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J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,13:00   

For those of us that REALLY, REALLY  can't wait, and REALLY, REALLY want to see what all the fun and excitement is all about with Dembski's new Opus:

Q For The Class:  Does this now qualify us to go over Amazon and review?

For extra credit, compare and contrast excerpts of book with huge piles of stinking excrement.

http://www.thedesignoflife.net/excerpts.asp

"Most of origin-of-life research is as relevant to the real problem of life's origin as rubber-band powered propeller model planes are to the military's most sophisticated stealth aircraft." (Ch.8)
"The origin of information is not a problem of chemistry. Chemistry can be a carrier of information, but it cannot be its source." (Ch.8)

"Chemists typically do not concern themselves with the problem of the origin of information because their work presupposes a smart chemist ready to provide it!" (Ch.8)

"The claim that natural laws are sufficient to account for the origin of life is far-fetched. Natural laws work against the origin of life. Natural laws describe material processes that consume the raw materials of life, turning them into tars, melanoids, and other nonbiological substances that thereafter are completely useless to life." (Ch.8)

"For Clarence Darrow, evolution justified a biological determinism that turned humans into puppets of their evolutionary past." (Ch.9)

"How does evolutionary ethics make sense of people who transcend their selfish genes? Genuine human goodness, which looks to the welfare of others even at one's own (and one's genes') expense, is an unresolvable problem for evolutionary ethics. Its proponents have only one way of dealing with goodness, namely, to explain it away. Mother Teresa is a prime target in this regard. If Mother Teresa's acts of goodness on behalf of the poor and sick can be explained away in evolutionary terms, then surely so can all acts of human goodness." (Ch.1)

"Gould admits that anything Dawkins really cares about regarding biological structures – their origin, function, complexity, adaptive significance – is the product of natural selection. Gould was as much a Darwinist as Dawkins." (Ch.3)

"Vestigial structures are entirely consistent with intelligent design, suggesting structures that were initially designed but then lost their function through accident or disuse. Nevertheless, vestigial structures also provide evidence for a limited form of evolution. From both a design-theoretic and an evolutionary perspective, a vestigial structure is one that started out functional but then lost its function. Yet, in the case of evolution, vestigiality explains only the loss of function and not its origination. Vestigiality at best documents a degenerative form of evolution in which preexisting functional structures change and lose their function." (Ch.5)

"When Eugenie Scott calls for a technician to stand over a monkey's shoulder and correct its mistakes, she commits the fallacy of begging the question or arguing in a circle. In other words, Scott presupposes the very thing she needs to establish as the conclusion of a sound scientific argument. Indeed, scientific rigor demands that we ask who in turn is standing over the technician's shoulder and instructing the technician what is and is not a mistake in the typing of Shakespeare. If the technician's assistance to the monkey is to mirror natural selection, then the technician needs to help the monkey without knowing or giving away the answer. And yet that's exactly what the technician is doing here." (Ch.7)

"Darwinists have traditionally hidden behind the complexities of biological systems to shelter their theory from critical scrutiny. Choose a biological system that is too complex, and one can't even begin to calculate the probabilities associated with its evolution. Consider the eye. A widely held myth in the biological community is that Darwin's theory has explained the evolution of the vertebrate eye. In fact, the theory hasn't done anything of the sort." (Ch.7)

added in edit:  I think we need a new thread just for this.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,13:21   

A total dumbass wrote

Quote
"Darwinists have traditionally hidden behind the complexities of biological systems to shelter their theory from critical scrutiny.


Hey you sciencey types here (you know who you are), I want to know how do you hide a theory from critical scrutiny.  Do you simply not tell anyone about the theory (like the IDC camp)?  Do you have secret labs where you discuss your theory and not tell anyone about your conversations?

Please tell me where and how you hide your theories, I swear I won't tell a soul!

Bonus question - how do you keep others from scrutinizing your theory, the one you keep hidden.  Please tell me your secret.  I want to know how to keep people from scrutinizing my own theories.  

Thanks

Chris!

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,14:14   

I work in the same building with a secret lab! But I can't tell you what they're working on.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Assassinator



Posts: 479
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,14:22   

I still find it very odd that they keep screaming out those obvious cliché things. It keeps going on and on and on and on. Irritating.

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,14:26   

Quote (BWE @ Dec. 07 2007,12:14)
I work in the same building with a secret lab! But I can't tell you what they're working on.

I coach kids' basketball less than a mile from the Biologic Secret Lab. I might have to go check it out.

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,14:36   

Better wear a disguise. They'll come looking for you.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,15:09   

Who says ID can't predict?  

It looks like Dr. Dr. gives a Big Shout Out to some  posters here in Chapter 9!

"... evolution justified a biological determinism that turned humans into (sock) puppets of their evolutionary past." (Ch.9) *

* edited and quote-mined to fit.

** I really like that edit key!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,15:14   

Oh noes! Gould was a Darwinist!

The horror! Darwinist paleontology!

... honestly, I just don't know why the fuck so many creationists think Gould's work supports their position. Gould seems to have been similarly completely confused by their enthusiasm for punctuated equilibria. Do they just like it because he comes off as rebellious, witty and anti-orthodoxy?

And as usual, Dembski's approach to information theory is retarded. The idea that you "can't gain information" is just a repackaging of the second law of thermodynamics, and suffers from the same stupid problems.

THERE IS INFORMATION EVERYWHERE. AND ENERGY, TOO. THEY'RE FREE FOR THE TAKING BY WHATEVER PROCESS IS CAPABLE OF EXPLOITING THEM. WE ARE NOT IN A VACUUM.

... ahem. Excuse me! I like how he's still flogging the eye, however.

Edited because I can.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2007,15:16   

Quote (argystokes @ Dec. 07 2007,14:26)
Quote (BWE @ Dec. 07 2007,12:14)
I work in the same building with a secret lab! But I can't tell you what they're working on.

I coach kids' basketball less than a mile from the Biologic Secret Lab. I might have to go check it out.

Ha!  If they have any kids playing in your league, they must really hate it when some one blocks a shot and the crowd cheers "Rejected!"

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2007,20:47   

Just thought I would mention my take on one chapter of The Design of Life
The Design of Life: Cleaning Evolution Out of the Augean Stables

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Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2007,21:18   

Yay!  Thanks Afarensis!

I just have one thing to say to all the AtBC posters.

One thing, cause you all will get the joke:

Go to a bookstore.
Find a copy of 'Design of Life'.
Look at pages 208-209.


I havent laughed that hard in a long time.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2007,21:28   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 12 2007,20:47)
Just thought I would mention my take on one chapter of The Design of Life
The Design of Life: Cleaning Evolution Out of the Augean Stables

Nice Post!  It loks like you are one of the first to get a look at Pandas,  Part Deux.  

NB:  Don't forget to wash your hands after handling it, and be thankful your not a Creo, or you'd have to pluck your eye out after reading it, so you wouldn't sin again by reading it again.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2007,10:57   

My review of one page in 'Design of Life'

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007....fe.html

  
hooligans



Posts: 114
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2007,11:17   

ERv,

Ouchh! Full on backbreaker

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2007,11:42   

Quote (hooligans @ Dec. 17 2007,11:17)
ERv,

Ouchh! Full on backbreaker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Z-lxAyCZI

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2007,12:45   

Quote (ERV @ Dec. 17 2007,10:57)
My review of one page in 'Design of Life'

http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007....fe.html

Ha!  Excellent!  I think that you should claim that your relentless fisking of Dr. Dr. Dembski led to his latest melt-down.  His latest claim that The Designer = The Christian God pretty much takes him out of any futher the designer is not god discussion.

I'm also thinking that Dembski just guaranteed that he will never get the opportunity to debate us from the witness stand.  

Do you think Dembski is working on the next sequal to Pandas, The Design Of Stupidity?

Edited for spelling and just for fun

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 17 2007,15:17   

Since Dipski believes irreducible complexity is the evidence of an intelligent designer, and he believes the intelligent designer is the "christian god", can we conclude he believes malaria is the christian god's gift to mankind?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2007,10:06   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 17 2007,15:17)
Since Dipski believes irreducible complexity is the evidence of an intelligent designer, and he believes the intelligent designer is the "christian god", can we conclude he believes malaria is the christian god's gift to mankind?

Yes, I am sure you are correct.  So if you are a True Christian™, you just have to grin and bear it and chant on: "Thank You Lord, may I have another?"

Scarry stuff.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2007,10:37   

Question - What scientific method did Dipski use to determine the intelligent designer was the christian god and some pagan god, or any other god?  How did he rule out all the others deities?

Was it the 'splanitory filter or?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
MrsPeng



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2007,12:16   

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 18 2007,10:06)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 17 2007,15:17)
Since Dipski believes irreducible complexity is the evidence of an intelligent designer, and he believes the intelligent designer is the "christian god", can we conclude he believes malaria is the christian god's gift to mankind?

Yes, I am sure you are correct.  So if you are a True Christian™, you just have to grin and bear it and chant on: "Thank You Lord, may I have another?"

Scarry stuff.

Oh, I know the answer to this one!
There wasn't any malaria until after "Adam's Fall." 'Twas SIN wot done it!
Can I join the death cult now?

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"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers." Abbie Hoffman

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 18 2007,13:56   

Quote (MrsPeng @ Dec. 18 2007,12:16)
Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 18 2007,10:06)
 
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 17 2007,15:17)
Since Dipski believes irreducible complexity is the evidence of an intelligent designer, and he believes the intelligent designer is the "christian god", can we conclude he believes malaria is the christian god's gift to mankind?

Yes, I am sure you are correct.  So if you are a True Christian™, you just have to grin and bear it and chant on: "Thank You Lord, may I have another?"

Scarry stuff.

Oh, I know the answer to this one!
There wasn't any malaria until after "Adam's Fall." 'Twas SIN wot done it!
Can I join the death cult now?

Welcome Mrs. Peng, and yes, there is plenty of room on the road to hell.  :)

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,21:58   

The Design of Life is a fabulous success!Send more money!!11!!11!one!!11!!
 
Quote
Please know, though, that the early success of the book does not mean we are without significant challenges in the weeks and months ahead. There will be intense opposition to our attempts to market the book widely. The Design of Life is a thousand times more threatening to the opposition than Pandas, the book they tried to censure. Success will come with a big price tag. The marketing and PR expenses required, if we set our sites on tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, or more, in sales, are likely to be quite large.


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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
MrsPeng



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 19 2007,23:18   

OK, I just read the drivel at the fte site. I've looked at some of the reviews at Amazon for this sciencey book. I've lurked here, and at Pharyngula and The Loom etc for over a year now. I've read Dr Forrest's (on whom I have a very very bad crush indeed) Trojan Horse, Dawkins' The Ancestor's Tale and Climbing Mt Improbable,, wossname's Endless Forms Most Beautiful, the other wossname's Why Intelligent Design Fails, Eugenie Scott's Creationism Vs Evolution,  every issue of Natural History for the last 18 months, plus as much creationist claptrap I can stomach at UD, and as far as I can tell, ID has contributed exactly NOTHING NEWER than Paley's Watchmaker argument. Nothing. Not even doodly squat. The best they can manage is a bunch of carping about things that haven't been figured out yet.

I've seen some of the most amazing Tard evar from lurking here, but it always just seems to boil down to the "design inference," or some obfuscated way of rephrasing it.

So when do you guys who do the actual work of figuring things out, you know, the actual science, get to tell the cdesign proponentists to have a big warm glass of shut the hell up? How many more times do they get to be completely wrong before they have to depart a lot and let the real scientists get back to work?

I read some of the excerpts available for The Design of Life and I found that I knew where to look on Talk Origins to refute the load of horsehockey Dr Dr D was spewing. His "arguments" are so bad that a guy like me, who only reads these things because the Tard Takedowns are so priceless, can remember where to look in the index of claims to refute the swill being offered as "Groundbreaking" in a "Brand New" book! Gah! Feh! Poot!

It's warmed over worm poop. When will it stop? Please, make it stop. I'm begging you.

Oh, and sorry about the Mrs Peng, for some reason I wrote Mrs when I mean Mr. I'm not a Mrs, although I play one on TV. No, not really. I'm a Mr, but I don't play a Mrs on TV. Although I would. I've got the legs for it, When they are shaved that is. Not that I shave em. much. er, OK I'm going back to lurking now.

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"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers." Abbie Hoffman

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,09:27   

"Mrs" Peng, or whatever you are.... You should get along quite well with Louis, who is currently unavailable, being on Holiday in the Sub Continent, India.  

Louis is the Brit with the riding crop and kepi, beating off the natives.  So to speak.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,10:53   

The design of life "give us more money" page quotes some of the Amazon reviews.
A review quoted by FTE says
               
Quote
In short, Dembski and Wells have written a comprehensive text of absolutely sparkling perspicacity. 'One long argument' of a quality that Darwin could only have dreamt has been given, and a bright new research paradigm has found its way into the sunlight. This book will be praised and it will be vilified, but most importantly it will be read because it is eminently worthy of being read — and the young minds who read it will have their eyes opened to a new and better and more accurate and vastly healthier scientific understanding of the world.  

Now the FTE names him as "B. L. FROM REDMOND, WA"

His Amazon profile notes that his name is in fact "Bruce Gordon".

And of course ten seconds later it's obvious Bruce is really Bruce Gordon, research director for Discovery's Center for Science & Culture who writes articles like

Intelligent Design Theory is NOT Creationism

I know that people have pointed out that the positive reviews are mostly, if not all written by comrades of Behe and Dembski, but I thought If I picked a name from the reviews they themselves quoted it would not lead back to the Disco institute.

Amazingly they then say on the FTE page after posting these "reviews"
               
Quote
Of course, not all of the reviews posted in the first month have been as exuberant as those above; some are venomous. We are receiving numerous requests for review copies from people we know intend to try to destroy it. (We do not intentionally send complimentary review copies to these people.)


Their intent is to deceive.

Amusingly "B. L. FROM REDMOND, WA" also reviewed "Shattered Tablets: Why We Ignore the Ten Commandments at Our Peril" where he says
   
Quote
The result is a powerful critique of secularization that strongly motivates Klinghoffer's prophetic call for a return to America's Judeo-Christian heritage. I am not at all optimistic that this call will be heeded, but the uncompromising clarity with which the need for it is explained and illustrated makes this book a very important one indeed

So, FTK, no return to America's Judeo-Christian heritage planned by the Discovery Institute at all then?

Snapshot of the page as of today


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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
MrsPeng



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,10:55   

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 20 2007,09:27)
"Mrs" Peng, or whatever you are.... You should get along quite well with Louis, who is currently unavailable, being on Holiday in the Sub Continent, India.  

Louis is the Brit with the riding crop and kepi, beating off the natives.  So to speak.

Well, I hope our friend Louis isn't beating off the small native  dogs in India and at least allows them to boldly leap where they may.

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"Sacred cows make the tastiest hamburgers." Abbie Hoffman

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,11:06   

In addition to my comment above, I'd like to point out the irony of a organisation called Foundation for Thought and Ethics thinking this is an ethical way to drum up positive publicity for a book.
The FTE mission is
Quote
The purpose of FTE is to restore the freedom to know to young people, especially in matters of worldview, morality, and conscience, and to return the right of informed consent to families in the education of their children.

Morality eh? Hmm.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,12:36   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Dec. 20 2007,11:06)
The FTE mission is
   
Quote
The purpose of FTE is to restore the freedom to know to young people, especially in matters of worldview, morality, and conscience, and to return the right of informed consent to families in the education of their children.

Yes, it is difficult to match the high moral values in that sentence with others from the same page.

   
Quote
We are receiving numerous requests for review copies from people we know intend to try to destroy it. (We do not intentionally send complimentary review copies to these people.)

   
Quote
A book of this quality, eliciting such powerful reviews immediately upon publication, deserves the strongest possible backing. I hope you'll continue to pray and also write the largest check you can, and send it in with the information requested on the enclosed card.

It isn't too hard to get positive and "powerful" reviews when you only give review copies to DI fellows.

Teach the controversy, guys. Send those books to legitimate reviewers. If your arguments are that "powerful", they should be able to stand a little heat.

Oh, I forgot. This isn't about data and arguments. It's about gaming the Amazon review system and getting money from rubes. Ethics, indeed.

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,17:40   

I just signed up at Amazon to buy a used copy of The Design Of Life.  I offered $1.00 US dollar... did I overpay for the book?  Please discuss.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,21:17   

Yes! :D

I did an Amazon review...

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,21:24   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 20 2007,22:17)
Yes! :D

I did an Amazon review...

C'mon.  I'm half-lit and lazy.  Linky please, so I don't have to wade through a ton of tard.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,21:29   

Never mind.

ETA:

Quote (afarensis @ December 20, 2007)

As I say, I have not finished the book, but based on the four chapters I have read, their unfamiliarity with, and flat out distortions of, those scientific fields that I am familiar with indicate that this book is little more than a sophisticated, gussied up version of creationism. Or, more accurately, the book is a Jack Chick tract without the pictures.


Shazam.

Edited by Lou FCD on Dec. 20 2007,22:33

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,21:55   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 20 2007,22:24)
C'mon.  I'm half-lit and lazy.

People don't know that when you become AtBC moderator, you're given a magical amulet.

(It's a fifth of vodka duck-taped to a universal remote)

:p

   
someotherguy



Posts: 398
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,22:01   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 20 2007,21:17)
Yes! :D

I did an Amazon review...

What's more, it doesn't suck!  

Not that I expected it to, by any means. :D

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Evolander in training

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,22:02   

afarensis's blog is quite good.

   
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2007,23:18   

Quote (someotherguy @ Dec. 20 2007,22:01)
Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 20 2007,21:17)
Yes! :D

I did an Amazon review...

What's more, it doesn't suck!  

Not that I expected it to, by any means. :D

I may have to use that in my signature  ;)

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,06:42   

Given Dr. Dr. D's past embarrassments with fake names and book reviews on Amazon, Gil's suggestion seems a bit risky.  
Quote
Amazon needs to implement a policy of requiring all reviewers to use their real names and provide proof of having personally purchased the book, otherwise, Amazon book reviews will lose all credibility in the future.

And DaveTard chimes in as well  
Quote
I wrote a review on Amazon which should appear within the next 48 hours. It’ll be easy to spot. It’s the ONLY review that is neither 1 star or 5 star. I’ll leave y’all in suspense about what I wrote. You can read it when it gets posted there.


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,06:54   

s/past/continuing/;

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,07:06   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 21 2007,07:54)
s/past/continuing/;

You may need to provide an exegesis of that.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,07:10   

In Perl,

$_ = "Given Dr. Dr. D's past embarrassments";
s/past/continuing/;
print $_;

Output: "Given Dr. Dr. D's continuing embarrassments"

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,07:31   

Thanks.  I never got into Perl, but I may find that particular snark rather useful.  It's a bit lot like the strikethrough technique.

ETA:

Only geekier.

:p

Edited by Lou FCD on Dec. 21 2007,08:31

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,08:35   

More unwitting embarrassments from the Dembskiists. On UD, Larry Fromanotherplanet comments  
Quote
Because I thought that the book “Monkey Girl” was well written and well researched, my Amazon.com review of the book gave it four stars even though I disagreed with the book’s conclusions.

But did Larry read that book?  No! Last February, on FtKs blog, Larry admitted he only read the epilogue and the last chapter, and his review on Amazon reiterates that.

With friends like that, Dembski needs no more enemies.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,08:54   

In the discussions of the book, there's one that stands out
No middle ground here

Including this little titbit:
Quote
 Mona Albano says:
Yes, it's sort of the reaction that one would get for a book called, "I was abudcted by little green men" when the commenters were the Abduction Survivors Group on the one hand and the Psychiatrists' Association on the other.


--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,09:08   

DaveScot's "review" is up
   
Quote
Except for mine there are no reviews that are not 5 star or 1 star. Everyone evidently thinks the book is pure genius or utter trash. How unlikely. Also note there is a veritable flood of 1 star reviews that were posted on 20 December, 2007. What's up with that? Did George W. Bush declare December 20th as a national "Read Dembski and Review It On Amazon Day" or something? Again, a blatant indication of Amazon ratings being gamed.

I'll say this much about the book itself - any book with such a high sales rank at Amazon (currently around 2,000) that causes this much polarization in the reviews must be worth reading just to see for yourself what's in it that's causing so much controversy.


Odd how he fails to mention their own attempt to "game the system" by asking readers to vote up accurate reviews (nudge nudge).
So
   
Quote
Except for mine there are no reviews that are not 5 star or 1 star.

Round of applause for DS! There's a good boy, good boy!
   
Quote
Everyone evidently thinks the book is pure genius or utter trash.

No, the vast majority of people who have expressed an opinion have said utter trash. The vast majority of the people who expressed a positive opinion are  shills, or are otherwise affiliated with the publisher or the group behind the book.
   
Quote
How unlikely.

Is that "unlikely" in the CSI requires 500 information bits, lifetime of the universe yada yada blah sense? Or "unlikely" as in the "we tried it and it backfired, so we're going to pretend that never happened and concentrate on PZ instead"?
   
Quote
Also note there is a veritable flood of 1 star reviews that were posted on 20 December, 2007.

Why don't you just come out and say it you coward. People reading that review will either know what you are alluding to or not. If not, how will they know what you are talking about DS? That's your target audience right there! Missing a trick DS.
Also, DS, note the veritable flood of 5 star reviews before it was possible that many people even had the book. Odd how all who had it early liked it so very much.
   
Quote
What's up with that?

Perhaps another "just so story", like about how ID explains whale evolution in detail.
   
Quote
Did George W. Bush declare December 20th as a national "Read Dembski and Review It On Amazon Day" or something?

Perhaps he did. Or perhaps there was a reaction to your original attempt to game the system and unluckily for you it appears ID proponents are outnumbered many thousands to one.  
1,385 of 1,569 people found this negative review useful.
So next time think about how badly you are outnumbered DS. Think about why that is.
   
Quote
Again, a blatant indication of Amazon ratings being gamed.

No, it's a blatant indication of your dishonestly. If the ratings had been going the way you wanted originally, as requested by O'Leary
   
Quote
 O'Leary: But if you think that the information service that Bill Dembski has provided you here for years - out of his own resources - is worthwhile, go to Amazon and vote up the reviews that sound like the person has actually READ the book. Vote the others down.
Then would you be still complaining like the 10 year old you really are? I doubt it. It would have been a victory of the ordinary person over the darwinist scientists in their ivory towers. Except it didn't quite work out like that eh DS?
Lastly
 
Quote
I'll say this much about the book itself - any book with such a high sales rank at Amazon (currently around 2,000) that causes this much polarization in the reviews must be worth reading just to see for yourself what's in it that's causing so much controversy.

So we finally get to the money shot. Literally. Buy my mates book or he won't let me bully people round on his blog any more. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book. Buy my book.

  
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,09:29   

Brian Clevinger's books had about five times as many sales, going by his sales rank. I say this because he's only an internet (semi?)-celebrity anyway, and because he's the only other person whose Amazon sales rank I know of.

2000 is not THAT good a sales rank ... you might manage a second edition if you stay there a good long while, maybe.

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,11:04   

John Kwok responds directly to DS' "review"
Quote
As for your assertion that this is a book of "pure genius", then I have a bridge spanning Brooklyn and Manhattan that I wish to sell to you. I submit that that bridge is substantially more a work of "pure genius" than this worthless example of mendacious intellectual pornography.

Read the rest here

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,11:06   

I have NOT read the book, but I did manage to get a friend of mine snuck into one of Dembski's IDC bible classes at Southwester Bible Skool.

He snuck in a camera and managed to get these pictures for me:





--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,12:56   

Praise Jesus!  The snakes bit Dembski, yet they still live!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 21 2007,12:58   

At FTK's church they do that with pirahnas.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,00:48   

Holy crap! No wonder DaveScot gave DOL such a good review, here is footnote 45 in Chapter Five:


Quote
45 How is it possible for different DNA sequences that map onto the same amino acid sequence to induce
different proteins? Computer engineer David Springer conjectures that "ribosomes process codons at different
rates when the codons differ only by a redundant nucleotide replacement." He offers the following
analogy for the effect this has on protein folding: "Think of the ribosome like a caulk gun producing a
bead consisting of amino acid polymers that fold as they come out of the gun. If the rate at which the
bead comes out changes, then the shape it folds into changes as well." He also considers the possibility
that "RNA molecules dependent on specific gene sequences alter the way the protein is processed after
the ribosome finishes producing it." See David Springer, "The Sound of the Neutral Theory Exploding,"
Uncommon Descent (December 23, 2006): published online at http://www.uncommondescent.com
/archives/1901 (last accessed January 11, 2007).
:O

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,06:24   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 23 2007,00:48)
Holy crap! No wonder DaveScot gave DOL such a good review, here is footnote 45 in Chapter Five:


 
Quote
45 How is it possible for different DNA sequences that map onto the same amino acid sequence to induce
different proteins? Computer engineer David Springer conjectures that "ribosomes process codons at different
rates when the codons differ only by a redundant nucleotide replacement." He offers the following
analogy for the effect this has on protein folding: "Think of the ribosome like a caulk gun producing a
bead consisting of amino acid polymers that fold as they come out of the gun. If the rate at which the
bead comes out changes, then the shape it folds into changes as well." He also considers the possibility
that "RNA molecules dependent on specific gene sequences alter the way the protein is processed after
the ribosome finishes producing it." See David Springer, "The Sound of the Neutral Theory Exploding,"
Uncommon Descent (December 23, 2006): published online at http://www.uncommondescent.com
/archives/1901 (last accessed January 11, 2007).
:O

In other words, this book is as "extensively researched" as Explore Evolution, where toxicologist and DI fellow Paul Chien is quoted as an expert on some fossils which apparently reside in his basement...

Hopefully DT can expound on his caulk gun model of protein synthesis in a peer-reviewed paper soon. Maybe the reason he is being so quiet at UD is because he is hard at work in the super-duper double-secret DI molecular biology labs, with BA77 as his research assistant...

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,07:40   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 21 2007,12:06)

You and your materialistic preconceptions. As you can plainly see, Dembski's serpents are using intelligence to wind themselves into a pair of double helices. That just doesn't happen.

On a good day he gets to demonstrate the irreducible complexity evident in the production of venom. Many parts are involved, the removal of any one of which would render the system non-functional: venom gland, compressor muscle, primary venom duct, accessory gland, secondary venom duct, and fang (with venom canal), not to mention the exquisite, lightning fast motor coordination required for a strike and the deadly bioactive specificity of the venom.



You could've seen the whole God-ordained sequence: a pair of puncture marks, redness and swelling, severe pain, nausea and vomiting, labored breathing, disturbed vision, increased salivation and sweating, and ultimately the cessation of respiration. The Design of Life AND Death! Cool!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,08:04   

Over on the UD thread,
Quote (dhogaza @ Dec. 23 2007,04:42)
If you haven't read this review at Amazon, you should.  It sums up the ID vs. science "controversy" beautifully.


It's worth posting in its entirety:

Quote (Dr. Eigenvalue @ December 15, 2007)
another roadside attraction,

The Mystery Spot is a tourist attraction located in Santa Cruz, California. It's considered Mysterious because it seems not to comply with the laws of gravity: One can stand upright on the wall or roll a ball uphill. The proprietors claim that the anti-gravity effects are due to an alien spaceship that is buried beneath the Spot.

The phenomena observed at the Mystery Spot are so completely unexpected that one has to consider the possibility that the Theory of Gravitation is incorrect. Indeed there is a great deal that is still not understood about gravitation, and fans of the Spot are quick to point out that scientists generally refuse to consider the influence of underground spaceships when formulating their theories. In response to this criticism, Newtonists point to the fact that The Theory of Gravitation has been tested successfully thousands of times, and that it routinely makes predictions that are verified.

The controversy between the Newtonists and the Underground Spaceship Theorists continues to simmer. The spaceship people have calculated that, even by generous estimates, the probability that all of the Mystery Spot phenomena could occur in 68 years (the Spot opened for business in 1939) is ludicrously small. So small that one could wait trillions of years and still not expect to observe a ball rolling up a hill without the influence of an Underground Spaceship. They suggest that Gravitation works well within certain limits beyond which buried spaceships need to be taken into account.

The Newtonists clearly feel threatened. Seeing their Theory under attack, they have been openly dismissive of the Underground Spaceship Theorists. Because they control the scientific journals and the schools, they have thus far been successful in preventing Spaceship Theory from entering the scientific mainstream. Recently a group of Newtonists actually travelled to the Mystery Spot, made some measurements, and determined that there actually was no gravitational anomaly! They claim that the area is simply positioned on an incline, which leads to a variety of optical illusions that render the Spaceship Theorists' calculations meaningless. Supporters of the Spaceship Theory have pointed out that the existence of the incline does not rule out the possibility that a spaceship is buried beneath the Spot.

Meanwhile the Mystery Spot continues to do brisk business. Neither the owners nor their customers are particularly interested in The Theory of Gravitation. For most people, underground spaceships are much more fun to think about, and the fact of the matter is that the ball really, really does look like it's rolling uphill.


It is indeed beautiful.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,09:20   

RB and if you don't have a victim, you can't have a deadly bite.  Absolutely Eerie-doucheable.

I call Design Inference!!!

Can you smell the science?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Art



Posts: 69
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,10:03   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 23 2007,00:48)
Holy crap! No wonder DaveScot gave DOL such a good review, here is footnote 45 in Chapter Five:


 
Quote
45 How is it possible for different DNA sequences that map onto the same amino acid sequence to induce
different proteins? Computer engineer David Springer conjectures that "ribosomes process codons at different
rates when the codons differ only by a redundant nucleotide replacement." He offers the following
analogy for the effect this has on protein folding: "Think of the ribosome like a caulk gun producing a
bead consisting of amino acid polymers that fold as they come out of the gun. If the rate at which the
bead comes out changes, then the shape it folds into changes as well." He also considers the possibility
that "RNA molecules dependent on specific gene sequences alter the way the protein is processed after
the ribosome finishes producing it." See David Springer, "The Sound of the Neutral Theory Exploding,"
Uncommon Descent (December 23, 2006): published online at http://www.uncommondescent.com
/archives/1901 (last accessed January 11, 2007).
:O

Wouldn't it be neat if DaveScot and Telic Thinker joy got together and whipped up a quantum caulk theory of everything?

   
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,10:42   

Quote (Art @ Dec. 23 2007,10:03)
Wouldn't it be neat if DaveScot and Telic Thinker joy got together and whipped up a quantum caulk theory of everything?

Can it even be considered caulk or even caulk-like when it's so small it's been dubbed "quantum"?

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Timothy McDougald



Posts: 1030
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,11:10   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Dec. 23 2007,06:24)
Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 23 2007,00:48)
Holy crap! No wonder DaveScot gave DOL such a good review, here is footnote 45 in Chapter Five:


   
Quote
45 How is it possible for different DNA sequences that map onto the same amino acid sequence to induce
different proteins? Computer engineer David Springer conjectures that "ribosomes process codons at different
rates when the codons differ only by a redundant nucleotide replacement." He offers the following
analogy for the effect this has on protein folding: "Think of the ribosome like a caulk gun producing a
bead consisting of amino acid polymers that fold as they come out of the gun. If the rate at which the
bead comes out changes, then the shape it folds into changes as well." He also considers the possibility
that "RNA molecules dependent on specific gene sequences alter the way the protein is processed after
the ribosome finishes producing it." See David Springer, "The Sound of the Neutral Theory Exploding,"
Uncommon Descent (December 23, 2006): published online at http://www.uncommondescent.com
/archives/1901 (last accessed January 11, 2007).
:O

In other words, this book is as "extensively researched" as Explore Evolution, where toxicologist and DI fellow Paul Chien is quoted as an expert on some fossils which apparently reside in his basement...

Hopefully DT can expound on his caulk gun model of protein synthesis in a peer-reviewed paper soon. Maybe the reason he is being so quiet at UD is because he is hard at work in the super-duper double-secret DI molecular biology labs, with BA77 as his research assistant...

I'm surprised Dembski didn't cite the DaveScot thread with the infamous haploid error...

--------------
Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 23 2007,13:06   

Quote (afarensis @ Dec. 23 2007,12:10)
I'm surprised Dembski didn't cite the DaveScot thread with the infamous haploid error...

...or the "Praying Marines Design Inference".

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 24 2007,08:19   

This was up this moring on Amazon:

The most helpful favorable review

2nd Best Book Ever, December 23, 2007
By  The Spinozanator

I must reluctantly admit, I was teetering on the brink of being seduced by Satan's evil theory of evolution. Then I read Dembski's and Wells's inspired book, which ranks right up there with astrology in exposing science and its ridiculous reliance on evidence and the outdated fuddy duddy scientific method; instead of the Bible and other privileged sources.

None of my friends down at the Church of the Divine Sepulchre of Spiritual Holiness believe in that stupid ape story either. Among the high spots in this fine book was the sensitive support given in the bibliography to Santa Claus, Mother Goose, and the Stork. Those 100% of Nobel prize winners and 99% of other scientists who believe evolution's hogwash are most certainly going straight to Hell. Top Notch!


Ok....which one of you is this????  This was great!!!

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 24 2007,08:42   

Quote (Steverino @ Dec. 24 2007,08:19)
This was up this moring on Amazon:

The most helpful favorable review

2nd Best Book Ever, December 23, 2007
By  The Spinozanator

I must reluctantly admit, I was teetering on the brink of being seduced by Satan's evil theory of evolution. Then I read Dembski's and Wells's inspired book, which ranks right up there with astrology in exposing science and its ridiculous reliance on evidence and the outdated fuddy duddy scientific method; instead of the Bible and other privileged sources.

None of my friends down at the Church of the Divine Sepulchre of Spiritual Holiness believe in that stupid ape story either. Among the high spots in this fine book was the sensitive support given in the bibliography to Santa Claus, Mother Goose, and the Stork. Those 100% of Nobel prize winners and 99% of other scientists who believe evolution's hogwash are most certainly going straight to Hell. Top Notch!


Ok....which one of you is this????  This was great!!!


Ha!  I was just going to post this exact same post, and you beat me to it!  Either this proves that Great Minds Think Alike, or it's another Freakin' Christmas Miracle and all credulous readers should send their life savings to us.  

I'm in killing time in the office, then OUT!, so the best to all, and to all a good night.

What a great review@!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 24 2007,10:15   

Quote (MrsPeng @ Dec. 19 2007,23:18)
So when do you guys who do the actual work of figuring things out, you know, the actual science, get to tell the cdesign proponentists to have a big warm glass of shut the hell up? How many more times do they get to be completely wrong before they have to depart a lot and let the real scientists get back to work?

At the current rate of progress, I estimate another 200 years.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 24 2007,18:26   

Quote (MrsPeng @ Dec. 20 2007,00:18)
So when do you guys who do the actual work of figuring things out, you know, the actual science, get to tell the cdesign proponentists to have a big warm glass of shut the hell up? How many more times do they get to be completely wrong before they have to depart a lot and let the real scientists get back to work?

Real scientists never stopped working. ID consists of a few morons echoing each other on websites, selling each other POS books, and making noise at the occasional school board meeting.  They don't do any science or interfere much with scientists who do. They sit around and complain about the powers that be, and dream of the revolution, but the revolution never comes.

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 26 2007,14:55   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 24 2007,18:26)
Quote (MrsPeng @ Dec. 20 2007,00:18)
So when do you guys who do the actual work of figuring things out, you know, the actual science, get to tell the cdesign proponentists to have a big warm glass of shut the hell up? How many more times do they get to be completely wrong before they have to depart a lot and let the real scientists get back to work?

Real scientists never stopped working. ID consists of a few morons echoing each other on websites, selling each other POS books, making noise at the occasional school board meeting, and making farty videos.  They don't do any science or interfere much with scientists who do. They sit around and complain about the powers that be, and dream of the revolution, but the revolution never comes.

Post fixed.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2008,06:23   

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #10,261

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2008,06:18   

Comments have been open for a while now
http://www.thedesignoflife.net/blog/
and there are 0 comments!

Nice way to go O'Leary!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2008,06:55   

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #15,446 in Books


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2008,07:04   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 05 2008,06:55)
Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #15,446 in Books

I wonder what that represents in terms of sales? A couple a week?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2008,13:02   

I think I understand why there aren't any comments over at The Design of Life blog. I am looking at the blog FAQ.  I found this of interest (emphasis added).
Quote
Q3. How can I add comments to a post?

A3. To add comments to a post, you must be registered on the site. If you are already a member, please log in to your account. Otherwise, click here to register. Click on the ‘Add Comment’ link for the post. You will be prompted to log in to the site, if you are not already logged in.
Note: By default, on registration, a user becomes a One Time Commenter. In this role, a user may comment ONE TIME on a post that already has AT LEAST one comment. In other words, a ‘One Time Commenter’ does not have permission to start a thread.

So, basically, they have set up their comment policy so that no one can comment unless DO'L puts in the first comment on her own post.  How can we expect these guys to reliably detect design when they are completely incapable of designing anything themselves?

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Henry J



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2008,13:16   

Mebbe they designed it that way on porpoise?  :p

  
J-Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2008,13:19   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Jan. 11 2008,13:02)
I think I understand why there aren't any comments over at The Design of Life blog. I am looking at the blog FAQ.  I found this of interest (emphasis added).
 
Quote
Q3. How can I add comments to a post?

A3. To add comments to a post, you must be registered on the site. If you are already a member, please log in to your account. Otherwise, click here to register. Click on the ‘Add Comment’ link for the post. You will be prompted to log in to the site, if you are not already logged in.
Note: By default, on registration, a user becomes a One Time Commenter. In this role, a user may comment ONE TIME on a post that already has AT LEAST one comment. In other words, a ‘One Time Commenter’ does not have permission to start a thread.

So, basically, they have set up their comment policy so that no one can comment unless DO'L puts in the first comment on her own post.  How can we expect these guys to reliably detect design when they are completely incapable of designing anything themselves?

Ha!  That's beautiful!  I remember reading that, shaking my head cuz it didn't make sense, but just put it all on Denyse's usual inimitable writing "style" .  I  feel so ashamed that I didn't give it the pathetic level of detail that it deserved.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,03:09   

Henrietta Lacks lives again!
http://www.thedesignoflife.net/blog....lt.aspx
She's commenting on the design of life blog.
That means that anybody can comment on the threads that have comments already (what a dumb system)
Quote
I notice that you printed a taxonomy of cow-like kinds in a nested heirarchy, which implies that you accept the darwinist dogma of common descent. I'm not sure if this was intended to communicate what you think or merely an illustration of what some scientists thing.

Some scientists thing? :) :p

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
J. O'Donnell



Posts: 98
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,04:05   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 24 2007,18:26)
They don't do any science or interfere much with scientists who do.

I dunno, I think some of those farty noise videos might have just managed to get to me!

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My blog: Animacules

   
Henry J



Posts: 4565
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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,10:29   

Quote
I notice that you printed a taxonomy of cow-like kinds in a nested heirarchy,


Where's the beef? :p

Quote
I dunno, I think some of those farty noise videos might have just managed to get to me!


America needs the gas!

:O

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,11:21   

Has anyone else noticed that no one seems to be paying attention to this newer version of Pandas and People?  No reviews anywhere except in the IDiot world.

Could it be no one gives a shit about dembski anymore?  This must be having a drastic effect on his persecution complex.  How can he drive book sales unless he can play the persecution card?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Annyday



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,11:22   

Quote
I think you need to be clear about what point you are trying to make; Is it that darwinists predict that species can never hybridize (if so you should show references) or that the fact that species can hybridize means that the darwinists have an incorrect notion of what constitutes a species.


heheheheh. Creationists using references. That's a good one.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
J-Dog



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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,11:27   

Quote (Annyday @ Jan. 30 2008,11:22)
Quote
I think you need to be clear about what point you are trying to make; Is it that darwinists predict that species can never hybridize (if so you should show references) or that the fact that species can hybridize means that the darwinists have an incorrect notion of what constitutes a species.


heheheheh. Creationists using references. That's a good one.

Hey!  They use references all the time!  Like, from Genesis, Leviticus, etc...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,12:07   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Jan. 30 2008,12:21)
Has anyone else noticed that no one seems to be paying attention to this newer version of Pandas and People?  No reviews anywhere except in the IDiot world.

Could it be no one gives a shit about dembski anymore?  This must be having a drastic effect on his persecution complex.  How can he drive book sales unless he can play the persecution card?

the design of life:

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #13,774 in Books


Nobody goes to Young Cosmos, nobody goes to ISCID Brainstorms, nobody picks up the phone at ISCID, the Discovery Institute's page of peer reviewed publications lists nothing - not even fake papers - from 2007, PCID hasn't been published since 2005...

That old song on He-Haw said "If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all..." Something like that applies to ID, with 'attention' subbed for 'luck'.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 30 2008,12:25   

Where, Oh where, are you tonight
Why did you leave me here all alone
I've searched the world over and thought I found true love
But you found another and [insert Dembski skills here] I was gone.

by the way Sternbergius it's HEEHAW

kinda like YEEHAW

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



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(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2008,05:50   

O'Dreary gets defensive about the number of hits on the DOL site.
Quote
Total 13,343
Average Per Day 221
Average Visit Length 2:55
Last Hour 35
Today 762
This Week 1,550

Wow.

She also reminds us how well the book is doing
Quote
#1 in Books > Science > Biological Sciences > Biology > Developmental Biology
#1 in Books > Professional & Technical > Professional Science > Biological Sciences > Biology > Developmental Biology
#3 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


2:55 average site visit duration? I think a decimal place has been moved...

And Creationism? Somebody re-read the memo to O'Dreary.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2008,06:30   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 20 2008,06:50)
O'Dreary gets defensive about the number of hits on the DOL site.
 
Quote
Total 13,343
Average Per Day 221
Average Visit Length 2:55
Last Hour 35
Today 762
This Week 1,550

Wow.

She also reminds us how well the book is doing
 
Quote
#1 in Books > Science > Biological Sciences > Biology > Developmental Biology
#1 in Books > Professional & Technical > Professional Science > Biological Sciences > Biology > Developmental Biology
#3 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


2:55 average site visit duration? I think a decimal place has been moved...

And Creationism? Somebody re-read the memo to O'Dreary.

The D'oL:

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #12,574 in Books


The Age of American Unreason,Susan Jacoby

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #10 in Books(See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#1 in Books > History > United States
#1 in Books > Nonfiction > Social Sciences > Communication > Media And Society
#1 in Books > Entertainment > Pop Culture > Popular Culture


Publisher's Weekly Review of Ms. Jacoby's book addresses the relevance here:

Quote
...Jacoby passionately argues that the nation's current cult of unreason has deadly and destructive consequences (the war in Iraq, for one) and traces the seeds of current anti-intellectualism (and its partner in crime, antirationalism) back to post-WWII society. Unafraid of pointing fingers, she singles out mass media and the resurgence of fundamentalist religion as the primary vectors of anti-intellectualism, while also having harsh words for pseudoscientists.



Your Inner Fish: A Journey into the 3.5-Billion-Year History of the Human Body, by Neil Shubin

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #66 in Books(See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#1 in Books > Science > Evolution
#1 in Books > Science > Biological Sciences > Paleontology
#1 in Books > Professional & Technical > Professional Science > Evolution


The God Delusion, by Richard Dawkins

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #136 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#1 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Spirituality > Atheism
#2 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Philosophy


Letter to a Christian Nation (Vintage) (Paperback),by Sam Harris (a reprint, no less)

Quote
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #767 in Books (See Bestsellers in Books)

Popular in these categories: (What's this?)
#1 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Spirituality > Agnosticism
#3 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Religious Studies > Sociology
#4 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Religious Studies > Church & State


On the upside for D'oL:

Quote
#2 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


It's climbed a place in the Creationism Intelligent Design market.

ETA: Hey D'oL, maybe D'oL would sell better if you put little Jack Chick cartoons inside.

If you put the "PYGMIES + DWARVES" one in there, I might even buy it.

Edited by Lou FCD on Feb. 20 2008,07:42

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Mr_Christopher



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(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2008,09:33   

Nice work Lou.  Since all of science seems to be ignoring the latest Pandas and People - Demsbki/Wells love child it's good to know the creationists are still paying attention to them.

I bet Dembski cries at night because no one is reviewing his latest book.  He needs negative reviews from the legit science world so he can drive more sales by portraying himself as a victim of darwinism and "big science".

I love it so!

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,08:36   

DaveScot          
Quote
I reviewed the reviews and gave a neutral number of stars so that my review would stand out. Evidently it worked the way I wanted it to.

O'Leary        
Quote
However, a distribution where the vast majority of suddenly appearing reviews are either one star or five stars suggests a campaign in progress.

Where that appears to be the case, I would agree with Mohrhoff in ignoring all reviews that fall in those distributions because only a few will be normal reviews.

Trying to figure out which few are normal reviews is not a worthwhile use of one’s time.

My emphasis.
Seems to me O'Leary, like, wants to ignore all reviews at either end of the spectrum and also the ones that fall in the middle? Or, something, like?

O'Leary continues
       
Quote
That, by the way, is the reason that the campaign against The Design of Life failed. The campaigners assumed that the whole world agrees with them and with their campaign. That doesn’t happen to be true. And it shouldn’t be.
There needs to be a serious discussion about the limits of Darwinism.

So the "campaign" against DOL failed? What campaign? And as far as a discussion about the limits of "Darwinism" goes, er, well, like, I thought Behe just published a book and we're in fact talking about a book here also? The "design of life" remember O'Leary? Or perhaps does O'Leary mean the sort of discussion that scientists have between themselves, you could say between peers? Something like that O'Leary? And in any case with O'Leary having 20 or 30 separate websites and blogs you'd think that any discussion about the limits of "Darwinism" would be happening right now, there's plenty of venues! It's not like, like, there is a lack of opportunity!

O'Leary and FTK have a lot in common I think. Just look at the "added value content" that O'Leary brings to science news:

Link
Notice the fantastic punctuation. I mean, I'm quite bad at it myself but...
Interesting that O'Leary fails to inform us how this new "mind reading" feat fits into her conception of the mind and brain. It's a pity that O'Leary leaves us guessing! Or not, like. Or perhaps "But you won;’t know what the person thinks of it is her considered refutation?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,13:56   

[quote=oldmanintheskydidntdoit,Mar. 11 2008,08:36]O'Leary continues
       
Quote
That, by the way, is the reason that the campaign against The Design of Life failed. The ...

AH HA!  I have decoded Denyse!  

Under her NEW contract, she gets paid by the number of times she can use the word "campaign" in a single paragraph!

My evidence - from your link:  

"That, by the way, is the reason that the campaign against The Design of Life failed. The campaigners assumed that the whole world agrees with them and with their campaign. That doesn’t happen to be true. And it shouldn’t be."

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,14:45   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 11 2008,11:56)
[quote=oldmanintheskydidntdoit,Mar. 11 2008,08:36]O'Leary continues
         
Quote
That, by the way, is the reason that the campaign against The Design of Life failed. The ...

AH HA!  I have decoded Denyse!  

Under her NEW contract, she gets paid by the number of times she can use the word "campaign" in a single paragraph!

My evidence - from your link:  

"That, by the way, is the reason that the campaign against The Design of Life failed. The campaigners assumed that the whole world agrees with them and with their campaign. That doesn’t happen to be true. And it shouldn’t be."

Paid by whom?  The International Bad Prose Conspiracy?

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 12 2008,02:11   

Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 11 2008,12:45)

Paid by whom?  The International Bad Prose Conspiracy?

Otherwise known as the Illiterati conspiracy :p

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 12 2008,21:52   

A prose by any other name...

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,10:48   

I heard a rumor that someone else bought this book not long ago.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,11:23   

Uh-oh.

 
Quote
#4 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


Sales seem to be slipping.

And what's #1 in Creationism, you ask?

 
Quote
#1 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


Science, Evolution, and Creationism, by the National Academy of Sciences.

Shermer's Why Darwin Matters: The Case Against Intelligent Design sits at number 2, and A Call to Sanity (with which I am not familiar) by Jason Scott Yeldell is at number 3.

D'oL D'oh!  That has to sting.

ETA:  On the upside for D'oL and DO'L, they're beating that other con-artist Sylvia Browne, who checks in at number 5.

Edited by Lou FCD on Mar. 17 2008,12:27

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:01   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,11:23)
Uh-oh.

       
Quote
#4 in Books > Religion & Spirituality > Christianity > Theology > Creationism


Sales seem to be slipping.

Not according to the publisher.

Here is the breakdown, if you don't want to read the whole newsletter:

- Sales are great! We've sold 1200 books!  
- Our run of 10,000 books will run out in less than 2 years!
- We're one of the top developmental biology books on Amazon!
- Shhhh. Be vewy, vewy quiet. We don't want to call people's attention to the fact that it is the op-tay ook-bay in eationism-Cray.
- Readers love the book!
- The Darwinists hate the book and are trying to destroy it!
- We need your help to defeat the Darwinists!  Okay, we don't actually need your help, we really just need your money. Send it to us!

One quote:
   
Quote
Bill Dembski spoke on intelligent design to roughly 200 people at a venue just off Times Square in New York City following a private screening of the movie, "EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed.". The book sold well at the event, which was sponsored by King's College.

I even found a picture from the event:


--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:07   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 17 2008,12:01)
I even found a picture from the event:

Looks like Dembski's really let himself go...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:12   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 17 2008,13:07)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 17 2008,12:01)
I even found a picture from the event:

Looks like Dembski's really let himself go...

At least he ditched the sweater.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
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Leftfield



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:15   

More from the publisher's newsletter:
   
Quote
Working with specialists in Canada and India, our web site for the book features a blog that now averages 221 visitors a day, and climbing - not bad for a young blog!


Maybe that explains DO'L's prose stylings: her exquisite work is all edited by "specialists" in India before being loosed on the world! :p

--------------
Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:43   

Quote (Leftfield @ Mar. 17 2008,13:15)
More from the publisher's newsletter:
     
Quote
Working with specialists in Canada and India, our web site for the book features a blog that now averages 221 visitors a day, and climbing - not bad for a young blog!


Maybe that explains DO'L's prose stylings: her exquisite work is all edited by "specialists" in India before being loosed on the world! :p

JanieBelle gets that many hits a day just from Google searches for "literotica".

Various permutations of "Emma Watson Naked" also usually generate that many.

She could go two weeks without posting a thing and get more hits than the D'oL blog.

Perhaps that's not a fair comparison, though.


How 'bout this instead?

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:46   

Quote (Leftfield @ Mar. 17 2008,12:15)
More from the publisher's newsletter:
   
Quote
Working with specialists in Canada and India, our web site for the book features a blog that now averages 221 visitors a day, and climbing - not bad for a young blog!


Maybe that explains DO'L's prose stylings: her exquisite work is all edited by "specialists" in India before being loosed on the world! :p

Holy Denyse's Diction !

I followed your link, and right after they beg for money because they need it to do God's Work, they are still selling Of Pandas & People... For $29.95!!!!!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,12:48   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,12:43)
Quote (Leftfield @ Mar. 17 2008,13:15)
More from the publisher's newsletter:
     
Quote
Working with specialists in Canada and India, our web site for the book features a blog that now averages 221 visitors a day, and climbing - not bad for a young blog!


Maybe that explains DO'L's prose stylings: her exquisite work is all edited by "specialists" in India before being loosed on the world! :p

JanieBelle gets that many hits a day just from Google searches for "literotica".

Various permutations of "Emma Watson Naked" also usually generate that many.

She could go two weeks without posting a thing and get more hits than the D'oL blog.

Perhaps that's not a fair comparison, though.


How 'bout this instead?

Another Holy Denyse's Diction... You are kicking the Morphodyke's Ugly Buttocks 5,285 to 8!!!!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 17 2008,13:18   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,12:43)
How 'bout this instead?

Or this?

Dave for Teh Win!!!onetyone!!!!

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,09:06   

O'Leary comes out and admits that DOL is a creationist propaganda tool!
Quote
Actually, Darwinism's utter failures fuel creationism, as The Design of Life handily details. But that's a point for a less frenzied moment than the present one.

LINK
I guess a bit of honestly was overdue from that lot...

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 25 2008,18:44   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 17 2008,13:18)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,12:43)
How 'bout this instead?

Or this?

Dave for Teh Win!!!onetyone!!!!

WOW!  14,000 to 8???!!!????  Dave over Denyse???

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 17 2008,03:07   

The DOL blog is still going strong with such ID related news as

Cambrian food webs similar to webs observed today

Genome mapping: Platypus genome a patchwork, like the animal itself

Fossil fish find reveals that live birth is ancient, not modern

Brain: Octopus develops advanced brain, but what does the brain do?


and finally

Science and media: Can DNA Analysis Uncover a Mummy’s Ancestry?

I actually read most of that last post and I simply can't see what the relevance is to ID. Of course I understand this is O'Leary and "relevance" means something different to her then everybody else but this one snippet struck me as very relevant
     
Quote
But, other scientists warn, that these results must be replicated by independent research teams in separate laboratories before the results can be confirmed. Peer review is also essential to giving the team’s work credibility. Otherwise, this work will remain more celebrated in the media than in the scientific community.


It's nice to see even DoL getting it right occasionally. So I look forwards to DoL repeating this over at UD.

Tard

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 17 2008,14:18   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 17 2008,19:18)
 
Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 17 2008,12:43)
How 'bout this instead?

Or this?

Dave for Teh Win!!!onetyone!!!!

This made me damn near spill my wine

And no, it's not a euphemism.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 17 2008,16:25   

I don't understand why DoL only gets 8 hits rather than the ~60k on a google search. What's the filter?

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,12:35   

The Design Of Life Update - Because it is all about Teh Science::

Long, long ago, The Designer [ s] created [/s] front-loaded a God-Loving puppet that signed up to be on the Foundation of Thought and Ethics mailing list.  And since my puppet and I thought that you might all enjoy their most recent lies and truth-stretching, I am including their latest combination Plea For Money and Research Lie To The Rubes Plan - Design Of Life.

So take a break from all that Church Burnin' and Teh War On Christmas and Christians, and settle down now, on a long winter's day for The December Issue From FTE!


Dear Friend of the Foundation,

In spite of the widespread economic downturn, a wonderful opportunity to continue expanding our outreach has come to FTE. Please give me just 15 minutes to consider together first, what great things are going to happen in 2009, and then, this very strategic opportunity.

Open Doors
FTE's books are 1) generating interest and winning acclaim from more and more influential and strategic people, and 2) with the support of new technologies, they are entering many new markets and reaching more readers, including numbers of students. Professional groups that we are working with now or that are currently reviewing our books with that purpose in mind include The Heritage Foundation, The Intercollegiate Studies Institute, The Discovery Institute, Amazon.com, The C.S. Lewis Society, The Conference on Faith and History, Faculty Commons, Google Book Search, and others.

But the biggest doorway is that opened by scientific work that affirms intelligent design. Quietly and largely unnoticed, we have entered a new era in this century–a major era. On the 10th anniversary of his best-selling book, Darwin's Black Box, Prof. Michael Behe acknowledged the heated rhetoric wars that had arisen between Darwinism and intelligent design. Then he added something profound: he said he knows that in the end, science, not politics will settle this dispute. Now, we are not predicting a settlement in just a year or two, but still you can see today how this is going to come about.
An Example? Some Amazing Things Happened in 2008
Historical, even revolutionary things . . . in science. In a section of The Design of Life titled "How Many Genes Must Change?" the authors discuss these questions: What is the minimal number of mutations required to form a new structure in a species? and How likely is it that that many mutations could occur in a single organism and actually produce the new structure? (The authors were considering earlier work by British biologist E. J. Ambrose, who said a minimum of five mutations would be needed.) With due caution and generous concessions to Darwinism's creative capacity, Dembski and Wells demonstrate that the probability of some favorable new structure arising in a population is nil. But the Darwinists yawned. This is dismissed as speculation. There remained a need for clear research to determine if evolution could deliver the estimated five mutations needed for an organism to produce the new structure.

That was then, and this is now. In fact, experimental research has been underway throughout most of this decade, long enough for us to get a very satisfying glimpse of where this is going. Dare I say it? Earth-shattering breakthroughs are on their way. Future science textbooks will one day open new chapters recounting this landmark progress. A prime example is the research that has been conducted since 2005 by Ralph Seelke, Prof. of Biology at the Univ. of Wisconsin - Superior. Dr. Seelke's research is looking for an answer from the much studied tiny organism, Escherichia coli. Specifically, he is researching the question, when just two mutations are needed to produce a new, functioning structure – one that would give an organism survival advantage – can E. coli do that? So far, his answer has been a very solid "NO!"

His research makes Dr. Seelke an ideally qualified scientist to carefully review the way DoL's authors handled the Ambrose "minimal gene mutations" question. Here, then, are a few of Prof. Seelke's comments: "I got a chance to read Dembski's discussion of Ambrose's work, and it's a good analysis of the problems with forming a new structure."
I can't say that we actually know what's involved in forming a new structure, but five [genes] would be a minimum estimate. Ambrose's discussion also assumes that you have five genes that are already close–very close–to being what you need for that structure. He then gives very generous probabilities for a useful change to occur. However, the results are again a dismally low probability.

The normal case is that, if you inactivate a gene in these organisms, there's nothing in the 4.6 million bases of the E. coli genome . . .that will substitute for that inactivated gene. That's certainly been the case in my studies. For over 7,000 generations, and hundreds of billions of cells, my E. coli have sought in vain for a protein that will substitute for the one that I inactivated. It simply doesn't happen.
Much more research should and will follow. But we've crossed a continental divide, folks. The biochemical research open to this question is well underway, and so far, Darwinism has fallen flat on its face on the laboratory floor.

In the latest advance in the continuing stream of technologies brought to the task of marketing DoL, FTE has become a Google Book Search Partner, meaning anyone anywhere on the worldwide web can go online and, when searching on a phrase anywhere in the book, DoL will come up in the listings, with a picture of the book and a link to our web site where it can be ordered.

Despite so many encouragements, FTE has a very serious financial situation. We must raise $100,000. In addition to the $50,000 we need to give all our books strong backing in their various markets as we enter the new year, we need to pay at least $35,000 of debt, and, after that, as much back salary as possible.

Multiplication: FTE's Strategic Opportunity! As we said in our last letter, a group of FTE's faithful partners have come forward and are offering all our other partners a 1:1 match of whatever you contribute to FTE between now and January 15! We are extremely grateful to these friends, and with them, appeal to you now to give to the work of FTE for the exciting year ahead. The total of the matching funds is $35,000. So every dollar of the first $35,000 to come in will be matched. That's $70,000 of the $100,000 we need.

Please prayerfully consider what you can do to help. We are at a fork in the road, and we must not let this wonderful opportunity slip by!

As our way of saying thank you for contributions of $50.00 or more, we are happy to provide a copy of Dembski and Wells' How to Be An Intellectually Fulfilled Atheist–or Not (endorsed by the producers of the documentary EXPELLED).

Sincerely,

Jon Buell
President

P.S. We realize that most people will want their contribution to count for and be receipted in 2008. However, there may be some who prefer to date their check January, 2009 and have it deposited in 2009. We can do either, and will carry out your exact wishes.


I love the Sciencey line about "prayerfully consider" sending all the money you can.  Nice touch Buell!

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,12:45   

Quote
I can't say that we actually know what's involved in forming a new structure, but five [genes] would be a minimum estimate.
:p

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,14:01   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 29 2008,12:45)
Quote
I can't say that we actually know what's involved in forming a new structure, but five [genes] would be a minimum estimate.
:p

Yeah.... well, I guess we'll all just be on the edge of our seats waiting for the many ID Scientists finish all their lab experiments.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,14:06   

Seelke
Quote
just two mutations are needed to produce a new, functioning structure


and Behe thought how many were required for the creation of chloroquinone resistance? So why are they pushing this "five mutations"position? Bueller? Anyone?

Seelke can now educate the rest of the ID community that evolution does move towards a particular target (recreating the protein he inactivated), but towards any improvement available. No gradient = stasis.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,14:08   

does not move

Dang.

i can haz edibuddon?

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,14:30   

Quote
Seelke can now educate the rest of the ID community that evolution does not move towards a particular target (recreating the protein he inactivated), but towards any improvement available. No gradient = stasis.


That does seem to be the point of understanding toward which ID cannot evolve. ;)

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Art



Posts: 69
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,14:48   

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 29 2008,12:35)
The Design Of Life Update - Because it is all about Teh Science::

....

His research makes Dr. Seelke an ideally qualified scientist to carefully review the way DoL's authors handled the Ambrose "minimal gene mutations" question. Here, then, are a few of Prof. Seelke's comments: "I got a chance to read Dembski's discussion of Ambrose's work, and it's a good analysis of the problems with forming a new structure."

Hmmm...  that wouldn't be the same Dembski who, in NFL, implied that females are evolutionary dead-ends, would it?

Dembski would almost certainly consider  the transition in plants from annual to perennial to be irrelevant as well.

   
Gunthernacus



Posts: 235
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,15:43   

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 29 2008,13:35)
The Design Of Life Update - Because it is all about Teh Science:

...

That was then, and this is now. In fact, experimental research has been underway throughout most of this decade, long enough for us to get a very satisfying glimpse of where this is going. Dare I say it? Earth-shattering breakthroughs are on their way. Future science textbooks will one day open new chapters recounting this landmark progress.

Dare I say it?  WaterlooooOooOooooOoos...on their way...one day...

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Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,15:52   

Quote (Gunthernacus @ Dec. 29 2008,15:43)
Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 29 2008,13:35)
The Design Of Life Update - Because it is all about Teh Science:

...

That was then, and this is now. In fact, experimental research has been underway throughout most of this decade, long enough for us to get a very satisfying glimpse of where this is going. Dare I say it? Earth-shattering breakthroughs are on their way. Future science textbooks will one day open new chapters recounting this landmark progress.

Dare I say it?  WaterlooooOooOooooOoos...on their way...one day...

Well, you have to at least give them credit for making A Testable ID Prediction - Earth-shattering breakthroughs are on their way. Way to go out on a limb sport!   I give it a 100% on the vagueness scale.  

At least Dembski gave a time-frame of 10 years (I think it's down to 8 now) before ID supplants Darwin.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2008,20:35   

Quote (tards @ short,bus)

Then he added something profound: he said he knows that in the end, science, not politics will settle this dispute.

so, it's not settled... but they totally now which way it's going to come out!!!

  
Marion Delgado



Posts: 89
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2009,19:18   

Until JAD gets the credit he's due, I won't believe this "teach both sides" nonsense.

Why do you think they kept time cameras off the market? No one really wants the truth.

  
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