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  Topic: Antievolution advocates rewrite reality, Wikipedia wars continue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,10:49   

Latest manifestation of the antievolutionist assault on Wikipedia: my biography page.

Is this stuff the best they can do?

Quote

After graduating, he worked for [[Media Image Photography]] in Gainesville, Florida. In 1983, he became a lab technologist for the Department of Anesthesiology at the [[University of Florida]]. In 1984, he married [[Diane J. Blackwood]]. In 1985, he suffered a horrible mentally crimpling accident while covertly inhaling large amounts of anesthetics in a back room with a Hatian refugee he later contracted AIDS from.


Quote

He then entered a program in artificial intelligence, trying to overcome the ravages that the anesthetics did to his brain


Quote

In 1993, he attempted to begin his doctoral studies in wildlife and fisheries sciences at [[Texas A&M University]] with Professor [[William E. Evans]] as his major advisor. He periodically travelled to San Diego to continue volunteering as a research subject [[temporary threshold shift]] in mammals, until he was employed by a Behavioral Research Programmer for studies in maleficient brain disordered and associative Behavioral Science Techniques.


It would be highly amusing if the IP address, a Verizon-supplied one, could be traced to someone associated with the current flare-up concerning rewriting the internet.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,10:57   

I await the howels of condemnation and outrage from all the IDers.

(sound of crickets chirping)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:04   

Wow Wes, inhaling anaesthetics and shagging HIV positive Haitians? You wild man you!

Oh wait, whaddya mean it's not true?

{disappointed}

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:04   

I guess that's what ID people do with all that free time they have from not doing research.

It kind of smells like either Springer or Legion, but this is such a typical IDer gesture it could be any number of people. I assume it's the same person as 'Trudy Barlow' at PT.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:18   

Earlier, I unpublished a Larry Fafarman comment from the PT thread I have about Yecke.

Wikipedia provides links to a number of services that operate on provided IP addresses, like the ones logged in the vandalism.

Here's what RDNS had to say about the vandal's IP address:

Quote

Location: United States [City: Los Angeles, California]

Preparation:
The  reverse DNS entry for an IP is found by reversing the IP, adding it to "in-addr.arpa", and looking up the PTR record.
So, the reverse DNS entry for 71.102.70.27 is found by looking up the PTR record for
27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa.
All DNS requests start by asking the root servers, and they let us know what to do next.
See How Reverse DNS Lookups Work for more information.

How I am searching:
Asking e.root-servers.net for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      e.root-servers.net says to go to indigo.arin.net. (zone: 71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking indigo.arin.net. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      indigo.arin.net [192.31.80.32] says to go to NS4.VERIZON.NET. (zone: 102.71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking NS4.VERIZON.NET. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  Reports pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [from 151.203.0.87]

Answer:
71.102.70.27 PTR record: pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [TTL 86400s] [A=71.102.70.27]


A vandal with a deranged sense of humor from Los Angeles.

Anyway, I'm writing up an email to Verizon abuse asking for their assistance in tracking down their user for publishing false defamatory information about me. Who knows, maybe I can get the joker's internet service yanked, or take it even further.

I'm sure that Larry F. would be interested in this case, if only to make appreciative noises about what the vandal did.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:19   

What does Wikipedia do in these instances?  If it is left to you to keep repairing stupid attacks like that, I would simply demand that the page be deleted and kept deleted.

Can Wikipedia be sued?  Can they be shut down?  If not, then there is no protection for anyone being libaled.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:27   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 01 2007,11:19)
What does Wikipedia do in these instances?  If it is left to you to keep repairing stupid attacks like that, I would simply demand that the page be deleted and kept deleted.

Can Wikipedia be sued?  Can they be shut down?  If not, then there is no protection for anyone being libaled.

This sort of thing happens on Wikipedia all the time. The first step is to limit edits to registered users. If that's not enough, the next step is to lock the entire article for a few months.

PS: It might also be illuminating to get 'Trudy Barlow's' ISP details from PT.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,11:51   

Arden,

Good catch. That's another Verizon IP address.

So apparently the vandal didn't want to take any chances that their handiwork would go overlooked.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,12:10   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 01 2007,11:18)
Earlier, I unpublished a Larry Fafarman comment from the PT thread I have about Yecke.

Wikipedia provides links to a number of services that operate on provided IP addresses, like the ones logged in the vandalism.

Here's what RDNS had to say about the vandal's IP address:

Quote

Location: United States [City: Los Angeles, California]

Preparation:
The  reverse DNS entry for an IP is found by reversing the IP, adding it to "in-addr.arpa", and looking up the PTR record.
So, the reverse DNS entry for 71.102.70.27 is found by looking up the PTR record for
27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa.
All DNS requests start by asking the root servers, and they let us know what to do next.
See How Reverse DNS Lookups Work for more information.

How I am searching:
Asking e.root-servers.net for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      e.root-servers.net says to go to indigo.arin.net. (zone: 71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking indigo.arin.net. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      indigo.arin.net [192.31.80.32] says to go to NS4.VERIZON.NET. (zone: 102.71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking NS4.VERIZON.NET. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  Reports pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [from 151.203.0.87]

Answer:
71.102.70.27 PTR record: pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [TTL 86400s] [A=71.102.70.27]


A vandal with a deranged sense of humor from Los Angeles.

Anyway, I'm writing up an email to Verizon abuse asking for their assistance in tracking down their user for publishing false defamatory information about me. Who knows, maybe I can get the joker's internet service yanked, or take it even further.

I'm sure that Larry F. would be interested in this case, if only to make appreciative noises about what the vandal did.

Wes, that IP is very similar to one that a troll named Truth machine uses to post from. With a DSL connection and switching DHCP leases it could very easily be the same one.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,12:49   

I wonder if Jesus is happy with whoever is bearing the false witness.

Y'know for a bunch that spends so much time preaching about their moral superiority...

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,12:55   

Well, at least you have a Wikipedia entry.

Unlike the rest of us down here in the bottom of the Primordial Soup bowl.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,13:00   

A Wikipedia editor reverted the page within three minutes of the time the vandal first edited it. I think that the Wikipedia page will get sorted out.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,13:24   

Quote (Rev. BigDumbChimp @ July 01 2007,11:10)
 Wes, that IP is very similar to one that a troll named Truth machine uses to post from. With a DSL connection and switching DHCP leases it could very easily be the same one.

Well, that's pretty weird because Truth machine is on the evolution side, but I can also see that because he tends to become unhinged and come down real hard on people. PZ once told him to calm down, and I had an extremely unpleasant encounter with him at Pharyngula myself.
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 01 2007,10:19)

What does Wikipedia do in these instances?  If it is left to you to keep repairing stupid attacks like that, I would simply demand that the page be deleted and kept deleted.

Can Wikipedia be sued?  Can they be shut down?  If not, then there is no protection for anyone being libaled.

Well... anyone can suffer defamation at any time. Your best protection is yourself, standing up against that person (though hard to do when the cretin is anonymous). JAD called me a sexual prejorative at my blog, for example, and I informed him and VMartin that statements about my alleged sexual behavior would be resolved between attorneys if it happened again. Well, that apparently put the fear of his dead god in him, the twit.

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is so rife with vandalism that I corroborate every fact with other sources.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
SpaghettiSawUs



Posts: 77
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,14:59   

Quote
JAD called me a sexual prejorative at my blog

At least you weren't called a minion!
(Oh wait, you were too).

Anyhoo, it shows that you're getting to these people when they get desperate like that.

Find 'em, sue 'em, publicly shame 'em. They'll be so busy repenting at prayer breakfasts they wont have time to do it again.

When AFDave started quotemining me on his blog I offered him the chance to either get rid of the quotemines or else he could look forward to the presence of a sharply dressed man holding a large brown envelope and asking aloud for a Mr Dave Hawkins as he walked out of church next week. It worked.

I think Wiki can hold it together, there are so many editors and as Wes said, the entry was reverted in minutes. If it gets to critical mass then of course Wiki will have to tighten up, but so far there's enough reasonable decent people out there to make that unnecessary thus far.

Cheers
Spags

PS. Kristine: I'm a gent and would never call a beaut like you a sexual prejorative (except in moments of extreme mutually fulfilling sexual encounter in response to that age old request beloved of many men: "Talk dirty to me"). IOW, only at invitation... then anything goes ;).

--------------
On June 23, 2007, 01:06 PM AFDave wrote: "How can we dismiss their theories without first reading their work?"

  
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2007,15:39   

Quote (Kristine @ July 01 2007,13:24)
Quote (Rev. BigDumbChimp @ July 01 2007,11:10)
 Wes, that IP is very similar to one that a troll named Truth machine uses to post from. With a DSL connection and switching DHCP leases it could very easily be the same one.

Well, that's pretty weird because Truth machine is on the evolution side, but I can also see that because he tends to become unhinged and come down real hard on people. PZ once told him to calm down, and I had an extremely unpleasant encounter with him at Pharyngula myself.
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 01 2007,10:19)

What does Wikipedia do in these instances?  If it is left to you to keep repairing stupid attacks like that, I would simply demand that the page be deleted and kept deleted.

Can Wikipedia be sued?  Can they be shut down?  If not, then there is no protection for anyone being libaled.

Well... anyone can suffer defamation at any time. Your best protection is yourself, standing up against that person (though hard to do when the cretin is anonymous). JAD called me a sexual prejorative at my blog, for example, and I informed him and VMartin that statements about my alleged sexual behavior would be resolved between attorneys if it happened again. Well, that apparently put the fear of his dead god in him, the twit.

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is so rife with vandalism that I corroborate every fact with other sources.

You're right Kristine. I looked back at my haloscan and Truth Machine isn't much of a troll. There was one comment (the only one I read) that taken out of context looked trollish.

My bad.

The IP addressing scheme is very close however.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2007,23:51   

Well, actually I do think Truth Machine is a troll - just a pro-evolution troll! :) But please don't tell him I said that. He creeps me sometimes.

But he wouldn't do this wiki vandalism.  
Quote (SpaghettiSawUs @ July 01 2007,13:59)

PS. Kristine: I'm a gent and would never call a beaut like you a sexual prejorative (except in moments of extreme mutually fulfilling sexual encounter in response to that age old request beloved of many men: "Talk dirty to me"). IOW, only at invitation... then anything goes ;).

Oh, great. You gave a wonderful image of JAD's one handed typing. Thanks. ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,00:42   

RICHIEPEDIA:

WES ELLSBURY.

WES IS A STERNBURGING EVILUTIONIST CHURCH BURNER. HE DOES COMPUTERS AND BOOKS STUFF. HE DOESN'T NO DESIGN WHEN HE SEAS IT AND IS TOO SLOW TO GET CSI. HE IS OBSESSED WITH PATHETIC LEVELS OF DETAIL. HE LOVES HAWKS AND OSPERICHES AND OTHER BURDS OF PRAY. HE IS TRYING TO DO GENETICS TO MAKEHIMSELF INTO A BURDMAN.



ARTISTS IMPRESSION

HE HAS YET TO GRASP THE PROPER VENUE FOR SCIENCE RESEARCH IS IN BOOKS, CLASSROOMS AND CHURCHES.


PS - HOMO.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,06:08   

Quote (Kristine @ July 01 2007,13:24)
Unfortunately, Wikipedia is so rife with vandalism that I corroborate every fact with other sources.

No more so than other respected sources like Encyclopedia Britannica, apparently.

Wikipedia also has the advantage of not costing $1695.  Plus the errors in your $1695 version don't get corrected in three minutes, they get corrected never.

It's foolish to rely on any one source for anything (except sex), of course.  I don't watch CNN (rarely) to find out what's really going on, I watch it to see what CNN says is going on--which I take with a huge grain of salt and a chaser of "they're a massive for-profit corporation with a vested financial interest in how they frame virtually every factoid they present."  At least with Wikipedia there's the transparency of being able to see who wrote and edited the articles, and what those peoples' other edits and viewpoints are.

Of course, for the real truth we all go to conservapedia, right?



Oh, I guess not.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,06:17   

OA,

Good point. Another one is that Wikipedia, the Britannica, CNN* etc are secondary sources of information. You treat secondary sources exactly like you said, with big pinches of salt.

Louis

*I can see how in some circumstances the media can be primary sources of data, and indeed this has happened quite a lot. However in modern times it seems that the news outlets all repeat Reuters or some other "source" with their own spin the majority of the time.

--------------
Bye.

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,08:56   

Quote (Louis @ July 03 2007,06:17)
OA,

Good point. Another one is that Wikipedia, the Britannica, CNN* etc are secondary sources of information. You treat secondary sources exactly like you said, with big pinches of salt.

Louis

Interestingly, CNN provides strong evidence against one of ID's central claims, that new information cannot be created without the intervention of an intelligent agent.  Paula Zahn is clearly not an intelligent agent, but every bit of information that passes through her is given a new, right-wing slant.  However, the mutation is always deleterious to the organism (truth), so I'm ultimately not sure how to score that one.
 
Quote
*I can see how in some circumstances the media can be primary sources of data, and indeed this has happened quite a lot. However in modern times it seems that the news outlets all repeat Reuters or some other "source" with their own spin the majority of the time.
CNN is a primary source, for instance, if you're researching what news coverage/topics Big Business finds most favorable to its own goals.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,10:27   

That's one of the reasons that I'm surprised that anyone uses a single thing off the internet that they can not source independently, including Wikipedia.

P.S.  Major kudos to whomever added the spellchecker.  That makes things so much easier for people like me.

  
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,11:04   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 01 2007,11:18)
Earlier, I unpublished a Larry Fafarman comment from the PT thread I have about Yecke.

Wikipedia provides links to a number of services that operate on provided IP addresses, like the ones logged in the vandalism.

Here's what RDNS had to say about the vandal's IP address:

Quote

Location: United States [City: Los Angeles, California]

Preparation:
The  reverse DNS entry for an IP is found by reversing the IP, adding it to "in-addr.arpa", and looking up the PTR record.
So, the reverse DNS entry for 71.102.70.27 is found by looking up the PTR record for
27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa.
All DNS requests start by asking the root servers, and they let us know what to do next.
See How Reverse DNS Lookups Work for more information.

How I am searching:
Asking e.root-servers.net for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      e.root-servers.net says to go to indigo.arin.net. (zone: 71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking indigo.arin.net. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  
      indigo.arin.net [192.31.80.32] says to go to NS4.VERIZON.NET. (zone: 102.71.in-addr.arpa.)
Asking NS4.VERIZON.NET. for 27.70.102.71.in-addr.arpa PTR record:  Reports pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [from 151.203.0.87]

Answer:
71.102.70.27 PTR record: pool-71-102-70-27.plspca.dsl-w.verizon.net. [TTL 86400s] [A=71.102.70.27]


A vandal with a deranged sense of humor from Los Angeles.

Anyway, I'm writing up an email to Verizon abuse asking for their assistance in tracking down their user for publishing false defamatory information about me. Who knows, maybe I can get the joker's internet service yanked, or take it even further.

I'm sure that Larry F. would be interested in this case, if only to make appreciative noises about what the vandal did.

hhhhmmmmmm.........Were there any "fart" noises in the background????

:p

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 03 2007,11:22   

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ July 03 2007,05:08)
   
Quote (Kristine @ July 01 2007,13:24)
Unfortunately, Wikipedia is so rife with vandalism that I corroborate every fact with other sources.

No more so than other respected sources like Encyclopedia Britannica, apparently.

Wikipedia also has the advantage of not costing $1695.  Plus the errors in your $1695 version don't get corrected in three minutes, they get corrected never.

I trust Britannica about as far as I can throw it. But instead of fact-checking every line, I look at the author's name, if any. There's one guy (can't remember his name right offhand) who is completely out of his mind.
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ July 03 2007,05:08)
It's foolish to rely on any one source for anything (except sex), of course.  I don't watch CNN (rarely) to find out what's really going on, I watch it to see what CNN says is going on--which I take with a huge grain of salt and a chaser of "they're a massive for-profit corporation with a vested financial interest in how they frame virtually every factoid they present."  At least with Wikipedia there's the transparency of being able to see who wrote and edited the articles, and what those peoples' other edits and viewpoints are.

Righto. Hell, I watch Faux News. Why drink diet soda? ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:21   

The story is developing, and as stories are wont to do, it is going weird. Over on PT, a commenter now claims that it was his computer that was used to vandalize my Wikipedia entry, but that he isn't responsible; kids did it!

Quote


Posted by Chris Torvik on July 4, 2007 10:13 AM (e)

Well, Wesley, Verizon was thorough. I received calls from them today, but I was in my office at the time. I want to let you know it was my computer publicly, before you go and defame me publicly.

But, it wasn’t me that wrote the Trudi Barlow blogs. I am a CPS worker; and the kids I was transporting to a foster home had access to my laptop in my car, while I was being accosted by a drug addict family - while I was making a routine stop trying to save thier kid from them.

I really like you guys and agree with you. I really, really do. I am not a religious person. It makes me sick to hear people say that “God” gave them their children, and purport that they have special rights to their kids when kids are merely biologically representative of their parents in some ways.

There are no god-given rights to birth parents! Every parent should earn their right to parent - and having irresponsible sex does not qualify you.

I feel my position in society is a type of evolution process in itself. I have just been proving this to myself - with your help.

Please, understand. I cannot report the children to you or Verizon because they are minors, and they are therefore protected by juvenile law in California. I would lose my job and get arrested if I did that without a court order. But rest assured, there is a silver lining, all three kids have appointments tomorrow to see a doctor, and my guess is that he will prescribe them Ridalin; no, most likely something stronger. So you won’t have to worry about their deviant behavior anymore.

I am sorry, I should have activated the lock code on my computer. I have the utmost respect for you. You give respect to my profession, inadvertently. :)


And my response there:

Quote

Posted by Wesley R. Elsberry on July 4, 2007 11:15 AM (e)

For the moment, color me skeptical. For Los Angeles, the editing on Wikipedia would have occurred in about a twenty minute window around 6:30 AM last Saturday. Kind of early morning for CPS to be at work, and on a weekend, too. I just called the number for Indio, CA CPS and got a canned message saying that their hours of operation are Monday through Friday, 8AM to 5PM. It seemed to me that the office was closed today, which also doesn’t match up with Torvik’s note.

The ‘net shows that there is a Christopher Torvik associated with CPS in Indio, California. Of course, any agent of CPS is likely to have a does of abuse hurled at them, and the ‘net shows that, too. Now, something a bit more interesting is the rant declaring that CPS is corrupt and inflates its importance via false charges of abuse, implemented through its workers. The rant is posted as from a “Chris Torvik”. Is that a forgery? If not, it seems inconsistent with the comment about “respect to the profession” here.

That’s all right. I’ll enlist the aid of the relevant authorities to sort out the true from the false. If it really was untouchable juveniles, I’m sure that they will let me know that through their own channels.


--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:26   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 04 2007,11:21)
The story is developing, and as stories are wont to do, it is going weird. Over on PT, a commenter now claims that it was his computer that was used to vandalize my Wikipedia entry, but that he isn't responsible; kids did it!

 
Quote


Posted by Chris Torvik on July 4, 2007 10:13 AM (e)

Well, Wesley, Verizon was thorough. I received calls from them today, but I was in my office at the time. I want to let you know it was my computer publicly, before you go and defame me publicly.

But, it wasn’t me that wrote the Trudi Barlow blogs. I am a CPS worker; and the kids I was transporting to a foster home had access to my laptop in my car, while I was being accosted by a drug addict family - while I was making a routine stop trying to save thier kid from them.

I really like you guys and agree with you. I really, really do. I am not a religious person. It makes me sick to hear people say that “God” gave them their children, and purport that they have special rights to their kids when kids are merely biologically representative of their parents in some ways.

There are no god-given rights to birth parents! Every parent should earn their right to parent - and having irresponsible sex does not qualify you.

I feel my position in society is a type of evolution process in itself. I have just been proving this to myself - with your help.

Please, understand. I cannot report the children to you or Verizon because they are minors, and they are therefore protected by juvenile law in California. I would lose my job and get arrested if I did that without a court order. But rest assured, there is a silver lining, all three kids have appointments tomorrow to see a doctor, and my guess is that he will prescribe them Ridalin; no, most likely something stronger. So you won’t have to worry about their deviant behavior anymore.

I am sorry, I should have activated the lock code on my computer. I have the utmost respect for you. You give respect to my profession, inadvertently. :)


And my response there:

 
Quote

Posted by Wesley R. Elsberry on July 4, 2007 11:15 AM (e)

For the moment, color me skeptical. For Los Angeles, the editing on Wikipedia would have occurred in about a twenty minute window around 6:30 AM last Saturday. Kind of early morning for CPS to be at work, and on a weekend, too. I just called the number for Indio, CA CPS and got a canned message saying that their hours of operation are Monday through Friday, 8AM to 5PM. It seemed to me that the office was closed today, which also doesn’t match up with Torvik’s note.

The ‘net shows that there is a Christopher Torvik associated with CPS in Indio, California. Of course, any agent of CPS is likely to have a does of abuse hurled at them, and the ‘net shows that, too. Now, something a bit more interesting is the rant declaring that CPS is corrupt and inflates its importance via false charges of abuse, implemented through its workers. The rant is posted as from a “Chris Torvik”. Is that a forgery? If not, it seems inconsistent with the comment about “respect to the profession” here.

That’s all right. I’ll enlist the aid of the relevant authorities to sort out the true from the false. If it really was untouchable juveniles, I’m sure that they will let me know that through their own channels.

wow

Did he really pull the "My little brother was on my computer" excuse?

That's the oldest cop out in internet history.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:26   

Yeesh. You mean this Chris Torvik???

Um, yeah. I find this quite implausible, too.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:28   

Oh, and there is this lump to swallow in the "juvenile delinquents did it" hypothesis... The original page read:

Quote

In 1993, he began his doctoral studies in wildlife and fisheries sciences at Texas A&M University with Professor William E. Evans as his major advisor. He collaborated with the U.S. Navy Marine Mammal Program in 1995 to investigate marine mammal hearing at depth. He periodically travelled to San Diego to continue collaboration on temporary threshold shift in marine mammals, until he was employed as a Behavioral Research Programmer for Science Applications International Corporation. He collaborated with Ted W. Cranford on a study of dolphin biosonar sound production in 1999. In 2001, he was awarded the Society for Marine Mammalogy's Fred Fairfield Award for Innovation in Marine Mammal Research. He completed his Ph.D. in 2003.



and the vandalized entry read:

Quote

He periodically travelled to San Diego to continue volunteering as a research subject [[temporary threshold shift]] in mammals, until he was employed by a Behavioral Research Programmer for studies in maleficient brain disordered and associative Behavioral Science Techniques.


"Maleficient" is quite the vocabulary word for a juvenile in the care of CPS to come up with at 6:30 AM on a Saturday while using a borrowed laptop in a car.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:39   

Chris is all over the internets:

 
Quote
The whole basis behind the Darwin theory is whack.


I guess he's one of these new hip creationists who can talk to the young people of today.

He's also quite the philosopher:

 
Quote
However, the main reason that most guys are gay is because someone taught them that it is okay to be gay; or it is because they had issues with thier mothers, or dominant older sisters - or a comination of the like.
Men become gay because it is easier to get laid. Bottom line. Most gay guys are horny as hell, and it feels really good to be fucked up the ass as you're climaxing.
Sorry, if the truth hurts, butt sometimes it feels really good, huh?


But this is his true magnum opus.

You seem to have quite a nut on your hands, here...


PS: This is weird.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:41   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 04 2007,11:21)
The story is developing, and as stories are wont to do, it is going weird. Over on PT, a commenter now claims that it was his computer that was used to vandalize my Wikipedia entry, but that he isn't responsible; kids did it!

Puh-leeeze.  He'd have been better off with the "it was just street theater!!" excuse.


Geez, fundies are SOOOOOOOOO goddamn stupid.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,11:54   

"Penny Barkley", "Chris Torvik", "Boris Yelkin", ["Trudy Barlow"], and "Norman" are all aliases used by person(s) commenting on the "Yecke in Her Own Words" thread on PT, all of those logged with Los Angeles Verizon IP addresses.

Yeah, what are the odds?

It appears that "Chris Torvik" began commenting to PT four days ago.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on July 04 2007,12:09

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:11   

OHHHH POO! Penny Barkley is an alias for some nutter? And there was I being all sincere and nice.

Well THAT won't happen again. Set humour to sarcastic mockery, Ensign.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:11   

Oh NO! Did I just make a Star Trek joke?

Right. I'm off to shoot myself. Goodbye cruel world etc.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:14   

Quote (Louis @ July 04 2007,12:11)
Oh NO! Did I just make a Star Trek joke?

See, that's why you can't get any chicks, Louis.



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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:17   

I'll never understand why people use their work computers to get into trouble on the internet. Guy I know was threatened by an ex's brother. Turns out the ex's brother made the threat from his workstation at Microsoft. Two days later, Microsoft had a job opening. Sounds like Chris Torvik might soon be looking for work too.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:19   

But but but I didn't MEAN to make it! It just slipped out! Oh please PLEASE someone sleep with me.....

....Oh hello dear, you're home early!

(Vague on topic reference for Wesley [tug forelock, tug forelock]: People posing as other people to defame and spam and troll the intawebz? Why whatever next. MP. Written to. Etc. Is it our old chum Legion? Or Larry? Or another mysterious willowy figure in the gloom?*)

Louis

* This does give credence to my theory that the internet is actually only used by three overweight truckers from Arkansas all of whom by weird coincidence are called Bubba. Those photos, porn sites, discussions etc: all Bubbas.

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Bye.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,12:23   

Quote (stevestory @ July 04 2007,12:17)
I'll never understand why people use their work computers to get into trouble on the internet.

Don't these people know anything :)

http://tor.eff.org/

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
khan



Posts: 1525
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,13:13   

Interesting that someone in his claimed position would write of 'Ridalin'.

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,13:23   

There's no knowing whether the commenter is "Chris Torvik", or somebody in the LA area who would like to get Torvik in trouble.

Yet.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,13:56   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 04 2007,19:23)
There's no knowing whether the commenter is "Chris Torvik", or somebody in the LA area who would like to get Torvik in trouble.

Yet.

Bolding mine.

Did I ever mention that I find you quite scary?

Louis

P.S. If you were an atheist I'd say you were part of the Evil Atheist Conspiracy. But you're not, and obviously it doesn't exist. At all. Put the very thought right out of your mind. You're scary enough without a conspiracy (Wesley Elsberry: Be Afraid, be very Afraid.)

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Bye.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,22:01   

Over on the PTBC list, I've gotten word that falsely saying that someone "contracted AIDS" is libel per se in California.

This should turn out to be interesting.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on July 04 2007,22:05

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,22:42   

That would be very amusing.  However, I suspect that establishing the troll's identity will be very difficult.

None the less, best wishes.

I let my license expire about 20 years ago, but if you get a phone number, or an address I might still have a few "chops."

Edited by Dr.GH on July 04 2007,22:44

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,23:08   

Dr. GH, I've dropped you an email. I don't have anything firm yet, but I'll be trying some more contacts tomorrow when people are back at work.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,23:24   

Gud lord, I might have to go back to work!

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 04 2007,23:57   

I just gave a careful read of the email from "CPS worker" Torvik.  Who ever they are, they are not a psych professional.  Too many stupid things they wrote to list tonight.  Worse even than lists of stupid things per creationist sentence.

They could be a PO, or some other cop, but even then they must not have much experience.  Messing with your Wiki page on company time with a company computer would be a big no no. Their Email would be more damning than messing with your Wiki page because of its unprofessional, incompetent attitude.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,01:03   

I wonder if the 'Maurice Miller' post at the Yecke thread is actually Torvik again...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,01:52   

It's from another Verizon IP address in the Los Angeles pool.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
deejay



Posts: 113
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,08:25   

From "Chris Torvik" on PT yesterday:

Quote
If evolution is completely true all down the line, then why aren’t there creatures that are currently representing the middle stages of the transformations from one species to another at the mammalian level?

To be honest, though, I have seen some really inner city people, when I visited my friend in Philly some 20 years ago, that really, really did like a lot like a monkey, or a missing link. I swear to God, but then looks CAN be deceiving.

I’m not trying to be racial or flippant. I saw it with my own eyes. Has anyone else had this culture-shock type of experience (for lack of a french word)? I know what I am talking about is very politically incorrect; but please, can someone expound on this?


My first thought here was to question the whole "never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence" axiom.  To create plausible deniability for his Wikipedia antics, would Chris have someone else post this comment at a time or by a means that would have demonstrably been impossible for him?  

Or maybe he just has a very serious problem.

  
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,08:35   

Quote (deejay @ July 05 2007,08:25)
From "Chris Torvik" on PT yesterday:

 
Quote
If evolution is completely true all down the line, then why aren’t there creatures that are currently representing the middle stages of the transformations from one species to another at the mammalian level?

To be honest, though, I have seen some really inner city people, when I visited my friend in Philly some 20 years ago, that really, really did like a lot like a monkey, or a missing link. I swear to God, but then looks CAN be deceiving.

I’m not trying to be racial or flippant. I saw it with my own eyes. Has anyone else had this culture-shock type of experience (for lack of a french word)? I know what I am talking about is very politically incorrect; but please, can someone expound on this?


My first thought here was to question the whole "never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence" axiom.  To create plausible deniability for his Wikipedia antics, would Chris have someone else post this comment at a time or by a means that would have demonstrably been impossible for him?  

Or maybe he just has a very serious problem.

Uh. Wow.

there are so many things in that quote that are so wrong....

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,08:44   

Well. Chris IS the one who pointed out that Darwinism is 'whack'.

If all the Chris Torvik quotes that have appeared so far really are one person, he's seriously unhinged.

Frankly, things like that inept 'Maurice Miller' post make me think it really is just one person.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,09:15   

The weak link in this whole chain is whether Verizon will release information about their user. Verizon could

1. Do nothing. This one is actually one of the more likely courses of action. ISPs are notorious for not handling complaints about users.

2. Terminate the user's service, but not reveal who they are to me. Again, if they choose not to "do nothing", this is a likely course of action. I have argued against this, but I don't know how much leverage I can bring to bear. It might require the threat of legal action to cause them to do more than this.

3. Reveal the identity of their user to law enforcement. They could turn in their user for violation of relevant computer crimes statutes to an authority without notifying me.

4. Reveal the identity of their user to me. This would be the most useful for me to be able to pursue legal recourse, but is, I think, the least likely outcome without some further interaction.

The odds are that the "Chris Torvik et alia" entity is simply trying to distract me from pursuing getting the data from Verizon.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Rev. BigDumbChimp



Posts: 185
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,09:22   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 05 2007,09:15)
The weak link in this whole chain is whether Verizon will release information about their user. Verizon could

1. Do nothing. This one is actually one of the more likely courses of action. ISPs are notorious for not handling complaints about users.

2. Terminate the user's service, but not reveal who they are to me. Again, if they choose not to "do nothing", this is a likely course of action. I have argued against this, but I don't know how much leverage I can bring to bear. It might require the threat of legal action to cause them to do more than this.

3. Reveal the identity of their user to law enforcement. They could turn in their user for violation of relevant computer crimes statutes to an authority without notifying me.

4. Reveal the identity of their user to me. This would be the most useful for me to be able to pursue legal recourse, but is, I think, the least likely outcome without some further interaction.

The odds are that the "Chris Torvik et alia" entity is simply trying to distract me from pursuing getting the data from Verizon.

Wes, in my experience in my job I frequently have to deal with spammers and attacks on our systems. I have reported a number of IP addresses to the ISPs involved and typically they will suspend the account, warn the abuser or the most frequent result is that they acknowledge my request and I never hear anything again.

I have not however needed to get the personal information of the person[s] involved so it is hard to say what Verizon will do. My best guess is they get a large number of requests for this type of information so there probably is a protocol in place. How you would find this out though could be the difficult part.


---edit----

fixed a few typos

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,09:53   

A friend of a friend works on the technical side at Verizon. I'll check to see whether I can get a direct line to someone involved in Verizon policy on this sort of thing.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
ToSeek



Posts: 33
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,09:54   

Quote (stevestory @ July 04 2007,12:17)
I'll never understand why people use their work computers to get into trouble on the internet. Guy I know was threatened by an ex's brother. Turns out the ex's brother made the threat from his workstation at Microsoft. Two days later, Microsoft had a job opening. Sounds like Chris Torvik might soon be looking for work too.

There was a guy I once worked with who was using a NASA computer to try to arrange, um, liaisons with underage women. The FBI was called in, executed a sting, and he ended up spending over a year in jail.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,10:44   

I just had a nice chat with the regional manager at the Indio, CA Child Protective Services. He was quite interested.

We'll see what comes of that. Bothering me at Wikipedia and PT is one thing, but messing with an official associated with law enforcement? Probably not the brightest move our troll has made.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,11:15   

Shouldn't Dr. Dr. Dembski have already turned this guy over to Homeland Security by now?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,11:49   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 05 2007,15:15)
The weak link in this whole chain is whether Verizon will release information about their user. Verizon could

1. Do nothing. This one is actually one of the more likely courses of action. ISPs are notorious for not handling complaints about users.

2. Terminate the user's service, but not reveal who they are to me. Again, if they choose not to "do nothing", this is a likely course of action. I have argued against this, but I don't know how much leverage I can bring to bear. It might require the threat of legal action to cause them to do more than this.

3. Reveal the identity of their user to law enforcement. They could turn in their user for violation of relevant computer crimes statutes to an authority without notifying me.

4. Reveal the identity of their user to me. This would be the most useful for me to be able to pursue legal recourse, but is, I think, the least likely outcome without some further interaction.

The odds are that the "Chris Torvik et alia" entity is simply trying to distract me from pursuing getting the data from Verizon.

Oh come on Wesley, legal action? You are not serious are you?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,12:09   

Quote

Oh come on Wesley, legal action? You are not serious are you?


I don't know yet how far I'll need to take this.

We do not want the situation to develop in the USA as it has in Turkey, where the antievolutionists have pretty much completely browbeaten pro-science academics there via a campaign of denigration, false accusations, and a not inconsiderable portion of personal violence.

We don't need to signal to the more extreme elements of antievolution that everything they do will be tolerated.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,13:45   

I think legal action is perfectly justified here.

Certainly more justified than the people Dembski reports to the DHS.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,13:46   

I ended up back home this AM.  It looks to me Wesley that you are doing everything appropriate, and as the injured party you are more persuasive than I would be.

Here is another indication that someone using the name "Chris Torvik" 8 months ago is a nutter who is very hostile toward social workers.  I would suggest they might be a former or current "client" of the child welfare system, who would like very much to embarrass someone named "Chris Torvic."  Hence, the harassment of Wesley, the racist posts to PT etc...

Just a thought.  I am not sure but this could be "identity theft."

I also just googled up this gem, "My children were removed from me seven years ago. The social worker, C. Chris Torvik, lied to keep my children from reuniting with me."  That was from 2004, so I would expect that there are many others.

Edited by Dr.GH on July 05 2007,14:16

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,21:01   

I had a phone call from Chris Torvik, the real CPS worker, a little while ago. We have a candidate for the role of impostor, someone who has been harassing Torvik for several years now.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 10127
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,21:08   

Apologies to Chris from people like me who just assumed it was him.

   
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 05 2007,21:09   

Wesley, perhaps you will be able to perform a service for the both of you.  Good Luck.

Sincerely,
Paul

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"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,14:27   

I'm in communication with IT investigators in Riverside County, California. They are taking this matter seriously, thanks to the vandal picking on an officer of the court there.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,14:44   

The best part is that I didn't have to do anything.  :D

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10756
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,14:46   

This is exciting!  :)

Good luck, Wes.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,14:58   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 06 2007,14:46)
This is exciting!  :)

Good luck, Wes.

Will The Professor finally get off the Island, despite the well-meaning yet flawed, best efforts of Gilligan?

Could this really be the long-sought-after, seldom found mythical "Happy Ending"?  Well, maybe except for the "perp".  Me and DaveScot LOVE this tough cop talk. :)

Congrats for cracking the case Dr.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,15:40   

Wow, poor Mr. Torvik is being harassed all right. I can't make heads or tails of this.    
Quote
reflecting the statement the CPS Agent Christopher Torvik, V, of the Indio office under Angela Zuspan who was informed of the lack of duty and responsibility as well as investigation and intentionally allowed Mr. Torvik, regardless of repeated calls from myself mother and the alleged allegations and declined to investigate my home, my medical records in Orange County, Ca
and blah, blah. :O Incomprehensible, but she provides her contact info in case that's helpful.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,15:47   

I didn't use the Explanatory Filter, did you?  Did anybody?

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4807
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,15:53   

Since the whole point is to identify the perpetrator, I used strictly ordinary design inferences.

For folks wishing to insist on rarefied design inferences without actually getting any work done, of course talking about identification is strictly verboten.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,16:10   

Quote (Kristine @ July 06 2007,15:40)
Wow, poor Mr. Torvik is being harassed all right. I can't make heads or tails of this.    
Quote
reflecting the statement the CPS Agent Christopher Torvik, V, of the Indio office under Angela Zuspan who was informed of the lack of duty and responsibility as well as investigation and intentionally allowed Mr. Torvik, regardless of repeated calls from myself mother and the alleged allegations and declined to investigate my home, my medical records in Orange County, Ca
and blah, blah. :O Incomprehensible, but she provides her contact info in case that's helpful.

People who are in rather desperate court situations come to assume that everyone is familiar with legal shorthand as they are.  It is similar to patients with chronic illnesses talking together.  

Women who are going to lose their children are desperate whether they are good, bad or "merely vaguely present" mothers. When their children are gone they are not even mothers.  This is true even if the children are better off in a court determined setting.

Personally, I don't think that any MSW should be in child protective services more than 10 years (or even less).  They burn-out and either follow "keep the family together" scripts, or "the parents are all swine- grab the kids" scripts.  I have seen both be deadly.  This is one of the main reasons I quit psychiatry- social workers ignoring my advice and children being killed (the father later executed, and the mother given a life sentence) following a "keep them together" script (with religious overtones).  There have also been suicides and murders from following the "grab the kids" script.

Maybe some sort of rotation between programs might work.  

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,20:01   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,15:53)
Since the whole point is to identify the perpetrator, I used strictly ordinary design inferences

But how much CSI do you have, Wes?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,21:06   

Quote

But how much CSI do you have, Wes?


Since Jeff Shallit and I have argued that CSI's description is incoherent, I'd say that I'm not likely to be able to answer that.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,21:09   

Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



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(Permalink) Posted: July 06 2007,22:35   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,20:09)
 
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Likewise, I think it's a very serious issue. And my point was, though somebody specific in CA immediately came to mind, the stalker/vandal could be a woman.

A couple people dogging Torvik have female names, and seem vindictive.

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Dr.GH



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,01:56   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with your sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Much worse than some pathetic person's cyber attacks against the social worker who took her children.  Wesley, you are just a minor side issue

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.

Edited by Dr.GH on July 07 2007,02:00

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,01:58   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,01:56)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with you sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Worse than some pathetic woman's random attacks.

The fact that he deserves no credibility might not matter.

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.

That is poor form from Ed. do you have a link?

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Dr.GH



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,02:40   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 07 2007,01:58)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,01:56)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
 
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with you sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Worse than some pathetic woman's random attacks.

The fact that he deserves no credibility might not matter.

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.

That is poor form from Ed. do you have a link?

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +athiest

or

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +alcoholic

Ed Brayton is a close friend of Wesley's. I am sorry.  He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.  

He, and Tim Sandefur, like many "former" Nazis post 1948, will insist they do not support all of the party line.

I am unimpressed. Sandefur's bosses have just scored a predictable victory favoring  racial segregation under the protection of the far-right dominated Supreme Court.

If creationism ever gets back to the SCUS, nobody should expect a repeat of 1987.  The same policies promoted by Brayton and Sandefur are in direct opposition of the 1987 Court.  Dover will be a wisp. The religious right and their "libertarian" tools will eliminate Roe v Wade as soon as it can be evaporated.  These people are as big, if not bigger, enemies of modern liberal society as Behe, Dembski, Johnson, Ham or Hovind.  Add, Bush, Cheney, Libby, Gonzales and the rest of the neofascists.

We are doomed.

I hope I am wrong.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Dr.GH



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Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,03:37   

Quote
Gary's real problem is with anyone calling themselves a libertarian. Now, if someone wants to disagree with libertarian views, I've got no problem with that; I disagree with some of them myself. But when the very mention of the word sends you into fits of apoplectic and irrational rage, as it does to Gary, something's gone haywire. Actually, that's Gary's secondary problem. His real problem is that he's a drunk, which only makes his fanatical hatred of all things religious and non-liberal that much more unstable and likely to result in him making an ass of himself in public. It also appears to make him lie rather badly:


Ed in full bray.  Actually worse than the "attack" against Wesley.

There is an old phrase, "You are known by your enemies."  In that case I am pleased, I can count not only Ed Brayton, but Jon Sarfati, Carl Weiland, and Jonathan Wells as enemies.

Ed is in his natural clade.

Edited by Dr.GH on July 07 2007,03:51

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,09:00   

Here is a direct link to the full post which Dr.GH quotes above.

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2006/06/gary_hurds_lies.php



Dr.GH - please document and support these claims, or retract them.  

Quote
He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.


--------------
Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,09:26   

Quote

Wesley, you are just a minor side issue


True enough. I hope I haven't claimed more somewhere.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,10:50   

I sure am glad I left PT long ago.

It's long outlived its usefulness.


(sigh)

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www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,13:04   

Is it safe to assume that 'Gene McCormick' is yet another incarnation of our same stalker troll?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,13:38   

If forced to make a bet now, yes, I'd say it is the same person. The constant items to note are 1) Chris Torvik is hated and 2) they want me to stop digging into the matter.

It looks like the vandal wants me to believe that the false claims made about me were simply to get me to go after Chris Torvik. Instead, I'm insisting that the actual libelous vandal be held accountable. That's unfair on my part, I guess.

There were another several comments entered over on PT last night that were getting shriller and nastier. I unpublished them. The vandal really disliked that, and some of the entries were to try to scare me with the notion that because I enforce topicality, that I'll be getting a bunch of defamation lawsuits aimed in my direction. I think I tossed a couple of the earlier ones in that vein to the BW.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
someotherguy



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(Permalink) Posted: July 07 2007,14:26   

Quote (PennyBright @ July 07 2007,09:00)
Dr.GH - please document and support these claims, or retract them.  

 
Quote
He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.

I read Ed's blog rather. . .err. . .religiously, and I don't recall seeing him support any of the positions that Dr GH claims he does.  I'll second the request (possibly in another thread so as not to derail this one any further) for evidence supporting Dr GH's claims.

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Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,15:19   

Wes, did you see this at the Larry thread at Brayton's blog?

 
Quote
Oh, as a side note - Larry mentioned that his new favorite pseudonym is Chris Torvik. Just a heads up for Ed and the rest of the PT crew.

Posted by: W. Kevin Vicklund | July 12, 2007 01:45 PM


Larry could be lying, but since Larry IS in LA...

PS: Larry is apparently waging a one-loon guerilla war against Wikipedia, in connection with their Yecke article.

He's looking like a better candidate all the time...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Rev. BigDumbChimp



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(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,15:28   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,02:40)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 07 2007,01:58)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,01:56)
 
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ July 06 2007,21:09)
   
Quote

The cyber harassment of Wes, and Torvik is a minor issue compared to life or death.  It needs to be stopped without being glorified into a major crime.


Well, sure, go ahead and put it into perspective.

If asked which I'd rather have get identified and have a go-round with our legal system, the guy who burglarized my van last year or the current cyber-libeler, I'd go for the cyber-libeler.

Ya Sure Ya Betcha.  The person who trashed your van didn't mess with you sense of identity.  Nor are they going to be found.

Ed Brayton has posted that he knows I am an atheist and an alcoholic, both accusations are false and potentially damaging to me professionally.  Worse than some pathetic woman's random attacks.

The fact that he deserves no credibility might not matter.

Maybe I should follow Wesley's lead here and try to have Ed Brayton arrested.

That is poor form from Ed. do you have a link?

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +athiest

or

Google +Hurd +"Ed Brayton" +alcoholic

Ed Brayton is a close friend of Wesley's. I am sorry.  He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.  

He, and Tim Sandefur, like many "former" Nazis post 1948, will insist they do not support all of the party line.

I am unimpressed. Sandefur's bosses have just scored a predictable victory favoring  racial segregation under the protection of the far-right dominated Supreme Court.

If creationism ever gets back to the SCUS, nobody should expect a repeat of 1987.  The same policies promoted by Brayton and Sandefur are in direct opposition of the 1987 Court.  Dover will be a wisp. The religious right and their "libertarian" tools will eliminate Roe v Wade as soon as it can be evaporated.  These people are as big, if not bigger, enemies of modern liberal society as Behe, Dembski, Johnson, Ham or Hovind.  Add, Bush, Cheney, Libby, Gonzales and the rest of the neofascists.

We are doomed.

I hope I am wrong.

Ding! Godwin's law reached.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2113
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,18:40   



I am busy right now.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,21:30   

Busy must be going around.  FtK had a bad case of it.

Dr.GH,  please document and support these claims or retract them.
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 07 2007,02:40)
Ed Brayton is a close friend of Wesley's. I am sorry.  He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.


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Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
Dr.GH



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Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,22:07   

I am snacking on the smoked remains of those albacore.  Look up the Cato Institute, the American Enterprise Institute, and the Pacific Legal Foundation.  Brayton and Sandefur are vocal supporters.  Sandefur works for the PLF which had a big victory resegregating public schools this month.  

Then read;

Gore, Al
2007 Assault on Reason

Phillips, Kevin
2006  American Theocracy New York: Viking Press

Mooney, Chris
2005  The Republican War on Science New York: Basic Press

Got to go.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 12 2007,22:29   

Smoked albacore sounds delicious.

Referring me to books that are not written by Ed Brayton as evidence of his beliefs, however, is nonsense, unless you are going to offer evidence that he has read and agrees with these books.

Referring me to various special interest groups is also nonsense, unless are you going to offer evidence that Mr. Brayton is a member of these groups.

The groups and books you reference may qualify as evidence that there are people who believe and support the various positions you attribute to Mr. Brayton.

None of it, however,  is evidence that such positions are held by Mr. Brayton.   My original request stands.

Wesley,  would you prefer that this be moved to a different thread?

--------------
Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
Stephen Elliott



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(Permalink) Posted: July 13 2007,13:18   

Quote (someotherguy @ July 07 2007,14:26)
 
Quote (PennyBright @ July 07 2007,09:00)
Dr.GH - please document and support these claims, or retract them.  

     
Quote
He is also a avid supporter of efforts to eliminate public education, unions, environmental protection and antipollution laws, and civil rights laws regarding equal access to jobs, and public facilities- schools, parks, and restrooms.

I read Ed's blog rather. . .err. . .religiously, and I don't recall seeing him support any of the positions that Dr GH claims he does.  I'll second the request (possibly in another thread so as not to derail this one any further) for evidence supporting Dr GH's claims.

I also followed the links and consider Dr.GH's claims against Ed as unsuported.

  
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