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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Translocation NGO?

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Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,14:59    I'm sure at some point, everyone has seen someone say or write something like this: Quote It’s time to stomp out atheists in America.  The majority of Americans would love to see atheists kicked out of America.  If you don’t believe in God, then get out of this country. The United States is based on having freedom of religion, speech, etc., which means you can believe in God any way you want (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.), but you must believe. I don’t recall freedom of religion meaning no religion. Our currency even says, “In God We Trust.” So, to all the atheists in America: Get off of our country. Atheists have caused the ruin of this great nation by taking prayer out of our schools and being able to practice what can only be called evil.  I don’t care if they have never committed a crime, atheists are the reason crime is rampant. Alice Shannon Soldotna I've even seen letters (a little less moronic) like this posted in Forbes magazine, as op-ed pieces. the "love it or leave it" crowd has certainly been vocal in the US for a very long time. Interestingly, as an experiment, I've been confronting people who say things like this to see if they would put their money where their mouth is.   Would they be willing to spend money to see "atheists" or "liberals" leave "their" country? so far, the answer has been an illuminating NO. However, there were several people in a thread over on pharyngula who simultaneously had the bright idea of turning this into a more pro-active effort. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyng....dit.php Maybe even create an NGO to advertise on right wing blogs, make public challenges, etc., in order to call out the "love it or leave it" folks to see if they really ARE interested in putting their money where their overly large mouths are. I'm making this thread to swap ideas on how this might work, what the effects might be, and what would be done with monies collected from the effort. I've created and fully developed a couple of NGO's so far, and based on those experiences, I think this has the potential to become a reality. there's no rush, but feel free to leave any comments in this thread, and if something looks truly promising, who knows? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,15:44    I would like to go someplace warm, and I don't mean the Christian HE11... but do you really think right-wing knuckleheads are going to fund my vacations a couple times a year?   I totally don't respect what they us for brains, but even Robertson, Falwell or their dumbest followers aren't that stupid, are they?  If, so I say #### yeah! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Mr_Christopher Posts: 1238 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,15:54    I believe it was George Bush Sr who questioned whether American atheists have the right to call themselves patriots.  I don't call myself a patriot so I was not offended. Me, if I am faced with believe or leave I'll start worshipping a rat turd.  And don't laff at me.  Pray to jeebus and then pray to a rat turd and see which one grants your wishes. -------------- Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,15:56    Quote Interestingly, as an experiment, I've been confronting people who say things like this to see if they would put their money where their mouth is.   Would they be willing to spend money to see "atheists" or "liberals" leave "their" country? so far, the answer has been an illuminating NO. I assume they view this endeavor the same way as they view education: they don't want to create a new bureaucracy or spend their tax dollars to drive nonbelievers out of the country, but rather that the project should just be handed over to churches and the private sector, who of course will receive government vouchers for their efforts. If either institution happens to turn a profit in the process, so much the better. Anyway, all that aside, I've always wanted to visit India -- do you think I could get corporate sponsorship to spend a year overseas with my wife and daughter for the promise that I won't Undermine the Fabric of American Society during that time? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,16:17    Quote I would like to go someplace warm, and I don't mean the Christian HE11... but do you really think right-wing knuckleheads are going to fund my vacations a couple times a year? ah, but that's the problem. I'm sure they would want their money to have a more *permanent* effect. hence: translocation, rather than vacation. I could imagine a website where we set up bidding wars (or collective pots) to see just how much people are willing to pay to rid the US of certain people. for example, a list of media "pundits", and politicians like: Rush Limbaugh Bill Maher Ann Coulter Al Gore Bill Frist etc. we could keep running totals visible as the bidding wars continue, and when they get truly high, we could confront people on the list with it and see what they say. if offered 5 million, say, would Ann Coulter agree to leave the country? would she, as a bidder, be willing to front 5 million to see Al Gore take a hike? it could be both fun and educational. plus, there could be a serious pot set up for those who want to contribute to translocating their most hated individual "group type". want to donate to translocate willing atheists? just fill out the form and register with paypal. then willing atheists could apply for translocation fees much like a grant application. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,18:12    There is indeed fundie precedent for this . . .   There are several fundie groups (one is located in the building next to where I work) who actively raise money for the specific purpose of paying the way for Jews who want to move to Israel. "Awwwwww, how helpful of them", you might say . . . Uh, no. Their schtick is that Jesus won't come back till all the Jews are in Israel, at which point nuclear war (John Hagee is just one of the fundies who are arguing for a pre-emptive American nuclear strike on Iran) will wipe most of the Jews out, and the remaining small remnant will convert to Christianity when Jesus comes back at Armageddon.  So by helping all the Jews move to Israel, the fundies are (they sincerely hope) helping to kill them and thus end the world. I am totally serious.  I am not joking. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,18:24    Quote There are several fundie groups (one is located in the building next to where I work) who actively raise money for the specific purpose of paying the way for Jews who want to move to Israel. could you do me a favor and get some contact info. for them, when you get a chance? just the website, if they have one, would probably be sufficient. thanks -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank Posts: 2560 Joined: Feb. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,19:14    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 07 2007,18:24) Quote There are several fundie groups (one is located in the building next to where I work) who actively raise money for the specific purpose of paying the way for Jews who want to move to Israel. could you do me a favor and get some contact info. for them, when you get a chance? just the website, if they have one, would probably be sufficient. thanks The local nutters are Joe Van Koevering and his God's News Behind the News outfit.  Their address is:  4399 35th Street North, St Petersburg FL  33714. A piece in the local newspaper about them: http://www.sptimes.com/2005....h.shtml An excerpt: Quote  By LAUREN BAYNE ANDERSON Published May 15, 2005 ST. PETERSBURG - At the end of his half-hour television segment, Joe Van Koevering urges viewers to mail in their $250 checks. He sweetens his pitch with the promise of a free "beautifully crafted" gold-plated gift. Van Koevering isn't the host of some late-night infomercial, hawking weight loss products or get-rich-quick schemes. He is the pastor of an evangelical church in St. Petersburg. For their $250, he tells viewers of God's News Behind the News they can help speed the apocalypse and the end of the world. And the gift? A shofar - a traditional Jewish ram's horn blown during ceremonies, for donors to sound "the soon coming of the Lord." Van Koevering pastors Gateway Christian Center on Central Avenue, and believes by helping Jews immigrate to Israel he's speeding Bible prophecy. So, with donations from his congregants and TV viewers nationwide, he wants to send Jews "home." "They must be there, when Jesus returns to that land," said Van Koevering, who also directs God's News. "And the Bible seems to indicate that we can hasten the coming of the Lord." So far, he's raised over $40,000 for the cause. Van Koevering cites the Bible's Book of Revelations, telling viewers Jesus will come again after the Jews return to the Holy Land. He doesn't know how many must be there, but whatever the number, he wants to get the ball rolling. Van Koevering uses the Old Testament to bolster his New Testament beliefs as Jeremiah 32:37 scrolls down the screen in yellow letters, "I will surely gather them from all the lands . . . I will bring them back to this place." God's News has been around since 1948, created by a St. Petersburg minister, the Rev. Ray Brubaker, Van Koevering's father-in-law. The half-hour show airs on the local Christian Television Network and on the Trinity Broadcasting Network, the largest Christian cable station in the world. According to TBN spokesman John Casoria, Van Koevering's show has the potential to reach 95 percent of American households. The funds raised through God's News go to a Christian organization based in England, the Ebenezer Emergency Fund, which helps Jews from the former Soviet Union immigrate to Israel, a practice known as making aliyah. The Ebenezer Fund was founded in 1991 by Gustav Scheller, a Swiss businessman who said God told him to help gather the Jews in Israel. The organization said it has helped more than 100,000 make aliyah from the former Soviet Union. Israel pays the cost of flights for immigrants, but Ebenezer assists them with travel expenses to consulates and with documents and food. Van Koevering said about 80 percent of the funds raised through God's News go to Ebenezer, with the rest for overhead and the shofar gifts. Tears fall from Van Koevering's eyes as he speaks of the "precious Jewish people" during church services and on God's News. At Gateway, the Israeli flag stands next to the American flag. Shofars decorate his church pulpit. In his office, Van Koevering displays a framed picture of himself and President Bush in Jerusalem at the Western Wall - the holiest site for Jews. "I love them, because God loves them," he said of Jews, noting Christianity stemmed from Judaism. But his fundamentalist vision of what lies ahead for them in Israel has given some pause. Everyone has a role to play in Van Koevering's version of the end times. And for the Jews, it's bloody. In Van Koevering's view, the end of days is first signaled by the return of the Jews to Israel, a process he says began with the country's founding in 1948. Seven years before the world comes to an end, all true believers of Christ will be taken from earth in the "rapture," he says. It is a reading of Scripture familiar in fundamentalist circles, featuring the anti-Christ disguised as a peacemaker, who declares himself God. A holy war ensues, and most Jews, says Van Koevering, will be left to fight. The rest either perish as "martyrs" or convert to Christianity. He concedes some Jews may be put off by his forecast. No . . . ya think . . . . .? What a tard. -------------- Editor, Red and Black Publishers www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,19:32    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 07 2007,16:17) Quote I would like to go someplace warm, and I don't mean the Christian HE11... but do you really think right-wing knuckleheads are going to fund my vacations a couple times a year? ah, but that's the problem. I'm sure they would want their money to have a more *permanent* effect. hence: translocation, rather than vacation. ...want to donate to translocate willing atheists? just fill out the form and register with paypal. then willing atheists could apply for translocation fees much like a grant application. $5.o million? Throw another Koala on the barbie mate, I'm on my way! And if I remember the quote, but not who said it, "Now  we have established exactly what I am... now we are just haggling over price"! #### good thing I am a godless athiest, so I don't get insulted! -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

snoeman Posts: 109 Joined: April 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,21:11    Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 07 2007,19:32) Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 07 2007,16:17)   Quote I would like to go someplace warm, and I don't mean the Christian HE11... but do you really think right-wing knuckleheads are going to fund my vacations a couple times a year? ah, but that's the problem. I'm sure they would want their money to have a more *permanent* effect. hence: translocation, rather than vacation. ...want to donate to translocate willing atheists? just fill out the form and register with paypal. then willing atheists could apply for translocation fees much like a grant application. $5.o million? Throw another Koala on the barbie mate, I'm on my way! And if I remember the quote, but not who said it, "Now  we have established exactly what I am... now we are just haggling over price"! #### good thing I am a godless athiest, so I don't get insulted! J-Dog: Quote And if I remember the quote, but not who said it, "Now  we have established exactly what I am... now we are just haggling over price"! Commonly attributed to Winston Churchill.

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2007,23:25    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 07 2007,14:59) ... Interestingly, as an experiment, I've been confronting people who say things like this to see if they would put their money where their mouth is.   Would they be willing to spend money to see "atheists" or "liberals" leave "their" country? so far, the answer has been an illuminating NO... If you are serious there was plenty of NGOs working in Afghanistan when I was there. I would imagine they would be happy to have more volunteers. The international red cross, Oxfam, lots of UN departments, the red crescent, the French medicine without frontiers and many others all had operations going on over there. A quick google search brought up plenty of oportunities. http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=NGO+work

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,00:00    sorry?  not sure what you're on about there stephen? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,00:08    Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 08 2007,00:00) sorry?  not sure what you're on about there stephen? Never mind. I had only just woken up and thought that you was considering NGO work.

Mick Posts: 1 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,18:13    Hello Ichthyic, I'm the same Mick as from Pharyngula. The immediate problems I can think of with this group are as follows: (1) Immigration requirements: many, if not most other countries have much more strict requirements than the United States.  Most of the ones I've looked into relocating to require a college degree at the least, usually in a specialized, under-filled field, although there's always room for doctors anywhere.  Would this organization fund the further eduacational requirements for potential immigrants?  If so: (1a) Resloving the division of funds between educating new "intend-iagrants" (people intending to immirgate), call them stage one, or S1, and the funding of burocratic paperwork and actual relocation costs of those who are farther along in that respect, termed stage two or S2 for this purpose.  Acting as a college loan agency also adds the potential (however slim) of someone filing as an intend-iagrant without intent to relocate.  Perhaps a binding contract? If not: (1b) Would the NGO provide information on the  requirements of an intented New Home Country (NHC), and advice on how to achieve same, or just leave the S1 to work that out on there own. (2) The question of presidence.  Would the work done with intend-igrants be on a first-come, first-served basis, or would there be leeway granted for some situations, such as ease of resolution.  An example of that would be someone wanting to move to Switzerland (almost impossible from what I've read) already having filed, when someone else whose grandparents came from Ireland (which is a serious plus if attempting to move there) filed after them. (3)  Having to talk to people I really loathe in order to try to get money out of them.  I mean, that's a requirement, but someone else is going to have to do the talking. There was something else I can't remember now. That's a few thoughts I've had on the subject, any ideas? -------------- If I were clever this sentence would be, too.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,18:38    Quote (Mick @ Mar. 08 2007,18:13) Hello Ichthyic, I'm the same Mick as from Pharyngula. The immediate problems I can think of with this group are as follows: (1) Immigration requirements: many, if not most other countries have much more strict requirements than the United States.  Most of the ones I've looked into relocating to require a college degree at the least, usually in a specialized, under-filled field, although there's always room for doctors anywhere.  Would this organization fund the further eduacational requirements for potential immigrants?  If so: (1a) Resloving the division of funds between educating new "intend-iagrants" (people intending to immirgate), call them stage one, or S1, and the funding of burocratic paperwork and actual relocation costs of those who are farther along in that respect, termed stage two or S2 for this purpose.  Acting as a college loan agency also adds the potential (however slim) of someone filing as an intend-iagrant without intent to relocate.  Perhaps a binding contract? If not: (1b) Would the NGO provide information on the  requirements of an intented New Home Country (NHC), and advice on how to achieve same, or just leave the S1 to work that out on there own. (2) The question of presidence.  Would the work done with intend-igrants be on a first-come, first-served basis, or would there be leeway granted for some situations, such as ease of resolution.  An example of that would be someone wanting to move to Switzerland (almost impossible from what I've read) already having filed, when someone else whose grandparents came from Ireland (which is a serious plus if attempting to move there) filed after them. (3)  Having to talk to people I really loathe in order to try to get money out of them.  I mean, that's a requirement, but someone else is going to have to do the talking. There was something else I can't remember now. That's a few thoughts I've had on the subject, any ideas? If this was set up like described above, that is, like a pool of available funds for translocation that could be applied for with something resembling a "grant", then to be eligible to even apply: The applicant would have to have already passed all immigration requirements for the desired destination country, and have provided proof of general accpetance, or that they meet or exceed all requirements of emigration to the desired country. might also need to provide proof of having filed (at least, if not provide resultant approval status) the appropriate paperwork to be granted temporary resident status. "Would this organization fund the further eduacational requirements for potential immigrants? " interesting thought, but my first inclination is to stick to the above; that the potential recipients must provide proof of meeting the country-of-emigration's requirements ahead of time. the idea of setting up a scholarship program to fund the requisite educational background is interesting, though. "...the potential (however slim) of someone filing as an intend-iagrant without intent to relocate.  Perhaps a binding contract?" yup.  say a limited time to actually complete relocation before funds are withdrawn, somehow stipulated legally within the grant contract. "(1b) Would the NGO provide information on the  requirements of an intented New Home Country (NHC), and advice on how to achieve same, or just leave the S1 to work that out on there own. " that information is readily available in most cases, so I don't see why not. filling out the paperwork and fullfilling the requirements set therein WOULD be entirely the responsibiliyt of the S1.  At least at first; maybe later it might be worthwhile to actually fund assistance programs internally (too much beuracracy to start, though). "Would the work done with intend-igrants be on a first-come, first-served basis, or would there be leeway granted for some situations, such as ease of resolution. " ahh, there lies the rub; how to determine who gets the cash. most difficult question; I like your first stab at it: expedience vs. order of application, but working out the details would be the job of a board of directors, i think. I also would promote the idea of merit being included in that, like with any grant application.  What argument can the applicant make?  Is it a good one?  do they have actual proof of being persecuted, for example, like the atheist family featured on that horrid CNN(?) special that was talked about on Pharyngula a while back. again, the details would have to be worked out over much discussion. your thoughts are spot on. keep em coming. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,18:48    hmm, names are starting to come to mind... how does: The Expatriot Project sound? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Steviepinhead Posts: 532 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,18:59    The Fundamentalist Fund for Expatriating Ex-Patriots. FFEEP, pronounced to rhyme with "weep." As in, "I weep for you, (now that you're in) Argentina."

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,20:14    I weep for argentina itself these days. things have been pretty rough there for quite a while now. had a buddy that spent several years there, right when the economy was starting to tank, so he saw firsthand the effects it had. too many horror stories to count, or even want to remember. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,20:27    I think for someone my age to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand, they require about a $2M up front ante to make up for not having contributed to the state coffers during a working career. Double that to account for the spouse. Translocation looks to be pretty expensive. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 08 2007,20:56    actually, having looked at NZ myself, there are ways to counter that according to people I have spoken with at the immigration dept. a high level educational background is one of them, so don't count yourself out just yet. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

guthrie Posts: 696 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,07:48    Or you can marry someone from there... I have a coupe of USA'ian friends who might be interested in emigration, but its money that is the problem.   I didn't think the UK demanded money off people to emigrate to it.  So you can all come here.

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,09:00    Quote (guthrie @ Mar. 09 2007,07:48) I didn't think the UK demanded money off people to emigrate to it.  So you can all come here. Thanks for the invite Guthrie!  So, cancel that Koala on the Barbee, and I'll have a Shephards Pie and a Jameson's.   Ah!  I can't wait, someplace nice in the UK, back to my roots maybe... Yes!  Back to the Old Sod, Belfast, where it's always quiet, peaceful, no military, the streets filled with laughing, cheerful faces, where I am sure my Catholic upbringing will be gladly overlooked and my atheistic beliefs proudly upheld! Man,  I can't wait!  Where's that Grant Application? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,09:09    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 08 2007,20:27) I think for someone my age to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand, they require about a $2M up front ante to make up for not having contributed to the state coffers during a working career. Double that to account for the spouse. Translocation looks to be pretty expensive. I've heard Canada requires proof of $10,000 deposited in a Canadian bank, but I don't think the figure is higher if you're older. I could be wrong. Or if you're willing to learn a new language, I've known several people who've 'translocated' to Thailand. Sposta be real cheap. Everyone says stay out of Bangkok, though. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Alan Fox Posts: 1552 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,09:20    Quote (snoeman @ Mar. 07 2007,16:11)   Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 07 2007,19:32)     Quote (Ichthyic @ Mar. 07 2007,16:17)       Quote I would like to go someplace warm, and I don't mean the Christian HE11... but do you really think right-wing knuckleheads are going to fund my vacations a couple times a year? ah, but that's the problem. I'm sure they would want their money to have a more *permanent* effect. hence: translocation, rather than vacation. ...want to donate to translocate willing atheists? just fill out the form and register with paypal. then willing atheists could apply for translocation fees much like a grant application. $5.o million? Throw another Koala on the barbie mate, I'm on my way! And if I remember the quote, but not who said it, "Now  we have established exactly what I am... now we are just haggling over price"! #### good thing I am a godless athiest, so I don't get insulted! J-Dog:     Quote And if I remember the quote, but not who said it, "Now  we have established exactly what I am... now we are just haggling over price"! Commonly attributed to Winston Churchill. <nitpick>More commonly attributed to George Bernard Shaw</nitpick> You may be thinking of this Churchill put-down.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,10:52    Let's not lose sight of the fact that most of the throw-out-the-non-fundies crowd aren't envisaging deportations involving airfare, a bag of cash and a nice house.  They're thinking trains of cattle wagons crossing the border on the way to the camps. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,11:12    Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 09 2007,10:52) Let's not lose sight of the fact that most of the throw-out-the-non-fundies crowd aren't envisaging deportations involving airfare, a bag of cash and a nice house.  They're thinking trains of cattle wagons crossing the border on the way to the camps. John - They have their fantasy... I have mine! At least I don't have to worry about training those #### 72 virgins...  God, what an effing nightmare that would be..  Jeez - I wouldn't wish 72 virgins on my biggest enemy. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,11:17    Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 09 2007,10:52) Let's not lose sight of the fact that most of the throw-out-the-non-fundies crowd aren't envisaging deportations involving airfare, a bag of cash and a nice house.  They're thinking trains of cattle wagons crossing the border on the way to the camps. I think in actuality, no one here had forgotten that at all. People who say things like "It's time to stomp out atheists in America" aren't talking friendly cash payouts to relocate to Melbourne or Vancouver. They're talking a quick train and dumpoff at the Canadian or Mexican border at best, or a quick hustle out to a camp in Montana at worst. However, the most amusing thing about all this to me has been the fact revealed in the Pharyngula thread on this, where someone found a much older letter to the editor with almost the exact same wording, yet with a different name at the bottom. Clearly this letter was sent out by some fundaloon organization with the instructions to the 'Faithful' to fill in their own final paragraph and send it to their local newspaper. Some very lazy fascists, indeed. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,11:30    Here it is:   Quote Kick atheists out of U.S. Web posted Monday, October 22, 2001 It's time to stomp out atheists in America. The majority of Americans would love to see atheists kicked out of America. If you don't believe in God, then get out of this country. The United States is based on having freedom of religion, speech, etc., which means you can believe in God any way you want (Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, etc.), but you must believe. I don't recall freedom of religion meaning no religion. Our currency even says, ''In God We Trust." So, to all the atheists in America: Get off of our country. People like Gail Pepin (The Chronicle, Oct. 11) have caused the ruin of this great nation by taking prayer out of our schools and being able to practice what can only be called evil. I don't care if she has never committed a crime, she is the reason crime is rampant. To The Chronicle, please do not give atheists a voice. You do more harm than good. Gloria ''Wendy" Ray, Aiken, S.C. [URL=http://chronicle.augusta.com/stories/102201/opi_046-8549.shtml Note the extra bits at the end. Sposta add that 'personal touch', I guess. If these bastards are THIS lazy, I doubt they'll have the energy to be 'ethnically cleansing' anyone. (I'm also amused by the notion that slogans on coins are now somehow legally binding, but the Bill of Rights is not.) -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,13:21    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 08 2007,20:27) I think for someone my age to emigrate to Australia or New Zealand, they require about a $2M up front ante to make up for not having contributed to the state coffers during a working career. Double that to account for the spouse. Translocation looks to be pretty expensive. Relatively recently (within the last 3 years) two friends of mine have emigrated to Australia. Niether had degrees but did have skills that Australia wanted. I think the money thing may aply only to people beyond working age. Not certain though. I could try and ask if you are serious (I know it looks as though I am answering Wesley, it is actually directed at Ichthyic). BTW. I may have missunderstod the term "NGO" here. It relates to "non-governmental organisation" in my experience and usualy means international charity organisations such as the red cross. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Steviepinhead Posts: 532 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,14:25    Stephen, N-G-O also appears in a cute children's song: B-I-N-G-O... It wouldn't be beyond Ichthyic to cross-culturally reference in a multivocal meta-linguistic manner intended to locate his meaning at a locus of hyperdimensional sociopolitical realities. If ya know whaddum sayeen...?

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 09 2007,15:10    Quote I don't recall freedom of religion meaning no religion... So, to all the atheists in America: Get off of our country. But... I don't get it! What about all those fundies who claim that atheism IS a 'religion'? (Along with 'Darwinism', 'Secular Humanism', etc.) If just about everything is a 'religion' shouldn't everyone be allowed to stay? Wish these guys would make up their dang MINDS... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2007,15:40    Quote (Steviepinhead @ Mar. 09 2007,14:25) Stephen, N-G-O also appears in a cute children's song: B-I-N-G-O... It wouldn't be beyond Ichthyic to cross-culturally reference in a multivocal meta-linguistic manner intended to locate his meaning at a locus of hyperdimensional sociopolitical realities. If ya know whaddum sayeen...? *scratches head* Nope. Not a clue. ??? Your nonexpicit communication technique rendered me dumbfounded. Sorry!

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