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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Pianka?  What about Hawking!

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Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,09:44    Remember the IDiots who got all up in arms about Pianka's lecture on global disasters? I wonder if they will now label Stephen Hawking the new "doctor doom"... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages....id=1770   Quote "Life on Earth is at the ever-increasing risk of being wiped out by a disaster, such as sudden global warming, nuclear war, a genetically engineered virus or other dangers we have not yet thought of." I'm genuinely curious to see what their PR machine makes out of it. (In a "I'm curious about how parasites affect brain function" kinda way) -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,09:56    OH NOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111 By mentioning a possible disaster he aids and encourages it! Call Homeland Security! Call Homeland Securityyyyyyyyyyy! I will. And then I'll call you 'gone'. -dt

Chris Hyland Posts: 705 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,09:57    See that, Hawking is advocating the mass extincion of humans using a genetically engineered virus. Im curious how much he thinks this colonising or Mars is going to cost.

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,10:00    Quote "Life on Earth is at the ever-increasing risk of being wiped out by a disaster, such as sudden global warming, nuclear war, a genetically engineered virus or other dangers we have not yet thought of." Maybe a nuclear war (though it would certainly kill us before many lifes forms), and probably a global warming (just before the sun dies) could exterminate every single organism on this planet, but certainly not a virus.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,10:14    Nobody has brought up the obvious... Hawking WANTS the IDiots to make a big deal out of what he said. Hence the overgeneralized statement noted by Jean. I think he wants to rip them a new one. We'll see. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,10:39    Stephen Hawking wants to get the attention of IDers? Is he used to dealing with those twits?

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,10:44    Quote Is he used to dealing with those twits? well, he did guest-star on the Simpsons... -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,11:44    ... and he is Steve #300. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,11:47    So, what's your opinion on Hawking's goal here, Wes? -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 14 2006,15:55    It seems pretty straightforward to me. Hawking wants people to think of more than short-term expediency and prepare for some of the really bad consequences that are all possible now given the way nations interact here, how dense our populations are, how thoroughly we have perturbed the environment, and other changes that we don't yet have knowledge of, but which may announce themselves forcefully at any time. I don't see this as aimed at ID advocates. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 15 2006,05:26    Quote (Ichthyic @ June 14 2006,15:44) Quote Is he used to dealing with those twits? well, he did guest-star on the Simpsons... Twice! He's now the proud owner of a Little Caesar's Pizza franchise. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 15 2006,05:40    I think Prof Hawking was just stating the inevitable. Eventually we either colonise other star systems or become extinct sooner rather than later.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,06:00    I've been trying to spin this into comedy for a few days now but I just can't seem to do it. Maybe the issue is too close to me to see it objectively. People who think that environmental concerns are not important or that they are being spun by scientists with a political agenda- all the religion hoppers claiming that we are an evil conspiracy to destroy religion for example- are ignorant of facts. Our fisheries the world accross are not being harvested sustainably. The words "fisheries collapse" doesn't mean much to most people. We assume that systems simply dwindle and then recover when some new technology comes along. Hint- that isn't the case. My buddist republican uncle once said to me, "When the midwest gets too salinated, we'll just genetically engineer salt resistant crops." It isn't stupidity, it is lack of information. When you start to look at the earth from a systems point of view, it can be pretty scary. Then we go and issue some dire warning. With Rachel Carson, it worked. But only because she was thinking small. And because there wasn't an industrial spin machine to work against. Now a days, it's a different story. S. Hawking just got one of those chilly shivers that occasionally makes us tell our bosses that we maybe shouldn't be doing this thing right here that has such a bad potential etc. The spin machine didn't take hold because he didn't tell us not to drill in the ANWR or drive suv's or eat McDonalds etc. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,06:29    Quote (BWE @ June 19 2006,11:00) I've been trying to spin this into comedy for a few days now but I just can't seem to do it. Maybe the issue is too close to me to see it objectively. People who think that environmental concerns are not important or that they are being spun by scientists with a political agenda- all the religion hoppers claiming that we are an evil conspiracy to destroy religion for example- are ignorant of facts... Agreed. We are heading for trouble and seem to be accelerating the problem.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,17:48    List some critical environmental concerns that could reduce Earth's carrying capacity: Desertification Salinization Deforestation Fisheries Collapse Peak Oil Global Warming Meteor strike War Intense pollution (Chernobyl/ Parts of China etc.) With the exception (albeit a mild exception) of global warming, the science on these topics is rock solid. These are the stuff of nightmares. Each individually has the potential to decimate the human population of Earth. And soon. Hawking was expressing a concern that many people who are aware of the science feel. We are badly abusing our collective body. Ignorance is bliss. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,20:39    Hey, so since Hawking said essentially the same thing as Pianka (and the same thing as Paul Ehrlich, and thousands of others), why do you supposed the IDiots over on UD aren't proclaiming Hawking the latest in the line of "Doctor Dooms"? Why pick on Pianka, but not Hawking? I want to explore this double standard a bit, if you don't mind. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,20:55    Quote (Ichthyic @ June 20 2006,01:39) Hey, so since Hawking said essentially the same thing as Pianka (and the same thing as Paul Ehrlich, and thousands of others), why do you supposed the IDiots over on UD aren't proclaiming Hawking the latest in the line of "Doctor Dooms"? Why pick on Pianka, but not Hawking? I want to explore this double standard a bit, if you don't mind. Maybe they actually learned a lesson with their Pianka shambles. Considering their colosal failure with that tactic, not even they would be stupid enough to atack Hawking in the same manner. But then again......

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,20:58    Quote But then again...... exactly. learning isn't one of their strongpoints. to put it mildly. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,21:39    Things would certainly get interesting if they went after Hawking. The shitstorm would be enormous.

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,21:46    Quote The shitstorm would be enormous. wouldn't it just, though? makes me all the more surprised they haven't. they do seem to be of the philosophy that "there is no such thing as bad publicity". I think maybe the right people just missed his announcement? maybe somebody should drop them a hint... nudge nudge, wink wink. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,22:03    Quote (Ichthyic @ June 20 2006,02:46) nudge nudge, wink wink. Is she a goer? -------------------------- They have almost certainly already seen his comments. Maybe the kajones are lacking.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,22:32    My guess is that it's the same problem I'm having. Just can't figure out the angle I suppose. The trick is that they most certainly have. That's what makes it work. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Chris Hyland Posts: 705 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 19 2006,23:51    Quote These are the stuff of nightmares. Each individually has the potential to decimate the human population of Earth. And soon. Agreed. I fail to see how colonising space would be the best solution though, considering the costs involved. Maybe since a lot of the ID types are engineers etc they would like to see space colonised so they shut up about it.

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,00:51    PZ Myers also takes a stance opposing Hawking. I have some commentary at this post. Basically, my take is that whatever the situation here, we will colonize space when there is an economic incentive to do so, and not before. So, maybe we all go extinct... if there's no economic reason to make a space colony a go, PZ's observation that most people would not be leaving Earth holds, and we shouldn't expect a colony to be funded and built when very few people would ultimately benefit. When space becomes economically attractive, then we can expect to see people living there. Given the cost of living here in the Bay area, that day may not be all that far off. :-) -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,01:29    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 20 2006,05:51) Basically, my take is that whatever the situation here, we will colonize space when there is an economic incentive to do so, and not before. Space colonisation will inevitably become profitable when it determines our survival. Of course, that doesn’t mean it will be feasible at that time, though I don't think it will be for purely economic reasons (rather technical reasons).

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,06:24    The question being, "What is our survival?" If it is the survival of a few dozen people picked to go off planet while billions are left behind to die, somehow I don't think that passing the hat around is going to produce much in the colonization coffer. If there is the opportunity to do something in space that will benefit colonists and the people on Earth and that cannot be done on Earth, then that will drive colonization. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,07:52    I'm sure it would. But it will also be necessary to go off Earth sooner or later, wether it provides a profit or not. The Kyoto protocole and other environmental measures are not motivated by profit, AFAIK (though they are not ratified for economic reasons).

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,10:11    Did you ever read "When worlds collide" by Phillip Wylie? Who gets to go is an interesting question. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4966 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,12:19    Quote But it will also be necessary to go off Earth sooner or later, wether it provides a profit or not. I'm not seeing the line of logic leading to this conclusion. Consider the choices for the mass of the population... You can  spend your money on bread and circuses until the end comes and you die horribly, or we can offer you the option of spending the short remainder of your life with privation to make possible the escape of a select few, with at least less bread and fewer circuses to amuse you before you die horribly. Take your pick... -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Ichthyic Posts: 3325 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,13:20    Quote Given the cost of living here in the Bay area, that day may not be all that far off. :-) already come and gone for me!  Now you know why I moved from the bay area to the desert. Now, even the friggin desert is getting expensive! #### real-estate speculators. -------------- "And the sea will grant each man new hope..." -CC

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 20 2006,23:26    Quote Consider the choices for the mass of the population... You can  spend your money on bread and circuses until the end comes and you die horribly, or we can offer you the option of spending the short remainder of your life with privation to make possible the escape of a select few, with at least less bread and fewer circuses to amuse you before you die horribly. Take your pick... I don’t think the mass population will be given this choice. And even so, I’m convinced it’ll choose your second option. Anyway, space colonization won’t begin abruptly. We spend billions of cash so a couple of people go to Mars. Aren’t there research projects exploring possibilities for the development of new propulsion techniques? Unless I’m mistaken, nothing profitable will be done on Mars that can’t be done here for less cost. This isn’t only fundamental research, but a first step towards space colonization. That’s what NASA’s engineers and directors basically say on TV. And I really don’t think their project is motivated by the economic profit that their grand-grand-grand children may get. And the mass population would buy more bread and circuses with those billions spend in space exploration.

GCT Posts: 1001 Joined: Aug. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 21 2006,00:47    It seems that instead of attack Hawking they would rather go after Pianka again. Someone should tell Witt that he's way behind the times on this one.  Dembski already called DHS, like forever ago.

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2006,05:58    Sombody profits. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2006,06:08    They expect to find hydrocarbons on Mars?

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 22 2006,06:12    Quote (jeannot @ June 22 2006,11:08) They expect to find hydrocarbons on Mars?   No, it's just that it would cost billions of dollars and Halliburton would get it all. Whether it would serve any purpose at all is irrelevant. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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