is what we observe. We see dogs become hugely variant different types of dogs (in that case artificially bred by humans), not by evolution but by standard Mendelian genetics. We don't see them becoming something other than a dog ... the genome restricts the limit of variation. You may want to call them new species of dog because they look different, but they are still dogs and my toddler could identify that.

Your assumption of evolution has led you down the path that you have to be able to explain the morphology of one kind of animal to the next ... we don't see that in the fossil record, or happening now. Sure you can pick an animal out that looks similar to another and claim it's an ancestor, but you have absolutely no evidence for this assertion except for the fact you believe the rock layers denote different ages of history and you believe that all living organisms on earth came from one blob of soup.
So my point stands, claiming one thing evolved from another because they look similar is begging the question ... you have to assume Common Descent, and even with that assumption you can't prove that fossil you're holding ever had any offspring.

Creepto, common descent is a conclusion based on observation of the evidence, not an assumption.

How fucking stupid are you having been told that countless times not to get it?

Please, Creepto fuck head, provide evidence that common descent is an assumption.

Right, I didn't think so.

Date: 2015/02/18 10:24:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Creepto wrote:
I am simply pointing out that none of the science you've mentioned proves anything;

Another fine graduate of Kurt Wise U.

I about blew my coffee when Creepto wrote that he was a "mathematician."

Right!  And I once pulled lobsters from Jane Mansfield's arse!

Date: 2015/02/24 19:14:34, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I don't think Guru is going to return.  All of his "arguments" have been met, documented and dismissed with examples and documentation.

However, I remember over at UD, the swamp, the denizens including the great Luskin "demonstrating" that Dawkins' weasel program "latched" output.  The fact that it could not be shown in the code led Luskin to claim that the program "virtually latched."  OMG, that was fun to watch!  Such desperation.

Date: 2015/03/12 10:34:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,08:03)
doesn't that imply that those laws of physics, the natural laws are a NECESSITY for God?

No more so than they imply the NECESSITY of Harry Potter.

Date: 2015/03/12 11:27:49, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,10:39)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 12 2015,10:34)
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,08:03)
doesn't that imply that those laws of physics, the natural laws are a NECESSITY for God?

No more so than they imply the NECESSITY of Harry Potter.

Fine tuning doesn't make any claims about Harry Potter though. It's about the laws of physics and the fundamental constants.
So if those laws and constants can't be any different (according to fine tuning proponents), then those laws and constants are necessary and sufficient to explain nature. So fine tuning makes drastically limits god's omnipotence if true.

Nice evasion, but you avoided addressing my point. You introduced magic.  Why is your magic better than mine?

Date: 2015/03/12 12:29:18, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,10:39)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 12 2015,10:34)
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,08:03)
doesn't that imply that those laws of physics, the natural laws are a NECESSITY for God?

No more so than they imply the NECESSITY of Harry Potter.

Fine tuning doesn't make any claims about Harry Potter though. It's about the laws of physics and the fundamental constants.
So if those laws and constants can't be any different (according to fine tuning proponents), then those laws and constants are necessary and sufficient to explain nature. So fine tuning makes drastically limits god's omnipotence if true.

Yes, your OP was poorly written.

YOU introduced magic by writing
...are a NECESSITY for God

A fictional, magical being.

Ani I asked why that fictional, magical being couldn't be Harry Potter?

Quit equivocating and address the question.

Date: 2015/03/12 12:53:26, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,12:40)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 12 2015,12:29)
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,10:39)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 12 2015,10:34)
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,08:03)
doesn't that imply that those laws of physics, the natural laws are a NECESSITY for God?

No more so than they imply the NECESSITY of Harry Potter.

Fine tuning doesn't make any claims about Harry Potter though. It's about the laws of physics and the fundamental constants.
So if those laws and constants can't be any different (according to fine tuning proponents), then those laws and constants are necessary and sufficient to explain nature. So fine tuning makes drastically limits god's omnipotence if true.

Yes, your OP was poorly written.

YOU introduced magic by writing
...are a NECESSITY for God

A fictional, magical being.

Ani I asked why that fictional, magical being couldn't be Harry Potter?

Quit equivocating and address the question.

Damn it. That should read "a necessity TO god" as in "imposed to god"
I'm no English native speaker so give me a break.  At any rate it should have been obvious enough what I meant to say from the context.

No trolling going on here. I just think this is a powerful argumentation to use against IDiots who bring up fine tuning

Just as bad.

"To" or "for" doesn't matter.

YOU introduced a fictional, magical being.

So, why not "to" Harry Potter?

Failure to address this question is a serious and I must say fatal flaw to your "thesis."

Date: 2015/03/12 16:09:15, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,13:47)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 12 2015,13:36)
Truth is, like Glen said, that they will just claim that god can do whatever he wants

Also what I said.

I think the problem is that creationists show up from time to time and preface their real argument with soothing assurances that they accept science...


Also, arguing with a believer about the nature of god just doesn't go anywhere.

Yeah, I know.

Even if the entire argument proves that FT severely limits what god can do, they will claim he can do anything.

By "god" you mean Harry Potter, right?

Date: 2015/03/13 00:05:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,16:30)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Mar. 12 2015,16:09)
Quote (dazz @ Mar. 12 2015,13:47)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 12 2015,13:36)
Truth is, like Glen said, that they will just claim that god can do whatever he wants

Also what I said.

I think the problem is that creationists show up from time to time and preface their real argument with soothing assurances that they accept science...


Also, arguing with a believer about the nature of god just doesn't go anywhere.

Yeah, I know.

Even if the entire argument proves that FT severely limits what god can do, they will claim he can do anything.

By "god" you mean Harry Potter, right?

You are the slowests guy around, aren't you?

Apparently, the slowest guy around totally destroyed your argument using your own words.  

A puddle is fine tuned.  Did your magical entity you in your own freaking words design that puddle?

Time to flounce, Ditz!

Date: 2015/03/15 22:18:30, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Meaning it's a ridiculous argument.

My point was that a god, Harry Potter, a teapot or my Aunt Sally were all equivalent "causes" for fine tuning, if one persists in the delusion that "fine tuning" is a thing.

However, fine tuning is a made up argument that has no basis but is promoted by creationists because they have little else to promote.

Fine tuning is only discussed because creationists never give up on an argument or, rather, assertion, however crazy or unsupported.  I think the Muggleverse is as valid as any proposition by a creationist.

So, my point is that one can't attribute a "fine tuning" of the universe, as it were, to any entity that excludes Harry Potter.

I just wish I had a wand and command of spells.  I would certainly grandus percentus my stock portfolio!

Date: 2015/10/05 21:33:17, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Hi, JoeG!  Glad to see you have a new "occupation."

Dumb as usual, but new.  Good luck!

Date: 2015/10/31 14:42:20, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Happy Anniversary, Gary!

This thread started appropriately on Halloween, 2012.  After 519 pages, 15 thousand comments and over a half-million page views, you are no closer to explaining your "theory" than when you began.

That must be some kind of record.  I wonder if Guinness is interested?

Date: 2015/11/01 11:01:04, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Gary wrote this pure comedy gold:

A molecular species changes into a new species by chemical reaction.  Each have their own similar but unique name such as biologically important “Ammonium Nitrate” and “Ammonium Nitrite”.

What.  The.  Fuck?

So, you're telling us Adam named the chemical "kinds."  I didn't know that!

Date: 2016/02/05 14:52:51, Link
Author: Doc Bill
My, oh, my but that Bio guy is one tedious prick!

I stopped going to BioBogus for exactly that reason.

Date: 2016/02/08 16:57:29, Link
Author: Doc Bill
I think it is safe to say that I took, um, liberties with Tugwell's name but nothing really insulting.  I mean, I never called him Mrs. Klinghoffer.

Rexy Wexy
Tugs Well
Tug Swell
Tuggy Wuggy
Rex von Wankmeister
Sir Wanksalot

Possibly others.  I thought he enjoyed the attention!

Date: 2016/02/10 15:42:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Yes, whales will have to wait while Torley spends the next decade discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

Uncommonly Dense strikes again!  Look, a squirrel!

I read two replies and now I have to wash my brain in vodka.

Date: 2016/02/16 10:38:42, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (KCdgw @ Feb. 16 2016,10:20)
Dr. Winston Ewert, a Senior Research Scientist

What is it with these Daily Show titles?

It means that Ewert has thrown away his career.  Both of those organizations are what can only be politely referred to as "bullshit organizations."

It's more sad (to me) that his mentor, Robert Marks, professor at Baylor, would guide a student down such a ruinous path.  Then again, creationists are known for their ethical behavior.

Date: 2016/02/16 14:03:38, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Dateline 2035:

Discovery Institute spokesperson, Casey Luskin Jr., published his first book, "Revisiting Traipsing Into Evolution Again - Part 4 (Why Judge Jones is a Denebian Slime Devil)

Also, the Chicago Cubs over the Houston Astros to win the World Series, 4-3.

Facebook declares bankruptcy.

Date: 2016/02/19 12:09:25, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 18 2016,22:39)
According to that page the CENTER FOR EVOLUTIONARY INFORMATICS is doing business as 'Arbor Ministries'.

Is this not fraud?

It seems that Arbor Ministries (located at the home of Ken Knutzen of Seattle) went "inactive" about a year ago.  I did a Google of "arbor ministries, robert marks."

Seattle, huh?  I know some Tooters who live there.  Small world - "intelligent design" creationism and Christian apologetics.  Who'd a thunk it!

Date: 2016/02/20 19:29:03, Link
Author: Doc Bill
Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 20 2016,15:28)
If you like your Granville heavily tenderized, this is a good thread.

Grandy S repeats the same old discredited stuff over, and over and over again.

Maybe UD represents "Unlimited DiscreditedStuff."