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Date: 2006/06/14 07:49:27, Link
Author: AdamIerymenko
I figured you guys might find this interesting.  Maybe this deserves a post on the Pandas' Thumb.

More on that alife X-prize thing
Attempted highjacking of alife must be stopped
More on attempted highjacking of alife
Ken Zick on the Brig Klyce circus

Anyone know anything about this guy?  He's got some pseudoscientify ideas that he likes to throw money around to try to promote.  He's not quite an ordinary IDer and he's definitely not a young earther, but he's also an antievolutionist of some kind.  At ALifeX (I was there) he was pretty hard to pin down on it.  All things considered I'd say he's trying to push some form of deistic intelligent design.  The whole thing smelled very odd.  I wish you could have felt the weird vibes when he did his schtick at the conference.  It was wacky.

Date: 2007/05/05 05:38:26, Link
Author: AdR
I recently published 4 peer-reviewed articles that each propose design-based alternative theories to areas of evolutionary research and consider my research the link between ID and hard science. I believe that the detection of design is essential for an understanding of evolution, simply because design aspects are essential for any complex system. In this way, my approach is to reverse engineer Life. Future research should be able to tell whether natural causes or driving forces will be enough to create an intricate molecular machine such as Life. It will be a question for engineers, who in general are much more skeptical about the feasibility of reaching such a complex system in a relatively short time.

I consider my use of design patterns as the link between evolutionary science and intelligent design. It is based on the premise that Life is an evolving molecular machine, and when you try to understand how a machine works, you study its design. In case of evolution, which is the continuous expansion of the system, it only seems natural to study engineering and more specifically to study complex systems. If you want to understand complex systems, you need to study designs and design patterns. Although engineering concepts such as modularity have been recognized in evolutionary science , the application of these design patterns to the actual evolution of developmental pathways has been practically inexistent. This has led to the strange phenomenon that evolutionary scientists do accept the concept of an evolving molecular machine, but fail to think in mechanistic terms.

I have written several short pieces about the philosophical implications of my theories (below), which should be also interesting for students and engineers. I hope I can further interest you or your co-workers with my studies (see also below). My website also contains information about other articles I wrote.

For those interested, here are some links to my articles and opinions:

My publications in peer-reviewed journals: Albert de Roos' publication

Background on my articles: Evolution and design

Date: 2007/06/08 08:50:11, Link
Author: AdR
quack, thanks for your reply and the suggestion about my website. I changed the colors.

Put simply, the premise that Life is an evolving molecular machine is wrong. Whenever I have been studying a machine, I have studied how it works. I never have bothered with thoughts about its design. I have assumed that it was designed and built for a specific purpose and left it at that.

This comments amazes me. What else could it be than a molecular machine in a mechanistic world view. My problem with mainstream evolutionary science is that they a) seems to agree that life is just mechanistics, i.e. an evolving, molecular machine, but b) do not seem willing to think in mechanistic terms, i.e. design terms.

Of course you are bothered by the design when you analyze a function. Take for instance a car, you won't understand it unless you know what it is for (purpose) and how it works (design). The difference between aq diesel engine and a gasolne engine is in its design.

If I analyze windows XP, I study its modular design. If one does not understand object-orientation, it is impossible to understand it.

What does it mean – is 3+ billion years insufficient to account for evolution? In my opinion, the geological and fossil record, in addition to other evidence shows it absolutely sufficient.

I agree with you that evolution happened in about 3 billion years. I just do not believe that the current evolutionary scenarios are possible in that time-span, and advocate other scenarios. I think it would take 100s of billions of years to get a eukaryote out of a prokaryote, or to develop insect larval stages de novo, or to change a bacterium into a mitochondrion.

Instead, a careful analysis of the workings of the molecular machine (and take engineering aspects into consideration) point in my opinion to a complete different scenario, all within a mechanistic view on evolution.

What I am trying to convey, is that design aspects are relevant for every complex system. We can easily incorporate feedback mechanisms (=a design pattern) into development, but we have problems by introducing similar deisgn patterns for evolution.

Another way to loom at it, is trying to do some reverse engineering: what would be the requirements for an evolving machine, and how could this have been implemented (using RM+NS as driving forces) in evolution. Design does not equal Designer.

sceptic, I am looking forward to youyr comments.

Date: 2007/06/08 16:26:17, Link
Author: AdR
"do not seem willing to think in mechanistic terms, i.e. design terms"

Further explained here: Design is an integral part of research on evolution

I often consider my use of design patterns as the link between evolutionary science and intelligent design. It is based on the premise that Life is an evolving molecular machine, and when you try to understand how a machine works, you study its design. In case of evolution, which is the continuous expansion of the system, it only seems natural to study engineering and more specifically to study complex systems. If you want to understand complex systems, you need to study designs and design patterns. Although engineering concepts such as modularity have been recognized in evolutionary science , the application of these design patterns to the actual evolution of developmental pathways has been practically inexistent. This has led to the strange phenomenon that evolutionary scientists do accept the concept of an evolving molecular machine, but fail to think in mechanistic terms.

Date: 2007/06/09 13:18:18, Link
Author: AdR
Skeptic, I never used the word design to imply that there is a designer. Design is an abstract concept and can be used without reference to a designer. In my scientific articles, I use often 'engineering', but honestly, I don't think you can study or understand complex systems without referring to design concepts.

Even without a designer, we still have to ask ourselves what the function  or purpose of the system is, even of this is not a higher purpose. Survival of the fittest, or the selfish gene concept both imply a goal, albeit a different one. We can only understand the system if we can relate the functions with the goal. I think that the fitness goal (e.g. an insect evolved the larval stages to obtain a higher fitness by food partitioning) is wrong, because the end result can never be the drive for its evolution. I also think that we can deduce why we see certain wing patterns, if we knew the course of evolution.

Date: 2007/06/09 13:22:27, Link
Author: AdR
Lenny, were your comments in response to something I wrote? I don't recall implying that there was a designer.

Date: 2007/06/09 16:15:26, Link
Author: AdR
Lenny, you don't understand what a design is. Which proves my point about evolutionists that do not understand how complex systems work.

But you guys on this forum seem to believe that " the premise that Life is an evolving molecular machine is wrong" (see 'quack's comment). My world view is about mechanics, what is yours?

Date: 2007/12/01 01:20:38, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Lo-ooooooooooong time lurker, first time poster. I'm a Tard-fan from Finland.

A gem from digdug24:

Well, liberals are also having more kids (not that there isn’t a pretty close correlation between liberals and darwinists). So we may just be able to hold on until the last vestiges of darwinists get AIDS or die childless, then the entire landscape of the debate will change.

Most darwinists I know are heavy drinkers and/or smokers or drug users. The implications of that theory are staggering, from the individual to the society level.

Date: 2007/12/05 08:01:58, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Casey Luskin to the rescue!

Date: 2007/12/21 15:53:37, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Here's a chance to win 100 $, from Dembski himself:

"I like it, but frankly I think we can do better. I’m therefore offering a $100 prize to anyone who can come up with a better sticker (receipt of payment for the prize cedes copyright to me). The sticker needs to be posted online as a jpeg with a link in the comments to this thread. For now, the sticker should only publicize EXPELLED (explicit connection with DoL as a companion volume can be done later). The contest extends through February 12th, 2008 — Darwin’s birthday and the official release date of EXPELLED."

Date: 2007/12/29 14:24:52, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I reject Darwinism because it’s a stupid theory written by a stupid pretender. Fish do not turn into birds, and birds don’t turn into cows and nor cows into whales via mechanism we see in operation today.

Whoa! A Finnish creationist got that very same "argument" printed in an opinion piece in a newspaper today. It is filled with the usual garbage: no transitional fossils, naturalism limits science, etc. I'm currently writing a reply to it, as I've done several times before.

Date: 2008/01/09 06:52:19, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Has anyone ever seen an IDeist use punctuated equilibrium correctly when talking about evolution?

I haven't.

Date: 2008/01/21 18:12:50, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Gosh, Granny says you people aren't nice folk, not at all. Oh, and darwinism is doomed because of you. Shame on you!

Meanwhile, I get an amazing number of comments, most of which I reject, from a type of person I can only describe as a young fogie. Self-important young fellows who want me to believe, quite often, that they are scientists. If so, they do not reflect well on their disciplines. They are pendantic, unimaginative, censorious and utterly lacking in curiosity. Quick to resort to threats, name calling, and bully pulpiteering. I can't imagine what they will be like when they are old, but why would I want to know? They're the main reason I think that Darwinism is doomed. It's not attracting the sort of people who create new ideas. It is attracting the sort of people who fear that the world is passing them by, and they're probably right.

Date: 2008/01/22 18:00:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

Date: 2008/01/26 04:39:16, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (PTET @ Jan. 25 2008,18:16)

I found this in the list of people who have added UD to their favorites. It looks to be "Reasonable Finns" (Danes? Norse?).
Definitely Finnish.

I messed about with a Finnish Translator, and blog header comes out as something like "Intelligent Planning - If the world was designed how would we know about it".

If I remember from my old TalkOrigins usenet days, the Finns have always had their own crazy creationist contingent.

ID-idea.blogspot is from an ideist. One of the polite, smart ideists in Finland, btw. There are more finnish pro-science blogs than these ID/creationism blogs, so its not all bad up here in cold Finland.

Here's my blog: Paholaisen asianajaja.

Date: 2008/01/27 17:45:13, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 27 2008,16:32)
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Jan. 26 2008,04:39)
Quote (PTET @ Jan. 25 2008,18:16)

I found this in the list of people who have added UD to their favorites. It looks to be "Reasonable Finns" (Danes? Norse?).
Definitely Finnish.

I messed about with a Finnish Translator, and blog header comes out as something like "Intelligent Planning - If the world was designed how would we know about it".

If I remember from my old TalkOrigins usenet days, the Finns have always had their own crazy creationist contingent.

ID-idea.blogspot is from an ideist. One of the polite, smart ideists in Finland, btw. There are more finnish pro-science blogs than these ID/creationism blogs, so its not all bad up here in cold Finland.

Here's my blog: Paholaisen asianajaja.

What?  No link to us?  Your new Bestest American friends?

Oh my lack of Go...Designer! I'll fix that right away.

Date: 2008/01/27 18:03:53, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Eversince I read Faith and Fratrice: The theological roots of anti-semitism, by Rosemary Radford Ruether, I've had real trouble keeping a straight face when reading comments like Ben is spewing. I can't remember learning anything about the history of Jewish-Christian relations back in school (perhaps kept quiet on purpose?), but this book was an eye-opener. Centuries of systematic persecution and pogroms on the Jews all over Europe, before Adolf came goose-stepping, and now we only hear from Disco how its all his fault (cuz he read Darwin, you see).

Date: 2008/01/30 12:49:34, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
GilDee notices a problem:

This points to a serious problem for ID that perhaps deserves its own UD thread. ID is subject to sound-bite attack but is not amenable to sound-bite defense. We all know the standard one-line attacks that consistently appear in mainstream media and elsewhere: ID is really creationism in disguise. ID is religion, not science. And it’s also not science because it’s not testable and makes no predictions. It’s a science-stopper because it says goddidit. ID’s central claims (e.g., IC) have been refuted over and over again. ID is not represented in the peer-reviewed scientific literature – etcetera, etcetera, and so forth.

These attacks cannot be readily addressed in the sound-bite fashion in which they are delivered, which puts the ID proponent at a serious disadvantage.
Sounds uncannily like creationists whippin' out "There are no transitional fossils! Genetic information does not increase!, etc ad absurdum" To which we have to write long explanations on what a transitional fossil should look like and what kind of transitional fossils we have actually found, and what genetic information really means and how it could/should be measured, etc. Its frakking frustrating.

Date: 2008/01/31 07:17:24, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Is this old news: Darwin Film

Creation Ministries International has already begun a major international documentary film project to help challenge evolution in 2009. The film will take a critical look at some of Darwin's key ideas and will interview historians and scientists from a variety of views, including evolutionists. Together with wildlife footage from South America and dramatic re-enactments, the program will illustrate how the evolutionary viewpoint is far from the tried and tested science many believe it to be. It will shed some clear truth on the man Darwin, and his legend that has grown beyond historical fact.

Expelled is heading against stiff competition next year. Which will be the Top Tard in content?

Date: 2008/02/02 15:06:43, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Whoa! There's a link now to the PZ vs Simmons download.

Date: 2008/02/04 03:56:41, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (keiths @ Feb. 04 2008,03:31)
More of Denyse's trenchant analysis:
Seven years ago, when I Googled “intelligent design”, I would get some thousands of entries, which included ergonomic desks and such. Now there are over 5.5 million entries. That is partly the growth of the Internet, but surely not all.

So, obviously, the ID guys must have something going for them.

Well, she's correct. Now ID has dozens of anti-ID blogs for each pro-ID blog.

Date: 2008/02/06 03:48:52, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
A Shining Star, and an insult/praise.


FtK, I will continue to read your posts carefully. I believe you are a shining star. Being equated with Sal is an honor.

Date: 2008/02/09 01:01:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
CSC's newsletter (I'm a subscriber!) contained links to the christian Salvo-magazine. Among them an article by our good, beloved Doctor Egnor.

He wonders why people are calling for him to be fired, quotes the mean things bloggers have said about him, but sighs in relief cuz at least he hasn't been persecuted like some ID scientists.

Why is there so much venom directed at me? After all, I’ve merely stated my scientific opinion. The essence of good science is to follow the evidence, and it’s increasingly clear that Darwin’s theory of random mutations and natural selection is inadequate to explain the intricate molecular nanotechnology in living cells. The molecular components of cells are analogous to elegantly designed machines. The scientific evidence in biology points to design.

"I’ve come to understand that Darwinists don’t really have anything against me personally. It’s the scientific evidence that makes them angry."

Yeah. Irreducible complexity has me fuming!

Date: 2008/02/10 16:29:43, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 10 2008,10:07)
Graduate output is particularly low in science, where the number of people with a college degree per 100,000 employed 25-to-34-year-olds was 1,100 compared with 1,295 on average across OECD countries and more than 2,000 in Australia, Finland, France and Korea (Education at a Glance, 2007).

Whoa! Finland scores top marks in edmacation? But Dembski himself said in 2006:

Also, for a country as atheistic and materialistic as Finland, to have this level of disbelief in standard evolutionary theory is indeed shocking.

An atheistic and materialistic country seems to be a way to get good scores on that sciency stuff.

Date: 2008/02/12 17:07:37, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Shouldn't this portrait of brainpower be edited, just a tad?

Date: 2008/02/13 13:56:21, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

From left to right: Dr William Dembski - Author of several ground-flattening-books, Dr Dr Bill Dembski - inventor of Tardomatics, Prof P.J. Gumby - Norwegian folk music, Prof B. Gumby - proponent of Intelligent falling & investigator of walrus hygiene, Dr Dr Dr W.A. Dembski senior junior III - proponent of Intelligent Design.

Date: 2008/02/15 02:32:32, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 14 2008,16:39)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 14 2008,17:37)
I just posted there and invited them to join us here.  Let's hope someone from that blog speaks english.

AD is a member here, and he speaks English rather well.

That's me, but I'm no attorney. Please, don't connect me, in any way, Casebasket Luskin.

And I won't translate anything into Finnish or back to English until AtBC notpologises for calling my beautiful language "Moon-language".

Date: 2008/02/15 06:04:04, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Thank you for not offering an apology, guys! That really helps. First, my post was pretty much the same as ZOMG's. With additional comments on how DaveTard is a gift that keeps on giving. "Squirrel" Hämäläinen joined to agree:

"Kuka tarvitsee ystäviä, kun on heidän kaltaisiaan vihollisia"?


"Who needs friends, when one has enemies like these?"

That's about it. I'm thinking of founding the first International DaveTard Fan Club. Current roster = 1.

Date: 2008/02/15 08:02:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 15 2008,06:07)

What a strange person.

J-dog:Please remember though, we would still like to be able to say "Densyse is a Douchbag" in Finnish.

Also, "DaveScot is a fat bully" in Finnish.

"Denyse on Ääliö" and "DaveScot on läski kiusaaja."

Hope that helps.

Date: 2008/02/25 03:52:21, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Lou FCD @ Feb. 24 2008,19:53)

Fortunately the grave is in Westminster Abbey.  I have no doubts that the only thing keeping those chuckleheads from actually doing that is that they wouldn't dare touch their peepees in church (at least not where everyone can see).

The most they'll get away with is standing on it.  There are priests all over the place.

Why did they bury a puppy-molesting materialistic nazi-commie atheist in a church?

Date: 2008/02/26 16:48:43, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Another one. I'm getting the hang of it.

Date: 2008/03/28 15:45:41, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 28 2008,09:11)

In short, evidence has been found that supports an hypothesis proposed by an evolutionary biologist operating from within a Darwinian framework. It does so by confirming a specific empirical prediction arising from that hypothesis.

DaveTard reads this as "another missed prediction." But he IS DaveTard, after all. Tard bites man.

I read that tard today, and had to stop and think how could anyone not understand the Tuatara story. Understanding that I could never understand, I fled UD.

Date: 2008/03/29 18:52:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
DaveT: "Mein Kampf isn’t even legal to buy, sell, or own in many European countries because of its contents and here’s Allen MacNeill trying to blame the holocaust on the bible."

I could be wrong, but Mein Kampf is illegal only in Germany and Austria, with some restrictions in France (you can only sell the version with commentaries from historians). Netherlands has some issues with copyrights and selling, but owning the book is not illegal. The vast majority of European countries allow the selling, buying and owning of Mein Kampf.

Date: 2008/03/30 14:10:38, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 30 2008,11:56)
Zachriel - Petrograd is St. Petersburg, not Moscow.  Still not tropical, though.  It use to be part of Finland.

Finland owned St. Petersburg? I say, that claim is factually incorrect. We did own Viipuri (Viaborg), which is located between Helsinki and St. Petersburg, but then we eated it.

Date: 2008/03/30 15:31:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 30 2008,14:19)
Advocatus Diaboli - it might be more correct to say that Sweden owned.  Apparently it use to be called Nevanlinna (which might be a familiar name to you).

Just think, if you got it back you'd more than double the population size.

Correct, Bob. It was way back when all Finns were sex slaves for the Swedes. We're still sore over that epoch.

Date: 2008/04/03 08:31:25, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

49 guests, 9 Public Members and 0 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Advocatus Diaboli >J-Dog >Paul Nelson >Bob O'H >celdd >BirgitBenniean >mybroq >oldmanintheskydidntdoit >drew91

Date: 2008/04/12 02:38:01, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I could spend time with the missus, watch movies, go out on walk, read a book, but NO! Now I have to enjoy a tardilicious weekend with our friends over at UD. There's so much tard I can't keep up.

Date: 2008/04/18 17:47:52, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Don't forget the ever erudite comments on IMDB:


I would say it is about time someone made a movie about this debate. Some people seem to think that Intelligent Design is an insult to the human race which confuses me. I would much rather be insulted by being created with purpose than to be insulted by accidentally being formed from "soup". Great movie and a great way of getting the point across. This documentary really sheds light on something that remains unseen to many people in the education fields! Anyone who is struggling with the question of "how" should watch this movie. Would recommend this to anyone who is actually open to new ideas and can think for themselves! A great film for the open-minded!


I just have one question for all who believe in evolution.

Why do we still have monkeys? Shouldn't they all have evolved into people by now?

Also, why do some men go bald? What purpose does that serve? If baldness is a good thing, shouldn't we all be bald due to evolution? If it's a bad thing, evolution should have wiped out baldness by now.

Date: 2008/04/19 18:02:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (factician @ April 19 2008,14:39)
$1.1 million at box office on opening night.  I'm not sure whether to celebrate or cry.


Expelled could be as big a hit as One Night with the King:

It made 4,1 million dollars in its first weekend, with only 909 theaters. One Night with the King was also distributed by Rocky Mountain Pictures.

Date: 2008/04/21 17:01:26, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (blipey @ April 20 2008,18:08)

I had to blog in moon-language about DaveScot's latest adventures in UD. Truly legendary texts from the man. I salute you, Dave. Keep it up!

Date: 2008/04/21 17:18:17, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 21 2008,17:14)
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ April 21 2008,17:01)
Quote (blipey @ April 20 2008,18:08)

I had to blog in moon-language about DaveScot's latest adventures in UD. Truly legendary texts from the man. I salute you, Dave. Keep it up!

Linky? (unless it has Moomins in it, in which case..)

It's in bjuutiful finnish lankuake:

Date: 2008/04/25 04:10:28, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Finnish newspapers are printing the news of Yoko suing the producers and distributors of Expelled!: No copyrights allowed. The short text doesn't say what kind of a movie Expelled is.

Trans: "The producers informed in their press release that they are disappointed in the actions Yoko Ono has taken."

Trans: "Moan, cry, whimper"

Date: 2008/04/26 14:34:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I always took it for granted that Disco Institute was funding Expelled!. Are they really denying that their fingers were/are in this pie? Really?

Date: 2008/04/27 07:17:39, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Lou FCD @ April 26 2008,19:18)
Moon Language Tard pays a visit to JanieBelle's post about Expelled.

I'm a little tied up, so have at it.  I'll try to get first time commenters approved any time I'm online.  After the first one, they should go right through.

Oh my! Pauli Ojala is one of the handful of Finnish creationists who dares to venture into Intertubes. He is the bat77 equivalent on moonspeak-forums.

I'm terribly sorry that we allowed him to expand on to English forums.

Date: 2008/04/28 07:45:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Well, you did post anti-scilon propaganda...

Date: 2008/04/29 15:37:21, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
InternetMovieDataBase ranks Expelled! at 3,7/10 points.

Not at the very bottom of documentaries, but way, way, way far away from the top.

Date: 2008/05/03 02:25:35, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
In the aftermath John West gets all patriotic:

More importantly, we still live in America, and although Darwinists are doing their best to shut down and intimidate anyone who raises questions about Neo-Darwinism, we still have free speech, and they can't prevent people from hearing about the debate in the public arena, no matter how hard they try.

Can you hear the Star-Spangled Banner? Can you see that flag flowing behind West?

Date: 2008/05/05 03:48:44, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (William Wallace @ May 05 2008,00:09)

Why do you engauge in deceitful screen capturing?

Please provide a screen capture of the mythological g-men arresting Scopes?


Isn't it common knowledge that Scopes volunteered for the trial. He said it sounded interesting. Evil Atheist Conspiracy wanted to overturn the Butler Act, thus there was a need for a trial, which could be presented to the Supreme Court.

Anyways, who has been talking about g-men?

Date: 2008/05/06 11:23:53, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

Golden rule does not work here absent a god because without “a god” all you have is a social construct, and Hitler has his, Mr Provine his, and so on. Then it becomes a cage match of the constructs where might makes right.

Whereas its totally different with god-based rules, of which there can never be anysort of disbute between possible god-given rules, thus creating the same moral dilemma selectedpete just complained.

Oh, wait:

The next logical point of dicussion is: well, if morals come from “a god” then which one? That is a whole ‘nother barrel of monkeys, and I’d relish talking with you on that some day ;0)

Selectedpete does seem to understand that the reason he complains about Golden rule also affects his preferred source of right and wrong. He almost understands that both options are social constructs.

Date: 2008/05/07 03:59:30, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (William Wallace @ May 06 2008,22:39)
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ May 05 2008,03:48)
Isn't it common knowledge that Scopes volunteered for the trial.

He did volunteer, but I don't think it is common knowledge.

Well, it is cleverly hidden in all the books that deal with Scopes. Last mention I came upon was in Monkey Girl, which I'm reading now.

Date: 2008/05/10 12:41:34, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
A notpology from Herr Doktor Dawkins. EvolutionNews investigates with the usual professionalism.

Date: 2008/05/13 04:41:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Doc Bill @ May 12 2008,20:21)
After they jump Hitler's shark can we expect a musical?

"Springtime for Intelligent Design"

I'd back that production.

Don't be stupid, be a TARDy
Come and join the ID party!

Date: 2008/05/17 03:56:20, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 16 2008,07:54)
Several of the comments in that thread have vanished. I have them saved, I will post them here in a little while.

Stuff dissappearing in UD? NEVER!

Meanwhile, Michael Egnorance wonders where some of Dr Novella's posts have vanished.

His blog posts are gone. Like they never even happened.

So I publicly ask Dr.Novella this question: what happened to your blog posts? A post on your blog NeuroLogica to answer this question would be helpful.

Oh my!

Date: 2008/05/19 12:57:02, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dave should have let his wife subscribe to New Scientist. IIRC, last year New Scientist had a news item about the ARGO's "oops" data collecting.

Date: 2008/05/20 14:46:29, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ May 20 2008,06:21)


Ok. I think MAYBE I know what she said.

Here, this should help. Lets test it. GrannyTard wrote:

I wonder if ID bashers are hoping that readers will not realize that Behe WASN’T expelled. He still has his lab and his job as a biochemistry prof at Lehigh (that’s not the ID bashers’ fault, you may be sure).



Only marginally more comprehensible.

Date: 2008/05/21 07:49:19, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Bob O'H @ May 20 2008,13:30)
Well, I'm in Helsinki, home of the Moon Language.  At least I am as long as I can con them into paying me a wage.  Feel free to drop by.

Whoa! I live near Tampere. It could be theoretically possible for me to be in Helsinki in the next week(s) or so.

Fancy a pint?

Date: 2008/05/21 11:45:15, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Excellent. I'll contact you next week. Meanwhile, you can drool over the finest sausage in Finnish cuisine. The Black Sausage:

It's a sausage. Really!

Date: 2008/05/21 14:42:48, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ May 21 2008,14:21)
Get ready to record the bannination:


soplo caseosa


2:16 pm

The argument about the requirement of a precise measure of CSI as a refutation of arriving at a design inference has always baffled me. This is really a pathological case of not seeing the forest for the trees.

I am new around here, so forgive me if I am treading on covered ground. But, without a calculated value of CSI, how does the EF provide anything different than a subjective assessment?

Awww. I remember when I was young and gay (but only in a bi-curious way) and thought that maybe this new ID-kid has something scientific to offer.

We learn from our mistakes.

Date: 2008/05/23 16:00:16, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Is it me, or is UD trying really, really, really hard to sound all sciency after all that Hitler-Darwin-Old Testament-banning Jonathan Sarfati-riot?

Date: 2008/05/29 04:10:01, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
So I read EvolutionNews again, and then decided to try blogging in english. Tell me if I did it right. If I did, there's one english, ID-related post each month in my blog. That's right, I'm going non-mooming speak!

Date: 2008/05/31 09:28:49, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (stevestory @ May 30 2008,17:45)
Quote (keiths @ May 30 2008,16:59)
Denyse tries to come to grips with the demise of the ISCID:
Thursday, May 29, 2008
ID organizations to watch - or not

... my sense is that people are tired of just talking and are more into doing things now.    [emphasis mine]

ID is losing steam because it has nothing to do, Denyse.

I have read every "peer-reviewed" article in ISCID, in the vain hope of finding one actual positive research paper. It didn't happen when ISCID was active, and it hasn't happened after it was moth-balled. So what the hell is O'Leary saying? ISCID was all talk, no research. Now it is no talk, no reseach.

Date: 2008/06/03 04:05:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Way back in the Good Ol' Days smart theists knew how to spot a quack. Faith-Healing Christian Science and Kindred Phenomena, from 1892, written by J. M. Buckley (editor of Christian Advocate).

"Tumors are often mistaken for cancers, and cancers are of different species - some incurable by any means known to the medical profession, others curable. It is by these differences that quack cancer-doctors thrive. When the patient has anything resembling cancer, they promptly apply some salve, and if the patient recovers he signs a certificate saying that he was cured of a cancer of a most terrible character which would have been fatal in three months or six weeks; or when the quack himself writes the certificate for the patient to sign, which is generally the case, the time in which the cancer would have proved fatal may be reduced to a few days. There is also a difference in tumors: some inder no circumstances cause death; others are liable to become as fatal as a malignant pustule."

Miracle cure or misdiagnosis?

Date: 2008/06/10 16:20:37, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Behe's whole comment can be summarized thusly:

Date: 2008/06/10 16:21:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ June 10 2008,16:20)
Behe's whole comment can be summarized thusly:

Great. Wrong thread.

Date: 2008/06/10 16:23:06, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Behe's recent post can be summarized thusly:

Date: 2008/06/12 14:52:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Can you smell the science coming from allanius?

The Modern age with all of its horrors was based on the notion that men could dispense with God and make their own happiness. Now that the myth of progress has been exposed, it becomes possible to break the stranglehold of Darwinism on the human spirit and being a new dialogue.

Date: 2008/06/13 18:01:25, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Oh my. I already have three of Dembski's books (gave one way; Design Revolution). When I can order this one as a used book the list grows by one. I hide the books in a drawer, so that my quests won't panic.

Date: 2008/06/17 04:32:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Or is the funny bit here:

Date: 2008/06/17 17:26:39, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Miller touched a sensitive spot with his "welfare queens" comment. It seems that it is forbidden in UD to show that, "No, we don't try to get scientific status without scientific research. Honest! Look at these ID-based studies."

Instead its a bitchy-moany festival.

Date: 2008/06/18 06:08:48, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Gil on Miller:
"I presume he does this in the same manner that he unspun the bacterial flagellum, with unsupported speculation that doesn’t withstand even the most simplistic mathematical, logical, or analytical scrutiny."  

I know that Behe's reply was reaffirming that, sure, IC-system's parts can have different functions. But where have IDeists done all that scrutiny on Miller? Is it Casey Luskin's Do Car Engines Run on Lugnuts?

The way I see it, IDeists are saying that IC systems can have evolutionary paths, where all the parts have functions and thus are prey to natural selection, but IC systems are still unevolvable.  

This oxymoronic idea is brushed aside by requiring a DNA-tinkerer to "assemble the parts".

Thus, Miller mischaracterizes Behe's argument as one which focuses on the non-functionality of subparts,
when in fact, Behe’s argument actually focuses on the ability of the entire system to assemble,
even if sub-parts can have functions outside of the final system.


Date: 2008/06/19 04:15:30, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dr. Dr. Bill:

Frankly, I’d be delighted with such science standards. If students actually met them, they would know that evolutionary theory is bankrupt and that ID is a live scientific option

pubdef dares to ask the obvious:

Pardon me while I cut and paste unconnected sentences from your post, but I don’t think I’m misrepresenting anything here:

Students can explain in detail how evolutionary theory explains the Cambrian Explosion.

* * *

If students actually met them, they would know that evolutionary theory is bankrupt and that ID is a live scientific option.

I’d like to hear someone explain in detail (or even roughly) how ID explains the Cambrian Explosion.

Date: 2008/06/19 08:22:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 19 2008,05:45)
DaveTard seyz
For one thing ID explains how symbolic information came to be used in the machinery of life.

How? ID explains how? Does it indeed?

But Sal seyz
You asked how, ID does not answer how….

So who's right?

Its a Tard/Off! This is so exciting that I had to tell my moonspeaking friends.

Date: 2008/06/20 01:22:16, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Oh my! Dr Dr Bill is sponsoring the Real Designers:

Unraveling these crop circles constitutes a design inference that doesn’t just tell us that something was designed but also tells us something about the knowledge of the designer:

To be fair, WAD isn't directly saying that crop circles are made by aliens, nor that they are made by Homo sapiens pranksterius. And it does look cool.

Date: 2008/06/20 03:13:42, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
The Cambrian Explosion contradicts the Darwinian model but ID isn’t really the tool that would be used to explain it.


A few years back, Paul Nelson said that ID is a useful tool in the researcher's toolbox. How wonderful. He then went on to explain how "ID illuminates homology". The audience listened, but heard only the usual creationist litany on how darwinism fails at explaining homology. No insight on how ID explains it.

Which leads to the inevitable question: How the hell can ID be better science than "darwinism" if it doesn't even attempt to explain the things - real phenomena in nature - "darwinism" attemps to explain?

Date: 2008/06/20 13:44:12, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Who knows, maybe it would be an ID proponent who does the actual gruntwork and manages to find positive evidence for some Darwinian mechanisms being capable of producing CSI.

I'll wager a bottle of of single-malt scotch that Patrick's prediction will come to pass.

Date: 2008/06/23 04:07:57, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
EvolutionNews mentions EE
"Oh yeah, they do use a graphic of Explore Evolution that they urgently demanded as well--with dismissive caption that doesn't even describe the book. Well, I guess at least we can describe Explore Evolution as "featured in Science.""

Date: 2008/06/25 03:32:53, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dembski has been in the same situation before, and therefore feels sympathy for that Conservapedia dude. That's my 2 cents.

Date: 2008/06/25 08:50:08, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
How would DI react to a lesson on theistic evolution in the classroom? Encourage it or rage about darwinian indoctrination?

Date: 2008/06/30 06:16:33, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 29 2008,23:51)
“This book is long overdue! Finally, an understandable, engaging, and well-written introduction to intelligent design. Understanding Intelligent Design is the best book of its type.”
–J.P. Moreland, Distinguished Professor of Philosophy, Biola University and author of Kingdom Triangle

Its about time! After reading Intelligent Design, Design Revolution, Signs of Intelligence and other books, finally, there's a understandable, engaging, and well-written introduction to intelligent design!

Date: 2008/06/30 13:39:38, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (JohnW @ June 30 2008,13:31)
Quote (Chayanov @ June 30 2008,09:59)
Add a banana to yout milk for a perfectly designed shake.

Isn't it amazing how the glass is perfectly designed to hold the shake? Therefore, God!

And the banana is perfectly designed to fit up your... never mind.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Date: 2008/07/02 03:00:40, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Read more books. Meet more friends. Create a sock-puppet in UD.

I managed to meet Bob O' last night in a Finnish bar. It was fun and informative. Bob survived the shock of meeting someone who doesn't drink alcohol.

Later I had passionate kisses...

But not from Bob.

Date: 2008/07/02 04:48:27, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (stevestory @ July 02 2008,04:26)
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 02 2008,05:01)
Someone who doesn't drink alcohol wasn't the problem.  A Finn who doesn't drink alcohol.  Now, that's a different matter.  It appears that not all watchmakers are blind, which is probably a good thing.

Yes, a good evening was had by both.  I didn't have any passionate kisses, but the cat did deign to sit on me.

I was dating a swedish girl and her dad and I were drinking buddies. He told me a joke:

Two Fins go to a bar. The bartender pours two shots of Gammel Dansk. One Fin takes the glass and holds it up and says, "cheers". The other fin says, "You going to drink, or you going to talk all day?"

He found it hilarious.

Here's another accurate portrait of Finns:

A man travels across the plains, forests and rows a boat across a vast lake. He comes to a house on a hill. He enters it. A man is waiting inside. The traveller opens his backbag. He slams a bottle after bottle of booze on the table. All sorts of vodka and spirits. 40 bottles. Finally, one loaf of bread.
"What are we gonna do with all that bread?", The other man asks.

Date: 2008/07/04 13:32:31, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
It could be a very clever ruse from Dave. All to distract us from the _real_ person behind Brites.

Or not.

Date: 2008/07/05 04:47:25, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 05 2008,02:43)
Quote (olegt @ July 04 2008,19:40)
A comment by Philip J. Rayment on the talk page caught my attention:
It's mainly Aschlafly that pursued this. Many others, including me, disagreed with that course. That was simply the first of several mistakes you made, and the others relate to you having almost no idea of what creationists believe. Do you support the concept of criticising an idea without knowing much about it? Because that is what you are doing. Creationists accept speciation. They also accept beneficial mutations. The one that they don't accept is mutations adding information, because it is not observed (apart from some questionable claims, such as this one of Lenski's). I won't ask for examples simply because I've been down this road before, of having supposed examples provided, only to have them not stack up when investigated.  [bolding my --OT]

Could someone remind me again how ID differs from creationism?

In ID they don't mention Noah's Ark quite as much.

Its all part of Papa Phillip's brilliant strategy.

Date: 2008/07/07 03:55:33, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (stevestory @ July 07 2008,03:19)
Fewer and fewer people are listening to them, though. Dembski's "Overwhelming Evidence" blog gets about 200 visitors a day. We got that between 3 and 4 am EST this morning.

Tell me about it. I've been really trying to find new Finnish creationists, but looks like they've been raptured somewhere. Overwhelming Evidence is as busy as my blog. Not very flattering for Dr Dr D and Co.

Date: 2008/07/10 03:45:32, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,18:12)
Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,17:35)
From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

Well guess no further. Sal has his masterpiece up over at Young Cosmos.  What an interesting man he is.

Its perfectly normal and completely straight to browse gay news and read stuff about eating other man's poo. Are you with me, Sal?


Date: 2008/07/10 15:04:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Could this be the makings of a new documentary? I tried to be in Stein's shoes for a while.

Shower, brb.

Date: 2008/07/11 03:33:48, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 11 2008,00:07)
.                             SALVADOR GAYNESS POLL

When will Salvador be outed?





Meth involved?

Winner gets a years subscription to Uncommon Descent.  Losers get two year subscriptions.

Indicentally, it looks like Sal's and Dave's gay comments have been raptured to Heaven.

Date: 2008/07/11 14:58:40, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
A challenger appears:

That’s funny. The Church Burnin’ Ebola Boys must not have seen this article. Go over there looking for a response on what happened to the Pharyngula presence on and there’s nothing but the sound of crickets chirping. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil must be the motto over there. If it doesn’t play well to the theophobes just maintain a stony silence - pretend it doesn’t exist.

Are y’all even capable of being shamed into acknowledging the hasty distancing of Pharyngula from the University of Minnesota’s web servers?

C’mon boys. Silence is NOT golden.

*crickets chirping*

Date: 2008/07/12 15:49:26, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

Date: 2008/07/23 04:16:08, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (keiths @ July 23 2008,02:45)
The Dr. Dr., from the first video:    
If you believe that you're the result of an accidental process of natural history, that we're not intended beings, that there's no God or intelligence behind us, how are you going to find purpose in life except the purpose that you create?  You know?  And then what happens after you're dead?  Well, if you're just an accidental bunch of matter that's come together when you die your matter disintegrates and you go back to what you were before, and there's no you left.

I hate to tell you this, Bill, but there's no Santa Claus either.

If there's no Santa then who strangled my pets when I was a kid?

Date: 2008/07/23 07:40:09, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Louis @ July 23 2008,05:55)
{Shyly raises hand}

Ummmm, yeah about that......


P.S. Sorry for the terrible presents, I realise you wanted Malibu Barbie but the elves ran out and so I had to substitute Aspen Barbie. I hope it didn't traumatise you too much. Anyway, isn't Santa a Lap? And we all know about Laps.....

No worries. My childhood made a well-balanced and reasonable individual:

Date: 2008/07/23 07:46:30, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
DaveScot: So their ultimate source of nutrients is a normal green photosynthetic plant but it gets those nutrients second hand by way of a fungus and except for the obvious plant parts you’d swear it itself was a fungus.

My first idea was to wonder how that thing is NOT a transitional in the creationist mindset. They've been asking for a half-cat half-dog or half-frog half-fish for ages.

Date: 2008/07/23 09:58:13, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 23 2008,09:15)
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 23 2008,04:20)
deadman_932: I don't give a shit about Bentley's tattoos or his World Wrestling Federation -style revivalist hucksterism, but *the idea that Dembski was so desperate and so fucking stupid as to bother to GO for Bentley's shit is telling,*
particularly when he was apparently already aware of the less-than-credible aspects of Bentley's little act.
Dembski is constitutionally unable to spot a con-man or a faker.  
Which explains a lot.

To his credit, he mentioned the experience on UD here  and he did say he thought this particular faker was probably a faker from the beginning.  Probably the tatoos.

Keep in mind Dembski also believes in the bible code and also believes that angels are as real as you and I.  

His favorite co-author believes Sun Myung Moon is the second coming of Jesus (Jesus v2.0).

Dembski is not just a con-man, he's a kook too.

A perfect example of crank magnetism. No wonder the word fits him. Dembski and UD were the inspiration for the term.

Date: 2008/07/25 07:53:37, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (olegt @ July 25 2008,06:00)
kairosfocus sez:
Pardon a fairly direct observation: when adherents of — and, especially, advocates for — a theory/research programme begin to disavow their more or less direct intellectual progenitors, that is a telling sign.

It sure is, Gordon.  ID isn't creationism in a cheap tuxedo, right?

Whoa there! He didn't specify what kind of a sign it is. Could mean anything.

Date: 2008/07/26 02:56:35, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

Date: 2008/07/27 05:51:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Hmm. When more than one crank magnetic man assembles to a single webpage, the crank magnetism factor inreaces exponentially. Thus, UD is reaching critical mass with each new member. It already has pretty much every "scientific controversy", now that vaccines are on the table. Add the UFO stories & biblical prophecy discussions to the mix and the end is in sight.

Date: 2008/08/01 04:21:28, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I read his book, The Irrational Atheist. It wasn't as bad as some people were saying it was. But I do recommend that you skip the first chapter and focus on the stuff after it.

Date: 2008/08/01 08:22:32, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Kairosfocus: PS: I must note that I am rather uncomfortable with the level of language used in the OP and its headline.

You're not alone. It was - after all - written by O'leary.

Date: 2008/08/04 06:32:04, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 04 2008,06:05)

6) PaV returns with "However, this mechanism presupposes that duplicated genes have no function, and are therefore free to neutrally evolve–something which is now being questioned since psuedogenes have been found to be involved in gene regulation."  Actually, PaV, duplicated genes have exactly the same function as the gene they were copied from.  But if they get zapped by a mutation, the organism doesn't miss them because the original gene is still there, doing it's thing.

That was the point where I had to stop reading go play WoW. If one cannot understand the basics of gene duplication, one sure as hell shouldn't be commenting on anything gene-related.

Date: 2008/08/04 06:32:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Aug. 04 2008,06:32)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Aug. 04 2008,06:05)

6) PaV returns with "However, this mechanism presupposes that duplicated genes have no function, and are therefore free to neutrally evolve–something which is now being questioned since psuedogenes have been found to be involved in gene regulation."  Actually, PaV, duplicated genes have exactly the same function as the gene they were copied from.  But if they get zapped by a mutation, the organism doesn't miss them because the original gene is still there, doing it's thing.

That was the point where I had to stop reading go play WoW. If one cannot understand the basics of gene duplication, one sure as hell shouldn't be commenting on anything gene-related.

"and go play Wow."

Date: 2008/08/07 02:45:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Aug. 06 2008,11:51)
Recall that FtK grabbed a picture (of a baby goose) from my website back in May, when she redecorated her blog in sunny yellow tones.

Recall that she doesn't know how to use imageshack or flicker or any of the image banks that are used by competent bloggers, so she merely linked to the image on my website, and placed it at the top of her "picz".

Recall that she has previously claimed to be able to know my motives better than I do.

Recall that she has previously said that I am an "old grouch" with no sense of humor.

Given all of those historical facts, you really gotta wonder why she didn't see this one coming (screen shot of her blog from yesterday).

Well played, sir.

Date: 2008/08/25 04:04:40, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dave learns the limits of the Big Tent[tm]:

Also with an apology to Jonathan Wells for calling him a “Moonie”. I had no idea it was considered by many to be derogatory. I thought it was merely a neutral descriptive like “Jehovah” or “Mormon” or “Amish”.

Date: 2008/09/03 17:39:29, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 03 2008,14:20)
PaV fails to acknowledge the role of [changing] environments in evolution:


Error 404 - Not Found

Hope that doesn't happen again. Could there be a bug in UD's code or something?

Date: 2008/09/09 17:28:26, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Brace yourselves! Expelled!-dvd is coming! I got email from Disco Insitute:

Help Us Get Lawmakers Expelled.

We’re excited to be able to tell you that on October 21st Expelled: No Intelligence Allow, starring Ben Stein, will be released on DVD.  In Expelled, Stein  brilliantly exposed the widespread persecution of scientists and educators who are pursuing legitimate science that challenges Darwin’s theory of evolution.



We would like to widely distribute the DVD to key policy makers, opinion makers and leaders throughout the country.  Such distribution takes more money than we have budget for right now. So, we’re looking for donations to help underwrite the cost of sending the DVD to these individuals.  Donations of any amount are welcome.  The cost of purchasing and distributing one DVD is about $25, so your donation of $100 will help us to send 4 DVDs.  We want to send out as many DVDs as possible Click here to donate now.


If you run a church or school bookstore and would like to stock Expelled we can help you get a special wholesale price, if you pre-order 25 copies or more. By ordering together in quantity we may be able to get the cost per DVD reduced up to 50% off of the retail price.  This is a limited one time offer and we estimate the cost of 25 DVDs to be $300, plus shipping.  For bulk orders contact us at the e-mail or phone number below.

We have to move quickly to guarantee that the costs don’t go up.  The DVD is going into production soon, so orders must be placed and paid for by Wednesday, Sept. 17th.  Please contact Janine Dixon at, (206) 292-0401 x108 to start the order process.

Thank you for your support,

Robert Crowther

Director of Communications

Center for Science & Culture

Order yours today. Stocks are limited.

It must be pure chance that I got my copy of Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial today.

Date: 2008/09/18 03:08:30, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
IDeists may have learned something from UD, as the Nota Bene newsletter from Disco Institute's Anika Smith says this about LeVake:


A Science Teacher’s Story: Denied Academic Freedom to Challenge Darwin

Can thought crimes against Darwin get you fired?  Just ask former high school biology teacher Rodney LeVake, featured in a series of two podcasts at ID The Future:

On this episode of ID The Future, CSC’s Casey Luskin interviews Rodney LeVake, the plaintiff in the Academic Freedom court case LeVake vs. Independent School District #656. LeVake, a former high school biology teacher, informally expressed doubts about evolution to a colleague who then reported him to the principal. LeVake ended up losing his biology position, not because he taught creationism or intelligent design, but merely because he expressed reservations about evolution to a colleague.

Still claiming everything is due to a ratting colleague, nothing about the paper LeVake wrote to his superiors.

Date: 2008/09/22 08:02:54, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
So many banninations. Thinned ranks. Oh my. It seems someone will infiltrate UD in the form of a sockpuppet.

But when and how? That's a secret.

Date: 2008/09/24 08:48:48, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
[font='Comic Sans MS']
That said I’d love to have a president who just comes right out and tells the president of Iran that he can’t be both batsht crazy AND have nuclear weapons - destroy them or we will. Palin would probably do that - cut straight though all the undending, uselss diplomatic doubletalk and resolve the problem one way or another while it’s still manageable.

Why am I hearing America, Fuck yeah!-theme song in my head?

Date: 2008/10/11 11:49:08, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Peter Henderson @ Oct. 11 2008,10:17)
Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.

AiG Doesn't like it:

Ken Ham must have given a really tardiliciously stinky performance if AiG's blog highlights this as wit and wisdom of Ham:

As Maher interviews Ken in his office later, Ken is able to answer Maher’s questions well and rationally—even on the nature of God. Ken turns the tables on Maher by asking him a question he can’t answer: “Bill, are you God?” Maher is left with no answer other than “no” and then silence.

Maher sure got served.

Date: 2008/10/23 15:41:23, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
But Dembski is no stranger to confrontation. The mainstream science community rejects Dembski's work and research based upon his ideas of intelligent design.

And what ID research could be the target for these rejections?

Date: 2008/10/27 04:43:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I noticed early, but thought it is part of Stein's "humor".

Date: 2008/10/30 17:50:48, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
If UD's a bit quiet, check out Michael Egnor's latest Titanic Supercharge against materialism.

The materialist project to explain the mind reads less like a compendium of scientific and philosophical investigation than like a psychiatrist’s case log. Succinctly, the materialist project is batsh*t. The mind is a catastrophe for materialism. Materialism doesn’t explain the mind, and it probably can’t explain the mind. Materialism flounders on the hard problem of consciousness — the problem of understanding how it is that we are subjects and not just objects. Now a number of scientists and other academics are challenging this repellent materialist nonsense. There’s no scientific or even logical justification for the inference that the mind is merely the brain, without remainder, and the philosophical and sociological implications of the materialist view of the mind are abhorrent. Now there’s a reality-based push-back to materialist superstition, and the materialists have an insurrection on their hands.

The meat-robots are stirring.

Date: 2008/11/06 17:48:52, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 06 2008,16:45)

So not only do individual embarrassing comments disapparate, but entire threads get 404'd?  Just wow.
I guess I'm still learning about the UD way, as the rest of you don't seem surprised at all, and accept this as Situation Normal.

Don't worry, sledgehammer. You'll get used to it. Then you'll like it. Then it becomes an addiction.

Date: 2008/11/10 06:41:17, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 10 2008,04:53)
Quote (BeheKilledDarwinism @ Nov. 10 2008,03:51)
So how long do you guys think it'll be before the majority of science is ready to move out of the Dark Ages of 19th century pseudoscience (Darwinism) and into the Intelligent Ages - modern molecular science and genetic engineering aka Intelligent Design?

I'd say just after Behe publishes a peer reviewed paper on Intelligent Design in a respected journal.

About 10 minutes after that.

Is this close enough? Ricky Sternberg published about biological information:


DNA codes and information: formal structures and relational causes.Sternberg RV.
Biologic Institute, Redmond, WA 98052, USA.

Recently the terms "codes" and "information" as used in the context of molecular biology have been the subject of much discussion. Here I propose that a variety of structural realism can assist us in rethinking the concepts of DNA codes and information apart from semantic criteria. Using the genetic code as a theoretical backdrop, a necessary distinction is made between codes qua symbolic representations and information qua structure that accords with data. Structural attractors are also shown to be entailed by the mapping relation that any DNA code is a part of (as the domain). In this framework, these attractors are higher-order informational structures that obviate any "DNA-centric" reductionism. In addition to the implications that are discussed, this approach validates the array of coding systems now recognized in molecular biology.

Biological Institute is much more active than ISCID!Thanks to the anonymous commenter in my blog for tipping me on this.

Date: 2008/11/11 03:36:49, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Oh BarryA:

Fross, your comment at [5] fascinates me. You use words and phrases like “good quality,” “fair,” “good people,” “should be treated,” “should have the opportunity,” “should [not] be taken,” etc. Yet, you seem oblivious to the fact that if your fundamental premise is correct, it follows as surely as night follows day that these words and phrases are utterly meaningless. The way you manage the cognitive dissonance is a wonder to behold.

Yes, sir. If there's no God, then we as a society can't know what is morally acceptable and what is to be condemned. Humans need an Authority to get that kind of information.

Date: 2008/11/13 03:57:41, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (bystander @ Nov. 13 2008,00:11)
A bit of a dilemma for Dave. He has been pwned but can he actually banninate somebody from Nature.

The bigger the bannination, the bigger, err, notch on Dave's belt.

Date: 2008/11/18 18:08:01, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (JLT @ Nov. 18 2008,17:10)

** Scroll down to "Intelligent Design is Not a Valid Theory Since it Does Not Make Predictions" and kill some brain cells.

Lucky for us, that list doesn't mention Dembski and the unanswered "real CSI"  vs "apparent CSI" question. Arm your sockpuppets!

Date: 2008/11/22 13:07:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Zachriel @ Nov. 22 2008,11:01)

I wanted to find any references to Richard Hirsch's research paper from 2000. Here is a Google for Richard Hirsch and junk dna.

You're just proving that Overwhelming Indiffer... Evidence is the leading front on scientific research.

Date: 2008/11/22 16:45:00, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Kid kills himself after reading God delusion. Vox Day laments:

Such a waste. It's tragic to think that after reaching the correct logical conclusion to Dawkinsian moral logic, the unfortunate young man didn't see fit to shoot the pretentious Archbishop of High Church Atheism first.

Date: 2008/11/27 15:01:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (BopDiddy @ Nov. 27 2008,14:26)
Quote (J-Dog @ Nov. 27 2008,10:45)
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Nov. 27 2008,10:41)
Hey folks: You may enjoy this little interview  I did after an Expelled screening recently: <a href="[URL=" target="_blank">interview</a>]interview[/URL]

Kevin you ignoramus - Please learn to link the right way.

Thank you.

Here's a link example: Expelled: the whole steaming turd.  

Yup, the whole movie, at least while it lasts.

EDIT: Yes, it's the real thing, broken up into YouTube bits.  Yes, it's horrific!  Don't say I didn't warn you!

Watched the first 8 mins.

"What happened to doctor Sternberg was terrible"

- Stein.

So, what happened to him? Do I find out later in the film?

Date: 2008/12/02 09:58:05, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (lkeithlu @ Dec. 02 2008,09:35)
I tried to point out that dog breeds are NOT species and humans drove a third of mammals extinct in Madagascar. Appears I am still banned. :angry:

Don't you see? Clearly Denyse O'really is saying that there are more variant biodiversity types in existence, due to human interaction with the environment. First, there were mammals everywhere, then, human ate some of them away. Thus we now have areas with mammals and areas without certain mammals (where they previously were). That is more variation than before, ergo more biodivercity.

Read her books!

Date: 2008/12/03 17:16:40, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Dec. 03 2008,16:22)
Patrick once again makes his excuses and leaves.

Well, just leaves actually

4:46 pm

Prof Olofsson,

Sorry if I seemed to be directing that at you. I think your criticisms are interesting and that if they lead to the tightening up of ID tools and methodology–if warranted–then it would be fruitful.

In any case I need to get going now.

All talk and copying other peoples work is Patrick.

Is there a list of "ID tools and methodology" Patrick?

I'll get me coat.

Date: 2008/12/04 14:39:39, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
[quote=Bob O'H,Dec. 04 2008,14:11]  
Quote (dogdidit @ Dec. 04 2008,11:55)
Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 04 2008,09:34)
Wrote a textbook on statistics and is apparently a Zapatista:        
Olofsson: Basta!

Basta is Swedish for sauna.

Over here in Finland it is well known that basta is of inferior quality, and so we should feel sorry for Prof. Olofsson.

Bastu is swedish for sauna, not basta.

Some day I'll show you how to go to sauna, the traditional style.

Date: 2008/12/07 02:52:02, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Clive Hayden to the rescue:



3:06 am


I deleted your first comment on this post because of the snide tone. I’ve seen your arguments, and they are usually mostly civil, so I have no problem….But this last comment flew all over me. Do not be rude, snide, or have any condescending demeanor, or I will ban you.

Date: 2008/12/21 05:25:22, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I, for one, applaud PaV's daring venture into the world of biology. Maybe in 2009 PaV will skip straight into what researchers discovered in the 90's. UD is slowly but uncertainly cathing up with the rest of the world.

Date: 2008/12/21 07:31:26, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Happy Holidays, folks!

Date: 2008/12/22 09:51:49, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Over at Evolution News &Views, Michael Egnor obliterates a couple of irony meters:

Here’s some advice, Elf: you’ve read too much Darwinian "fantasy erotica." Take a cold shower, and then introduce yourself to science and history.

Date: 2009/01/10 17:12:01, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (jeffox @ Jan. 10 2009,16:24)
Ya ya, I'm sure you (and the producers of Expelled) made a ton of money.  Ha ha.

Come on. That's just cruel.

Date: 2009/01/15 16:32:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
This looks interesting:

The Louisiana Board of Elementary and Secondary Education (BESE) voted unanimously to adopt rules today implementing the Louisiana Science Education Act (LSEA), the landmark academic freedom bill passed last summer.

The rules approved by the BESE effectuate the academic freedom bill’s purpose to allow teachers to use supplementary materials to teach controversial scientific theories without threat of recrimination.

A subcommittee of the Board removed a provision prohibiting intelligent design before passing the rules unanimously. The legally redundant provision would have gone beyond the intent of the legislation and was dropped after the subcommittee heard testimony from supporters and opponents of the language.

In adopting these rules, the BESE reiterated its support for academic freedom for teachers to teach controversial scientific theories.

According to Discovery Institute education policy analyst Casey Luskin, “This is another victory for Louisiana students and teachers to have a climate of academic freedom to learn about scientific controversies over evolution and other topics in the curriculum.”

Date: 2009/01/17 03:15:52, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Nils Ruhr @ Jan. 16 2009,14:39)
Behe has kicked Miller's ass

Miller will never recognize his own failure, since he's too proud (dogmatic).

Short take on Behe's second response: "Scientists' results are suggestive, tentative. But even if true, it would still require design. I win!"

Date: 2009/01/17 13:08:44, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Quack @ Jan. 17 2009,09:25)
Recently, at the Post-Darwinist, I have received many posts from Darwinists who protested my mentioning the fact that the recent school shooting in Finland was driven by social Darwinism. Some of them have resolved never to read my blog again as a result.

What? Darwinists who are not tardoholics?

It's true. When she wrote about Pekka Eric Auvinen for the first time I left a neutral comment on her blog. Then she wrote some more about the issue. I wagered it best not to express my thoughts any further, as they are anything but productive. I haven't visited her blogs since.

Date: 2009/01/17 17:58:24, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 17 2009,16:15)
Quote (sparc @ Jan. 17 2009,14:49)
I haven't visited her blogs since.
Who actually does?

check out her sitemeter traffic:

she gets about 10% the traffic we do.

Ha! Less traffic than to my obscure finnish blog. But then again, I do blog about tits.

Date: 2009/01/17 18:33:13, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
You sure took your time to notice, damnit!

Thank you, people!

"Anxious Dembski sweat."

I was supposed to eat some cake, but now I can't.

Date: 2009/02/18 17:21:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Hyvää syntymäpäivää, Bob!

Date: 2009/02/22 14:52:44, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
StephenB's mysterious @18 is proof positive of a possession. The devil made him do it. QED.

Date: 2009/02/28 05:03:09, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

Date: 2009/03/01 13:36:29, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
GrannyTard gets a special mention in the new New Scientist:

Authors with religious motives make shameless appeals to common sense, from the staid - "There is nothing we can be more certain of than the reality of our sense of self" (James Le Fanu in Why Us?) - to the silly - "Yer granny was an ape!" (creationist blogger Denyse O'Leary). If common sense were a reliable guide, we wouldn't need science in the first place.

Congratz, O'Leary! Your name is spreading in popular science.

Date: 2009/03/02 15:10:05, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
When the Disco Institute is campaigning for Academic Freedom, let them nevah again cry that it has absolutely nothing to do with creationism.

Date: 2009/03/09 17:57:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
StephenB replies to George:

Right now, am too busy providing remedial education for moral relativists to chase down web sites. Besides, I need to get back to work very soon.

Damn! It was so close. Better luck next time, George.

Date: 2009/03/11 13:57:08, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Arthur Smith engages in the GrannyChallenge:
I wonder if Kariosfocus may like to inject some of his broad knowledge on the subject?

According to my calculations, Arthur Smith used sarcasm.

Date: 2009/03/18 10:39:51, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 17 2009,20:55)
Science denial now with added Anti-vax

Everytime I go to Voxday's blog I die a little inside.

Date: 2009/03/24 16:42:19, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (afarensis @ Mar. 23 2009,20:20)

Eugenie Scott better reign in her staff members or the NCSE will not only lose its religion-friendly image—it may land some school districts or state boards of education in court if their advice is followed.

I guess I should have warned you to turn down your irony meters before reading that, eh. Actually, there is another goody in there (umm, those of you who still have irony meters left should turn them down):

Now I don’t think that science should adopt supernatural explanations...


Edit: To add a Link

Now that's some sweet and serious tard. It took me fifteen minutes to gather my composure. I think ID's finnish fans deserve to suffer-, I mean, hear of this as well.

Date: 2009/03/28 15:53:05, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Safe words are for pussies.

Date: 2009/04/03 03:24:17, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 03 2009,03:15)
I would say the inmates have taken over the asylum but I think we're beyond that now.

General Relativity now comes under the harsh UD spotlight

Most likely it is spreading from Conservapedia.

Date: 2009/04/04 15:22:49, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Joseph: But Tiki isn’t a transitional. It is a fish- pure and simple.

Oh for feth's sake!

Date: 2009/04/06 15:55:45, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Dr.GH @ April 06 2009,15:49)
Quote (dvunkannon @ April 06 2009,11:14)
As a CS geek, I always pay attention to women wearing nothing but spock ears.

Well, that perked up my ears.

Only ears?

Star Trek sure has changed since Kirk.

Date: 2009/04/06 18:32:34, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 06 2009,16:50)
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ April 06 2009,15:55)
Star Trek sure has changed since Kirk.

Isn't that scene from a timeline a couple of centuries prior to Kirk?

Damn. My nerdiness just withered away.

Date: 2009/04/07 04:07:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Apparently there are two Finnish creationists as talking heads: prof. Matti Leisola and Tapio Puolimatka. They have been on a road show here in Finland for quite a while now.

Date: 2009/04/11 01:40:29, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I can't wait to see how UD exposes the death threats send so Disco Institute.

Most certainly deplorable actions from whoever wrote those emails. And I am personally troubled that someone would want to shut down one of the finest tardsources known to man.

Date: 2009/04/22 14:36:28, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Casey Luskin on a roll in Texas.

Date: 2009/04/25 04:23:21, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
BarryA is eager to talk about poofery.

I have always thought the poof objection coming from a materialist is particularly ironic, because materialists have “poofery” built into their science at a very basic level. Of course, they don’t use the term “poof.” They use a functional synonym of poof – the word “emergent.”

[snip]yada yada...[/snip]

So the next time you hear a materialist dismissing an ID claim as poofery, point out an example of materialist poofery and watch them squirm.

Latest issue in ID-university:

Are you a poofter?

Date: 2009/05/27 14:33:29, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Aardvark @ May 27 2009,07:57)
I can barely contain my excitement.

Some new multimedia plus a collection of links to older Disco Institute articles. Very impressive. Now we know why the ID-community has been too busy to make science.

Date: 2009/05/27 19:58:02, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (sledgehammer @ May 27 2009,15:05)

Notice who's conspicuously missing from the opening illustramedia clip?  It has all the Discotute fellows but one.
The D-D-Dr.-Dr. himself.

Must have been too eager to put sound FX in it.

Date: 2009/06/12 10:54:35, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Breaking story: Holocaust museum murderer influenced by evolution theory?

I like that title. O'Leary and other forgettable journalists/bloggers know that adding a question mark to the end allows one to write any and all crazy accusations - which, therefore, are not really accusations - to the title.

Breaking story: Uncommon Descent blog connected to zoo porn ring?

They have a naked chimp on their front page!

Date: 2009/06/13 15:35:34, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Not to forget that Diocese of Stockholm's new bishop is a woman. A lesbian. Eva Brunne was elected with palpable majority. She lives in a registered partnership with another woman, and has a three-year-old son. What would be UD's average reaction to such news?

Date: 2009/06/15 16:24:10, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Bob O'H @ June 15 2009,12:29)
Clive, I'd like to ask this over at UD, but you won't let me.  Anyway, you wrote
In 1801, Abraham Louis Breguet, called the “watchmaker of kings and the king of watchmakers,” patented a watch mechanism called the Tourbillon, ...

Among the many Breguet clients have been folks such as Marie Antoinette, Napoleon Bonaparte, Sir Winston Churchill, and George Washington.

Marie Antoinette died in 1793, so whilst she might have been a client, the connection to the Tourbillon is unclear.

Breguet died in 1823. Sir Winston Churchill was born in 1874.  So when he was Breguet's client, was he dealing with a vampire or a zombie?

Those clockwork vids are super sexy. At least to a watchmaker like me.

Date: 2009/06/19 15:13:40, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (didymos @ June 19 2009,00:33)
Re-edited: Co-opted in order to post more Dodgen album covers:

Bah! Gil is nothing compared to this player. Nothing!

Date: 2009/06/22 04:05:35, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli


Date: 2009/06/23 18:47:53, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Clive "The Just" Hayden step in:


David Kellogg, StephenB,

I think the argument is fine as long as you keep the motive mongering out of it, and just stick to the merits of both sides.

Hear, hear! Focus on the merits, not in whether or not StephenB is lying sack of tard.

Date: 2009/06/29 20:30:58, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Hermagoras @ June 29 2009,10:42)
kairosfocus compares David Kellogg to Hitler and then asks him to apologize for it.

Date: 2009/07/02 11:43:51, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 02 2009,10:02)
Quote (olegt @ July 01 2009,19:41)
Clive: Math?  We don't need no stinkin' math!  
I’m just being consistent with the measurement. Anything that describes things on the bodily level is bound to separate into races if one wants to see it that way, even on a genetic level as Lewontin shows, which is why I prefer a qualitative measurement, like the soul endowed by their Creator, (which cannot be a quantitative measurement), to dispel the notion of race. Quantitative measurements won’t do it.

Words fail me.

Can someone ask Clive how one measures a soul.

It is measured in grams, of course.

Date: 2009/07/07 04:11:27, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (didymos @ July 06 2009,23:05)
O Rly?


Any good osteopath would tell you there’s no evidence that Down syndrome is a physical problem affecting the material composition of the brain. It is immaterial.




That's just what UD needs. More crank in the form of Complementary & Alternative Medicine.

Date: 2009/07/09 17:32:18, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Lot of misinformation, you say? So, where are the updated honest-to-Designer facts about this youtube debacle?

Date: 2009/08/04 03:52:12, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (didymos @ Aug. 03 2009,17:43)

R0b would like to know sumfing:  

Both Dembski and Behe make predictions. Both Behe and Dembski use scientific methods to evaluate those predictions.

I’m curious — what predictions has Dembski made and tested?

It is a tricky question as no one has tackled, yet.

Date: 2009/08/19 17:43:23, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I love the latest Demsbacle. Dembski + debacle.

DrDr D: Hi guys! Check this new Pro-ID thingy out!

The Gang: U got it wrong here and here.

DrDr D: Im not playing with u anymore!

Date: 2009/08/19 18:17:39, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
If you could not follow what Dembski and Marks were trying to argue, Casey Luskin explains everything:

After assessing various examples of evolutionary searches, Dembski and Marks show that attempts to model Darwinian evolution via computer simulations, such Richard Dawkins' famous "METHINKSITISLIKEAWEASEL" example, start off with, as Dembski and Marks put it, "problem-specific information about the search target or the search-space structure." According to the paper, such simulations only reach their evolutionary targets because there is pre-specified "accurate information to guide them," or what they call "active information." The implication, of course, is that some intelligent programmer is required to front-load a search with active information if the search is to successfully find rare functional genetic sequences. They conclude, "Active information is clearly required in even modestly sized searches."

That makes more sense than the original paper. Dembski and Marks should get Luskin to join in on their next paper.

There's also a bit of lamentation over Baylor.

Date: 2009/09/01 12:06:01, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Disco Institute added the Dembski & Marks paper to their ever escalating list of "Peer-Reviewed & Peer-Edited Scientific Publications Supporting the Theory of Intelligent Design."

William A. Dembski and Robert J. Marks II, "Conservation of Information in Search: Measuring the Cost of Success," IEEE Transactions on Systems, Man and Cybernetics A, Systems & Humans, Vol. 39 (5):1051-1061 (September, 2009). (PDF, 359KB)

Now the list has 41 items.

Date: 2009/09/03 15:02:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Ouch. MeganC replies:

Her ashes are nearby, so I guess the answer to your question would depend your ‘worldview’.

Date: 2009/09/08 08:08:54, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Maya @ Sep. 08 2009,07:05)
Joseph brings the pure TARD:
Would anybody suggest that the whales’ distant tetrapod ancestral line that moved from the sea to the land had “devolved” when they later went back to the sea?

Anyone who thinks such a transformation is even possible is living in fantasy-land anyway so what does it matter?

Past experience shows that providing Joseph with overwhelming evidence is futile.  Some of the IDiots seem ignorant of basic biology and blinded by religion, but Joseph appears monumentally stupid.  Please tell me he's someone's sock.

Someone should remind them that Michael Behe lives in such a fantasy-land.

Date: 2009/09/30 17:58:56, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
But was it a cucumber or something else in Denyse Canoochey's room? I need to know.

Date: 2009/10/01 06:38:33, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 30 2009,18:09)
Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Sep. 30 2009,17:58)
But was it a cucumber or something else in Denyse Canoochey's room? I need to know.

I guess you just happened to have that picture on your desktop, eh, Adv?

Yeah, right...

You don't wanna see my vegetable file.

Date: 2009/10/04 13:09:21, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (olegt @ Oct. 04 2009,11:36)

Barry, you might want to post a correction and apologize.

Oh how I wish for a...

Date: 2009/10/09 11:52:44, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Quack @ Oct. 09 2009,10:43)

Just listened to Obama's speech, being awarded the prize so soon after ascending to presidency must have been a challenge to him too, but as usual he made a good impression.

He inspires hope.

Just more evidence that he is the anti-christ.

Date: 2009/10/09 13:52:31, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Oh noes! ID expelled again! Constination and uproar!

But would you guess, it's another foot-bullet from Disco:

Avi Davis said the cancellation had nothing to do with contract issues, but rather a press release touting the film issued a few days ago by the Discovery Institute, a Seattle-based "intelligent design" think tank.

The institute's release announced that some of its fellows were featured in the film to be screened at a location they described as the "Smithsonian Institution's west coast affiliate."

Date: 2009/10/26 19:22:00, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Bornagain77 brings the science:

If you don’t mind a further opinion, the atheists position seems to be no amount of evidence is enough to warrant belief in God, whereas God’s position seems to be, believe in me and will provide you with more than enough evidence.

Date: 2009/12/29 17:32:25, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
The story unfolds. IDeists are up for a fight, for freedom!

Date: 2009/12/31 03:36:47, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Intelligent Designer have mercy, is that a link to Overwhelming Evidence I see in UD's blogroll? It is. And it's still dead.

Maybe there'll be an update next year.

Date: 2010/01/03 17:08:12, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
The critic also claims that endogenous retroviruses (ERVs) provide unequivocal evidence for common descent, even though biologists are beginning to suspect ERVs have function and are not merely functionless genetic "junk."

- Gerbil

Is Luskin really this stupid? ERV's are evidence for common descent because of their supposed lack of function?

WTF, man?

I've only seen brainless creationists spew such nonsense and apparent straw men.

Oh, I get it now.

Date: 2010/01/14 12:58:45, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (k.e.. @ Jan. 14 2010,09:57)
Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 14 2010,16:27)
Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 13 2010,19:14)
Looks like critter's note got through.

critter: Zachriel can’t respond as he has been banned without even an announcement.

Timaeus: In the intervening time he had posted several times on other threads, and had not responded to my challenge. I infer that he had decided to drop my challenge before he was banned.

If critter is monitoring this channel, please drop a note to Timaeus that the replies were deleted.

Disgusting cowards.

Slimy cunts.

I wish their dads had settled for blow jobs

They did, but the postmen didn't.

Date: 2010/01/18 14:27:14, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Kiitos kaikille onnittelijoille. Pääsin peräti 30 vuoden raikkaaseen ikään. Edessä on toivottavasti toinen mokoma, ellei enemmän.

Loppua odotellessa pysyn sitkeästi mukana ID-aiheissa. Hatun tippausta Regille.

Date: 2010/01/19 21:58:57, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Is it TOO quiet over on UD?  ITS A TRAP.  Even spam isn't getting hammered.....


Us deep socks are not only in danger of bannination....Joseph's fantasy rape-murders will keep us up at night.....




(backwards me, Cala, Rob, Aleta are all knelling in front of Jimmy with their hands tied behind their back)

We measure information with a dipstick, see.

So now we’re going to measure the information between your ears, see.

(blood-curdling screams in the background)

This one is empty, see. Nothing on the ’stick, see.

Date: 2010/01/21 17:53:21, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
PaV declares Gravity Dead, floats away....


Someone should mention there is a difference between facts based on observations, and the theories that try to explain them.

Date: 2010/01/21 17:57:35, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
p.s. String theory is probably crap.

Though these calculations are oddly reminiscent of something.....

The jury is still out for many others. Some believe that Verlinde is using circular reasoning in his equations, by "starting out" with gravity. Others have expressed concern about the almost trivial mathematics involved, leaving most of the theory based on very general concepts of space, time and information.

Start with design add some crap-math-CSI in. Result: design.....

Date: 2010/01/21 23:09:21, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Jan. 21 2010,22:57)
As a slight follow-up to my last post, clearly these people do think of evolution as being some kind of essentialist force, and as such it fails (that is, by their absurd worldview).  They're not simply lying through their teeth when they claim it's religion, etc., they're projecting their incapacity for understanding empiricism.

And yes, PaV apparently does not know the difference between "true" and "metaphysically true," or an "essential truth about the universe."  One assumes that for him there is no way anything can be true without God making it so.

I mean, it's a stupid analogy, they just don't know how to make an intelligent one.

Glen Davidson

Yes, it seems to be their creation god vs. the anti-god of evolution.  Apparently the latest twist on string theory fits the bill.
Observation vs. theory has no meaning.

Seems like the trick is to divorce design from creation-reduce it to the sphere of science, where it withers and dies.  The creationists lose interest when they hear the designer apparently may not be all-knowing, all-good. Of  course the answer is "the fall", but they are too chickenshit to post that on their "science" site.

Dr. Dr. D has alienated his core audience, and he knows it. They know the age of the earth, who made it, and what his name is.  None of this id doesn't make claims about the designer b.s. All comments off on his posts.

Date: 2010/01/22 10:36:45, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Quote (Ptaylor @ Jan. 21 2010,22:04)
Heh - REC:  

I’m fairly new here, but is bornagain77 a troll? His/her arguments seem like an atheist’s parody of what is trying to be accomplished here…..

No more REC posts, so that was apparently sufficient for a full silent ban from Clive.  

bornagain is not a troll. And his posts don’t usually have this same kind of content. He’s a valuable contributor here.


The ideas you’re expressing are similar to mine

I'm sure they do.....

Yet, this "unification" between what is in essence the "infinite world of Quantum Mechanics" and the "finite world of the space-time of General Relativity" seems to be directly related to what Jesus apparently joined together with His resurrection, i.e. related to the unification of infinite God with finite man:

What is the obsession of Chopra-types and fundamentalists with string theory?  God, universal consciousness, fairies and unicorns hiding out in extra dimensions?  Last refuge of those looking for them?  And the crazy irony is the blind acceptance of string theory as proven fact in the same breath where they dispute evolution.

Date: 2010/01/27 13:30:10, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Cornelius with the own-goal (possible hat trick)?  

(Though his logic in the whole post baffles me. I read it once, and I am not spending more time on it  Double-negative, divide by zero=God.)

And how do evolutionists respond? They claim that the mystery DNA must have a function, even though myriad tests have found none. If we cannot detect the function, then there must be a problem with the tests. There must be a function which otherwise is undetectable to us. It is a perfect example of how religious belief resists falsification

Umm....dude, that is the ONLY claim (weak ass, but only) claim made by IDists as to a functional prediction:

By contrast, predictions of functionality of “junk DNA” were made based on teleological bases by Michael Denton (1986, 1998), Michael Behe (1996), John West (1998), William Dembski (1998), Richard Hirsch (2000), and Jonathan Wells (2004).

He then quotes the strong atheist Anthony Flew, with a nice parable on why one should presuppose atheism.

And finishes with a nice article on convergent refute Junk DNA function?  WTF?

Date: 2010/01/31 11:29:36, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Fun w/math: tries to refute antibody diversification as an unguided source of CSI:


Even if Dr Falk were right to assert “randomness” as the generator of specified diversity here, a paper by D. J. Smith  estimates the size of the shape space involved as between 10^10 and 10^16, which equates to less than 54 bits of information. On page 294 of his book, Dr. Meyer stipulates 500 bits as the maximum that could be generated by undirected processes.

I assume he gets the 10^16 by taking 2^54 (works out exactly)

So, by the same logic, if we take Meyers upward bound of 2^500 we get 3.27 x 10^150...which is 5.46 × 10^140 more bases than the human genome, and probably more bases than in the genomes of everything that has ever lived (approximating 2 bits specifies 1 DNA base)....

Maths is fun!  And self-refuting in the wrong hands!

Date: 2010/01/31 12:15:00, Link
Author: AdmiralAckbar
Quote (AdmiralAckbar @ Jan. 31 2010,11:29)
Fun w/math: tries to refute antibody diversification as an unguided source of CSI:


Even if Dr Falk were right to assert “randomness” as the generator of specified diversity here, a paper by D. J. Smith  estimates the size of the shape space involved as between 10^10 and 10^16, which equates to less than 54 bits of information. On page 294 of his book, Dr. Meyer stipulates 500 bits as the maximum that could be generated by undirected processes.

I assume he gets the 10^16 by taking 2^54 (works out exactly)

So, by the same logic, if we take Meyers upward bound of 2^500 we get 3.27 x 10^150...which is 5.46 × 10^140 more bases than the human genome, and probably more bases than in the genomes of everything that has ever lived (approximating 2 bits specifies 1 DNA base)....

Maths is fun!  And self-refuting in the wrong hands!

Or, maybe as a better example, to highlight that he's counting the number of functional antibodies as an "output" to make the system look simple:

The human genome has 32,000 genes, which is ~ 2^15.

These calculations are getting increasingly plastic, when used by Iders. You could line up all the bases in a modern genome in the right order, and come up with a huge number, and sometimes, each functional antibody equals a bit.

Date: 2010/02/10 13:25:43, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 09 2010,18:37)
Stephen Barr disses IDC

And he does it in First Things, the religious magazine that featured Dembski's triumphalist "Science and Design" article back in 1998.


It is time to take stock: What has the intelligent design movement achieved? As science, nothing. The goal of science is to increase our understanding of the natural world, and there is not a single phenomenon that we understand better today or are likely to understand better in the future through the efforts of ID theorists. If we are to look for ID achievements, then, it must be in the realm of natural theology. And there, I think, the movement must be judged not only a failure, but a debacle.

Yes, Stephen. Various critics were saying about the same thing back in 1997. But I'm happy that First Things got around to noting that, even if a dozen years late to the party.

Barr writes:

Other religious people, however, have nothing to gain and a great deal to lose by the ID movement’s frontal assault on well-defended redoubts of modern science—an assault that has come to resemble the Charge of the Light Brigade.

He should have written "Charge of the Tard Brigade."

Date: 2010/02/10 13:34:49, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 10 2010,10:43)
John sock Locke is having fun:

Third, if you're not a Christian, don't quote Scripture. If one doesn't believe in it, one has no right to call upon it.

Hehe. Those divine copyrights sure are tricky.

Date: 2010/02/15 18:00:41, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 15 2010,15:24)
I’ll try to be prompt in assisting display of your comments. One of the mods can pick up the slack in my absense.

UD. The place where comments need "assistance" to be seen. Some just don't make the cut. They are expelled!

Just goes to show that UD has a peer-review system. That's as good as it gets in the wonderful world of Intelligent Design.

Date: 2010/02/17 07:58:19, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Amy Bishop's carnage in the University of Alabama?

No worries, it's just evolution in action:

That's right!

Since we've been informed so many times that scientists are trained to be rational and objective, and that science is what scientists do, it is clear that Prof. Bishop's actions should be considered an experiment in natural selection rather than a crime. For as we know from the regrettable slanders stemming from Hackergate, no scientist would ever do something terrible like invent data, much less shoot anyone, in the tawdry, unscientific pursuit of filthy lucre.

Vox Day is a gift that keeps on giving. And by gift I mean "rectum."

Date: 2010/02/18 13:19:46, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Onnea syntymäpäiväsankarille!!!

Date: 2010/03/06 21:12:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Maya @ Mar. 06 2010,08:59)

Gee, Denyse, are there any other objects of belief to which we could apply that criteria?

I see hypocrites.  They don't know they're hypocrites.

You're simply mistaken here, Maya. God did write a book. It's called the Bible. And obviously Denyse hears God's voice inside her head. God phones her all the time, I bet. Therefore the analogy stands.

Date: 2010/03/18 04:28:15, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Casey defines the scientific method and shows how ID is science. Same old, same old. However, the only relevant quote:
We don't recommend pushing ID into the curriculum in public schools

Date: 2010/03/24 11:00:45, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 24 2010,09:01)
Granville is a tard.

On cornhole's new thread, he comments, and unwittingly destroys one of the arguments for ID.
...designers are not limited to using ideas from “closely related” forms.

Well, obviously Go... Designer wanted to test our faith... in our detection design methods by mimicking restraints - set by apparent common descent - in the diversity of life.


Date: 2010/04/14 07:56:09, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
The Nota Bene-newsletter from Disco institute warns us of the closing deadline for the applications for ID-seminars this year. In them students will learn of ID and can become part of the ID movement.

The last bit caused a gringe:

If you're not a student, please consider forwarding this information on to the students you know who may be interested. Who knows? They may end up becoming the next Michael Behe or Stephen Meyer.

Who would want to inflict such a travesty on another human being?

Date: 2010/05/02 15:00:42, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
A few words about BIO-Complexity's chief editor Matti Leisola. He was once interviewed for a christian magazine.

In it Leisola talks about what is the foundation for his thinking. It's the Bible, of course. Not fallible science or atheistic worldview. Conclusions drawn from the Bible are reliable, because the book is the word of God. God was the only one who was there when Creation happened, thus He is the most reliable source for information.

Also, world *cough* isn't as old *cough* as science tells us. Noah's flood was a true event, with "basic kinds" in the ark. And it is quite possible that dinosaurs and people lived together.

Date: 2010/06/05 11:49:20, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
If you managed to read gpuccio's post you found a promising bit:    
Obviously, it is perfectly possible to define the specification coefficient so that it is not binary. In that case, we could define it as a percent of some reference fucntion, and then mutliply the bits complexity by that coefficietn to get the fits value of dFSCI.

The point is, we can measure dFSCI, and if we are consistent with our definitions, the measure will be objective and useful.


Date: 2010/06/18 12:00:25, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Hermagoras @ June 18 2010,09:28)
That exchange is quite something.  Clivebaby [*waves to Clive*], you really are a coward.  And a liar.

He's a coward and a liar for Jesus. There's a big difference.

Date: 2010/07/19 03:58:59, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ July 18 2010,09:55)
I can’t take your reasons for wanting to post at UD seriously David, I would like to, but I just can’t, given what I’ve read when you’re free to say what you really think on After the Asylum Closes, and what you say there is the opposite of your stated reasons for posting at UD here.

UD, a place where you are not free to say what you think.

We always knew that Clive but it's nice that you come out in the open and admit it.

Oh man. That's unintentional comedy platinum.

Date: 2010/07/19 04:02:18, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Also, jesting with AtBC's name (After the Asylum Closes) is spot on. As I see it, the Bar represents the place where we get the source for our entertainment, and then come here to talk about it. And that Bar is Uncommon Descent.

Date: 2010/11/18 10:03:28, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
"Evidence against interest" bit was good from Hitchens. Points out that scientists should be looking for things that refute their points. That's science.

Now there's 10 minutes of Dembski talking about the goodness of God.

Date: 2010/11/18 10:13:14, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
"Keeping it on general level" are we Dembski? One generic Good God with on objective and generic moral standard. So no need to ponder about whose god and which interpretations of His or Her will is the one and only objective moral good.

Date: 2010/11/18 10:41:28, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dembski justifying biblical genocide. Gotta love it!

God is not bound by the rules, He makes 'em!

Date: 2010/11/18 10:50:11, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Aardvark @ Nov. 18 2010,10:45)
Stream has stopped for me, but did Dembski say that "God is not subject to the same rules we are"?

Do as I say not as I do.


You are correct, sir.

Date: 2010/11/18 11:01:58, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
WAD: *Poof* No precursors for pre-Cambrian fossils!

Date: 2010/11/18 11:07:27, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Dembski has prepared a closing statement. He hopes it will be a zinger.

Let's hope so!

Date: 2011/01/01 16:54:41, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 01 2011,10:53)

She's out of her mind.

And water is wet. And the pope shits in the woods.

Date: 2011/03/23 15:48:36, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli

This could get interesting.

Date: 2011/03/24 07:18:32, Link
Author: Advocatus Diaboli
I think that this has much to say to the onward debate on gene duplication etc, but unless there is a willingness to face the implications of the existence of complex organised function and associated information that can be measured in simple and generally acceptable ways, there can be no progress on more complex matters. If one already stumbles at the starting gates, one is not in contention for the prize at the finish line.

That's nice. Now how about demonstrating that simple and generally acceptable way of measuring CSI?