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Question: Mucho Macho, Macho :: Total Votes:64
Poll choices Votes Statistics
I always carry a knife 12  [18.75%]
I always carry a gun 1  [1.56%]
I have a Blackbelt (JMAF) or equivalent 1  [1.56%]
I carry two knives 1  [1.56%]
I carry two guns 0  [0.00%]
none of the above 43  [67.19%]
I kill people for money 6  [9.38%]
Guests cannot vote
Pages: (2) < [1] 2 >   
  Topic: Mucho Macho, Macho, Guns, Knives, Fists of Fury?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,22:19   

I have known people in all these categories, plus combinations.  Personally, I always have a knife, sometimes two.  I never took my unarmed training to "black belt," but I was my brother's punching bag/sparring partner for his JMAF black belt. (After his retirement from biochemistry (PhD Uni. Southern California 1982) he returned to teaching martial arts).  

Pacifism has not come "naturally."

Edited by Dr.GH on April 01 2008,20:21

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,22:38   

Hmmm.  I answered this question based on my non-show day.  However, there are days (and weeks, occasionally) that I am in character most of the time.  Most of these (my clown character, my festival juggling show character, death-walker stilt guy, etc) actually carry 3 knives and sometimes 6.

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But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2008,23:03   

I used to carry a cheapo pocket knife but it got worn out. I haven't really felt the need to replace it, as it's usually perfectly simple to go get a screwdriver or real knife or something.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Falk Macara



Posts: 11
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,01:52   

What if you're a hulking god-fearing hunk of manhood who carries sixteen knives, twelve guns, a chainsaw (perhaps two) and (maybe) an, er, crossbow that fires chainsaws?  At once.

Anyway:  I carry nothing, and have only a very basic understanding of melee^ combat*.

I'm not sure why anyone would carry the items in the poll (Unless you're hunting or fishing areas whose wildlife thinks our lack of horns, fur, claws et cetera makes us particularly desirable), and even less sure why anyone would admit it...

Falk.

*: "hit the other chap with a fire extinguisher, preferably from behind, really preferably while he's asleep.  Repeat."

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,03:33   

In total I've trained for just over 17 years in traditional †Chinese martial arts (one 11 year stretch and 3 sets of 2) over the last 26 years. Primarily Wing Chun, but as a much younger chap I did two more modern, competition oriented styles (Lau Gar and White Crane) alongside my main area of study for 8 years. I also taught my own classes for 5 of those years. The gaps are mostly due to injury and, in more recent years, simple lack of time to do all the things I want to do.

And? So what?

Martial arts don't make you "hard" and to be even blunter a "black belt" is not that significant. A good martial artist starts learning martial arts AFTER they get to a "black belt" or its equivalent. That much training is like learning the basic vocab and grammar of a language, it doesn't make you a fluent speaker, just someone who can churn out a phrase or two and has the basic tools from which fluency may arise if the person works hard enough and is sufficiently disciplined.

Neither are these arts any good for self defense if the person doing them lacks that discipline and will to use them accordingly. One of the things that really, really annoys me is the macho culture prevalent in certain martial arts, not just because it utterly misses the philosophical (ad even historical) underpinnings of especially the Chinese martial arts, but because it is a) self deluding and defeating and b) actually at odds with their proper study and execution. It is also, almost exclusively, bravado. Bullshit born of insecurity masked by aggression and stupidity. It's the hallmark of a bully and a coward, or at least someone so monumentally confused as to need expert help.

Learn to fight by all means, I'm a great advocate of learning how to use your body and learning the basis of self defense (esp for women), but never court violence because of some (likely false) perception that you have an ability for it. The truth of the matter is there is ALWAYS someone out there better than you, and in any fight luck plays a significant part. An untrained lout can get in a lucky punch, you can slip on poor ground, anything can happen.

Martial arts are a disciplined study. They take effort, they take an enormous amount of willpower to use correctly and train effectively, and they take a dedication beyond most sports. One of the things I genuinely regret most in my life are those periods when I have not been able to train my martial arts for whatever reason. Not coincidentally these are the time times when things have not gone well for me. The discipline, self confidence, fitness and health and mental benefits I have gained from martial arts training are expensively bought (in terms of effort and determination) and vital. At least to me personally.

Violence IS a solution to some limited problems, one of many, not the first solution, and very, very rarely a desirable one. There's much greater wisdom and satisfaction in talking your way out of a violent conflict, maybe even to the extent of actually making friends with the bloke that you were about to knock nine bells out of, than running into one.

I've got to be honest Dr GH I don't understand the point of this poll. Violence is all well and good and can be great fun in limited circumstances (considering my rugby playing and martial arts careers I'd be something of a hypocrite if I said differently) but what relevance does it have to anything here? Would I smack an IDCist about? Nope, not unless the silly fucker took a swing at me for poking fun at his ludicrous ideas. And even then, I'd think about it. If I have to fight, I've failed.

Why anyone would carry a knife or gun or any overt weapon in today's society is beyond me (usual cveats apply). It's the province of scared and insecure teenage boys, gang culture and faux machismo. I remember that (psychological) phase of my own teenage years with no small degree of shame. Like me, the majority of people in the UK, Europe and the USA don't live in war torn ghettos, don't live in a kill or be killed environment, their concerns are more immediate (food on tables, job security, health). The culture of fear and paranoia whipped up by a greedy media is frankly a shocking endictment of the general lack of ability in ciritical thought and a complete lack of statistical understanding. If I lived in Darfur, or Palestine, or Tibet I would think differently, the reality is that I (and probably everyone on this board) don't.

I've got to be honest I'm at odds to see why on earth you would post this. I understand curiosity, but really, this is an odd topic to be curious about. Perhaps in your line of work you encounter a greater degree of human nastiness than I or others (although if you'd met my PhD supervisor you'd be disabused of that notion, Pol Pot was a pussycat by comparison!) and as such it plays more heavily on your mind. I'm with Falk on this, why anyone would carry such things, or admit it is beyond me.

I'm happy to have a discussion about martial arts, which like science and rugby is one of my great passions, but why on earth anyone would want to brag about carrying a gun or a knife for violent ends is something I don't sympathise with (in the society I live in) and something that if I discovered about someone I would think of as a glaring sign that they were a headcase and in need of sectioning under the mental health act for paranoia above and beyond the call of duty.

Pacifism never comes naturally to H. sapiens. It's something you have to work at. I'd have thought that someone with your understanding of biology would know that! ;-)

Louis

P.S. Falk, I love your understanding of melee combat! Rincewind in the Discworld books tells people that they can keep their vorpal swords and enchanted axes, a half brick in a sock is the way forward. I agree with him and with you! The fire extinguisher applied judiciously is the modern equivalent of the half brick in the sock. Luckily I read your post before anyone else had got into work, so when I laughed out loud I didn't get funny looks! Oh yeah and I want one of those chainsaw firing crossbows. Could it have a rabid Rottweiler cannon on the underside?

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Bye.

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,05:16   

I am disappointed that my weapon of choice was not on the list: A DeWalt cordless drill.Armed and ready, baby!

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,05:42   

Louis: Martial arts can indeed be great fun, personally I enjoy kick boxing and boxing.

I disagree with the preferable (Rincewind) way of handling melee though, 400 yard dash seems to me like the best martial art for most situations.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,06:33   

I move mindfully through the world and go about my bidness. Do that and you're unlikely need any of that stuff.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
fusilier



Posts: 239
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,07:15   

I have carried a pocket knife since I was a Cub Scout - in 1955.  Right now, it's a Buck "trapper," which I got as an anniversary present in 1973 or 1974.  (Supposedly, the King of Sweden once pulled out a pocket knife and loaned it to some riggers setting up stage decorations for a Nobel banquet.)

I hold a green belt (Go Kyu) in Kodokan Judo - but am sadly out of practice.

I do not carry a firearm, since the Community College where I teach forbids that as a condition of employment.

On weekends, when I defend New France from les chochonchien Anglais, I will typically have a neck knife, a belt knife, a boot knife, a tamahak, a .62 cal flintlock fusil de chasse, with 60-120 cartridges in my cartridge box.

My Beloved and Darling Wife has more and nicer knives than I do, and is agitating for a nice muff pistol.

Oh, sometimes I'm un cannonier-bombardier, not un fusilier, and then I have my 2.5 inch coehorn mortar.

vive le roi!
fusilier, soldat, Compagnie franche de Muy, de la Marine, du Detroit

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fusilier
James 2:24

  
George



Posts: 314
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,07:34   

I always carry a Swiss army knife.  Essential for a field botanist and useful at parties for disarming bottles of wine.

  
k.e..



Posts: 3746
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,08:15   

I recently (March this year) gave away a much used Victorinox Swiss Army Knives Cyber Tool to a semi literate young man who could hardly speak a word of English deep in the Jungles of Halmahera in Indonesia for being such a help with my job there. I had promised him my hp (Indonesian for 'cell phone' literally hand phone) but I had so many phone numbers and hot sms from some very willing young cewaks (girl friends) that I couldn't part with it and expect to do any serious horizontal folk dancing studies with those alleged orang orang (people).

I never needed a weapon although they saw fit to provide me with an armed guard for one day since there might have been trouble at the mill ...so to speak. Anyway I didn't have one for the other 50 plus days I was there. And that guard couldn't keep up in the jungle anyway even though he looked fit.

I went to some very dodgy places and made a nuisance of myself as usual but nobody wanted to kill me. So as I always say be careful and have fun and if you wake up alive without a tattoo and you don't have to gnaw off an arm so you don't wake up who's sleeping next to you it's been a good night.


That tool had opened many many pieces of equipment cut toe nails, decorked wine, opened beer, tightened nuts, fashioned implements the list is endless. It was never used as a weapon. Maybe on the end of a piece of rope it could give someone a nasty headache. I fell naked without it now since I'm always reaching for it to do something. They don't sell them at airports now so I'll have to actually find a frigging shop that sells that particular model.

Anyway I'm off back to PNG midnight tonight and will be in a bush this time tomorrow night.

good night

P.S. I'm sure if Dt was there they would have burned him they do that to people they don't like.

There was a mini Rawanda type massacre there around year 2000 many thousands of people were hacked to death during Christian Moslem violence.

See why I don't like religion.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,08:21   

I carry sharp tongue with me at all times, and use a loaded finger as point of emphasis when needed.  On weekends my weapons of choice are usually hammer, drill and screwdriver.

I enjoy beating up defenseless IDists, where in a battle of wits, they are usually unarmed.

fusilier - do you re-enact only in Detroit, or travel around?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,08:54   

I have a big truck, man boobs, attack pups and sandal sunburn.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,08:56   

I kill money for people.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:04   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 02 2008,08:54)
I have a big truck, man boobs, attack pups and sandal sunburn.


HA HA - THIS IS YOU!



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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:11   

LISTEN UP HOMOS CAUSE I'M ONLY SAYING THIS ONCET AND THEN I WILL BE CRUNCHING NOSES.  I'M THE MOST MACHO MOTHERFUCKER THAT EVER MACHED AN O.  I'D SAY I'D BEEN WITH ALL YOUR MOTHERS TWICE BUT IT WOULD BE REDUNDANT AND INSTEAD I'D RATHER COUNT MY MONEY THANKS MICHAEL DELL.  

YOU HOMOS COULDN'T BEAT ME WITH ALL OF THE KNIVES AND AL OF THE PISTOLS AND ALL OF THE CHAINSAWS IN THE WORLD.  I DOUBT YOU OR THE CLOWN COULD EVEN GET PAST MY PIT BULLS THAT I FEED CHICKEN SKINS AND ATHIEST BABIES.  BILL SAYS SINCE I DO A LOT OF SCIENCE IN THE FIELD OF ANIMAL NUTRITION I SHOULD PUBLISH IT IN SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN BUT I TOLD HIM I GAVE MY PRESCRIPTION TO THE MORPHODYKE UNTIL IT SHAVES THE REST OF ITS FACE AND TEACHES ITS ASS TO WALK BACKWARDS.  

LOUIS IS A PONCE AND I COULD DO SOUND EXPERIMENTS WITH HIS HEAD AND A TRACTOR TIRE.  I'M PRETTY SURE THAT I COULD CONVINCE THE MATERIALIST THAT THE LOW D 2 OCTAVES BELOW MIDDLE C THAT IS THE SOUND OF HIS UPPER LIP TAKING ON THE SHAPE OF A SIZE 13 BALLET SLIPPER (THAT'S RIGHT HOMOS I'M THAT MACHO) IS JUST A RANDOM MEANINGLESS ACTION OF ATOMS BOUNCING AROUND AND HE SHOULD STOP CRYING SO MUCH ABOUT IT  AND TIGHTEN UP EVERY CHANCET HE GETS.  HA I KIL ME SOMETIMES.

K.E. CARRIES A SOLAR ADAPTER FOR HIS DOUBLE HEDDLED INIUT ATTRACTING DEVICE.  DONT ASK WHERE HE CARRIES IT HE HAS TO SAY HOO-RA AND SQUEEZE TO GET IT OUT.

IT TOOK YOU A 1000 POSTS FOR ME TO MAKE YOU LOOK THIS DUMB.  HA I BET YOU DONT EVER GET LAID AGAIN FOR THE FIRST TIME THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR BEING GAY CHANCE WORSHIPPING EBOLA EVO-MAT SADLY STILL LINKED MATERIALIST BIG SCIENCE WORSHIPPERS.


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You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:17   

Quote (dnmlthr @ April 02 2008,11:42)
Louis: Martial arts can indeed be great fun, personally I enjoy kick boxing and boxing.

I disagree with the preferable (Rincewind) way of handling melee though, 400 yard dash seems to me like the best martial art for most situations.

LOL I'd have to say I agree with you wholeheartedly, but I am a propr forward (look up rugby union positions), and thus a whole 400 yards of dashing is quite beyond me!*

Louis

*It's not really but this is just the joke that gets told about props. One must at all times fulfill one's sporting comedy legacy.

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:18   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 02 2008,12:33)
I move mindfully through the world and go about my bidness. Do that and you're unlikely need any of that stuff.

Here bloody here!

Do you give lessons?

;-)

Louis

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:19   

Quote (Kristine @ April 02 2008,14:56)
I kill money for people.

Post of the Decade!

So much conveyed by so few words.

Brava!

Louis

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:21   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ April 02 2008,15:11)
LISTEN UP HOMOS CAUSE I'M ONLY SAYING THIS ONCET AND THEN I WILL BE CRUNCHING NOSES. †I'M THE MOST MACHO MOTHERFUCKER THAT EVER MACHED AN O. †I'D SAY I'D BEEN WITH ALL YOUR MOTHERS TWICE BUT IT WOULD BE REDUNDANT AND INSTEAD I'D RATHER COUNT MY MONEY THANKS MICHAEL DELL. †

YOU HOMOS COULDN'T BEAT ME WITH ALL OF THE KNIVES AND AL OF THE PISTOLS AND ALL OF THE CHAINSAWS IN THE WORLD. †I DOUBT YOU OR THE CLOWN COULD EVEN GET PAST MY PIT BULLS THAT I FEED CHICKEN SKINS AND ATHIEST BABIES. †BILL SAYS SINCE I DO A LOT OF SCIENCE IN THE FIELD OF ANIMAL NUTRITION I SHOULD PUBLISH IT IN SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN BUT I TOLD HIM I GAVE MY PRESCRIPTION TO THE MORPHODYKE UNTIL IT SHAVES THE REST OF ITS FACE AND TEACHES ITS ASS TO WALK BACKWARDS. †

LOUIS IS A PONCE AND I COULD DO SOUND EXPERIMENTS WITH HIS HEAD AND A TRACTOR TIRE. †I'M PRETTY SURE THAT I COULD CONVINCE THE MATERIALIST THAT THE LOW D 2 OCTAVES BELOW MIDDLE C THAT IS THE SOUND OF HIS UPPER LIP TAKING ON THE SHAPE OF A SIZE 13 BALLET SLIPPER (THAT'S RIGHT HOMOS I'M THAT MACHO) IS JUST A RANDOM MEANINGLESS ACTION OF ATOMS BOUNCING AROUND AND HE SHOULD STOP CRYING SO MUCH ABOUT IT †AND TIGHTEN UP EVERY CHANCET HE GETS. †HA I KIL ME SOMETIMES.

K.E. CARRIES A SOLAR ADAPTER FOR HIS DOUBLE HEDDLED INIUT ATTRACTING DEVICE. †DONT ASK WHERE HE CARRIES IT HE HAS TO SAY HOO-RA AND SQUEEZE TO GET IT OUT.

IT TOOK YOU A 1000 POSTS FOR ME TO MAKE YOU LOOK THIS DUMB. †HA I BET YOU DONT EVER GET LAID AGAIN FOR THE FIRST TIME THATS WHAT YOU GET FOR BEING GAY CHANCE WORSHIPPING EBOLA EVO-MAT SADLY STILL LINKED MATERIALIST BIG SCIENCE WORSHIPPERS.

{Tentatively raises hand}

Ummm Mr Erasmus, I thought you'd been with my mother three times....sir.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,09:43   

Quote (Louis @ April 02 2008,09:17)
[quote=dnmlthr,April 02 2008,11:42]Louis: Martial arts can indeed be great fun, personally I enjoy kick boxing and boxing...

Phhh. I do box-kicking.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,10:13   

Oh come on, that tiny thumbnail hardly does justice to the male-inadequacy truck, manboobs, and bandy, hairless legs:



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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,10:49   

OK, which jokers said they killed people for money?  They do realise that UD will think you are coming after them?  
(the people at UD imagine they are worth spending money on to get rubbed out)

I failed black belt at shotokan karate, did a couple of years of Aikido, and now do historical fencing and a bit of western martial arts.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,10:55   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 02 2008,11:13)
Oh come on, that tiny thumbnail hardly does justice to the male-inadequacy truck, manboobs, and bandy, hairless legs...

And the butterfly on the antenna. Which is a lot scarier than DaveTard hisself.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,12:17   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ April 02 2008,10:55)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 02 2008,11:13)
Oh come on, that tiny thumbnail hardly does justice to the male-inadequacy truck, manboobs, and bandy, hairless legs...

And the butterfly on the antenna. Which is a lot scarier than DaveTard hisself.

WOW!  Talk about coincidences!

Over at the leatheronleatherUD.com site, someone said that Ol' Davie has  that same butterfly tattooed on a strategic part of his anatomy!

edited for spelling

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,12:51   

Louis, I wasn't being all that serious, but I am interested in the American association of violence and "competence," as D'Tard's recent comments about street thugs illustrate.  So maybe I was being a little serious.

Most people see the lighter side.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,13:08   

Does this guy count? It's suitable for performing bris on creationist shkotzim.



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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,13:43   

Quote (Dr.GH @ April 02 2008,18:51)
Louis, I wasn't being all that serious, but I am interested in the American association of violence and "competence," as D'Tard's recent comments about street thugs illustrate. †So maybe I was being a little serious.

Most people see the lighter side.

Oh bollocks, have I fallen foul of early morning insensitivity to humour? My bad, my bad.

I retract my dumbfuckery on the issue utterly!

My excuse was that I had only had 1 coffee at that point.

Louis

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Bye.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,17:40   

I'm going to spam you with stuff I wrote for my livejournal a while ago:

On Violence

Violence is about hurting people.  There can be problems with this, apart from the obvious one that hurting people is illegal unless done in self defence.
Moreover, if you let your emotional desire to hurt them overtake your thinking, youíll just end up rushing in and lamping them, with little skill and science, which might not be your intention, nor be very effective.  (Yet this seems to work well enough for lots of people)  

Better surely to learn how to hurt people properly first.  But the question is how exactly?  In martial arts lessons you learn control, and a great deal of practise goes into using this control.  Sparring training teaches you to do painful moves in a way that voids hurting your partner, but one criticism is that you can then become too used to holding back, not following through properly.

Itís why things such as full contact karate were invented.  (In my opinion itís not that much better, since if you are doing the karate properly, they youíll be hospitalizing your opponent every bout [or else youíre not doing karate, youíre mincing about waving at them], so obviously they are just holding back their blows, like everyone else.  Although training in actually being hit and not freezing is always good, it gets up my nose how at least one practitioner of ďfull contactĒ karate I am acquainted with will denigrate other forms of karate without acknowledging the inherent and to my mind gigantic limit in his own form)

The impression I get (From tv, books etc) is that what really counts in a fight in real life is intention.  If you have two people, one who really wants to fight and hurt someone (Assuming they arenít totally mad or on drugs, and are reasonably aware) and another who doesnít, the likely outcome is that the non-fighter will make some feeble and half hearted effort at defence when the offensive chap rushes in, and then will get decked.  Case closed, attack wins, bloke has the vor, initiative, and also the drive to carry it all out.  Vacillating person lost.  If youíre in a situation you donít want to be in, very few people will say ďOK, I am stuck here, lets get it over and done with right now.Ē  Most people will hesitate, try and find a way out of the potential violence before it happens, even although in some cases this will not help.  

Now, before a certain section of my readership possibly gets up and says ďBut weíre violent, violence is commonplace, everyone should be prepared for itĒ, I would refer you to games theory, anthropology, actual British history not what you read in some places, and their own experience.  (And mine.  Only personal violence I have faced so far was at school) Violence is not that common, and ourselves and other animals have evolved complex ways of minimizing it whilst carrying on our lives, so it takes weeks of training in the army to get you ready to take someone elseís life.

Being prepared for violence takes time and effort, and many people have other things on their minds.  So being non-violent is good and valid.  Its what I am.  Honest!
(Ok, just because Iíve done various forms of martial arts for a few years, and have a hankering to learn advanced sabotage using household chemicals, doesnít mean Iím violent.  I have attacked no one (since school, and I was provoked, and I think I didnít really hurt them.))

So, I say, in order to win a fight, you have to want to hurt your opponent.  
This desire to hurt can be sheer rage, anger, emotional strength, however as pointed out above, this can limit your effectiveness.  Even better if you actually control your rage and funnel it into doing violence properly.  Mind you, it all depends on whether you actually want to kill them or not.  To judge by the murder cases that come up in court, many of them were not intended to be murders.  OK, the neds kicked him 15 times in the head, but if they had really wanted to kill him, one stomp on the neck would have been enough.  This sort of thing makes me wonder about the kind of idiot that does end up murdering people.  There seem to be some cold blooded assassins, but many others are on drink or drugs, and thus not in control of themselves in any real form, and therefore kill someone in the longest most inefficient way possible.  By contrast, the ideal sword duel should be over in a couple of seconds.  Same on the battlefield.  Kill one, step, kill another.  So here we have the idea of efficiency coming to the fore, rather than emotionally battering someone.  But of course in that sort of fighting you are doing it for emotional and egotistical reasons (ďHe didnít show me any respectĒ).

So, regarding violence, we have various kinds applied in different situations, from a mugging to the battlefield.  This adds to the complexity.  

However, to me there are times it is amazing that more people donít get hurt or killed.  When I was doing Aikido, they had a self defence lesson once, just for a change.  At one point I was partnered up with a newbie, and they told us to go over all the vulnerable places on someone.  I worried my partner by pointing out , well, Iíve lost count, but there are dozens of places you can hit or twist people to hurt or kill them.  Yet you donít need to know all of that to actually hurt someone, just the desire to do so.  But knowledge of these places to hit and hurt people would make any violent attack you do much more effective.  Think how vulnerable your throat is.  Then there are teenagers with knives who just donít know what they are doing so kill people without really trying, because the human body is actually rather vulnerable to sharp weapons.  

Which is where training comes in.  With appropriate training, you should be able to prevent someone from hurting you, even if they want to.  Iíve had a few years of Karate and Aikido, but never used them.  Being over 6 feet tall and sort of average broad shouldered and avoiding eyeing the wrong people up seems to have stood me in good stead.  That and avoiding dodgy places and people.  But that aside, all I can say is that it takes months of training to get you to be any good at something like this.  It is not something you can pick up in a few hours, you have to train your muscles and mind, and also get psychologically used to the idea of hurting someone.

So last year, for various reasons which most of you will know about, my anger got bigger and a bit less controlled.  Now I know that if I unleash it, and now I can, in the correct time, I will smack someone about.  No control to not hurt, just power straight through them.  Its kind of nice to have this feeling of rage hidden inside that you can access given a few seconds, but its not very helpful when your trying to spar painlessly with your friends.  Because in the haste to hit them first, its easy to slip the control by accident.  Fortunately no one was hurt, and I now have proper control over the urge to win and hurt.  


How to avoid problems with neds and other unsavoury characters
1) Be over 6ft tall, male, and maybe 6ft wide as well.
2) Move well, with certainty.
3) Donít dress too oddly, otherwise they will be tempted to take the mick.
4) If you are dressed oddly, eg reenacting, make sure thereís lots of you and they know you all have a carload of weapons and know how to use them.  
5) Avoid areas of town with neds
6) Avoid times neds are likely to be around.  
7) Cultivate looking at people in the right way.

Now, option 1 is not open to everyone.  Iím 6ft 3.5 inches, although only 11 stone, but when wearing clothes that is not so obvious and probably helps me look a lot more intimidating.  Iíve had 2nd grade teenage nedlets go ďAwright manĒ when I jog past them on the canal towpath, and despite walking through some unsavoury parts of Manchester, I never seemed to have any trouble.  In the book ďGuards GuardsĒ, Pratchetís character Carrot walks to Ankh Morpork and has no trouble, due to bandits leaping out then apologizing for bothering him.  Seeing as he is described as carrot shaped, that does not seem surprising.  Now, this will not work all the time, especially not on nutters, but you simply have to learn to avoid them, or deal with them some other way.

Option 2- walk and move under control, so that you donít look like you are drunk or anything.  Drunks are easy prey if you want some fun.  But if itís a choice between a drunk and someone whose walking along easily, looking round them, then theyíll probably go for the drunk.  Confidence is also important.  If you walk confidently, they wont bother you, but if you try and make yourself small and inoffensive and look a bit scared, again youíll be easy prey.

Option 3- If you do dress up, it helps if you carry a sharp wit and use it often.  Some of us are better endowed with this than others, unfortunately.  I tend to think up a good answer next week some time, and would rather just pull out a blaster and distribute a few megawatts of energy between them all.

Option 4- Even then it doesnít always work, the hard core neds will try and steal the weapons.  But there are many stories of people in kit and carrying weapons looking scary enough that locals hold off from having a go.  Not to mention your neighbours, who after seeing what goes on at your place, decide never to annoy you in case they end up on a stake in the back garden.

Option 5- Easy to say, harder to do until you know a town.  Edinburgh for example, there are places that people congregate after pub chucking out time, so you should avoid them, yet these places are fine during the day.  Then at some times of day places are haunts of skateboarders and Goths and suchlike, both as far as I am aware fairly harmless.  (But then I am tall and walk like I mean it)  There area also places like graveyards that jaikies and drunks like to congregate, even during the day, so it is not necessarily advisable to go into them without a bit of care.

Option 6- Also takes a bit of learning.  Now, nutters can be found at all times of day, thatís one of the reasons they are nutters, but like neds, they are more common in the evening.  Although you might meet one at 7am because he never went to bed.  For example, when I was in Manchester, walking to Karate at 10 in the morning on a Saturday, there was no one on Oxford Road.  Early Saturday morning there really arenít many around, and those there are will be dragging themselves back to their own bed.  Tea time and early evening you wont get too many either.  Afternoons they will be hanging around shops and suchlike, but then in the evening they will be around a favourite haunt outside a pub or in an open public place.  

Option 7 is quite hard to explain, and is by far the less obvious point to make.  People donít really like being looked in the eyes too much, but they will check there for emotions and how much attention you are paying them.  So if you want to intimidate someone it is recommended to look them continually in the eyes.  This is often a sign that you are dealing with a nutter, and nutters should be run over with your car, or shot using a sawn off shotgun, in order to prevent them having an opportunity to actually do any damage.  So running or apologizing is probably a good idea if faced with a nutter.  (Running is usually a good idea in all cases anyway)

Anyway, most non nutters will glance at you, then look away elsewhere, for example see how people avoid each others gazes in crowded trains.  Except of course for neds or teenagers of all stripes out for a good time.  They will use their gaze to try and dominate the scene.  Now, if you can catch their eyes the wrong way, ie you look up, see them looking your way, and panickedly drop your eyes, theyíve won.  They may later single you out for special attention of some sort.  If however you can hold their gaze in a neutral fashion, and not be intimidated, they will back off.  (Unless theyíre really after a fight, in which case, sorry, wrong option.  Remember this is all situation specific.  Street smarts take time to learn)  

Now, this neutral Iím not bothered gaze should also be used when dealing with unknown adults.  Iím thinking of the kind you meet in rougher parts of town, they are higher class than neds, probably have a job and a wife/ girlfriend, and at the upper age group will have grandkids etc.  They appreciate being taken somewhat seriously, so simply looking scared by the bloke in the leather jacket and shirt does not make a good impression.  They wont attack you for looking like a wimp, but in many circumstances, simply treating them as an equal (Assuming you are similar age/ money whatever) is always good, and you never know, one of them might be the local crime boss, and making a nice neutral, strong but not aggressive impression on him is definitely a good start.) is the best way to go.  Iím talking about a gaze which looks at them, holds the eyes for split second, then moves on, especially when you are looking round somewhere.  No aggression, no reaction from looking at them, you just note their presence and move on.  

This is kind of linked to character and presence.  Some people have it, and they will dominate a room or a situation.  A short middle aged woman who is not allowed to belt them can still control a class of schoolchildren with character and presence.  Essentially if your character is stronger than your opponent, you can force them to back down.  One way is to slag them off in a way that they cannot respond to.  


Feel free to add other suggestions.  It is also important to note that being a ned is as much a state of mind as a socioeconomic label.  The only murder I have heard of in Balernoís history (Balerno being the middle class suburb I grew up in) involved nice middle class lads.  OK, they werenít that nice, but it is important to remember that trouble can come from anyone, so you have to become more street smart.
Itís also fun telling people that I work in Bellshill.  Bellshill has a bad reputation, but its not that bad really.  Not everyone at work has a criminal record, just a few of them.

  
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,18:37   

Does this count:

http://www.problemsolvers.com/product.asp?pcode=859

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Assassinator



Posts: 479
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,19:16   

From Louis:
Quote
Why anyone would carry a knife or gun or any overt weapon in today's society is beyond me

QFT I say, I really don't understand it. I got bullied around a lot when I was on high-school and middle-school (hope that's the correct term) but I never got into real fights, although I nearly lost my temper once (and I had a strong desire to, literally, smash someone through a computer screen). Anyway, I never bothered with 1 of the above, although Aikido appealed to me for it's fluent style and "pwning" (I'm a gamer, sorry) an opponent with the kinetic energy he creates himself.

Side note, how to prevent a fight, get named Staff Sergeant Max Fightmaster
Then you're safe for life, "No you fool! you can't fight him! He's Staff Sgt. Max Fightmaster! Think about this for a second!"

  
qetzal



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 02 2008,22:43   

I have my work badge on one of those retractable clip thingys; I could use it as a garrote in a pinch.

I can also highly recommend guthrie's weapon #1. It's generally served me well.

But really, my favorite weapon is 100 billion or so cerebral neurons. I try to keep those ready for use at all times.

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,00:11   

I've always carried a high quality pocketknife. As far as using a knife for a weapon? I worked in a slaughterhouse for almost 9 years. I still have a union withdrawal card listing me as 'Journeyman Butcher'. Does that count?

Of course, that was when there was still such a thing as a union butcher so it's been a while.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,00:53   

I like walking around the sketchy parts of town in the wee hours. The barrios off the riverwalk in San Antonio, MLK in (anywhere), parts of Old North Durham, Rosemary Street in Chapel Hill. It's safer for me that most people. I'm a big guy. I'm not a woman, I don't look like I have any money, I chat with the bad guys. And if anyone acts sketchy to me I start talking to them and throw them off-script and that's a good thing to do. Amplifies their anxiety if they're up to something. You'd be surprised how thrown off people get when they demand your wallet and you ask them "Dude, come on. What are you doing? Come on. Look at this. What are you doing here?" Tell them your name and ask for theirs and stick your hand out. You'd be surprised how disoriented a would-be mugger gets when you do that. So I never get in any interesting trouble. And I used to carry a pocketknife but I lost it in my last move. Gotta get another.  A good CRKT fits my price/performance ratio. A Taser is a good idea. Pepper Spray* is a good idea. Nice nonlethal solutions you can use and run away from and not have to deal with consequences. Guns are fine but I don't carry one because if you use it you'll have to at least explain yourself to a judge and I don't want the hassle. People generally think the world is more dangerous than it really is. My advice to most people if they get in bad situations is just run. A mugger might have a gun, but if you start running, first of all he's off his game, second of all he has to figure whether it's worth trying to chase you down for what you've got. Ever tried to shoot a moving target? Just a stationary target is harder than you think. So I voted "carry a knife" but at the moment I don't. But I will in the future. I'm between knives right now.

*A cop I know loves telling the story of pepper spraying a hostile hispanic guy, and when he hit him with the pepper spray, the guy said "Hey man, why you hit me with the chilies??!?!?!!"

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,03:26   

Quote (stevestory @ April 03 2008,06:53)
I like walking around the sketchy parts of town in the wee hours.

[SNIP]

Sorry Steve but I just got such a kerb crawling vibe from that sentence that coffee came out my nose I was laughing so hard.

You guys know what kerb crawling is?

Quote
The barrios off the riverwalk in San Antonio, MLK in (anywhere), parts of Old North Durham, Rosemary Street in Chapel Hill.


Bolding mine.

MLK? RUUUUN IT'S THE MEDIA!!!!*

Louis

*Chris Rock fans will know to what I refer.

--------------
Bye.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,05:24   

Quote (stevestory @ April 03 2008,00:53)
People generally think the world is more dangerous than it really is.

This is the interesting bit.  I have noticed this myself a lot as well.  The newspapers like to keep it stoked up, and certain people swallow everything the newspapers say.  The gvt also benefits, as it introduces ID cards and compulsory DNA testing and compulsory love your leader classes in school, not to mention taking your house from you when you take part in protest marches, which after all are a crime.

Anyway, my own realisation came at uni, when I was taking part in one of those phsychiatric tests that students are inveigled into for some free biscuits and maybe a fiver . It asked a lot of questions, one of which was, roughly, "How afraid are you of crime?"

I was about to tick the "quite afraid" box in a kind of reflex, before I thought about it for a second, and ticked the not afraid box.  I realised that a great deal of work goes into making you feel afraid of crime, and physical assault and robbery and suchlike, and yet as long as you are lucky, middle class and take some care, you have nothing to fear.  Mind you the stories from some of the people at work are a bit scary, but then they live in dodgy areas, through no fault of their own.

  
JohnW



Posts: 2767
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,11:43   

I'm English.  If I get into trouble, I say "Unhand me, foreign ruffian.  I am a subject of Her Majesty."  

On the rare occasions when this doesn't work, I threaten to cook something.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
fusilier



Posts: 239
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,12:55   

Quote (J-Dog @ April 02 2008,09:21)
I carry sharp tongue with me at all times, and use a loaded finger as point of emphasis when needed. †On weekends my weapons of choice are usually hammer, drill and screwdriver.

I enjoy beating up defenseless IDists, where in a battle of wits, they are usually unarmed.

fusilier - do you re-enact only in Detroit, or travel around?

J-dog,
believe it or not, Detroit is one of the few places where our unit doesn't re-enact.  No space.  The River Rouge event in Dearborn disbanded after the mayor died - he really supported us, but the rest of the city council* did not.

St. Clair Flats, Houghton Lake, some odd little fort by the Maumee river near a small town called Perrysburg, OH.  (Prolly never heard of it, I'd guess. ;^>  )  Indiana, Ft. Niagra.  

I've been as far east as Ft. Louisbourg on Cape Breton Island, and as far south as ft. Louden in TN.  Never made it to Ft. Toulouse on the Gulf coast.

There is an annual event at Bourbonaisse, IL, every July.  I haven't gone the past couple of years, since I don't thermoregulate as well as I used to.  We (My Beloved and Darling Wife and I) will most likely be there this year, however, since I'm developing a civilian persona, and won't be wearing three layers of wool.

fusilier
James 2:24

*It most certainly had nothing to do with an incident that never happened around 1990, when some citizenry decided to come in one night and roust out the visitors.  The police Never Once made complaint to Hizzoner about a bayonet charge, with the Frasers as the anvil, the French troups as the hammer, and mixed Ranger and milice on the flanks.

--------------
fusilier
James 2:24

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,13:10   

Fusilier, have you read "Muletrain to Maggody: An Arly Hanks Mystery (Arly Hanks Mysteries)" by Joan Hess?

You might have a chuckle or two.

She has one out featuring SCA as well, "Damsels in Distress (Claire Malloy Mysteries, No. 16)."

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,13:51   

Quote (fusilier @ April 03 2008,12:55)
Quote (J-Dog @ April 02 2008,09:21)
I carry sharp tongue with me at all times, and use a loaded finger as point of emphasis when needed.  On weekends my weapons of choice are usually hammer, drill and screwdriver.

I enjoy beating up defenseless IDists, where in a battle of wits, they are usually unarmed.

fusilier - do you re-enact only in Detroit, or travel around?

J-dog,
believe it or not, Detroit is one of the few places where our unit doesn't re-enact.  No space.  The River Rouge event in Dearborn disbanded after the mayor died - he really supported us, but the rest of the city council* did not.

St. Clair Flats, Houghton Lake, some odd little fort by the Maumee river near a small town called Perrysburg, OH.  (Prolly never heard of it, I'd guess. ;^>  )  Indiana, Ft. Niagra.  

I've been as far east as Ft. Louisbourg on Cape Breton Island, and as far south as ft. Louden in TN.  Never made it to Ft. Toulouse on the Gulf coast.

There is an annual event at Bourbonaisse, IL, every July.  I haven't gone the past couple of years, since I don't thermoregulate as well as I used to.  We (My Beloved and Darling Wife and I) will most likely be there this year, however, since I'm developing a civilian persona, and won't be wearing three layers of wool.

fusilier
James 2:24

*It most certainly had nothing to do with an incident that never happened around 1990, when some citizenry decided to come in one night and roust out the visitors.  The police Never Once made complaint to Hizzoner about a bayonet charge, with the Frasers as the anvil, the French troups as the hammer, and mixed Ranger and milice on the flanks.

Perrysburg- Never heard of it?  Au Contraire!  
Perrsyburg.  You park slanting in to the curb on Main street.
Big civil war cannon at the corner of Main and First down by the Maumee River.  

I grew up in Toledo, and went to University of Toledo ( a solid 3rd-tier public school), and as an Anthropology major, and experienced digger, worked on an "emergency dig" at Fort Meigs, in Maumee.

Also dated a girl named Liz... but I am not drunk enough to
thrill you, scare you, amaze you with what she could do bore you with the details.

So, yeah. I know Perrsyburg.  And let us know if you do anything up @ NW  suburbs of Chicago.  After the baseball season ends.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Ra-ŕl



Posts: 93
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,14:48   

I commuted by bike till I was forty and carried a knife. I had the attitude that no one would bother a crazy long hair with a knife riding around the projects past midnight. I also ran or walked late at night, until I was mugged last year by two young men shopping for an I-Pod. One distracted me (I was on the phone) and the other hit me and grabbed my I-pod in one admirably executed movement. The police came in about a minute and were very amused at my playlist (Flogging Molly and Cristobla de Morales' Missa Mille Regretz; I guess they thought that was punishment enough for the two punks). I remember thinking I could take one of the guys, but not two, and that if they had wanted more, I should throw them my wallet and sprint for home. Had this been ten years ago it may have turned out differently because I was as rash at 48 as I was at 28 and not in nearly as good a shape. Brains and common sense can be much better than the false sense of security you get from weapons and fighting skills.

Ra-Ul

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Beauty is that which makes us desperate. - P Valery

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,15:29   

I USE TEH MUGSPLANITORY FILTER

YOU IS BIG ENOUGH TO HAS MY STUFF?
|
-----------NO-----> *bop* YOU CAN HAS NUCKLES SNADWHCIHES!! HAR HAR!
|
YES
|
V
DO YOU LOOK SMART?
|
-----------NO-----> I TELL YOU JEBUS IS WATCHING YOUS.

|
YES
|
V
I FURTHER YOUR NATURALISTICAL WORLDS VIEW WITH MY MONIES. :angry:

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,16:36   

As a youth growing up in a logging town, I got into lots of fights basically for the fun of it. Once I went to college though, the number of people who enjoyed that kind of thing went down drastically. Years later I watched in a kind of bafflement  the growing trend of fights between kids involving weapons. Kind of takes the fun out of it.

My adult experience has been thus far rather more adult.

 
Quote (stevestory@April 03 2008 @ 00:53)

People generally think the world is more dangerous than it really is.


My really good aggression story as an adult really didn't have any aggression in it, but it did illustrate your point steve.

My wife and I were at a cd release party for a friend of ours' band happening at a local nightclub. Loud music, smoky bar, dancing and etc. One of our friends, a viet-nam vet special ops kind of guy, was there too. The funny part of that is that I'm a pretty big guy but our friend isn't. He's like 5'6" or so and not very threatening. He's one of the most inspired artists I've ever met and doesn't look dangerous at all but he knows 100 ways to kill people etc.

Anyway, he walked up to me on the dance floor and pointed out a guy who was acting weird to my wife. My friend thought the guy looked dangerous and wanted me to watch and see if I thought there might be a problem brewing.

I opted for the direct approach. The potentially bad guy did look a little disturbed so I took it seriously. I also didn't want to find out if my artist friend would slip into rambo mode if things got screwy (I don't think he would but it wouldn't be pretty. Even though he's a painter, he practices his martial art stuff for several hours a day still). So when the bad guy sat down in a booth, actually watching my wife, I slipped into the bench next to him, put my arm around him and pointed to my wife saying, "That's my wife right there." I smiled so as not to make any tensions rise but apparently, I'm such a bad assed looking guy I scared the piss out him. Literally. I looked down because he started figeting badly. He pissed himself to the point where it was running down onto the floor in a steady stream.

I stood up to avoid getting pissed on and the guy ran out of the bar. My buddy the army guy watched the whole thing. The really odd part was that he didn't laugh at all. Here I am in shocked and amazed fits of laughter at the poor SOB who pissed himself and my friend was just standing there looking at the door. He laughed later but it took quite a while. I figured that I should make a belt with the moral equivalent of '7 in one blow' inscribed on it.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
Gunthernacus



Posts: 235
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,17:39   

I carry a small pocket knife - good for cheese and apples and the occasional postal package.  It is definitely not a weapon; 1) if I ever need to use a weapon, I want one that doesn't require me to get so close to the target.  2)  It would probably fail on impact, snap shut and lop off my fingers

Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,03:26)
You guys know what kerb crawling is?

Started to ask, then googled:  Wiki on kerb crawling
Then thought, "Oh, curb crawling."

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Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,18:13   

Quote (Gunthernacus @ April 03 2008,15:39)
Quote (Louis @ April 03 2008,03:26)
You guys know what kerb crawling is?

Started to ask, then googled:  Wiki on kerb crawling
Then thought, "Oh, curb crawling."

These fuiners caint spel.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,19:06   

Carrying a weapon is simply not a part of my approach to life.  I've grown up in the suburbs, the safe suburbs.  I don't bring protection to dangerous places, I don't go to them at all.


However I did once slash someone's hand open.  But it wasn't with a knife, it was with a metal ruler and it was in junior high school.  At the time my personality could best be described as "mild".  This made me a popular bully target, because I general I didn't fight back.  However this kid was just screwed around, trying to get me to sword fight with him with these metal rulers we had in class.  I didn't want to, but he kept poking me and poking me with it until I started parrying him with my ruler.

He got more and more aggressive and kept pushing me until the edge of my ruler dug into his hand just right and cut through the skin.  Those rulers did have fairly sharp edges.

He was sent to the nurses office clutching his hand, his last words to me were "if I catch you outside school you're dead" or something to that effect.  But nothing more ever developed of it, he wasn't really that violent, the situation just got out of hand.

Later on in high school he caught up to me in a hallway once and said something about how he used to mess with me in Jr High, I have no idea if this was an attempt for him to gloat over his past or if he was awkwardly trying to make amends, I sort of grinned to myself and wondered if he still had a scar on his hand.  Understand I didn't take pleasure in hurting him, I really did NOT intend to do it, but it served the tool right.  It was unintended but poetic justice.

Incidentally, since I was a massive teacher's pet I never caught any flack from the incident.


Okay, so I'm not a street tough that can intimidate people in bars to the point that they piss themselves and run away.  I can't really say I'm a pacifist either, while I theoretically favor the path of peace I've got a bit of a temper and I'm not likely to be the moderating influence in a potentially violent situation.  It's better that I just don't get into those situations at all.

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2008,19:30   

Quote (Nomad @ April 03 2008,19:06)
Understand I didn't take pleasure in hurting him, I really did NOT intend to do it, but it served the tool right.  It was unintended but poetic justice.


Okay, so I'm not a street tough that can intimidate people in bars to the point that they piss themselves and run away.  I can't really say I'm a pacifist either, while I theoretically favor the path of peace I've got a bit of a temper and I'm not likely to be the moderating influence in a potentially violent situation.  It's better that I just don't get into those situations at all.

I'm a pretty nice guy too. Poetic justice is an apt phrase. Kinda makes me think of the movie 'A Christmas Story'.

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guthrie



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,05:49   

The problem here in the West coast of Scotland, especially GLasgow and Lanarkshire etc, is that cultural change has occured.  In "The good old days", teenagers would fight with their fists, in a kind of socially sanctioned pecking order way.  Nowadays, they'll do that to some extent, but also go out and get drunk and get into fights whilst carrying a knife.  And then kill someone without meaning to.  
Plus people are less willing to take a beating in the first place.  Instead of having a fight, losing, and taking it, they'd rather use a knife first to ensure that they don't lose.
Net result is a very high murder rate amongst 16 to 25's from more deprived areas.

  
BWE



Posts: 1898
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,06:07   

Quote (guthrie @ April 04 2008,05:49)
The problem here in the West coast of Scotland, especially GLasgow and Lanarkshire etc, is that cultural change has occured.  In "The good old days", teenagers would fight with their fists, in a kind of socially sanctioned pecking order way.  Nowadays, they'll do that to some extent, but also go out and get drunk and get into fights whilst carrying a knife.  And then kill someone without meaning to.  
Plus people are less willing to take a beating in the first place.  Instead of having a fight, losing, and taking it, they'd rather use a knife first to ensure that they don't lose.
Net result is a very high murder rate amongst 16 to 25's from more deprived areas.

Yep. The odd part for me about that is if you took an armed kid from today and put them in the unarmed school of the past, they would have been beaten up by a group of people for considering the possibility.

Gun control is a similar thing. I grew up in the country granted but we had zero gun violence. Strange maybe since everyone had guns. No one would have even considered using one as a weapon unless it was on their own property and someone asked for it. I met a few farmers in their fields carrying shotguns asking me to please not use their fields to pick mushrooms. Um.... Would you believe me if I told you I was looking for boletes? I'm pretty sure they even loaded shells with rocksalt and figured they might just have to shoot me if I didn't leave right away. That same farmer would stop and pull your car out of a ditch in the morning though. Sans gun.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,07:18   



Quote
SL: Virtual Dunny, by philosophy_rebel


Edited by Lou FCD on April 04 2008,08:19

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Louis



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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,08:50   

I would be considerably more scared of a weedy seventeen year old street punk with a knife than I would be of a large 30 year old hardened armed robber with a gun.

The seventeen year old is infinitely more likely to kill you.

Louis

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BWE



Posts: 1898
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(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,09:04   

Quote (Louis @ April 04 2008,08:50)
I would be considerably more scared of a weedy seventeen year old street punk with a knife than I would be of a large 30 year old hardened armed robber with a gun.

The seventeen year old is infinitely more likely to kill you.

Louis

1. Knives are different things than guns.

2. 30 year old robbers tend to be strung out.

3. I used a knife in severe conditions professionally for almost 10 years. They don't scare me so much as make me acutely aware of what they are doing. It would depend for me how the kid held it. I still might take it from him and pummel him on GP but I'd have to be prepared to get my forearm cut badly. And I'd have to have a coat.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

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Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2008,09:22   

Quote (BWE @ April 04 2008,15:04)
Quote (Louis @ April 04 2008,08:50)
I would be considerably more scared of a weedy seventeen year old street punk with a knife than I would be of a large 30 year old hardened armed robber with a gun.

The seventeen year old is infinitely more likely to kill you.

Louis

1. Knives are different things than guns.

2. 30 year old robbers tend to be strung out.

3. I used a knife in severe conditions professionally for almost 10 years. They don't scare me so much as make me acutely aware of what they are doing. It would depend for me how the kid held it. I still might take it from him and pummel him on GP but I'd have to be prepared to get my forearm cut badly. And I'd have to have a coat.

All good points.

The only "however" I'll offer is that I've met two hardened 30 ish year old bank robbers and they both seemed like thoroughly decent chaps. Admittedly they didn't have guns at the time! My point is that the kid (or perhaps even a junkie, strung out at any age) is likely to act first then think later (if at all). An older guy might just hesitate.

Although as I am sure we all know it's all entirely dependant on the situation. Generalisation on these matters is, generally speaking*, impossible.

Louis

* LOL I Kill me sometimes. Ok just me then?

P.S. to make one serious point, disarming someone with a knife is indeed very possible, exactly as it is with a gun. Depending on where the gun is.

One of the instructors in Lau Gar I used to have waaaay back in the day taught us a great deal about how to deal with a gun (why I'll never know, this is the UK where if people are armed it's usually with bad breath and slightly sardonic humour). The first lesson started with "If you have a gun to your head, remove if from the bloke holding it and feed it to him. We'll be teaching you that in a minute. If, however, the guy is say across the room with the gun and you cannot reach him before he pulls the trigger, assume this position {kneeling, hand behind head} and say these words 'Yes, sir, what can I do for you, sir?'". He may have been being slightly humourous.

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1of63



Posts: 126
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2008,00:24   

1 phaser (not carried, battery needs replacing)

Thought about Goa'uld staff weapon but they cost an arm and a snake so decided against.  Not really suitable for concealed carry, either.

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guthrie



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 05 2008,04:31   

Quote (BWE @ April 04 2008,09:04)
1. Knives are different things than guns.

2. 30 year old robbers tend to be strung out.

3. I used a knife in severe conditions professionally for almost 10 years. They don't scare me so much as make me acutely aware of what they are doing. It would depend for me how the kid held it. I still might take it from him and pummel him on GP but I'd have to be prepared to get my forearm cut badly. And I'd have to have a coat.

I thought 30 year old robbers would be more professional, as in its a simple business transaction whereby you (or the bank) pay them to go away.  Whereas the teenager, being less experienced, is less predictable.  The 30 year old is more likely to know the consequences of whatever actions they takeso be less precipitate, but also will give you less chances to be a hero.  There are and were quite a few professional bank and post office robbing gangs here in the UK, generally made up of people who were older hardened criminals.  They generally didn't hurt people except of course scaring them greatly.

  
Duvenoy



Posts: 6
Joined: Mar. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2008,08:05   

I carry, legally, a S&W Airweight, .38 spl, that replaced a very old and now retired S&W Chief's Special. I have never fired either in anger, but shoot them a lot on the range and in occasional, pick-up, snubnose (belly gun) matches with some of our local fuzz, et al. Five bucks in the hat, winner take all.

My knife is just a pocket tool, not a weapon, and my cane is merely a cane -- I'm old and a little crippled and need it to walk. With any luck at all, my shoot will never be necessary.

doov

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It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.
-- Giordano Bruno

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 21 2008,15:54   

Don't know how to answer.

When I was a soldier I carried several weapons (when told to do so) but other than that I have (almost)* never carried weapons.

I do sometimes have a blade but it is a tool rather than a weapon. I was brought up to think of weapons as the tools of cowards, unless officially required to be carried.


*This refers to an incident when I was about 7 years old. I was stupid and my mother chastised me.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 21 2008,16:14   



 
Quote
Pen and Paper, by athena


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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Steverino



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(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,18:02   

I always carry a:  Sandwhich!

what?....no one else???.....I'm not giving ya any!

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khan



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(Permalink) Posted: April 22 2008,18:52   

Well I'm only sixteen
I've got a ruptured spleen
And I always carry a purse

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That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

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