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  Topic: How Can a Conscious Human...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 30 2006,23:47   

be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells?

  
Tim



Posts: 40
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,02:51   

The whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts. :)

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,03:23   

Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47)
be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells?

I don't know.

Maybe it is an emergence quality.

What do you think?

  
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,04:40   

Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47)
be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells?

Provide me with a rigorous definition of consciousness and then we can talk.

   
PuckSR



Posts: 314
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,06:57   

did you just discover philosophy thordaddy?

This is like the 10th time you have posed one of these "classic" philosophical riddles.

How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?

Come on...this stuff is a lot of fun to think about...but it doesnt have any bearing on science....

I can point you to several lively discussions on these topics, some of them are several thousand years old....

  
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,07:04   

Hey guyz, how can a computer add numbers if individual transistors cannot. I mean, am i rite?

   
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,07:35   

How do you know each cell is NOT conscious?  You just jumped to that conclusion.  Have you tried listening to a single neuron?  I mean, really listening.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,10:48   

Stephen Elliot,

Honestly, I have no idea, but it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective.

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,11:41   

thordaddy,

What is your definition of consciousness again?

  
PuckSR



Posts: 314
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,11:42   

Quote
Honestly, I have no idea, but it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective.


Well... i think the point has already been made that it is a quality of the collective ability.

Transistors are an excellent analog...

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,12:56   

cogzoid,

My definition is the one in the dictionary that could be summed up as self-awareness.

  
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,13:00   

Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,18:56)
cogzoid,

My definition is the one in the dictionary that could be summed up as self-awareness.

If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition?

   
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,22:08   

Quote (Drew Headley @ Mar. 31 2006,19:00)
If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition?

Hey Drew,

Interesting link. Damned if I have an answer though.

  
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2006,22:50   

Quote (thordaddy @ Mar. 31 2006,05:47)
be comprised of 100,000 billion unconscious cells?

And how can a conscious human be comprised of 10^22 unconscious molecules?  :p

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 01 2006,01:10   

Drew Headley asks,

Quote
If your definition is self-awareness then do you think that this costitutes a consciousness? If not, why and how would you further refine your definition


It may, but it doesn't matter to me because consciousness ALONE does not define human life.  This only poses a problem for those that determine and define human life based on consciousness.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,01:15   

Quote (PuckSR @ Mar. 31 2006,12:57)
How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?

That's what I was thinking.

Ah dude, could, like, god make a burrito so hot that, like, he couldn't even eat it?

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,03:37   

Quote
it would seem that some of our cells are either conscious or create consciousness as a collective.
I would say answer B.
Quote
it doesn't matter to me because consciousness ALONE does not define human life.  This only poses a problem for those that determine and define human life based on consciousness.
I dont think there are many people who define human life based soley on consciousness.

  
Seven Popes



Posts: 190
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,04:28   

PuckSR
Quote
Transistors are an excellent analog...

Heeeee! Bad pun.

--------------
Cave ab homine unius libri - Beware of anyone who has just one book.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,16:55   

Re "How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?"

Relative to which source of gravity? Lifting on Earth would be a bunch easier than lifting off a neutron star.

One consideration that comes to mind here, though, is that there is an upper limit to the mass that a stone could possess - if it's own mass is strong enough to collapse it's molecules, then it ain't a stone anymore. :)

Henry

  
Caledonian



Posts: 48
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,17:19   

Quote (Tim @ Mar. 31 2006,08:51)
The whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts. :)

No.  The properties of the sum of the parts are not equal to the sum of the properties of the parts.

Why do people always get this wrong?

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 03 2006,18:20   

Quote (Henry J @ April 03 2006,21:55)
Re "How about this...can God create a stone so heavy even he cannot lift it?"

Relative to which source of gravity? Lifting on Earth would be a bunch easier than lifting off a neutron star.

One consideration that comes to mind here, though, is that there is an upper limit to the mass that a stone could possess - if it's own mass is strong enough to collapse it's molecules, then it ain't a stone anymore. :)

Henry

The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"

EDIT: Oh shoot, GCT beat me to it...

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,01:06   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 03 2006,23:20)
The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"

EDIT: Oh shoot, GCT beat me to it...

Ha!  If you weren't so busy burning down churches, you might have had a chance.

  
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,01:18   

Quote
The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"


Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees.

Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:22   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ April 04 2006,06:18)
Quote
The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"


Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees.

Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry.

Hey, if Our Lord wants to use spherical geometry, certainly none of us are in a position to stop Him.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:26   

Quote

The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"
I started involuntarily laughing when I heard that. I've never heard that before.

   
Henry J



Posts: 4565
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:35   

Re "Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees.

Edit: and no he can't use spherical geometry."

Hyperbolic geometry, instead! ;)

Henry

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,04:39   

Quote (stevestory @ April 04 2006,09:26)
Quote

The version I always liked was "could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it?"
I started involuntarily laughing when I heard that. I've never heard that before.

I confess I ripped it off from the Simpsons.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Drew Headley



Posts: 152
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,05:34   

This thread is now the official annoying philosophical questions thread.

This sentence is not true.

   
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,07:54   

Quote
Re "Also, could he draw a triangle where the internal angles don't add up to 180 degrees.
not enough information, do you mean degrees Kelvin or Celcius?

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,08:21   

Quote (steve_h @ April 04 2006,12:54)
do you mean degrees Kelvin...

Um, I thought we were talking about triangles, not photon energy?

  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,12:41   

Quote (GCT @ April 04 2006,13:21)

Um, I thought we were talking about triangles, not photon energy?

They are the same thing: http://www.google.ch/search?q=photon+energy+triangle - 351,000 hits.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,12:52   

Quote (steve_h @ April 04 2006,17:41)
Quote (GCT @ April 04 2006,13:21)

Um, I thought we were talking about triangles, not photon energy?

They are the same thing: http://www.google.ch/search?q=photon+energy+triangle - 351,000 hits.

Likewise, googling the phrases "italian language" and "spanish language" together generates 1.59 million hits. I can't see how this could mean anything other than that Italian and Spanish are the same language.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 04 2006,13:43   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ April 04 2006,17:52)

Likewise, googling the phrases "italian language" and "spanish language" together generates 1.59 million hits. I can't see how this could mean anything other than that Italian and Spanish are the same language.

Well duh!  This whole spanish-italian differentiation is just a scam to sell spanish-italian dictionaries to the unwary.    

However,  I seem to have taken us off-topic. Apologies to TD, and I will limit such proofs to the UD thread in future.

  
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