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  Topic: Retraining Our Imaginations, Bill Hearts Angels< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,16:55   

Okay, I'm sure several of you have already seen this at Pharyngula, and J-Dog's already mentioned it here, but it's just too good not to discuss here.

The following is an intro Bill D. has written for a book arguing for the existence of angels.

Quote

Peter Williams' The Case for Angels is about…the theological rift between a Christian intelligentsia that increasingly regards angels only as figurative or literary devices, and the great mass of Christians who thankfully still regard them as real (a fact confirmed by popular polls, as Williams notes in this book). This rift was brought home to me at a conference I helped organize at Baylor University some years back. The conference was entitled 'The Nature of Nature' and focused on whether nature is self-contained or points beyond itself. The activity of angels in the world would clearly constitute on way nature points beyond itself.

Why is it important to know about angels? Why is it important to know about rocks and plants and animals? It's important because all of these are aspects of reality that impinge on us. The problem with the secular intelligentsia is that they deny those aspects of reality that are inconvenient to their world-picture. And since the intelligentsia are by definition intelligent (though rarely wise), they are able to rationalize away what they find inconvenient. This is what Bishop Sheen was getting at with the previous quote when he referred to the intelligentsia rationalizing evil, and this what Williams is so successful at unmasking in the intelligentsia's rejection of angels.

There exists an invisible world that is more real and weighty than our secular imaginations can fathom. I commend this book as a way of retraining our imaginations about that reality.


This is an amazing snapshot of where Bill's brain really is these days. There are so many things one could say about this, but maybe I'll just open the floor.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,17:04   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Oct. 04 2007,14:55)
This is an amazing snapshot of where Bill's brain really is these days.

Not "these days"  - the book was published in 2002, according to PZ.  Pre-Waterloo*, pre-farty-noises, pre-stalking-of-Baylor-regents.  The good doctor doctor is in even closer orbit around Planet Loon "these days".




* No wonder he didn't testify in the Dover trial.  Can you imagine this coming up in cross-examination?

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,17:18   

Even though his personal effort has led to countless unnecessary volunteer hours by normal people at local school board hearings, and even though it irks me when people try to lie to kids, stuff like this kind of makes you feel sorry for the guy.

Sheesh.

I think I can hear the voices in his head.

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Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,17:47   

If'n he wants to "retrain" people's imaginations, wouldn't the way to do that be show people the relevant verifiable evidence of whatever it is? Or am I missing the point?

Henry

  
Richardthughes



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,19:21   

Angels have been seen in the middle of peer reviewed texts.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,19:56   

Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 04 2007,17:47)
If'n he wants to "retrain" people's imaginations, wouldn't the way to do that be show people the relevant verifiable evidence of whatever it is? Or am I missing the point?

Henry

You are totally missing the point.

But in this case that's a good thing.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
theloneliestmonk



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,21:42   

I'm confused. Is this ID, Christian Science or Christian apolgetics?

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,22:38   

Re "Angels have been seen in the middle of peer reviewed texts."

Or on various TV shows... :p

Henry

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2007,14:53   

Shouldn't someone  at UD to ask him how he feels about UFOs, accupuncture and Big Foot?  Doesn't ID predict them?  

This would make it even more fun if he is ever called to testify.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,11:16   

Invisible worlds populated with winged humanoids, intelligent designers, hidden messages in the bible (the bible codes), where do Bill Dimski's mental illnesses  end?

Interesting to note that angels are close relatives of fairies.  One has insect wings and the other has bird wings.  The both seem to share a common ancestor.  I wonder why the bible is not keen on people with insect wings and seems to prefer bird winged humanoids instead.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,12:01   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 31 2007,11:16)
Invisible worlds populated with winged humanoids, intelligent designers, hidden messages in the bible (the bible codes), where do Bill Dimski's mental illnesses  end?

Interesting to note that angels are close relatives of fairies.  One has insect wings and the other has bird wings.  The both seem to share a common ancestor.  I wonder why the bible is not keen on people with insect wings and seems to prefer bird winged humanoids instead.

What's ironic is if you were to profess a belief in leprechauns, fairies, or nats, Bill would laugh at you as being deluded. Refuse to believe in angels, however, and Bill accuses you of not being 'wise' and 'denying those aspects of reality that are inconvenient to your world-picture'.

I'm sure he has a good reason for this, tho.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,12:08   

Let's not forget that the bible code is the only effort I've seen to try and make a positive case for ID.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,12:10   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Oct. 31 2007,17:01)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 31 2007,11:16)
Invisible worlds populated with winged humanoids, intelligent designers, hidden messages in the bible (the bible codes), where do Bill Dimski's mental illnesses  end?

Interesting to note that angels are close relatives of fairies.  One has insect wings and the other has bird wings.  The both seem to share a common ancestor.  I wonder why the bible is not keen on people with insect wings and seems to prefer bird winged humanoids instead.

What's ironic is if you were to profess a belief in leprechauns, fairies, or nats, Bill would laugh at you as being deluded. Refuse to believe in angels, however, and Bill accuses you of not being 'wise' and 'denying those aspects of reality that are inconvenient to your world-picture'.

I'm sure he has a good reason for this, tho.

Yup indeedy. He has a prior commitment to a specific religious set of claims that he is desperately attempting to validate with some scintilla of scientific credibility because he is, at some subconscious level, well aware of the paucity of evidence for those claims on which he bases his worldview. Combine this with a demonstrable arrogance, a lack of humility, a desire to see people think as he does as he proselytises for his faith, and you have Dembski.

And Behe

And Wells

And Johnson

And Meyer

And Morris

And Gish

....

Louis

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Bye.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,12:34   

Arden, are you certain Bill doesn't believe in leprechauns?  Leprechauns seem like something Bill would advocate.  

Didn't Behe once suggest the intelligent designer(s) could be leprechauns?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,12:42   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 31 2007,12:34)
Arden, are you certain Bill doesn't believe in leprechauns?  Leprechauns seem like something Bill would advocate.  

Didn't Behe once suggest the intelligent designer(s) could be leprechauns?

Looking at Behe in his plaid shirt on Amazon, I think you mis-heard - he said he believes in lumberjacks.  And I believe that he then stated that he "wants to put on women's clothing, just like his dear papa".

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 31 2007,13:40   

Quote (J-Dog @ Oct. 31 2007,12:42)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 31 2007,12:34)
Arden, are you certain Bill doesn't believe in leprechauns?  Leprechauns seem like something Bill would advocate.  

Didn't Behe once suggest the intelligent designer(s) could be leprechauns?

Looking at Behe in his plaid shirt on Amazon, I think you mis-heard - he said he believes in lumberjacks.  And I believe that he then stated that he "wants to put on women's clothing, just like his dear papa".

Anything would be an improvement on that sweater.

:O



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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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