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The Great God Debate II at UC-Riverside

ARN ID Update - Sat, 2013-05-04 16:07

Coming May 16th...Michael Ruse and Fuz Rana...

Click here for details...

Categories: Anti-Science News

Celebrating unexpected complexity

ARN ID Update - Fri, 2013-05-03 10:08

Sixty years have passed since Watson and Crick unveiled the structure of the DNA double helix and tentatively explained how it encodes hereditary information. The Central Dogma of genetics soon followed: that "DNA makes RNA makes protein" makes cells and organisms. Once this "River out of Eden" was flowing, the story of life was deemed to be essentially understood. Genes were considered to provide the blueprint of life and the task of filling in the details had begun. The blueprint motif was prominent in media coverage of the Human Genome project - any who questioned its veracity were regarded as subverting science. But is the consensus position robust? At least one commentator (Philip Ball in Nature) is prepared to say that it is misleading.

"But I can tell that the usual tidy tale of how 'DNA makes RNA makes protein' is sanitized to the point of distortion. Instead of occasional, muted confessions from genomics boosters and popularizers of evolution that the story has turned out to be a little more complex, there should be a bolder admission - indeed a celebration - of the known unknowns." (page 419)


In 1953, Francis Crick and James Watson described the double helix structure of DNA. (source here)

Numerous discoveries have been "unsettling old assumptions". First, the ENCODE project has put the spotlight on regulation rather than transcription. Not only are genes transcribed (about 1% of the human genome) but so also is at least 80% of the human genome. Numerous regulatory roles have been determined for many of these RNA transcripts, and every week brings more examples of functionality to our attention. Not only do these findings challenge "the old idea that much of the genome is junk", they also show us that we are only beginning to understand the genome's role in the cell.

"According to evolutionary biologist Patrick Phillips at the University of Oregon in Eugene, projects such as ENCODE are showing scientists that they don't really understand how genotypes map to phenotypes, or how exactly evolutionary forces shape any given genome." (page 420)

Second, the field of epigenetics has introduced previously unsuspected constraints, whereby environmental factors influence the phenotype without affecting the genotype.

"For example, epigenetic molecular alterations to DNA, such as the addition of a methyl group, can affect the activity of genes without altering their nucleotide sequences." (page 420)

Third, positional information is not revealed by the documenting of amino acid sequences within the DNS molecule, but this information, when recognised, is significant for development.

"Genes can also be regulated by the spatial organization of the chromosomes, in turn affected by epigenetic markers. Although such effects have long been known, their prevalence may be much greater than previously thought." (page 420)

And there are more evidences to throw into the melting pot. Ball refers to the way gene networks are structured: the genes are the same, but differences in organisation of these networks can result in differences in phenotype. Similarly, changes in regulation could be more significant than changes in the genes themselves. There are big questions about the role of natural selection at the molecular level and it is by no means agreed that natural selection is the dominant driver.

"In short, the current picture of how and where evolution operates, and how this shapes genomes, is something of a mess. That should not be a criticism, but rather a vote of confidence in the healthy, dynamic state of molecular and evolutionary biology." (page 420)

Whilst saying this is not a criticism, there are nevertheless aspects of these developments that should be criticised. Notably, it is necessary to vigorously critique the evolutionary consensus that dominates education and the media. Take education first - and recall how vigorously evolutionists have opposed all attempts to introduce critical, evidence-based thinking about evolutionary theory. They have portrayed this as religiously motivated anti-science lobbying, and have ensured that the consensus positions have prevailed. In this they have betrayed a whole generation of biology students.

"A student referring to textbook discussions of genetics and evolution could be forgiven for thinking that the 'central dogma' devised by Crick and others in the 1960s - in which information flows in a linear, traceable fashion from DNA sequence to messenger RNA to protein, to manifest finally as phenotype - remains the solid foundation of the genomic revolution. In fact, it is beginning to look more like a casualty of it." (page 419)

Furthermore, it is a scandal that the whole spectrum of contemporary thinking in genetics is largely hidden from the broader scientific community. The media provides a welcoming stage for celebrity scientists to pronounce on their outdated views, but dissenters find it hard to present on a science platform. When reading the following quotation, it is worth noting that Prospect magazine has honoured Richard Dawkins as the "world's top thinker" as a result of a recent poll of its readers.

"Barely a whisper of this vibrant debate reaches the public. Take evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins' description in Prospect magazine last year of the gene as a replicator with "its own unique status as a unit of Darwinian selection". It conjures up the decades-old picture of a little, autonomous stretch of DNA intent on getting itself copied, with no hint that selection operates at all levels of the biological hierarchy, including at the supraorganismal level, or that the very idea of 'gene' has become problematic." (page 420)

Philip Ball does suggest some reasons why there has been a reluctance to acknowledge biological complexity. Whilst not disputing the various points he makes, the analysis is not deep enough. The closest he gets is in the last paragraph:

"When the structure of DNA was first deduced, it seemed to supply the final part of a beautiful puzzle, the solution for which began with Charles Darwin and Gregor Mendel. The simplicity of that picture has proved too alluring." (page 420)

It is not just that simplicity is too alluring; it is that the worldview of the scientists demands simplicity. They are predisposed to look for simplicity and they fall into a trap of confirmation bias. It happened in Darwin's day, when the cell was conceived as a simple building block, and organisms were portrayed as assemblages with varying degrees of complexity (see here). This worldview derives from Deism or Atheism, where everything has to assemble itself: from the cosmos to organisms. The only way that people can imagine this happening is incrementally, deriving complexity from simple building blocks. This is Richard Dawkins explaining the point.

"Darwinian evolution is the only process we know that is ultimately capable of generating anything as complicated as creative intelligences. Once it has done so, of course, those intelligences can create other complex things: works of art and music, advanced technology, computers, the Internet and who knows what in the future? Darwinian evolution may not be the only such generative process in the universe. There may be other "cranes" (Daniel Dennett's term, which he opposes to "skyhooks") that we have not yet discovered or imagined. But, however wonderful and however different from Darwinian evolution those putative cranes may be, they cannot be magic. They will share with Darwinian evolution the facility to raise up complexity, as an emergent property, out of simplicity, while never violating natural law."

Ultimately, then, we have worldview issues to evaluate. Those with a naturalistic mindset interpret all complexity as emergent from natural law with a sprinkling of chance. However, their approach is testable - they require ultimate simplicity and blind (tinkering) processes. Arguably, this approach has been falsified in innumerable areas of science. What we find is ultimate complexity and an extraordinary richness of information. This finding is consistent with, and predicted by, advocates of intelligent design. To move the debate in science forward in a meaningful way, both these avenues of inquiry need to be fully and fairly evaluated.

DNA: Celebrate the unknowns
Philip Ball
Nature, 496, 419-420 (25 April 2013) | doi:10.1038/496419a

On the 60th anniversary of the double helix, we should admit that we don't fully understand how evolution works at the molecular level

See also:

Watson J.D. and Crick F.H.C. Molecular structure of nucleic acids: A structure for deoxyribose nucleic acid. Nature, 1953, 171, 737-738. (also here)

Categories: Anti-Science News

Repeal effort fails again in Louisiana

Louisiana's Senate Bill 26 (PDF) was tabled on a 3-2 vote in the Senate Committee on Education on May 1, 2013, which effectively kills the bill in committee, according to the New Orleans Times-Picayune (May 1, 2013).

Categories: Pro-Science News

I, Charles Darwin, Epidode 3: Beast to Beast

ID the Future - Wed, 2013-05-01 09:44
Click here to listen. This episode of ID the Future features another chapter from Nickell John Romjue's fascinating book I, Charles Darwin, in which Darwin is shocked to learn about the impact his theory has had on areas outside...
Categories: Anti-Science News

The Michael Medved Show Weekly Science & Culture Update: Featuring Steve Meyer

ID the Future - Wed, 2013-05-01 09:44
Click here to listen. On this episode of ID the Future, hear Dr. Stephen Meyer talk with Michael Medved on the Medved Show's very first "Science and Culture Update." Each week, leading fellows from Discovery Institute will join Mr....
Categories: Anti-Science News

Today on the Medved Show, Stephen Meyer Will Discuss the Suppressed Story in the Darwin Debate

Some in our culture have used the prestige of science as a branding tool to create the illusion that their views and values aren't merely opinions but facts beyond debate. Evolution News & Views
Categories: Anti-Science News

Con Men of Science

Do you think this kind of thing ever happens in the context of studies on evolution? Bruce Chapman http://www.discovery.org/p/7
Categories: Anti-Science News

Genetics Is Too Complex for Evolutionists to Fake It Anymore

A science writer thinks scientists and teachers should own up to the fact that evolutionists are clueless about how natural selection works in the increasingly complex world of genetics. Evolution News & Views
Categories: Anti-Science News

The Race Is On to Find Roles for Genetic "Junk"

A new paradigm implying design is leading to new insights about what was formerly dismissed as biological junk. Evolution News & Views
Categories: Anti-Science News

Intelligent Design 101: Louis Agassiz, the First Thorn in Darwin's Side

Darwin hoped the renowned paleontologist would become an ally and supporter of his theory of natural selection. Evolution News & Views
Categories: Anti-Science News

World's Leading Science Journal Lashes Dawkins, "World's Top Thinker," for Misrepresenting Evolution Debate

This is one of those beautiful coincidences. David Klinghoffer http://www.discovery.org/p/209
Categories: Anti-Science News

Bill Nye the Terrible Suicide Hotline Guy

Today's science evangelists can talk you into despair, but they can't talk you back out. Joshua Youngkin http://www.discovery.org/p/501
Categories: Anti-Science News

Darwin's Doubt: The Trailer Is Here!

It's a forthcoming book, it's a heck of a good deal (if you act promptly) -- and now it's a quite handsome motion-picture style trailer, complete with awesome theme-music soundtrack. Evolution News & Views
Categories: Anti-Science News

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 09:02
Post by Occam's Toothbrush
Quote (Nomad @ May 01 2013,00:02) Quote (Woodbine @ April 30 2013,22:43) Quote Programming break over! Back to finishing the eyes. Which reminds to say that no Quack I have to stay on this track, but the latest protest at PSC but model still there with it not going past that is all you really need to hold you in what happens in feedback, where it ends then that's it issue all over for good. But in keeping the model in-spirit with what it in culture expresses it needs to somehow be cotton-eyed with a glowing screen like this:
Utter gibberish.
I'm going to raise the suggestion that he is the most elaborate Poe I've ever encountered.

No, seriously, that is true gibberish.  He spends a lot of his time spouting stuff that could have been generated by gibberish generators.

But does anyone remember a long time ago, when the discussion turned to sex for some reason, and suddenly he got coherent?  It was like the fog was lifted and he could construct entirely meaningful sentences.  He demonstrated an understanding of basic forms of humor and seemed like a totally different person.

I got the distinct feeling he was winking at us.
I get the distinct feeling he is wanking at us.
Categories: AE Public BB

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 08:34
Post by Quack
Quote The research suggests that people may hold extreme policy positions because they are under an illusion of understanding -- attempting to explain the nuts and bolts of how a policy works forces them to acknowledge that they don't know as much about the policy as they initially thought.
Read it here.
IMHO, Applicable to all fields of knowledge and understanding.
Categories: AE Public BB

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 07:58
Post by GaryGaulin
Quote (JohnW @ May 01 2013,01:15)       Quote (Nomad @ April 30 2013,21:02)I'm going to raise the suggestion that he is the most elaborate Poe I've ever encountered.

No, seriously, that is true gibberish.  He spends a lot of his time spouting stuff that could have been generated by gibberish generators.

But does anyone remember a long time ago, when the discussion turned to sex for some reason, and suddenly he got coherent?  It was like the fog was lifted and he could construct entirely meaningful sentences.  He demonstrated an understanding of basic forms of humor and seemed like a totally different person.

I got the distinct feeling he was winking at us.
I'm not sure which is sadder: that Gary is what he seems (totally delusional, and wasting decades on a "model" which is completely detached from reality); or that Gary is Poeing us (wasting decades on winding people up).

Either way, he needs professional help.
It's a good to remind that by Connecticut School of Broadcasting experience and all else helped me lighten up in a way that the once dreadful reputation of being a radio pirate became a good thing in time. Taking yourself or science too seriously just takes the fun out of it, especially where it's always like you heard that no matter how infallible we think we are a scientist has to get used to being wrong, somewhere along the way. Have to know when to say "I don't know" and use tons of qualifiers otherwise. Then end up where I am, with the ID debate no longer what it used to be, with you here among the last to know about it. And from my experience with what happens when artists get a hold of a culture changing concept even scientific it's good about the illuminating multiplexed signal mixed into this more complex than it seems message that from all I know about it is always a good thing to be prepared for happening, academia might not have warned you about in college:

Love Sneakin' Up On You Bonnie Raitt with "Lyrics" (Cover) HD

Categories: AE Public BB

Uncommonly Dense Thread 4

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 07:42
Post by Quack
Wow! Incredible how much information surface by clicking a couple of links! Zeitgeist
Categories: AE Public BB

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 06:59
Post by Quack
Quote (Woodbine @ April 30 2013,22:43) Quote Programming break over! Back to finishing the eyes. Which reminds to say that no Quack I have to stay on this track, but the latest protest at PSC but model still there with it not going past that is all you really need to hold you in what happens in feedback, where it ends then that's it issue all over for good. But in keeping the model in-spirit with what it in culture expresses it needs to somehow be cotton-eyed with a glowing screen like this:
Utter gibberish.
To put it mildly.
Categories: AE Public BB

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 06:15
Post by JohnW
Quote (Nomad @ April 30 2013,21:02)I'm going to raise the suggestion that he is the most elaborate Poe I've ever encountered.

No, seriously, that is true gibberish.  He spends a lot of his time spouting stuff that could have been generated by gibberish generators.

But does anyone remember a long time ago, when the discussion turned to sex for some reason, and suddenly he got coherent?  It was like the fog was lifted and he could construct entirely meaningful sentences.  He demonstrated an understanding of basic forms of humor and seemed like a totally different person.

I got the distinct feeling he was winking at us.
I'm not sure which is sadder: that Gary is what he seems (totally delusional, and wasting decades on a "model" which is completely detached from reality); or that Gary is Poeing us (wasting decades on winding people up).

Either way, he needs professional help.
Categories: AE Public BB

A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

AE Public Forum - Wed, 2013-05-01 05:52
Post by GaryGaulin
Quote (Nomad @ April 30 2013,23:02)But does anyone remember a long time ago, when the discussion turned to sex for some reason, and suddenly he got coherent?  It was like the fog was lifted and he could construct entirely meaningful sentences.  He demonstrated an understanding of basic forms of humor and seemed like a totally different person.
I would expect that is due to your at least staying current enough in the topic of sex to have no problem with how far I go with that subject.

And here's a most classic study of human courting habits to help keep you busy while I'm working on the program, in case you need it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....wyZS5Rw
Categories: AE Public BB
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