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  Topic: Schiavo lawyer gets involved in Florida debate< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Jason Spaceman



Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,13:06   

Quote
By RON MATUS, Times Staff Writer
Published January 15, 2008

Can science be like a religion?

In the case of Florida's proposed new science standards, yes, says the lawyer who represented Terri Schiavo's parents and siblings.

Pinellas lawyer David C. Gibbs III wrote in a recent legal memo that by singling out Darwin's theory of evolution as the sole pillar of modern biology, the proposed standards leave no room for other philosophical perspectives and cross the line between science and faith.

Gibbs also argues the proposed standards could face a legal challenge for violating the constitutional separation of church and state.

"Making this gigantic jump moves the evolutionary hypothesis from the realm of science into a philosophical faith-based belief system," Gibbs writes in the five-page memo, which he sent to the state Board of Education last month. "It has fallen into the same trap of which science has accused religion. It posits its entire interpretive rationale on something which is unobservable and untested."

The science-as-religion claim isn't a new criticism of Darwin's theory, which the vast majority of scientists consider to be sound and backed by evidence. But could it become a new legal argument to put the issue back before the courts?

Becky Steele, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida, called Gibbs' claim "cockamamy."

"He claims that teaching science, based on well-accepted theories backed by factual evidence, is somehow promoting a particular religion in public school," she said in an e-mail. "Imagine them arguing that the Establishment Clause would be violated by teaching a calculus class that only expresses the 'worldview' of mathematics without any sense of the divine."


Read it here.

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,13:12   

This is beautiful.  Please god (or space alien in a cheap tuxedo) let another court case manifest itself.  

It would make my day to see the ID creationists give depositions and take the stand again.

Please oh please oh please mr sky pixie, make it so!

bonus prayer: please dear loving sparkly unicorn have Behe or Dembski be expert witnesses.  if Dembski balks maybe you could arrange for his expert witness fees to be so astronomical he could not say no.

Thy will be done!  amenz

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,13:43   

Ha! Yes, put me down for some of that too!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,13:57   

Gibbs apparently has never heard the name, "Peloza".

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,14:44   

The reference desk has your book on hold, Mr. Gibbs. ;)

*Rubs hands together*

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,15:37   

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 15 2008,14:44)
The reference desk has your book on hold, Mr. Gibbs. ;)

*Rubs hands together*

You're my favorite Librarian.

XoXo

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,17:10   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 15 2008,14:37)
Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 15 2008,14:44)
The reference desk has your book on hold, Mr. Gibbs. ;)

*Rubs hands together*

You're my favorite Librarian.

XoXo

Heh, heh.


--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,18:10   

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 15 2008,17:10)
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 15 2008,14:37)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 15 2008,14:44)
The reference desk has your book on hold, Mr. Gibbs. ;)

*Rubs hands together*

You're my favorite Librarian.

XoXo

Heh, heh.

NICE PICTURE! - ARE YOU CHANNELLING FTK????

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,19:33   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 15 2008,17:10)
NICE PICTURE! - ARE YOU CHANNELLING FTK??

"Channelling" is so 1980s. Can you handle the truth?
Quote
Gibbs was unavailable for comment, and his firm referred questions to another lawyer, Barbara Weller, and to a curriculum specialist, Francis C. Grubbs.

About that "curriculum specialist." Link.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,21:56   

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 15 2008,19:33)
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 15 2008,17:10)
NICE PICTURE! - ARE YOU CHANNELLING FTK??

"Channelling" is so 1980s. Can you handle the truth?
 
Quote
Gibbs was unavailable for comment, and his firm referred questions to another lawyer, Barbara Weller, and to a curriculum specialist, Francis C. Grubbs.

About that "curriculum specialist." Link.


And My Favorite Librarian links me to Grubs and Gibs!

Tardalicious, yet somehow totally unappetizing.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,22:36   

that letter made me want to see this go to court more than ever.

jesus what a bunch of equivocating and FtK 'interpretationalizing' that is.  

it is pretty sick to see these anti-reason bozoes lip service 'in the interest of science education' and to say if Florida caves in to the Poof-ers that they 'may be poised to be a national leader in educating new scientists'.

Florida should stick to growing student athletes and lemons.  That's what they are good at it.  And hanging those chads.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,22:42   

I was born and grew up in Florida. I'd prefer to see Florida expand a bit toward making good science education more generally obtainable.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,22:50   

20 years in N. Florida. Ditto.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:00   

well excuuuuuuuse me.

growing up in western north carolina has given me a very different view of Floridiots (we called them).

Wes do you still drive realllllllllllllllllllly slow and not pull over and let people by?  Most Florons move FROM up north to florida, not the other way around.

Sternberger, i know what kind of company you keep.  say no more, say no more.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:05   

I've driven in Boston, and I'm still among the living.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:32   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 15 2008,22:50)
20 years in N. Florida. Ditto.

PLEASE, FOLKS, NOT ANOTHER GENERATION OF STERNBERGER STORYS.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:57   

If I ever get hauled into court on a paternity matter, I'm going to adopt the ID 'logic'.

"Your honor, the genetic similarity of that baby to me does not indicate common descent, merely common design. "

ID logic will work just fine...assuming the judge is actively smoking crack during the proceedings.

   
EoRaptor013



Posts: 45
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:57   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 16 2008,00:05)
I've driven in Boston, and I'm still among the living.

There can be no greater demonstration of driving skill!

WRT to ideas        
Quote
...based on well-accepted theories backed by factual evidence...
I want to mention a History Channel program I saw recently. (Yeah, yeah, I know, it's the History Channel. Worse, it was an episode of History's Mysteries, but even a comic book can provide food for thought!) The episode discussed a folklorist's efforts to understand what significance, if any, the Hellenes of the Classical period ascribed to the Pliocene and Miocene fossils abundant on the Greek mainland and many of the Agean islands. She discovered several lesser-known historians of the Classical, and later Roman, period describing the giant bones of the heros, demi-gods, and monsters of Greek mythology. One ancient account relates the story of how Spartans, following counsel from the Oracle at Delphi, searched the Agean seeking the bones of Orestes, son of Agamemnon. Eventually, they found several bones, including a huge femur -- nearly 3 feet long -- that simply had to be Orestes's. These were sent to Sparta and Sparta became the most powerful City-State in the Hellene world.

More interesting, the folklorist reviewed notebooks from several archaeological excavations of ancient Greek temples. Even as late as 1978, archaeologists presumed that the ancients would not recognize the organic origin of fossil bones. Thus, when mammoth, wooly rhino, and other Pliocene/Miocene bones were found at these excavations, they were noted on the anomolies (sp?) page, and the bones were discarded!

The point of all my blabbering is that the Greeks, and later the Romans, actually had evidence for their so-called myths! Of course, their interpretation of the evidence was wrong as all we God-fearing Christians know, but still in the context of the times, they had the goods. I have wondered, since this show, whether there was more than the nomadic nature of the early Jewish tribes that underlay the prohibition against worshiping "idols."

$0.02

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 15 2008,23:58   

Quote

PLEASE, FOLKS, NOT ANOTHER GENERATION OF STERNBERGER STORYS.
If I ever get hauled into court on a paternity matter, I'm going to adopt the ID 'logic'.

"Your honor, the genetic similarity of that baby to me does not indicate common descent, merely common design. "

ID logic will work just fine...assuming the judge is actively smoking crack during the proceedings.

   
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