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  Topic: Behe is still an IDiot, And still no evidence for a space alien< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,10:35   

Behe is joining the "Judge Jones is a naughty word" campaign.  Read his nonsense
Here (pdf file)

I am astonished Behe is defending his testimony.  The DI must have made him do it.  I think most everyone outside of the ID cult is fully aware that Dr Behe is a garden variety quack.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
tacitus



Posts: 118
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,10:40   

But you've got to admit it's a great whine  :D

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,11:03   

A cry baby and sore loser to be sure. And the poor dear never had time to read those 50 articles/books put in front of him while on the stand.  Well if he took biology with any seriousness he would have already read them.  It's not like they were all published the day before the trial.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,11:36   

What else could he possibly say after that?  "Yeah, I got busted!  Oh well, back to the lab..."  Or maybe, "At the trial, some things were brought to my attention that indicate I should re-evaluate my research."  Of course not.  Those would be the reactions of a scientist.

Instead, he tells us he is a man of the people, and not like those mean, stuffy, godless scientists.  Behe makes his intentions perfectly clear:  he wants to keep selling books.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,11:40   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 06 2006,16:35)
Behe is joining the "Judge Jones is a naughty word" campaign.  Read his nonsense
Here (pdf file)

I am astonished Behe is defending his testimony.  The DI must have made him do it.  I think most everyone outside of the ID cult is fully aware that Dr Behe is a garden variety quack.

Good grief,
Silly old me thought that a scientific argument required evidence.

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,11:52   

Wow it just gets worse and worse as I read it...

-Strawman YEC vs. big tent creationism...
-Splitting hairs with "controverted" vs. "refuted"...
-"If I performed an experiment nobody would believe me..."

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,12:19   

Quote
Dr Quack wrote...

-"If I performed an experiment nobody would believe me..."


A howler to be sure.  

And he's right, no one would have believed him.  They would have run the same test to see if they got the same result.  it;s called verification. That's how science works, Dr Quack.  

Someone says I ran this test and got this result and rather than believe that proposition on blind faith somone else tries to validate those test results.  I think this is a part of what is known as the scientific method.

I'm looking forward to reading the commentary about Behe's whine on PT and other science blogs soon...

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,12:24   

Amazing how many people misunderstand ID, huh? Teachers, research scientists, professors, biologists, information theorists, scientific organizations, judges....

It must be a very subtle and brilliant idea indeed.

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,12:33   

Quote
It must be a very subtle and brilliant idea indeed.


But any average person can buy my book and understand it perfectly!  That's Darwin's Black Box, available at amazon.com and fine book sellers everywhere.  And it makes a great gift!

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
avocationist



Posts: 173
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,12:53   

Wow. This critique by Behe is scathing. Paragraph after paragraph, not once does Behe miss.

How sad people are reduced to calling it whining, and to missing the simple point he made that the claim IC was "refuted" amounted to no more than saying it was controversial but not that it had been proven wrong.

This man, Judge Jones, is utterly out of his league. He has made a shameful episode in history, and he is no friend of Darwinism. I would love to see him try to answer Behe's points, but of course he cannot.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,14:30   

Clearly, Avocationist, you are a  true believer. But who are you to say someone's "out of his league" in judging whether Behe's argument makes sense? The fact that Judge Jones comes to the same conclusion as every major scientific organization that has weighed in on it - that doesn't give you a moment's pause? Can you point me to any scientist's* review of Behe's book that didn't pan it?  

* And I don't mean creationist that happens to have a degree. I mean someone whose public reputation is primarily as a scientist.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Flint



Posts: 478
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,15:35   

avocationist:

Actually, as Jones understood perfectly well and pointed out directly, by the time Behe was forced on cross-examination to explain what IC was NOT, IC could no longer be proven wrong because it no longer made any coherent claims! Let's see...scaffolding doesn't count, exaptation doesn't count, a change in lifestyle doesn't count, organisms whose systems work just fine although missing 'essential' pieces don't count...well, what DOES count anymore?

As Judge Jones couldn't help but notice, NOTHING counted anymore. How can anyone 'prove wrong' a claim that a certain structure couldn't possibly evolve EXCEPT by all the different ways it COULD have evolved, which Behe disallows as "not what he meant"?

Jones DID answer Behe's points. Fully and directly. And by the time he was done, Behe didn't have any points at all anymore. Behe stomped on his dick bigtime. And as others are pointing out, science requires that one admit error, religion requires that one NEVER admit error. Now, which one is Behe? How many guesses do you need?

IC wasn't 'refuted', it was whittled away until nothing was left. Which is what happens to something based on NO theory, NO hypotheses, NO research, NO evidence. Nothing but pure religious faith. Jones points out with some humor that having been stripped of all but his simple faith, Behe was left sitting on the stand saying "I say it's science, I believe it, that settles it!"

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,17:55   

Quote
avocationist-
Wow. This critique by Behe is scathing. Paragraph after paragraph, not once does Behe miss.


No kidding, the man is a marksman.  You should read his expert testimony at the Dover trial.  Everytime he was asked a question he took careful aim shot himself in the foot and never once missed.  A regular Annie Oakley that Dr Quack Quack.

Quote
avocationist -
How sad people are reduced to calling it whining, and to missing the simple point he made that the claim IC was "refuted" amounted to no more than saying it was controversial but not that it had been proven wrong.


"whining" To complain or protest in a childish fashion. Nuff said on whining.

And...Um, let's see according to Dr Quack Quack IC idea life is too complex at the biochemical level to have evolved and he calls this  "irreducible complexity" which is the signature of a "designer".  He can't quite figure out how these things got here so according to Dr Quack Quack this so-called "designer" is "God" but he also suggests it could be a space alien or even a time traveler.  I saw him say that on national television.

Now, I believe either AIDs or HIV fall within Dr Quack Quacks definition of IC which suggests the "designer" is a bio-terrorist who should be stopped at all costs.  The "designer" makes Saddam and Ossama look like choir boys.

And I agree with you, Ken Miller (and no one for that matter) has yet to prove Dr Quack Quacks space alien (or time traveler or god) is bogus.  So far NO ONE has proven space aliens and time travelers are not bio-terrorist.  Heck they haven't even proven time travelers do not exist.  In view of this I think Ken should change careers.  

But keep in mind the entire biology department where Dr Quack Quack teaches is totally unscientific too.  Check out this unscientific nonsense they wrote about the time traveler theory...

The faculty in the Department of Biological Sciences is committed to the highest standards of scientific integrity and academic function. This commitment carries with it unwavering support for academic freedom and the free exchange of ideas. It also demands the utmost respect for the scientific method, integrity in the conduct of research, and recognition that the validity of any scientific model comes only as a result of rational hypothesis testing, sound experimentation, and findings that can be replicated by others.

The department faculty, then, are unequivocal in their support of evolutionary theory, which has its roots in the seminal work of Charles Darwin and has been supported by findings accumulated over 140 years. The sole dissenter from this position, Prof. Michael Behe, is a well-known proponent of "intelligent design." While we respect Prof. Behe's right to express his views, they are his alone and are in no way endorsed by the department. It is our collective position that intelligent design has no basis in science, has not been tested experimentally, and should not be regarded as scientific.



What a bunch of unscientific goons!  What the heck do a bunch of  goons at Lehigh know about biology in the first place?  They are probably jealous of all the attention Dr Quack Quack gets on t.v.

Quote
avocationist-
This man, Judge Jones, is utterly out of his league. He has made a shameful episode in history, and he is no friend of Darwinism. I would love to see him try to answer Behe's points, but of course he cannot.  


Of course not, NO ONE has been able to refute the time traveler theory or the space alien theory or the god theory for that matter.  No one ever will because Dr Quack Quack is the only man in north America who really understands science.

Did you read his testimony?  Man oh man he sure showed the world who understands science and who doesn't.  Well him and William The Theologian.  

YOU should read every single word of Dr Quack Quack's expert testimony.  It's a real eye opener.  

Finally, do you work for the Discovery Institute?  I read a few of your posts here and if you don't already work for them you should.  Seriously.  You've got the DI victim thing down pretty good and your ability to distort and misrepresent things in such a naive manner is flawless.  You're a good IDer.  Have you met Dave Scott yet?

Cheers

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2132
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2006,19:44   

Quote
However, unlike in mathematics or philosophy, in science one cannot conclusively prove a negative. One can’t conclusively prove that Darwinism is false any more than one can conclusively prove that the “ether” doesn’t exist.


Wow.  So, Behe is admitting that he wasted his time with IC?

Overall I'm impressed with Behe's ability to miss the argument.

And the scorecard reads
Big bang 11, flagellum 7 (3 by the court)
Plus 5 ethers.

Bob

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
tiredofthesos



Posts: 59
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2006,01:27   

This "advocationist" is the funniest guy in a long while.  More proof, unneeded, that creationists really don't understand anything, nor have any quality resembling faith: he's just another coward who's whistling in the dark, scared of the bogeyman he won't call mortality.

   Also, he already reminds me of a certain Xian type who believe their arguments are convincing if they themselves are convinced, or at least claim they are.  Like this one guy used to advocate the view that the lack of physical relics of Jesus proved he was resurrected, and therefore the son of god, until I wondered why his parent's didn't keep his baby teeth or why Mary M. didn't retain a lock of hair (you'd think someone would want a souvenir) but he stopped posting under one name and assumed another rather than deal with the m.f. that gave him.

  Well, keep up the good work for science and reason, Advo!  Any lurker reading your b.s. is likely to run, not walk, to the nearest library to study up in order to become as unlike you as possible.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2006,06:17   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Feb. 06 2006,16:35)
Behe is joining the "Judge Jones is a naughty word" campaign.  Read his nonsense
Here (pdf file)

I am astonished Behe is defending his testimony.  The DI must have made him do it.  I think most everyone outside of the ID cult is fully aware that Dr Behe is a garden variety quack.

He had to do something. His whole book-selling and consulting career is on the line here. He seems to be grooming himself to be a more upscale version of Kent Hovind.

And remember, people 'outside the ID cult' are not his target audience. I doubt he cares about us anymore.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
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