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  Topic: ID theory influenced ISU tenure vote< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Jason Spaceman



Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,00:43   

Quote
Ames, Ia. - Iowa State University professor Guillermo Gonzalez's support of the theory of intelligent design damaged his prospects for tenure long before his peers voted on the job promotion, according to e-mails from at least one professor in his department to those who decided Gonzalez's tenure request.

The e-mails were provided to The Des Moines Register by ISU officials in response to a request for public records pertaining to the tenure case.

The disclosure of the e-mails is contrary to what ISU officials emphasized after Gonzalez, an assistant professor in physics and astronomy, learned that his university colleagues had voted to deny his bid for tenure.

"I think Gonzalez should know that some of the faculty in his department are not going to count his ID work as a plus for tenure," physics and astronomy professor Bruce Harmon wrote in an e-mail dated November 2005 - a year before the department voted on the tenure case.

"Quite the opposite," Harmon added.

In May, Eli Rosenberg, chairman of the ISU Department of Physics and Astronomy, told the Register that Gonzalez's tenure denial was "not political" and that journalists were wrong to suggest that Gonzalez's tenure review was based on anything other than his scientific qualifications.

Later that month, however, Rosenberg told World Magazine, a Christian publication, that Gonzalez's book, called "The Privileged Planet," played a role in the tenure decision-making process. But the book was not an overriding factor, Rosenberg added.


Read it here.

   
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,01:03   

Quote (Jason Spaceman @ Dec. 03 2007,00:43)
Quote
Ames, Ia. - Iowa State University professor Guillermo Gonzalez's support of the theory of intelligent design damaged his prospects for tenure long before his peers voted on the job promotion, according to e-mails from at least one professor in his department to those who decided Gonzalez's tenure request.

The e-mails were provided to The Des Moines Register by ISU officials in response to a request for public records pertaining to the tenure case.

The disclosure of the e-mails is contrary to what ISU officials emphasized after Gonzalez, an assistant professor in physics and astronomy, learned that his university colleagues had voted to deny his bid for tenure.

"I think Gonzalez should know that some of the faculty in his department are not going to count his ID work as a plus for tenure," physics and astronomy professor Bruce Harmon wrote in an e-mail dated November 2005 - a year before the department voted on the tenure case.

"Quite the opposite," Harmon added.

In May, Eli Rosenberg, chairman of the ISU Department of Physics and Astronomy, told the Register that Gonzalez's tenure denial was "not political" and that journalists were wrong to suggest that Gonzalez's tenure review was based on anything other than his scientific qualifications.

Later that month, however, Rosenberg told World Magazine, a Christian publication, that Gonzalez's book, called "The Privileged Planet," played a role in the tenure decision-making process. But the book was not an overriding factor, Rosenberg added.


Read it here.

I don't see anything wrong with that statement.  His "ID work" was not peer-reviewed.  No untenured science professor who spends a lot of time on popular science stuff will have it count in their favor.  "Quite the opposite," no matter what the subject

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Doc Bill



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Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,01:03   

Right.  And we're all waiting with baited breath to see GG's tenure file.  What did he do that would have earned him tenure.

Do tell.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,04:16   

There's an issue here that the IDers will miss but genuinely does need to change in academia: public engagement/public outreach being valued as part of a scientist's job. I know a few academics who engage in it personally, and every one of them waited until they were established to do it, and not just because of the immense hard work needed to get established. It's simply not valued and often seen as a detriment. That seriously needs to change.

As for GG, well if he did everything needed to get tenure but his ID stuff was the only problem (which we know was not the case) then he's got at least the beginnings of a case. As it stands however, this wasn't the situation (from what I've read of it), he hadn't met the standards needed for tenure on a couple of counts. That's sad, but it happens to a lot of aspiring academics, nothing prevents him from trying again.

However, I can't imagine that if he were a border line case being a known advocate of known pseudoscience would help him at all. Sorry IDCists, but your bunkum just ain't science, people who promote it are rightly chastised and rightly told to sort their shit out. Before you whine, yes, we know you don't get that. Being a flat earth advocate is not conducive to becoming a professional geologist. Try to get that into your head somewhere. If the "science" you advocate is ALREADY known to be decades/centuries old, well refuted nonsense you aren't exactly in a position to cut the mustard at a research institute are you?

Louis

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Bye.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,06:03   

The DI's combative attitude is based upon the presumption that "intelligent design" creationism should be treated either as a positive contribution, or at least that it not be treated as a negative in evaluating a record of scholarly activity.

Phillip E. Johnson used to call the activism he was engaged in as "legitimating the question", that "intelligent design" had to be established as a legitimate field of intellectual inquiry.

We now know that this entire strategy was part of a sham designed to insert religiously motivated antievolution into the public school curriculum. "Intelligent design" creationism is not a legitimate field of scholarly activity. It is a political effort to evade or overturn current constitutional prohibitions against antievolution in service of a narrow religious doctrine.

"Intelligent design" activity, as such, is disreputable and unscholarly; it certainly should not be viewed as helpful to those documenting a history of scholarly activity. It should be considered just as negatively as other activity aimed at accomplishing an unconstitutional outcome.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,06:52   

The DI (and their ignorant followers) seem to be focusing on only one of the reasons for GG's negative tenure decision. As a person who has sat through too many tenure/promotion committee meetings, and voted several dozen times in tenure promotion decisions in a science department, I think it is important to point out that the decisions are never decided on just one parameter.

No one is pretending that opinions about a candidate's research are irrelevant. It is not surprising that GG's work on behalf of pseudoscience would be mentioned in departmental documents; he certainly highlighted it himself. But it is just ONE factor in a multi-factorial decision. Proving that it harmed his chances, whether fairly or unfairly, will be futile if other factors are still very negative. And that appears to be the case, from my examination of the credentials presented to date.

He published very few peer-reviewed articles based on his research at ISU. In tenure decisions in my department, we ignore articles from a person's post-doctoral work or graduate work, even if they are published during the tenure evaluation period. We are primarily interested in evaluating the potential of a candidate for generating significant output in the environment where they might be working for the rest of their career. So counting articles, as the DI is doing, is a sham. How many of those articles came from his independent research at ISU?  Damn few. And that is a huge strike against him.

He also generated very little outside funding during his candidacy period at ISU, in a field where significant outside funding is needed for productivity. Again, grants obtained prior to the ISU appointment are irrelevant. The department (and the dean) needs to see fund-generating potential in the environment where the person will be working for perhaps the rest of his/her career. Another huge strike against him.

The other factors in our decisions include teaching competence and "service". Teaching competence can be demonstrated in various ways; different institutions have different metrics for this.

Service is evaluated at the departmental level (e.g., departmental committee work), the university level (e.g. involvement in work outside the department or college), and local, national, and international levels (e.g., involvement with scientific societies, granting agencies, journals). All successful candidates need to demonstrate competence or experience at all of these levels. I have seen no evidence for GG in this regard, so I won't comment about that. It is possible that he tried to use his national work with the DI as evidence here, but that might be a two-edged sword, since the DI is NOT a scientific organization.

But the point is that ALL of these areas need to be addressed. Failure in one of them is probably going to doom you. Failure in two of them, as seems to be the case with GG, is impossible to recover from.

So pointing to a couple of emails, and pretending that these comments were the kiss of death for this decision, is to ignore the realities of the process. Par for the course for the Disingenuous Institute, however.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
CCP



Posts: 25
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2007,07:23   

Right. Plus what we learn from this is an influence on one faculty member's vote--a very minor role in the decision-making process.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,09:46   

So will one of you sciency college guys answer me this.  What kind of future does Gonzales have now that he's made himself the IDC poster boy victim and the details of his loony ideas are plastered all over north america?

He's out the closet, advocates teaching pseudoscience, denied tenure, is considered a crank, what does the future hold for this guy?

Will he become Dembski's research assistant at some two bit bible school or?

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,10:03   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 04 2007,09:46)
Will he become Dembski's research assistant at some two bit bible school..?

That would be a good bet, but without the Dembski bit.

There are plenty of two-bit bible schools with "science" departments. If you don't care about doing research (and it appears that describes GG pretty well), you can make a living at those places. He can also make money on the lecture circuit as a martyr, show his video, flog his book, write another book about his martyrdom, etc. There are plenty of rubes out there, and some of them can even read books.

I'm not losing any sleep over his prospects.  ;)

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,13:16   

Well being the gigantic softy I am, I hope he wakes up, smells the coffee and gets back into research.

I doubt this will happen. My guess (for guess it is) is that he is being manipulated by the DI etc and is under the martyrdom spell. He can correct this, but it's awfully hard. As long as he is under it, academia being a fantastically unforgiving profession, he'll simply get refused interviews I would imagine. No one wants a known liability on the staff and at the moment he is a liability. If he was tenured as he is he could be very damaging to a department's reputation and scientific output.

Personally, as I said, I hope he gets out from under the DI spell because it is doing him no favours as a scientist. As a money making lifelong victim and martyr in the culture wars however...

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,13:51   

It's been pointed out that once GG became a creationist, he basically stopped doing research. My suspicion is that once he became a born again, he realized he didn't want to do the kind of work any longer that would get him tenure, and so he just kind of let his freak flag fly after that. In other words, he probably knew full well he'd be in big trouble once his 7 years were up, but couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it. So he probably basically planned all this, and decided to play this whole martyr game when the time came. He MUST realize that no real university would touch him with a 10-foot cattle prod now.

Anyway, I suspect in a year or two Liberty, EbolaBiola, or Pensacola Christian College will find a position for him. He'll be on the Wingnut Welfare gravy train for a loooong time.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,14:04   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 04 2007,14:51)
It's been pointed out that once GG became a creationist, he basically stopped doing research. My suspicion is that once he became a born again, he realized he didn't want to do the kind of work any longer that would get him tenure, and so he just kind of let his freak flag fly after that. In other words, he probably knew full well he'd be in big trouble once his 7 years were up, but couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it. So he probably basically planned all this, and decided to play this whole martyr game when the time came. He MUST realize that no real university would touch him with a 10-foot cattle prod now.

Anyway, I suspect in a year or two Liberty, EbolaBiola, or Pensacola Christian College will find a position for him. He'll be on the Wingnut Welfare gravy train for a loooong time.

I'm rooting for Blow Job U for personal reasons.

Dr. Bob's House of Horrors doesn't get mentioned enough around here, and you guys are slacking in giving it it's fair share of Smackdown.

(Consider it a personal favor to me to lambaste that freak show at every available opportunity.  Thanks.)

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,14:07   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 04 2007,14:04)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 04 2007,14:51)
It's been pointed out that once GG became a creationist, he basically stopped doing research. My suspicion is that once he became a born again, he realized he didn't want to do the kind of work any longer that would get him tenure, and so he just kind of let his freak flag fly after that. In other words, he probably knew full well he'd be in big trouble once his 7 years were up, but couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it. So he probably basically planned all this, and decided to play this whole martyr game when the time came. He MUST realize that no real university would touch him with a 10-foot cattle prod now.

Anyway, I suspect in a year or two Liberty, EbolaBiola, or Pensacola Christian College will find a position for him. He'll be on the Wingnut Welfare gravy train for a loooong time.

I'm rooting for Blow Job U for personal reasons.

Dr. Bob's House of Horrors doesn't get mentioned enough around here, and you guys are slacking in giving it it's fair share of Smackdown.

(Consider it a personal favor to me to lambaste that freak show at every available opportunity.  Thanks.)

You know, I KNEW there was a fourth fundie madrassah that I was forgetting, but I couldn't remember the name!

Anyway, I apologize on behalf of your alma mater. GG's CV is probably already down there as we speak.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,14:10   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 04 2007,15:07)
You know, I KNEW there was a fourth fundie madrassah that I was forgetting, but I couldn't remember the name!

Anyway, I apologize on behalf of your alma mater. GG's CV is probably already down there as we speak.

You're a good friend, Arden.

Thanks.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
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Doc Bill



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(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,15:04   

And after all that, press conferences, press releases and much ballyhoo the DI succeeded in stirring up exactly what?

Nothing.

Britney Spears ran three stop signs and generated 1,000 news articles.

The DI managed about 7 articles, excluding their own.  Lots of smoke, no fire.  Dog bites man.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,15:54   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 04 2007,16:04)
And after all that, press conferences, press releases and much ballyhoo the DI succeeded in stirring up exactly what?

Nothing.

Britney Spears ran three stop signs and generated 1,000 news articles.

The DI managed about 7 articles, excluding their own.  Lots of smoke, no fire.  Dog bites man.

Geez, don't give 'em any ideas, Doc.

I really don't think I want to see any of them flashing their junk as they exit their limos.

Just sayin'.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
carlsonjok



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Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,16:00   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 04 2007,15:54)
Geez, don't give 'em any ideas, Doc.

I really don't think I want to see any of them flashing their junk as they exit their limos.

Just sayin'.



EDIT: Grrr.  An applicable LOLCat, but can't be linked directly to.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richard Simons



Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,16:33   

Quote
And we're all waiting with baited breath

Whenever I see this misspelling I think of the cat that ate some cheese then sat by the mousehole with baited breath. :D

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All sweeping statements are wrong.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,17:09   

I'll claim "street theatre," rather than admit misspelling.

I mean, anyone can write "bated breath."  Boring.

Baited breath, however, is arty, edgy, hip, sushi.

However, in the end, I am stung by your ad homonym attack.

  
Dr.GH



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Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,17:48   

Quote
What kind of future does Gonzales have now that he's made himself the IDC poster boy victim and the details of his loony ideas are plastered all over north america?


Blow up a ballon, and draw a picture of GG on it.  Put it in the toilet and flush over and over.  That is what his chances look like.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
J-Dog



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Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,18:27   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Dec. 04 2007,17:48)
Quote
What kind of future does Gonzales have now that he's made himself the IDC poster boy victim and the details of his loony ideas are plastered all over north america?


Blow up a ballon, and draw a picture of GG on it.  Put it in the toilet and flush over and over.  That is what his chances look like.

It won't be as bad as all that is it?  Just think of all the bake sale goodies he will be able to munch on as the DI sends him on his GG Martyrdom Tour™.  They might even let him keep a percentage of the DI DVD and book sale proceeds as he travels around the country and fleeces the rubes.   I'm thinking he'll do pretty darned well in KS.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,19:14   

He could probably work at a community college.

   
Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,19:20   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 04 2007,20:14)
He could probably work at a community college.

...in Texas.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,19:26   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Dec. 04 2007,19:20)
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 04 2007,20:14)
He could probably work at a community college.

...in Texas.

He coulda joined the DI but they gave his position to Michael Medved.  :(

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,19:59   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 04 2007,13:51)
It's been pointed out that once GG became a creationist, he basically stopped doing research. My suspicion is that once he became a born again, he realized he didn't want to do the kind of work any longer that would get him tenure, and so he just kind of let his freak flag fly after that. In other words, he probably knew full well he'd be in big trouble once his 7 years were up, but couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it. So he probably basically planned all this, and decided to play this whole martyr game when the time came. He MUST realize that no real university would touch him with a 10-foot cattle prod now.

Anyway, I suspect in a year or two Liberty, EbolaBiola, or Pensacola Christian College will find a position for him. He'll be on the Wingnut Welfare gravy train for a loooong time.

I don't know the GG biography.  He converted as an adult?  After he was a scientist?

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,20:12   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Dec. 04 2007,19:59)

I don't know the GG biography.  He converted as an adult?  After he was a scientist?

Actually, I have no idea when he converted, but it appears that a few years into his career at Iowa, he quit doing mainstream anstronomy and abruptly switched to ID-related work only from then on out. While that might not mean he converted then, it does look like he made a deliberate 180-degree turn. Given how disastrous it seems to have been for his career, a sudden conversion experience sounds very plausible.

I guess it can also explain his terrible record of getting grant money, in that he assumed no one would want to fund work showing how miraculous it is that rainwater fits perfectly into its puddle.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
JAM



Posts: 517
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2007,21:08   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 04 2007,20:12)
Actually, I have no idea when he converted, but it appears that a few years into his career at Iowa,...

HEY! Please don't refer to GG's employer as "Iowa," as it suggests that you are talking about the University of Iowa, not Iowa State (aka Moo U).

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:16   

Rejoice!

I love GG's suicide pact with the DI. True he'll be their poster boy for IDC persecution, hearing that drum beat over and over and over will get old.  But he'll never have a legit job again and the DI will lose again.

I bet you $1 that after the university says no way in hell will they grant him tenure the DI will back down on their legal threats.  Remember these are the same dunces that threatened to sue PBS over the NOVA teachers guide.

What dunces.  I love it so!

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
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