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The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 15 2005,15:58   

O.K. Dean, here's your chance. Please explain how:

 1) my citation of The Color of Crime proves that I agree with Jared Taylor's views, especially when I've made my own views perfectly clear on several occasions;
2) the citation is inappropriate, especially when it supports one of my main complaints against most cross-national studies, i.e. that they confound race and religion, driving the very conclusions that they're trying to prove;
3) Jared Taylor's political beliefs render him unable to multiply or divide government figures; and
4) if Jared's study is transparently worthless, nobody can refute it.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2005,03:59   

Such simple questions, Dean, yet I'm still waiting for your reply. Why is that? And by the way, anyone's free to jump in with a relevant opinion. I know some of you gentlemen have degrees in math and statistics, and I'd like to profit from your expertise. Julie? Elsberry? Rosenhouse? Wein? Bueller?......Bueller?.......

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2005,08:24   

It appears that Dean's not going to defend his insinuations, so I guess it falls to the rest of y'all. Here are some interesting excerpts from John Derbyshire's new piece [all italics due to yours truly]:
Quote
Well, very interesting things are happening on the British (and European — but I'll stick with Britain) Far Right.  The most interesting is, they have dropped antisemitism.  On a word-association test with "Far Right," a lot of people — including, I think, most of my NR colleagues — would come up with "antisemitism" as a first response.  This is now seriously out of date.  In Britain, the old street-fighting, Jew-baiting National Front has morphed into a collar-and-tie party named the BNP — that is, British National Party.  Nick Griffin, the BNP head, has been conducting a purge of Stalinesque ruthlessness against the old antisemitic National Front types.  FrontPageMag's Robert Locke tells the story here.  All the BNP's xenophobic propaganda is now concentrated against Muslims.  Jews are OK, on the principle that my enemy's enemy is my friend.

(I note en passant that Jared Taylor, who runs the white-nationalist American Renaissance magazine and website, is way ahead of the game here.  For years Jared has been responding to questions about what he thinks of Jews with a cheery: “They look white to me!”)  

This stuff bears watching.  The Far Right may not be your cup of tea; but they're out there, and with intelligent leadership, a tailwind of economic disgruntlement, and the dawning realization among white people in the West that they have, by foolish policies, made themselves into a minority in their own countries, outfits like the BNP might very well become a great force in public affairs in the 21st century.

Quote
Israel has now pretty much given up on the Palestinians.  The path forward (or Forward) is one of consolidation:  establishing well-defined borders, marking them with impenetrable barriers, and leaving the Palestinians to do whatever they #### well please.  The implication here is that the West Bank Israeli settlements, those that can’t be incorporated within the borders, will have to be abandoned.  Sharon is not quite ready to say this out loud yet, but it’s implicit in everything he’s doing.  It’s quite a turnaround for Sharon, who once upon a time was Mister Settlements.  Israel doesn’t need a Mister Settlements, though, she needs a Mister Borders, and that’s where Sharon is positioning himself.

By the way, John refers to the White Nationalist movement as the "Looney Right", so I don't think he's very sympathetic to the likes of Taylor, either.
 And Mr. Dawbyshuh, sir, do watch out for those bright, cute, Hapa children, willya? I've been told that those "Jewish" and "Italian" kids get a little resentful at conspicuous displays of academic success. :(

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 20 2005,08:00   

You forgot to paste your image on this thread, Dean. Now why would that be? It couldn't possibly be that you're afraid of losing another debate, could it?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Sheikh Mahandi



Posts: 47
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2005,06:44   

In an earlier post you asked for a refutation of Jared Taylors "The Colour of Crime", please follow this link which questions the reliability of JT's analysis in light of questionable statistical practices -

Southern Poverty Law Center : Intelligence Report

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"Love is in the air, everywhere I look around,.....Love is in the air, every sight and every sound,......"

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2005,07:47   

Quote
In an earlier post you asked for a refutation of Jared Taylors "The Colour of Crime", please follow this link which questions the reliability of JT's analysis in light of questionable statistical practices -


 Thank you, Mr. Mahandi; already you're proving your value to this board. Yes, I've seen that criticism, as well as Tim Wise's thoughtful reply. Unfortunately, both sources are refuting the earler, less sophisticated version of the report. As the excerpts I've quoted on other threads make clear, Taylor did attempt to account for SES and profiling in the new edition, and still found a substantial discrepancy in crime rates. I also found evidence that poverty stricken whites outperform wealthy black students on the SAT, which would be hard to explain under the SES determinant model. Also, why do Asians commit fewer violent crimes than whites? I find this just as puzzling as Jared "Squeal like a pig!" Taylor does.  :D   I also find the critic's avoidance of Crime very troubling. But if you uncover any new critiques, let me know.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Sheikh Mahandi



Posts: 47
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2005,08:12   

Quote
why do Asians commit fewer violent crimes than whites?


Is this strictly true? In the USA perhaps, and Europe as a whole, however, there are exceptions even to this "rule" - as an example a couple of years there were the Bradford riots, now admittedly there was a great deal of provocation from the BNP, and shameful inaction by the local police force, but a great deal of violence did occur by "Asian" (in this case Indian / Pakistani) youths. There are also the examples of Chinese Triads, Japanese Yakuza, and in Russia Siberian mafia. In addition to these there are irregular outbreaks of violence on the Indian sub-continent, along with more generalised banditry, in the South China sea piracy remains a problem, need I go on?

It woudl seem that the oft-quoted phrase - "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" still has validity.

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"Love is in the air, everywhere I look around,.....Love is in the air, every sight and every sound,......"

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2006,12:19   

- I think you got you answer Shadey Paley - but if you want more - my response is over here:

Welcome to Na-na-ia!

I've even invited a playmate for you!

You might want to check out the 'This is what happens when things are fairly presented thread' - I'll be waiting in Na-na-ia if you want to reply.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2006,08:50   

The Yenta wrote:
Quote
I think you got you answer Shadey Paley

 Yes. And maybe some day it will involve the study I actually cited, not that I'm holding my breath.
Quote
but if you want more - my response is over here:

 Seen it, not impressed. Look, if you want me to come over and play, you'll have to do three things:

1) Answer these questions:
Quote
Please explain how:

1) my citation of The Color of Crime proves that I agree with Jared Taylor's views, especially when I've made my own views perfectly clear on several occasions;
2) the citation is inappropriate, especially when it supports one of my main complaints against most cross-national studies, i.e. that they confound race and religion, driving the very conclusions that they're trying to prove;
3) Jared Taylor's political beliefs render him unable to multiply or divide government figures; and
4) if Jared's study is transparently worthless, nobody can refute it.

2) Stop misrepresenting my political beliefs, i.e. that I support apartheid, white nationalism, or any legal code that discriminates against racial, religious, or ideological minorities. I do not, and have made myself perfectly clear on this. In fact, I don't even support your Jim Crow affirmative action policies. You do know that quotas harm asians more than whites, nu? Don't make such a tsimmes out my opinions when your own beliefs encourage racial discrimination.
3)Retract your demonstably false charges that the KKK inspired my ideas.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Sheikh Mahandi



Posts: 47
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2006,02:11   

I seem to recall a criticism of Jared Taylors statistics, which cited not only the use of flawed sampling to produce skewed results, but also the following basic failures of logic and reasoning -
The statistics used deal with incarceration rates, rather than crime rates per se, thus - If blacks are more likely to be arrested, and if they are more likely to be convicted, and they receive longer sentences, then they will form a disproportionate segment of any prison population. Lets review the conditions one at a time -
(a) If blacks are more likely to be arrested.
If a number of groups A, B, C, D. etc commit crimes at equal rates (say 1% of total population) yet the arrest rates are 10% of criminals for groups A, C, D against 30% of criminals for group B, then it appears that group B contains as many criminals as A+C+D, which is not a valid conclusion.
(b) If blacks are more likely to be convicted.
From a we have an arrest group of 50% A,C,D. 50% B, if the conviction rate is 10% for A,C,D but 30% for B, then B as a conviction rate now outnumbers A+C+D.
© If blacks are more likely to receive longer sentences.
If we take as an example groups A,C,D receive average 10 year sentences, group B with an average of 15 years, then any study of incarceration will give the prima facia appearance of group B being more crime-prone, however lets assign some values an run through (a) (b) and ©.
Keeping it simple, if we have 1,000,000 for all groups, then the "criminal" population for each at 1% would be 10,000. For A/C/D the capture rate gives 1000 per group, 3,000 in total. For B the capture rate gives 3000. The conviction rate gives an even greater disparaty of 100 for A/C/D and 900 fo B. Now if © is also taken into account then over 10 years A/C/D is 900 (100 have been released) B is now 9000 with none released (longer sentencing).  
To summarise then a straight consideration of incarceration rates without consideration of other contributing factors can produce misleading results very easily.

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"Love is in the air, everywhere I look around,.....Love is in the air, every sight and every sound,......"

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2006,09:48   

Sheikh Mahandi wrote:
Quote
I seem to recall a criticism of Jared Taylors statistics, which cited not only the use of flawed sampling to produce skewed results, but also the following basic failures of logic and reasoning -

 If Jared's statistics are flawed, blame the U.S. Department of Justice, because that's where most of his figures are coming from.
Quote
The statistics used deal with incarceration rates, rather than crime rates per se, thus - If blacks are more likely to be arrested, and if they are more likely to be convicted, and they receive longer sentences, then they will form a disproportionate segment of any prison population.

Yes, the profiling and sentencing bias argument. First, that premise is highly dubious (see my previous citations as well). Second, Jared uses victimisation studies like the NCVS to address part of this problem. Third, why should it be assumed that poverty is independent from culture? It seems to me that culture helps determine socioeconomic status. You can't test liberal models by assuming their truth a priori. Fourth, my major point is that these extra factors confound the original thesis, i.e. that religion causes crime. How can you test for one variable (religion) by introducing other variables (differences in racial and ethnic cultures, which are widely acknowledged by liberals when it suits them: "Boy those white people are so stiff, cold, devious, and boring. They really need to be more black!")?
  Look, any criminologist that did a study like Taylor's and came to the "wrong" conclusion would be sacked immediately, or shunned, assaulted and intimidated if he couldn't be fired. In many countries he would even be fined or imprisoned. Thus, people like Jared fill the void. I don't like it, but I didn't cause it, so I can only use what's available. Don't like Jared? Get in line; I don't care for him myself. But if you want to refute him, you'll have to address his real argument, or do your own analysis.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2006,11:23   

Quote
If Jared's statistics are flawed, blame the U.S. Department of Justice


- there you go Paley.. mixing up data and statistics.

Anyway I stand by my assertion that you're a racist.

You meet the OED definition of a racist because of your clear statements that you would discriminate on grounds of race ( in the case of immigration to the US for example).

You ran away from that challenge on the 'Pandas' site - so there it stands, unrefuted, and unrefutable - unless you are prepared to withdraw all the racist statements you have made?

By the way - I'm not responsible for your 'Jim Crow Laws' affirmitive action or anything else - I'm a Brit remember.
If your jokes about the 'K^K' and 'wizards and masters' backfire on you - I'm not to blame.

You should be more embarrassed by the fact that you pretend to be a scientist yet you clearly didn't know what a 'degree Kelvin' was.

Maybe you are less extreme than those guys but you're certainly playing in the same ballpark - don't play with that stuff if you don't want to get dirty.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2006,08:44   

The Yenta Wrote:
Quote
- there you go Paley.. mixing up data and statistics.

I'm afraid the confusion is on your part, lad:
Quote
Descriptive statistics is a branch of statistics that denotes any of the many techniques used to summarize a set of data. In a sense, we are using the data on members of a set to describe the set. The techniques are commonly classified as:

Graphical description in which we use graphs to summarize data.
Tabular description in which we use tables to summarize data.
Summary statistics in which we calculate certain values to summarize data.
In general, statistical data can be described as a list of subjects or units and the data associated with each of them.

Quote
You meet the OED definition of a racist because of your clear statements that you would discriminate on grounds of race ( in the case of immigration to the US for example).

Ummm, Yenta, Northeast Asians are not a race, the Jews are not a race, East Indians are not a race: they are ethnic groups, and each group is concentrated in a particular nation: China, Japan, Korea, India, Israel. If I wanted to use racial classifications, I would have used the terms "Asian" and "Caucasian". Yet I avoided the broader racial categories, choosing to focus on nationalities instead. Why? Because each of these groups assimilate into Western society. Many of their racial cohorts do not.
Quote
You ran away from that challenge on the 'Pandas' site - so there it stands, unrefuted, and unrefutable - unless you are prepared to withdraw all the racist statements you have made?

 What racist statements? That some nationalities assimilate better into Western society? That some cultures are not suited to developed societies? If that's racist, then the truth is racist (shrug).
Quote
By the way - I'm not responsible for your 'Jim Crow Laws' affirmitive action or anything else - I'm a Brit remember.

Simple question: Is affirmative action racist? Please give a straight answer. And if it isn't, why not? If it is, then why aren't you jumping on American liberals?
Quote
If your jokes about the 'K^K' and 'wizards and masters' backfire on you - I'm not to blame.

You should be more embarrassed by the fact that you pretend to be a scientist yet you clearly didn't know what a 'degree Kelvin' was.

Still lying, I see.
Quote
1) As I mentioned before, the “Wizard” and “Master” stuff is borrowed from the book Princess Bride, not a terrorist organisation

2) I quote bunches of papers; I hardly need to stumble on one by typing in “White Gene” (which is a patently stupid search command anyway; really, Yenta, you can do better than this)

3) The K bit was started by MidnightVoice, not I. Besides, your methodology reeks. For example, it’s clear that you don’t believe in Neonazi philosophy, correct? On that we can be agreed, right? And yet on one of your picture posts I counted a total 14 typed words. Does this coincidence mean anything? No. But the “clue” is there anyway. So see, it’s very easy to uncover false positives by your method. This is how people can “find” De Vere’s hand in Shakespeare’s work.

 As for my "ignorance" of the degrees Kelvin issue, I'll let the lurkers decide.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2006,11:07   

Quote
 You meet the OED definition of a racist because of your clear statements that you would discriminate on grounds of race ( in the case of immigration to the US for example).


Quote
Ummm, Yenta, Northeast Asians are not a race, the Jews are not a race, East Indians are not a race: they are ethnic groups, and each group is concentrated in a particular nation: China, Japan, Korea, India, Israel. If I wanted to use racial classifications, I would have used the terms "Asian" and "Caucasian". Yet I avoided the broader racial categories, choosing to focus on nationalities instead. Why? Because each of these groups assimilate into Western society. Many of their racial cohorts do not.


.. by your logic you couldn't accuse the Nazis of 'racial discrimination' then - after all the Jews aren't a 'race' - they're an 'ethnic group'.


I suppose you're the kind of guy who likes to get the calipers out when he's making his racial judgements -

So you choose to use different labels and boundaries for your 'races' or ethnic groups - makes not a jot of difference. Caucasian in particular is an American construct with about the same validity as Ayran. If you look at DNA everyone outside Africa is just one tribe.

So it's absolutely flippin' crystal clear that you are a racist by your own definition - which is probabably why I scared you away from the Panda's thumb - if not go back and post there and refute what i said. And don't bother trying to 'correct' your posts here - I've saved a copy.

You accuse me of lying - then give a link to the whole thread - could you be a tiny bit more specific??


From the room temp IQ thread ...


Quote
By the way, while you guys are wallowing in your C-level IQ's, try to appreciate your correspondence with a member of the K community (the Master, the Master^2, and I'll let you take a stab at the third member).


'KKK' Larry ???

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,04:54   

The Yenta Wrote:
Quote
.. by your logic you couldn't accuse the Nazis of 'racial discrimination' then - after all the Jews aren't a 'race' - they're an 'ethnic group'.


I suppose you're the kind of guy who likes to get the calipers out when he's making his racial judgements

You're the one who pulled out the dictionary, Yenta. Don't squeal when Uncle Paley administers a much-needed lesson.
Quote
Caucasian in particular is an American construct with about the same validity as Ayran. If you look at DNA everyone outside Africa is just one tribe.

Wrong again, not that it matters. See Figure 1.

And the lies keep on comin':
Quote
So it's absolutely flippin' crystal clear that you are a racist by your own definition - which is probabably why I scared you away from the Panda's thumb - if not go back and post there and refute what i said.

The only crystal I see is the crank yer smokin. From your own post:
Quote
See you in Na-na-ia since this thread is dead now.

You were the one encouraging me to leave the thread. Now you're claiming that I "ran" away because I followed your suggestion! Absolutely insane. But I've learned to lower my expectations when debating liberals. By the way, Yenta, you made a statement that proves that you read my explanation of the "Wizard" issue. Here it is:
Quote
In mitigation you are totally barmy, believing in: ‘intelligent design; that the universe revolves around the earth’; and that its a good idea to quote ‘white nationalists’ and the ‘Princess Bride’ in your defense.

This proves that you knew where the "Wizard" reference came from when you wrote
Quote
If your jokes about the 'K^K' and 'wizards and masters' backfire on you - I'm not to blame.

a few posts ago. Yet you didn't mention the explanation. I'm starting to catch on to the evo debating style; sorry for being slow: in mitigation, my teacher's a cretin.
Quote
And don't bother trying to 'correct' your posts here - I've saved a copy.

The only one trying to rewrite history is you. Class, what is the definition of "projection"?
Quote
From the room temp IQ thread ...


Quote  
By the way, while you guys are wallowing in your C-level IQ's, try to appreciate your correspondence with a member of the K community (the Master, the Master^2, and I'll let you take a stab at the third member).


'KKK' Larry

Technically, that's 'kkkk' when you incorporate the square symbol, which I obviously wouldn't have done unless I meant something else. Once again, I'll let the lurkers read the original context. For some reason, you never link to the original post. Hmmmmmm... why would that be?

 Oh, by the way, I saw your latest smear. Hey, be a man and confront me directly with your allegations in the future. And when are you going to answer my questions? Here they are:
Quote
Please explain how:

1) my citation of The Color of Crime proves that I agree with Jared Taylor's views, especially when I've made my own views perfectly clear on several occasions;
2) the citation is inappropriate, especially when it supports one of my main complaints against most cross-national studies, i.e. that they confound race and religion, driving the very conclusions that they're trying to prove;
3) Jared Taylor's political beliefs render him unable to multiply or divide government figures; and
4) if Jared's study is transparently worthless, nobody can refute it.

Here's a few more:
Quote
Why shouldn’t I be allowed to cite a person, even if I don’t agree with him? You still haven’t answered that. Do you believe in Big Brother? And is John McWhorter a racist? Read his book Losing the Race; it takes contemporary black culture to task in very harsh terms. Is Michelle Malkin a racist? She shares many of my immigration and cultural concerns. According to liberal philosophy, white people can’t question their views because they’re “people of color”. Or should they have more liberty to speak their mind?

Here's another one:
Quote
Simple question: Is affirmative action racist? Please give a straight answer. And if it isn't, why not? If it is, then why aren't you jumping on American liberals?


Why can't you answer any of these questions, Yenta? It wouldn't be because liberal philosophy is incoherent, or that lies and slander are all liberals have to offer, would it?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,07:11   

Paley you're a racist - your own words prove it.

I've noticed the way you go back to edit your own posts when your foolishness has been pointed out.

Look at the dates of my posts on Panda's thumb mate - you ran away for a whole week - I posted three times before you came back with one of your obscure insults. I the end I gave up on you - the thread was only dead because you were scared away.


You can't change my posts there old chum - the record is clear for all to see.

I think I have been pretty clear with my allegations Paley:

Based on your posts at the Panda's Thumb, and here,
you are a racist - plain and simple.

You might want to rationalise that you aren't on the basis that you would discriminate by 'ethnic group' rather than 'race'  - and that only make you a 'twit' and a racist.

Paley - you said that the 'Wizards and Masters reference was from the 'Princess Bride' - since I've never read it ( isn't it a little girls book?) - I took your word for it. Don't pretend that I have a clue what you're on about.

You still haven't expained the KKK or KKKK reference - what was all that about?

Seems an odd coincidence to me that a self-avowed racist should reference from 'White Nationalists' - and then talk about 'Wizards and Masters' - and KK or KKK or KKKK for some as yet unexplained reason - purely by accident?

I think you thought it was clever to make a smug coded reference - and you got caught out.

I frankly don't care about American Liberals, the obscure commentators you quote - or what a 'Yenta' is - (you still haven't told me).

I am pleased to have run one 'Good Old Boy' redneck racist out of town!

You post as 'Ghost of Paley' on the PT again -and all I have to do is point here - or to the PT thread.

So you'll have to think up a new alter ego now chum - and as soon as you start spouting the same old nonsense - I'll run you out of town again - your daft racist and astronomical views are absolutely trademark - as is your pretending to be a 'self-taught' expert on matters where you are essentially clueless ( a tip mate - get a better teacher).

There are other little 'giveaways' you have - but I'll let you try to work out what those are...

So bugger off to 'Paleys World' - or why not try 'Unearthly Descent' - I hear the living dead walk the earth there -

- see you back in your next re-incarnation on Panda's Thumb.

You racist.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,10:00   

The Yenta dithered:
Quote
Paley you're a racist - your own words prove it.

 Once again: Is English your first language? Or is my American dialect giving you problems? You seem to be amazingly tone deaf for a native speaker.
Quote
Look at the dates of my posts on Panda's thumb mate - you ran away for a whole week - I posted three times before you came back with one of your obscure insults. I the end I gave up on you - the thread was only dead because you were scared away.

  Careful, Yenta, you are crossing the Hyperion radius of rationality, and I'm having difficulty processing your rants......follow the light at the end of the tunnel before it's too late!!  :D
Quote
Based on your posts at the Panda's Thumb, and here,
you are a racist - plain and simple.

If you say so. Of course I could follow your reasoning better if you would answer a couple of questions....do I need to post them again?
Quote
You might want to rationalise that you aren't on the basis that you would discriminate by 'ethnic group' rather than 'race'  - and that only make you a 'twit' and a racist.

 Good, you're back in focus; I actually understand this complaint. Let's get one thing straight: Strict immigration policies are not discrimination. Discrimination applies once you become a citizen. If I advocated Jim Crow laws (as J. Taylor and the liberals do), your charge would have merit, but nobody has a divine right to become a citizen of any country he likes. Try emigrating to Japan, India, America, Canada, Mexico or any African country: you'll see that they don't just let anyone in, and yes, culture plays a big part on who gets in. As well as nationality and race. But please don't take my word for it; investigate the matter yourself.
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Paley - you said that the 'Wizards and Masters reference was from the 'Princess Bride' - since I've never read it ( isn't it a little girls book?) - I took your word for it.

Ummm, no you didn't. You pretended that the explanation didn't exist, and repeated your (rather nutty) allegation. You lied, in other words. And no, the book is for adults, which means that it's much too advanced for you. Try the movie instead.
Quote
You still haven't expained the KKK or KKKK reference - what was all that about?

:0  :(  ???  :D

Sorry, had to collect myself. Let me try again.

There are three basic units of temperature (note the qualification): Celcius, Fahrenheit, and Kelvin. Let's say you encounter someone with an I.Q. of 75; we'll give him the initials D.M. You wish to insult his intellect in a colorful way. What to do? Ahhhhh... use the old "room temperature" cliche. Problem: the reference assumes a Fahrenheit temperature scale, as the equivalent Celcius measure - around 24 Degrees - would be too low, while the Kelvin temperature - 297 degrees - is way too high. MidnightVoice pointed out the ambiguity, and I took an opportunity to praise The Master, the Wizard (whom I referred to as Master^2), and.......myself. The K's indicate stratospheric IQs; the C's, evo IQs. And that's all there is to it. If I had praised anyone else up to that point, I would have included them; but I hadn't, so I didn't.
Quote
Seems an odd coincidence to me that a self-avowed racist should reference from 'White Nationalists' - and then talk about 'Wizards and Masters' - and KK or KKK or KKKK for some as yet unexplained reason - purely by accident?

And yet you won't give it up. I really wish I had the literary talent you credit me with - I would be very rich. But that's what you get for using a crappy methodology.
Quote
I frankly don't care about American Liberals, the obscure commentators you quote - or what a 'Yenta' is - (you still haven't told me).

"Yenta" is a yiddish term for a coarse, gossipy woman.
Quote
I am pleased to have run one 'Good Old Boy' redneck racist out of town!

 For a nonprejudiced sort, you do like your stereotypes. But I guess some forms of bigotry are O.K., if you have the right beliefs....
Quote
You post as 'Ghost of Paley' on the PT again -and all I have to do is point here - or to the PT thread.

Is this how Darwinists conduct debates? I thought it was about the quality of a man's arguments. Boy, was I misled.
Quote
So you'll have to think up a new alter ego now chum - and as soon as you start spouting the same old nonsense - I'll run you out of town again - your daft racist and astronomical views are absolutely trademark - as is your pretending to be a 'self-taught' expert on matters where you are essentially clueless ( a tip mate - get a better teacher).

I don't quite grasp this sentence. Let us try the next.
Quote
There are other little 'giveaways' you have - but I'll let you try to work out what those are...

 Wow, clues so dubious they don't make the Yenta's cut. Can't wait.
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So bugger off to 'Paleys World' - or why not try 'Unearthly Descent' - I hear the living dead walk the earth there -

- see you back in your next re-incarnation on Panda's Thumb.

Mods willing, I plan on sticking around. Lucky you.
Quote
You racist.

####, I lost the office pool. And me with all my liberal experience.......

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,10:16   

Quote
I've noticed the way you go back to edit your own posts when your foolishness has been pointed out.

I don't remember editing a post for anything other than a typo. I certainly haven't attempted to cover anything up. Which post(s) are you talking about? And why can't you answer any of my questions?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1391
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,12:21   

Can you edit posts here after posting?

Mr P, what would really floor Dean would be that "Gut to Gametes" paper.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2006,12:47   

<quote>Problem: the reference assumes a Fahrenheit temperature scale, as the equivalent Celcius measure - around 24 Degrees - would be too low, while the Kelvin temperature - 297 degrees - is way too high. MidnightVoice pointed out the ambiguity, and I took an opportunity to praise The Master, the Wizard (whom I referred to as Master^2), and.......myself. The K's indicate stratospheric IQs; the C's, evo IQs. And that's all there is to it. If I had praised anyone else up to that point, I would have included them; but I hadn't, so I didn't.</quote>

Oh pleeeaaaseee.....

Okay hold that ..

you're not a 'racist'

... you're a pathetic racist......


Celsius by the way Paley - Celsius ..

and don't pretend it's an American spelling - it's a blokes name...

..pathetic

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2006,07:54   

Quote
Oh pleeeaaaseee.....

 Well, I think I've found what I wanted. Thanks for the spelling tip; when you have actual arguments to add to that, let me know. Cogzoid and Fox offer sound advice worth following. To Mr. Murphy and Cogzoid, I've saved my new draft on two disks, so you'll get your paper Monday (can't post it now). Mr. Fox: Be patient and I'll see what I can do. Mr. Morrison: I suggest you head to the Sherdog Forums - the people there seem more your speed. I'm sorry I broke your brain - come back when you get it patched up, old chap..... :)

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2006,10:00   

I'll happily check your paper for spelling and English , Paley - but if you want it peer-reviewed you'd better find a moron like Larry.
I assume that won't be so hard to do?

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2006,09:50   

Quote
I'll happily check your paper for spelling and English , Paley - but if you want it peer-reviewed you'd better find a moron like Larry.
I assume that won't be so hard to do?

Naaw, not when there are fine, upstanding scientists such as Ken Millar available. Do you really think I'm Larry? Wow, you are clueless - no surprise, I guess......

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 08 2006,10:44   

Yeah ... well all you trolls look the same to me...

Ken Millar is a real person that doesn't need to hide behind an Avatar - I don't think he regards ghosts as his peers - you're better off sticking with Larry.

Well done for spelling all the words correctly in your last post by the way...

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,08:12   

From now on I'm going to ignore the Yenta's slander, but since he intends to poison the well:
Quote
I am pleased to have run one 'Good Old Boy' redneck racist out of town!

You post as 'Ghost of Paley' on the PT again -and all I have to do is point here - or to the PT thread.

So you'll have to think up a new alter ego now chum - and as soon as you start spouting the same old nonsense - I'll run you out of town again - your daft racist and astronomical views are absolutely trademark - as is your pretending to be a 'self-taught' expert on matters where you are essentially clueless ( a tip mate - get a better teacher).

and in fact has already done so after making this threat, I feel that a generic response is called for.

1)  A good starting point that outlines my political philosophy.

2)  Two defenses of my position. (Scroll down to see Dean's false accusation that I am Larry Fafarman, whom Dean accuses of Holocaust denial.)

3)  Proof of Dean's lies.

4)  Some opinions of Dean's posts.

In short, the reader should treat Dean's opinions with extreme skepticism before endorsing them.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,13:41   

'Ghost of Paley'
You poisoned your own well a long time ago - I just drew attention to it by quoting your own posts and statements

How does quoting you and coming to a conclusion about your point of view count as lying?

If there are any lurkers out there - please follow the references that Paley gives where he says I am 'lying'.....

...He condemns himself with his own words in them.

My 'threat' was to expose you by drawing attention to posts like these: seems like you're happy to self-destruct by doing it yourself.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,13:57   

Quote
From now on I'm going to ignore the Yenta's slander


a point of English Paley - that would be libel not slander ...

come back and tell me why when you've looked it up...

there's a good chap..

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,14:12   

Quote
a point of English Paley - that would be libel not slander ...

Legally it would be neither. In America, proving libel is considerably more difficult than in Great Britain, which you would know if you shut yer gums and picked up a book once in a while. Tell me Yenta, is there a single branch of human knowledge you're not ignorant in? Just for the record.  :p

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,14:37   

No! No! No! Paley - go to the back of the class!

From the Compact Oxford English Dictionary:

Quote
Libel: libel

 • noun 1 Law the publication of a false statement that is damaging to a person’s reputation. Compare with SLANDER. 2 a written defamation.

 • verb (libelled, libelling; US libeled, libeling) Law defame by publishing a libel.

 — DERIVATIVES libellous (US also libelous) adjective.

 — ORIGIN originally denoting a document: from Latin libellus ‘little book’.


now you see it wouldn't be slander Paley - because I wrote it down.

The reason you would have a problem prosecuting a case - even in the UK (where, after all I was sitting when I wrote whatever it was that upset you) - is that I could prove that what I say about you is true - by quoting your own words. (I am aware that our legal codes differ on this matter (yours is often considered to have advantages over ours by legal opinion here) - but this does not change the definition of the word).

You on the other hand would have trouble substantiating your libellous accusation that I have 'lied' about you.


But don't worry Paley old chap - I don't get my knickers in a twist about it - and I'm quite content to see you suffer here.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,14:39   

While the Yenta is busy researching American defamation law, I thought a little quote would help pass the time.
Quote
"Libel", "slander", and "defamation" are commonly used as synonyms in ordinary language, at least in Britain and Ireland. However, those jurisdictions that distinguish "libel" and "slander" as legal concepts do so on the following broad basis: defamatory communication in writing is termed "libel" while one made via the spoken word is termed "slander".

Class, define the term "ordinary language". For extra credit, write an essay on the type of education it would take to produce a man ignorant about word usage in his own language.
Yenta, if you can't find the information, please let me know and I'll help you. Hint: six points must usually be established, even for private individuals.

Class, do you think I could drop a few pounds?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:01   

Quote
now you see it wouldn't be slander Paley - because I wrote it down.

See the wikipedia source. I was clearly using the vernacular meaning. We can argue "point-of-publication" issues and their applicability to the Internet if you'd like, but your statements are clearly not libelous by American standards (but not for the reason you think). So no matter how you look at it, you're wrong. You lose - again.

Hurts to be out-argued by a "redneck", don't it? My, what will your students think?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:02   

Selective quotation I see Paley (full quote below) - but doesn't help you much.
I don't know when you became an 'common British person'? - what Wikipedia doesn't really explain that mixing up 'Slander' and 'libel' is a common mistake of the uneducated in both countries - rather like mixing up 'lend' and 'borrow'.
Or saying 'I'll learn you a lesson'!
Common maybe - good English? I think not.

An interesting legal point would be that in your case you would accuse me of 'blackening the memory of the dead' as you are a Ghostly entity - something for which we have no provision for in English Law - you can say what you like about someone when they're dead.

Since you hide behind a pseudonym I guess you wouldn't be protected anyway - although it might make for an interesting piece of case law.



Quote

Libel and Slander

In English and American law, and systems based on them, libel and slander are two forms of defamation (or defamation of character), which is the tort or delict of publishing (meaning to a third party) a false statement that negatively affects someone's reputation. "Defamation" is the term generally used internationally, and is accordingly used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "libel" and "slander".

Libel and Slander

"Libel", "slander", and "defamation" are commonly used as synonyms in ordinary language, at least in Britain and Ireland. However, those jurisdictions that distinguish "libel" and "slander" as legal concepts do so on the following broad basis: defamatory communication in writing is termed "libel" while one made via the spoken word is termed "slander". However, because the underlying distinction is between permanent and transient communications, some jurisdictions regard all defamatory communications (even spoken statements) broadcast on radio or television as "libel". Both acts share a common legal history, although they may be treated differently under some legal systems. According to the American and English Encyclopedia of Law, a libel is a malicious defamation expressed either by writing or printing or by signs, pictures, effigies or the like; tending to blacken the memory of one who is dead, or to impeach the honesty, integrity, virtue or reputation, or to publish the natural or alleged defects of one who is alive, thereby exposing him to public hatred, contempt, ridicule or obloquy; or to cause him to be avoided or shunned or to injure him in his office, business or occupation.


Do you consider yourself to be some kind of lawyer by the way Paley???

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:08   

'out-argued' ? now this really is a dreadful concoction -

My only student is you Paley and I'm afraid I've come to the conclusion you need to drop a class.

see you for school tommorrow - don't be late!

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:16   

My, aren't you a fast typist?
Quote
I don't know when you became an 'common British person'? - what Wikipedia doesn't really explain that mixing up 'Slander' and 'libel' is a common mistake of the uneducated in both countries - rather like mixing up 'lend' and 'borrow'.

Once again, you whipped out the dictionary, not me. Don't get upset when I prove that English is not your strong suit. And you really need to brush up on linguistics while you're at it - there are no such things as "bad" dialects. See, you shoulda read McWhorter like I told you.............
Quote
Since you hide behind a pseudonym I guess you wouldn't be protected anyway - although it might make for an interesting piece of case law.

I have to agree here. But since your statements don't constitute libel anyway, I guess we'll have to remain ignernt. I ain't the suin' type noways. :D
Quote
Do you consider yourself to be some kind of lawyer by the way Paley???

Nope. And I'm not a professional card player either. But I know when someone's been dealing from the bottom of the deck.................
Quote
'out-argued' ? now this really is a dreadful concoction -

If you click on the link, all will be revealed...........

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:24   

Please don't tell me you're not a teacher....how disappointing! All this time I was relishing the thought of making you look like a jackass in front of your own students. Almost like this guy.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:30   

I didn't say that there were such things as bad dialects - I slip between Devonian, Scouse and Scots myself. Which dialect had you decided to start using by the way?

However when I come across a supposedly educated person like yourself it dissapoints me to see you making such an elementary error.

I did offer to correct the English in your 'paper'. Might help if you tell me what dialect you will be writing this in though... Swedish Chef perhaps?

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:38   

I'm more of a fan of Mrs Henn myself:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1051/1051_01.asp

.. but luckily for you Paley you're so dumb you need your own private tutor...

(If you think that quoting Chick tracts is going to impress any lurkers then I think you'll find you're mistaken)

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:40   

Quote
I didn't say that there were such things as bad dialects - I slip between Devonian, Scouse and Scots myself.

Contrast this with:
Quote
don't know when you became an 'common British person'? - what Wikipedia doesn't really explain that mixing up 'Slander' and 'libel' is a common mistake of the uneducated in both countries - rather like mixing up 'lend' and 'borrow'.
Or saying 'I'll learn you a lesson'!
Common maybe - good English? I think not.

Geez, Yenta, try to make it a little more difficult, or else suspicious types will think you're my publicist. :D
Quote
However when I come across a supposedly educated person like yourself it dissapoints me to see you making such an elementary error.

Contrast this with:
Quote
I did offer to correct the English in your 'paper'.

It's "disappoints", Yenta. Perhaps we both need tutoring in that most difficult of languages (known as "good English" in the vernacular).

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2006,15:49   

Quote
I'm more of a fan of Mrs Henn myself:

Thanks for the link; I'll have to read it later. Well I'm off now - have your way with me if you must. But before taking too many liberties, just remember:

Your ass is grass and I'm the lawnmower.

:D  :D  :D

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2006,01:25   

Okay - I'll correct your Swedish Chef for you:

Quote
Thunks fur zee leenk; I'll hefe-a tu reed it leter. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp! Vell I'm ooffff noo - hefe-a yuoor vey veet me-a iff yuoo moost. Um de hur de hur de hur. Boot beffure-a tekeeng tuu muny leeberties, joost remember: Yuoor ess is gress und I'm zee levnmooer. Hurty flurty schnipp schnipp!


Although this sounds more authentically you:

Quote
Thanks fo' th' link; I'll hafta read it later. Wal ah's off now - haf yer way wif me eff'n yo' muss. But befo'e takin' too menny liberties, jest remember: Yer ass is grass an' ah's th' lawnmower.


rather than this at least:

Quote
Danks fo' de link; I'll gots'ta eyeball it later. Ah be baaad... Well I'm off now - gots yo' way wid me if ya' must. Man! But befo'e takin' too many liberties, plum remember, dig dis: Yo' ass be grass and I'm de lawnmower. Ah be baaad...


Well if you ever want to come to England old chum and you want to talk in the vernacular - this is how you'll have to put it when you get to London (heavens forbid! )

Quote
Fanks fer the link; I'll 'ave ter read it later. Well I'm orff naw - 'ave yor way wiv me if yer must. But befaw takin' too many liberties, right, just remember: Yor arse is grarse and I'm bloody well the lornmower.


Liberties taken - thanks - you're a good sport to be so willing to be the 'receiver' like this old chum.

;)

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2006,06:49   

Wow, Yenta, a man of your talents deserves an ambassadorship. Perhaps you can bridge the much-needed gap between Evilutionism and hillbilly culture. You mighta orta keep your ebonics in the suitcase though: some black Amuricans could resent your interpretation of their dialect.  :D  Ah'm jest sayin'......(hillbilly fer "Something to consider, my good man.")

Oh yeah, has Tara found a date for you yet?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Dean Morrison



Posts: 216
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 11 2006,08:00   

Back for more Paley?

Congratulations! you taught me a new word - 'ebonics' - not one we use over here. Not my interpretation though - go figure - and if you notice it's about fifty years out of date.

Tara's girls sound  waaay out of my league - still - since 'charm' is a concept with which you are evidently unfamiliar then I reckon I'd stand one more cat in 'hades' chance than your sweet self. :D

  
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