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  Topic: Robert O'Brien Debates Bob Price, re: the historicity of Jesus< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2007,22:00   

I debated Bob Price re: the historicity of Jesus on Reginald Finley's debate hour. It should be available as a podcast soon.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2007,23:29   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ June 29 2007,22:00)
I debated Bob Price re: the historicity of Jesus on Reginald Finley's debate hour. It should be available as a podcast soon.

What was your position, Robert?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 30 2007,03:07   

A debate *hour*?

I will have to give that a listen. Let us know when that is up.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,13:34   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 29 2007,23:29)
Quote (Robert O'Brien @ June 29 2007,22:00)
I debated Bob Price re: the historicity of Jesus on Reginald Finley's debate hour. It should be available as a podcast soon.

What was your position, Robert?

I argued for the historicity of Jesus.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,13:36   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 30 2007,03:07)
A debate *hour*?

I will have to give that a listen. Let us know when that is up.

It still isn't up yet, and I don't know why. Perhaps Reggie does not think our discussion is of general interest, although I don't think the content is much different than Bob Price's "Bible Geek" segments.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,14:17   

Jesus as a man, or son of god?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,17:42   

Re "Jesus as a man, or son of god? "

I've wondered for a long time what exactly the phrase "son of god" means in that context.

I'm unable to come up with a coherent definition that fits the way the phrase gets used by those who take it seriously.

Henry

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,07:43   

I think that there is problems with both sides of the argument. There is simply not enough information to tell either way. Nothing reliable from the first century. Bits and pieces from the second century (Most of this is people such as Eusebius writing in the fourth century quoting lost documents from the second century)

Not having heard Robert's actual argument, I am sure that it is no different to any fundie argument (I just hope it is better then the standard circular arguments of how the gospel was true because it was written by honorable men. We know they were honorable because the gospel tells us they were*). However, the mythical Jesus argument is still based around starting assumptions around certain documents being more authentic than others.

Michael

* Another favorite of mine is that the gospels are correct about the resurrection because the gospel said it was witnessed by 500 people.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,07:57   

I'm not sure what difference a historical Jesus would make.  After all, we know with absolute certainty that there was a historical Mohammed, and that doesn't make people convert to Islam in droves.

On the other hand, we haven't a clue whether there was actually a historical Lao Tzu, and that doesn't seem to have bothered the Taoists any.


Alas, with the fundies, it ain't the message that is important, only the idol-worship of the messenger.  (shrug)

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,10:33   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 08 2007,07:57)
I'm not sure what difference a historical Jesus would make.  After all, we know with absolute certainty that there was a historical Mohammed, and that doesn't make people convert to Islam in droves.

Yes, and we even have PHOTOS of L. Ron Hubbard, and that's not seen as an argument in favor of Scientology.

But anyway, it's the other way around. If people can make a convincing argument that Jesus didn't exist, then it rather undercuts the follow-Jesus-or-go-to-hell notion of Christianity. 'Proving' that Jesus was real -- probably impossible in any non-circular way -- does nothing to prove the resurrection or whether he was actually the son of God.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,23:02   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 07 2007,14:17)
Jesus as a man, or son of god?

I argued that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person. Arguing for Christianity will have to wait for another debate hour. :)

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,23:09   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 08 2007,23:02)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 07 2007,14:17)
Jesus as a man, or son of god?

I argued that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person. Arguing for Christianity will have to wait for another debate hour. :)

Can I ask you a favour, Robert?

PM me if interested.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,23:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 08 2007,23:09)
Can I ask you a favour, Robert?

PM me if interested.

PM sent

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 08 2007,23:33   

Quote (Robert O'Brien @ July 08 2007,23:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 08 2007,23:09)
Can I ask you a favour, Robert?

PM me if interested.

PM sent

Thanks.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
creeky belly



Posts: 205
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 11 2007,04:43   

Podcast is up.

Lots of talk about Shlowmo Penis.  Robert didn't really have a chance to discuss it on the show, but does it really matter to Christian faith whether Christ is a true historical figure or not?

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 11 2007,07:05   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 09 2007,00:57)
I'm not sure what difference a historical Jesus would make.  After all, we know with absolute certainty that there was a historical Mohammed, and that doesn't make people convert to Islam in droves.

On the other hand, we haven't a clue whether there was actually a historical Lao Tzu, and that doesn't seem to have bothered the Taoists any.


Alas, with the fundies, it ain't the message that is important, only the idol-worship of the messenger.  (shrug)

Mohammed was not necessarily historical either.

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 11 2007,17:42   

Quote (creeky belly @ July 11 2007,04:43)
Podcast is up.

Thanks for the heads up!

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 11 2007,17:45   

(title changed to something informative)

   
Mr_Christopher



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(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,16:51   

I asked Jesus for an X-Box last Christmas yet I did not get one.  This leads me to doubt his existance.  

I need more evidence before I can ever muster up any faith in this long haired, dress wearin' hippie of a deity.

Chris

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,17:52   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 12 2007,16:51)
I asked Jesus for an X-Box last Christmas yet I did not get one.  This leads me to doubt his existance.

I've never forgiven God for that bicycle I didn't get when I was nine.

The bastard.  I prayed and everything.     ':angry:'

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,19:42   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ July 12 2007,17:52)
 
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ July 12 2007,16:51)
I asked Jesus for an X-Box last Christmas yet I did not get one.  This leads me to doubt his existance.

I've never forgiven God for that bicycle I didn't get when I was nine.

The bastard.  I prayed and everything.     ':angry:'

Silly boy. Don't you know that prayer always works, unless you have a bad attitude?

How do you know if your attitude is bad? Well, your prayers going unanswered is a pretty clear sign.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,20:26   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 12 2007,19:42)
Silly boy. Don't you know that prayer always works, unless you have a bad attitude?

How do you know if your attitude is bad? Well, your prayers going unanswered is a pretty clear sign.

Well, the fact that after I didn't get my bike, I flipped God the bird, probably indicated my bad attitude, too.

After all, he already knew I'd do that . . . . . .

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,20:38   

http://infidelguy.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=234090#

Quote
Biblical Scholar, Dr. Robert Price and Autodidact Robert O'Brien discuss whether or not history adequately supports that Jesus existed.



NooooooooOOOOOooooooooo!

Emphasis mine.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,20:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 12 2007,20:38)
http://infidelguy.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=234090#

   
Quote
Biblical Scholar, Dr. Robert Price and Autodidact Robert O'Brien discuss whether or not history adequately supports that Jesus existed.



NooooooooOOOOOooooooooo!

Emphasis mine.

Um...

It's not a good sign when one self-identifies as an auto-didact.  ???

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 14 2007,01:03   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 13 2007,13:52)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 12 2007,20:38)
http://infidelguy.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=234090#

   
Quote
Biblical Scholar, Dr. Robert Price and Autodidact Robert O'Brien discuss whether or not history adequately supports that Jesus existed.



NooooooooOOOOOooooooooo!

Emphasis mine.

Um...

It's not a good sign when one self-identifies as an auto-didact.  ???

True in this case as Robert was self taught in the subject but Dave Springer use has changed the meaning to selfdidact=ignorant super tard.

I listened to the podcast while on my walk. Robert you were not bad for a first try especially against someone as good as Bob Price. It would have been better if you had a lot more experience at debating.

The arguments you made were interesting. I'm an atheist but agnostic on whether Jesus actually existed, we just don't have enough information.

Michael

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 14 2007,10:48   

Quote

True in this case as Robert was self taught in the subject but Dave Springer use has changed the meaning to selfdidact=ignorant super tard.


True. In this and so many other ways, Dave Scot has lowered the bar for all of us.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 14 2007,12:10   

I would be interested in listening sometime but the links don't work for me.

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 14 2007,14:22   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 12 2007,20:38)
http://infidelguy.libsyn.com/index.php?post_id=234090#

 
Quote
Biblical Scholar, Dr. Robert Price and Autodidact Robert O'Brien discuss whether or not history adequately supports that Jesus existed.



NooooooooOOOOOooooooooo!

Emphasis mine.

What, are you saying that watching the Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, and the Passion is not sufficient preparation?  :D

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 14 2007,21:41   

I'm not sure what the problem is, Stephen. You might check to see what program mp3 files are associated with on your computer.

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Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
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