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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Call to cover creationism

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,17:09    Quote Call to cover creationism 1 day ago Science teachers must respect the growing numbers of pupils who hold "creationist" beliefs and should be prepared to cover the topic in class, experts said. The theory of evolution should be taught as a significant issue. part of science lessons but there should be room to discuss creationism, they said. The call came in a new book edited by Michael Reiss, from the University of London's Institute of Education, and Leslie Jones, from Valdosta State University, in the United States. Creationism includes a belief that all life-forms have always existed in their present form, and that the world was formed 6,000-10,000 years ago, rather than 4,600 million years ago as most scientists believe. This can make the teaching of the globally accepted scientific theory of evolution a problem in some schools. Professor Reiss, who has a PhD in evolutionary biology and is also an Anglican priest, said teachers could not ignore the fact that growing numbers of Muslim and Christian children in the UK now hold creationist beliefs. "More and more people don't have any religious faith but the ones that do are becoming - quite often - more fundamentalist," he said. "Fifty years ago there were very small numbers of fundamentalist Christians. Now a much higher proportion are fundamentalists." He said science teachers must treat pupils who have creationist beliefs with respect. "What I am saying is teach evolution as a really good part of science but be open to the fact that in most classes there are increasingly likely to be some children who come from families that cannot accept that - and don't denigrate those pupils and their beliefs. The days have long gone when science teachers could ignore creationism when teaching about origins." The book - Teaching about Scientific Origins: Taking Account of Creationism - aims to help science teachers tackle the issue. link It's really weird to me how just because someone says so they think it should be so. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,17:22    I'm not sure I could do this, as it compromises my own principles. It is not science. Can a school ask that a teacher cover material that their professional organizations say is not appropriate? What if a student brings it up, then the teacher proceeds to tear it to shreds? What would the parents think then? How irritating.

argystokes Posts: 766 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,17:56    Quote (lkeithlu @ Oct. 05 2007,15:22) I'm not sure I could do this, as it compromises my own principles. It is not science. Can a school ask that a teacher cover material that their professional organizations say is not appropriate? What if a student brings it up, then the teacher proceeds to tear it to shreds? What would the parents think then? How irritating. If you're in the US, it's illegal to teach creationism in science class. And that's the only explanation necessary to give to students, parents, or administrators (though I would personally give a more extensive explanation to the students). -------------- "Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,18:00    Quote (argystokes @ Oct. 05 2007,15:56) Quote (lkeithlu @ Oct. 05 2007,15:22) I'm not sure I could do this, as it compromises my own principles. It is not science. Can a school ask that a teacher cover material that their professional organizations say is not appropriate? What if a student brings it up, then the teacher proceeds to tear it to shreds? What would the parents think then? How irritating. If you're in the US, it's illegal to teach creationism in science class. And that's the only explanation necessary to give to students, parents, or administrators (though I would personally give a more extensive explanation to the students). I think lkeithlu is in the UK, where the situation is considerably muddier.  What's being proposed might be inappropriate, but it's probably not illegal. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

csadams Posts: 124 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,19:43    Thread title: "Call to cover creationism" with what . . . a shroud? -------------- Stand Up For REAL Science!

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,19:43    My wife who teaches science in middle school has had more than one research report (an alternative to a final exam) done on creation science or intelligent design. In the US it is illegal to teach religion but she lets them write about it. It is typically a messy affair since she requires at least a superficial understanding of the source material. The paper requires "defense". That just means that she asks the student to answer a few questions in an oral presentation setting. I don't know how she does it but she's never had an angry parent. Frustrated yes. Angry, no. She makes them draft it three times and typically the papers run between ten and thirty pages. -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

lkeithlu Posts: 321 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,20:10    Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 05 2007,18:00) Quote (argystokes @ Oct. 05 2007,15:56) Quote (lkeithlu @ Oct. 05 2007,15:22) I'm not sure I could do this, as it compromises my own principles. It is not science. Can a school ask that a teacher cover material that their professional organizations say is not appropriate? What if a student brings it up, then the teacher proceeds to tear it to shreds? What would the parents think then? How irritating. If you're in the US, it's illegal to teach creationism in science class. And that's the only explanation necessary to give to students, parents, or administrators (though I would personally give a more extensive explanation to the students). I think lkeithlu is in the UK, where the situation is considerably muddier.  What's being proposed might be inappropriate, but it's probably not illegal. Actually, I'm in the US, but I teach at a private school, owned by the Episcopal Church. Technically, we can teach it, but the Church issued a statement saying that creation "science" and intelligent design were bunk. That got us off the hook (not that we would even consider it, as we do our best to teach science and only science). However, even our religion classes don't cover it, because the Church says it is bunk theology too. If parents knew that, if asked, we could explain to students why creationism fails miserably as science, as does intelligent design, they would not want it mentioned at all. I would have no problem putting it with every other failed idea or misconception.

Henry J Posts: 5760 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,22:33    Maybe in cases like that somebody should ask the parents if they want their kids to be taught that God deliberately created typhoid, malaria, HIV, mosquitos, digger wasps, boll weevils, slime mold, athlete's foot, etc. Henry

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2007,13:13    Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 05 2007,22:33) Maybe in cases like that somebody should ask the parents if they want their kids to be taught that God deliberately created typhoid, malaria, HIV, mosquitos, digger wasps, boll weevils, slime mold, athlete's foot, etc. Henry I think a Hymn by St. Monty explains it best: All things dull and ug-ly, All creatures, short and squat, All things rude and na-sty, The Lord God made the lot. Each little snake that poisons, Each little wasp that stings, He made their prudish venom, He made their horrid wings. All things sick and cancerous, All evil great and small, All things foul and dangerous, The Lord God made them all. Each nasty little hornet, Each beastly little squid, Who made the spiky urchin? Who made the sharks? He did! All things scant and ulcerous, All pox both great and small, Putrid, foul and gangrenous, The Lord God made them all. Amen. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Bob O'H Posts: 2561 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2007,13:51    What exactly do the authors suggest?  There's nothing that explicitly says that they say that creationism should be taught positively: they do say that it should be discussed, and that the pupils should be respected.  I think we should know more before condemning the authors. Even if one of them was the inaugural editor of the journal Sex Education. Bob -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

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